Any Regrets Leaving a Cheater?
Any regrets leaving a cheater? I was on this HuffPo Twitter Space panel about toxic relationships. The moderator asked therapist Virginia Gilbert, my co-panelist, if whether or not toxic people can change.
Gilbert made a distinction between abusive people and toxic people. Abusive people? Don’t bother, get professional help to escape. She said that with toxic people, if both people in the relationship are committed to behavioral change, it can work.
It was the end of the segment, and there was much I wanted to unpack. Like, the whole attachment style thing… how “anxious” people chase “avoidant” people.
Okay, how about normal people BOND. And when the people they bond with act sketchy, it’s pretty predictable that the person who cares will become anxious.
Why bother with a toxic person?
But I’m quibbling. My bigger issue is WHY BOTHER with whatever flavor of fucked up a toxic person is? You have one precious life. Why waste it on someone who treats you terribly? Leaving a cheater is the saner path. Unicorn sightings are rare.
Also, as a few bazillion of us can attest to — a lot of disordered partners feign interest in therapy as the price of avoiding consequences. You think you’ve got a unicorn, until you don’t. Or maybe you do, (color me skeptical) but the damage is done and you need to move on.
(If you want a deeper dive on this, you can read my whole diatribe on reconciliation and entitlement. I think a lot of what we deem toxic is driven by the power dynamics of maintaining one’s entitlement. Healthy relationships, by contrast, aren’t competitions or predatory. They’re reciprocal and respectful.)
No one regrets leaving a cheater
On the panel I made the claim that in running this blog for 10 years, and the millions of unique visitors and comments — no one has ever regretted leaving a cheater.
I mean, we’re one hell of a data sample.
You could argue, this place is self selecting. Says LEAVE right there on the tag line. But I would counter that the vast majority of chumps tried reconciliation first. And even if they didn’t leave, and were left, they probably spent a lot of time trying to get their partner to be more fully invested. Chumps are all in.
The refrain I hear again and again is: “I wish I left sooner. I wish I had that time back.”
Where are the unicorns hiding?
Also, where is the site with millions of people who are with reformed toxic people and their life is better for it? The reconciliation boards I know are full of twitchy, hypervigiliant folks with trust issues.
Oh, they’re just all happy, quietly living in their new and improved marriages, Tracy.
Uh huh. Okay. The unicorns have invisibility cloaks too.
So, anywho… my Friday Challenge question to you is — any regrets about leaving a cheater?
You might regret the wake of their fuckupedness. The financial toll. The scary life rebuilding. But the person themselves and how they treated you? Do you miss it?
On the fence? You might find this a useful read.
Zero regrets.
Only wish I had known the truth years before so I could have dumped him instead of him using me up and then dumping me.
I don’t see any difference between toxic and abusive…both are best left behind in your dust.
Exactly Rebecca, both are awful types. Why would anyone want either?
Are you KIDDING ME? ????
Not only am I happier, healthier, smarter, and better off financially – I am also now absolutely committed to singlehood.
Not ‘being alone’ – being with many others.
Not ‘not in a relationship’ – in many good and different relationships on lots of levels.
Everything is better. In fact, I think the friendship detox was almost more important than the cheater detox.
So true. Trauma can be like a sewage processing plant for filtering out crappy or toxic friends. If traumatic experience doesn’t turn people into something as bad as what was done to them, it can either make people mushily grovel for safety by morphing their views to fit whatever context they’re in or it can forge “rugged individualists” and realists who won’t/can’t squeeze themselves into acceptable shapes.
I’m not quite there yet because it still unsettles me to feel at odds in some social contexts. At this point I actually wish I could fake fitting in a little more often just to reduce friction and I try to pick my battles. If I get involved in advocacy, I tend to keep it contained to that arena, otherwise I’m over trying to change hearts and minds in random social situations. But I think those not-so-mainstream attitudes leak out in other ways, like not smiling and nodding heartily when, say, some dork at a garden party starts regurgitating some repulsive little victim-blamey concept they heard on a TED Talk or whatever.
It doesn’t matter which victims are being unfairly blamed or which perpetrators are being given a pass, it bothers me to hear views like that and it probably shows. I’m sensitive to making people uncomfortable but I can’t help thinking what I think anymore and knowing what I know. One good friend still laughs about a quip I made a while back about how the “wrong sort” takes one look at the books in my bookcase and runs screaming. The upside is that you can end up surrounded mostly with like-minded people who turn out to be far more reliable when shit hits the fan as it periodically will in life. That’s gold. I don’t “thank” trauma for that upside nor the crappy people who serve up negative experiences. I just thank the existence of seasoned people who make the process less unbearable.
Thanks HOC. I love the second sentence.
I am going through friendship detox now – it sucks and it’s painful but I’m sure I will end up better and healthier on the other side. For me it was realizing that just like in my marriage, my friendships were almost never reciprocal.
I always reached out to them. If they ever called it was because they needed a favor, or wanted me to use my professional skills for them for free. This came into particular focus when I had an illness during my divorce and no one checked in on me or asked how I was doing.
So I stopped calling and texting and guess what – crickets. I am trying to learn that they suck, that it has nothing to do with me or my worth. Just like I KNOW I was a good wife, I was a good friend too.
I am completely isolated now, but I have hope it won’t always be this way.
Sure understand and relate to the need to drop certain people from one’s life. Having moved to a different state I miss old friends and feel isolated do to the remoteness. Someone mentioned wishing us Chumps had a way to meet one another. I don’t mind being a loner but it’s nice to make new friends as well.
It’s the righteous path, even if it’s tough. I always think about things my Grandma used to say me to me, “you only really need one good friend” and also “it’s ok to be a lone wolf.” Because I ditched non-reciprocal friendships (or I should say, they ditched themselves when I stopped making the effort) and friendships with people who repeatedly make painful life choices (I no longer wanted front row seats to dysfunction), I found my friend list to be quite short. And, most of them are scattered all over the U.S. But, it’s forced me to be more proactive and concerted with my remaining close friendships, which is really great, and it’s given me more time for the relationships that I actually cherish.
All this to say, it’s far better having one real friend then ten fake ones…even if that friend lives hundreds of miles away.
It’s so hard to make friends later in life. I wish there was some way the members of Chump Nation could connect IRL.
I feel the same way Acta. People on here are special and it’s so hard to find people like that IRL.
Oh it won’t always be this way. As you’ve gotten rid of the sycophants, you’ll slowly open your eyes to seeing people for who they are – warts and all. At least that was my experience. I was able to see through a lot of the self boasting, the flattering, the meaningless of people who are all concerned about themselves (not others). They’re concerned with how others see them, rather than worrying about being the best persons that they can be. I decided that I’d rather have nobody in my life than have to go through the nonsense of being with liars and cheaters again. Once I learned to love myself, warts and all, I was able to see others – warts and all. And the good ones popped out. I’m happy and someday you will be too.
I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the friendship detox being almost more important than the cheater detox, if/when you have some time.
Thank you, Jupiter! I think if you read the other responses here, you’ll see what I mean.
Sometimes the friendship detox takes place by accident as a result of leaving the cheater. You find out who your real friends are.
But there can be a subsequent process as you gain a life. As you get your mojo back and heal from abuse, it’s quite common to discover that a lot of your ‘friendships’ were what Chump Lady once called ‘bargain bin’.
They were not reciprocal. They were based on convenience rather than active choice. You weren’t valued for who you were.
And that’s because your whole life had been marred by this sort of bargain-bin relationship, starting with your family of origin.
So it’s a really healthy and helpful process. I am wordy/nerdy and pretty introverted in real life, and I don’t make friends easily. But I now use this to help me screen out the superficial people.
As you regain your life after the terrible hurts you’ve lived through, you may find that you’re also more discerning about who you spend your precious time with.
I cut SO MANY people out of my life who I thought were my friends. They all sided with cheater ex, embraced OW, completely dropped me, and many believed FW’s lies about me in spite of having known me for over a decade. Not ONE of them ever checked on me to see if I was okay. Not ONE of them asked my side of the story. Not ONE of them expressed sympathy. Several of them stalked me and spied on my social media, taking screenshots and sending them to my abuser. Once I found out about that, I cleaned house, removing EVERY mutual friend from every social media platform (in fact, I stopped using social media at all for about a year). My life is the better for it. We were involved in the local arts scene and most of those “friends” were actors, writers, and musicians, who thought that FW could help them in their careers, and so naturally they would do whatever to stay in his good graces; I was irrelevant once I was out of favor with him. They were just using him and he couldn’t see it. But he was using them too. They were transactional relationships, not friendships. When he was going through depression and then when he killed himself, none of those people were anywhere to be found (though they showed up in droves to his funeral). At least one of them knew he had made previous attempts, and didn’t tell me or anyone who might have helped. I don’t want anything to do with people like that.
