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‘Why Won’t She Get Over It?’

Here’s a bit of etiquette the New York Times was asked to weigh in on this week: “I Cheated on My Wife, Why Won’t She Get Over It?”

Hey, he got drunk at a conference and fell into a vagina. It happens.

The nitwit writes:

My wife and I have been married for eight years. We’re in our 30s and have two children. I love her; she’s my best friend. Unfortunately, I made a big mistake: I got drunk at a conference last month and slept with another woman. I swear it was a one-time thing and meant nothing to me! When I got home, I decided the right thing to do was to tell my wife what had happened, apologize and promise it would never happen again. I knew there might be fallout, but I had no idea she would be so upset. She has practically stopped talking to me and threatened to throw me out. I’ve apologized so many times. This is killing me! What more can I do?


The columnist, Philip Galanes, gave rather breezy advice that Husband might want to improve his apologies and seek therapy.

But really, the people to ask WHY WON’T YOU GET OVER IT are this chump collective you find here. So, that’s the Friday Challenge, CN. Why won’t she get over it?

Husband needs a clue. Extra points if you couch your language as etiquette. One does not put the salad fork next to one’s wandering dick. Always use a napkin. Etc.

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  • Since when my fw left he had no intention of coming back to our marriage, but to marry the whore; I did’t really get the “why can’t you get over it”.

    However, when I called him and told him he needed to file for D, so we could separate our finances he did use the “I hope when all this is over we can be friends”. Which to me is saying the same thing.

    You know those many years of me stealing from you, lying to you, humiliating you, and the last years of screaming and cussing you non stop: That’s over, so lets be friends.

    • I got the same, couched as “I hope when we get past the hard part [he meant the divorce], we can be friends.” And I felt and feel the same as you. After the way he acted, the way he treated me, and the things he said to me that revealed the way he thought about me, why on earth would I want to be friends? I know why HE wanted to be friends (damage control, endorsement of false self-serving narrative, continuing sex), but I had/have ZERO reasons to want to be friends.

    • This “let’s be friends” is a set up.
      Of course, that sort of betrayal and disrespect is not grounds for a continuing “friendship” LOL- and once you “DON’T want to be friends”- he then runs with “I want to be friends, but Susie Lee HATES me”. See- you’re such a bitch! And again- IT WASNT WHAT I DID ITS HOW YOU ARE REACTING TO IT. DEFLECT! Smear campaign! Easy to predict, hard to live with (been there/done that/got the PTSD!)

      • Me and my two female coworkers had this discussion today at work…why are women always considered “overreacting” or “hysterical” or “crazy” when they find out they’ve been lied to and cheated on by their significant other…isn’t that a NORMAL reaction to the facts? Why do women always get described as crazy for being hurt and betrayed and financially destroyed? Isn’t crazy reasonable in that instance????

        My husband threatened me with a protection order when I reacted crying and upset to his leaving me after 30 years together for his 29 year old coworker. Did I ever threaten him? NO! Was I able to see him? NO! He was 1800 miles away. But he could not stand my painful emails….so he threatened me with lawful action, instead, to control me.

        Yes, of course it’s MY fault that you treated me like sh*t and I’m upset about it. God forbid that I blamed you!

        On the opposite spectrum, he suggested that maybe we could still go to concerts together??? Seriously?! You want to go to concerts with the woman you faked love to and want a protection order against?! Complete brain blender!!!

        • You know what, Duped, I think there’s still, even in 2022, an attitude that women should expect men to fool around and not take it too seriously if they do. They vilify the woman who reacts *normally* to the situation because the abnormal reaction the expect doesn’t unnerve people and doesn’t cause them to question their stupid beliefs. Beliefs like; “men need variety” and “it takes two to break a marriage, she must have done something.”

        • I agree with this observation 100%

          Amongst the few male chumps I have known, what I have found in common with their experience is that their cheating spouse accuses them of being controlling and abusive. Whenever they react painfully, it’s twisted into aggressive action that the cheater feels threatened by.

    • My response to the let’s be friends line was: “I don’t have or want any friends that treat me like shit”. He looked shocked and stricken and never brought it up again.

      • Same, although at the time, we were speaking in abstractions during a wreckonciliation conversation… He was answering a question about what did he expect things might be like if we separated and divorced. He answered that he expected or hoped that we would continue to be friends— if it came to that.

        I replied without skipping a beat, “I wouldn’t be friends with someone who did what you have done.“ I wasn’t even trying to be mean or angry… I was just telling him the factual truth so that he could make informed decisions. And that is exactly how it has turned out… We are not friends. F that a-hole.

        • Image management…”I tried to be friends but she didn’t want to be.” That’s the line they feed to those who ask if they are still in contact with their former spouse. They have NO intentions on being friends ever again. It’s all BS.

      • I outright told my ex wife that because we didn’t have kids, if we didn’t get through this, we never needed to see each other again. She replied that it didn’t have to be that way, and I said that it would be.
        I was right. 🙂

    • There is the story of the turtle and the scorpion, escaping the fire and arriving at a river to cross. Scorpion asks the turtle to hitch a ride over on his back. Turtle responds with fear of being killed by the venomous creature. The scorpion assures that turtle that he would never hurt him as he would be so grateful for having his life saved. When the turtle reaches the other side with the scorpion on his back, he is immediately stung. With his dying breathe, the turtle asks the scorpion why he chose to sting him after saving him. The scorpion shrugs and answers that he is a scorpion, and it’s just in his nature.

      That is why you cannot be friends with a cheater who has never really expressed sincere contrition and done the work.

  • Imma say if hubs drinks so much his inhibitions are lowered to the point that he has no restraint, [problem #2] and if without restraint, he naturally stabs the nearest meat with his fork like a barbarian [problem #1], that no amount of clue-giving will address the situation. I mean, we can answer the rhetorical question, but clues don’t get through to barbarians and stabbers-of-adjacent-meats.

    • “I was drunk” isn’t an excuse, either. In “Why does he do that?”, Bancroft noted that abusers admitted that they would plan their abuse in advance. They’d be frustrated about something and want to feel powerful, so they’d get off work, stop off to have a few drinks to “lubricate” their plans, then go beat up their wives and/or kids. But even when drunk, supposedly out of control, there were lines they didn’t cross – nothing broken that would lead to a hospital visit and the cops being called, nothing visible that couldn’t be explained away or hidden, keep it quiet so the neighbors don’t interfere.

      They used the alcohol to shift blame away from themselves. The sort of person who enjoys hitting his wife is a monster, so it must be the alcohol’s fault.

      I have zero doubt that this drunken conference encounter was planned in advance, maybe even someone he’d flirted with.

      • So true, 2GC. My FW tried the “but I wuz drunk” excuse. Later he stupidly conceded he’d been aware for months that she was interested and that they would have an opportunity while at a conference together. Then, when they were there, they went out drinking together.
        When confronted with this inconsistency, he still insisted he hadn’t planned it. I guess you need blueprints showing tab a going into slot b (small tab and huge slot in this case) in order for it to be a plan, according to cheaters.

        I’m sure that’s the case for today’s cheater as well. It’s almost never a spur of the moment decision with no flirting or signs of interest shown beforehand.

      • FW wouldn’t be honest in terms of disclosure, but was so proud of himself, he couldn’t stop talking about the sex.

        E.g. all the times he had sex with the AP were “beautiful because it was natural and unplanned.” They’d go spend a day at the spa, then go for an ice-cream and coffee, then one would invite the other home for dinner. They’d open a *few* bottles of wine, drink and engage in deep, meaningful, emotional talk. At some point, she said to him, I have to get a shower, do you want to join. Then a “platonic massage” follows. Then sex. All the way up to sex, it was “natural and unplanned.” In his words, it was “amazing to give an attractive woman a full-body massage, including massaging her genitals, and not feel sexual.” ????

        Then to not sound like a weakling, he added, “of course I was open to it, or it would never have happened.”

        I really wonder why I won’t get over it. ????

        • Chumpion, I can’t believe he would actually tell you all this. What an insensitive, uncaring, disrespectful fucking idiot. He should have taken videos so you could watch them together! What an absolute moron. I got some of this too but not as much graphic detail. You’re SO much better off without him. I think it’s so hard to get over as you said because it takes a long time to stop wondering what you did to deserve this shit until you realize he’s a fucked up problem child (for me anyway) with huge issues.

        • That’s so disgusting. I’m sorry. How cruel for him to brag to you about it. Also, he’s a fucking moron because that’s all very obviously planned.

        • After a breakup, the ex sent me a letter describing his sexual acts with another woman in vivid detail. He said it was after we broke up but it was probably before I left.

          To CL and the forum: why oh WHY do they send you a play by play? Is it bragging? Is it to show you what you’re missing?

          He broke up with me, and never admitted to any wrongdoing about anything ever. This letter was TMI x a million. Would love any insight you have on this.

          • Granny, I think they mostly do it to be cruel. They are hostile sexual degenerates, therefore they use their disgusting encounters with other degenerates as a form of one-upmanship and abuse. It’s kind of like how sexual harassers sometimes masturbate in front of their victims. It’s a “fuck you bitch, look how powerful me and my all important dick are” kind of thing.

        • Same my fw told me in details how ow showed him ways to have amazing sex. Then expected me to forget and forgive. It was seered in my brain.

    • OMG…a man who really believes that he loses all capacity to control himself he drinks is a man who recognizes a problem but doesn’t acknowledge it as a problem that needs fixing. He uses it as an excuse for bad behaviour to absolve himself of guilt and responsibility. If you know you can’t control yourself, there is still the problem that you choose to take the drink in the first place. What’s the excuse for that?

  • I HAVE to chime in on this particular one! With alllllll the things I’ve been guilted with over the past two years
    “You have someone here who loves you and would do anything for you”
    “I don’t want to keep hearing about it, I know what I did”
    “At some point there has to be some sort of… (then stumbles on his words) then follows with things like- understanding, forgiveness, reconciliation etc
    Meanwhile my step daughter has begun disrespecting me and my oldest daughters things. Stealing lying etc.
    what can we expect, right? It’s so sad we’ve been good to her. And guess who doesn’t know how or care to administer any consequences for his 14 year olds’ repeated crappy behavior. Yes I know the Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Everything comes in clearer and clearer
    Thanks for reading and hopefully not judging that it’s taken me so long even though I’ve had the sense all along

    • No judgment here, Shann. We’ve all been where you are.

      “You have someone here who loves you and would do anything for you”

      The gall of that guy!

      • That’s my FW too. I’m “throwing away our family” and he’s a “new man who will do anything for” me now that’s he’s in SAA. Well, forgive me for not jumping right on that after 30 years of cheating and lying! WTF?

  • Unfortunately, I made a big mistake: I got drunk and drove my car into a van, killing a couple of kids. I swear, it was a one time thing and I’ll never do it again. Meanwhile, the mother of those children won’t keep harping on me. She keeps threatening to get a lawyer and put me in jail. I’ve apologized so many times! What can I do?

    • The minimizing skills they use is mind blowing, truly mind blowing!

    • And now, every time I’m out of town on “business”, my wife pisses me off, my ego needs to be stroked, I get bored,……I get behind the wheel of that van again. In fact ….better be nice to me or I’ll go for a drive and whatever happens will be your fault because you weren’t nice enough. Cheaters suck.

  • She won’t get over it because idk ???? betrayal!!!
    In polite circles we don’t do that to our “best friend.”

  • When one breaks the marital trust, the marriage contract, one will never again be the shiny silver set of flatware. One will now be the dollar store equivalent of assorted knives & forks. Your betrayed spouse will now view you as a cheap faux set & treat you as such.

  • Oh. Dear. (Looks down patrician nose) Shall we utilize the “unfortunate choice” Brock Davies defense. Such a bright young future cannot be detailed by an error of relative unimportance. Do carry on.

    • My ex called it a “lapse of judgment”. Over many years? Really? Making plans to hook up months in advance? When was your judgment NOT lapsed?

      • They DO like underselling, don’t they?

