The Other Woman Is a Therapist

ANC,

Do not judge your self worth based upon what FWs and their Flying Monkeys/Affair Partners say about you to others and, furthermore, be very aware that anyone who knows you and cares for you will see their BS for what it is.

And I say that as someone whose Ex described him to all and sundry as “An arrogant and institutionalised weirdo, with no friends, no social skills and a drink problem …. because he [LFTT] doesn’t drink.” Funny old thing, but the people who matter to me know that this is my Ex projecting and no more.

You are doing much better than you realise!

LFTT

I know a therapist who says that they should never diagnose, in any way, someone they are not treating.

Water, and idiots, seek their own level. The fact that she is in your business says much more about her than you. If he is out in the neighborhood spreading trash about you kick him out and let him find another neighborhood…..or he can move in with her. That is when you get some popcorn, a recliner, and watch. Two screwed up people living together. It sounds delightful.

ANC, i think most people recognize that when a person is calling their X-wife “crazy” it’s wildly misogynistic. an old move from the playbook, a stereotypical move from the playbook. the old soft-shoe.

you’re doing great. yes, your narc X is using your mental health challenges as ammunition against you. that’s what narc’s do–gather info to use as ammunition at a later date. you just gather all the financial info you need to file for your divorce and let your lawyer manage it.

there’s no rush to re-partner–you’ve got a lot to do right now, principally taking good care of yourself.

Young lady, you appear to have more self-awareness, personal drive, and motivation than most folks double your age!
You started out having a rough time with your own issues while tethered to a mate with issues of his own. That worked…until it didn’t.

Since then you’ve grown, changed and become a better person by leaps and bounds. One of the greatest risks we take when we couple with another is that the two don’t grow in sync, nor at the same rate, or even at all. You’ve jumped many a high hurdle and have lots to look forward to. Chalk this relationship up to ‘growing pains’, let it go, and set aside dreaming time for just you before you put yourself back out on the market. Best wishes; great work!!

Oh, I so get this one. This was the hardest part for me to overcome. Like ok, he’s garbage, I get that, I accept it. But all these other people who joined in?! Why?! Why would anybody be that evil for no real benefit to themselves?!

Because they are really that evil. That’s all you have to accept. This woman who was in your home, pretended to be a friend by cat sitting for you, etc. She was fucking your husband and the reason she came around you was because knowing she was hurting someone made her get off harder during it. That’s really all it is. They’re just really that evil.

I can understand why a thief steals, they’re getting the thing they are stealing. I can logically understand that. I don’t condone it but I can get it. But these women? “Oh, I don’t really want him and the sex is bad but I’m going to fuck him and then I’m going to be around his wife and tell people she’s a nutcase because somehow that makes me superior to her!” That’s how they think. I can’t logically understand how debasing themselves and forcing another women to be exposed to their vaginal fluids without that woman’s consent makes them superior. To me, they’re just dirty rapist animals smearing their filth around to try to claim territory they don’t even want.

You don’t have to understand it though, you just have to accept it as reality. If anyone is mentally ill past the point of help, it’s this therapist. I feel sorry for her clients. Once you accept how screwed up and pathetic she is, it gets easier to deal with.

ANC, You are amazing. They suck.

Stay no contact with those freaks and their apologists. Get that divorce- notice the thoughts that you are having that don’t serve you. Decide that you are worthy.

Ugh, what terrible circumstances. And I feel so terrible that you are dealing with this from all sides. First, I want to highlight that while your NPD ex is spinning this yarn, don’t think that everyone believes him. My exFW was a charming liar as well. I thought he had successfully painted me as a terrible human. After our divorce was finalized, there was a surprising line of people who wanted to tell me they knew he was a FW and wondered why it took me so long to divorce! You may not get the line of people, but trust me, he isn’t fooling as many people as he (or you) believe.
Also, there are a LOT of crazy therapists out there. I know a few. Some that have slept with clients, engaged in DV, or are diagnosed as NPB or BPD themselves. It makes them more effective manipulators.

You will get through this a better person, sounds like you’re putting in the work. You will find someone who values, I know it’s a hit to confidence and self esteem.

