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UBT: You Encouraged My Wife to Leave Me

waywardI get some weird mail. But perhaps none so weird as this letter sent to my Universal Bullshit Translator by John — a cheater. Yes, probably inadvertently, John has asked me to decode his own bullshit.

Here’s the letter:

Maybe you should focus a little more at actually responding and helping people a little more. My wife comes here and is encouraged to leave me. Listen! Some guys are and will always be assholes! They say they’ll change and everyone knows they give 2 weeks of effort and then it’s back to their old self. Whether it be alcohol, drugs, abuse or whatever. But there are SOME who actually go out, seek counseling, find out why they are acting why they are acting (because they love their wife and kids), find medication, change their lifestyle and change for the better forever. And we would all agree after a few months you know if you’re dealing with the same person or not.

I have multiple kids with my wife and yes I made a terrible mistake. But I went and did everything in my power. And things were going very well!! Until one day, right before we are supposed to move she says, “You’re not coming with us, I can’t get over it.” Meanwhile telling our counselor and our families how great it’s going, BECAUSE IT IS GOING GREAT! but turns out she turns to this site and is encouraged to “run away!!” Sorry ladies but not all of us are the same. Some of us actually love our wives. Some of us actually want to change and do! This website may have done more damage than was already done. Meanwhile I sit in an empty house, no wife, no kids, and change my career to be home more for the family and for my wife so now I don’t have enough capital to even afford my own place.

I did all I could to right the wrong. I truly love my wife. And I will never stop. Maybe someone will one day open her eyes back to the fact that I am the person she married and I lost my way. Thanks again!

The Universal Bullshit Translator could use a snack. Let’s begin.

Maybe you should focus a little more at actually responding and helping people a little more. My wife comes here and is encouraged to leave me.

The problem isn’t my cheating, the problem is your advice.

Listen! Some guys are and will always be assholes! They say they’ll change and everyone knows they give 2 weeks of effort and then it’s back to their old self.

After two weeks of effort, I’m still an asshole. But let me tell you how I’m different.

Whether it be alcohol, drugs, abuse or whatever. But there are SOME who actually go out, seek counseling, find out why they are acting why they are acting (because they love their wife and kids), find medication, change their lifestyle and change for the better forever. And we would all agree after a few months you know if you’re dealing with the same person or not.

Cheating can be cured in a couple months. Get over it already. I made a lifestyle change! Got new throw pillows and everything!

I have multiple kids with my wife and yes I made a terrible mistake.

Mistake. Singular!

Children. Multiple!

But I went and did everything in my power.

My manipulation appears to be failing.

#damnUpower

And things were going very well!! Until one day, right before we are supposed to move she says, “You’re not coming with us, I can’t get over it.”

Imagine that. Chump has an opinion. Like I’m supposed to respect that?

Meanwhile telling our counselor and our families how great it’s going

(The UBT has had a hypocrisy malfunction.)

OMG, you mean she presented one front to the world, but did another thing entirely?! You don’t say. The injustice.

BECAUSE IT IS GOING GREAT! but turns out she turns to this site and is encouraged to “run away!!”

The interwebz are so powerful. Stronger than my many weeks of therapy.

Sorry ladies but not all of us are the same. Some of us actually love our wives.

Ladies, hairy-legged lezbos, may I call you that? I’m sorry your men didn’t love you. (Work on that.) I actually love my wife appliance. I send her flowers, write poems, fuck interns. Go to counseling for like, entire months. Examined my lifestyle! #allkindsofawesome

Some of us actually want to change and do!

I’m not an entitled fuckwit anymore! I’m just indignant about consequences and indifferent to my wife’s feelings. #allbetter

This website may have done more damage than was already done.

Those bitter bunny cartoons hurt people. Unlike me. I just fuck interns.

Meanwhile I sit in an empty house, no wife, no kids, and change my career to be home more for the family and for my wife so now I don’t have enough capital to even afford my own place.

(The channel flips to the Sad Sausage setting.)

I can’t afford my own place! All my capital is being used to shelter my wife and children! #feelmysorry

I did all I could to right the wrong. I truly love my wife.

In that fuck-other-people-singular-mistake kind of way.

And I will never stop.

… sitting in this empty house resenting consequences.

Maybe someone will one day open her eyes back to the fact that I am the person she married and I lost my way.

I’m WAYWARD! I got befuddled and took a wrong turn. I examined my FOO issues, had a lifestyle change, and read some Healing Library articles. For entire MONTHS! Maybe someone will one day create a website for reconciling wayward people! And she will find it! And her little lady brain will be persuaded!

We can only dream that such places exist. Until then it’s just stupid Chump Lady and her Bitter Lady Brigade monopolizing all the advice and brainwashing people with this I-have-agency bullshit.

Thanks again!

Gotta find a new chump. Thanks for nothing, Chump Lady!

****

This is a rerun. Updated for more snark.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • still blaming everyone but himself, dude, the therapy is NOT WORKING LOL

    for a cheater to write a ‘poor me’ letter to ChumpLady is just next level clueless LOL

  • Sorry, John. Your wife is right, she won’t ever REALLY get over it. No website could possibly damage your, or any marriage, more than you banging a whore. It really is that bad. Even God himself believes adultery is bad enough to end a marriage.