        The Colonel’s latest appeal for me to take him back (on my birthday no less) was to call losing me a “blunder.”

        My reply: “Just think of your ‘blunder’ as a character-building plot twist.”

        • TC’sExC,

          You might point out to your Ex that a “blunder” is forgetting to take the beef out of the freezer when you have guests coming over to dinner.

          What he did is not a “blunder.”


  • Hmm . . . maybe he isn’t speaking his wife’s “love language.” Instead of “words of affirmation,” like “I was drunk.” He should try gifts. I think the complimentary mini-bottles of shampoo, conditioner, and lotion from the hotel room would have been a nice gesture. The STD exposure he brought back for her just wasn’t enough.

    • ???? I’ll be so happy if I never have to read or hear the word “love language”again!

      • Curlychump,

        I hate the term “love Language” with a passion as well …. but if someone really tried to press the point I would say that mine is probably not being cheated on, lied to, stolen from, gaslit (gaslighted?) and manipulated … but then I’m a little old fashioned in that respect.



      • Yes, my FW recommended I read a “Love Languages” book — when he was already months into his skankfest and plotting his exit. Yes, yes, that was the problem, I didn’t speak his love language.

        • Likely the AP told him they spoke the same love language or some stupid b.s. like that & that’s how he knew about it.

          • Without a doubt. Fun to be patronized, by proxy, by his tubby side piece…

  • “You need to get over it because . . .”

    — “. . . I’m the mother of your children.” (And I’m the father of yours. That didn’t stop you from doing exactly what you wanted. Go fuck yourself.)

    — “. . . I’m concerned about your mental health.” (The very best thing I can do for my mental health is to work this out in the way that makes the most sense for me, according to my timeline. Go fuck yourself.)

    — “. . . you’re not perfect either, you know.” (Agreed. Go fuck yourself.)

    • Yes yes yes, a thousand times yes!!!! The weaponising of words in order to come across as healthy….”I need to do this for myself and not just for us or our daughter” regarding AA and therapy. I have not been invited to meet his therapist nor have I seen amends in 5 years.

      • Wait. So is he maybe cheating with the therapist or with someone in AA? Or all of it is an excuse because he’s meeting with AP?

    • I always get “she’s the mother of your children” and my response is the same as yours “ and I’m the father of hers and it didn’t stop her from treating me like shit”

      • Oh I’m going to use this if you don’t mind Chumpman! I get the “he’s the father of your children” comment occasionally and need a good rejoinder…

      • Chumpman,

        The last time someone pulled that line on me I shut it down with “Yes …. but neither I nor our kids can remember the last time that she acted like it.”

        It seemed to do the trick.


    • UXworld, I got the same rhetoric, but the wife version. “if you really loved me, you would forgive me.”

      If YOU really loved ME you wouldn’t have thrust your wankerdoodle into randos while I was having miscarriages.

      My new “love language” is stand still so I can get a better shot at you…

      • @FWFree … So gonna use “Love Language” “Stand Still” …

        That was Hysterical!!

    • Nice! Goes from a defense to a concern to projection. Yup. That sounds like the recipe my FW uses. My inner monologue is usually screaming “fucking asshole!” Or “what the fuck” though. Lol

    • “— ‘. . . you’re not perfect either, you know.’ (Agreed. Go fuck yourself.)”

      Got this, too!

      Also said he wanted to remain friends and that he still loved me. “I think it’s possible to love two people at one,” said the clueless coward who has always displayed a shocking lack of self-awareness.

      According to him, that I am NC makes me a raving bitch, and is further proof of my “true colors.” Oh, and he added that, although what he did (that nearly 3-year little affair) was a “bad mistake” and “regrettable,” what the adult kids and I are doing to him (refusing contact) is…get this…WORSE. FW (who has found religion?) tells me that God will judge US more harshly as a result.

      And I have no doubt that his flying monkeys (ahem, his mom) agree that this NC business has gone on too long. I am the bad guy now. Funny how that happened.

      It’s all so infuriating.

      • Mine had purchased a book called, I think, “More Than One”, which justified polyamory. Whatever. I think it can only be polyamory if everybody involved is aware and in agreement PRIOR. Such BS. That book got burned with other “mementos” during my purge.

    • I think “Go fuck yourself” is elegant and meets the etiquette requirements of the occasion.

    • Cheater was also seriously concerned for my mental health.., said in a quiet, almost whisper…, for effect and to let me know just how concerned he is…

      So concerned he abandoned me for “something different.”
      Does the mental health community suggest abandoning your spouse when you’re seriously concerned for their mental health?
      That will surely help them snap out of it.

      • I accidentally overheard my EX, at a party at our house, tell a few friends “I’m concerned about her…” referring to me, because our youngest was soon to graduate high school, empty nest, etc. In fact I was looking forward to it and having some free time! What he was in fact doing was laying down a trap for me, knowing he was already in the affair and soon to leave us, which would probably cause me to ‘gasp’ react appropriately and say a few very unfavorable words about him once I found out the truth and possibly looking a bit unstable. It’s gaslighting the friends as well, manipulative preemptive image management, and absolutely intentional. It disturbed me enough to write about it my journal the very next day. There was not anything spontaneous about the marriage imploding. It was all planned to do as much damage as possible to me, while protecting his image. I cannot imagine what was said when I wasn’t around to overhear, but I assume it was plenty.

        “Go Fuck Yourself” is indeed a complete sentence.

    • And I almost forgot (somewhat related to the mental health response):

      ” . . . you’re only hurting yourself and your relationship with your daughters.” Love this one because it ticks so many boxes: rage, concern mixed with threat, triangulation, control.

      My relationship with my daughters is mine and mine alone to manage, and is doing just fine thank you. Go fuck yourself.

      • I got the preemptive accusations of bad parenting due to mental instability based on my reactions to his DARVO attacks during the affair… which involved preemptive accusations of bad parenting due to mental instability. After one of those, I fainted and hit my head on a bed post. Which gave him more fodder for accusations of bad parenting due to mental instability.

        I call it the “immaculate mental instability.” It comes out of nowhere in a typically sane person and is not at all based on the intense, ongoing mindfucking betrayal, gaslighting, verbal and emotional abuse from an intimate partner. It appears all on its own like the virgin birth.

        The kids found out about the affair when my daughter hacked FW’s phone and email. I guess I was such a terrible parent that they were completely on my side and remained so.

  • Why can’t you get over it?
    These darn core values necessary for me to sustain a primary relationship–trust, honesty, kindness, respect, putting your partner and children’s wellbeing in front of your decision-making– they aren’t there after all. I don’t want what IS there. Why can’t you get over that?

  • When “Why won’t she get over it?” enters the chat, “bitter” and “scorned” are not far behind.

    Which are, by the way, the Top Two words used by my STBX’s (fingers crossed) attorney.

    • I don’t understand why the attorney cares. AFAIK, your divorce settlement doesn’t depend on your attitude towards your STBX. Is the attorney arguing that he’d give you more money if you were *not* “bitter and scorned”? I sincerely doubt it. And if if not, what possible relevance could the fact that you *are* (according to STBX) “bitter and scorned” bear on the divorce?

    • From a couple of acquaintances I got ‘ You should forgive him so you won’t become bitter’ I wonder if they say that to men?
      Bitter, is one of those misogynistic descriptors like scorned.

      • We get it really fast too. My d-day was July 27, 2020. Divorce was final September 11, 2020. I went on a trip with a friend the first week of October 2020 and I heard how I sounded bitter and needed to get over it.

        I found out my husband of 20 years wanted me dead and had been planning on leaving me for years. I also found out he fantasized about raping children. I found out he was fucking people I thought of as friends behind my back. My income plummeted to 25% of what it had been, I had to get a new job, I lost my health insurance, etc. So many things. Awful things. And I was supposed to be “over it” just over two months from the time it started. I still hadn’t even found a new place I could afford to live when I was being told to get over it. I was still going through it all, I didn’t even get him out of the apartment until the end of September. It hurt at the time but now it pisses me off. What kind of piece of shit expects someone to be “over” the end of a 20 year marriage that fast? Like there was something wrong with me because I had human emotions. it’s disgusting.

        • OH MY GOD, Katie Pig. That’s insane. I’m so sorry you were treated that badly. Both by the FW XH, and the person telling you to get over it so soon. That is SERIOUSLY fucked up behavior by both of them. I’m sending you lots of mental hugs. Nobody deserves that shit.

          • Thank you! I appreciate all the mental hugs. I’m doing pretty great right now. I have to budget closely but I’m stable and have health insurance again and I’m back in school. Things are good. It helps so much to know other people see how crazy it was because I felt like I was getting things done and moving on very fast. But so many people in my life acted like it was unreasonable for me to be sad, hurt, scared, angry, etc. It was so confusing. Thank you for validating me. It really helps.

      • Oh, men do it to men, too. My current boss, while on an unwanted ride-along w/me early on in my current job (a FedEx thing), got my elevator story about the FW XW. So he looks at me unhappily and says, “Oh, so you’re bitter.” Then proceeded to tell me I should just be like him and move on quickly to another significant other, like he did. Because he’s on his fourth marriage, so he knows more about marriage than I do.???? No, I’m not kidding. We get along fine now, but that was a tough start to a LONG day in a van w/him.

        • …that sounds like enough grounds for murder to me. Cudo’s to you for powering through! and yes, those 4th marriages and beyond are full of great advice, aren’t they?

  • spousal re-write:
    My cheater and I have been married for eight years. We’re in our 30s and have two children. I loved him; thought he was my best friend. Unfortunately, that was a big mistake: he got drunk at a conference last month and slept with another woman. He swore it was a one-time thing and meant nothing to him! When he got home, he confessed, apologized and promised it would never happen again. It was as if a torpedo was shot into my heart, with physical and emotional pain like I’ve never known. I cannot even speak to him without gagging, and don’t see any resolution short of throwing him out. His apologies don’t begin to address how he selfishly gave away our intimacy, betrayed me, and endangered my sexual health without my consent (how is this legal?). This is killing me! What more can I do?

    • And my reptilian brain is desperately trying to break through 8 years of spackle to expose all the other ways he sucks too.

      • Sunrise, boy can I relate. I feel like spackling is my most effective gift and talent! Who knew? So easy to see in hindsight… I think about those little red flags from time to time, and I do wonder what the heck was going on, but then I remind myself that I know enough. I don’t want to be hurt anymore, and I know plenty to acknowledge that the relationship is not acceptable to me (not that FW gave me any choice – left for the OW after a 23 yr marriage). Every time I see CL refer to OWs as ‘winning the sparkly turd’, it totally cracks me up. Good luck to the pair of them, FW & Schmoopie, they deserve each other for sure. -FF

        • What irks me is that almost all the “statistics” I read on extra-marital affairs say the spouse rarely leaves for the affair partner. This blog absolutely counters that. Did I ever think my spouse of 30 years would betray me for a girl half his age? No, but he did just that. I always think, “why did my ex go against the statistics?!” But that’s why I keep coming back to read here. It (sadly) reminds me that I’m not the only one going through this and there is not something uniquely wrong with me that my husband left. It helps me see that the “wrong” is in the betraying spouse. How can there be so many people out there that get married and then throw everything away for some sparkly turd?! Why get married at all??? My ex married his affair partner. The statistics don’t look so great for them. I hope in his/her case the statistics hold and they divorce each other in a few years. More pain to them!

          • Heck yeah – my Divorce isn’t even finalized and I know there is FW talk of marriage, and as soon as I move out, Schmoopie and child are moving into my place. Can’t imagine why she would want to be in a place he lived 20 years with me. My influence is ALL OVER that home. Now I am excited about the chance to completely start over, find a place all my own, reinvent myself!!!

            • I think they want to be us. I’m starting to think that’s how OW operate. They hate themselves so they want to be someone else. I used to think it was an ego boost for them but since I happened to see a picture of my ex’s girlfriend and she’s dying her hair gray like mine… I think maybe they do this crap because they hate themselves so much they want to be someone else, that’s why they go after another woman’s life.