No contact works well, I only maintain contact if it involves my children. I have had to set firm boundaries, she didn’t listen for awhile, but then I started to tell her some truths she didn’t want to hear, it finally sank in. Just sit back and enjoy the fireworks, they will come. They like drama, my goal is to protect my kids and myself when they go off.

It’s refreshing to know my ex does not know a damn thing about my life anymore. She doesn’t have many friends and she will start to chat with me about her life, and I really don’t care. Sad.

Dear ANC,

I got involved with this guy’s twin in college. I can’t call it dating, because we never dated – it was just years of hot/cold mind games and “You’re fabulous, I want you … oops, you’re batshit crazy, ghosting you now lol … oh hey, I’m back! What’d I miss?? BTW, I have more women to triangulate you against.” Think Mr. Big on steroids.

Listen, there are a ton of garbage therapists in the world, with minimal certification and no social intelligence. You’d be shocked how varied the training is. I had to comb through a lot of therapists before I found a good one. I met many who had good intentions but were mediocre, and too many who desperately needed therapy themselves.

So let’s just say I am utterly unsurprised this idiot is a therapist.

Stop listening to anything she says. She doesn’t know you, she was never YOUR therapist, she’s unqualified to diagnose you with anything. She’s an enabler addicted to the drama triangle with your abuser.

What’s she going to do? Gossip to your neighbors about how crazy you are? Unfortunately, yes, it’s what narcissists do. Fortunately, most people see through it and will recognize she’s the problem.

Hang in there.

Having an affair with a client violates professional standards and is cause to lose a license. Anyone who has a complaint can file a grievance. Look up, online, your state name and “professional licenses.” You should be able to find the place to contact, whether it’s your state’s Board of Licenses for that professional category, that specific profession’s accreditation body, or both.

You can also search any licensed professional and see if there have been any disciplinary actions or formal grievances.

For anyone divorcing, I would not file e a complaint until you consult with your attorney, who may recommend that you wait until your divorce is final.

The therapist gives him a kind of credibility he wouldn’t have otherwise. Ex-dickhead is also with a “therapist”- and it drives me crazy HA! Although after several years- she no longer spends Christmas with him and I think she’d like to dump him. He never wanted anyone to “get in his head” so I am pretty sure this is all part of his pretend malarky. Especially when he ended up on the psyche ward twice, after I confronted him with evidence of his double life. She can unwind that skein. Not my role anymore. Rock on with your great after-life!

Oh, sweetheart. I was married for 20 years; last 3 years of the marriage were so stressful and the sporadic discard so profound (I didn’t know he was rampantly cheating), that I developed a Betta fish hoarding problem. As my sister said, “you take care of those Bettas the way you want to be taken care of” (which made me cry with relief that someone understood). But…nothing says crazy like 60 individual tanks of betta fish in your upstairs. Trust me, my actual “crazy” was on full display.

My X used it to his advantage–our friends knew about my fish-rescue (ok, hoarding), so he could explain why we “grew apart” (because Tempest was cray-cray). Never mind that he had started cheating 8 years prior with a graduate student in a torrid affair everyone knew about (but me), that he had been screwing other students and his online sex partners on lunch hours for the 8 years since gradwhore, and had a new GF the last year of the marriage that led to the most extreme maltreatment of all, leading me (normally a badass) to self-harm. I threw him out when I found the sexual harassment hearing notes about the affair with gradwhore 8 years prior, and learned about his other proclivities post-divorce (hello, private investigator).

But, XHB (Hannibal Lecher) had visible evidence he could point to of “crazy”–fishtanks on every visible surface will do that to you. You know who believed that was the basis for his cheating? Other cheaters. Good litmus test for who to keep in your life–those who don’t buy the buy the line that ActuallyNotCrazy brought on her own marital demise–keep those people. Fuck the rest of them.

In our small university town, we have two hospitals. About 15 years ago, there was a very quiet scandal because the town psychiatrist had his wife in one hospital giving birth to his child and his mistress in the other hospital doing the very same thing. Psychiatrists and therapists are not moral authorities. Scum, however, is always scum.

I love “reciting Hamilton lyrics”!!!!

Except I have one question…..Hamilton songs last more than a quick minute, right? Three Blind Mice might have been a better fit in the case of my ex FW.

