Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

UBT: ‘I Am Feeling Sad About This’

sadzDear Chump Lady,

I was wondering if I could donate some extra Lebkuchen for the UBT for this one? This is about the 4th (I think?) email I have received from Fuckwit since telling him I wanted a divorce in May 2020 (still in process).

Brief History of our “Marriage”:
Married 25 years, 2 lovely daughters.

D-Days #1-3: Caught him cheating on me numerous times, in various ways. Each time he swore he “would never do it again!” Years and years of pick-me dancing ensued.

After D-Day #3, he was diagnosed as a sex addict, though he’s still in total denial of that. Found out he had been cheating on me the entire marriage, even before the ink was dry on the marriage certificate! Enter Reconciliation Industrial Complex, smoking the Hopium pipe, and so much more bullshit as he faked recovery.

D-Day #4: 7 years post-“recovery”, I found the (post-vasectomy) condoms — I’m out, I’m DONE!!!!
Six weeks after I told him I wanted a divorce, he was on no less than 3 dating apps. I will spare you and your readers the absurdities of the reasons why we’re still barely out of the starting gates on the divorce.

For reference, his cheating has involved several dozen partners, including friends, prostitutes, co-workers, business and professional colleagues, strangers, etc. This is only what he has admitted to, or can remember. Basically our entire marriage was a complete sham, and I just functioned as the Wife Appliance.

Throughout the divorce process there has been massive amounts of lying, blameshifting, gaslighting, etc., the usual. And throughout the process he has been sending me emails trying to get me to reconcile. I have given him a clear answer of “NO!” every time, but he still keeps trying. This is the latest. Any chance the UBT is up for a challenge? I just can’t…. I’m exhausted by the extreme cognitive dissonance and his massive delusions. Since receiving this latest one, I alternate hourly between raging and laughing at the absurdity of it. Please help… I am a wreck, and I am in need of a massive dose of validation until my next therapy session.

Dear QuarterCenturyChump,

I know “I’m sorry” isn’t enough, but I am really sorry for the immense hurt and pain I have caused you. I will forever and deeply regret my decisions, my mistakes, my behaviors, and I wish I could change them all. It was 100% my choice to choose those things.

I realize it is a long shot, but I genuinely love you, and care for you, and I want to work though this, and make it work. I am in therapy every week trying to figure out why I would ever make those choices, and I am making great headway in my opinion.

The more I work through things, the more I am in touch with my feelings, the more I am feeling sad about all of this. Watching a movie that reminds me of you, brings me to tears. I feel deep regret when I think of how I treated you, and the loss I feel from not having you in my life.

I miss many aspects of our relationship. I especially miss waking up and seeing you next to me sleeping, cleaning up together after dinner, your friendship, and massaging your feet while you talk about what is on your mind.

I ask you to please take the time for us to meet with someone who can help us talk through the issues to determine if there is any way to save the relationship and not put [our daughters], you and myself through the challenges of divorce, and life after divorce.

My hope is that you will allow us to experience a session or two with a different therapist, who would help us to explore if reconciliation is possible, and if not, would help us walk forward in a more positive light. I believe this will be helpful for both of us and [our daughters].

I’m respectful of where you are in the process. I’m not asking for us to stop the divorce process. I’m asking that we try this to see if there is a possibility, or at least have this help us to move forward more positively.


In Gratitude,


Dear QuarterCenturyChump,

Dear God woman, BLOCK him. Wherever you are in this divorce, I assume you have a lawyer? Let that lawyer be your firewall. ALL communication goes through the lawyer. Get parenting software for anything about minor kids. Then change your number, email, etc. Enforce HARD BOUNDARIES.

He tries to go around? You immediately send all communication to your lawyer.

BITCH BOOTS. Wear them.

You’re suffering because you left the mindfuck channel on. Only you can turn it off. He won’t turn it off. You have to DO something and protect yourself. Is that fair? No, of course not. You’re dealing with a fuckwit. But no contact is the path to true healing. He tries this bullshit because it’s worked before. Shut it down.

Now then…  Did someone say Lebkuchen? The Universal Bullshit Translator’s sprockets perked up at the mention of obscure German cookies.

To the job, UBT! A fuckwit has a SADZ!

Grok. How much cookie for that?

You are a very capitalist machine, UBT.

Lebkuchen. NOW.

(I tossed it a snack, like throwing chum to a seal.)


I know “I’m sorry” isn’t enough,

And I’m not even sorry. So what follows will be extra disappointing.

but I am really sorry for the immense hurt and pain I have caused you.

How immense is my sorry? Friends, prostitutes, co-workers, business and professional colleagues, strangers and three dating profiles deep.

I will forever and deeply regret my decisions, my mistakes, my behaviors, and I wish I could change them all.

Gosh, if only there were some magic beans or an enchantment to turn me into a prince and not a serial creepazoid.

I wish I was a better person. If I ever meet a Genie and he grants me three wishes, I promise one of my wishes will be to go back 25 years and stop myself from fucking around on you for the next couple of decades. I wish I could make that wish. I would so waste a wish on you.

It was 100% my choice to choose those things.

Watch me try on my Cloak of Accountability. Whoosh! Watch me take it off by the sixth paragraph. But hey, I chose THINGS! Unnamed THINGS!

It was 100% my choice to risk your health.

It was 100% my choice to fuck your friends.

It was 100% my choice to buy prostitutes.

It was 100% my choice to fake reconciliation, risk your health, fuck your friends, and buy prostitutes. Sometimes all on a single Wednesday. And then I’d lie to your face and complain about your chicken casserole. Because… choices!


I realize it is a long shot,

You got a lawyer this time. Jesus, what the fuck is that about?

but I genuinely love you,

In that screw-a-hundred-people-who-aren’t-you kind of way. But damn, you can really fold laundry.

and care for you, and I want to work though this, and make it work. I am in therapy every week trying to figure out why I would ever make those choices, and I am making great headway in my opinion.

I’m in therapy every week to figure out why I’m such a terrible person, and have concluded that I am awesome and deserve more chances. #greatheadway #mysterysolved

The more I work through things, the more I am in touch with my feelings, the more I am feeling sad about all of this.

Twenty-five years of abusing you and I think I had a glimmer of a feeling. It was sad! I am working through it and trust it will pass like a kidney stone.

Watching a movie that reminds me of you, brings me to tears.

It was the Muppet Movie and when Kermit sang Rainbow Connection, I really lost it.

I feel deep regret when I think of how I treated you, and the loss I feel from not having you in my life.

But I’ve lined up several replacements. Four I met on dating sites and a couple I purchased on Back Page ads. Replacements, however, cost money. Keeping you as my wife would save a lot in legal bills and gives me a veneer of normalcy. Plus you fold my underwear into neat triangles. I regret that my underwear drawer is a mess now.

I miss many aspects of our relationship.

Tidy triangles. Zero accountability. Your continued trusting stupidity.

I especially miss waking up and seeing you next to me sleeping,

Oh good! I can check my cell phone unhindered.

cleaning up together after dinner,

Let this be the foundation of our continued relationship — a memory of me doing a domestic chore I could’ve done unassisted. But instead did with you. #specialchosen1 #Palmolive

your friendship,

Hidden condoms are a token of my great esteem for you.

and massaging your feet while you talk about what is on your mind.

I am not a creepy man with a secret sexual basement, I’m a sensitive listener and friendly masseuse.

I ask you to please take the time for us to meet with someone who can help us talk through the issues to determine if there is any way to save the relationship and not put [our daughters], you and myself through the challenges of divorce, and life after divorce.

In fact, I’m such a GOOD LISTENER that I have ignored your legal pleadings and will persevere in my delusion that sociopathy is something to “talk through.” Is there any way to not put me through the challenge of consequences?

My hope is that you will allow us

US! Yet you persist in being autonomous. An obstinate bitch with uppity divorce demands. How dare you make choices!

to experience a session or two with a different therapist,

If first you don’t succeed, buy a new one. That’s my philosophy with therapists and sex workers.

who would help us to explore if reconciliation is possible, and if not, would help us walk forward in a more positive light.

Divorce so negative. Unlike 25 years of a double life, which is just something you should’ve gotten over already.

Smile more. Walk into the light!


I believe this will be helpful for both of us and [our daughters].

Because taking back a manipulative, serial-cheating fuckwit would model great things to impressionable young women. While you’re at it, stop voting and get back in the kitchen. #wheresmydinner

(UBT: #therewithURdivorcesummons)

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I shudder to think I was once the unsuspecting wife, it was for a shorter time but still produced 2 children. He has a new wife now and been spotted with other women.

    I’m so so pleased I left, or even that she won the dance, whatever. This post reinforces how great it is to LEAVE. Forever and leave them to their patheticness

    • > I shudder to think I was once the unsuspecting wife

      I think about this a lot. It simultaneously creeps me out that he was living a double life so seamlessly, and makes me grieve that I was subject to someone’s deep pathology and had no idea. I just blissfully went on trusting him, unaware that the man I married was doing unspeakable things to desecrate that trust and our vows. The sense of violation is palpable and rocks you to your core, knowing you were not safe with the person you made vows with.

      We are all better off without them. But it’s a total mindfuck getting to that point of realization. Lots of dark stops on the Mindfuck Express train to Meh.

      • The ex was largely a runaway husband once he had saved enough money, secretly at £100 a day syphoned off plus secret bonuses, and got enough equity in the house we bought together, to have achieved his ambitions there. The main affair has never been admitted. I suspect that, whilst the long distance affair that lasted the 26 years of the marriage was with the ex gf, there were others, briefly, over the years when he was cheating on both us. I always thought it was odd to go to choose new glasses with an ‘office wife’ and then send me a picture of what had been chosen, which she had taken. Her husband got her pregnant and moved her to another part of the UK, so presumably he had his suspicions too! I got the ‘I’m profoundly sad’ and ‘I know you think I’m a complete bastard but I do care’ rubbish. This was after I found out about the main affair and was his feeble attempt to manipulate me. He made the divorce process tortuous but I hung in there and did well enough for me. I saved him money by getting full time work at 59 earning more than him. The secret money stash was never revealed, but it was worth forgetting about that just to get rid of his dead weight on my back. As for the main OW, still long distance, I do love the fact that he will still be cheating on her, while she writes him silly poems about ‘telling the world about our love’. He does not care about her. He used her and will continue to use her for as long as she lets him. She’d had two goes with him before we met, and clearly has not learned anything at all. He calls her ‘soulmate’ and her heart melts. I’m free and happy. That’s all I care about. These disordered creatures will say anything, write anything, pronounce anything, to get their own way. They lie. It doesn’t matter why they lie. It’s enough that they do! Quartercenturychump, he tells lies. Stay focused on that divorce and let him deal with his consequences. And with distance you will see that he is far from anything special. On the two occasions when I saw FW in 2020 and even though I was still sad, I thought ‘what on earth did you see in him, he’s horrible’. That made me sad too, for wasted years, but also determined not to waste any more.

        • I gave that realization all the time. “What did you ever see in him?” Heaven knows. I think in my case he was an escape from my FOO. I have a narc mother and couldn’t shake loose of her. In hindsight, it was too perfect to fall in love and get married to finally get away. I jumped from the frying pan into the fire. I thought I was leaving a disordered person behind and then married one.

        • Yep, I rarely saw my ex after we D’d; didn’t see him but a couple times during the legal separation.

          One of the posters here humorously refers to the OW in her case the rat faced whore. I laugh when I think of that because long before CL the first time I saw fw at a grandchild’s event; it crossed my mind that he looked like an overgrown rat. I never saw him that way whole we were together. The last time I saw him was at my granddaughters graduation from high school. That was in 2016. He was even more shrunk and rattish looking. Why did I never see that. It kind of freaked me out, because in my own vanity I thought “do I look like that”.

