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Joss Whedon’s Non-Apology

joss whedon
Photo by Gage Skidmore, source: Wikipedia

Buffy the Vampire Slayer creator, screenwriter, and master of attempted facial hair, Joss Whedon gave his side of the story to New York Magazine last Monday, defending allegations that he’s a misogynist creep and all around nasty piece of work.

Understanding is called for because Joss had a very difficult childhood, where adults gathered round and recited Shakespeare at cocktail parties.

Born Joseph, Whedon grew up in a palazzo-style apartment building on the Upper West Side. The family spent holidays reading Shakespeare out loud and evenings listening to Sondheim with friends. “There wasn’t a grown-up who didn’t have a drink in their hand by midafternoon,” he said. His father, Tom, was a second-generation television writer whose credits included The Golden Girls and The Dick Cavett Show. He had lived through many writers’-room battles, and he and Lee ran the home as though they were in the thick of one. “If you weren’t funny or entertaining or agreeing with them, they would cut you down or turn to stone,” he recalled.

The pressure to create bon mots can turn impressionable children into Dorothy Parker. And from this tragic circumstance poor Joss parlayed his third-generation Hollywood screenwriter legacy into a media empire.

Whedon now has a term for the damage his childhood caused. He says he suffers from complex post-traumatic-stress disorder, a condition that can lead to relationship problems, self-destructive behavior, and addictions of various kinds.

Also, he blames his mother. She was sexy.

And you can believe him when he says he’s never threatened anyone, because:

On weekends and in summers, he would pass his mornings pacing the long driveway of the family’s second home, a farmhouse near Schenectady, “making up science-fiction universes or plotting elaborate revenges on my brothers.”

Blame Macbeth. Had his parents not inflicted the Bard’s elaborate revenge scenarios, I’m sure Joss would be a better man.

Anyway, the point is Joss has done a lot of self-reflection and has concluded that everyone is lying.

His ex-wife (you can read the UBT here)

Gal Gadot (leading actress):

Last year, she told reporters Whedon “threatened” her and said he would make her “career miserable.”Whedon told me he did no such thing: “I don’t threaten people. Who does that?” He concluded she had misunderstood him. “English is not her first language…”

Ray Fisher (black actor who played Cyborg):

He could think of only one way to explain Fisher’s motives. “We’re talking about a malevolent force,” he said. “We’re talking about a bad actor in both senses.”

An unnamed actress afraid of retaliation:

After her agent pushed for her to get a raise, she claims Whedon called her at home and said she was “never going to work for him, or 20th Century Fox, again.” Reading Gadot’s quote, she thought, “Wow, he’s still using that line.” (Whedon denied this too.)

Fiction, people! Fiction! And you can believe a man who has spent his life at Comicons surrounded by people dressed as vampires.

Maybe the problem was he’d been too nice, he said. He’d wanted people to love him, which meant when he was direct, people thought he was harsh. In any case, he’d decided he was done worrying about all that. People had been using “every weaponizable word of the modern era to make it seem like I was an abusive monster,” he said. “I think I’m one of the nicer showrunners that’s ever been.”

Okay, so he had a bunch of affairs, belittled the help, and once gave a 90-minute presentation on how much a fellow woman writer’s work sucked — complete with slideshow! — until she cried. But Joss is A NICE MAN.

And not one bit sorry.

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  • Umm, most of us older folks recollect the adults in our lives drinking and smoking cigarettes, the house filled with smoke and tipsy people when parents had friends over for card games, or even Christmas and Thanksgiving with the relatives It was a way of life. Most of us aren’t creeps or use that as an excuse for being creeps.

    • Yep, though my parents were not really drinkers, they had card games. In those days most kids (including us) were sent to another room to play. We didn’t hang around the adults. Though it didn’t stop us from ease dropping until it got boring. They even (gasp) put us at kids tables away from the adults for holiday gatherings.

      After all that trauma, I never tried to destroy someone’s career, or commit abuse against those I loved or worked with.

      Blaming ones FOO for ones heinous behavior is getting so old.

      • The mornings after the parties when the parents were sleeping off their hangovers, us kids would run around the house eating leftover chips and dip and other fun snacks, stuff we didn’t normally have around. Such trauma!

        • Reminds me of the family story about why my dad quit smoking. The morning after an adult card party, my toddler brother was caught eating cigarette butts from an overflowing ashtray. Guess what? Brother happily married with a fabulous career overseas.

    • Eh, I’m 61 so I fit the older folks definition, but smoking and drinking weren’t a way of life at my house growing up. Even in my extended family, where there was some smoking, ladies didn’t smoke and tipsy was frowned on even though the men might sip a little whiskey.

      HOWEVER, both my parents were smart and sexy and I’m not a creep.

      Joss Whedon is a spoiled, narcissistic brat.

    • Yup. Saturday nights my parents and their friends all would get together for drinks and many smoked at the time. All got tipsy, had a good time and then more often than not the discussion would lead to politics and become heated but not out of control. I remember sitting at the top of the stairs with my coloring book listening to discussions on MLK. Some called him a hero others called him a rabble rouser. This did not lead to me, my siblings or the kids of my parents friends having mental health issues.

      • As a teenager, babysitting, parents often come home late long after the kids were asleep, some of the parents drunk, saying inaporopriate things. Me, reading their paperbacks (not recommended for kids at that time) all night before they came home, like Valley of the Dolls. Also the dad’s Playboy and Penthouse magazines thrown around the house. (They’re right, Playboy had some great articles.) My dad did turn into an alcoholic during my teenage years, which was more sad than anything else. *I’m so traumatized and have every reason on earth to abuse people. *Sarcasm.

    • My cousins and I (all over age 50) fondly recall our parents’ parties. The parties were slumber parties for us because our parents at least had the sense not to drink and drive. We would stay down in the basement “rec room” with a bowl of snacks and some sleeping bags, playing and having a great time.
      Sometimes the parties got a bit rowdy. One New Years my uncles got into into a loud drunken argument and one of them woke up in the closet the next day. Not stellar parenting by today’s standards, but we all turned out to be decent human beings.
      Joss Whedon is just a dick.

      • That’s the weirdest FOO excuse I’ve ever heard. My parents and their friends were hippies back in the day. I can remember fun weeklong camping trips where all the adults got wasted, high, and went skinny-dipping, and left us kids to our own devices. My cohort of hippy kids all turned out fine and would never consider cheating on our spouses.

  • Too many human beings are too entitled and narcissistic.

    The narcissist is always frustrated because he/she will never have his/her magnificence recognized enough the way his/her magnificence deserves. To compensate, to sublimate the frustration, he/she cheats and lies at will and takes unfair advantage of fellow humans, among other types of shit.

    How to cure this evil?

      • Thanks for running this! The backlash to his interview is massive and heartening. It’s like the entire internet is calling out a narcissist on his bullshit.

        Deep in the article, Whedon blames his downfall on his ex-wife, who was the first one to speak out against him, with this classic cheater DARVO:

        “‘I was made a target by my ex-wife, and people exploited that cynically.’ As he explained this theory, his voice sank into a hoarse whisper. ‘She put out a letter saying some bad things I’d done and saying some untrue things about me, but I had done the bad things and so people knew I was gettable.'”

        Yesterday was a triumvirate of entitled cheaters on display – your awesome Brett Sadler UBT, the Joss Whedon interview, the discussion here on the U of Michigan president. Just wow.

