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UBT: ‘I in no way want be looked at as a home wrecker’

Universal Bullshit Translator
The Universal Bullshit Translator

Hi Chump Lady,

My ex was a serial cheater, cheated on me our entire 7 year relationship (7 years together married for 4; 2014-2021), even got another woman pregnant when I was pregnant with our youngest son. He has an affair baby who is 4 months younger than our youngest.

Finally, in January 2021 we separated when he asked for an open marriage; but we still lived together, I was playing the pick me dance for several months, we were still married and still having sex; I thought we were going to get through it again, like we had every time in the past. Then he met his current fiancé (OW), and he did a complete 180 with me.

He stopped coming home to help me with the kids in the mornings (while I was working from home full-time supporting us), he became cold and started disrespecting me more and more. Finally, I got the strength and courage to kick him out (June 13th 2021) and he called up the OW and she picked him up and he has been living with her and her young sons ever since.

Father’s Day was a week later… he asked to spend the day with the kids, so I of course said yes, then he showed up almost 4 hours late to take the kids, and when he finally got them and had driven away, he texted saying he was not bringing them home. He went and stayed at a hotel with the OW and her young sons, had all 5 kids sleep in one bed (my daughter being the only girl, she was 5 at the time) and he and the OW slept in the other.

He brought them home the next morning at 6:45AM and they were all tired and dirty and hungry. I fed them, and they went back to sleep and slept till noon. When she woke up, my daughter cried to me about how scared she was and how she just wanted to come home. It lit a fire in me that I never knew was there! I filed for divorce the next day; with full custody and supervised visitation for him only, out of fear he would pull the not bringing them home bullshit again.

He dodged the process servers 4 times, and was finally served. He didn’t even bother reading the divorce papers, did nothing the court required he do (parenting classes, etc.), couldn’t be bothered to do anything. The judge signed my default divorce decree January 4th 2022, so I got everything I asked for (full custody, supervised visitation every other weekend, child support) because he couldn’t even be bothered to read the papers and file anything contesting what I was asking for.

He is responsible for paying for the supervised visits, which he hasn’t done, he is also $6,000 in arrears from child support, as he hasn’t paid a dime for anything to help support our kids since the day I kicked him out. He only asks to see them on birthdays or holidays, and always shows up to my house on those occasions with gifts, so he is Disneyland dad!

Anyway, to the point of my email — the OW sent me a text yesterday, my ex gave her my number and she decided it was time to text me. I have copied and pasted that below! I was thinking maybe you could run it through your UBT if it isn’t too long! Luckily, I wasn’t triggered by it, I found it to be extremely hilarious (thank you therapy – haha)! Below is the text from the OW……

“Hey Amanda.
This is long and I apologize for that, but I hope you take the time to read this. Since it’s been over a year and we haven’t been properly introduced my name is Christine. This is long overdue and I’m more of a face to face person but I can understand how that may not be ok with you yet and I will respect that. I’ve been wanting to speak to you for awhile but wanted to make sure to give you and FW the proper distance and respect to figure you guys situation out. Since it’s been over a year I feel a talk is needed. I understand you may think we don’t have a reason to communicate but there are many things I feel should. As a woman, I can sympathize and have an understanding with you on how you feel and where your mind is. Since the beginning of my relationship with FW I’ve had nothing but respect and best wishes for you in your healing and in your future. I’ve always made sure we spoke positivity into your life and heart. I just want to come to you as a woman and say that I get it. I get the pain and the hurt you feel. I have never been married and had children with someone so I can’t come to you and say I understand that part and I hate to see a family torn that way. I’ve had that happen in my family and see how in the beginning things can be hard to navigate and hard to process those feelings. I do want to say from the outside looking in I want everyone in this situation to be happy and be able to elevate in their own lives and find the good. I’m not going to speak for FW because I want this conversation to be strictly my feelings and my words but I can say from him and I we want everything good that can come to you. We want you to find true love and happiness. We want to see you thrive. We want to see the children enjoy two happy homes. Two happy homes are better than one miserable one. I want to put it out there as well is that I hope you don’t have some sort of animosity or anger towards me. FW was very honest with me in the beginning of the relationship of you guys situation and where it was headed. I in no way want be looked at as a home wrecker or that I want to keep him from his responsibilities as a father. Since the beginning I’ve always encouraged him to keep an open dialogue with you and to be there for the children as much as you would allow. I just want to make sure that I’m treated with the same respect as you would wish for us to treat the man that comes into your life. As far as why I feel it’s important for us to communicate is because I’m in the life of your children’s father. And where you may not feel at the moment it’s not important to speak to me I feel it is. I remember in the beginning of his and my relationship you wrote him and told him that after he and I have been together for 8 months then you would allow me to be around the children. We are now over a year into the relationship and it’s very salient to me to have some sort of relationship with his children. I want to make it clear that I’m not here to try to act like their mother or step on your toes. I have two kids and I know what it’s like being on the other side in wanting the right type of women around my children. Mother to mother I totally get it and back you 100% when it comes to those children. Because I love him so much, I love those kids just as much. It hurts me to see him down and crying about his children and I hate feeling like I’m part of the issue as to why he can’t see them even though I’m really just an innocent bystander. The love he has for those children is so beautiful and wish more men in the world were more like him. I can see how seeing the positive qualities in someone is hard amongst a lot of chaos and confusion. I know healing takes time and I’m not here to push you to a decision, I just merely want to speak my peace and hopefully open up another path of dialogue for us. I want nothing more then to blend our families down the road and be able to get along and have all the children together for holidays and birthdays. I adore the kids and the couple of times I got to spend time with them was amazing. My children and your children get along very well and had fun the times they were together. We want the kids to feel love from all sides. And I also want to thank you for thinking of my children on a couple occasions by giving them Halloween candy and giving them food that they liked. I appreciate it whole heartedly. I do hope you are a woman of your word and allow my presence around the children and if that takes for us to talk and come to an understanding just know I am open to that.”

🤣🤣🤣

Amanda

****

Dear Amanda,

Wow. Christine needs to learn to use paragraph breaks. The Universal Bullshit Translator cannot chugalug that much ridiculousness.

Poor Christine loves a deeply misunderstood sad sausage, whose only crime is adoring his children so much. If only you weren’t such a mean buzzkill. You with your custody schedules and court ordered visitation decrees.

Hey, public service announcement to the Christines out there — you know what says “I love my children”? PAYING CHILD SUPPORT. It is, like literally, the LEAST they can do. People who do not pay for their children, do not love their children.

Ooh, that’s so harsh and capitalist of you, Tracy.

Children are not props in Christine and Fuckwits’ happy family fantasy. Children need tangible, costly shit like braces, school supplies, and medical expenses. They grow out of shoes every 6 months. There’s a lot of frozen pizza consumption.

The unmitigated gall of Schmoopie to lecture you on the bonds of motherhood when you are the show up parent who foots the goddamn bills!

My head wants to explode. Fortunately, I have a well-oiled bullshit machine here to deal with Christine’s pile of crazy.

“Hey Amanda.
This is long and I apologize for that,

I’m sorry, I’m typing so furiously I cannot hit the return key. Nor can I edit. But please accept my meaningless apology.

but I hope you take the time to read this. Since it’s been over a year and we haven’t been properly introduced my name is Christine.

I missed the part in the Emily Post Book of Etiquette where you’re supposed to exchange curtsies with the wife after your married boyfriend is thrown out.

This is long overdue and I’m more of a face-to-face person, but I can understand how that may not be ok with you yet and I will respect that.

The same way I respected your marriage.

I’ve been wanting to speak to you for awhile but wanted to make sure to give you and FW the proper distance and respect to figure you guys situation out. Since it’s been over a year I feel a talk is needed.

You guys situation isn’t figured out. I feel I should figure it out. #properdistance

I understand you may think we don’t have a reason to communicate but there are many things I feel should.

Let me demonstrate my respect by violating your boundaries.

As a woman, I can sympathize and have an understanding with you on how you feel and where your mind is.

Our shared uteri trumps our divergent values.

Since the beginning of my relationship with FW I’ve had nothing but respect and best wishes for you in your healing and in your future.

I won the pick me dance. Best wishes. Enjoy the luggage set.

I’ve always made sure we spoke positivity into your life and heart.

Either I’m casting positivity spells and imagining my voodoo has reached your heart, or I read this shit on a Pinterest board.

I just want to come to you as a woman and say that I get it. I get the pain and the hurt you feel. I have never been married and had children with someone so I can’t come to you and say I understand that part and I hate to see a family torn that way.

I can’t imagine what tore this family up. Was it FW’s wandering dick? A tornado? A pack of wild hyenas?

I’ve never been married, so I can’t understand.

I’ve had that happen in my family and see how in the beginning things can be hard to navigate and hard to process those feelings. I do want to say from the outside looking in I want everyone in this situation to be happy and be able to elevate in their own lives and find the good.

Can’t you be happy that your ex abandoned his children for me?

I’m not going to speak for FW because I want this conversation to be strictly my feelings and my words but I can say from him

I don’t understand how contradictions work.

and I we want everything good that can come to you.

Except $6,000 of child support. That good cannot come to you. #everythingNOTthat

We want you to find true love and happiness. We want to see you thrive.

