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The Crazy Synchronicity of Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes

Isn’t the dating-while-married-now-separated synchronicity remarkable? Two people, just friends, suddenly shed their spouses in tandem and want the world to know, they never held hands, canoodled on a park bench, or shared a breath mint until they were free. Such is their consideration.

Well, free until the lawyers sort it out. But the important takeaway is they didn’t have a single impure thought! Not a one! until their obsolete spouse just drifted away (amicably, for the best really), and they could now discover that winsome coworker — also suddenly single!

Kismet! Co-winky-dinks!

I’m referring to any one of a gazillion stories on this blog Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes. The Good Morning America hosts who are now an item. Isn’t it funny how that works out?

People magazine reports:

Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes did not begin dating until after they separated from their spouses, a source tells PEOPLE.

The couple’s relationship was publicly revealed on Wednesday when photos surfaced of them holding hands in a car during a vacation in upstate New York and cozying up at a bar. They both shut down their Instagram accounts hours later.

Nothing says, “nothing to see here!” like shutting down Instagram accounts.

Another source had a different take.

“There were rumors they were having an affair about a year ago,” that source said. “A lot of people believed there might have been some truth to it, because you can see there’s a mutual affection there. But everyone ultimately chalked it up to friendship because they always said they were both happily married.”

How happily married?

Robach also told PEOPLE about their double dates with Shue and Fiebig. “The moment he started at ABC, I think we just clicked. We’ve gone on tons of double dates with our spouses and my daughters babysit his daughters.”

It’s gotta be legit, because affair partners never double date with their chumps, or enlist children in their complicated love rhombuses. That never happens.

So, CN, your Friday Challenge is to share all your crazy synchronicities. Saturn must be in the seventh house of Fuckwit or something.

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  • Oh how amazing!

    Right after both marriages fell apart these two lonely, lonely lovebirds managed to find consolation in each other.

    Oh gosh the Universe provides so nicely!

    • Indeed…
      My sister got the ‘I’m not happy and haven’t been for a long time so I want a divorce but there’s no OW’ talk 3 years ago just before Christmas (and just a week before the laws changed on alimony).
      About 6 weeks in the procedures, divorce not even finished, he introduced the kids to his new girlfriend he just started seeing. The week after she moved out, 10 weeks after the ‘I’m not happy’, she moved in.
      Yeah sure…

      • ” ‘I’m not happy and haven’t been for a long time so I want a divorce but there’s no OW’ ”

        Yup, that is the one I got. He added “because you are such a bad wife”

        So amazing that my bad wifing coincided with his single (but engaged with a $39,000 ring) coworkers awesomeness.

        In trying to describe her awesomeness, he said “When we go on long car rides, we never argue”
        (neither did we, I sat in silence and he raged).

        “Really? How often do you take long car rides together”
        which messed up his timeline of “nothing is happening” since this colleague lived 3000 miles away

        • That was me: “I sat in silence while he raged”. You can imagine how wonderful if feels to drive with a man who is a considerate driver, not perpetually seething and who won’t punch the water bottle out of my hand if I hold it up “too long” (because his mother did and he hated her).
          Life is good ❤️

          • Yup, my ex would goose the brakes or gas if wasn’t getting his way. And deny it of course. Knowing full well I have a weak neck from a severe whiplash years ago. They are real peachy people. Funny how my new partner never has to stomp on the pedals.

            • Me either, he was a madman. Everyone on the road is his enemy.
              If a car would pass ours he’d speed up then block the car from changing lanes, or pull in front of them and put on his brakes. One of many acts of revenge.
              The funny thing is he’d never confront anyone face to face. If it was a contractor who didn’t finish a job he’d rather let it go than say anything. He was a totally different person behind the wheel.
              Speaks volumes.

            • What is with the Road Rage thing? This seems to be a common thread for FWs. Driving the car seems to be a way for FWs to be in control and passive aggressively take things out on chumps.

              FW was a complete ass driving the car … swaying back in forth in the lane, speeding, cutting people off purposely, tailgating… then we’d end up with some other raging lunatic chasing us down on the highway or trying to get him to pull over to fight. Like seriously — wtf

              I HATED driving with him

              • I remember a reddit thread on red flags for cheaters/abusers which included many “erratic driving” stories including driving aggressively, raging at victims while driving and using risky driving to terrorize, chronic high speed tailgating, merging into turn lanes at the last possible second, irrational passing, driving faster than the passengers’ risk tolerance and then the dead giveaway– gaslighting passengers that the driver was not driving dangerously.

                Swap out risk of crashing for the risk of contracting deadly STDs and it’s probably a solid early warning system.

              • Wow, this sounds like my father back when we lived out in the country and had only one car. He’d drive just like this description, put us all in danger, upset other drivers to the point of them trying to fight him, gaslight us saying it was not dangerous, laugh at our terror. He was pulled over a few times for speeding but always managed to talk his way out of it (diplomatic passport) Now I wonder if he was also cheating on my mother at the time…he certainly wasn’t home much.

              • 😳 I never made the connection. He constantly drove erratically despite my pleas to calm it down. They horrible little parasite had 3 RTAS in the 3 years we were together

              • Same behavior with my ex..I think it’s their need to show off, that HE is the one who calls the shots, that others would be impressed with his prowess. It’s a way to demonstrate his masculinity – so immature. I learned later that my kids were afraid to ride with him.

        • Yea I got that “I haven’t been happy for a long time speech”. I did believed it was me because FW was the most covert Narc.
          It was a statement from my 14 y/o son that shook me out of the it’s me phase. He said “we all always have fun, and you do everything for mom, I don’t understand”
          He put things together before I did.

        • “I sat in silence while he raged” describes FW and me perfectly. He loved to take the opportunity of me as a captive audience to verbally abuse me, and terroize me with his driving (the speeding, sudden braking, sudden lane changes, cutting people off, pulling out into oncoming traffic, raging if there was any kind of backup or delay). He was terrible with road rage, and if I showed the least sign of fear (closing my eyes, grabbing the door handle so I wouldn’t slide off the seat), he raged all the harder. And heaven forbid I SAY anything, even to give him directions. But if he missed his exit, it was my fault.

          He was constantly getting speeding tickets and getting in “minor” accidents (NEVER his fault, obviously, “that guy just wouldn’t let him in” or whatever). Our insurance more than DOUBLED because of it. I spent thousands on tickets (and a traffic lawyer) during our marriage. His license got suspended at one point.
          When I finally had to buy a “new” (used) car, I took the opportunity to get my own policy, which was so much cheaper (we were separated). I found out (we shared a broker and the broker called me because he couldn’t get ahold of FW) that his insurance dropped him for having so many violations. I have no idea what exhorbitant rate he had to pay for whatever dodgy company would insure him after that. The most I’ve gotten for the last ten years is a repair order for a boken taillight.

          I made up my mind after one awful incident of verbal abuse that I would NEVER be in a car with him again.

      • Two months into separation, didn’t even file yet, my ex introduced my boys to him. Less than a month after it was finalized, he moved in.

        Oh, the mental gymnastics she spins are great. “My lawyer said we were legally separated.” Ummm no, I didn’t sign a document legally separating us, all of our accounts were joint until the decree came through. I paid for the house while you screwed a dude in it, and you played happy family with him.

        • Josh,
          It sucks when the Chump is the one supporting the household. You get the an extra shit sandwich paying for their immortal behavior.
          My lawyer told me it was about getting out as cheap as possible. Best way is to do it quick while the FWs are trying to save face pretending that they are not cheating. Forget about trying to make them admit it, or apologize.
          It will all come out after the fact.
          She was so spot on. Divorce was final 10 months after Dday in April with a 60/40 split and no alimony. I am a spine surgeon. September she hired a new lawyer to try and renegotiate. Decree was final in May. My Lawyers told her new lawyer “too late” further actions would lead to us filing a motion for FW to pay our legal fees.

          • Oh yeah, it was relatively quick, and monetarily painless (50/50), and I represented myself. She wanted out so bad, no child support (against her lawyer’s wishes), and no spousal allowance as she started to make more than I did last year. I am very fortunate in that regard. Also, the dude she’s with is so laughable, it’s made things a bit easier emotionally and mentally.

            I learned not to confront her on what she did as she started to drop hints of parental alienation and lawyer involvement, so I shut my mouth real quick.

            • I was the main breadwinner too, by a very large margin. Stupidly, he didn’t get his own attorney and I got out with child support (he only wanted 4 days a month), the house, and my retirement intact. Amazing how much more disposable income I had after he moved out and didn’t have access to my account…..

          • It all sucks. Also sucks for chumps who sacrifice their career, education, and earning potential to support the household behind the scenes by managing it, raising the kids, being spouse appliance, etc. You build someone else’s home, life, career, image, community — and then when you’re getting to a point where you feel you can begin to settle in and enjoy your hard work and sacrifices, you’re left with nothing and face starting from scratch with very few resources; meanwhile, the FW has it all. That’s a pretty scary, and limiting, position to find oneself in.

      • Am I your sister?! This IS my exact story but it was 8 weeks not 10.
        It’s been 2 years and I’m grateful that the trash took itself out when he said he was leaving because he’d been so unhappy for so long. I had no clue.

      • My ex-husband’s justafriend coworker AP conveniently got divorced as soon as I discovered the affair.
        I lived through 10 months of in-house separation before I was able to get an apartment and move out. Within a couple of days of my leaving the marital home, she was spending the night there.
        It was a gift. It may have been the first and last time in my 18-year marriage that I felt validated.

    • Same script for me. 2 years of gaslighting that there was never an affair, they’re coworkers that got together ONLY after he left the house (despite going to marriage counseling, and him getting a burner phone). 2 years into the divorce process and we’re not divorced but they bought a house together. 2 months ago, they both signed an affidavit that they had an affair BUT it only started the weekend he came home and read from his “it’s not me, it’s you” script. I guess the lawyer decided he needed to control the narrative a bit and not let the judge think it was going on for what, a couple of years…. They’re not fooling anyone but the weak minded

    • Yup. It was three months before I had confirmation (through EZPass, bank account statements that he used my address for, and believe it or not some Boston Chinatown roast pork that he brought over for my son) that my ex started spending the night with long-time-friend-he-stayed-in-touch-with-with-my-blessing (#chump) 2 weeks after he told me our marriage of 21 years was over. I emailed him to let him know in no uncertain terms that if thought he was going to introduce her as his new girlfriend that he started dating after a reasonable amount of time had passed, he had another thing coming.