          But, I have a picture where me and my H and fw and whore are in it, they look like two little fat rats. He more than she. H and I are standing tall a proud. No one could miss the difference in our appearances.

          I believe the difference is primarily that H and I are living a clean and honest life and it shows in our stance. They continued to live in chaos and hurt my son and his family until son put a stop to it.

          I know my son felt that his dad had issues, and that he could help him; but no he couldn’t change him; anymore than I could. Whores face stayed somewhat pleasant as she aged, but fw’s face actually began to change a lot. He also wore this long beard down to the middle of his chest. Looked like an old homeless guy. It was just weird.

      • Yep after I found out, I thought of the many many times I would meet him at the door, give him a kiss. Sit beside him at events feeling so proud because he we were working so hard in the community. Only then did I realize he had left a lot of those work sites, and events to take care of an emergency, pick up some supplies, field a call from the mayor.

        He was just so darn busy. How on earth could I even consider he was an adulterer, he was just too busy.

        But, they hone their craft that is for sure.

      • So well stated Chumparoona,
        Those vows, I took,he took!
        Sadly, I find attending weddings very painful. It is when they get to “ the vows” part.
        That gets me every time.
        Only a chump would understand.

  • My story too. #Metoo
    100’s of conquests in our trail of marriage for 23 years. The massages and back rubs, the affection and gestures, all a smoke screen. The ‘ol hidden condoms in the glovebox signalling how special I was, because he was being ‘safe’. The thoughtfulness! So much I can relate to in this post. If only I could have not been so negative with my boundaries and attempts at holding him accountable. I was just too judgmental and didn’t just love him for who he is. What a party pooper I am! He is so awesome though. He reminded how proud he is of himself. He is successful in business and leadership, except when it comes to our divorce settlement, only then he is a lowly businessman who hasn’t even got the house paid off, and things aren’t going so well (meanwhile winning awards and employing new staff every other week).
    The story changed to suit what I wanted to hear, the lies, gaslighting, the usual alright.
    No wonder I pick me danced for a few years. I was so confused!! ????
    He begged me to come back, I did, then begged me not to leave, I did. Then he got a new ‘Mrs’ (as my kids jokingly call her) 5 mins after I left (who he calls his friend, who works for him, and no one at work knows about. He says it’s casual and she doesn’t need anything from him. He loved rubbing that one in. Imagine being a wife for years and having kids together and ALSO needing your husband. Silly demanding needy me! I could go on. There is more to this story, but you get the picture.
    Now, for me to disassociate from him like I did his cheating! And get a fuckwit free life!

    • #MeToo…. 25 years and 4 kids. When the mask slipped I saw the sociopath-monster he really was. Many affairs that I know of now…. I’m sure it’s the tip of the iceberg. The cognitive dissonance, gaslighting, and blameshifting + sex addiction/Patrick Cairns and ilk + RIC almost did me in….. thank GOD I found Chumplady 20 weeks after Dday 1.

      I was smoking the hopeium pipe hard- trauma bonding is real. 7 years out (4.5 since divorce was finalized) and I can see that, as Tracy/UBT says: “(XH has) persevere(d) in (his) delusion that sociopathy is something to “talk through.” Yes, he likely is a sociopath, by definition. My head still wants to disbelieve that one at times, but what else could “it” (serial cheating, no remorse, pathological liar, abandoning and blaming his own kids) be, if not sociopath?!

      Tighten down the hatch on no contact. Get that divorce and get busy building your new wonderful cheater-and-abuse free life— there are NO do-overs and this is the one and only life we get.

      • Motherchumper99

        I am standing right with to you on this one. You described my life except it was 3 kids and 30 years

        and I would like to add to your, ‘My head still wants to disbelieve that one at times, but what else could ‘it’ be (serial cheating, no remorse, pathological liar, abandoning and blaming his own kids) (and then wailing that HE was abandoned by everyone!!!!!) be, if not sociopathy?

        To whomever initially figured out the NC thing I owe a huge depth of gratitude. It truly is a sanity and life saver move for sure.

        • Mine was 30 years too. Two wonderful sons. My x didn’t use condoms though—he thought the prostitute he was paying $500/visit was monogamous to him. Didn’t stop to think she was a drug addict who’d approached him in a casino and offered to f@ck him in a public bathroom might not be the most loyal of partners. I shudder to think that I’ve effectively slept with every partner she had. My x is a doctor, a germ freak—but not when it comes to sex with hookers.

          • Boggles the mind, doesn’t it ? A doctor no less who doesn’t use condoms with a drug using sex worker.

    • Mine tried rubbing that in too. “They have no expectations of me, they just like being around me!” and smirking at me.

      Well yeah, if you spontaneously combust right now, their lives are not actually affected at all. Oh, they might cry and tell people “One of the guys I was fucking spontaneously combusted!” but that’s the extent of it. They have no children with him, they aren’t financially intertwined with him in any way, nothing he does affects their credit, etc. If he goes to prison, maybe they can land themselves an interview as the girlfriend and get some attention but that’s about it. I’m actually affected by the shit he does. Our son is actually affected by the shit he does. Of course we have expectations of him.

      The really funny part was that in the same exact rant where he was condemning me for daring to ever hold him accountable or have any expectations of him, he was also insulting me and our son for failing to meet his expectations and being such huge disappointments to him. It hurt at the time but now I realize how pathetic and ridiculous he is.

      • ““They have no expectations of me, they just like being around me!” and smirking at me.”

        They are likely getting money from him in the form of gifts, dinners etc. These fuckers spend a lot of money on whores, whores always get paid. If they are honest whores, they present a bill and get paid, if they are back door whores, they get gifts, dinners, help with expenses.

        Whores be whores. They will get paid.

        Yes I am sure there is the anomaly of the rare women who foots the bill for everything, but I believe it to be very rare.

        Yes I know women cheat and spend money on their whores too, I come at it from the husband with female whores though.

        I ran three years of credit card history, whore got paid plenty. She wasn’t there for his startling physique or classy demeanor.

        • Right on the money!!!!! No pun intended.

          The FW I had the bad fortune of being married to stopped paying for anything for our family and pled poverty. While he told his kid he couldn’t afford to buy him breakfast, he was offering cash to whore and gave her a car that he was paying for.

          Whores are going to get paid, no doubt!

        • Yes, this is true. I found out he was paying for at least one of them to have a phone on our phone plan. Money was always tight and I couldn’t figure out why.

          That makes him even more pathetic, really. Like dude, they don’t like you, they like you spending money on them. He’s the sad John who thinks the hookers actually care about him. lol

          • Mine is the dude that thinks the 29 year old girl loves his 52 year old self for his wit, charm, and lack of good looks. Pathetic.

        • Oh, yes the whore gets paid. I’m on the 9th month with no support but the hooker gets her $500, her gifts (clothes, sex toys, meals, groceries, gas, nails, eyelashes, hair, shoes AND a car). He’s deluded enough to think she loves him—yup a 35 year old drug addict with two small children loves a 54 year old balding man with poor social skills. But he’s got money. Never mind he’s older than her father… yuck.

    • I have SO MANY things to add to this thread but just time right now for this one:

      My gay husband. Closeted. Did not even like me when we got married. So much awful and lies and blame shifting after discovering. 30 yr marriage and 4 kids. In divorce hell with 60K legal debt (!!) after more than 2 years of separation because he insists it must go to trial because I should have pretty much nothing in his opinion.

      One night I said to him: “you have treated the people you work with better than me. More honest and more kind.”

      He snuffed and said, “Well the people I WORK with don’t want to know about my sexual SECRETS.”

      This is the big expectation they cannot tolerate. It is not FAIR that my wife wants to know about my sexual secrets. She is so demanding ! She is SCARY! Well! I could say a lot about her.” And then they do.

      So as we pick me dance to fill all the expectations they impose on us, because they are just getting equal to our big old expectations, we simultaneously express fewer and fewer expectations of them because they tell us how demanding we are.

      But we never know in the first place that they think of us as meanie-demanding-expectation spouses for things we can never do anything about. Because we do not know what they truly want hidden.

      • Can you sue him for fraud ? He was knowingly in the closet for years and misrepresented himself.
        I met two women years ago at Club Med who had divorced their respective, closeted husbands. Sheesh

  • Gee did we marry the same dude? I couldn’t even read that ???? seriously, until they actually list out every single fucking thing that they did (not this “for making you feel bad” bullshit) they aren’t sorry. You know you’re never getting that.

  • I received a very email.
    “ I so sorry for the immense hurt and pain”
    That’s a politicians apology when being caught .
    It’s an apology by someone with no empathy whatsoever. They remember what an apology is supposed to sound like and feel incredibly clever.
    I hate those people. They will never understand what they have done .

    • ““ I so sorry for the immense hurt and pain”
      That’s a politicians apology when being caught.”

      Yup, pretty much!

    • “They will never understand what they have done.”

      It took me so long to figure that out because I thought I’d married someone who could feel something other than his own erection.

      If they could understand the kind of pain and destruction they’ve caused, they wouldn’t have done it in the first place.

      This is why we don’t believe their bullshit apologies and we go NC. These people don’t have the depth of feeling that we do. So, if they’re trying to reconcile, it’s not for love or because they want to “save” their marriage. It’s because marriage is the better choice for them at *this* moment, which is exactly what they were thinking on their wedding day.

      • ” It’s because marriage is the better choice for them at *this* moment, which is exactly what they were thinking on their wedding day.”

        Please new chumps don’t take them back. I did and he destroyed me for a second time. It only took a week for me to get it thankfully, but still I had let him use me again.

        If for some reason you really really think you want to give him a chance then insist he go to counseling for a while and show you that he is safe, before you let him back in that door. I say this because if I had done that, he would have refused and I would have known he wasn’t sincere. But in my pain and loneliness I quietly let him come back. I didn’t want to hear that, I just thought I could reverse time I guess.

        The only person I told that we were going to try again was my son, he said and I quote “mom be careful, dad is messed up” I wish I had listened.

      • It’s not that they don’t understand. Truly. They see your pain. It’s that they don’t care. It’s all about them. The only person that matters is them. If they were experiencing the same kind of pain, they wouldn’t say, “Oh! So this is the horrible pain that I put Chump through! Now I understand!” They don’t care who has pain as a result of their actions. Not their kids. Nobody. It’s all about them and their feelings of entitlement. In a sense you are correct that they will never understand. They don’t have the depth of character to care. This is why I believe they’re sociopaths.

  • Hun, divorce hurts him in the pocket. He’s trying to manipulate you into stopping.
    Correct answer to this kind of crap is to block him. But I’d be tempted to answer with ‘whatevs.”
    Don’t let him mess with your head. Healing comes from no contact.

  • You are doing so well, QuarterCenturyChump! Kudos for your decision to send the jackass’s latest missive to CL rather than taking any of the bait.

    There isn’t a hint in that letter about what might be good for you; it is all about him and how you can make him happier by giving him more chances, accepting his faux apologies, trying his therapist, etc. And that tells the whole story.

    Leaving him in order to live a life free of lies and abuse is the best choice you can make for your two daughters. You don’t mention how old they are, but I hope you have some sort of therapy lined up for them (and you) because it is almost a sure thing he will be switching from manipulation of you to manipulation of them as consequences set in. They are likely to be very hurt by the discovery that dad is a cheater (and you need to make sure they know why you are divorcing without sharing inappropriate details). And they will lash out in pain–probably at both of you at different times and in different ways.

