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UBT: ‘I Will Return With a Fuller Love’

butt faceThere’s nothing like a good serving of cake to make cheaters really appreciate their chumps.

Shana submitted this gem to the Universal Bullshit Translator and says it was from an exchange of emails with her husband as he worked overseas. She asked him:

“Are you seeing someone, having sex, etc.?”

“I really appreciate the courage and strength it took for you to ask me this directly. I love you and respect you too much to lie to you even though this will hurt. Yes, I have met someone here that is important to me, and I have been together with her. The details of it really don’t matter. What matters is that I will return to you and the girls with a fuller love for you than I had when I left. You know how deeply I love the girls and how important it is for me to be in their lives. That hasn’t changed. I also still love you and it’s important to me to be in your life.”

Now to fire up the UBT…

I really appreciate the courage and strength it took for you to ask me this directly.

Busted! Fuck.

I really appreciate the courage and strength it takes for you to keep being my chump.

 I love you and respect you too much to lie to you even though this will hurt.

But I don’t love and respect you enough to not cheat on you. Really Shana, the problem here is the truth. You insist on damaging honesty, even though you KNOW those mean, ugly words take courage and strength to hear and will hurt you with their polysyllabic cadences. I blame adverbs, participles, and the Oxford comma.

Yes, I have met someone here that is important to me, and I have been together with her.

And can you fault “togetherness”?

The details of it really don’t matter.

I don’t care to tell you the details. Like if I endangered your health in any way, or got an Important Person pregnant. Such trivialities, like your basic well-being, really don’t matter.

What matters is that I will return to you and the girls with a fuller love for you than I had when I left.

What matters is my entitlement. What matters is that I return to YOU! and the kids! My primary source of kibbles! Aren’t you the lucky ones to win the wonderfulness that is ME? Sure, I may fuck around with Important People I Just Met, but I always come home to you! With deeper wells of bullshit and mindfuckery than before.

My love is fuller. Riper! It swells like a fetid pustule on my ass and bursts only for YOU.

You know how deeply I love the girls and how important it is for me to be in their lives.

You know how deeply I hate consequences and how important it is for me to avoid them. I love being in our children’s lives so much that I work overseas and fuck around on their mother. #fullerkindoflove

That hasn’t changed.

I’m still a douchebag.

I also still love you and it’s important to me to be in your life.

As an aside, I still love you how you are of use to me! It doesn’t matter if you don’t want me in your life, it’s all about what’s important to ME.

I didn’t say you are important to me. (Like the OW is Important To Me.) I said having you in MY LIFE is important to me. Doing stuff like raising my progeny, folding my underwear, and swapping out the AC filters. I need a chump so I can attend to the important work of ME-ness. You wouldn’t want to fuck that up, would you?

Shana? Fuck that up.




This one ran before.

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  • If it weren’t for the fact that I couldn’t help but puke a little in my mouth as I read the FW’s bullshit, I’d be fascinated by it. Seriously, how disconnected and disordered can these FW’s be?:

    “Well yes, of course I’m screwing someone overseas while you hold down the fort with the kids. So? Consider yourself lucky that I’ll be back to fuck you too.”

    How do these idiots get so far in life without getting punched in the face daily? The entitlement is so unreal.

    • Given that we have a sizeable minority of U.S. citizens devoted to a cult of raging me-ness, of entitlement and revenge, I guess these days most of the outed narcissists just become “leaders.” It’s one of them “new normals.” Yay?

    • “Seriously, how disconnected and disordered can these FW’s be?:”

      I do believe my ex was an extremely disturbed individual. Not just for what he did to me, that was certainly enough; but the way he lived the rest of his life post D. He also treated our son and sons family like shit when it became clear to him and whore that they were not going to allow any more abuse from them. And he went on to extreme financial disaster.

      I think he pretended to be normal for as long as he could then he just went batshit crazy when it all blew up. The two worlds collided and it was game over.

      • I think a lot of these types do eventually blow them selves up. There is a also a corollary of underachievement. The question is how long does it take for them to explode, and how many people do they hurt when they do so. I think some of this lies two factors: 1) their innate social skills, and 2) in their ability to attract enablers to compensate for them.

        I have been a narcissist magnet my entire life–partners, friends, bosses. What I am noticing how that I am in my 40s is that most of them have met a Waterloo of some type or another. Either they have completely blown themselves up, or they have squandered their best opportunities and are underachieving. The ones with stronger baseline social skills achieved higher levels of achievement, as did those who were able to attract a competent and enabling partner early in life, in order to compensate for their weaknesses.

        My two cents.

      • Susie Lee,

        This is pure gold ????

        ✨ I think he pretended to be normal for as long as he could then he just went batshit crazy when it all blew up. The two worlds collided and it was game over.✨

    • I once dated a guy like this and can attest most people would punch him in the face given the chance. He’s burned every bridge, his wife hates him, he’s still trying to build a career in his 50s, and he still thinks he’s a great guy with nothing to apologize for – even though he’s an aggravating loser who sucks the air out of a room.

      Honestly, these people are so divorced from reality that I can only chalk it up to profound mental illness. Not that they’d ever go to therapy.

          • You are so right. The only therapy worthwhile is getting your running shoes on to run like hell as far away as possible.

        • Yep, my STBX has low social skills and leaned on me for all the adulting. He’s completely blown his life up as there was no AP to lean on, just sex workers galore.

          He’s in his mid-40s, with no savings and a job that only pays about $0.75 more an hour than the one our high school aged child holds. It’s unbelievable as he has a degree from one of the best public universities in the United States.

