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Husband Uses Massage Parlors

Massage parlorDear Chump Lady,

I would appreciate your advice.

My husband had gone out to “run an errand.” I received a text that said “Come in. Lucy”

I called the number and was told the name of the business. It’s a massage “spa” a half mile from my house.

My husband came home 45 minutes later. I showed him the text. He denied knowledge. Ten minutes later he said “OK. I did get a massage there, but nothing else happened.”

I said “What else could happen?”

He just looked at me and didn’t answer.

I looked the place up online. The website showed seedy, dimly lit rooms with single beds, divided by curtains.

I looked up reviews for the place. The first was posted by a woman. She said she was “violated” by the woman giving her the massage. She said she filed a police report, stating that the woman made sexual advances toward her.

More research on adultsearch.com revealed details of sexual services provided and the names of the women who worked at the “spa” as well as their physical attributes, and the prices charged for hand jobs, blow jobs and full sex.

The next day, I waited until my husband had just taken his first sip of his morning coffee. I asked causally, how much did Lucy charge you for full sex?

He turned red and choked on his coffee. “What?” he sputtered.

I repeated the question. He said “Are you sure you want to go down this road?”

I asked, “What road? Having you been fucking whores in massage parlors?”

Thus began my nightmare.

We have been married 35 years, together 38 years.

He has admitted to fucking prostitutes in massage parlors for the past six years.

I am certain he has been doing this our entire marriage, but of course he denies it.

I am lining up my ducks to divorce him.

In the meantime, I have a question for you.

The person he has been fucking is the owner of FIVE Asian massage parlors in my area. She is Chinese. I have done some research on her and have discovered her personal cell is out of Flushing, NY. I believe she is not the actual owner of the five “spas” but is the manager. I would like to have her busted, but am concerned about the criminal network she is likely part of. Judging from the camper/trailer, and the clothesline and picnic tables behind the place, I think she is involved in trafficking.

I told my husband about my research and he begged me to let it go. I guess he didn’t mind banging her, but he’s a little concerned about blowing the whistle on the people she works for.

I would love to see him imprisoned for what he has done, but I have no proof, other than his confession. In my state, solicitation will only get you a one year sentence and a fine.

Part of me thinks she has been punished enough — she’s had to put up with his inept fucking for years.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jesus Cheater’s Chump

***

Dear JCC,

If you suspect human trafficking in the U.S., please call the National Human Trafficking Resource Center’s 24/7 hotline at 1-888-373-7888 or your state attorney general’s office. Please leave all the busting to law enforcement professionals.

Be furious with him. The women he’s been fucking, however, are most likely trafficked, or otherwise vulnerable people whose first job choice would not be sucking dicks in grotty strip malls.

Forbes did a story on this, which coincidentally mentions Flushing, N.Y. — Inside The $4.5 Billion Erotic Massage Parlor Industry.

In a typical scenario, a customer pays about $60 for a one-hour massage and then anywhere from an additional $50 for manual release to around $200 for intercourse. The erotic massage economy has become ubiquitous in American culture and touches every socio-economic stratum. In February 2019, Robert Kraft, the billionaire owner of the New England Patriots, was caught in a massage parlor sting in Florida. Along with 24 other men, Kraft was charged for soliciting prostitution. He pleaded not guilty, but issued a public apology.  The charges were dropped last fall.

No charges? No surprise. The Almighty Right to Jizz is sacrosanct.

Every article I read on prostitution feels compelled to mention legalization. But here’s a radical thought — why not chuck The Almighty Right to Jizz? Why is sex on demand unquestioned? Imagine a world in which creepy old Jesus cheaters like your husband cannot buy Asian teenagers by the hour.

Imagine a world in which they’d have to woo age-appropriate partners, reciprocate, make conversation, or up their bedroom skills! Or even (shudder) go without.

I know, I know… I’m a crazy dreamer.

(Although here’s an interesting read in Time about a program in Illinois going after Johns. Things go sad sausage pretty quickly with consequences.)

Anyway, JCC, my advice to you is focus on what gets you the best possible divorce settlement. Get your financials together, going back years, and figure out how and where this guy is siphoning off funds to support his “massage” habit. Then go after that money as theft of marital resources. While quasi-legal (talk to your lawyer), I’d also run a credit check on your husband to see if he isn’t hiding money or have other charge cards you’re unaware of.

Financial abuse almost always goes together with infidelity. Make a case that you’re entitled to those stolen funds. Not to HIM, you’re not discussing any of this with him, but with your lawyer. And you can always threaten to depose people like Lucy, should settlement talks stall. Just a suggestion!

And please get a full panel STD check, stat. He’s risked your health, as well as your finances.

You’re dealing with a very entitled man, so expect that he’s not going to react well to divorce. Keep it on the down low, and don’t discuss it with him, or have any more confrontations. Just drop the boom and get out safely.

With any luck, you’ll see his face in a line-up some day, but not before that settlement check clears, okay?

 

 

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  • It all just makes me so incredibly sad. All of Chump Nation is with you JCC. We want and wish for a better life ahead for you. Once you get past the shock of your life partner being a stranger. And a v unattractive stranger with crappy values at that. CN gets that.

    “ The erotic massage economy has become ubiquitous in American culture and touches every socio-economic stratum.”

    Something is very wrong here. Or am I naive … it’s human nature, get used to it?

    • If Darwin and the bible agree on one thing, original sin = primal nature. Even though I’m not religious, I think Jesus was spot on when he said “My Kingdom is not of this world.” In short, paradise on earth is not possible. Even if our tech and weapons advance, we don’t morally evolve as a species, so it’s not without reason that prostitution is called the oldest profession. It’s always existed and will always exist but I don’t support full decriminalization like in Germany, which is a disaster (https://www.trauma-and-prostitution.eu/en/2018/06/19/the-german-model-17-years-after-the-legalization-of-prostitution/), but rather criminalizing procurement and trafficking (kidnapping, pimping) and solicitation (johns), otherwise known as the Nordic model. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model_approach_to_prostitution).

      I’m truly concerned about trafficked children and adults but my sympathy for sex workers is limited by economics and the fact that there are further hidden victims of prostitution. In one study, it was found that women who were currently dependent on sex work tended to defend the trade while women who had aged out of the profession tended to be more frank about the horrors they endured or witnessed happening to others, so it’s not always possible to give prostitutes a “voice” and expect them not to simply ventriloquize their pimps and try to normalize the trade and minimize the abuses. This is why the united Zapatista Women Warriors stirred up controversy with hipster western “sex work is work” proponents a few years ago when the Zapatista women barred current sex workers from speaking about sex worker rights at Zapatista women’s global summit in Chiapas. This was because the regional prostitutes not only serve the army bases that were installed to oppress the Zapatistas and protect the corporations that wreck the land and human rights but the prostitutes also take money from Zapatista men while Zapatista women still work 20 hours a day to support their families. So if I ruled the world, I would make one addition to the Nordic model which is that prostitutes who take money from married men be civilly liable for theft of marital assets, applying the same rules as receiving stolen goods for which ignorance is no protection under the law. In other words, claiming they didn’t know the john was a married dad won’t keep them out of court. If they’re starving trafficked women who can’t pay the money back, so be it. But if they’re middle class sugar babies and escorts, they pay. While it wouldn’t stop the trade, it might dampen it if upscale hookers demanded ID and googled clients before agreeing to terms. I also think this should be applied to affair partners who receive/profit from stolen marital assets.

