How Many People Knew and Didn’t Tell You?
Well, here’s a depressing Friday Challenge. Conspiracy.
How many people knew your partner was cheating on you and didn’t tell you? One to five? Five to ten? More than 10? 20? 30? Coworkers? Children? Are we counting sex workers?
I’m truly curious because I’d love to be armed with a statistic the next time I’m asked to talk anywhere. The discourse on infidelity is utterly myopic on this. It’s framed as a problem between two people, when instead it’s nearly always a larger conspiracy against the chump.
And I’m not referring to affair partners, the obvious conspirators. But the other folks pressed into silence, who don’t want to be the bearer of bad news, at best. And at worst, figure you have it coming, you awful person you.
The advice out there is to mind your own business. I absolutely understand why people don’t tell you, especially in the workplace. But what about the Golden Rule? Wouldn’t you want to know if it were you? If it was something less devastating, like someone was pilfering the petty cash, OF COURSE the advice is to tell. But someone is fucking around on you? I don’t know, that’s very complicated and messy and probably a victimless crime. Please go on and invest another 20 years in this person.
Gah.
Well, lay those numbers on me, CN. And TGIF!
I think the population of the county we lived in was around 7000. But considering I didn’t know all of them my best guess is everyone. My best friends knew and didn’t say anything. I heard it from the school secretary and once the cat was outa that bag everyone felt free to tell me stories. Btw. I have new friends now. Living my best life!!!!
That “cat out of the bag” phenomenon! Women started coming to my work to gush. I also got a couple “you can’t tell me you didn’t know” (victim blaming). Life lesson learned…MISERABLE people want to see people be more MISERABLE/SUFFER than themselves. The misogyny of WOMEN also blew my mind .
XW was having sex with co-workers, apparently sometimes in her classroom. She was then new to the school and was filling me with stories about how all the other teachers and parents were conspiring against her and spreading rumors. I tried to be sympathetic and supportive as I could see she was struggling and emotionally fragile. Eventually I got a phone call from someone who claimed to be a co-worker, but refused to identify herself. It was fairly vague and seemed to fall into conspiratorial behavior my XW had described to me. I ignored it and did not bring it up in sake of her mental health, but I had been majorly played! Somebody tried to tell me, but their lack of transparency just made it worse!
It’s amazing how they “vaccinate” in advance of disclosure. Looking back I can think of multiple instances – “oh, I exaggerated and called myself her lover in that social media comment for the sake of argument”. They can do it in the early stages of relationships, too – “Oh, I was seeing two sorority sisters in college but I hadn’t made commitments to either of them, so silly of me they were both furious when they put their heads together.
I was so young and foolish “.
Yes! Vaccinate! Great descriptor. I described this once as “lying to my thoughts” because it isn’t in response to an accusation, it’s to place a thought in your mind that will occur to you first if and when any details of the truth should happen to reach your ears. Years before I had any idea what scum she was, she had implanted the lies covering up and obfuscating what might get back to me. Imagine, living life as such a complete POS that you lie today, for yesterday’s foulness, so you can evade consequences for the truth tomorrow.
A friend told me her story…..when she and her sister were around 10 and 12 the school principal told their mom that she needed to tell the kids what was going on( their dad was cheating in small town). The principal said that the other kids were starting to talk about it and her kids were confused. Definitely not between two grown ups……cheaters suck.
The school, secretary! How did she bring that up in conversation?! Was it an accidental cat out of the bag, a friendly warning, or something else?
I heard the news from my dentist.
Evidently cheater brought AP with him when he had his teeth cleaned.
No shame.
Whichever way, I’m sorry, that would have been so hard.
My 9 year old son knew Chump lady and told me God bless him!🙏
What the what? Really? What’s the story there? A 9 year old reads my column?
The importance of punctuation 🤣🤣🤣
I think there might be a comma after the knew, I read it that way to start with too.
and the me.
I’d had my suspicions that he was doing more than ‘mentoring’ schmoopie, but after DDay, when he proudly told me that lots of people had advised him that he had to do what made him happy, because he’d been telling his family, friends and even our neighbours how nasty and unreasonable I was and how that had driven him into the arms of another woman, I felt like such a fool. I found out later that those people had told him no such thing, but I think him telling me that was a weird mix of projection /wishful thinking /justification and twisting the knife, thinking everyone had the same opinion of me that he had. Either way, I felt destroyed, knowing he’d been going round behind my back, getting ahead of the narrative, and them thinking things about me, but it helped open my eyes to the depths he was willing to go. I stayed quite a while after the whole messy situation, just totally shell-shocked with a small child and various FOO emergencies, but eventually I realized that someone that could treat you that way, ie try to destroy your reputation without a blink, just to justify their own shitty behavior, doesn’t value or love you at all.
Had same thing. She painted me as monster. She is sweet and petite so everyone believed. Hell I believed her and at time of DDay were together 22 years. Worse was it went on for 6 years, carried on while I was treated for cancer.
My ex did that too….”everyone thinks you’re a bitch….you’re so hard to get along with”. I took it to heart and made myself invisible. Those same people would comment how easy-going I was, so I could never trust anyone. I felt like they were all lying to me and talking behind my back.
Did you ever read the girl on the train? Her husband does that to her in that book and I remember reading it and it made me cry and I couldn’t figure out why. That book affected me so much and I didn’t know why because I was happily married and couldn’t relate to any of that. That story was insane!
Then I found out the truth and I thought about that book. My subconscious knew.
Same here. I got speeches about how “everyone” thought I was crazy and he was doing me such a favor being with me still. And how he has to defend himself from his coworker’s criticisms of me. Also conveniently became a reason for him to tell me not to go around his friends and stay away from his shop (he was a tattooist.)
So he had me thinking everyone around him thought I was insane and he was so stressed and put upon having to defend himself. I don’t know if what he was saying to me was a total lie, or he told his friends and coworkers lies that made them think I was crazy, or if it was half and half, or if it was all lies. I don’t know. But that’s the thing about abusers, they want you questioning reality. …And he sure had me doing that.
I feel you friend, Mine did the same. I was crazy and he was doing me and the kids a favor by staying. Such sacrifices he made in his narrative.
Made me question reality,trust noone & was completely isolation as i tried harder to dissappear.
What a schmuck !
Hard to shake that inner shame. Fuck those people
Be your best self. I am.working on it
Yes, that’s all part of it too, cheaters don’t just destroy your trust in them, trust becomes more of a global issue. Day happened just before Xmas and although I had supposedly won the pick-me dance, I remember sitting sobbing in the bf Ed room at his parents house thinking, if it had gone the other way these people would quite happily have accepted Schmoopie into their bosom to sit around the Christmas table this year. It was one of the loneliest moments of my life and the phrase ‘nest of vipers’ springs to mind.
– Not counting the AP but her family should count as I knew them too?
– My nephew who was forced into silence because he needed a job (worked for now-ex) and a place to stay (lived in now-ex’s apartment but was never to answer the door or the land line).
– Co-workers at a very large firm.
– Friends of ours who “lent” him money to buy a $3 million apartment for them to live in.
– Friends of his who help hide money by creating bogus investments that I got during the divorce and were then uncollectible.
-So many other who wondered but never had enough proof to tell me!! They were very angry and felt terrible when the truth came out. When people work together so closely and travel together for business, it really is hard to tell.
The best news is that I really had to think before answering this. That means I’ve let so much go and the anger is just gone. I can only hate the bystanders for so long!
CL, I’m curious what you think after seeing all the responses?
Are the numbers more or less that what you might have predicted?
