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Worst of the Flying Monkeys?

Today’s Friday Challenge by popular demand (from last week’s Friday Challenge) is…

… Flying monkeys!

I don’t know about you, but those winged primates used to freak me out as a child. The Wicked Witch was bad enough, setting Scarecrow on fire and zooming around sky-writing threats. But those freaky little monkeys in their organ grinder uniforms…. flying in formation… (shudder).

In pop psychology terms, a “flying monkey” describes people who are acting at the behest of another to control a targeted individual. It’s inspiration is the Wizard of Oz. The Wicked Witch can’t be everywhere, so she’s got her winged hench-monkeys to do her dirty work.

(Until she’s dead, of course, and then they’re all, “All Hail Dorothy!” Whatevz.)

So, your Friday Challenge — tell CN about the flying monkeys in your story.


Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • In my first marriage, the OW’s best friend called me out of concern. She needed me to know that OW had purchased a gun and was talking smack. This was after the OW sent me copies of his love letters, called me on the phone and played taped portions of their phone conversations for me, left the flowers (dead) he gave her on my porch with a cut out heart. She followed me all over town; grocery, restaurant, my street, and just talking a walk. This was back in the 80’s before stalker laws. I wasn’t very healthy, it was more of a pick me cage fight. I called the Cincinnati Enquirer and got her fired (she was a photographer), called her father’s office, never got to speak to him. I was hoping for some final scene, where we wrestled for the gun. I was nuts. I’m not sure how I won, but I did. What a booby prize. The marriage was over a year later, and it was harder than ever for me without him having a side piece to run to. I had to convince him we were going to date after the divorce. Ugh.

  • #Sometimes …

    I would definitely say the person my “UnHusband” got married to. Sometimes nominates herself as a “flying monkey” …

    In point of fact she actually has a sleeve on her arm and part of the tattoo is a monkey with a “crown” on it

    Especially in the last year, she INSISTS every answer has to do with having “50/50” week on and off

    “Those People” are taking me back to court again because apparently their paying too much money… And want to custom build a $500K house…

    BUT I am going to use this as LEVERAGE to get the schedule I WANT for the NEXT 8 YEARS…

    Plus, some other boundaries I want to ensure “SHE” can’t cross!!

    • Wow! A crowned monkey tattoo. That’s not just in bad taste. It’s dysfunctional too.

      I was going to suggest that my ex-FW is both a narc and a flying monkey. I’m not sure what psychology has to say about that, but he just gobbles up everything she says like it’s cheesecake.

      • Hey ChumpQueen,

        The “Cheesecake” comment is SPOT-ON…

        I wonder “WHY” that is #Sometimes?

        “WHY” do “They” “Gobble-Up” everything they say like their trustworthy… When in point of fact they committed infidelity…

  • There was n awful time in our marriage…about 1999 when Cheater was stationed at a military base in northern Calif. I now see HUGE red flags because then-husband had suggested that me/kids not even move with him – I literally thought he was kidding, but apparently he wasn’t.

    There were so many incongruities around me, I believe I was being gas-lit to an extraordinary degree. I even went to a doctor with crazy phantom symptoms …my body was trying to tell me something.

    I now believe that there was a HUGE work related fuck fest going on.

    During that time, there was a guy (the designated flying monkey in this story) who was just younger that Cheater and giving him counsel. This guy was divorced and navigating the XW/kids thing with a new romance fiancé and apparently juggling them all was a chore.

    His advise to my Cheater was “never get divorced” and Cheater told me that.

    At the time, I found that comforting “Oh he wants our marriage to flourish”. I now believe that there was a preface to the advise…something like “fuck whoever you want, but never get divorced”.

    Whatever cheating was part of his game before, I think that era of time cranked the knob to 11. Endless episodes of weirdness followed.

    We here know that divorce happens and most of us would have deeply preferred a respectful “I no longer wish to be married, I have initiated a divorce” to the ghastly abusive cheating we were subjected to. The advise I believe Cheater got from that monkey sealed the fate of the next 12 years of my life.

    • I agree that it’s way better to have your partner respectfully ask for a divorce than to cheat on you. Unfortunately, I think almost no one ever does that. Cake is too delicious. I think if your spouse wants to leave you, unless you have an obviously dysfunctional and painful marriage, it’s because there’s somebody else.

      • Yes, my divorce attorney was the first person to point out to me that spouses who take off far away from their families on shaky pretence either have a “friend” on the other side or are planning to find a “friend” because they are throwing off their current state of responsibility and monogamy. Forty-plus years of divorce law and the founder/managing partner, and he had never heard of a case otherwise.

    • A fine example of the military motto of “Bros before Hoes” which is the misogynistic category of any woman who is somehow attached to a military enlistee… be they girlfriend or wife.

      There is no respect for wives in the military. Lots of lip service, but no real respect.

      • With all due respect to the relatively few exceptions who prove the rule, the military doesn’t respect women in general. It makes no difference what their category: civilian, enlisted, or officer. Women exist for male pleasure only. If we don’t please them, we’re worthless bitches. If we do, we’re worthless whores. It’s a brotherhood of hypermasculinity that rests its laurels on misogyny.

        • Yup. Just read the “recent” stories about the pervasiveness of sexual harassment and assault, and look at the military’s responses. What can we do? Stand up for your values and openly question the military – individual service members or broader attitudes, policies and engagements – and you are vilified for being unpatriotic. At least this is my experience in the rural communities where I live – and especially in the supposedly “secular” and neutral public school system. It sickens me. Our institutions are rife with systemic sexism and racism. Meanwhile, entitled, hypocritical, aggressive bullies are attacking intellectual freedom and civil rights in the name of god and our “free country” (I’m from the US). It all boils down to “Might is Right.” Fuck that. And yet… how?

          • I became the wife of an Air Force pilot, he and his crew would fly regular trips to the Philippines. I was young and naive, I never imagined I’d I know someone who would pay for a prostitute. I remember being surprised that the first thing many married crew members do when they land is find one or two prostitutes to bring back to their room. I was even more shocked to learn that a few married crew members even had a bonus secret families in the Philippines .
            It should have been a sign for me to run but I continued being surprised, these men appeared to be “nice guys.” Men with families. It was common knowledge among the crew members as well as men in command. No one was ever reprimanded. T What happens on a trip stays on a trip… This was during the time of AIDs awareness in the late 80’s. In the back of my mind I couldn’t help but wonder if any of theri wives had come down with an STD or worse. I should have probably been concerned for my own health and STD’s. Like I said I was young and naive. My husband would never…

          • So true bread&roses! I do my best – as a teacher, political activist, and veteran – to inform, educate, and make changes. Systemic change crawls at the pace of a snail through molasses, but it does happen. That’s what all the damn backlash is about these days. The more reactionary backlash you see, the more things are changing. I just hang my hopes on that.

  • When the X and I lived in Germany, I tried to leave and file for divorce. I kicked him out. He went into a mental hospital for a month to learn to deal with his anger. When he got out, therapists, friends, his family all convinced me to take him back. “Give him a chance, he’s changed.” So, I let him back in, worked for two years to make myself love him and want to be in a marriage with him again, while he slowly went back to his old way, abusive and keeping secrets.

    Ten years later, I was filing for divorce again and for the same reasons, but the abuse and cheating was even worse. This time, whenever a flying monkey showed its ugly head spouting something like “God doesn’t want you to divorce.” I swatted it down with a broom and went on my way.

    • Yes, I hate how the mental hospitals tell you that it’s all good, and more often than not, it’s either not good or is going to fall apart again soon.

      Being a hopeful person, I believed them and reconciled as well. After he took off again, our mutual therapist told me how many times “all good” really sticks. Jeez, I wish I had known. When we moved, I found his self-written plan on how he was going to remain “all good” in some papers along with brochures about his issues and how to manage that afterwards. All bald-faced lies.

      He wanted out of the hospital and home again in status quo, period.

  • MIL who told me that having challenged now-Ex-Mrs LFTT with the undeniable evidence (found by our children) of her cheating (and drinking and other things) was the worst possible thing I could have done. According to her I should have kept quiet and “it would have all blown over sooner or later as it was just an infatuation.” I gave her very short shrift and explained the damage she was causing to me and the kids.

    I lost a lot of respect for her in that one conversation; she is a Chump herself and had to deal with it in the 60s, when the options open to her were much more limited than they are today. To give MIL her due, she came out of the FOG fairly quickly and she is now very much on my (and the kids’) side.


  • The Cowardly Liar was a musician and IT guy. I think the shorter path to the goal for me would be to list who in our shared life WASN’T a flying monkey.

    (The answer, I believe, is “only the people I met completely separately from him, plus my own family, except a couple of friends I knew before him, and, yes, a couple of people IN MY OWN FAMILY”.)

    • Amiisfree, I have an ex, that I found out is a narcissist from YouTube videos that started showing up. I had never heard the word before, but it sure fits him to a T. Now, he’s stalking me, which he had actually been doing since we started seeing each other romantically. VERY few people will take the time to really look, listen, and comprehend what you’re experiencing. Including the police, in general. To this day, I am deeply sickened every time I grasp the magnitude of flying monkeys he utilized. I’m absolutely positive I believe ANYBODY he knows is his flying monkey. Twisted and potentially life threatening!

  • Below is the letter I got from my monkey.. His coworker. I had posted something on Facebook and they didn’t like it because of course it made them look bad. Just for reference, I wasn’t married to this one but he knew what my ex-husband did to me and the night before the lockdown after planning an entire weekend for me and with me, he ended it after two and a half years with no notice and no explanation. When I did get diagnosed with cancer two months later I mean to a friend called to tell him he did not message me. The only time he messaged me was after it went public on Facebook and he know he had to do it to save face.

