20/20 Signs They Were Cheating

gym cheater

Did you see signs of cheating before D-Day? Furtive cell phone shenanigans? Odd smells? Portents and omens?

To be a chump is to be unknowing. (And that’s as it should be — trusting your partner is natural.) Of course, cheaters are doing everything they can to conceal their nefarious double lives, and gaslighting you when confronted with something “off.”

If you see the signs now, don’t beat yourself up. No one comes equipped with a wingnut decoder ring.

Part of the point of this blog is to reveal the manipulations so others don’t fall into the same tiger pit.

It’s really beyond most people’s ken to imagine that predators exist, or that double lives are a thing.

But knowledge is power. So your Friday Challenge is to tell CN what were the signs? What was off then that makes sense now?

Warn the newbies.

***

This is an updated post. Good to have all the intel in one place!

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glutenfreekChump
glutenfreekChump
2 years ago

he started taking all calls in the other room, behind closed doors. he got a second phone. he suddenly started getting waxed (had never been even remotely interested in this prior). he was travelling “for work” more than he was at home. he smelt different (was repulsive to me). he started sleeping in the room downstairs. there are many more but they were such big clues that went straight over my head at the time.

DOCTOR's1stWife&3Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&3Kids
2 years ago

This topic is among the most depressing triggers for me.

That is Not a criticism, but an admission that the times I feel at my worst, post divoce trauma, are when I face palm myself for all the red flags I just did not allow into my brain.

How could I be the same woman who put up with so much glaringly shitty behavior AND somehow love the DOCTOR??

I know, I know, I loved who he once was or seemed to be or who I hoped he was.

Anyhow, just checking in and now I’ll go read an archive on Chumps taking back our power and fixing our pickers.

Mehitable
Mehitable
3 months ago

For Cheater 1 I not only saw the red flags….it was like a Communist Victory Parade in retrospective, I just ignored them because I was so stupid and needy and just wanted to hang on to him. He was like a drug for me. He was a salesman and his biggest product was HIM. I began to realize that he was not only cheating on me overseas trips (mutual fiends told me) but here too and I figured that out from seeing his interactions with certain women at parties, etc. I still stayed, I think my self esteem was very low and I just thought he was the best I could do. Thankfully we had no children but I feel like he robbed so many years from me. Anyway, he had a planned escape and just took off one day without warning or discussion to another state with another woman whose family had a lot of money. As far as I know they’re still together, decades later, so she has a stronger stomach than even I did. But I’ve heard he’s had serious health problems over the years so I probably dodged a lot. Never underestimate the power of denial and just being so absorbed by someone. For me it really was like a drug. It took me years to get over him and I swear I can still call up his scent, which amazes me. Don’t beat up on yourself for being the kind of person who can love and trust so deeply, beat up on him for being the kind of person who doesn’t value that. I came to see how shallow he was and how manipulative but it was a very destructive lesson.

2xchump
2xchump
3 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

We all hold hands on this one. Love us blind Even in long term relationships. My first cheater got away with more. My second cheater didn’t take me as long. But first timers and first marriages are the hardest to let go of maybe. I see you are kind to yourself. That is the way to go.

Mehitable
Mehitable
3 months ago
Reply to  2xchump

That’s very true about the 2nd (and hopefully last) – I would never put up with anything remotely like that, and I know the signs now, of course. But the first time….it’s just unbelievable that someone lives like this. But I guess he was the kind of guy women actively chased and he never said no, LOLOL. I wish I’d never met him, but maybe there would have been another one even worse. I just had bad judgment at that time and as I say, very low self esteem and he was a big ole bag of catnip. Thank God we change even if they don’t!

Mehitable
Mehitable
3 months ago
Reply to  2xchump

Thank you 2xchump. I am…well….what would the word be….embarrassed? that I put up with this for so long, but if there’s anyone that needs to be forgiven, it’s me, LOL. I think we all need to preach the gospel of CL because so many younger spouses waste so much time trying to save marriages and relationships that are just never gonna work out. It’s usually much better to cut and run if you can – but you have to recognize the abuse first!

2xchump
2xchump
3 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Reading all these posts really help me see I am not alone. The stories are similar. We tried, we didn’t give up. Even with 2 cheaters i was still trusting until there was no question in my mind. Divorce is horrific, costly and it takes a lot of courage against the wall of family, Switzerland friends and family, kids, step families. It is a river of sewage meeting fresh water. It is incomprehensible. It takes take for a caring loving person to point the canons in the right direction and not do self blame and self harm. It Just.takes time bail out of sinking ship. Whatever our story is, left quickly, left over years, left 1 -2- 3 x, left pregnant, elderly, left with special needs kids,left for slime balls or PHDs…whatever the story. We are all mighty. I raise my glass to us!

thrive
thrive
3 months ago

Sorry and glad you are here. Hugs!

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago

“I know, I know, I loved who he once was or seemed to be or who I hoped he was.”

So true. It took me a long time to separate the person in my mind from who he really was.

He had 21 years with a spouse who loved him and was loyal to him, I didn’t.

Marathon Chump
Marathon Chump
2 years ago

Abusers take your strongest and best attributes–like your ability to trust and love and attach– and weaponize them against you. They have been practicing how to make their deception effective since they learned to talk. So, please, do forgive yourself, Doctor’s 1st Wife, for not initially seeing through him. Cyber-hugs!

Nita
Nita
2 years ago

Yeah, Dr’s 1st wife, I look at missing the red flags as testament that you are such an amazing and kind person that this kind of treachery never occurred to you. You didn’t see them because you were loving him—projecting onto him the exquisitely lovely and honorable values that YOU possess.

Tiggerly
Tiggerly
2 years ago

((Hugs)) As CL says, it’s emotional abuse — and it’s also insidious. And you are not wired that way.

Rantings of the ‘Chumped’!!
Rantings of the ‘Chumped’!!
2 years ago

The signs of a double-life (that become visible in hindsight).

Not wanting to be seen with you in public in your hometown, otherwise, all over me and affectionate when travelling. ( I thought he just didn’t like shopping etc like his dad).

Pretending not to see the kids and I in the car next to him or opposite him when in local traffic, even with my kids waving frantically, calling out ‘Dad’, asking me ‘why can’t he see us?! This happened more than once. I now know we may have unwittingly caught him coming back from his sex-worker daytime hook-up??

Suggesting and implying ‘I’m the crazy wife’ to work colleagues and friends.

Having a lot of hobbies even though he was busy running a business and always with us otherwise. Playing an instrument in a brass band, Archery, hunting, herpatology club(snakes lol), and self-defence (karate) where he had way too much interest in a 20 year old and her mother. Being obsessive about theses hobbies as a way to cover his extracurricular activities.
Not the first time, he was also friends with a lady and her young adult daughter (from church) when our first two kids were toddlers. Why was I so oblivious? I thought it was him being kind lol ( again, like his Dad use to do, travelling with work for the church and being Bishop). His dad has a lot of single women he would ‘check up on in his travels’ No one suspected a thing with him to this day. The only time anyone was ever suspected as far as I know, was my sister-in-law asking her Mum why her Dad’s photo was the screensaver of a single lady they visited after he passed away. ??
I think back and my husband would have some connection with ‘the Mum’, being ‘helpful’ as a way of getting to the daughter.
I was so flat out with the kids because he never helped me, not even fir a 10 min nap, I was too exhausted to see what he was up to.

It just didn’t occur to me, we were religious, he was in the Bishopric, I thought he was taking care of the single sisters. Hmm hmm. Yeah. In more ways than one.
Why did I not question why nearly all his friends were females before we got married?
He had a couple of decent make friends, that disarmed me. His high/school buddy was a total sleaze thigh, I remember thinking how are they friends?!
He would jump at the chance to disappear whenever I was sick and he knew I’d be occupied and not going anywhere. He would urgently have to go visit someone or something of interest.
He would emotionally disappear after being so attentive and telling me everything I wanted to hear. He has an answer for everything. The one time I told an older lady friend at church I was worried, she said don’t be ridiculous, he was not cheating and he never would.
I felt like I was crazy! No one ever said anything. Looking back, it felt like I was the only one who didn’t get the memo, while everyone tried to hide the memo or deny it even existed.

Once he escalated to sex-workers and higher $$$ escorts, he started losing weight drastically, going to the gym, keeping the car pristine, hiding any evidence he had a family.
So many of his clients, even when I was working with him every day if the week, were shocked to find out he was married! And had 3 kids! What?!
The list goes on,
The mood swings, excitement, over the top positivity, love bombing me, then withdrawing, hiding out, depressed, not wanting to talk at all, pretending to be asleep on multiple occasions, especially when driving on long trips so I couldn’t corner him, as the kids told me after D/ Day that Dad thought I was on to him. I wasn’t, I had a couple of concerns, but omg I had no idea essentially.
He controlled money that he hid from me. He let me have access to other money just for me, I didn’t have to answer to him for, to put me off the scent. Again it was confusing, sometimes being controlling, other times generous.

He would often dangle the carrot, talking about all our grand plans fir the future, paying the mortgage of early, travel plans overseas, etc etc, it was all ways he thought he could keep me there, working toward ‘our future’. It was always ‘in the future’.
I planned and hosted a huge 40th party for him, and I still didn’t get it when he wouldn’t even stand next to me in front of all his colleagues and clients, church friends, my family, he made sure his family couldn’t attend. I felt so awkward and embarrassed as I was telling him to come over to the cake and blow the candles out, he just stood there looking at me and wouldn’t move. He never said thank you to me or acknowledged me when I gave a speech saying he wash my best friend and wishing him well.
When he won the business awards, he did the same, left me walking up to the stage by myself, while he raced ahead, grabbed the award and stood at the opposite end of the stage with his female practice manager. One attendee sitting with us was again shocked to find out I was the wife.
This happened two years in a row, the next time he stood at the opposite end of the stage again with all our staff in between, as far away as possible. I worked in the business with him, worked 10 hour days too, gave up my degree twice as he asked me to help him.

It’s like one of those movies you would watch on t.v. He was seeing prostitutes right under my nose, ducking out from work to go see the ‘chiropractor’, ‘dentist’, ‘doctor’, ‘ physic’, podiatrist etc I remember thinking, gee, he really looks after his health. They were the cover. He would actually go, bury not just to them.
Anyway, we had another Veterinarian start working with us, he was just as bad. We all knew it. Cheating, lying, predatory, but highly intelligent, charming as all, the clients loved him, YET, he was always gaslighting his fiancé who was beautiful, smart, talented, and who would question him, even in front of us at times, and we explain his way out of it, with her either feeling crazy, or he’d love bomb her so it just seemed ridiculous.
My husband and him, their ability to make lies seem like truth was just limitless. They had ways of making us feel like we are stepping into their territory at times, and we weren’t welcome, then confuse us by making a point of showing the opposite when it suited them, acting all chummy like we couldn’t be any closer. Just crazy making!
Not to mention the times he shit me down, made the other woman look mental, just stared into space when confronted. The level of control and lack of emotion, but like a psychopath but close! Probably more of a sociopath/narcissist. I don’t think he a slept a good nights sleep in 17 years of being married, any wonder, with that many lies.
Sorry this is so long, but it barely touches the surface of the lengths he went to, to cheat and sleep with hundreds of women, and yet I still was blindsided!
I still after 23 years, still find it incomprehensible as did plenty of people that know him. So many of us scratching our heads.
Too many things that are obvious in hindsight, his distractedness, preoccupation and motivation, i and others thought he was just a high achiever, go getter etc. I had no idea he was a go-getter for a pussy smorgasbord.
He even abandoned me and our 6 mth old first child to ‘go ahead’ of me to our new place when he got a new job in another city, as his work required he get there early. I bought it! Now I look back and see, another opportunity for freedom to chase women.
He never wanted to leave me, or discouraged me from having our 3rd baby for example, he would encourage me and show me love in word, but not in deed. He counted on the fact I didn’t feel I deserved any better, especially as he confused me with smooth talk and romantic gestures and tokens. No depth to shy of it!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
3 months ago

The one thing I keep thinking when reading these literally epic stories of multi-leveled betrayals is that, you know, most of these very busy cheaters are probably average looking and, like most provincial types, aging in a rather awkward provincial way. Which is cute in someone with integrity but not so much in those who lack it. So if we’re not talking about, say, Brad Pitt or Denzel Washington in their primes, what kind of garbage are they actually scoring with? A cheater putting up a nice guy act can probably find a lovely, wholesome spouse. But who’s going to furtively ho-bang some average Joe other than melted Barbies and musty pill junkies?

Marathon Chump
Marathon Chump
2 years ago

My cheater was able to fool me AND all my friends, appearing very loving and committed.
But, he seemed to have no friends of his own, just colleagues. That would be a bad sign even if he had not been a cheater, but I ignored it. He also would never introduce me to his colleagues, saying that he already worked ten hour days with them (that part was true, he worked from 10am til at least 9pm) But, he also did not introduce me even when we ran into one once when on a walk. And at restaurants he would first always look around before going in, to make sure there were no co-workers. I did not put two and two together even though past partners had been proud to introduce me to their friends. I thought he was just very private and a bit burned out on the office social scene. Also, he generally behaved as if he were deeply in love, yet never said he loved me. And, when he went on a trip early in our relationship he did not call or text or email at all. I had a cold sick anxious feeling about it, but told myself that we had not made an agreement yet about expectations regarding communication on trips. He returned, made stupid excuses about supposedly forgetting his phone charger, the pace of work, the different time zones–but actually he was with her and their colleagues and didn’t want anyone to know I existed. I told him I needed him to call or text every other day next time, he refused saying his conferences required him to work from eyes open til sleep, and he was just too tired to call after that. Actually he was just afraid she would see him texting me.
Finally, my gut feeling was always just a little uneasy, like I was always on audition, even when we had lived together for months. My gut knew I was being forced to pick-me dance, even if my head did not.
I notice that though he is now married to her, she is not shown on his facebook page and his relationship status is blank. So I think he is running around on her also now.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
3 months ago
Reply to  Marathon Chump

Reactive attachment disorder for $100, Alex. And Madonna/whore complex for $20.

Why oh why don’t sick f*cks wear signs on their foreheads? The world would be a better place.

Mehitable
Mehitable
3 months ago
Reply to  Marathon Chump

They don’t stop being themselves just because they changed the furniture. He’s still the same dog he ever was. I think at some point we all find out but some people are shallow enough to live like this forever and others never find their self respect. This is the guy he’ll always be, thank God you don’t have to deal with it anymore. It’s crazy making.

GrandmaChump
GrandmaChump
3 months ago
Reply to  Marathon Chump

Oh, please don’t go checking his facebook page ever again! No contact, no contact, no contact, not even “just peeking in hopes of evidence of karma.”
fwiw, I stayed in a bad marriage for 7 years after I was done; after I had figured out that his “I love you” was better translated, “I love sex.”

After a while I was able to return “I loved you” each time. Don’t think he ever noticed, but it helped me survive. I loved him, he loved sex. All the angles of his dodecahedron were labeled sex; I finally got that I wasn’t special, and I’m not “better than.” Exercise in humility; pride has always been the worst part of my nature. Well, or trust?

I don’t recommend staying in a cadaverous marriage, but I thought then and still think that it was the best path of FOR ME of a host of sad options. By the time I felt free to leave the marriage (could not stay one more minute) I had lost my natural smile. It was great when, years later, one day I realized my mouth muscles were protesting because I had been smiling unaware for some time.

Joy returns, but only after a sustained period of no contact, no contact, no contact! And I can think now ruefully of the good times with the late, great Mr. Happy.

It’s Over
It’s Over
2 years ago

Rantings, WOW. My STBXH and yours did so much of the same stuff. The other day I was looking at a list that compare a sociopath to a psychopath. My STBX checked basically all the boxes for the psychopath and only one in the sociopath column. Really creepy. Can’t believe how many things we experienced the same. Only our husbands had different careers and a different LONG list of hobbies.

IdiotNoMore
IdiotNoMore
2 years ago

Is anyone familiar with the series Dexter? I keep thinking of this as I hear these stories…

Rantings of the ‘Chumped’
Rantings of the ‘Chumped’
2 years ago
Reply to  IdiotNoMore

Omg yes! Dexter. It was scary to see the similarities in his lack of emotion for example. What about Don Draper in Madmen. Even my young adult kids call their Dad Don Draper and laugh. My STBX still won’t watch it.

chumpedchange
chumpedchange
2 years ago

Thankyou Rantings. I have such a hard time putting so much confusion and insanity into words that it helps a LOT when someone else can go into detail. Its almost impossible to make a proper narrative out of the deviousness. So many contortions and layers of manipulation. Even 8 years out my brain seems to short circuit when i try to unravel The Skein.