    • They attempt steal what isn’t theirs, then try to get us to excuse them with sympathy ploys. The best thing we can do is ignore (gray rock) and not react in any way in either a positive or negative fashion. Just the middle way of indifference. It drives them absolutely crazy, which is pretty good revenge. Cut them off at the pass and watch them fall of their horse. Then gallop off.

      • But even with gray rock, you can get info out there about the narc, if placed right. If someone asks, tell them calmly about what they have done to you, what sort of person they really are. In my case, I called his father (who he greatly admired) and told him his son owed me money–a lot of it, and had no intention of paying it back. I asked if he could help me get my money back from his son. His dad really liked me, so I knew I wasn’t taking much of a risk. Ex calls me up raging. His cover as great son, sucessful person was blown. All because I calmly, and in a business-like fashion appealed to his father to help me recoup my losses. Some of the information on narcissists advise not poking the beast, but there are subtle ways you can box them into a corner and expose them. This article about Joss did exactly that. They’re so stupid. Probably was told this would help him garner sympathy. For most readers its done the opposite. He’s been exposed for who he really is.

  • Ug – beware anyone who touts how “honest” they are and how other people just can’t handle it. They aren’t an jerk, they’ll say, just “direct” and the sensitive snowflakes of the world can’t handle it.

    Nope, they are just an asshole who constantly hurts other people’s feelings and then blames them for being upset.

  • I was a mega fan of Buffy. And Joss seemed to be really trying to make a “female empowerment story.”

    But the truth is he hides behind that like he’s doing the world a favor… meanwhile he was so awful that the female actors from the show have had to step forward. Reading about what Charisma Carpenter endured… or that Michelle Trachtenburg even had it set in her contract that she wasn’t to be alone with that dickhead… he’s a real monster.

    By the way… talk about misogynistic and patronizing… Joss saying that Gal Gadot misunderstood him because English is her second language?? OMG STOP. She speaks English. She’s Israeli. He’s a pig.

    I’m soooooo sorry he grew up in privilege. It must have been terrible for him. That ass.

      • For real – I think she speaks like 4 languages. Also adept at decoding bullshit.

        My guess is Joss does think everyone else is stupid. I was a mega fan of Buffy too and for years and years Joss was hero-worshipped, showered with praise and adulation, and considered one of the smartest, best writers out there. Also, such a feminist! But his work hasn’t aged well and it’s easier now to see his misogyny running through it.

        So he takes over on Justice League, and Ray Fisher and Gal Godot have the temerity to QUESTION HIS DECISIONS. What? These stupid actors who are beneath me think they have an opinion I should consider?

        He rains down his usual abuse but these two rising stars call him out on his behavior, and it turns out the world has changed and Joss Whedon isn’t an unquestioned god anymore, but he can’t make sense of that so he gives this ludicrous interview where all his manipulative, gaslighting, power-mad bullying is on full display … and he thinks he’s convincing the world that he is the nice guy victim, plagued by these liars and idiots and bad actors and beautiful young women who trapped him with their magic vajay-jays. And while he’s at it, he blames his ex-wife for starting it all by talking about the fact that he had affairs. I mean, how dare she question the Exalted One?

        Fans used to wear “Joss Whedon is My Master Now” t-shirts. The kibbles must have exploded his narcissistic brain.

    • I’m beginning to think a lot of people pretend to support a cause, and then use it as cover to abuse the very people they pretend to champion.

      • It’s the “savior” mentality. Oh, look at these poor people who are my social inferiors! I’ll help them, as long as they don’t get “uppity”…and as long as they know their place. ????

        As a Jewish lesbian, I’ve seen this process unfold many times (sadly).

      • Yep! See: Bill Cosby. He was all about supporting education for disadvantaged youths. Big philanthropist. And it hid what a creepy serial rapist he is.

        What a shield… everyone sees you as such a giving wonderful person… why would anyone believe a woman who would dare say otherwise? It’s the scariest gaslighting in the world.

      • Watch Jane Campion’s tv series “Top of the Lake” to illustrate this sociopathic phenomenon.

      • Like that disease Munchausen. Only I guess that is an actual mental disorder.

        But, I do think a lot of these folks are disordered. Not an excuse at all.

      • My pedophilic social venture capitalist ex who wore me on his arm like a brown feminist trophy-badge because he was a “champion of minority women.”

      • All the narcissistic abusers I’ve known are very active volunteers and philanthropists. 2 are outspoken “male feminists” with a long trail of rape allegations.

        Now I’m always a little skeptical of people who claim to be do-gooders. Abusers flock to charitable causes where they can look like a hero.

    • Just to repeat a comment from the other day, Gal Gadot may not be a #MeToo heroine. Brace for complexity as guilty parties jump on various bandwagons in high profile scandals.

      I don’t put much credence to the yellow press but there’s buzz that Gadot is a side chick and cheater herself.

      Whether or not it’s true, I find the earlier Medium story of rape-enabling a bit credible. There’s a study showing a correlation between “infidelity tolerance” and “rape myth acceptance.”

  • I’ve always disliked the hyper-masculization of the women in Buffy that was the basis for commentators marveling at its “feminist” story-line. Buffy and her slayers engage in a ton of violence and are always being exhorted to emotionally harden themselves to be able to “get on with” their work. Kind of a Hell Mouth “lean in” message – ladies, just become exactly like men, that will solve all your problems! Let’s not try to envision a better way of dealing with things, let’s just act exactly like stereotypical men. (and of course, be young & hot while you’re doing it, preferably in a midriff top that shows your abs, that goes without saying). Ugh. Fortunately, we have better ways of being feminist these days, like equal pay and ending abusive workplaces :). Speaking of which . . . . happy to see Wheedon’s true nature being revealed and reviled.

    • I totally agree. Even management studies show how the right blend of masculine and feminine management and leadership styles are the best option. If an individual woman happens to be naturally rugged, vive la difference, fine. But it’s hardly feminism to demand women just be less hairy versions of men in all things as a condition of deserving equality.

      When I was working as a dv advocate there were a lot of discussions about the male model of competence being absurdly foisted on women and how media pushed this model as ersatz feminism. We called it the “men with breasts” phenomenon. Sometimes the “badass” thing was mixed with infantile sex kitten traits like the French film La Femme Nikita. She talks like a simpering, whispery baby (if she even talks) but then the rest of the time she’s breaking jaws and blowing people away. While still looking cute, d’aaw..

      Many victims of dv were berated by bystanders and even therapists for not physically fighting back like a kung fu heroine. I think the badass stereotyoe in films influenced this a lot. But the dynamics and laws surounding dv are not the same as stranger assault. First off, there’s the dual arrest law. If the victim lifts a finger, even if this doesn’t cause sufficient damage to stop the assault, she will be arrested and her kids put into state care. Secondly, hitting back typically enrages abusers further. I know, Shanann Watts, but apparently Chris Watts had never been violent before. She was blindsided.

      I’m not saying women shouldn’t train in self defense. I’m just saying bystanders are idiots for assuming if the victim didn’t lay waste to the abuser, she must have liked the abuse or that any woman who doesn’t enter a relationship fully trained in krav maga is “asking for it.” Is that the kind of world people want? Where every relationship is assumed to be Thunderdome? Also the victim in every circumstance is generally the best judge of whether the assault will turn deadly and what the risks are of every move she makes in response.