    But nothing about starting a new life is as hard as living with this jackass has been. You will feel so much better a year from now! Thank you for sharing his ridiculousness.

  • LOL! “You got a lawyer this time. Jesus, what the fuck is that about?”
    I love the UBT, thanks for keeping him running through covid CL.

    What’s really sad (pathetic) is that I always feel a little envious that other chumps have cheaters who want them back. I found out my XH had been cheating throughout our marriage after he abandoned me and our three boys for some slutty ‘soulmate’ . When I read these posts I feel so crap about myself that he didn’t even want to pretend to regret what he’d done.

    • You are not alone

      I never got a fake apology or a let’s work on this I was stone cold abandoned . Never seen or heard from him since DDay ( 2.5 years ago)

      I use to get upset and think well at least you got a text or an email I got ghosted but it’s best never to hear anything from them

      • I agree. The night I confronted my husband, he got right in my face and screamed “I love her AND I DON’T LOVE YOU.” We quickly divorced and he moved out of state to be with his love.

        It took me close to year to realize what a blessing this was. No fake attempts at reconciliation, no pick me dancing, no needless, drawn out pain or multiple D Days. I was given the blessing of no-contact which allowed me to focus on myself and my healing.

        • He loved her so much that he kept her as his mistress and a side chick for I assume a long time? And only divorced you after you confronted him? Where is Shakespeare to immortalise this love!

      • My fake apology from gay husband included “I really am attracted to you. Except for when you were fat. That wasn’t doin’ it for me.” Maybe I was fat in the past from all the stress of gaslighting. But I was thin and stylish and really looking good for about 5 years before D day.

        Not long before DDay he got really cold toward me on a beautiful day. “Oh, then I will tell you straight. Just what it is. When I walk out that door and shut it behind me. Then you will know. Just what it is. When I walk out that door. And shut it behind me.”

        Like he had been fantasizing about how hurt I would be to learn the truth. That is very troubling.

        And then later he told me that during that time he was thinking he would come out, but then he didn’t want to give up his lifestyle.

        And then months later after lots of disorienting livenomning when I wandered around dazed saying “why now” a lot, when I months later learned more about what he had done and how much he had lied, I said “I really will never be enough for you.” And he said, “what is enough,” and then, “I think I can be happy with you now.”

        And now I’m never ending divorce hell, I think it might have been better to have the whole “walk out the door and shut it behind him” thing. That would have at least been honest. That would have been better than a man using the legal system as a weapon to punish me for not staying in his land of make believe.

        Fake apologies. “So sorry, dear. I am gay. And I was never going to tell you. Because you were fat. And difficult because of that hysterectomy and leg injury. That is why I am gay. But will you help me now to work through my pain? No one is as patient and forgiving as you. I owe you my life.”

        Tak about blame shifting. Sociopath.

    • TLoftC,

      Don’t feel bad that your cheater has never wanted you back; neither has ex-Mrs LFTT. We were married for 26 years and she left me and our three kids to be with a drunk loser ex-boyfriend of hers from years back.

      In doing what they did to us our cheaters have shown dogsh*t judgement. Never judge yourself based on what a disordered person thinks of you; your cheater clearly doesn’t know the value of what he threw away.


    • I know exactly what you mean about feeling envious. I’d just say

      (1) Many of the pleadings and promises come in response to cheaters being suddenly outed, throwing their world into turmoil. Their reaction (understandably) is to lie and beg to preserve the current situation, since the soft landing hasn’t yet been arranged. The protestations of love and promises to change are ploys to buy time while they engineer an exit. If (as happened to me) they manage to line up the next victim while we’re totally unaware (super solid gold chump trophy for us!), they’re much less likely to engage in this performance. I suspect the determining factors in the walk-away scenarios are more access to money (XW earns a decent 5 figures and AP has a million-dollar inheritance) and technical knowhow (XW is PhD physicist and AP is professional IT) to achieve secrecy, rather than anything to do with the chump him/herself or the marriage they’re destroying.

      And (2) Take a look at what happens to the people who give in to the false pleadings and reconcile, only to find out later that it was all lies. That’s a truly horrible situation to be in. Being coldly abandoned is rough, to be sure, but losing an extra chunk of your life by believing him/her when you should have known better – that’s not an improvement.

    • I understand how you feel because I felt the same way. However, I came to understand (by little bits my kids said) that OW is dancing the pick-me dance jig harder & faster than I was ever willing to do. She will lick his boots to prove she’s better than me (and even declares once in a while that “this is better than your ex-wife’s”). So he triangulates my ghost with her to manipulate and control her. Is that a guy anyone wants? Anyone? You must understand this: it’s not about you, it’s about the FW finding someone who licks his boots more. Do you want to be a boot-licker? I certainly don’t. A FW will always go with the biggest boot-lickers and if they do come back, it’s because they couldn’t find a better boot-licker than yourself. A boot-licker could even be the person who makes the FW look good or respectable in “look at me, I’m a wonderful family-man or I have a good-looking wife or a rich or successful wife” way. Once I got over the initial trauma & gained some understanding, I realized the FW never tried to come back because I’m not very good at boot-licking….and in a mind-fuck kind of way, it was his way of complimenting me.

      • Much better choice, to put on your Nancy Sinatra boots.

        These boots are made for walking, and that’s just what they’ll do . . .

      • Yep, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. My XH is definitely the stupid prize the OW “won” for playing the stupid game of sleeping with a married man. Right before I moved out he asked me for a flat screen TV as a “parting gift”. His flat screen TV needs are the OW’s problem now. She better get on that; after all we all know what cheaters do when their “needs” are not met.

    • I’m in limbo land with that too. Found out about prostitutes (10 months post D-Day) and don’t get it. It’s been half my life with this man and he seems ok just not being with his family. He immediately went to therapy, reads the books I tell him to. Actually did what it said-wrote me a letter detailing what he’s done and how he’s hurt me. ????. Just know not everything is in it though.
      When I ask what he is doing and what he wants, he mopes around or calmly whispers he wants the family back together. He wants the kids, not me. Feeling overly pathetic that I don’t just leave. Worried about him though. How genuine is everything? The lack of enthusiasm or emergency to fix the family is just telling me we are an obligation he signed up for and not what he wants. Really want the pain to stop!

      • The pain will BEGIN to stop when you file for divorce AND stop monitoring his “progress” toward change. If he lacks enthusiasm or a sense of emergency to “fix the family,” aka “stop fucking other people,” then you have your answer. He likes himself the way he is. He’s not all-in on the marriage.

        File for divorce. Get the house, get custody, get child support and spousal support if you can. Start working on your own life and turn your attention away from him and his sickness.

    • I was one whose X begged, pleaded, wrote me cards saying he was “going to dedicate (his) life to redeeming” himself in my eyes….yeah that faded fast. I used to read posts here and be envious of the ones whose partners just LEFT, left them alone. That was my bad for allowing him to continue to contact/mindfuck me for almost a year after Day. I still went through with the divorce, and finally went no contact – but I have learned a valuable lesson here, it’s the contact with the mindfuck that makes it worse, emotionally. All his promises of change etc, while ego stroking at the time, quickly (after a few weeks) faded as he developed a new narrative (all my fault) that I imagine allows him to sleep at night.

      I understand the pain of being abandoned, but I want you to know this grass was NOT greener. For me. No Contact = Peace

      • This ^^^.

        After d-day 2 I’ve said to him, MULTIPLE times, “If you didn’t want me you should’ve let me go.” He always responds with, “Nooo, no, no, no.” Right. Can’t allow me to move on or anything. Not while there is fuckery afoot!

        I could’ve been on a path to healing right now if I hadn’t bought in to the pick me dance and more lies on top of lies. His confession on d-day 2 included him admitting that he did not, in fact, want to work everything out despite him spewing to me that he did. It was all BS. He DIDN’T want me then. He wanted HER. Which is why he continued pursuing her and she him. ALL of it was a lie. I spent almost a year Knowing in my gut that he was still hiding shit and he finally admitted it. But NOW! Nooooow he’s, “In it for the long haul.” NOW he realizes it was a bad idea. NOW he apologizes and begs me not to leave. He didn’t beg last year. He gave me gaslighting and ultimatums but no real apologies.
        Know what else? NOW his OW has a different boyfriend and she told STBX to fuck off because he showed his true colors and was really nasty toward her. So, of course, NOW he’s in it for the long haul with me. ???????????? Too bad, so sad, Fuckface.

        And NOW? I know he didn’t want me for the entire past year. While I was losing my mind and sleep. Not eating. Dealing with stomachaches and nausea and complete and total mind fuckery.

        Please don’t be envious for the ones whose FWs asked or begged to stay. They’re all fucking lying and still trying to control their own fucked up world. None of it was real. The entire last year of my life was completely wasted and seriously affected my health. I wish everything had just ended when I first caught him.

        Hugs and hang in there.

        • “They’re all fucking lying and still trying to control their own fucked up world.”

          Absolutely, my fw came back and I was elated. It lasted a week. Two episodes of horrible sex, and then he started treating me like shit. Turns out all he wanted was back in the house so he could access our car (I had temp custody of the car) for his politicking. He was evidently still trying desperately to save his recent promotion, and that is how much respect and regard he had for me as a human being, much less his wife.

          Good news is he got busted, and put back out on the street; but he did use me and my emotions to try and prevent that.

          Except for that rare unicorn, they always want something and it has nothing to do with wanting us back.

          • “they always want something and it has nothing to do with wanting us back.” This, exactly. There’s something they want, whether it’s image management, the other 1/2 of the assets (my X FW quickly converted from “I’ll do anything to make this right” to “what makes you think you deserve 1/2 of anything?”), or anything else – it’s for THEM. As CL says in the LACGAL book, they are not on the same team, and they are not our friends. It took me awhile (sometimes even now I still can’t believe it, but that’s trauma bonding for you) to get there, but I know we all do eventually – Tuesday.

    • Never wanted me back either. It is a particular knock to the confidence. I was ‘so awful’ that a twice failed relationship was better than 26 years with me. I got ‘even our holidays weren’t that great’. And my answer ‘what, the Galapagos weren’t that great?’ Cue sad face! These creatures are deranged. Who would want to be them, joyless, empty, shallow, carcasses. Good luck to their new partners who no doubt believe themselves to be oh, so special. These new partners are getting the delights of the FWs when they are older. It will only get worse. They do not age well.

      • Omg, I got “Russia was an awful trip because you ruin everything.” Could have fooled me because he looked like he was having a blast. Thirty four years together and he threw it all away on a hooker. She plays him like a fiddle and he has no idea how completely stupid he looks. I moved across the country; my old friends have seen him out with this scary looking creature of the night. They laugh and laugh at him.

    • Look at it this way; he probably realized you had seen behind the mask and it was useless to continue to pretend. At some point they get tired of faking normal.

      Get rid of the idea that whether or not they want to eat cake says anything about you.
      If they do want you back, it isn’t about you, the human being. It’s about your usefulness as an appliance. Once you internalize that it truly is not about your value as a person, the fact that they want to continue playing you is not flattering. It only says they think you’re easy to fool.

