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When the OW’s Kid Insults You

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mindfuckDear Chump Lady,

I am 4 years past D-Day and after the shock, getting past all the manipulation (really I’m a gold digger!? then where is all the gold?), the legal yuck, and then the scary threatening and needling text and letter and gift barrage (20+ threatening and insulting messages per day!), now I thought I’m pretty close to meh. My life with FW was so tiny, like I didn’t exist, and the first day in my new apartment with my kids I remember the feeling : freedom! Feels good to breathe without worrying I might do it wrong and get in trouble.

I love your blog and it helped me so much. When I left I still believed what FW told me, that I was a very bad and probably worthless person and didn’t really have the right to go. I spent a lot of time at night wrestling with this question in my mind and I seem to have come out on top. But my little secret is that I didn’t really leave because of finding out about the cheating, like the strong and brave people on your blog. I think I would have kept spackling over that like everything else. I left because he said I had to shut up or he will kill me, he looked like he really meant it, but then he broke a chair instead of me (phew!).

So my question is this. The daughter of the New Girl saw me, and she asked my daughter, ‘Is that your grandma?’ No foul to her, I do look grandma-age compared to her mother, the New Girl. But it gave me a little ‘ouch’ moment. Maybe I’m not over things? Where is meh?

Thank you for everything you do Chump Lady and thank you to the other Chumps!

With my kind gratitude,

S

Dear S,

I dunno. Is this an insult? Have you seen the grandmothers of Ukraine? These are some epically badass women. Like the one in this viral video, who confronts a Russian solider:

Now then, in life, do you want to be New Girl Barbie or do want to be “Put these sunflower seeds in your pocket and die,” Babushka Lady?

Would you rather be Schmoopie or a “I Googled how to make Molotov cocktails” granny?

#TeamGrandma here.

You cannot let the ageism of children rattle you, S. This kid has the great misfortune to have a dimwitted mother with an abusive boyfriend. This doesn’t end well.

You, on the other hand, are a badass who escaped an abusive marriage. Own your awesomeness. Don’t let some fuckwit set the price on your self-worth. (Or the OW’s kid.)

But my little secret is that I didn’t really leave because of finding out about the cheating, like the strong and brave people on your blog. I think I would have kept spackling over that like everything else. I left because he said I had to shut up or he will kill me

Both are abuse. You left because he was abusive. Period. Full-stop. You don’t need to qualify it. It takes a lot of bravery to get out, so stop concluding you’re somehow less than.

You left him, but you also need to leave his mindfuck. That you can’t. That you’re weak. That you don’t matter.

Those voices are an occupying force in your head. Hand them some sunflower seeds and tell them to die.

You got this. (((S)))

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • It is called trauma bonding. This is what CL writes about. You are still trying to unravel that skein he had wrapped around you.

    What a child says is based on their age. Not your concern.

    If you want to eat some popcorn and sit in a recliner then get comfortable. There he is, Mr. Wonderful, trying to be something he is not, a decent person. Wonder how long before she finds out? Still, not your concern.

    • I noticed that in places where people often start having kids in high school (or earlier), there’s an assumption that anyone having kids in the urban/higher education norm of their late twenties/early thirties is “old.” I was told (somewhat snarkily) by some idiot from Venezuela that my family must be worried that I’d waited until 25 to start having kids. It’s all relative.

      I want to give my “language matters” spiel about the term trauma bonding to urge people to use the original and better (for many reasons) term “captor bonding.” Sorry for the soap box. I’ve gotten sort of fixated on it after the waste-of-time-and-money experience of going through wreckonciliation and noticing how RIC therapists are trying to hijack and whitewash select aspects of PTSD research and therapy to make themselves seem legitimate and, I think, prevent victims from accessing far better resources. It reminds me exactly of the bad therapy that many battering victims were subjected to when I was working as an advocate. A lot of our work and probably the greatest positive impact we made other than providing practical resources involved taking the therapeutic victim-blaming stones one by one out of survivors’ pockets and explaining the politics of victim-blaming to help survivors build immunity against future bs. The latter really made a difference. It became a kind of cheerful sport for survivors to recognize and trample on blame-ology. We even had limerick days like CL.

      So, spiel: The original term “captor bonding” was coined by founding PTSD expert and former associate director of the US National Institute of Mental Health even before the bank hostage crisis in Stockholm in the 70s was dubbed “Stockholm Syndrome” by the media. In looking up the term one would find over 50 years of important and helpful resources and research on victimology like Ochberg’s research compilation of the best voices in the field “Post-traumatic Therapy and the Victims of Violence,” etc., which is wonderful because it clearly distinguishes shitty, victim-blaming therapy from restorative therapy. But looking up the term “trauma bonding” mostly leads to a dead end of CSAT pop-psych drivel in which victims aren’t really victims and perps aren’t really perps– basically doing a loop back to moldy, shitty victim-blaming therapeutic approaches of yore. I think of the mutant term as a vandalized road sign pointing victims and bystanders off a cliff.

      No surprise since the term trauma bonding was coined by CSAT founder and “cheaters are poor sausage addicts” guru Patrick Carnes hijacked the term, surgically altered it by removing any implication of victim or perpetrator (captor) and replaced it with “trauma bonding” which evokes the image of two victims clinging to each other in a storm. Naturally sexual abusers love the implication that they’re just co-victims (a hair away from victim-of-their-victims) which is what has made sex addiction/RIC therapy such a cash cow. Imagine if batterers were called “punching addicts” (so, like, why aren’t they holed up in meat lockers compulsively pounding sides of beef?) Never mind that, according to Ochberg and the original foundations of psychotraumatology, it’s extremely damaging to victims to be given equal responsibility for abuse and to have it implied that their own abusers are equal victims, it was traditionally abusers who signed therapists’ checks and abusers are hardly going to voluntarily pay for therapy if their abuse is called what it is. Furthermore, therapists could lose their licenses for trying to reconcile victims with abusers, therefore any implication of fault/abuse has to be removed in order for this wing of therapy to make money, moreover exist.

      So the mutant term “trauma bonding” is part of an economic strategy for an increasingly damaging wing of therapy. I know a lot of well-meaning pop psych practitioners have picked up on it and some have even started to nudge the meaning of “trauma bonding” back in the original direction but there’s still a sticky cloud of yuck surrounding the expression because of it’s history and misuse.

      Good “nosology” or disease-naming names cause when cause is known. But the “cause” often doesn’t like the specificity. For instance, Big Coal and other major mercury polluters don’t love it when medical conditions are dubbed, say, “Mercury-Induced Membranous Nephropathy,” etc. These companies will form public-private partnerships with the EPA, FDA, NIH and CDC and pour money into teaching hospitals in an effort to scuttle and obscure the association between their products and health implications even to the point of changing the names of conditions. People today would probably be surprised at the number of modern mystery ailments which have been known since the time of the Romans to be caused by mercury because the names of the conditions obscure this and, even worse, treatments often don’t even address cause (cue Big Pharma to sell drugs that suppress symptoms but don’t cure).