              • KP, I do have a text where the OW said to FW, “thank you for giving me this beautiful new life.” So perhaps you are correct – she is just going to give up her own life and slip into mine. That seems to be what FW wants, too, a wife appliance more attentive to his, ahem, “needs” and less inclined to hold him accountable for partnership or intimacy. Also, OW’s first marriage ended with her ex cheating and leaving her. I would’ve thought that would make her LESS likely to be an OW, but I can’t help thinking this might be some sort of perverted revenge fantasy for her… Oh well. Here I go again, trying to untangle the skein of effupedness LOL!!!

              • One of the best things I heard on a YouTube video about narcissistic people was that we are all simply actors in their movie. They are the center and in a way they don’t have any idea that people exist without reference to THEM.

                Since they are the director and you are just filling a role, they have no issue re-casting you if you cease to play your part to their satisfaction. It’s like when you watch a long-running show and they suddenly recast a lead role but continue on without any comment, and that new actor just acts like it’s been them all along.

                So when I wasn’t fulfilling his “needs” as you say (I asked for basic human decency, like maybe an apology once in awhile, where as she demanded absolutely nothing from him and was happy to lick his boots), he found someone else to fill my role. But there WERE things about me he liked, so he just manipulated her into doing/being those things instead. He had her cooking my recipes (or TRYING to, LOL – I saw some pictures and…wow), dressing like me, growing her hair long, reading the same books, watching the same movies, listening to the same music, going to the same concerts, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if he trained her sexually to do some of the things that I had been doing.

                That is odd that in your case OW was an OW herself. In my case, OW’s husband ended up moving another woman into the house a few weeks after schmoopie left (and didn’t tell her – she found out when she went to pick up her kids one morning and found two additional kids in the bedrooms). OW always said it was likely he had that woman on the side before she left him. She expressed such indignation that her husband would do that, that that woman would move into her home, that that woman was around her kids. All the while fucking MY husband in MY house and trying to mother MY kid. It was the most bizarre thing. Their minds truly aren’t normal, somehow.

              • Extra super bizarrely this was probably the case for me. The OW thought my life was so much better and so much more what she wanted and that my FW was better in important ways than her SO. I know because she used to be my friend and she would complain about her life. For reasons that aren’t clear to me, she never listened when I talked about my life because if she had…

              • I think they have no identity of their own so they co-opt someone else’s. Maybe their own lives are such disasters they think that they can solve their problems by sliding into someone else’s life wholesale. What schmoopie failed to realize is that my life isn’t the same without me in it. All the things that she thought were due to FW’s hard work and talent were actually do to my hard work and determination. Without me, his life fell apart, particularly where finances were concerned. I think she started to realize that, but not until she’d given him at least $25,000 of her savings (and he was still completely broke).

                Schmoopie grew her short hair (pixie cut) long like mine and dyed it red, like mine. She started dressing like me, too. I wasn’t the only one who noticed and remarked “is she trying to be you?” It was very strange to watch.

            • Ah, schmoopie’s don’t care. My FW’s Schmoopie fucked him regularly in my bed (mine – I brought it to our marriage), cooked in my kitchen, used all my things. Didn’t bother her, apparently. For heaven’s sake, our wedding portrait was on display in the living room (after I mentioned it at some point to FW, in an email to his lawyer, I think, he flipped it down on its face, but that was more than two years after the affair started).

              My sentimental shit, yeah. After awhile, my stbx told me I had to get my stuff out of the house because it wasn’t “good for his emotional health”. I have a sneaking suspicion Schmoopie didn’t like seeing my wedding dress in the closet.

          • It is never the fault of the betrayed spouse. Some of us have no idea why MANY years later. Betrayers almost always trade down, etc. That person is boosting the ego of the one who betrayed their spouse. Sometimes a spouse just decides they are interested in strange. Usually this is not the first time they were interested in strange. Might be the first time they acted on that interest but I doubt it. Betraying, etc. are character flaws. The betrayers lack integrity and are more interested in strange that not hurting those who love them. Narcs. May you find peace. Keep reading here. There is a lot of value in not being a cheater.

          • The stats say that because most of the cheaters have multiple affair partners. So statistically, they don’t leave their spouses for most of their human sex toys. Plenty of cheaters leave but since almost all of them are screwing multiple people, it skews the stats.

            From what I’ve found, my ex probably screwed hundreds of people throughout our 20 year marriage before he found one he decided to leave me for. Yours may have done the same. So, it was rare because it was for one out of 100 or 200 or more. I don’t buy the stories about people who have one affair with one person and have never done it before or after. The more I hear, the more it seems ALL cheaters are serial cheaters.

            • I realize now that my ex used to talk about a few women colleagues excessively and then introduce me to those women. One, let’s call her M, we took out to dinner when she was visiting our area. She had just been left abruptly by her husband. My ex felt sorry for her. After our divorce, I got suspicious and asked M over facebook if my ex ever came on to her. Her reply: “I know this is difficult for you now but things will get better.” She never answered the question. Another time, my ex took me to Vegas with him for a conference. He introduced me to another woman colleague, E, and she proceeded to tell me a story (off to the side) about how sweet my ex is – he walked E back to her hotel room at another conference and made sure she was safely there. Her husband was also at that conference…why didn’t HE walk E back to their hotel room?! And, why did they also split a few months later? I feel like such an idiot for not seeing these glaring signs. After our divorce, a search revealed that he comes up as a past resident of San Francisco. We never lived in San Francisco. But the timing of his residency there comes up right about the time he was working with his affair partner/current wife and wanted to invest a substantial sum in a “boat”. I think “the boat” was actually a love nest. It stinks knowing that someone you loved and trusted so much was making a complete fool of you.

          • Unfortunately, I think the statistics are true. Many cheaters have multiple partners–and they don’t leave their spouse for all of them. When a cheater is caught, he/she is much more likely to double down on the affair and leave the spouse to prove “this is my real soul mate” than a cheater who can just move on to a fresh affair when the old one becomes too boring. Once the spouse knows, the stakes change for everyone.

            The statistics on two cheaters who marry each other may be much more accurate–hurrah–they are dooming themselves!

  • There is no way to reason with the stupid.

    A reasonable person would see that his wife was home with 2 kids while FW was away at a conference… that is challenging enough. But then FW reveals he screwed a woman while on travel and claims “oops…I drank too much… won’t happen again.” Well, FW, you just revealed yourself to be a cheater and expect your wife to go back to trusting you? How exactly?

    If his best friend “accidentally” fucked his wife (just once!), would he get over it? Would FW be ok going on travel anymore and leaving his friend and wife in the same town?

    I think the intelligence chip this FW is missing is that his wife trusted him and did the hard work at home while he was out acting like an ape in the guise of “business travel.” It’s every spouse’s worst nightmare. And now she questions EVERY trip he went on. She questions every time he didn’t answer the phone or text her back. She questions if she can ever trust him traveling on his own again. And she questions if she should just divorce his ass and cut her losses.

    And yet, all this could be explained to the FW as to why she can’t “just get over it” and I guarantee he still wouldn’t get it.

    • My X used to work in the health care field and traveled a lot. Most of his co-workers were woman. I was told that I shouldn’t be worried when these women called him at home, after hours. It was just work. And since it was Clinic stuff, he couldn’t talk to me about it… you know patient confidentiality stuff.

      I now wonder just how many of those women were actually affair partners? How many of those out of town trips involved extra-curricular activities? I divorced him after I finally had enough of the other behaviors. I suspected him of cheating but I never was able to find absolute proof until well after I left him.

      7 years out and I still wonder about a lot of stuff that I trusted him on, took for granted. I’m guessing that I was duped and played from the get – go, but he just had me too busy to proving myself to him and keeping the balls juggling in the air that I didn’t get on the clue train until far too late. And it has certainly affected the way I view a personal relationship and the veracity of someone I may be interested in.

  • She probably won’t get over it until he undoes it.

    Use that magic penis to Hoover up some dignity back into his body. Maybe then she’d respect him again.

  • 1: She would never have done that to you, and she can’t wrap her mind around someone who is capable of that kind of betrayal.
    2: If you are capable of that, then you might throw her under the bus in a lot of other ways. This fact is new to her. It is mind-blowing. Now, anything could happen.
    3: Her world is now without the basic foundation that she once stood on.
    4: When you thought your spouse was the one person on the planet who had your back no matter what, this is earth-shattering.
    5: You could have given her herpes. You could have made her infertile.
    6: She does not have the mental capacity to obsess every time you go to work. She has been up all night. She has been throwing up daily. She was already overwhelmed with having to run your household. You have burdened her with a whole new, taxing, duty to add to the mental strain of running her life and yours and maybe the kids. You took away her precious time for the next hellish year or two. You took away her concentration, her competence, her peace and her rest for the coming years.

    • Well stated. Sad/melancholic, angry at the loss of so much and the need to expend So much energy (Qi) for BS that was unnecessary.
      If you wanted to walk, then walk. You didn’t need to hurt anyone. But, aye, there’s the rub.

    • Mia I am copying that and using it when it is needed to spread the word about the horror of infidelity.

      7. I would add: You have stolen money from her and transferred it to another woman either in the form of gifts or actually cash and payments. While she scrimped and saved to allow you to have the things you wanted.

      Maybe that is just me, but I think in most cases financial abuse is a big part of cheating.

      My son was having to wear cheap tennis shoes and clothing because we never had extra money, we had the money, he was just using it for his own lustful purposes.

      • YES! I was extreme couponing and only buying my clothes on the wal mart clearance rack. The kids got used stuff from goodwill. We got yelled at when leftovers weren’t eaten. I cooked everything from scratch. Made detergent and soap. FW was paying hookers cash and spending thousands on a good time and lots of alcohol. NOT ANYMORE! My 5 boys are not buying anything used anymore and we value ourselves more than he ever did. I’m working on “getting over it” which is happening because I’m getting over him-something he needs to do. Ugh

      • That part really, REALLY bothers me. I was struggling with our budget, I had so much stress. We just could not get ahead. And he was paying for shit for other women. He was paying for a phone for at least one of them. I make so much less than him but financially I’m so much better off now. It’s unreal.

      • This. So much this. He took 3-4 WEEKS of vacation time that I never knew about. Then skipped family trips because he didn’t have enough vacation time. Never thought to ask him to show me every pay stub and account for his time.

  • She won’t get over it because what is left unsaid here is he told her only because he did what he did with a co-worker. I’m guessing he told her about this one time thing that meant nothing to him because there was a good chance she would find out about it anyway, so he had to get in front of it. And she knows it.

  • “I had no idea my wife cared so much about our lousy marriage! It means nothing to me and I thought I could just fuck strange and brag to her about it and she’d go back to cooking for me, raising our kids, and washing my shit stained underwear. But she isn’t functioning correctly now! I don’t want to have to get another wife appliance, how do I fix this one?”

    • ” … shit stained underwear … ”

      #1 reason to establish early on that you’re not a damn laundress. If he seems not to be getting the message, a demonstration is in order.

      I washed xFW’s imported, nearly new Shetland wool fisherman sweater in hot water with the towels. It was a shame to ruin such a beautiful garment, but principles needed to be established. Lucky for me, he hadn’t yet gotten to the physically abusive stage.

    • I took one look at my (now) ex’s underwear when we moved in together and told him I was never doing his laundry or allowing him near mine. Of course, I did all the rest of the household laundry, and then all the child’s laundry after she came along, so I still ended up doing more than my share…. but those stains! YUCK!

  • Why won’t you get over it?
    Because when you are stabbed in the back you can’t reach the wound to stop the bleeding.
    But Fkwit says; “he’s a changed man, he’s found God, he’s grown up, he’s not interested in sex anymore, he’s not that person anymore” These are actual quotes.
    Why won’t she get over it?
    Because my 30 year (marriage) sense of reality was shattered with the disclosure of 100’s of prostitutes.
    Because I woke up living in a Twilight Zone episode –
    Because 30 years of my life were spent living with a fraud with a double life and I find it more terrifying than sad. And it’s profoundly sad.
    Because infidelity is a virus with long lasting effects.
    What do you do with 30 years of photos? Tear them all in 1/2?
    Why won’t she get over it?
    She did. She took the trash out.