      Unfortunately Canada is now applying the dv constraints on victims of stranger rape and stranger assault too. According to Canadian activists, if you ward off a rapist with, say, a ballpoint pen (especially if you happen to be poor and a woman of color), you’ll get a weapons charge. If you leave marks on your rapist, you risk being tried and going to jail.

      • Wow. Great post, Hell, but very sad stuff to contemplate. Thanks for letting us know what’s really going on. Most of the time I hear praise for a woman who fought back, it’s postmortem. ????

        • The badass, kickass cinema heroine is fun but unfortunately can fuel covert victim blaming.

          After I was assaulted by an employer, a therapist told me that because I’m tall I should have “beat up” the employer who assaulted me when I was a 19 year old intern (I got away but not without serious injuries). She accused me of playing “weak” for attention, playing “feminine.” The implication was that I was a masochist and sent out Voodoo tractor beams to draw in abusers because I couldn’t kick the guy’s ass. Then I went to a therapist in a victim’s compensation program recommended by the DA who implied the same thing. He put words in my mouth, saying that I’d said “Well [the perp] was so stwong and I’m so weeeak.”

          I’d never said anything like that and certainly never said anything in such a mealy-mouthed tone. Honestly, I don’t lisp. I had said that I had multiple surgeries on both knees from sports injuries and a chronic shoulder injury and was conscious of this while in the midst of being attacked. I had to choose between being crippled for life or “giving as good as I got” (which wasn’t possible anyway). I’m tall but gangly and not combat trained. I didn’t know how to fight off a raging psychotic who weighed 80 LBs more than me. And in a better world, should I have known how as a condition of accepting employment? Wasn’t it enough that I got away? What if the assault succeeded?

          By the way, it was a lesbian couple who lived on the other side of a garden complex who heard my screams, called the cops and saved my neck. They later invited me for tea and one of the women said she’d been previously assaulted and knew the sound of a woman in trouble. Was she a lesser feminist because she hadn’t been able to defend herself? Had she been playing “weak” out of some pathological identification with femininity?

          That’s why I went into DV advocacy. There was no “work harassment victims’ advocacy” at the time. I joined a service that, along with offering other practical resources, helped women gain psychological immunity from the victim blaming in the very system that was supposedly created to help them. We had an excellent success rate in helping to liberate survivors, much better than state-sponsored advocacy networks that relied on moldy and debunked victim-blaming theories. We also cranked out a lot of newly minted activists, including one girl that ended up on Nancy Grace after taking down her violent politician dad and another who launched an advocacy movement in Alaska. The secret sauce was countering the victim-blaming. With that stone taken out of victims’ pockets, they recovered so much more quickly.

          One of the “stones” was that losing a fight means you wanted secretly to be assaulted. Thanks, Wonder Woman and Femme Nikita.

          Again, I’m all for self defense training but there’s a reason they don’t match feather weights with heavy weights even in same-sex sports combat.

          • First of all, I am so sorry you went through all of that, HOC. I’m guessing it’s taken a long time for you to be able to write about this so clearly and openly. Thank you for sharing what you’ve experienced and learned. It’s hard-to-find information that’s helped me to better understand (and believe/forgive myself for) my own painful and confusing experiences with abusers/abuse, and with the broader societal context.

            Somewhat related to the themes in the above comments, I listened to Nicole Kidman’s recent interview for Fresh Air, in which she discusses the abusive dynamic her character in Big Little Lies is trapped in with her husband. In the interview, Kidman says she wanted the character to fight back (which she does when her husband assaults her) to add complexity and shed light on the feelings of guilt and complicity that victims of abuse experience. I didn’t fight back physically, and I felt sickened, not aroused, by my ex’s emotional or physical abuse (the violent scenes in the show are very sexually charged, which TBH I found disturbing, unnecessary/unhelpful, and not very believable), and yet I felt, and still feel, guilt and responsibility for much of what happened – what I allowed, what I engaged in, how I behaved during the worst of the trauma. I know this is extremely common for victims of abuse, and yet it is so hard to believe and internalize when it comes to myself. It does help to see and hear about the phenomenon from others’ perspectives.

            • Thank you for the kind words.

              I went way down the “victimology” rabbit hole after being victimized in a work setting. I agree that the way dv was depicted in “Big Little Lies” felt off the mark.

              Nicole Kidman was likely never physically batterered, even if she lived with a reported control freak (Cruise), so maybe she can be forgiven the rookie mistake of thinking she knows fuck-all. She agreed to do the series, ended up coproducing and obviously wanted to reconcile the storyline with her own values and feel like she was doing a #MeToo public service.

              Well, good for her! But personally I’m not taking my moral and sociological guidance from the author of Chicago Hope and Doogie Howser, MD (David E. Kelly, married to former side piece Michele Pfeiffer).

              A wonderful, brain-organizing book to read on PTSD in general and dv survival specifically is Frank M. Ochberg’s Post-traumatic Stress Therapy and the Victims of Violence. It’s old, hard to find and expensive to purchase but available through library order and the chapter on dv and clinical victim-blaming is still revolutionary and healing and a solid antidote to victim-blamey cultural messages.

              I remember discussions among dv victims of dissociation and “astro-travelling” (detached fantasy of being somewhere else and with someone else) during sex with abusers because if they could force themselves to “get into it,” it wouldn’t rip their insides out. It’s just a little technical problem with women not being aroused during sex- it can do serious damage. Survivors would laugh about this fact (in a haha-groan sort of way) because forcing themselves to enjoy sex played into every idle bystander’s victim stereotype. Yet it was such a relief for survivors to share the horror among others who understood. Basic fact: rape can cause uterine prolapse, so they’d play mental tricks to make it “not rape.” Some weren’t able to astro travel and suffered less confusion but more physical damage.

              But how does a marginally talented TV writer write that into a short, sort of shallow mini eau-de-feminism series? It gets complicated and probably expensive to include the added fantasy sex scenes with beings-other-than-the-abuser as the victim dissociates, etc. The audience might judge the protagonist even more harshly for her imagined infidelity than for supposedly being aroused during assault. The latter has the benefit of being a culturally favored old saw about battered women- that they find the domination “hot.”

              Retch. Anyway, I can’t recommend the book enough. The chapter on dv by husband-wife researchers Anne Flitcraft and Evan Stark is illuminating and scientifically trounces traditional victim blaming. Most of the lasting damage from abuse is caused by victim blaming.

    • Excellent observation, Falconchump, with a fine distinction of a “stereotypical man”! I was thinking about this a lot myself when I was mulling over on how I need to change myself to fit into business/corporate world. I came to the similar conclusion as you: I don’t want to behave like a stereotypical man, with emotional hardening and lack of regard for people around me under the pretence of “leadership”. We already have a lot of problems in the world arising from following this business/leadership/behavioural model. I have seen a lot of stereotypical macho men denying they have issues and resorting to handling their emotions by addiction and/or violence toward others or themselves (suicide) – the same men who disparage women for being “emotional”. There are men out there who don’t engage in d**k measuring contests and are doing their best for their families and communities, and this stereotype doesn’t do good for them either because it makes their efforts invisible just because it doesn’t fit into the so called “alpha” behaviour.

    • How happy your comment makes me! I taught Intro to Women’s Studies for years and always said to my students the question was whether women just wanted access to male spaces (corporations) and to adopt to the male culture already in operation there or whether women wanted access to these spaces and to be able to change the culture.