Rantings of the ‘Chumped’
Rantings of the ‘Chumped’
2 years ago
Reply to  chumpedchange

I hear you! The layers of abuse.
For a long time one of my fears at leaving was being able to see it for what it is. I couldn’t face the fact I that loved someone so much who could mistreat me so! Trying to explain and describe it all is mind boggling. Wishing you well and all the best!

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  chumpedchange

Short circuit! That’s exactly how it feels. Or an impossible, unsolvable fever nightmare. Composing a coherent narrative feels urgent at times, yet it’s a Sisyphean task. I think that’s why it’s such a relief to come here.

ChumpedOut
ChumpedOut
2 years ago

You went through the most! It makes me sick to my stomach. These a**holes all use the same textbook and the sad part is that they think nothing of us at all. It blows my mind how cheaters switch on and off with lies. But I’m glad we’re all here on the other side instead of fighting to make it work with a narcissist who will never see our worth or reciprocate our love.

My signs were the same. Never wanting to be seen with me in public, hiding the phone away and not letting me near it, going out with his phone off and coming back late saying he was at the ‘casino’ or with friends, mood swings, picking fights over nothing, verbal abuse, the list is endless over the decade we were together. And now one year post divorce he still behaves as if he was a genuinely good person who made some mistakes along the way like creating a whole human being with his mistress during our marriage.

It warms my heart that all of us can say we got out! We deserve nothing but happiness and cheater-free futures! My heart bleeds for those still stuck in those abusive relationships. I wish we could rescue all of them.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
2 years ago

Unfortunately we all can relate to some, if not many, things that you went through. I’m so glad you’re no longer dealing with him.

LezChump
LezChump
2 years ago

Dear Rantings,
I hear you loud and clear on the “love in word, and not in deed.” When you’re adulting, dealing with kids and living life, it’s easy to be on autopilot, and most rational decisions are obvious. So, it’s often hard to tell that you’re being devalued unless there’s a major life decision, or clear evidence of boundary violations.

My STBX was also decent with words, but not deeds. And I don’t think she was lying when she said she loved me. She just had a wildly different definition of love, as an amorphous *feeling* that one might hold for multiple people. My definition of love begins with respect, mutual support, and putting your partner first – something that must be shown in deeds more than just words. As CL rightly says, we need to look to what they DO, not just what they SAY. All best to you, Rantings, and I’m glad that we’re free of our fuckwits!

Rantings of the ‘Chumped’
Rantings of the ‘Chumped’
2 years ago
Reply to  LezChump

Thank you LezChump for your kindness.
Who knew there are different definitions of love when it comes to marriage and commitment. I have been schooled!
Wishing you lots of happiness and joy in your ‘fuckwit’ free journey.

ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
2 years ago
Reply to  LezChump

So much yes to “love begins with respect, mutual support and putting your partner first”

Mitz
Mitz
2 years ago

A lot of them do not want to split assets with their spouse, and a big part of the thrill is having a spouse at home to fool.

They string everyone along and get a charge out of it. Pathetic excuses for human beings.

Zero character, flim flam men, they are hard core cons.

Ruby Gained A Life
Ruby Gained A Life
3 months ago
Reply to  Mitz

My first husband got into another “relationship” immediately after I threw him out. At one point, I asked him if he wanted to pursue other women, why get into a relationship at all? He said it wasn’t any fun if he wasn’t cheating on someone. WOW!

GoodnGone
GoodnGone
2 years ago
Reply to  Mitz

Absolutely ! Conning those who trust and believe is not so tough to do! The deception and betrayal is profound. Mine manipulated me to sign off on the joint checking account , he was on his phone constantly or the bathroom even when we traveled. It was on the second cheat , warning signs and him grabbing my neck during sex that I opted for divorce after a 20 yr marriage . We went through many trials and I stood by his want to change employment .He makes big money while I survive on $840 a month SSD. Good attorneys cost. I’m still better off away from a deceptive liar!

Rantings of the ‘chumped’
Rantings of the ‘chumped’
2 years ago

Sorry for the typos. Auto correct! I hope you can decipher it.

GiveTimeTime
GiveTimeTime
2 years ago

He smelled different. Hmmmm

I’ll just come out and say it. One night, once the alarm in my gut had been ringing nonstop, we were in bed. I remember giving him a BJ and thinking “Am I crazy or does his dick smell/taste like pussy?” I just decided I was crazy.

I wasn’t crazy.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I have a feeling I’m not the only one here who’s experienced this.

superchump
superchump
3 months ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

I remember kissing him and his mouth tasting like well…pussy. I pulled back and tried to push the thought out of my mind. “There’s no way!” I thought….sigh.

DesireableandCourageous
DesireableandCourageous
1 year ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

You are not crazy. On our one day of sex per month, he was often limp, so I tried a BJ and I remember thinking “So how hard do I really need to work for THIS?!?” And I knew. But I should have known when sex dwindled to once per month.

El Chumperino
El Chumperino
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

She tasted like a rubber, so yeah.

Newchump101
Newchump101
1 year ago
Reply to  El Chumperino

I just read this comment and you are 100% right. I know my Wife. I know her pheromones, her taste, her smell…she never used to come home after a longer day at work and shower right away. Then she started doing that. The last time I went down on her (which I loved doing because it pleased her and got me very hard, sorry TMI) even after her afterwork shower, she tasted different. Like rubber. Daaaamn.

Golfgrrl
Golfgrrl
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

Nope. Remember kissing him hello and thinking the same thing. But quickly pushing it away, because who would do that?!

And his family was visiting from out of town and staying with us.

Such a chump!

Sydney Chump
Sydney Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

Am I crazy or does his dick smell/taste like pussy?” I just decided I was crazy.

That’s disgusting. He didn’t even wash when he got home?? Totally sick. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I just hope you didn’t catch anything

Hope49
Hope49
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

And just think what delight he got out of you giving him a BJ knowing and thinking about his rendez-vous with the OW, right? Sick, twisted fuckwit…???? So pisses ya off just thinking about their narc thrills.

Forrest Chump
Forrest Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

The graphic nasty behavior is on the part of the cheater. My cheater wife played the high and mighty “you are disgusting” card post-D-day if I asked her how often our marital sex occurred soon after her afternoon fuck sessions with her equally self-absorbed narcissist friend. ‘How dare you’, was often a response, I was the disgusting troll besmirching her true heavenly love.

I was physically disgusted about bathing my dick, face, and tongue in this idiot’s fluids. Not an unreasonable question. There is an ick factor along with wondering if that kind of secondary intimate contact might make me as much as stupid as he is. This is not to mention the obvious STD fears.

Also, pre-D-day, I kept getting these weird, minor general irritations and when we fucked, being inside my ex actually felt bad.

More subject matter for chumps to trust their instincts: both emotional AND biological. I guess sometimes things literally smell wrong.

OK, that’s my entry for a potential “Chump Lady After Dark” discussion board.

Anna55
Anna55
2 years ago
Reply to  Forrest Chump

Forrest Chump

After talking to my doctor/ she knew all the facts and insisted on the full panel STD’s
She said that often irritation or “ infection “
( without any reasonable cause) is due to change in bacterial floor… u know, if it’s just two of you, your body adjusts to each other but if there is more people… well, you know

Disgusting to think about it. Your w had a friend… my h was fucking random hookers right and left ????

Her Blondeness
Her Blondeness
2 years ago
Reply to  Forrest Chump

Let me add one more incident to the ick factor: I got a series of yeast infections, which I had never had before and haven’t had after I stopped sleeping with Cheater #1. More proof that C#1 was having unprotected sex.
During the discard, when confronted and I had the full STD panel (while pregnant, no less), his smug reply was “They’re clean people.”
Yeah, right, buddy. Does that include the ex-con drug addict? How about the bar fly pot head? Or the band singer that fancied herself the next Janis Joplin (heroin and all)?

Eww. I count myself lucky that I didn’t have any long term STDs.

Geode
Geode
2 years ago
Reply to  Her Blondeness

I got the same “they’re clean” in reference to cheap Craig’s List prostitutes. Umm, how would he know?

GrandmaChump
GrandmaChump
3 months ago
Reply to  Geode

Easy, Geode! The prossies attest to being “clean.” And they are: clean out of truth.

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

You are not alone! Same exact thing. I even told him I’m not doing this again, and never did.
He’d only been out to dinner with Bill???? I wasn’t aware Bill had a pu$$y.
On that same note around that time he told me how good I smelled, made me wonder what kind of women he’d been with?! I should have smelled familiar, not comment worthy if i was the only one, except that he’s a cheater.

Whitecoatburnout
Whitecoatburnout
2 years ago
Reply to  Longtime Chump

I stopped using my favorite bath soap, because when I washed my genitals the suds smelled offensive and I thought the manufacturer had changed the formula for the soap. Shortly thereafter, positive STD found on my annual pap smear. I miss the soap more than I miss the ex.

thrive
thrive
3 months ago

😂

Ella
Ella
2 years ago
Reply to  Longtime Chump

Well, at least he complimented you????
Mine- on the other side was complaining about my smell ( nothing wrong with it for the most of the time but he made me so self conscious- I cringe every time I think about it) and from time to time I was getting some irritation change if the way I smelled. My gynecologist and I were scratching our heads and couldn’t figure out what was causing it.
I know now- 10000 cheap hookers in and out

Let me just say- I’m healthy as they go and no issues whatsoever for the past 3 years.

Rantings of the ‘Chumped’
Rantings of the ‘Chumped’
2 years ago
Reply to  Ella

Omg yes! Dexter. It was scary to see the similarities in his lack of emotion for example. What about Don Draper in Madmen. Even my young adult kids call their Dad Don Draper and laugh. My STBX still won’t watch it.

Amy
Amy
2 years ago
Reply to  Longtime Chump

sooo many over the course of his 7 year affair with my close friend. a series of constant yeast infections (totally abnormal for me). another time I went to kiss him when he returned home from somewhere and his face smelled of skank. We had just lost our son in a car accident a few months prior, so mabe I was just ditracted or not in my right mind, but i brushed it off when hesaid he had a “fish sandwich” on his way home. Don’t judge lol. i was barely surviving during that time. Another time (same “friend”). she hugged us both goodbye and i noticed when she hugged him that he touched her waist in a very familiar/comfortable way. it caught my attention. That was the day after our son’s funeral. I also found an earring in our bed that belonged to her. I know it was hers because I bought them for her birthday. It wasn’t until a year after our son passed that I confronted them. #soembarrassed

Kevin
Kevin
1 year ago
Reply to  Amy

So sorry for your loss

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Amy

If he could do that in the midst of the loss of your son, what’s to stop him from committing murder? That is a terrifying degree of callousness. I hope you have an alarm system set up. And I’m terribly sorry for your loss.

God I hate your ex and never met him.

Peacekeeper
Peacekeeper
2 years ago
Reply to  Amy

((((Amy))))
I am so sorry for the sad loss of your son and for all you have suffered.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  Amy

I can’t begin to imagine the pain of your loss, Amy, and I’m sorry that you feel embarrassed about anything. You have a right to feel whatever you feel, but your ex is the one who should feel humiliated and ashamed.

IdiotNoMore
IdiotNoMore
2 years ago
Reply to  Amy

Amy, I hope they both meet with a terrible Karmic demise. How awful for you.

eirene
eirene
2 years ago
Reply to  IdiotNoMore

Amy, my heart breaks for you. You are one mighty woman for surviving all that. My very deepest sympathies.

Hope49
Hope49
2 years ago
Reply to  Amy

Amy, I am so sorry for the loss of your son and what your ex and your ‘friend’ did to you at the worse time in your life. I can’t think of a betrayal worse than that. I wish I could ‘punch’ both of them but I will pray for you and your son.

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Amy

Your x and xfriend are just the lowest of the low. Cheating during the loss of your son. I don’t think anyone could fault you for not seeing the signs, you were likely just surviving. Sometimes we just aren’t ready to process it all.

Langele
Langele
2 years ago
Reply to  Amy

“That was the day after our son’s funeral.”

I empathize and sympathize and relate.

Today X is persona non gratis after married 39 years. Divorced almost 1.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  Amy

With me it was UTIs. But he had plausible deniability becsuse I get UTIs very easily. After I stopped having sex with him I haven’t had a UTI since.

You have nothing to be ashamed of and nobody here is going to judge you for trusting somebody who was supposed to have your back. I’m so sorry about the loss of your son. xxoo

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
2 years ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Omg, Amy, what horrific monsters you had around you at that painful time! I’m so sorry he was just twisting that knife in your heart. And your “friend”. Yeesh! Psychopaths suck. I’m glad you’re free of them both

amy
amy
2 years ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Thank you xoxox

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Reply to  amy

Amy, I second what OHFFS wrote.

((Hugs))

Tiggerly
Tiggerly
2 years ago
Reply to  Longtime Chump

My ex kissed differently. We used to be really in sync when kissing and we suddenly were bumping noses and just not kissing right.

NotMyFault
NotMyFault
2 years ago
Reply to  Tiggerly

My ex tasted different when we kissed. Yuck as I proceed to throw up.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Reply to  NotMyFault

I got the different kissing too, now that you mention it. I remember that he kissed me passionately one night, and my body recoiled.

The only thing that registered with me was that he seemed like a…gross uncle.

And seemingly overnight he’d acquired an old man’s smell. I washed his robe the next morning in a vain attempt to get rid of the smell. “Out, damned spot!”

I chalked it up to his age, although he was only 59. I don’t know. I think my body knew what my mind didn’t. Something was off.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

Yeah, what is it with that old man scalp odor? Booze? Stress chemicals? Dysbiosis from eating a shitty diet of takeout? Affairs are apparently aging in any case.

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago

I remember in the last few months when he was throwing me a mercy bounce that I just was not enjoying it anymore. Thing is he had been cheating for at least two years with the same woman, and up to that point still carrying on quite an active sex life with me. So I know at that point I started avoiding him more.

So I ponder why the change, did he just quit trying, did I pick up on something? I remember at the end his hugs were limp.

ChumpedNBroken
ChumpedNBroken
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

Wow, I thought I was the only one!! I thought I was INSANE to be thinking that. Nope! He was screening 100s of hookers bareback and didn’t even bother showering before coming home to me. GAG.

Skunkcabbage
Skunkcabbage
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

As a wildlife biologist I can say that you absolutely detected foreign pheromones’ on your mate. Just because our sense of smell and taste aren’t as developed as the next mammal on the tree of life doesn’t mean that our brains can’t still detect it and react accordingly.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Skunkcabbage

LOL. Pheromones are one thing and I’m sure can trigger subconscious wariness. But I think the pungent cheese smell emanating from FW’s nethers a few times was just foreign bacteria and spores.

Absolutely nauseating. Female binge drinkers are apparently prone to chronic yeast and bacterial infections as well as hormone imbalances, high-risk behavior and STDs.
FW’s AP wasn’t exactly the picture of health in any case. Yellow skin, cystic acne, apple-shaped body and eye bags.

The bar tabs and booze bills from that affair were epic. I got every STD test known to man but there are some that don’t manifest immediately, so I’m having to brace for potential future fallout.

IdiotNoMore
IdiotNoMore
2 years ago

This is a reply to everyone who has commented so far. First, thanks for helping me with my dieting efforts because while I can relate and agree, I am ready to barf my effing head off right now. Ewwwwww!!!!

For me, I’d been having miscarriages galore. Then suddenly had an ectopic (tubal) pregnancy. No risk factors for that one, except when the obgyn said I had SIGNIFICANT TUBAL SCARRING.

Guess what? The cheating fuckwit and his whoremaster fuck buddy gave me chlamydia while I was trying to get pregnant and having miscarriages galore. And of course not using protection. What a nice baby gift, right? I wanted to thank them with my axe. To their heads.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  IdiotNoMore

Yes, some of the details require a dose of antiemetics.

I think what happened to you should be a criminal offense. What incredible evil and I’m so sorry you had to endure that.

Irwin
Irwin
2 years ago

I totally agree, you most definitely have a legal case against him….get a lawyer, he could have passed on God knows what more deadly….. He didn’t give shit about your safety…. What else is worth keeping him for???

Bobeanie
Bobeanie
2 years ago
Reply to  IdiotNoMore

Oh my gosh….no words, “Idiotnomore,” you were abused beyond belief.

You have been through hell, and yes, how dare they!!!! How the hell we ever get out of this with sanity is a miracle in itself. Please tell me he is a drug user…something. To think that someone could do this to another person is beyond me.

eirene
eirene
2 years ago
Reply to  IdiotNoMore

Wow, IdiotNoMore, that really, really, really sucks. You have my sympathy, and thank god that cheating fuckwit and his whoremaster fuck buddy (love that, btw) is G O N E !!!