  • Because character flaw.
    Because recidivism.
    Because his dick is more valuable than his family.
    Because tired cliche.

    One of the lessons that stuck with me from game theory class was “never trust a smoker” – they will give up the future for something they can have right now.

  • One should know what side of the bread is buttered… and never double dip their ‘chip’. That’s simply bad form.

  • Would he get over it if he came home from the conference and his wife said “ hay I had sex last night in our marital bed when you were away . It meant nothing I won’t do it again “
    My bad sorry not sorry

    I’m guessing nope he wouldn’t

  • Another rewrite:
    “My wife and I have been married for eight years. We’re in our 30s and have two children. I love her; she’s my best friend. But I still want to have sex with other women, and have thought about it a lot.

    Unfortunately, I made a series of choices last month, starting from when I saw an attractive woman at a conference. I was already thinking, ‘hey, off the leash for once, this is nice’, when I noticed Zazu’s tits and thought, ‘that, right there’.

    So anyhoo, I was at the cocktail reception, and so was Zazu, and I chose to stare at her. She noticed me staring, and smiled.

    So I chose to talk to her, and also chose to flirt with her a bit. It felt good, so I chose to have another drink, and then another.

    By now Zazu and I were hitting it off, so I chose to suggest we hit the hotel bar for some real food and some more drinks.

    I chose to drink more. I also chose to spend the best part of two hours in Zazu’s company, paying her a lot of attention.

    I chose to see her to her room. I chose to go into her room. I chose to kiss her, fool around with her, and get naked with her.

    I chose to have unprotected sex with Zazu. I then chose to go back to my room and pretend it didn’t happen.

    Even though the evidence suggests I put quite a lot of effort and choice into getting into Zazu’s pants, I told myself later that it was a one-time thing and meant nothing to me!

    When I got home, I was consumed with guilt, and my wife noticed and started asking awkward questions. So I decided the right thing to do was to tell my wife what had happened, apologize and promise it would never happen again. I knew there might be fallout, but she’s a chump, and anyway she’s got no income so she’s completely dependent on me. What the hell could she do?

    I had no idea she would be so upset, because I don’t really have any empathy. She has practically stopped talking to me and threatened to throw me out. I’ve apologized so many times. This is killing me! What more can I do?”

  • This is just typical cheater behavior. The seem to expect the wife appliance to just accept the so called “apology” and completely trust them again and go on cooking the meals and raising the kids. Once the trust is broken it is very difficult and time consuming to repair. Most Fuckwit’s do not want to do the hard work to fix themselves, they just expect the chump to “get over it”.
    Sorry to say, that once is the trust is gone, the cheater should be gone as well. My cheater pretty much said during the RIC that I just had to trust him and take his word. Kind of difficult when you know their word means nothing.

    • The cheaters are entitled enough to feel like they should just get a clean slate (with no consequences) because they verbally apologize. The apology that means nothing because the behavior doesn’t change. The apology is image management and appeasement of the chump: pure manipulation.

    • The cheater wives expect the husband appliances to keep on going too, and act like this is no big deal. Nuh uh. Fuck that noise. You just went thermonuclear on our hearts, and you want us to carry on and continue to support you no matter what you do or say? Only a fucking subset of sociopaths would think like that.

      Better still, they’ve convinced themselves and others that they’re fleeing from an abusive situation. Hmm, DARVO much????? Never touched them in anger, rarely argued w/them, tried to support them in everything they wanted to do professionally (but did express a desire for them to spend more time w/the family and spouse, instead of constantly running off to do extracurricular stuff in pursuit of their political ambitions. Bad boy!????), praised and thanked them for their domestic skills, shopped for groceries and ran whatever errands they needed whenever possible, told them and tried to show them constantly that they were loved and valued, etc.

      And yet, I was the one who was yelled at and had a hefty set of keys thrown at them in anger when getting the car oil changed too last minute when she was taking her roller derby friends/teamates for a long trip to an out of state match. Sorry, I didn’t want the car’s engine to seize up on the trip, stranding you and your group and losing us a functioning car. I held them up from starting their trip on her/their schedule, annoying and embarrassing her, and I guess I deserved that type of abusive behavior as punishment, right? Yeah, right. As was said before in this post, go fuck yourself.

      Perfect husband? Me? No, not even close. And I’m sure all my fellow male chumps would say the same about themselves. But honestly cared about and loved our now better understood fuckwit, deceitful, and narcissistic ex-wives? Yeah, I’m going to guess all us male chumps would say yes to that, too.

      Ok, I’m running out of steam (thank God, I know????). My fellow chumps, stay cool today. It’s going to be a hot one in my area of New England. Lots of love to you all. I’m going to try to get some exercise in. It helps me towards getting a smidgen further to Tuesday and meh. Hope you all are enjoying your (hopefully) fuckwit-free weekend.

  • Honestly, when I hear someone say “why won’t they get over it,” they either a) have never been truly hurt by anything or b) they will hurt you again because they can’t understand. Maybe a lack of empathy????

    My response to this guy…your actions have consequences and you don’t get to decide how she reacts FW.

  • Mr. Duplicity kept asking me that very same question. I googled “my boyfriend cheated and wants me to get over it” and I found CL and CN.

    He can eat my dust.

  • Oh, husband… who can fault you for making a mistake? You’ve made mistakes before: forgetting to stop and get milk on your way home, for example. She always forgave you, and the fallout was tolerable. Why not this time?
    And how are you supposed to know the boundaries and dealbreakers of your “best friend”/wife of 8 years/mother of your children? How can you be expected to have any awareness of her position on adultery? After all, everybody cheats! Marital vows are more of a suggested guideline than a binding commitment.
    You’ve done The Most, husband. You confessed your “big mistake.” (And you remembered the milk this time!) You apologized. You promised it wouldn’t happen again.
    I mean, what more does the woman expect?? You love her and call her your best friend! You have two children! She should be grateful! She should be forgiving! She should let bygones be bygones, and never bring up your “big mistake” again.
    She should appreciate you: there are way worse cheating husbands out there, and they have chumpy wives who forgive, spackle, and pick-me dance! Why, next time, you might not be so honest as to confess your mistake, given these unreasonable consequences!
    And, I mean, that would be her own fault!
    (Not that there will be a next time, of course. Because #goodhusband)

  • We just don’t want to fuck second hand dicks anymore. It’s not that we can’t get over it. Rather, we are over. It. You. Us.

    • Best quickie response
      “We are over it. You. Us.”
      wishing this for all chumps now that you know who they are. We just didn’t know !

      • And thanking the OW/OM who take our hand-me-downs. Good luck with that trust thing! You wanted it, you got it!

  • I’m an advice column junkie, and Philip Galanes’s Social Qs column is one of my favorites. I figured more than one citizen of ChumpNation would give Tracy a heads up about yesterday’s column. Graciousness truly is Mr. Galanes’s MO, so I wasn’t surprised by his answer, though it would be a gross understatement to say that I was really, really disappointed with it, and absolutely incensed with the whiny, entitled jackwad of a baby-man cheater. There is also a Social Qs Facebook group, and many of Mr. Galanes’s readers righteously tore the the cheating asshole letter writer a new asshole, though there were some commenters that have been influenced by the message of the RIC and counseled compassion and understanding for the cheater, along with spouting the ugly old “two people make a marriage, there must have been some motivation” message.

    The answers are sometime interesting, frequently infuriating, when columnists have to handle questions that really aren’t appropriate for them, like a work question sent to Miss Manners that would better be answered by Ask A Manager’s Alison Greene, or a whine about a chump who won’t get over being cheated on sent to Social Qs instead of Amy Dickinson, who would have pulled no punches.

  • “Why won’t she just get over it?”

    Because she doesn’t have to. Please leave.

    (For real this question shows he’s not sorry. This is not what sorry sounds like.)

  • Trust is gone and things could never be the same. She really needs to leave as well. Obviously she cannot “get over it”.

  • This is typical Cheater narrative BS that frames the situation as a “Chump problem.” The Cheater clearly believes that the Chump is in some way deficient for not “getting over” what the Cheater has done as quickly as the Cheater believes is appropriate. I mean, how dare the Chump take some time to process the impact of the Cheater’s unilateral decision/actions and decide what they want to do in light of discovering that they are a Chump and not just happily married and in a monogamous relationship?

    I’d also observe a number of things that the Cheater didn’t do: despite saying that it meant nothing to him, accept that what the Cheater has done might – just might – reasonably constitute a deal-breaker as far as the Chump is concerned; accept that it is for the Chump and the Chump alone to determine how long they need and; accept that they might be due some consequences, given that it was the Cheater that created this sh*tshow of a situation …. I’m sorry, but “This is killing me ….. what more can I do?” just reeks of someone whom believes that he’s already done enough to be entitled to absolute forgiveness and zero consequences going forwards.

    In terms of etiquette, I’d frame this as “one does not unilaterally indulge in behaviour that is inconsistent with your relationship in the belief that consequences above those that you judge are appropriate will not come your way.” Or to put it more bluntly, “If you f*ck around, don’t expect the casting vote when it comes to what you find out.”


  • Why don’t I get over something like this?

    Nitwit, this “I got drunk” BS is just the crystal ball your chump needs to see that you will always be a FW, and that there is nothing you can do about it (except dry up and blow away). At least she can get a good divorce.
    Ask me how I know.
    You are Sparkledick’s clone, and I just hope that your chump is not as stupid as I was; it took me TWENTY years to understand that the “I got drunk at a conference and slept with another woman” spiel was just the beginning.

    Nitwit, you want to know what more can you do? Dry up and blow away.
    And NYT, please fire Philip Galanes after his breezy BS dries up the nitwit.

  • My FW actually said, “It’s been two whole months since I told you about the 7-year affair, the hookers, the the Craigslist Hook-ups, the dating apps, the various conference flings. What is taking you so long to get over it?!” I remember telling him I didn’t have a chance of “getting over it” until HE got over HER. Uncomfortable silence, since he was actively still trying to engage with the OW under the guise of professional work.

    This was during the serious pick-me (kick-me) stage of my awful reality, before I found CL & CN. It never occurred to me to get STD tested. Sure enough, he had passed along HPV to me. I’m lucky that is all it was.

    I have come to realize I will never “get over it”. His awful betrayal(s) are now part of my history. However, I can manage it better now, I know triggers to avoid. The wounds left, though, have created some serious scarring. How does anybody get over the death of something, or someone, they truly loved? Like the situation described above, I can’t imagine anybody asking survivors of a drunk-caused car crash to just get over the death of their loved ones.

    No, I won’t just get over it. I know what that man/boy is capable of doing to someone he professed to love. I do have sympathy for any future women who fall for his extremely well put together charade.

    • This sounds just like the EX. He was amazed I couldn’t “get over it” after two weeks–a massive scheme that included felony fraud to pay for his hookers. He told me the problem with our marriage was that I couldn’t let go of the past. He meant a couple of weeks ago.

  • Why won’t she get over it? Well, because you told her so, and she believee you. After 8 years, we might need a refresher course on wedding 101. Were vows of fidelity and loyalty “until death doeth us part” included in the wedding contract? Then the promiscuous behavior might bring suspiscion that at least one of you is dead. That is rather troublesome news. We usually do’nt get quickly over the death of a marital partner. A grieving period of one year is culturally allowed/ imposed.
    “You got drunk” is a rather unreassuring piece of excuse. Your wife has absolutely no control on the reoccurence risk, and you just demonstrated that it can happen.
    “I swear it was a one-time thing” is another unreassuring piece of excuse. Only you can ensure it stays that way, and look at the poor job you did on keeping the zero-time thing that way!
    “I swear it meant nothing to me” is quite unreassuring, again. As an explanation of why it happened in the first place, this is solid information confirming you put no value on the wedding contract. It also demonstrates the (lack of) value of your word. She listened. She heard.