      Then there are other, less direct measures to reduce the flesh trade. With roughly 4% of UK college students and 5 to 15% of US college students (mostly female) at major universities (NYU, Columbia, etc.) engaging in some form of prostitution in order to pay tuition/college living expenses, at least some part of this scourge is preventable. I think closing the pay gap for women and making college affordable or free as it is in other countries might be a start.

      • Sorry if I sound heartless, but I somehow managed to pay for college without prostituting myself. I feel badly for women who are forced into the sex industry through trafficking, but for others it is a choice.
        My ex had a long term affair with a neighbor who had a drug habit. They were getting high together as well. She was known to give BJ’s to support this addiction, so it hits a nerve with me.

        • Like I said, I have somewhat limited sympathies for sex workers. Too many become inculcated and end up pimping, exploiting and turning a blind eye to the suffering of fellow sex workers. I have even less sympathy for “sugar babies” and witting side pieces who would hardly starve without pilfering the marital assets of FWs but want to boost their cheesy lifestyle fantasies. The AP in my situation was a scheming hunk of garbage who pigged out on my kids’ college funds.

          But the cost of tuition is insane these days. College tuition has outpaced inflation by up to 30%. When I saw the current in-state tuition for my alma mater in NYC my eyes fell out of my head. That’s even considering that tuition for that state school has increased at a slower rate than other universities. It just wasn’t that hard to pay for school in the nineties and rent and cost of living were vastly lower. Now NYU students easily pay a quarter million for an undergrad degree not including rent, food, etc., in what is now one of the most expensive cities in the world.

          If it seems like these people should lower their sights and go to provincial community colleges instead, bear in mind there are some frantically sought-after careers where the necessary connections are made starting in college or before. Just to channel millennial/Z anxiety for a second (that is apparently causing an explosion in depression, mood disorders, addiction, etc.), the more blurry the future becomes and the weirder the economy, the more anxious young people are to get off to a good start and ensure a lucrative future so they can have a place on the lunar colony when earth goes kaput or whatever it is they worry about.

      • Thank you for sharing that link about Germany’s experiment w/ legalized prostitution. It certainly validates Chump experience. It also lines up with Rachel Moran’s book “Paid for”.

      • ☝️ Thanks for information about German & Nordic models. I agree: Money is a quick, clear, simple equalizer for an innocent victim ~ Yes spouse. ADD children.
        IF the head gets cut off, then the snake dies. Snakes = Pimps who create the supply & collect the most profit, especially those
        well-connected, well-protected criminals. Example = Epstein. Blurry area might be somebody like Virginia Roberts Guiffra?
        She started as an underaged innocent victim, then ~ Did she (per recent lawsuit) become an abuser herself before escape?
        Okay, Ghislaine Maxwell gets 20 years (out of possible 60)
        for being a pimp, BUT what about the other female pimp-recruiters? What about those who authorized the Florida deal? What about those long lists of their flight-logs and black-books friends?

        👏👏 👏 to the Step Mom who bravely fought to protect her
        14 year old Daughter which started the dismantling of Epstein’s sex trafficking ring.

  • JCC, please call the humane trafficking number. You don’t need any proof and you may save a life. Then let them do their job. Your job is to walk away with the majority of the assets. Like CL says, keep the knowledge of the spa in your hip pocket for leverage. Get the papers signed and divorced as fast as you can. Before his brain says that was in the past or he starts telling people your crazy.

  • Ahhhh….you all may need to put me in Time Out for breaking the rule of not quantifying pain, but there is something SO horrific to me about men who do this.

    I can (almost but not really) understand the foolhardy Drunk on Limerance Two Wuv some cheaters are motivated by…but the purchase of sex from victimized strangers and the biohazards dangers to everyone involved. The putridity factor for me is very high and for anyone who suffered this version of Chumpdom, please accept my love and condolences.

    • They call prostitution the oldest profession. Even the Bible mentions male and female prostitutes. It’s sad, isn’t it?.

    • Thank you so much for this Unicornomore. It’s been 10 years since discovery (STIs discovered at pre-natal appointment when I was pregnant with my third child) and 6 since divorce. I’m firmly at meh. Even after finding out yesterday that he’s unemployed, again, which is why I haven’t received a child support check in months. No anger, just the resigned acceptance that I knew this day was coming because that’s who he is then onto figuring out how to pay for daughter’s dance trip without his help. But your words were incredibly validating and have me in tears this morning.
      Many people dismiss the pain of this kind of cheating because there was no “emotional” connection. It’s just “porn” (with a tactile add on, I guess). Maybe he wasn’t “in love” with any of these girls, but that was of little comfort when I was gulping down antibiotics to offset the risk that my baby could be born blind because of the infection he gave me.
      Anyway, your kindness has lightened my load this morning and reinforced my love for this community, the people who truly get it.

      • MTM, Im glad that I validated your pain in a way that was helpful to you. The idea that they would be so willing to endanger their spouses and unborn children with serious disease leaves me gobsmacked. I was once commenting about Tiger Woods during the era where his scandal was in the news and I told my Cheater that Tiger committee Biohazardous Rape because his wife did not consent to that level of risk. HE made a strange face and I thought he was being protective of Tiger (not himself). Im surprised that I didnt get a STI that I know about but I think his APs were women who got regular gyn care and chose to fuck coworkers rather than the sex trade. I will never know for sure, though.

    • I’ve encountered both the full on affair and the hooker habit. Lucky me! I found the affair way more difficult to process because of the emotional connection and implications. Of course, having the OW spill her twu feelings didn’t help. The hooker habit, while disgusting and morally offensive, I chalked up to poor character and impulse control. There was not a shred of desire for a pick me dance. Writing this I realize my reaction reflects how marginalized sex workers are in our society.

      • That is ghastly. When I thought there was just one, I thought it would have been better if there were more because the emotional connection might be less. When we are in pain, I think there is a common desperation to assume that something different would hurt less. The whole dang thing is just so nasty.

    • hate to shock anyone but my understanding is prostitution comes long before affairs

      • For mine, the affairs came long before the prostitution. He wasn’t willing to pay for it for a long time.

      • I believe that my Jesus Cheater dabbled in prostitution before he decided to start dating OW ( while married to naive ol’ me ).

    • Unicorn, this is exactly what cheating bastard ex did for the entirety of our 36 year plus marriage. Massage parlors, sex workers, Webcams, and eventually internet hookups sites where all he had to pay for was the hotel and food. I shudder to think that the sheer magnitude of assets spent on this pursuit were only exceeded by his gross sense of entitlement and cruelty.
      This is not a space anyone wishes to find themselves to be certain. And kudos to the mighty letter writer for getting out while the getting is good. It is truly the only viable option.
      Take him to the fucking cleaners while you are at it. And remember, you are not obligated to keep his secrets. This was and will never be about you. Like my ex, he is one fucked up dude.

      • 36 years for me, too, with this kind of cheater. Once I had a plan for getting out, I began to realize just how abhorrent his actions were. Only the truly disordered can keep a secret life for 36 or more years, raising sons & daughters, pretending to love his wife, all the time lying by omission & subterfuge. I gag when I think of the times he’d go to pray in front of abortion clinics. How many abortions might he have caused?