    Whoa girl, Whooooooooa. I advocate for validity of feelings and self expression always. Your truth is what you choose. It’s based on experience, bias, expectations. As well as your blind spots, character flaws and narcissism. For at least two years I watched John love and value you. To the point of undermining and restricting his friendships and relationship with Moxie.
    You demanded too much.
    You attempted to control everything.
    You didn’t accept him.
    He did not abandon you the day before a pandemic, you dumb cow. He is part of a high risk demographic for this virus and your controlling and manipulating personality paired with his inherit desire to please literally put his life in danger. Which you clearly gave no fuck about because for your pathetic need to be valued by others. Protip—— find your value in yourself.
    Didn’t reach out when you had cancer? Bitch chill. John has experienced deadly cancer. He told me he expressed concern about the Spot on your nose and you weren’t proactive. Fuck all the way off with your martyrdom about that shit. You are not his responsibility. He is a kind, empathetic, caring and selfless individual. And when your batshit friend asked him to contact you I strongly advised against it. It’s a slippery slope and John is not your person for these things anymore. To call him cowardly!?! BITCH ARE YOU DUMB!? John has more grace and courage than the majority of humanity. Just because it is not being bestowed upon you at your whim does NOT make him a coward. It makes him a healthy mature person with boundaries. John daily exhibits courage and fortitude that I can barely fathom. It’s a cheap, and truly classless comment to say he is a coward.
    A coward is defined as a person lacking the courage to endure dangerous or unpleasant things. Fuck you for attempting to say he is a coward. The unpleasantness visited upon him is beyond comprehension for most people. The danger he gracefully endures daily with me and my erratic emotions and outbursts deserves a goddamn service medal. You are truly fucking unhinged If you think think calling him an asshole is appropriate here at all. You’re being a shitty selfish little brat who needs control and lacks self awareness and is lashing out at a wonderful human simply because he didn’t react the way your ego wanted.
    In summary, be grateful for the happy memories you have with him. Grow the fuck up about you not being right for each other, and do not ever disparage his character to make yourself feel better. Not a cute look. Be better. And don’t come for my dude like that. I will always be by his side ready to fight

    • Gah…that is awful. Flying monkey setting fire to things here. I’m sorry this happened to you…this is nasty shit.

    • Wow, just wow. Overreaction much? You’d think this cow-irker is the wronged party. This is precisely why I do not actively participate in the stupidity that is Facebook culture. I’m sorry, aka Ashley, that you were targeted by this BS while dealing with a cancer diagnosis.

    • I can see why she and John are friends.

      That makes two people you need to scrape off your boots.

    • Holy, salmonella infested word salad, Batman! I’m pretty sure you hit a nerve there.

      She’s like the Top Gun of flying monkeys. So sorry Ashley!

    • I have never seen a better example of DARVO. What a tool this guy is. I am speechless.

    • For real? How does a stranger get to talk to you like that, he’s ridiculously disrespectful. But this is yet another reason why I don’t do social media other than anon platforms and for promoting my work.

    • I would’ve posted that shit on Facebook too. Big huge font. And tagged any people you may have in common.

      • I thought the same thing and I’m a really private social media person who has no drama ever.

        But I might just post that and leave it to sit with everybody tagged and then say nothing more about it ever. Let others discuss what they think of it. LOL

    • Ashley,
      What the fuck was that tirade ?! Is this “dude” your ex’s penis pal ?

    • Wow! I hope you were able to stick to NC for this one. Futile to engage – sounds exactly like a cheater during discard. That is one devious, manipulative, nasty flying monkey. (Please do reveal the gender!) Any chance that person is an AP? If not, he/she definitely has skeletons in the closet. And/or is getting a lot of kibble, somehow, from your ex. Ludicrous and fishy. It puts you in a tough spot, because you don’t want to poke a bear and won’t be able to compete with that next-level nastiness even if you try, yet you want to minimize the effects of slander and out the flying monkey – as well as your FW ex. I know I had revenge fantasies, but I mainly wished I could expose the history and lies (and the dynamics of abuse) so people could understand my “side” of the story. I just wanted (want) to move through my community comfortably again, to live in peace.

      Reading that BS is like when you find evidence of a fuckwit’s cheating and the false narrative he was spreading, and the reality is FAR worse than the worst you imagined. Instead of believing you must be mean and paranoid, like the gaslighting and your chumpy personality led you to assume was the case, you realize you are in fact naive and far too generous. Now that I trust “they” suck, I’m working hard not to assume that everyone sucks.

  • I would have to say my flying monkey was my son. The first time I found out about my exhole husband cheating, my college aged son was home. He was an audience to my “crazy” and yelling for my ex to leave the house. He wanted to talk to his father and see what the hell was going on. When he came back he tried to convince me that dad just had a friend, someone he could talk to, he loved me and I was being hysterical. I had to convince him this wasn’t his fight and he didn’t understand that married men can not have “special friends” that they keep a secret from their spouse.

    I felt using my son was such a such a terrible thing. He was young and didn’t really understand the enormity of the situation. My ex was being abusive to him as well as me.

    As an update, I am divorced and my relationship with my son is great. I think he sees his for what he is, and has a decent relationship with him.

  • His mother showed up during our one-week wreckonciliation and tried to physically drag him out of the house to where OW, our former au pair, waited downstairs. I called the police. I’m left far more in shock by exMIL’s behavior than by his.

    • And yet in a weird way, she was doing you a favor.

      Would that all mothers of fuckwits would come to our houses and drag them out forever.

      • Amen. I wish anyone would come drag klootzak away. I knew I had broken my emotional ties to him when I 1) no longer cared to snoop as I just trusted that he sucked, 2) never missed him when he was gone – actually looked forward to it, and 3) prayed every night that he would run off with one of the OW. I wished them no ill will at all. I wished they would get what they deserve. I told him to his face that good luck to any person who decided they wanted to take up with him permanently.

        • Aaaaaand this is where I’m currently at. I’ve stopped snooping because…what’s the damn point. I’m relieved when he’s not around me. And I’ve actually hoped that his Troll is still around because it’ll make me walking out the door that much easier (for both of us).

          The kids and I should be in a new place by the end of November.
          Adios, Fuckface.

          • Congrats, Chainsaw. Have been following your story and am relieved to hear you’ve found a way out. Reading your letter and comments, it’s apparent your resourcefulness and mightiness are abundant – as are the limited resources and shit sandwiches you’re dealing with. Seemed to me you knew what you had to do all along but we’re spinning your wheels to find a compromise that would be acceptable and safe for you and your kids. Leaving an abusive relationship, without financial stability, with kids, in a pandemic, is really tough. I admire you.

            When the (natural and justified) urge to snoop hit me for the final period of wreckonciliation, I already had more than enough evidence. To ground myself in reality and my values, I learned to focus on the following questions:
            1. What am I trying to learn that I don’t already know?
            2. What do I want in a relationship? Is this it?
            3. Can I feel safe with this person? Can I respect and love this person?

            My answers showed me that snooping and finding more evidence was not the solution to my problems. It was just a hopium-induced distraction, disguised as a problem I could “solve.” This let me see I needed to bite the bullet and find a way out, and building the courage and financial/emotional/psychological resources for that became my focus. I also reminded myself that I was far above my loser ex and his loser APs. While they had dragged me into their “relationships,” I had never consented and until recently, had never even known. I wanted nothing to do with any of it. It wasn’t that I was ashamed of the urge to take control by revealing the “truth” (fucking gaslighting sucks); that seemed perfectly normal. I just liked remembering who I was, even though I’d been lost in the fog. It was empowering to hold my head up and go back to the “before” version of myself. I wasn’t who he “made” me, and it felt good to reconnect with different parts of me – even in small ways. After dday and in the escalating abuse that followed, I’d become nearly unrecognizable to myself.

      • And sew him curtains for his new apartment as a separated father. Poor whittle ????

  • Those f’ing flying monkeys that helped the ex disentangle with the hope that I would never find out and buy his story of “growing apart”.

    The two who “gave” him the money to buy a 2 million dollar apartment for the happy couple and allowed him to lie about it at deposition. The ex gave them the funds out of a hidden stash and they then “lent” it to him. Money laundering that couldn’t be proven.

    The one who swore that an asset I received during settlement had value. After the divorce I received notice that the asset no longer had value and that too much time had gone by for me to do anything legally.

    My nephew who supposedly was sleeping on my ex’s couch in an apartment we rented for when the ex had to stay over because of late night/early morning work. Nephew was actually living there alone and knew my ex and the AP where shacking up. He was being paid by my ex to keep his mouth shut. Lovely thing to ask of my 20-something nephew.

    I confronted my nephew and actually did shame him. Haven’t spoken to him since. He has his own issues.

    One of the men who “lent” the ex the apartment down payment got his due. As soon as the ink was dry on the stipulation of settlement, I called his insanely lovely wife and told her all kinds of dirt about her husband. Didn’t destroy her marriage but pissed the husband off royally.

    The third guy is a mess all on his own.

    But I don’t revisit the flying monkey issues (except for this prompt). I’m a badass, single woman who got a life and am doing my own flying high and soaring to new heights every day! No monkey suit needed.
    Ding, dong the witch and her monkeys are dead – choked on my broom dust!

  • Our mutual friends, a couple we had been close with for years, invited me out for dinner 7 months after D-Day when I kicked him out.

    I thought they wanted to be supportive. Instead they grilled me the whole time about what I was doing and whether I was dating. Ugh!

    • I was seated next to one of my aunts at a family dinner, and she asked where Mr. Sleazy was. I said he had moved across the country and that I was no longer seeing him. She then spent about five minutes telling me (and pretty much everyone at the whole table, because she is loud even after one drink) how very sexy she thought he was.
      Not sure if she meant to be a flying monkey, but it did feel like she was either rubbing salt in the wound, or trying to get me to get back with him, or trying to figure out if he was available for her to date. Ew!!

  • If I sit down and really think for a moment, I think I escaped the orbit of any flying monkeys and for that I am grateful. FW is enough; thank goodness I never ended up with any of his minions in my story!