I had one good friend, who was not a mutual friend of FW (he couldn’t stand her), who stuck by me through all of it. She’s still my best friend. And oddly, FW’s sister has been a really good friend. I would rather have a small group of real friends, good people, honest people, than scads of fair weather friends. It is very eye opening to go through a discard/divorce. You definitely find out who your real friends are. It hurts, but I’m glad I know. I am much more discerning about who I associate with now.
I had a similar experience, nobody even asked me if I was ok. If someone I work with whom I don’t like is going through a divorce I even ask them if they’re ok and how they’re holding up. Friends of 20 years, including family and a kid I raised in my home for six years of his childhood wouldn’t even treat me as well as I treat a coworker I dislike. There’s a kick in the bits. No clue what he said about me to people but it worked so well they didn’t even care to ask me what happened.
I completely agree with you that it hurts but I’m glad I know. I’m also much pickier about my friends now. I see it as a hard but valuable lesson.
A child we took care of for over 4 years, FWs nephew, who FW left with me when he left, told me off one day – said no one likes me and is tired of hearing about what FW did to you. I said call your uncle and pack your things. Best thing I ever did.
your story is my story- exhole was in theatre, I’m a visual artist. Very different sort of exposures and relationships- but he benfited from mine. I didnt benefit at all from his so-called friends. You nailed it right here: “We were involved in the local arts scene and most of those “friends” were actors, writers, and musicians, who thought that FW could help them in their careers, and so naturally they would do whatever to stay in his good graces; I was irrelevant once I was out of favor with him. They were just using him and he couldn’t see it. But he was using them too. They were transactional relationships, not friendships”. 10 years of those theatre friends and events and parties- not one of them contacted me about what happened. Perhaps because theatre is a mask- for screwing each other during those “intense” production schedules. So much fake togetherness… Lucky for me I had a few great friends some now for 40 years
oops I mean 20 years of that theatre crowd. When I look back it’s kind of a big yawn
“those “friends” were actors, writers, and musicians”
Unfortunately, a good number of people that gravitate to the entertainment industry are phony superficial twits. Small loss.
I think, because they need so much external validation, FWs often seek many “friends” but can’t distinguish between friends and acquaintances. My STBX had zillions of acquaintances but very few true friends, and none that he saw more than once or twice a year.
A lot of my ex’s friends weren’t even in person relationships. So many comments on his obituary were things like “I never had the pleasure of meeting him in real life, but we were friends online and had many conversations”. It was much easier for my ex to come across as a “good guy” from a distance.
FooledAgain,
You are the first one who has posted this similar experience. When my ex left me, I asked him if he was worried his old high school friends would think less of him. He replied, “If they do, I have other friends everywhere.” His other friends, however, were work colleagues he’d see at conferences. They were not people he shared his thoughts with or seeked their advice. They were drinking colleagues at conferences. He never had a lot of “friends”. Even his high school buddies he saw maybe once ever other year. My FW was also unable to distinguish between friendship and acquaintances.
I have no regrets. The cost financially in my 60’s is pretty big. The emotional toll was enormous but I got through it (Thanks Tracy). Living in a hyper vigilant state for years and not being aware until it was over is an eye opener. You don’t know how bad it was until you’re out and healing.
So true, Spoonriver. I was 53. Financially tough. But now, 4 yrs divorced, I’m still regularly surprised by how peaceful my life is. He was SO defensive that I couldn’t even say “how was your day” without running the risk of him telling me to shut up.
Now days, I have my adult daughters around and my two sons and life is simply lovely.
Agreed, Spoonriver. I’m almost 70 years old and these past two years have taken a toll on both my mental health, but physical as well. Never, ever again will I set myself on fire to keep another person warm. Especially a TOXIC ABUSER. My spiritual guide, Great Universal Spirit (GUS), takes the burden from me when I’m overwhelmed or sad or discouraged. Giving in to the reality of being deceived has come in fits and starts. A never ending process of discarding ideas of what I’m NOT, keeps pointing me in the direction of what I CAN see that I already AM, which is a human born with worthiness and intuitive wisdom that can be trusted. All my emotional scars are transforming into invisible tattoos of self confidence and a thicker skin amongst the deranged. Slowly.
My parents expected their children to act like adults from birth. Constant shame, ( Should Have Already Mastered Everything), can kill hope and joy and confidence. It is truly a miracle children survive at all in this dysfunction. Gold metals to us all for navigating the FW agility course and hurdles of abuse. No regret in saving myself. None.
,
I wish to know GUS better. Thank you for the intro.
I love this comment CC. The never ending process of discarding ideas of what we are not, and the invisible tattoos. I feel this.
NO REGERTS!
I neither have regrets nor regerts.
Good one!
Oh God no!
By the time our marriage ended she didn’t resemble the woman I married so much as Medusa.
For a while I did miss the dream I had about what our marriage could be, but that dried up and blew away. Dust in the wind.
My life is so much h better now.
Good for you! Even 5+ years out, I still miss the dream of being with the father of my child till the end of days. I mean, I DO NOT want to be with my ex, but I really bought into the whole “one love one life” concept that everyone likes to pretend is realistic en masse. I still grieve that loss, a little. But, it is what it is and we can’t all get everything in life and it’s ok to live a life that not everyone understands. It’s disappointing tho that after all these years, I’m still not totally deprogrammed from that concept.
No! After 3 wreckconciliations instigated by EX over a year did I file when he quit his 6 figure job and moved in with the whore. THEN I finally found LACGAL. Ohmyohmy……my eyes were open to what I was dealing with and finally answers and clarity! I wasted many years and money not understanding what was happening…..38 year marriage. So sorry I did not find ChumpLady earlier in my process….saved my sanity. I give the book to strangers when they share their similar stories. ???????????? to Tracy
No regrets about leaving, nor the timing. My only regret is that I didn’t trust myself. He really was as bad as I thought…even more so in the end. I would have used my time and resources in the marriage differently and been better prepared to leave without being financially dependent on him and ultimately financially abused. But absolutely no regrets about leaving; i have a wonderful life now. ????
Mighty Mite , when one is caught up in a mind grinder it is difficult to be prepared until much damage has occurred . We want to believe we want to hope but it never comes to fruition. I knew from before We were married their were red flags, I knew after we were married there was constant flirting, lies, stealing, lies by omission . What I never understood was how manipulating, clever, calculating, and haunting my Ex and 100% Narcissistic sociopath abuser serial cheater was until the very end . Stood by this man 20T years. There were mile stone together and laughs , actual fun times but so much was a lie. I think so many of us here fight for what we want to believe in a person and it can be hard to let go of that hope. But now looking back, my gut told me run from the very beginning and I should have but no, I love our Son .
My FW cleaned me out financially with the divorce. Sometimes I wish I could have stayed long enough to get a post nup and catch her again. But I could barely stand to even look at her after D-Day, I was just too angry to pull that off.
That is the shitty thing about being the bread winner and a chump. They cheat and get paid or it. It is tough to get past that double penalty.
Yes, happened to me too. It’s like the state punished you for bettering yourself. I’m medical also, FNP in ED. The thing is: we did it to benefit our family.
A dear friend who’s a full time mom in a no fault state came very close to getting nothing from her wealthy XFW. By the skin of her teeth she got some support but only until her child is 18. I was appalled. Furthermore I asked her how having solid evidence that this guy regularly went to hookers, stole assets, was exposed for lying about assets in court and appeared constantly drunk and drugged in front of their child didn’t stop him from getting 50% custody. She just wearily told the story of a friend who spent a quarter million to keep her ex– who’d been busted for dv and terrorist threat– from taking custody. Then the child developed a disability and the ex wanted nothing to do with the child. She said, “It’s Chinatown, Jake.”
That happened to me too. My lawyer, her lawyer, court fees, and my worthless ex wife turned the whole thing into a cash grab from me. It’s not like I was really well off to begin with, but the leeches found something to latch onto. I really would like to see some sort of divorce reform so future chumps don’t have to experience what we went through.
That recently happened to me as well. There really needs to be a reform in states that are no-fault. But in the end you can’t put a price on happiness.
The flip side is many chumps are not the breadwinners. The FW feels more entitled – “I’m the breadwinner; I deserve all the kibbles!” – and the chump is powerless to walk away immediately without a lot of scrimping pennies just to get an attorney consult. I think I would rather be the breadwinner and hand over half of everything just to get out quickly than the non-breadwinner chump who is stuck longer – often years – trying to rub two nickels together to get out. Breadwinner FWs are notoriously good at hiding assets, too.