          As for therapy, no it never helped. He was never honest with his therapist. He was always a consummate, manipulative, vulnerable narcissist. I am 99% certain his therapist viewed him as the invoverted, depressed, intelligent man who went through a terrible childhood. The therapist should really get to know him as the middle aged man who spent approximately $10 grand on hookers, begs other men for nudes of their wives on Reddit, keeps asking people how to get a working girl to date him, and finds hurting women sexually exciting.

          He does a hell of an impression of an affable human being though. Masterclass level performance.

          • Gross. Glad you’re away from him.

            I, too, was married to someone with low social skills. Hard to imagine how he’s managing now. He’s moved to a far-away state with wifetress and is a plane-ride away from whatever supports he had in place in his home state. Over the years, he’s alienated so many people. Sometimes he did so unintentionally just by being an asshole (and denying he was being an asshole). Clueless AF. Even people on his own side of the family have dropped him.

            Now he’s sad every day.???? #myfault

            Sometimes I fantasize that the AP/wife must stare into space, wondering what the hell she’s done and won.

          • “He’s in his mid-40s, with no savings and a job that only pays about $0.75 more an hour than the one our high school aged child holds.”

            Sucks to be him.

            “I am 99% certain his therapist viewed him as the invoverted, depressed, intelligent man who went through a terrible childhood.”

            I strongly suspect my FW’s shrink sees him that way as well. In reality his childhood was pretty average for a working class kid in the neighborhood he grew up in. It wasn’t good, but people go through far worse and turn out far better than he did.

    • Wanna hear a funny story? Around our fifth year of marriage my now ex husband had to go take a class in the next town over for his FAA certification. Since it was a long drive, he got a hotel room for the couple of weeks with an Army buddy who was also taking the class. I can’t remember the exact details but at some point, I drove over to meet him at the Barnes and Noble. I was either picking him up or having dinner with him or something. I get there and his face is all beat to shit. Like bloody and messed up, his glasses were broken too if I’m remembering correctly.

      He claimed he had a seizure. Just out of nowhere, he had a seizure and fell and while seizing he beat his face on the pavement. So of course I want him to go to the hospital. He refuses. He won’t even make a doctor’s appointment. He starts getting angry about it, he doesn’t want to talk about it. He was just standing up too long in the sun and it triggered a seizure. “I don’t think that’s how seizures work…” just made him angrier.

      Flash forward to our divorce after 20 years of marriage. I’m two years out and occasionally still get hit with new info that comes from the weirdest sources. After hearing about how he was screwing some of his coworker’s wives, my boyfriend asks, “How did no one ever beat the shit out of him? He’s not a tough guy. How did he never go after the wrong woman and her husband just beat the hell out of him?”

      And I gasped. Because I thought of the “seizure.” I had genuinely never thought someone might have hit him. Going through the divorce I’ve learned a lot of people will be snarky and insist I knew it all. “You knew deep down he didn’t have a seizure and someone beat him up! snark snark snark!” But no, it really never entered my mind. I never even thought of it. I was very worried about him having a seizure and refusing to go to the hospital. There were times he’d be feeling bad and I’d worry that he might have another seizure.

      But, somebody beating him up for being the creep he is makes a lot more sense. And it would explain why he refused to go to the hospital or see a doctor. I think somebody did punch him in the face that day. It makes me laugh now. I wonder how many other FWs had injuries that were actually somebody punching them in the face.

      • I’ve had a few of those moments too. Was this FAA certification for a pilots license, even with a drivers license….if he went to the hospital and told them he’d had a seizure….he’s not passing the medical for a pilots license and not driving til he spends x months seizure free. That’s IF they believe his story at the hospital. Dicks be dicks.

        • No, he was an aircraft mechanic in the army and had to get the certification to work in the civilian sector. The seizure wouldn’t have affected his job at all, he had no excuse to not go. Which is why it was so bizarre to me.

          • My money’s on he knew his “seizure” story wouldn’t hold up once he got in front of medical professionals, and he was probably already humiliated at getting his ass beat and didn’t want anyone else to know.

          • I feel bad that I can’t stop laughing at the imagery. You’re sitting in a Barnes and Noble with a FW with a smashed up face and broken glasses and he’s telling you he had a seizure and was smashing his own face in the pavement from a seizure. I don’t condone violence but the idea that FW had to dream up some kind of explanation for his face has me in hysterics. I mean, he is already smashed up and now here comes his wife and he dreams up this story about a seizure. What an ass he is. Truly. Just when you think they can’t go lower.

      • The ex, a not very special property lawyer, was at a property jamboree in Cannes. On his return he had a black eye. His explanation ‘a surveyor dropped a door on me and the handle hit me in the eye’. I didn’t believe him at the time and I didn’t know about the affair then. He was almost certainly being his usual drunk obnoxious self and got smacked in the face. His history was littered with incidents when he had been hit ‘for no reason’. Just being him was sufficient. He was an annoying but also dull little prick! Three years out, I can see exactly what he was, and still is if the rare comments about him that I hear are correct. If my self worth had been higher in 1993 – 2019, I wouldn’t have given him the time of day. His exgfOW is, in reality, irrelevant. What I endured without the affair(s) was enough to end the marriage. It’s important to me to remember that.

  • The inverse of “I really appreciate the courage and strength it took for you to ask me this directly” is “You really detest the cowardice and weakness it took for me to keep this from you with my evasion.”


  • What strikes me is that he has no apology or regrets. No remorse for what he did, no indication that he will stop, and a huge assumption she will accept this. His tone sounds like he is speaking down to her, and mildly annoyed that he has to explain himself. It seems that he has been caught before, and considers himself completely entitled.

    The “fuller love” is simultaneously hilarious and horrible. Is he trying to imply that he has learned more about love from the AP than he learned from his spouse?

    Tracy’s response is a gem.