      I have also always thought that the rebel stance for women–that of sexual transgressor–wasn’t rebellious but capitulation.

      • “I have also always thought that the rebel stance for women–that of sexual transgressor–wasn’t rebellious but capitulation.”

        Yep, and I’m pretty sure most OW these days tell themselves they’re striking a blow for female empowerment. They say the same shit about getting breast implants, FFS. Oh, and taking it up the ass and being choked out is all about strong, self-confident women embracing their sexuality, too. ????

        • Yep and even on this site we have a random “swoop and pooper” swoop down and lecture us if we dare disparage a sainted ow/om, after all she/he made no promises to us; so we should respect them.

          • This type of stuff makes me so mad. I was beaten so bad at the age of 5 by my step father that I was taken away, the same step father that my mother stayed with for years. The same step father, that honestly everyone in my family (with the exception of my uncle) still dealt with and everything, I remember still being around him as a kid and teenager. Like literally no one in my family really acknowledges what happened to me and how horrible it was, to the point that I am now 38 and just realizing honestly how messed up everything truly was. But you don’t see me going around and treating men or hell even other people like crap, so miss me with the BS.

            • (((Elizabeth))) Your story if horrific. I hope you are getting help and finding peace.
              Five years old and your mother stays? I feel enraged on your behalf.

          • Yuck. That’s why I seldom come on here in the morning. By afternoon the ow/om, forgiveness/concern troll vomit has been deleted.

            • I hadn’t even noticed they had been deleted. I get them in my inbox, and when I see the handle I auto delete the email and don’t read anymore of their diatribes.

            • Wait, did I miss some OM/OW forgiveness/concern trolling?? I live for that!! Laughter is my tourniquet. I’m in a later timezone unfortunately.

              • Not lately AFAIK. The troll would get deleted but the replies taking the troll down would probably still be there. I’ve enjoyed that in the archives; reading multiple hilarious responses without the need to hold my nose and look at the troll spewage.

      • She-cheating is definitely capitulation. Note how many she-FWs cheat on decent good providers in preference for knuckle-dragging thugs. And I see a ton of internalized mosogyny in side pieces.

  • I don’t think this article is the big “listen to my side” comeback press he thinks it is; it just makes him look even more crummy.

    Another good example of how being unable (or unwilling) to honestly self-reflect is so very damaging to one’s life. Everytime they’re handed a rope to help them out of the pit they jumped into (i.e., their decisions/their consequences), they say “A rope to climb out? Bah, I don’t need that. I’ve got this here shovel, dummy.”

    • LOL, you said it perfectly! He’s got to be totally lost in his grandiose delusions of himself if he thought anything he said was going to make him look good or like the victim. He pretty much hammered the nails into the coffin of his career himself with this interview.

      • Yes and nice guys don’t have to say that they’re nice. Announcing how awesomely nice you are is a red flag.

        It took me years to learn that but now that I know it, I see it clear as day. I recoil whenever I see variations on the “I’m the nicest guy you’ll ever meet” theme. It’s like they are shouting on a megaphone that they are–decidedly!–not nice.

  • Yup, and an uncle used to forcibly french kiss me and my sisters as girls. So I should have the right to abuse everyone for the rest of my life.

    Excuses really are like assholes. In fact assholes make all the excuses.

  • “Plotting elaborate revenges” at an early age sounds like something of an indicator.

    I can ID with some of the rest, including elaborate fictional universes. Retreating to fantasy might reflect trouble in paradise, but it doesn’t turn you into a cruel manipulator. And in any case, as adults, we are responsible for how we treat other people.

    • “ Retreating to fantasy might reflect trouble in paradise”….

      Not necessarily. He was making up science fiction worlds at his parent’s summer home. Sounds more like normal fun childhood fantasy play and imagination…. that also happened to take place in a very privileged upbringing.

      • True. Hence, “might.” In my case, it was pretty extreme, and did reflect trouble–in suburbia. (For one particular element, note username.)

        To be clear, upbringing does not excuse treating others badly as a grownup. What I learned was the inverse, to accept bad treatment. CL has helped straighten out my head.


  • My family went to a lot of cultural events when I was growing up, though there were never cocktails involved and I never saw my parents or their artist friends drunk.

    So why does Whedon even mention the culture except to brag? One thing (culture) has nothing to do with the other (abusive alcoholism). Fishing, cow-tipping and rodeos don’t necessarily equate with booze either though addicts can use every activity as an excuse to over-imbibe. He’s just carefully pointing out his family dysfunction didn’t take place in a trailer park so was an untrashy and finer grade of family dysfunction.

    • “He’s just carefully pointing out his family dysfunction didn’t take place in a trailer park so was an untrashy and finer grade of family dysfunction.”

      A more worldly family dysfunction, if you will.

      (said while holding my pinky up, while drinking my coffee)

  • From the article: Had he made out with an actress on the floor of someone’s office? “That seems false. I don’t understand that story even a little bit.” He removed his glasses and rubbed his face. “I should run to the loo.” When he came back, he said the story didn’t make sense to him because he “lived in terror” of his affairs being discovered.

    Haha. “That SEEMS false.” Exactly what we say when we’re innocent.
    And shouldn’t we feel sorry for him that he lived in terror….TERROR…of his affairs being discovered. The poor guy. #clueless #TFC

    Idea for a new show, Joss: Make a privileged narc a cult leader, surround him with beautiful women, and watch him use and abuse. That script writes itself.

    • >>From the article: Had he made out with an actress on the floor of someone’s office?

      I wish that the journalist hadn’t included that story, because commenters are latching onto it as proof that the abuse stories are exaggerated. It caused doubt in me too, and the desire to back away from another internet toxic dog pile on the scandal du jour. (I miss Lindsay Ellis.).

      How do you react to a question like “did you screw on the floor of someone’s office while they were there?” It’s one of those, “Do you beat your wife?” questions. Of course, FW’s do even worse. But you can still get the conviction without doing something which looks like a and cruel set-up to the audience, and too far-fetched to be believed.

  • So anything bad about him is the fault of his upbringing and also there is nothing bad about him because he is a really nice guy? Thank God the plot line to Buffy wasn’t this convoluted and thin.

  • “He admired strong women like his mother, yet he’d discovered he was capable of hurting them, ‘usually by sleeping with them and ghosting or whatever’.”

    Even so, he claims he’s “one of the nicer showrunners that’s ever been.”

    I’d hate to meet the other showrunners.

    • The sad thing is, he’s probably right, on some level. There are some pretty nasty people in Hollywood. Perhaps he’s comparing himself to Harvey Weinstein (no excuse for his behavior, though).

    • Bingo, Spinach. This was the key sentence for me in the piece. Whedon has unresolved mommy issues. His mommy made him feel inadequate as a little boy, and so he’s spent his entire life creating dominant women characters like her so he can dominate them in fantasy revenge scenarios. When it gets *really* evil IMHO is not in his screenwriting and directing (though that’s still pretty evil), but in his intimate relationships. He even admitted it! He discovered in college that he could parrot the feminist lines he learned from his mother and other feminists to get close to women, and then he would abuse them to get revenge on his mother. That’s why the faux feminism thing really enrages me: because he was using it specifically as a tactic to attract and abuse women.

      • >His mommy made him feel inadequate as a little boy, and so he’s spent his entire life creating dominant women characters like her so he can dominate them in fantasy revenge scenarios.

        Wow Okupin. I never thought of it that way. Fascinating theory which explains everything.