Fly! You are so young and you figured it out!!!! No more FWs for you! No more wasted years trying to please a cranky, pouty, demanding manchild who could care less about what makes you happy.

Fly little one! I’d bake you a cake to celebrate if I were close by!

Part 2 of comment. Trying to mask URLs to avoid moderation delays didn’t work so this might show up a while after my first post (which is likely repeated. Oops).

It’s clear by his arguments for greater enforcement and prison sentencing that Dutton didn’t fall into the typical trap of “identifying” with his study subjects which is probably why his work is so ground-breaking and indirectly supports other ground-breaking insights in victimology that can correct antiquated, victim-blaming assumptions and be, by extension, healing for survivors. Some highlights from Dutton’s work and the important concepts that, in my humble opinion, I believe it supports in turn (forgive the unclear paragraph breaks as I try to organize this):

— Dutton observes that most batterers operate on a “beat-by-need” basis, generally opting for less athletic, less legally risky and more psychological, financial and emotional means of coercing and controlling victims and reserving the most intense abuse for victims who resist. It’s such a simple-sounding observation but I think it seeds a theoretical revolution in victimology. In other words, batterers arguably reserve the greatest abuse for victims with the highest self esteem and greater resources to escape and thrive. This flies in the face of old, debunked victim-blaming clinical theories which assume that the more beaten down a victim is by abuse, the more effed up they had been prior to abuse while, in reality, it may be the *exactly opposite case.* So Dutton’s basic clinical observation goes a long way towards substantiating DV expert Lenore Walker’s argument that– contrary to the old assumption that victims all suffered from preexisting “psychological deficiency”– most DV survivors had higher than average pre-abuse self esteem (backed up by the fact that more had careers prior to abuse than average). If anything, this may argue that abusers vary in taste in prey with some preferring to take down “big game” and collect tiger skin trophies rather than bunny foot key chains. It also substantiates that, while nothing can really be automatically assumed about the psychology or background of victim in any abuse situation, a great deal can be assumed about abusers according to their methods.
Dutton’s observation also suggests that some batterers– if they find a handy psychological lever in their victims by identifying a vulnerability or something the victim is terrified of losing– may never have to take their hands out of their pockets in order to completely terrorize and paralyze their prey. A victim’s, say, great passion for their work or studies, passionate sociability or great love of their children can be weaponized against them, turning what are arguably sources of strength into a liabilities. If the abuser identifies a vulnerability– some sensitive point the victim would prefer to keep private (which applies to… nearly everyone on earth)– that doesn’t necessarily indicate that the victim was especially weak or “broken” if the abuser is also targeting social and financial resources, strengths, hopes and passions. In political repression, Nabokov dubs this kind of tactic “the lever of love” (that’s another somewhat related book recommendation: Nabokov’s “Bend Sinister”).
Personally I wonder whether some abusers prefer tigers but “slightly limping” tigers going through some passing stage of hardship that makes them a little easier to take down while still providing a brag-worthy trophy. Whatever is the case, the success of an abuser’s tactics– again– says little about the victim and everything about the abuser because abusers will apparently do whatever it takes (abuse/beat-by-need) to this end.  