      Anyway, changing a perfectly accurate disease name to remove known cause is a dangerous political act. On a societal level, abusers of all scales engage in endless and elaborate cover ups and obfuscations. This is just one little part of it.

      Okay, off my box and end of spiel.

      • Thank you for this. I always disliked the term trauma bonding. I spent time with CSATs and when one mentioned trauma to me, it felt like someone finally understood what I was going through. But trauma bonding, NO! I tried to bond because I was his wife and I wanted a better marriage, I wanted to trust him and share my life with him. It was impossible to bond with a deceptive person. Once I knew the truth I wanted to unstick myself from him.

        • Yep, same with co-dependent.

          No I wasn’t co dependent, I loved my husband and had no idea he was not authenic. I had amazing sex with my H for years, and sex is a part of the bonding process.

          Married couple are supposed to depend on each other, and to place trust in each other.

          The fact that one of the partners is a lying dirt bag does not make the healthy partner co dependent.

          The fact that a physically abused woman stays with an abuser does not always make her co dependent, some time she is just scared shitless and doing her best to plot an escape.

        • Lol, don’t get me started!

          But seriously, divesting survivors of the victim blaming crap is salvation. When my turn came, at least I knew that was the tree to bark up– inspect any way in which I had internalized the bs. I remembered how a woman who had been left legally blind after an assault by a battering ex got up and actually did a sort of football victory (or Baptist revival?) dance in the middle of the room in response to an excerpt from the chapter on the scourge of therapeutic victim-blaming in Ochberg’s book being read in a group meeting. She beamed and called out “The TRUTH will set us FREE!”

          That definitely left an impression. I figure that’s the way it should be. I never danced or beamed in revelation during any of those abysmal RIC sessions. Nope.

      • I just wanted to chime in to say I LOVE this and thank you for posting about it! Have you, by chance, maybe written a book on the topic because I would definitely buy it.

      • Right on, Hell Of A Chump! Thankfully, even though blindsided by my FW’S double life, I promptly fired the CSAT ‘therapist’ when she tried told me “I purposely chose a FW for subliminal reasons”. I told her that was hogwash and never listened to that drivel again. But i do remember wanting to barf when i went to one 12 step group where we were supposed to “own our part”. I told them my part was trusting someone who turned out to be a skunk. Your soap box was very educational. Thank you!

      • That makes sense in context to a young woman I talked to recently who left a narc but has a hard time letting go of those last few things. She knows what she needs to do but feels captive. I am going to mention it to her because she wants desperately to move on.

        • My guess is that some ancient risk-management part of this woman’s brain senses her ex might be capable of serious violence or at least such massive cruelty that it could have had lethal consequences on her health. I’ve never seen anyone feel “captive” who didn’t smell death around the margins. Even if that violence never manifested, we’re wired to respond to subtle cues intimating threat. It’s like glimpsing a poisonous spider out of the corner of your eye. You can make yourself believe it was just a shadow but you’re never going to relax in that room again until there’s been a thorough search and the thing is found, identified and neutralized.

          Maybe that was the wrong analogy because people don’t captor bond with spiders. That hardwired reflex to go into a “boxer’s hug” with perpetrators to seek amnesty exists for a reason even if it frequently outlives its usefulness. That’s why deprogramming is routine even for experienced intelligence operatives who are released from political captivity. I can’t remember which DV expert said that political torture/interrogation must have roots in intimate violence because the tactics and effects are nearly identical. Survivors often need the same deprogramming.

          I’ve found it helps to frame the abuse as a form of violence when it appears someone can’t make the full break. At first many say no, he/she was never aggressive. But once in that framework and freed from the typical social constraint of having to minimize the abuse to avoid being revictimized by bystanders, it often turns out there was violence involved. The tricky and scary thing is that abusers (and proxy abusers) also fixate and tend to fabricate ways in which their own victims were “evil/crazy/dangerous” because guilt is ugly. But I think a lot of chumps develop an ability to tell the difference.

          • “I’ve found it helps to frame the abuse as a form of violence when it appears someone can’t make the full break. At first many say no, he/she was never aggressive. But once in that framework and freed from the typical social constraint of having to minimize the abuse to avoid being revictimized by bystanders, it often turns out there was violence involved. The tricky and scary thing is that abusers (and proxy abusers) also fixate and tend to fabricate ways in which their own victims were “evil/crazy/dangerous” because guilt is ugly. But I think a lot of chumps develop an ability to tell the difference”.

            Wow, it only surfaced in my individual therapy the many times my FW XW was physically abusive toward me and our children, and no before long. Many, many times. The fact that she was a woman of small stature allowed me to avoid questions from what would most certainly be unfriendly bystanders, but not always. I would show up at work with every now and then with nail scratsches on my skin. One time it was across my face and I’ve got inquired about that by a senior coworker. I said it had been one of my autistic son’s tantrums (they were indeed sometimes strong enough to bruise me and FW). And it *became* the truth even for myself along the years.

            Her spanking of the kids (not just in the buttocks) during their preschool years always seemed excessive to me, but I have never mustered the courage to intervene except for once. I don’t know what I was affraid of, I am very ashamed of this, it was my duty to intervene, and whenever I did, the abuse (now I see as such) stopped instantly. I honestly don’t know what was holding me back. It is like it was FW’s god-given right as a mother to spank her children and I would be jeopardizing her authority by standing between her and the kid? But my mom’s got to witness one day my eldest son (a preschooler then) threw up the dinner (he has a very strong gagging reflex and has a hard time with some food’s textures) and his FW mother spanked him while taking off his clothes, sit him naked on the floor still covered by his own vomit and made him eat a fresh meal all over again under the threat of being further spanked. It bewilders me now how could I and my mother be passive in face of this, but we enabled it even though we were horrorized.

            After this episode came up in my IC, I asked my mother why she did neither do nor say anything then. Well, my mom never spared the rod on me and my brother, thus I assumed for years that she just had no objection to that kind of “tough love”. But what she told me was that she was frigthened and affraid that if she said something my FW would hate her even more and distance her gandsons from her. It astounding how such a petite creature as my FW XW can instill so much fear into so many people, I can’t wrap my head around that. Everybody I know (except for new-me) keeps out of her way.

            To sum up: I’ve left several episodes of physical assault slide up to the point I didn’t recognized them as such anymore. That is, if I ever did: in our first year together (I was 16, she was 17) she slapped my face with all her strength (a go-to move of hers through the years) in front of my parents for a silly trick I played on her to make her laugh that caught her off-guard. My father told her that was unnacceptable behaviour and she stormed out of our house crying and, I shit you not, righteously indignant. She told my mother that that happened just because my mom didn’t know how to raise a man. Point is, and this is embarrassing, I sided with FW against my parents and went running after her.