  • How about the Instagram post he made to his wife in March 2020 where he basically states what an ass he is – “Despite my best efforts, she remained married to me the past 10 years.” I gave her plenty of reasons, excuses, and opportunities to walk her fine ass out the doooooooor.” Sounds like Amy Rorbach will eventually get to the FOFO part of this relationship. If someone tells you who they are, believe them….

    • Amy and her husband wrote a children’s story about how to blend a family together.
      ☹️
      Holme’s wife is stunning and smart; shows no one is affair-proof!

      Two second marriages blown up. Hope the kids are alright.

      I worked with Amy doing some
      Charity work and was very impressed with her generosity and genuine friendliness. Such a disappointment.

      Depressing.

      • So true…both betrayed spouses are fabulous…this can happen to anyone.

        The kids will be just fine once they see how amazingly happy their parent is !
        ::::cough, sputter, wheeze, roll eyes:::

        • The fuckwit saying that the kids will be fine once they see FW is happy is supreme bullshit.
          I don’t think most kids know or care if their parents are happy, to be honest.
          Kids just want a stable home environment, where they feel loved and valued, with both parents if at all possible.
          Completely upending the lives of your children to pursue other relationships and your own personal happiness are the actions of an entitled asshole, not a good parent.

          • Ooh, that last line is so good, I may have to use it in our child custody mediation!! Mediator believes there’s a separation between FW as a FW, and FW as a “dad”. No, one and the same. 🤬

          • Oh my yes.

            Repeated over and over during ‘The Troubles’: “The best thing I can ever do for my girls is give them a mother who’s happy.”
            Stated another way: “If I’m happier, then everyone around me is happier.”

            I can’t think of a more obvious justification of narcissism and entitlement.

            • I will give my girls happy mother/ by destroying the family, introducing a new “ daddy” and sibling, by showing them that even when everything looks ok- it may come crushing down without a notice.
              Yes, sounds great 👍

          • Yep. My son is the proof of that. Suicide attempt in 7th grade, more depression in high school, and he just told me he was thinking about killing himself at college, but he didn’t because of the pain he’d cause me. Ex-FW neglected our son since he was six years old in favor of pursuing other women. I knew he was never around and paid no attention to our son, and we fought about it all the time, but I just thought he was an ass, not a cheater. To ex-FW, all my son’s issues are because he doesn’t have enough friends at college and should transfer. What an idiot.

      • She and her husband who she wrote the book with also got together very closely on the heels of their first marriages ending. This is the second time Amy has had such an amazing coincidence happen!

        • I was wondering about that. Shue and Rorback both left previous marriages the same year. It brought to mind the studies about poached relationships not lasting because both poacher and poachee tend to have low commitment, dark personality traits and eyes out for better alternatives. Never mentioned in those studies is that the fact someone cheated in a previous relationship can and will be used against them as a rationale the second one party wants to cheat. “Well, you cheated on your last relationship” has more teeth than “bagged salad.”

  • The number one nonstarter for any relationship? The object of your attraction is already in a relationship.

    But that has NO BEARING on the abysmal divorce rate. NONE. It is not even a teeny tiny eeny weeny contributing factor.

    It’s the concept of MARRIAGE that is the problem. How can any human be expected to keep an agreement or exit ethically before getting involved with someone else? That is the craziest most unreasonable expectation ever expected in the history of expecting anything.

    I can scientifically declare there is absolutely no relationship between the failure of a relationship and the behavior of the individuals in the relationship.

    No linkage whatsoever.

    • I don’t understand what you are saying here. Are you being sarcastic? Can you explain another way? I am very interested.

        • I will add that Traitor Ex tried to post date the side piece. Little Hammer’s therapist requested we go to co-parenting therapy. I said no, having discovered he lied and hid money from me and conducted a secret sexual double life while attending therapy the entire 27 years of the relationship.

          He badgered me to go. For a year and a half. I refused, because therapy with a liar is a waste. I finally caved and the very first session, the therapist asked him why he thought Little Hammer wasn’t speaking to him and why she wanted nothing to do with him. He actually said, “Well, I left the family, then I got a girlfriend, and Velvet was really angry about it.” My mouth dropped open. When she asked me about the cause of the estrangement, I told the truth. Then her mouth dropped open. The next sixteen months of co-parenting therapy were the Velvet Hammer Validation Hour. It was worth the money.

          On another note, Little Hammer is learning about intergenerational trauma because of the book she is reading in English class. She told me she is really glad that I have been honest with her about trauma in our family history.

          Intergenerational trauma is real and affairs are a cause of it. That’s why I will always advocate telling the involved children with the guidance and assistance of a really good therapist.

          • Therapy works when everyone involved uses it like a mental health fitness club.

            Cheating is burning your house down with your sleeping family locked inside. Going to therapy at that point is like calling the fire department after the house has burned down.

            IMHO.

            • They are reading Maus, which I got when it was first published. They are also watching Jojo Rabbit, a film I love and took her to see at the theater.

              We occupy a unique position into how intergenerational BS gets passed down. Traitor Ex’s father, now 96, was Hitler Youth and a German soldier. His mother, now 86, was a indoctrinated German school child. Both parents grew up in significant poverty. The damage and the effects are alive and well, and visible to those who are clued in and astute, and to me very obviously passed on.

              • That’s a fascinating insight, thanks.

                May I recommend the recent “The Politics of Surviving: How Women Navigate Domestic Violence and Its Aftermath, by Paige Sweet
                https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57621685-the-politics-of-surviving

                For women who have experienced domestic violence, proving that you are a “good victim” is no longer enough. Victims must also show that they are recovering, as if domestic violence were a disease: they must transform from “victims” into “survivors.”

                I know that domestic violence is not necessarily part of chumphood but the controlling tactics of the abuser and the societal pressure to “get over it” and “be resilient” felt very familiar.

              • Affairs are abuse and a category of domestic violence according what I learned through my local DV help organization. I agree, and so do many of us here.

              • Very interesting observation about victims being under the gun to prove they’re “cured” as if the disease was theirs to begin with. If you read the chapter on DV in founding psychotraumatologist Frank Ochberg’s (coiner of “captor bonding/Stockholm syndrome”) book, “Post-traumatic Therapy and the Victims of Violence,” the authors explain the ugly history of bias and shoddy theories behind the clinical victim blaming. One of the authors of that chapter, Evan Stark, is now a major advocate for coercive control legislation outlawing subviolent forms of abuse. https://www.theacecc.com/post/not-all-bills-are-created-equal-a-review-of-coercive-control-legislation

                Clinical and legal victim blaming came up a lot when I was an advocate for DV survivors. Cheating was also a typical theme. In my experience, virtually all batterers cheat and cheating is increasingly being viewed as a form of intimate partner violence (IPV) and “coercive control”: https://www.joplinlawyers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/FINAL-COPY-Infidelity-as-a-Consideration-in-Domestic-Abuse-and-Coercive-Control.pdf

                One of the reasons cheating wasn’t commonly discussed in clinical circles was because lousier helping professionals, legal authorities and negative bystanders might interpret victims’ “jealousy” either as grounds that the victim fabricated abuse or proof the victim still hankers for the abuser which was taken as more grounds that the victim was “attracted/drawn” to abuse. Survivors learn not to bring it up to avoid further blaming/shaming. Also because abusers are often overtly jealous (not always– some conceal and deny jealousy, viewing it as a sign of weakness), discussions of possessiveness and jealousy are usually centered around abusers’ motives for abuse. But almost every survivor I encountered who’d been in a long term relationship with an abuser had infidelity stories. And it makes perfect sense. Battering is basically protracted rape, a means of gaining sexual control while enforcing double standards: “sexual freedom for me but none for you.” It’s a sex crime in a sense so no surprise that sex might be used as a weapon in that scenario. With the exception of genuine battering victims (as opposed to abusers who commonly play victim to their victims) who may “overlap” relationships as a means of gaining a defender (when the system won’t protect them) while escaping an abusive partner who will not let go (typically not a safe strategy since the types of people who will play “rescuer” in these circumstances are abusers themselves about 50% of the time), the psychology of cheating and battering share a lot of overlaps.

                There’s an accessibly-written book on batterer psychology by Canadian criminologist and researcher Donald Dutton titled “The Batterer” that describes several things which apply pretty seamlessly to cheating. One involves the “push/pull” dynamic of dueling, internally-driven fears of batterers of either being abandoned or “engulfed” by intimate partners. Part of feeling “engulfed” relates to both batterers’ and cheaters’ tendency to “mirror” victims’ ethics and views and pretend to be “good eggs” at first– a disguise that begins to feel more constricting and suffocating as time goes on, particularly since the abuser will blame the victim for “making” the abuser pretend to be someone else. Another overlap is something called “masked dependency” in which an abuser is so ashamed of weak and vulnerable emotions (such as feeling jealous or dependence on a victim, fearing abandonment, etc.) that they’ll deny jealousy and dependency while working to invoke these very feelings in a victim as a means of displacing the emotions. It fits with clinical research on the compulsive reenactment of childhood trauma but with victim/perp roles reversed in order to “master” the past trauma by turning feelings of helplessness (as a former victim) into feelings of power (as a perpetrator). Basically making someone else feel the feelings one denies is a maladaptive way of temporarily “freeing” oneself of those emotions. But those feelings always return which partly explains why abuse is cyclical.

                Also cheating could be seen as an effective means of denying dependency because, in essence, cheating “dilutes” shameful dependency by seeking to spread the dependency out among more than one partner. It also hedges bets in case the primary partner fulfills the abuser’s abandonment fears. It might explain why so many cheaters seem to do a type of victory dance when caught and express spite for victims, as if cheating had been an act of revenge against the victim for some unknown wrong. The unstated “wrong” is arguably that the abuser, rather than recognizing that their fears are internally driven and stem from childhood trauma, instead believe the victim deliberately “made” the abuser feel dependent and vulnerable (just like the abuser believes the victim “made” them pretend to be better people than they are). It also might explain why cheaters often attack victims’ self esteem– in order to simultaneously foster dependency in the victim and displace a cheater’s catastrophically low self esteem by convincing the victim that no one else would ever want them.