— Another of Dutton’s deceptively simple but explosive observations is that many batterers engage in something called “masked dependency.” I don’t have The Batterer in front of me but I think it’s from that book if not from another of Dutton’s publications. From what I understand, “masked dependency” is when an abuser– due to whatever demented FOO issues they internalized as they transitioned from “former child victim” to “adult abuser”– harbors overwhelming shame about their own emotional vulnerability and especially their pathological, infantile emotional dependency on partners/victims. Consequently this type of abuser will attempt to conceal this dependency from onlookers, partners and even themselves and even go to great lengths to create the opposite (“You ain’t the boss of me/who needs you”) impression. While this type is apparently less prone to open misogyny, might give credible lip service to desiring “healthy” relationships and may appear less overtly jealous than other abusers, Dutton also argues at one point that the “masked dependency” type can be statistically more lethal. I suppose this relates to the “hungry dogs in the basement” concept that denied emotions are all the more incendiary. I think it also relates to Dutton’s concept that many batterers have quasi-split personalities (more on that later) that can explain how they first appear especially trustworthy to victims and bystanders and why their recall for their own destructive behaviors tends to be especially fuzzy.
One thing that Dutton doesn’t discuss much in his work is something that I believe relates to masked dependency: that virtually all batterers cheat. Fortunately current DV researchers are starting to delve into that association which I always thought was under-reported and under-focused on.  Again, close the gaps in the URL for a link to a paper on it: ht tps://w ww.joplinlawyers.co m.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/FINAL-COPY-Infidelity-as-a-Consideration-in-Domestic-Abuse-and-Coercive-Control.pdf
If you think about it, cheating is the ultimate way of masking infantile dependency by saying “Who needs ya, bitch” while simultaneously *fostering* dependency in the victim because the best way to mask one’s own weakness and neediness is to induce it in a partner by displacing one’s own sexual insecurity/dependency. Cheating could also be seen as an attempt by an abuser to “dilute” their dependency on primary partners by spreading the dependency out among more than one partner. Furthermore, cheating is a form of punishment of the victim (for “making” the abuser feel so dependent on them. See how that works? Abusers can’t own their self-generated demented behavior and must displace fault for it onto victims). And– at least according to my own personal theory– the sexual element of cheating lends to the concept of battering as a form of protracted rape. The abuser can thereby triangulate sexual control, punishment, the robbing of consent and violation by drawing in a “bully gang” who willingly participate in the act and thereby “greenlight” it, justify it as warranted and “deserved” and support it. In turn, the latter sort of controversially casts witting affair partners as technical “proxy rapists”– but that’s an argument for another day (anyone who’s curious can Google “mate poacher/dark triad/psychopathy” or “hybristophilia” for starters).

— Abusers’ typical campaigns to gather support by proxies and collaborators (affair partners and “flying monkeys”) in aggression lend to the next explosive insight by Dutton– that batterers engage in something called “neutralization” (sometimes referred to as “reduction in self punishment”) in order to de-stigmatize their destructive behavior and recast it as justifiable. The following paper on serial killers and “neutralization” explains the process and the potential motives for the pattern of thinking better than I could (take out gaps in URL and click “download” for a free read): ht tps://w ww.mdpi.com/2075-4698/9/2/46

— As far as Dutton’s description of abusers with quasi-split personalities, I think it can explain why many abusers are so diabolically effective at conning victims and bystanders, at least at first. Again, I can’t remember whether this concept was introduced in The Batterer or another of Dutton’s publications but I’m pretty sure that there’s reference to it in The Batterer. Dutton describes many batterers as “compartmentalized” which should be familiar to anyone who’s read pop-psych descriptions of narcissism. But it’s compartmentalization on a whole other level. For instance, Dutton describes abusers as often having an alacrity or attraction to reading or viewing materials from the “victim’s perspective.” As I understand it, because abusers were once victims in their own rights due to traumatic childhood events, among the different faces and personae they trot out in their attempts to get what they want from others is the former “victim self.” And that “victim self” will initially appear 100% credible and organic to the extent that most abusers genuinely were victims at some point in their lives before they transitioned into abusers. Their empathy for victimization appears to have depth and real foundations. But like the light from a star reaching earth millions of years after the star already died, this appearance of empathy for victims is an illusion. Abusers might weep buckets over lost puppies in the pound but only because they “see themselves” in misfortune but that view of themselves as perpetual victims is one of the things that makes abusers so dangerous because part of “neutralization’ mentioned above is when abusers attempt to portray themselves as victims of their own victims.
Again, Dutton’s concept goes a long way towards letting victims off the hook for getting hoodwinked– meaning that it may not be due to any special flaw in victims’ perceptions or character because it appears that abusers show themselves to be better at appearing to have empathy and being “safe” than average. Along the same lines, Dutton argues that batterers tend to channel far more psychic energy into “image management” than average. In other words, even an abuser of low to average intelligence is going to be objectively better at appearing innocent, mirroring and conning than others.