    • I totally agree! The EX was similarly stunned when I wasn’t impressed that he was keeping his hookers totally on a “professional” basis. (He proudly told me that he didn’t even know their names.) All this told me was that he was totally willing to shred our marriage over sex with someone he didn’t even know. That’s how little he thought of his vows. I would have maybe understood a little more if he had fallen in love with someone else. But if he wasn’t even in love with her, and if it meant nothing to him, then he torched our marriage over something that didn’t even matter–especially since he was getting plenty of sex at home from a wife who adored him. It made me realize that he wasn’t even trying to keep his vows. Minimal effort would have been sufficient.

  • I’ve never quite understood the logic behind “It meant nothing to me!!!”

    Is that supposed to make me feel better? You traded away the faith and trust of your wife of 24 years, who walked through hell for you, who held your hand when you had a potentially lethal diagnosis, for something that “meant nothing”?

    If it meant so little, why didn’t you just keep your dick in your pants?

    If I exchange my wedding ring for a day-old stale poppy-seed bagel, that’s my way of saying these two things, to me, are equal in value. So when they protest that they threw away their marriage for someone who meant nothing to them, what they’re saying is that their marriage was worth even less than nothing.

    I’ve never understood why they all seem to think this line of reasoning would be flattering to us. But no more untangling …

  • You broke your marriage vows with your best friend who “won’t get over it” and she’s the unreasonable one?

    They don’t get more stupid than this.

  • Wife can’t get over it because she came to the game with substance, depth, core values and character. Now that she’s discovered a superficial, shallow, immature, unwise manchild with no character, she’s reassessed her investment. He’s gone from asset to liability now. She learned a great lesson, albeit a harsh one: Don’t invest in shiny objects until you’ve scratched the surface to find out what’s under the veneer.

    • There are probably about as many men as women who “can’t get over it”. Chumps are of both sexes as are the betrayers. Just a reminder.

  • Get over it:
    “So I slept with a hooker in our house (twice), it shouldn’t be that big of a deal. You’re overreacting.”

    “The kids don’t need to tell anyone we’re getting divorced; it’s no one else’s business.”

    “You’ll never forgive me for what I did so what’s the point?” So it’s my fault he continued to cheat with a prostitute because I couldn’t “forgive” his transgression.

    “People chat, have connections (sex) with other people all of the time.”

    So many nuggets of bs from him, I can’t type them all.

    • “You’ll never forgive me for what I did so what’s the point?”
      I got this variation from XW:
      “I wanted to come back, but I knew that you would hold this against me forever, so I can’t.”
      Preemptive blame. Just another way to switch victim and offender. As Chump Lady frequently says, “It is not the cheating that is the problem, it is your reaction that is the problem. “

    • I heard the same thing- “I can’t change what happened so what’s the point?”

    • From my ex-husband’s supporters I got, “Well, he knew you wouldn’t agree to it (it being him being fucked in the ass by transgender prostitutes) so he had to do it behind your back. You basically forced him to do it. What was he supposed to do?!”

      Um, not spend our money on prostitutes? Not expose me to the very high HIV and Hepatitis C risks of receiving anal sex from prostitutes? Divorce me so he could freely live this lifestyle? Tell me he was going to do this so I could make my own decisions about if I was going to stay and take these risks? Because, you know… consent?

      • Same here, KP! YEARS of unprotected sex hookups with random men, women, couples, groups, escorts…pretty much anything with a friggen hole!

        Master manipulator, deceiver, evil monster with no empathy or moral compass. AND exposed me to deadly STIs…I will never forgive him for putting my life at risk. I feel like he raped me for the entire 15 years… No consent given his double life.

        He can FOAD for all I care.

  • First of all, because the word “sorry” isn’t a magic spell, that when you say it, it wipes the memory of the person who’s world/life you’ve just completely blown up, while spontaneously curing any STDs he’s passed to her.

    Also, If he found out his wife had sex with the neighbor (but it didn’t mean anything), how fast do you think he’d get over it? Plus, wouldn’t he be wondering if she do it again the next time he left town?

    And also, can we stop, as a society, saying that sex doesn’t mean anything? It always means something. And if it really doesn’t, (and assuming the guy ISN’T a sociopath), why couldn’t he have jerked off and gone to bed alone?

  • She won’t get over this because you have no humility and insight. If you had expressed your betrayal with the understanding of the gravity of the hurt you have caused and that you are not owed forgiveness just because you fessed up and claimed it meant nothing, she might have something left to believe in as you continue to rebuild with genuine gratitude for the love and graciousness she shows you…but you seem to think it’s not that big of a deal.

  • I don’t get people who think you should just forgive major transgressions and pretend like they never occurred. Sure, you can come to a place of forgiveness/peace/acceptance on your own, but that doesn’t mean that you have to trust them.

    A friend of mine used the “why won’t you forgive me” phase to get a post-nup. And yes, he did it again, so the divorce process was relatively easy. Different strokes for different folks.

  • It seems that a lot of people have a default setting of blameshifting.

    My own alcohol-related “why can’t you just let it go?!” literally happened last night.

    My daughter and I went to a beloved restaurant last night, a beloved family-owned institution that I’ve eaten at for decades. It is now owned by the two sons of one of the founders.

    Our entire meal, we were seated next to a woman who was totally bombed. I was waiting for her clothes to come off and for her to start dancing on the table. Just before she left, they brought her four cups of coffee in paper cups with lids (because like kiddies, someone drunk will spill). She got up to leave, unsteady. “Careful!” says one of the waiters. Alarmed, I asked our waiter if they were going to let her drive? I then heard all about this customer. Her name is Marie. She comes in a few times a week. She just had one drink. The Marie defense began.

    I am paying the bill and I have decided to call the Highway Patrol. I sent my outside to get her plate and vehicle description. The valet, whom I have known for years and considered a friend, seeing what my daughter was doing, started the Marie defense with her.

    This woman was BOMBED and could kill someone and I said so. To the waitress. To my friend the valet. And then to the owner who was on site hiding from me in the bar area at a table with his frat boy cronies. I told him that I was hit head on by a drunk driver (true, in 1988) and I called the highway patrol. His response was a condescending dismissive “whatever”.

    I was FURIOUS. My friend’s little brother is buried on the hill in a cemetery right next to the freeway. We pass it on the way home. He was killed in the 1970’s by a drunk driver who flipped his truck on the exit ramp directly across from the cemetery on the opposite side of the freeway. He and his friend were hitchhiking home and were picked up by a guy who was drunk. They were sitting the back of the pickup. His mother successfully sued the driver (who, of course, survived), and the bar where he had been drinking.

    I am so effing sick of people who don’t care about hurting other people. If other people are in danger. If other people get hurt. Who mistreat the person who got hurt or the person who speaks up.

    My daughter got the plate and the vehicle description. I called 911 and made the report. My friend, the valet, got a lecture from me, an alcoholic with 36 years of sobriety, who has been hit head on by a drunk driver, that this is serious MF shit.
    I am now reconsidering that friendship.
    I have loved and eaten at that restaurant for decades and may never eat there again.

    How to fix your picker?

    Hold out for people who SHOW that they CARE about other people, who STAND UP for other people. Who SPEAK UP and DO SOMETHING if someone is in harm’s way or has been harmed.

    LAUNCH people who show they don’t care.

    I had one blackout in my drinking career. I was sixteen. I was raped by my best friend’s older brother. I have only a few flashes of images, no real memory of that evening. I had no control over what I did or what happened to me.

    The writer today was drunk. But look at his attitude NOW. Why can’t SHE get over it?


    That alone tells me all I need to know, drunk or not.

    Time to use the launch codes.

    • Thank you for being an upstander, not merely a bystander VH. You probably saved somebody’s life.

      A family I babysat for as a teen was plowed into by a drunk driver. The entire family of five was in the hospital for weeks. The oldest child, a daughter, didn’t survive the crash.

    • Velvet, oh hell to the yes on your post. I applaud you calling about this.

      My marriage ended the day I knew my x would be drinking plenty with ho-workers on a boat then driving himself home. I called the sheriff and alerted them with his car, description, plates. They caught him before he could kill anyone. He called me from the jail to bring bail money and get him. He had no idea what I had done to get him caught.

      My reply to him on the phone from the jail?

      “I’m not your fucking mommy.” (A phrase he oft-used to insult me…)

    • You were probably roofied. (I was in roofied at a high school dance, when a classmate I had know for years brought me a cup of the non-alcoholic punch. Luckily my girlfriend took me home, and not the dirtbag guy.)

      • There was no roofie involved. It was a blackout, which is the hallmark symptom of alcoholism. We started out with rum and cokes, then switched to beer. I should have died from alcohol poisoning (I lost control of my bowels during the episode) but by a miracle came to. This happened at 16 and I got sober when I was 22.

        I’ll be 59 in September and have been sober ever since.

        • Wow. I have so much respect for you, VH. Congratulations on your sobriety.

    • Instead of giving her coffee and sending her on her way, they could not manage to call her a cab, instead? I hope they get sued!

      • That’s what blows my mind. Why would they take the risk? Even if they don’t give a shit about other people at all, what business sense does it make to risk the business by knowingly sending a drunk off to possibly kill people?

        I mean, there was a bar in my very small, rural town growing up. The only bar around. It actually closed because a bartender was working alone one night and she proceeded to get shit faced drunk, lock the bar up, and go home. She killed someone. And that bar was sued into oblivion and closed for years until someone else bought it and reopened it. I don’t even know how they could have prevented it since no one let her leave drunk because no one else was there and employees were not supposed to be drinking at work. But it still destroyed the owner’s family’s livelihood.

        And this idiotic restaurant is just sending drunks off? How are they so stupid that they don’t know this could end them?

    • Velvet: This times a million. When I first started reading the letter about getting drunk and hitting another vehicle and two kids being killed, I was sure someone was going to respond and say of course the mother is still upset. The writer seemed to be thinking of the mother who lost her children as a bother, a nuisance. When someone does something that causes intense pain, etc. to others, that someone can not think of themselves first. The people in pain come first IMO.

      I think the worst thing about being betrayed may be that too many betrayers have no idea the hurt they are slinging to people who thought they were loyal. We may never get over “it”. Gee, I wonder why they do not ask why can’t you get over my very harsh betrayal?

      I look forward to your posts, Velvet. You are very strong.

  • Why won’t she get over it? Hmmm. Well let’s see. Possibly because if you slept with your wife before confessing you put her physical health both immediate and future in jeopardy. And even if you didn’t sleep with your wife again you’ve put the security and best interests of her future and your childrens future at risk. What if one night stand got pregnant and you had to pay child support. That puts a dent in what your wife and children live on. What if you decide you want visitation of the child. Is your wife supposed to welcome this child with open arms? So having sex with someone means nothing to you. Does that mean sex with your wife means. I thing to you too? Is your whole life with her a lie? I’ve never been so drunk that I’ve not known what I’m doing is wrong. Another reason she’s not getting over it is you’re not really accepting the gravity of the hurt and betrayal that youve heaped upon her and your children. Your o ky and best response to her at this point is “I’m sorry”. Nothing else. That won’t make things ok but sometimes you’ve just got to accept the consequences that you caused by. no one’s choices except your own. Suck it up. The very most you can hope to have is a divorce where you get to still see your children. Anything above and beyond that is icing on the cake. Oh cake. See what I did there? And remember. YOU chose this. So when you don’t have your children for part of the holidays or their birthdays or anytime. When stepdad walks them down the aisle because he was more of a father to them and more loyal to their mom than you were just remember, YOU chose that.

  • “I love her, she’s my best friend”.

    When I hear, “my best friend” with regard to a ROMANTIC partner… yeah, it doesn’t sit well. All I read is, “this is a person with whom I’m too comfortable and towards whom I feel no sexual passion”. I could be entirely wrong on this, it’s just the feeling I get, my personal bias, maybe. I just.. wouldn’t describe a person I was bonking as ‘friend’ no matter how upstanding and wonderful they were out of bed.