Eat my dust, bitch.

We want to see the children enjoy two happy homes. Two happy homes are better than one miserable one.

Tis for the best. I cannot imagine a world in which you have a happy home and I’m utterly irrelevant. Surely you need my munificence.

I want to put it out there as well is that I hope you don’t have some sort of animosity or anger towards me. FW was very honest with me in the beginning of the relationship of you guys situation and where it was headed.

I trust the serial cheater. Why must the baby mamas hate?

I in no way want be looked at as a home wrecker

I in no way want weasel fritters with my porridge. Blasphemy! You home helpers!

Excuse me, the UBT has malfunctioned. I think the transponders are melting.

or that I want to keep him from his responsibilities as a father. Since the beginning I’ve always encouraged him to keep an open dialogue with you and to be there for the children as much as you would allow.

It’s not like I’m saying DON’T WRITE THAT CHECK, DONALD! Who am I to keep him from his responsibilities? I just drove the getaway car. I encourage him to dialogue! Except through money.

I just want to make sure that I’m treated with the same respect as you would wish for us to treat the man that comes into your life.

Some day some man may abandon his family for you, and when that happens I will treat him the respect he deserves… oh.. um…

As far as why I feel it’s important for us to communicate is because I’m in the life of your children’s father.

Which is more than I can say for his children.

And where you may not feel at the moment it’s not important to speak to me I feel it is.

My feelings trump yours. #respect

I remember in the beginning of his and my relationship you wrote him and told him that after he and I have been together for 8 months then you would allow me to be around the children. We are now over a year into the relationship and it’s very salient to me to have some sort of relationship with his children.

Change your custody decree. I have FEELINGS.

I want to make it clear that I’m not here to try to act like their mother or step on your toes. I have two kids and I know what it’s like being on the other side in wanting the right type of women around my children.

I am the Right Type of Woman. The sort that allows her married boyfriend to move in with her kids.

Mother to mother I totally get it and back you 100% when it comes to those children.

Except for honoring the custody order or paying child support.

Because I love him so much, I love those kids just as much. It hurts me to see him down and crying about his children and I hate feeling like I’m part of the issue as to why he can’t see them even though I’m really just an innocent bystander.

He’s just so sad about his children. And I am powerless to help him. Innocents, both of us.

The love he has for those children is so beautiful and wish more men in the world were more like him.

You know, deadbeats with baby mamas.

I can see how seeing the positive qualities in someone is hard amongst a lot of chaos and confusion.

Am I talking to you or myself?

I know healing takes time and I’m not here to push you to a decision, I just merely want to speak my peace and hopefully open up another path of dialogue for us. I want nothing more then to blend our families down the road and be able to get along and have all the children together for holidays and birthdays.

Won’t that be fun? You respecting me, us blowing birthday balloons together, playing Pin The Tail on the Fuckwit.

I adore the kids and the couple of times I got to spend time with them was amazing.

I love them, after just a couple visits! Let’s DO ALL THE HOLIDAYS TOGETHER! #blend!

My children and your children get along very well and had fun the times they were together. We want the kids to feel love from all sides.

Except in the form of child support. #thelovethatdarenotspeakitsname

And I also want to thank you for thinking of my children on a couple occasions by giving them Halloween candy and giving them food that they liked. I appreciate it whole heartedly. I do hope you are a woman of your word and allow my presence around the children and if that takes for us to talk and come to an understanding just know I am open to that.”

I do hope you’re a woman of your word. As the woman who used to fuck your ex when you were married, I am a person of integrity. Who appreciates Halloween candy wholeheartedly.

Thank you.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • WTF did I just read?

    “I in no way want be looked at as a home wrecker.”

    In my experience, the best way to avoid this is by not wrecking homes.

    WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

    • These people are utterly delusional. In my case, OW sent a threatening text message to me and said I had NO RIGHT to be involved in her life.

      Um… YOU got involved in MY life when you decided to have an affair with MY HUSBAND.

      You get involved with a married man and then you are upset when his WIFE has an issue with you?

      WTF?

    • these people are stitched together by tattoos, wear clothing graffitied with word salad, and, in private, favour a lucite heel.

      inky images scratched on skin and fabric, feet ensconced in plastic.

      they’re cheap, plastic figurines. hollow, too.

    • And this nonsensical gem: “I’m really just an innocent bystander.” Oh brother. She helped plan the heist and drove the get-away car. #msinnocentmyass

      “I’m just a lil innocent woman who fell in love with a man who happened to be your husband, but I’m the better woman (obviously), and he likes me more, so you should respect me…for the sake of the kids. Enjoy the luggage set, bitch.”

      p.s. That FW is already cheating on “innocent” Christine. I’d put money on it.

      • return that samsonite luggage, the one with the wonky wheel, with the following voodoo contents: one red-coloured candle, one sterile needle, yarn or thread, one organic chicken wing, one sheet of parchment paper, matches and three drops of blood. super 8 films of happy families from the 50s that you found in the back alley. your wedding dress smeared with stale coffee grounds.

        an old bowl from a garage sale rubbed with garlic. wilted lettuce. the shell of your broken heart, cracked open and shucked into the void. nail clippings. a sprinkle of ajax for the rub. several cans of clams, unopened, with no can opener or a shitty one that cuts your thumb every fucking time you use it. a mixed tape with only one song on it, a discordant kind of jangly song that appeals to you at 3 a.m., the one that falls apart at the 7 minute mark, what a relief, on endless repeat.

    • “WTF did I just read?”

      Exactly! No matter how good at surface-level impression management, these OWs are batcrap crazy.

    • If Amanda’s FW is anything like mine, he was probably telling Christine he was already divorced when he met her, hence she would not see herself as a home wrecker.

      • Or at least spouting something like this: “I’m still married, but it’s as if we’re divorced.”

        And/or the oh-so-somber, “We haven’t been happy for a long, long time.”

        Willing accomplices must lap this up. Cheating isn’t bad if the marriage isn’t happy. 🤬

      • During the time when he was defending what a wonderful woman OW was, I said “how can she be so great? she was dating a married man”

        He said that she considered him “fair game” but at the time I didnt have the sense to ask him what he has told her (he would have lied anyway).

        When the OW is told that their new love interest is single or divorced and later learns they are married, the ones with loose morals are quick to find mental gymnastics to declare it a non-marriage.

        In this story, I was picturing a hotel room with 5 kids loaded into one bed. Nothing in my experience of life would lead me to think that anything about that sounded “fun”. Gah

  • When something happens and your head is exploding. Wondering how can they do that. Think of this text, how completely out of touch with reality they truly are. Completely devoid of responsibility or self awareness. You can’t fix stupid!

  • Dear Christine,

    You are not a homewrecker. You are a CO-home wrecker. It takes two to wreck a home. And the Chump in the dark is not one of them.

    A man who loves his children, or who knows how to love anybody, does not lie and cheat and abandon his family.

      • Tenkyu, CL. It was evidently difficult for me to keep everything straight in that tsunami of verbal sewage.

    • Yep, when fw told our son when son came home to see me after hearing his dad had left me for his whore, fw started the “it takes two” shit with my son. My sweet son who was only 21 said “stop right there Dad, you did her wrong; I lived with both of you for 18 years and I know she was good to you”. He said his dad just shut up and refused to talk after that.

      To anyone concerned, I had to tell my son what happened because we were all well know in the community and if I hadn’t insisted my fw call him and tell him; someone else would have. (He was stationed in AZ in the AF at the time).

      After that I didn’t involved my son in our D process (1990) and tried to not force him to take sides. Just recently not long before his dad died, my son started pushing me to open up. He told me a lot of issues he had with his dad and his dads whore, in fact it was only my son that kept any kind of connection to his dad at all, as his dad and whore had gone full blown combative. Long story, but mainly the issue was my son and his wife refused to let keep getting away with sneaky shit.

      They were who they were and they were not going to think about anyone but themselves.

  • “I’m really just an innocent bystander.”
    🤣
    Methinks ho doth protest too much.

    “We are now over a year into the relationship and it’s very salient to me to have some sort of relationship with his children.”

    I’m guessing she meant it’s important, but plucked a word she’d heard somewhere from out of her ass without bothering to learn the definition.

    CL is right about the Pinterest board. This gagworthy stream of consciousness reads like a collection of millenial drivel she picked up on various Pinterest boards.

    • Here’s a salient fact for Christine: those kids and Amanda (the chump) are the innocent bystanders in this effed-up situation.

      Christine didn’t look up “salient” so maybe she doesn’t really know what “innocent” or “bystander” mean either. #wordsarehard

  • “The love he has for those children is so beautiful and wish more men in the world were more like him.”

    My favorite line. Yes we need way more of these dirt bag ass wipes in the world.

    • That “beautiful” love where you father illegitimate siblings, don’t fight for your kids in court, don’t financially support them, and show up only few times a year.

      • Ten bucks says Christine doesn’t even know about the illegitimate kid. Why would the Cheater Pants bother to tell her? The illegitimate one does not support his narrative to Christine.