        I believe XH had been using women for years before I met him, and successfully hiding it. I never saw any greatly changed behavior until year 30 or so. Then money started going missing & he had some questionable work problems, resulting in being “let go,” but not fired.

        It’s difficult to explain a divorce to acquaintances that haven’t seen me for awhile. I have the simple, sanitized version, & the crass version. Often I just mumble out some words.

        My adult children & my good friends know the truth & that has saved me.

    • Thank you! This is my story, plus hookers on business trips. My state is doing a “John registry” if you’re caught (publicly out you online) and these places are getting raided a lot. There are anonymous ways to reports suspected sex at these parlors, I would love them to all be shut down.
      OP definitely get STD panel, I was gifted one from who knows which “incident of straying” my FW had.
      For several months after D-Day I would drive to the parlor and just park. I’d cry and get sick just watching all the men going in. Really wondered if they had partners that they were betraying. I’m past that now-thankfully, but seeing it still makes my stomach lurch.

      • ☝️Exposure is something & any kind of consequences is much better than nothing.
        IF betrayed spouse and/or kids had a vote between exposure or money, which?

  • Definitely follow CL’s advice.
    Definitely let the hotline know what you know.
    Definitely keep subpoenaing Lucy as you and your lawyers secret weapon.
    Definitely keep your actions going forward focused on your discovery, settlement and divorce.
    Ask the lawyers you interview what their thoughts are about these “massages”. If they doesn’t mention waste of marital assets and disgust, find one who does.
    You need someone aggressive.

    When the divorce agreement is signed and your future secure, they are many group fighting human trafficking that would be thrilled to have you join them and direct your disgust into supporting their efforts and educating others about this horrific activity taking place in every corner of the world. Even happier to take some of FW’s settlement $$ as a contribution.

    Good luck – you have lots of anger and backbone to propel you forward asap! Learn how to keep secrets like your cheater and keep your legal actions from him until you can shock him by serving divorce papers. He’s a pig.

    • Rebecca, love this advice: “Ask the lawyers you interview what their thoughts are about these “massages”. If they don’t mention waste of marital assets and disgust, find one who does.” Absolutely, get a legal professional who understands the financial implications of this (as well as the physical ones – please get STD tested ASAP).

      • I wouldn’t rule out an attorney who doesn’t appear disgusted. After years in their line of work, they unfortunately see all kinds of cases like these. They could be numb to the disgusting nature of it to a certain extent. Obviously, if their attitude is “Boys will be boys!” then move on. But don’t expect to see experienced attorneys who wretch like we do. They are trying to sort out the business side of getting you a good deal in the end. I won’t pay attorneys their fees to share my emotional response. I save that for a friend, counselor, or therapist.

        • Just adding my personal experience here to MrWonderful’sEx…

          My kickass (second) lawyer hated my ex almost as much as I did! She is a name partner in a major NYC matrimonial firm so all she has seen for her many years of practice is this shit.

          Got rid of the first lawyer because he made a mistake and blamed me for it. Grateful he did because I might not have known what it’s like to have a team so totally behind you! One of the most satisfying feelings I’ve ever had and their dislike and determination gave me strength.

          I say hold out for the best lawyer you can’t afford (no spelling mistake, beg for the $). Make sure you like their attitude and approach. Make sure they make you feel like they have your back legally and emotionally. There’s lots of great lawyers out there. Just have to find the right one for you.

          • To qualify, they aren’t your therapist!!!
            But I really believe that their emotional connection to a cheater’s perspective helps.

        • I agree MWE ~ get a lawyer who can apply the law to provable facts to get you the best outcome. They may display no sympathy for you at all, but that is what forums like CN, counsellors and friends are for.

  • When you discover you are being chumped, you naturally want to out the cheater and the O partner(s). But the economic reality is different for you, especially if you have kids. You have to seek the best economic outcome for you, and your children, and the cheater needs a paycheck to pay bills and judgements. The illegality or immorality of their actions does not buy groceries or pay school expenses. The damage has been done. Table your righteous indignation for another day, when your views and feelings can be expressed in the perfect world forum that none of us lives in.

    I know this sounds harsh, but most people really don’t care about the morality of others, except for salacious pleasure. I personally do not care about what indiscretions celebrities have, or my neighbors, either. I know tongues will wag, but what these FW’s do is irrelevant to my daily life. I personally pray for some news cycle’s to be over so I won’t have to hear any more details about other people’s sordid lives. I doubt cruelty and perversion have changed very much since Caligula, technology has just amped it up.

    We would like for the rest of the world to be shocked, and for the depraved to be punished and shamed. That is not likely to happen. You can only control you and choose your own actions and deeds. That is a full-time job. Being the sane parent is a full-time job. You have to concentrate on what is most important for you to accomplish and leave the rest up to some higher power to sort out. You are not responsible for the actions of a FW, or any accomplices. Take care of yourself and your children, that is more than enough.

    • This does not mean you cannot call a hotline to tip off authorities about illegal behavior. After the tip, it is their job to sort out the truth. If your FW gets caught up in the investigation, that will be his problem, but it may have economic impact for you. Plan accordingly.

    • Yes this, Portia. I could have had FW disbarred, charged with felony bigamy, etc., but that would have been against my, and most importantly my son’s, financial interest. It sucked so bad not being able to burn FW to the ground, but I couldn’t do it. Even after I got my settlement, it’s still (and always will be) in my son’s best interest that FW do well financially, even though I personally would like to see him in financial ruin.

  • “I repeated the question. He said ‘Are you sure you want to go down this road?’ ”

    In other words,
    “If you proceed in this manner, you’ll be responsible for the consequences.” Oh those FWS like to shift the blame. Don’t they? It’s not what they did that’s so bad. It’s that chumps insist on discussing/investigating. That’s the real problem.

    Oh, and then the poor FWs have to deal with the chump’s over-the-top reaction to what they’ve discovered that was often never meant to be discovered in the first place! The audacity of the chump! (Or you have FWs like x who fessed up before I got suspicious. I was spared the investigation phase.)

    The bottom line is that cheaters think that chumps blow everything out of proportion. Chumps get SO upset about little mistakes/indiscretions.

    All of the unpleasantness that follows is actually the chump’s fault (or at least half the chump’s fault). #bothsides
    #cheaterlogic

    See: chumplady.com/2020/07/the-mindfuckery-of-reverse-victim-offender/

    • My ex husband was also fucking whores. I went after one of the pimps and he was sent a subpoena. My ex actually said to me angrily “why do you keep kicking the hornets nest?“ I said “why did you bring the nest into my fucking house?”

    • Spinach@35 — I didn’t read his response that way. I read it as: “Are you sure you want to hear about how unsatisfying you’ve been to be around these many years? Do you think you’re strong enough to handle hearing how deficient you are in making me happy? The reasons why I feel the need to get sexual gratification elsewhere? Do you really want me to list all of your shortcomings? Are you ready to hear the truth about yourself?”

      In other words, typical DARVO blameshifting stuff. Just like these fuckwits do.

      • I think “Are you sure you want to hear about how unsatisfying you’ve been to be around” fits under Spinach35’s “consequences.”