    Loving the, “I was drunk” excuse, as if alcohol just changes a person’s entire moral code. It goes nicely with the “BUT I APOLOGISED” entitlement. Entitlement being a wonderful mindset to model to young children.

    “When I got home, I decided the right thing to do was to tell my wife what had happened, apologize and promise it would never happen again.”
    This guy is so comfortable and high on his own farts that he thinks confessing to bedding strange is on a par with spilling something in the kitchen. I’d be interested to know how he’d react if it was his wife acting disgracefully at office parties… I feel like he’d be the type to go postal.

    I love how the advice is, “improve the apology” but not “improve the behaviour”. Not, “improve your attitude towards the mother of your children”. Bravo. “Nah fam, you just need to up your bullshit game and then you can do what you like!”

    She won’t get over it because you’ve displayed zero remorse, just arrogant demands. You’ve put your entire ugly character on display, you’ve placed your demands and your pee pee above her safety, physical and emotional. She shouldn’t get over it. What you tolerate always escalates.

    • I am highly skeptical of the “best friend” who is another gender. I believe, in many cases, “best friend” is how a cheater describes the AP to their spouse in order to make the AP seem less threatening and to keep the cheater in cake.

  • Dear Husband, When you got married, you made the biggest promise of your life: to form a forever partnership in love and fidelity, acting in the best interest of your partnership, for life. Since then, all major life decisions were made in that context. This includes having children, and in so doing, promising to act in their best interest as well.

    Being in this partnership has been the foundation of your wife’s life. The one thing she could count on.

    So this is why she can’t get over it:
    1. You broke that promise. There is no amount of drunkenness or ANYTHING that changes what you chose to do. When you say that “it meant nothing,” you dismiss your marriage as unimportant.
    2. Your wife can no longer trust you. It is to your credit that you admitted it instead of lying. But your wife was trusting that something like this could NEVER happen. So now she is questioning every trip you ever took.
    3. You have made the choice to commit a marriage-ending act. You also betrayed your family, because your children are surely aware that there is trouble between you. And it’s very likely that they will lose their foundation: an intact family. They will know why, and your wife is suffering on their behalf.
    4. You consider her pain to be unreasonable. You have rationalized your actions to yourself, and seem to be “over it.” That is the coward’s way out. Take a step back and try to see your actions from her perspective.

    Husband, your next steps are critical. Set your needs aside, and take actions that allow your wife to process her new reality: her husband chiseled a huge crack in the foundation of her life, and the lives of your children.

    If she says move out, do it. If she asks for the truth, tell it, again and again. If she decides that the crack is too wide and she needs a divorce, do not make the crack wider by blaming her or putting the children in the middle of it.

    Few marriages survive infidelity. You have the opportunity to honor some of the promises you made. Make a generous settlement offer that provides for her transition to a single parent household. Provide for your children in every way you can. Walk away with some dignity. It will greatly improve your chances at a healthy relationship with your children.

    Husband, she will never get over it. There will always be BEFORE and AFTER. Behave in a manner that makes the AFTER as tolerable as possible.

  • The problem with this type of apology is that it is meant to avoid consequences instead of taking the steps to repair the harm that was done. Fuckwit was out on the town having a good time while wifey was home taking care of business, and made a series of poor choices… next day fuckwit doesn’t like the icky feelings (guilt, shame, fear of consequences if wife were to find out?) and decides to pass the ball on to faithful appliance to do the hard emotional work of cleaning up the mess he made. She’s so much better at it that he is…

    But she won’t “get over it”!? Well the least one can do when breaking such an important contract as wedding vows is to bring flowers… but all jokes aside, wife appliance can’t get over it because she realizes in that instant that the person she married doesn’t exist and everything she worked for over the years is now meaningless. So she has to get to work again because obviously fuckwit is not about to, and make sure this truly won’t “happen again”. And there’s only one way, only then, years later, when the hard work of divorcing and somewhat making it ok for the kids is done can she “get over it”. So the polite thing to do is shut up and wait if you’re not going to help.

    1. Do dress professionally. While away from the office you’re still representing your organization.
    2. Don’t fiddle with electronic devices during presentations. Presenters are your peers. Show some respect.
    3. Do arrive for presentations on time, and stay for the entire presentation.
    4. Do shake hands with a firm grip, and look the other person in the eye. Smile.
    5. Don’t overload your plate with buffet food you won’t eat. It’s wasteful!
    6. Don’t fuck your co-workers.
    7. Don’t fuck attendees from other organizations.
    8. Don’t fuck the locals.
    9. Don’t fuck the staff.
    10. Don’t fuck prostitutes.

    • 11. Do retire to your room at a reasonable hour, reasonably sober. Alone.
      12. Do call home occasionally. Thank your partner for keeping things running smoothly while you’re away.

      • When calling home, don’t call from a cab, late at night, laughing at everything with another woman in the cab, telling spouse it’s ‘just business’. Don’t be surprised when spouse hangs up on you. Will you remember it tomorrow? Sometimes yes, sometimes no..

  • If you can’t keep your fork to yourself at the adult table there are serious consequences.
    You will be forever banished to sit at the fork wit table.

    One drink , two drinks, three drinks, four, that’s no excuse to fork a whore.
    five, six, seven or eight you made a choice not a mistake.
    You and your fork are forked.

  • I wish FW wanted to be friends. (Not that I would ever be friends, I have not spoken to her Since she moved out. I only communicate through email.)
    FW is actively trying to destroy me and hurt me and my son. I am involved in wrongful termination lawsuit for getting let go from medical group while I was being treated for cancer 4 years ago. The case is finally coming to court. During my deposition Tuesday the defendant’s lawyer bought up my divorce and information that my wife gave trying to paint me as a bad man. Mind you I have been divorced for 5 weeks. Unfortunately it backfired because I pointed out she lied under oath when my divorce attorney deposed her and therefore she wasn’t trustworthy and would be a bad witness. Also now all of her infidelity is part of the record. If she is called as a witness she will get hammered and now have to answer all the questions she avoided by settling and giving me a very favorable deal. My lawyer was pleased but also was miffed that FW would be so evil. We concluded she is more than likely a covert narc like Amber Turd.

  • So you inadvertently bought a plane ticket, flew over to a cruise ship, where you parachuted out and just happened to be sans pants and then you fell onto your ex-girlfriend, who just happened to be on that cruise, sticking your dick in her. That is maybe an accident or mistake. I can’t get over a well-planned and executed betrayal. It’s like you planned a murder for weeks, went through with it, now you’re sorry, and you want her grieving family to just get over it and let you go free.

  • His last words to me. “All you need to do is tell me to come home.”

    Yeah. Right. Sure. After I spent 38 years cleaning up after you, why would I want to volunteer for more? After decades with a cheater and a porn addict what do you think you have that would make me swoon? 38 years of dead bedroom with a man-child who masturbated his penis till it died is supposed to be attractive to me? Sorry, not sorry, that with no dick left you are finding it difficult to find a new wife appliance. Start cleaning up your own mess.

    • I love it when I hear of these old farts that put their dick ahead of common sense. Then they think the woman who has put up with their shit for years wants that sack of shit back after throwing it all in her face.

  • Some simple rules when one-time mistakenly and accidentally sleeping with another (other than your spouse):

    1) Being drunk is always an acceptable excuse to cover any and all misdeeds or mistakes of any kind (big or small)……you know….DUI, slappin’ a cop, road rage, kicking puppies, having your johnson fall into an open pussy….then out again….then in again (and so on)….just some examples and certainly not a comprehensive list
    2) Declaring a mistake as a “one-time” event is completely acceptable and normal…..just as long as nobody knows of your previous trysts (if you and previous ho-bags are the only ones who know your secret history, one-time mistakes are just that……. #nodnodwinkwink )
    3) When accidently sleeping with another woman while you are married with children, ensure you use your breathe right strips as it would be impolite to snore and keep her up while you are both just trying to “sleep”….you deserve sleep after a rough night of getting drunk and becoming unexpectedly less “moral-ly”
    4) When innocently sleeping with a strange woman at a conference, if she is awakened by snoring (if you made another mistake and ignored #3) it is proper and expected that, since you are both up now anyways, that you are now obligated to roll her over and bump uglies while shouting “Who’s your daddy?” also while spanking those cheeks to and fro……slap, slap, slap!!!
    5) It is customary to sleep with people who are not your best friend and who you do not love as it will bring you much closer to the person that you do actually “love”. #themoreyouknow *star shooting across screen*
    6) When making wedding vows, everyone knows it is standard protocol to always have “an out” …you know….just in case…, when you NOW say “I promise”, it is vastly different than the previous promises……(not like that pesky promise you made at the Altar 8 years prior…..#myfingerswerecrossedhaha )

    I believe your wife is probably mad at you that it was only a “one-time thing”. One time……only one time! I would expect multiple times per night if you are in a room alone with a strange woman and without your kids (and wife). Very disappointing and your wife is understandably upset you visited Poundtown only once.

    You also failed to mentioned if you gave the other woman Cab Fare….this is proper and expected and if neglected, your loyal wife is within her rights to be upset. #imuberpissed

    It is also very understandable as to your cluelessness as to your wife’s potential upsetedness as you had no previous experience (supposedly) sleeping with a strange woman at a conference. Therefore, how could you possibly even imagine that such an innocent and pedestrian act of sleeping with another woman as a one-time thing could possibly affect the person to whom you promised to be faithful? It is all just one big misunderstanding. #cantweallgetalong #letbygonebebygones #narcentitlement

    Don’t worry…..the divorce between you two will just be a one-time thing as well.

  • My FW expected me to help HIM grieve the loss of his “sole mate.” We’d been married more than three decades; he’d connected with her for about three months earlier on a hook-up site and they never met or even done a video chat. After their one attempted phone call, he emailed her, “I couldn’t understand a single word you said, and you sounded like a man.” He’d sent her about $40k when I saw his email n our bedroom computer, inviting her to move immediately into the rental he’d found for them. He’d shared financial, banking, child schedules and a lot more that left us very vulnerable, but he claimed he couldn’t respond to my questions about what info and money he’d shared with her because he was mourning the loss of his one twu wuv.

    I filed, and he did everything he could to drag out the divorce and the custody case. I discovered he’d been stealing from me and my family for decades , but it was past the statute of limitations, so he got away with it. Today is the first anniversary of our divorce decree, which the judge signed four days after our 40th anniversary. About nine months later, I got sole custody and decision making. The proper etiquette, in my case, is celebrating with a chocolate cake.

    • Wait, he told her she sounded like a man?! Oh wow…that’s nuts.
      Live your best life, you deserve way better than him.

  • Many of these FWs demand the we “get over it” and are incapable of imagining how they would react in our situation. At least in my case, x hasn’t met a double standard he didn’t like. Betrayal for him is a mere “my bad.” Had I done the same, it would have been unforgivable. He’ll never see that.

    • Oh yes, mine told a mutual friend that he has been a “bad boy.” ????????????

  • After DD#1 mine said “how long do I have to be in the doghouse?” Then proceeded to lie in MC.

    We split after DD#2 and during the divorce he told me it was purely a business transaction.

    Later he said he knew I’d never forgive him. Since he knew I wouldn’t fall for his manipulation anymore, he just tried to bully me. It didn’t work. I held to my guns and got a good settlement.

    I breaks my heart that my daughter was part of the collateral damage. She’s doing great, but I fear the long term affects. I told him that when it’s time for her to marry she’ll have to make sure he isn’t a man like her father.

    My position is that you get one mistake — you come clean to your partner and either fix your shit or get out. Of course, it would be better to not have the affair in the first place, but realizing what you’ve done — the trust you’ve broken, the hurt and the impact to your partner and children — some can actually take a good look at themselves and take action.

    Of course, many (most?) don’t. I told mine that our daughter needed her father (I came from divorce.). And bought into his fake remorse as did the marriage counselor. Just to be devastated again a few years later.