I was pregnant with twins when he said, ‘I’m not happy and I’m not sure we’re right for each other’ out of left field after we just moved and bought our dream home. We had a 7 and 3 year old at the time. Right then and there I suspected. Later went on to do months of marital counseling and gaslighting and isolating me from my family and all the things. Fkn around on me and never really being there for me during my very difficult pregnancy. I found out on his phone through Instagram messages after I thought we’d recommitted. Trickle truth. The whole playbook. He and AP didn’t tell anyone. Loved the secrecy. As it came out everyone was shocked. But he decided to DARVO and had a “suicide attempt” that I stopped. And went to a 30 day mental health and rehab facility (that I paid for). I later realized it was DARVO and he was never serious. It was easier for everyone to rally around him in his time of need instead of actually deal with what he did. Waiting on arbitration awards as we speak. My twins are 9 months. My older two are amazing big brothers. I’m not really asking and I’ve gone no contact (except court ordered parenting app) but pretty sure many of his ‘chosen family’ has realized what he did and what he is.
My God, ChumpedMomof4– from one mom of 4 to another-/ you are BAD ASS!!!!! I hope that utterly worthless piece of shit suffers for what he did to you and your kids. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
I feel like we were with the same person. Mine left when I was pregnant and also did the whole ‘suicide’ thing too. His family realise what he was like too. It’s been about 7 years now. As time has gone on though, they have re-built a relationship with him and I have less to do with them for my own sanity
My exFW pulled the suicide card too. I don’t even believe he tried, looking back, it was just a story he told me to avoid consequences.
My college roommates knew about his cheating within the first year of our marriage and didn’t tell me.
Two have talked to me about it. One said she was sorry, she didn’t know how to tell me, and the other said she thought I knew.
My college freshman boyfriend (whom I remained friends with) also says it was an open secret in their circles that he was cheating on me.
We divorced 10 years later, this time over cheating that I knew about. I really wish someone had told me.
Agree. It’s the lack of consent as chumps to the cheater’s actions. If these people would freaking understand that cheating involves deception- duping the partner, and are close friends and family, they would tell the chump.
Kudos to those told the chumps about the lies through courageous conversations.
I don’t know what the stigma is in telling the domestic violence victim.
I agree the cheaters should be exposed and the chump should be informed but many times it back fires on the informer. The informer is labeled a troublemaker, busybody, pot stirrer, etc. and the chump will even distance themselves or outright turn on the person telling them their partner is a cheater. That said I would still recommend informing the chump.
A very dear friend did not speak to me for months after I told her that her then boyfriend was dating someone else. She married the cheater (small wedding, I was invited) and then funny enough dumped him less than a year after they married. Oh and he didn’t cheat during their marriage (that I know of) but she got tired of having to tell him to take out the garbage, walk the dog and other every day tasks. He was smart, funny, good looking but lazy and had no initiative. It didn’t help that her father cut her off financially because he had no use for the cheater. Anyway she met a great guy, a successful attorney and her father threw her a wedding (I was a bridesmaid) that was outrageous.
My younger sister told her friend, a bride-to-be, when her friend’s fiancé hit on her — in no uncertain terms — shortly before the wedding. (My sister is the best.) The friend was in disbelief, and when she confronted her fiancé, he trashed my sister and lied, and she believed him. My sister was disinvited from the wedding and cut off. Pretty sure we can all guess how that marriage played out…
As far as I know – nobody apart from him and (all 18 or so) OW. Apparently, he was “ashamed of his disease” (sex addiction blah blah) and didn’t want to ever leave me, so he didn’t tell anyone, hid everything like a Russian spy. But then the last (and most “used”) OW confessed to her husband and he came to tell me. Out of revenge towards him or because he wanted me to know or both, I am not really sure. However, still thankful to know what an asshole he truly is.
Same with me, Confused. With the sole exception of him having to explain to his female boss why he didn’t come to the meetings they had flown him in for (because he had been arrested for soliciting an undercover cop posing as a prostitute and was missing for two days), cheating bastard ex kept his very secret second life hidden from everyone.
We separated for three or so years after his arrest in the late 90s, but I took too many drags off the hopium pipe and let him move back in.
To this day, noone where I live knows except the friends I have told. He gets awards for community volunteerism and even had a small pavilion named for him after our divorce. So he is still successfully carrying on a double life, but I’m no longer being abused by it. I’m good with that.
While he preferred hookers and nameless internet hookups, there were a few dozen he screwed with more regularity than the hundreds of others. In the immediate aftermath, I struggled with whether I should tell the husbands of those that were married. But at that time, I was in such awful shape that I realized I needed to put my healing first or I wouldn’t survive. Two of the husbands I planned to contact died within months of our divorce, so I was never able to tell them. The third one found out from the spouse of another one of his wife’s hookups, so I didn’t tell him either, though I should have.
I called the husband of FWs ho worker. It went to voice mail so I left my number and as we were in the same field of work I used that as a reason for him to call me. When he did call I let it go to voice mail. When I listened to his voice he sounded really nice. I shyed away from calling him again. In that moment I just didn’t want to be the one to blow up his world (I had only just discovered who FW was fucking…. Literally hours!). I was also very scared about what he may say to me. Incredibly vulnerable, the anger didn’t hit til much later. I hid away really. Then shed all mutual friends who stayed in contact with FW. Not hiding now. I’m thriving now.
Looking back I would like to have been more brave.
Oh, but some of his friends from younger and college years knew he did it in all his previous relationships and never told me. He always lied about it and told me he had never cheated on anyone.
Had that too. In peeling the onion, his past behavior in other relationships came to the surface in martial counseling.
He KNEW 100% that if I had.known early early on while we were dating and before entrapment, I would have canceled the relationship.
It FEELS like entrapment to me. I was an excellent beard.
Being the beard sucks. 37 years for me. My foo issues were a part of my attraction to my gay in denial ex. Classic dysfunction. I inherited depression and anxiety genetically AND I’m an adult child of alcohol/dysfunction, emotionally neglected, physically abused, etc. Best path for me was to break the trauma bond, which is like being addicted to an another human being. Working on myself is the only way to recover. One day at at time.
47 years for me…the therapist told me 5 character traits play in this…but don’t change cause they make you a beautiful person.
Yeah, what is it with some people, that cheating is their standard MO for ending a relationship? Super lazy and cowardly.
I think cheating is their standard MO, period. I don’t believe there are that many legit “exit affairs.” My guess is that there are ongoing affairs/abuse, and things finally unravel, and then they claim it was their way out. I don’t think these FW’s have affairs because they need an escape hatch and want out. IMO just want kibble and triangulation and to duck around, and eventually things catch up with them. It’s just one more word salad/bagged salad excuse that helps them spin a culturally “acceptable” narrative and save face, after the fact.
We had a large circle of “friends” (associates) since FW was in the film/music/theater community. I’d known most of these people for years (some 10-15 years). They’d been to my wedding, my house, my parties, I’d worked with them on films. They ALL knew. NO ONE said a word. No one asked my side of the breakup. No one asked if I was okay. They started excluding me from events (or looking really uncomfortable when I showed up). Every one of them embraced OW and welcomed her in, after knowing her less than 6 months. I finally had to accept that they had never been MY friends. That I was only a means of sucking up to my husband, who offered them the possibility of work and getting their face out there. Unfortunately, the film community is full of narcissistic people. I had nothing to offer them, so to stay on FW’s good side, they supported the new woman he started flaunting. I am also sure that FW spent YEARS devaluing me to these people, setting up his eventual exit by painting me as cold and unfeeling, unsupportive, crazy, or whatever. The reactions they had to the new relationship of “I’m glad you found someone who APPRECIATES you” are very telling. OW had that opinion of me too (“you didn’t know what a good thing you had when you had it”), except she found out the truth in the end, and she left him when he started treating her the way he’d treated me.
Most of our coworkers knew too (we all three – me, FW, OW – worked the same job), and none of them said anything either. A few people who had worked with me in another position did suspect something and talked to me about it, but I didn’t want to believe it. People came forward to express their disapproval of the affair, FW and OW’s behavior, and their sympathy for me after FW and OW had both left the job, my boss among them. She didn’t feel she could say anything before (and she didn’t know ALL the facts).
The people at the charity he worked for knew, and that was very weird. Because it was a charity all about FAMILIES. They knew we were married.