I agree, though. Cheaters shouldn’t prosper. I wish the system was more fair. But given the choice, I would rather be in the position to give up money than to lose time being tethered to a FW.
Disagree 100% about wishing to be bread winner and to give half to FW just to get her out. I worked my ass off while she was cheating. I continued to work while going through Chemo for lymphoma and she was cheating while I was at The chemo appointments!
The income of men reportedly goes up significantly on average after divorce. That might not always be the case for chumped men in general if you factor the obvious aggression of she-cheaters, their clearly established capacity to lie to get what they want, maybe the tendency to have been bilking assets all along. She-cheaters might be trickier opponents in divorce than average women in other words. Otherwise the incomes of women tend to plummet after divorce. A study from Germany notes that German culture still favors men in the workforce and stay-at-home mothers so the results might be seen to be affected by the economic impact of divorce on non-bread-winning women. In any case, while health and social effects of divorce are about the same for both genders, many women risk permanent economic hardship or poverty following divorce. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5992251/
Totally agree, all. I was lucky to be in a fault state where adultery impacts settlement and to have rock solid evidence. But things like this shouldn’t depend on luck and I have a legislative wish list.
— That coercive control laws become more universal and that many of the rankly abusive behaviors typically involved in cheating were recognized as forms of it.
–If found guilty of coercive control, the culpable party would be automatically penalized in divorce. Bring back fault divorce in other words, at least in terms of abuse. If you cheat, you’ll end up financially screwed and the victim will either retain or acquire the lion’s share of assets if not all.
— That enforcement of coercive control laws (where they exist) could be improved and tightened up so that these policies could not be wrongly used by abusers to punish victims who are trying to protect themselves (i.e., that someone who’s been demonstrably controlled and abused checking an abuser’s phone for proof of abuse is not the same as stalking, etc.).
— If a chump gets an STD from a partner’s cheating that the cheater would be legally compelled to pay for costs and hardship as well as name any parties involved who would in turn be compelled by law to get checked for STDs and, if positive for antibodies or active infection, to compensate the victim. Compensation x 2.
— This last one might not be legislatable for reasons I’m not yet informed about but I’d like to see schmoopies made civilly liable for any marital assets they accept in the form of gifts or amenities under the same laws related to receiving stolen property– meaning that the receiver can’t use the defense that they “didn’t “know property was stolen.” At the very least they’re going to have to pay it back anyway so it would behoove anyone starting a relationship to figure out whether the partner was married or not.
One can dream.
I regret not leaving sooner.
My regrets relate to the following:
Firstly, I regret not finding a way out much sooner; before the kids discovered her infidelity her behaviour was already what I now know to be abusive … if I could have figured out a way for the kids and I to leave – rather than waiting for her to leave us – then I would have.
Secondly, I regret not seeking mental health support for myself and my kids much earlier than I did. Male Chumps, in particular, need to confront the stigmas associated with mental health and get the support they and their kids need before issues become crises.
Thirdly, I regret not separating our finances earlier. In fact, scratch that; the mistake was joining our finances in the first place, as I now know that she was steal from me at least a decade before her infidelity came to light …. and I should also have made sure that I was the trustee on our childrens’ savings accounts rather than her, as she emptied those too.
But do I regret that she’s gone to live her happy sparkly life with her AP? Hell no; neither I nor our kids have missed her for a millisecond.
LFTT
Wish I had left after Dday ONE. Stayed for 15 more years till the spackle fell off. I DID get an extra kid out of it, but I wish I had left the day after conception of that one (which would have saved me 14 years of abuse and my kids from the whole nightmare). what a waste. Had a reconciliation therapist and fell for the party line. Never again. Agree that abuse and toxic behavior are BOTH things I want to get the hell away from and glad I finally did! Just existing in my house without him is a pleasure.
“Just existing in my house without him is a pleasure.” Yes.
My would-be 40th wedding anniversary is in two days. On our 35th anniversary I said to myself, “This is the last one.” By the 36th one, I was living on my own, and only months away from the divorce being final.
So: four years since I left.
Here’s what I find astounding: Despite being married to my ex for 35 years (and adding in the half dozen or so years we were involved before we married), I don’t miss one thing about him.
Furthermore, despite the drama/trauma, which felt to me as if it had been etched into me with acid, my marriage feels like distant history, or as if I read it in a book instead of having actually lived it. Yet throughout those decades the drama and trauma of life with my ex felt as if had been etched into me with acid. I find this so astounding, in fact, that I have occasionally wondered whether there is something wrong with my brain and I have dementia!
Adelante, my time line is about that same as yours for marriage – 36 years, but divorced 1 full year.
I too have been in awe that I don’t miss him. I guess he just didn’t bring anything positive to our marriage. I saw this void begin to happen around year 25, just when we could have been reconnecting in the shared accomplishment of our children launching & having more free time without little kids. I’m guessing that from year 25 to 35, I tried so hard with RIC and he tried so hard to cover up his secret life, that he truly became an adversary.
Why would I miss that?
Yes, same here after 30 year marriage. Going no contact, pushing away bad memories and doubting any good memories leaves almost nothing.
Wow. That is definitely something I would not have expected. I remember my years in high school feeling like they were going on forever and now I can’t remember most of my teachers’ names. I suppose it’s like that. The memories of some of the mortifying stuff fades and it becomes more compartmentalism’s compared to today. This gives this baby chump hope. I have long said I don’t want to spend the rest of my life defined by this awful marriage.
“Furthermore, despite the drama/trauma, which felt to me as if it had been etched into me with acid, my marriage feels like distant history, or as if I read it in a book instead of having actually lived it. Yet throughout those decades the drama and trauma of life with my ex felt as if had been etched into me with acid. I find this so astounding, in fact, that I have occasionally wondered whether there is something wrong with my brain and I have dementia!”
Reading this – wow- it’s life-changing to read it. I’m 10 years out of a 20 year ordeal, and yet I’ve felt the loss of that relationship as a loss, because I can’t remember anything (except some of the really bad times). Like, why did I stay if there were no good times. I know there were good times, but I can’t remember any. But the way you’ve described it here is sooo liberating! My marriage IS distant history, and I NO LONGER HAVE TO FEEL IT INSCRIBED IN MY BODY. A distant memory is a Good Thing! Maybe I’m not describing this properly. But the wounds scored into my body have healed, and you’ve put it into words, Adelante. Love Chump Nation!!! Right here is the ease and comfort and support mentioned at the beginning of the twitter cast.
Yes, this. I am also 10 years out from an over 20 yr ordeal and my brain is purging the “good” memories because I finally admitted to myself that every single good moment was lived knowing that the next insult, harsh critique or rage was right around the next corner.
He had an amazingly clever wit and could be SO funny. I went through a time of missing that but I eventually admitted to myself that he weaponized it against me. He responded to almost everything with this carefully crafted tone of voice which was indecipherable as to whether he was serious or joking. When there was a good outcome, he claimed his response was serious and the good outcome was his win. If there was a bad outcome, he claimed that his reaction was sarcastic and I should have known better thus the bad outcome was my fault. Also, and mean-ass insult he leveled against me was “just a joke…you dont have a very good sense of humor”.
I wish it all felt more distant. I likely ruminate on all of it too much.
Unicornnomore – oh my! That second paragraph. How many times I have heard by STBX say “I was just JOKING.” Grrrrrr!!! I likely ruminate too much as well. Thanks for sharing. It’s validating to read.
Unicornnomore,
I had a similar experience with my ex. He’d call it “teasing”. But, sometimes it was hurtful and other times I let it slide. If I let it slide, it was a sarcastic joke at my expense. If it was hurtful, I was too sensitive and he didn’t mean it that way. I wonder if this is another characteristic of covert narcissists. My ex always believed he was smarter and far superior to my sensitive and caring nature. In retrospect, he never had a caring bone in his body and I wish I left him in my thirties. I could have done so much and gone so far on my own. I’m fortunate to be rid of him now. His new wife?… not so much. I let him strip away the essense of who I was one sliver at a time. I gave up my dreams for his. I temporarily lost who I was but I’m trying to find that person again – and love her – for all her blessings and her faults.
I, too, likely ruminate on all of it too much. I’m four years out from divorce. Four and a half years out from D-day.
I relate to your comment, Duped.
sorry I worte Adelante- and I meant to be answering Unicornomore…
I realized that almost every Good Time we had, was one that I worked my ass off to choreograph, to work against his sulky mood, his desire for a perfect moment with him at the centre. And I pulled it off many times and felt that this was “success”- I had made him happy and provided a Family Moment (at my expense of course). There would have been very few good times if it hadn’t been for the energy and creativity that I put into it. And I learned this through CL- to cast back and look at those good times and what was the process that lead to those events.