  • Serial cheaters can’t comprehend that chumps could have agency in their own lives. When it happens, they are always baffled, feel cheated, and perceive it as disorder in THEIR universe. It is an expression of their narcissism and empathy impairment. Most of them would need to take a plane, a train, an ocean liner, and two busses to get outside themselves.

    • You nailed my ex. When I finally filed after a year of wreckoncilliation, he blamed my therapist. It couldn’t have been that I decided I was better off without a lying cheater. Yep, narcissist with major empathy impairment!

      • My ex didn’t want me to go to therapy because he said I would “realize I was better off without him”.

        Yeah, pretty much.

      • My ex blamed my friends who told me they saw him with his tongue down my best friends throat at a party. After 6 d-days that was the final straw

    • Nomar, this insight could apply to many types of disordered people – not just cheaters. And thanks, needed to hear this today.

    • This is my STBX. He really believes that because he’s in SAA and works with a therapist that I should trust him now. Never mind the 30 YEARS of lying, cheating, gaslighting and betrayal. He’s all better now and I am stupid for not taking him back. I’m “throwing away a man who loves me”. He really doesn’t see that all the therapy in the world isn’t going to make me forget what he’s done. Not to mention it’s clearly not working. He may not be dry fucking strippers on the regular anymore, but he’s still abusing me. He doesn’t get it.

      • SAA is a mostly a con. Their questionnaire is designed in such a way as to to make almost everybody think they are “sex addicts.” People go there to hook up with other skanks.

      • SAA is a joke. Klootzak went to a few meetings and then stopped saying they changed meeting location and he didn’t like it. So he said he started attending online SAA meetings. The online ones were co-ed. The in person meetings were all men. Guess where he found more APs? 🙄

        • Ah yes, the “13th step” is always popular. My jagoff ex went to SAA briefly, and not only were the meetings co-ed, but they went out to “socialize” after every meeting. Even the clueless FW thought that was nuts and that the group existed just for hook-ups. However, the only interest he got was from a gay guy. 😄

      • I’m “throwing away a man who loves me”. No, he did that. The moment he justified treating you like an enemy instead off someone worthy of honesty and respect, he threw you away. Not one thought in his head that the damage done CAN NOT BE UNDONE. You can never trust again that he will ever be anyone other than what he has shown himself to be. Self-centered, Me first ,tantruming toddler, babyman. Hope you are safe. Happy New Years to you and all of CN.

      • He’s probably fucking the therapist. I’ve met so many partners of sex addicts where the therapist educated in sex addiction was just a disgusting pervert who fucks all their “sex addicted” clients. It doesn’t matter if it’s a hot chick therapist or a fat, stinky dude covered in warts, these sex addict degenerates will fuck anything. If they found a corpse on the side of the road, they’d at least finger it for awhile and beat off before they called the cops. I’m so glad you’re getting a divorce. There is zero hope for anyone once they go down the sex addict road. It’s not help, it’s total immersion into their perversion.

    • “Serial cheaters can’t comprehend that chumps could have agency in their own lives.” Yes! This was a problem throughout my own “mirage.” My therapist explained to me that, to a covert narc like my ex, I was simply an extension of him. I still have trouble wrapping my head around that concept. It’s so foreign to my own way of thinking.

      According to Psych Central: “They [narcissists] don’t experience other people as separate individuals, but as two-dimensional, extensions of themselves, without feelings, since narcissists cannot empathize. Other people only exist to meet their needs. This explains why narcissists are selfish and oblivious to their impact on others, even when they’re cruel.”

      And it explains how they are thrown back on their heels when we assert agency and separateness. When they realize they’ve lost control, they feel cheated and victimized, which can confuse empathetic chumps and cause us to question our actions. #totalmindfuck

    • Yep, you nailed it. My ex was the one who dumped me. I found out he was cheating on me since before we even got married and lying to me. Somehow he is the victim. One of his whore friends was trying to make me feel sorry for him, don’t I understand this is hard for him too? Fucking how?! Everything was on his terms and he did and got what he wanted. He needs pity for brutally dumping his wife as cruelly as possible. They are ridiculous. They’d stab a stranger to death randomly and cry about how the stranger harmed them by bleeding on their clothes during the attack.

      • “Somehow he is the victim. One of his whore friends was trying to make me feel sorry for him, don’t I understand this is hard for him too”

        This is so common. Fuckwit actually stated in his FDR that “this whole process has made me ill” – as if he’d had nothing to do with the “process”.🙄

        His rat faced whore wrote me a vile letter complaining fuckwit had erectile problems, and this was my fault, because I “wouldn’t let him go”, and he felt “so guilty”. Which was quite funny since I hadn’t spoken to him since I walked out on D day, so goodness knows what he was telling her.🙄😆

  • This website didn’t cause your wife to leave you. Your fucking around on her did!! You deserve your consequences … sick jerk!
    BTW. Never heard anyone say “multiple children “. Creep

    • Multiple children = I used to have sex with her too! And it is all your fault I don’t have that supply anymore.
      Geez… what a load of narcissistic crap.