Di
Di
2 years ago
Reply to  Skunkcabbage

Oh my gosh! Yes to all of this – what is much better in my case at least – is that I didn’t smell it but my dog did! (he really was MY dog after this). He’s a pitbull. The very first time my ex-husband cheated (as in physically – I had been teaching from 7:30 am until 11pm (this was his day to hang out with his new amor) and when my ex walked through the front door our (MY) dog of 10 years attacked him – nearly ripped his hand off. This was totally unexplained behavior and he NEVER hurt or even acted aggressively. I got anothe dog (a Cane Corso) and neither would let him in the house.

Robyn The Brave
Robyn The Brave
1 year ago
Reply to  Di

Too bad it was only his hand he nearly ripped off!

ChumpyNoLove
ChumpyNoLove
2 years ago
Reply to  Di

Not chump related but Cane Corso is a beautiful breed. I watch a guy on YouTube who has a channel about his cane called Bruce Wayne. Such a beautiful dog. I’m a Rottweiler guy personally but would seriously consider a cane.

Been there...
Been there...
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

That happen to me..I thought I was crazy I couldn’t stop thinking about that night. Two months later I find out he was screwing our neighbor and yes he had just left her house that night.

ChumpyNoLove
ChumpyNoLove
2 years ago
Reply to  GiveTimeTime

Not crazy at all. My ex wife felt different down there. She never once stopped sleeping with me during her cheating and I slept with her on days which she had been with others and it just felt different. She also smelt different. Graphic yes but I’m sure many here have similar experience. It makes me feel sick to think about it.

irwin
irwin
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpyNoLove

Oh my lord…. Hell now… Is there any decency anymore??

ChumpToTheMax
ChumpToTheMax
2 years ago

Besides the fact he was never home, he became mean when had a new AP. He would find every little thing offensive and rage at me and the kids, like he was trying to prove how bad his home life was so he could justify his cheating.

I look back over our 20 years together and although I only knew of three APs, there must have been many more, seems like he had weird emotional swings once or twice a year, probably when he found a new “luv”.

Involuntary Georgian
Involuntary Georgian
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpToTheMax

Yes to the picking fights for no reason. At the time, I thought it was maybe just a power play (“this fight is about absolutely nothing, but I’m going to push it to DEFCON 1 just to make you back down, thus proving who is the dominant person in this marriage”). Now I realize that it was really about manufacturing conflict in a marriage that had virtually none, so that XW would have something to point to (perhaps just to herself) when she left.

It’s kind of ironic that my interpretation of these fights (“my wife is trying to grind me into submission”) was actually overly generous towards her.

FSW Mid Atlantic
FSW Mid Atlantic
2 years ago

WOW i feel this so much

…i so clearly remember thinking

“are a bunch of kid shoes & kid socks taken off at/near the entry, in an effect dirt-tracking REDUCTION move, really worth SCREAMING at all of us about?”

but then making all the same old excuses for her in my mind

the ones would make for an actual person who just lost their shit over something totally minor

…”don’t worry kids, Mom’s just had a long day, yes c’mon, let’s straighten up our shoes”

turns out mom was just crabby to be home

after one of her many delightful, shoe-free afternoons spent in hotels

Limbo Chumpian
Limbo Chumpian
2 years ago

“Now I realize that it was really about manufacturing conflict in a marriage that had virtually none, so that XW would have something to point to (perhaps just to herself) when she left.”

Oh how I relate to this. It was the first thing I noticed was wrong. The smallest things seemed to get spun into something serious and in hindsight I think it was done to justify his actions.

Mitz
Mitz
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpToTheMax

Yes, they have to ‘demonize’ the spouse to square it to themselves.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  Mitz

Devaluation. And after “overvaluation” or love bombing, that devaluation is devastating to the chump and triggers efforts to get back to the overvaluation stage. What a kibble surge that is for the cheater.

Diane J. Strickland
Diane J. Strickland
2 years ago
Reply to  Mitz

yes. this. still.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpToTheMax

Me too on this. I was always SO hopeful that our marriage would grow close and loving and it seemed there were calmer, more pleasant times then with no change or warning in our home life, he randomly got meaner than hell and very critical. It was likely an excuse to blame his cheating on some awful home life.

Another clue was that he was military but always insisted that we live pretty far from where he worked…only once did we ever live on base and he seemed to try to keep work and home very separate. I think now that nearly all his side-pieces were work related…

which brings me to the point that he was VERY reluctant to bring me to work social functions. It was not unusual for him to go into some degree of rage on the way to work functions…one in particular was so traumatizing that by the time we arrived, the event could have been populated with circus animals and I wouldnt have noticed – which I think was his goal.

MrWonderful’sEx
MrWonderful’sEx
2 years ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

MrWonderful also did not want to live on base where people would know us. Gee, I wonder why. In early years he took me to all the officers’ balls to show off to his command that he was a solid family man. The last 6 years, he would lie and say the command wasn’t holding a holiday party and would “forget” that there was a hail and farewell scheduled so I couldn’t get a sitter and go and he would “have to” go without me.

At his last promotion ceremony in 2009, he wouldn’t pose for even one photo with me. There were all kinds of pics of him with his boss and everyone. I almost got a photo with him but he called his sister over to stand between us.

I took 2 years of swim lessons and became scuba certified because he always complained that I didn’t share his scuba hobby. After my certification, he booked a trip for himself to go with a friend to Cozumel to scuba dive. He paid to fly from Hawaii to Cozumel to scuba dive and left me – newly minted scuba diver – behind. He complained I didn’t share his interests and then when I made a Herculean effort to join him, I was rebuffed. A$$hat.

I often wondered if it mattered to his security clearance that he lied and said he had no enduring friendships with foreign nationals though he had been in an affair with a Portuguese ho (she was also married) for over 10 years. I suppose the military really doesn’t care unless fraternization is involved. I wonder if he will want the evidence I have of it going on public record at trial since his post-retirement civilian job depends on his clearance. No wonder he didn’t want to accept the position which would have required him to do a polygraph exam.

Elderly Chump
Elderly Chump
2 years ago

Mr. WEx

Your story just jogged my memory…That whenever I ‘complied’ to a request of his – zilch – no validation, no appreciation, no acknowledgement etc.

I learned to ignore and move on. The little bit of myself that remained after 30 years was in part because of me seeing this and blowing it off and doing what I wanted to do for me.

None of it ever mattered because I NEVER could please him. Pure crazy making behavior.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  Elderly Chump

My theory is that cheaters resent chumps doing nice things because they feel like we’re rubbing their faces in their misdeeds. It also undermines the narrative that we’re bad and they/APs are special. We’ve already given so much and they’re already so far in debt. They’re so self-centered and weird that stead of feeling grateful and loved, wanting to return the favor and have a mutual, affectionate relationship, they feel suspicious and challenged. As usual, it’s all about them.

Chumpedchange
Chumpedchange
2 years ago
Reply to  bread&roses

Bread and roses, NAILED IT. My friend said to me ” i dont know why, but when you do something for him, he resents it”… i could never understand it except as disordered behaviour. But what you say rings perfectly true. In the end he hated everything that was good about me.

Elderly Chump
Elderly Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  bread&roses

Bread and Roses

Yes. So convuluted.

Zip
Zip
2 years ago
Reply to  Elderly Chump

Very interesting. My cheater did not want me doing nice things for him. It made him very uncomfortable. I always thought that was because he was a people pleaser and always wanted to be the one to do nice things for others (and he liked to get the credit).
The reciprocity was unbalanced in the opposite way and not for my lack of trying.

Thirtythreeyearsachump
Thirtythreeyearsachump
2 years ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

Unicornomore, he stopped inviting me to office functions shortly after he hired the HoWorker. He couldn’t stop taking about her. Dropped her name constantly. Told me how I much would like her. I don’t. Talked about her writing erotica, which amused me since she was a bible carrying Christian. That hypocritical whore came to my house for his birthday party talking about how she brought his favorite cake, and his favorite olives. I’d invited his entire office. I told her I already made his favorite cake and showed her the jar of his favorite olives in the fridge. She didn’t even look slightly shamed.

He had already insisted I not work on the base where he worked as a GS14. He claimed my salary would just make us pay more taxes. Now I know he didn’t want me around to see all those late nights were just fucking that Howorker. He wanted his coworkers to forget he was married to me.

He moved out of our bedroom. Claimed he couldn’t sleep in our bed. He slept in the bed if I was gone.

He was so mean to me. Deliberately cruel, gaslighting me. He could not be pleased. He started fights so he could leave. He hated me. He hates me even more since I left him. He has contested this divorce for 23 months. He thinks our marital assets are all his. I can’t wait for the final judgement. The Judge will force him to comply with the Law.

Attie
Attie
2 years ago

Damn, I had to look twice – thought I’d missed a Thursday. It is Thursday right? I guess the biggest clue for me was that he stopped coming home sometime in January 2010 for about six weeks. I thought I’d misplaced the cat but nope it was the Twat!

FriendofChump
FriendofChump
2 years ago

When they keep bringing up a new “friend” in nearly every conversation. Thats the beginning of the “it just happened” excuse.

Also, accusing you of being a cheater.

Duped for Years
Duped for Years
2 years ago
Reply to  FriendofChump

So true. I noticed he talked about a new coworker a little TOO much! And then he told me about the pain she has in her labia and all the treatments she’s tried to make the pain go away. I don’t know…to me, that did not seem like appropriate work talk between a 29 year old and a 50 year old. But, it was enough for him to take “pity” on her and follow her subsequent procedures to eliminate the pain – and enough for him to want to try it out once the procedure was a success. How did this girl NOT know what she was doing? Now he’s paying for her to go to medical school so she can help other women that talk to their male coworkers about their vagina. And, he’s wed her and bought her a brand new half-million dollar condo to live in. Guess I should have talked about my vagina more.

Meanwhile, I started having nightmares that he told me he was leaving with me. Repeated nightmares. Every time I told him about them he’d say, “I’d never leave you!” I’ve now found out that’s one of the “things they say”…”I’d never leave you.” “I’d never do that to you.” Chumpy me bought it, though.

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago

” I’ve now found out that’s one of the “things they say”…”I’d never leave you.” “I’d never do that to you.” Chumpy me bought it, though.”

They do say it.

My guess is once they start saying it, they are already planning it.

Zip
Zip
2 years ago
Reply to  Susie Lee

Lots of people say “I’d never leave you and they mean it”
A lot of the things cheaters do and say are also done by people who are committed, honest and good (like getting moody, or getting fit, buying new clothes or talking casually about someone at work once in a while).
We shouldn’t blame ourselves for looking back and not seeing the signs… they’re not always signs of cheating.
Secretive things like hiding the phone and a some others are very fishy though.

But this can be crazy making. You don’t enter into a relationship thinking you need to be a super detective. Because in a normal healthy relationship you don’t need to be. The normal healthy assumption is that your partner is not cheating.

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago
Reply to  Zip

All so true Zip.

I mean, I am sure I said some of the same things to the ex, and I meant it.

Having said that, it is also possible that back when he said it, he may have meant it. It is possible that he was one of the cheaters that started out just screwing around thinking I would never find out, he would never get leave etc.

But, of course a cheating heart is not a trustworthy heart; so no matter how it starts out, it almost always ends in heartbreak for the betrayed.

Zip
Zip
2 years ago
Reply to  Susie Lee

Yeah, who knows what goes on in their head and who cares! I remember mine saying in the beginning that he would never do anything to damage our relationship or something like that. He said he knew how lucky he was and he wasn’t going to screw this up.
I thought it was the oddest statement, and I asked him what he meant -and he just said again he knew how lucky he was and he never betray my trust.
Knowing what happened, I take that as him knowing that he had a cheater side to him… He had good intentions, until he didn’t.
Cheaters just don’t seem to be very solid people -regardless of how or why it starts.

Chumpedchange
Chumpedchange
2 years ago
Reply to  Zip

Yes, at the beginning i think he did love me… but there was some strange comments. I’m reminded by these posts… he said that ” you made an honest man out of me” like some bachanded funny Irsish Ol Country saying. Now i know that he had never been faithful to any of the women he was with. SO FREAKING GLAD TO BE OUT OF ALL THAT

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago
Reply to  Zip

“Cheaters just don’t seem to be very solid people -regardless of how or why it starts.”

That is indeed the crux of the situation.

Chumpedbypureevil
Chumpedbypureevil
2 years ago
Reply to  FriendofChump

yes……this one for sure ^^^

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  FriendofChump

That’s Jackass. Telling me all about the MOW except when she initiated the contact and what that contact was. Otherwise, I heard all about her.

MaisyL
MaisyL
2 years ago
Reply to  FriendofChump

I never thought about this one, but I got a new job about a year before I found out about the affair. My new boss was a great mentor and Ex kept making “joking” comments about me and my boss – which could not have been further from the truth. I was a bit flattered, assuming he was mildly jealous, but of course he was just projecting — because he was already screwing his protege.

KB22
KB22
2 years ago
Reply to  FriendofChump

True. When the affair is about to start they will insert the potential AP into every conversation. When the affair is in full swing the AP is rarely mentioned. Also true is that they get mean and have absolutely no patience. Find fault with everything and resent your existence. Right then and there though the chump should start making arrangements to see a lawyer. Affair or no affair no one should tolerate that treatment.

breads&roses
breads&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  KB22

“Also true is that they get mean and have absolutely no patience. Find fault with everything and resent your existence.”
^^^
Add to the confusion: they are walking on eggshells around YOU and you are overly sensitive and difficult.

Hurt&Confused
Hurt&Confused
2 years ago
Reply to  KB22

I felt waves of resentment from my ex prior to him walking out on me. He was really impatient with me too and often told me to shut up. I couldn’t understand what I had done wrong. Everything seemed fine then the next thing I know, my heart and life as I knew it was shattered into a million pieces. That was nearly 8 months ago and I still can’t make sense of what happened. I am so traumatised. I have a great counsellor though who is helping me navigate the fallout. I will get there eventually.

PrincipledLife
PrincipledLife
2 years ago
Reply to  Hurt&Confused

H & C:

Oh that is such a painful place to be. My Dday was a few years ago, 5 months before Christmas…I realized recently I have no memories of that Christmas. Not one. When the stress shatters us we put the pieces of ourselves back together, but there are gaps. That Christmas is one that never came back.

I don’t think Chumps can ever make sense of what happened, because it is not logical, not moral…it makes no sense to people with an ethical worldview. At some point you stop trying to understand the why. I’m not completely there yet, but at 8 months out you are doing well if you get dressed most days, can drive safely and aren’t lying in a closet drinking gin. Give yourself some grace for how you are doing…your world exploded. You will get there eventually. 🙂

ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
2 years ago
Reply to  KB22

Ex brought her name up a lot and eventually I asked if this was some sort of desensitization therapy. He agreed. That was when he’d agreed to not contact her unless I was told and not see her unless it was at our house with me present. (She was a girl with no close friends living alone and being her White Knight, so he thought, he was concerned for her safety.) I was so naive and trusting for quite some time!

ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
2 years ago

Oh, forgot to add, he was actually calling her and Facebooking all that time, of course, despite promising not to and talking about grieving his ‘best friend’. I was FB friends with both of them at the time, and there was one odd ‘coincidence’ between a post she put up one day about giving compliments, and a comment he made about compliments he’d got that day (he was out of the house on a course) made me wonder. He later admitted he’d called her on that day. Coincidence? I think not.

ChumpyNoLove
ChumpyNoLove
2 years ago
Reply to  KB22

The being mean and nasty just floored me. It’s easy now to look back and see all the years of abuse and pathological lying from her but at the time last year I never expected her to be so angry at me. It was borderline hatred I felt. How she looked at me, how so neglected me, how she just lost interest in me and became so cold and critical. I told my doctor it was like she became possessed by a demon. In reality after speaking to professionals, her mask simply fell and I seen her for who she really is.

Newchump101
Newchump101
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpyNoLove

Same happened to me. Brutal.

MARCUS LAZARUS
MARCUS LAZARUS
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpyNoLove

CNL. Boom. You nailed it. Their eyes go black and you stare down into the elevator shaft of their soul.
Scary but effective face slap.

Closest I’ve Ever been in contact with E. V. I. L.

ChumpyNoLove
ChumpyNoLove
2 years ago
Reply to  MARCUS LAZARUS

There was one Saturday night in which I will never forget the look on her face towards me. It was hatred and a dark emptiness and the smug look she gave as she belittled me to our 9 year old little girl. I know now it’s called duper delight. End of the day the joke is on her as I divorced her and walked away. Rejecting them is a powerful weapon.

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpyNoLove

Yes. I love that leaving them is a SuperPower!

So many signs – chumpy, trusting me – she brought him soup to our house after he almost died of sepsis (he later told me “You saved my life”. A-hole.) I kept forgetting her name – she was a subcontractor of his. I just forgot it again – what a happy moment! There is hope, chump-friends!