            All along our 20 years together she was depicting me to family and friends (and just whoever would lend a ear) as unhinged, on the verge of spiraling downwards to sheer craziness at any moment.

            So, yes to all you said, Hell of a Chump, and thank you once again for your always insightful and very instructive posts. I love them.

  • CL – I love the way you acknowledge world events – how they can mirror the pain of betrayal and put it in perspective.

    The daughters in this situation may have the roughest road ahead of them. The assumption of happily blended families is part of the societal coverup regarding cheating.

    The chump, S, can be certain that she is much closer to living an honest and grounded life than those still trying to put lipstick on a pig.

  • ALL OF THIS!! Thank you…. I want to be Sunflower seed and Molotov cocktail granny for certain!!!

  • “getting past all the manipulation (really I’m a gold digger!? then where is all the gold?), the legal yuck, and then the scary threatening and needling text and letter and gift barrage (20+ threatening and insulting messages per day!), now I thought I’m pretty close to meh. My life with FW was so tiny, like I didn’t exist, and the first day in my new apartment with my kids I remember the feeling : freedom! Feels good to breathe without worrying I might do it wrong and get in trouble.”

    ^^^^

    I could have written this verbatim.

    On the other topic of OW”s kid – kid’s sometimes say stupid shit and can’t really tell age, and it is more than possible that she is merely parroting what she hears her mother say (or your ex).

    I wouldn’t give it a second thought. Unless to tell yourself that there is so much more to a woman’s value than how young she looks, no matter what BS society tries to sell us.

    I didn’t make the decision to leave my husband either – he kicked me out by threatening that if I didn’t leave, he 1) wouldn’t contribute to the bills (I couldn’t afford the house on my own, and 2) would “make my life a living hell”. He was scary enough that I believed him (he never hit me with fists, but he regularly threw things at me and verbally abused me, broke my things, pushed and shoved me, etc.). So in a way I wasn’t “mighty” like many on here. But there are different ways of being mighty. My therapist repeatedly told me that my instinct to save and document everything (texts, photos of bruises and damage, journal entries to combat the gaslighting) was something to be proud of. Even when I was trying to save my marriage, some part of me knew I would need it. And there did come a point where I emotionally disengaged and embraced my freedom, and that is mighty too. I survived a potentially deadly situation, I got myself back, I got my life together, I let him go. All mighty.

    • I love that you said there are different kinds of mighty. So true. I didn’t leave either but I takes mightiness just to survive, to recover after falling apart and certainly to GAL.

    • Pushing and shoving is felony battering. Threats are felony terrorist threat. And you say you’re not mighty? You lived through a war and deserve a medal of valor and your ex belongs IN JAIL.

      • My therapist said I’d been living a warzone, when I told her I was having panic attacks and PTSD (which didn’t show up until after we split – my therapist accurately pointed out that I couldn’t let myself feel those feelings until I was safe. I was actually far more afraid of him once I was away from the situation). I never called the police because I was still so deep in the delusion that I didn’t want to harm HIM, and also because he was such a smooth talker that I thought he would likely be able to make me look like the deranged one, and I have a security clearance for my job that would have been at risk had I been arrested. He nearly killed me once (not, I think, intentionally, but it was a pretty close call – he threw me on the floor, and my head came within inches of hitting the corner of our piano, which would have been…bad). I wish I’d called the cops, but I just got the hell out of there as fast as I could.

        My ex is dead, actually. Though I can’t actually diagnose someone, he was as far as I can tell a textbook narcissist. When his OW left and he realized the divorce was not going his way (his lawyer dropped him, he knew I had photos – which he tried to get me to destroy – of my bruises and the doors he broke in one of his rages, OW was very publicly claiming he abused her too, the magistrate had ruled in my favor for custody, etc. ), and he was completely out of money, he decided it wasn’t worth it and killed himself. Better to go out with a bang than to lose his reputation.

        I’m lucky I survived. And not only that, I recovered and I am thriving. I have a hard time giving myself credit, but I will say it – I am mighty.

        • As part of healing and to correct any remaining “blame the victim” perspectives that you might be trying to dredge out of your soul like a bathtub stain (as I continue to do), I might recommend criminologist Donald Dutton’s “The Batterer” and PTSD expert and Stockholm Syndrome coiner Frank Ochberg’s “Post-traumatic Therapy and the Victims of Violent Crime,” particularly the chapter on DV by experts Anne Flitcraft and Evan Stark.

          I don’t want to go into a long review but both books are enormously “corrective” regarding pop-psych (or sadly, standard) therapeutic victim-blaming myths and can be applied to any kind of abuse. I think you’ll feel like you’re having boulders lifted off your conscience and feel a little safer knowing there are people with authority out there who really, really, really get it.

          One therapist I knew said abuse is primarily “perspecticide.” Reclaiming a perspective of reality is therefore the course corrector and an act of meaningful rebellion. Or, in your case, to continue your rebellion.

  • I know all about those little “ouch” moments that make us question what level of “meh” we’re really at. That’s why I stay as surgically removed from FW and Wifetress as possible. But, of course when there are children involved, it’s not always possible.

    A few months ago FW and Wifetress attended an event that my kiddo was in with her classmates (I attended on a different performance night) and my kiddo was absolutely gushing about how proud she was that her Dad and Stepmom had made an appearance at her school and she could finally introduce her friends to them. (Context: while my kiddos see FW/Wifetress every weekend, FW/Wifetress have never, in ten years, attended any of the kid’s events). My kiddo was over the moon describing the evening and it eventually culminated in her gushing “And all my friends kept saying ‘Wow, is that your stepmom?! She’s so hot!'” I quickly derailed the conversation, turned her to other topics, and said that I was happy that she had a great time that night and that the evening went well.

    But I felt like a sack of potatoes. An unattractive sack of potatoes. I felt that “the AP is super young and hot and you’re not” ouch. I felt like I was punched in the gut. I went to bed feeling like years of personal work had been undone a bit.

    And I woke up feeling like a million bucks. The “ouch” was fleeting. I feel fine in my own skin and am not concerned about random teenagers opinions of “hotness.” And I feel blessed that I no longer have a partner that I have to carefully be “on my hot game” for 24-7.

    I felt that ouch, yes, but when it passed I felt ten times better. Perhaps this is part of the “meh” journey too.

    • ” And I feel blessed that I no longer have a partner that I have to carefully be “on my hot game” for 24-7.”

      Same here, Fourleaf. Same!