    • Yes, “multiple children” is rather a redundancy, isn’t it? Makes you wonder if his emphasis is in the cause of his sad sausage or his “I don’t want consequences and the child support is a bitch” narrative. Although I suppose the two are related: “Poor me, there are consequences for my action and I don’t deserve them!”

      • I think his sadz is that child support for “multiple children” isn’t cheap. How dare she leave? And he changed his career to have more time for the family. Ha! That sounds to me like he had a work affair and got caught/had to leave or he followed career with an AP. In either case, no matter. The chump does not have to eat the shit sandwich of being married to someone who lied and cheated on her no matter what he claims to have fixed. Too little too late. What can he do now? Oh, go unfuck those women and take back those lies. Can’t be done? Too bad. No one is entitled to a second chance.

        I just want to shout a huge congratulations to who ever the chump was for playing along and getting her ducks in a row. I wish we knew she was here and could get an update on how well she and the multiple children are doing. 🙂

    • I think it’s obvious where appropriate usage of the word “multiple” — i.e., “multiple” affair partners, “multiple affairs,” etc.– might have come up so much John’s puny, icky consciousness that it started displacing words like “several” or specific numbers.

  • Mr. Sadz: “Some of us actually want to change and do!”

    UBT: “I’m not an entitled fuckwit anymore! I’m just indignant about consequences and indifferent to my wife’s feelings.”

    CL, I love what you wrote so much that I would wash all your windows for you, both inside and outside.

    • Right!? And to that I say, take your cheating ass forth into the world alone and CHANGE then come back a CHANGED man and see if then, and only then, your ex-spouse wishes to give you another chance.

      Talking about change and effectuating change are not the same thing. And also, “change,” for something like this, is measured in years, not months. To even consider whether a cheater ex has changed (I wouldn’t), I’d need to see years of consistent good behavior (won’t happen).

      Realistically, the same goes for addicts. To even consider letting a destructive former addict back into my life, I need to see at least 2 years sobriety + active involvement in a sobriety program of some kind. Because people who really want to change take those types of measures.

  • Funny how it’s always about them. Do they ever try, (just a teeny, tiny, bit) to put themselves in their spouses place to understand the betrayal they must feel. Not to mention the (multiple) children and their lives being imploded. These people have no souls. I’m convinced of that. No morals. No idea what actual commitment entails. They go thru the motions of life with themselves at the forefront only. Now this dude has to live with the consequences of what he’s done and he’s blaming us Chumps who give his wife emotional support. No cake for him. What a douche bag. I hope she stays strong. Bless that woman and her children.

  • I noticed the comment about lying to their counselor. I’d guess it was marriage counseling. It seems like these days cheaters think that running to marriage counseling proves they’ve changed. Seems to me that marriage counseling is another form of torture for the chumped.
    Reminds me of the years of being married to a cheater alcoholic. I went to al-anon meetings while cheater alkie went to AA. I found that al-anon was tilted slightly towards figuring out how to live with his ‘disease.’ And I felt I was blamed for conspiring to aid/abet his alcoholism. It irritated me that I could not live my life without feeling at fault.

    • AA and Al Anon member of 37 years here. The above assessment has not been my experience with those fellowships overall, but I have had negative experiences over the years with individual people and meetings.

      As an alcoholic, I don’t.believe that condition is equivalent to cheating.
      Ouch.

      I am always available to talk with anyone affected in any way by alcoholism who needs help. Tracy can give you my contact info.

      ❤️

    • Children of addicts here. I agree with you. I didn’t find it helpful either. I don’t have to devote any time or energy to learn to manage another person’s sin and frankly, I think suggesting I do that is taking personal responsibility off the addict. I was not a fan. As much as people might say there’s no pressure to do that, I encountered a whole lot. “Oh, recovery is already so hard without being abandoned by your daughter!” *Hand wringing *

      Well, actions have consequences. If they haven’t figured that out yet, there’s no hope of recovery anyways.

      • I attended AL Anon for about a year back in college. It certainly helped me understand my alcoholic parents and the behavior of my boyfriend who was several years in recovery. I learned some very important detachment strategies that I still use today.

        But I left the group when I was villainized for not agreeing that it was wrong to have any kind of drink myself, though I do not have a drinking problem in any way, and as said, that I was to be ‘involved and responsible” for the alcoholics behavior.

          • A therapist of mine who ran drug and alcohol treatment centers for years used to tell folks that 12-step groups are like bars (LOL). If you didn’t like it at one, try another one.

            Locally, the Al-Anon and CODA groups are run by the same group of friends. They are not my people. They seemed a bit controlling and “off message” when I visited them. I was very turned off. I ended up elsewhere. My folks are good people, all about staying “on message” and having people work out for themselves what recovery is.

            Then, when I was helping a friend last summer who needed to leave her abusive ex, I observed how the same Al-Anon/CODA people interacted with her. My approach was to have my friend call the shots, and I’d bring in specific local help and resources with her approval. The leader of the Al-Anon got so angry at me that she called me to tell me that they were pulling out entirely and that there was “no hope” for my friend. Gosh, that was weird. My friend is now in a good recovery group and doing well.