      • This. Passive aggressive as hell amd when he’s called out on it he doesn’t have the guts to address it directly but says others pushed him to it. Relies on victims keeping quiet amd not disrupting the narrative. Such a creep.

    • The bar is so low in that industry the devil won’t use the loo in it.

      I feel like I know this guy. Wormy rageaholic pervs with that unattractive, chinless insecurity abound. Their mates should get combat pay and probably full-body dental sealants to ward off STDs.

    • Yep. “one of the nicer showrunners that’s ever been,” is a looooow bar.

      It’s like being one of the “nicer managers” at Enron.

      • One of the “nice managers” at Enron. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (wail).

        I shouldn’t laugh. That was a dark chapter in American history and people died.

        I worked in media. All I can say is that no one ever successfully coerced me into sleeping with them to get or keep a job and the several attempted sexual assaults, including a roofie incident, failed. I won a lawsuit and put two pervy creeps behind bars (for lamentably short periods– 13 days max).

        I wish I could report consequences to all the Vichy female pimps/enablers in that industry too. I got one fired for witness tampering during the case against a violent harasser and she tried (and failed) to beat me up in a parking lot over it. I guess there’s small satisfaction in that. Generally I only share these stories with veterans, like my producer friend who worked with Harvey Weinstein two miserable times. He (the producer friend) had nightmares for years about that experience. I have model friends who dealt with Gerald Marie of Elite France. We end up laughing, mostly out of relief to be in understanding company.

        Otherwise I have to be careful who I mention my “stories” to since they shock the pants off people who don’t work in industries like this. Or worse, they assume I’m lying or trying to make myself out to be some irresistible vixen. Nope. Just had a pulse, naive ideals and needed my paycheck.

        I think #MeToo has barely made a dent but like Sisyphus, the effort must continue. I’m glad Whedon was exposed.

        • You rock, Hell of a Chump! And I love your story. People like you are my heroes. ????????

          And yes I’m afraid as an outsider we only see the top of the iceberg. This is why it makes me so angry when victim stories are minimized or not even believed. There is still a looong way to go.

          • You are so kind, thank you.

            My extremely wealthy, born-on-third-base older narc exec cousin loved to remind me (before I went NC with her) that I was a loser because I quit the industry and didn’t “make it” in media. I would always cock my head at her like a confused spaniel because I felt entirely successful given the reality of that field. I made a bit of a mark and never had to suck c*ck for the opportunity. Anyone who fucked with me paid the price. I protected other innocent people (female and male), several of whom are still my beloved friends.

            I wish I could put that on my resume. I win. I preserved a part of myself that I was able to apply to other types of work. I strongly recommend fighting back and defending one’s soul and basic principle. Sure you make less money but I wouldn’t trade.

            My cousin was later transferred to Siberia by her company when she rose too high. She’d previously lectured me about how there was no glass ceiling. I feel bad for her but cutting contact was like an exorcism. My poor cousin was a capitulator.

    • “… yet he discovered he was capable of sleeping with them and ghosting or whatever.”


      UBT: He discovered he gets off on abusing women.

    • Textbook DARVO. I’d like to see high school health classes that actually teach kids something about boundaries, healthy relationships, consent, DARVO, manipulative tactics and abuse. Give them a list of quotes like the one above, from famous fuckwits, and ask them to diagram the DARVO. Then have them journal (and if safe/comfortable to do so, discuss) examples from their own lives; finally, problem solve and brainstorm the potential responses available to them. I suppose it would be important to have them look at situations where they might be using the DARVO tactic on others, even exploring the alternatives available to them in those situations – or considering how their actions align with their values, and the other choices and outcomes available. Sorry, getting carried away. (Just took a hit of hopium.)

      Psychologist Jennifer Freyd, who coined the term DARVO and studies the effects of trauma on abuse victims, conducted a study which suggested that participants who had been previously educated about the “perpetrator tactic” of DARVO were more likely to question the perpetrators’ narratives and to believe abuse victims, rather than to side with or feel sorry for the perpetrators and victim blame (a very common response). According to Freyd, “results suggest that DARVO is an effective strategy to discredit victims but that the power of the strategy can be mitigated by education.”

      Freyd’s comprehensive page about DARVO, which links to the study I referenced and more:

  • Number one way to find the rot in the apple barrel. Find the apple that’s blaming everyone else. Or in more juvenile parlance, “He who smelt it..”

  • So if I understand this correctly, listening to Shakespeare results in an inability to control one’s dick.

    Hmm….I need time to process this ????????????

    • I think what he’s saying is that the adults in his life were too busy being intellectual to cater to his needs, so he decided to join the club and then exact his vengeance, as passive aggressively as possible through the very weapons he feels they wounded him with

    • “But man, proud man,
      Dress’d in a little brief authority,
      Most ignorant of what he’s most assur’d—
      His glassy essence—like an angry ape
      Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
      As makes the angels weep; who, with our spleens,
      Would all themselves laugh mortal.” W. Shakespeare

  • I am sure this has been said here already…but here’s a truth I am willing to back 100% and one that I live by now: If you have to say you are a nice guy/person, you most likely are NOT a nice guy/person. Because having to say it means that your actions speak differently and you are in a position to have to defend said actions. Actions reveal the truth. Period. End of story.

    • My FW bellowed how everyone thought he was a “NICE GUY!” (Harrumph, pout). I mumbled that thiscwas true when I’ve never heard anyone but a narcissist or abusive borderline refer to themselves as an “empath.” The one exception was a very young woman emerging from an abusive family whose pop-psych guru webinar therapist bandied the term “empath” around in place of the apparently boring words “survivor” or “victim.” It seemed like “buzz term branding” for a commercial enterprise.

      Back in my skein-untangling spree, I saw a reddit sub for side pieces in which all called themselves “empaths.” I had a needed laugh. Apparently a sub for highly selective empaths– mucho empathy for adulterous douches with wallets and zero for embezzled, beleagured chumps and chump children.

    • Similarly, as my XW was leaving me and the kids for the AP (whose marriage – including kids – she was also breaking up), she declared defiantly “I *am* a good mother”. Not so much, actually.

      • Well ain’t that special? If only I’d known that breaking up multiple families would get me the “mommy of the year” award. Meanwhile I, as a chump, was accused of being a “dangerous” mother.

        The grounds for this proclamation were that I fainted at the doctor’s office from mysterious and rapid weight loss before D-day. Call it the DARVO diet. You eat and eat and stress burns everything off. It was implied I had an eating disorder and was crazy and unfit, etc. Thankfully the family doctor put two and two together, recognized what was what and cancelled FW’s Viagra prescription without saying a word. Then she prescribed supplements to counter my excessive cortisol. I adore that doctor. Never underestimate stylish, unflappable women with perfect makeup who think before they speak and know how to accessorize.

  • To Heather Horton (his latest wife)

    Lord, what fools these mortals be!
    -William Shakespeare

    If she were in the dark about him, I’d almost feel sorry for her. But no.

  • women

    i mean i’m here
    to suck up all the air in the space i opened for you
    i mean i brought my own Final Draft software,
    up and running. running. i mean i’m a draft.
    i’m a bad draft. i’m a red-haired thing
    and if you look away from me, even
    for a minute, i’ll poison you,
    chip away at you.

    i mean i never met an actress i didn’t
    want to fuck.
    i mean they remind me of my mother,
    i mean my mother was dead
    sexy, and i’m a twisted an ugly thing.
    i mean i look so good in this hat. running,
    always running up and down the the driveway
    at the farmhouse in schenectady. creating fantasy
    shows in my head, duelling with my absent father,
    a showrunner.
    i mean i’m a showrunner.