    • Klootzak has never apologized for doing anything. It’s all my fault. He even blames me for not forgiving him though he has never asked for forgiveness. He has never felt one bit sorry for the pain he has caused me. It’s my fault for not working out more. It’s my fault because my desire for us to make plans to do things as a couple is “smothering.” It’s my fault because I don’t earn as much as he does so he could retire at age 47 like he wanted. Yes, after cheating on me for almost two decades, I was supposed to keep working and support him while he retired to do nothing. He hasn’t left and thinks I am supposed to be grateful. Not once after a D-day did he express regret and apologize for putting my health at risk and for how he abused me emotionally. He only goes on about the effect on him of getting caught. Boo effing hoo,

      I don’t know when he will finally up and leave. But I know when he finally cuts loose – assuming I don’t wrap up my plans and file first – there won’t be any hoovering. I’m just some horrible wife object he graced with his presence. I will go NC as best I can while sharing the child, but a decade plus on when kiddo goes to college, I will be much more free of him. I will consider it a blessing that he will not continue to attempt contact after that. He will try to be controlling in the guise of being a caring father but once the child is 18 and he doesn’t have that excuse to nose into my business, I look forward to finally getting some peace. What he thinks of me and if I am worth trying to keep around, IDGAF.

      • I hate that you can’t get out of this situation now. Your youth is being wasted on this man.

        I didn’t know my fw was cheating for years, I wish I had known. I can’t say how quick I would have left, because you just don’t know what you don’t know. I do believe that even if I had stayed for a couple years, I would have gone to work full time instead of sticking to our plan of starting full time when son started his senior year.

        I know you are making the best decision you can for you; but I hope you are able to escape sooner rather than later.

  • I feel like the Bitch Boots can be applied in many contexts:

    – Cheating spouse? Let the Bitch Boots carry you to a good divorce attorney.
    – Bad job situation? Let the Bitch Boots get you somewhere you’ll be appreciated.

    I know there’s more, but I figure I’d be repeating myself.

  • QCC,

    It’s funny that they always (and I mean always) want the benefits that come with being a relationship with you (“I miss the …. etc etc), but without ever conforming to the norms of behaviour that one would associate with being in a relationship with you.

    And you shouldn’t care whether your cheater thinks that they are making “great headway” in therapy; judge them by their actions not by what they say.

    You’ve got this.


    • And they so often express their “regrets” in terms of their own desires. For instance, “I miss X, Y, or Z”; rarely, “You deserved A, B, or C.”

      Haven’t counted but pretty sure this cheater’s overture averaged more than one “I” per sentence.

      • There’s the tip-off. And the “I” is never specifically about the harm or damage they’ve done. He’s feeling sad about “all of this” and his “decisions,” not about any specific offenses against his wife and family.

        • But also happy to be specific about the tiny bitch cookie crumbs (helping with dishes, rubbing her feet, etc.) that he threw her way. Non-specific offenses + specific bitch cookies = fuckwit who will never change.

      • Nomar,

        I’d add that they also express “regret” over how the consequences of their actions impact them …. and yet never acknowledge (let alone express remorse for) how their actions impacted their spouse and children.


        • Absolutely. I truly believe they have a very limited ability to “get outside themselves.” Which is, essentially, sociopathy.

          • Nomar,

            You might add a side order of narcissism to that if you like.

            Or (if you are Ex-Mrs LFTT), best make that a side order of narcissism with an extra order of narcissism and a topping of grated narcissism to go with your sociopathy.

            I don’t miss her one bit and neither do our kids.


  • Yep – Time for the bitch boots! BLOCK HIM! Want to get your divorce moving along? All communication goes through the lawyer….ALL OF IT! He will get tired of raking up bills/paying for lawyers and move on with it.

    If you have underage children, get a parenting plan done immediately. Get with your lawyer and put the highest restrictions on it (he gets to see them every other week, he can not have your children over night unless he has their own bedroom in a safe environment and sidepieces can not spend the night while children are there, etc.) Because he has ignored moving forward with the divorce and keeps trying to go around by emailing you the sad sausage letters, tell your lawyer you need to get something in place ASAP to protect the kids. Get the Our Family Wizard app to do all scheduling of kids and any communication. Do NOT text schedules or any communication with this fucker! Only Our Family Wizard or (on the rare occasion) email. You might be asking Why? Because in a court of law they will only accept communication that has a true TIME STAMP (date & time). If he is sending you this floweredy bullshit now….I promise you it’s only going to get more colorful and you want to able to use every bit of it in court!

  • QCC, the subtext of him mentioning your daughters is that if you don’t reconcile and they struggle as a result, it’s YOUR fault. That is cruel and manipulative.

    If you’re ever confused about whether or not an apology is genuine— with your husband or anyone else— is that if the apology is proceeded by a request (or in this case, a demand that’s gift-wrapped as a request) you can say for certain that it’s not.

    • “QCC, the subtext of him mentioning your daughters is that if you don’t reconcile and they struggle as a result, it’s YOUR fault. That is cruel and manipulative.”

      I saw that too and also thought that was gross: “If you really want what’s best for our children then you’ll let me back again to keep doing whatever I want.”

      Run. And keep on running.

    • I also see that he’s been shopping for another therapist he thinks will be better at dishing out the Sex Addict mindfuck. In an effort to save my marriage, I stuck my head in 4 different CSAT blenders. None of them could quite get me over my hesitation with their lacking empirical data, nonsense promises of “your marriage can be better than ever”, victim blaming look at my Family of Origin baggage and dangerous secrecy “don’t tell anyone about this.” The last CSAT was such an over the top bitch when I questioned her alliance to Dr. Fucktard and how she could be sure he wasn’t a true sociopath that I became completely secure in my decision to dump him.

      QuarterCenturyChump: You’ve endured a special kind of crazy with this type of cheater. Please don’t ever stick you head in the blender of a therapist of his choosing. Hugs and healing to you.

    • Agreed, I saw that too. Don’t fall for the “let’s do what’s best for the children line”. My FW figured that’s what worked for me. I fell for it early on and agreed to a few couples therapy sessions where I had to sit and listen to how amazing he was.

      This letter is just a sign you’re on the right path to part from this asshat and he is realizing he is about the face consequences. Take it as such and stay the course!

    • ^^THIS!!! My X FW loved to tell me that HE wasn’t the one filing for divorce… even after divorce finalized, he loved to throw that one at me, that he’s not the one who wanted the divorce. I believe that falls into the “It’s not what I did, it’s how you responded to it” narrative.

      • I shut down that line of blameshifting: I told the FW that he ended the relationship the first time he texted her, and with the year of fucking her that followed. But I was the one with the balls to finalize the ending.

        He tried to sad-sausage my dumping him as the “worst trauma of his life” in social media posts. Meanwhile I told everyone in town the truth. Messaged a few mutual friends. Then blocked them all.

    • Yes, I got this too from exFW. He was abusing us and I left for our safety. Mind you, he was never home because he was out with the dumpster and when he finally decides to show up at home – he was horrible. Cue a month or two before he got divorced during wreckonciliation – he is “crying” about us being together and crying victim that I took his son away from him and that I took his child from spending time with his dad. Riiiight – he was never home and he told me hated the “routine” of family life and didn’t see the need in spending time with us since he “saw” us everyday or to attend any of DS’s extracurricular activities. I’m so glad I am Free of him.

  • QuarterCenturyChump,
    You are mighty — keep going! Your experience sounds a lot like mine, right down to the fact that he was on dating apps shortly after you said that you want a divorce. I was married to a lying cheater for 30 years, and have been blissfully divorced for four years now. My ex also created dating profiles immediately after I let him know I was serious that I wanted a divorce, All the while emailing me and texting me long messages about how he wanted us to grow old together, how he loved me, etc. He even sent me one of his dating profile pictures and asked me if I didn’t want to reconsider and commit to “this guy”! The delusion is stupefying.
    You’ve got this! Keep being mighty, be the sane parent, and trust your gut.

    • I wanted to emphasize that a man who truly wants to save his marriage is not on dating sites. A man who is on dating sites wants to date.

      • Maybe I’m revealing my age / ignorance here, but … who dates these people? Are they lying about their situation, or are there actually people who look at a profile that says “separated from my spouse last week but we still live in the house together” and jump at the opportunity?

        • Yeah, i wonder about that too.

          But, really what’s the difference in a dating site and at work. The whore my ex was with for several years was his co worker, in fact he had secured her a job as his direct report while hiding his relationship with her. She knew he was married, I don’t know how many other whores there were, likely several they all had to know he was married. He and I both were well known.

          It was before social site came into existence, but reality is many folks know and they just simply don’t care. In the case of the whore he married, there was no doubt by anyone that she was after a meal ticket. He wasn’t her first married man rodeo. She had latched on like a dog with a bone and she was not going to go away.

          She had finally found an idiot that put her in a position of power. I still get a laugh when I think of how stupidly he threw away his dignity and everything he had worked for. Mr. I am always in control, fucked himself over royally.

        • Some people lie about their situation:

          -Separated= I’m actually a cheater and my spouse who I live with and have sex with doesn’t know I’m dating
          -Divorced= sometimes means the divorce is final, often means they have file for divorce, but it isn’t final yet

          My wonderful hairdresser is dating a separated but not divorced (older, because of course) man. She says it’s because she’s still healing from her last breakup and it keeps him at arms length. I wish she would focus on herself and not date emotionally unavailable men.

        • These folks are accomplished liars and actors. They take bits of truth and weave them into their web of lies. When I was on my second shift at the marriage police, I found a picture of the love bomber in front of my home and car indicating they were his. He talked about being so busy at his job. He didn’t have a job. He had a hobby/self owned business which did not make money. He knew what potential women to be abused wanted and needed, and played to their weakness.

          I met him after my exit from a 20 year marriage where I had not felt loved for many years. He promised love and devotion. I did not think about the economic disparity because I was willing to compromise and share. He was willing to stage a backstabbing takeover of any of my assets he could exploit.

          When we are damaged by an abusive relationship, we just want a cure for the pain we feel. Our vision is not clear. We want to believe. We are perfect targets at this point. That is why time alone, and self awareness, and healthy boundaries are so important. When we take our time, and watch actions instead of believing in words, we do better. I was never prepared for living with a lying fuckwit. My FOO was so convinced their dysfunction was “the will of God,” they did not hide their crazy. Then I dated and married men who were con artists. It took two to convince me I needed to fix my picker. It wasn’t that I was to blame for their lies, it was that I did not even question whether or not they were liars. I wanted to believe their lies were true.

          The vulnerable underbelly is exposed when you seek love — especially if you are in a hurry to have the “dream” of your life. Learning that your dream is not based on reality takes time, and analytical skills that young people do not have. They are not at fault, they just are not prepared for dealing with the dysfunctional. In my opinion, you are not ready to love until you love yourself, and until you can clearly see your partner. Both of these things take time and dedicated effort.

            • No, but I probably should have gone to Al-Anon, and I did study about “sex addiction.” At my age and with my work hours and raising my children I had little time for joining anything. I started reading early, and I could read if I could not sleep, or after the kids were in bed. I researched “cures” and theories with far more enthusiasm than I had ever experienced writing a research paper . I believe part of the purpose of pain is to encourage you to find out what is causing it and how to deal with it.

              One of the interesting books I read was about the psychological profile for adult children of alcoholics. It described the 12 step program and the reasons for the steps. I did not see my father drunk, but I heard whispers about his father’s drinking. My father was a “dry drunk” for years — he abstained or secretly drank, and there was no visible evidence — except for his behavior. He started openly drinking later in life — a serious problem for a diabetic. At any rate, the thinking process and shame, and guilt all take a tole. Oddly enough, even though I have never abused alcohol, I was able to identify flaws in my own thinking, and understand things I could not understand when I was growing up.

              Information and knowledge provide power. Understanding and acceptance often bring peace. One of the benefits of being a part of chump nation is the shared wealth of knowledge and compassion found on this site.