    • I now realize that marriage counseling is just a way to bullshit and blameshift. It’s good for communicating problems but has zero impact on shitty character.

      All my ex did was lie and bullshit when he participated at all. The entire goal was to delay my leaving long enough to get comfortable in the marriage again.

      I didn’t work…..I left.

      • A therapist friend worked as a marriage counselor when she only had her masters. She hated it. Said the failure rate was over 80% and if people knew the actual success rate they would never go.

        She said the problem was twofold: 1–couples wait too long to go and the relationship is too deteriorated by the time they seek help, and 2–whatever behavior will s problematic for one spouse works for the other.

        • Absolutely spot on, which is why I won’t do couples counseling.

          I do spend time explaining why, though. And most people accept the reasons (see above).

          There’s rare cases when BOTH parties are willing to try, and in that case, I refer to couples counseling.

          But not if there’s been any signs of unilateral spousal abuse – and I count cheating as spousal abuse.

    • I’m glad you are free from the cheater Alkie. I understand why you might feel that way about Al-Anon and certainly many people in there are working hard to hang on and live with their alkie. Having an alcoholic or cheater in your life is like banging your head against a rock wall-it feels so good when you stop! Hugs!

      • I’ve had many addicts in my life. After attending many NarAnon meetings, in my opinion, it’s different when it’s a spouse. There’s always hope for a child or sibling to change, but with a spouse they can take you down with them, it’s the lack of partnership, the DOC coming first and the devastating financial aspect.

    • Yes, if I didn’t pick me dance well enough, I was blamed for not making him happy enough. Then, I was blamed for pick me dancing instead of setting boundaries. It’s good when we wake up from taking responsibility for BS we can’t control but we’re often blamed no matter what we do.

  • Looks like he thinks cheating is just like slipping on a banana peel Like being struck by lightning. Like missing a step and falling down the stairs.

    Permanently penalized for a pratfall! No fair!!!

    Nothing says “I love you” like lying and maintaining a secret sexual double life, right?

    (I knew these people don’t have a clue what love is)

    Surely the total random arbitrary happenstance accident of cheating did not cause her to leave. It was Evil Chump Nation, the Great and Powerful!

    Ironically this letter neatly encapsulates the disordered thinking of the cheater, shows exactly NOTHING has changed, and proves his wife’s decision to be the wise one.

    • Yup! I’m pretty much convinced at this point that none of them change. It’s hard wired into their personalities to lie, blame shift, betray and abuse. I fell hook, line and sinker for the RIC at first. My STBX had me convinced that he would be touring the country giving talks about how he’s changed and that change was possible for all cheaters. He may not be fucking strange anymore but he’s still extremely abusive. THAT didn’t change at all. As my therapist says “The behavior is still there. It just looks different now”.

    • And cheating is often just a spark that leads to the end. There were probably deep, destructive habits even before that, including deception and blame-shifting.

      My ex had some weird theories about why I refused reconciliation, but the last fifteen years together and then how he left killed it for me. I had gut feelings and all but remained somewhat in the dark until his attorney blabbed to mine. Yuck.

    • “Ironically this letter neatly encapsulates the disordered thinking of the cheater, shows exactly NOTHING has changed, and proves his wife’s decision to be the wise one.”

      Haha. So true! And you’re right that he cannot see the irony. FWs as a group are incapable of this. It would require some degree of self-awareness. #confirmation

      He writes, “Some of us actually love our wives.” Funny way of showing it, dude.
      As Velvet Hammer reminded us yesterday, “Love is a verb.”

      And can I just say that calling chumps “ladies” makes me so😡. Male chumps must feel oddly insulted as well.

  • This dude is more than just an asshole…he’s a self absorbed asshole. I will say redemption is possible but it comes with taking responsibility and ownership of culpability. You, dickhead you, fucked up your wife’s construct of what she believed was her ever after, you trounced the security that your children deserved to have in their lives and yet you call it “a mistake ” ?! FUCK NO,it wasn’t a mistake, you made an effort to get your pecker wet in some scank well with thinking of consequences. You still haven’t acknowledged your actions and are hard pressed to paint a narrative of victimhood. You say things were going well but the bitter babes of Chump Lady caused your wife to back off this supposed going greatness, I’m a chumped guy and even though I got my chump card 30+years ago it still haunts me. I’ve been in therapy for most of that time and you want kudos for a few weeks? Your wife sees the progress but can’t establish the mind movies that plague her sleep and the horror show of wondering how your (conscience act) “mistake ” is going to affect the lives the social structure of her precious children. It’s not the advice here it’s uour shit attitude, it’s your entitlement, it’s your forever wounding an innocent. It’s your being a fucking asshole. Your well being is mone of my care or business but my dime store advice to you is, get that stick out of your ass and think about those people you love the most. Give your wife space, answer her questions , work out spend more time with your kids , live under a fucking bridge if you must. For the sake of my kids at the time of my getting chumped I lived in my car to be able to maintain their lifestyle during the tumultuous time their mother created. Get off the “me” sauce and improve without wanting a trophy. God bless this site and all who suffer at the hand of the self-centered and boundrieless.