    The reason for this, I suppose, is my non-confrontational nature, or, as I used to think of it, my cowardice. When the D-Days bombed my world, I retreated to my bomb shelter and cut myself off from the world as much as possible to wallow in absolute misery. To those on the outside, well, that was no fun. Now, FW and his AP… that was fun! In those early days of “I don’t know how to cut myself off from his social media,” I learned pretty quickly who would rather take selfies at the bar with FW and his Mistress. It hurt seeing folks that I knew as “our friends” quickly become “FW/GF’s” friends but I also didn’t want to demand that anyone take sides. If they wanted to be on the “fun side” of FW’s affairs, I wouldn’t stop them. I began to cull my social media contacts; I
    didn’t want to see those heartbreaking photos anymore. I began to systematically distance myself from those people–not hatefully so (I never called them out or sent them any “how dare you?” messages)–by, well, never talking to them again. I think the message was well received because none of our friends who ended up only being his friend ever reached out to perform any flying monkey or spy work for him. All his monkeys, even his parents, for the most part, just left me alone. No one wanted to look at the misery he left behind; they’d rather enjoy the good times ahead that he promised.

    I won’t say my strategy of crawling into a hole so all the flying monkeys would leave me alone was a total success for me. Yes, the monkeys didn’t bother me and, for the large part, never did (I theorize that it’s because I struck them as such a pathetic, sorrowful, miserable figure that there was no point in flying around me), but my behaviour also turned off and actively shooed off Switzerland friends who, in turn, became FW/Wifetress’s friends (no worry or great loss there) and friends who were on “my side” as well. I lost a couple of good friends who were furious with FW and still to this day are not in contact with him… but after awhile, they also broke off contact with me as well, not wanting to have anything to do with either of us, I suppose.

    So, “crawl into a hole so no one can find you or want to have anything to do with you” had some major upsides (the flying monkeys never found me or cared to find me! huge upswing!) but I also lost some old friends who decided to leave the trauma that was FW and me behind, which is, admittedly, kindof a huge bummer. I’m still connected with these… I’ll call them “exasperated friends” on social media and our relationships aren’t icy or cold, but they are uncomfortable and distant.

    Was it worth it? Erecting that shield that chased off friend and foe alike? I’m not the kind of person who needs a lot of friends or a large social circle (that’s FW; he’s very social and extroverted), so, in the end, yeah… I’d say that it was worth it. I’m not proud off everything I did when I was in that pit of misery that shielded me from the attentions of nearly everyone, but when I think of all the monkeys that circled around FW, I think of how lucky I am that they didn’t even bother with me. I had misery of my own to manage; I didn’t need his flying monkeys making more work for me.

    Let them ignore me, take selfies at the bar with him, and take him and Wifetress out on “this is our new family now” vacations. I didn’t need the distractions; I was too busy rolling up my sleeves, crawling out of that hole, and building a new, smaller but infinitely more stable life on solid ground with no monkeys to distract me. To this day, I’m still doing this work and it is boring, self-reflective work. Monkeys don’t like either of those things. 😉

    • Fourleaf,
      I’m new to CN. Your words about retreat and living in a bomb shelter make sense to me. Thank you. I’ve felt such shame around that, about living in a corner and hiding from the world. I couldn’t understand why walking outside was a chore, especially when we lived in a beautiful house near a beach. Your analogy to a bomb shelter sums it up and offers a more compassionate way to frame what I was doing. Not weak, but rather strong. Hmmm.

    • Great use of grey rock Fourleaf! It’s hard enough to keep it together for your kids when going through a major life upheaval. No need to deal with flying monkeys on top of it all. It’s also exhausting work and a depressing situation so it’s understandable. Be kind to yourself, mighty can take many forms.

      I didn’t really have to deal with flying monkeys after my FW walked out. I realized then that I was right to not like his friends. I used to feel guilty about it, but the fact is they were jerks and I don’t miss them.

      On the other hand I discovered how badass all my divorced and recently widowed lady friends were and they were a great support and lifted me up when I was down. And CL and CN!

    • I’m another one that tends to retreat into my pit of despair when things are completely fucked. It’s just how I tend to deal with things when everything is turned upside-down. Always have. An ex-friend of mine knew how I was and would always come around for ‘well checks’ when she hadn’t heard from me for a period of time. She’d always say, “You dropped off the face of the Earth again- what’s going on??!” Sadly, she was also very two-faced and I had to cut that friendship out of my life some years ago.

      My parents know that I do this as well and that I don’t really talk to anyone when things are bad because I don’t like lying about what’s really going on and I don’t like dumping things on them or sharing my personal business with people in general. So they’re good about giving me my space when they see that I need it.

      My STBX doesn’t really have many flying monkeys- his own sisters and mother, as well as 2 of his children, don’t even talk to him anymore. So I’m not super worried about it, thank goodness. Any that DO show up are getting an earful. I’ve been through too much to deal with any more bullshit.

    • Thank you for sharing that perspective, Fourleaf. It resonates with my experience. In many respects my life is lonely but it is peaceful and I am not scared any more. The ex had cause to think that I might have someone new in my life. A male flying monkey suddenly sent me a text. This person was my friend before ex arrived in the city where we both lived. The text was the first contact in 15 months. The text was pleasant enough. I left it a couple of days and responded, again in a pleasant enough and relatively bland way. No response at all! Not even a ‘good to hear’. I have been strictly no contact with the ex since I found out about the affair 2 months after he left me. The ex has commonly used mutual friends to pass on information and to get information. Most of the mutual friends went in his direction. I dropped others who I had never liked very much. One or two remain, but they understand my boundaries and tell the ex nothing. I am appreciating that I need to stay open to new friends. Trust is an issue.

    • Fourleaf, you seem like the strong, silent type to me! Maybe you’re an introvert?

      Either way, it’s not cowardice to be non-confrontational and seek shelter when you’re seriously wounded. It’s instinct. Freshly traumatized people don’t take selfies or make lunch dates.

      Betrayal breaks people into little pieces, and the work of rebuilding is not for cowards or weaklings. You responded to an emotional gut punch with dignity and strength. Be proud of that.

  • Sadly, pretty much everyone around me was a flying monkey….my parents, his entire family, my “best friends”, the smoochie Nieghbor who he cheated on me with (then later married), smoochie “friends” who he cheated on me with, the other next door neighbor, the family therapist, our business partners, etc. It was a ROYAL FUCKING NIGHTMARE! Everything you can fucking think of and these asshats did it for my fucking ex….harassment (check), bullying (check), character assignation (check), blow up my financial income (check), convincing the court that he should be custodial parent and I should only visit my kids (check) – THANK GOD a guardian ad litem got involved who was a licensed psychiatrist and specialized in Narcs. He figured out what was happening…the lies, the flying monkeys, the controlling nature of my ex and saved me and my kids!!!! – Every area of my life kept blowing up over and over again for years – during the divorce, after the divorce, during a 2 year custody battle, but it’s finally STOPPED!

    Why? I purged and set boundaries with everyone that fucked me over (including my family). During this purging process, I realized that I allowed all of these toxic people into my all areas of life time and time again in work, family, friends, church, therapist, etc. I attracted narcissistic/toxic people because that was my norm. I did not have good boundaries or knowledge of what healthy people acted like because I didn’t know as I grew up in a very toxic/narc family dynamic. In a nutshell, I was fucking programmed to be overly nice and to put up with these assholes shit at my expense. So, I changed my story by purging all toxic people out of my life (including quitting my corporate job cold turkey without a backup….I was constantly harassed and threatened to be blacklisted for not having a sexual relationship), educating myself on toxic behaviors, red flags, setting boundaries (which I still do daily), and I surrounded myself with only good people. This process SAVED my life!!!

    I found a job with a fabulous group in the high end restaurant world, making DOUBLE what I was making in corporate. I set major boundaries around my toxic family members and “friends” including going no contact and grey rock. The ones I do have to engage with – it’s palatable and cordial. I’ve blocked the other minions in every way I can. It’s been a huge relief to finally have a healthy life!!!????

    Oh! And, the other plus – the Karma Bus has hit my ex and some of the other assholes right between the eyes! Everything from my ex was physically beaten by the next door smoochie (and now divorced), his asshat dad who would stalk me and follow me around town on his time off from work (he lived 2 states away) had a stroke, one of the other smoochies (who was a best friend) that my ex cheated with found out her husband was cheating on her through the Ashley Madison site and spent thousands of dollars on his flings….the list goes on and on. ????????

    I am so grateful to not have to deal with these asshats anymore and that I figured out the secret to why they were in every area of my life. Now when I see toxic behaviors in a person I quietly distance myself and let that person go. It’s a huge relief!!!

    • Fantastic! I’m like you were – problematically nice. I am a heavy lifter with steel nerves (didn’t prevent me from falling apart at the dismantling of my life unfortunately) and busy hands so unknown to me I attracted users and those with personality issues. I’m now working on taking no sh!t

    • Southern Chump,
      How did the changes in your viewpoint and behavior come about? What tools did you use to find clarity and the strength to identify and create your boundaries? What was the process like? How long did it take?
      You are mighty and I wish you all the good things!

  • I agree. And whether that someone else becomes the one or not after the D, they were enough to leacve the marriage for. For whatever reason.

    Unfortunately for chumps they don’t reveal their hidden lives until they have had enough time to bond with adultery partner and detach from spouse.

    I also think most of the time “ONSs” are not ONSs at all; they just got caught before they were ready to walk.

    I think true ONSs are just almost never caught. And they are rare.

    I just base it on all the stuff I have read. Some time ago I was reading a site where most of the folks are trying to reconcile; it is heartbreaking the hoops (mostly women) will jump through to believe their cheater was only in an “EA”, or he rented the room but when she showed up he couldn’t go through with it, etc.