It was humiliating when I learned how many people knew about the affair, while I’d been ignorant and acting like my husband was … my husband. It was a betrayal to learn that they’d accepted OW without question and had no issues with her. I was hurt and angry for a long time. I didn’t have many friends of my own, since FW isolated me, and we really only hung out with the people HE wanted to spend time with (which wasn’t my friends or family, most of whom he would ridicule and belittle to me, like “why would you even want to hang out with such a flaky person?” if my friend had something come up and had to cancel our lunch out or whatever).
In they end, these people weren’t FW’s friends either, they were using him as much as he was using them. It was all transactional and self-serving. And when he really needed people to support him, no one was there for him. He ended up taking his own life. All his “friends” showed up in droves to his funeral. They all expressed their sympathy to me, and suggested we “get together sometime”. I hadn’t seem most of them in over two years. I was polite and said “that sounds nice”. But I note it has been a year and a half and not a single person has reached out to me since that day.
I’ve learned to be much more particular about my friends. I have a few good ones, and I’d rather have just a few real friends, who actually care, who are actually supportive, who would be there for me if I needed them the same way I’d be there for them, the a whole host of acquaintances who run at the first sign of trouble. Oddly, FW’s family did NOT know about the affair (because he wasn’t speaking to them), and when they did find out they sided with me. FW may be gone, but his family is in my life (and my son’s life) MORE now, and they have been great. My kiddo got a set of grandparents, two aunts, two uncles, and two cousins, plus more extended family, that FW had been denying to our child because of old grudges. I count FW’s sister as one of my good friends now.
Much of this feels familiar, Light. It’s as if they try to turn us in to the people they say we are. It’s hard to shed the weight of it.
This is exactly my truth also, only 10 years later, the no-longer young AP is still mooching off XH… “FW spent YEARS devaluing me to these people, setting up his eventual exit by painting me as cold and unfeeling, unsupportive, crazy, or whatever. The reactions they had to the new relationship of “I’m glad you found someone who APPRECIATES you” are very telling. OW had that opinion of me too (“you didn’t know what a good thing you had when you had it”)…..” they deserve eachother.
I wouldn’t count affair partners other than those who I thought were my close friends, those for whom I had a pre-existing claim to their loyalty. So for me the total I know about would be 5 to 10, including my best friend from age 10 (best man at my wedding), and another of my groomsmen. Plus my cheating ex’s two business partners and their significant others. Plus my ex brother in law. My elementary school age son knew his mom used heart emojis when she texted a man on the Internet, but he didn’t know what it meant so I won’t count him.
Cheating is about so much more than sex and involves so many beyond the cheaters. It is a moral oil spill that spreads everywhere, touches everything, smothers all that is beautiful with a slime and stench that lingers for decades.
Last paragraph was perfect, just perfect
So sorry about your best friend. When I found out it was at the end of three tough years of health and job betrayal as a result of taking leave for health problems. Dday came ant my lowest point. The only thing that kept me from going over the edge was the thought that she could have slept with my friends but didn’t. I know this because of extended PI investigation. Nomar, you are a strong man. Again so sorry
Many of my XW’s friends were cheaters, especially her best friend from childhood. She was actively cheating with her boss. I know that two other friends had cheated and another would later. It becomes a web of conspiracy where they all have something to lose if they speak up. “Moral oil spill” indeed!
“Cheating is about so much more than sex and involves so many beyond the cheaters. It is a moral oil spill that spreads everywhere, touches everything, smothers all that is beautiful with a slime and stench that lingers for decades.”
Great and accurate analogy, Nomar. My ex FW worked for a Fortune 500 oil company, so this one really hits home for me. I copied that into my notes. Cheating is certainly the tip of the iceberg to the destruction it inflicts.
So very many people knew. Perhaps 20 people at the university where they worked had known for almost the entirety of their five year affair. There were others who had deep suspicions but they were much closer to me and because of the loving/joyful narrative I spewed about our marriage, they couldn’t quite believe that he was cheating. I think my foolish happiness and trust and nonstop banter about what a good man he was encouraged my closest circle to spackle right along with me.
Don’t beat yourself up, Paula. You were 100% in and committed- and duped.
The cheating has nothing to do with you. It IS humiliating finding out the person you regarded so highly could abuse you so horribly. It feels so public. And for me it makes/made me feel so dumb.
We are not stupid people. We trusted very capable liars. Why would be have doubted them while we were fully vested in the relationship, thinking they were too.
I presume at least one to 5. Co-worker/boss/best friend (all one person). The FW was very good at keeping things compartmentalized and separate!
What are your thoughts on being told by the OW? My ex went onto tinder and had a 4 month affair. The OW texted me late one night, and spilled the beans, saying he had told her he was very much in love with her and that i no longer loved him but he didn’t want to lose his kids. So she did the ‘right thing’ by telling me herself and asking me to ‘let him go’ for his happiness. This was a total blindside to me, as i thought we were happy. Anyway, once she realised he was ‘happily married’ she was furious, and i felt really sad for her whilst also of course, despising her. We are no longer together. They are not together and he tries every day to get me back and take no accountability for what he did. But if she hadn’t told me, I’d never have known and for that, I will always be grateful to her.
It’s a “good” thing OW told you but obviously she’s a POS.
She didn’t tell you out of the kindness of her heart. She figured if you knew, you’d leave and she’d win the sparkly turd. I think it’s fine to be grateful that you found out, but you don’t really owe her that gratitude, specifically. (unless it makes you feel better to have that gratitude) My STBX’s OW reached out to me once, via 2 texts 15 minutes apart. That wasn’t DDay, he had already told me. In her texts, she told me she wasn’t the first, that he “had cheated on her too” and said some hateful things, then the 2nd text was an APOLOGY in which she said she thought they “were in love”. They were fighting that day, but are now back on. I was so infuriated that she contacted me. And the nerve of her telling me, the wife that he cheated on her too. He can’t cheat on YOU. He’s married to ME. Of course, her texts left me wondering who else there was. He insists that she meant that he was cheating on her with ME. I don’t believe that BS obv. I’ve been with him 23 years, married 15 and his side piece knows more than me about what was apparently numerous affairs. I try to let it go because ultimately, THIS affair is enough to end the marriage. I don’t really need to know exactly how many others or when. But it does bother me that she knows the truth and I don’t. At this point, the least he could do is be 100% honest with me. (We are going to divorce and he is fine with that, so it’s not like he is trying to mitigate the damage and keep me…why lie now?)
Why lie now? Because it is easy. Because FW are cowards. FW are lazy and can’t be bothered by pesky emotions, tears and damage to their (perceived) image. Acknowledging the truth is courageous and takes effort. And integrity.
“Why lie,” you ask? Power.
If he tries every day to get you back, I hope you have gone No Contact and are simply routing those emails / texts to an archive folder so you can use them in the divorce.
The audacity to ask you to let him go for his happiness
I wish OW had told me. Instead, she lied to my face (she was my coworker, and, I thought, friend) for several years. I’m still not sure why (probably at FW’s insistance) because it took her much longer to “get” him. I would have filed for divorce immediately had I known for sure he was cheating. I wasted four years trying to “fix” my marriage.
Ex-FW kept his shit pretty well under wraps. Based on my information and investigation (I did some really deep searches when I finally got a clue) about four of our friends knew but said nothing to me. FW has spent about 18 months building up his narrative with these friends and his family of how unhappy he was, how he thought I was cheating on him, how I kept him isolated and so on. What an ass! I finally found out when FW left some stuff behind on the family printer. From that point I went to total investigative mode and found so much stuff that just delighted my lawyer, a PI and the forensic accountant. My son also found pictures and video of exFW and Primary Schmoopie doing the dirty in many different forms on his shared photo accountant (son used it for pictures to us and other family). This really helped in a fault state! Upon finding this crap, my son immediately told me. The really great thing about the FW was that he left a great trail behind to include receipts and money transfers. I was able to save money by providing this information to the accountant. Once we had a rock solid case, we filed and then FW was a sad sausage. Even with all this evidence FW tried to delay everything as much as he could! Finally, we were in a settlement conference with a retired judge and that judge saw everything and upon talking to opposing counsel FW was ready to settle. He had never been agreeable to anything before in regards to settlements. Apparently, the retired judge told him the consequence in terms of dollars, public record etc. that would more than likely happen if FW did not settle. FW settled within 48 hours and I did get his dissipation of marital funds back, a nice cash settlement, vacation points, the marital home, a vacation property, half of his IRA and then some. Divorce has final after 19 months.