    • Thanks for this NYN. I imagined you in Traitor Ex’s face while I was reading this. In fact, because I have to see him on occasion, I will save this to read and shore me up before that minimal contact I have to have. He is a world class blame-shifter and I’ll use any antidote I can get my hands on.

    • Wow, awesome post. After all the wisdom summed up here I might suggest a moniker change from New York Nutbag to King Solomon of NY.

      • Thank you Fern….no kings or dominions here…just broken and fed up. But never will I nor should anyone here capitulate and suffer at tge hands and actions of anyone. I’d rather be beaten to death than beaten into submission.
        A blessed 2023 to you and all here

        • “I’d rather be beaten to death than beaten into submission”
          Brilliant – using that to get me through 2023!

  • I would bet large sums of money that this dude would still be gaslighting his wife appliance and “multiple” kids about his singular, ongoing mistake, had he not been caught red-handed.

    Mine still won’t admit cheating (no official current DDay) and is super busy with selfpity and telling all our mutual friends that I’m crazy. I didn’t wait for proof before I filed (I knew and he is skilled at hiding proof), and he is playing that to his advantage with friends and financial aspects of the settlement. In one breath, he will say he could have been a better husband (like his only fault was lack of affection, not locking himself in his office for 3-4 hours every night at bedtime and many, many other cheater behaviors). But then he also likes to say I left him suddenly for “no legitimate reason.” Righto, fucker.

    • My ex only finally admitted the affair under threat of perjury (divorce discovery), four+ years after it started, and then STILL lied about when it began. I knew better, and found proof later that it was definitely going on while we were still living together, not that it started after we split (and, LOL, in my at-fault state it doesn’t matter – it’s still legally adultery; FW thought that if he put that start after I moved out, it wouldn’t count). And the emotional affair certainly started long before we split. I saw it, but was called crazy for pointing out the disturbing things I was seeing with this “friend” and FW. He told me I was paranoid, jealous, reading too much into things, controlling, you name it. But I wasn’t crazy, I was right. EVERY suspicion I’d had, every occassion something seemed “off”, every terrible lie he fed me, everything turned out to be EXACTLY what I thought it was at the time. It was very vindicating.

      I got the “I could have been a better husband” speech too, during a hoover, but I wasn’t buying it by that point. He refused to address/apologize for the affair and his abuse, so I wasn’t interested in his apologies for “not being there” for me when I was sick, as if that even came close to the rest of it.

    • Triggered! He’d lock himself into his home office and ignore me. That alone was valid cause for complaint. But he wasn’t in there just going through his tax files and playing online bingo. He was actively participating in online video sex, watching porn, and trying to hook up with as many different women as he could.

      • My story too. Except mine was getting up at 4:00 am to hide his affair was while I slept,hiding his phone, sitting in the car outside when he arrived home. So flat and numb he had to get hammered when we were together bc he could not GeT his fix online. Then he would say mean shit and next morning remember nothing. Who knows what else he was doing. What I could see online was the G rated version and that was disgusting enough.

    • I’m crazy too. He told his relatives and his attorney, so that made it accurate, you know. He played up how unstable I was. I wasn’t happy with how aggressively his attorney played it at first, but mine assured me the attorney would back off and become reasonable when he figured out the dynamics. They had been going against each other for 30+ years, and mine assured me that he knew all that attorney’s games but liked him. They would go out for a beer after court and toast each other.

      Yes, his attorney figured it out and completely turned on his client, violating various ethics rules. By then, mine had announced his retirement, and we guessed his attorney felt safe because the bar rarely calls upon opposing counsel if they are retired in an ethics question. We settled, and the judge signed the day before my attorney retired, closed the firm, and gave up the law entirely. He told the young associate who took my case to his new firm to watch for a potential appeal, but the deadline had passed. The young associate figured out how to work with my ex’s attorney and told me he truly was a reasonable attorney despite all the bluster. Sadly, my ex’s attorney died of COVID, but I often think of him. Not a bad guy in the end.

  • I love how he’s ordering me around. Telling me how to run my blog. And the virtual finger wagging — Listen!!!

    John, “ladies” just love being scolded and patronized. Enjoy the air mattress.

    • And if he thinks he gets to order you around and tell you how to run your blog, we can all imagine the kind of husband he was, ASIDE from the cheating!
      His STBXW could have been wanting out for years.

    • In his manic, blinded-by-outrage skim of the blog, dear John didn’t seem to notice the number of posts and queries by male chumps. Also funny is his stereotype of intractable cheaters– that none ever lovebomb and John is the first in history to opt for this singular strategy! Meanwhile the very behavior he believes gives him unicorn status is actually what squarely defines him as an abuser.
      All it proves is that John’s supposed introspection hasn’t even gotten to the 101 level of learning about the “cycle of abuse” which is so prevalent on the web that it would take willful blindness to miss it.

      • The massive twat that wrote this letter is the spitting image of my ex in every way. Entitled fake-good-guy indignant whining man baby.