    • I know, he writes like he’s doing her some gigantic favor. “What matters is that I will return to you and the girls with a fuller love for you than I had when I left.” Oooooh, lucky me?

      • If by “fuller,” he means, “with a third person invading our marriage, which is totally awesome for you.”

    • “It seems that he has been caught before, and considers himself completely entitled.”

      That was my take too. It’s not his first rodeo and Shana stayed all those other times, so he can’t imagine why she wouldn’t this time.

      I read the fuller love thing to mean that for him, cheating is like a vacation from which he comes out rested, relaxed and ready to pretend to be a husband and father again.

    • Exactly. He doesn’t feel bad at all, he doesn’t apologize. It has never entered his mind that she may leave him. He feels entitled to do whatever he wants to her and expects her to take it with a smile.

      I don’t know that he’s been caught before. The first time I found out my ex had cheated on me and I had a total nervous breakdown and was soon diagnosed schizophrenic and put on a bunch of medication, he already had this sense of entitlement. The worse ones don’t learn it, they come with it already installed.

    • Goodfriend,
      Right? As if, there’s no problem here! It’s a fait accompli. I am an entitled prick, and I will do what I please! Better yet, I will return w/a better, more expansive love for you and the kids. See what things I do for you?!

      It’s disgusting and appalling to contemplate this fuckwit’s level of narcissism. I hope he got the boot, right in the balls. What an asshole.

  • “ Yes, I have met someone here that is important to me, and I have been together with her.” For some reason (reason=probably my toxic, ill-processed rage and my unhealthy fixation on OW that aren’t budging much even with therapy, years of meditation etc), I found this “that is important to me” part sooooo triggering. Ewwwwghgh. It makes me feel violent towards this OW who’s collecting so many kibbles from a man who she knows has a wife and girls back home (unless she doesn’t know, in which case I wish her a healthy escape), and it brings up all kinds of toxic vengeful feelings towards the FW who could write this to the mother of his children. I hope that since this was posted, Shana found freedom, happiness, Tuesday and a great life without the emotional trauma of this FW.

    • ” … I have been together with her.”

      Yeah, I’m fucking somebody else. Why do you ask?

      • That’s what struck me too. “I have been together with her”!!! Who is he? William F…..g Shakespeare?

        • He’s trying to justify his affair and make himself sound like a good guy. Despite the narcissism, he still knows “I’ve been balls deep in strange” doesn’t have the same classy ring to it.

      • All passive voice, too. “Have met… have been together with…” So he admitted to *something* in the most entitled, immature, cavalier manner imaginable — probably tip of the iceberg. Bitch cookie. In typical fuckwit fashion, he still can’t manage to own it. Is it not possible for people with these kinds of personality disorders to face themselves? It really does seem like a thing, from what I experienced and comments I’ve read here.

    • I am not one who buys the “oh whore is not the enemy”. Yes whore is the enemy, same as whoremonger. Whoremonger is embezzling from the marriage and whore is taking that stolen money and time. They both plan and plot behind the chumps back. Some women never find out about these dual shit piles. I maintain the lucky chumps are the ones that do find out; and the earlier the better.

      Yes of course a disclaimer for the ones who don’t know about the spouse, I am sure there are as many of them as there are reformed cheater unicorns.

      What is really galling is that these piece of shit whoremongers think they deserve a faithful spouse but their spouse doesn’t.

      • I lost so many people because I refused to embrace the other women in sisterhood. Where the fuck was my sisterhood when they were helping him lie to me and abuse me? People would tell me, “They owe you NOTHING, they made no vows to you!” and then turn right around and say to me, “You owe them grace and respect and sisterhood!” Weird how that works. I’m nothing and they are special princesses who must always be respected. Yeah, fuck that noise. Anyone who thinks like that is simply garbage.

        • -People would tell me, “They owe you NOTHING, they made no vows to you!”-

          I’ve heard that argument many times before. I once got into it with a bunch of Angelina Jolie fans at the time she mate-poached Brad. My response was that OWs, like anyone else, are supposed to respect the social contract that says we don’t cause harm to others and their families. I went on to say that if they want the benefits of living in a (relatively) just and compassionate society, they shouldn’t get those benefits if they won’t comply with the social contract that makes a just and compassionate society possible. The Jolie fans just sputtered indignantly and called me a communist. ????

          “You owe them grace and respect and sisterhood!”

          Somebody said that to you? That’s crazy.

      • There are plenty of OWs who don’t know. Why assume FW cheaters are suddenly honest and forthright with the women they cheat with? For a lot of them, being able to deceive their side piece is all part of the ego boost.

    • To be fair, the OW’s often don’t know, because part of the game for cheaters is duper’s delight, creating multiverses (multiple, conflicting realities) without only them knowing. YUCK.

      Being someone overseas, it’s easy he just made up a whole new identity where he’s single, a widower or some other situation to garner sympathy from an unsuspecting stranger.

      Then there are many also complicit OW’s, but without details one way or another, I wouldn’t assume the OW knows she is.

    • Thank you SC for this post! I can easily accept that the fuckwit in my life is a dirtbag but I cannot get past the rage toward the OW. A friend of OW told me that OW can justify her actions because the ends justifies the means (i.e. it was totally ok to blow my world apart and shatter my heart and soul because SHE got what she wanted). I still feel so much rage towards her where I feel meh towards the ex. I hate that I take joy knowing that she’s getting what she deserves with the ex and his toxic family. If I were over it, I wouldn’t care.