I’m 4 years out. But those early days of misery? Every one I slogged through AWAY from Fw was a step toward this Tuesday “Moment of Meh”! You saved MY life, CL & CN!

MrWonderful’sEx
MrWonderful’sEx
2 years ago

He had all these female “friends” when we met. Only it gave me an off feeling in my stomach. His ex-fiancée had left for no reason whatsoever. And when we were still dating, he would throw out these little put downs to see how I would react. For example, we were out shooting pool and the bartender hit on me. I told FW about it and he said I MUST have been mistaken (because obviously, no one in the world would hit on me). That should have been the last straw. I should have run.

I wouldn’t trade having my son for the world and it’s possible I will eventually walk away ahead financially than where I would have been alone. But being gutted by this monster of a human being and suffering his controlling nature and cheating has been horrible. It’s hard not to focus on the time I have lost being stuck with him rather than looking forward to future days when I will be FW-free. I wish I could go back and tell myself to trust my gut.

Chumpkins
Chumpkins
2 years ago

>>And when we were still dating, he would throw out these little put downs to see how I would react.

Only in hindsight could I see he was wrong in this, and it had no basis in reality. Of course I grew up with it (family scapegoat), and so didn’t see how wrong it was. Disgusting. No wonder he did all he could to separate me from friends who could have given me a sense of perspective, He was my first boyfriend, so I had no perspective. Jackal.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  Chumpkins

The husband of a dear friend of mine made a “joking” comment – in front of said friend and me – about wishing their kids were better looking, and insinuating it was her fault. What a shallow fuck. Not to mention, she is gorgeous, and their kids are amazing. My hackles went up, but this was before I knew about cheaters. Now I’m wondering, was this comment alone damning enough to be evidence? Never mind that there are other red flags. He’s a snide, entitled P.A. workaholic who talks a little too much about his attractive young coworker while his wife spends long days in the boonies taking care of their young kids.

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago

Saaaaame

The gut feeling
The controlling, nasty nature
Hellish, I wish I had known sooner and not wasted 15 years.

Kim
Kim
2 years ago
Reply to  StillinHealing

Yeah….my ex was like that too and it was wrapped up in a phony, nice guy image. He was deeply insecure and would make nasty remarks under his breath and then paint a phony smile on his face and wish you a nice day.

He was too much of a conflict avoidant coward to address things that bothered him so he had to get little digs in that he could avoid having to own.

Then of course he’d play dumb and pretend he had no idea why you were upset….after all, he’d wished you a nice day.

FriendofChump
FriendofChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Kim

I briefly dated someone like this and was friends with a woman like this. It’s scary how they can fool people into thinking they’re kind and care about humanity.

Shelly
Shelly
2 years ago
Reply to  Kim

That was my experience. He never owned up to any of the jabs, snide comments, eye rolls. He didn’t even own up to the lying on the day we closed on our house and went our separate ways. Coward. I still wonder if he’s changed. How could he not be jolted into a wake up?

Bruno
Bruno
2 years ago
Reply to  Shelly

The day we signed papers of her giving up the house she lied to the clerk to infer I had cheated and she was the victim! When I showed up later to sign the office was concerned I had coerced her signature. They apparently made phone calls and double checked documents. Satisfied, they gave me the paperwork to sign. When it was done the clerk said she and XH divorced and asked what ended our marriage. “She cheated and had no remorse.” To which the clerk said, “Funny. She said you were the one.”

Fearful&loathing
Fearful&loathing
2 years ago
Reply to  Bruno

What bitch, right to the end.

I bet female cheaters get away with the lie that they were the ones cheated on far more than a male would.

It at least shows she was embarrassed enough to make up the lie.

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago
Reply to  StillinHealing

Or my family’s love.
He betrayed them too.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  StillinHealing

^^^
And all the mutual friends who love you, too.

Anewwoman
Anewwoman
2 years ago

He would come home from work and immediately change his clothes. He worked a desk job not construction, where I might understand. Sometimes he’d even throw a load of laundry in before saying hello. It struck me as odd at the time. Now I get it. Had to wash off scents and stains.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  Anewwoman

This. Mine started washing his own clothes for the first time in his lazy life. Long after D-day he still wouldn’t admit that it was because he was afraid I’d smell her or see stains, but his explanation for this sudden change made no sense.

ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Anewwoman

Ex spent 3 nights taking her to and from work as her van had broken down, and spending hours at her caravan. I was already upset at the amount of time and attention he spent on her, but hadn’t realised what was going on. On one night he got back and went directly into the shower telling me she’d been baking and burnt some bread, and he wanted to wash the smell off. I’ll never know, but I do wonder if that was the night they had sex instead of discussing how they wouldn’t, to save our marriage. He told me they’d had this discussion some time earlier.

Faithful Rage
Faithful Rage
2 years ago
Reply to  Anewwoman

Mine would strip off his scrubs in the Landry room, and start a loud with only that. When I’d ask why, he’d act snarky “I’m the only one who does laundry”. Um no. He smelled differently—like booze some days (he’s a relapsed alcoholic), vapes and cigarettes, sometimes like fruity perfume—turns out it was a cheap Walmart body spray that the sex worker wore. The kicker that I can find funny in hindsight is the strange shaved strip down his chest. He wasn’t a super hairy person, but she must have claimed him by shaving this strip on his chest. At the end of our summer or wreconciliation, I took my older son back to college. When I returned, he had the strip shaved again… had she been in my house again? Most likely.

Chris W.
Chris W.
2 years ago
Reply to  Faithful Rage

Yes, Dracula would RUN to the laundry room from coming in from his car to get his jacket and clothes in the washer before I could touch them. Once, when I was pregnant with my first, I surprised him in the kitchen when he was coming in from the outside to get to the laundry room. He pushed me so hard to get to the washer, I fell against the counter and was fearful for my pregnancy.

And smelling like cigarettes and chewing gum to hide that he’d been smoking something – weed, cigarettes, vaping, etc. Which was so odd as he was a severe asthmatic. Like asthma so bad he needed an inhaler several times every single day. Which just shows what a dumbass he is that he’s smoking!

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago
Reply to  Anewwoman

Eeeew.
Sickening.
I wish you well and thriving!!!!!! That you moved on and have put a lot of space in between, never look back!!!
Disgusting a.h.

LeavingToxicTown
LeavingToxicTown
2 years ago

He bought new underwear.

Shelly
Shelly
2 years ago

Same. At 60 he was now wearing colored bikini briefs. Ugh!

kathy
kathy
2 years ago
Reply to  Shelly

mine, too. Going to the gym 3x a week and bikini underwear hidden on a closest shelf for his Adult Friend Finder selfies and hooking up..a 65 year old man!! For months I had been begging him to just tell me, I knew in my gut he was cheating. Of course, he said I was crazy, he’d never do that. The day I found the acct, (one he’d had for 10 years), I was awake all night, wondering how my life could have changed so drastically, but I waited, followed him on this acct for 3 weeks, reading emails as he talked shit about me and made plans to have sex with complete strangers. I was married over 35 years, but so glad to be getting out of this shitshow..I will never understand.

Light Heart
Light Heart
2 years ago
Reply to  kathy

Oh… goodness Kathy!

What forethought to hide and watch for a while… it must have been SOOO painful, but you were in real time. Most of us are trying to go back in time and recreate our side of events to put things together and re-write our histories. You had the advantage (when you’re looking back) of having a had ring-side seat. That seems valuable, because you knew exactly what was going on in your marriage AND what he was doing in secret.

FormerlyKnownAs
FormerlyKnownAs
2 years ago
Reply to  kathy

What an ass Kathy. You don’t deserve that. He’s a loser.

A. Nonnienonnie Muss
A. Nonnienonnie Muss
2 years ago
Reply to  Shelly

Yup. changed the style of his underwear and began grooming his pubes.

Letitsnow
Letitsnow
2 years ago

Yup groom the pubes and whiten the teeth.

DuddersGetsChumped
DuddersGetsChumped
2 years ago
Reply to  Letitsnow

Mine too!

duped for years
duped for years
2 years ago

Mine bought new underwear and shaved his chest hair. I hated it because his chest hair would start to grow in and he’d want to snuggle with me and it was uncomfortable. I asked him to stop and he wouldn’t. Now I know why…He also tried trimming down his pubic hair to “see if I would like it”. I had lived with his pubic hair for 29 years. He didn’t change it for me. He had a hairy back and ass…if I wanted him to shave anything, it was those two things! LOL! He never took an effort to look good or lose weight for me. For the other woman he shed a good 50 lbs in a few months.

duped for years
duped for years
2 years ago

I guarantee the only reason the other woman chased after him was his money. He’s nothing to look at.

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago

While my fw looked ok, I mean no movie star but ok; I do know she was after a meal ticket. Hell everyone knew it. He wasn’t her first married man rodeo for the same reason, but he was her boss, so…

Worked out ok though. She got a steady meal ticket, but he took her out of the trailer park and she landed right back in it a few years down the line. Well deserved.

Galaxy mind
Galaxy mind
2 years ago
Reply to  Letitsnow

Same here. Started washing his own clothes and completely shaved his pubes. Said because he was sweaty.

Sandyfeet
Sandyfeet
2 years ago

After 36 years mine manscaped. I called him out on it & he said it was for the dermatologist skin inspection. It was for the parasite 26 ish girlfriend howorker.

Betteroff without Bambi
Betteroff without Bambi
2 years ago

There were all sorts of signs. I knew. This was not the first and will not be the last.
The kicker was finding deer antler velvet from Groupon (supposed testosterone booster) half empty in a drawer in the dining room. At that point we had not had s3x in months since he could not “rise to the occasion”
Then my teen daughters saw him s3xexting someone that was not me.

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago

One thing that in real time during the “good” years that I thought was a good thing was that my fw was always very adventuresome in terms of sex. On the beach at night, in the water, in the bathroom while visiting others, all sorts of risky situations. I pretty much went along for the ride. I mean I enjoyed sex too, and of course I knew that if I didn’t please him he would stray, (lol) lotta good it did me. Now I wonder if that was not a red flag that he liked the risk, and that he was more prone to cheat.

We never got caught, but he always took advantage of situations for risky sex.

GrandmaChump
GrandmaChump
3 months ago
Reply to  Susie Lee

Mine too! I thought even when it happened that it was a way for him to control me sexually. And it worked; I had to keep my mind on all around me rather than on “enjoying” the experience.

Later, I would wipe out the irritation of being not-cherished by remembering a single sweet memory from college days of a single tryst under the sheltering arms of a dense evergreen, in a remote corner of a park, with my French beau who I’d always thought of as a delightful sort of Peter Pan. Not a keeper; I wanted someone solid. Hah.

Years after I’d left, my post-Marine son walked in on him and his since-college girlfriend going wild on the living room floor. House was unlocked, and he was expected. So this proved what? Studly dad? Creepy jerk!

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

It’s working. I had a similar issue in a Zoom class this week. We just have to hang in there and hang on right now!

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

How about an OW letter? I get a major dilithium crystal charge when you run an OW letter.

????

#chumpcatniphigh

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago

???? Or we could share gooey texts and emails we found from the APs. Always good for a laugh.

MrWonderful’sEx
MrWonderful’sEx
2 years ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I love this one that one of the OW wrote MrWonderful after he shared with her a link to erotica he liked. She said something that the link must have been wrong because it was a story about siblings in an incestuous relationship. hahahaha Naw, that is what FW is into. You won the sparkly turd. Enjoy!

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago

hahahahaha

Thirtythreeyearsachump
Thirtythreeyearsachump
2 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Unicornomore, he stopped inviting me to office functions shortly after he hired the HoWorker. He couldn’t stop taking about her. Dropped her name constantly. Told me how I much would like her. I don’t. Talked about her writing erotica, which amused me since she was a bible carrying Christian. That hypocritical whore came to my house for his birthday party talking about how she brought his favorite cake, and his favorite olives. I’d invited his entire office. I told her I already made his favorite cake and showed her the jar of his favorite olives in the fridge. She didn’t even look slightly shamed.

He had already insisted I not work on the base where he worked as a GS14. He claimed my salary would just make us pay more taxes. Now I know he didn’t want me around to see all those late nights were just fucking that Howorker. He wanted his coworkers to forget he was married to me.

He moved out of our bedroom. Claimed he couldn’t sleep in our bed. He slept in the bed if I was gone.

He was so mean to me. Deliberately cruel, gaslighting me. He could not be pleased. He started fights so he could leave. He hated me. He hates me even more since I left him. He has contested this divorce for 23 months. He thinks our marital assets are all his. I can’t wait for the final judgement. The Judge will force him to comply with the Law.

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

????????????
It’s a good challenge!

Attie
Attie
2 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Ha ha, CL, you are forgiven. I had to look twice because I had a little too much to drink last night toasting the birth of my first grandchild!

ThursdaysChild
ThursdaysChild
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Oh how fantastic–congratulations!

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Awesome! Congrats.????

LezChump
LezChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Congrats, Attie! ????

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grandma sounds like an amazing title and occupation!!!!!!

Attie
Attie
2 years ago
Reply to  StillinHealing

Thank you so much. I’m in heaven!

Limbo Chumpian
Limbo Chumpian
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Awww, congratulations!! My mom tells me all the time how much more she loves being a grandparent over a mom. Thanks, mom! Lol. But you do get all the snuggles and fewer of the scream sessions. I hope you are able to visit the baby!

GrandmaChump
GrandmaChump
3 months ago
Reply to  Limbo Chumpian

Also, grandma doesn’t get blamed for whatever goes wrong in the grandkid’s life. Grandparents often are given credit for being wise…not an accolade often offered to mere parents. Until the kids have kids….

Attie
Attie
2 years ago
Reply to  Limbo Chumpian

I wasn’t allowed to go to the hospital of course (we’re in lockdown again in France) but I kept him for 5 hours yesterday while the kids were running round registering his birth and so on. My oldest son is living with me at the moment until he moves into his new place in July and he’s even more ga ga than I am (I actually put the kitchen timer on the table when son was holding the baby so he wouldn’t get more time than I did)! And thank you all for the congratulations. It’s a new chapter for me, that’s for sure!

kimsoverit
kimsoverit
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Congratulations Attie!! kitchen timer, priceless. “It’s my turn now!” lol

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Attie,
How wonderful!!! Congratulations!

And, CL, I love that you’re human. Plus, we chumps love challenges, regardless of the day.

Seasoned Chump
Seasoned Chump
2 years ago

When I first met him, he would proudly tell me (unsolicited) that he had never cheated on any of his GFs (he was 30 at the time). Ends up that is all he did to his WIFE of 15 yes starting at year 2.

NEVER marry a project, or ‘build a man’ to their fullest potential, for they will surely end up resenting you and downgrading with someone who will stroke and pander to their new found inflated and fragile ego.

FriendofChump
FriendofChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Seasoned Chump

Agree 100%

People who lack accountability will always shift the blame.

The person who was with them when they were down reminds them of their failures and “bad” feelings, so they move where the “good” feelings are, aka attention and ego boosts.

That’s why I say hell no to protect boyfriends. I ain’t Bob the Builder for nobody but myself.

Rebecca2
Rebecca2
2 years ago

He got really mean. I couldn’t do anything right – and everything I did he’d twist to be somehow an attack on him. He started accusing me of being controlling. He started taking more care with how he looked. He became desperate for “alone time” (I’m an extrovert and he’s more of an introvert; I tried so hard to honor that difference, and he took advantage of that, going to her during that “alone time”). He changed how he kissed me and how we had sex (yes we continued to be intimate, but it was like he was learning new tricks). Mostly, though, it was the rage and accusations that I’d crushed all of his dreams and ruined his life.

Rebecca
Rebecca
2 years ago
Reply to  Rebecca2

There are now 2 Rebeccas.
I’m 11 years post-day and many years since the divorce was final.
Hope others can tell us apart!

Chumperella
Chumperella
2 years ago
Reply to  Rebecca2

OMG! “he changed how he kissed me”. That triggered a memory for me. He suddenly changed how he kissed me about 5 years before dday and I really did not like his new “technique” – I just tolerated it; it was easier than dealing with the rage that would inevitably accompany me having an independent thought about our physical life. Thanks Rebecca for turning on the light bulb 🙂 Now I need go sit down and plant my palm on my forehead repeatedly :/

GrandmaChump
GrandmaChump
3 months ago
Reply to  Chumperella

My daughter gave me a vase/pot with a human face on it.
Obviously, used it to grow a palm.

YogiChump
YogiChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Chumperella

X didn’t like to kiss the first 27 years of our relationship. It made me a little sad, but I thought never being kissed was a small price to pay for being married to such great guy.???? About a year before discard he decided he liked to kiss and wanted to do it often. I felt bad because kissing him gave me the creeps. Now I know why. My current boyfriend is a great kisser. ????