                Another way by which cheating seems to be the perfect expression of “push/pull” is that it’s a way of putting a dagger through someone’s shoe (making the victim believe they’ll have no future without the abuser) will simultaneously pushing them away (symbolic rejection of cheating). So cheating addresses both the fear of abandonment and fear of closeness simultaneously, sort of like how a weighted Bobo doll will reliably stay in place and bounce back up after being punched.

                If you read Evan Stark’s “Coercive Control,” it seems most DV victims report that psychological abuse and control are often more paralyzing than physical violence. Stark contends that the most effective abusers may never have to take their hands out of their pockets to completely collapse victims’ egos. In that sense, cheating is a potent tool of psychological coercion and control. But the overlaps in MO between cheaters and batterers suggest that cheating is a statistical red flag for future physical violence in the case the abuser’s subviolent methods start losing effectiveness. According to Dutton, abusers tend to operate on a “beat-by-need” basis, preferring less athletic and less legally risky methods of crushing their victims’ agency as long as those methods work and reserving the worst abuse for victims who dare to resist. This is one of the reasons why advocates like Stark are lobbying to criminalize coercive control– because not only is coercive control injurious on its own but typically precedes overt violence and domestic murder. In other words, cheating is a statistical red flag for violence.

                Anyway, this is the long way of saying I think battering and cheating are linked via coercive control.

              • HoaC, this is a brilliant comment. Will read the links and suggestions you’ve provided, thank you very much. I’d like to suggest one addition to your thorough analysis: You’ve written, “cheating could be seen as an effective means of denying dependency,” and besides of all the reasons you’ve included, I also believe that cheating is in essence a dependency shield because if the victim leaves, the cheater can reassure themselves that they’ve left “first”, by exit-cheating the relationship X time ago.

        • I am a world class smartass.

          Who married a world class dumbass masquerading as Mr Friendly Easy Going Nice Guy.

          Chump Nation is made up of people whose injuries are a result of the high cost of the low living of others.

          Snark is one of our most important tools of recovery.

          ❤️

        • I think that Confused Elaine was being sarcastic too. She did a good imitation of the FW response. I hope I read that right.

  • Narcs always monkey branch in relationships. They have no ability to live alone or not be in a relationship. We chumps have super powers…we can be alone and live alone if need be.

      • Our superpowers WERE in use while we were married… they were put towards spackling, trying to untangle the skein, pity for the sad sausages, holding the entire darn family together… etc.

    • Well poor FW’s, what if they make the leap and it turns to shit, then they would have to find a place to live, deal with legal shit, laundry, cooking. While that is all well and good for the lowly chump, THEY need stability. A comfy place from whence to start “dating” again.

      • Susie Lee, you have so many great insights. Thanks for putting things so plainly — makes perfect sense and highlights the blatant entitlement of cheaters.

    • So true. Fuckwit monkey branched from his first wife to the whore he left her for, whore left him, he monkey branched to me, then to the rat faced whore. No intervening period in any of them.🙄

      • Same – my understanding of Ex’s relationship history pre-our-relationship was that he had been in one relationship or another since he was in high school (approx 45 years ago) and had not had any stint of being single/ alone since then. And that those relationships were coincidentally and precisely sequential with no gaps in between. Now I suspect they were all overlapping. Probably every single one. And not just overlapping at the beginning and end – overlapping throughout.

      • Hmm, kind of fits with my perception that abusers switch back and forth between partners who either resemble their childhood abusers in some way (unsafe, duplicitous, psychopathic) and the “departure” from that childhood model (someone trusting, trustworthy, empathic, etc.). When the pain of being with a psychopathic betrayer gets to be too much, they switch to a “safe” bet… until the latter starts making them feel like monsters and they shift back to the original perp model, etc.

        Some research has it that abusers tend to compulsively reenact childhood trauma by either playing the victim or perpetrator. It might explain why, once in prison, Jeffrey Dahmer shifted from power-and-control oriented serial killer to dressing up in little girl clothes and pigtails and playing the passive sub to more powerful prison rapists. He seemed to shift rapidly between roles while in prison, sometimes playing the twee little girl and other times gruesomely taunting other prisoners which is what eventually got him killed.

        For the record, I never believed Dahmer’s and his father’s claims that Dahmer had a normal childhood. A lot of perpetrators lie to cover up for their own abusers or “disremember” abuse that they later emulate.

  • Uh oh, mine was seeing his physi-ho 3 times a week for his “bad back” before he left, had her photo on his phone, but told me I was crazy because she was doing IVF with her husband. She’s never been married. I guess he was merely donating sperm, how ungracious of me to dare to think otherwise 🤪 he still denies it after leaving her everything (including his share of joint property) in his will which fell out of his letterbox when I went to confront him… thank you universe.

  • I think I might have the Darkest Chump Timeline. Cold Slab O’Meat insisted to me and THE ENTIRE WORLD that he and the Sluterus NEVER TOUCHED until the day he moved out. He was very indignant I would malign the character of a woman who sent 5000 texts to a married man in a month!

    Well 45000 texts later (eight months to you and me) a baby pops out. In Facebook Fuzzy Math aka THEIR OWN WORDS that was also three weeks past the due date.

    When I was preparing for the LEEP procedure from the HPV this winning pair gifted me, I told my OBGYN this story. She sighed heavily and said, “A UTERUS IS NOT AN INSTANT POT.” And we giggled.

    It’s okay, Chump Friends. I have since actually met Tracy and some of you amazing Champ Chumps. We literally shared Lebkuchen. And now I’m LEBKUCHEN FAMOUS! We rate the experirnce Five Pine Cone Elves!

    https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/25827/german-lebkuchen/
    *Actual Photo of Homemade Communal Lebkuchen.

    • Luziana, I always look forward to your hilarity and you didn’t disappoint!
      “A uterus is not an instapot” made me lose it! I will have to borrow that; I know I will have a situation to use that!

      The lebkuchen recipe looks great, I will have to try it!

    • Speaking of lebkuchen…..

      For my entry in today’s lebkuchen discussion, I nominate Leckerlee lebkuchen for the ultimate lebkuchen award. I never liked lebkuchen until I tried hers. It kicked the ass of the lebkuchen my native German in-laws put out at Christmas. My native German therapist screams in delight when I bring her the annual Christmas gift of Leckerlee lebkuchen. The beautiful collectible tins they come in appeal to the artist and magpie in me.

      I prefer the minis, chocolate covered or plain.

      http://www.leckerlee.com

    • I have often wondered if you pronounce the first U in sluterus as a short U or an oo sound. haha

      I always love when you comment. Makes me laugh almost as much as the bag o’ dicks story.

  • Maybe it’s possible that the sex didn’t happen until after separation, (ha!) but no doubt it was the affair that caused the downfall of the marriages.

  • my X had an affair/tried to have an affair his direct report in his workplace. the xmas prior, we all went to dinner and i noted the flirting and discussed it with X later. he denied flirting happened. typical example of gaslighting. anyway, her husband also noted the flirting, as i recall, and looked concerned.

    so there were were, fa-la-la-la-la-ing through another fucking corporate event and they were flirting. the context? my X had just been promoted to VP. but they were flirting. FFS.

    flashforward to X’s birthday when he lied and took same co-worker out to dinner and they “discussed” their feelings for one another. i caught on when he returned home and his phone pinged with a TEXT FROM TISHA, saying “almost home. can i just say that i love you?” well, that was the end of our marriage.

    the next morning, i called a lawyer and my doctor. headed into the GP’s office for a lab requisition for STI testing, because that’s what you do.

    it’s thought that that Fiebeg leaked PI evidence to the Daily Mail. why not leak the paper trail of STI testing, therapy receipts for the trauma, etc. etc.? i mean, that’s evidence.

    • Chumpster yep your FW and mine were probably workout bros in another life…. Almost the exact same script. Only difference – the “love Rhombus” is downgraded to a “shitdecahedron” because FW and AP have been at this drill off and on for at least 12 YEARS, mowing down 3 marriages and one expensive bogus engagement on AP’s side plus collateral damages including many kids, one sweet grandbaby, parents, friendships you name it they have lit it all on fire before driving over it a few times for good measure in her old ass white “Benz” .

      The lie goes that FW, FW’s first ex, AP and her first ex were the best of friends, riding motocross bikes as a fun loving group and meeting up at the gym often. Then – chaos erupted when FW’s first chump wife and mom of his 2 sons “went crazy after her dad died” and began sleeping around with everyone in town and getting the boy’s girlfriends’ moms to arrange sex dates for her” . But wait there’s much more!!! Evidently AP spied FW’s ex fucking some dude and she told him about it. He really really appreciated her. She also “expressed her deep feelings for him and helped him through it all”.

      And then… When FW’s ex found out her cover was blown well she freaked out and concocted a huge elaborate lie about how FW and AP were fucking and told AP’s husband. FW and AP had to split up because of how it looked to the kids. They unfriended each other and went their separate ways and deal with the aftermath of the crazy liar on their own. So very saaaad.

      Then – fastforward 11 years and AP randomly reaches out to FW for Auld Lang Sine on Facebook, the dating site for married people on New Years day 2022. She’s engaged and he’s remarried, to me. He tells me he refriends her because he no longer cares about how it looks to the kids. Says he’s not attracted to her in any way. They talk about the problems in their relationships with each other. WOW he is so considerate as a friend.