    I want to scream wake up. But they won’t; nor would I have if he had tried to feed me a line of shit when I was still doubled over with pain. You just want that pain to stop so bad you will do or believe most anything.

  • The harpie skanks she worked with. All married, all egging her on and gaslighting me when a caught wind of the betrayal. To this day I see some of them out with their husbands and with to let the poor bastards know what kind of belly crawlers they’re married to

  • Almost everyone I knew became a flying Monkey including my brother and son. One incident that comes to mind is a few months before Dday ex insisted on buying me a BMW for my birthday. I didn’t want the BMW, my vehicle was paid for and I didn’t need a new car. He said that if I didn’t accept his “gift” that I was insulting him. So, I reluctantly accepted his gift. My neighbors were more excited about my birthday gift than I was. They asked if I’d give them rides in the car which I did. During the divorce ex asked that I repay him for the car, that I hounded him until he couldn’t take it anymore so he bought the BMW. The judge said that if I could get someone to verify that the car was a gift then I wouldn’t need to repay ex for the car. No problem, my son knew it was a gift and I could always ask the neighbors to verify the car was my birthday gift. I called everyone of my neighbors who came over to see my birthday gift and who told me I should accept my husbands gift, the neighbors I gave rides to the day I drove it home. They all came down with a sudden case of amnesia. Including my son. No one could recall the car being a gift. I ended up having to give ex the money for my very expensive birthday gift I didn’t want.

    • I’m so sorry. It sounds like you were dealing with some very nasty pre-mediated intent on your ex-husband’s part. Its really scary. So glad you’re free. The injustice of their behaviour is so horrible and hard to bare. Realising one was living with someone capable of such behaviour is chilling. To all new chumps out there, look out for this stuff. Its deliberate. Its damaging. And its totally, totally unacceptable. Take care Brit, you’re free. What a monster. Its a testimony to your goodness that you didn’t run him over with it!!

    • So sorry Brit. <3 Talk about gas lighting. This is what happens when people are conditioned to believe the abuser's script.

    • He is pure evil. The universe will see this is corrected.

      As for the others, there really are no words.

      Hugs and love!

  • Most of the flying monkeys have come from his family. According to his narrative, I filed because I was having an affair. Sorry, just is not true. I had to get my ducks in a row and filed seven weeks after DDay#2. Thankfully, I found CL and CN between DDay 1 and 2. Went grey rock with flying monkeys and then blocked them and no contact. FWs story has changed time and time again. He did some great story telling with DDay 1 and I took the bait for a while and entered the RIC. After that experience and being told I had to take my share of the blame (eat more shit sandwiches), I saw that was fruitless. After DDay 2, I knew what I had to do. He can spew his narrative all he wants, my family, my son, my lawyer and I know the truth. His lies are catching up because he constantly changes the story. Now some of the monkeys are seeing the light but I am not entertaining their attempts at contact. Flying monkeys are not welcome. Circle of friends is a lot smaller but also a lot safer. Thanks to CL and CN for opening my eyes and helping me to make good decisions and establish boundaries.

    • “Circle of friends is a lot smaller but also a lot safer.”
      This is no small thing and definitely something chumps should be striving for.

  • Let’s see….. my ex MIL( a drunk and a cheater herself…. unknown to me at the time) hosted the dick ( whose birthday it happens to be today????) and whoever he happened to be effing that week, at her house for overnights…..while I was home with 3 kids keeping up the appearance of the happy family for him. She told my daughter last week that the reason her precious son”was forced” to divorce me was that I wouldn’t have sex with him. Riiigggghhhhttt……my kids know what’s what. There’s not enough room here to tell the thousands of ways that Beyotch covers for her sleezy, drunken kids. It’s a little (ok, a lot) disheartening that outwardly things seem to be going so well for them.

    • Correction…she said the reason he “was forced to cheat” on me was that I wouldn’t have sex with him.???? I filed for divorce when he finally left for #whatever.

  • My SIL has always been the biggest flying monkey. When he had a burner phone, he had the hard copy bills sent to her house. She always like to remind me that I was never a “blood” (insert surname here) because I only married her brother. They would high five each other when she would say that. She was blood and I was not. He would fly to her house on vacation time, supposedly to visit his elderly grandmother, but then – whoops! – she would also have one of his old high school girlfriends staying at her house visiting at the same time and they would get drunk and SIL would go to bed early, leaving him to have “deep conversations“ with the latest piece of meat she had brought for him to fuck. Add to that, I found back when I was snooping that he is really into erotica stories of sibling incest. Gross.

    She has acted jealous of me from the day we met. He enjoyed triangulating me against her so while I was paying attention to her drama, he was managing his pussy buffet with everyone and anyone he could find. Old girlfriends, bar flys, Tinder, craigslist, you name it. His hook ups ranged from 20 years younger than him to 20 years older than him. Looks didn’t matter; kibbles did. And heaven help me if I didn’t keep up my looks. The wife appliance was all for show. I’m sure SIL knew he needed me to be president of the milspouses’ club to help further his floundering career. But she has been more than willing to help him be a pervert and then tries to text and contact me saying he is crazy and she wants to sue him and all else, just to see if I say anything she can report back to him. SIL is a snake in the grass.

    • Omg! That’s disgusting. You should write a screenplay … it would sell on the ID or Lifetime Channel.

    • I had a SIL who was nasty to me for 30 years. She mistakenly thought I was raised wealthy (my parents spent into debt to look rich, but we had less than nothing) and decided to punish me for it. She was an enemy of our marriage from the get-go.

      She was a shrew in every interaction with her but it escalated during her Bridezilla wedding. Years later her marriage was destroyed when it appears that she cheated.

      I came to learn that her dream was world travel which has never come to fruition with her bad decisions keeping her squarely in the country she was born in. I have travelled to 15 countries in the last 10 years and often take family members (who cant afford to travel) as my full paid guests. Golly, guess who has never been invited to join in the fun? She chose the wrong person to piss off.

    • Before I finished reading your first paragraph, I thought “she’s creepily involved in her brother’s sex life, isn’t she ?”. And then you nailed it. ????????????

    • Well your XSIL is complete and irredeemable trash. And your XFW sounds like mine in his criteria for women: “ranged from 20 years younger than him to 20 years older than him. Looks didn’t matter; kibbles did.” So weird. A couple of them were VERY unattractive and a couple of them were straight out of the gutter whereas we (well, I guess just “I”) were your typical middle class suburban folks. T&A is the only qualifying criteria. Nothing else is a deal breaker. Gross.

  • I had none. Mostly because I don’t do social media, and ex was always extremely careful to keep me away from his friends and coworkers, probably because he was off doing things he shouldn’t be doing and didn’t want to risk me knowing it. The closest thing I got was when my teenager went to visit my ex’s family for the summer and his uncle tried to get him to listen to my ex’s side of the story by asking him why he did what he did. I felt that was a big invasion of my privacy, because a 15 year old shouldn’t have to listen to his father whinging about about how unhappy he was in his marriage to his mum. Whatever justification my ex might have to his behaviour was between me and him, and it was pointless anyway.

  • My mom. She stayed in touch with Best Regards in spite of me telling her I didn’t want her to (and in spite of her counseling ME to go NC with him, WTF…), and she occasionally violates my boundaries by telling me things he’s doing or told her. I have had to reset the boundary with her twice so far in 2 years. I cut her some slack this last time because my stepdad just died really traumatically, and she was telling me what a nice note Best Regards sent her and all the details… But enough is enough; if she does it again, I’m going to have to say, just like she did to me when I was a kid, “I’ve asked you twice not to do this. If you do it again, I’m going to have to stop talking to you for a while since it will be clear at that point that I you’re refusing to honor the boundaries I’ve set to keep myself healthy and safe.”

  • My sister-in-law.

    My ex and she are trauma bonded after growing up with an alcoholic mother and a cheating father who abandoned them with her so he could move in with his grad student cheating partner. For most of our marriage she saw me as competition and would-be usurper of her primary place in my ex’s affections and loyalty. (She need not have worried; in my ex’s eyes she always came first.)

    After we’d been married about 25 years, my s-i-l’s son was killed in Afghanistan, and I provided her with a lot of compassion and advice based on what I’d learned about sudden and violent death from the suicide of my father, and she starting seeing me as something other than competition and an inconvenient and unwanted appendage to her brother.

    When my ex told her we were divorcing, she actually said that like me she didn’t want to “lose family,” so I thought she had some appreciation of what I was going through. But she quickly revealed herself to be the ex’s flying monkey in service to his “we grew apart” narrative when she sent me an email in which she told me that no one needed to know the reason for our divorce, particularly not parents and children, couched in fake concern of what would make my life easier going forward. Once I got over the hurt of her urging me to lie for my own sake (as it were), I realized that 1) early in her own marriage she’d cheated on her husband (who took her back), and 2) she was not my friend.

    From the distance of 2000 miles we have continued to maintain the polite fiction that we are still family, in the form of support for each other’s children and a small exchange of gifts at Christmas. Last year I sent her a Christmas ornament from Calamityware that has flying monkeys on it…so I’m thinking it’s time to drop the pretense.

    • OMG you sent her flying monkey Calamityware?!?!?! BOSS~!!!!!!! I also love Calamityware… but you used it as secret message, like the way Victorians used the language of flowers! Hats off to YOU! MIGHTY!

      • That is boss…I love it.

        One year, I found a sale at Tiffany with a lovely vase for $35 but it looked really expensive. It was at Christmastime after she had been particularly heinous. I waited to the last minute where the vase would arrive right at the holiday (from Tiffany full-on with blue box and white bow) and she would have no time to reciprocate. I knew it would puzzle and confuse her but she would never have the humility to ask about it. I decided it was worth $35 to perplex her while appearing gracious. I was smug with pleasure over it.