As a bonus, all of the above is a bane to lousy victim blaming therapists, bystanders and proxies. As far as using ED as a rationale to control, betray and gaslight someone, that would mean it’s open season on 75% of American women and 25% of men. So I haven’t seen any amended legislation legalizing coercive control and abuse of people with problematic relationships with food. Or FOO issues. Or people struggling to get masters degrees or battling cancer or caring for aging elders or disabled children or simply taxed from wrestling with important philosophical quandaries. But if abusers ruled the world (which they arguably do if you look at the psych profiles of CEOs and politicians), we’d all be on the menu. It’s beside the point. To grossly paraphrase Shakespeare’s take on jealousy, abusers “are not ever abusive for the cause but abusive for they’re abusive. It is a monster begot upon itself, born on itself.”

Validating your worth through the opinion of people like this is not advised. There are many other ways to judge self worth (accomplishments, positive relationships, inherent self feelings, etc.). You’re in a low place, so I get why you care…but fight the urge to care at every single turn. Check out of this cluster F of a situation, get through your divorce as quickly and painlessly as possible, and build the next best chapter of your life as an independent, hard working woman.

Stopping caring is a practice. In the beginning you have to intentionally fight the overwhelming urge. Do something to district yourself every time you find yourself thinking about this or having a feeling about this ridiculousness. I became a work-a-holic and a home organizing nutjob during my time trying to get my ex and his ridiculousness from living rent free in my brain. It helped to get my mind away from all things him. Its pretty much “fake it till you make it” at first, but over time it gets easier, and then one day you realize you haven’t thought about this at all for 24 hours, then 48, and so on. Celebrate those milestones!

With that being said, if this lady and your ex do anything to actually slander or defame you publicly, consider hiring a attorney to send them a cease-and-desist letter. Otherwise, walk away from this toxic gossip.

My ex-fuckwit is a LMFT and I used to believe that “therapist” was a reliable title. Now I know better, just like everyone there are good people and assholes.

I live in a small town where I see my former in laws a lot. The emotional stress of “do they believe his story” gets a lot lighter when I realized this. “He told them I was a crazy terrible mother. But he NEVER comes to get his kid. Why isn’t he trying to save the baby, who he claims is the only reason he married my worthless behind?” To their credit, they offered to help, and found that the primary reason for my crazy was their son.

People around me and around you know BS when they hear it. Filling your time with friendships and goals will gradually tune out the stressful undercurrent of real or imagined gossip. I was too busy functioning to respond to accusations that I wasn’t functioning. You got this! And the next time you sing musicals, i hope it’ll be full voice in a fun setting.

Oh ActuallyNotCrazy.

I am late to this party but I can’t even begin to tell you the things my XH did to try and convince me I’m mentally unbalanced.

Full disclosure here: I, a seminary student, at one point wrote the Other Woman a letter chiding her for being a Christian adulterer. Not my most “meh” moment (this was my pre-Chump-Lady era), but I did not in any way threaten her or call her names, I simply pointed out what a blazing hypocrite she was. (She later dumped my husband to marry a pastor and became a pastor’s wife, btw.)

My then-STBX used that letter to try and convince me I was crazy. Only an insane person would tell a Christian that she shouldn’t commit adultery, apparently. He showed the letter to a therapist taking dance lessons at his studio who also reportedly concurred that I am a crazy woman and only a mentally unbalanced person would write that. My XH called me “psycho” and “dangerous.”

It’s been 8.5 years. I moved on, finished my master’s degree, remarried, got an awesome job working for law enforcement (which involved the most strenuous background check ever—they wouldn’t have hired me if they thought I was even a little bit “psycho” or “dangerous”), bought a five-bedroom house, and am now working on a PhD. I just gave a killer presentation at a Christian conference in November and had two well-known publishers tell me they are eyeing me for a book on my dissertation topic. I just had a tweet go viral and get shared hundreds of thousands of times on social media. Life is peaceful, drama-free, good, even exciting–in the right ways.

Meanwhile, my XH (who is a clinical sociopath) still lives in a sad little two-bedroom rental (which he shares with his girlfriend’s homeless mooch parents), has constant trouble with money and adulting, and still regularly lies to me about the most insane stuff. Yet I’m supposed to believe I was the problem in my former relationship.

This woman your cheater is talking to is probably BOTH screwing him and is a terrible therapist. But even if she’s only one of those things, so what? I promise you, the best revenge is moving on and living your life. Promise.