      • I read it as, “We all know how much smoother things go when you don’t question my actions or decisions. Smart appliances know ‘don’t ask, don’t tell,’ so if you’re asking about things you’re not going to like the answers to, all the impacts/consequences of finding out the information are attributable to your stupid inability not to let sleeping (ahem, whoring) dogs lay.”

    • JCC, please listen to CL and call the hotline! Turn your evidence over and let the authorities handle sex trafficking ring. In your letter, you seem to doubt yourself about this situation and let me assure you….if it looks, walks, and sounds like a duck….then it’s a duck! Best to disclose what you found to the proper people and let them handle it. Do NOT feel sorry for the “manager” as your letter implied! She doesn’t sound like a manager but a “Madam” and if she’s running the place, she is enslaving other women into prostitution along with drugs and everything else that goes along with illegal lifestyles. That should enrage you to do the right thing, the right way!!!!

      Next, in your letter to CL you use some language that leads me to believe there is some grade A mindfuckery that has been happening in your marriage for a long with what sounds like a very entitled (probably highly narcissistic and manipulative) man. I understand, as I divorced 2 narcissistic fucktwits and one was all about Jesus. And, in my opinion, you seem to be going back and forth with him/the situation. (Example: You start off full bore getting your duck’s in a row and divorcing him…. then you tell him about your research, he begs you not to turn it in and now you are doubting yourself about a Madam saying that you feel sorry for her). I know it’s easier said than done but JCC for your health, safety and welfare STOP talking to this man. IMMEDIATELY! He knows your buttons, he knows how to push them, he knows how to make you doubt yourself, and he knows how to manipulate you to win. FUCK HIM! Go no contact or at least gray rock (if you don’t know the terms…please look them up), only discuss things about your divorce with you lawyer, and get out safely. Jesus cheaters tend to always want to shine supreme like they are super perfect and super Jesusy. When in reality they have flying monkeys amongst your innermost “circle” doing the dirty work for them. Be careful who you trust!

      As far as due diligence, in addition to doing a background credit check on him. I would suggest checking your phone records, bank/savings account records, life insurance policies (does he have extra policies out that you don’t know about, who is he/you leaving monies too, has he taken out money against his policy, etc.). If he is doing sex jobs in massage parlors you will be amazed at the other shady shit these assholes will be doing! Good luck and save yourself!

      • If she’s getting ducks in a row and obviously still in the house with him, it does make it hard to gray rock, but not impossible! I’m still in the ducks phase and here is what I have done to not let him in my head:
        1) Find a counselor or therapist to talk to, at least once or twice. When he presses you about discussing the situation, say that you are seeing a therapist or counselor to “sort out (your) feelings about the situation” and you don’t want to discuss it further.
        2) Don’t sleep with him. Tell him you are getting that STI panel done and you can’t trust sleeping with him now. You’re “still sorting out (your) feelings” and asking yourself what Jesus would do.
        3) If he keeps pushing you to talk about it, tell him to move into the spare bedroom. Or you move into it. Be gone a lot. Go talk to the therapist, engage in hobbies, go out to dinner with friends. Avoid him as much as possible.

        It’s really hard to get stuff sorted out to go when you have been together decades and may need to establish your own credit and, dear lord the housing market right now. Keep working on your safe escape and definitely shut your mouth from letting him in your head.

        • Amen Mr.WEx!!!! Sending big hugs and major bitch boot feels your way sister. You are doing great and keep up the good work. I hope you get out soon. Stay safe!!!!

        • I was in forced co-hab with mine for 10 months while the legal specifics (including guardian ad litem) were sorted out. Gray rock under those circumstances is difficult for sure, but not impossible, even with one or more children in the house. Plus, it’s an intensive crash course that results in black-belt, ninja level gray rock skills that become part of you forever.

          The ironic thing is, because I knew EXACTLY who and what I was dealing with (i.e., knowing I was dealing with a lizard rather than the human suit she was wearing), that 10-month period was easier to deal with than I would have thought. It was the 3+ months dealing with the human suit that was difficult.

          • I had to live next door to fuckwit and his rotating band of underage fuck buddies. I went beyond gray rock. I went black rock. Been four years and I’ve hardly laughed at all. It killed off a part of me big time. He had the nerve to ask my attorney at final mediation why I looked so “stone like” and she told him that he shouldn’t wonder since he had sucked the blood life out of me for 32 years. I never smiled, responded, blinked, or moved a facial muscle around him again. Corpse. I probably will remain so.

            • FWF I am impressed in some ways by the victims of narcs who dont go black rock in person after the game is exposed. I’m not giving one more bit of myself to my phoney ex cos for me that would mean collusion. You might not have laughed but your sense of humor is well intact.

            • I feel this. Parts of me are dead. There’s no nice way to say that and I hate that it sounds so dramatic but it’s true. Parts of me just died. When the last horrible thing happened the pain was so intense I felt like I couldn’t survive it. But then it just stopped. And there was relief. But logically I also thought how sad it was because I knew the pain stopped because some parts of me died and they won’t ever come back. That’s when I cut off my sister. What do I need her for? She wasn’t supportive of me. I could finally look at logically and I feel nothing about no longer having a sibling. I’m more logical now and I don’t have to feel pain all the time. I don’t give any fucks about what anybody thinks of me. I still have friends and I’m collecting more but if they turn out to be takers? Then fuck them. I’ll get rid of them. Even with all my dead parts I’m still interested in being part of a community and helping people. But I have zero concern for people who don’t want to participate in relationships while they reap the benefits.

              It’s good and bad. I used to wonder how some people go through horrific things and still function and are decent. Now I feel like I know. After a certain point, the fuses just burn out.

              • That is exactly what I am feeling: numb. It dulls the excruciating pain but also most of the pleasures and joys of life.
                All that’s keeping me going are the kids, my support network (including CN!), and the hope that someday it will get better. If I thought it would be like this forever, I don’t think I could face it.

          • “…an intensive crash course that results in black-belt, ninja level gray rock skills that become part of you forever.” I can feel this happening for me, UX. The gray rock – or as I read on here earlier this week, “benevolent business-like” – with STBX is helping me navigate other activating situations with a variety of dumb-dumbs. As someone who feels deeply and has long been comfortable discussing emotions, it feels unnatural to me to “gray rock”. But I have a sense these skills are going to serve me well going forward.

  • WOW. Yes, please follow CL’s advice and report suspected trafficking. Your pain could be turned into something incredibly previous for women who get their freedom. (and do all the other stuff too, but please for the sake of others – these women, and the wives of the men who go to them – report the trafficking.) Please give whoever you talk to all the great info you have here, including the details about the trailer and the on-line review. THANK YOU!!

  • This is a little off topic but maybe not really. I was horrified when I recently went into a nail spa (in a local mall) to have a pedicure and found all the women there scantily clad in short shorts with half their asses hanging out & then proceeded to spread their legs at the customer’s feet (the young ladies getting pedicures across from me were clearly embarrassed). I luckily had a young man dressed normally tell me they are all from Vietnam. I won’t be going back there & left a scathing Google review. I suspect they’re all trafficked and are sold for other jobs than mani-pedis. I’m amazed at the people who are okay with viewing others as nothing more than sexual objects, but that’s what the porn industry has been working for since the beginning of time, I’m sure. Protecting & Inflating the Almighty Right to Jizz, as CL says. Sounds like the OP’s husband belongs to that church. I hope she does leave him in his almighty pew there!