  • couple friends came to dinner not long after X moved out and told me they didn’t take sides in marital breakups, etc. etc., and asked me a buncha questions that i answered neutrally. then they encouraged me to “just sign the separation agreement and be done with it, so everyone can move on”.

    i politely said, “i’ll sign the separation agreement when i’m ready to do so, and have fully considered/negotiated the constituent parts involved (like pensions. holy hell. i broke out into a rash over pensions)”. then i stood up and cleared the table.

    now that i think of it, their marriage came about in a tumultuous way and their kids (from first marriages) didn’t talk to them for several years never mind attend the marriage ceremony, so who knows?

    the truth is that COVID has provided a buffer for lotsa interactions with community, etc.etc. and i have a posse of friends, near and far, that are there for me. i don’t need gibbons.

  • Yes, it was the “God hates all divorce” crowd.

    It doesn’t matter what is going on at home, just don’t get divorced. Period. Ever.

    Except when I looked into the “God hates divorce” part of the Bible in Malachi, it didn’t say what I expected. It talked about treacherous men who were cruelly divorcing their wives. Oh, and God is a divorcee. He divorced Israel. So how can he hate something he did?

    Then when my attorney and I were weighing a protective order because of things my ex said to his attorney, I went to a risk assessment specialist to help me work through what I wanted to do. Note that it was ultimately my choice, but she was there to weigh what I experienced and to determine statistically what the probabilities were. If we had done that, her analysis would have been useful in court. And I did indeed score high on the risk scale, but we did not go forward and took out everything requiring ongoing contact and pushed hard to settle out of court. Our gut was that it was best just to get it done. At the signing, my attorney made me promise to be all business during closeout and then ghost my ex. So I did.

    I no longer argue or explain with the “God hates all divorce” crowd. I’ve gotten good at, “That’s not up for discussion. Let’s talk about ….” It’s insane to think that not getting divorced is more important than the emotional and physical safety of the non-disordered party.

  • My flying monkeys were the people, who after I first filed for divorce some twenty-three years ago, took it upon themselves to convince me that choosing to raise my daughters in a single parent household while their father was a good and remorseful man who didn’t deserve to be separated from his children, was tantamount to heresy.

    I specifically remember one kind and well meaning older man, who has since passed away, telling me that I needed to reach deep inside myself and find forgiveness in my heart. And that my daughters would forever resent and never forget it was I who had sent their father away. Did I say kind and well meaning? I meant to say busy body asshole.

    I want to vomit when I look back now and think about that time. I had moved him out into a house of his own. I had settled quite comfortably into a healthy routine of caring first for myself so I could provide the best possible care for my young daughters. I was sooooo close, just weeks before the divorce was to be final when those danged monkeys started circling my house and dropping their not-so-subtle “you are going to regret this” shit bombs in my lap.

    None of them have dared to reach out to me since my very recent divorce was published in the local paper. Not that I would want them to…

    • “I specifically remember one kind and well meaning older man, who has since passed away, telling me that I needed to reach deep inside myself and find forgiveness in my heart”

      I really hate these platitudes, particularly when they come from people who are well, well, well removed from the situation and can’t even begin to fathom what the experience (that they are advising you on) is like. It’s like not owning a uterus but thinking you’re the authority on how folks with uteruses should think and act.

      These platitudes on forgiveness and marriage (speaking in generalizations) are all over social media too. A Facebook friend once posted a meme about how a divorced couple always made sure to go to their kid’s soccer games together and how these (theoretical) divorced parents, and their new partners, would all celebrate Christmas together because “they were willing to make that sacrifice because nothing’s more important than building a solid family for your children” (or some other variation on that theme). The photo showed a mixed group of adults and happy children all sitting around a Christmas tree.

      While we can never really see inside other people’s lives, I feel it’s safe to say that the person who posted this was been happily married with children for nearly twenty years. They still are. But this “you are selfish if you don’t make things work out somehow for the children!” or “you are the one who has to find forgiveness in your heart and do the hard work of keeping the person who doesn’t care about you in your life” memery drives me bananas. Absolutely bananas.

      I want to normalize the idea that we don’t have to “open our hearts” or forgive people. I want to normalize the idea that we can stop talking to certain people without being labeled as bitter or unforgiving monsters. And I want well-meaning, naive, busybodies to stop gently forcing FWs back into our lives.

      • Fourleaf, I couldn’t agree more!
        When I packed a bag and walked out on dday this past July, I knew exactly who my safe harbors were. I filed and finalized the divorce without anyone outside of those individuals knowing. There was no way I was going to invite the flying monkeys back to rip out my straw…

  • OMG, the flying monkeys. FW’s mother is one, of course. My lawyer even asked who she was when she was reviewing some of his concerning Facebook posts and noted that his mom was totally enabling him. No surprise there. I’ve noticed that all his flying monkeys are women. One of his work friends gleefully called me a “fat cow”, which was a bit of a strange comment given that I was a size 4 when she said it. Another flying monkey was a former friend who I confided the abuse to. Her response was to tell me that I should have been nicer to him, and that must have been why we divorced (I was the one who filed for divorce) and to go to parties he hosted. She was surprised and acted hurt when I blocked her on Facebook out of concern for my safety. I’ve realized that I don’t miss the flying monkeys that I’ve cut out of my life all that much. I thought I’d miss his family, but I really don’t.

    • Fat shaming is like slut-shaming. It’s used against women broadly because it’s one of those things you can’t really defend yourself (or another woman) from. Just having it whispered somehow implies truth.

      If someone thinks you’re fat, you are to them. If someone thinks you’re a slut, you probably are (goes the notion)

      I still recall the Obama years, when it was right and proper to talk about how Michelle Obama was morbidly obese.

      Bad body = bad woman.

        • Right? In my experience, the people who insisted Michelle Obama was obese have been people who just don’t like Black bodies. You know the type. Racists. I’m talking about racists.

          • Ugh. Michelle Obama was a shining light ???? to a lot of people, when she had that position as First Lady. She did an amazing job, I’m sure it was a tense time for her!

    • Classy. Gleefully calling anyone a “fat cow” is strange, period!

      I also had a friend who I confided in about the abuse and who turned out to be a flying monkey, Schrodinger’s Chump. She is one of a very small handful of close friends and family who knows my ex was physically abusive, and she was there through much of the emotional abuse – even witnessing/getting involved in some of it first hand. She would make insensitive, blameshifty comments that really bothered me, but I was too chumpy then to trust my gut about her. Then, the week after I left, she and her (total FW) partner invited sad sack over for dinner. I decided then that anyone who knew about the abuse and continued their friendship with my ex anyway was no friend of mine. Establishing those criteria and a firm boundary helped me with some really hard decisions, when I cut out people who meant even more to me. I suppose identifying and removing flying monkeys and Switzerland from my life (and not feeling guilty and apologizing/explaining it) has given me an opportunity to work on my picker without taking the risk of getting romantically involved with anyone.

  • His carpool buddy. This guy was an out and out sociopath who, I later found out, had been convicted of attempted murder. He was a severe alcoholic who manipulated my weakling fuckwit into being his drinking buddy. You know, the old boo hoo I don’t have any good friends and I’m lonely, please come have a drink with me deal. He didn’t have any good friends because he’s a piece of shit, but fuckwit is into not being “judgy” and has almost no boundaries or genuine values. He was easily manipulated by people more disordered than him, because he admired them for being brazen with their dysfunctional behavior, whereas he is more covert. Naturally this prick was a cheater as well and encouraged fuckwit to cheat. So they were flying monkeys to each other.

    There were others. One was a friend he had known since high school, a grandiose narc as well as an alcoholic. He encouraged fuckwit in disrespecting and making fun of me, in getting drunk, and he tried to get fuckwit to go on trips with him and another flying monkey buddy instead of with me. He succeeded twice until I put my foot down. All of these friends were trying to destroy our marriage, as was OW. I assume it was because they were afraid of losing him as an enabler to their own drinking and dysfunction. I’m a lifelong non-drinker and have zero interest in a self-indulgent party lifestyle, which they made fun of me for. I was known in their circle as a bore, a nagging wife, and not cool. Yeah, come and tell me that when your livers fail, losers.

    Fuck all these people. I wish them nothing but the misery they deserve, and I know I’m getting my wish.

  • The flying monkey’s show starring:
    -His longtime female “friend” who was at my wedding and visited frequently and was – surprise – more than a friend.
    -The shared circle of activist/feminist/anti-toxic masculinity “friends” who continued to collaborate with him knowing he’d abused and nearly destroyed me, because he was still a great guy and down for the cause.
    -A few close female friends on mine, who were eager to play Switzerland, call on him for help or to offer help, because they didn’t want to take sides (and bc he was a very good-looking guy they’d been drooling over for years.)
    -a former friend I’d had a falling out with who couldn’t wait to glom onto him and outright make up lies about me in an effort to get him into bed after our break up.
    – his best friend who covered for his cheating escapades who’s now headed to prison, while my ex fuckwad is romancing his wife behind his back.

    Few people wanted to take sides bc the cheater had lots of social capital. They opted to keep open access to his goodies, easily convinced I was the problem, not his relentless hooker, tinder, porn addictions and pathological lying.

    I’ve learned who my real friends are and they aren’t always who I thought they were, nor as numerous. The trash has thrown itself out. Painful though it’s been, I trust he and his monkeys suck. The schadenfreude I have is next level. Not sorry about it either.

  • Favorite flying monkeys? Oh, that has to be the folks who circulated rumors that I planned to burn down the historic church building … I worked in historic preservation at the time.

    It was so wildly unlikely, well, I can’t even come up with an analogy. And, I thought these people were my friends. And, I only found out because I was mistakenly cc’d on an email. Maude only knows what else they were saying.