      • I’m pretty much over the rage that I had for the OW, and like you, i feel glee that she’s married to the FW. She pursued him for years and she finally won the turd. I believe that wholeheartedly. But when I went to my son’s wedding last year and heard her giggle, it irked me to high heaven. I wanted to just smash in her capped teeth. I think my anger to this day is because of my deep insecurity. I thought I finally learned to love myself, warts and all. And I have. But yet that’s still way down deep and when I’m not consciously putting back on my battle gear, an unexpected encounter with the OW, even in my mind makes me angry all over again. When I find myself angry, I have to stop and remember that it’s my issue again meaning my deep insecurity is manifesting; it’s making me compare myself to a whore yet again. Why do we continue to do this to ourselves? When you figure it out, and you come up with the solution, please let me know. I’d like to finally find my peace.

    • Plus, he used “that is important,” not “who is important,” which I always read as diminishing someone’s status as an actual, you know, human. It may be a common misuse, but certainly revealing.

  • I love the UBT. I only wish my own UBT hadn’t been squashed early on by narcissist-addict- cheater-abusive parents. It might have saved me years of engaging with POS like this one. I still can’t believe I got away after 30+ years of marriage to two cheaters just like mom&dad. I’ve been cheater-free for 7+ years now. I still feel raw and affected at times. Reading this crap was a bit upsetting as I experienced this same type of manipulation my whole life. I hope Shauna files for divorce asap and puts this abuser in her rear view mirror.

  • I would love to hear that this chump is free and clear from such an ass! There are worse, more appropriate words but I don’t want to offend.

    He is a horrible example of a human being and deserves all the crap I hope she shoveled on him.

  • Shana: He’s already bombed the marriage. It is ash and cinders now. Crawl out from under the debris and get your heart, head and kids to a safe place to deal – without him. His calculating verbage in that response to you is for one purpose: to SET YOU UP to do the heavy lifting forward. As in get the divorce rolling, handle all the details, stress over the timelines; keep the kids on an even-keel while this is ongoing, maintain the house for asset division, remain employed to look good for equitable distribution. Don’t be surprised if he offers to fund you a therapist – just to keep you working hard while he maintains full attention on his plan to off you and the marriage.

    There’s not an ounce of redeeming value in him now. Good luck and take care of you – not him.

  • There is a part of me that at least the FW didn’t lie about it. I asked mine directly several times during his 7 year affair if he was having an affair. Instead of truth, I got outright lies, manipulation, gas-lighting. I questioned what my gut was screaming at me, and chose to believe the FW, and ultimately wound up with an auto-immune condition that probably was a result of my gut being at war with my ears, not to mention new “flora” being introduced into my system.

    Also, the BS about “returning” is puke-inducing. And I like how he added that he will always love Shana as an after-thought. Whatever.

    Shana, I hoped you served this guy his walking papers.

    • Call me crazy, but I think I actually noticed that new “flora” had been introduced into my system when he started having regular sex with the AP and when I was 100% clueless. I even asked my PCP about it, but he just said that vaginal pH can be thrown off by menopause. I wonder. It was the strangest change. I’m throwing it out here in case anyone else experienced the same. Or maybe the PCP was right.

      Note: And I’m not talking about BV or an STD. Those are terrible “gifts” from cheaters, of course, but this is something else.

      • I felt off too. No STD or BV or anything but I felt off and also thought I was entering menopause. Everything down there feels completely healthy now that I’m rid of him though.

    • Same. I asked FW directly if he was having an affair and he denied it. Probably because I’d said that if he was I was going to walk away. 3 1/2 years of lies before he finally admitted (part of) the truth. I wish I’d listened to my gut from the very beginning. I wouldn’t have wasted all that time. But one doesn’t want to believe that one’s husband is unfaithful, so I believed his lies and excuses, and consequently felt like I was going crazy because they didn’t line up with what I was seeing and hearing (OW was a “friend” and I saw the two of them together and my gut was SCREAMING that something wasn’t right, but FW had gaslit and abused me for so long I didn’t trust myself at all). Ugh.

      • And after I begged for answers and was lied to, klootzak accused me in RIC of not communicating with him about things and I spent a year of him and the RIC counselor telling me I needed to communicate better. Really!?! When I communicated about something REALLY important and was lied to!?! So yeah, I started to clam up a bit. Better to not bother asking when you know he is only going to lie.

    • I asked the same of FW. Always “I would never cheat on you”. At one point I actually said “we can get past this if the affair is over…”.(what was I thinking? SMH ) I was told by him “ doesn’t matter because I’m not cheating….” Had been cheating for at least 1.5 years. He kept me thinking he was depressed, I kept trying to ease his burdens, trying to get him to counseling, I was so ridiculously scared of the unknown.

  • “I also still love you and it’s important to me to be in your life.”


    Ugh. This is nauseating and, I think reflects the attitude of so many cheaters. They really can’t wrap their heads around how entitled they are. They can’t see that other people have wants and needs, that other people matter. It’s all about them. Their feelings. Their needs.

    They seem incapable of empathy, and yet, they think they care–a kind of Dunning-Kruger effect for cheaters.

    Unbeknownst to me, he wasn’t happy for the last 10 years of our marriage. But at times he said he was happy and that this woman just flirted and he was naive and fell for it. She “played games,” he said. He was a poor little boy (62!) who fell for her seduction. He wanted me to know that while he was fucking her and lying to me, he was still in love with me. Lucky ME!!!

    And it was only in the last few days before D-day, when I reacted badly to something, (SPINACH screwed up) that he knew he would end our marriage.

    Bottom line: Of utmost importance were HIS FEELINGS. He never inquired about mine or our kids’. And he will never see that. Because I’m NC, I’ll never push this issue. It’s like trying to convince a rickety chair that it’s not always as supportive as you’d like it to be.

  • “My love is fuller. Riper! It swells like a fetid pustule on my ass and bursts only for YOU.”