    • ☝️“…that’s what the porn industry has been working for..”Ugh:Porn! Hate it as the source of mind control programming ~ especially the children, teens & young adults. Nice, Normal, Organic sexual development seems extinct. Still makes no sense to me that porn is legal under Freedom of Speech.

  • Good advice. Gather evidence for your escape and get out of the marriage.

    My attorney repeatedly told me that what you know is always just the tip of the iceberg in these things. He also cited adultsearch.com and recommended that we hire a PI, but I said only if we were going to trial. I asked him how sure he was about certain observations, and he said 95%. Then my ex’s attorney also broke attorney-client privilege and hinted at things that would have made a trial very colorful. I told my attorney to keep me in the dark about what he knew unless we went to trial, and he respected that.

    I got a good negotiated settlement and accepted that the unanswered questions would remain. Post-divorce I was chatting informally with a therapist friend of mine, and he observed that humans tend to repeat behaviors, no matter how horrible or unhealthy they are. Getting away is the only answer to these types of things. I had to agree.

    At some point when you have your head together, I’d file a report with the authorities. Just horrible to think that this industry even exists, but it wouldn’t be there if there wasn’t demand.

    • “Just horrible to think that this industry even exists, but it wouldn’t be there if there wasn’t demand.”

      Nordic Model, now!

    • “At some point when you have your head together, I’d file a report with the authorities.”

      I agree that it’s worth filing a report. And sadly, as you acknowledge, it’s likely not urgent. I don’t have confidence in “the authorities.” I hate that reporting is the best that “we” can do. Sounds like this particular ring is known. What are “they” going to do about it?

  • Wise to run, not just walk away. In my experience, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Don’t try to find out how big the iceberg is, it’s a waste of time, it’s really cold down there. The tip is reason enough. Focus on finding inner and outer resources. That’s exhausting enough. The disclosure is traumatizing. It’s hard as hell to find out out of the blue that your trust and your investment in the marriage have been abused. Get what you need to feel safe (mental health help, friends and family, swimming, meditation, anything that centers you) and then line your ducks one by one. Focus on you and your needs. What goes on outside and what the authorities do or do not do is not something you can really control, and focusing on that only saps the energy you need to take care of yourself.

    • Also: NY is a no-fault divorce state. It’s pretty much useless to gather evidence. But it’s helpful to know that eventually the FW being himself will be punishment enough — in fact, in time, it will be plenty! Focus your energies on getting a settlement that works for your and your daughter’s needs.

      • NY is both “no-fault” and “at fault”.
        Regardless if a state is no-fault only, the court allows parties to submit evidence of dissipation of marital funds.

        • Florida is equitable distribution. The threat of trial with evidence, be it drugs, prostitution or the 33 years younger gold digger (2 out of 3) is quite helpful with Marriage Settlement Agreement.

      • I disagree with the statement that it is useless to gather info in No Fault state.
        Even if state is no fault having evidence gives you leverage. I had so much evidence that FW gave me the best deal possible in lieu of giving her second deposition.
        2 days before her 2nd deposition my badass lawyer called all APs (yes plural) as well as spouses and told them they were going to be subpoenaed. That got back to FW. While I wanted her to get deposed and admit everything the deal was too good. She still got half of savings 1/2 value of house, but No Alimony and didn’t get any of my businesses. Plus she is responsible for 1/2 of s15 high school and college education. We were married 18 years. I’m a spine surgeon and I pay no alimony. She has to go back to work full time as nurse to get benefits. I almost feel sorry for her

  • Thank you, Tracy. I’ll follow your advice. I have a 13 year old daughter that we adopted when she was six weeks old. She had prenatal drug and alcohol exposure. Her cognitive ability is about half her age. She requires 24 hour eyes on supervision to keep her safe. I have been her primary caregiver the entire time. I home school her as well. She will always require an external brain and will require lifetime care. I will do what is necessary to get a proper settlement and ensure that my STBX husband will work until he drops dead so that my daughter and I can live our best life.

    • JCC, as a primary caregiver of a kid with extra needs, and a homeschooling mom, you have so many organizational skills–you’ll likely power through the paperwork and ridiculousness of a settlement. that said, find a gentle place to cry your eyes out, too.

      i’m sorry you’ve been chumped. hell, i’m sorry we’ve all been chumped. #onwards

    • I have an adult son with a disability. Trying to keep his needs in mind delayed the divorce for me as I knew that what I decided would have huge ramifications for him. His dad helped minimally.
      My son is actually doing much better after the divorce. But I am glad I took the time to ensure what would happen financially – I went to an attorney early on to see what I’d be liable for, and what steps to take, in case H had gotten arrested or fired for cause. I ended up using a different attorney after getting all my ducks in a row.
      It was hard to end the habit of discussing everything with H. Until I got a + STI test.
      Focus on your safety – you are not “betraying him” to keep yourself safe.

  • Call and report them. These scumbags get shut down all the time. They will not try to figure out who turned them in and come after you. That doesn’t happen. They’ll just reopen somewhere else but you may save one or more of their victims by getting them raided.

    Your husband is basically a rapist but he won’t face any charges because men are permitted to rape enslaved women this way. It’s a rapist loophole. But you know what he is now fortunately and can get away from him. I’m so sorry. I found out my ex was a really evil person too. It’s an extra level of pain. I’m glad you’re seeing this for what it is though. He’s a sick fuck who likes to rape trafficked women for less than it costs him to fill his gas tank. He’s evil. And while it’s painful, it’s so much better to know than to waste any more time with these monsters.

    • I’m right there with you. After D-Day, I told my husband that when I looked at him, I just saw a rapist. Even if she thanks you at the end for the $200 you leave on the dresser, she still just got fucked by somebody she didn’t want to fuck and that would pretty much be the definition of rape. I guarantee none of these little girls grew up dreaming about someday having 60 something-year-old men groping all over them. He didn’t have anything to say.

  • JCC My heart goes out to you. CL is correct in advising you to rid this horrible man from your life. I would also report the sex parlor and owner to somehow help the young immigrant women. As painful as it is to discover your husband is a cheating selfish bag of crap, you have to think of yourself now. I know how painful it is as my 35 year marriage was destroyed by an affair that almost destroyed me.
    Please get an STD test immediately and throw him out of your life.
    Stay strong and I wish you a peaceful
    life after this.

  • Traitor X is a patron of massage parlors.

    Considering the considerable linkage between sex work and human trafficking, and the percentage of sex workers with a history of childhood sexual abuse, my first reason for divorcing him was not cheating but that his patronage of massage parlors (and what he said to me about it which I won’t repeat here) revealed abject disrespect and disregard for his fellow human beings.

    I am acquainted with a local man who is a Vietnam veteran who for
    many years coordinated missions to Southeast Asia for the purpose of rescuing women and girls who were enslaved sex workers. Of the chained-to-a-bed variety. There are actual chains and invisible chains.

    I want to be associated with people who are part of the solution. I don’t
    want anything to do with anyone who is part of the problem, let alone be married to them.

    This fact alone about Traitor X was
    more than enough to extinguish any and all attraction to him.

    I suspect that the Craigslist cockroach who is The Affair I Found Out About may have been a “massage” therapist. What she chose is a man who is ugly and mean on the inside despite however otherwise he may outwardly appear.