    He’s now married the OW, lives the big life in a brand new house on a golf course. He simply changed the channel.

    I’ve downsized and am single, but my life is better, without a doubt. My kid is off to college and I’m discovering what I like. I hadn’t realized how much I compromised and suppressed my own needs over the years.

      • To be fair, if you remove all the moral, ethical and religious components of marriage, the only thing that’s left is money. From their perspective, this is an accurate assessment.

        The problem is that different groups of people use the the term “marriage” to denote different things (for some, it’s just a particular tax status, with a couple of health insurance freebies thrown in; for others, it’s a millennia-old set of ethical and religious obligations). The two groups really shouldn’t interact, as they use the same word (“marriage”) to mean radically different things, and it leads to misunderstanding and ill-will.

    • “He simply changed the channel.”:

      Yep. A simple flick of the wrist, and the channels are changed. Incredibly easy for them, apparently.

      When x announced to me that he was getting married (the cheater wedding occurred exactly one year after confessing to the multiyear affair), he intoned that he simply had to “move on.” “I must move on.” Poor guy.

      It’s like setting fire to your family house and then complaining that you had to find a new place to live (ignoring that your spouse and family are also standing in the ashes of a home that you burned). These types of FWs are incapable of empathy–“arsonists” who paint themselves as victims of their own fires.

      It’s truly remarkable.

  • I’ve been re-educated that someone whose Dick wanders and who wonders why she can’t get over it has passed into the “ I can’t be bothered to get to know my wife, I only care that she doesn’t bother me” kind of guy.
    The kind of guy I never wanted to be married to in the first place.

    I’ll not waste my time thinking of a reply & enjoy the responses. I love Tracy’s (& many of CN)snark but it doesn’t come naturally to me.

  • I’m sorry, I don’t have etiquette in me today after learning of today’s Supreme Court catastrophe.

    I’d say: Fuck right off, bro. You made the unilateral decision to fuck another woman and fuck over your family. You broke your mutually agreed upon marriage contract. Your wife is a human being with full agency (which you stole from her), not an appliance, and she can do whatever she needs to do. You forfeited your right to tell her anything, and in all fairness, you can no longer expect anything from her. You sound concerned with the consequences you’re facing, not the horrific damage you’ve done to your wife. Good for her. If your Dear Dickwad letter is an accurate reflection of your character, then you’re an entitled and obtuse POS, and I find it hard to believe this is your first rodeo. Do the right thing for once and listen to your STBX: give her the divorce she’s asking for and has a right to, and make it easy. Oh, and be sure to pay alimony/child support on time and without complaint.

    • What a shadowy day this is. I wonder whether in the wake of this SP decision there will be an uptick in cheating and abuse because I have a quirky personal theory that FWs are “agentic” in Stanley Milgrim’s meaning of the term: they’re primarily un-individualistic/conformist in the choices they make and may be extremely sensitive to certain “zeitgeists” and political power trends if those trends mesh with FWs’ preexisting impulses. I got that sense because FW in my case launched into his workplace affair with someone who was arguably a direct report literally the very week that a series of massive gender equality and harassment related events occurred. Just for a few, Trump and Weinstein were suddenly all over the news for assault/harassment related lawsuits and the #MeToo movement was launched. So the impulse that FW had at the start of this was, with his actions, to side with malign power and spit in the face of those standing up to it. FWs who compartmentalize will always deny the convergences but who relies on liars for thoughtful analyses?

      It was even clearer that Schmoops was doing exactly the same. One of the workplace whistleblowers who exposed the affair to me detested Schmoops because the creature would not only refuse to stand up for other women who were being harassed at work but would “pour blood in the water” by flirting with and sucking up to the creeps who’d been exposed. She cast her vote for Team FW quite blatantly. That’s what brewed enough resentment for this whistleblower to seek me out and inform me so no accident, huh?

      I had fun drily telling FW– who’s rapidly anti-Trump but who fucked an Evangelical Trump supporter– that he was right on-trend.

      • That’s a really interesting theory and I saw something similar happen with my former FW. He really started ramping up his EA with his QAnon loving coworker around the time #metoo was in the headlines in 2018-19. He told me later he started confiding in her more after coming to me for clarification about whether certain things he currently does as a man/did in his 20’s would be problematic in light of #metoo and not liking my response to him about it. I thought he was asking in good faith, so I told him his being butthurt at women being afraid of him in public/him not moving out of their way when walking on the sidewalk was not a good look, and that some of his actions as a young man could be categorized as rape (He dated a 16 year old when he was 23 and another time when he was 24 he wasn’t sure he had a partner’s full consent and instead of asking her he filmed their sexual encounter. I should have divorced him when he asked for my opinion on those scenarios, tbh.) So what did he do after I was honest with him? He downloaded a bunch of bikini pictures of his coworkers (and his EA partner) from their Facebook profiles for his spank bank without their consent (very much something #metoo would have called out) and ramped up the EA with QAnon lady. EA partner was of course sympathetic to the poor sad sausage for being married to “a feminazi who doesn’t even like [him]” and said “It sounds like your wife just doesn’t know how to treat a man.” Ugh. That said, I think of chump lady’s line about whether “knowing how to treat a man” entails butter churning and bonnets everytime I think of QAnon EA partner saying that to him now (and the fact that she died of an overdose during lockdown. Buh bye!)

        • Timing doesn’t lie. #MeToo triggered a lot of soul searching and probably even more denial and resentment. I’m glad my kids saw this happen in their formative years because the impression this made preceded any social inculcation into pervy practices and now their political die is cast. I’m not sure about my sons making Epstein island jokes at dinner (bleurg) but at least their gallows humor comes from the right place.

          But I think some who were already guilty would naturally double down on their ill-deeds in response to related political events out of twisted principle and because they felt thwarted. Case in point, child molesters reportedly do this: tell them not to molest children, pass some protective legislation, etc., and rather than abating they’ll crank up the predation.

          It makes sense. Reading up on batterer psychological profiles was required when I did advocacy for dv survivors. One thing I remember from the studies of DV expert Donald Dutton was how batterers are acutely sensitive to social attitudes towards partner abuse. It almost defines battering as a socially borne disease because abusers collect “ameliorative comparisons” that make battering seem acceptable and understandable and go nuts when confronted with social condemnation. But at some point if the social condemnation seems inevitable and relentless, it seems abusers’ self interest starts to kick in. For instance, rates of DV plummet in societies where there are stiff criminal consequences for the crime and the “parent state” shows it does not approve. Dutton reported a story from the former Soviet Union where rampant domestic violence rates shot down after one state randomly hired a slew of female judges who kept cracking down on offenders.

          I’ve always thought of cheating as a kind of cousin to DV because of multiple overlaps in perp psychology, MO, power tactics and the effects on victims. And also that agentic thing: a battle over sex-related abuse in any country seems to be a dog whistle for every FW to start frantically waving their freak flags as long as “their side” has a chance of winning.

        • “a feminazi who doesn’t even like [him]” and said “It sounds like your wife just doesn’t know how to treat a man.”

          UBT ; Pick me! Pick me! Would you like me to lick your boots, master?

          What a stupid bitch.

          • Agentic makes sense when considering societal cheating trends writ large. Thanks HOAC. I love the way you think. Agreed SCOTUS decision doesn’t bode well for chumps – and for US generally. More unwanted pregnancies carried to term logically means more children. As OHFFS said “all those demanding baby mamas and children born that don’t look at all like hubby.” The days of discarding AP and denying paternity/maternity are long gone. DNA testing easily accessible. See you in court. Result = dwindling child support $$ options as cheater income is whittled away. All the more reason for chumps to strike quickly divorce/file for $$ ASAP after D-day. First to file is first in the queue for $$.

            Agentic thing aside – it never ceases to amaze me that FWs will butter up ANYTHING that’s eager to dispense delicious kibble. Even when there’s NOTHING in common with AP, and even when AP embraces beliefs diametrically opposed to values Cheater claims to hold dear. Cheater is a rabid anti-Trump and schmoopie is Q-anon? Who cares! The kibble and pussy or dick buffet is just too damn irresistible. AP in my sitch is a pot-smoking, card carrying hippie chick (granny) into crystals, weird diets, paranoia about “chemicals” etc. etc. A type FW often mocked. And her personality is a cultural wasteland. NOTHING there. I can’t even imagine what they talked about IRL. If their text record is any indication, they just stroked each other’s egos (and other things) non stop. How boring. And pathetic.

            • LOL– actually FW and schmoops had one point in common but not in a good way. Him: raised in the city by arty culture vultures, vegans, socialists, journalists and indigenous rights activists who lost a family member and friends living abroad to a US-backed death squad. Her: raised eating pigs in a blanket in front of the TV in a ticky tacky provincial burb by a Trump-fanatic fundamentalist, racist dad who once worked as a military contractor for the same company that made arms used by the authoritarian regime that killed FW’s second cousin.

              Schmoopie wasn’t his first draft pick but oddly the others were exactly the same: though the first picks balked they were all far right fundamentalists. This was in a blue state to boot where it’s actually sort of hard to find right wing fundies. Now I can’t figure out if the whole thing was some dark subconscious “cuddling up to the enemy” thing or that workplace Jesus cheaters are just low hanging fruit for parking lot bonks?

              • My vote? Workplace Jesus cheaters are easy to mirror. And they luvs a sad sausage they can save. With their spiritual vaginas.

              • PS:
                Occam’s Razor
                The simplest solution if often the best. Especially when dealing with cheaters.

  • She can’t let it go because every time you come within smelling distance she’s overcome with the phantom stank of infected rando twat all over you. I think this was featured in an Emily Post column circa 1922: that it’s poor form to come home smelling of rando twat stank.

  • I don’t for a second believe that he came home and “confessed”. My guess is he has been gaslighting her for all 8 years of her marriage. Things haven’t added up—her gut has been screaming…..she has been trying to get the truth out of him….she probably has proof. So what does he do? “Oh, ok. yes, this happened. but it was just this once….” So now she knows she is NOT crazy and she can’t believe he has been making her believe that she is the crazy one.

    This guy is so in love with himself…he wants to write for advice…but doesn’t want to know the answer…just wants to do some image management in his letter. I wish the columnist had called him out on that bs.

  • Is Fallout what we are calling the possibility of a life threatening disease? The possibility of a new mouth to feed? The possibility of losing a job if the meaningless woman visits HR & gives her version of events? Pardon me for being upset, what was I thinking. What’s that? There’s another conference next quarter? QUACK QUACK QUACK Excuse the ducks as I get them in a row.

  • I was cheated on 12 years ago. I’ve never gotten over it. It changed me in ways I never even imaged.
    It killed 2 perfectly good people and made them into very sad people.
    I became a member of a club I never wanted to join.
    My life change without me having any say in it.
    My marriage ended that day as starting over is not the same marriage as you will never be the same man she married.

    You messed up big time.

    • Sammy….I’m coming up on 13 yrs since my life changed irrevocably without warning. In the 3 weeks from dday until ex moved out all I heard was that I needed to move on because he needed to go his own way to be happy. Happy??? I thought we were happy until we weren’t. Soul crushing does begin to describe the end of my 24+ yr marriage. I miss me.

  • As I said to my EX when he was surprised I was so upset and I was determined that he understand what a terrible thing he had done: “It would have been kinder to put a bullet in my head.”

      • Exactly. That kind of reasoning bothers me because it’s the reasoning my ex husband was using as to why it would be ok to murder me. It would be “kinder” and “easier” for me than divorcing.

        It’s really not. There is life after all this. And it can be a really great life. Death is not better.

  • She hasn’t “gotten over it” because you TRAUMATIZED HER you Fuckwit! To boot, you’re flippant attitude about the ABUSE you inflicted on her served no one but yourself as you simply wanted to get this shit off your chest so YOU could feel better. Your main concern is potential consequences starting with being thrown out. You have no concern over shattering her world and psyche.
    You, Fuckwit, lack empathy. The hallmark of a narcissist, sociopath and psychopath. Hard to get over dealing with someone like you.