    LOL!! Thanks for the morning laugh. I hope Shana got a great settlement and that his narcissistic fuckwittery is just a faded, albeit unpleasant, memory. Much like the scar from that pustule on his ass.

  • “It doesn’t matter if you don’t want me in your life, it’s all about what’s important to ME.”

    Yup, that sums up my experience of Chumpdom & divorce.

    I’d love to see his response if she replied, “Oh, good! Me too. Glad we’re on the same page.” Alas, we never know what these FWs are capable of. My particular FW “wouldn’t be able to handle it” if I cheated. After all, it’s all about them!

    • “FW “wouldn’t be able to handle it” if I cheated.”

      Exactly!!! I actually asked x if he could imagine how he’d react if I’d cheated. Deer in the headlights. No response. He couldn’t even entertain the thought.

      He did tell me after D-Day and after he’d said he wanted to marry this woman he’d been having a multi-year affair with that he would be very upset if I ever had sex with another man. I have no words. Mind boggling.

    • I remember my fw told me after he was outed that one night he drove over to my work facility where I said I was working over time, and he was disappointed that he saw my car there. he had hoped he would find it gone.

      Now my fw knew that I wouldn’t cheat, but in his diseased mind, trying to grab water to save himself was likely hoping he could find something to try to pin his shit on me. He couldn’t, I was clean as a whistle and he knew it.

      He couldn’t even make up a lie to other people about me, as they would have laughed at him.

      No I wasn’t perfect, but I was a devoted wife, and I worked my ass off at supporting his dreams. Once he attained his dreams he drop kicked me. Actually I think he wasn’t quite ready to DK me. But, someone dropped a dime, and filed an ethics complaint against him, so he had to move fast.

      He spent the next year kissing ass at warp speed; but to no avail. Busted and kicked back out on patrol. His tight relationship with upper mgt in ruins.

      Yes, when I saw that in the paper; it put a bounce in my step.

    • Me too!! After DD2, FW had a “dream” I was cheating on him and HE CRIED!! A total figment of his imagination and HE CRIED! “I’m so sad. I can’t believe you would do this to MEEEEEEEE.”

      What? Hun? Guess his 2 strange (additional “friends” were discovered later) were what? My fault (of course they were!!) because I didn’t give him what he wanted and they would. But a fictitious person in his dream was enough to threaten his whole world? Whatever, man.

      I received a somewhat similar response to my confrontation conversation: “I love you, I love our kids, I love my financial situation; you’re a great mom, a good earner and have taken care of my FOO and kids so well. She (they) just gave me what I wanted. But you won’t cheat, right? Because that would destroy me.”

      The level of depravity and empathy-lacking was profound. I maintain as little contact as possible (minor kids and a business) but interestingly he’s prolonging the divorce to what end? I was the scab on the bottom of his foot–he couldn’t fuck enough strange to scratch is his itch–but he wants to maintain the marriage. After a lot of CN lurking (Thanks Tracy!!), reading about narcissism and toxic relationships (Thanks Lundy!!), and generally getting my shit together, I see I was the best wife appliance in the lower 48! No adult consequences! No worrying about taxes! No worrying about kids’ education, business issues or/and FOO needs? That’s what the WA is to do!! Yeah me!!!

      BTW–I did meet someone a year after DD2; it was on-line. He confronted me and I didn’t blink. I told him “he wasn’t meeting my needs so I found someone who would.” I am conflicted about what I did (it was unlike me to be so spiteful); I spoke with someone outside my marriage about my feelings. This was a betrayal. BUTTTTT, it was also a GIANT FLASHING NEON SIGN that my marriage was.already.over. No amount of counseling, promises or self-flagellation would put the humpty dumpty back together. Then, I found out about #3(?). Such a chump.

      5.0 years from DD2; 3.0 since DD3; 2.5 since final separation; 2.0 since mediation failed; 1.5 since filing. I don’t date. I don’t talk to anyone in that way. I run my life: kids, business, outside activities, friendships on my terms. I’ve been BIFF since 2019. Still, I’m to blame for the destruction of my marriage (and his lifestyle).

      Whatever, man.

  • It never ceases to amaze me how a narcissistic dirtbag can write this to his chumpy wife. He’s a low life piece of crap ???? and the sooner he’s thrown into the trash the better. I hope the wife did exactly that!

  • what a guy.

    it’s got an oddly formal, kinda business tone to it. i really hate that. but i was given a performance review at the marital therapist’s office and fired. all that business jargon. FFS. the therapist laughed. she couldn’t help herself. i don’t blame her as it was funny. therapy helps.

    shana, you’re well rid of this loser.

    don’t ask any more questions because he’ll reveal that he’s ALIVE and that’s what life is for. LIVING. he’s been SLEEPWALKING through life these past years and now he knows he needs to FEEL ALIVE. this other woman/man is the ANTIDOTE. he needs to go bicycling in expensive lycra and clip on shoes like he’s 24 years old. after all, THIS IS THE TOUR DE FRANCE OF HIS LIFE.

    RAGE AGAINST THE DYING LIGHT, he raged, spit flying.

    fuck that guy.

    • “This is the Tour de France of his life”!!! Ha ha, that’s brilliant! Let’s hope he gets a puncture!

      • i’m thinking about those people that accidentally step out into the path of the cyclists and create a massive accident, that’s what i’m thinking. picture it. i’m holding a sign that says “chumped”, and singlehandedly take down half the pack.

        • Love that image, difbtbac. Perhaps better yet, just wait for the next OW to run out with a sparkly costume — waving a flag that says “Kibbles!” — to take care of it for you. No need to get anywhere near the carnage, yourself. BTW, I hope your ex and his shmoopie are enjoying his cycling-induced impotence, hours of him-time (and $$$) devoted to training, racing and poring over stats and bragging on social media — and possibly even doping side effects.