        “But but but but…I did all the things on the list, I went to marriage counseling and listened to my wife cry and only sighed in dismissive frustration half as much as I wanted to! Where are the pick-me-dancing prize kibbles I was promised? Must be the fault of her therapist, or her friend, or the Internet, because surely she would never reject ME! I’ve only ever made one mistake!”

        One really telling thing he said which revealed his true character (or lack thereof) was when he told me a couple months into wreckonsillyation, “You can’t punish me forever!” What the what? He had barely suffered consequences, let alone punishment – he had NO idea how much I was holding back and taking the high road. Yet he saw it as some undeserved punishment that I was unfairly inflicting on him, denying him something he was owed (my capitulation/obedience/the rest of my life?)

        He wasn’t the worst of the CN FW Hall of Shame by far, but holy entitlement. I didn’t divorce him because he had sex with someone, I divorced him because of this crazy high-horse John-type bullshit. It’s like they have zero capacity for self reflection, let alone empathy.

  • I wonder how many chumps make the mistake of showing the cheater this blog thinking they’ll come to their senses. I’m guessing a lot. This letter is a useful reminder that “getting your ducks in a row” is a step toward safety and independence, not a manipulative threat.

    • Never show them CL. Cheaters will never get it. I wouldn’t let klootzak into my therapy or any place I would seek support. FWs are the last to offer support and the last you should seek it from. No contact or gray rock all the way. I tend to think showing him CL would be letting him into my head. Now, why would I do that? It’s like inviting yourself to be played further.

  • It’s obvious he doesn’t love his wife at all because he’s so out of his mind offended that anyone would think of supporting her best interests rather than helping him dupe and abuse her. She’s not even human to him. He can’t even see her as a person with thoughts and opinions of her own. That’s why he needs someone else to open her eyes for him. He can’t even begin to see her as a person.

    I also love how his wording makes it sound like the great epiphany he had about why he stuck his dick in skanks and exposed his wife to the risk of disease or crazy bunny boiler is because he just loves his wife and kids so much. “I love you guys so much I just have to fuck strange!”

    I’m so glad she left him. There’s no hope there.

  • mmmmm, delicious snark! Imagine telling on yourself the way John has here… amazing look into the mind of an entitled cheater.

  • Thanks you CL for reinforcing the fact that the victims of cheating DON’T have to get over it ! It drives manipulative aholes crazy when someone offers a lifeline to their victims.

  • When you Cheat on your wife you have declared that you have no empathy and respect for her . This is NOT love. It is abuse. She interpreted your actions appropriately and it was a deal breaker for her. She has agency apart from you and chose to demote you from asset to liability in her life.

    As for contrition and willingness to fly right, reinvest in the marriage, change your wayward ways, and re establish trust with your wife – that’s on her terms, not yours. It can take a decade or more to do so, yet the stain of your untrustworthiness will remain, regardless. There is no obligation that a Chump owes you reconciliation after cheating. Your wife chose not to for good reasons that protect her heart – from you. She’s not interested in policing your life forward, her marriage, or anything else that fell before her feet in shattered pieces – because of you.

    Discovering and living a life of actions based on character, conscience, and courage might help YOU become a man of empathy, respect and love for others. It doesn’t happen overnight or in months…it takes years of assimilation and application. Only when you have become the man worthy of her trust by consistent words and deeds should you consider introducing that newfound ‘Love” to her. That doesn’t mean she’ll respond to you. It means you did what you needed to do because YOU desire to be a better man. Life is a process of learning, growing and becoming our personal best. It’s time for YOU to grow up.

    At this stage you have no leg to stand on insisting your wife owes you reconciliation. NONE. Show her some respect and empathy by leaving her alone as she asked.

  • John,

    You’ve done your “f*cking around” – which I assume that you enjoyed – and now you are deep into “finding out” ….. which it sounds like you are not liking quite so much. Tough sh*t; it’s called consequences.

    PS – no-one likes a whiny assh*le, so shut up while you are at it.

    LFTT

    • Amen… but let him keep whining. Like Napoleon put it, never interfere with the enemy while he’s making a mistake. It’s in the whiny, bleating stage that these types inadvertently scare away potential future targets.

      • HellofaChump, this exactly. And in this whiny moment that the Chump really sees the extent of entitlement he/she is dealing with, loses all respect, and gets tf out.

  • Dear Chump Lady, it must be super fun to turn up the snark on previous articles #snarkcool. Snark is such a powerful tool in overcoming the mindf**k. Thank you for leading by example. Happy New Year to you and Chump Nation!

  • The headline, You Encouraged My Wife To Leave, still has my jaw on the floor. No John, YOUR behavior encouraged your wife to leave, and then you tried to mindfuck her into staying in a burning house.

    The people here care more about his wife than he does, and we don’t even know her.

    But we know him, because he is straight out of the Cheater Playbook, nothing original about him at all, playing totally to type. I loved reading The Script by Elizabeth Landers. Written about men who cheat, it applies to cheaters of any gender. Read and adjust the pronouns to fit your situation. The similarities are truly mind blowing.

    Traitor Ex complained to Dr. Kickass CoParent that he felt like he was “being cut out.” After I reminded him that he left, she told him he was getting a taste of his own medicine.

    That comment alone was worth the money spent on her services.