    • It’s such a classic deadbeat dad move. Convince idiots that you’re a good father by throwing yourself on the couch and sobbing about how much you love and miss them, imply or outright claim that the mother is the one “keeping the kids from me” out of bitterness or in some way preventing the mending of the rift, in order to distract from the fact that you actually do jack-diddly-squat in terms of real parenting and actively avoid having to do so. It shocks me that there are still women and others out there stupid enough to fall for it.

      • After D-Day #2 my FW sent a message to AP that he “wasn’t going to lose his wife and son to his sinful lust” and she should never contact him again. A month later, he reached out to her. So resolved, these FWs.

      • Any possibility he has OW convinced that their marriage was falling apart, wifey had agreed to their relationship,he has paid all child support etc etc. OW may just be a clueless airhead. She is clearly in the dark about who he is and could be lacking in gray matter.

    • ABSOLUTLY! This dude is the WORST example of a man! She has no clue the Karma bus is already behind her! What a fool. All those poor children with such shitty examples (on FW’s side) in their lives. I hope the Amanda of this can keep her kids away from these assholes. Those types are exactly what we don’t need more of!

  • Drooling Syphilitic Weasel: “I in no way want to be looked at as a drooling syphilitic weasel.”

    #WeAllWantStuff #YouAreWhatYouDo

    • #YouAreWhatYouDo

      “Officer, I’m not an arsonist” says the woman holding a match and a can of gas. And I’m convinced they actually believe their own delusional thinking. It’s how they can look at themselves in the mirror.

    • When I discovered my husbands hooker habit and cried: I thought we were a team in life, each others one and onlys! (Like he always used to say). His reply: ‘that is what I want too for us.’ Uhm, no you dont spend 60000 euro on other pussy when you want that. ‘But thats not who I want to be.’ But you are! His final words: ‘i may not have been a good husband over all but I am a good father’. Howwww can he possibly think that when he had unsafe sex with prostitutes when I was pregnant, spend entire college tuitions in whores and has lived as a Total fake and hypocrite? Not to mention bombed their safety and family life as they knew it. He lives for his image as good family man, not the actual reality of it. I dont understand how you can live with yourself when your actions dont matter as long as nobody knows.

      • Yes to all this, Rosie. And what is worse is that usually for the kids’ sake or others, the chump can’t go broadcasting about the hooker habit or the graphic porn or the endless cheating. The silence, misperception, and repulsion are all part of the triple-shit sandwich. I’m grateful you could share here with others who totally get it – like me. Yes, he is a total and complete fake. Yes, he is a total and complete hypocrite. I guess these creeps have to find a shred of self-respect to hang onto? I bought groceries. I fed the cat. Me? I’d go straight to a convent in the farthest regions and beg forgiveness to the end of my days. Him? Not so much.

        • Exactly! I want to spare the children, who look up to him immensly, the sordid evil truth about their father, but eventually they will figure out something is missing: truthfullness, humanity, empathy, any deep emotion at all. I see now clearly who he is and it cant be unseen. But it is indeed a triple shit sandwich to have to keep the secret for him, or to carry the shame. Just so unfair. Thanks for understanding. 11 months past d-day and a scat and personal therapist further He says he is mindful about doing things around the house now, and want to live caring joyfully ‘so I will get appreciated’. His reformed behaviour is still all about his little ego in need of kibbles. And empathy, real regret, he is still not able too, still defending ‘all the good things he did’. He will not stand for me making him feel like a lousy human being, and so forth. Sometimes I hope he just drops dead (so sad but true), he seems so incapable of any realness. I can do nothing else but let go. I dont want to be retraumatized by his coldness and insincerety over and over again. And i have fallen out of love with this perverted stranger. People have divorced for less than a shitshow like this.

          • You speak the truth. We have to ACT on anger or we will literally stew in the sick muck of their mess. The kids know, especially when given the choice between stability, consistency, integrity. They know for sure, but they will learn respect when you leave and model acceptable values and mightiness. It’s a slog of pain, but if only for self-respect (to look self in mirror), it is worth it. ☺️

          • Throwing up the caution flag on “sparing” the children. I did too and kept 90% of his shit from them. He died and now is not the time to tell them so they think Im a bit of an ass for not missing him more.

            You also ought not bo too pushy about them learning it either…quit protecting him and let consequences arrive in a natural, organic manner

          • “I want to spare the children…”. How sad so many people here want to spare their children from the truth.

      • I also got “But that’s not who I want to be!” after I busted him sexting another woman. But that’s who you are and what you’re choosing to do over and over for *checks* three months.

        My favourite though was after seeing those very graphic sexts & photo between him this lady. She was on the larger side and not at all conventionally attractive. I was literally still holding the phone when he told me “how do you ever think I could find someone like THAT attractive??” BECAUSE I SAW YOUR ERECT MEMBER IN RESPONSE TO HER NUDES, ASSHOLE.

        I did leave immediately and I like to thank his blazing stupidity for that.

    • Tempting, but probably not best strategy to share private, peer support blog with manipulative abusers.

  • Yet more evidence that these homewreckers are as twisted as the partners that they snare. The logic and lack of decent human behavior is shocking, but it makes perfect sense to them.

    It really doesn’t make the pain less, but that level of crazy is just more proof that you are better off divorced. I’m sorry that Christine has to deal with these people long-term.

  • My husband employed a woman whose adult son drove/drives her crazy. For as long as she worked for him her son was in and out of trouble. Good looking guy. Had girlfriends and a couple of kids. Never worked much. Never paid child support. The cops know him. It is obvious he is missing something. He is missing maturity. He got stuck in childhood.
    I write this because you described a child. He uses passive aggressive behaviors to make sure you can’t tell him what to do. He kept your kids overnight and his “Na na na na na!” is another way you know his maturity level. This won’t change. The OW has a wonderful future with him.🙄 She sounds delusional. Water seeks its own level and so does stupid.

    • It seems most of these disordered, cheating twits do not emotionally mature beyond the age of 17.

      Amanda’s story is a classic “why you do not give cheaters second chances”. Rarely does it work out and the cheating abuse just escalates. Glad she got it together and finally filed for divorce.

  • 1. His kids are going to hate you and make your life miserable, understandably so.
    2. Wish I could watch while this partnership blows up in < 5 years.
    3. What's it like to want?

    • I give it less than 5 years. While reading that ridiculous letter it seemed to me that Christine was being bamboozled by cheater saying he was distraught about not being with his kids. Christine seemed desperate to make cheater happy by trying to fix his kid situation. He doesn’t give a rat’s ass about his kids but is using them as an excuse as to why he is checking out of their relationship. Also, my antenna goes up when women start raving about what a great man their partner is when it is quite clear to everyone else they are nothing but

      • My husband moved in with OW (affair had been going on about 4 years at that point). I had lived with him for almost 10 years. OW didn’t have a CLUE what she was really getting into. Real life is nothing like affair la la land. I knew my narcissistic STBX couldn’t keep that charming act up forever. I gave them a year, tops, once they were in the same house.

        They lasted 4 WEEKS.

        NGL, I found that hilarious.

  • Just like with my Ex’s whore, it’s all about the money. The OP doesn’t say but it’s likely, if not now, down the road, that this guy will be on the hook for child support to TWO baby mamas – Amanda and the OW when Amanda was pregnant. The current OW really picked a winner.

    • I am the Amanda from the story! Ding ding ding! You’re correct! He is $6,000 in arrears for me, and about the same in arrears for his affair baby (whom he has never met). So he is roughly about $12,000 in child support arrears right now between the both of us!

      • Ten bucks says your ex hasn’t even told this bitch about the baby from his other mistress. He sounds like a real gem. I’m thrilled you’re outta there and that he was too stupid to even read the court papers.

      • I think he and this OW should get married then she will lose her income tax refunds (to overdue child support payments) for the entirety of her marriage.

      • “So he is roughly about $12,000 in child support arrears right now between the both of us!”

        That’s the “beautiful love.”
        Can it be garnished from his wages or is he deliberately underemployed like so many of these deadbeats?

        • Garnishment was worked into the order. Whatever work he is doing he is doing under the table cause I haven’t seen even a dollar of garnishment! So whatever he’s doing he isn’t getting an actual paycheck for it! 🙄🙄🙄

        • My ex FW is ’employed’ by OW#2. They have it sewn up saying “he doesn’t earn enough” to pay child support or the court ordered debt of £5k which is meant to be garnished from his wages too. (The £5k he still owes me from setting up our would have been ‘family business’ in secret with OW#1 who thought she was his business partner and had split with me because i “had left him and the kids…” (i stayed at my mums for a week due to post natal issues!) He spun that into “she left me and the kids” and felt entitled to start a secret kife with her and a secrwt lufe with OW#2 behind both our backs.)
          He’s a crazy incompetent dipshit!

  • I almost couldn’t finish reading this disgusting email 🤮. If she didn’t want to be known as a “homewrecker” don’t be one. She’s nothing but a Whore who deserves the FW.
    You and your children deserve a happy, healthy life without a cheater.

    • One thing I’d like to say to my XFW’s OW now wifie, “A woman who dates and sleeps with a married man, deserves a pathological lying serial cheater. And a pathological lying serial cheater deserves as his wife a woman who dates and sleeps with married men. You two are perfect for each other.”