    • …..and even if you’re getting paid for sex work, if your customer is in a committed relationship you are an OP and have a part in hurting the partner in the dark and all involved children.

      In terms of how our behavior affects others, from my own life, the day I got clean and sober was the day I realized that as a customer buying mind altering substances I was fueling a machine of misery. I was part of the problem, connected to and causing harm in the world, and not the isolated island of “I’m not hurting anybody!” I thought I was. I was one of the reasons little kids were picking coca leaves in Bolivia. I was one of the reasons my drug dealer’s child was neglected. I was buying a product and behaving in ways that caused a lot of misery in the world.

      My behavior is linked to and connected to and ripples outward and affects the world around me, in ways known to me and in ways invisible and unknown to me. I never thought that until the day my drug dealer’s child answered the door of the camping trailer she was housed in. It was two o’clock in the afternoon. He had been sitting in the dark inside all day while she was passed out on the sleeping platform. I thought, “I am helping this to happen.” A new and radical thought for me. I have been clean and sober since that day.

      In 36 years of active recovery, I have been privy to a lot misery attached to the sex work industry, legal or not.
      At this point I am not convinced it’s a benign industry, and I don’t know if I ever will be.

      Cheaters and people who screw around with married/committed people don’t make those connections, nor do they care.

  • Perfect response, chumplady. As usual.

    I used the chat feature on the national trafficking website about a year ago. It was easy and I was able to report the tiny bits I had uncovered but not give my name, etc. The person on the other end of the chat was very knowledgeable and easy to work with. The person said, “Yes, we will accept what you want to tell us” even though I knew I only had scant pieces of a much larger puzzle. It was a relief to me to be able to pass this information on and be done with it. In my case, this wasn’t my FW, but an online dating encounter.

  • In addition to his 7 year affair with Schmoopie, my FW also had various dating website profiles (including Ashley Madison), frequented massage parlors, hired “independent” hookers, and had a robust porn habit (which created a serious Delayed Ejaculation problem).

    In regards to the hookers and porn, he assured me that all the ones he hired/watched weren’t trafficked. And he knew this….how? Also, he called his hooker hires “data collecting”, since he wanted to find out, for himself, that hookers wouldn’t take it up the ass or swallow. Guess what? They wouldn’t. Oh, and it was MY fault that he had to do that data collecting. BTW, I did everything those hookers did, 2-3 times a week. He was getting plenty at home. Also, as a “data point”, those hookers would quit trying after 30 minutes (see DE above) and tell him they were done.

    Amnesty International doesn’t take into account the faceless/nameless victims of prostitution: the spouses/families of the Johns. Our voices need to be heard, and our positive STD results displayed.

    My heart breaks for those who have been trafficked. Indeed, I know a young woman who was lured to NYC for a “modeling job”, only to be caught in that web. She was literally a prisoner in a seedy hotel for several years. The person who saved her was one of her John’s…a priest. He managed to get her out. She returned home suffering from severe PTSD. Sadly, two weeks ago she committed suicide.

    • Ugh. Before I snark, I just want to say that I’m at a loss for words about that woman. So tragic.
      _________________

      Back to your x:

      “Data collection.” That’s euphemism gold!! It would almost be laughable if it weren’t so awful.

      Also, I bore witness to the sexual side effects of intense porn use. But of course, I was the problem….My guess is that he continues his steady diet of porn, viagra, and alcohol to get through his miserable life. No doubt he also continues his habit of blaming his sex partner (wifetress) for any deficiencies in the bedroom. So glad to be away from that nightmare! Note: I was so deep into the abuse that I accepted the blame! I had to try harder!!! I think I’m more upset about the emotional abuse than I am about the affair. Or not. I don’t know. It’s hard to tease out what’s what from that painful jumble. I just know that he made me feel inadequate in so many ways. And for that I will never forgive him.

      I think porn made him–an incredibly shy, vulnerable narcissist–feel powerful and in control. He got the sense that all women are here to please him sexually. The “jump” from online porn sex to in-person sex probably didn’t seem like a big deal. Click! Click! Refresh page.

      • Spinach, did we lead parallel lives???
        Thank you for so succinctly putting into words that which I have difficulty expressing.

      • Yeah, it was my fault, too. I just didn’t have enough stamina to endure 1-2 hours of intercourse. Oh, and it didn’t count as sex unless he had an orgasm, and many times he didn’t. He actually told our MC that he though 4-5 hours PER DAY of penile stimulation was “reasonable”.

  • I know what you’re going through, JCC. I have the same story, even down to the Jesus cheating. We were married 29 years, together 33. He was on staff at our church. All the while, frequenting a massage parlor multiple times a week. And, as I came to find out later, picking up prostitutes off the street in the red light district. I have no doubt it was going on for most of our marriage.

    The massage parlor whore (MPW) was his favorite, as he’s actually married to her now and helping raise her son. She is also Chinese and like your fuckwit’s massage woman, I don’t believe she owns the massage parlors, but manages them for “family “. More than likely a Chinese crime syndicate. Believe me, I now know more about these Chinese massage parlors than I ever cared to know. I have no idea where her massage parlors are. When I first found out, I desperately wanted to know who she was and where the establishments were so that I could report them. But it’s like whack-a-mole trying to shut those places down. They shut one down and it just pops up somewhere else. As far as I know, she still works at the massage parlor. I hope he worries EVERY DAY about how many dicks she’s sucking.

    I believe your energies are best spent handling the things over which you do have immediate control.

    Get an STD test. I will never forget how humiliated I felt going in for an STD test after 34 years of what I thought was monogamous relationship. I consider it to be a miracle that I didn’t get an STD. Although I do wonder about an abnormal Pap test I had after about 10 years of marriage.

    Get yourself a damned good lawyer! I did. Worth every penny. I live in a no-fault state. But the lawyer was able to prove that he had liquidated one of our retirement accounts without my consent or knowledge to finance his extracurricular activities and to set up household with MPW after I kicked his ass out. I got the house and most of its contents, I kept my 401K and get his entire pension if he predeceases me. All in all, a pretty soft landing after the horrific shock of learning of his double life.

    My heart really does go out to you. It’s been three years for me since the shock of finding out about his betrayal and double life. I’m doing better now. But I remember those early days. It was terrible.

    Put on your warrior armor and prepare to fight for yourself and your daughter. There will be time to process and grieve later. Take good care… ❤️

    • I agree. After 33 yrs. Abnormal paps which the ex blamed on my cancer history. Abnormal bleeding that I was referred to a specialist while the dr never stated what was abnormal. I’m still angry. When they ask how many partners you have due to the high level of the test and the nurse looks uncomfortable as I state, “ only one. I’m married.” The joke was on me.

    • “With any luck, you’ll see his face in a line-up some day…”

      This is a very real possibility for me. I won’t go into any detail because it is a sordid and scary situation, but I know he was/is a person of interest in a crime relating to his relationships with prostitutes. I’m still somewhat fearful of seeing his face on the news someday.

      I’m very glad I went back to my maiden name.