  • Aww poor dude! 😂😆
    He fucked around.
    He found out.
    #chumpnation #suckstobehim #notmypig #notmyfarm #sadsausage

  • Who knew we Chumps held such powers?!

    Not only can we make FWs cheat on us, we can persuade a free thinking individual to leave their FW

    There isn’t a hint of remorse in this self serving letter. He’s only worried about himself and his financial situation

    They always feel hard done by and ‘robbed’

    • John is used to manipulating people. Like many cheaters, he seems to think that if you flip certain switches and press the right buttons that you can make another human being respond like a programmed computer. Well, damn it, he went to marriage counseling! She was supposed to forget all about it!

      I remember klootzak saying to me after meeting my mother, “I always do well with the parents.” Like he had them played. It’s all a routine. They freak out when other don’t do what they want/expect them to. How dare other people have agency?

  • I’m guessing not only was he a cheater but just a total asshole in general. His wife did the “would my life be better or worse” without him and she chose to move on. Good for the wife.

  • My ex tried to say the same thing. When he saw the book LACGAL I was reading and picked it up he told me she(CL) is so offensive. What an ass. He always blamed everyone else for everything. Never looked in the mirror and never will. I waited six months to see a change and continued to find Viagra in his car console. What a dickhead. I still remember the day (five+ years ago) I told him I was done and leaving. He said “What!! You cannot forgive me?” Absolutely not. Living my best life now with a wonderful man.

    • Yeah….I found an empty bottle of viagra in his truck which initiated DDay. He told me he used it to beat off. 😂 Loser! Hugs!

      • Thrive, FW told me he used the condoms I found in his briefcase to beat off. I asked him if he waited to get to his office or if he did it while stuck in traffic. Loser is right! As if we believe these idiots! He later admitted he had them to use when he banged whores in Asian massage parlors. Gross!

        • “I asked him if he waited to get to his office or if he did it while stuck in traffic”

          🤣👏🤣 Love it.xx

  • “John” is a misogynist who has big, big issues with women who aren’t appliances. Note how he shifts from being angry at CL to lecturing “ladies” (as if there are no male chumps here!) He’s furious at his wife because she refused to follow his script – how dare a woman refuse to give him take backsies?

  • What an entitled fucker.

    CL, you reminded me that I have agency. I acted. I left, divorced, built a new life with a partner who respects me. XH who? No longer my monkey or my circus. Thank God!

  • I’m left wondering what medication he is referring to which supposedly treats chronic entitled assholery. Ricin? Cyanide?

    John, if you’re still lurking around, you’re a selfish, whiny little penis. Whoever here is John’s ex, I imagine this outrageously clueless complaint letter was all the proof you needed that you had nothing to work with and you did right.

  • More proof that these FWs do not care to know or see there are consequences to abusing others that actually effect them.
    But don’t we all understand, they didn’t MEAN to destroy their families.
    Why can’t anyone feel sorry for them and just give them another chance to get it right?
    It’s not the part of him fooling around with skanks, endangering the physical and mental health of his wife and destroying the critical need for safety and trust of his “ multiple” children by asking them to pay for the consequences of his tragically poor decisions that’s the problem here people. He loves his family! (I bet he even has a sad face on right now to prove it.)
    The problem is that party pooper Chump Lady, just putting warped ideas in his manipulated wife’s little head to make her believe she actually MATTERS in this world, deserving a better life than being strapped to a lying liar who lies.
    That’s the real issue here!
    How could you do such a thing, CL?!? Shining the light of day under his big old rock and just screwing up the whole ‘ have your cake and eat it too’ carefully calculated plan he’d been scheming on for so long.
    Damn! He almost got away with it too, if you hadn’t contaminated his wife with all that truth nonsense and opened her eyes to see what kind of game is being played on her.
    He could have done a mere three months of therapy and then resumed his reign of terror on all the ppl that loved and believed in him again. No fair!!
    I wonder why Dante’s lowest, darkest, blackest and farthest from heaven 9th circle of hell is allotted to those who betray their loved ones? Hmmmmm? 🤷‍♀️
    Because it firmly belongs there! Along with this father of “multiple” kids, just too numerous and annoying to name or even count them all up. (Who has time for that?!)
    It’s not an “ oops, my bad” moment that causes a cheater to burn down their houses.
    They want so desperately to be forgiven, so they can just do it all over again.
    No, thank God his wife discovered CL, allowing her to understand the hard to imagine entitlement of this ‘sorry, not sorry’ FW.
    Let Dante have him and his revolving door of skanks.
    Felt satisfying to read your response CL. Bravo on the delivery!
    I’m so very happy to belong to a club that no longer suffers such fools in our lives, it feels healing and empowering!
    Happy New Year all you amazing chump warriors out there, whose generosity of hard won wisdom and snark has been such a gift to receive. Many blessings to you all! 🎉🥳🎊

  • I noticed Mr Sad Sausage didn’t include a lot of details about his cheating escapades. Zero details except “poor me, poor me”.

    • I think a detail leaked out sideways when he awkwardly referred to “multiple” children. In tossing his word salad, the confessional term (“multiple affairs”) ended up in the wrong sentence.