Adelante- my ex-dixkhead was also very funny, very often at the expense of others. He also sat on the fence about everything. It was weird- you’d think after a long conversation about something, politics, or events, or people, that you’d arrived at a sort of consensus. Then he’d switch so as not to give any satisfaction on the point or whatever even casual thing we were talking about.. And ALWAYS he would be on the ‘right side of the fence’ because he didn’t commit himself except to the “winning” side (for the moment). But I no longer have to gnash my teeth about this stuff, or lose my own story (which he had started to tell for me “you think this, you said that, you’re funny that way”… I hated the feeling that he was going to define me and tell me my own history, change the pattern of what I beleived so that others saw me as he saw me….). sorry I am now ranting (I guess I am not QUITE free! ha!)
Yes, as I get further away… I realize the “good” we had in the marriage came from me and my efforts as well.
“The Body Keeps the Score” is worth the read, and I think you’re right: we no longer have to feel it inscribed in our bodies. Perhaps once the trauma lifts, the emotional content of the memories can disperse or float away. I certainly prefer that explanation to the onset of dementia and the idea that events can no longer be meaningful enough for me to form memories of them!
Don’t miss one thing … I totally get this! I, too, spent almost 4 decades with Cheating Bastard Ex. Outside of my comments here – written with the hope that if it helps just one person to find the strength to leave it is necessary to be said – he so rarely enters my thoughts that I’ve too wondered how it is that happened so quickly.
Do you suppose that maybe, just maybe, having a clear picture of how awful ALL of it it truly was helps keep our minds from revisiting it? I’m only a little over a year out, yet when I just now tried to conjure up a mental picture of what he looked like, it is foggy at best. And that suits me just fine.
It has crossed my mind that perhaps I’ve erected a mental barrier in order to protect myself. The hurt I felt in the early days was tremendous. But it’s also possible that having feeling all that hurt was part of processing the experience, and I no longer need to do it. I’m certainly grateful not to feel that tremendous pain any longer, even while I marvel that it all now seems so far away, or like a dream, or a story I once read, or, as VH says, “a mirage.”
My mental image became uglier and uglier as I unpacked the baggage over 3 years. I knew I was doing it and thought I had made his image uglier than him. But, when I ran into him this spring, he was uglier than my image! The thought then was that all the sh*t he spewed for years was finally showing up in his face.
“Furthermore, despite the drama/trauma, which felt to me as if it had been etched into me with acid, my marriage feels like distant history, or as if I read it in a book instead of having actually lived it. Yet throughout those decades the drama and trauma of life with my ex felt as if had been etched into me with acid. I find this so astounding, in fact, that I have occasionally wondered whether there is something wrong with my brain and I have dementia!“
Adelante, same here. I was just telling this to someone the other day. It feels like that part of my life never happened.
That’s why I say I didn’t have a marriage, I had a MIRAGE.
“Mirage” is the perfect way to describe both the marriage and the feeling afterwards. It wasn’t real while we were living it, although we thought it was, and now that it’s over, it has that shimmery transparent “is/was that real” feeling of a mirage.
I agree with you and Velvet Hammer. It’s an odd feeling. I know I lived with him for 35 years. And yet…and yet…I can hardly remember those decades. ???? A mirage, indeed!
And as for missing him? No. Not at all. Not one bit. One would think there would be one good thing about him that I might long for, even something as simple as a dish he made or some way he made me laugh. But I just can’t think of anything at all.
It’s not to say I have amnesia. I do remember certain things, and, of course, my kids figure prominently in these memories. Starring roles for those three!!! If x pops into a scene from the past, he makes only a cameo appearance.
Maybe my conscious brain is protecting me. I don’t know.
Adelante, I’ve ruled out dementia.????
Memory is highly connected to emotion. (Which is why a song or smell can bring a whole bunch of memories swooping back.) So once we’re well and truly out and living a peaceful life, after a few years it becomes difficult to connect to the grinding, miserable emotions the cheaters so often created. Many cheaters are classic narcs; critical, demanding, self-centered, never satisfied. Not fun to be around even when they aren’t cheating! Not experiencing those emotions anymore makes the situations and people connected to the emotions feel more distant, harder to remember clearly.
Also, we revise our memories a bit every time we recall them, so our new focus on, for example, the fun we had w/our kids on a certain family outing will gradually push out how unpleasant cheater was on that occasion. We can remember that if we stop to think, but it’s not intense and clear anymore.
Not dementia! But it DOES feel very odd! Like we have some kind of ‘theoretical’ recollection, but it was in another life …. This person was at the centre of our world for so many years, and now …. a footnote.
My pos cheater left in the middle of the night on our 10th wedding anniversary. He helpfully TEXTED me that he was moving into his girlfriend’s house and wanted a divorce. He still wanted to spend time with all three kids (16, 14 and 8 at the time) and that he would tell me the schedule he wanted later.
A fun time? Not at all. But I was SO beat down and exhausted from his emotional and financial abuse and basic lack of adulting skills that I now see him leaving as an amazing gift from the universe. I regret it so much that I didn’t leave. But I couldn’t, was too busy crying and pick me dancing. Either way his absence has given me the gift of peace and healing. And it gave my children the chance to see me as I am. Definitely flawed, but not abused and manipulated by a sorry waste of a carbon footprint.
I don’t know ANYONE who wishes they are back with their cheater, no matter the circumstances of the breakup.
I don’t know anyone, either, who wishes they are back. I do have a couple of friends who have HUGE regrets about staying.
I have a couple of friends, otherwise independent women with successful professional careers, who stayed whose actions are either a continual pick-me dance or defensive rationalizations–continue spackling. In both cases, their decision to stay has damped them down. It’s sad to see, especially as neither of them, now in their 70s, will ever leave.
Life is much more peaceful and pleasant now, but I have to admit that part of me misses the good part of the life we had. There was plenty of bad everyday life, but there were also many fun and exciting adventures. Years later, I still have to remind myself that not everything was rosy and that it was he who broke the promises he made on the altar in front of our family and friends. My volatile anger was a direct result of his behavior and not the cause of the initial injury to the relationship.
I think this is an important point. Many of us chumps did have good parts of the relationship with our ex’s. I loved my 20s (ex was college boyfriend and we married after graduation), partly because I loved my ex and partly because I loved our adventures as young marrieds. I loved his family, too. Those good times were part of what made the betrayal and collapse of the marriage so hard.
20thCC – I remember one of the regular posters here saying something like, whatever magic was in your marriage was brought by you. And for me, that was not 100% true, certainly not at first, but for the last several years it sure was. For a few years it was really good and he did contribute, but he got more entitled, dissatisfied, and nasty over time. By the end I was doing everything and it was never enough.
I wonder if I can get past that. The remembering and the unanswerable trying to know when it all turned to shit.
“…the unanswerable trying to know when it all turned to shit.” Yes! This.
After the first year of our relationship, I found my then boyfriend “s dating profiles and Craigslist solicitations. I dumped him but he came crawling back, begging me to give him a chance by going to couples therapy to work things out because he loved me. He even wanted to pay for it, and being one of the cheapest people I had ever known, I took that as a sign of true sincerity. CL, you know how the story goes, I took him back, wasted another 6 years with him only to experience his distain, distance and discard. He was back at it again and probably never stopped, just went deeper underground. I wish I left when I first found out. Thank you Chump Lady for your public service helping so many people navigate out of infidelity hellholes. You are a shining beacon of hope and make all of our lives better every day (particularly Monday through Friday when we can start our day with your blog!) thank you!
I love your name
For a long time after deciding to file lots of second thoughts haunted me. But that’s different than regret. As an abused partner of a narcissist I was used to doubting all of my decisions because I was constantly criticized. But each day, week, month, year was a confirmation that while it was unbelievably painful and difficult, it was the right decision. Was he toxic? Of course he was. Narc behavior is toxic. Disrespect and selfishness and entitlement are OBVIOUSLY toxic. I never saw any change, except for “showtime” in the therapist’s office or for his bosses. Last night I was throwing out old journals where I recorded him saying “I’m tired of being ‘on’ with you and just want to act out my hatred,” after confronting him on a number of harms. I regret wasting time in therapy. I regret wasting money on him. I regret how much and how often I blamed myself for his shitty sociopathic behaviors. I regret covering for him and making excuses for him to myself and others.
Regret dumping his toxic/abusive/lying ass? Not an iota.
““I’m tired of being ‘on’ with you and just want to act out my hatred,” ….. WOAH that’s childish and EVIL
Yes very very disordered.
I didn’t leave he did, so I don’t have to regret it.
However, thought it took me about three or four months; I came to a point where I realized, his leaving opened up my life in ways I could have never imagined.