EX’s family dumped me like a hot potato. They talked to my son and told them how evil I was (yep, FW kept up his truth with his family). My son told them that they may really want to take a look at what really happened, and he then went no contact with them. He was NC with FW since finding the pics and video and telling FW. Of course, it is my fault that son does not have contact with FW or his family, but it is not my job to do anything about it. FW found out what the consequences are of being a lying, cheating asshole. I am just glad it is over, and I can get on with living a life free of a FW and his multiple Schmoopies (yep, he had a primary Schmoopie and some alternates).
I would estimate around 6 knew. Her daughter and boyfriend. The couple who owned the garage we took our cars to and her best friend and her husband. I was told her bff and husband used to double date.
To clarify when I say her I meant Skankella the OW my oh so special cousin.
I often share that my Cheater’s behavior was likely very well hidden…he seemed to try to keep that part of life far away from home.
That said, I still think there was a narrative to his work associates/friends.
When my daughter and I were traveling to get to his retirement (from the military) ceremony (he had it 2000 miles from home which was really odd), I ran into one of his bosses in the airport. As we chatted with him, he got the STRANGEST, quizzical and pity-laden look on his face. I def think that a serious “mentally ill wife who makes my life hell” narrative was spun, yet no one ever fessed up to it.
From what I know, no one close to me really knew. It is remarkable that he kept this going for so many years. I wonder if some of his intense freak-outs were moments when he feared he might be outed. There had to be a bunny=boiler or 2 among his fuckbuddies.
I can relate to people having weird looks on their faces. I used to get people gushing about how fantastic I looked. To the point where it was weird and I would ask him what he tells people about me. Now I know he told people I was an older woman. So they were expecting grandma and I’m the same age as him and constantly hear how young I look. Now I get why they seemed shocked.
I got similar at FW’s funeral. SO MANY people (his friends, whom I hadn’t seen in over two years) saying “you look GREAT!”. It WAS weird. I had pretty much disappeared from social media, since he and OW were stalking me, so these people hadn’t even seen a photo of me in 2-3 years. I don’t know what FW and OW were telling them about me. But everyone seemed genuinely shocked that I was…beautiful? (I did look like a million bucks that day.) That I looked like I had my shit together? I don’t know what they expected, but I guess I wasn’t it.
I discovered that FW is a CIA-level liar. I never had a clue he had a whole double-life thing going on. Practically in my face and I missed it all. It turns out he was putting his child mistress up at hotels within a mile or two of our house for 3 or 4 days at a time and seeing her during the day when I was working and he was off or he’d go by for a quick roll in the hay on his way home from work (the nights he’d come home late and say he had to finish off paperwork). He was also calling out from work to take weekend trips with her without me knowing. There are things I see now, looking back, and there were questions I had in the last few years about his behavior, but I never for a moment thought he was cheating. But his affairs were all hookup hos and the child mistress came from a sugar baby site so I wonder how much people at work knew. Not long before blowing up our entire marriage, he took me to an event at his work and so many of the people there were surprised to see me and kept looking at me funny. So I don’t know if they knew he was cheating or if he had been spreading lies about me.
” I wonder if some of his intense freak-outs were moments when he feared he might be outed.”
It’s amazing what we see in hindsight and then say “Oh! Now I get it!” My STBX used to occasionally flip out that I used my real name on FB. He used a nickname that no one could find him if looking. He used to say it was about safety. I actually believed that was his concern. He also used to accuse ME of using my full name so old boyfriends could find me. Now I realize that he probably didn’t want some schmoopie finding ME and outing him! It is all so crystal clear now, but I 100% didn’t see it at the time at all.
I asked my ex husband if he could watch my dog for a month while I went home to visit family and he absolutely freaked out and had a full on panic attack. He said it was because he wasn’t sure how to juggle the dog and starting a new job where he’d have to be in the office a few days a week – I said that I’d arrange any daycare he needed but he was so stressed about it I backed off and changed the dates of my trip, forking out more money to do so. His behaviour was so weird and now I think it was a strange panic because he didn’t know how to explain to his AP why he had my dog but I guess he eventually worked that problem out.
Yea, that makes sense.
Cheater was military and there was a work dinner we needed to go to. On the way there, he had a huge rage, abusive screaming and driving like a lunatic. By the time we arrived, I was too traumatized to speak and my perception had closed down to a small bubble around my head.
As soon as we arrived, he ran into a female Lt Col who he had never mentioned and when he saw her, he said “there she is” what ann odd remark about someone he had never previously mentioned?? She got a funny look on her face and walked over to greet him.
Now looking back, I think the trauma was intentional – if he could abuse me enough, I would be incapable of being very observant at the event – and it worked
Im so sorry you had to go through this Unicornmomore.
No one close to me knew. He says no one knew except his therapist. I think his work buddy knew, but 🤷🏻♀️
I’ll never know.
Arseface was such a slick sociopath that he had Soviet spy level skills for keeping it all underground. The left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing. Some of the harem members worked together in his happy hunting grounds and were quite friendly with each other. None of them knew about each other. He must have gotten off on the duper’s delight.Not even his so called best friends knew what he was capable of. A stone cold sociopath who wears a mask of urbane respectability. No one knew till I sent in a P.I.
“No one knew till I sent in a P.I.”
Good!!!
Nobody knew because ex kept his trash whore hidden. She was on marriage #5 when i found out and even when they were officially dating before we met he never introduced her to anyone.
She was too dumb to think about that. He kept her around secretly our entire relationship.
In fact, she was an ex coworker of his at a large company and I got to be friends with several other coworker of his. I asked if anyone knew her and none of them even knew who she was. The company had 6000 employees and I don’t know what department she was in so it’s possible. But the bigger surprise was that he was dating this ho and his immediate coworkers all thought he was single.
A lot of people knew, but not a lot of people close to me. He’s dumb, but not that dumb.
With one exception: my MIL. She knew before we got married and said nothing.
Yep my MIL knew before me. We lived out of state and on a weekend trip which then husband couldn’t make, his mom gave me a large bag filed with new towels. He must have complained to her that our 2nd home didn’t have enough towels. The 2nd home that he was referring to as “his house” behind my back. Our son was in 1st grade and our son’s school speech therapist mentioned dad’s house and I even corrected her – so he was probably prepping our kids for about 1 year before Dday. So at least 5-10 of his friends and coworkers knew about his affair with the howorker before he eventually confessed to me when he had his ducks in a row for the divorce.
Yeah, same, my MIL knew at least 20 years before the poop hit the fan.
He told me she had said to him, “ don’t tell Chumpasaurus”.
My kids were young toddlers and infant stages then and she probably didn’t want the possibility of losing a relationship or time with them, so very selfishly kept her mouth shut about it. ( what the chump doesn’t know won’t hurt her stance)
FW was never treated like his other three siblings. He was worshipped by all family members,even extended family, no one would dare question anything he did or said. He was all knowing and all powerful in everyones eyes.
It was an odd dynamic really that I actually made fun of, not knowing it was so highly f’ed up and would have grave consequences for me down the line.
I think they all viewed misogyny as their god given right as males and the women in the family blindly accepted their inferiority and saw it as “ just the way it is”.
I knew FW’s dad treated his mother with great disrespect and subservient to him and all I thought was thank God almighty FW wasn’t anything at all like his father! He treated me with great respect, or so he projected. He seemed to be the complete opposite of his dad.
Little did I know he was far far worse than his misogynist father, but was just very covert about his views on woman. He saw his life as having much more value than mine and that justified all his actions.