  • I love lots about Buffy, but learning about Whedon over the past few years has reemphasized for me how much our society dismisses teamwork in favor of a “great man” mythos. Buffy wasn’t an interesting show because of Whedon, it was interesting because of the dozens of writers, directors, actors, and tech people who worked on it for years. Similarly, fantastic corporations are successful not because of their CEO but because of the hundreds of employees. Sure, a great artist or leader can make a difference, but we need to stop attributing success to the one instead of the many. And in the case of Buffy, it becomes clearer and clearer that the show succeeded despite Whedon, not because of him. I can only imagine how toxic a work environment it must have been with him manipulating young women into bed (he was their boss), threatening others, and no doubt making passes at even more of them.

    The interview (I read it all the way through) is appalling. He still cannot even summon the decency to pretend that having affairs with the young women on set was a bad decision. And he still insists he is “nicer” than most other people in the business.

    • I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for Buffy (and Dr. Horrible). And you’re right, its a team effort that made it great. He’s a turd, no doubt about that. It’s so easy to fall for the narrative that it was all his doing, and not the efforts of many people working to make it great. There is a lot about our culture that celebrates the narcissist, and forgives rotten behavior, in politics, Hollywood, Celebrity Chefs, big business…….

  • Whedon has revealed himself to be a complete disappointment. I read the entire interview and his smug dismissals of people who trusted in and depended upon him have dispelled all ambiguity about his true character. He made Woody Allen and Roman Polanski look noble.

  • Lots of articles out there from 2012 – 2015 from Whedon’s ex-wife that he cheated on her and used their marriage as a shield. Hopefully she’s read LACGAL.

  • Oh boy, I know this type of self-proclaimed feminist all too well… XFW called himself one too for hiring cute lady interns every year. Called it mentoring and tapped himself on the back profusely every time. Patronizing ass…All the while fucking behind his own wife’s back and being as unhelpful as humanly possible. I was also told multiple times by him that I didn’t mean what I said because English was not my first langage. Feels great! I said “fuck you” and for the record, I really really meant it.

  • We use words to communicate, but language is a living thing. New words are created, and old words can adopt new meanings over time. As an example, my maternal grandmother used the word “queer” to describe things which she found to be peculiar. She was a gentle soul and went out of her way not to hurt other people’s feelings. Her words would be misinterpreted today. There has always been a “discussion” about specific words used in an author’s work. Are they inappropriate? Do the words accurately describe the attitudes common at the time the work was written, or the period when the work was set? Do they propagate racism or misogyny? I struggle with this, because I love literature and movies and plays and I don’t believe we should change another person’s written work. That seems like censoring art to me. On the other hand, I would not take young children to see many of the movies and plays I enjoy or read some of the books I enjoy because it is not age appropriate for them, and they have not had time to develop discernment.

    We often talk about the family and children and the effects of splitting up after a relationship becomes untenable on this site. Yesterday, the word “chump” was questioned by Resident Tengu, and defended by our esteemed leader, Chump Lady. If you have strong feelings about words, and how you want to be portrayed or described by others, you have every right to refuse to use certain words or accept certain portrayals. You can choose to shield your children, or not. But you cannot change history.

    Many people have tried to rewrite history, but the truth of what happens has a way of coming out, eventually. I have been amazed by how different actual past events happened, and how they were portrayed and taught to me as history in elementary school. Personally, I prefer the truth. It may be painful, or embarrassing, and it may change the way you view your ancestors, but in fact humans are not ideal creatures.

    When the feminist movement became politically active in the US, many “mistakes” were made. It was a movement, people. “Mistakes” are determined in hindsight. Mistakes and egregious errors are made every day by people in power. Some of the moves are deliberate, some are simply awkward attempts to promote an agenda. Sometimes an idea has to be described in terms that are understood at that moment in time. No one wants to be a victim, making women characters “hyper-masculine” to promote feminism is probably not a good idea. If you want to stop oppression, you probably don’t need to adopt the qualities of the oppressor.

    To over-simplify, you are who you are, and you know what you know when you know it. Our FOO did have a huge impact on developing who we became, but once we start to question those “lessons” taught we also are of age to reject some of them. My ancestors had certain traits I consider “good” and some I consider “awful”. I am not my ancestor. I have choices in life. I may have been a victim more than once in my life. It does not mean I am stupid or weak now. If you don’t like the words, stupid and weak, can you substitute vulnerable and naive? No one is prepared by their upbringing to face every challenge the world may offer. We have to adapt and survive. We have to learn. We have to develop our own defense systems. My choices may not be your choices.

    This Whedon fellow may be a product of his upbringing. The “Me-too” movement has exposed many attitudes and activities that were common practice when I was a young woman entering the workplace. I had to navigate the dangers by myself and choose how to handle certain situations by myself because at that time there was no movement, or laws to support my personal distaste or outrage that power was being abused. This man represents many reprehensible things — he needs to grasp the fact “times have changed,” and he may have to change behaviors. If he is a malignant narcissist, he may never change, but it will become harder to hide now that he’s been “outed.”

    My elementary biology classes taught me organisms adapt and change to changes in their environment, or they die. If this is correct, then I think it applies to humans, too. No human I know can predict or avert all changes that they experience during a lifetime. If you are exposed to a powerful malignant force, and you are not prepared, you may well become a victim. If you survive, you are capable of making changes to defend against another attack. Being a victim does not define who you become. It is a description of who you were at the time you were attacked. If you don’t like my words, post your own opinion and use different words. I have learned many things from reading the critiques of others. Hopefully, even though I am older now, I am still capable of change.

  • Whedon’s EX has complex PTSD from his years of his abuse… and not only does he have the gall to call her liar, he claims to have the same disorder he inflicted upon her.

    • Ha, yeah I didn’t follow the connection he was trying to make about his upbringing (of having parents who enjoyed drinking and having erudite discussions?) and having trauma. A child living with alcoholic parents absolutely can develop C-PTSD. But what he was describing sure didn’t seem to be that.

      • Yeah it’s like he’s read about childhood and relationship trauma at a number of sources and is trying to throw situations at a wall to see what gets traction in terms of gaining him sympathy. For a ‘master storyteller’ his narrative isn’t very cohesive but I found a lot of his stuff trades in smart-ass one liners, cheap sentimentality and cliched payoffs anyway.

      • It appears he was also referencing the death of a friend when he was five. Disgusting to use the death somebody he likely hardly remembers to excuse being a prick.

        My fw tried to get sympathy with every unfortunate thing ever- including being dropped by his uncle as an infant, and event he has no memory of and was told of by his pathologically lying BPD mother, so it may not even be true.
        I told him being dropped on his head only explains his IQ, not his personality.

        • My ex tried to get sympathy from me for things that happened to me! Things he did to me, too (though that’s classic cheater).

          • That figures. Tell a cheater you were in a devastating bike accident which caused permanent paralysis in both legs and s/he’ll tell you about getting a calf cramp from spin class, then brag about how s/he is the fittest rider in the group.

  • Once I read that he was dating women in their 20s after his wife divorced him, I knew all I needed to know.