  • The entitlment to make such statements… Shana, I hope you empty his pockets to the last dime and then some more!
    Im sorry we don’t do public hangings anymore, so financial compensation is the very least you can look for.

  • You have to have an EQ and self awareness of negative 1,000,000,000 to be this narcissistic. It‘a so disgusting it makes me nauseous.

  • This is one of my favorites. The entitlement and arrogance of this guy is nauseating.
    I hope Shana moved while he was overseas, never to see him again.

  • These stories always amaze me with the similarities to my own experience. My ex has significant ADHD that he used to shield a lot of crap over the years. During the brief marriage therapy period, I literally asked him to have a psych assessment because the things he was saying were so so crazy and disconnected to reality. I felt like he had some serious mental issues somewhere. Now I know, he knew he was saying crazy shit, but it prevented real discussion and created confusion which made it harder to hold him accountable. It is so insane and abusive. And he knew he was doing it. It amazes me that they all do this. Such a blessing that so many of us are free from this kind of abuse.

    • I remember just standing there with my mouth hanging open when fw would go into one of his rants (screaming at me) over such stupid shit.

      He must have realized what he was doing, because about three months after he left he wrote me an apology letter for acting like such a dirt bag. I don’t remember what all it said, but I do remember thinking you did all that stuff to my face, you can apologize to my face. He never did. My guess is he wasn’t willing to listen to what I had to say.

  • This so resonates with me. Many of KnaveMan’s affairs were conducted overseas, in search of a story, or background or inspiration for his writing.
    But he came home to me, and couldn’t I just be Continental about it? No?
    How unsophisticated of me.
    Au revoir, bâtard. How’s that for Continental ?!

  • Chump response email – “Ok. I’ve been fucking (cheaters best friend) the entire time you’ve been gone, but when you come back I’ll stop. It’s relieving to know we’re on the same page.”

    • If it wasn’t for the fact that FWs would be all over the chance to reverse adultery charges once they got served, it would be the perfect affair-buzz-killer. I didn’t get that overt in signaling “two can play that game” but did traipse up to the brink a little. I had never dreamed of goading FW with jealousy traps up to that point so it was pretty clear that it wasn’t some sign of chronic personality problems but a reaction to crisis or some kind of survival instinct at play.

      Before D-Day when I was 90% sure FW was cheating and was starting to take a friend’s advice to quietly get ducks in a row, I had been out of state for an extended period with the kids getting a long course of intense specialized medical care for my middle child in the only place this was available. From the texts and secret credit card charges I saw after D-Day, FW was basically living with the AP for most of the time his family was away. The AP’s excited blabbing that FW was shacking up and “taking it to the next level” spilled over and eventually reached me through a young colleague of FW’s. But before I got the confirmation and during the months the kids and I were out of state, FW would fly in to visit (more and more infrequently) carting things the kids needed. He’d receive the deliveries at our house and would unbox them to fit them in suitcases. So I did a few punkish things to shake off the gaslit paralysis I was in. One of my pranks was to send myself swank silk lingerie a few times.

      Maybe there was an element of pickme dancing in there but I was so crushed and discouraged at that point that I didn’t have it in me to seduce a slug. It felt more like defiance and throwing a wrench in the gears and a way of testing the enemy’s weaknesses. I hadn’t spent a dime on myself in ages thinking that we were saving for a beautiful future for the kids while FW secretly racked up debt to placate a grasping side piece and claimed we were cash-strapped. So the lingerie purchases really stood out. Furthermore FW had always nagged me that I didn’t need fancy clothes, that he preferred me in cotton and no makeup and had pressured me to donate all my old designer work gear. It was like he was trying to turn me into a dull-colored nest mate while he played peacock. Doing this was probably the first time anything amused me in six months.

      The first time FW flew in with the stuff, he tossed it at me with a look of boredom while unpacking as if to say, “Yeah, that’s not going to work. I’m too sparkly for you!” I learned later during the “full disclosure” part of RIC that the AP had amassed quite a collection of uncomfortable, porny synthetic lingerie for the affair so FW would narcily and smugly assume women didn’t buy this stuff for themselves but as part of a sweaty pickme dance. The AP’s porn gear was also likely purchased with the money she saved from having everything else paid for on my family’s dime. That may be why FW didn’t nag me about the cost as he typically would have despite the fact La Perla isn’t cheap and still bore price tags (though gotten new on Ebay at massive discounts). I never looked at him, just smiled and lovingly put the things away and he never saw them again. I didn’t touch him on that trip and wore a ratty old t-shirt to sleep. Hey, he loved cotton. The second time he showed up with items like this, he handed them over carefully with ever-so-slightly shaking hands. I said, “Cool, thanks” without without looking at him and promptly put the things away, never to be seen again. Suddenly he was texting me every time I walked out the door, started talking about taking flights every weekend until the treatment was finished and going to Paris for our anniversary. Then he hacked my phone.

      He left again but reported he wasn’t sleeping and was having nightmares. He sounded shaken when he told me about a few of those dreams. First he dreamed I was ravished by a shadowy figure and he couldn’t find a gun. He dreamed the kids’ strapping art teacher had turned into a giant with eight foot legs and was chasing him around the vacation rental. Then he dreamed his late playboy bachelor uncle and dysfunctional dad came back from the dead to tell him how lonely they were. Turnaround is fair play I guess. I’d been having nightmares for a year.