      Here’s the truth based on what I found – Yeah they probably had an affair 12 years ago. They spun a haircurling web of lies about themselves and their spouses and wrecked 2 families. They both had spendy divorces and hurt many people. Once was not enough – when they got back in touch per the texts and DM’s I saw it literally took them about 8 days to get back in their old groove. AP came right out and asked if “wifey” saw his phone on the regular. He responded – no and her eyesight is bad I do what I want. And they were off again. I was done when I saw him text “are these texts getting you in trouble with Fiance? Followed by ” you’re so attractive, I love your pictures and keep thinking about what might have been” Dumbass forgot who pays the phone bill and the iCloud. Now 11 months later he’s dragging his feet because he realizes this divorce is going to cost him. Forget our house etc, AP has gotten super accustomed to flying on private jets (a perk of Fiance’s job) and by my estimation FW will be able to get about 3 Netjets trips to Maui with Villa stays and championship golf before his entire retirement is blown. I will NOT be there to see it.
      They really do suck I can’t wait till he’s out of my life. #byeee #sleepinginthebenz #underabridge #wishIlivedinafaultstate

      • ….. so the coincidence for these 2 is the usual – Her fiance is drinking too much and in her face, while I am sloppy at all wifeappliance tasks, not giving any sex services, filed for divorce and also snooping on him. She texts him every couple days – lets just say Fuck it and go to Maui! Imagine – both their “committed” relationships implode at exactly the same time and they get to go on vacation. Wow – amazing. They really do suck.

    • “we all went to dinner and i noted the flirting and discussed it with X later. he denied flirting happened. typical example of gaslighting. anyway, her husband also noted the flirting, as i recall, and looked concerned.”

      Same. I also discussed the flirting with FW. He acted so surprised, like he had NO IDEA he was doing it. LOL.

      I think AP’s husband caught on before I did. I remember one occasion when FW and I, and AP, were going to take the kids (our son, her daughter) to a movie and since her son was really too little to sit through a movie, she’d asked her stbx husband to watch him and he refused because she was going somewhere with FW. She tried to use me as a cover, telling her stbx “his WIFE is coming” but that didn’t change his mind.

  • In the spirit of the Friday Challenge, I’ll share serendipitous “synchronicities” …

    (1) FW just happened to be the one to hire AP at their small office of 12 people

    (2) only FW and AP would need to go on travel… together

    (3) AP would just “happen” to be at the same sporting goods store as FW and me. What a coinky dink! Of course she’d be all giggly and weird and not buy anything.

    (4) found out from FW’s family that the word from FW and his flying monkey mom were that I threw out FW because I’m so awful…. And thank goodness for for coworker AP because she took him in and saved him. They were just friends at work, of course. And then they fell in love! Serendipity!

    Just puked a little in my mouth.

    • I’m so sorry, Michelle Shocked…that’s terrible. That reminds me of certain things that happened in my situation, too. All of that seems to follow the cheater “script” perfectly. And when you confront them, they deny it or they tell people that they were never happy with you, that the AP is just a “friend” that they fell in love with.

      Re: TJ and Amy…they deserve one another. Two selfish people. I feel bad for the chumped spouses and the poor children in this whole fiasco. I even saw on another website where people were making racist comments about TJ and his wife, and it’s also the fact that this is playing out in such a public way.

      Amy is a pretty woman, but her character needs work (so does his).

    • What is it with the AP showing up everywhere the BS goes? I thought I was losing my mind – AP was literally everywhere, culminating in her copying my hairstyle!

    • This sounds familiar…

      FW got AP hired at his new job, and THEN they told people they were dating. I had asked why FW hadn’t recommended me for the job and he said “they don’t hire couples unless they’re in a stable relationship”. Which…an affair is not. He also lied and said she was working in a different departement, in a different building, but one day when he called our son, she was inexplicably on the call, even though FW worked in a restricted area she supposedly didn’t have access to.

  • This is when I remind myself that cheating is abuse and ex-FW engaged in gaslighting. My spidey-chump sense was going off for years until I found damning evidence. He still told me and his lawyer (and probably everyone else) that his relationship with his best friend’s widow began after our separation. It was going on when his friend was dying. What fucking cowardly liars.

    • During my (zoom!) divorce hearing, my attorney said, “Tallgrass probably found it hard to work on her marriage while you had a girlfriend.” That pretty much shut down his whole “poor me” schtick. Kind of a mic drop moment.

    • My ex told both lawyers that the affair didn’t start until we separated.

      My lawyer suggested we put AP on the stand to confirm that timing (and a few other “timing details”.)

      Funny how fast he panicked and wanted to settle.

      Liars to a degree that’s hard for regular people to fathom.

      • I love when attorneys support you to put AP on the stand. Mine did as well and also recommended we push to put their mutual supervisor on the stand too (FW and AP were coworkers — of course).

        It’s funny how fast a FW will settle when their secret, exciting fantasy love play is outed. Not so fun to brag about it together in court, eh? And apparently their boss didn’t love them both playing footsy and goo goo eyes during team meetings … and then having to draw up legal docs for them to sign to protect the company.

        It’s almost sad when a FW settles and you can’t witness the hilarity on the stand —- and the annoyed judge. At least I got to see it once (during pendente lite). Just me and FW…. But FW was such a lying idiot that the judge (thankfully a woman) rolled her eyes and granted me more than maximum. The more FW talked, the more money he gave me. After that, FW’s attorney made him settle ahead of court lol

  • As XW told my children, “we were both going through the same difficulty in our marriages, so we bonded.” Once I talked to AP’s ex-wife, I understood that the “same difficulty” they were both going through turned out to be “we were both having affairs and struggling with hiding them from our spouses”. Which would be a legitimate coincidence (if an icky one), except that the affair(s) they were having was with each other!

  • I am so busy I can’t remember anything specific (is this meh!?).

    But, wait! The time FW just had to take his ASSistant on a business trip to Orlando Florida and flatterfuck some how had enough time to visita Disney etc etc and fill THREE suitcases with shopping, one of which was lost by airline and FW hounded and harassed me to hang on the phone trying to retrieve it (it was never found). His complaint was I didn’t value his hard work.

    • Agreed, CW! Mine told me the same…that I’m a “moocher” who took him for granted (bullshit) and he was telling one of the OW that he was oh-so-hardworking but I didn’t appreciate/reciprocate (more bullshit). To hear him talk, nobody else in the world worked or put effort into anything but him.

      It’s part of the whole “play the martyr” bit that they do. Their way to somehow rationalize cheating and make it somehow OK.
      Also, re: the travel/business trips…yep, that’s the most convenient way for them to cheat because it’s *cough* for “work”.

      • Ugh. This sounds like my stbx. He is above almost everyone in his mind. The ones he feels inferior to, he worships. Like he used to worship me. I felt uncomfortable about it then, just didn’t connect at the time that it probably wouldn’t last. And he still tells my kids that he has a meeting in NYC when he’s going to meet the AP. (Thank you Verizon as he’s still on our phone plan and I can see where he is when he makes these claims) Even though his company rarely meets in person these days. Makes me feel bad for the kids that he continues to lie to them.
        He has not introduced the AP to them or any friends or family and it’s been almost 4 years. Friends with benefits? Who knows. Not my problem anymore and it feels SO much better!

    • Ahh, yes…my FW and his coworker were in Redlands, CA for work but somehow managed to slip away to Palm Springs for a night together. My ex lied and said it was ‘a whole group of them’ that went to Palm Springs for dinner that night. Uhhh-huh! Redlands must not have any good restaurants.

      • Interesting.., I live in Redlands and there are lots of good restaurants available.
        Palm Springs is a little over an hours drive from Redlands.
        Sounds like someone wanted to impress his co-worker with a mini vacation rendezvous..

  • My ex didn’t stay with AP (who was a years younger married direct report at work) because, I’ve guessed, she didn’t want to leave her marriage to a trust fund baby and her west coast cushy lifestyle to be a midwestern stepmom. But my ex recently got into a new relationship with – guess what — another, even younger (by 18 years) former direct report at work. My ex mysteriously disappeared during the Christmas holidays last year and unable to spend time with our son. Turns out New Supply’s young husband filed for divorce right after New Years. The divorce was finalized 6 weeks later and that weekend, ex and his young schmoopie went public with their new romance that ex claimed to our son “just fell into my lap.” Yep, I’m sure it did. Probably many times at the office. And to his new gf – The weekend your quickie divorce is finalized, you just magically find you have a romantic connection to your almost 50 year old former boss. They are still going strong almost a year later and everyone seems happy for them. Not my circus or monkeys anymore, but wonder how in the world I was married to a guy who has zero respect for marriage vows and relationship boundaries at work.

    • No More A Chump…you are mighty, and I hope you’re doing way better now!
      And I can relate to this part…”a guy who has zero respect for marriage vows and relationship boundaries at work”. That is what happened with my husband too. I wasn’t aware of boundary issues until I found emails/texts that were just a bit too personal for coworkers. With one of the AP’s from his job, he told her how he wanted to be child-free (the opposite of what he had always told me). There were also a lot of other instances where the line was crossed, but I didn’t see it at the time.

      • The time Schmoopie (our “office manager” in the family business) gave my ex a pair of slacks for Christmas. Am I crazy? Is no one else thinking this is an oddly inappropriate gift for an employee to give her boss? And yet I basked in gaslight for several more years before I wised up and left. I hope they have many happy years together.

        • One Christmas, FW was sporting a new pair of pajamas. He said they were a gift “from a coworker”. No coworker buys their supervisor pajamas. However, AP gets herself and her kids new pajamas every Christmas…

  • They must have manifested it at the exact moment their marriages miraculously ceased to exist. Fuckwits have speshul powers.

    Mine was fond of saying that life isn’t fair when called out on his shit. Oddly enough, life was more than fair to him and unfair to me. Surely he must have manifested a loving spouse, while I manifested a jagoff with a flatulence problem. Right?

    • Oh, and the synchronicity; FW was amazed to discover that Schmoopie liked to drink, listen to loud music, and fuck strange. That’s how he knew she was his destiny. I mean, how many people in this world actually like those three things? Surely it was meant to be.
      Destiny threw him under the bus as soon as he was caught. Then he threw destiny under a train. Ah, l’amour!

      • They like to mirror one another. Or in some cases, the AP will find out the chump’s likes/dislikes and copy that. I think in my case, one of the OW liked horror and thriller movies (like me) but what he shared with her was how they would bash people in private. I’m not a mean person nor am I two-faced, but they both got off on gossiping (like high school girls) and saying vile things about others when they thought no one knew. So that’s what they had in common.

        Also, when they start using phrases that the other person would use…………yuck. Destiny, my ass!

        • Oh, totally. FW was mirroring schmoopie like crazy. I was baffled as to why his tastes changed drastically all of the sudden.
          So they had being nasty little gossipy bitches in common. Charming. Has sweet, sweet wuv and tenderness written all over it.🙄

    • “Mine was fond of saying that life isn’t fair when called out on his shit.”