Of course the experts say anxious folks chase after avoidant fw’s, because how else can you circle back to blaming the chump for the abuse of the fw. No mention of the “avoidant” fw lying and wearing a mask to hide who they really are in order to latch on to someone they know will be loyal.
Good point Suzie. They do know we’ll be loyal. So much easier for the person who doesn’t have it together or plan to anytime soon. The responsible ones at home. The good parent. The “constant”. Then when we dont agree or want to accept the behavior it’s our fault. So many things I question.
Who are you?!? And if you’re so good now where were you before?!?
Why am I the “crazy”(that term makes me CRINGE) irrational unforgiving grouchy wife/step mom, now?oh, and I can’t take jokes(I can when they’re funny)
I’m certain FW knew I was a loyal and responsible one, and also willing to believe.
Shann, I love this “if you’re so good now where were you before?” I have wondered that a lot. Take care.
Yeah, my ex tells all who will listen that my anxiety drove him into schmoopie’s arms. The funny thing is that now, as a single woman in my 50’s with a full time job, a solo parent to two teens who have not had the easiest adolescent behavior, two houses to maintain and too many pets, I’m no longer anxious at all…..when in doubt, blame the chump. It makes it so much easier for others to look away that way…..
Gettingthereslowly,
Yes, my ex hated my anxiety and the sometimes compulsive behaviors associated. I went on medication at his request. But, ultimately, I think my anxiety drove him into schmoopie’s arms. Now that he is gone, I have so much less anxiety and so fewer compulsions. I can’t help but think he and my anxiety are related. When married, I had to worry about the day-to-day because he worried about none of it. The body does keep score, and your mind and body do know when things are wrong long before you accept it. I am also in my 50’s.
The thing I regret most is not realizing what a cluster it would have been trying to divorce him. I would have prepared myself and the kids more but there was really no way to predict what would have happened. My ex is entitled to the max and just plain evil. Throw in his evil family with seemingly unlimited money and it was a nuclear bomb of disorder.
10 years later, the kids are grown and know dad is a FW; I have remarried to another former chump, and we are living the good life. The house he tried to take from me is paid for, we have minimal debt, I have a better job with better hours, I have a sweet ride (a BMW) and we take our RV camping numerous times a year. We are at the point where we can happily sail toward retirement. I run 5ks regularly (was waaay overweight married to FW) and play music in a band.
Meanwhile, ex is stuck with wifetress, who is much older than him, and an absolute looney hypochondriac. They are eyeballs in debt and their business is in the toilet simply because of their jackhole attitude. My husbands ex is a barely functional alcoholic, living the party lifestyle and trying to find a sugar daddy. She needs to be more concerned about retirement, diabetes, heart disease, liver damage…etc.
The main point is that it is absolute hell trying to get rid of these FWs, but Tuesday is so much better life.
Woohoo! You got to see Karma. Me? No. But oh well. My karma is I’m a much happier person. The FW is still who he was when he was married to me. What a sad sausage, but he’s not my sad sausage. He still has to live with himself until he dies. His Karma – He has to live with his skank. He’s nearing 70 and he can’t let his kids and grandkids know that he’s such a loser, so he’ll continue to put on a happy face. It’s a never-ending facade that he puts on everyday. And yet, I hear little snippets here and there about his poor choices that he continues to make to this day. So maybe I do get to see Karma.
And you are correct; their life is a complete facade, based on lies.
Tuesday story! thanks for the hope
No regrets. ZERO regrets.
I knew I would be grateful he left long before I felt it.
I entertained wreckonciliation for two months (and he faked it, because leaving at Thanksgiving would have really made him look like the jerk he actually is). I entertained the idea because when in astronomical pain I can entertain ridiculous ideas to alleviate it.
In my conversation with Higher Power this morning, I actually said how grateful I was that he left, and said, “You were right when you said I would be grateful.”
I am NOT grateful for being betrayed and abused and lied to and cheated on and I want my time back. But at the end of the day, I did not want to be married to someone who could do to me what he did, and the main OW, like flipping on the light switch in my kitchen at midnight and spying a cockroach, revealed that my home was not the pest-free zone I believed it to be.
She is the DNA evidence that proves he is a jerk. And her choice of boyfriends proves what a loser she is too.
“…at the end of the day, I did not want to be married to someone who could do to me what he did…”
This is my truth, too. When I realized that my husband was only too willing to live a secret life and keep me in the dark about himself for the rest of my life, I knew he not only didn’t love me, but didn’t care about me at all. I knew I could never respect myself if I stayed with someone who thought so little of me. Wife appliance, indeed. It was an act of self-respect to leave.
Adelante, this is my truth too. We had incredible times together, but there was always the dark side that no one else knew about or saw — only me and the kids (and the kids didn’t know more than “just” the infidelities). I could have kept lying to myself about who he really is and his hidden life, but my self-respect finally won the day. I knew I would lose most everything in my material life, but I could no longer live with myself and the energy it took to support his lies and false self. I was conditioned to denial and to make the best of things, so it’s all been quite difficult…but I will never regret my decision to try to live by my values – decency, compassion, integrity, respect. Seems essential to do so in this upside down world of ours.
Exactly my thoughts. I hope to be free next year. The practicalities of it all scare me sometimes (baby and two elementary school children, work, and doing it all by myself), but i do believe staying married is not an option, not with someone who can treat me like shit when noone is looking, even though he seemed always a gentleman around me: holding doors, cooking me dinners, lovely little notes. But all along he visited prostitutes every two weeks or so. My brain needed time to accept this truth, as in daily life he acted like I meant the world to him. In retrospect I can see something was off, but he was a master manipulator. I hope to get to the other side in one piece. Thanks for the stories of no regrets, fellow chumps!
You can do it. The beginning will be hardest. I have one elementary school child and I have those fears, too. But I am about to rip off the bandage. The cheating is bad but the lies and disrespect are too much. When I call him out on his disordered, controlling behavior, he doesn’t step back and self-examine. He calls me a bitch and feels proud of himself like a pigeon that craps on your chess game. Nothing to work with here. Not only would a FW never genuinely seek help, they hate you for seeing through their gaslighting and lies. What they have isn’t really fixable. Getting the kids away from such a person, at least part of the time, is important.
Stay on the path. Always have your self respect. By having self respect, you are more likely to demand respect from others. And if they don’t give you respect, shake the dust from your shoes and be done with them. It’s tough right now, but it’s a short time in your life. And you are being a great example to your children.
“But at the end of the day, I did not want to be married to someone who could do to me what he did…” SAME.
I still work within the family business we built together and I’ve had to learn boundaries and distance. Have succeeded with both. After 36 years of criticism and 27 years of a fake mirage Thank you VH!); my biggest regret is my loss of opportunity. I regret ever marrying him (how the hell did I do that?!). I don’t miss him at all. At 59; I had to rebuild a life and from the ashes I rose! I’ve increased my assets, building a new business and a further career past that. I’m now 65; I’m in the midst of a demanding heritage significant building renovation and I’m rocking it. I could not have done any of my achievements with him still my life partner. In fact; I was serving a life sentence until I walked out. Him; now 66 is an immature old man all on his own.
NO REGRET! WHY DIDN’T I LEAVE SOONER!
????”In fact, I was serving a life sentence until…” ????
He dumped me. I would have kept trying forever. It wasn’t until I was out that I realized all my attempts at communication just taught him how to manipulate me better.
I regret all the time wasted. Not just with him but with the false “friends” and “family.” I regret that every major life decision I made over a 20 year period was based on lies. That one really burns me. One of his friends asked me what the harm was and I told her that and her eyes got big and she gulped out a “well…” and got real quiet. Yeah, b-word, think about that while you act like he did nothing wrong. Every decision I made was, of course, heavily impacted by our marriage and our family. And the marriage was fake. I made decisions based on us and there was no us, he got to make decisions based on the truth that would benefit him. That’s why I went for alimony and screw all of them for insulting me for it. He used my labor for 20 years until he felt financially stable and then he wanted me to go lie down behind a dumpster and die. He can eat dirt.
So, yeah, as you can see, there is regret. Regret about staying, not about going through with the divorce.
☝️I regret all the time wasted.
I made every major life decisions based on us,
but there was no us ????????????
I say this all the time. I would have kept trying. I would have stayed.
On the day he abandoned our 32 year marriage I wanted to tell him through my sobs that I’ll be here waiting if you figure out all you’re running away from – but I didn’t my pride kept me from saying it and as I watched him drive away, I knew we would not recover. He said he would take care of us and we could find a mediator.
And yes “every decision I made over the years was based on lies”
Frightened and stunned I filed for divorce 3 months later. He was furious that I didn’t tell him first. He was also furious I wanted the house in addition to half of all his retirement not just the one I was “entitled” too.