      From the credit card trail, it looked like FW abruptly began spending more nights at home than at the AP’s tacky condo which she’d plied her drunken cheater dad to buy her and had decked out as a bonk pad just for FW. I saw old emails where she’d wheedle him to weigh in on decisions over purchases of crappy wall art and furnishings. At least he didn’t pay for the stuff according to the credit records. In any case, it seems pretty clear from texts and email trail at that time that the AP was feeling the tide turning. I later saw the flurry of messages in which AP was nervously taking the temperature of the affair, whined that her cat missed FW and had emailed FW links to pot dispensaries “for sleep! xox” Lol. The links included mention of the AP’s “VIP membership” to several dispensaries (since the year weed was legalized). Like the bar and bistro bills on the secret credit card that made it clear that either FW or the AP had been driving with massive blood alcohol levels on many occasions, the dispensary evidence didn’t boost FW’s “good father” impression management from a legal perspective and it completely destroyed his DARVO charge that I was “unstable” and therefore “a danger to the children.” That last accusation was drawn from the fact that I kept losing weight and wasn’t sleeping. It had clearly been a veiled threat against my custody of the kids and had left me in a state of complete terror. It was such a relief to douse the threat.

      By the time I confronted FW with what I’d learned and announced I’d retained a lawyer, he was already exhausted, defanged and primed with anxiety, had the AP breathing down his neck and exploded in confessions, showed me the secret credit card bills, gave up his device passwords and dumped the AP. I did get sucked into the RIC nonsense for a spell but having all the evidence, the written confessions and the documented money trail made my lawyer’s job easier when I did a 180. Fault state. Oops.

      I risked doing things that “felt good” but were too vague to boomerang. The gestures might seem juvenile but I can’t regret that it gave me strength. No joke. My doctor reported that my chronically high cortisol levels had suddenly dropped to almost nothing which signaled I was on the verge of developing lethal adrenal insufficiency– thus the fainting, etc., and other grounds for FW to deem me “unstable.” I didn’t have Addison’s– it was all stress. My labs improved after this. For some reason it helped to understand how much cheating is, as Velvet Hammer puts it, a three legged stool that would collapse if the “victim leg” came loose. The little pranks seemed to cause FW and the AP to get sloppy to the point that I found out sooner rather than later.

      As I’ve said before, I did a few other things that laced some humor into that horrible time. Now when I get occasional intrusive flashbacks to that period, I remember the little gestures and laugh. Beats traumatic flooding and adrenal collapse.

      • “It felt more like defiance and throwing a wrench in the gears and a way of testing the enemy’s weaknesses.”

        Yes, exactly. This is how I felt in my profound shock in the days, weeks and months immediately following D-day. I’d alternate between the pick-me dance, and doing stuff I knew would piss the FW soon-to-be XW off.

        Nothing terrible, but anything I did to stand up for myself, she and the AP did not like. Well, fuck them, I started to think more and more. I almost couldn’t help myself. I think it was the true me trying to break through to let the FW XW know that what she did was NOT ok w/me.

  • I am struck by how he mentioned loving the girls deeply before he mentioned Shana. My FW would say to me, “you sure are a good mother”. He never mentioned wife (which I prioritized first) – as though at least I was a good mother and that was his consolation. I was as good a wife as he would let me be – with his emotional unavailability, his sexual rejections, and the rest of his narc traits. One time (before D Day) he asked me if I was happy. I said “yes, I’m happy, how about you?”. After a minute or so of silence, I said, “no reply??” He sarcastically said, “oh God, yeah”. Boy, I swept so much under the rug.

    • Ugh. I could feel him slipping away in the months before D-Day. I attributed it to his retirement. I thought he was going through a tough adjustment. Poor guy!!! Knowing that he probably had Borderline Personality Disorder, I chose to reassure him that I would never abandon him. I told him that I would re-do our vows. His response: “Really? You’re kidding.”

      There were so many red flags, but I just didn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t see. Hopium is a helluva drug, too. Fear, too.

      I wish I could go back and talk some sense into my younger self. *sigh*

      • I do too, Spinach. Fuckwits are so mean and stupid. “Normal” as it seems after over a year of reading this site, it will probably always be shocking and baffling to me to read about and remember this BS. Every SINGLE comment that involves a cheater’s words or actions is terrible, without exception. Eternally grateful to CL for creating a platform where we can share and relate these otherwise alienating, isolating, crazy making experiences.

    • Isn’t it crazy how losers who bring NOTHING to the table act like THEY are the long-suffering victims in the relationship? They need to all stay single and die alone instead of infringing on decent people.

      • Why condemn them to solitude when we could take it a step darker and condemn them to each other? Start a FW dating website. 😀

        • That’s the crazy thing: Fuckwits wouldn’t want each other. On some level, they know their kind have nothing to offer and that they need chumps, for all they bitch about us.

          How many fuckwits will bitch about a chump only for their lives to fall apart without us to prop them up? Or their twu wuvv with Shmoopie collapses once we’re out of the picture – again, showing they’ve got nothing real there once you remove the drama of the love triangle?

  • Oh right, The Eternal Usefulness of the Compliant Loyal Chump! How convenient!

    I love you, and respect you, and want to raise our children with you, but I just need a few pieces on the side. Sure, I tell them lies! They need to be compliant, too! If you don’t say anything, no-one need know. Be sweet, pray. and keep quiet. Everything will work out in the long run. Just having a bit of harmless fun.

  • And if Shana would let him come home to the family, here’s the fun that would ensue- constant texts and calls to important person, treating Shana like crap, moping, ignoring the children’s needs, etc.
    No thanks for that dream life!

  • FW doesn’t want to pay child support. I’m curious if Shana is still on here? Would love to hear an update. ❤️

  • Love this one. “ME-ness”… guffaw.

    (Coming ‘Round the Mountain)
    He couldn’t keep his ME-ness in his pants
    No, he couldn’t keep his ME-ness in his pants
    Overseas banging Goldilocks
    Comes back with ME-ness spreading pox
    No, he couldn’t keep his ME-ness in his pants

    Another spoof from the last time this post was published.