      Mine said “Uni, you are looking for a guarantee, and life doesnt give you guarantees”

      My response was “You get a guarantee on a car. We made a covenant which is much bigger than any guarantee and part of that is a commitment to not date”

      • Or how about this…”you can’t have it all”. To him, this was an appropriate response to me asking for honesty and fidelity, as well as to stop future faking.

        • Ugh, PC. They love those kind of clichés. They think they sound smart when they trot out crap like that, and they really mean that *they* can have it all and we can’t. They do their best to make sure we have nothing and they snicker about it. They have to “win” at all costs.

      • Amen, Uni. Marriage vows are supposed to be a guarantee, actually. For FWs they are just a suggestion, because speshulness and all that.

  • FW has apparently NEVER had an affair lol. He was kicked out (by me and my lawyer) in July of 2019 and I believe moved in with the affair partner around March of 2020 (had been living in his Dad’s very large 2 million dollar home). He and AP live in another state (not NEARLY far enough away), but FW didn’t think anyone needed to know this. I assume he’s still living there, I believe the kids have met her and been to the house, but they never do overnights or spend much time at all with him. When I fill out the school forms and they ask for the father’s address I just write “unknown”. While he will, I’m sure, maintain that he’s never cheated on me. I have the cell phone records from Dday 1 where he called his university student 68 times in one day, and my favorite…. Before I even filed for divorce he had written the AP a love song – and made out a dedication with her full name and he dated it (March 19, 2019) . The song is absolutely hysterical, but I made a million copies of it while I was getting my ducks in a row so while he may completely deny that he ever had an affair I’ll always have this written proof in the shape of an absolutely dreadful attempt at songwriting.

      • I never wrote down all the words, but it was something like:

        “Take a good look over there
        at the chick with the wavy hair.
        She’s a supernova burning out the sky.
        When she’s standing next to me I can barely fucking breathe

        M- is a punk rock drummer
        She’s a riot gurl stunner
        And now she’s keeping time to the rhythm inside of me”

        But they were just friends.

        It’s even funnier because “stunning” is … not the word I would use to describe AP. She’s goofy looking and rather plain. She resembles a greasy teenage skater boy, honestly (or did when she had her hair long – she cut it really short and dyed it purple now), though she painted herself up with too much makeup to try and look “hot”.

  • I remember when Robach got married to Shue. Me, being a nosy person that I am, looked to see her history and found it interesting. They had both been married before and had conveniently divorced their spouses. So the timing of their relationship was a little fuzzy and questionable. And they even wrote about how wonderful it was to be in a blended family. It might have owls or other birds in it or mice or something but I know it was supposed to be a positive thing.
    So now Mr. Shue’s children, who probably bonded with Robach, are going to have to watch as she wanders off into another relationship with her children, who probably bonded with Shue. It was all just so lovey- dovey. We should be happy for them.
    The divorces will be private and all parties will behave like ladies and gentlemen. Rats!

    • Narcs gotta monkey branch! They use until they find someone else. I saw a text from my X to our kids “ I suppose your mom will run out right now and get another man”. My daughter replied, “no, she’s not like you”. I hope it burned like it was supposed to! 🔥

      • Your daughter sounds like a smart kid! 🙂 I love how cheaters assume that finding a new “replacement” is our first priority. Nope…for some of us, we are trying to heal and recover and figure out what to do after betrayal.

    • I was wondering about that.
      Mr Shue was probs so sure that he was magical and his Schmoopie would never do that to him.
      Yawn.

  • Case in point: At the start, FW suddenly loved me, but was not in love anymore and wanted to separate. I asked – do you want to separate because there is someone else? No. He’s very confused right now, going through a hard time, and just needs some space. I refused separation, but eventually moved in with my parents because his abuse was getting so horrid. We agreed in our therapist’s office that although we’d be living apart there was NO seeing other people. After I found out about the affair – that was going on LONG before he even asked to separate, he told me he “thought it was ok because we were separated”. I told him, absolute bullshit – you knew that wasn’t ok. Cheaters are liars and gaslighters – there is literally no way to cheat without doing both. I say these two winners deserve each other – let them lie to themselves, others, each other – can’t think of a better punishment than the two of them being a couple.

    • I could have written this word for word, except that he didn’t tell me it was okay because we were separated – he told his attorney. But apparently didn’t know/remember that in my state it makes no difference (not that it was true – it started long before we separated). It’s still considered adultery.

  • Mine knocked up the OW the VERY FIRST TIME THEY EVER HAD SEX! It’s definitely not more likely that the affair was physical long before he admits to it — nah, no way. It was just a miraculous twist of fate affirming that they’re soulmates! Yay! Twu wuv!

  • There was a recent article in WaPo about “Christian” singer Amy Grant and her husband Vince Gill. They swore they had no relationship while they were married to other people. Uh huh. Yup. Sure. Please don’t piss on my feet and try to tell me it’s raining…so insulting.

    • Oh yeah, I remember all of that. It was at the VERY least an intense emotional affair that went on for years. Vince’s wife found an “I love you” note from Amy in Vince’s golf bag. He refused to break things off with her, so his wife filed for divorce. Amy likes to tell this anecdote about how “grim” her three kids looked in photos from her and Vince’s wedding. Her kids rejected him for years and apparently only came around after the “ours” baby was born. I think Vince finally kinda admitted that there had been an affair at one of Amy’s daughter’s wedding. He was giving a speech and said that “they didn’t do things perfectly” or whatever… it’s been ~20 years. I’m sure Miss Amy the Big Christian thanks Jesus every night for sending her… someone else’s husband. Truly the man of her dreams.

    • Thanks for mentioning that! I love their music, I won’t lie…both are very talented.
      But the fact remains that they were cheaters. It doesn’t overshadow their talent, but they what they did to their families was inexcusable.

      I think they later admitted that the affair started around the time they did the song “House Of Love”. You can definitely tell that something fishy was happening just from the video.

  • We didn’t have the same “crazy coincidence” of our marriages imploding at the same time. She actually left her husband around the time that we began our wreckonciliation. What did start strangely happening would be the at FW would take the kids on outings (alone time with them was never his strong suit) and “oh, how crazy. Coworker and her kids happen to be here too!” I can’t help but wonder if it was intentional to get me to boot him to the curb (which I eventually did) because why else bring the very much verbal children around the AP?

    • My kid actually complained to me that every time he and daddy did something together “those kids keep popping up” referring to AP’s children. It annoyed him. And yes, AP (and sometimes her kids) seemed to just “happen” to be places that we went. All the freakin time.

  • Since my X is detached avoidant, with mid to high narcissistic traits (actually diagnosed by psychiatric testing (court ordered) ‘cuz I know there are people who disapprove of calling everyone a narc). Anywho, he’s never spoken to me since D-day because you know, I’m a pee-on now (of no use) & he’s avoidant. However, I’ve learned the cover story they told my kids:
    “AP was being physically abused by her partner the same time your mom was verbally abusing me”. Yeah, I hate it too when I have to call-out FWs for their bad behaviour! The ex-partner works for a friend of mine’s husband. He has a different story, but the AP knows how to give a sob story for attention & to lure men into “rescuing” her (not giving the X a pass here, he was all-in for the kibbles). Apparently she gave the same story to the ex-partner too. I wonder what the cover story Amy & T.J. (isn’t that a child’s nickname?) are telling each other’s kids?

  • Yep all of the sudden they wake up and realize they don’t want to be married. The next thing they do after this wake up is go to the office and realize they are in love with a co-worker. Of course they did not realize their love until after separation. (barf).
    My Ex was “divorced in his mind” because he was never happy so he trolled the internet and eventually found his 32 years younger Schmoopie. I had the feeling something was wrong because he was nastier and more moody than ever. He was never happy with anything although in all the notes I found to Schmoopie, he stated that he deserved to be happy, he was never happy, I was more involved with our son’s life than with his, etc (pretty much the standard cheater’s whines). Once my son found the video of evidence of the fuck fests on his shared photo account (son is an adult in the Navy and keeps the account to send pictures to me (well it was us then but after he found this, he went no contact)). I did confront the ex and he went on with the usual list of all my faults (everything from soup to nuts to include insults about my appearance). I filed, he tried to fight, we went to mediation with a retired judge. At this session, we were allowed to present our case (in a fault state) so the videos, receipts for gifts and vacations and everything came out. After that, FW settled in record time. I got what I wanted and a few things I did not ask for. He had to assume all of his debt (yay).
    Schmoopie got herself a real prize. Although he still has a good amount of money, Schmoopie got herself an old FW whose adult son is NC, who has no home (just an apartment to serve as a love nest), a hooker habit (she may not be aware of his use of happy endings places) and a moody AF personality that ensures that every happy occasion is spoiled. Divorce is final now (10 days) after almost two years of him delaying and fighting EVERYTHING. I could not be happier that it is over and I no longer have to walk on eggshells.

      • Really gave me something to be Thankful for on Thanksgiving. Such a relief to have a holiday that was not spoiled by a FW.

    • “Divorced in his mind.” ^^This. Best Regards came home from a weekend getaway he’d disinvited me from and informed me he was leaving me for a woman he’d met 3 weeks before and hooked up with that weekend. And for my information it wasn’t cheating because he had decided he was leaving me before he kissed her…. That’s funny, I thought: I definitely remember having to agree to get married; it was news to me that I didn’t have to agree to get un-married. But apparently that’s how marriage works in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

      • One of the many stupid things ex told me was well, it isn’t cheating since we weren’t getting along.
        This was during the time I was pick me dancing, reading relationship books, being the understanding wife/doormat. I knew something was “off” by his mood swings. I never imagined he would cheat.
        :Later he told me he wanted something different. He told everyone else he was concerned about my mental well being and couldn’t take it any longer .
        He was so concerned about my mental well being he left for a business trip and never came back.
        That’s how concerned he was.

    • So happy you are free!! Hope you have a lovely Christmas/Holidays with your lovely son and his friends

  • When I went through my DDay and divorce I read that almost all affairs are with coworkers for various reasons. My XW had her affairs with coworkers. We would go to the AP’s houses or to do things with them and their spouses.