      I was a GREAT wife for 20 years! Faithful for all 23 years we were together. Never did anything shady with men behind his back. Never went on secret dates behind his back. Never had secret “friendships” with a harem of men. I DESERVE a man version of me! 🙂

      • Same. Good and faithful wife for 29 years. Post divorce, I learned from a very reliable source that he had been having relationships with prostitutes for years. He apparently preferred the “girlfriend experience”. 🙄 He is now married to one of them – a massage parlor girl. As far as I know, she is still plying her trade, as he is lazy and doesn’t want to work. He told me that she no longer massages men – only women – so that makes it OK. Idiot!

        I have no doubt the honeymoon is now over, as it’s not as much of a thrill without the sneaking around and betrayal. Living with a person day in and day out is much less fun than clandestine fuck sessions. I’m sure they are both back to their default behaviors. And maybe that works for them. I must be getting closer to meh, as I really don’t care. They deserve each other. 😂

        • “I have no doubt the honeymoon is now over, as it’s not as much of a thrill without the sneaking around and betrayal. Living with a person day in and day out is much less fun than clandestine fuck sessions. I’m sure they are both back to their default behaviors. And maybe that works for them. I must be getting closer to meh, as I really don’t care. They deserve each other. 😂”

          My logic, too. Half the fun must be the naughtiness of it all. Take that away and…yawn.

          I have no problem with people who prefer “the girlfriend experience” as long as they don’t marry.
          But these sickos DO marry because sneaking around on the chump gives them the sadistic high they crave.

        • I think my husband will end up with one of his hoes as well. What other woman would want a hooker addict? Unless he lies about it, but that he would never do again… right?
          You are right. These people deserve each other.

  • “FW was very honest with me in the beginning of the relationship of you guys situation and where it was headed.”

    This part triggered me, I’m not gonna lie, but then I laughed at the sheer stupidity of it. I got so much of this. “Well, he’s always been honest to ME!” or “Well, I knew you guys were having problems…” Oh? That must have been nice for you. I didn’t know. How lovely you were all honest about my marriage behind my back and didn’t bother to clue me in on anything. That hurt so bad for a long time.

    But when I think about it? How stupid. They pretty much deserve what they get at that point. If I knew of a man who led a double life would I trust him in any way? No. I wouldn’t even let him clean my car, he’d probably steal my change… or my identity from my registration information. The Christines of the world have some evil in them, they gloat about doing evil things, but they’re also unbelievably stupid.

    She’s also a bad mother. She loves your kids so much she returned them to you dirty, tired, hungry, miserable, and afraid? Yeah, ok. How fast did she have your ex husband staying over with her children in her home? She doesn’t care about children, not even her own. I feel sorry for her kids. I wouldn’t do anything to make it easier for her to have access to hers. She’s one of those moms who gets her kids raped by her boyfriends with her irresponsibility. She’s a mom who doesn’t bother feeding her kids. She’s garbage. I wouldn’t ever speak to her. I’d just delete her wall of text and block her.

    • Why would you trust a man who is cheating on his wife to tell you the truth about his relationship with his wife? From a lying liar who lies—but not to YOU because your special?! Delusional.

      One of my FWs gfs (while we were married) was so upset with him that he cheated on HER! I saw the emails after the fact as he was discarding her. What did you expect? Not karma? Too bad I believed his genuine fake Naugahyde remorse and spent another ten years in RIC on the hook for the sake of the kids. Did the serial cheating stop? No. He just got better at hiding it. 🤮

      A smart person would ask what he wants from them and then recognize that a FW cheater will spin the narrative to get what he wants. Kibbles, sEx, attention, adoration, flying monkey, loyalty, someone willing to ignore the facts and defend him without examining the truth too closely or help him avoid consequences so he can live in LALA land. There is no truth with FW cheaters, only the spin they put on everything which is always always manipulation.

      • What’s worse to a schmoopie than having a married FW “cheat” on them? Maybe having a married FW try and fail to “cheat” on them. One of the last things FW admitted during the “full disclosure” part of the otherwise waste-of-time RIC disaster is that FW had batted out several times with married office flirts before finally finding someone willing to actually follow through and bonk him. Furthermore he’d doubled back and tried again with an earlier target during the affair but was, D’Oh, rejected again. He never told the OW about any of it. But I knew later from the timeline that FW had been horribly depressed each time he was rejected. When these things happened he’d pretended that his raging depressions were my fault or due to the terrible burden of supporting a family. What a douche.

        Chumps may discover successful “conquests” but what about all the failures? Odds are there had to have far more failed than successful attempts to cheat and I would imagine– given that narcissism is so central to cheating– that there’s even more shame surrounding the failures than fear of having the “successes” discovered. Cheaters might be even more loath to admit the times they got toyed with and rejected.

        In any event, rarely do schmoopies look like top shelf options, more like the bottom of the barrel fallbacks. And I had the feeling that a lot of the DARVO attacks that cheaters make on chumps are really about displaced rage and dejection from getting repeatedly burned and rejected in the meat market– as will happen if someone ventures into the meat market. I imagine repeat narcissistic injuries like this would only increase FW’s frantic requirements for over-the-top ego kibbles from a schmoopie who’s in the throes of frantically pickme dancing to compete with an unwitting chump. Meanwhile the chump has no idea all this self-induced, self-perpetuating vicious cycle is taking place while being used as a whipping boy for it.

    • “How lovely you were all honest about my marriage behind my back and didn’t bother to clue me in on anything. That hurt so bad for a long time.”

      That is a horrible feeling. To find out fw was bad mouthing me to his whore, and they were planning my discard in their pillow talk was horrible to come to terms with. All the while he was doing that, I was doing his laundry, cooking his meals, running his errands, doing volunteer work he asked me to do (to benefit him), and having what I thought was an exclusive intimate life with him. I was all in, and he and his whore were planning my destruction between orgasms.

      Do I feel sorry for her that she is now living in a run down trailer, paying off the debt he left her with on a small SS pension. There was no life insurance or savings or investments; he gambled all that away. No, I don’t. She reaped what she sowed.

  • “Because I love him so much, I love those kids just as much. It hurts me to see him down and crying about his children and I hate feeling like I’m a part of the issue as to why he can’t see them even though I’m really just an innocent bystander.”

    Herein lies the truth. Her lack of character and integrity, insecurities, immaturity, and inability to recognize a broken manchild when she’s with him is causing HER conscience and guilt to trigger. She knows better, doesn’t care, wants what’s in it for HER, and is trying to manipulate the Chump to shape-up so that HER weak relationship with Cheater might improve.

    Don’t respond, Amanda. You’re 9/10 of the way there! Get to the finish line and don’t look back.

  • This is what is happening, 100%… FW is picking fights with OW because (duh) he isn’t happy and he is blaming HER for not being able to see these children he claims to love. OW only choice is to reach out and try to make it better in order to keep that hard won FW. Bet.

    • Yep. Under the obvious BS, there’s the waft of OW’s desperate Pick Me-ing. The honeymoon’s over and fuckwit is up to his old tricks.

      • Yup FW is shouting ‘dance harder bitch’ and the stupid bint has got those dancing shoes on so damn tight the blood has exploded in her tiny brain!!

        I want to ram that load of bollocks right down her throat.

  • This is like a meme I saw. It read: “Nobody rides for a deadbeat dad like a new girlfriend who believes he’s being kept from his kids.”
    Also, I’m dating myself here, but I’m getting Terms Of Endearment vibes… when Flap’s mistress tells Emma “There’s no feeling you’re having that I can’t validate.”
    The letter writer Amanda is a rockstar and a badass. She’s the sane parent who understands that fuckwits gonna fuckwit and their twu wuvs are gonna come and go. That her ex has such limited contact with the kids will hopefully mean that they’re less affected by his chaos and fuckery.
    Amanda, you are mighty!

  • Amanda, knowing you can chuckle about this is good. Keep that attitude. I have a sneaking suspicion that OW already knows that she’s acquired a Fuckwit but is in denial and thinks she can ‘help’ him become a good man. While I was not the OW, I can relate to her letter. I may have married that type of man. But, it also allows me to understand my ex’s first wife in a much different light. She was probably fucked over by him, just like me.

    I suspect this OW knows he’s a crappy father and man, and is overcompensating. She did the pick me dance and won the booby prize, and now she wants to reassure herself that she has made the right choice. Fuck her and fuck him. You were strong and mighty, and that will carry you and your children.

  • The entitlement, presumption and gaslighting here is off the charts. Tracy’s UBT did a great job. Is this OW so delusional that she thinks Amanda will believe any of this? Does she really think she is as virtuous and morally upstanding as she professes? Or maybe an attempt to get Amanda to provide the funds and effort for joint holidays and celebrations.

    I wondered if this is part of a ploy to get decreased custody payments by seeking more parenting time, but Amanda wrote, “He is responsible for paying for the supervised visits, which he hasn’t done,” Does this mean the payments or the visits or both? How can he want more parenting time, per the OW, if he isn’t using what he gets?
    One thing I don’t get from Amanda is this: “He only asks to see them on birthdays or holidays, and always shows up to my house on those occasions with gifts, so he is Disneyland dad!” If he’s supposed to pay for supervised visits, why are you letting him show up to your house to see them? If you allow it, the court may decide that you are agreeing to let him see the kids outside the supervised visits, and discontinue them.