      I’m 5’4″ and when I weighed 130, I was considered to him and his family “fat”. When I dropped down to 120, the FW actually said to me, “Now that you dropped a few pounds, I’ll have sex with you.” I was so shocked by what he said that I was unable to say anything back to him at the time. But I constantly monitored my weight after that. His family was the Food Police at every get-together. If I went for a second helping of something, all eyes were on me. Mind you, his dad and mom were overweight, but for some reason the focus was on me. His dad always made comments on my weight and “figure”. Just so weird!

      I should have seen all the red flags waving before we were even engaged. His mom bought me a scale for my new apartment!!! I weighed about 120lbs at the time. Who buys a scale for someone else? I once brought a half gallon of ice cream over to his house to treat his nephew who was sleeping over. His nephew said to me, “If you eat that ice cream, you are going to get fat!” I could go on and on with stories, but you get my point. It’s a blessing to get away from people like this! My worth is not based on a number on a scale!

      My favorite grandma wore a babushka, and she was born in Hungary. I think she died in 1974. She was always very nice and loving towards me, but I wonder if she would be a badass Babushka Lady in today’s world? She certainly was when my mom and her got in a fight about my cheater dad. Grandma said not to go back to him! Grandma was right, and fast-forward 40ish years, my mom said to me, “Don’t go back to him.”

      I love todays blog post so much, Chump Lady. Thank you so much! I’m going forward channeling my roots of my babushka grandma and I also have 1/4 “tough Russian” roots, but that’s another story. 🙂

      • You’ve reminded me of a recent post on ( I think)r/off my chest……the OP said that her husband wanted an open marriage until she lost the few pounds she had gained. She wanted to know if people thought this was reasonable( she sounded so beaten down). Thousands of replies felt she should drop however much he weighed. Huge red flags there. These Fwits…….once they destroy our sense of self worth have us feeling like we deserve their abuse.

        • Yeah, the abuse happens so slowly, and it’s interspersed with “love”/love-bombing; it’s so confusing and hard to see it for was what it is. Abuse! I should have left this abusive, cheating FW way back in 1992 during the first devalue and discard. But I was confused as to what was going on when my nice, loving, caring boyfriend turned into a cold, mean jerk overnight! Live and learn. Never again!

        • Don’t get me started on how, when I was married to XH the substance abuser, I dropped 20 pounds and was feeling great. His response, “If you keep losing that weight, we’ll have sex again.”

          Should have left that day instead of wasting a few more years.

          • You truly did love a jackass!!! It’s like they think they are some great prize and they can only be with someone who they think is worthy of their wonderfulness. Barf!

          • This must be a thing. My ex-husband said to me, “You’d get more sex if you’d lose some weight.” And then he kept pointing out “hot women” with “great figures” wherever we went.

      • OMG what a weird family zeroing in on your weight! I can only guess they thought they found your Achilles heel and went for it like pigs in shit.

        • It could also be that they had weight issues or he said something to them behind your back. These people are really sick fucks. He could have told them you were preoccupied with your weight or told them he thought you were heavy. I have learned that true narcissists set you up in fucked up ways you wouldn’t believe.

    • I’d make one simple point here, as someone who spends a lot of time with people under the age of 21. In terms of appearance, our culture has shifted from admiring “beauty” to admiring “sexiness” and “hotness.” Being “hot” involves tight clothing, makeup, and showing skin. I survived the “visible thong” and “visible boxer” years, but the age of wearing leggings as pants might kill me.

      Think about the people we really admire. Even in their youth, they were not evaluated on “hotness.”
      Betty White! She should have lived forever!
      Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Watch the movie about her early life. What a badass. What a phenomenal wife. What a tremendous intellect.
      Diane Nash. The often over-looked leader of the Freedom Riders. She was more worried about getting rights for people than her “hotness.”
      Lucille Ball. She changed her look from a glamorous B-film star to that of an average-looking comedian and became not only a star but a force in the industry.
      Martha Stewart. Broke the law. Went to prison. Paid her debt, came out unashamed and rebuilt her brand. And a friend of Snoop Dogg.
      Jane Goodall. Do we even know what she looks like? We just know how much her work matters.

      I’d add to this list a friend who walked her kids across Cambodia to safety in a Laotian refugee camp, and who came to the US unable to speak English, and started a business to support her family. She’s a great-grandmother, and beautiful all through.

      What makes a woman beautiful as she ages is who she has become through the struggles and challenges of life. “Hotness” is a low-level standard for women.

      • LAJ, I couldn’t love this comment enough. I’m going to save a screenshot for when I’m feeling like shit.

        Thank you for this. It’s just … beautiful.

    • “And I feel blessed that I no longer have a partner that I have to carefully be “on my hot game” for 24-7.”

      Oh god, YES. It was exhausting. My ex said I was getting “fat” and was no longer attractive (I was 135 lb). When I eventually lost a ton of weight (from all the stress, anxiety, and depression) and was a dangerous 96 lb he said I was “too skinny” and “didn’t look good” and was angry because he didn’t want people to notice (we were SEPARATED at the time).

      So apparently I had like, a 10-lb window where I was an acceptable weight.

      He got angry when I, post partum, nursing, and recovering from a terrible birth injury, wore yoga pants and a sweatshirt instead of a mini skirt and a thong.

      It is SO NICE to just be comfortable. And even when I want to look nice, I can wear whet *I* feel nice in, which is generally not the super-short, super-tight things he wanted me to wear.

      I watched OW go from wearing flowy, kind of boho clothes, to honestly looking like a $10 hooker, and thanked my stars that I didn’t have to do that anymore.

      • It’s so arbitrary. FW in my case was a secret chubby chaser and said I was too thin. He made me feel disgusting when he was cheating which ironically led to stress-induced weight loss. From the pictures taken at that time I was fine just before the cheating began but by the end I really was a bag of bones. Fuck these assholes.

    • Fourleaf – Since this was such a recent event (in spite of the 10 years of weekend parenting), maybe your daughter was simply relieved at any positive feedback. Maybe she was worried that her friends thought her dad was a creep or wondered why they weren’t ever included in weekend activities. Just a guess and that’s graciously giving your daughter the benefit of the doubt.

  • S, You don’t look like a whore and that is everything. That whore will age and still be a whore. You will age and will maintain your non whore status. Try not to care what some whore spawn said about your appearance. You know you are the far superior woman. Better to look your age than be a whore. So tie on that babushka and fill your pockets with sunflower seeds. Tell your daughter to pay that whore spawn No Never Mind. Her opinion is for shit.

    As far as the gold digger comments, pass me a shovel. Your contribution to your marriage comes with a price, too bad so sad if that whore doesn’t like it. I frequently play Ye’s hit “ Gold Digger” to amuse my adult children. They like it when I pull up blasting that song.

    I wonder if your daughter might benefit from reading these comments. She might get a better picture of just how mighty you are!

    • Age is relative to “profession.” Sex workers are generally written off as geriatric after 23. If you’re not in that arena, it’s hard to understand the panic. Part of it is internalizing the perversions of johns and it’s not a nice perspective in which to see oneself.