    Tune by Phil Collins, lyrics by chumps:

    When I forsake you
    All I have to do
    Is gaslight you too
    Then I’m not so blue

    When you’re texting me
    My VIP’s on my knee
    Coddling my personality
    Disorder overseas

    I therefore decree
    Chumpy, you and me
    Got a fuller kind of love

    Full of fibs and lies
    Small and jumbo size
    Hoping you’ll stay blind
    for eternity

    Full of risk and danger
    For you, not Pussy Ranger!
    From my sketchy stranger
    Carrying STIs

    And so full of sh*t, it’s
    Coming out my ears, it’s
    Drowning me stink
    and drawing flies

    That’s why I decree
    Chumpy, you and me
    Got a fuller kind of love

      • Ha! I’ve mentioned before that my ex was working as a “roving ranger” when he started fucking around with a college intern. He left that job years ago, but I’m sure he’s still generously volunteering his time as a roving pussy ranger.

        • “Roving ranger”? He met a coed working as a park guide in an information trailer? Makes me wonder what kind of pickup line he used.

          Hello, my name is Bob. On behalf of the Fuckwit Conservancy Center, I’d like to welcome you all to Cheater National Park. The bus ride to your hotel will take about fifteen minutes. Right now I’d like to take a minute to familiarize you with the area and discuss some brief safety precautions. First, please don’t feed the Fuckwits…

  • I’d write back: “I’m glad you told me. I have a small confession of my own….”

    • ” I have a small confession of my own…, but when you get back all will return to normal, take your time”

    • I found that if I use the drag bar to the right, it calms the jumping down. Or you may have drag arrows to the side.

    • I found the ads sometimes did that to me, especially the one of the dark spinning globe. Shut them (tiny tiny x, upper left corner) and that should fix it. The ads caused me a lot more problems on a mobile device than on a laptop, FWIW.

    • If you experience any ad weirdness, please email me so I can report it to the network. Let me know your browser and if you’re using mobile or a desktop. And if you want to be super duper helpful send me a video of it jumping, because the response I usually get is they cannot replicate the issue. (I have also had the ad jump happen on my iPhone.) Sorry it’s annoying. The ads help pay for this place, and me.

      • For me I think it is something going on with my set up, because I have the roving screen on several sites. Slowing down the speed of my mouse helps and using the drag feature.

        I never see ads, so I don’t know about those.

  • Ho hum, these assholes are all the same. There must be some dizzying highs they get from this sense of entitlement. I can’t comprehend saying something like this to anyone and yet, fuckwits seem quite okay with it all. Mine sounded like this when he calmly told me how it was going to be all fine now because, instead of sneaking around behind my back and stealing money and lying he was so glad to announce that he had a steady girlfriend who loved him, and he loved her. It was going to be so much easier and better for me and him. Gee, thanks. His delusion sounded an awful lot like the douchebag in this post. It’s tiresome to say the least.

    • I don’t know about him, but I am guessing in short time things did get a lot better for you.

      I know though going through it was hell, I am so glad she got my life and I got away.

      It is like these dumb shit whores think that any happiness or good stuff we have is all the benevolence of the cheater.
      Which is likely what they have been told by said cheater.

  • Its all transactional to them. They think we will be grateful and not leave if we get our house, father for our kids, financial support. They buy us a new car, bathroom, kitchen, diamond ring. It used to be a joke that you would get jewelry or your new china from your husbands affair. And schmoopie thinks shes trying out to be the new Mrs. Thinks she will step in as our replacement and get all the stuff we have, get our life. FW makes her dance, she thinking she has a shot. Its all so cliche. The women fall for it hook line and sinker and do not see through the lies, or they are hoping we will find out and dump them and they can replace us and get our fabulous life and all our stuff. But what can you say, its the reality of the situation. If you ask a man if he would rather be loved or respected most would say respected. And for FW’s control is the aphrodisiac.

  • It’s like someone writing an exaggerated story to explain severe narcissism to another who’s never heard of it and this is the story they came up with. Unreal!! ( and scary!)
    How the hell do they get such bs to make sense in their own warped minds?! We will never know, it is not a solvable problem.
    They cannot for even one second put themselves in someone else’s position, feel someone’s pain and grief. It’s not possible.
    Love and respect for you?! Whatever the polar opposite of love and respect is is what he is handing you in that letter.
    Pay attention to his actions, his words have no value whatsoever.
    Shana, at least you have all you need to know who this guy actually is and also some great documentation to hand to your lawyer.
    His entitled delusional ego has drifted out of our stratosphere, he’s irredeemably gone and not coming back.
    Let your lawyer contact his space craft, you and your girls, abort the mission and go live a good life.
    (Hope you left right away and you and your girls are doing great, forever free of that drifting space dick.)

  • “With deeper wells of bullshit and mindfuckery than before.”
    Exactly correct, the UBT is infallible when fuckwittery is fuckwitting about.

  • I hope he returned to an empty house and empty bank accounts. I hope Shanna put on her bitch boots and walked!

  • Didn’t have the brains or bravery to do anything remotely like this myself, but I like to imagine this chump quietly getting her ducks in a row, documenting evidence and getting good legal representation, and catching the overseas cheater unawares. I’m picturing the FW coming home to no one and nothing — chump and fam long gone, having managed to LACGAL and make out as well as can be hoped for. Of course, this is the fantasy ending, but I do hope things worked out in her favor.

  • Every time I despair, mourn the losses, recoil in anguish and pain, feel like I can’t face the day, etc…I remember how much worse it was with my FW!
    The only thing worse than this life would be if I were still with them and dealing with this kind of shyte all day every day!

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