  • My sister-in-law. This one stings because she was my best friend and the godmother of all my kids. She was very supportive soon after D-day but as more light was shed on her brother’s dark side (prostitutes, STDs, stealing, fraud, etc), she just dumped me and went full no-contact. I remember what shut her off: his positive STD tests. I think that made her decide that she didn’t want to know anymore. She was very honest and self-aware in her awfulness: “I don’t believe you, because if all of that is true, then something is wrong with him. And if there is something is wrong with him, then it must be because of how we were raised (father was physically abusive). If it is because of how we were raised, then something is wrong with me too.” I mean she gets a standing ovation for self-reflection and self-psychoanalysis…but she still made a very conscious choice to side with what’s terrible but familiar. I’m glad she went NC on me, but she keeps communicating with my children, saying things like “We love you all but we have lost our love for your mom.” God, I hate her.

    • She gets a standing ovation for being a weak ass bitch, a COWARD. So sorry. There clearly is something wrong with her-low character.

    • What an evil and completely unnecessary thing for her to say to your children. She could just keep her fucking mouth shut about you.

      Clearly there is something very, very wrong with her. She got that part right.

      • Immature flying monkey hero worshippers really can’t keep their mouths shut. And it’s. a shame.

    • Easier to say it must be Chumpupthejam than honestly look at herself.

      In her head it goes like this:
      Cutj must have been cheating that’s why the stds. Her brother doesn’t have a dark side. Cutj is the problem…

      We lost our love…

      You can say that again. Shallow fuckwit enablers.

    • I’m not sure how you’ve managed to deal with that one. We’ve lost our love – yup, she’s right – there is something wrong with her too.

  • The flying monkeys all supported ex even when ex’s victims came forward and directly told said monkeys about the rapes. Several of those victims were minors at the time. That’s all I have to say on the flying monkeys.

  • My ex MIL who would do ANYTHING for her son (who was an absentee father during our marriage and had literally never been alone with all three children at the same time until he left) to ensure he’d get 50/50 custody. She picked the kids up from school, took the kids for dinner on all of his evenings, had them for overnights without his notifying me (in violation of our interim agreement), and went with him everywhere he took the kids because he couldn’t handle them on his own. She also helped him spread the typical lies about me being a terrible wife and mother and that’s the reason he had to leave – not the 25 year old intern he moved right in with. My ex left himself logged into his email on my laptop after he moved out – so of course in the early days I looked and I had a glimpse of the cruel things she’d say to him about me and how he should make things harder for me and how I deserved none of “his” money after all “his” hard work. Fun. This was the same woman who until the day he left told me every day what a wonderful mother I was and how her son was lucky to have me taking care of the children while he was focused on his career. It’s been five years and it still hurts that she didnt just stay neutral, she actively sought to help him destroy me emotionally.

      • He has actually referred to himself as a “pillar of the community” in court and I wouldn’t be surprised if she describes him the same way.

        • “Pillar of the community” is one of the descriptors that always gives me pause. Impression management ????

          Happy Fuckwit Free Friday !

  • If a flying monkey sends you a letter, Christmas card, whatever with some sort of flying monkey message, mail it back in a larger envelope seaded with a flying monkey sticker. Cafe Press has dozens of varieties of flying monkey stickers. My favorite is the one with skulls all over it. If they can’t figure out what it means, then they are too stupid to worry about, anyway.

    • Shortly after D-Day, when I dumped FW, he started posting pictures of me on Facebook. Pictures he had taken from my profile. As if we were still together. He never posted anything on Facebook, so all his friends are “liking” it and commenting. (I’ve done blocked him, his friends, and his family).

      I was pissed and I didn’t want to contact him, so I emailed his brother thinking he could talk sense into him.

      Instead, the FW brother laid into me because his brother fucked up and was trying so hard. As if my consequences were too harsh of a reaction to a year of cheating.


      “It seems to me as if your having some fun grinding FW under your heel and enjoying it a little too much.
      He’s taken his medicine pretty decently and now it’s your turn to start behaving in an adult manner.,

      Remember he deeply regrets what he has done and is working on it.,
      And FWbrother says you are not done-if you were your wouldn’t have contacted me.”

      Ha! He was so wrong. I was done. I never smoked that hopium, never succumbed to the hoovering.

      I did respond: “You all underestimated me.”

  • Agh, I’m not even religious but I felt like Mia Farrow in Rosemary’s Baby surrounded by weirdsly freaks with agendas, unsettling vibes and a distinct sulfur smell. FW even tried to get me on sedatives at one point to squash my raging intuition and eerily accurate nightmares.

    As for these flying monkeys, the main one was FW’s lesbian “work wife” who looked exactly like Alfred E. Neuman and apparently was, like, you know, super feminist and stuff (yep, sure), yelled at people for not voting for Hillary (hero of the democratic process!) and got herself ensconced in her profession’s sexual assault prevention committee.

    Having battled harassment for my whole career, I know fake feminists from the real deals and I knew this particular type of faker all too well: the pseudo libby, proto-feminist women who either aren’t in demand for bangmaid services or, due to orientation, don’t sleep with men but still manage to give symbolic handies all the same. They often end up in corporate HR because they act as gate-keepers against taking action on harassment and assault reports from other women. They feign feminism but suck up to and play pimp and cover up squad for the worst offending men and wet-blanket actual victims.

    Think Roger Ailses’ secretary in “Bombshell.” They’re never particularly nice to non-offending men to boot, so my guess is this type is not solely pragmatic in their machinations but kind of psychopathic, drawn to evil and excited by victimizing others. They mean harm but ut’s all “unconscious” so sometimes harder to see through at first. They usually cheat on their own relationships and get very fidgety and itchy if conversations run a little too deep. If I’m getting really specific it’s because I’ve professionally had to deal with four like this and always started out buying the “friend to other women/social justice warrior” pose.

    Anyway, this creepy work wife in misleading plaid shirts and work boots played beard and pimp for FWs affair. She called FW “Captain” like her tradcon mom called her drunken Capitol riot-supporting dad (who paid her student loans and fancy Euro travel, no doubt in payment for, say, hiding his hooker habit). And she drank and gobbled thousands of dollars of booze and grub at the expense of my kids college funds in payment for pimp services, silence and the enabling of FW and also was “paid” in professional referrals from FW (happily this monkey failed on her own merits and the referrals didn’t help much).

    The side piece– who was frenemies with the “work wife” and nearly a clone of her– was also a type of flying monkey. She approached fw at work saying that, in order to break up with her “broke-ass” boyfriend, she wanted to have a “no strings fling” as an exit strategy– wink wink. It was an offer to be “in cahoots” which is pretty flying monkeyish.

    Of course, offering “no strings” bangmaid services was just a bait and switch. She shortly secretly (if you don’t count telling half her office pool) went off the pill in the hopes of getting pregnant and had weekly crying fits because FW wasn’t immediately dumping his family. By this she graduated from flying monkey to full proxy abuser. She called me names, literally demonized me and also gobbled and glugged down tens of thousands in marital assets.

    Thankfully, the side piece has PCOS and getting accidentally on purpose pregnant wasn’t so easy or my kids would now have a very expensive Alfred E. Neumanish half sib with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder born solely for the tragic purpose of entrapment.

    Though by now I can see the poetic justice if FW had ended up with with Cheatzilla, I’m still glad he dumped her on d-day because she cost an arm and a leg and he’s still paying off debt and having to replenish the kids’ college funds. Also I’m glad there’s been no fracas about the kids being forced into contact with someone who is not only an enabler but a dedicated abuser in her own right. If I want poetic justice, I’ll have to settle for the fact that divorced FWs don’t seem quite as popular and alluring as married ones to the flying monkey doorknob set.

    What’s hilarious was that both these monkeys later grumbled about what a chauvinist FW was once the flow of free booze stopped. I mean he IS a huge douche, no disagreement here. But it’s comedy gold that it’s coming from the financially rapey Vichy monkey squad.

    • Hell of a Chump,
      You have a gift! What descriptions! Multi-layered and all too true. I might borrow this one, “I know fake feminists from the real deals and I knew this particular type of faker all too well: the pseudo libby, proto-feminist women who either aren’t in demand for bangmaid services or, due to orientation, don’t sleep with men but still manage to give symbolic handies all the same.” Lol!

    • “Having battled harassment for my whole career, I know fake feminists from the real deals and I knew this particular type of faker all too well: the pseudo libby, proto-feminist women who either aren’t in demand for bangmaid services or, due to orientation, don’t sleep with men but still manage to give symbolic handies all the same. They often end up in corporate HR because they act as gate-keepers against taking action on harassment and assault reports from other women. They feign feminism but suck up to and play pimp and cover up squad for the worst offending men and wet-blanket actual victims.”

      Thank you! You are describing each one of the worst bullies I’ve encountered over the years in my workplace. They get in with the equity office, the union, etc. but then use that position to smooth things for the management bros that make them titter like schoolchildren and to gatekeep. So good to hear the description from another corner.

      I learned what a flying monkey is last Xmas when the woman I thought was close friend complied with my bully-boss’s invitation (a boss responsible for communicating health protocol to hundreds of people in her charge) to break my and my friend’s two-person COVID bubble over the holiday, and leave me to spend Xmas alone, so that she could attend the boss’ secret multiple-people-breaking-covid-directions Christmas dinner party, then lie about it to me, and try to pick up being back in a bubble with me afterward.

      I’m like, you’d risk my health to go and have break-the-rules fun with someone that makes you feel more important, then come back to me when you need boring day-to-day support? I didn’t say this; I just returned to CL and distanced myself from her. Unfortunately I can’t distance from the boss or not see the ex-friend. It sucks knowing that they will always operate with self-justifying smear campaigns, gossip and secret favours.

      • Yiles, wjat assholes. Did they get pussy hats in suppprt of the women’s march while simultaneously stabbing female coworkers in the back?

  • The closest of our mutual friends, the one I thought would have my back and be pissed for me… Pretended to be supportive to get info out of me. Tried to shame me for “going through his accounts” to find stuff out and when I told her all his sexcapades and screwing teenagers and men was posted publicly online for anyone to find, she ran and told him because it all disappeared within days. She tried to convince me that I was wrong he’d been planning the divorce because he told her about this amazing trip he was going to take me on for our next anniversary.