      Though the AP in my situation wasn’t officially a sex worker, she had some obvious economic motives. She’s part of the student loan debt generation that are trying to boost inadequate incomes with official or unofficial sugaring in the hopes their lives will more resemble Instagram fantasies. FW pretended to be rich while putting us in debt and I suspect the AP fell into the trap of a lot of sugar babies which is that they get tired of the gyrations and end up settling on one target. She was kind of a third string candidate because FW so clearly didn’t have mansions or a collection of luxury imports. But she likely had to lower her sights as she aged out of the 18-23 porn fantasy realm.

      So I thought it was ickily interesting that the AP went into several rants about reverse ageism on professional platforms for her industry. I admit to sleuthing– not my proudest moment– but what I came across sort of demythologized the whole shit show and readjusted my perspective. I felt more myself again because I actually felt sad for the AP and sad about the politics of it rather than mortally threatened. I suspected her reverse ageism obsession was part of her frantic narrative about why FW dumped her after D-Day (and then dragged me through pointless wreckonciliation for months, oy). She was pushing thirty and still clinging to this idea that she was a budding nymph to the point of absurdly trying to cue others to to commend her on her youth. She wasn’t running for president in which being 29 might be a handicap. It was awkward and cringey and I can imagine her colleagues were thinking “Yikes.”

      Meanwhile I’m fourteen years older and didn’t feel “old” because of how I’d spent those years. I wouldn’t trade perspectives or lives.

  • I’m taking this topic a little sideways. When I read “ When the OW’s Kid Insults You” as a title, I thought it would be that the kid insults who you are based on what the child heard from her OW mom and FW. THAT bristled me. I keep having images in my head that when the kids are all over 18, I’ll share my truth even with HER kids (I won’t!! Don’t worry! But it’s fantasy for sure)

    But a rude ageist comment by an ignorant kid? Please don’t take that personally. Kids say stupid shit that’s offensive no matter who they are. Some are even intentional and malicious. And you know that her OW mom won’t be smart enough to correct her and teach her better. So that poor kid is going to learn the hard way, most likely.

  • I know a woman whose father left her (and her sibs) when they were little and ran off with OW. The dad and OW had a baby who was raised with the Cheaters’ narrative.

    The child of the affair-couple grew to her late teens and one day said to the lady I knew (Child of the betrayed marriage):

    “My dad isnt a dead-beat dad, you were dead-beat kids”…yes, this grown woman was told that her father was justified in leaving because her 8 year old self was inadequate.

    God only knows what version of crazy is spoken in these homes that were built on lies and the kids may not know any better…they may never. (I grew up with my alcoholic mothers narrative and it took to my mid 20s to shed some of the stupid ideas she had filled my head with).

    In the mean time, yes…be a badass grandma even you aren’t an actual grandma yet. I weild some badassery in my spheres of influence, trust me.

    I am a grandma and I recently let my hair grow its natural grey and I LOVE it…sans dye, it is soft and the color of lightening, BAM.

    I went to stepdaughters college graduation knowing that husbands XW would likely have a ball making fun of my hair. Whatever …I dont respect her opinion on ANYTHING which includes her opinion of me.

    • My older daughter told me that her dad is now teaching a class at his church to single dads. It’s a class on how to be a good dad even after divorce. I was laughing at the absurdity of it but stopped when I realized how hurt she herself was.

      • Jesus Cheaters is another level of disordered. My “Christian” cheater actually took both of our middle schooled aged kids to a class at church about saving yourself for marriage. He did this after devaluing and discarding me for the OW. But I knew it at the time, it was all for image management at church. He wanted everyone at church to think he was this great Christian dad. He ramped up his volunteering, even volunteering for things that I would have normally volunteered for! All image management! God knows that truth about everything, and that’s all that matter to me now!

        • Jesus Cheaters! My cheater was committing adultery with the church maintenance guy. She was a lector and Eucharistic minister. She was President of the Women’s guild and reading “Calling Jesus” all while cheating on me. Now she is at a different Catholic Church. Worse her church friends have justified her cheating. I don’t blame Jesus I just feel that at times the lessons are overlooked

          • Yep! It’s all image management! So, when the sh*t hits the fan, the church community sees all the “good works” and can’t see the true character. Plus, churches are always hard-up for volunteers, so no doubt they didn’t want to lose out on someone who helped out so much. My adulterer was a “commander” in our churches boy’s youth group. The people in charge had no problem with what he did to me and our children. No doubt he’s still a “commander” today and supposedly a role model for young boys. I don’t think so!!! A pathological lying, serial adulterer, porn masturbater, stripper loving, wife abandoner is not a good role model for anyone! But that church can have him! I’m with you. They read the Bible and listen to the homilies, but fail to apply the lessons to their own lives. It’s all about how they look on the outside, but Jesus calls the white-washed tombs!

          • Years ago, when I spoke with priests about my husband’s infidelity & how I struggled to be a good wife, some of the priests seemed more interested in him. The conversation turned to “Does he still go to mass? Does he go to confession? Would he come see me?” I felt ignored, belittled, and terribly uncared for. I chalked it up to the priest really wanting to save souls. My soul was “saved,” but my then husband should be sought after to “return him to the fold.”

            And yet I was the one sitting in front of them, clearly in pain and anguish. Priests do not have counseling skills!

            I expect at any Christian church they will welcome sinners back. And if they are young, charismatic, good looking men or women they’ll have them make a video series about their conversion.

            • UpAndOut, priests are like a box of chocolate; you never know what you’re gonna get! I’ve read here at CN about quite a few chumps had good counseling from priests. My sisters pastor gave her good counsel when she asked him for help on how to support me through my husband all-of-a-sudden wanting a divorce after I caught him out on a date with a newly divorced whore. He said, “This is not the first time he’s cheated. Run!” I however had horrible counseling sessions with my pastor (now ex pastor). He did his best to try to “understand” my former husband and why he needed to see women behind my back. He went so far to say to me in front of my husband, “Snake(not his real name) grew up surrounded by women. He’s more comfortable with women, so that’s why he has to be friends with so many women.” What a load of sh*t!! The pastor took great pleasure trying to see where I was lacking in the marriage even though I was a GREAT wife and mom. After the husband said he wanted a divorce due to my “trust issues”. The pastor said I needed to forgive immediately so that I didn’t get “bitter”. Along with my XH, that pastor broke me down even more, so I totally get where you are coming from, and I’m so sorry that happened to you too. 🙁 I guarantee if either of us walked into Divorce Minister’s office, we would have been understood and supported.

              And I agree that the charming sinner would be welcomed into the church and their adultery story would be turned into “their testimony/conversion story” and everyone would clap and pat them on the back. While the chump doesn’t get any support at all from the church they supported financially, and with their time and talents.