          • “When we are damaged by an abusive relationship, we just want a cure for the pain we feel. Our vision is not clear. We want to believe. We are perfect targets at this point. That is why time alone, and self awareness, and healthy boundaries are so important. When we take our time, and watch actions instead of believing in words, we do better.” This might be the truest thing you’ve ever written, Portia and you write A LOT of good truth! I am almost 6 years out from my divorce but still find myself working on self awareness and boundaries. It takes a shit load of time and healing to not jump at the hint of a “cure” for the pain. Honestly, I’m not sure I’ll ever get to the point where I’m willing to be vulnerable again but I have learned the hard way that enforcing my boundaries with everyone – family, friends, etc., is the only way to keep myself safe. And in the meantime, I am quite content living my single, fuckwit free life.

          • the FW “rescued” me when I divorced my narcissistic, emotionally and financially abusive husband of 26 years. I fell head-over-heels. I didn’t realize anything about his “hero complex” or my “trauma bonding”. I went right from one bad relationship to what I thought was forever with a soulmate. He love-bombed me, as I’ve learned he does in all his relationships. I was vulnerable, I hadn’t ever felt loved. I was floored to realize that cheating and deception are just another form of abuse.

            After all that trauma I am loving being alone, not relying on a “man” to help me. I have a bf, but he’s at arm’s length and it works well for both of us.

            • ChumpNoMore, I was sad to read your comment but glad when I got to the end. Glad you’re doing well and loving life on your own terms.

            • I remember telling the counselor from the RIC that I thought klootak had a hero complex. He would magnetize to any woman who was a damsel in distress. Women who couldn’t get dates. Women who needed career advice. Women who needed help with their cars. You name it. The texts and emails I found were filled with how he ingratiated himself with women by being the knight in shining armor. So if they didn’t already know he was married, when they found out and he told them I was awful, they took him at his word because he is Mr. Wonderful.

              The counselor turned to klootak. “What do you think of that, FW?”

              Klootak: I like to feel needed and she is too independent so I like being with women who need me.

              Counselor: *nods head and moves on*

              That was IT. End of it being “addressed” at all. Then it turned to me and my failure to need him.

              Fast forward to now where we are in an expensive house and a pricey neighborhood where I need his income to keep afloat. So now that he should feel so happy to be needed, he accuses me of being dependent on him and staying out of convenience. Whatever I have done is wrong but if another woman did it, it would really turn his crank.

              I’m lining up my bitch boots to kick his ass.

          • “These folks are accomplished liars and actors.”

            Exactly. Think about the lies they told us. Family and friends. APs, if you were “lucky” enough to see evidence. Lying to anonymous strangers online is not a problem for these people.

            This is only one of the reasons I haven’t looked at a dating app.

        • I’m with you. My XH’s new wife started dating him within a few months after a separation from an almost 30-yr marriage. She was being love bombed, not realizing he was still in the midst of the affair I caught him in. She still doesn’t know their relationship started with a huge lie. I looked at his cell phone records to confirm that he hadn’t ended the affair, and it was pathetic to see him talking to both of them in consecutive conversations.

          If nothing else, why date someone who hasn’t even finalized the divorce? Something about this seems disordered.

        • I’m with you. My XH’s new wife started dating him within a few months after a separation from an almost 30-yr marriage. She was being love bombed, not realizing he was still in the midst of the affair I caught him in. She still doesn’t know their relationship started with a huge lie. I looked at his cell phone records to confirm that he hadn’t ended the affair, and it was pathetic to see him talking to both of them in consecutive conversations.

          If nothing else, why date someone who hasn’t even finalized the divorce? Something about this seems disordered.

    • “He even sent me one of his dating profile pictures and asked me if I didn’t want to reconsider and commit to “this guy”!”

      Wow. Just wow.

  • Re: It was 100% my choice to fake reconciliation, risk your health, fuck your friends, and buy prostitutes. Sometimes all on a single Wednesday. And then I’d lie to your face and complain about your chicken casserole. Because… choices!

    CL you’ve excelled! Lmao here in Ozzy!

    What a total mind fuck.
    What a slutty slut.

    It’s hard to believe the audacity of the request. Hard to believe except ….mine did the same.

    Mine wants to be Friends because it would be better for our son…no problem…when hell freezes over I’ll consider it.

    Sorry, not sorry at all, just FO from my life user, abuser, liar, cheater, faker, fraudster.

    Honey, can you take the garbage out…whats that? oh dear you can’t fit in the bag…what a shame…the stink is terrible. Not to worry, I’ll help you get straight in the wheelie bin and you can get back to the filth you like to wallow in so much.

    My advice, run Forest run. Live the life you want to live.

    • The pic for klootzak in my phone is a dumpster. He is as attractive to me as hot garbage.

  • “I ask you to please take the time for us to meet with someone who can help us talk through the issues to determine if there is any way to save the relationship and not put [our daughters], you and myself through the challenges of divorce, and life after divorce.”

    And whose actions put THAT into motion, FW?

    Block him. Get a parenting app. Any emails from him go straight to the lawyer.

  • His letter:


    And as a throwaway: you and your daughters. Lord, I hate these people and their shallowness, cruelty and deceipt. If voodoo dolls worked, I’d send you a hundred pins.

  • “Cloak of Accountability. Whoosh!”

    This would make a GREAT cartoon!

    Please scratch the UBT between the sprockets for an especially well-done snark job.

  • Bitch Boots:
    I keep hearing “These Boots are Made for Walking” sung by Nancy Sinatra.
    Put those bitch boots on and walk all over him in the divorce settlement.

    • ???? this was one of the ex’s favourite songs. So much so it was on the mix tape at the wedding. Red flag, do you think?

  • “I have given him a clear answer of “NO!” every time, but he still keeps trying. ”

    He keeps trying because you answer him. He figures that there will be the magic number where you cave in. You’ve taught him that by allowing so many D-Days and by buying into the “sex addict” scam. He may well be compulsive about seeking outside sexual partners, but that, my dear, is not your problem. That is something for you to get away from.

    #NoContact. Use a parenting app like Our Family Wizard if your kids are under 18. If they are in college, just send his email address to the spam or junk folder, block him on phone, text and social media, and ignore what he sends you. He’s slow-walking on the divorce because he hates consequences. As long as he thinks he has a shot to persuade you to stick with the marriage, he will continue this behavior.

    No contact is a powerful message. Use it.

    • No contact is glorious! But I admit, I didn’t always heed that advice. I used his contacts to yell-type at him, to spew more angry words at him. At some point I realized his fake apologies and my cursing was just prolonging the pain.

      I couldn’t be truly free until I put up that final wall.

  • for me, one of the biggest shocks/adjustments of chumpdom has been realizing that my X really doesn’t care about me as a person, i exist as both a practical reality (folding underwear into triangles) and a role-fantasy (a good wife/mother for his image).

    now he’s cast aside family life in a quest for happiness + sex, etc.etc. the usual story. it’s cliche as hell. did i mention i had being made into a cliche?

    here i spent years sharing my personhood, my thoughts and feelings, thinking he was there for me. nope. i shake my head over it and think i’m a dope.

    lately i’ve been thinking that he must spend all his energy fantasizing about a lotta things that i probably don’t want to know about. it’s this chasm between fantasy and reality that’s so puzzling.

    this letter QuarterCentury Chump has shared is another example of a guy fantasizing about who he is, what he’s done, who his wife/partner is, etc.etc. and there’s no reality in it. none. how is this possible?

    • I hate that I lost my personhood, too. I don’t know what to do about it, and it’s a cliche – but I feel trapped and alone. It is a psychic death. Unicornomore recently wrote that even though she felt like her ex killed the old her, who she liked – she’s since grown into someone new and different that she likes, too. There’s no going back, and I don’t like where I am, so I guess I’d better not settle in.

      You’re not a dope, you’re just a chump. Not the same, and besides, you’re in good company here. For me, in addition to the increased agency, the best part of being fuckwit free is that I don’t have to take or believe someone else’s constant criticism and devaluation of me. Living like that sucked. Why be mean to myself, then, when I could be free? Why corroborate that fuckwit? If anything, defending myself against him has helped me stand up for myself, against myself, now. I’m stubborn.

  • CL, thank you for another spot-on and funny UBT-analysis. You and CN continue to help me clear my brain and heart, sharpen my own analysis of my ex’s actions, and protect my emotions.

    In the FW’s email, this also popped out at me: “Watching a movie that reminds me of you, brings me to tears.”

    I’m reminded how FWs don’t experience empathy and must see a scene acted out in front of them, and at an emotional and physical distance from themselves, before they notice another person. Also, how FWs use vague language, which we chumps too often imbue with our own personal significance, because they are shallow and/or intentionally manipulative.

    • Some FWs are more shallow than that. I knew my cheater ex wife for 25 years and saw her cry maybe three times. All were related to some sad consequence befalling HER. Never shed a tear at what she did to me or our children. Never moved to tears by a book, song, or movie—and she regarded anyone who was (e.g., me) as an embarrassing and very uncool sap. In hind sight I believe she is a sociopath, with no ability to empathize.

    • i agree with the distancing and use of scenes. it’s like a reel playing in their heads and they’re following a bad movie of their own writing, titled “ATTACK OF THE 50-STORY WIFE” or “I ALWAYS WANTED TO BUST OUT OF MY LIFE LIKE THAT GUY IN SHALL WE DANCE” or “BAD BITCH BOOTS BITE”.

      i could go on and on.

      • The worse cheaters make their lives, the more their abuse of partners makes for unhappy, unfulfilled partners, the more their “primary” relationship deteriorates, they more they project and blame others (primarily chumps) for the impossible mess they’ve made. Whatever chumps do (whether we know about the cheating yet or not) to try and resolve the problems and work toward happiness is doomed. Establish and enforce boundaries, expectations and consequences? They hate that and try to bully their way past. Compromise, nurture, ask questions, pretzel and pick me? They want to justify their cheating so you’re supposed to be someone to vilify and blame (hence the devaluation) so that backfires, too. I think there’s also some misguided version of guilt/shame that makes them uncomfortable when the person they are abusing is chump and naively loving. (This doesn’t stop them, just makes them hate chumps more; or who knows, I guess they might even enjoy it.) Plus, to be genuinely grateful would make them vulnerable, so that’s out.

        Skein untangling, I know. But realizing this did help me understand my ex’s cruelty and mind games and devaluation weren’t because I was worthless or a terrible partner, or that I wasn’t trying hard enough or hadn’t tried the right thing yet. And I was right when I said in couples counseling that I didn’t understand what I was supposed to do.

        • I hadn’t thought of the cruelty in quite this way before B&R, so ‘thank you’.

      • Also, this is kind of funny. Precisely when my ex started cheating (as far as I know), he actually did make a show! He started documenting his life (ha) on YouTube. He created an alter ego – literally, he even uses a different name, which he and many people he knows IRL began to call him – and it became an obsession. I supported him all along, because I wanted to do what made him happy, but my interest and involvement waned over time, particularly as I came to see that not only did his videos not include me – they excluded me from my own life and asked a lot from me – without giving anything in return. FW did not miss publishing his weekly video for years, and he was constantly filming everywhere he went, everything he did (well, not everything ;). I found the videos to be increasingly boring and egotistical, but I never shared, or even hinted at, this – to him or anyone. Well, I did tell him how I felt at the end.

        It recently dawned on me that part of the reason he created an alternate character and life was to escape the character and life he was destroying, rather than changing course and actually doing something about it. The kibbles felt good, too. Why face consequences when you could have thousands of viewers and adoring comments? Feel bad because your loving partner is sobbing or furious about something really shitty you just did? Read words of admiration from people who actually appreciate you. (That’ll show the chump.) Turns out, this is the same urge that drove my ex to contact APs. He confessed that when we “fought” (picture your own discard and Pick Me “fights” for context), he always thought of APs and had to fight the urge not to immediately reach out to them. God, there’s an added layer of threat. What a cowardly, punishing asshole.