    I am in awe that Amanda found this letter hilarious. I found it incredibly triggering, and I don’t have to deal with any of this, since I have sole custody and decision making. Here’s what set me off:

    “Since the beginning of my relationship with FW I’ve had nothing but respect and best wishes for you in your healing and in your future.”
    I respected you so much that I knowingly had an affair with him and wrecked your marriage and your home.

    “I in no way want be looked at as a home wrecker” because I want respect. Look at me, I actually brought TWO homes together!

    “I hope you don’t have some sort of animosity or anger towards me.” I did you a favor by creating two homes where your children can be happy, instead of one unhappy one.

    “I’m really just an innocent bystander.” My affair with your husband had nothing to do with breaking up your marriage.

    “I also want to thank you for thinking of my children on a couple occasions by giving them Halloween candy and giving them food that they liked.” And you know those holidays and birthdays I want to celebrate together? Let’s do them at your place and your expense because we have those pesky child support payments.

    Amanda, other than the initial time before your custody order, when did your kids see her and her kids? If she is bringing them to the supervised visits, that may be another violation of the custody order for supervised visits. FW should show up to supervised visits without them, otherwise they are having visitation outside of supervision, even a few minutes in the waiting room or parking lot. Most supervised visits require no contact except while the supervisor is actively supervising, meaning staggered arrival and departure times so there is no unsupervised overlap.

    • Hi goodfriend! Thank you for your comment and questions so I can clarify! I am the Amanda from the story!

      Before I got the official custody order in January he had seen them maybe 5 times, where he had taken them to the park (or a hotel the first time on Father’s Day) and each time Christine was there with her kids.

      After I got my custody order and the divorce was final and I was able to tell him he is not allowed to leave or take them anywhere. However, because I am too nice, I had agreed to let him come to my house to see them three times. On the third time, he showed up with his brother, his brothers fiancé and their 3 kids, Christine, and her two kids and they had a little play date in my driveway for an hour. After that I told him that he had pushed mu boundaries far enough and he was no longer allowed to break the custody order and he had to pay for the visits through the court moving forward.

      He has still not done that (the last visit was in March). The next couple times he had asked after that ridiculous encounter had been for my daughters birthday, and then my oldest sons birthday. I agreed that he could come drop off his gifts for them to the house, but he had to come alone or he would not be allowed in. I only allowed it because it was for the kids and their birthdays, BUT the most recent time he came for my oldest sons birthday, he brought Christine’s kids with him while she waited in the car (this was the same day I got that text from her, so I know she was hoping I would invite her in after it).

      So now we are back to him pushing boundaries too far and I will no longer be giving in and letting him come to the house at all, he will now absolutely be required to go through the court and get the supervision because he just thinks he will keep getting away with it. You’re right, I don’t want the court to take away thy stipulation out of the custody agreement, so I will no longer be bending the rules for him!

      • So this guy stomps boundaries every time and continues to do so by giving your number to his latest whore so SHE can fight his battles for him. Be careful of this guy, he seems to get a rise out of sticking it to you. That’s some sadism. 100% stick to the court orders, NO more favors or bending the rules, and start documenting if you haven’t already. He’ll cause more problems if you give him an inch.

      • “this was the same day I got that text from her, so I know she was hoping I would invite her in after it).”

        Wow. She is next level delusional.

        “I will no longer be giving in and letting him come to the house at all, he will now absolutely be required to go through the court and get the supervision”

        Excellent. You’re doing it right.

  • This was a triggery one for me! Amanda’s FW reminds me so of my FW! Supremely selfish, and probably Borderline, or something like it.
    All I can come up with is- Christine, you bought it, now you own it. Watch out for that karma bus, it’s coming for sure.

  • I’m sure you know what I think of you. If you are to be helpful to my children as they navigate childhood, while you are in their lives, kindly make the child support payments the legal and moral priority the courts have mandated. Also, as the children may visit their father, I will reiterate the court’s and my reasonable expectation that they are kept safe physically and emotionally, fed appropriate and timely meals, picked up and returned to their home as scheduled, with access to personal hygiene such as clean bathrooms, bathing facilities, privacy to bathe and dress, and individual beds with clean sheets.

  • Christine, I don’t think of you as a home wrecker. I don’t think of you at all.
    p.s. tell devoted dad to send child support.

  • It’s so cute that Christine thinks that the FW was honest about his relationship with Amanda… keep telling yourself that honey, maybe it will make your own DD easier to cope with… because I feel sure it’s coming…FWs never change.

    • I wouldn’t respond, except with an order from an attorney to garnish wages.
      Amanda, I’m sorry you had to deal with OW & cheater while pregnant. And you got away. You rock!

  • As the best friend of Amanda, and someone who has seen this whole thing play out, I just want to say: this is only the TIP OF THE ICEBERG when it comes to how delusional, manipulative, and narcissistic these two are! Here are a few more highlights from the past:
    -They got matching couples tattoos within *days* of knowing each other to prove their “loyalty” (aka insecurities)
    -FW wouldn’t tell his kids the OW’s real name for months, and simply referred to her as “Mystery” to help keep her anonymous (which was SO laughable because we knew Christine’s entire name, address, criminal history, place of employment, kids names, etc.) from DAY 1. So no one was actually fooled except for FW looking like a fool…
    -As mentioned he only reaches out on holidays, yet has to ask what size clothing/shoes they are (and what their interests are) EVERY. DAMN. TIME. Yet he should be “respected”.
    -Back in the day, when trying to convince Amanda to marry him, he cited a “religious epiphany” he was having and said it was a sin to God to be unwed but living in the same house. The religiousness ended immediately after getting married (which didn’t age well, CLEARLY). True man of the Lord!
    -Not related to the affairs, but just a fun fact: FW can’t hold down a steady job (go fucking figure) but here are a few of his failed business strategies: clothing designer, drug seller, actor, “producer”, professional video game player, youtube influencer (with only 63 followers), male model (lmao), etc. HES JUST WAITING FOR HIS BIG BREAK, PEOPLE!

    Thank God this tool didn’t have enough common sense (or intelligence) to read the papers he was served and fight for custody. Trust me when I say he’s the WORST. Biggest joke of a human in America.

    • The BFF, sounds to me like he lives off women. And he’s got another meal ticket, doesn’t he? I wonder if OW will marry him after the divorce?

      • Oh he is already engaged to her! Got engaged to her about 2 weeks after the divorce was final! So it’s just a matter of time before they make it official I assume! 🤣

    • “here are a few of his failed business strategies: clothing designer, drug seller, actor, “producer”, professional video game player, youtube influencer (with only 63 followers), male model (lmao), etc.”

      😆 What a classic NPD douchenozzle. The failed “careers”, the unpaid debts, the dreams of attaining fame without talent are a pattern with these people.

      “HES JUST WAITING FOR HIS BIG BREAK, PEOPLE!”

      Only break he’s ever going to get is his jaw when he fucks somebody’s wife.

    • Has he tried Only Fans or making a porno yet? Sounds just like the kind of upstanding, quality individual who might go that route with his ‘special lady’ Christine.

  • If it feels good, don’t do it……doing my best not to forward this to my ex with the hopes that his homewrecker will read it (like she would care at all, she got her green card and his soft dick, she won after all)…..I’m certain she feels the same way as Christine, except she’s made it clear by her actions that she doesn’t love my kids, all she wants is a clear conscience and my exes bank account…who are these people? How do their brains function? Do they have no shame? Triggered by this immensely. Pissed that the world is becoming so accepting of infidelity that it gives cheaters more room to be delusional that the problem is the innocent chump….

  • Sounds like OW is starting to suspect that all the stories FW was spinning about his “situation” were not necessarily the truth – especially if he’s starting to “work late” and be protective of his phone, just like he did when they were having their grand romance. I don’t know if she is even aware she’s doing it, but she’s trying to get Amanda to talk to her because she needs a reality check about the FW.

    That’s her problem, obviously.

    Amanda, you are also showing some incredible grace here by treating your children’s half-siblings with decency. They didn’t choose their parents.

  • Oh Christine, you stupid summer child, you have no idea that your Twu Luv owes his children $6,000 or how the current custody agreement came to fruition do you? You have absolutely no clue that the dirtbag you won didn’t fight one bit for his children. That he’s not doing right by his children. I bet you hold him as he cries over how cruel this mighty chump has been because you don’t know what an utter shitbag he is and that he has nothing to support his children or do the freaking court ordered work so he could prove he wanted to be a part of their lives.
    I’m also willing to bet that when he sniffles and inches closer to you for comfort, he tells you he can’t see his children because our mighty chump doesn’t like you. And thus he escapes having to acknowledge his many shortcomings, shifts the blame to *you*

    Amanda, a huge round of applause for you that you kicked this turd burger to the curb.

  • If I roll my eyes any harder at this whale Christine they would get stuck in my head. FW probably cheating on her already and she’s too stupid to realize it 😂 can’t wait till she’s the other woman yet again.

  • “ It hurts me to see him down and crying about his children and I hate feeling like I’m part of the issue as to why he can’t see them even though I’m really just an innocent bystander.”