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Reply to  Chumperella

Well, I think this entire challenge warrants a group facepalm! You’re not alone.
????????‍♀️ ????????‍♂️ ????????‍♀️????????‍♂️????????‍♀️ ????????‍♂️

SoManyTuesdays
SoManyTuesdays
2 years ago
Reply to  Rebecca2

The changes in bed were number one for me. He was always an awful lay, but he got more creative at being awful.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Reply to  SoManyTuesdays

“…he got more creative at being awful.” haha.

I swear that some of my ex’s new “moves” in the bedroom were de facto practice sessions.

#sexguineapig

Grace
Grace
2 years ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

Spinach

I swear that some of my ex’s new “moves” in the bedroom were de facto practice sessions.

I’m open minded person and from the beginning I believed in good communication- sex related as well.
Your comment reminded me something- at some point he started asking me different questions about brands of lingerie, about the way women experience different stuff in bed, ways to pleasure the woman.
Stupid me thought that I would be getting a nice gift ( never happened) or will be pleasure in bed ( oh please….)

I was his free human encyclopedia- extracting info in order to impress his hookers, women he dated etc.
It felt like a double betrayal….

On the top of that- I was hearing small negative comments about the way I looked, was, being deprived of a healthy sexual life for years.

Gettingthereslowly
Gettingthereslowly
2 years ago
Reply to  SoManyTuesdays

Yes, same here. He wanted to try new things that pleased me in bed, while not worrying a bit about what pleased me in life. And he was never good in bed, and clearly needed the practice at pleasing a woman!

Givetimetime
Givetimetime
2 years ago
Reply to  Rebecca2

Hey Rebecca, thank you for writing that for me. Same exact story here. Innocent things I’d say would become huge fights because obviously I was trying to ruin his life. Really? I just asked you why you would want to visit New York in February instead of waiting until the weather got better. That somehow became I didn’t want him to ever go anywhere and I somehow stopped him from living his life. Then I’d be the one who would end up hysterically cying and apologizing. WTF?

LezChump
LezChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Givetimetime

I saw what you wrote above, GiveTimeTime. The sex stuff is awful, possibly the most humiliating thing for me to remember. I don’t think I’ve ever shared the following with CN, because it just feels so vulnerable, but here goes:

Right before D-Day #1 in 2004 (which was just a week after STBX returned from a research trip where she’d indulged in a brief fling), we were having sex, and STBX got this really weird look on her face and asked why I didn’t act more interested in her breasts. Mind you, I’d always been plenty interested in them, but I guess I didn’t worship them actively enough. Everything about the question itself and her tone of voice was off. After D-Day, of course, I understood the context.

Fast-forward 14 years. I stayed with STBX because she seemed so very sorry about Affair #1, was eager to do all the therapy, etc. (It was all kibbles for her.) Anyway, throughout the summer of 2018, STBX was acting strange, but I thought it was because her mother had just died, and we were helping her dad clear out the house for a possible sale, etc. I never in a million years thought that she would be having an affair, because she was consulting weekly with her therapist (who had been my therapist), and because STBX is an unconvincing liar in general. (Turns out she can get away with a lot when she doesn’t have to lie to my face about it, because I’m not asking direct questions.) Apart from what I’m about to share, the only other alarm bell was one time I saw a notification on her phone that she had gotten a message from “AP name,” and it was a name I didn’t recognize. I thought about joking that she must have a new girlfriend or something, but I didn’t actually say that, because I was treating her with kid gloves after the death of her mother.

Anyway, apart from that text notification, the only other indication I had that something was wrong was when we had sex one afternoon, and STBX wore the same weird look that I had seen after Affair #1. She said, “you aren’t really enjoying this very much, are you?” or something to that effect. I replied that it was just an afternoon quickie, and it was fine, and I was distracted and not looking to have the orgasm of my life. STBX clearly was imbuing the occasion with MUCH more significance than I was. Struck by the eerie similarity to the exchange we’d had after Affair #1, I thought about saying something, but again I chalked it up to the fact that STBX’s mom had recently died, and she must be re-evaluating things in her life.

That was my reasoning as well after STBX came to me crying a few weeks later and said she wasn’t sure she could keep going (with our relationship). It wasn’t until later that week, when she finally came clean that she was not just looking for an open marriage but had already opened it up for herself, that I realized the truth. “Chump” describes perfectly how I felt after learning the truth.

Anyway, I feel for all chumps who have felt things were off while being intimate with their cheaters. I guess it stands to reason that we would sense something is off during those moments, because it’s not as though cheaters are master spies or whatever, and we are all quite exposed and vulnerable in bed. I don’t do this anymore, but for a long time, I was upset with my chump self for not saying anything before D-Day #2 when STBX acted strangely during sex. I wonder now if she would have spilled the beans entirely if I had pointed out the similarity in her expression from the time after Affair #1. But, then I remind myself that I DIDN’T mention it because I was trying to be kind, while she was devaluing and deceiving me. And that’s really the only thing I need to know.

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
2 years ago

She joined a choir. Sounds innocent doesn’t it? Choir practise was an evening or two a week and then the odd performance at weekends. Who was I to know that she wasn’t attending the practises and that she could never make the performances because of “work”? I only worked out that bit of the jigsaw puzzle a couple of years after D Day; a work colleague’s wife who was a member of the same choir recognised my name and mentioned – in passing – that she seldom turned up.

I should have worked it out much sooner. She can’t sing for sh*t.

Also …. she became aggressively protective of her phone. She never let out of her sight and always took calls in another room. This bit her on the ar*e eventually; she synched it to the iPad that the kids used. This did not end well for her.

LFTT

Chris W
Chris W
2 years ago

Yes, this is how I finally caught Dracula. I knew something was off, and asked him all the time if he was cheating. He denied it all the time. But he had synced his iPhone to an iPad that he left home one time, and odd people were texting him. I popped up all of their names in Social Media and found my evidence, all of which I screen shot and used in court to crush him.

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris W

Chris,

They are seldom as clever as they think they are! Sounds like you got a good result.

I was able to use screenshots of Ex-Mrs LFTT’s open FB profile to disprove a number of her lies in court.

LFTT

Bullshit and Lies
Bullshit and Lies
2 years ago

FW father (FWF) is aggressively protective of his phone. There was a time where he shared his computer password with me. The reason for this was in the event he died and I needed to know where to find specific information for handling his affairs.

At some point that switched. Mind you, I never went on his computer, but after I found some things while cleaning out my parents’ house last year, I tried one of his old computers and the password was not what it should have been in the beginning, nor what other passwords he told me over the years.

He was always, and I mean ALWAYS on his phone. VERY protective of it. He also always carried a “work bag” with him, even when he wasn’t working. When he had a major surgery and was in the hospital for weeks after, he wanted his computer bag, computer, and phone with him AT ALL TIMES! He slept with that phone in his bed with him. Finally, when he went home after the surgery, he left his computer bag there before going to my parents’ vacation home. When I was cleaning out their house, I looked in the pockets of that computer bag to see what was so interesting that he had to have it with him at all times. I found thumb drives with LOTS of porn.

Then a year later, when he was going back to the hospital for checkups, he had a different bag that he’d carry around with him that had his catheters in it. He asked me to open it to either get something out or put something in and I saw that he had inside pockets sewn into this bag (cheap nylon/canvas bag). I unzipped an inside pocket and saw another thumb drive. I don’t even need to guess what is on that drive.

FWF has a strange hatred of women/attraction to women. He hates, HATES women in charge, business leaders. Having been a muckety muck in the business world, he knows “big name” executive women and he says they are all stupid (because he used to work with some of them).

I think the biggest thing to notice/remember is how you feel around your FW. There have been times I’ve felt the ickiest feelings when we would be in the company of certain other women. Turns out that was my intuition telling me that person was an AP of FWF. In front of the family and everything, he’d invite them (and their husbands) over for dinner and sit next to the woman and they were probably having a grand time pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes.

When I have an instant, gut reaction to a woman near my father, I now accept that my intuition is telling me something.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago

Good point about icky feelings. I have had these feelings about a few women over the years. FW insisted over and over that there was only one AP, but I doubt that. One woman in particular, who was the sister of my BIL’s wife, was very strange and awkward with me every time I saw her. There was something creepy about her. Later I found out the jerk was attracted to her, but he insists nothing happened. After D-day I found a mysterious draft in his emails. It had no addressee, but said the single line “I need to see you tonight.” This draft was made a year before he started up with the AP I know about at around the time I was getting a weird vibe from that previous woman. He would not admit there is anything to it, but just brushed it off because the email wasn’t sent and said he has no memory of it. As far as I’m concerned, that was more than likely just a first draft of a later email that was sent to that creepy woman. I’ll never know everything he did and it’s been tough to accept.

Your FWF sounds like a horrible misogynist and all around poor excuse for a human being. I’m sorry you had to see all that porn and meet his pig APs. Yuck!

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago

“She can’t sing for sh*t.”

I love that detail. The shit they pull off is unbelievable and we feel so gullible in retrospect, but, honestly, at the time, we had no reason to be suspicious.

My ex can’t dance for sh*t and HATES to dance, but if he’d said he was taking dancing lessons, I probably would have applauded his efforts. Geez Louise!!

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
2 years ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

S@35,

It’s not just that I had no reason to be suspicious. I knew that if I’d questioned her newly acquired hobby, I’d have been shouted down for not supporting her and being a controlling bully who was trying to undermine her; this was her “go to” response at any time that I had the temerity to ask a probing (and justified) question or set a boundary by saying “no.”

LFTT

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago

Omg. I get it. Ugh.

Also, it sounds like *she* was the bully. Projection and manipulation. Classic!

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
2 years ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

S@35,

You got it in one.

She pulled a similar stunt with our son when he started asking “too many questions” about a savings account in his name that she was trustee for. Thankfully he saw this for what it was; a smokescreen to try and hide some really dubious sh*t that she had done.

I made sure he got his money back (>£1K), but watching him realise that his mother didn’t just steal my money, but his and his sister’s too was heart-breaking.

LFTT

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago

Oh no! That’s totally heartbreaking. Yet another betrayal of trust. She’s awful.

Good thing those kids have one sane parent!

snapoutofit
snapoutofit
2 years ago

My Ex was constantly on his phone and was “aggressively protective” of his phone too.. In the past he left his phone on the bedroom dresser while he took a shower. During the affair, he would even take it into the bathroom with him when he took a shower.

Maryam
Maryam
2 years ago

He left his phone on the counter, face up.

It buzzed. I saw a text from an unknown number asking him whether he thought they should circumsize their new baby.

That was a tip off. In more ways than one.

eirene
eirene
2 years ago
Reply to  Maryam

Holy crap, Maryam. What a dick he is. And how did he explain that text—wrong number?

Maryam
Maryam
2 years ago
Reply to  eirene

Nah. At that point he was all “they are my true family.” Turned out that OW’s baby was not biologically his, but he didn’t care.

Givetimetime
Givetimetime
2 years ago

There were too many signs for me to possibly write about them all here. Some of them were so absolutely glaring that it now makes me sick that I let it go on for so long. Realizing how blind I allowed myself to be still concerns me. Am I that gullible about everything? How can I ever trust ANYONE? That’s one of the worst parts about this.

KR
KR
2 years ago
Reply to  Givetimetime

I have already decided I am not trusting anyone again. Its a bad way to live but a lot of ‘friends’ knew but didn’t want to get involved and are still friends with her. I feel like an idiot. So besides her constant lying and treating me terrible, while leading me to believe it was all in my head, everyone else was being dishonest to me.

Its like there was this big joke going on and everyone was in on it besides me.

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
2 years ago
Reply to  KR

Me too. Everyone knew but me. My friends sided with him as well, so the discard was total.

Chumps, avoid any guy that is in a band. Few are in it for the music.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Reply to  KR

KR,
I’m so sorry. That’s awful. Just awful. What’s wrong with people?

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  KR

I’m so sorry KR. Take your time to heal and fix your picker. I hope someday you find someone that appreciates you for you. I look at it this way, if I’m an honest woman, there’s got to an honest man out there too…, I just have to be selective. I hope you find that honest woman someday and enjoy.

Shelly
Shelly
2 years ago
Reply to  KR

That’s gut wrenching. You feel duped and tricked. It’s hard to imagine being able to trust people.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
2 years ago
Reply to  Givetimetime

I get your concern…honestly, I am a smart person but my default is to believe people until proven otherwise. In some circumstances that is a fault but I choose to not see it as one.

One of my challenges is that I now believe he was a cheater from the beginning so really there was never a “change” …I thought he was a quirky dude (but loved him in his quirks) but since his actions were consistent, my situation was apocalyptic before I considered cheating as a cause.

In the end, I remarried and he is a trustworthy guy. I have chosen to trust even after being burned so badly and thusfar (8 years into this relationship) he remains trustworthy. He is not fond of me telling him that I love this in him, he says it makes him sound dull but after we all suffered what we did, trustworthiness is a huge, shiny thing, not a boring thing

ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
ChumpiestChumpinChumptown
2 years ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

I really struggle with this too. I thought I was a passable judge of character and it seems that I mostly am but when it comes to him I was dead wrong for I guess our whole relationship. So I suppose he was also consistent.

JO
JO
2 years ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

I was never allowed to touch his phone and it was always face down.

He would ask me on his days off if I was coming home for lunch. I thought it was bc he wanted to see me but I guess he wanted to see if he could fuck the neighbor.

I never wanted to kiss him and thought he tasted gross. I was pregnant so blamed my hormones

We never had sex. I also blamed this on pregnancy, I thought he was disgusted by my pregnant self.

I remember sitting in bed alone while he was downstairs watching tv like he started to do every night at bed time and I thought “this is it? This is what my marriage is like?”. I think that was the biggest red flag and the biggest lesson for me. I KNEW it was off. My intuition had alarm bells sounding but I tried to ignore it.

Looking back his narcissism is very clear. At the time I believed he was a good person.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

Trustworthiness is everything!

If that’s dull, give me dull!

Bullshit and Lies
Bullshit and Lies
2 years ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

It is a sad fact that growing up with a FW of a father, I trust no one. No one. Well, except my husband and my mother. But other than, I don’t trust anyone.

When I was younger, I attributed it to me being a bitch.

Now that I’m older and have seen the inner workings of FWF in the last year, I realize that even if I didn’t have facts to back it up at the time, I must have realized deep down how much of a pathological liar FWF is. So I assumed that everyone lies like he does. Lies about everything, all the time.

Unfortunately, this does affect my interest in and ability to get close to people. And I immediately jump to bad conclusions about people and their motives. But I’d rather be considered a bitch than be involved with asshole liars, so it is what it is at this point.

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

True, I am so scared now… It will take time, and I know most people in my background are raised being really honest. At least it’s easier to not be played when it’s your mother tongue, although not necessarily enough.
Congrats on being recovered and happy!!! #goals

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
2 years ago
Reply to  StillinHealing

I will sheepishly admit that I was very briefly taken in (for like a day or so) by prospective interests who turned out to be catfishing…in the online world you must be VERY cautious and discerning. Do not internally give your affection to anyone you have not vetted in person….so in that way, be skeptical.

The person I married, funny enough, never tried online dating in over a decade of singleness. I knew him as a child and dated him briefly when we were 19 or 20.

I have also heard stories of old friends from the past using historical comfort to manipulate people. I was careful and appropriately skeptical but in the end, his story that his wife left (for greener grass that didnt end up existing) and that he was not abusive or a cheater. I found it interesting that he never gave me the “my wife was batshit crazy” line, he was respectful of her. I later grew to dislike her on her own merit (she has been unnecessarily nasty to and about me). He was also very generous with child support / educational funds for his only child. He always did right by her and that was a green flag for me.

Mommytogs
Mommytogs
2 years ago

The only thing I can think of is that he didn’t want me too close to our finances as he was seemingly always stressed about them. I’d see the balance on our checkbook and it was fine. Meanwhile, He was draining his IRA. I’d offer to help create a budget and he’d say no because it was a pride thing to take care of it.
I never thought he’d cheat because one of the first things he’d ever said to me was “if you cheat on me, it’s over”
He did get along with females much better than males.

Coriander
Coriander
2 years ago
Reply to  Mommytogs

Yes! This was the biggest and final red flag -Obsessed with getting his hands on his 401 k and life insurance, and enraged when I wouldn’t provide assistance!