    Number 2 reason why I would only date divorced/widowed/single women after I was divorced was because I wanted someone who was 100% free from their last relationship. I also knew that my XW would spin it that I was cheating on her if we were still legally married. Which she did because I talked on the phone with a woman who I dated in high school when we were separated.

    • Agreed on the coworker part, definitely. It seems to often start with a lack of boundaries (on both sides). They share more than what is appropriate between colleagues, having intimate conversations or flirty “banter”. Then it escalates into complaining about the husband or wife. Then they look for excuses to spend more time at work or their behavior at home changes. In some cases, their sexual habits might change too.

      Some people have no character or self-control, and it spills over into the workplace. This Holmes/Robach debacle is further proof.

  • As for the main timeline–when the affair started and whether it was going on during the mirage–x seemed to tell the truth. BUT he was a master at distorting other timelines (and, more broadly, other bits of history). #cuzliar

    For instance, he insisted that I got a lawyer BEFORE he said he wanted a separation, but that is completely false. What was weird was that it wasn’t a distant memory we were trying to piece together. He made this false claim only weeks after the fact…and despite written proof that he was wrong.

    There were so many other instances of gaslighting about the timing. When I was still in contact immediately after D-Day, I occasionally would send him screenshots of our conversations to prove what had been discussed, but it didn’t matter, which drove me nuts until I just let go of my end of the rope.

    There’s no arguing with these types. I’m not sure how many of them believe their own lies. I have a feeling mine did. He needs to feel that he isn’t a total shit in order to look at himself in the mirror.

    • Why do they insist on retconning our lives?
      Cheater x was a master at this. It would literally be less than 5 minutes after some bullshit move on his part before he started spinning either the timeline or what he said to advance his “case” against me as a terrible person and an even more terrible wife.
      At one point I offered to bring up the recording from our security cameras so he could see for himself what really happened and he got SO ANGRY. “You always have to prove your point!”
      I wasn’t trying to prove anything, I was just sick and tired of the gaslighting and foolishly thought that if he saw the event in question he would quit with this tactic.
      Nope.
      Instead he ripped the wires and cameras down.
      I got that on the recordings. An angry, screaming gremlin storming from camera to camera and yanking everything down from the ceiling. 😅
      I saved those recordings (and others) just in case I needed a restraining order, but just the threat of me going to the police was enough to get me the distance I needed from him.

    • They throw lies like monkeys throw poop. They’re looking for a lie that sticks and gives them what they want.

  • A crazy synchronicity …. but one step removed. While I still get on well with my MIL – she is a Chump herself – there is still the odd occasion when I need to explain things to her that shouldn’t need explaining.

    She tried to tell me that it wasn’t fair that our 3 kids (now 19, 23 and 26, but 11, 16 and 18 when Ex-Mrs LFTT left the four of us to be with her AP) had so little to do with Ex-Mrs LFTT and as little as possible with her AP. She finished off this mini-diatribe with the statement that “I think that the children still struggle with the short interval between Ex-Mrs LFTT leaving you and then taking up with AP … that’s what the problem is.”

    My response was “MIL-name, there was no gap and you know that there was no gap. They were having an affair – AKA a great big overlap – that the children discovered. They know that when Ex-Mrs LFTT denies it, that she is lying. The problem is not the gap; the problem is that she had an affair and made it worse by repeatedly lying about it ….. and every time that you repeat Ex-Mrs lies you damage your grandchildren.” I’ll give her her due; she is now much more circumspect about parroting Ex-Mrs LFTT’s BS in front of our now adult children.

    LFTT

  • Yeah…….. after catching him getting off with porn, several deaths in family, rough pregnancies and major health issues, FW says he felt I just wasn’t there for him. Only after that did he sign up for Ashley Madison and eharmony. Three weeks after fourth son born. Wtf! Then 2 years later when he was sure I still wasn’t there for him, the hookers started. So I’m his head it is all above board. Hmmmm

  • My chumminess is mostly of the sex worker and ONS variety so I don’t have experience with this phenomenon BUT fw did start having women over to the house one month after separation, while I was out of town with the kids, while my friend and her kids (my kids’ friends) were staying there because her house was just put up for sale. And he tried to sleep with my friend. How quickly they move on.

    I also wonder: through all the fast new relationships, how many of our FWs were also asking us chumps to wreckoncile?

  • “complicated love rhombuses”
    I just love that, lol! I also loved how “their obsolete spouse just drifted away (amicably, for the best really)”
    It’s so accurate a description of how they view it. It just happened is all, no guilt necessary to dispense anywhere at all! Great analysts once again CL, the truly innocent FW’s are so misunderstood.
    Love is love, it can’t be suppressed forever when it was just written in the stars to bloom people! Can’t be helped.
    We can’t be the slightest bit surprised that liars lie and cheaters cheat, that’s all they basically exist for.
    And image management is yet another narcissistic skill set they treasure above all else. They want to screw their whole family over in incomprehensible ways, yet remain untarnished and pure to the rest of society, be seen as a good person.
    It’s incredibly critical to the unfolding of the whole plot for them. The pathological liars in them even convince themselves that it’s an accurate representation of how it went down.
    It’s not another woman ( she had been his mistress for 5 years when he’s saying this to me) It’s just that we don’t communicate and have grown apart and want different things from life. He told me he just wanted to live an “honest life”. ( spit coffee moment!) 😳
    He was tired of taking care of people anymore ( you mean your family?! But you still have that extra bonus of time to blow your mistress I guess, # priorities)
    He told me he could live a thousand different lives. ( moving on is no problem for him, just like putting on a new pair of socks daily)
    He just needed change is all ( he’s so different and unique compared to others, he has more advanced needs than the mere peons of the world have.
    He’s bored of the same old wife and same old beautiful family for too many exhausting years now to count and just wants to change that up a bit.
    Why is that so hard to understand?! ( because it’s so amazingly narcisstic it’s not even relatable maybe?)
    He literally added his whore’s name to our family insurance plan on the website and when I brought it up with horror and shock, he very nonchalantly stated, well, we HAVE been sharing an apartment together. (Duuuhhhhh!!)
    Implying, you stupid bitch, of course we need to protect our belongings with some practical rental insurance, doesn’t everyone?!
    It’s incredulous to me how they try to distract you from the elephant in your path and try to make you concentrate on the tiny curious pebble they are showing you in their hand instead. (Gaslighting fuckwittery wizardness at its finest.)
    But, he didn’t want a divorce because of the long adulterous affair he was engaged in, it wasn’t that at all!!
    What was wrong with me?! (Get your eyes off that elephant and back on this nondescript pebble I want you to adore in my hand, so you can think of nothing else.)
    It was just our differences that caused this to happen.
    It just happened, let’s move past it and into our new and improved lives! We should both find happiness. ( Why are you so bitter and anger about this? YOU have issues!)
    You mean, the differences that you fucked strange throughout decades of our married life and I stayed always loving and faithful to you? Those differences you mean?
    No one is buying your outrageous re-creations of reality FWs of the world! You are all sleezy lowlifes and they isn’t a narrative you can attempt to hide behind that will change the truth, no matter how desperately you wish you could make that happen.

    • This! Exactly my experience with FW and his lame excuse of “we’re just two very different people”…when in reality it was his affair of 3 years with the basic-broad (I use that term loosely) as they are purportedly “soulmates”. Incidentally, a mere 4 months before they started a physical affair, FW and I had entertained “basic-broad” and her then-boyfriend in our home. Boundaries…what????? He moved directly into her home (we’re friends..that’s all…Funny I had never heard of her mentioned) and tell those who will listen that they started dating post-separation. Nobody is buying it…too many flying monkeys and too many who recognize that the timelines don’t line up. Anyhow, your story resonated with me and I am curious as to where all the FW’s buy their playbooks on cheating…they all do the same thing and are suprised that nobody buys into their delusional and fantastical narratives.

  • My ex pos claimed that he couldn’t remember the last time he’d spoken to the ex gf whore, and they were “just catching up”. He’d lie until he realized what I knew then change his story to acknowledge ONLY what I could prove while playing dumb and feigning memory loss.

    I’d found FBI messages going back our entire 13 years together. I checked the phone bill and it had been a couple of years since her number showed up, but they’d clearly been communicating on social media….FB/Linkedin/etc. I noticed that on a LinkedIn message I found he’d given her his work number….there it was.

    After I left him his phone was still on my plan. Less then a month later I checked it and sure enough there were multiple phone calls and many texts per day.

    I suppose it’s technically possible that the whore he couldn’t remember the last time he talked to just magically appeared in force after I left him.

    But I doubt it. I wonder if she’s still on her 5th marriage like she was when I left him and she was clearly still carrying on with him? If his broke, limp dick, shitty toupee wearing ass is the best she can do I feel bad for her.

  • Ex asked me for a “trail separation” just one month after “his friend” asked her husband for one. We were in couple’s counseling at the time. The only good piece of advice our therapist gave us after he asked for the separation, was “Don’t vent to friends of the opposite sex about your marriage problems, because that is how emotional affairs happen.” He immediately started arguing with her about this rule, how he needed to be able to talk to his “friends.” Why on earth I didn’t walk out then and straight into a lawyers office I don’t know. I was still desperately trying to save my marriage and thinking ex would come to his senses.

    Wouldn’t you know? Not long after his friend asked her husband for a divorce, he asked me for one too! They continued the lies about their timeline. I think in their (second) wedding vows they claimed their first date was in August. Um, no… they had sex in the marital home in July, but maybe it wasn’t a date because he didn’t buy her dinner? IDK. I guess even earlier in June he was asking to invite her on a family vacation with his relatives but was shut down. Why would you want to take someone to Hawaii you hadn’t even been on a date with?

    Not my problem anymore. Water finds it’s own level, and leopards don’t change their spots. Life is much calmer not having to be the marriage police / truth police / money police (unless it involves our daughter, in which case, I have the courts to help me now).