    I still enjoy Buffy and Firefly. But there were many people involved in making that show and in my mind they get the credit.

    • I read the article, much of it without context because I didn’t watch Buffy at all.

      One commenter wrote, “ This is a he said, she said kind of thing.. everybody has their stories, views, perspective, etc. But so many of you act like he committed horrifical crimes when it is 2022, a time period of trendy sensitivity pushing everyone else to walk around eggshells. Some of the stories do not add up either.. especially the one where he supposedly had sex with an actress on the floor behind someone in her office. While I do view Joss as an ass and has hurt a few, I believe most of this is blown out of proportion in attempt to dethrone him with the typical angry Internet mobsters of today’s time.. and it worked. I wonder who is next.”

      Fascinating, that this person views “horrifically crimes when it is 2022” as “trendy sensitivity”. Likely what a number of people think, lacking in critical thinking, to realize that the narrative was wrong all along. Let’s go back to the 50s, when casting couches were acceptable. Before the Civil Rights Movement. When wife appliances knew their places.

      • “While I do view Joss as an ass and has hurt a few, I believe most of this is blown out of proportion…”

        x would like you to believe the same of him

        a serial cheater liar user fraud sad sausage covert narc ‘nice guy’

        whose behaviors over a 39 year mirage had been “blown out of proportion.”

    • “Once I read that he was dating women in their 20s after his wife divorced him…”

      ‘After.’ Huh. So what he was doing with (and to) women in their twenties *before* his wife divorced didn’t count as dating?

      And, agreed… that detail tells all.

  • I used to like Buffy The Vampire Slayer because it was always a girl who saved the day.

    I’m so sorry to learn years later that the girls on set needed to be saved from Whedon.

  • So weird how he has the same horrible mental illness he gave his ex-wife…

    I read as much as I could stomach if the article and conckuded that he’s just a sad, limp, deposed false god, pining for his cult of worshippers.

    Sir, you broke your own temple, now you’re sad that only you wants to rebuild it? Nah.

  • Never heard of this guy (and I’m in the U.S. and watch a lot of TV (Netflix, Hulu, etc.) and scan the tabloids at the checkout stand so I am not living under a rock. He sounds like a sociopath. The blameshifting and gaslighting and supreme entitlement are clues. I hope he gets his ass handed to him by the industry (and multiple lawsuits) but I won’t hold my breath.

    As for growing up as upper middle class white in the 70s causing CPTSD, that’s further narc-thought. I grew up with gorgeous sexy parents (beauty queen mom and entertaining charming JD/MD/corporate executive dad) who drank and smoked and played tennis at several country clubs, danced, played in bridge clubs, traveled to exotic locales, knew “all the right people” and had lavish parties with drunkenness, laughter and riotous dancing (just like Mad Men portrayed). I am not a cheating narcissist. I have never drank or smoked. I’m well-adjusted and a blessing to my family, friends, and community. I practice the Golden Rule.

    Joseph (née “joss”) you are a douche canoe. Fuck off.

    • I never heard of him before I came here either. I think that’s part of his problem. He wants to be famous and will say anything to get there, even if he has to make a fool of himself, because people with this little self awareness can’t open their mouths and not make fools of themselves.

      I’d say I hope this does not reflect a trend of abusive shitwits who cause CPTSD claiming they have CPTSD, but I think that ship has already sailed.

  • “He’d wanted people to love him, which meant when he was direct, people thought he was harsh.”

    Dear Joss,

    This statement doesn’t make sense. Is English not your first language?
    Are you saying that due to your alleged pathetic feelings, other people had negative feelings about what you said to them? They somehow intuited that you desperately wanted them to love you, so when you were blunt in your critiques it seemed harsh in comparison to how a desperate-to-be-loved person would behave? If so, that would only be because it isn’t how desperate-to-be-loved people behave. Ask a chump about that one, asshuffer. Ask a chump who is desperately trying to hold onto a spouse if we say stuff like; “I rate your performance at 69 as a three out of twenty and you burned my steak last night, not to mention the bagged salad. Do better or you’ll never eat lunch in this town again.”

    This interview is full of whiny, fuckwitted word salad noise. I knew there was a reason I hated that show. I mean, besides the fact that it was stupid. Hey, it’s almost like I intuited your clownish face and dribbly dick. I’m not being harsh, just HONEST.

  • I read the article and very much identified with the woman who questioned how she could see the bad parts of someone while in other people’s experience they saw only the good. Exactly like my narcissist ex. I bore the brunt of the abuse and the pain he caused while to everyone else he was this generous, amazing person.

  • Everything he says sounds nothing like what an innocent man would say. People who are actually doing the work of becoming a better person acknowledge what they’ve done, stop whatever harmful behavior they were engaged in, and make attempts at making amends. He’s digging his own grave deeper every time he opens his mouth. In my own life, Traitor X claims to be “working on his issues.” Yet two weeks ago he said he feels like he is “being cut out” and is upset about it. Both Dr. Kickass CoParent and I had to remind him he chose to have an affair and leave. His sentiments only served to reveal he is not doing the work he claims. He opts out of our family and now feels like he is being cut out? Can you say cuckoo? I’m grateful for the rock solid validation that divorce was the right next thing to do after DDay.

    I don’t recall Mr. Rogers, the original and irreplaceable gold standard real life walking with matching talking definition of nice, ever getting any press like this.

    Long ago people accepted abusing children and animals and blamed rape and domestic violence victims. Cheating is one of the newest frontiers where work needs to be done assigning responsibility to the correct parties and calling infidelity the abuse that it is. Abuse by all those knowingly involved in duping the spouse/committed partner in the dark. And I’m using the launch codes on anyone who knew what he was doing and didn’t tell me. No one who truly cares about my well-being, or my child’s, would stand by silently while he was fucking over our family. It’s called COLLUDING WITH VIOLENCE in DV parlance.

    It’s crazy making that people have affairs and cite love as a defense. If they understood the word and lived its meaning in word and deed, they would never get involved in an affair.

  • I guess it’s easier to write noble characters with integrity than to be noble. When you cannot be gracious when you’ve got the world on a string, there is no hope for you.

  • Somewhere there is a publicist banging their head against a wall. This asshat really thought what he was saying would clear his name. It is the most delusional self-own ever.

  • This interview was so bonkers that initially I thought it was a parody. It’s like he took interview lessons from Prince Andrew. Although several posters said that they have no idea who he is, he is renowned and even revered in certain segments of fandom. That whole piece was filled with covert narc rage. He’d been used to getting gold-plated kibbles for YEARS and now the kibble factory has dried up. Cue up enormous crocodile tears. For those of you not in fandom, he really stuck his foot in it when he tried to paint actor Gal Gadot as an idiot, a woman who is now lauded in the superhero/fandom universe. This is stupidity on a grand scale, but then the ego of narcs must never be underestimated. The sad thing is that Whedon was/is such a force in fandom, I am sure that a percentage of fans will still revere him. Of course the rest of the world will always see him as a gigantic douchebag, but after some PR stunts, he will probably get work again. Look at Johnny Depp, Polanski-apologist, he’s still working (albeit less).

    • Yes am I the only one who is enraged by Depp getting away with just about everything?? I even saw his ridiculous face on a billboard selling perfume again! And same probably for Brad Pitt although I haven’t been following his story.