  • There are so many betrayed spouses on some infidelity-themed subreddits who remained in their relationships and, 10-15 years later, are still struggling to trust their wayward partners. That is no way to live. What a waste.

  • Oh CHUMP LADY!! I am out walking and reading and I laughed till tears ran. My STBXH did the second verse…he went to a very ” special counselor ” for his problem( laying other woman at work and blaming them for ” raping him” all against his will” because he said NO two times before his zipper was down…I’m an empty patient room…and she turned him into HR!! OK so he said No..not his fault. So the counselor did 4 sessions and he was cured..so now IT WAS MY TURN to get straightened out and he was WILLING to let me have his spot in counseling because this specialist could not talk to both people in the couple! Against his policy! What???? So my STBXH thinks he is cured. My lawyer will help him swallow the medicine of consequences for cured people who do coworkers who complain later. I could have warned this howorker of 32 years was not worth the HR write up!!. I feel sorry for her!!!! Thank you for your UBT…I are two boxes of lepkuchen from Aldis to celebrate your great work!

  • The Cheaters just abhor the consequences of cheating.
    FW repeated to me what his patient (family law attorney) said to him -“you’ll never recover financially if you divorce at your age”.
    FW says to me “I don’t want to lose 1/2 of everything I’ve worked for all my life for a piece of ass”. What a thing to say to your WIFE, plus it was what WE worked for
    Poor FW, it was more than 1/2…

  • dear john,

    your wife took a long, hard look at you and decided you’re not worth it. it’s because you don’t have the emotional capacity to deal with grown-up problems and grown-up relationships. that’s about it. she’s ready to move on and meet someone who has emotional capacity.

    get over it.

    XX

  • “Whether it be alcohol, drugs, abuse or whatever” He lumped cheating in “whatever”. Haha ….He can’t even bring himself to say it. WOW. And his wife is supposed to trust him?!?? What a great decision on her part to play covert until she had her ducks lined up.

  • Yep ! My ex was incensed when I didn’t do as he expected/wanted .
    When I refused to get over his cheating and ‘try’ again. He really did believe he was that special.

  • Had to stop and make myself a hot drink before savouring that one
    “I lost my way” – why do they all say that – so embarrassing

  • Oh no, you took your wife on good faith that she would entertain forgiving your ass after you used her own working in good faith against her and went on a pussy hunt? Oh poor you.

  • I have to say, all I got from your website (apart from insight, education, knowledge, power and a great many laughs) was the question “Is this relationship acceptable to me?” Best Question EVER! Maybe this cheater’s wife finally asked and answered this question. Good on her!

  • He ended his own marriage when he cheated. He would never, ever have forgiven his wife if she was the one who fucked another man.

    • Mia, 💯. My FW was exactly, word for word, using the same script as John. After D-Day he actually tried to accuse me of cheating with a random grad school classmate, then said he didn’t think he could get over it if I cheated. I still can’t think what in his pea brain would make him say that out loud, then expect me to get over his cheating, except that maybe it was a threat not to have a revenge affair? I really can’t figure this out except in the context of what someone said earlier, they don’t consider the Chump as an independent person, just an accessory to themselves. Terrifying.

  • after a decade of serial cheating, 2nd D-day, (I forgave the 1st, he swore it would be the last), he actually said, “I didn’t think I’d get caught and if I did, I’d just tell her something.” Hello, I’m her and out the door. Now, 2 years later, he is still so sad cause he is hurting, too, is there any way I could come back? Hell no!

  • Wow, he lost his way? Losing your way means you turned left instead of right. This FW lost his way and fell into someone’s vagina. Of course the chump needs to believe that it was all an accident rather than decisions to cheat and lies to try to cover it up and more lies. He is not special, he is just an average Cheater. Nothing special there.
    Now that he is realizing consequences, he is just sad and needs someone to blame because his cheating and betrayal could not have caused his wife to leave. Nope, it was these horrible, bitter people in a thing called Chump Nation that forced her to leave him.
    Well, way to go CL and CN. This group helped pull another poor chump out of the mind fuck blender and put her on the path to a better life without a lying cheater. I hope she is doing well and got a great settlement and isNC or at least rocking grey rock.

  • Late to the party but: “Maybe you should focus a little more at actually responding and helping people a little more.”

    He’s people. His wife isn’t people. Helping her doesn’t count, because she’s not him.

    Just saying. That there sorta tells it all.

    • Bingo.

      Just commented something similar about my story above, without connecting it to this line of the letter. Good catch! John telling on himself again.

    • “He’s people. His wife isn’t people. Helping her doesn’t count, because she’s not him.”

      Well spotted.

  • His ex-wife gave a pretty good blue print for how to mediate / do counseling with a FW. Tell them what they want to hear and then leave their ass. Love it! She’s my hero.

  • Ah, yes.

    To love somebody, but not enough to accept consequences of your own actions.

    Did anybody else sprain their eyeballs while reading that letter?

  • Unrelated to the article but wanted to mention the aggressive amount of ads your site has for Russian lady dating sites… It’s actually hilarious, probably all the jilted ex husbands and boyfriends visiting chimp lady that’s responsible for this garbage

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