    Don’t you just hate knowing a serial cheating coward is crying about his children? I heard similar reports delivered by the OW to adult children and granddaughter. No one really cares. What a prize they win, playing mommy to an adult who acts like he’s seven years old.

  • I think OW knows FW looks bad to all her friends and family for not seeing the kids. She is sensing that they are not believing her when she tells them “FW doesn’t see the kids because ex wife keeps them from him”. She doesn’t like the looks they give when she says “supervised visitation” and needs this to end.

  • OMG – this brings back memories of the OW in my life. This line specifically: “Since the beginning of my relationship with FW I’ve had nothing but respect and best wishes for you in your healing and in your future.” My OW said something along the same lines (The UBT had fun with her letter as well). But honestly – you were fucking my husband (she was also my best friend – so extra for me! Yay.) while always holding me and my feelings in the utmost respect and esteem – wanting nothing but the best for me as you destroyed my family. She is a piece of shit, feels very guilty, will blame you if there is no relationship because she’s exonerated herself with this piece of dribble.
    You don’t owe this woman anything. She is a liar. She has the moral integrity of a snail. All the flowery words in the world do not take away from: I cheated you. I betrayed you. I didn’t know you, but I knew of you and I did it anyway because my feelings are more important than yours. But now I think we should pal up. Fuck her.

    Here was my letter as analyzed by the UBT:
    https://www.chumplady.com/2021/08/ubt-i-know-my-truth/

  • Amanda, thanks for responding, above.
    You keep showing your mightiness. When he showed up unexpectedly at your home with his brother, brother’s fiancé, their 3 kids, plus Christine and her two kids, they weren’t planning to have a play date in your driveway for an hour, they were pressuring you into inviting them all inside–that’s why he had his his bro’s family there, either to justify letting Christine and her kids inside, or, to have witnesses that you were “unreasonable” in refusing to give them access to your home and forcing them to play in your driveway, instead.
    When my Grandson (I have custody) was young, we went through the whole gamut of supervision, starting with supervision at Dad’s home by Dad’s friends; then at my ex’s home with my ex’s friends (while we were married; they wanted to be Switzerland friends when we divorced); then by an organization that supervised visits at their facility (a house) by having a staff member follow them the entire time, taking notes to document all interactions; and finally therapeutic supervised visits in one room with a professional therapist present. At each level, he pushed boundaries and rules, such as bringing his new dog, bringing his fiancé and her kids, etc., bringing gifts, anything that allowed him to do something other than parent one-to-one. Until we got to the final level, he got away with a lot–his friends weren’t present and observing, and he convinced some of my ex’s friends to allow him some private father and son time. He even pulled this with the first therapist he found to supervise; I caught her leaving them alone three times while she was busy in other parts of the building. He wasn’t just being a Disney dad, he was outright trying to bribe child by bringing lots of gifts and showing pictures of lots more, claiming they were waiting at his house. And he promised that if child lied about abuse, he would take him to Disneyland.
    Amanda, It seems very odd that the time he kept them overnight, they went to a hotel instead of staying at fiancee’s home. Did she even have one? Is it too small to accommodate the kids? And what kind of loons force multiple kids who don’t know each other, including a five year old girl, to sleep in the same bed?
    Clearly people with no boundaries. Too bad you can’t build a wall out of their BS.
    I get the feeling that Christine feels entitled to using YOUR home if possible, and expects you to provide for her kids as well as your own. Congratulations on shutting that down. I suggest you document every interaction in real time, in case he decides to challenge the current arrangement in court. And if he does get around to supervised visits, tell whoever is supervising about how they’ve pushed boundaries.

    • Hi Goodfriend! You’re a treasure for taking custody of your grandson! We have a similar situation there too. My oldest son is my step-son, his biological mother asked me and FW to take him back in 2018 because she could no longer provide for him. We have had him full-time ever since (she lives in a different state). I have nothing but respect for his bio-mom to take a step back and realize that she isn’t what is best for her child and to want him to thrive, thus giving him to me and FW full-time.

      As soon as I kicked FW out, I reached out to bio-mom and told her what was going on and she asked me not to let FW take our son. She granted me legal guardian and gave me legal, educational, and medical rights to him; so I fought for him like I did my own bio-kids. He is just as much my son as my blood babies; and I love him more than anything! I am the only mom he knows (he was 3 when we got him), and he knows he is safe and loved with me! My FW of course tried to play the “my son” card with me multiple times at the beginning, to which I shot that down real quick!

      Anyway! You’re amazing for taking your grandson, he is lucky to have you! 💜

      As far as why they went to a hotel; they do not have room at OW’s place, the 4 of them live in a 1 bedroom apartment an hour away from my house. So they stayed at the hotel because it was close to my house and they could use the hotel pool the next day all day.

      I couldn’t agree more with you! What kind of mother brings a strange man into her house two weeks after they met with two young sons at home! I know I sure as hell wouldn’t have! Her and I are not the same, so when she wanted to come to me “mother to mother” or “woman to woman” I couldn’t help but laugh, cause we are NO WHERE near the same type of woman or mother! This also confirms your point of expecting to be able to use my house for events because I have a 23,000 sq ft home with 4 bedrooms and a loft, compared to their 900 sq ft, 1 bedroom apartment!

      I truly don’t think he will ever get around to the supervised visitation since he is the one responsible for paying for it and setting it up.. 🙄🙄

      • Amanda, reading what you have given to your stepson brings tears to my eyes. Your FW never deserved you, and he sure as hell never deserved that fierce loyalty and protection you have given to your stepson. I have no words for my admiration.

    • This☝🏻. I’m three years post divorce. My ex-FW tried to pull this too, involving gf or other people in visitation. I shut it down.

      Visitation is about the kids having FW parent’s undivided attention—on THEM. Not supervising other kids, not on Schmoopie, not finding distractions and entertainment so that he doesn’t have to do any work, parenting or hold a conversation. (Spoiler: the kids do a wonderful grey rock and FW never volunteers ANYTHING about his personal life so the conversations are meaningless non-existent trolling for information by FW dad).

      ExFW does not get a bye on visitation; he already ruined his relationship with his kids and has ‘opted-out’ of the daily parenting gig (how is this even legal?). Since he cancelled his subscription to parenting and family 1.0, he will get no assistance from me with his relationship with his (my) kids. They are old enough that when he asked about them, I told him to ask them. I will not play the go-between or do any of his parenting for him ever again. #boundaries He no longer asks. This is my solution to ‘what size are they’ ‘what do they like?’. The only thing I control at this point is the calendar and tracking our obligations to say yea or nay to an outing. However I do encourage the kids to go and am pretty flexible about making them available.

      I also do not allow ExFW to come on my property or pick up the kids anywhere in my neighborhood or at school or daycare. I do not like him to drive them either as he has multiple DUIs. I will drop the kids off to meet him where we have agreed and usually hang out pretty close, out of sight, reading or getting a coffee until they are done. Its usually an hour or two for a meal; they had dinner recently but FW dad had been absent for over a year with one and seven months with the other prior to that. Not going to bend over backwards for a FW who only periodically remembers he has kids.

      Obviously this would not work for chumps who have to give over whole weekends at FW dads but fortunately my exFW has never taken the kids for more that a few hours at a time. Unbelievable, I know. I count my blessings, for sure.

      We have a fairly standard visitation but in three years he has not taken any of his specified days or weeks. Just a quick outing once in awhile on the odd weekend. Thankfully he pays what was agreed and relatively on time.

      Courts do not approve only-supervised visits frivolously. There has to be a darn bad reason Ops FW can’t have the kids freely. Don’t throw that gift away by going soft on him or they will recind it.

  • Amanda, darlin’! Just forward CL’s response to ol’ what’s-her- face. Holy 💩! This woman is a perfect match for FW.

  • Reading between the lines, I think he has fed her a line of bullsh*t about why he doesn’t see the children more. I know the conventional wisdom is not to reply but I think I would very succinctly.
    1) The court ordered supervised visitation based on fuckwit’s behavior. He is always welcome to see the children when he can arrange supervised visitation as required by the court.
    2) It would be more believable that loser cares about his children if he wasn’t $6,000 in arrears.

    I would bet money that this loser is telling her “we can’t have the children because SHE won’t let you see them, I have to go alone” and that he’s “paying” support when really he’s seeing his other side piece and spending the money on her.

    Blow his game up.

    • Yeah, maybe a quick something like “Actions speak louder than words. If FW truly wants to be a parent again, he needs to start paying child support and attending his supervised visits. Until he takes these actions, all his words about how much he misses his children and would do anything for them are meaningless.”

      If I wanted to be snarky, I’d add “As for you, what you ‘want be looked at as’ does not change what you did, nor does it change the fact that I have no wish to speak to you – especially not about my children.” But, following the rule of IIFGD, I’d probably just say “Also, I have no interest in discussing my ex husband or my children with you. Please do not contact me again, or I will block your number.”

  • Oh how I hope he cheats on her in due course (which he will). She is a truly nauseating human being who entirely deserves what’s coming to her. I pity her children having a manipulative, highly narcissistic person like her as their mother. They are going to need all the help they can get. She just sounds 🤢.