  • Ah. Yeah. Well. Before mediation, FW was adamant the kids should not meet any AP for at least two years. I found it weird because said FW was not interested in sex, and I never looked outside of our wedding. The subject was raised during mediation in May and quickly shut down by the mediator (a lawyer) on grounds of freedom. Then in late December kids started telling stories of a lady leaving messages in Dad’s kitchen. I breezily said it could be the help. The kids insisted. “There were little hearts on the messages”. “We saw her coming from his bedroom after breakfast” on the 28th of December. We were officially divorced on December 21st. Tssss 🙄 Now I know why FW never raised the subject again.

    • Yes, you lived a common Chump version of that tale and it sucks. My Cheater was sure the kids would just love OW. They met her once but did not know that she was the proposed step mom.

      One thing that made me smile was the “long ago Chumped and now making a life” version…

      My now husband had been single for 12 years after his heartbreak. Bachelor Colonel in DC with nice help to assist with cleaning. Nary a woman entered his place for years. I imagine the look on their faces when they saw my pink and black silk robe hanging in the bathroom. “Oooooohhhhh the Colonel has a lady friend!”

  • I read all 300k articles about this yesterday. TJ and Amy flirted so heavily on GMA that it seemed almost obvious that something was going on, or would go on once the wedding vows had been pushed into a corner and abandoned. Today, Page Six has an article about TJ’s wife: allegedly, they’ve been separated for six months and she hasn’t been wearing her wedding rings. What’s curious is that after the news broke yesterday, TJ *was* wearing his wedding ring on the air. So what is the truth? Also, why delete the instagram accounts if everything was above board? Guilty as charged.

  • Exactly my Dad. Never even thought about hooking up with his secretary, never had a thought of dating _anyone_, really, until the divorce was fi–….oops. Car spotted out front of her place at 11 p.m., Your Honor?….Well, she was separated from her husband at the time…And our wedding bells ensued zo promptly after her husband’s convenient death because yadda yadda…Just two sad, lonely souls consoling each other….

  • The ex said at mediation with emphasis ‘I’m single’. My answer ‘no you’re not, you are married and separated from your wife’. He had been having a long distance affair with exgfOW for years but there was no way that he was ever going to admit the truth. It’s pointless wasting energy getting these types to be honest. They lie about everything, big, small, important, unimportant. Their tediousness knows no limits.

  • STBXW and her co-worker “friend” were just friends, for real guys!

    She told me how her right wing, Republican co-worker friend who was married to a horrible woman for over 20 years started to come around. She walked him through women’s rights and why public schools are great! He agreed and they had sooo much in common!

    Now, he lives in another state, but it just so happens that whenever there was an event that one or the other didn’t need to attend – get this – they *both* had to be there. Coincidence! It also turns out that both of them had rotten marriages that were so beyond repair that neither of them could even mention it to their spouse. No, no, it was too far gone to ‘work through any issues’.

    And when schoompie left for a few weeks ‘to find herself’ and she was in dire need of a friend, he just so happened to tell his wife – who raised their 18 and 16 year old daughters and 10 year old son as a SAHM – that he *had* to hop on a plane for an overnight work trip that was where schoompie was staying.

    They were just friends, guys! That’s why he coincidentally showed up with condoms and she coincidentally was staying at a place with one bed and they coincidentally hooked up. No planning! 100% organic!

  • ‘Sources close to the couple described their first day back as “wonderful,” and told us they felt, “supported and loved,” by their ABC colleagues — who even said a prayer with them.’
    Imagine being the betrayed (abused) spouses and hearing that! Pure narcissist. They are proud of themselves.
    ‘As for the timeline,we’re told both T.J. and Amy separated from their spouses in August, just weeks apart from each other, and “shortly thereafter” began a romantic relationship.😂🤣😅 Do people actually believe that BS?
    How many of us were dropped under the guise of sudden irreparable ‘marital problems’ only to find out the cheating colleague was the marital problem!

  • Raise your hands to a sudden ‘I’m not happy’ only to find out there’s a cheating partner in your spouses life.
    Raise your hand If they had a plan ( to dump their spouses) and if they started off as friends with instant chemistry and chose to feed it.
    Two attractive people with chemistry working together all day long… ‘Oh let’s train for a half marathon together and spend all our free time sweating it up in the gym side-by-side.’ I heard she would work out in full hair and makeup…. Otherwise known as – a date!

    • Too bad she didn’t develop a terrible case of cystic acne by sweating it out with a face covered in makeup

  • Talk about an incredible timeline…

    Like my exFW who suddenly asked for a trial separation and a divorce because he figured out he got married too young… 11 years after our wedding, 8 years after our lovely daughter’s birth, 5 years after our son’s and coincidentally 2 years after his 2 week “business” trip through Asia with Schmoopie filled with fine dining and luxury hotels… Also lucky that he could magically move into a “friend’s” apartment in the city that happened to be unoccupied when he walked out on us.

    They magically fell in love and moved in together 2 years later when he was still dragging his feet about the divorce (aka consequences…), just when my kids happened to find her bra in the laundry at his place 🤦‍♀️. Real classy, all the way…

    • Yet another case of “instant chemistry” that took years to actively cultivate. At the expense of days, weeks or months of time added up which should have been spent with or at least on caring about children and spouse… give me a break.

  • The EX wasn’t into relationships so much as prostitutes and teenage girls. He had a small construction business, and he often hired extra help during the summers. Funny thing though… he only hired teenage girls. For construction work. I pointed out many times how odd it was, and I encouraged him to hire some boys too, because it looked weird that he was driving around all the time with teenage girls in his construction van and taking them to random empty homes all day for work. He claimed that he never got any applications from boys–just girls. Every year. What a coincidence!

  • My mom was dying of cancer. She said on phone one time before she died she thought my dad was having an affair. He had an affair with his secretary for 7 years about 20 years prior. That was the only one I knew about. My dad took care of my mom while dying and I said to her mom dad loves you, he is taking care of you, I dont believe he is. He seemed invested and my mom had stopped verbally assaulting him when she found out his affair. They had a good relationship from my point of view. So now in hindsight I see clearly what went on. His attitude shifted before she died to less of hey I have to figure out what to do when shes gone, maybe Ill move closer to you. Then when she died in hospice with me holding her hand my dad jumped up immediately after her last breath and made an excuse that he had to let in the cleaning lady. He was gone for maybe 3 hrs. I was alone with my moms dead body. Noone else there, my dad did not comfort me. I was upset and a bit confused. Not in my right mind to know what was going on. It was april around easter time the ground was frozen. She wanted to be buried upstate next to her parents. So they put her on ice. In the spring or summer the ground thawed and we went upstate to bury her. Fast forward 3 months and my dad was with us somewhere for dinner he says he has a date with a woman he was set up with by mutual friend/ colleague. She is a widow lost her husband when kids were little, shes younger than my dad but age appropriate. She is honestly very nice and I like her kids and their families. But Im certain of this scenario my dad mustve met her at his friend/colleagues house and talked about my moms cancer. Her husband died of cancer and Im sure they bonded over this. Then they started speaking over the phone about this, looking for support. Seems innocent enough right? Then my mom dies and my dad runs over to her house to cry in her arms for support, leaving me there for 3 hours waiting for them to collect the body. Great father right? Im sure he needed the support. And these NPD people only think about themselves. They are selfish. In the years since her death he always talks about his loss, his missing her. Never an acknowledgement of me missing a mother. Yes you lost a spouse but you got a new one. I dont get a new mother. At thanksgiving one year my dad made a toast at dinner, I was not there. Said how thankful he was for X to replace his ex wife. Yes my Brother and sister in law he said that he actually said replacement. And they called him out on that word and he was like oh i didnt mean it that way. And my family excused this because they thought he just misspoke. But we here a CN know that he did not misspeak. I try to limit contact with him and reached meh as a teenager with him. He was generous in paying for school, but I have been independent and self sufficient. I had to be. These people with personality disorders are so insidious. They look normal, can come across as normal. But there is something truly wrong with them deep inside which you discover if you have any sort of relationship. They also are so needy that they are the ones getting married, remarried, multiple kids. The nice normal people may never get married or have kids. The GMA hosts committed career suicide. Noone wants to watch affair partners host a show. Even if they marry noone wants to watch married cohosts. They ruined their careers, but probably dont need alot of money. Hope their spouses get alot of assets.

  • I just don’t get all the focus being on when exactly divorce was or wasn’t discussed with their spouse. Are you a hero if you dumped your spouse before going public with the reason for bulldozing your family’s life and betraying your partner?

    The cheating and the mentality of cheaters is the reason the marriage had ‘problems.’ The cheater is the problem. Not to say their marriages didn’t have issues. But wake up people, all marriages have problems. Life has problems. Marriage is life. Is it supposed to be earth shattering news that a marriage had some issues! That is a laughable justification for betraying your spouse.
    If the marriages were sooo bad, they could have divorced before striking up an affair – and let’s be clear, you don’t need sex to be cheating.

    So one spouse thought they were working on things…….big shit sandwich from a cheater. One spouse was dumped due to cheating and then the cheating became public, still a shit sandwich.
    Why isn’t the message : 2 marriages didn’t stand a chance because their spouses carried on an emotional, flirtatious, ‘friendship’ affair for a long time – to the detriment of their marriage.
    Then the entitled narcissists took it next level and as an afterthought
    decided to officially divorce their betrayed spouses.
    And they are quite happy with themselves because they feel entitled.

    • Zip, you speak the truth. My favorite point that you mentioned, which I somehow had overlooked: Of Course all marriages have problems. JUST LIKE LIFE HAS PROBLEMS. Why would anyone think this particular aspect of life would miraculously be problem-free and easy? Everyone on the planet disagrees (on some topics or many) with their workmates, family and even best friends. Again, how would anyone think this relationship where you (presumably) spend the most time and largest investment, would be smooth sailing and effortless? I’m stunned.

    • This post is everything. The last paragraph is exactly what I have just lived. My ex carried on what I now know was clearly an emotional affair with his employee for our ENTIRE 8 year relationship despite repeated assurances they were just good friends (she was married). And he wonders why he felt “disconnected.”