        • Edit: Should read, “because I wanted *him* to do what made him happy”

          Important distinction!

  • This sounds remarkably like the sadz my XH had when he realized that utility bills do not pay themselves nor would I continue to do his laundry after I moved out. I got the full hoovering treatment: “The OW broke up with me!” (Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn), “We can still be friends!” (Sure, I really want a “friend” who is a habitual liar and user), and “We can get back together in 3 years” (because I will totally spend those 3 years pining for his wonderfulness).

    They are not sorry they cheated on you. They are sorry there are consequences.

  • I never knew the whole story and chose not to pay for a PI during the divorce which he initiated, but it had to be. There was just no way to go on. He had been putting divorce on the table for 15 years and believed that hours of porn and such were the answer to our crumbling marriage. We had repeatedly broken up and gotten back together, always because of my apologies and insistence. He didn’t want responsibility for his problems or counseling. Then he took off to do whatever while I had to manage the mess and the questions which sometimes I had no answers for.

    And somehow he thought I should 100% trust him after being states away from each other and reconcile because he said so. No one but he and his family thought that was a good idea. So he wanted a divorce, and I had to agree. Then he took it into a high conflict, expensive mess that burned all the remaining bridges that he left behind and probably cost him a bundle. My attorney was near retirement and delegated the paperwork and wrote off parts of what he did because he was the managing partner. So I spent more than I had hoped for, but came out OK.

    Not my way of thinking, but that’s why it had to end.

    • I said to ex ‘we can end this well or we can end this badly. I want to end this well’. He chose to end it badly. ????‍♀️

      • I never had that straightforward a conversation with XW, but I figure that everyone has the option of (A) asking for a divorce, and then dating or (B) having an affair, and then asking for a divorce. Anyone who opts for (B) over (A) has chosen to substantially increase the likelihood of a “ending it badly”, and doesn’t get to complain when things don’t go as amicably as desired.

        • IG, I should have said that I didn’t know about the affair when I said this. Finding the pathetic emails on the home computer, one sent by the stupid ex gf 3 days before my Dad’s funeral headed ‘something to hold on to’, confirmed that it was always his intention to end it badly. They deserve each other. They are both disgusting creatures.

      • Same here — he said quick and easy. We had no custody issues, real estate, or business interests. I knew that was a lie and that he’d club me if I didn’t walk carefully. He had picked the local “streetfighter” attorney supposedly as an advisor. I poked around until I found a good match for his attorney. Mine immediately took charge and wrote a decent agreement, and my ex retained the streetfighter.

        My ex dragged and nitpicked until both senior-level attorneys were going crazy, but we did settle out of court, thanks to his attorney. The streetfighter did have limits. Then my ex dragged out closeout even longer than the divorce, but there were some pandemic issues to overcome. My original attorney retired, and his associate relentlessly kept pushing where he had to. Finally, all closed out.

        What can I say? It all had to be.

      • My ex’s stance was a little different, he said “Don’t make this any harder than it needs to be” My answer was dead silence (on the phone) then he said “I know you don’t have any reason to trust me, but if you will use my lawyer, it will save us both money”

        I said no. He said “your problem is you can’t think for yourself” I said “right now I can’t, that is why I will hire my own lawyer to think for me”

        He was trying desperately to get me to file. I said nope you want the D, you file; and I suggest you do it soon to get our finances separated. I suspect he wanted to be able to tell folks that he tried but I kicked him out or some such shit.

        Of course if he didn’t file within a week or so, I would have had to; but I sure didn’t want to.

        He filed a week or so later, I got the paperwork put in my mail box. Don’t know who put it there.

        It was not my intention to make anything hard or soft. I told my lawyer what I wanted and he took care of it. I could have gotten more, but I got enough to have a decent living space and a few buck in savings. Actually I could have gotten more time with him paying all my living expenses; but after a year I was done.

  • I, me, my …..

    All cheaters love those words

    How dare the chump cut THEM loose? They are shocked that they can’t just throw an ‘I love you’ into the conversation and the chump won’t come to heel. How dare we have standards.

    Don’t read his drivel. Have a trusted friend read his crap only to see if there is something legal you need to know.

    When cutting up the money starts getting real expect the cheater to ………. LIE and CHEAT you in the divorce settlement as much as they can. It is who they are.

  • The only way you will begin to heal from this trauma from his years of abuse (because it is ABUSE) is to go full no contact. Arrange things however you need to in order to never have to read anything like this ever again. Full stop. One thing that helped me was to think if I ever wanted my daughter to end up with someone like my ex. I would shudder at the thought and continue on. I also kept a note in my phone to remind me of the sick shit he had done in case I began feeling sorry for him again. You got this!! I promise, your head will be so much clearer when you are no longer subjected to this utterly abusive bullshit. It’s a process to get out from under and takes a lot of persistence, especially when these fuckers keep sending shit like this. Block, block, block. I also recommend going on long runs and with every step muttering “fuck you” under your breath.. quite cathartic ????

  • Dear ChumpLady & ChumpLadyNation,

    I cannot even put into words how much your UBT letter back to me means!!!! The validation is just beyond words for me at this moment. I am in tears both from your kindness, and the coughing spasms that ensued from the laughter!! THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart!!! You and the UBT absolutely nailed it!!! No words I can say will do justice to the gratitude I have for you! I am taking absolutely everything to heart here.

    [And I also greatly appreciate you including a link to Dr. Omar Minwalla… I hope any chump who might have any sort of involvement with a mythical “sex addict” or the RIC will read and listen to all of his resources. They are a goldmine.]

    And ChumpLadyNation, I appreciate every single comment you took the time to write. They help more than you can imagine. I’m so very sorry all of you have experienced such similar stories with Fuckwits. I wish I could personally respond to and thank you all for every single comment. Thank you all so very much!!!

    ChumpLady, thank you so very much for working your magic with the UBT. You always know what we need to hear. I truly aspire to your level of snark.

    In deep gratitude,
    QuarterCenturyChump x
    (An obstinate bitch with uppity divorce demands)

  • I can verify that the “contact me through my attorney” thing is awesome.

    We are now several months post-divorce. Even though it costs me about $40 every time he comes up with some bullshit whining……it gives me joy to know he had to hand carry his whiny ass complaint to his lawyer’s office (because he can’t operate a computer or a smart phone) and pay a fee while they roll their eyes because he is clueless about the real world and how to navigate in it without a wife appliance caretaker/bopokkeeper. His lawyer emails my lawyer who emails me. I respond and she passes it back….. glorious! So worth the $40 just to be able to watch the shitshow from a safe distance!

    • My ex was hoping to start off with a self-written agreement and then have an attorney bless it, but it went all kinds of wrong immediately. My attorney took what he called “the terrorist’s agreement” and made it all legal, and then sent it to my ex with a letter that he was taking over. He had to hire his own attorney then who at least buffered things somewhat.

      Still, a mess because his attorney had no problem pushing forward demands that were crazy and happily billing my ex right-and-left, but we did settle out of court when his attorney decided that he had enough of that.

  • It’s always the same scenarios with Fuckwits:

    He’s sorry: he got caught
    He’s sorry: there are consequences to his disgusting cheating
    He wants his intact family back: for the purposes of Image Management
    He misses you: because cake was tasty and supply dried up
    He wants reconciliation: because despite knowing that Divorce is 50/50, he rolled the dice on your marriage, health and well-being anyways
    His writing skills aren’t half bad: in comparison to his rock bottom morals

    • Yup, he’s crying because his double life is coming to an end

      He can’t whore around while playing devoted hubby in a nice house any longer

      F’g consequences are for chumps, not for the cheaters !!! How dare we say no more!

      Waa Waa Waa

  • He lied to you (outright plus lies by omission) for a quarter of a century.

    Add them up and you’re probably talking THOUSANDS of lies.

    NOTHING he says can be trusted. And it’s not worth your time to even consider his words going forward. Block him because NO CONTACT is the way to the light on the other side!

  • If people are up for it, please put this hand-written note I just received through their own UBTs. It was sent on fine stationery, which made it feel more like a wedding announcement. I actually just received this on Saturday, and, although I know I’m well rid of him, feel like crying. He says he’s marrying his AP/OP. Next month will mark the second anniversary of D-Day. We were married 35 years. AP is about 12 years younger than he. Doc/nurse situation. #cliché:

    “Dear Spinach,
    I hope that you are well and that life is better for you now.
    I’m writing to tell you that AP and I are getting married next month.
    There is much more that I could say, but words would not capture the feelings I have.
    I regret the dishonorable way in which I ended our marriage. But I want to move forward.

    • I’ll try…

      I have little sense of decency, but I’m going to say something nice anyway to start that doesn’t acknowledge that I am the source of the mess.

      I’m getting married and don’t want to say much about that.

      I’ll end by saying that I’m jerk but don’t want to own that.

      Basically, you’re on your own, and I’m good. Bye.

      Chumplady does it best, but that was fun!

    • Spinach – I’m sorry you have been presented with this last bit of mind fuckery. Our timelines (long marriage and D-Day two years ago) are similar. I would be sad. too.

      I guess I would wonder why he felt he needed to tell you. If it matters at all, there are probably other family members who could share the news. So, it must be his opportunity to “spin” it his way.

      I can only come back to the analogy Velvet Hammer (I think) made. This is the guy who conspired with another person to set your house on fire. He doesn’t get to ask how your scars are healing or fill you in on what he and his fellow arsonist are up to next.

    • I’m so sorry, I know that must’ve been really painful. I’m so sick of these arrogant asshole docs (my X FW also falls into that category) and their overgrown entitlement.

      FWIW, he used “I” a total of 8 times in the short note, and “you” only once. He sent that to you because he knew/hoped it would hurt. Cruel and manipulative. Put on your Bitch Shoes, Spinach, and burn that note! She won a cruel, lying, cheater! Sparkling turd! Thank goodness you are FREE of him!!

    • “I hope that you are well and that life is better for you now.”
      From my mount on the high horse of condescension, I throw you the bone of good wishes for your life, while avoiding any mention of my actions, you know, the ones that made your life hell.

      “I’m writing to tell you that AP and I are getting married next month”
      “I’m rubbing your nose in my affair, and want to make sure you compare your miserable existence as a single person to my fantabulous one with AP.

      “There is much more that I could say, but words would not capture the feelings I have.”
      I can see that I need some verbiage between the last sentence I wrote and the next one I am going to write, so I’ll make a vague gesture to “words I might say.” But won’t say, because I would need to articulate just what it is that I did that was so “dishonorable.” Also, I need a sentence that doesn’t begin with the word “I,” and I like the idea of you wondering just what it would be that I might say, because it’s a type of kibbles, and I need kibbles.

      “I regret the dishonorable way in which I ended our marriage.”
      See how I used a sleight of hand there to suggest that I wasn’t just carrying out an affair while we were married? I didn’t make a thousand choices to cheat; I just made one mistake about the way I chose to leave.

      “But I want to move forward.”
      I found a new source of admiration, because I have the depth of a puddle and need the validation provided by a woman younger than I am. I mean, I’m getting on in years, and I need to believe I’m not.

      [Dusts off hands and seals envelope]

      Spinach, honey, you’re not over the pain of being discarded, and this is a development that tells you how little you meant. Of course it hurts.

      This is the time for you to review your “Fuck you, you fucking fuck” and your “I won’t miss” lists–and add a few more entries! (e. g.: “Fuck you for condescending to me as if I were gum on your shoe.”)

    • I am sorry the festerin jack hole felt the need to do that.