He tried coming back twice, put divorce on hold without telling me and promised to spend the rest of his life making it up to me. My wobbly heart thought I spotted a unicorn but my brain had already met CL, CN and Runaway Husbands and finally made me trust my gut that he sucks.
The divorce was finalized three months ago. Still stunned I’m here but there are no regrets.
You’re doing awesome. I felt like I was in shock for over a year. I’m two years out and I still have my moments where my mind reels. It will keep getting better though.
You done good. With time, you’ll be ever more solid in knowing that you did the right thing. I’m glad CL, CN, and Runaway Husbands were there for you. I don’t regret the past with the FW because who knows what could have happened. For all I know, there might have been an even more abusive FW and I would have been destroyed. It’s futile to think about what could have been. It is what it is. The most important thing is to move forward, love yourself, and be the best person you can be. And before you know it, you’ll be at Meh. Tuesday really is just around the corner.
CONGRATULATIONS Abovethe Lie!!!!! I think I was in s hock for two years, but I didn’t have CL… keep on because you never have to live his lies again, and that is a beautiful comfort
“all my attempts at communication just taught him how to manipulate me better.”
Hell yes to everything you said
this is brilliant, thank you Katie
I don’t regret leaving my cheater or miss how he treated me. However, I don’t regret trying to reconcile as for me, for my sake, I needed to know that I tried. Also, those were really hard, but eye opening months as I gradually saw who he really was. They were however, months, not years. I definitely feel for those for tried to reconcile for years. Going through that for months was hard enough.
I did the same and have just concluded I will never trust or respect him anymore. He seems like a therapy machine saying the right things, but there is zero empathy. He scares me, seems like a stranger now. Our shared (sex addiction) therapist agrees we should split to stop the pain.
☝️ machine saying the right things, but … ????
No regrets what so ever for leaving my abuser. Financially I suffered big losses and my mental health is not good. Most probably I would be much better off right now if I had ended things years ago. Nothing will ever fix the damages what he did to me. I still blame myself for staying and I don’t know how or if I can ever forgive myself for allowing him abuse and mistreat me for years. Leave if it doesn’t feel right!
The only thing that I regret is using a mediator instead of hiring my own attorney. It’s been two years plus of fighting to get everything how it should have been from the beginning, and it has cost substantially more than it would have otherwise. It is just so very hard to trust that they suck despite all the evidence.
Now, I fully trust that he sucks. I can see him much more clearly, and it makes me nauseated to think that I was once so bonded to him that I would have given anything to make him love and value me and keep our family together.
Anyone who is still trying to decide whether to leave or not needs to, at minimum, demand a favorable, ironclad postnup. If they won’t agree, that is a sure sign that you aren’t married to a unicorn.
This is what I’m grappling with right now. FW and I used an online legal service. We haven’t filed yet, but I’m worried that I should have an actual human lawyer look at it and make sure it’s ironclad. I don’t want to file only to find that he can screw me down the road. He claims to be a unicorn and wants to give me everything I’m asking for (really he wants to stay married but I’m not doing that) but I worry. If this man was capable of lying and cheating for 30 years he’s certainly capable of screwing me in a divorce.
Yes, he’s capable of screwing you in the divorce and to keep screwing you for years after. If he cared about you he wouldn’t have lied and cheated for 30 years. He wants you to believe he’s behaving honorably now so you don’t see him cheat you in the divorce. TRUST HE SUCKS and protect yourself with your own attorney who’s only job is to look out for you. When people show you who they are, believe them.
Get an actual attorney. A longtime friend is struggling with this -/ his step dads parasitic ex came back for more money 20 years after the divorce. Turns out the loose ends were not properly tied and the ex took him to the cleaners again , causing problems that ended the second marriage. Friends mom was left impoverished because her husbands ex got so many assets.
Friend is now having to financially support the mom, who was a housewife most of her life. It’s a mess.
All because some legal paperwork wasn’t properly completed in 1992.
????????????
Or if your state offers legal separation, take that route. You will still be married but will be financially and legally protected. It’s really the LEAST a truly repentant cheater could do. Sure, it may hurt them, but not nearly as much as they hurt you.
But what they should really do is quickly and amicably divorce you. Unicorns can always get remarried.
I don’t miss him at all. I did all the work already, so no change there. But I’m also glad that I did try the reconciliation thing for some period too. I am completely at peace, knowing that I tried everything I could, and he was never really interested in change or committed to me or our family. I could have tried to enforce boundaries earlier and seen who he was earlier. That’s the one thing I regret- waiting until it was my health and mental well-being or him- one needed to go. I remember my counselor saying (I had one of the good ones) that if I proceeded to divorce I would see his true colors. And boy, did I.
No regrets. Feel like I dodged a bullet. At 71, I am aware of and surrounded by couples and singles making sense of the last 10 to 15 yrs of our lives. Several of the couples have a spouse in mental decline and are essentially babysitting even changing diapers. I look at that scenario and am thankful I am not with FW. I am an all-in Chump and if he had stayed with me and reconciled, I am quite sure I would one day be spending all my savings on his health care and resenting him for it. On the other hand if I’d gotten sick, he would not have cared for me and would have made a mess of finances etc. I truly am living my best life right now..retired, golfing, hiking, book club, caring for grandkids enough to enjoy them but not so much I resent the imposition, and now I started traveling again. I’m healthy and have financial resources to do what I want. And FW..he is working 6 days a week pounding nails-literally, to pay bills. He is living with an alcoholic (The OW dumped him for another mark), has shitty relationship with his sons and grandkids which makes me sad for my sons. Get this- my married friends are envious of my life. I am so happy to have grown up through womens lib movement. Those of us at this age still cling to our independence. My moms generation was handcuffed by the patriarchal mentality which seems to be rearing it’s ugly head again. I’m sad that my kids and grandkids might have to fight the same fights my generation did. Freedom from tyranny is a treasure not to be squandered! Life fed me a lemon, I made sweet lemonade. Hugs! ????
Amen! This is the main reason I don’t want to remarry or live with anyone again. I will have an empty nest soon and started saving aggressively for my own retirement after he left. It’s amazing how much money I could save without him spending it.
I am also committed to not being saddled with my parents care because I am the only daughter, my brothers are going to have to figure that out when the time comes. My parents neglected to plan for their own old age, which isn’t my financial burden to bear. They spent every dime they had on trips and meals and that was their choice.
“Freedom from tyranny is a treasure not to be squandered!”
You are an inspiration. ❤️
Thank you for this. I will be 69 in a couple of months. I am now caring for my aging mother, who is in hospice, and, god forgive me, I am looking forward to the release her death will bring. The life you describe yourself living is an inspiration to me–it’s what I want for myself, post-divorce, post-retirement, and post-caring for Mom.
“I am an all-in Chump and if he had stayed with me and reconciled, I am quite sure I would one day be spending all my savings on his health care and resenting him for it. On the other hand if I’d gotten sick, he would not have cared for me and would have made a mess of finances etc.”
Yes, THIS!!!! He didn’t care for me when I was so sick I could have died. I spent so much energy taking care of him when he was sick. His health wasn’t good and I would have spent my life dealing with that. And he was terrible with money. I was not unhappy to hand the job of nursemaid and bank over to OW.
I truly am living my best life right now (and traveling again, too!).
Maybe add. No regrets to being divorced from a cheater. He left me. But i regret not leaving first.
My life is easier. I get more breaks. My son is happier. He’s accountable for putting more money in towards our son so I can save.
When he was leaving he actually said “you have nothing to lose. It’s not like you have had my affection” he meant it as an insult for me I guess. But really it was insult about him and his contribution to our family.
I have been asked this by other people. I do not regret one bit leaving my abusive, cheating, lying, butt ugly poor excuse of an ex wife. When the massive and only DDay happened I filed for divorce 2 1/2 weeks later when she acted entitled and when the lawyer did a Colorado State background check on her and her whole double life came out.
Divorced a little over 6 years after 21 years of marriage to a serial cheater. I miss NOTHING about him as a person. I do miss being 1/2 of a couple. I miss a lot of the activities we did together. Lots of traveling, lots of motorcycle riding, friday night tv on the couch together. Those types of things. But these are things I can do again with Mr. Right instead of “Mr. Im going to be in the bathroom for 15 minutes texting my girlfriend”
My ex would take his iPad into the bathroom for a half hour to message his girlfriend. Maybe he was also sharing di*k pics with her, who knows… I asked him if he was having trouble with a bowel movement and needed to see the doctor. He said, “No.” I asked, “Are you chatting with your girlfriend?” He said, “I don’t have a girlfriend.” Uh-huh…
It has been so many years since klootzak has acted like we are a couple, I hardly remember those activities. I am used to watching TV alone now. Maybe someday I’ll miss those things but right now it feels like I adjusted to single life.