His best friend from work knew. He was confused about it though and I saw a text where he asked FW why would he want to blow up his life. But the friend never did tell me, he worshipped FW too and would stand to lose too much personally by not having an association with him. ( they owned a boat together, FW contributing the lion’s share)
I think his two sisters knew the last few years of his decades long cheating. But you don’t question god, so kept their mouths shut and tried to help enforce the narrative that I deserved it somehow and why shouldn’t he find happiness, he works very hard in life.
My son and I were talking just yesterday about his father. ( a rare event)
He’s tried to maintain a relationship on some level, although it’s nearly impossible and he’s currently not on speaking terms with him. My son recalled when he was about 10 being out fishing with his father and being soo aware of how detached and distracted he always was,even as a young kid he saw that.
His mind was constantly someone else. My son had so wished to be able to talk to his dad and know he was actually listening to him, but that was never possible.
FW had one main schmoopie at that time and an array of side back up Schmoops in the scum pond and a very challenging job. That was probably enough to mentally juggle and keep it all compartmentalized and from blowing up in his face. It was the fear that never left his mind and his life became living in that space.
He had no time at all to be actually fishing with his son on the boat and be able to truly see him and deepen their father-son bond. It was always so superficial and for show, check that box so I can get back to what I want to be doing, my next planned seduction.
What tragic lives these people create for themselves. They are so busy covering up their crimes, that they never get to engage in the wonderful things that life offers us.
That to me is the real karma that hits them, missing out on and being unable to recognize the things in life that have the greatest value.
They never even see it. They are shells of humans, completely empty on the inside.
My Cheater was also worshipped and adored by his family… he was handsome, had a much better education and career than any of them and none would dare challenge him
FW fucked whores in massage parlors. I doubt he advised them he was married. Victimless crime then, right? He said it was maybe a dozen, but that he “doesn’t remember.” He also thinks his four incher is actually eight. Math is not his strong suit.
Ewwww…. Good riddance!
Everyone he worked with because they witnessed it. So throw in a couple 100..plus he had some colleagues as his wing men/women. This doesn’t include the colleagues he was fucking. This is a fortune 500 co. Then…..there were his singing buddies from his hobby. Min 6 dudes, most likely more. They knew he was keep his special friend in his hotel room during competitions.
Most of these people are married themselves. Do we get to count the spouses??
Adding onto my own comment- I forgot about people from my community who would see him at the major airport here, hand in hand with one of his special friends heading off to a bus-leisure trip. He’d work during the week and extend the stay with a special friend hiding in the hotel room. I don’t know this exact #. Let’s call it n>5.
Wow. That reminds me of a series of emails I found on D-day. One of klootzak’s OW was angry at him that he walked far ahead of her at the airport and was acting like he didn’t know her. She had booked a flight with him to join him on one of his work trips. I had looked back at my calendar and realized I had dropped him off at the airport for that trip. I was 6 months pregnant at the time. I am guessing there was a coworker on the same flight who he didn’t want to know so he was blazkng through the airport trying to ignore the OW who was going to be flying with him on a work trip for sex. She was madder than a wet hen. She had made excuses with her husband and taken a day off work and how dare klootzak treat her that way!
His OW were always either in the cities he traveled to or the town we were in and that is the only one I recall where he tried to bring her on a work trip. I doubt he ever did it again as she threatened to blow the lid on him and he probably realized it was impossible to hide OW from coworkers who were on the same flights. I still chuckle to myself at the mental image of klootzak trying to run ahead tk not be seen with her and her chasing to keep up and angry. lol
Im pretty sure his “bro” group at work all knew. He’s lied about their involvement, but I have enough elements to know there was some on their part (though I’ll never know exactly what it means, and I dont care).
Now, I wouldn’t expect perfect strangers to rock their boat and go out of their way to let me know, BUT at one point in the throes of despair, I sneaked one of their numbers out of his phone and texted this guy -and not only because my partner claimed he’d gotten a “ring-for-sex” red bell I found hidden in the car from this guy, who is openly gay.
He was nice enough to answer me, I guess, and confirmed that the item was from him as a gag gift (he seemed sincere). But he also gave me a generic platitude of “Im sure if you talk to (partner), you’ll be able to work things out”. But it sounded very much like he meant something by that, as in, talk to him, cause there’s more stuff you need to dig up.
All very fishy to boot, and it makes me shaky to relive that awkward conversation. Potential OW I reached out to at his job, count of 3; only 1 finally answered and outed him (she had been chumped as well).
TL;DR get out when you even simply SUSPECT cheating. Dont stick around, ever.
Because nothing says “I love you!” like hidden gadgets that make you question your spouse’s sexuality, might I add…
Around 12, including his awful friends and their wives plus his family members and some of his work colleagues. The humiliation was hard to take, personally and professionally (some of the work colleagues were lawyers who knew me professionally). Of course, I don’t know how many people the people who knew told, so it could be many more.
I don’t know who knew for sure. So much secrecy and gaslighting, I really don’t know.
FW and AP were coworkers at an online education company that was built from the ground up by a Fortune 500 type of guy. Only about 12 people total in their office. FW was senior to AP but both worked under the same senior manager/co-founder.
When DDay happened, FW blurted that everyone at his office knew and that he had discussed with one of the women there about his love for AP and how he no longer loved me. The night of DDay (after FW walked out and moved in immediately with AP) I sent an email to FW’s big bosses that FW had left me for coworker AP and that I was blindsided. And simply said that I was sorry I hadn’t gotten to know them all better (FW was only there one year at that point).
That’s when FW blew a gasket. He then claimed to his attorney that no one at work knew and that I was trying to make him lose his job. Which later came to light that he was already fired previously to DDay because the Fortune 500 boss hates him. And now FW and AP had to sign documents with lawyers to protect the company from their affair shit. I also had him served there. So if they didn’t know previously to DDay, the whole office knew now lol
And his bosses were not so happy being dragged in for discovery with the company emails too (AP and FW would send lovey dovey shit to each other while everyone was meeting together in the little conference room… “I can’t stop looking at you”… “stop smiling” blech)
In the end, I think maybe a few of the coworkers knew, but most didn’t. And FW kept me so segregated from his work that no one knew me enough to be able to tell me even if they wanted to.
The Fortune 500 boss ran into me by chance in a parking lot and told me point blank that he didn’t know about FW and AP and that he hates FW and couldn’t wait to be rid of him.
FW doesn’t really have friends. And doesn’t tell his family shit (one brother didn’t know for a month after DDay — I had to tell him). So I’m not sure if there were a lot of conspirators. He’s a lying gaslighting secretive creepy piece of shit.
Surprise, surprise, these narcissistic POS’ don’t have friends! My MIL was devastated when she found out (still is, 3 months post-DDay). I believe if his dad was still alive he would’ve known (he was a cheater, too) but FW didn’t tell anyone in his family because he knew how it would go. And it has. He is NOT anyone’s favorite person anymore.
The more I read, the more I realize they are all sociopaths at least. I trust people less and less. All of FW’s fam knew and he pretended estrangement from them to keep it hush. Sociopathic.
My husband, the OW and I were in AA, members of the same home group. Everyone knew. When I told my sponsor, she said, yeah I know. People have been talking for months. The OW was having a party and many of our ‘friends’ were invited, and my husband was supposed to show up with his suitcase, leaving me for her. It was so humiliating and disgusting. There is a common principle in AA that we don’t judge other’s sex lives, some like more pepper than others. I’ve dropped out of that organization as it’s not a safe for me.
“When I told my sponsor, she said, yeah I know.”
Betrayal of the highest order. Crappy people at the group.
“I’ve dropped out of that organization [AA] as it’s not a safe for me.”
Yeah, I definitely hear you on that one, IamChump.
As great as AA can be, a LOT of people who go to AA meetings have swapped boozin’ for shtoopin’.
Sober 34 years…. I horrified by your experience. Appalled.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
Realistically it is a tough stat to get. Many people will say ” I knew when she changed how she dressed and started working out”, or ” She was spending a lot of time with him”, or “They were always together” or “she was putting a lot of selfies on social media” However they didn’t know, they suspected.
How many really knew? I know of 5, plus all of the doorman at our apartment so 12.