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  Mommytogs

Sneaky SOB.
Funny, mine did the opposite. Suddenly he claimed he wanted me to take care of the finances. He literally went over credit card statements with me line by line, even going as far as to circle the bar and restaurant charges. After D-day I realized he had done it to enjoy duper’s delight by showing me all the charges that were from his dates, but claiming he was “out with guys” or “on a work lunch”.
Horrifying. The extent of the duper’s delight was what clinched it for me that he is deeply disordered.

cuzchump
cuzchump
2 years ago

There were many many signs. He would hold onto his cell phone like it was a lifeline. He slowly started going away with his friend Bill(I never met him). Started out on a Friday night that turned out to be four to five nights a week. Bill had a cabin in the mountains. He would go there for overnight trips. The sudden urge to manscape. He was always critical of me. However, he became more and more verbally abusive. He would keep almost all his paychecks to himself. He became so nasty to our son that he moved out. The constant texting on his phone. One time I picked up his cell phone by mistake and he grabbed it out of my hand. And told me to keep my hands off his private business. Looking back I do not understand why I did not see it from the beginning.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
2 years ago
Reply to  cuzchump

My cheater was in the military and the cellphones he got were always cutting edge and private for work. I was never to touch it. It seemed logical at the time and I respected that but he used it during family outings and on weekends in ways that was excessive for his job.

I wish that I had smashed that fucking thing.

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago

This challenge feels so important, because that’s what I really couldn’t even imagine was possible…

Well, after he was missing too many calls, he would send a text apologizing and saying how much he loves me (gaslighting ????)

The grooming/mirror obsession obviously

But never really doing anything together (but promising it)

Some nasty comments

Sleeping on the couch with bs excuses like needing to fall asleep with the tv on. I mean, if you don’t love your wife, can’t you just tell her?

But getting off on my pain, that’s why.

Not being able to look through his phone, but I never wanted to anyway… It just seemed funny how he would react after asking me to type a text while driving…

It was torture and I would stay because I believed him. When I was pointing out that we weren’t happy, he was reassuring me.

People can act like monsters.

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago
Reply to  StillinHealing

I found an open pack of condoms, and he told me they were old -they were not.
I never saw them again after that.

Tall One
Tall One
2 years ago

This was a subtle little act; she’d suggest women in our life who would make a better partner to me.
“______ would be a better wife for you.”

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

Oh yeah, the pity game.
I also was fed things like “I’m a shitty husband, and a loser”. But I didn’t want him to feel sorry…

They tell half truths to feel better, but still keep using you and hurting you. Bad bad bad ????

I guess now I know to choose an ADULT and not a project, if any.

Tall One
Tall One
2 years ago
Reply to  StillinHealing

That and the hint I should be looking for something better/different myself.

Pretty poor adulting.

PathOfTotality
PathOfTotality
2 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

This is interesting to me, because I told my cheating ex-boyfriend that I’d gladly give him a year to ‘find the perfect woman.’ I was being sarcastic, but it was a response to his frequent criticism of me – I didn’t have the right handbag, I didn’t want to go camping in the snow, I didn’t care about action-adventure movies, etc – you know, all the important qualities in a partner.

StillinHealing
StillinHealing
2 years ago
Reply to  StillinHealing

“I don’t deserve you”

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago

Three years in, he had a female study partner from his junior college class. I came home one day and they were sitting fully clothed at the desk with books open and I got That Vibe. Who knows what happened before I came home (which was unexpected) but when I showed up it all looked innocent enough. Except for The Vibe.

I asked him about it in therapy. The therapy I had requested to learn how to have a healthy relationship and avoid the long-term dysfunctional dumpster fire marriages both sets of parents had. He said there was nothing going on. Beloved therapist told him that if he was attracted to her he was out of bounds.

He said he was not attracted to her. They were study partners because there were no other guys in the class.

Not long after that, I got a call one day from……another guy in the class who wanted to borrow his notes.

We also ran into her at a restaurant where he oddly avoided her like the plague and didn’t even say hello.

A long time later he told me he had been attracted to her.

I did not know what to do. End my relationship because he was attracted? I had no hard proof of infidelity and he was a Nice Guy who went to therapy with me.
I thought I had won the lottery and wasn’t about to throw away the prize because of suspicion.

With what I know now, I would leave. He lied. That’s enough to run like hell.

If I had done that, I would not have my daughter and I am so thankful for her.

Oddly enough, College Girl resembles the Craigslist Sole Mate he finally left for 24 years later…..

Much more I can see in hindsight but this is the first clue I remember.

ChumpyNoLove
ChumpyNoLove
2 years ago

She started getting angry and screaming at me for every little thing. Nothing I ever did was right. She became distant.

Started shaving herself bald which never did in 15 years as I preferred a little over bald.

Started hiding stockings and garter belts. I found new sex toys that had been hidden.

Phone was glued to her 24/7. Everywhere she went it went with her. It went from always being facing upright beside bed at night to suddenly face down and on silent.

Hiding her online status on watsapp. She was having sneaky sexual video calls in the bathroom.

She started changing passwords on all social media. Started wanting to get exercise and go for more walks alone (she was meeting them in their cars). Finding excuses to go to her friends house to “do their nails”. Turns out she would drop the kids off and then go meet him.

Stop talking as much via text at her lunch during work. Turns out she was sneaking out to meet men during lunch.

Had to during lockdown pop into work to get some work ready. Came home all flushed and high from smoking weed. Never smoked weed either but that suddenly started.

Hiding bottles of vodka around the house and getting drunk often. She had never been a drinker.

During our sex life she touched me different. Something just felt off. The way she moved, the way she was touching me and reacting had changed.

I had gotten a vasectomy and she went off the pill and spent past few years telling even our doctors and her friends how great she feels off it for whatever side effects it was causing to then taking her friends pill (I believe her friend knew about the cheating) and now having an excuse that she is taking this pill as it helps.

Screaming at me about how I don’t love her. Accusing me of cheating. Assaulted me whilst accusing me of cheating, assaulted me and held a knife to me about how she would cut my balls off so i could never get it up again if I even dared touch another girl (despite her being caught with dozens of men).

When the kids were around she started trying to provoke me into an argument and sometimes would recoil as if she was scared of me. (So scared of me that despite being caught cheating she kept on cheating).

Started taking the kids to go stay at her sisters every weekend as she needed space away from the stress of our marriage falling apart.

Had hickies on her chest and blamed it on our 7 year old son climbing over her. 3 kids and never once ever had marks like that before.

That’s just some of what I can think of.

coffeechump
coffeechump
2 years ago

He pocket dialed me and I heard him ordering two different coffees at a coffee shop before I hung up. I teased him about it that afternoon and asked him who he was having coffee with. He told me they were both for him! I thought it was weird at the time but never suspected a thing.
I recently found a questionnaire I’d filled out during a pre-marriage course. The answer I’d given to the question ‘what do you love most about your fiancé?’ was ‘his values’.

Emma C
Emma C
2 years ago

I found a pack of cigs under our daybed in the spare bedroom. Knowing our lazy Chief Engineer occasionally took naps during repair jobs in unoccupied apartments, I was going to give the cigs to our on-site building manager. Ex stopped me from going — he didn’t want ‘trouble.’

Fast Forward to one of his company’s events where I noticed one of his employees smoked the same brand. I pointed it out to him and he ‘jokingly’ called me Sherlock.

CC
CC
2 years ago

A SUPER obvious one, but he was grooming his private area despite us having a nonexistent sex life. When I asked why he was grooming he said it’s just basic hygiene.

Kathleen
Kathleen
2 years ago

There were so many red flags I can’t name them all. I couldn’t touch his cell which he started walking around the blocks of our home all hours of the night. He was gone on the weekends visiting “friends “. Eventually not sleeping home saying his friend “Ron” had him sleep on his couch being he lived so far.
The worse is when he came home smelling odd. In my mind I knew he was having sex with the whore but in my heart ???? I couldn’t believe it because I loved him so & being married for 34 years was my life. Wish I threw him out & divorced him years earlier.
Our son is getting married in June so I’ll be seeing him with another woman for the original OW died. It’ll be hard to see him but it’s my son & future wife’s day .. won’t let him spoil it. I can hold my head up high for I was honest & kept my vows.

Attie
Attie
2 years ago
Reply to  Kathleen

Good luck ladies, I’m sure it’ll be ok. I’ve been through 2 weddings since he buggered off and it was ok (I was very nervous though). His latest gf (not an OW) is pretty attractive (I don’t have a partner) so I felt a bit dumpy, BUT she’s as miserable as hell. Ex got wasted at the first wedding (we all knew he would) and I thought he stayed sober at the second but only found out later that he was wasted at that too after we left and gf was pissed off both times and left early! My only thought on seeing him was THANK GOD I no longer have to live with that! But as far as the weddings were concerned, it was ok. Ex even came over to talk to me a few times and we were fine, but gf didn’t like it at all and came scuttling over every time he tried to talk to me. I had a blast and my family and I were having great fun. Ex sat at another table looking thoroughly miserable because, as I say, gf is a miserable sod!

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Attie

Thanks Attie! I never even thought that being cordial would actually be better than total indifference. The ex-fuckwit married his skank…, and I hear that she checks his cell phone all of the time. So wouldn’t that be worse for the skank were the ex-fuckwit to come up to talk with me? She’d also be right there to make sure he’s not coming on to me. Well, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. But I appreciate your input a lot.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Kathleen

Good luck, Kathleen. I’m expecting to also attend a son’s weeding soon and will more than likely see the ex-fuckwit and his skank. My thought is to pretend not to see them at all. The day will be for my son, not the dick. As long as he doesn’t approach me, then I can’t see any reason that the day won’t stay wonderful for my son. If the ex-fuckwit does approach me, I think I will just say, “Excuse me, I have to go”, or maybe I just won’t acknowledge any greeting that he might give me. Who knows what I’ll do. Maybe nothing. Maybe I’m still giving him too much credit. Maybe I’m still nothing to him, and still letting him rent space in my head. But I’m thinking that it’s better to be prepared for any scenario than to be blindsided.

Kathleen
Kathleen
2 years ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

Amazon,
I’ll be taking pictures with the evil Ex but that’s it
What’s important is how we stand proud & show the love we have for our child not our anger towards a empty shell of a man.
I’ll be thinking of you ❤️ knowing I’m not alone. Thank you

NoRainNoFlowers
NoRainNoFlowers
2 years ago

Hindsight being 20/20, I wish someone had told me to pay attention to how my body was feeling. It knew before I did. I had IBS, muscle twitching, a weird pain over my heart, insomnia, panic attacks, wanted to binge eat, etc… My body totally knew and was screaming at me to get my attention. When I finally realized what was going on and kicked him out, every single issue I had went away. Not overnight, but within a year I was completely healthy. So, pay attention to those body cues! If I’d listened earlier I would have saved myself years of trouble and doctor visits.

Chris W
Chris W
2 years ago

100%, NRNF! I have a bad left scapula, left over from a very bad car accident in the very early 90’s. It only acts up when I’m under severe stress (it acted up in early COVID as I was getting ready to fire an employee for stealing).

But, the last 12 months Dracula was in my house, before I found the last affair, it was flaring up like crazy, and I tried to think what unusual stress was I under? The body knows, even if the mind doesn’t want to admit it.

Mygutfeelingisasuperpower
Mygutfeelingisasuperpower
2 years ago

Hmm.

Wanting half an hour of alone time “to unwind” every afternoon when he got home from work (turned out he was calling/texting Schmoopie).

Suddenly putting a passcode on his phone.

Suddenly wanting a laptop for work (He couldn’t even use a computer or type an email!!).

Accusing me of having an affair with the neighbour (whose wife was dying of cancer). I don’t think I had ever even spoken to the neighbour without my husband or his wife present, and I was beyond horrified/mortified. Spent the next few years actively avoiding poor neighbours lest anyone think I was having an affair with him????

After 25 years of buying my own birthday and Christmas presents he gave me a vacuum for my birthday. Weird.
Then for Christmas he gave me a very expensive kitchen appliance ($2.5K!!) Prior to that the price limit was always $40. I should have known something was up! (Later I realised he had been spending between $800 and $1000 a week on affair activities for over a year).

Husband started complaining often about Schmoopie, how she was needy and high maintenance at work, and kept calling him all the time, but he had to help her to become a top performer.
Worked out later that when the complaining stopped they had progressed to bonking. u

Husband had me write Schmoopie’s marketing materials for her!! What a mindfuck.

General Manager Husband hadn’t had a pay rise in 4 years. I kept asking him to ask for one. Turns out the lack of pay rise was because he was pretending to work 5 days, but was actually only working 3 days a week. He was spending 2 full days a week with Schmoopie!!!

Asked me to put youngest daughter in after school care as he often had meetings that went late…yes, it was all lies – he got me to put our child in care so he could stay longer in hotels with Schmoopie, on the days he pretended to work.

We were living in a warzone. Previously angelic children had embraced total teen anarchy. Turned out that our older teens knew what Dad was up to, and were keeping it to themselves. Affected them both horrendously, but neither of them ever told anyone, not even each other. Dreadful times.

So many signs that I never recognised for what they were.

Mygutfeelingisasuperpower
Mygutfeelingisasuperpower
2 years ago

Oh and the time he got a Brazilian “for you, because it makes me look huge!” WTF?!!! Most ridiculous thing I have ever seen!!!

MaisyL
MaisyL
2 years ago

He started going through my wallet looking for receipts, demanding to know where I had spent $X in cash I took out in a given week, why I had needed to go to Starbucks twice, why I had bought a sandwich for lunch instead of brining my lunch, was I hoarding cash for my secret life (ha ha ha) because there never seemed to be as much cash in our checking as there should be. As it turns out, it was all some kind of sick twisted way of messing with me (making the affair more dangerous?). He was in a client-based business and had a lot of expenses for client lunches and dinners etc. He would pay on our joint credit card, pay off the card from our joint checking but he’d CHANGED THE DEPOSIT ACCOUNT for his reimbursements from work — to a secret affair slush fund. There was no money because I was paying his business expenses. While his reimbursements paid his necessary mistress expenses: lingerie, trips to paris, nights at luxury hotels.

My learning: Don’t be an idiot with your finances. Know the passwords. Monitor the accounts. Protect yourself. Don’t fall for the gas lighting — trust yourself to know if your own behaviour has changed.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago

I had no idea he was cheating. In retrospect, I see signs:

He joined a gym and started exercising more than usual.

He got mean and initiated fights.

He accused me of “telling him what to do.”

Sex became less frequent. I googled, “Loss of libido in 60 year olds.”

He got viagra.

He did some different things during sex. I thought he learned them by watching porn—something he often did.

He became more and more quiet. But he was always introverted and painfully shy, so I didn’t recognize the sign.

He suddenly didn’t care if I went away with my female friends, which was a huge change from decades of not wanting me to leave him (possessive at).

He wanted to do a financial plan (making sure, I see now, that he could “afford” a divorce).

His work hours increased dramatically.

He wanted me to get him mouthwash for work. ????

He said he needed time alone to hike He lied that he was just trying to adjust to retirement.

I heard him tell a lie to someone.

He treated me more and more like shit. I got used to the abuse.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

typo: possessive af (as fuck)

While I’m at it, I want to add several more retrospective observations:

He started to fish even more–for hours and hours.

He got a tattoo and didn’t give a rat’s ass if I liked it.

He bought a sporty car (in addition to his Jeep that he used for fishing and, evidently, sex).

He became more and more withdrawn.

He became cheap, getting angry when I bought a gallon of milk–MILK–for our daughter’s family. WTF? They were working late and had run out. We were babysitting our new grandchild.

He became very sensitive and demanding. For instance, he demanded that his sister and her family travel in excess of an hour to visit us because he felt slighted that they hadn’t invited us (him, really) to a bbq they’d had a few days before. His sister had a very good explanation. Basically, my ex bullied her. She caved as I so often did. [Note: She’s a chump, too.]

I felt more alone than I’d ever felt in my life.

I found myself trying to please him, which included honoring his need for “space.”

I think my unconscious brain knew something was up.

There, I’ll stop.

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

“I felt more alone than I’d ever felt in my life.

I found myself trying to please him, which included honoring his need for “space.”

I think my unconscious brain knew something was up.”

All of this stands out to me.

I gave him space and he and schmoopie went on to bond while I stayed out of the way.

The way these monsters manipulate us is evil.

karmeh
karmeh
2 years ago

Bizarre anger nothing I did or said was right . When I questioned it all I got was ” you do it too ”
when asked for examples he walked out of the house .
So if they are picking fights for no reason at all – this is a huge sign

Started brushing his teeth . He had never brushed his teeth in 19 years . He would use mouthwash only but all of a sudden he had dental hygiene.

Mentionitus – its the affliction of always mentioning the AP

Phone now on silent and face down and never letting me touch it . That had never happened before

Texting etc on phone all the time ( yes even in my face constantly texting) then saying it was someone from work you have never heard of about fantasy football/football/ golf/ darts .