100% no regrets. When the bombshell double life was thrown at me, my only regret was that I let him see me cry. I did not attempt wreckconciliation and filed for divorce in record time. The only thing I could think of is I don’t want to waste anymore of my life. The gaslighting, mental abuse, silent treatment, loneliness, abandonment that I felt during our marriage is like a bad memory. I don’t miss anything. I do wish he would disappear so I didn’t have to deal with child custody issues. But my son will be an adult in 10 years and it will get easier.
No regrets whatsoever. I don’t even regret marrying the SOB. I know what a great wife I was, it was his loss, not mine. Not that he’s capable of recognizing that fact. That experience “fixed my picker” for life! If a man has even ONE similar characteristic, I’m out!
I got a beautiful child out of my marriage, and my son is the love of my life. I’d do it all again for him. But if I had to do it again, I’d leave when he was a baby and not wait five more years.
He left me. It hurt SO badly and left me an emotional wreck for several years. In time I was glad that he did. I would have stayed and kept trying, probably forever, and been miserable. I would have continued to endure his abuse and continued to blame myself for my “failings”. I thought I loved him. And he had beaten me down so much that I thought I couldn’t live without him. (But look at me, living and shit. Doing just fine.)
Time and distance opened my eyes to what a nightmare my life had been. How small. How empty.
My life now is full. Full of good things. Full of genuine people. Full of peace. Full of happiness. Full of potential. Full of freedom. For the first time since I started dating him, I am financially stable (what a drain he was, in every respect).
I no longer have to try to make myself small to accommodate a disordered person. I no longer have to “perform” in the hopes that he would show me some basic human decency.
I am so happy being single. I’m not lonely. Not even a little. I was terribly lonely in my marriage, especially the last few years.
I regret that I didn’t file for divorce the moment he admitted to having had (he said past tense) “feelings” for OW. I kept trying for three and a half years to “fix” something that was broken beyond repair. To “save” something that never existed. I regret that I begged and pleaded for him to take me back. I regret that I did things in an effort to “keep” him that were completely out of character for me. I regret losing my dignity. But I don’t regret “losing” him. I got to the point where I realized I didn’t envy OW. That I wouldn’t have traded places with her for the world. I knew what her life was like and what it was going to be. And I was so grateful to be out of it.
He died about a year ago, so I am truly free from his abuse now. All of that mess feels like it happened to someone else. I worried at one point that I was becoming an angry, bitter person, but I just needed time to process everything that had happened to me (once I was safe enough to do so). I am no longer angry. I am indifferent. Those things happened to me, but they don’t control my life or occupy my thoughts any more.
I leave in a few weeks to go on the first vacation I’ve had in 15 years, a solo trip I am looking forward to so much. I paid for it in full (on a whim!) and didn’t even feel it. That would have been unimaginable a few years ago. These days I can think about the future with hope and happiness, rather than steeling myself to endure it. No regrets.
Congratulations! Have a lot of fun on your vacation. I bought myself a tiny pop-up trailer when I divorced the FW. It was scary at first, but after a while, I was rocking it! If there is advice that I could give somebody coming out of marriage to a FW, go out immediately and start doing the things that you wanted to do but didn’t because the FW disapproved. Don’t wait until you’re stronger. Force yourself to live immediately. I think that helped me get to Meh faster. When I got out and started doing things on my own, I saw that I was ‘free’ and actually quite capable. I finally got to see that the only person that I needed to make me happy was ‘ME’.
How much time? I hear so much of my story in yours and small glimpses of what my future might be.
I’m five years out from D-day. I’d say I felt “happy” finally after about 3 1/2 or 4 years.
“But look at me, living and shit.” My new motto.
I confess, I saw it on Pinterest, LOL.
One who knows the details of my story could argue that I maybe might have a unicorn, but the damage has been done and I need to move on. I’m not willing to invest more time or energy into a man who had sex with my friend for two years, lied about it every single second of those two years, lied about viewing porn for almost the entirety of our 20-year marriage, and partnered in blowing up two families (along with our circle of friends). I’m not on the fence. He moved out three weeks ago. I felt relieved. But…still sad, and wondering when relief will arrive in a more exponential fashion. Maybe I need more than three weeks?
I also wondered when the pain would ease after a 30 year marriage. Everyone’s healing experience is unique, though I’ve heard a year for every 5 of the relationship. What is true for me is that it hurts just half as much with each passing year. Almost four years out, it is close to “meh”. And the alternative (staying) would have probably killed me.
Three weeks is nothing. Be kind to yourself. 20 years is a lot of time for someone to have fucked with your whole self esteem. Give yourself a break and recognize that you’re very early in the healing process. Take your time and get to know who you are – warts and all. Then see that you’re a wonderful person and that if someone else doesn’t recognize it, then the problem is that person. Not you. I mentioned on another’s comment — Go force yourself to do some of the things that you’ve always wanted to do but your FW’s disapproval just kept preventing you. Do it now. Each time you do something for yourself, you’ll feel a little better about yourself. It’s therapy even though you won’t recognize it till months later. You got this!!
Thanks, Amazon. It’s nice to be cheered 🙂
Oh hell yes, you need a lot more time. It will improve but it’s not necessarily linear. You’ll probably have many setbacks that make it seem like you’re starting from scratch. Expect that and don’t let it melt your resolve. Just stay steady on your course and keep going.
Thank you for the encouragement, OHFFS.
A unicorn ???? would not have spent 2 years deceiving you and would have had the common sense to pick a mistress from outside his social circle.
FW brought her AP into our social circle for a while. Had no idea at the time. What a chump I am
Seriously! Pick someone outside our social circle!! Apparently he doesn’t have as much common sense as I initially thought 😉
I meant a unicorn during the recovery process. But I get your point.
I regret not ending the relationship much sooner (than she ended it). Unfortunately, I saw the signs and doubled my investment to make us work, only to have her leave me a year later. Wasted time, emotions – and money!
As the child of two cheater narcissist alcoholics I was abused for expressing feelings and gaslit and blamed constantly. No wonder I partnered with abusive men. It’s hard to believe I even survived the numerous traumatic events I suffered (sexual abuse by several perps starting at age 3, rape, domestic violence, violent death of my father, physical neglect and assault by my mother, pregnant at 14, homeless as 16, motherhood at 19, cheater husband and dV abuser #1, and covert sociopath cheater alcoholic and drug addict husband #2 (25 year marriage). It’s hard for me to discern my own thoughts about my XH. But, 8 years after Dday 1 and 18 weeks of false wreconciliation and Ddays 2-???, finding CL and going low/no contact, getting divorced, stabilizing my finances, building my career, raising my kids….. I’m glad I’m not in the throes of the shock, terror, discard, blameshifting, gaslighting phases. I’m glad I’m not getting STDs from him. I’m glad I’m not hyper vigilant about his whereabouts, his stories that don’t add up, his sketchy phone use, his moodiness, his physical and emotional abuse. I haven’t had any contact with him for 2 months despite the birth of our first grandchild. I still feel his dark shadow lurking. Regret leaving that hellish end?Never. Miss the life I thought I had with him for 25 years? Yes, very much at times. But, it was all built on his lies. One big con job. ????
I agree. You are mighty! May you find overwhelming peace and contentment the rest of your life.
Dang, you are mighty !!
Put me in the “Wish I had left sooner” category.
I would have avoided a whole world in which marriage is THE THING held in highest regard, not my safety or health.
Glad to be out of it now.
“the vast majority of chumps tried reconciliation first. And even if they didn’t leave, and were left, they probably spent a lot of time trying to get their partner to be more fully invested. Chumps are all in”
If there ever was an All-In Chump, it was me.
All of my ideas of regret are deeply influenced by the fact that I had ABSOLUTELY no idea what life I was actually living.
I REALLY thought that I was married to a sweet and devoted man who had struggles which kept him off balance and if he could just understand how great life could be if he saw me in a more fair and charitable manner (he blamed me for everything, all day, without exceptions) that we could have a loving reciprocal marriage.
I had no idea that our relationship was likely based on lies and subterfuge from the first moment we met.
For the 18 years we were married before Dday, I swear to you that I really believed (that despite his crankiness)that we had a faithful, monogamous union. I kept trying to fix stuff but I never knew what the problem was. It was SOOOO not fixable….but I didnt know that. The 3 years we dated were all future-faking. (I wonder why men who DONT want to be monogamous seem to find endless delight in telling women that they are in love and want to get married…WTF is that?)
The world kept telling me that people give up too easily and if you find the secret sauce of how you treat them, it will all be good. I regret that the universe didn’t tell me the truth. I deeply resent the “you teach people how to treat you” BS…I didnt teach people to lie, deceive and abuse me.