  • To me, a mistake is if you spill something or knock something over or have some type of unintentional accident (shit happens, we’re human).

    But cheating is no accident or mistake…it’s a choice. A selfish choice.

  • Dear Whiny Little Bitch,

    Reason number one; you expect her to just get over it. That pretty much guarantees you’ll do it again. In fact, I doubt it was only that one time and she probably suspects it too.
    Cheaters sometimes try to assuage the small amount of guilt they feel for serial and LT fuckwitting by copping to what they see as a lesser offense. “Enotional affair” would be their first go to, but especially if they’re afraid schmoopie might bust them, they’ll admit to a “drunken mistake.” Conferences are common places for cheating, so if you go to a lot of conferences, and you’re you, that is to say an asshole of massive proportions, you do a lot of cheating. She’s probably figured that out, but even if she hasn’t, once is enough to reveal to her she has nothing to work with, especially if you lack remorse. Demanding she get over it and minimizing the seriousness of it = lack of remorse.

    Now shut up, WLB. I’m in mourning over the Roe V Wade decision and so should you be. It’s bad news for you cheaters in addition to being bad news for women and for human rights in general. Think of all those demanding baby mamas and children born that don’t look at all like hubby. After all, it’s not like you lot are going to use protection. That would “spoil the mood”, wouldn’t it, WLB.

    • Meant to say emotional affair, but that typo just gave me a better term for it; enemal affair, being that it is the province of assholes, and, much like getting an enema, a lot of shit is going to come out.

    • Yep. Mine copped to what he thought I knew, but then for some reason the dam broke eventually and I got to learn more then I even thought possible. He would also occasionally tell our friends too much info. Essentially, he lost track of his lies.

  • Dude, you didn’t break a drinking glass, or put a scratch on her car. She doesn’t have to “get over” you screwing around on her. I’d bet real money that you aren’t sorry you did it, but you’re very, very sorry that you told her about it. As if sneaking around would have made you a better person! She deserves better than you.

  • She’s having trouble getting over it because she felt safe, she trusted you and losing that safety and trust feels like a searing hot poker right through your heart. She’ll just get over it when… your real accountability shines through. When your contrition feels genuine, if you can promise never to do it again and then you don’t do it again. Ever. You do the hard yards to rebuild your trust, you show her that you are there, that you love her, that no one is above her. And then you ask her sincerely if she’s okay to still be married to you and if not, then you’ll do right by her and the kids. It’s called accountability, my friend. It’s not her fault that she’s hurt and pissed off.

    • And as most of us here now know, FKA, a cheater capable of accountability, rebuilding trust, love, hard work, commitment and consistency, empathy, patience, courage, etc… is an oxymoron. A unicorn. Newbies, this is NOT POSSIBLE! Don’t ask for it, don’t hope for it, don’t subject yourselves and your families to more, and worse, abuse.

      I so wanted — needed — that fantasy to be possible that I lived with extreme cognitive dissonance (and discomfort) and didn’t put down the hopium pipe for over a year of escalating insanity after the first dday. From CN, I’ve learned that this warped thinking is a normal survival response to abuse, betrayal, shock, and the unraveling of one’s life, family and future. That’s why we chumps are easy prey for the RIC and vultures like Esther Perel and most marriage counselors. However, it is dangerous and futile.

      • Yes this would be a rare unicorn indeed! I didn’t have one of those unicorns…

  • Why won’t she get over it?

    Because know she knows who you are.
    And she can’t go back to not knowing.

  • As a woman that has been cheated on, very recently and the fact that you have the capability to do such a devastating thing to your wife would tell me all I need to know. I’m ending my marriage. Although he won’t admit it I know this is why he left me abandoned. My situation is a bit different but I don’t understand how people can think that you can just “get over it” so easy. We were married 5 years and I’m supposed to act like the marriage never happened. It all feels fake to me now, the whole thing. I never got an apology, just thrown away like garbage after doing everything I could do in life to make it work. I even have him rubbing the fact that he’s screwing someone else in my face as I walk by because he didn’t like something I said. I’m stuck in the same place where it all fell apart until I can rebuild my life. I feel like I’m just supposed to just act like it never happened and I won’t do it. My whole entire life was turned upside down and when you don’t validate someone’s feelings you’re making it 10 times worse. I have to give it to your wife, I would have thrown you out no question. This wasn’t some dumb dating relationship, you didn’t just meet, you’re married and you stomped all over something that I’m assuming means something or should have.

  • The proper etiquette when caught in flagrante in the nest that belongs to your and your spouse is simple and straighforward. Never raise your voice or attempt to hide. Instead, both of you should calmly arise from the nest, put on suitable attire, and straighten the nest in an attempt to calm the hysterical spouse. Once the nest is neatened and order has been restored, you send your amore on their way. Then it will be easy to convince the hysterical spouse that they are imagining the scene they have witnessed.

  • Immediately after d-Day, ex-MIL encouraged me to “get over it” and take him back. She informed me that, in her day, women excused a bit of philandering. She made it sound as if it was part of being married.

    Me: But he wants her, not me.

    x-MIL: Blank stare.

    She couldn’t process this information. I guess it ran counter to her world view.

    Only a few weeks after this exchange, she met with and embraced the AP as if I’d never existed. I’d known that woman for over 35 years. Easy come, easy go.

    Going NC with her has been a perk of the entire cheater shit show.

    • “She informed me that, in her day, women excused a bit of philandering.”

      My guess is that was an inadvertent confession that FW’s father cheated and she excused it.
      Fuckwit then followed daddy’s example. It just goes to show you that if you tolerate cheating, your kids can either become cheaters or chumps, depending on which parent they identify with.

      Same as my FW. FW’s serial cheating father gave his mom an STD and she was still in denial about it. So two of FW’s siblings are cheaters and the other was chumped.

      • My mother in law whose husband was a cheater, gambler and alcoholic when I told her (he didn’t have the guts to face his mother) said “you would have been better off if he had died”.

        Of course a few months down the line blood took over and she sided with him.

        I still feel bad for her, he screwed up her life right along with mine. She was so proud of who she thought he had become. I know it devastated her. Heck it devastated me to find out who he really was.

        I got away, she didn’t.

        • Every day I wonder if I should tell my former MIL for this reason. She kidnapped him and ran away from his cheating dad. She’s 83 and proud of who he has become. We were very close and she still thinks she hasn’t seen me because of Covid. Since I’ve kicked him out, he’s lives with mommy now. She thinks it’s because he’s supporting her. I’m sure she thinks he still goes home to me, when he’s with other women. And I’m sure it and when he tells her we are divorced, he will make it out to be all my fault.

          • I’d tell her, Chumpion. The FW will tell her lies about you to support a claim that it was your fault. Grab the narrative before he does.

      • That’s such a great point, OHFFS. We’re only a generation ahead of the era where women were cultured to accept philandering in marriages. Chumps stayed, buried the secrets, continued the pick-me dance as part of marriage while Cheaters continued for decades. Unless Cheater was physically abusive, spent all the money on philandering, or fathered a child with another, few Chumps in that era considered leaving. Where vice is known and accepted it often moves forward to new generations. Unless the cycle is broken it becomes a template.

        • So true, L69. We’re doing our part to break that cycle. Other chumps need to step up.

          I never understood why people do the same stupid shit as their parents, but it seems most people do. Are they incapable of learning?
          My FW certainly seems incapable of learning. His cheater father had a pretty miserable life, hardly one you’d want to emulate. He ended up in a nursing home with few visitors and he died alone. FW’s fate will be the exact same. His kids no longer give a damn about him just like FW and his siblings didn’t give enough of a damn about his dad to visit him more than once in a blue moon. Ironically enough, it was his father going into nursing care that convinced FW time was short and he needed to cheat while he still could. Thus he insured that he would have the same end as his father. He ramped up his cheating to a fever pitch after his dad died, as if by doing so he could somehow forestall his own death. He tried to use being out of his mind with grief as an excuse when he was busted. Needless to say, I didn’t buy it. I pointed out that if he had cared enough to go insane with grief, he’d have cared enough to be there when his dad needed him. FW couldn’t dispute that, knowing that he was living it up with his whore while his dad lay there dying.

    • I, too, went from a dear and valued daughter-in-law to ghosted. Just another knife in my back.

  • I’m still not “over it” 5 years later and yes, I stayed but doubt that decision every waking moment. They won’t ever understand the magnitude of their betrayal.

    • Are you still with your cheater? I’m two years past D-Day and continue to doubt myself for staying, although he appears to be a remorseful, repentant unicorn.

  • Let’s put this in terms Husband can grasp: money. How would he feel if his wife said she was going out of town to care for a sick relative, but then when she gets back she says she also cleaned out the retirement fund to buy a Faberge egg, because it’s so shiny she couldn’t resist. He can just make all the money back over time, and she SAID sorry (but she’s keeping the egg). Why so upset? These things happen, it’s natural. Healthy, even! Women need a variety of moneys, it’s just how we evolved. Why are you oppressing her with your social conformity rules about not spending the family’s future security on shiny things for herself?

  • The only way this kind of person could understand how his wife feels is if she retaliated by selling or disposing of all of his favourite toys (car, motorcycle, model planes and WTF ever his entitled ass treasures). Trust me when you throw his busted up hiking boots in the trash he’ll throw a fit and wail and passive aggressive mention it for years because of “the loss of trust”.
    Playing hide the salami pales in comparison to chucking out damaged footware to these nutters.

    • JAC, you’re a genius. This is hilarious, and so apt! Also, you could be my sister, because you just described my dad to a tee.

  • Reading the Sunday NYT online this morning, I noticed that the advice letter featured in this CL Friday Challenge is one of the *Editor’s* Picks (hmm, looks like somebody’s a cheater?). WTF? I decided to take a peek at what people had to say in the comments section.

    Needless to say, I quickly realized I was not in Kansas anymore. Instead of the clear sighted, nuanced and caring wit and wisdom I’ve grown accustomed to with CL/CN, most comments were word salad, apologist, blame-shifting garbage. The majority of commenters missed the glaring fault in the original letter and the advice, which is that both minimize “the wife’s” personhood and ignore that this woman who was cheated upon has the right to know and choose for herself! Many male commenters offered blatantly abusive and sexist advice to men in similar situations to NOT to tell their wives if they have similar “bachelor party”/ONS situations “happen to them” — you know, for the sakes of their wives. How can anyone believe it is acceptable for a drunken-frat-boy-equivalent of a man (who clearly doesn’t have his wife’s sexual/mental/emotional/financial health or stability in mind) to keep major secrets and make decisions for a her and her family without her knowledge or consent? He knows what’s best for her? He owns her? WTF… gaslighting and abusive ideologies on a massive, cultural scale. It is so scary and sad. Then, of course, there were the monogamy dissenters with their usual. Well, then don’t enter into a marriage contract and convince a person to trust and invest themselves 100% in you as a LIFE PARTNER. Plenty of chumps manage and honor monogamy for decades, in spite of longterm neglect and abuse at the hands of their serially cheating, fuckwit partners.

    Cheers to the chump from NM who neatly cut through the crap and mentioned LACGAL — the best advice anyone could offer a person who’s just discovered they’re in a relationship with a cheater. I’m sure there were plenty of other solid comments from CN, but I couldn’t stomach scrolling for long. Thank you, all of CN (and of course CL) for offering something different.

  • I can’t get over it because I believed he loved me. Someone who loves me doesn’t do what he did. Do I have to continue to love a man who treats me with such contempt? Can I love myself enough to protect myself from his behavior? If he actually admitted and came clean and was sorry, maybe I could look him in the eye. I don’t think it’s a question of getting over it. It’s a question of dealing with the reality of who he is.

  • “Once we’re divorced, I might consider dating you,” said the serial cheater, the ex-pastor, teacher and covert narcissist who actively participated in a shocking number of deviant sex communities — in real life!

    “No, thanks.”

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