The trying to prove how great they are . My Ex always use to say I am a good guy and I use to say I know you are , that’s why I married you . No one that is a good guy has to say they are a good guy he just wanted affirmation that he was wanted/desired/in demand

My number 1 sign is working late/away all the time and never having any money to account for hundreds of hours a month over time . Payroll mucked up / new staff that don’t have a clue/ am getting it next month then next month came and no money and back to anger .

I can look back at all this now but while you live with a bully its impossible to see

Mygutfeelingisasuperpower
Mygutfeelingisasuperpower
2 years ago

He started withdtawing large amounts of cash and paying cash for everything.

Oh and the time he got a Brazilian “for you, because it makes me look huge!” WTF?!!! Most ridiculous thing I have ever seen!!!

Wiser Now
Wiser Now
2 years ago

He brought home a picture of us at our wedding that had been in his office at work because the company was “redecorating.” He had been having ed problems, so got a prescription for Viagra. Tried it with me, once. Once he knew it actually worked, we never had sex again after that (this was about 2 months before I discovered his affair.) He became incredibly mean and abusive to me, blaming me for everything wrong in his life. He began buying those boxes of cheap wine and drinking while driving on his way home from work (we lived an hour away.) He suddenly had more out-of-town business trips. He changed his passwords on all of his email accounts (this was before smartphones.) One of his female co-workers called him at home on Christmas to tell him her brother had died, which I thought was weird at the time (turns out this was his girlfriend.) I’ve learned he was a narcissist, and I now have radar for these damaged and damaging people so totally avoid them.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
2 years ago

So much of this is really familiar, so I will try not to duplicate too much with mine.

I think one big red flag that isn’t specific to the relationship itself was the way he talked about the past. He cast himself as abused in every story, always the bid to generate sympathy and empathy, never accountability. And every ex friend and lover was cast as mentally questionable in his stories, in some over the top way, while he was soooo reasonable and just a simple dude.

Another is that he always had some really off the beaten path interest. I don’t know if it was because he was adopting some other person’s thing or if it was just a tactic, but it always gave him a self-centralizing table topic and functioned like personal branding in a social group. (He does this on social media to this day – – kind of a well-known person in certain circles, so he’s tough to miss if you’re ever in the circle – – and he has changed sexuality, gender identity, faith, ideology, etc. many times over the years in accordance with the current trend of the day. His sad backstory changes with each new blog/city.)

And another was his hatred of anything homey. Hated quilts and crocheted blankets. Hated floral dishes. Hated any homemade art he didn’t make. Hated family heirlooms on display. I mean, I get not liking a style, but hating a homey style? Hating quilts, for chrissake? That’s a lot of venom to give a handmade blanket. Must really, really hate appearing comfortable or family-oriented. (‘Course, now he likes them according to social media, because farms are in now.)

Most significantly, I think hair-splitting in general conversations was one of the reddest yet most subtle flags. He wasn’t just literal. He split hairs after spinning something super hard to shift a thing in his own favor. Like, he’d round 15 minutes up to an hour and provide a complex mathematical argument for why it was true, then find highly stylized ways to explain why his explanation only applied that one time when he was magically the one who it favored.

And he was always, always smarter, the only truly smart one, because clearly the reason you couldn’t understand the complex math was because you were not as smart.

Brit
Brit
2 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

I was married to the smartest guy in the room. Always the knew more than anyone else. He was a walking encyclopedia of knowledge. When someone would mention a subject ex would take it further sharing detailed facts on the subject, going far beyond just common knowledge. Ex enjoyed the attention when people would be surprised at how much he knows and about so many subjects. Ex would then do his fake modesty routine, golly, gee.., I’m not that smart…., I saw it as a control/power issue, sending a not so subtle message that others are inferior or beneath him.

Limbo Chumpian
Limbo Chumpian
2 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Have you looked up covert narcissism? Sounds pretty spot on for him. Always the victim, never recognized for their awesomeness, always the smartest one in the room.

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Limbo Chumpian

I think that is what I’m dealing with.

ChumpyNoLove
ChumpyNoLove
2 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Well that sounds like someone has a major personality disorder. Rather sad way to live though that a grown man has zero sense of identity and who he actually is.

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Painting himself as somehow victimized or the underdog in each scenario. The one that does all the work with no appreciation. It was a common thread with personal relationships and work relationships. So exhausting to hear how unjustly he was treated by work when he was compensated well. Also, the “I work so hard” card, that was utter BS too. He was “so stressed”, “worked so hard”, yet had so much time to carry on affairs.

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

He would have had an aneurysm at my friend Gaby Burkart’s house. The foremost expert and collector of American quilts (she was Swiss and pronounced it “qvilts”) her home was basically a quilt museum with quilts everywhere. The first time I went to her house I thought I had died and gone to quilt heaven. Too bad you could not have taken your X there for a very long fondue dinner with shoe leather meat (Gaby evidently preferred spending money on qvilts) and had loooooong conversations about fabric. ????

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
2 years ago

Nah, screw him, I’ll go with you and geek out on qvilts. Sounds way more fun and worthwhile! ???? That does sound wonderfully amazing.

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
2 years ago

He asked me if I might be interested in someone else. When I answered with a stunned, “No, why would you even think that,” he explained to me that he didn’t mean another man, he meant maybe I was interested in women. Again, when I asked, “why would you say that,” he didn’t have any explanation except that I wasn’t as enthusiastic about him as he thought I should be. (Apparently, the fact that I was the only one working full time and doing most of the childcare weren’t an adequate explanation for my failure to fawn all over him on a daily basis).

A few months later it was clear that 1) another woman was enthusiastic about him in just the way he thought he deserved and 2) he hoped I was secretly gay so that he could pursue a divorce and maintain his version of the moral high ground.

Of course, it is quite telling that he didn’t hope I was cheating on him with a man as that might have reflected badly on his virility or sexual prowess.

Chumpiestchumpinchumptown
Chumpiestchumpinchumptown
2 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

I got the ‘boyfriend’ accusation but its as projection. I also WAS showing him attention but apparently not ‘the right kind.’ Another form of projection. It wasn’t that I wasn’t into him, he wasn’t into me.

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago

Extreme hostility against me, with intermitting periods of apologies.

Chumpiestchumpinchumptown
Chumpiestchumpinchumptown
2 years ago

Pretty glaring obvious ones: an email account that has to be opened in a private search page, text messages about meeting up without preamble, numbers with no names, spending money on ‘friends,’ going on a trip with ‘opposite sex friend,’ prioritizing friend/family of friend, lack of interest in sex, manscaping and changing appearance in midlife which again is understandable but weird, constantly teasing me about having a boyfriend or getting a boyfriend when it clearly annoyed me, refusing to talk about anything (see sad sausage), gaslighting. Etc… If something seems off, trust your instinct. It might not be cheating but it probably means something.

Chumpiestchumpinchumptown
Chumpiestchumpinchumptown
2 years ago

Oh yeah, based on other comments. Constantly mentioning APs. I just thought they were friends because I’m naive I guess. Like seriously interested in anything to do with APs. And phone protection. I often have no clue where my phone is. Keeping his in his pants pocket at home is weird.

Menage a Chump
Menage a Chump
2 years ago

– He blocked his location on his iphone, saying it was an IT security update at work. (Being that he was in IT security, this made sense. The only time I would check his location was when it was getting close to dinner and he wasn’t answering texts. If he was still at work, I would assume he was in a meeting and make dinner for me and our child. If he was on the road coming toward home, I would wait).
– He never worked from home anymore. When he was home, he was always on his phone texting/emailing people (even through dinner), and was working in the study on his computer throughout the evening. (I thought work was just really busy).
– He got mad at me and my child for stupid things. (I thought he was just really stressed. Because, you know, he was working all the time).
– He got mad at me when I asked about bills and finances. Wouldn’t let me participate in them. (He makes a ton of money, but apparently also spends a ton of money. I discovered $80,000 in credit card debt. In his name, luckily).
– He insisted that we go on trips, vacations, dinners, outings with the affair partner (who I had considered a friend) and her husband/child. Even when I didn’t want to, he made me feel bad for not wanting to do things with them. We used to do things with other families, but stopped that… We only did things with her and her family. Multiple times/week sometimes. He always set it up. (I began to think something was wrong with me for not wanting to do things with them. I got a therapist and a psychiatrist, who both diagnosed me with anxiety).
– He, and my “friend” (affair partner), would make fun of me for things. When I would say that I didn’t appreciate it, he told me I was too sensitive. (Another reason I got therapy/meds — I thought something was wrong with me).
– He insisted I get a full-time job, with benefits. Prior to that point, I worked freelance which let us travel a lot, since his job is flexible. He planned and booked all the trips. At least 4 or 5 week-long vacations/year (cruises, Hawaii, beach vacations, Disney), plus long weekends every few months. When I pointed out that we wouldn’t be able to travel because I’d only get 2-3 weeks of vacation a year, and my job wouldn’t be flexible to work from home, he said he didn’t care and that I needed a full-time job.

Karma Driver
Karma Driver
2 years ago
Reply to  Menage a Chump

Oh my goodness Menage a Chump – I’ve been scrolling through all of these posts, recognising most common denominators but yours is the first I’ve read that has really struck a chord.

My X was always getting our family to hang out with my ‘friends’ family – lunches and suppers, cinema trips and outings ….trying to book holidays, trips and involving our children in the same sports activities her children enjoyed (despite our children not being sporty) – so that he could legitimately go on tours and away matches with her. My ‘friend’ was always grilling me about how much sex we had and I remember one occasion she couldn’t disguise her shock when I said we’d had sex that morning…..at the time it made no sense to me. I tried to rationalise her response by thinking that perhaps it was because she wasn’t having sex with her husband. I now know it was because my husband was having sex with her and had told her we no longer slept together.

He was always helping her out doing odd jobs for her and there was one week when he had been at her house most days – because I’d always believed his sad-sausage poor-boy act I thought it was my ‘friend’ who was taking advantage of his ‘good nature’ (!!!) and urged him to charge her for his time (he never had a job and never contributed to any bills).

The killer was a 7hr ‘dog walk’ he went on with her. He said they got ‘lost’ and like a chump I believed him. When I challenged his friendship with her he got aggressive and defensive ‘why can’t I have female friends? She’s the only friend I have. How come it’s alright for you to have male friends and I can’t have female friends’….it makes me feel sick to remember how I internalised that oppression and truly believed myself to be a terrible person for even daring to think he might be cheating.

The only thing that makes me feel slightly better about those missed red flags now is that, to my knowledge, that ‘friend’ is still unaware that she wasn’t the only affair partner he had (I found digital evidence of dozens of hook-ups, dating profiles, gang bangs, grannies and men – it seems any hole was a goal) and one Tuesday soon the karma bus is going to take her for a ride that will put my X’s same efforts to shame.

Christina
Christina
2 years ago

When my ex first started booking up with the ho-worker AP, it was like a light switch went off with him. He started treating me very coldly and just mean. Extremely distant. Wouldn’t look me in the eyes during any conversation. Lost interest in our son who was a year old at the time. Was texting on his phone all. The. Time. Texting and then smiling while looking at his phone. He’d take his phone and go into the downstairs bathroom for an hour at a time and say something like How his stomach was upset. It happened so much I remember genuinely asking him if he should see a doctor. I do also remember asking him on two occasions during those four months before D-Day if someone else had his attention. I did not suspect a full on affair but he had a bit of a history of being overly friendly with his female employees, colleagues and patients. Now as I look back I wonder if that really was his first affair. I think it was his first full out on all levels affair but I see now how a lot of his behavior with other women was boundary crossing. The ironic thing is that I truly trusted him all those years because he seemed like such a “good guy.”

Bek
Bek
2 years ago

The family photos in our home were rearranged after me and my daughter come home from being out of town. Looking back, I believe he took them down when having the OW over then attempted to put them back up.

breads&roses
breads&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  Bek

Have you watched the Netflix series Undone? An eerily similar scene plays out in the episode “Alone In This.” Actually, the entire series struck a nerve. Painful but worth watching.

thankGoditsOver
thankGoditsOver
2 years ago

The Top 4 for me:
– when letting her know that I think she spends too much time with the other guy and simply asking to reflect on where this may lead, she got all defensive and told me she has not done anything wrong after a total of 5 minutes of reflection – I did not even accuse her of anything;
– increase use of her phone, even during family times with the children;
– being out of the house even to the detriment of family time with the children;
– getting really irritable with me about little things and gunning for arguments, to the point that even the children noticed;

Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
Velvet Hammer ????????❤️
2 years ago

The bathroom. With the phone. For a long time. Often.

I’ll bet we’d all raise our hands.

Thank you Chump Nation for all the reality checks today. As I’ve said before, prior to the Internet we’d be alone with all this crap thinking we were crazy. Sharing our stories and reading the stunning similarities has been the ultimate Neosporin for the infidelity injury.

They are laughably totally unknowingly all the same dopey saps.

Susie Lee
Susie Lee
2 years ago

“As I’ve said before, prior to the Internet we’d be alone with all this crap thinking we were crazy.”

Yep, and I was alone before the internet.

I discovered CN years later because of his blow up with out son, and to actually find out how common a whore cheater he was, was helpful to me.

Joyce Hawkins
Joyce Hawkins
2 years ago

How about: 1. Noticing that the gym clothes in his duffle bag on his regular basketball night for 20+ years, suddenly were still folded and still clean when he threw it down in the laundry…I KNEW the clothes weren’t worn and did not say anything (which is completely UNlike me).

2. Finding an EXTRA cell phone hidden in his car, “for work” he said. Yeah.

3. Going into work 2 hours early for almost a year (6 am), “I can get my work done faster when no one is around.” Right. Those are just 3 of the many many signs I saw.

Limbo Chumpian
Limbo Chumpian
2 years ago
Reply to  Joyce Hawkins

My FW wore his gym clothes on a date with the ho-worker. Came home and took a shower. I smelled the clothes later and they still smelled clean. By that point I had other evidence of the affair and called him out on it that night. Later I asked him if at any point they remarked how batshit crazy it was that he was wearing gym clothes on their date. Like no red flags that you guys are awful people? Nope.

Joyce Hawkins
Joyce Hawkins
2 years ago
Reply to  Limbo Chumpian

For the life of me, I still can’t believe the I did not say anything when his clothes were still clean (I smelled them, too lol) after his “basketball” night. After being together for 40 years (married for 36), you’d think I would have said something…but I didn’t. And that was so unlike me.

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago

I missed so many glaring signs, he ensured I was drowning in work it made it easier for him to cheat. Also, if you see signs and confront them on the signs they will stop doing those and get more secretive, do not be fooled that they have stopped cheating.
He had all the classics at one time or another:
-secretive with cell phone, wouldn’t let me even touch it
-joined a gym
-lots of cash around
-increase in “work trips”
-joined a hunting club far away, without cell service
-talked a lot about different females
-would text and call females from home and in front of me, “just work friends”
-sim cards laying all around the house, found them all the time. Never occurred to me to be odd, be warned SIM card switcharoos and hiding= expert cheater level.
-new moves in bed
-new grooming habits
-triangulation with OW, how [beautiful, smart, organized] she is and how I’m not.
-Devalue of me, can’t you workout? can you wear different clothing? can you get plastic surgery? Can I be “nice” to him? Nothing I was or did was good enough, and I tried so hard to please him.
-Catching them in lies about anything, the more I paid attention the more inconsistencies and lies I noticed
-Increasing time spent away from home, and trips didn’t make sense
-Toll road notices in mailbox for places and times I was not aware of him being there
-He would stay vague on his plans and locations, never wanting to be pinned down
-Wanting you to meet the “friend” from work, do not let this give you a false sense of security. Some of them enjoy this power play
-His “Friend” from work attempting to befriend you= aka she’s a fucked up as he is, RUN!
-Areas of the house or his vehicle that he keeps off limits to you
-Clothing in his vehicle
-Comes home smelling fresh or funky (either freshly showered or freshly f’ed) and showering as soon as they get home
– Has a new friend named Bill and he and Bill enjoy frequent dinners out
-Finances are secret
-Starts a load of his clothing when you are occupied or out of the house or quickly when coming home
-When you do travel with him he appears to be way to hotel savvy or you notice a strange confidence
-Weird scratch marks, cuts, bruises and injuries (especially after trips)
-Last minute trips
-Says I told you about this trip last week, and you know he didn’t
-Secret cell phone
-Trust the feeling you get that something is off.

SeenTooMuch
SeenTooMuch
2 years ago
Reply to  Longtime Chump

What do they use the sim cards for? I remember that too but I never changed a sim card in my life so I still don’t get it.

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  SeenTooMuch

They work like a track phone. They can purchase one at Walmart (for example) set up a random phone number. Pop them in and out of an extra iPhone. Hard to trace. There may be more to it I don’t understand. For extra sneaky coverage mine would separate the extra phone and SIM card.

When I discovered this game, I knew he was into some shady stuff.