            • Priests do not have counseling skills, and sometimes they don’t have ethics or morals, either.

              My second cheater’s “good friend,” Father Steve (who I had driven 200 miles to meet, and spend time with) insisted that we meet at a gay bar in Chicago. That my Cheater knew and liked the bar should perhaps have been a red flag. Under the guise of “pre-marital counseling,” he told us that we, because we were both divorced, were committing adultery every time we had sex, because we were cheating on our exes. On the other hand, having sex with someone of the same gender would not be cheating because it wasn’t actually sex. It wasn’t actually sex because there’s no possibility of procreation.

              That one zinged my bullshit detector, and I asked the priest, “So the fact that I am unable to have children means we aren’t actually having sex, and so therefore we aren’t committing adultery? Also, isn’t divorce OK with Jesus if your partner is cheating on you? My ex- slept with dozens of women, and impregnated at least one of them. So how am I committing adultery against him?”

              He AND cheater told me I was disrespecting their religion.

              I married him anyway, and about a year or two in, I started getting vibes that he was cheating. I was looking for other women, didn’t get even a whiff of confirmation.

              My second cheater was cheating with the priest.

              • So sorry this happened to you. I am not surprised anymore by who cheats. It’s the hypocrisy that’s worse.

    • Right? And this little girl is an unwitting tool of the patriarchy. Imagine what women as a group could accomplish if we weren’t worried (be cause of societal conditioning) about meeting an impossible beauty standard.

    • Ageism is alive and well. A guy I just started dating( 6 years younger and a head full of lovely dark hair) said he hesitated because he thought at “my age” I wouldn’t want to do anything( I’m. 61). I laughed at that because I do more than most 50 year olds. I do have to call him on the back handed compliments of “ you look great for your age”. I’m going to tell him drop the “ for your age”. I look great or don’t say anything.

      • The only response to “You look great for your age” in my book is “You give good compliments for your IQ” 😂

      • watch out newlady, these comments sound a lot like manipulation (“at your age, you wouldn’t want to do anything” will unconsciouly make you want to prove to him the opposite) and negging “you look good for your age”. It frankly all sounds like negging. He’s only 6 years younger. what’s the difference between 61 and 55? I feel uneasy

  • S, this is just another shit sandwich served up through a kid who probably is doing the FWs bidding. He may have a”hot” new girlfriend but looks fade and character does not change unless a lot of work is done. These FWs and their partners are essentially lazy and will not go through any effort to change. Aging is inevitable and that is just a part of life. Sure they can insult your looks and whatever and they will do this to try to bring you down but you have something that they will never have which is good character, morals and integrity.
    You left an abuser and you are MIGHTY! They are just two people with no character and they deserve each other. You may look grandmotherly but in the end what counts is you have more value because you live an honest and authentic life. Take the high road and be the best you that you can be. Remember you have gained a life!
    I am sure most of have heard about all of our flaws from the FWs but they are dishonest and deceitful cheaters so who cares what they think. We are better than they are based on the fact that we did not cheat.

  • S,
    You’re out! Be glad and happy that you got out before he did kill you. Abuse is abuse and it comes in many forms. Cheating is abuse, threatening to kill you is abuse, belittling you is abuse….all of it is abuse! And, all of it takes a toll on you, mentally and physically. When I look back on my pictures 10 years ago, I look much older than I do now (wrinkles, stress, puffy face, dull hair,etc.). Now, I’m told all the time I look like I’m 10-20 years younger. The point is, fuck your ex, the new girl and the naive kid. Focus on you and be a badass *granny*….then when you least expect it, you will look in the mirror one day and realize, you don’t look like a granny anymore bc the stress and BS is gone. I promise you, at that moment you will be glowing inside and out, you will feel and look better than you ever did when you were married to that FW, and you will love yourself more than you ever remember loving yourself bc you did it for YOU and YOUR babies. Big Hugs Sista! You’ve got this.

  • I had my daughter when I was 43.5 years old. I got pregnant the old fashioned way, with no medical intervention other than surgery to remove fibroids. I think I was the oldest person on the maternity ward. I had to have a C-section and my doctor was in her early 30’s. I was asked on occasion if I was my daughter’s grandmother. Technically I could be, so I wasn’t bothered by the inquiry.

    It does bother me that looking pregnant or being a grandmother or getting old are used as derogatory terms by some. I felt beautiful when I was pregnant. Getting old is the direction we are all headed in, if we have the privilege of a long life, and being a grandmother is a similar privilege.

    It’s all about perspective, and with all the chronic diseases I have to manage, I was lucky to get pregnant, and will be fortunate to be old, and because of how old I was when I had my daughter, I may never get to be a grandmother.

    It’s a recipe for despair to compare myself now to my younger self. And I certainly
    do not want to be legally bound to a shallow man who hasn’t an ounce of loyalty in him, to whom the packaging is all important and lack of character and scruples inconsequential. (Like him….hmmmmm)

    If there is ever again a partner in my life, I would want a partner like a friend of mine had, a man who told her she didn’t need to bother with wigs after chemotherapy because she was just beautiful without her hair.

  • What disturbs me is that your children have to associate with them. Ugh. But the worm turns sometimes. My son went on a nice trip to Europe with ex fw and the Ow and her kids and grand kids who were all adults. They all had a ‘great’ time and I was slightly glad my kid got that opportunity. So when he gets home, my son tells me all about the trip and then tells his brother how all her kids who are in their late 20s-mid thirties have all been divorced, at least once and had kids by different men. On both sides of our family, my and ex was the only divorce. Same with my family. So even though my son had divorced he thought we were odd. He never met a family where divorce was routine. Like switching out toothbrushes. The Ow was divorced three or four times and each kid had a diff father. Maybe I’m snobby. But I didn’t want my kids thinking that was normal. I’m glad they rarely associated after that trip.

    • 3 weeks after my daughter turned 18, XW bought her a ticket to Italy so XW, daughter and AP could have a fabulous Christmas and AP could meet XW’s family. New Year’s in Venice, etc. It sounds great, but when daughter returned she told me she hated it: XW and AP only had eyes for each other and ignored her the whole time.

      They’re still fuckwits even when they’re in Europe.

  • Dear S,

    I’m more like you than some of the other Chumps on here. My ex spent a lot more time abusing me than cheating on me. It was such a relief to realize that it was ALL abuse, and I deserve much better than that.

    Don’t let a childish remark by the spawn of a bad person bother you. The kid was probably repeating what she heard from her mom. And she’s probably watched her mom do all the things to fight off looking older. The child is to be pitied. Her mom is making a lot of bad choices.

    On the other hand, you are a badass. You have gotten away from your abuser and set yourself free.