    She refused to tell me what the trip was. A mystery trip planned by a man who won’t plan a dinner reservation but she can’t say what it was, it’s their little secret apparently.

    Oh, and he wasn’t hiding any money and she knows that for a fact. Because… how? Oh, she can’t say. I guess it’s hard to talk with his dick in her mouth.

    She started trash talking one of the other woman to me and tried to get me to join it and I was just like I don’t even care about her. I just don’t give a shit. They’re fucking facebook friends.

    She contacted me just a little while ago. She wanted to meet and catch up, wanted to know where I’m working, where I’m living, oh she can’t meet anywhere else, she has no time, but can she come to my house with coffee? no, coffee shop down the street won’t work, no time. Such a brief conversation and she still managed to slip in an insult. It’s unfucking real. I was so wrong about her. Blocked her phone number and moved on with my life.

  • Besides his family who knew about and encouraged his affairs, the biggest flying monkey is his therapist. It took me a long time to realize not all therapists are on the side of truth and growth. I agreed to meet with her and ex-FW “for the kids” and so that we could “move forward as friends”. Clearly this was pre-Chump Lady. Oh how I wish I’d found you sooner! Anyway she told me I was abusing him because I wouldn’t give him another chance. That all our kids suffering was my fault for ripping apart the family. That I wasn’t respecting the changes he made in his life for me. That I should accept that he’s a different person now than during the 10 years and 15+ women he cheated with and that it’s not fair to hold that against him anymore. She totally validates his feeling that he’s the victim of my bitterness and he was justified in trying to find love with whore after whore. It blows my mind that people like this exist.

    • Oh, therapists. You gotta love ’em.

      Ex dragged me to one who excoriated me for preferring a vibrator to his magical dick. I should say she began excoriating me, because I stood up and walked out after the first five syllables came out of her mouth.

    • “She totally validates his feeling that he’s the victim”

      I think this is one of the major functions of both Flying Monkeys and APs: to alleviate the discomfort of psychological discord that must bubble up occasionally, with all that cognitive dissonance. These sycophants aren’t just around to provide kibble. They also corroborate the victimhood and thereby condone the abuse (and call it something else). Once an FW tells a lie and it is believed, or cries a fake story and has their tears wiped… it seems like that fuckwit feels absolved. They literally rewrite history.

  • My kids were FM’s for my ex

    They tried to pressure me to give more to their cheating father in the divorce settlement.

    They knew about his hidden assets and kept that from me.

    They said his cheating was ‘just’ a reaction to a family death


    • So sorry–I know from sad experience how painful it is to have your children turned against you. I too endured this to varying degrees from each of my three children–ex’s success was not uniform.

      My mother knew what she was talking about when she shared with me that you forgive a lot, but you forget nothing.

  • The OW is definitely the biggest flying monkey of all. His entire family made it clear that they would never accept an adulterous relationship into the family when he left almost four years ago. No one agreed with what he did. He’s continued to lie about the affair without realizing that I discovered the secret email account as he was leaving the marriage and shared the emails with his family. I never told him that I had the evidence, and his family sat back and let him lie through his teeth (a real eye opener to them about what I had been dealing with).

    So he continued living a double life. His family never met this woman. The kids were kept away for almost two years. They saw her about a half dozen times before COVID hit. Sporadically, she would make an appearance for a quick dinner with my kids, which is how I would confirm that the relationship must still be going. Any day he was not with the kids, he was with her. None of the friends wives ever met this woman. Most of his friends rarely see him. His life has revolved around her.

    I think the isolation of COVID is what has kept them together. Not too many options out there when you’re in another COVID lockdown. She has never had the opportunity to really meet anyone who knows him in any capacity outside what he has presented of himself, so she likely believes whatever crap he has fed her, and I can only imagine what that has been.

    Now that that we have divorced and our Catholic Church annulment has been granted. There are no more ties that bind him to me and the argument of this being an adulterous relationship has faded. He recently has introduced this woman to his very religious parents. I can just imagine the mental gymnastics his mother is going through to become okay with this. So, I’ll consider her a flying monkey as well, but I don’t hold it against her. This is an elderly couple (in their 80s), riddled with health issues, and tired. There is no strength to uphold anything after four years. The OW came to her first family outing during Thanksgiving (celebrated in October in Canada) after he sent an email to the whole family announcing that he’ll be bringing her to family functions and hopes they will respect his decision. My sisters-in-law told me it was such an awkward experiences because almost no one at the event bothered to talk to her. She stayed quietly clinging to my ex, looking terribly uncomfortable. My own kids didn’t talk to her because they were happily playing with their cousins.

    We’ll see if the flying monkeys align at all. But, after four years, the OW is finally getting what she asked for…legitimacy in the form of being brought out of the dark. I guess she’s certainly earned it. Now, let’s see if she’s got what it takes to survive (a) my kids who know their father cheated with this woman and don’t like her, and (b) all my ex’s very Catholic siblings who want absolutely nothing to do with this.

    • An other woman, kept in the dark and fed shit (lies) like a ????

  • When I made a boundary recently, telling Satanic ex that me and the kids needed a period of no contact after his dead eyed silences and lies were starting to freak them out, not to mention I love you message my son saw on his phone, all while he denied anyone else broke up our marriage…
    He posted on FB telling 3 of my friends he was ‘worried about the children’. Because after all I am such a crazy abusive woman…who will drag the kids down with me.
    One of the friends, who always had a soft spot for him and bought the ‘maybe he was just depressed’ narrative, immediately honed in on me, asking about the kids’ welfare in a creepy ways. It felt like a visit from social services.
    She refuses to believe the tonnes of evidence of double life and kind of blocks her ears.
    We have fallen out because of it.
    Awkward because her son is friends with mine and suddenly wants to see him all the time right now. So I feel like she is spying through their friendship but hard to call out.
    I have known her 18 years and it is a bit shit. She wants to be on talking terms but I just don’t trust her any more and she triggers me way too much. So I have shut her out.

  • This is a testament to the likelihood that very few disordered people ever change. Especially once they’ve lived a few decades where they’ve learned to mask the disorder(s) while achieving high-functioning status.

    Ex came from a long generational line of abusers, cheaters, liars and divorces. Ex chose to leave them behind, start an adult life via marriage, family, children and career. Foreign to him was stability, commitment, loyalty, love and success. He basked in outward and relationship success for decades while married until…he couldn’t do it any longer. The pull of chaos, drama, fantasy, intrigue, dysfunction and entitlement won.

    The flying monkeys were legion. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of his family of origin rallied in exuberation as the black sheep finally returned to the fold. As though he was missing from the wolf-pack; once he self-destructed, he was welcomed with jubilence back into the viper den they call “family.”

    EVERY.SINGLE.ONE of the ex-laws fully wrote-off the chump and her children. Not so much as a whisper was ever heard again. After all, the chump and her family are privy to what really happened and can fully expose the cheater for who they are – and the family of origin that created them.

    Good riddance! What a blessing disguised as a divorce.

  • I was very fortunate that there were no FLYING MONKEY SPANKERS in my story. Pretty much everybody was kind and supportive…even her own family.

    • Same here. He shit all over himself at work and in the community, there was no way he was going to get any flying monkey except for her family who were all liars and cheaters.

      His mom eventually turned against me, but I didn’t really have to deal with her. I stayed away from them all. His sister never mistreated me, we worked at the same facility so we would talk now and then.

      I missed him mom; but I understand she had to live with him as she was dependent on him. He lied to her face as well as he did mine; and she made a life decision based on what she thought was a secure marriage between him and me.

  • The OW was my flying monkey.. she left me a note when she cleaned my house prior to me moving cities to be with FW. “Welcome home, we’re so glad you’re here”..
    She should have put ps: the baby I’m
    pregnant with is your FW’s and I’ll continue to fuck your husband on the side for the next 10 years while I gaslight both my husband and you, because your FW and I are just BFF’s..

    The ugly truth about the kids paternity only came out last year and I had to tell my (only child) 9yo daughter that one of the kids she’s known all her life is actually her half brother.

  • The Switzerland friend who actually took time out of her busy day to place a phone call to me to ask why I was abusing my PAS’d daughter.

    Years later she deputized said daughter to ask me why I wouldn’t have anything to do with her.

    :::slaps forehead:::

  • My sociopath’s corporate and personal secretary knew everything unbeknownst to me. She booked flights for two, made hotel and dinner reservations, paid his whore’s credit card every month for YEARS; and she had access to all of his work emails, including the emails notifying him of a paternity suit by his baby mama.

    She acted like she knew nothing. Part of me doesn’t want to overly fault her as she was the bread winner in the family, but the other part of me thinks she is a sick, twisted and an evil conspirator to support him all these years.

    I don’t care anymore, but she was one of his flying monkeys for sure.

  • 1. Flying Monkey: I shut the door on someone and refused to email, meet, or speak over the phone with him. His 90+ year old mother wrote me a letter and included a check for my ‘delightful’ granddaughter. She wanted me to know how broken-hearted he was and that my actions had hurt him deeply. She was sure that I was #1 in his heart.

    She forgot to allude to all the others. I had found a spreadsheet with his ‘current in-the-wings’, where he had met them, details about the woman’s family, where they had gone on dates, how far they had progressed sexually, and future plans.

    He had a PhD in creative writing and an MSW in counseling.

    2. His second Flying Monkey: Was having lunch with a male friend and I was telling him how I felt about the fact that I was unexpectedly raising a grandchild who was now a toddler, that I had been planning retirement and a lovely life alone. He said “well there’s one person who loves you and would love to help you raise her.” I snorted — then explained I was never going to support him in his writing career while he had girlfriends in Baltimore, Phoenix, England, Manhattan and numerous others. He was stunned. He did the right thing and dropped him as his friend.