      • The Depp apologists are legion. Every single argument I’ve heard supporting Depp always starts with, but Amber is a gold digger and she pushed him over the edge. At that point I nope out. I saw the video. She might be a sociopath, I don’t care. That footage was terrifying. And the thing is, I used to be a huge fan of his. He was an amazing actor until booze and drugs pickled his brains. I ignored a lot of red flags (trashing of hotels rooms and the whole River Phoenix death) that I can’t ignore anymore. His support of Polanski was a red flag too far for me. However, JKR has decided he is the hill she will die on, so there you are.

  • Yep, Joss is awful, and that article was no help . But I also believe that there are a lot of awful people in Hollywood. DV authors like Lundy Bancroft and Don Hennessy wrote that although all abusers are toxic, but some are definitely more dangerous/devastating than others. I’m sure that there are worse show runners.

    I’m wondering about this because some of the reports I’m hearing don’t sound realistic, like maybe other cruel narcs are jumping on the bandwagon, who I’d like to put on my list of people whom I should be on guard against too. Like for instance, this anonymous source in this Vulture article . Joss screwing in front of another person in her office while she was there seems a little too blatant, too mood ruining. Maybe that “informant” needed to explain a gap in her resume. I wonder if she used this story to bond with that journalist, and create a false sense of trust. I wouldn’t want to wade into that snake pit.

    One day, he and one of the actresses came into her office while she was working. She heard a noise behind her. They were rolling around on the floor, making out. “They would bang into my chair,” she said. “How can you concentrate? It was gross.” This happened more than once, she said. “These actions proved he had no respect for me and my work.” She quit the show even though she had no other job lined up.

  • He has PTSD because his parents used to drink in the afternoons, and it is therefore a reason to threaten young women who won’t fuck him? And then he thinks people don’t like him not because of his narcissism, threats and misogyny, but “maybe I’m just too nice of a guy?” Okay…

  • “I feel f***ing terrible about them,” he said, adding that such affairs with a director mess “up the power dynamic”. He defended his decision to have them at the time, though, noting that he felt he “had” to sleep with beautiful young women he was surrounded by and was “powerless” to resist.

    The poor man, chumps, where is your compassion here?? Can’t we all understand that he HAD” to boink beautiful woman!?
    What choice did he have, they were right there on his set?
    This certainly can’t be seen as Josh’s issue, his complete lack of any self awareness or professional integrity. When you have to, you have to.
    The poor sad sack of potatoes had literally no control over his deveining rod of a dick as it traveled unfettered through the California hills searching out vaginas worthy of the gift of ………HIM.

  • Everyone has contributed excellent commentary here; all I can say is that my ex was super into Joss Whedon stuff when we first met; I did watch most of Firefly, and mostly low-key enjoyed it, but ex was mad because I wasn’t ALL IN FOR WHEDON! He pouted that I wouldn’t watch the entire Buffy series on DVD with him providing color commentary the whole time. And now I know… one covert narc recognized, and admired, another one. Led to many demands that I explain feminism to him, so he could judge whether it was worthwhile or not. WHY did I even date him, let alone marry??? Never mind, I’m out now.

    • A lot of that sounds familiar, Dawn. Explaining feminism is similar to explaining basic decency… and to explaining how cheating is abuse, for that matter. (Or, in my case, how following, trapping, dragging, shoving and shaking someone who is half your size is abuse.)

      My alternately TFC/macho ex was a big fan of podcasts and listened to a lot of Joe Rogan, Bill Burr, Tim Ferris, the Meat Eater guys, Dan Harris, and at one time – big yikes – Stefan Molyneux. There were others I can’t remember now, but most had a similar profile, and *all* were men. I never criticized his tastes, even though they weren’t my cup of tea, but I began to notice the pattern and lack of balance. I think it fed his entitled, arrogant, sexist view of the world. He was so condescending and judgemental and never refrained from sharing his opinion (a/k/a “truth”), yet he had such narrow experiences with the world and showed little interest, empathy or appreciation for people whose experiences were outside of his own.

      So odd that I ever thought we were deeply compatible! My mind filled in a lot of blanks (and was force fed a lot of intentionally misleading BS). About ten years into our relationship, I began to gradually pick up on some major differences in judgement, values and interests. I was coming to terms with this – and making plans to leave – before dday1, but somehow, even that didn’t stop me from Pick Me! WTF?

  • The mugs from the past two days *are* caricatures – no comics needed. Same goes for their words: lure these fuckwits from their dens of iniquity with a little peanut butter (and from a safe and sane post-PTSD position), and they will reveal their cowardly, malingering, misogynistic selves better than the most articulate and perceptive chump ever could.

  • Yes, Joss repeatedly damns himself and tries to claim feminist credit for the work done by others. Here are two examples.

    Some sleazy, inarticulate words from Joss, congratulating himself on his not-so-clever puns and innuendo:
    Joss Whedon @joss
    Three years ago I bought my first Heather Horton painting. I’d racked up two more when I met her last year and became in love. I’ll never not marvel at the articulate passion of her brush. Hope she feels the same about showtunes n puns, heh, anyway WEBSITE

    And here, from his own site, he seems to be trying to take (feminist) credit by association for the work of an unrelated organization, One Vote at at Time (female filmmakers who have created hundreds of campaign ads for candidates who back gun control) because one of them was filmed at his house–for free, as Joss points out. One Vote did the work and it’s One Vote that does it for free, not Joss, as he seems to imply.
    Joss Whedon @joss Nov 6, 2020
    Near three years ago Sarah Ullman shot @staceyabrams first campaign videos (for free) at my house. #OneVoteataTime has shot hundreds since. Grateful to be a part of Sarah’s vision & to have heard Ms. Abrams’ in person. One Vote at a Time is how you count ‘em, too. @thesillysully

    BTW, Whedon’s physical violence against his cast has been reported online in videos for a decade or so. Actor James Marsters, who played “Spike” on both Buffy and the Angel spinoff, has been filmed at fan conventions telling how Whedon threw him against the wall, raging at Spike’s popularity and threatening to destroy him. Marsters has been asked if Whedon was joking or horsing around, and has repeatedly said that Whedon was not. Marsters has said from the start that his response to Whedon was to acknowledge that the director has the prerogative to do what he wants. Also, BTW, Buffy, the title character who is supposedly “Heaven’s Chosen One” and is supposed to be a feminist role model, repeatedly beat Spike, before and during her affair with him, including beating him unconscious and that left him with a black eyes a week or more later. She’s stronger and clearly the aggressor, forcing him to have sex even when he says no, threatening in all seriousness to kill him if anyone finds out about their secret affair. Through much of the series, when she wanted his help or information, she’d slam her way into his home and immediately hit him, often bloodying and breaking his nose. This is not feminism.
    Whedon has told media that the character Xander represented Whedon himself. Xander was presented as the nice, funny guy who was the heart of the group and Buffy’s staunch supporter. Xander also attempted to rape Buffy, then claimed he was under a hyena’s influence, didn’t remember and therefore wasn’t guilty. He cheated on his first girlfriend and then blamed Spike when they were discovered kissing, even though Spike wasn’t present. Xander continuously and publicly disparaged and shamed his girlfriend/fiance. And Xander pressured Buffy to literally run after and forgive the boyfriend who had cheated on her and when discovered, told her to forgive him immediately or he’d leave town right then. In retrospect, we can sure see why Whedon identified with Xander, the self-proclaimed nice guy who really isn’t, and the probable origins of many of the script elements that seemed so out of character.

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