  • And let me be clear, like most everyone else, I want to be comfortable in my skin and look my best. But attaching that goal to youth makes it Mission Impossible. A winning strategy, IMHO, is, just for today, to do my best to love (verb) and care for myself.

    (Check out Iris Apfel’s Instagram. One of my fashion and style heroines).

    I need to do for myself what I wanted him to do, now more than ever. I need to treat myself how I wanted him to treat me. These days I am thinking about how I have been more loyal to other people than I have been to myself.

    I needed assistance and support to get away from him. I couldn’t see the writing on the wall because my nose was right up against it. Finding out about his double life was like getting hit in the face with a bag of nickels, the wake-up call that was necessary to shatter the illusion of
    Mr. Fake Nice Guy that I was seeing.
    And still I was willing to consider reconciling. Extreme severe mind-bending pain has a way of making me consider the ridiculous.

    For me, recovery from infidelity requires an Olympic level ability to consider the source, an absolutely necessary skill to practice often for mastery.

  • S,

    The flip side to that comment is what regularly happens when my 17 year old daughter goes somewhere with my ex and his new wife “and what can I get for your daughters?’ Lol, the old man and his daughters. Don’t worry about normal aging, the men do it too. Give Schmoopie a few years of his abuse and she’ll gray a little too.

    But seriously, I hear you. It hurts a lot to feel devalued by not only FW but society in general as we age. I have no answers as I struggle to remember my value in a world that isn’t as outraged as chump nation that my ex left me for someone half our age. I keep giving too much to prove my worth, but now at least it’s to people who need or deserve my help, not an entitled a**hole who can abandon his family without looking back. I’m certain I’ll be giving people sunflower seeds, at least in my mind, for years after todays post. 🙂

  • I had my first and only child after the age of forty, so the gramma thing came up now and then. My son and I just laughed.

  • Considering the fact that one half of all marriages end in divorce, it could be thought of as “normal”. No shame in divorce. Never ever thought I’d be getting divorced, but cheating and lying were not in the vows I heard. He isn’t even attracted to women, I was just a decoy for his hidden agenda. Emotional abuse can lead directly to mental heath issues like depression and anxiety, especially in vulnerable, empathetic humans. Intuitively, most of us feel a schism between what is being said and what our gut is feeling. It’s heartless, cruel behavior. He is forever denied access to my presence. I would rather adjust my life to his absence than adjust my boundaries to accommodate his disrespect.

    • “He is forever denied access to my presence.” Well said.
      Sometimes no contact is more powerful than we realize. Whenever he’s hospitalized, he asks his flying monkeys and even hospital staff to try to get me to visit. I don’t know or care if it’s image management or a desire for me to shore up his self-esteem. Maybe he has schmoopies there and wants me to show up and see them. I don’t know, and I don’t respond. My absence speaks volumes.

    • ” I would rather adjust my life to his absence than adjust my boundaries to accommodate his disrespect”.

      That was my decision, too. At the beginning I was just upset because he hadn’t given me a choice. It’s interesting how perspective changes with no contact.

  • Truly, you have to wear Teflon with some people (including children). Live in your own truth, knowing that who you are inside is what people will remember you for. And aging is NORMAL.

    I had a friend come by yesterday for encouragement because she’s in the midst of an escalating divorce. And that’s what I told her. Figure out which ones are truly your people and who feeds your soul, and let the rest just slide off of you into the dust. There will be a lot of that, sad to say.

    And her STBX railed about her aging as well. As if he wasn’t getting older too? I asked if he had a porn problem. Yes, she said. So he thinks that you should be a young porn star in the bedroom? Yes, she said. Man, talk about living in denial…I don’t advocate throwing gasoline on the fire during the divorce, but good luck with trying to find a porn star woman that is going to stick around long-term to take care of him in old age. Let him go to do whatever with whomever.

    You are so much better than this.

    • I am sure he would be happy to pay a porn star for sex and to take care of him in old age. Called his “new wife.” In return she can go out with her boyfriend on the side and get his money when he croaks. You see this all the time. Some men are happy to pay for love. They dont want anything more. I friend of mine married a man who’s father was poisoned by his mistress and her boyfriend. She inherited alot of assests, (different country). He got what he paid for.

      • Yes, that scenario is another possibility. It’s still a sick dance of two people using each other though.

        Give me my sweet house with trees behind it, long walks with my dog, our adult kids who want nothing to do with him, and my wonderful friends. No drama there.

  • “Those voices are an occupying force in your head. Hand them some sunflower seeds and tell them to die.”

    This is going up in multiple places in my house where I can see it, because not only do I have too much of a tendency to second-guess myself, over the years I have saved a number of articles about kick-ass older women for inspiration (e.g., older Japanese women on Okinawa protesting the expansion of US military bases on their island). Badass Sunflower Babushka is now among them.

    Oh, and #FuckPutin.

  • “My” OW is 20 years younger than me.
    She’s so “hip” 🤮
    The flip side to this, is that my XH looks like her father. I mean literally- He bears an uncanny resemblance to girlfriends dead father.
    He looks like a fool.
    Ive let my hair grow out too, and I feel very authentic and happy.
    These old guys with their youngsters look like fools.

      • Yes, that’s true! And many other issues, too!
        To the OP :
        Remember that there are times when your X and the young “lady” will be out to dinner, and the waiter will say:
        “And what will your daughter be having?”
        Lol.
        Dignity is its own reward.

  • For the OP, kids cannot tell age properly.
    I always ask my class of kindergartners to have a guess how old I am in their opinion. I had everything between 80 and 150 years old. (I am in my 50s). It always makes me smile.

    • So true, when my son was about 10/11 I had asked him about someone’s age, and I asked how old he/she was. He answered, I don’t know, not old like you. I was only 29/30 and looked younger. I about died laughing. I can’t remember the exact situation but it was funny.

      Also, at my age now I look at someone in their early 20s and I swear they look like middle schoolers. So many times it goes both ways. Once they get past the early 40s I am pretty good at telling age, but before that, not so much.

    • My son once asked me, “Mom, what was it like when you were a kid and there was no electricity?” Lol. He wasn’t being snarky, he was just a little kid who didn’t have a good working knowledge of age and history.

    • On my 40th birthday, I was asked if I wanted the “senior discount.” Because there was a long line at the checkout and I was caught totally off guard, I just accepted the discount and went to my car on the verge of tears! At the time, I had blond hair with many streaks of grey and was often asked if I colored my hair to get it that way (I didn’t). I was in my 30’s when I the grey started and have been white for as long as I can remember.

      A classmate of my son once asked him why he was always with his “grandmother”!

      I totally get the fact that kids are a poor judge of age!

      At one point FW even asked me to color my hair – because it made HIM look older!

      I love my white hair!

  • I think this remark probably stung just a little more because it came from AP’s child — if it had just come from some random child, it might have been awkward, but not hurtful in the same way.