  • Every time I read these over-the-top justifications for cheating, I realize that my FW and the OW had similarly bizarre thoughts going through their heads as they destroyed a 30-year marriage. And, I suppose, to live with themselves they continue to cling to their version of truth.

    Hats off to the Mighty Chump, Amanda, for slamming down the bullshit and protecting her kids.

  • Often children and outsiders who have not experienced cheating (that they know of) just don’t get it. My own sons don’t understand why I won’t be friendly with their dad’s widow. She was not OW in our divorce, but she was my nail tech for years. I talked to her many times about his cheating and not paying child support, and not showing up on time for events, and financial crimes against the marriage and the children, and me. She knew who he was before she ever decided to date.

    I thought she was a good Christian woman, because that’s who she represented herself to be. However, Money and Citizenship, and Security were her real gods, so she let another client “set her up” as a date, and eventually he married her. When I found they were dating, our relationship was over. In my world, your friends do not date your husband or even ex-husband. Evidently there are many people who do not understand this boundary. When I find out I have been lied to and about, I realize that I have been duped as a chump, again. I have done a lot of work on my picker, but evidently there is no complete cure for being a chump. I have to be as vigilant about my trusting nature as I do about my type 2 diabetes!

    I do feel sorry, at the beginning, for OW who don’t know they are OW. They have been lied to. What they do when they find out indicates their character. None of them want to believe they were chumped. They want to believe he has changed or will. and their twu luv will sustain. This is a bad bet for them, and if they continue, all my sympathy goes away. If that is being cold hearted, so be it.

    If someone doesn’t pay child support, and beyond that provide for their children, I have no mercy for them at all. They are scum.

  • I couldn’t read all of that even if there were paragraph breaks.

    There is one happy household and that’s all the kids need.

    I’m glad that FW was so lustblind that you got everything, even if the money isn’t there, the kids are.

  • wow……. you think you kinda get a handle on how their minds work…but still it surpasses the imagination!

  • Amanda, I believe she and your FW are heavily into drama. This looooong text was the opening volley to start a war with you to justify FW and OW’s rationalization of you being a kook deserving of being left. Of course you’re aren’t, but they really want the drama they create to show that.

    I’d suggest blocking the OW and having very little to do with her at all. Read through CL’s great post on how to coparent with a narcissist(s) from 8/8/2022. It’ll help!! https://www.chumplady.com/2022/08/how-to-co-parent-with-a-narcissist-2/

    • I wouldn’t block yet. Christine is going to get angry when Amanda continues to ignore her and is eventually going to rage text. This can be used as ammunition for an order of protection, keeping her away from the kids.
      I’m getting a strong whiff of BPD from Christine’s missive, so she will lose her shit at some point. She’s trying (ineptly) to use charm and pity now. When that fails rage will be next.

  • I hope Amanda doesn’t respond at all. That will frustrate this idiot OW to no end. OW’s desperate to tell her side but no response willl lane her wondering if you even got the text and read it :)!

  • The absolutely only time I ever spoke to FW’s fiance (although we were still married) was when he called me at midnight and I answered the call because I wasn’t paying attention. They were both on speaker phone and she went after me for not letting him see our two kids. Telling me that he really missed his kids and I was terrible for not letting them be with him. The situation was as ridiculous as Amanda’s communication from Christine. The OW in my case had 4 kids by different men and she’d raised none of them as she is/was an active heroin addict who floated from guy to guy. My ex FW was also an addict who was pretty absent from the kids’ lives even before I kicked him out of the house. They were delusional. FW was a terrible dad. OW was a terrible mom. They deserved each other. Truly.

    • Good question.

      My fw’s whore had three boys. Two oldest had a stated dad. The youngest carried her maiden name. I have often wondered who his dad was. My son was suspicious that he belonged to his dad, but his dad vehemently denied it. If true that would have meant he was fucking her for half our marriage. The kid was ten when he left me for her.

      I kind of doubt he is because I think if he was, whore would have told my son after same kid died at age 20 in a motorcycle accident. If not then, at least after fw died; for no other reason than to elicit sympathy and perhaps a few bucks from my son.

      She may not even have known who the kids father was. She was a well known town whore. You didn’t hear much about DNA tests back in 1980, which would have been about the time of his birth.

  • I put up with SnakeFace’s betrayal and neglect for far too many years, and my two boys were cheated out of the family and home they could and should have had. But any time I read a story like Amanda’s, I’m glad I hung on until my youngest was out of high school before starting divorce proceedings so that they didn’t have to live with any of that kind of nonsense while they were growing up.

  • This was one of the wildest things I’ve ever read. This Christine woman must be more delusional than the cheater. I’ve received a similar letter from my ex-wife after I divorced her, but I could not imagine ever getting a letter like this from one of her affair partners. I would have absolutely lost my mind. Major props to how well you handled this.

    I’m sorry, but this is so so crazy to me.

  • The mental gymnastics & doses of delusion it must take just to “be” that OW, are way beyond me.

  • When I read this, I didn’t understand what the OW wants, or what the purpose was. Except to defend herself against the label “homewrecker.” But if the shoe fits….

    If it was me, I wouldn’t respond. I hope that’s what Amanda did.

      • Phew! Good for you for not responding. I was so angry when I read this post. I f’n hate her. The OW in my case is super scared of me so I’ve never heard a peep from her. In my case, once the ex figured out that our daughter wasn’t going to play happy families with the two of them, he’s devised a way that OW leaves home when our daughter comes to visit. It’s good in some ways and gutless in others. There’s no right way to deal with these assholes though. They suck. Hugs 💜 She’s an idiot. Stay classy.

  • (1) ChumpLady – you are amazing. Thank you for this.

    (2) Amanda – pleasepleasepleasepleasePLEASE send this to the OW.

  • Ooh, fascinating. When I was editing an environmental health publication and analyzing the PR tactics toxic industries use to deny the human toll of their products/emissions and to discredit and reduce public concern for victims, I was very interested in how deceptive language is used by power and became a fan of Orwell’s and Chomsky’s political language concepts.

    It’s sort of like Where’s Waldo. Just swap out “Waldo” for “the bullshit.” I started to notice that repeat incorrect use of incorrect language and gymnastically awkward phrasing can sometimes be taken as confessions: whatever is being denied is true in the extreme or whatever is claimed is untrue in the extreme. At the very least there’s a bit of doubt there. There are some famous examples of this in history, like the term “the disappeared.” More than forty years ago Argentine military dictator Videla mutated an instransitive verb into a passive verb form (“they have been disappeared”) and an improbable noun (“they are the disappeared”) in order to avoid assigning human status to the junta’s 30K victims (“it [victims] is without entity”) and to avoid reference to responsible actors in the victims’ disappearances. You can watch the speech here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASMPYg0YueU From there the mutant term became a mutant verb (“to disappear someone”) that’s been translated into every major language on the planet to indicate extrajudicial state killing. About ten years ago the US declassified an exchange between Videla and Kissinger in which Videla asks for permission to kill off dissidents and Kissinger responds, “Just do it quickly.”

    Anyway, the OW shows at least some ability to construct cohesive sentences but makes a dozen or so gaffs and obvious Freudian slips (“I want to keep him from his responsibilities as a father”). But the really standout trashy punctuation and syntax appear in statements that are flamingly false according to the OW’s and FW’s behavior:

    “I in no way want be looked at as a home wrecker”: “I enjoyed it but don’t call me one.”
    “we spoke positivity into your life and heart”: “We trashed you every chance we got.”
    “I we want everything good that can come to you”: “We would like to disappear you.”

    The super trashy phrasing is a bit like those red Xs Digsafe agencies spray around construction sites to indicate the location of live power lines underground. Danger, danger, don’t dig here! Live subtext!

    Then there’s the repeat “you guys situation.” First, she can’t even call a marriage a marriage. Can’t wreck a marriage if you erase it and call it a situationship! And no apostrophe because that would indicate possession or, even worse, shared possession. That non-marriage situationship didn’t even belong to the parties involved. It was something illusory that just appeared and disappeared, like a Fata Morgana. FW must deny it and Amanda was never in possession of it. And the OW’s fears of drifting along in a mere situationship herself are dispelled if she can externalize it!

    Confession: I am in a situationship. I’ve only ever been in situationships. That’s why I wreck marriages.

    Even more interesting is that the OW repeatedly assigns Amanda the wrong gender. OW calls herself a woman twice but only refers to Amanda’s actual gender either as “mother” or when exhorting Amanda to keep her word (to let the OW be around Amanda’s kids). Otherwise Amanda is apparently a “guy.” Maybe it indicates that the OW suspects the sole value she has to the FW is a vagina if, in her mind, she has to erase the same in the imagined rival. Even in that sense the OW seems to doubt the relative value of her vagina (too much traffic? Too many yeast infections? Fertility issues?). She may worry about femininity. The latter bit is referenced in a study of female intra-sexual competition for mates and mate-poaching and the tendency of particularly aggressive women to disguise hostility lest they be viewed as unfeminine, particularly when attacks on other women’s femininity are a chief means of taking out the competition.

    Even the attempt to feign pozzy-positive thinking and pure intentions seems like a bid to outdo Amanda. I’m guessing Amanda has a pretty kind demeanor. But the OW can top that!!!