Amazing how hated I must be that none could tell me
“Many people will say ‘I knew when she changed’…” for me it was reinforced my now-belief that he was a serial cheater because there were never any changes.
“Amazing how hated I must be that none could tell me”. Doc, as a nurse who has worked with docs for 38 years, it might seem really odd to tell you that some of us still see doctors as living in a place above and removed from normal life. Maybe I have met too many of them who are intentional with their aloofness, but the vast numbers of physicians I work with are very much enigmas to me. As for your fellow physicians, again, they are enigmas …I cant even guess what would pass as normal in that world. I have friends married to docs and I have forever feared of ever catching one of them with someone. Please dont feel hated…the thought of inserting ourselves into that mysterious physician world is a really intimidating concept.
Please don’t think you were hated. People are cowards and even a lot of mostly decent people will take the path of least resistance.
Ouch….that last line….”how hated I must be……” that’s it for me too….and when I express that thought to non chumps, all they have is” you need to fix your self-esteem problem”. And that just makes me feel more broken…..
For me the journey (in therapy) was one of realizing I was a good person.
I analyzed my actions – kind, thoughtful, caring, hardworking, loyal, honest – and realized in no world do those traits add up to me being a bad person. Even if I took my worst traits, social awkwardness, nervous oversharing, sensory issues, workaholism, none of those things were “bad.” None of those things purposefully hurt anyone else.
Then I analyzed the actions of my parents, bullies, boyfriends, and husband… and I saw a lot of behavior that purposefully was malicious. Words and actions that were intended to hurt.
The math sounds grim, but a light went on for me that I am a good person who had been trying to get love and approval from bad people.
How well people undervalue or misaligned the true damage and revise it to aim at us. That was one of the hardest parts for me , no one “got it” until I came here.
“Amazing how hated I must be that none could tell me”
I used to have this thought – it connected with deep childhood issues. Why were my parents so cruel? They must have hated me. Why was I bullied? I must be so awful and unlikeable that the other kids hated me. And on and on.
But I propose, that the actions of others really have nothing to do with us.
Them not telling is a failing of their moral system and character – it says nothing about your worth or value.
Consider reframing “How hated I must have be” to “how lacking in character THEY must be to have never told me”
Yes!….thanks NotAnyMore
You’re right. I actually asked one of them though, “why does everyone hate me so much? that’s what I don’t understand. Did I do something?” And she looked at me in shock and said, “no one hates you…”
And I was like, “then I don’t understand because I’d have to really hate someone to be ok with this being done to them.”
She said, “You have to understand that it isn’t about you.”
And I said, “Well, you have to understand that it is about me because I’ve made ever major life decision for the past 20 years based on lies. That was my life, this is about me.”
She got really pale and her mouth opened and closed and she just stopped talking. But she was right that it was’t about me, it was them. They would have done all this to anybody. Just like getting drunk and mowing down some people on the sidewalk, totally random, but still horrifically destructive.
So well said about those who refused to tell. I had reactions from some of total disbelief who thought we were the most wonderful couple . But the wives he annoyed by heavy flirting probably had an idea while I blind and dumb to it for all he was really capable of doing and actually doing. He himself alluded to it by commenting how guys at his work were man hores. He was caught up in making so much with sexual content and just got weird creepy and foul. Not one person told me but things happened that were strong indicators he had infuriated people at his work. We had been in tough physical occupations all along but after he changed his job all of a sudden he had to have message therapy. When I think back which I probably missed comments by people said half jokingly that did point to all his underhanded ness and cheating. But like so many things I overlooked the significance of those to.
I’m sure a couple of his co workers knew, since she was a coworker. My ex MIL knew. She had her over to dinner several times. Probably other people too. People that hold secrets like that are Pos anyways.
“My ex MIL knew. She had her over to dinner several times.”
what a twat
FW was a musician in a wedding band and his wedding band-mates definitely knew because he was philandering during all of his casino gigs (the last AP was a manager in the casino). He used to idolize these bandmates over the many years of our marriage – I remember when one got a divorce and he quit his regular job and was working at a garden center- FW seemed to admire this. I’m sure that other asshole was telling FW that cheating on your wife was easy and awesome (not that FW needed any instruction in that department- but FW cheaters definitely support each other). Fortunately, I rarely hung out with his bandmates so they had little opportunity to let me know that FW was cheating anyway, but yeah, they ALL knew for many years.
My ex was the boss of a division office. Gossip spread hot and fast in that place. He wasn’t popular but they feared him. But whispers got back to central office (he was stupping one of his high level subordinates) but no one said a word to me. I suspected something but he denied it all. So the gossip was hot and torrid but not one word to me. I suspect they were buying popcorn. I figure at least 250-300 people knew. Very humiliating. After it all came out as he retired to the sunset, he was well-hated by most but pretty much no one cared except for the entertainment value. They can go fuck off. It was a regular Peyton place. Tons of cheaters, undiluted, in one place.
I’m thinking no one else knew and kept silent. Goofy’s girlfriend’s husband gave Goofy a month to tell me (as soon as OW’s daughter told her dad what she’d seen), then the very nice chumped man sent me a letter. Possibly I was the only one who kind of knew, picking up on the manscaping, expensive cologne, shark eyes, etc., except I didn’t tell myself the truth, so . . . at the time I was my own worst frenemy. Heck, I even caught them at their lab and saw her massaging his ears with her breasts – and I still didn’t tell me what I’d seen.
He either has a freakishly tiny head or she has huge boobs!
She has very large boobs which give ballast to her butt. And he is a dickhead so, yeah, small head!
Ex-Mrs LFTT was very secretive, because she knew that her playing around would hazard the very nice lifestyle that I was funding. That said, there was a family friend who I now know was both encouraging her to be unfaithful and, where necessary, providing cover for her to spend time with her AP. But what goes around comes around, as this family friend found out a while later that her husband was also cheating on her. I am not in contact either with her or her cheater husband.
On the upside, my youngest daughter (then 11) was the one who discovered the incontrovertible proof that now Ex-Mrs LFTT was being unfaithful after harbouring suspicions for about 6 months that “something was up.” She told her brother and big sister (then 16 and 18) and they told me. I am very proud that the three of them had the moral courage to do what is right, knowing how displeased their mother would be …. and I’m pretty sure that, nearly 8 years out, Ex-Mrs LFTT still harbours a grudge against them.
LFTT
Five people that I know of; probably more:
– Wife of my coworker saw them eating together in an out-of-the-way restaurant. (1)
– My (now ex) husband’s client walked in on him and his first mistress cuddling in an out of the way room on a job site (he’s an architect and she’s an interior designer) and then told one of my husband’s employees about it. (that’s 2 more)
– Affair partner’s husband was told by his lawyer not to tell me because I was pregnant at the time. (1)
-And the biggie: My Mother In Law. About 1 month before our second child was born — my husband confessed to her that he wanted to divorce me for the mistress. In her defense, she encouraged him to break up with the AP and stick with me and the kids, and she was hoping he would take her advice and all would be well. She did admit to me she knew immediately after I found out on my own. And she apologized for not raising him better. And best of all — she refused to accept the AP after they married, including never visiting them even one time or welcoming AP into MIL’s home – hee hee. My ex had to take his new son to visit his mom without the OWife (now Ex-wife No. 2). My MIL continued to call me her daughter in law, and 17 years later still sends me money and a sweet card on my birthday, mother’s day and xmas, and cooks my “new” hubby of 15 years his favorite cake. So I forgive her for not telling me for the 6 weeks or so that she kept this secret.
This helps restore my faith in people
My FIL is similar to your ex-MIL. My FIL didn’t know about klootzak until I told him and he has kept klootzak at arm’s length as far as I know. When FIL calls, he calls me and asks how I am and his grandchild but never asks to speak to klootzak. And he told me I will always be his daughter no matter what. Sends cards to me for my birthday and Mother’s Day and always writes additional heartfelt sentiments inside saying what a wonderful person and mother I am. FIL is a gruff guy and I am one of few people he is like this with. He has many times apologized for however he contributed to raising a FW. He and MIL never got along well and divorced but there was no cheating.