I have entertained (and dismissed) regrets that I didnt kick him out on Dday but I was still hopeful and he would have used that to manipulate me. It would have changed the order of things but not the outcome.
The putrid underbelly of my truth is that I was raised by narcs and even though I had a good soul, I was likely raised to be selfish and demanding because that is what I saw. The young woman who married him was interiorly unrefined and life with him was like smelting to burn off the useless ore. If I had been given a kind husband, I might have become a bratty, entitled brat of a woman. The person I am today is better and I appreciate life and love better than I might otherwise have been.
So regret is a really complicated topic for me. I surely dont regret that the marriage is over.
“The world kept telling me that people give up too easily and if you find the secret sauce of how you treat them, it will all be good. I regret that the universe didn’t tell me the truth. I deeply resent the “you teach people how to treat you” BS…I didnt teach people to lie, deceive and abuse me.” deserves repeating, memorizing, and teaching
I read the books and tied myself in knots. Better meals and more sex. Don’t complain about his porn habit. In his eyes, I was a loser, and he told me so.
Once I got that he was justifying himself and that such comments were not at all a reflection on me, I was free.
I talk all the time with my adult kids about safe people and unsafe people. The only thing to do with an unsafe person is to run when you can. Don’t let them close to you while you get ready to go.
Yes, I was raised by a narc too. On the outside, I grew up in the perfect family. I didn’t know that healthy conflict resolution meant no stonewalling, no contempt, and no power-over. Once I came to, I was in so thick with two teens that I couldn’t figure out what to do and just chose to bury my feelings and stay in denial.
My attorney said that if I had married someone kind-hearted, truly committed, and able to handle conflicts with respect, the story would have been different. He had been married for forty years and assured me that those had always been his values. His wife was his business partner and practice manager.
Ironically, a mutual friend of ours had actually warned me off of my ex after we got engaged. He completely nailed the attitude that was the root of our problems. Of course, I ignored that.
Omigosh thats a big no regerts from me too. Through fear, anxiety, the emotional dislocation of acrimonious divorce, abuse recovery, PTSD recovery, the painful onion peeling of therapy, bouts of deep paralysing depression, seemingly bottomless wells of FOI to process … one thing never changed – the sheer relief of not living with him any more. The festering boil is lanced, the truth is told, I have no friends left from that time, no contact with ex, my kids have weathered things with resilience and maturity. I’m financially secure and retired at 61. No, no regrets.
“The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.”
Absolutely no regrets about leaving!
I do regret doing the pick me dance for 4 years after D-day…. I only wish that I had trusted intuition and l left 20+ years earlier (married for 24 years!). The roller coaster of discard and devaluation often left me feeling depressed and anxious – I never understood it. Now, with time and distance I see that he was just a really shitty partner on top of being a lying cheater.
4.5 years out from my divorce and life if good. 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Kvu6Kgp88
Thank you. ☝️
No Regrets! I went through hell getting out of that marriage but I live a drama free authentic life now. Sometimes I miss the lie. I miss who I thought he was, financial security, the big beautiful marital home. But everything I have now is mine. Staying with a cheater is unsustainable and I’m glad I got out.
☝️Sometimes I miss the lie.????
I miss who I thought he was.????
No regrets! Lots of good came out losing a 36 year marriage to the collateral damage of discovery and divorce.
I try to keep it in perspective. While it was devastating on the front-end, it yielded great benefits on the other side:
1. Rose colored glasses only work for a time. They must come off to live with eyes-wide-open.
2. The world is full of grifters. Many are using marriage as cover for image management – not love.
3. Men and women must be self-supportive regardless of another’s promise to provide for home and children.
4. Trust your gut. Intuition is a built-in warning system for your survival.
5. Society is unraveling and civilization is degrading. Watch your back at all times.
6. Don’t commingle your finances with another. Period.
7. Children learn through modeling in the home. Model high ideals; don’t stick it out with a disordered partner.
8. This experience doesn’t define us. It’s a learning experience full of growth potential and opportunity!
9. Single life is ripe for discovery and fulfillment. Accessorize it your way to find your peace.
10. Be grateful your character, conscience and courage are intact. They are your greatest assets. You dodged a bullet.
11. Remain open to quality people and relationships. They’re out there. Patience and time win the prize.
12. CL and Chump Nation are valuable friends and resources! There is wisdom and inspiration here!
What’s to regret?! Sometimes losing all is the path to real gain. Embrace it; there are blessings on the other side!
I’m only glad I didn’t leave the first time I found out because we had another baby as part of the Great Reconciliation Pt. 1, and he wouldn’t be here if I’d gone. When he was 7 months old, FW couldn’t wait any longer and moved in with the newest and evidently greatest Schmoopie. It was hell and a half but I don’t regret that at all. I have my 2 amazing kids and a new healthy life.
I have no regrets about leaving. My life is so much better now. Biggest regret is not pulling the pin sooner. I DO regret how badly ex-FW treated my (his) children! Not only did he replace me, but her kids replaced his. I left him when I was pregnant with my first, but he pulled me back in. Part of me wished I had just stayed away, but then I wouldn’t have kid #2 (and grandchildren!)
Not a one, CL, not a one.
No Regrets at ALL! And that’s with only 1 year out from D-Day. Divorce final 4 months ago. I really wanted kids with him. Our only fight was after IVF didn’t take and he didn’t want to go to an adoption meeting (he didn’t want kids “that bad”). I regretted not having kids with him until…the divorce. Now I’m so THANKFUL I don’t have kids with that FW. I never have to deal with him ever again. All in all, I didn’t realize what a roadblock he was in our relationship until god pushed him away to make way for my blessings. FW took his demons with him to deal with on his own (and with the AP). That is her problem now too. 🙂
My only regret is not leaving sooner. To all those who are reading this and feeling stuck, take baby steps forward and you will get there. Detoxing is hell but you can get through it to a better life on the other side!
I didn’t know the shit he was pulling mostly after he left.
However, I knew something was off the year of discard. I just kept trying to fix it. By the last three month, I was in the fetal position (metaphorically) waiting for the blows.
If I had it to do over, the day it hit me that he was pulling away, I would do my financial investigation and then spent that year working on me, hiding a bit of money and asking my brother to pay for a legal consult. He would have known if I paid for it myself, I am sure he kept a close eye on the checks I wrote. I didn’t watch his account because at the time I was not suspicious of financial fraud. Note: we had two accounts but we were owners on both.
Thank God I didn’t put my check into the main account, otherwise the whore would have got most of that too.
But, I can’t be too hard on myself, as I did pretty darn good considering I didn’t know what the hell was going on or what I was involved in.
Regret leaving?
Hahhahahahhahahahahhaha!!!!
I am living my best life.
“I think a lot of what we deem toxic is driven by the power dynamics of maintaining one’s entitlement. Healthy relationships, by contrast, aren’t competitions or predatory. They’re reciprocal and respectful.”
Exactly, and whether one prefers to call these people toxic or abusive, the effect they have is the same. They hurt and damage their partners. So to me there is no such distinction. If you repeatedly, deliberately do things which harm people, you are both toxic and abusive.
I do believe people can change their ways if they want to. The trouble is that toxic/abusive people don’t want to. This explains why I have no regrets. The FW clearly did not want to change. He made only an outward show of it by occupying a seat with a therapist for 2-4 hours a month, then doing none of the work on himself that was part of the therapy. The work is done by the patient and mostly outside the therapist’s office, based on suggestions the therapist makes. FW did none of that. He would put therapy out of his mind immediately after the session ended and he gleaned no insights at all. He briefly tried CBT but was too lazy to fill out a simple worksheet that was part of it. He was only required to do two of those a month, but couldn’t be bothered.
Apparently he is seeing a better qualified therapist now, so hopefully he will get the boot from her if he refuses to do anything but sit there and pretend to listen. But even if by some miracle he now wants to change and is trying, it’s far too late. I have no love or respect left for him.
When people do want to change, the effort they put into it is noticeable. Where there is low to no effort you have somebody who prefers to maintain their sense of entitlement to be abusive.
I’ve read enough from people on the RIC forums and blogs to know that they are miserable, far more than we are. Common feelings the allegedly successfully reconciled unicorns post about include feeling dead inside, numb, hopeless and paralyzed.
People at CN might be sad but thankfully, we are not usually those things, or at least, not for long, because we get rid of the creature that is the cause of those feelings. We gather up the guts to face the terrible truth about our so-called life partners, then act in our own best interest to salvage our mental and physical health. Some get here faster than others, but we all get here. Everlasting thanks to CL for giving us a place to help each other get where we need to be.