      Then came the “she’s in an abusive relationship” (pretty sure she’s just insane) and the “help” and “support” he was giving her. Which included referring her to his own therapist to help her get out of the marriage. Lo and behold, what a coincidence… as soon as she filed for divorce they had sex! Oh but it was just a terrible mistake! That you then kept doing for 5 months behind my back. Tells me after DDay that they ALWAYS had a sexual tension or maybe “slightly more than friends.” Reasoning given for why he never saw their relationship as a problem when I asked in the past? “I knew she would never have cheated on her husband.” Lol. Yes but it was just out of the coincidental and good natured spirit of helping a friend that you actively tried to assist her in leaving said husband. Got it.

      • “Then came the ‘she’s in an abusive relationship’ (pretty sure she’s just insane)”. LOL, yes.

        AP would go on and on about how awful and controlling her husband was. But she was one episode away from being committed. No wonder he had issues with her. She wrote in an email to FW that she used to sit in her closet and dig her fingernails into her arms until they bled after her daughter was born, and needed a year of therapy to deal with being a parent. I witnessed her sitting on our front porch beating herself in the head and saying “Stop it, M-. Stop it, stop it.” (Yes, referring to herself in the third person.) At some point before she and FW moved in together, she tried to kill herself with pills. Her KIDS WERE THERE. FW got her to the hospital in time, but she was put in a psych ward. He STILL moved in with her. I saw a photo of her ex a few months after she left him, and his family were commenting “it’s so nice to see you smiling again”. I only met her ex once or twice, so I don’t know. But I’m not sure he was the problem in their marriage. She said he had PSTD from his military service, but in the same breath basically said she thought he was making it all up and would ridicule him mercilessly for being “lazy” because he was on disablity for it.

        The most ironic thing is that FW said he couldn’t stay with me and wanted to be with AP because he needed “someone who is emotionally stable”. (Any emotional instability I had couldn’t POSSIBLY have been due to my abusive, lying, cheating husband. Not a chance. /sarcasm/)

    • So true!

      Entitled FWs don’t water their marriages and then point to all the dry needles on the ground as justification for cheating.

      Chicken/egg.

    • “Why isn’t the message : 2 marriages didn’t stand a chance because their spouses carried on an emotional, flirtatious, ‘friendship’ affair for a long time – to the detriment of their marriage.”

      At some point, one spouse walks away emotionally and in large part physically from the marriage. The devaluation begins, because they need a reason to continue. All of this of course done without the betrayed spouse knowing what the hell is going on. Oh we likely notice something is off, but when we question it, it is down played as work stress, or tiredness etc.

      Loyal spouses are quick to believe their spouse because they think they are both still in a committed marriage…

      Then the napalm hits.

      • “The devaluation begins, because they need a reason to continue. All of this of course done without the betrayed spouse knowing what the hell is going on.”

        Exactly. I think it’s the part about being 100% in the dark that still gets me. He was emotionally with her even when he was with me, but I had no idea. In fact, when he had that far-off look and wouldn’t speak to me, I worried about him, asking myself, “Is he struggling with his retirement? Is he depressed? Is he suffering from early-onset dementia?” And, of course, I took on some blame, too. He knew this. He played along, saying things like, “Yeah, I think I’m having trouble adjusting to retirement.”

        The fucker.

        Damn him for letting me worry so much and for allowing me to think there was something wrong with ME when all along he was mooning over her, planning trysts, stockpiling cash, and lying every damn day until he decided to tell the truth because he wanted to be with her.

        I’m happier now, so in a weird sense am glad it happened. But it didn’t have to be so painful. He could have left me before fucking around.

      • This!!!👆👆
        Exactly true Susie Lee. We didn’t get the memo they were stepping out
        ( very much planned one sided advantage).

  • This behavior worked out well for CNN. They are in the process of laying off hundreds. I’m sure if you peek under the covers it’s pretty the tip of the iceberg.

  • The way cheaters manipulate the story and how people buy into it is mind blogging. There are countless stories ( & a few recent celebrity ones) of marriages ending and then within minutes, one partner is madly in love with their ‘best friend’. And the innocent bestie is more than happy to jump right in and be the official love partner.

    But often the besties were the unofficial love partner for years.
    And the married spouse had to work with this competition all the while doing the heavy lifting of family life – as opposed to the bells and whistles of ‘friendship’ life.
    I thought your spouse was supposed to be your best friend?

    Then the old same old narrative. “There were problems in the marriage, this couldn’t have happened if it was a good marriage.” One thing that definitely wasn’t good about the marriage was this third person that your spouse is attracted to having such a prominent role in what should be your bubble.

    The Betrayal is enormous because first the committed spouse had to live with the competition and threat of this little “special relationship”in their partners life and then the ultimate doozy of being dumped for that person.

  • Jesse James is the latest example on the list of “Leopards Don’t Change Their Spots”. He cheated on actress Sandra Bullock, they divorced and he’s married to a much younger former porn actress. He strikes again and his current wife is pregnant.

  • Read so many times about those lebkuchens here so I just ordered a few items from a place in Germany that sells “Original Nürnberger Lebkuchen” online, bought 3 different kinds. Hope they are worth the money.. 🙂 Take care all you good chumps.

  • If ever we want to see the example of a cheater attempting to justify their behaviour, see the serialisation of British MP Matt ‘I fell deeply in love’ Hancock’s book in the Mail. The health minister who had to resign during lockdown after being caught breaking Covid rules imposed by the government of which he was a senior member. The form taken by the rule breaking was being caught on CCTV in the office, kissing and groping his university friend now partner. Shortly afterwards, his three young children and wife (the latter suffering from long Covid) were subjected to a late night revelation of his affair and the fact that he was leaving home, which he had to admit before the papers published the pictures. And the OW left her husband and young children to set up a love nest immediately with Mr Hancock. But still he couldn’t go quietly. He had to go on ‘I’m A Celebrity’ and is now parading his love around regardless of the impact on the six young children involved, let alone the chumped spouses. When people show you who they are …

  • Synchronicity…ah, yes. Like when FW got served with divorce papers and he raged at me: “Nothing happened with howorker, until AFTER you accused me of having an affair with howorker!!!” What a fucking coincidence!
    And just adding my two cents: FW is a major car rager. In fact, an epic episode of road rage is what precipitated my sneaking a look at his phone, and ultimately, 2nd and final DDay.

    • OMG……Asshat said “I never would have thought of her (HoWorker/Wife) if you hadn’t have suggested her”. It actually made me giggle that I have the “soulmate” superpower and “chose” a really selfishly demanding bitch!

      They really are unoriginal FWs.

  • This cheating has become normalized.
    Hilary Clinton has been chumped by Bill for years but she’s women’s role model?
    Bwahahahaha!!! too funny.

    • I am sure women who view Hillary Clinton as a role model do so for countless other reasons than her personal life. Also, can you clarify your CNN comment above? I am not quite sure what you are referring to…Thanks!

    • Mrs. Clinton has had a successful career in a man’s corner of a misogynistic world. She’d never have managed that as a divorcee. She chose to eat the shit sandwich and is a survivor of misogynistic abuse from all sides and definitely a role model in that sense. I’d much prefer she’d kicked that man-ho to the curb but I like to imagine that she laughs herself to sleep each night knowing that she’s switched out Bill’s boner pills for baby aspirin,

      Dude.

    • One article states that Holmes and Robach aren’t ashamed about their affair. They are two consenting adults who happened to fall in love.
      Adults? They can do whatever they want, they’re adults.
      No one tells us what to do?
      Right, who cares about the aftermath, commitment, spouses, children, family dynamics,.
      All that matters is their happiness.
      Holmes had an affair with the previous producer of the morning show.

      What do they tell each other? I love you, I mean it this time. Don’t worry, I won’t cheat, you can believe me

  • Feeling gullible after hearing about the ‘monkey branching’. I found out several years into our relationship that i was his third wife and infidelity was the reason for his previous marriages ending – both wives were work colleagues. He already has number four already lined up (yep – another work colleague).
    One day he yelled at me to NEVER mention to anyone how many times he has been married (his big secret).
    Both of my children hate him and became severely depressed after they moved in with him and his two kids (due to unreasonable double standards).

  • Oh my. 100% the BS story FW and AP tried to sell everyone. They “officially” announced they were dating after we filed for divorce and she had been divorced a couple of years. But they had been having an affair for about 3 years. Our kids used to have playdates together. AP came to my house many times. Just lies, lies, lies.

    Cheaters are so unoriginal, and they think they are so clever. They are neither.

  • There are so many cases of cheating and celebrity cheating. What makes this case particularly stomach churning to me is the whole ‘we are adults, we are separated, we have nothing to hide… proudly we go with our cheating partners.’ The narcissism and lack of empathy is over the top. It’s the whole sense of entitlement- just because you have kicked your spouses to the curb.

    When there is divorce caused by cheating, it means the spouses were abused, it’s traumatic, the lingering effects on the abused spouses and children is long lasting; there are severe short and long term negative consequences for the tossed out family to deal with.
    The fact that you got around to signing papers, is not the point.

    It would be different, if there was a divorce and papers were signed. And then later, the single divorced people who had not been cheating or looking around while married, bravely went out in the world and tried to find a suitable partner. That is when divorce papers mean something.

    When people have been cheating, then divorce their partners claiming it was an “unhappy marriage’ then gleefully immediately monkey branch into their latest relationship- with people they were in a relationship with while they were married (because they are separated so it’s perfectly OK), it speaks to complete entitlement and narcissism.

    Society has got to start recognizing that there are victims to this kind of abuse. Just because cheaters can be very attractive looking people, let’s not forget how unbelievably horrid their actions can be.

  • Update: Good Morning America has suspended these 2 cheaters, I believe indefinitely and due to public outrage. 👏👏👏 HOORAY!

  • My ex-husband is a licensed marriage and family therapist. That June, he told me how grateful he was for me, how much he loved our relationship and “mature love”, and how he couldn’t wait to grow old with me. That July, he reconnected with a former coworker, started “helping” her with her husband’s and brother’s mental health issues. That August we had an argument. That October, both he and his former coworker told their respective spouses that they wanted a divorce. That December they were “officially a couple” (but on the down-low – found this out months later). That January I moved out, then in February I filed for divorce while she (they?) moved into the house she’d been building big enough to accommodate the two of them and both sets of children. He told someone “it 100% *looks* like I left (wife of 17 years) for (new fiancée) – but I did not.” Mmmhmm, yeah okay – I only wasted half my life on him, no big deal.

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