    It does sound to me like this particular fuckwit traded his loyal wife in for a younger model — and to a child, if you’re old enough to be a grandmother, then your ex-fuckwit is old enough to be her grandfather. So that’s going to be a lot for this child to absorb …

    Why doesn’t her mother marry someone who’s the right age to be a father?

  • I had my last child at 43 and have already got the grandma thing once. It bothered me for a few days and then – whatever. It’s going to happen to me more and more. My mom is 82 and works almost full time and is strong beautiful and vibrant – and a grandma. Bring it on. That’s my example! (And my STBXs GF is young enough to be his child. But also dumb as a box of rocks and as Barbie-ish as ever. They are embarrassing together! Watch The you tube clip of SNL’s “Meet Your Second Wife”! Hilarious!

    • My grandmother had her last child at 48 and used to get the same assumption from people. I had 2 aunts born after my mother married and had me.

      When my mom and I were out in public with my grandmother and aunts, people assumed we were all my mom’s kids! My grandma just shrugged it off.

      This was back in the 60s when most people married and had children much younger.

  • Dear S.,

    You are a hero. You are modeling mightyness to your offspring. You LEFT an ABUSER. You are telling your offspring that abuse is not ok, that you & she have worth. Because of your actions, your daughter has the chance to know her worth & not accept abuse.

    If you focus on your heroism & good example, there’s little space for entertaining criticism. Be proud of your strong parenting. Nothing is more valuable than what you give your daughter.

    Keep healing & kicking ass 💚

  • A student told me the other day that I remind him of his grandmother. Now, I’m 70 and that was still a shock because of course in my mind I’m still 30 and a babe. I take that as a compliment, though, because a) next to his mom, his grandmother is his favorite person; and b) they did an awesome job of raising him in a single-parent home. If I’m up there with the women who have made him what he is…wow. That’s a big deal. We see youth as some very positive thing, but as I look back on my 20s, I was clueless. I damaged myself and others (unintentionally, but still) in many ways. I’m just a better person at 70–more secure, happier, more empathetic and patient. I have stronger values and I hold myself to a higher standard. So get your metrics in order. Know your worth and trust that as the years go on, you will continue to grow until you are yourself a grandmother passing wisdom down the generations.

    And consider this: If New Girl (what a telling name) had a child at a young age (say, 20) and she followed her mother in that pattern, her own grandmother might be…45 or 50, depending on the age of the child. That’s not old. It’s just not “trying to look young/hot for my abusive BF.”

    One lesson here is stay away from New Girl and her kids. No good comes from contact. The other lesson is that you aren’t Laci Peterson or any of the other women who have been murdered by intimate partners. You have your life. Your kids have their mom. That’s what matters.

  • FW pointed out to our marriage counselor that he had known the OW longer than me. We had been together 30 years, she was his best friend’s wife. It’s not about age, it’s about character.

  • OW certainly got a prize…..a scumbag who cheats, threatens to kill his wife, and breaks chairs.

    #winningaloser

    When I was in 5th grade the 8th graders seemed really old, so I wouldn’t worry about the age thing.

    Be glad you’re rid of this piece of shit.

  • Yeah so I guess I’m not as young as I was in my 20’s. But I am happier, more content, successful, have more satisfying sex, I feel attractive. I would never have wanted to date an old dude, like a 50 year old man, who may be married or divorced with kids in my 20 or 30’s. Seems pathetic. I had to beat men off with a stick at that age, turned down alot of great men in hindsight. You dont need a man to make you feel mighty. There are alot of hot older mom’s. MILFS are in right now. Look at Elizabeth Hurley, Salma Hyek, Christy Brinkley, ect. Most women half their age dont look that good. And talk about character. Once you are in a happier place you wont care.

  • The girl has likely internalized the same shallow belief system as her mother. She’s also a victim, because I consider modeling shitty values to your kids emotional abuse.

    Fuck all this pressure on women to look young forever. Fuck the fillers, the botox, the cosmetic surgery, the make-up, the hooker heels and the whole mentality that hoes behind wanting to appeal to the male gaze. Fuck the male gaze and any male who gazes at us that way. I often feel like the Elephant Man trying to remind everybody that we are human beings. We are not sex robots or inanimate sex dolls. We think and feel and our thoughts and feelings matter. Sadly, often the people I have to remind are women. Some are the kind whose ridiculous defense is to insist they do all these things to “empower” themselves, others are so brainwashed they don’t even know what I’m talking about. They can’t make the connection. What a shitty world. Go Ukranian Grandma!

    P.S. Please donate to help the people of the Ukraine. In some countries the governments are matching private donations. Donate through those countries if you can. Chumps are good people and therefore will naturally despise a fascist piece of shit like Putin.
    Okay, I broke the rule about not talking about politics, but for a good cause. I’m not having a good day, not because of FW, but from thinking about all this shittiness. I’ll shut up now and go cuddle my dog.

  • Oh, S, I feel for you. I’ve been asked by people I’ve worked with whether my children are my grandkids. I had my son at 40 and my daughter at 43. I AM older than most of the moms of my kids’ friends. At first it stung but then I looked at it differently realizing that I had the blessings of a stable life, a good job and no financial worries that a younger parent might have. As someone wrote earlier, it was a different culture/different demographic where people are less likely to have children at an older age.

    Whether the OW’s daughter was coached, or merely asked a childlike question (filters off), it doesn’t matter. You are mighty in leaving your ex. He was an abusive jerk. Threatening you and then breaking furniture is abuse. Yuck. I’m glad you escaped.

  • Everyone here is MIGHTY!

    I am sure it stung to hear that but I would not take it seriously. Kids are cute and sweet but pretty fucking psychotic too. There was a social media thread I read about times people’s kids or kids they knew saying something extraordinary inappropriate then going about their day like nothing happened. Clearly take them seriously when warranted but this is not one of those times. That kid probably picked her nose and ate it before commenting on your age. Pay that booger eater no attention!

  • I have another wonderful Ukrainian babushka story I just heard. In Kiev an old lady saw a Russian drone outside her window and unleashed a can of whoop-ass on it with a jar of home canned pickled tomatoes. She knocked it out of the sky and down to the ground. She then ran down stairs and stomped it into metallic dust. You GO girl!

    As a grandma myself, I can only aspire to as badass as she is.

  • Most of us are taught to allow abuse which isn’t physical. Most of us are manipulated until we are submissive beyond reason by our abusers and allow even physical abuse. That you took the threat of harm and did something – leaving- is amazing. Leaving an abuser- no matter the why- is mighty. Don’t downplay that.

  • I’ve been very overweight and have gotten rude comments. I’ve been slim and cute. I’ve gotten rude comments. It’s painful but some people take pleasure in cutting you down.

    This kid will have a hard time in life if she doesn’t straighten out. Look what happened to her mom!

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