Having said all of that, I don’t fully trust him, either. Because when push comes to shove, klootzak is blood and I am not. So I am careful what I say, for sure. On the other side of the divorce I think he will say “Good for you dumping that asshole!” but for now I dare not breathe a word about my ducks, attorney, etc.
Your MIL sounds amazing! I wish mine was nice/r. She won’t even say hello if I see her in town, gives me a phony half smile. Of course, her son told her that I treated him “terribly” & she told our kids that she can’t forgive me for that. Well, I can’t wait for what she thinks about the “I’m an alpha woman leader of the pack” AP someday (married 3 times already & has a history of taking those men to court -and she has no kids). MIL might just later regret how she treated me! Haha
Your MIL….might be a woman of great character.
My sister knew 4 years before I did because her boyfriend overheard my husband boasting about his current affair partner in the pub. Neither of them told me. They thought it was ‘kinder’ not to. Instead they told my mum, my other siblings, and by extension my entire family. My mother-in-law knew, and all the best friends he had during our 25 years must also have known (they were all cheater, too). Of course all the women he slept with knew and many of them, I much later realised, had been my best friends. So I had my very own ‘Truman Show’, where pretty much everyone I knew and loved – except for my kids – was laughing at me behind my back and colluding with the cheater. I think if your cheater is the sort to have multiple affairs over the course of the marriage then this is inevitable..
“My sister knew 4 years before I did because her boyfriend overheard my husband boasting about his current affair partner in the pub. Neither of them told me. They thought it was ‘kinder’ not to. Instead they told my mum, my other siblings, and by extension my entire family.”
OUCH. Just…. fucking ouch. I’m sorry you dealt with that. I think if your sister has never been cheated on, I can almost understand a little, her not telling you. I think people freak out and feel like THEY are the one that is going to destroy your life by telling you. As a chump, I think telling is the right thing, but I can sort of understand if someone doesn’t entirely get that. But then telling OTHERS? Who then go on to tell more and more? NO. That’s awful.
That sister had had a long affair with a married man in her forties. My other sister also dates married men. So maybe that was part of it. My mum and dad cheated on each other and were always arguing(which was why I was determined to have a faithful marriage). I don’t know about my brother. I don’t see any of them now, because it gradually dawned on me that the reason I ended up believing in a fuckwit and being betrayed had a lot to do with my family of origin.
” So I had my very own ‘Truman Show’, where pretty much everyone I knew and loved – except for my kids – was laughing at me behind my back and colluding with the cheater.”
This is an excellent way to describe it. It destroys your entire concept of reality.
Not a one. OWhore was a subordinate & I found info in ex’s datebook that led me to question him. Immediately, he squealed that he was having an affair. He moved out 3 weeks later & quickly filed for divorce. This was 13 years ago & I still run into people who can’t believe it including coworkers at the time.
My son, my son’s teachers, my sons’ music teacher, parents at my sons school, our neighbors and cheaters family.
We. lived in our neighborhood almost 20 years and cheater ignored our neighbors. He said they had nothing in common, he was better educated so they had nothing to talk about.
I’m friendly and I’d wave and talk to our neighbors if I was outside. I became close to a few, help out if they needed anything, such as baby-sitting at 2:00 am, run their day care business so they could go on school trips, watch their kids on weekends, be there for them if they needed someone to listen.
Suddenly after 20 years of not talking to our neighbors Cheater became the friendly neighbor. Waving when they’d drive by, walking over to chat with them, a total turn around. I was glad to see that he was being social because he had seemed depressed. I thought being social could be what he needed.
I found out later he had been confiding in them that I’m mentally ill. In tears, he had tried everything, I refused to seek help or go to therapy and he wasn’t sure how much more he could take. He also claimed I was an alcoholic, a slob, abusive, and had crazy mood swings.
I had wondered why the other parents at my son’s school weren’t talking to me as much as they had, I’d catch some of them staring at me then looking away. Some of my son’s teachers were giving me weird looks and were short with me.
Beyond humiliating.
My X did the same thing to me with our son’s school teachers. I couldn’t figure out what was going on. Now I suspect that he was screwing one of them.
Isn’t it a crime if you say things about someone that harm their standing like slander or something? This all sucks so much.
If you don’t count the schmoopies themselves, I don’t think anyone else “knew” with certainty. I do know now that there were quite a few people with very strong suspicions. Two neighbors in our last neighborhood saw him driving a woman to our house when I was out of town for work. Several coworkers of his noticed inappropriate behavior. A friend saw him out at a bar with a woman and thought it was odd but didn’t see anything weird. Juat talking going on. No PDAs so she figured it was on the up and up.
I highly suspect his sister actually knew because she was getting the paper bill from his burner phone at her house and he was also bedding a friend of hers so highly unlikely she didn’t know. Not that I’d expect his sister to tell me.
I would count about 15 people who said they had a lot of suspicion and his sister as likely to have known. BTW His sister is a guardian ad litem so what are the odds she isn’t coaching him heavily at this moment regarding custody battle?
When I think about it over the years, I would say at least 75-100 people knew. Mostly were his family, co-workers, and fraternity brothers. Some were “our” friends. All of them knew me.
His mother once told me that “I was nothing more than a Guinea Pig and she couldn’t wait till he dumped me for the newer version” in front of our kids. I just thought she was being viciously mean but now I realize she was being truthful as he had all the signs of a serial cheater. I didn’t realize he was cheating on me until 10 yrs into our marriage/13 years together when he was more interested in “working out” and “hanging out” with next door neighbor smoochie than anything else.
On every level it’s definitely a conspiracy against the chump and I believe now anyone who knows about a cheating partner and doesn’t tell the chump is nothing more than another piece of shit and I stay away from them. If they don’t have the integrity to tell an innocent chump than they are part of the problem!
I thought my MIL was the meanest woman ever. And she was mean but now I think of some of the stuff she said and I realize she knew who her son really was. She was angry when he got a vasectomy “because now he won’t be able to have more children with his next wife!” We were in like year five of our 20 year marriage at that point. She also used to ask me if he was beating me yet. She would literally pull me aside and ask me in a whisper if he’d started hitting me yet. It blew my mind. I had no idea why she thought he would do that, he didn’t seem to have any history of it, but she was so sure.
At the end, he told me how much he’d fantasized about murdering me. His mom knew what he was. She was still a piece of work but she knew.
That woman is a horrible person
Five years later I still ruminate over this treachery. Who knows how many? I do know some that did and that still hurts. My takeaway? Most people have zero spine. Seems to be a common theme with this stuff.
Not counting random people in bars, at work, sex workers; only the ones who had a relationship with me also.40-50.That’s why it’s so painful…that they knew me and thought I was only worth that treatment. We lived in a great town of about 40% military, so in our large, social neighborhood with a pool and clubhouse…neighbors were coworkers, some neighbors were in his band. Lots of people who depended on me( used me)to put their kids on the bus, give them a ride to airport, share a ski house,…..some knew me well, and some believed the lies. A few knew of the entire double life. They still hang out with him….on the surface he’s sparkly and he fits in their fancy bubble. I have started to pity them in a weird way….there’s a whole messy world out here.
Well damn I should double that number. Forgot to include his horrible family that played along with him. His mom and all the family she spread the story to about how hard he had it. Everywhere I went, it’s as if there was a secret handshake that I didn’t know.
Hundreds of people. Not exaggerating. Including his voluminous rotating platter of APs over eleven years, plus every coworker he ever had, and MANY of our friends (especially the musicians in all the bands) several neighbors, a few members of my FOO, and whoever he may have hired for nudity and/or sex acts, I have to think it shouldn’t be surprising if the number crossed 1000.
The only thing that surprises me now is that I don’t seem to have ever contracted any STIs from him. That feels like a flat out miracle.