SeenTooMuch
SeenTooMuch
2 years ago
Reply to  Longtime Chump

Thanks. I remember seeing several and when I asked him what they were for he was vague. He claimed they helped with storage capacity but I never needed more than what came with my phone.
At the end he was using one of my old iphones, saying he was using it to listen to music. Really? But by then I had realized that there were so many lies that I wasn’t interested in any more investigating. The sneaky bastard had accessed my laptop from his work and strange things were happening to my calendar and desktop files. I finally bought a new laptop, a Mac, which I kept locked up until he moved out. As far as I know he never got access to it but who knows.

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  SeenTooMuch

I got the excuse that it came out of his old phone. Then I thought you there are way more of these then phones, it’s didn’t add up. I finally put the whole puzzle together, but it took sometime. He is very sneaky.

It’s such a violation when they get into our electronics. I think at one point I was in a virtual cage, he could see everything and knew exactly where I was. I started changing all passwords and deleting devices. There are still likely some gaps, but it’s better.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
2 years ago
Reply to  Longtime Chump

Did he actually say “females”? I always find that language awkward and objectifying when men use it to refer to women outside a medical context. ????

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

He would say he can have female friends, there was nothing wrong with it. I never thought much about the word “female”. I guess I was more focused on that it made me uncomfortable and he didn’t care.

Limbo Chumpian
Limbo Chumpian
2 years ago
Reply to  Longtime Chump

Female friends isn’t weird. It’s when female is used as a noun that it sounds awkward. Like dehumanizing.

Longtime Chump
Longtime Chump
2 years ago
Reply to  Limbo Chumpian

Wasn’t aware, but I see it now. Thank you for sharing!

Portia
Portia
2 years ago

When you are old enough to retire, as I am, you realize that over the years you have been able to obtain something unavailable to you when you were young. Perspective. Because of your life experience, and things you have learned along the way, you actually see things in a much different light, because NOW, you know.

I came from a dysfunctional family. I did not know what “normal” was. Even though I survived this circumstance, I would have to warn others to beware those who come from dysfunctional families. There is an entirely different learning curve for us. I want to believe in the theory that, over time, the arc of the universe leans toward justice, but I also believe some people never get over this unfortunate start in life.

Both Ex’s had a horrible home life, narcissist mothers, no strong role models, and big empty holes inside which required almost constant attention. They were competitive, and did not play well with others. They always felt “cheated” or unappreciated. They were very different men in other ways, and very different from my dad, but in hindsight I can see these similarities. I accepted them, because I had grown up seeing these traits in my father. My mother always thought she had been a positive change agent in m my fathers life. She could never change his core. Is it any wonder that I also believed I could positively change others? I have seen change, I have experienced change, but the essential component is the person has to want to change. These guys only changed in a surface way, as a strategy to “win” and get positive attention and material things from others. There was never enough kibbles to make them happy, because they didn’t know how to be happy. They looked at life as getting what was due to them, what they desired but did not deserve.

Early in life they learned how to lie with ease, they never had any “close” friends. They used technology to their advantage to enable their cheating. They pretended to do things “for the family”, but they never actually passed on any benefits to the family, because they were selfish. They were very attentive to materialistic detail, and what other people thought, but they didn’t care what others thought. They used this information as a weapon to manipulate others.

All the surface things like clothes, and grooming, and being unavailable are just signals for a new scam of some type. Sometimes for sex, sometimes for money. Never for you, as a spouse, or their children. We were just props, used to make them appear “normal”, we were just useful. It is easy to discard an old model for a newer model, if perceived to be more useful.

My FOO problems were different. I was raised to be useful, to be strong, to endure hardship, to overcome obstacles. I was raised to accept some negative traits, as “just being a man”, and remember, “it’s a man’s world.” I was programmed to believe I needed a spouse, and if I was to be a “good woman” I should do everything possible to assist my spouse in his success, AND to keep the home a safe and welcoming place. I was not raised with the expectation that I would have a spouse who would support me in like manner. It took me a long time to realize I did not believe it should be “all about him”, and that I should enjoy some benefits from my hard earned work skills. When I learned to love myself, and put my effort into providing for me and my children, I learned I could do much better without having to care for a grown man child.

This transition took time, and dedicated work toward change. I had to learn it was not only ok, but better to object to unacceptable behaviors. It took much less time to discern the truth with #2 I had put up with too much from #1, 20 years of my life. The love bombing threw me off, but when it stopped, I had already experienced some of the tell tale signs. My experience on the marriage police came in useful. I was out much sooner the second time.

I am now content, because I learned I did not need a spouse to survive. I can provide for myself. I have been able to do more for my children, with less money, all their lives. I have developed an internal alarm system which recognizes selfish behavior, almost immediately. It is unfortunate that it took so long, and the journey was so difficult, but it is possible to feel good about your life in hindsight. The CL message is so simple — leave a cheater and gain a life! Easy to say, hard to do, but worth it!

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
2 years ago
Reply to  Portia

This is beautiful and I’m sorry I didn’t respond sooner. I, too, am coming to this place, and it is wonderful. I want to give this freedom to every chump. ????

Mitz
Mitz
2 years ago

Fw got a second phone, all of a sudden his employer ‘insisted’ on it. He took it into the bathroom with him, totally new behavior.

He started taking classes in a new religion. (guess who belonged to that church?)

He started to demonize me. Twisted everything I did or said. Ascribed feelings and motives to me that I did not have.

He began to undermine my authority with our children. Started to spoil them to ‘win’ them to him.

He could not go on family trips any longer. Work didn’t allow it for various reason.

Many excuses to be away from home, where he had been a homebody before this.

Stopped helping me with car related issues. Told me to look after those myself from now on. (That one hurt a lot for some reason).

Moggies4
Moggies4
2 years ago

I missed far too many signs, probably living on hopium that my gut feelings were wrong and my wife of 22+yrs wasnt cheating on me
– Always getting groomed to the max to go on a festival trip with the AP, but would never regularly do this any other time.
– Insisting he was just a good guy.. A friend.. And she was just trying to brighten his crappy life by taking him to these festivals and buying him gifts
– taking tablets to delay her period for these trips.. On the grounds no one wants aunt flo there at a festival or on holiday.. But was ok for a family holiday??
– keeping her phone with her at ALL times, changing password regularly
– picking fights with me over the smallest of things..
– going to the gym religiously
– getting insanely jealous anytime the AP got a real life girlfriend.. Only saw this in hindsight
– being on her phone alot even on family days out.. But would give me hell if i pulled her up on it.. Saying it was her mum.. Friend.. Etc
– taking alot longer to do any trips.. Because she would spend an extra 20-30mins chatting before coming home and blaming it on traffic, queues in the shops, any other delay you ciuld think of.

SadKJ
SadKJ
2 years ago

-He seemed stressed; I thought it was from work because he had just gotten a promotion
-Started hanging out with a group of cheaters at work because “networking connected to his new position”
-Lots of before and after work meetings
-Started going in to the office on Saturday mornings
-Stopped holding my hand when we were out together; walked a few steps in front of me while I scrambled to keep up
-We always had the ability to fingerprint into each others’ phones, and suddenly I was locked out of his
-Disconnected from my family; became too busy to help my parents as we always had in the past
-Couldn’t seem to coordinate our calendars to get a weekend away together, or take a vacation
-Stopped normal maintenance on the house and yard; became angry when a normal task came up (hooking up the sprinkler system in the spring for example)
-Didn’t want to spend time with the happily married couples that were our normal social life
-Stopped initiating sex

In looking at this list, it’s so obvious and I’m pretty sure I knew subconsciously. As the months wore on I fell into a deep depression and by the time Dday rolled around I was really struggling. Then it all became so clear. It’s taken me a year and a half to get past the devastating pain and now I’m just angry. What an awful human he was, and still is.

Free from he!
Free from he!
2 years ago

There was an excuse for everything.
Don’t doubt yourself!

Flowers arrive… He bought them for himself.

Woman’s items at place… Belonged to good friend.

Woman posting about her casino visit with him…. He was “tagged in error.” Later found out he lied to her too and asked her to take down the post because his religious group shouldn’t see it! ????

2 lunch containers in his truck… He and male friend had lunch

Phone turned over always…

Sunglasses in car… He found them! Yet they were on passenger far side dash. Not where a driver would place something he found.

Shaving smiley faces around his penis. Ugh…

Eventually tried to explain away a nude photo of a woman on laptop that also had his lower half in photo. Ridiculous excuses followed. The “picture is too blurry to tell who it is!” It was clear as day. It’s a stock photo, I don’t know who that is, it’s old, etc. I knew then he was trying to make me doubt my own eyes and that he was a hopeless liar. It was a married client of his. That was the final straw. Good riddence!

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago

Oh, one more.

He started to wear this one lightweight khaki jacket–a Banana Republic one that I’d bought him–every day, even when he wore khaki pants. He was very particular about his “look,” and had expensive clothes, so I thought it was odd that he would commit such an egregious fashion faux pas. At the same time, I admit that I thought it was refreshing that he didn’t seem to care.

Turns out that the OW said that she got “wet” whenever she saw that jacket hanging on the hook in their office. FFS!!!

LezChump
LezChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

Barf.

LezChump
LezChump
2 years ago

I have mentioned before that my STBX exhibited a lot of “affair-lite” behavior throughout our marriage, even when she was not (to my knowledge) actively having an affair. By “affair-lite” behavior I mean emotionally intense friendships with people she was attracted to. Why did I let this slide? Well, we are both women, and most of our friends are women. So there was no clear, bright line. It would have bothered me more if those friends were local, but most of them were remote, so it was harder to see how inappropriate they were. It was also true that we (as is usual for lesbians) processed things A LOT in our relationship, so I had no reason to think that STBX was hiding things from me (esp. after her first affair in 2004). But she admitted after D-Day #2 in 2018 that she had been pining after her “best friend” for YEARS, and I can see that much more clearly now.

The other red flag I spackled right over is how STBX effectively dismissed all of my concerns. I did sometimes react against her passive aggression, unrealistic expectations, and manipulation, but she mainly got defensive and couldn’t really acknowledge the validity of my concerns. I strongly recommend to others that they frequently do self-checks: do you feel heard and valued in your relationship, independently of whether you have any evidence for specific boundary violations? One of the subtle signs I wish I had paid more attention to, was how STBX clearly valued her “best friend’s” opinion over mine. STBX would share some work situation with me, and I would offer my perspective, and she would dismiss whatever I was saying. A couple or three days later, she would share with me “best friend’s” thoughts on the situation, and I would say, “but that’s exactly what I said the other day!” And STBX would look at me like I had sprouted horns, saying that she didn’t remember what I had said. And, to be honest, she HADN’T heard me the first time, because she was well into the devaluation stage of the abuse cycle. I brought this pattern up in therapy, and STBX said she’d work on it, but I didn’t realize the broader significance of it.

One last thing. Because of the subtle toxicity in my relationship, like spackling over the “affair-lite” behavior, my libido waned. Who wants to get intimate and vulnerable when we feel devalued, even subtly? And then my STBX devalued me further, and eventually justified stepping out for Affair #2 as “meeting her needs.” Her excuse was that her world blew up when her mom died, but later I learned that she had been flirting with the idea of having another affair for YEARS before she actually acted on it. Those were YEARS of devaluation of me, and all the mindfuckery that goes along with it.

So, new chumps and others: please do the frequent gut-checks. It’s OKAY to NOT BE OKAY with your partner’s intense friendships. If you are losing interest in intimacy with your partner, or feel that you are not being heard and valued, then it’s time to head to a GOOD therapist who validates your feelings and will call out defensiveness in your partner. A good therapist will also recognize that disorder is real, and not as rare as most people think. Anytime there have been serious boundary violations in a relationship, like infidelity, it’s important to do at least basic screenings for personality and mood disorders.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  LezChump

Thanks for sharing your perspective on this, LezChump. Many similarities, and I know how confusing it is. Impossible to handle any of the abuse the “right way” when you’re in the thick of it but haven’t yet figured that out.

One somewhat related red flag you just helped me recognize relates to a cheater’s closeness with people you don’t really know or hear much about. My ex left for catering gigs on weekends. He’d tell me plenty about the guys he worked with, and I’d actually known many of them for years, but he never mentioned any women. I came along once, and there was a college girl who was extremely comfortable with and close to him. She was haughty and ignored me completely, giving him sidelong looks, sharing inside jokes and chatting with him about his Instagram… which he would tell me he only used for promotional purposes, not friends (whatever, I didn’t have or follow Instagram and didn’t care either way, but it did strike me as odd that he would have her as all people as a “friend”). This all seemed so out of character, even his persona around her – like another side of him he was intentionally hiding. Our freedom and independence – and loyalty – were what “we” treasured about our relationship, and it was the first time in well over a decade of being together that it crossed my mind he would ever mess around. This was a year before DDay. I don’t think this young flirt was ever an OW, but she might have been. I’m certain he tried. Turns out he was always on the prowl for young women to stroke his ego (and more). There were plenty of these to be found in his lines of work and in his circles of friends/accomplices. This one wouldn’t have been the first, nor the last.

Moral of the story: If your partner is close and comfy with someone they’ve never told you about, beware. A person’s ability to selectively tell stories and manipulate reality to make himself look good and blameless, or to pave the way to trust and easy access, is a red flag. Whether or not they get the girl/guy, they’re setting the stage – and they’re obviously all too comfortable deceiving you about it.

Related to the above realization: Bringing home gifts from work or randomly. One summer when FW worked as a ranger who spent long days in the woods, sometimes with coworkers, he often came back with homemade jam, a travel coffee mug, treats. He said it was from some funny older lady he worked with. I thought, “that’s sweet,” though 20/20, the details were a bit fuzzy. I never met her. He talked about his coworkers there plenty – interestingly, all guys or much older women. Then, after DDay, he told me about how he “could’ve” hooked up with a young woman he worked a lot with then. She’d been really interested but he’d said no. (Implying I should’ve been grateful honored, and as if his impressive restraint also proved his integrity.) Even if he hadn’t cheated (yeah right), it just proved he was secretive and a liar. This repressed memory floated up last night – thanks to the Thursday challenge, no doubt – and I woke up in the wee hours thinking, ‘Huh, the gifts from that “old lady” we’re probably from some young flirt he was screwing.’ So easy for him to concoct stories, and what did I have to go on aside from that? I could have easily lied to him just the same, but why? Where would it have gotten me, what would I have gotten away with, and who would I have been?

At the time this came out, I remember thinking, god, there have been so many guys who expressed interest in me over the years, and his and our friends who knew us well were always commenting on how lucky he was to have me. I was together, kind, fit and attractive – not that it matters – independent, thoughtful, accommodating, funny, smart, and he acted alternately like a grumpy hermit or an absurd, attention-loving clown. Yet somehow he deserves credit for (maybe) not cheating – once?

One last thing:
“One last thing. Because of the subtle toxicity in my relationship, like spackling over the ‘affair-lite’ behavior, my libido waned. Who wants to get intimate and vulnerable when we feel devalued, even subtly?”
I experienced this 100%, and I’ll add that while intimacy and connection was never his strength, FW behaved more and more like an immature slob and did nothing to spark my desire or even kindle affection. I wasted the prime of my life neglected and increasingly unfulfilled and ashamed, and I’m angry with both of us for it. That whole time, that hapless fool was getting off on “easy” women and porn. This is why I don’t think I would feel sorry for him if I ever were to learn he’d suffered an accident that results in castration or waste-down paralysis (and I don’t care how bitter and hateful that sounds). Fair is fair. My usually gentle younger sister even once said she wished she could cut his dick off. She used to love FW like a big brother, and now he’s good as dead to her.

Downtoearth
Downtoearth
2 years ago
Reply to  LezChump

I really appreciate this perspective. It is what I was seeing too… when I was still valued by my X (likely a covert narcissist) I felt really important and my opinion was a big value to him. But the slow devaluing is so hard… it’s like at some moment a person who you were a collaborator in life with all of a sudden has a new life and new attentions and you are just some accessory that was in-vogue last season.

A. Nonnienonnie Muss
A. Nonnienonnie Muss
2 years ago

First tip off and I totally missed it: he would answer questions I hadn’t asked (he was setting up a back story in case anything blew up in his face). Example while we were still in college “there must be a dealer on campus who looks just like me, I’m getting all these people saying “Hi, Ron”….” ok, so he was afraid some chick he’d messed with was going to speak to him while he was with me. Second example: came home one night and he told me a story about a drunk running out of gas in front of our home, drunk breaks in through back door and insists he drive him home….I think he was with somebody and was afraid I might have phoned home on my break. If somebody, anybody, gives you more information than you asked for or more than you need, it’s a sure thing they are lying or trying to avoid discovery of something. These things are from 40+ years ago…and he still hasn’t changed.