    3. Third Flying Monkey: He had a close girlfriend talk me into ‘one last visit’ to get closure. I was stupid enough to agree to meet in an outside park. Ugh. He wanted one last kiss and I just wanted to go home and get away from him. He tried to turn my clenched closed mouth into something more pliable.

    4. Fourth Flying Monkey: He published a newsletter for his counseling practice. As well as direct mail, he published it on a site for an organization we both belonged to. The newsletter was about bad parenting practices. He gave enough details so that anyone who knew me would recognize me as the patient he was describing. (The reason I was suddenly raising a grandchild came about after a terrible tragedy.)

  • I don’t know of these were “flying monkeys”, but they are no longer in my life.

    When I was in the initial throws of trauma, I reached out to three single women in my life (divorced or widowed). They were long time aqauinatances, from the three decade time period of my marriage.

    I avoided going into the details of his cheating (still high on hopium), but all three women fairly quickly and separtely said they were not able to continue contact with me. I assumed that my pain was too raw or that they were offended by being clumped into some sad category of single. Maybe they actually were wary of being pulled into drama.

    There was no drama on my end – just pain and grief. I am fortunate that I had family and friendships that pre-dated my marriage. I also did not isolate and made new friends through a 12 step program and volunteer work.

    I have limited contact with the married couple my ex and I were closest to. They moved out of the area and I don’t know if they are still in touch with him.

    • It’s becoming clearer to me with more distance that x was fukking everybody he could. Now a lot of my fucked up one-sided girlfriendships mske sense in light of that fact.

      • Yes! I had gotten to the point where I thought all women just hated me and I couldn’t figure out why. But I gave up on having my own friends. Waitresses were nasty to me, clerks were nasty to me, women who had been my friends and coworkers became nasty to me, the woman he took me to to get my ring resized was so nasty to me I cried in the car an on the way home and asked how I possibly could have offended her and he told me I was crazy and over sensitive.

        No. He was screwing absolutely anyone and everyone who would have him. I was exposed to women who were screwing him and absolutely despised me on a daily basis for at least a decade. I thought the entire female gender hated my guts and wanted me dead. And I didn’t want male friends. I was just sad and lonely and confused.

        It’s nice to be able to make friends with women again now that I’ve gotten rid of the perverts who were abusing me.

        • It’s quite a revelation that a person whom you trusted would be such a liar and a fraud and an abuser.

          So difficult to get your head around.

          Accepting that fact was the point at which I could begin to recover.

          x proves that fact as his life unfolds away from me.

          This was a long relationship and I extracted myself. My life has transformed. No contact and grey rock and honest sharing with trusted others are the key to recovery.

    • “and I don’t know if they are still in touch with him”

      When this is the case, I treat people as Switzerland; this means I never initiate contact and only respond with the bare polite minimum when they contact me.

  • The main flying monkey was my now ex best friend. After DDay he was there for me and helped me thru the rough first month. Then my ex wife started her WW2 size smear campaign. He told me that everything I told him was lies and half truths. That I deserved to be cheated on because only men can be abusive. He then went to other friends telling them to not believe what I said because I have mental problems. It was almost as painful as the cheating by my XW. ????????????

    • He was probably fucking her. Hence the abrupt change in his tune and working on her behalf to smear you. She’d probably fuck just about anybody to get an ally against you, but snagging your bestie would especially please a fw.

      “I deserved to be cheated on because only men can be abusive.”

      Wow. How mudfuckingly stupid is this guy.

  • Sorry, please have some nice words for me, CN.and kick my arse. I feel so abused.
    I just got email from my husband that he wants a divorce. I am devastated. I seemed to be still on hopium.
    He left a few months ago, drained the bank account and left me with nothing. I went then for work about 5000 miles away from him, after some time I got phonecall. I am an idiot, I started talking to him again and it got better. Strange thing was, I felt like the other woman. No calls on weekends, if I called, no answer. Then he rang back about 10 min later, but all the time being in the road, park or something like that.
    He was talking about reconciliation when we have sold the houses we own. A week ago I got really upset, I haven’t been paid my salaries for 2 months and I am in a fight with my company, leaving me in a foreign country with no money.
    Yesterday I asked him for help, but he declined. He didn’t want me coming back, I don’t even know where he lives. I am not even allowed to join him for Christmas. I lost it there, went ballistic and wrote emails to my brother in law for help. Nothing came, only an email from my husband that he wants a divorce. He wrote an email in May too to have a divorce, I went and get going. Then he persuaded me to take it back. I did. Now again such an email, not even a phonecall telling me that again.
    Please tell me how stupid I am and that I go through with it this time, please. I am shattered.

    • This must be very scary! You need to reach out to legal or social services to find out your rights. Is there a religious or women’s organization which can help you? Keep the e-mail records from your employer and your husband. Do not tell him your plans until you have received legal advice.

    • I second what Almost Monday says, Triplechumped. You are not stupid and you need and deserve support and validation, not criticism and abuse. Turn to trustworthy friends, family, support networks and CN, but resist the urge to reach out to your ex or his family for help. They are not safe. Things felt impossible, but I was lucky enough to be offered a temporary place to stay. It wasn’t ideal or a long term solution, but it provided me a safe place to catch my breath and get my feet under me again.

      You have been stuck in a cycle of abuse, and it’s not your fault. I, and most of the chumps here, have experienced some version of what you are. I think you are right that you need to leave, and it’s a good sign that you’re expressing your anger and have found Chump Lady. You can do it, but please be careful. It sounds like you are in a vulnerable position, financially and otherwise, and need to be cautious. Sending hugs and courage your way…

      • Thanks to both of you.very kind words.i am so devastated,but I try to leave here and get legal support.i have written so many applications,but nothing till now.

    • Of course you are shocked and upset.

      Accept that the man you call your husband is behaving in the classic way of a fuckwit.
      Do not make excuses for his behavior.

      You are on your own and now need to look around and assess your resources and move forward with the knowledge that you will survive this situation.

      No contact is the best advice that I have received.

      You are a victim and you have healing that needs to be done but right now you are in survival mode and survival is number one.

      Be careful, very careful that you do not jump from the frying pan into the fire by giving others the benefit of the doubt. There are many predators in the world.

      People like your husband do not care about you or whether you live or die. He is incapable and selfish and those are his decisions.
      That is who he is.

      Breathe. Ask the universe for help and direction. Every day spend some time centering yourself and meditating in order to stay grounded.

      TripleChump, I am sending you light and love and peace. You will find your way forward.

  • My NEX sent her monkeys to support her social media smear campaign just this week. It is obviously a reaction to my going no contact and her major fight with her kids. (She can’t beat me up anymore so she turns on them.)

    This particular monkey is a 40ish man with no children, many failed degrees, who somehow thinks it is ok to mock and pick on a 7 yr old who was left abandoned and in distress multiple times (I have proof! and even then hardly anyone will believe me).

    He tried to tell me that she never cheated. As if I didn’t live through the first night where she was gone and spending it at her boyfriend’s house.

    I really didn’t know what was going on. I was very confused because reality was not matching the words she said. I see now that is what she wanted even if it was subconscious.

    I followed the chump’s handbook and she followed the cheater’s handbook. It was incredibly illuminating to see conversations recreated almost word for word in the book.

    Next time, she got more sneaky and waited until she thought I would never know because I was camping as a leader at a Scout campout for my church. That was at least night number 2. Should I even bring up where she admitted to making out on the floor with her boyfriend while my newborn first child was there?

    I won’t ever know the truth. She has D-Day’ed me, lied to, promised and gaslighted so many times that I’m not sure she knows it anymore either.

    I know this is late to the party. I saw this when it was posted (chumplady is a daily read for me since I found it 10 months ago). I haven’t been public with my story before. I was taught to turn the other cheek and to forgive. She (and her family of adulterous bullies) used that against me to keep me silenced and in line. They still want that control me even after the divorce is final.

    I just want to be free and get to my meh.

    This is my real name. This is my real story. I won’t be silent anymore. I want to be a person of peace. But I will not be silenced anymore.

    • Good for you, Daniel. The only thing silence is good for is as a bargaining tool to get better terms on the divorce. If you didn’t promise silence in exchange for that, sing like a canary. Don’t let them bully you into keeping it secret.
      Turning the other cheek doesn’t work with the disordered. It only encourages them to abuse you more.

      • Thanks.

        The divorce is final, but evidently that wasn’t enough for her and the monkeys so they have tried to smear my name among my supporting friends (she’s tried to isolate me many times before). The upside is I have learned who my true friends are.

        I wish I had learned the lesson on turning the other cheek from a book or something. It was like a light to find chumplady and a few other resources. The experience was so unpleasant, that I would not wish it on anyone (including enemies).

        • Daniel , check out divorce minister. He’ll help pull the blinds on the false assumption that forgiveness is compulsory. I firmly believe forgiveness is impossible without true , sincere remorse. And that it is shown through not just words but actions.

          • Thank you for your recommendation. I will definitely check it out. Working through this as it relates to my faith has been challenging.

    • Healing from abuse is a process. No contact with fw and flying monkeys is the best way forward. Otherwise gray rock and emails only with Our family wizard type scheduling is best.
      I found it very healing to share with like-minded people who understand the dynamic. Education about these kinds of abusers was very helpful. Especially dealing with covert narc cheaters. Took some years and I recovered my self.

      Shrink4men dot com is also a good resource for support and healing.

  • After DDay-1, my in-laws moved into a house just two blocks away from us to “help with the kids” while we were struggling to reconcile. In fact, they accelerated the demise of our marriage, my ex moved in with them, and they effectively got 50% custody of our kids. He still lives in their basement 5 years after our divorce.

    Then, when COVID hit, my ex-in-laws tried to foreclose on my home. When that didn’t work, they threatened to sue me for $150,000. I had to sell our house and move our kids (their grandkids) to another school district to escape their flying monkey clutches.

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