“The only thing that surprises me now is that I don’t seem to have ever contracted any STIs from him. That feels like a flat out miracle.”
me too
I caught numerous vaginal infections. My family doctor would say, ‘This one is really bad. You’ll have to get your husband to come in so I can treat him too.’ So he was another significant figure in my life who knew and never thought to tell me what was going on. At one point I actually thought I was getting all these mysterious infections from eating too much home made bread. (Yeast.) What other explanation was there?
I’m too early in to have a complete number. I’m pretty certain 5-10ish corporate slimeball buddies knew and covered for him regularly over the years. Interestingly, he kept me separate from that crew. I only met 3 superficially. Odd that he spent so many hours outside of work with those guys but i never met them? Not even once? I think he hid his cheating from childhood friend group because I did know them, although we don’t hang frequently anymore. Her certainly liked his image as family man living a nice upper middle class lifestyle with that older friend group. Wifey appliance here with her nice income, social ability, etc was convenient bridge to that world. Pretty sure he is calling me crazy to these people now. I went from major stabilizing force to crazy bitch…practically overnight!
When did some of you find out more details on who knew? I’m not holding my breath at this point, but wondering if someone will come forward at some point. My best hope is an AP husband has better luck and chooses to fill me in.
Sorry if a repeat comment…think I lost first attempt.
Hi, Crispy,
There were lots of ways. In the old days, when you reserved certain travel things like plane tickets, the name of the travel would appear on the credit card bill. In the last several weeks, that happened.
A lot of it was in things I found in the house after he moved and stuff he left behind on the computer.
Some of it came from people who were feeling relieved that they “could finally tell me” things they felt like they couldn’t say before. (Those relationships ended, obviously.)
Some of it came from people who slipped up.
A few things came straight from him.
One came from my niece, who he had violated when she was a minor.
Some of it came from his online journaling (early social media, pre-blog).
The rest that I know about is clear from context, though I’m quite sure there’s plenty I don’t know about, probably including violating more minors. Can’t prove it, but a person doesn’t usually criminally offend against children just once.
I try not to hate, but if he was dying, I would feel only relief that I’d be 100% sure to never run into him again. Disgusting coward.
Oh god, it seemed like everyone knew things I didn’t. My own sister made a comment that made it look like she knew he was into male to female transgenders but not female to male and I just sat there in shock because I didn’t fucking know any of that, how the fuck do YOU know that?
But whatevs. I’ve figured out I was completely surrounded by people who just LOVE to have secrets. It makes them feel so powerful. One friend told me she didn’t believe he’d been planning the divorce because he told her where he was taking me on vacation for our next anniversary. I asked her where and she said, “I can’t tell you that! It’s none of your business!” as if I was insane and out of line to ask.
That pretty much sums up my entire 20 year marriage. It was all none of my business but it was everybody else’s business. Very weird group marriage scenario that for some bizarre reason had my name on the certificate when I apparently had nothing to do with it. Just wish someone had clued me in so I could’ve removed myself from that nonsense. They can keep their secrets, I want nothing to do with them.
The first affair, his brother. (as far as I know but I suspected more)
The second affair:
He denied when he left me that there was anyone else – the usual story ILYBNILWU, was leaving to find happiness, etc. He left 2 years ago, in the process of divorce we had a deposition recently where he disclosed that he HAD been having an affair for 2 years before he left:
– AP’s Mom and whoever else because they were carrying out (having sex) at her mom’s house (BTW, my STBX is 57)
– He met AP through his facebook high school friends – they knew
– Our best friends and children. We spent 20 years going on vacation every summer with them. Turns out he took his AP to our rental vacation home last summer with them – the whole time denying he left me for someone.
– The friends we rented the summer home from.
– His entire family. Turns out, he took her to Thanksgiving last year. While still denying to me and our two adult sons that there was anyone else. So that includes, Mom, Stepfather, Father, Brother, Spouse, Children, Sister, Children and whoever else was there.
His immediate family never even texted our sons “Merry Christmas”. Ghosted. Like we never existed for 30 years.
SMH at the snakes that live in the hearts of people.
We had custody of our grandson, who had been abused, and had been going to a support group for parents and caregivers of abused kids. At my urging, Fraudster agreed to individual therapy for his anger and chose one of the group leaders, although it soon turned into a captive audience to get “feedback” for the songs he wrote and performed.
When I discovered he’d fallen for a catfisher on a dating site and planned to move in with her, he set up a joint session with the therapist. First words out of therapist’s mouth were, “Fraudster, I feel so betrayed, personally and professionally.” I thought he meant about the cheating on me, then he went on to say, “I teach a class for teen girls about catfishers, and if I knew you were in a relationship with someone online, I would have warned you.”
The counselor apparently had known for a long time that my ex was planning to leave, and per Fraudster (not that he’s a reliable source) had told him to weigh if the damage to me and the child was worth leaving us, and he had calculated that his happiness was worth it.
I sat there in shock, wondering how this therapist’s first thoughts were about HIS OWN betrayed, not mine and child’s.
We stopped going to group, but I continued to take child to his own sessions there with his own therapist. I knew most of the therapists in that organization, and couldn’t tell if their looks were sorrow or pity. I do know that child’s therapist was quite surprised later to learn that I was the one who filed. Fraudster apparently told them that he did.
MC (with an outside therapist) did not last long because Fraudster attacked both of us, and I got him out of the house. Child’s therapist created a plan of care that specified no contact until Fraudster wrote and read to grandson a letter of contrition and apology, explaining what he did wrong. It took him over four months to write it, and that was with the help of three therapists.
I know therapists can’t reveal what they are told in confidence. Still, that man sat in sessions with us and never suggested marital counseling or that there were any marital problems or dissatisfactions to work on.
I would guess there were 5-10 OW (that I know about) and 10-20 outside people (that I know about) that either knew or had strong, strong, STRONG suspicions. I’m positive horrible things were said to the OW about me in order to justify the affair and the outside folks either didn’t care enough to tell me or didn’t want to get involved. I understand in a weird way, but I really wish I would have known. I would have split far earlier. Wasted years and all that goes with it. *thumbs down*
All his traveling coworkers knew, considering he openly carried on his various affairs right in front of them. No one ever gave me so much as a hint.
One of these coworkers was his “best friend” for years, and like all the others said nothing to me…..but finally got a taste of his own medicine when my STBX’s most recent affair partner was the best friend’s girlfriend!
Definitely illustrated for me that this was a STBX problem, not a “me” problem. He doesn’t care who or how many people he hurts.
I have a story that is the other way around. My now ex was apparently on a dating site and matched with someone in my office (who I didn’t know but knew of – it was a big office). Pre the first date they had agreed on she did a bit of Googling and realised he appeared to be my husband. She cancelled the date and blocked him. Then she agonised over what to do next. But decided to tell someone in the office she was good friends with that she knew also was good friends with me (details including his dating profile).
I sent a note to her thanking her profoundly for being brave and taking the steps of ensuring that I knew even if that must have been uncomfortable.
Back to the original question. I bet quite a few of his colleagues knew as he would go to great length to ensure we had minimal interaction.
She was a class act, and handled that whole thing well.
At five years old my daughter pointed out a street and said that’s where daddy’s girlfriend lives. She said she and her sister played with her kids. When I confronted him he said she was lying. Denying her reality and making her keep his secrets was damaging. As an adult she informed me there were many others. I suspect her teacher knew also because she told the teacher daddy said he would have to live in the dog house.
A few, her online best friend, the AP’s dad, brother, brothers wife, AP’s circle of friends.. Wouldn’t usually be an issue as very few in our circle knew, but she convinced me to take out family on holiday out to where AP lived, so I had a few holidays where I was in close quarters with all these other who knew and not one said a single word.
Pretty much the entire Catholic church congregation, including the priest, the deacon and the choir director, knew that my dipshit ex husband the trumpet player was boinking one of the cantors while he was married, for more than three years.
“Pretty much the entire Catholic church congregation….”
yep – – those church-goers are my favorite kind of hypocrites /s
I am so sorry that you had to experience that kind of betrayal. I am sending you blessings so that you can heal the hurts that those holy-rolling rat-bastards gave to you.