  • Whenever people complain about CL being too “hard” on cheaters I read articles like these and think she’s not nearly hard enough. 38 years? My God JCC my heart cries for you. Here I was crying about the 4 years I’ve been chumped…wow. I pray for your healing. Hope you’re able to find joy and happiness after dumping him. CN is here for you! ((((Hugs))))

  • Dear JCC, I’m so very sorry you’ve been handed this Twilight Zone double life sh-t sandwich. CL is right call the hotline asap and then walk away. I spent close to 5 years trying to alert authorities, report the prostitution, getting restraining orders etc when the whores came after me – my 30 year marriage was to a fraud with a hidden hooker habit and he came running to me for help when he dipped his magic wand in a real psychopathic whore. What I learned was that no one cares- the system is corrupt- the cops visit the whores more than the fkwit johns – it’s a hideous cycle and the best thing you can do is walk away. It gets dark and dangerous with crazy pimps, drug dealers, independent whores, street walkers, dirty cops. Save yourself the heartache. Report it to the hotline and move forward knowing 1/2 your marriage was real – your half. You are not alone – I kept an immaculate house, made good money, ironed my pillow cases, ( seriously), loved my dogs, was generous making meals and entertaining the in-laws, I never spent money, etc —- all while he laid with whores on dirty sheets blowing through money. Husband who turn out to be Frauds – it’s frightening. Good luck to you.

    • It is scary when one finds out they have been the victim of fraud for years.

      My FW as far as I know only used amateur whores, they got their pay in gifts, and help with rent and other bills. (I had the credit card statements to prove it)

      But to find out half my 21 year marriage he was handing over sorely needed family money to these whores just about did me in. I was lucky in that It was in a time when a good lawyer was affordable, even for me on minimum wage.

      I could have recouped more money by taking three years of temp maintenance; but then I would have only been legally separated for three years, and I knew instinctively that I needed to sever the legal ties. I ended up with just one year. Six months that I requested, then another six months that he requested. (I have no idea why he wanted to delay it).

      When I think of my young years I only include the times with my son and other family and friends.

      • “When I think of my young years I only include the times with my son and other family and friends.”

        Yeah, I do the same, Susie Lee. Or at least try. Except for some unwanted appearances in my waking and sleeping house (like when I see a Jeep), he’s out of the picture. Dead to me. And certainly not in any pleasant memories.

        It’s so painful to realize that while you scrimped and saved he was using marital assets on other women. It’s yet another sign of an FW’s sense of entitlement and complete disrespect of a spouse. No one should be treated that way. But here we are.

        • One horrible realization I had was that my ex used to complain about my weekly bottle of wine. He said it was expensive- $15. Once I found out how much he was spending of hookers and hook ups I nearly threw up at all the times he made me feel bad for my pinot noir treat. And, of course, he drank it with me.

  • The term “massage parlors” is far too benign. Use your words. They’re brothels. Whorehouses.

    Also, a friendly reminder: Pornography is trafficking as well and using it as a masturbation aid diverts resources that belong to the primary relationship. This is infidelity/abuse.

    Also “the sacred right to jizz.” Love it!

    • I agree 💯 with this. I tried telling my ex that him jizzing secretly to porn all the time was cheating. He said he had to because I wasn’t having sex with him. I was shocked. I said back that he wasn’t having sex with me because he was jerking off to porn instead. We had this fight for years until he finally said that I was too vanilla for him. I couldn’t compete with the porn and the hookers!

      • As a rule, women hatehatehate pornography. Yes, there are exceptions and some of them undoubtedly are reading this comment. But at some atavistic, hard-wired level women choose mates expecting they will share their resources with us, and we know it’s bad news when a disposable 17-year-old Bulgarian girl’s smooth butt cheeks get between us and our beloveds.

  • My FW was using the dark web to find prostitutes and Asian massage parlor type places, but he insists just looking those places up was enough of a turn on for him and that he didn’t need to escalate it to buying their services (said it was an escalation of his porn addiction that was “awful” but didn’t result in physical sex.) I didn’t see any hard evidence that he’d purchased sex and he has leaned all the way into that fact to gaslight me and tell me he never slept with hookers or got a happy ending and that I’m a bully for calling him a liar. I truly don’t believe him at all, and the details in this article are reinforcing to me that he’s lying and was probably was seeing (Asian) hookers (I live near the Bay Area in CA, so definitely not out of the question.) He’s a white guy but says he’s never going to marry a “white princess” like me ever again and that Asian women are “raised with better values.” I feel like that much fetishization of Asian women is either porn related or hooker related, probably both, but somehow I’m feeling this sense of “Yeeees, I’m not crazy after all…” reading this letter. OP, definitely call the Human Trafficking line!

    • ” … Asian women are ‘raised with better values.’ ”

      Oh boy, he sounds like a winner.

      I used to live near a large company that employs an unusually high number of socially inept, pot-bellied neckbeards. Near the company plant are a good handful of storefront “law offices” offering immigration services.

      Those immigration services were largely about taking thousands and thousands of dollars from the neckbeards to purchase east Asian women for importation and “marriage.” Once in awhile one of the neckbeards would fly overseas to evaluate before committing to the purchase of the livestock–er, meet the brides-to-be and their sellers–er, families. You cannot imagine how much bitching and moaning the neckbeards would do if the livestock failed to exhibit the attitude expected from an east Asian female. Unfortunately for the neckbeard, by the time he was admitted to the company of an openly rebellious or contemptuous bride-to-be, he couldn’t get a refund. I used to chuckle thinking what life would be like chez neckbeard once the little woman started bringing over Mama and Daddy, sisters, cousins, and the rest of the extended family.

      That is, if he didn’t murder her first.

    • @Mowmowface

      Yes!
      I got the “I’m just looking at it.
      I was curious.” Shit explanation.
      Then how do you explain cash withdrawals of $400, texts and phone calls to sex workers, and texts confirming arrival???
      “It’s not what you think.”
      You know what he finally told me? He was “drinking” with them. Gaslighting at its finest.
      And it’s the ethical use that really bothers me, that FW is the type of person who thinks it’s okay to purchase women on a per use basis. It makes me sick that that’s how far he’s dehumanized women.

  • and STOP telling him what you know, what you might do, etc. Don’t share information about anything because all he’s doing in every conversation with you is gathering information to better position himself.

  • If you’re think it’s a possibility of getting people at the massage parlor to testify, calling/reporting the business might best be done after you get your legal ducks in a row.

  • In addition to all of the great advice from CL and on this thread, I suggest going stone cold silent with this dirtbag until you slap him with divorce papers. Make like you’re still trying to process everything to him, all the while be gathering evidence, contacting a lawyer and drafting papers, opening new accounts in your name only, finding a temporary place to stay (if needed) to bot have to live with him, determining what you want (asset wise) and figuring out the best way to get it, etc. Essentially, when he gets served, he’ll still be at the starting line, but you want to be halfway through with the race already.

    And fully expect him to freak out…they always do. Most of these guys go through some initial shock-and-faux-remorse phase where they try and save the marriage to avoid consequences…if you’re smart (unlike me) you’ll use that to your advantage and get him to sign the papers you want him to sign ASAP before the “saving the marriage” phase turns into the “rage against you the terrible wife” phase. Best of luck!

  • “But here’s a radical thought — why not chuck The Almighty Right to Jizz? Why is sex on demand unquestioned? Imagine a world in which creepy old Jesus cheaters like your husband cannot buy Asian teenagers by the hour.