    Meanwhile the OW was just as responsible for sending Amanda’s kids back from a hotel dirty and exhausted and one crying and terrified (“I’m not here to try to act like their mother.” No kidding). FW won’t pay court ordered support and OW obviously isn’t demanding FW meet his obligations as a condition of their, er, situationship. Aside from fucking a married dad, that’s about the sum of Schmoopie.

  • My take on it is that they are getting bored. There is no one to triangulate with, so it’s no fun! Trying to get you to take the bait. What and who will they talk about if you don’t engage? How is she supposed to keep doing the pick me dance, if you have stopped. The thrill is gone.

    • YES. And that is why no response is best.

      There came a point where I was done engaging with my stbx (other than the most minimal necessary communication regarding our kid and selling our house) and stepped out of the triangle. I stopped caring what the two of them did. I tried my best to just accept that I had no control over what happened when my kid was in their house, and just focused on being a good parent on my end. I started filling my life with good things rather than obsessing over what I had lost.

      From what I can gather, without the triangulation, FW could no longer vent his rage on me (because I ignored his attempts to bait me) nor use my reactions as an excuse for his angry outbursts. And so he turned his anger on OW. Their relationship imploded.

      They bonded over their hatred of their respective spouses. They NEEDED the drama because that was what their relationship was based on. There was nothing solid or stable underneath. You’re right – the thrill was gone. They moved in together and had to deal with three kids under 10, money problems, chores, etc. It’s hardly the romantic weekend getaways and the exhilaration of sneaking around for stolen moments.

      They no longer had centrality in my life, in spite of their attempts, and narcissistic people MUST be important or they feel like they are losing their identity.

      FW ended up killing himself after OW left. He felt abandoned. She wasn’t answering his calls and he couldn’t get her back. I had no sympathy for him (he tried to hoover me in).

      After he died, OW tried to stay relevant in my life for whatever reason, texting, emailing, and calling me. I don’t know whether she thought we’d bond over this, or over our “shared” abuse at his hands, or what. I shut that down pretty quickly.

      As tempting as it is to answer these assholes with snarky retorts, the most distressing thing you can do to them is refuse to engage. At all. It drives them mad.

    • A chump’s lawyer might want to see letters or emails like that in case they contained threats that could be used legally to get an order of protection or to ensure chumped children never had contact with that person.

  • Amanda, I could not resist some editing to better reflect what goes on in Christine’s demented brain. Hope you enjoy a trip inside the mind of an asshole with borderline personality disorder.

    “Hey Amanda.
    This is long and I fake apologize for that, but I demand you take the time to read my screed. Since it’s been over a year and we haven’t been properly introduced my name is CHRISTine 16. This is long overdue and I’m more of an in your face person but I can understand how that may not be ok with you yet and I will respect that for five minutes. I’ve been wanting to squeak to you for awhile but wanted to make sure to give you and FW the proper distance and respect for me to figure youse guys situation out and I have. It’s been a hot minute so I must insist that you listen to me talk since nobody else will. I understand you may think we don’t have a reason to communicate but there are many things I feel. Real feels and everything. As a woman with a vagina, I can sympathize and have an understanding with you on how you feel about where my vagina is lately. Since the beginning of my relationship with FW I swear I’ve had almost nothing but anal so he wasn’t really unfaithful oh and btw best wishes for you in your healing from stuff that neither FW and I are responsible for and in your future. I’ve always made sure we drive a stake into your life and heart. I just want to come to you as FW’s newly vaginal legitimate woman and say that I get it. I get the pain and the hurt you feel about stuff I didn’t do and neither did FW and trust me the anal was worse but I did it for you as an understanding sympathetic fellow vagina person. I have never been married and had children with someone I just used an eye dropper because who actually has a turkey baster so I can’t come to you and say I understand that part and I hate to see a family torn that way which we totally didn’t do. I’ve had that happen in my family’s doublewide and see how in the beginning things that I had nothing to do with can be hard to navigate and hard to process those feelings. I do want to say from the outside looking in I want everyone but you in this situation to be able to love in an elevator in their own lives and find Waldo. I’m not going to speak for FW because I want this conversation to be strictly my feelings nothing more than feelings and my words that I read on Pinterest but I can say from him and I we want everything good that can come like your house and money for my eye dropper kids. We want you to find true love and happiness like we have and pro tip the molly sure helps. We want to see you writhe. We want to see my children enjoy your 2300 share foot home. Maybe we can be one happy home when I move in so much better than my tiny miserable one. I want to put it out there as well is that I hope you don’t have some sort of animosity or anger towards me of course why would you since I did nothing wrong but hey some people can be funny that way. FW was very honest with me in the beginning of the relationship of youse guys situation and I gave him head. I in no way want be looked at as a Black and Decker Pecker Wrecker or that I want to keep him from his charming irresponsibility as a father. Since the beginning I’ve always encouraged him to keep an open marriage with you and to be Disney for the children as much as you would allow. I just want to make sure that I’m treated with the same respect as you would treat Beyonce which I am the spitting image of as you no doubt know. As far as why I feel it’s important for us to communicate is because I’m the entire life of your children’s father. And where you may not feel at the moment it’s not or is important to speak to me or you feel I feel it is or I feel you feel it isn’t oh what was I saying I lost track. I remember in the beginning of his and my relationship you wrote him and told him that after he and I have been together for 8 minutes then you would allow me to be around the 2300 square feet well 8 minutes are up. We are now a blip on your radar and the relationship is very sailing, sailing, come sail away with me lad greatest Styx song ever so he must have some sort of relationship with his children in your house not my apartment and me too please. I want to make it clear that I’m not here to try to act like their mother as I would not know how or to step out on FW well not yet but I will. I have two kids from two different eye droppers since I lost the first one and I know what it’s like being on the other side looking in wanting the right type of women with 2300 square foot houses for my children. Mother to mother I totally back you 100% when it comes to that house and your income becoming available to the eye dropper duo. Because I love that so much I love using those kids just as much. It hurts me to see FW whoring around on me and lying about his children and I hate feeling like I’m part of the issue cause I’m totally not I’m really just an insolent grandstander. The love he has for those children is so beautiful just like a white butterfly on an April morning and I wish more men in the world were more like him except they should have bigger dicks and more money. I can see how seeing the positive qualities in someone who is a lot of chaos and confusion is hard. I know healing from stuff that I had nothing to do with takes time and I’m here to push you to a decision, I just merely want to speak my peace and win a Nobel Speaking My Peace prize and hopefully open up another path of verbal diarrhea for me. I want nothing more then to blend our families down the road and be able to get in your big house and have all the goodies for holidays and birthdays that FW can’t provide FYI the kids need a gaming system no pressure. I adore the kids except for feeding them and bathing them that really sucks and the couple of times I got to spend time with them was amazing. My children and your money will get along very well and have fun. We want the kids to have can you feel the love tonight from all sides except not from people with warts on their faces they scare me. And I also want to thank you for thinking of my children on a couple occasions by giving them Halloween candy and giving them food that they liked which I am unable to do. You actually fed them and it stunned me. I appreciate it whole heartedly. I do hope you are a woman of your word and allow my malevolence around the 2300 square feet and if that takes for us to talk and come to an understanding of my greatness just know I am demanding that.
    Blessings be a pawn you,
    CHRISTine 16”

  • The UBT is my favourite thing on the internet. Wonderful job UBT – you deserve all the cookies!

  • Amanda, if you do not tell the one who impregnated you that he will see his children only under supervision and will not be allowed to take them anywhere near the tramp you are going to get everything you desire. Shacked up for 4 years while the trash cheated on you then you marry that creature; hey what do you expect. You are on your own and if you have decent relations with family maybe they can help.

  • Submitted for discussion: Is this a case for severing parental rights? I mean the FW’s. Perhaps his pride would not permit it. If pitched as “do this and I’ll never nag you for money ever again” he might agree.

    It is possible Amanda will never get the child support owed her. Plus if FW drops all rights, Amanda could move if wanted/needed.

    Again, submitted for discussion — not submitted as a solution. A lot depends on if Amanda can support her kids, and on her support system in general.

  • This is the best UBT I have read, ChumpLady.

    Thank you for mining the bullshit for all of us chumps.

  • My blood pressure went up reading all that. Tell her to fuck off and never contact you again!
    WTF did I just read? OP…please focus on self-care and also your children. Don’t entertain that woman or anything she says.

    Also, the “I’m not a homewrecker” deal…a lot of OW say this to justify their actions.
    It’s denial. To admit their role in the situation is something they can’t do.
    They don’t accept responsibility. It’s more convenient to see themselves as innocent, blameless victims who simply fell in “love” and deserve to be “happy” (even if it’s at the expense of others).

    And the cheater will tell the AP that you are “crazy”…that you are a bad spouse, a bad person, you don’t appreciate them, etc.
    As far as what the wife in this case said about how her ex-husband’s behavior changed when he started cheating, I found myself nodding at that part.
    Acting weird, being distant, acting bored/disinterested/annoyed by your presence (but being overly nice at other times)…in my experience that often indicates cheating.

    Tell that bitch to fuck herself. Block her. Don’t allow them to gaslight you or make themselves into the victims here.

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