      I think you should just toss it and ignore them, but I would also like to see you write back and say “I wish you both all the happiness you deserve”.

      I wish I had thought of that when my jack hole called me to announce his impending Las Vegas nuptials. (Yep to paraphrase CL: he went to Las Vegas and put his money down on the town whore, that will convince every one he didn’t shit all over himself. I just said “why are you telling me” he said “I didn’t want you to hear from someone else” I then just said “ok, goodbye”. Wish I had said “I wish you all the happiness you deserve”

      But, still you should likely ignore it.

      • Definitely ignore it. Leave him wondering about whether she even received it, much less whether she cared.

          • Thanks, Susie and Apidae,

            As tempting as it is to respond, I absolutely will not. He would love nothing more.

            I know I shouldn’t let my mind go there, but I wonder if they’ll do an actual wedding ceremony with guests, music, and CAKE!

            His side of the family will be anemic. Maybe his mom and sister. That’s it. He’s alienated so many.

            Seventy-five percent of affair marriages end in divorce, so we shall see.

            The lawyers told me to expect that he would marry. “They all do, ” the lawyers said. “And they all get quartered.”

            “What’s that?’ I asked.

            “Well, you got half his money, and the second wife will get the other half when she divorces him.”

            All the lawyers seemed confident that his inevitable second marriage would fail. Maybe they were telling me what I wanted to hear.

            We’ll see. I have to get it into my chumpy head that these two cheaters (she cheated on her husband as well) are crappy people with crappy values. They can have each other.

            • I also like to think that when they marry their APs – now her old position is available ????

              • Guaranteed FreeFromFW. Guaranteed.

                What Whores never seem to be able to do the math on is when they move up to first position, a vacancy is created for new side piece. But more than that, they’ve mostly like been mixed in with side piece-es throughout the monkey branching phase. FIDIOTS.

    • “I hope that you are well and that life is better for you now.”

      UBT: Obligatory fake interest in your current welfare done. Now, about ME.

      “I’m writing to tell you that AP and I are getting married next month.”

      UBT: Neener! Neener!

      “There is much more that I could say, but words would not capture the feelings I have.”

      UBT: Suffice it to say that I’m super duper happy about landing a trophy. My feelings about how hot her ass is are as deep as the Aegean sea. That stings, doesn’t it. Come on, tell me how much it hurts.

      “I regret the dishonorable way in which I ended our marriage.”

      UBT: Obligatory fake remorse done. Now, more about ME.

      “But I want to move forward.”

      UBT: And write to you about my upcoming nuptials, on my best stationary, because I’m moving forward, and not triangulating at all. Certainly not.

      Spinach, whatever you do, do not respond to this despicable missive in any way. He’s looking for a reaction. There is no other reason for him to send you this. Don’t even talk about it to family or friends. He’ll surely ask them if you had anything to say about his bullshit wedding.
      What a rat bastard. He just had to rub it in. I’m really sorry sweetie.

      • I won’t give him the satisfaction of a response. Thanks so much, OHFFS!

        Oh, and your UBT is on the money, I’m afraid.

        • OHFFS nailed it. This is Narc Triangulation 101. In the mind of the shallow, they design the monkey branch within the fantasy that this leap will annihilate you. Cuz, you know, a Narc can never leave a relationship in a mature, respectful, amicable manner.
          They get off on Triangulation. The best move any Chump can do is remove yourself from the triangle. Take the 3rd leg off the 3-legged stool and watch it collapse.

    • Dear Spinach,
      I just HAD to write you to tell you….”I’M GETTING MARRIED!” AGAIN!…Isn’t that GREAT?! I had to tell you because I know you’ve been pining over me and hoping I’ll come back. And, maybe you’ll write something to prove that to me because, you know, I still need those kibbles. Hope you are well, blah, blah, blah. So much to say but I can’t think of what it might be and don’t want to ruin my news. Sometimes I do think I was a douchebag in how I handled things but then…that was so long ago…and I’m over it now. I want to move on and get MARRIED AGAIN! So, I’ll ignore those bad feelings because they kinda bring me down. Hoping you’ll acknowledge my great news!
      See ya!

      • #nailedit

        esp this: “So much to say but I can’t think of what it might be and don’t want to ruin my news.”

        I wish I could tell him (but won’t) that I don’t give two shits what he has to say or whatever the hell elusive feelings he has. When he blew up our marriage, he lost the right to my concern for any of that.

    • He’s hoping this will reopen old wounds so he can pour vinegar into them.

      I wouldn’t respond. I wouldn’t bring it up. If someone else does – laugh and shake your head.

      • My sister made that same observation. His goal is to hurt me more.

        What a fucked-up way to be!

        • It’s actually not news at all. It’s an invitation to “come closer so I can abuse you again”. Any response would give him that opportunity. Your NC must be driving him insane! So sorry he is trying to hurt you Spinach but as you know he is an absolute FW.
          When he gets “quartered” and he will no doubt once AP-Nursey has enough runs on the board to score a decent settlement from him, you’ll enjoy the ????of his newest shitshow! Hugs to you.

          • ????????????
            Runs on the board indeed.
            Ohhh those AP Bitches. They have it down to a science.
            The 1/4 actually adds up to 1/2 then 3/4’s, etc., as they move along. Slithering Snakes.

    • “…..and because we take ourselves with us, I am well on my way to my next divorce. Or at least rinse/repeat the dysfunctional dance I did when I was married to you. Please refer to my new wife as ‘Number Two’, as she is Number Two in every sense of the term. As a cheater, I learn nothing from my past transgressions, and because humans are creatures of habit, Number Two as my lawfully wedded wife can legitimately have every expectation of the same treatment I inflicted on you. New gets old. Living somewhere is vastly different from vacationing there. And when someone marries his cheating accomplice a vacancy is created.

      As sincere as I can be,


      When cheaters marry you have a union of two relationship-school flunkies. Any idiot can get married, and many do as we here know firsthand all too well. But it takes emotionally mature and healthy people working together to create a healthy relationship, something cheaters prove constitutionally incapable of with their cheating.

      “Together” does not mean the involved partners are healthy people. Eva Braun thought Hitler was a swell guy and married him before they killed themselves.

      She took your seat in hell, Spinach. You were duped; she is a dope.

    • Spinach@35
      Oh sweetie, I am sending a virtual hug to you along with acknowledging how much something like what he did hurts like hell.

      I would also like to add, without discounting your pain, that my father, who had been married to my mother for 20 years, was delighted to get married to #2 wife too but…….not long after that union there was another divorce……….and not long after that divorce there was another perfect marriage………and not long after that the writing was on the wall for another divorce, the shine had worn off….but he died before that cycle could repeat itself.

      Your pain is real. You were used and abused and abandoned. You have been abused again by someone who has NO clue because he IS CLUELESS and there is no cure for that.

      For you, this too shall pass because you are not clueless and YOU will heal.

    • “I feel entitled to absolution for destroying your life and I’m selfish enough to try to bully you into giving it to me as a wedding present.”

      Also, fuckwit can pretend to have courage and be the bigger person by writing that weaselly scrap, but he hid affairs for years? They treat people
      like actual trash and haven’t a shred of compassion or decency. Fuck him. Spinach, I was thinking yesterday that your ex sounds an awful lot like mine, and this confirms it. I am about two years past DDay 1, I similarly trust ex sucks and don’t ask or care what he’s doing, I am beyond relieved to be free of him and his abuse – and I also know that getting a letter like this would fuck with me. I’m sorry you are dealing with this, and my heart sinks to imagine how you must be feeling. Treat yourself really well and make sure you get the support you need. You’re healing but it’s still quite recent, and fall can be a tough time a year.

      If you can manage, definitely don’t respond and don’t say anything to any residual flying monkeys. Remember the lessons from the Pick Me and discard days. And if you screw up and don’t handle it the way you want to, forgive yourself and realize it doesn’t matter. He’s a garbage person who will believe and say whatever garbage pops into his disordered mind. It doesn’t matter what he “thinks.”

    • Thanks Spinach! I’m enjoying all the answers. 😉 I think I have another angle which hasn’t been covered.

      >I hope that you are well and that life is better for you now.

      >I’m writing to tell you that AP and I are getting married next month.
      Me, me, me. Just to let you know if you’re still pining for me.

      >There is much more that I could say, but words would not capture the feelings I have.
      Me, me, me. Drawing a blank. Faking emotions is too tiring.

      >I regret the dishonorable way in which I ended our marriage. But I want to move forward.
      Me, me, me. I’m feeling icky guilt. Waaa! I need you to wipe it away like a mother cleans her toddler’s face. Did I get it all?

    • Spinach@35 – big big hugs to you.

      My chickens came into the kitchen this morning and popped on the floor. I need some good quality paper to wipe it up with…. Throw me that letter ????????


    • Shall be satisfy ourselves with pretending to respond?

      To FW,

      Thank-you for your memo, I liked the high quality paper so much that I cleaned up the neighbours dog shit with it.

      My life is indeed better without a liar and an adulterer so I have much to be grateful for.

      I was sorry to read about your next victims marriage, my sympathy’s to God who will be sad to enter into another covenant with a cheater. I’ll pray for you when I remember…whoops…which isn’t that often.

      I chuckled that you couldn’t capture your feelings as this is undoubtedly because of your innate shallowness that you couldn’t find any! Perhaps you have a medical illness impeding your ability to think? You’re not getting younger…

      Please move on, move far from me, how about Uranus? That has a ring to it for you.

      From an honourable woman

    • So he thinks he can wipe the slate clean because that suits him

      He hopes that life is better for you now…. the power he had to screw up your life still gives him a sense of awe

      Ignore him, he’s a stranger

  • I am curious how to fold underwear into triangle shapes. I do very neat rectangles. My ex once asked me to show his current wife how to do the rectangles. I feigned memory loss.

  • QuarterCenturyChump’s story was so triggering I almost lost my breakfast. The apology letter from their cheater was almost verbatim to the ones I’ve received. Do cheaters plagiarize them from a site on the dark web?

    I couldn’t even scroll down to the UBT’s response; I just sat in stupor, which made me late for work. Tardy as I already was, I hesitated for a moment at the closet before deciding, for the first time this season, to wear my favorite tall boots. Maybe for comfort, for extra support, IDK.

    I walked out into my Monday morning and BAM????. The alteration to my schedule caused me to cross paths with an individual I’ve never met before, but who has occupied my thoughts for years. The Butterfly Effect, I guess?

    This man and I locked eyes, and the morning commute just stopped. We made introductions and he said that only days ago his wife confessed to him the years-long affair with my FW. Fellow Chump, being in the early stages, tells me that he’s going to fight for his marriage; he has to, he has no choice. I just stood there. I couldn’t make my legs stop shaking in my boots. All I could manage to say was “be careful,” and he said, “what do you mean?”

    I shared a little about my hellish journey through wreckonciliation over the past few years, and how my FW and Fellow Chump’s wife made so many promises about how sorry they were. I cast back to a surreal conversation I had with OW when she told me that she loved her husband and she loved Jesus.

    Christ on a cracker; now her husband is standing before me, telling me that he’s going to succeed where I failed. He thinks he’s gonna save this.

    He doesn’t see the path ahead, laid with booby traps and land mines – the lies and gaslighting and manipulation, the relentless re-traumatization.

    I wanted to tell him about the kibbles, and the pick me dance, and the mindf*ck blender and the 3 channels (charm/pity/rage), and how the RIC will do nothing except take his money and prolong his pain. I wanted to pull my phone out of my pocket and show him today’s Chump Lady post. But he was white-knuckling his hopium pipe with both hands and didn’t seem able to receive anything else in that moment.