    Imagine a world in which they’d have to woo age-appropriate partners, reciprocate, make conversation, or up their bedroom skills! Or even (shudder) go without.”

    Preach!

  • Okay. This one hurts. This happened to me (see my letter to Chump Lady, Dead Cheater Dilemma” back in June of 2018).

    Four years later I’m (mostly) healed thanks to time, therapy, my fabulous adult kids, my wonderfully supportive army of friends, Chump Lady, Chardonnay and dark chocolate.

    My husband and I were best friends, high school sweethearts and were together 40 years. I found out about his massage parlor visits (and his gambling compulsion and strip club/lap dance habit) a few weeks after he *died* suddenly.

    It was a special kind of hell. I look back now and cannot believe I got through it. He was one of those “good guys” who left absolutely no clue about what he was doing. We had what I had thought was a strong, loving marriage. Everyone was confident and complimentary about him and our strong bond for decades. He was unbelievably deceitful and duplicitous.

    And yes, like these comments say, besides “just” being cheated on, I had to deal with the fact that my ‘great, supportive, feminist’ husband was literally buying women’s bodies for his own enjoyment. An incredible mind f*ck. I almost could have understood him being attracted to another woman and falling for her. But this was simply a “lie back and enjoy it” moment for him. Which of course, after I thought about it more, made perfect sense: he wouldn’t have actually wanted to put forth the effort to woo and court and charm a woman and have to actually work at another relationship. This was the ultimate in entitlement and he thought he “deserved it” (a phrase he actually used once when we were discussing how taxing and time-consuming creating Christmas and filling everyone’s stocking had become for me and I decided one year to skip doing the stockings).

    It’s almost laughable, how I didn’t see his condescending, casual sexism (I found out once that he had a secret credit card – which I made him get rid of, and once in public he *patted me on the head* and told me not to worry about it, when I questioned him about the cost of an ultra-expensive bike he was about to buy.

    I thought I was a strong person. But I wasn’t.

    But boy, I am now. Thanks to Chump Lady and everyone here for getting me through this.

  • Please print to pdf every bank and credit card statement going back at least 7 years. Then save to pdf ALL of your cell phone records going back at least 7 years. See if he has a burner phone and get it. Take screenshots and email them to yourself. Get photos the same way. Then look up Mazique v. Mazique – in appellate court. Harris county/Houston TX. In my case, once I presented my Mazique claims for funds spent on a third party without my knowledge or consent, it was HIS JOB to disprove it. Talk to a lawyer. I got $80,000 for FW’s adventures with mistresses.

  • Great post CL! It’s also very triggering for me on many levels. My ex FW confessed to me on DDay that…he went to sex clubs, then he bought hookers then, well, that was all getting old so he decided to take on a permanent side piece/sex slave. I asked him how much hookers cost, and he quickly retorted, $400. It just rolled off the tongue. It’s legal where I live. Things got messy with some of them. He had relationships, but they were all desperate and lacked boundaries, he said casually. This has gone on for most of our 25 years together. His solution to all the mayhem was a permanent girlfriend with whom he could abuse with his sadism. When I found his sex gear, it was all violence in a bag. It was horrific. The main part of my PTSD is the thought of what he did to those poor women he paid for (with our marital money), while he sat there at nights with me and our daughter, happily laughing and chatting during the meal I made. It makes me break into a cold sweat. With my lawyer, we calculated that twice a month over the years he confessed to, it totaled $100k. This is only the sex-not the whole sex gear, clothing, gifts, nights out, hotels and whatever else he spent our money on. When it came for asking for it back in mediation, he claimed I was a liar and that I had no proof, and he’s right-I didn’t. It was only his verbal confession and the way he pilfered cash wasn’t discoverable.I tried but I really didn’t have the proof. In this country, shit like that is considered something like “foibles of a marriage.” She buys make up and shoes, he buys hookers. She hides her shoes, he hides his hookers. I kid you not. The seething injustice I feel eats me alive when I let it. I have to look at my financial loss as my ticket to freedom, otherwise it will kill me. I hate my ex husband more than I can say. He touted himself a feminist, meanwhile sadistically hurting them for his sexual pleasure and then throwing our marital money at them. I read Paid For as well and along with my husband’s sick shit, it changed my mind about prostitution forever. I was a big feminist supporter of it until I became a victim of the abuse.

    • Formerly, I don’t know if you will see this, but I am so sorry. I feel your pain. I so wish you and so many of us hadn’t been victimized by such piles of shit who we thought were humans who cared. They didn’t. And that is crushing. I hope you can find some joy and love in your life. I know how crushing it is. Will we ever get past it and live a calm life? I don’t know. For me, it’s been 25 years of pain. So tired. Take care.

  • Thank you everyone for your comments and encouragement. Looking forward to a FW free life with my daughter.

  • Missed yesterday’s post, but how appropriate that it was my ex husband’s birthday and this gem came up. He was a patron of massage parlors and lord knows what else in the pay-for-sex realm. I got tested and then tested again years later our of fear of some sort of dormant infection. Absolutely despicable what these assholes will do to someone else rather than be honest. For a fucking paid-for orgasm. UGH.

  • I am so sorry JCC. This was my life about 8 years ago. I actually found my ex at the massage parlor using “Find My iPhone” and parked my car behind him and waited for him to come out. My world came crashing down that down that day but a lot about his heinous behavior over the years finally made sense. What I want to tell you is that first and foremost, you need to focus on YOURSELF and you’re wellbeing-not the sex trafficking. Yes, submit the info you found on the massage parlor to the police or human trafficking outlets and let it go. Do not be surprised if nothing happens…..ask me how I know. But as I said, your main concern is YOU! Please go get screened for STD’s immediately. Stop talking to the cheater. There is nothing to work with there. AND the shame is NOT yours to bear. He is the scumbag with no morals. Do not stay with someone until they end up getting arrested for being a John or a rapist in the future. You will never know the depth of a cheater’s depravity….what you know is only the tip of the iceberg. Your main goal is to get out as fast as possible with the best settlement possible. Get the best pitbull lawyer you can afford. Please read and listen to the great community of people here who have made it out of this cheating hell & survived-and even prospered. They are an incredible source of information. Go grey rock as much as you can while lining up your ducks and getting an attorney. I have credited this blog many times for saving my life and refer everyone I know who has been cheated on to this site & Tracy’s book. I started my journey 8 years ago as a stay at home mom chump feeling hopeless and stranded…..today, I am strong, happy and my son and I have a great life.

  • I have a question for the group. I found out my ex was living a secret life – online nude profiles, looking for sex with a couple (straight male). He was planning to leave me and I received a gift – all his emails downloaded. I learned that he had been having online connections with women our entire marriage – 17 years. Saying he loved some. One – 30 years his junior – he manipulated to do dangerous things and report back. He seemed to thrive on this. One site he is on – I have no doubt some women are doing things they wouldn’t do of free will. He has his new partner tied up on our bed with graphic photos. His profile says he has found the love of his life who wants to be shared. I know this is a professional woman with grown kids. His profile also says he is still looking for erotic chat and a f*** buddy. I would think maybe the woman isn’t aware of the postings. Faces are blanked out. Can anyone comment what they think is going on here? I haven’t missed him a day after I found all this out. I was repelled. Is he sick? I am horrified what some men do to women.

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