    I just said “call me anytime if you need to talk” and then we went our respective ways.

    I somehow piloted my car to the office and made it to my cubicle, where I found a blanket to wrap up in until I could stop shaking enough to hold a cup of tea. It was then that I finally had time to read the UBT’s response to QCC.

    Thank you, UBT. You deserve all the lebkuchen. All. Of. It.

    “Watch me try on my Cloak of Accountability. Whoosh! Watch me take it off.” Ladies and gentlemen, the Amazing FW!

    “Keeping you as my wife would save a lot in legal bills and gives me a veneer of normalcy.” Because it’s all about ME and saving money and ME.

    “Zero accountability. Your continued trusting stupidity.” Oof

    “Is there any way to not put me through the challenge of consequences?” Afraid not.

    It breaks my heart to think of this Fellow Chump and the journey he’s just starting. Right now he’s still wearing his flip flops; I hope he finds his boots sooner than I did.

    But starting today I’m going to call these boots my Bitch Boots. ✨????????✨

    What a weird day

    • ActNonVerba: At least send him the link to this website, if not the book. Not sure why you never clued him in over the years about the affair. Do unto others…

      • Threetimes: Ouch. Could I ask you to keep a couple things in mind?

        First, I’ve agonized over just what “do unto others” looks like in my situation. Like some others here, I’m imperiled by multifaceted safety and/or legal complications.

        Second, CN is one of my only safe spaces on the planet. I lurk here, devouring every word but commenting sparingly because engaging publicly is a risk. What if I accidentally let some personally-identifying detail slip, and people who mean me harm find me here and use it against me? At this point in my journey I’m extremely careful to only share CL and CN with people I know and trust. When I do choose to engage here I guess it’s because I’m desperate for connection, empathy and support.

        • ActaNonVerba … you need to put your safety first

          You gave the guy a warning about the dirty tricks he will face in the future, that was enough.

    • WOW.

      Amazing story.

      Leaves me wondering where it will lead to in the end. One never knows when someone will wake up.

      He knows you know something you do not
      he knows you wear Bitch Boots. (I love that!)

      Thanks for sharing. I needed a good coincidence/butterfly story today.

  • Dear Former Clothes Folder,

    I don’t really care what you think but Nurse Ratchet is under my office desk right now and insisted I send this letter to you before she services me. I need to hurry because my 3:00 will be here soon and her BJs are getting lamer by the day.

    I’m a doctor and it looks kind of weird for me not to be married- plus I need clean socks- so that nasty slut who told me my balls tasted like peppermint candies even though I haven’t washed them in a year is cool with taking my money in exchange for sucking them when I tell her to. If she stops, she just created an opening for a new ball licker, ha ha! Who am I kidding? I am already getting sick of this moron. She is getting bossy like you were. That cute teenager that works with our daughter at Wendy’s always gives me extra nuggets. She looks like she may be into pearl necklaces. You probably think I am talking about jewelry, ha ha. Maybe I will call her. I think I will wait the week after the wedding. I am a gentleman.

    I could tell you a lot of lies and pretend I am sorry but we both know I don’t give a fuck. Besides, I am getting laid and people aren’t going to hate me anymore for leaving you. Be happy for me.

    Deuces bitch!!

  • They always claim in their fake apologies that they “now understand how much pain” they have caused.
    They don’t understand, they will never understand it.
    For me it’s 3 years now, the divorce is all finalized and apart from the weekly handover of the kids, I have nothing to do with my cheating ex.
    Tuesday has pretty much come, although I enjoy reading and writing here – and I am sure that means something.
    But every once in a while, maybe once a month , I dream of her – and the dream is always about betrayal.
    This is quite far from the initial trauma I felt, which really affected all aspects of my life and took years to get over.
    I think the dreams are a form of PTSD. I will not allow the cheating and divorce to define me but we all carry scars.
    They have no idea of how much pain they caused. And the emotional abuse gets never qualified in any official sort of way. The divorce is just about money and the legal system here all of a sudden puts the perpetrator of this emotional abuse in a position of power – which they should never have if there would be any justice in the way a divorce is handled. They should be chased out of town tarred and feathered as far as I am concerned.

  • I have the exact same story except 23 years married and 3 kids. He wrote these kinds of sorry letters after GTFO day-he sent them every week. I actually put them in a binder so kids and I could read it regularly. Kids never read them more than once but I read them 100x a day, trying to make sense of what was going on. My therapist kept telling me these letters mean nothing, he is manipulating you, he is trying to control the narrative. I was so deep in denial I thought my therapist was too cynical. She said he won’t be able to sustain it, just wait. I was sure my super-sepcial sparkly unicorn would prove her wrong.

    She was right. He lost interest in 2 months flat and promptly went full-psycho monster. Now I am 1.5 years post-GTFO and one month post-divorce. It has been UGLY. Has been on lavish vacations with AP. Has been hiring prostitutes and doing it in the car, leaving unmentionables all over for the kids to see. He has discarded the kids very dramatically (didn’t even say goodbye to our daughter who left for college). He is refusing to pay child support and alimony and we are back in court. He doesn’t follow the parenting plan at all. He’s supposed to have the minors every other weekend but he hasn’t picked them up in 2 months. These kids who has loved and adored all our lives, it seems he has really forgotten they exist.

    So I look at my binder of letters and see the cruelty of it all. Those were part of the act from the marriage. Once he knew we had figured him out, he didn’t spend one more second or cent on us. He had to move on to people who didn’t see behind the mask. It’s the deception that he is addicted to.

  • QCC: sorry you’re here in life, but glad you’re here with CL/CN instead have f the RIC. Reading your letter and the UBT made me think back on many very similar letters and pleas from my ex. I have some distance now, but no wonder it was such a mindfuck! What a reminder. Just wait until you’re clear. You’ll feel so much better once your head is out of the blender.

    I am curious, has your ex said things like this in the past? What did he say, and what did you believe, to come back for reconciliation after past ddays and Hoovering? It is so clearly a pattern, or at least it was for me – again, once I stepped back. What makes you believe it will be different this time? And if it is because of something a cheating liar has said… again, how is that different?

    I remember feeling like my predicament was a catch-22. It eventually became clear the only way my ex would change, and the only way I could protect my boundaries, was to enact real consequences, leave and and cut contact. Permanently. But these consequences meant I couldn’t have what I most wanted: my life back. Two problems with my thinking: 1. I didn’t actually want my life back because that meant returning to an unstable situation with a terrible relationship and an abusive partner. 2. I imagined that the consequence of losing me would teach my ex that cheating and lying hurts everyone; he would regret losing me and learn lessons about life and love and reciprocity, then return, ready to make a happy life together. In reality, the consequence of losing me wasn’t the lesson I’d dreamt of, high on hopium. When I left, I only taught him that he couldn’t treat me like that. It was about protecting myself, period. UBT is right. A sociopath doesn’t care about you, or about normal consequences or values (and he also probably has someone else lined up, besides. Or he will in no time.) But if you divorce and cut him out of your life, he knows you’re done, and that’s what counts.

  • “I wish I could make that wish. I would so waste a wish on you.”

    Not only did you tear this letter apart in a masterful way, but this part especially cracked me up. It perfectly encapsulates the meaninglessness of certain things cheaters say. Recently I received “I’m sorry I negatively affected you with my actions.” Inspecific gobblygook that somehow helps them feel better while reminding me of their utter shittiness, incessant blameshifting, and lack of real accountability.

  • With that many D-Days (and a lot of us here had way more than 1), you are living your life in Chaos, always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Going through a Chester’s wallet or dresser, looking for receipts of wrong doing, questioning where he was when he got this speeding ticket on the East Coast when he reported to you he’d be in Seattle “on a business trip”. Constantly playing marriage police in all aspects of life. These fuckwits are toddlers. Toddlers who are 6′ tall, who have credit cards, can take out loans, can get women pregnant. Toddlers who can wreck nuclear destruction. It’s no way to live.

    I caught Dracula cheating in my late 20s and forgave him, caught him cheating in my early 30s and forgave him. Then I was an even BIGGER IDIOT and married the fuckwit. I had two kids, and when my youngest was 2 years old, and I was in my early 40s, guess what? I caught him cheating AGAIN. But this time, I found a great therapist (after spending thousands on RIC sites & books) who told me “you will experience this again in your 50s, 60s, and 70s, if you live that long, which frankly I don’t think will happen, because he is going to kill you with the stress”. I’m now in my early 50s, and have been the happiest I’ve ever been. Kick this Cheater to the Curb.

    The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result. There will be no different result if you go back. Just D-Day #5, #6, #7 and beyond.

    • Yep, thank God I stopped at Dday number two.

      He tried to destabilize me and give me hope about three more times, the first time he tried after Dday 2, I, I said in a nice way “go to hell”. We were sitting in front of the preacher, so I softened it to “We are done here”.

  • Ohhhh, the Siren songs they can sing!!!! I’d like to think that I can speak halfway eloquent, but even the stupid cheaters astound me with their linguistics. I’m sure it sounds great to them and to most chumps hopped up on the hopium. Now 5 years out and reading Tracy’s hilarious UBT’s, it just makes me shake my head that I actually fell for some of that shit. At least I can laugh about it now. After, I finally broke free of it I started to do some investigating into the past conversations I’d had. Funny, how it seemed completely different. The very first thing that stood out to me was the complete 180’s they do. As I thought about all the sane, loving people in my life I realized NONE of them had ever acted in that manner. Going from, “You never made me feel loved and I was so lonely!!!! I deserve to be loved, so……Tinder plus and snapchat nudies and rando’s. To……..If you would have only seen the signs and why can’t you just be reasonable? This is usually because you just hit them with the bitch slap of consequences. It’s never “I’m so sorry babe, please forgive me, I’ll do anything to be with you and regain you’re trust. It’s always, “if you would just, or if you could only”. Look at what I just did there….”IF YOU” They don’t think and will never accept blame unless it’s to manipulate you and that’s only words, not how they feel. True love for others is the epitome of selflessness. Pro tip…..they don’t misunderstand……..they just don’t want to. Chew on that while you’re lawyer goes to work on it.

    • I love CLs UBT.

      I fell for the line “I only told you that to make you hate me” when he wanted to come back and I said but, you told me you never loved me and you cheated for ten years.

      I bought it and a few days after he moved in I could hear the proverbial shark in the water music in my mind, and I kicked him out. He only wanted to get back in the house to get access to his car for his politicking (more lying).

      When I told him to leave, I said you just used me to get use of the car, he said “No, I just wanted to try to get my feelings back and I couldn’t” Keep in mind within the first day he was avoiding me and pushing me aside. Telling me he just needed time and he was feeling guilty over what he had done.

  • Chris W, you hit the nail on the head. These cheaters are TODDLERS emotionally, intellectually and spiritually. The only indication of adulthood is physical stature. Just because it’s finally recognized does not mean a cheater desires to mature into an emotional, intellectual or spiritual adult. Most know they’re stunted and can’t function in mature relationships but simply don’t care. They’ve honed enough practical skills to blow along the landscape of life like a tumbleweed. Cheaters find their level; it’s low, but good enough.

    The best help I received is when I met with a therapist. He listened attentively to my report of the overall relationship then asked ONE question: “How many children do you have together?” After my response that we had two children together, the therapist then concluded with, “No, you don’t have two children, you have three. Your husband is a child trying to function in an adult relationship.”

    It explained the whole matter and completely changed ME.

  • Latitude 69,
    And for many years, under my breath, I used to call Cheater Boy, my 4 th child.
    Wise therapist.
    One adult and one child in my marriage.

  • >
    %d bloggers like this: