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UBT: ‘Schoompie Wants the Scoop-y’ on Chump’s Dead Husband

Universal Bullshit Translator
The Universal Bullshit Translator

Dear Chump Lady,

I am not sure what category you would classify this event. In 2020, after 20 years of marriage to a man that had an escalating addiction to alcohol and affairs and shopping and food — and the list keeps going — I learned that he had not been monogamous or honest through out entire relationship even preceding marriage.

Tens of dozens of hook ups with both genders, so-called “love” affairs with women from his past — your run-o-the-mill double life, minus any rug-rats out of wedlock. That I know of. One of the earlier affairs took place in my home, in my bed, multiple times.

That affair AND the OW were exposed in 2017. Drama ensued, conversations were had, OW defended her invitation and willingness to fuck a married man in the home where his wedding photos hung above his bed: “We’re all adults here and can do what we wish”. All the textbook crazy makings of a betrayed wife that was not yet in therapy. The OW’s phone numbers and social media profiles were subsequently blocked. I got into therapy and started moving towards something better and healthier.

My husband passed away four years after this affair was exposed from complications of his alcohol addiction. Much happened in those four years. In regards to our respective recoveries, I moved forward and he got worse. And while his death was tragic, he does not get a free pass for the havoc that his affairs and his innate lack of character caused on a broad scale. My forgiveness, as my grief, continue to be a work in progress.

Recently I was doing some deep cleaning of old text messages, emails and voicemails from my phone…. See where this is going? Because the OW’s number was blocked, I was unaware until recently that she had left me a voicemail six months after my husband passed…..FOUR AND A HALF YEARS after the affair was exposed…

“Hi, this is (Schmoopie #107). You probably remember me, I was a friend of ****. If you could give me a call back, I just learned of his passing and was hoping you can call me back and let me know some of the circumstances. Thank you.”

Her voice was casual, calm, assuming, like she was calling me to catch up. Like it was no biggie. I mean, what the actual F?????? How screwed up is that? I listened, listened a second time to make sure I was hearing correctly, took a few deep breaths to calm my pulse… LAUGHED… hit delete and cuddled up with my puppy in the middle of the bed for a 4-star snooze.

I’m SO THANKFUL for good therapy and the tools to deal with the shit show that keeps on giving! I would love you to run this through the UBT because you gotta laugh right?


A Former Chump
Independently Owned & Operated


Dear A Former Chump,

If Schmoopie #107 “learned of his passing” — what is there to tell? Colonel Mustard, in the library, with a candlestick? She can’t read the obituary like other people?

Oh right. She’s special. Needs the blow-by-blow details. After all, she feels close to you, having slept in your bed.

Egads. What a nutter.

It’s not much of a message to feed to the Universal Bullshit Translator, but it’ll toss back the snack.

Hi, this is (Schmoopie #107).

Surely you have us indexed and cataloged somewhere. Did he not leave the Excel file? Cross-referenced by perversion? #107. Right there between “denim overalls” and “ass play.”

You probably remember me,

I will not be ignored.

I was a friend of ****.

By friend I mean “someone who fucks your husband under a canopy of wedding photos.”

If you could give me a call back

If you could shoot some centrality into my veins. I need to feed on your pain.

I just learned of his passing

His burner phone didn’t pick up. Then I googled. I can’t believe I missed the wake. Was there an open bar?

and was hoping you can call me back and let me know some of the circumstances.

I was hoping, since you’re recently widowed and all, if you could describe the circumstances of his death in detail to the woman who was his mistress. Or perhaps you could just stick needles in your eyes and let me watch. Call me!

Thank you.

It’s been a pleasure mindfucking you. Reply for more!


Former Chump, I’m glad you blocked that wingnut and got therapy. I more fervently wish you had divorced him instead of sticking around, but hopefully there was a generous insurance policy.

The UBT has done its work, but wouldn’t it have been fun to call her up and tell her how he died?

Of course you SHOULD NOT DO THIS. (If it feels good, don’t…) And yet… think of all the creative methods of death you could’ve mindfucked her with.

There was a terrible accident at the Williamsburg candle factory. He dipped his dick…  Scalding beeswax. Historic reenactors were called, (sob) but they only had 18th century first aid.

He fell backwards into a vat of acid.

The clap. You should have yourself tested.

Leishmaniasis. The engorging, exploding kind.

On a grotty sofa in a youth hostel, with a needle in his arm. The police suspect his rent boy.

Peacefully, in his sleep, murmuring “Gloria.” Your name isn’t Gloria? Oh, that must be 117. I misread the Excel file.


Okay, I got that out of my system. Had she objected to the gory details, I would’ve said, “We’re all adults here.”

Keep rocking your new life, Former.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Yup. Walk on by that one.

    When my life was falling apart, my therapist made points several times about not having anything to do with any other women in his life that might pop up. I didn’t have custody issues anyway, thankfully. She said something to the effect that I should say that if we are all adults, we can figure it out for ourselves. That made sense to me.

    I’m blissfully ignorant in some ways and not others, but I haven’t had to apply that advice. The adult kids and I have talked about what we would do if we got word that he was gone, and at least two out of the three of us would stay out of it. The third said recently that he’d have to weigh it at the time. IMHO, we might not even be notified, though.

  • I experienced The Death of The Cheater in Wreckonsillyation, so I get it. My dynamic with the main OW was different (I wish I could get her to spill some tea, but I wont ask) but I think the Universe gave you a chance to respond in whatever way is the most annoying to the OW.

    For me, I waited until a few months went by and did the Chump version of the same…I texted her (which I never otherwise did) referring to his death in a casual way (as if I was sure that she already knew) even though I was pretty sure that she didnt.

    If any of them ever reach out, I think I will concoct a story that they were his true love and he was on the cusp of leaving me when he died. That might torment them throughout their declining years.

    What you did was perfect…IGNORE then laugh. Perfect response.

    For me, the only unturned stone is that Cheater got sick during a trip out to where (unbenounced to me at the time) Schmoopie was. It was a contagious condition which sat dormant in him for a few years then reeked havoc all at once. I have always wondered if he might have caught it from Schmoopie. I would love to tell her that she killed him.

    • “ If any of them ever reach out, I think I will concoct a story that they were his true love and he was on the cusp of leaving me when he died. That might torment them throughout their declining years.” While I would love to think it would torment them, it could go the other way and they would gloat that they won the pick me dance.

      With any luck, that OW has the contagious condition lurking within her ready to wreak havoc. After D-day number 1, I wrote one email to all the schmoopies. Listed all their emails in the “to” line. No blind copies. “You all don’t know each other but you have all been sleeping with FW. I’d recommend you all do what I did and get tested.” One wrote back claiming not to know who I was talking about (though I had their emails back and forth to each other and he used his real name). Two others responded “OMG And he never used protection!” I wish they had hit “reply all” on their responses. hahaha

      • I know we’re not supposed to engage and it’s good advice for so many reasons. But that was funny and apparently had zero fall-out for you, just a few yuks. My view of PTSD is that if you can lace certain human-caused traumatic experiences with a few pranks that crack you up for years whenever you recall those events, you’re probably increasing your lifespan. It sure beats traumatic flooding from awful flashbacks. As long as there are no consequences to chumps or kids, I would never judge.

        I learned about “PTSD hacking” from a friend who’d survived and thrived despite severe childhood trauma. She stood by me and even stayed with me for a month after I was stalked by a workplace psycho and went through the criminal process with me. She stood by me when certain coworkers sided with the perpetrator and tried to take my job out from under me. And while too many other people seemed to have repressive expectations that “good victims” be depressed and demure and almost ashamed and chastened (lest they risk being seen as “bad victims” who “deserved” to be victimized or probably made the whole thing up), she did everything she could to make me laugh. She’d make up spontaneous song parodies for every occasion. She had a running commentary of brilliant asides. She insisted on fielding calls from the stalker’s flying monkeys who were trying to pressure me to drop charges and then tried to pressure her to drop me as a friend. She’d pretend to listen to their bs with her usual dimpled, Rebecca of Sunnybrook innocent demeanor but was, in reality, making “gag” faces at the phone and turning purple from laughing silently. Since she was pretty high up in her industry and experienced in workplace politicking, she coached me on how to get the flying monkeys fired and then laughed and danced around when it worked. She completely changed the concept of how a “good survivor” behaves. A good survivor is one who survives and lives to fight another day.

        How it’s even possible that those are some of my best memories is a mystery but I can’t help smiling when I think back on how much fun we were having during some of the most stressful events of my life. She demonstrated how she had gotten through much worse and shared her survival tactics. Incredibly generous. I later read a study that WWII POWs who engaged in gallows humor were more likely to survive. From what I’ve seen, it makes sense.

        • Yup. Learning to laugh at how ridiculous it all was helped me heal as much as any therapy. Now when I think back to that horrible time, it’s mostly just funny.

  • Former Chump, You definitely made the right choice to ignore it. I am sure, she just wanted to get a few kibbles at your expense and try to bring you down to her level. Nope. She is probably hoping for something and will do anything for a bit of contact and to inflict some type of pain on you. Instead, she gave you a good laugh.
    Keep moving forward!

  • Any other senior chumps wondering if they’ll be contacted when FW dies? Also – and more useful – what percentage of cheater’s Social Security benefits are available to surviving chump? Married the typical 30 years.

        • Thank you for posting this, @Googlegirl. My divorce has only been finalized for four months, so I hadn’t gotten around to thinking about this just yet. It was great to see the details, thanks again!

          • You’re welcome, I’m glad you’re not like my friend who divorced her spouse a few months before ten years, wish I would have known then. If you have any questions You local SS office can help you.

        • My mother was very surprised a few years ago when my father, her X-husband died about 4 years ago. Though they had been divorced for over 20 years, and he had remarried (the 2nd wife died before him) Mom got widow’s benefits.

          That’s one thing I can look forward to if I outlive (??) XAss I guess. I doubt my X will ever remarry. I certainly have no intentions of doing so.

    • I didn’t get any survivor benefits even though we were still legally married (had been for 13 years) because I earn too much. My son got benefits, though.

      • I will note that I am not yet retired, so that may change when I retire. I will absolutely reevaluate when the time comes.

        • It will change when you are retired if you apply for SSA benefits, you will get the larger of what you would get on your account and what you are eligible on his account. Good luck either way.

          • Does this mean that he will get LESS $ when he retires? Or is it just how my SS benefit will be calculated? (I wasn’t aware of any of this SS stuff as our divorce has not yet started .. I have a lawyer picked out, things are just moving slowly.) This is really helpful info bc one of the aspects of the divorce that is causing me a lot of anxiety is that my mom was single when she was elderly and she had NOTHING. And now I worry that is where my life is headed. I am 50, have NO plans/desire to date, let alone re-marry and getting by on a single income where I live is not going to be easy. (He makes 2x what I do)

    • If he made more money than you, when you retire you will be entitled to social security payments based on his top salary (not yours). Silver lining for some!

    • Just had this conversation yesterday with a longtime friend. The AP won’t want to pay for his cremation, guessing she’ll contact someone. I get a small monthly alimony check until he’s 67, he’ll be 65 in April-tik tok, if it’s a week late I’ll call Social Security to check if he’s dead. I own the life insurance policies so I’ll need death certificates (one policy expires at the end of this year).
      His SS will be helpful as I had 9 years not drawing a paycheck, I took mine at 62, only divorced for 18 months. Another person asked me if he was still a drug addict. ❓ Guessing if he wasn’t he’d contact his adult kids or want to make amends but who knows?

    • I’m guessing that we won’t know until my part of his pension is reduced. When that deposit comes every month, I take note.

      My ex is not in contact with his relatives like he once was, so they may or may not be involved. It’s hard to say how that will go down.

      You most definitely are eligible for spousal benefits when the ex is still alive and/or survivor benefits if not, depending on the respective ages and earnings. My benefits will be just over the spousal benefits from what I project, but survivor benefits are yet more. Also, look into what they call the “widow’s cap” if they file for Social Security early.

    • I’ve asked myself that question. The three packs of Marlboros have to catch up eventually, right?

      He’s likely to be able to collect on MY SSI or the new wife’s (however that works); he has worked under the table since the divorce, and owes over $90,000 in back child support. If he does get to 67, then Child Support Enforcement is prepared (and excited – he’s been horrible/scary to them too), then his SSI will be garnished for back support. I’m older than he is, so kinda like a deferred annuity in my old age. If/when he kicks, I’m also planning to file against his very nice house for back support – he’s too crazy to confront alive, but when he’s gone – if he goes before me – all bets are off.

    • My parents divorced and FW father married the OW. My mom remarried. When my FW father died mom claimed his Social Security bc they were married 22 years, and his was greater than hers. This was in ‘94, so maybe things have changed. When my beloved step-dad died in ‘06, she claimed his because it was more. You got to choose one, whichever was more.

    • You can collect social security payments when you reach your FRA ( full retirement age, which is 65-67, based on your birth year)
      It does not matter if your ex is retired him or herself, or has reached his FRA if you are divorced, it is based on your FRA, not theirs.
      For example, my ex is a year younger than me and hadn’t collected his SS yet, most likely won’t till age 70.
      I would have waited originally, if still married, till I was age 70 too, to collect, to get the maximum growth of the SS pay out. ( will increase about 8% a year after your FRA and then not increase past 70)
      There is no additional benefit increase after you reach age 70, even if you continue to delay starting benefits.
      The reason I took it early is because half of his benefit( that’s the amount a spouse or ex is entitled to) was about $350 a month higher than my full SS benefit at my FRA.
      My benefit would continue to grow from 67-70 years old if I waited, but it wouldn’t grow enough to offset collecting three years earlier on his benefit, so I opted for that instead.
      You can collect it without your ex having any knowledge of you doing so, your business stays your business, if that concerns anyone, and it has no effect on his benefit.
      You are not entitled, divorced, to benefit from the growth of delayed retirement benefits based on your ex’s SS growth from his 67-70 years, you can only get his FRA benefit, the amount it is when he is 67. For that reason, it was worth me taking it early.
      So since I knew I was going to draw on his benefit anyway( being the higher of our two, SS pays you your benefit first and the difference of his higher one is added to that) and knowing that I wouldn’t benefit from any additional growth to the benefit since I was divorced, I took the earlier pay out, which was higher already than me waiting till my benefit grew to that amount by age 70.
      I probably confused the hell out of everyone now, lol! It is hard to absorb it all. The government has a way of making things as complex as possible on the regular.
      I only mention it to anyone who might be in this select group of ppl who really didn’t have any intentions of taking the money earlier than its max growth allows, but this is a situation where it does not pay to wait for that to occur.
      Then if they die before you do, contact SS again, because you may be entitled to a higher benefit.

    • My dad knew a lady who escaped and divorced her untreated bi polar ex after he threatened to kill her. She was so scared of him. She had to go no contact with everyone her ex might get info from. She moved west, stayed low for years. Ex died and his company spent over a year trying to track her down til they found her. For years she lived hand to mouth. Turns out ex left her half his pension and she got all the back pay in lump sum and now regular money. Enough to buy a small home and live like a human again. So, if you are listed as a beneficiary, you will be notified. If you move, keep them updated.

      • That’s good to know. I get my ex’s pension when he dies. I will definitely contact them if/when I move. Hadn’t thought of that.
        I was worried I wouldn’t know if he died. Daughter has been no contact with him for longer than I have been, and I’m not close with any of his other relatives.

    • I’m sure FW’s sister would contact me if he should die. What I sometimes worry about, however, is
      *how I will tell my adult kids.
      *whether anyone will go to the funeral,
      *how my kids will react, especially if x kills himself, which has always been my concern given the multiple suicides in his immediate family and his own persistent depressive mood,
      *and whether the AP-now-wife will distribute suicides notes that will no doubt be upsetting.

      I’d like my kids to be spared all of that.

      [Observations about my own comment: Old habits die hard. It has always been hubris on my part to think I could throw force fields around my kids to protect them from their dad’s toxicity.. They are adults now. I can’t do anything about any of this. *sigh*]


    • Not sure what the percentage is, but there are benefits to long-term chumps even after divorce. As I understand it.

    • I think I’ll be notified. I’m still friendly with his family and we have a son together. The question for me is whether I’ll attend. If it happens tomorrow I’ll probably attend for my son if he wants me to, since he’s only 19. But the older my son and I get, the less likely that I’ll attend.

      An interesting question for me is whether he would try to attend my funeral. I’ve left instructions with my family to block him at the door if he should try, but I suppose they would decide in consultation with my son.

      • Though it sounds highly unlikely you’ll go first considering, I suppose you could add a bonus to inheritance if they comply with your final wishes. Give the money to cat shelters if they don’t. I think if this was my concern I’d add this to my will using humorous terms, like threatening to use my influence in the sweet hereafter to make all their milk turn sour, mess up their blue tooth devices or get them splashed by passing trucks if they let the ex anywhere near my urn.

      • You make a good point about the age issue. Our kids were 17 and 19 when my ex left, and now they are 23 and 25. They’re in a very different place now than when it all went down. I think if he had “departed” early on, we all might have gone. Not now.

        I won’t go to his because I don’t want to deal with his family. I told our adult kids to not contact their dad or his family if I go first. They are not at all in contact with any of them anyway.

  • I also believe OW wanted a chance to tell chump how much he still texted her and promised her and their undying love, until he couldn’t.

  • I think this is just a symptom of these people feeling entitled….to their affairs, to centrality, and then to information even after there is no contact with the OG cheater. My exfw’s ex contacted me to “apologize” years after she threw him out for cheating. After she paid upwards of 100K for his divorce and custody battle with me. Did she really want to apologize? No she did not. She used me for information and to try to figure out what jackass had been lying about and what was true. Hint: IT WAS ALL A LIE.
    She felt 100% entitled to ask me questions for her peace of mind then disappeared. I should have blocked her immediately.

    • I think you hit the nail on the head and this is an instance of feeling entitled. My ex even felt he was entitled to a friendship with me after we divorced! I was nonplussed–until I realized he had no empathy for what he’d put me through and what I was feeling, had felt he’d been entitled to do what he had, and his hurt feelings over my rejecting a post-divorce relationship (no doubt he wanted a friends-with-benefits arrangement) were merely an extension of that same entitlement. Another lesson in “trust that they suck.”

      • Mine not only wants me to remain his friend, his “family”. He also wants me to befriend the OW. He told me it would be best for our kid. Here’s the thing, you see people sometimes where the 1st wife and 2nd wife get along so great that holidays and vacations are all spent together. I do think that is probably excellent for the kids. But how many of those cases are situations where the man was cheating WITH wife #2 and she KNEW he was married with a kid? Sorry. Due to our kid, I will always have to be in contact with him in some way, but I do NOT have to ever have anything to do with her. Period. His insistence that I “have” to are just that, his huge sense of entitlement. (In fairness, this isn’t just me being stubborn, I simply don’t have that kind of forgive and forget in me.)

        • You know it is ok if it is just you being stubborn. You have the right to put up your own boundaries and no one else has to like them. CL said this once and it really stuck with me.

  • Schmoopies love centrality. Now that he’s dead, she’s lost some power.

    When FW killed himself, I unfortunately had to contact (former) OW to get the his landlord’s contact so we could get in the house (FW had been missing almost a week). I did let her know that the police found his body. She then proceeded to call, text, and email me about all sorts of things, and contacted FW’s sister as well. It seemed like she thought we could bond over our shared loss (and the fact that she finally realized that FW was abusive and left him and suddenly believed my stories about how he treated me even though she’d called me a liar for years). I told her exactly what I thought of her and then blocked her.

  • I think this voicemail was also a bid to get confirmation that she was something special, “on the inside” of the dead cheater’s life, validation of a delusional belief that her relationship with the cheater was somehow comparable to a marriage of 20 years. In the twisted mind of such a bunny boiler, that would make AP and Former Chump “sister wives” of a sort. These people never let go or self-examine, not even when death enters the picture.

    • My xFW was so delusional he thought that the AP and I would really like each other, and could be like “sister-wives”.
      Before I found out about their relationship, she and I DID get along quite well. I realized, later, after she broke up with him (the first time – I still didn’t know about their skanky behavior), that she was a self-important, high-maintenance, horrifically insecure SCIENTIST, with a PHD (!) as she was quick to tell anybody who would listen. With ethics. ETHICS, I tell you. She was only nice to me to gain more access to the FW.
      As for me, well….I’m a chump who refused to listen to what my gut was screaming at me, and instead chose to listen to lies.

      • “He thought that the AP and I would really like each other, and could be like ‘sister-wives’. Before I found out about their relationship, she and I DID get along quite well…she was only nice to me to gain more access to the FW. As for me, well….I’m a chump who refused to listen to what my gut was screaming at me, and instead chose to listen to lies.”

        SAME. After FW died, I found a bunch of letters from OW to him (while we were still married), and in one SHE suggested that they tell me about their relationship so we could all be one big happy family because she thought that I liked her…?!?!???!??! DELUSIONAL.

      • My ex moved another woman in with the OW and had and an affair with her under OW’s roof. She had the same though that she and the new AP would be like “sister wives” and could work it out.

        I found out about it when the X committed suicide and I found out what a cluster fuck was happening while one of my daughter’s was living there. I was floored. My kid was exposed to so many things and in so much more danger than I realized and the courts made it absolutely impossible for me to do one thing about it.

        It was a mess.

  • I was thinking about this today. How people who are not Chumps think affairs and cheating go. Like it’s a one and done. You divorce or make up or what ever. There is no understanding of the crap that goes on before and after. I’m divorced since July married 36 years. He has been with the twat for about five years (I had to all the work..he drug his feet..the usual). So about three weeks ago on a Monday I get a call on my cell phone. I did not answer as I did not recognize the number. A few minutes later got a text from the same number with the text telling me that they needed to talk to me about my husband. Attached to that was screen shots from his site along with photos of his splendid nakedness complete with erection and other weirdness. Happy Monday. After realizing that this was not my problem anymore I texted back “not my monkey not my circus anymore.” They texted back. “This is your husband in’t it? He owes me money and if he does not pay me back I will ruin his life.” I wanted to text back “Go for it !” but I blocked instead. Anyway the neverending shit show they bring to your life is depressing.

  • This is an easy one. OW believes she did nothing wrong, so in her opinion there’s no reason she couldn’t ask you for details about XH’s death.

    Now, other people (though not her) might think “I don’t really understand why OP was so upset years ago, but I’ll leave her alone anyway” … but that requires a certain degree of empathy. That type of empathy would, of course, have led her to question whether it was a good idea to destroy someone else’s marriage in the first place, so we’re getting into a chicken/egg situation here.

    It’s also possible that there’s a tinge of performance here: a defiant “I’ll contact OP if I want to, because doing so *proves* to everyone (including myself) that I did nothing wrong and have nothing to be ashamed of”. I get a lot of this from my XW, who often takes principled stances that don’t make sense objectively (in that they end up hurting her own interests), I think simply to convince herself that she has the moral high ground in our relationship.

    • “OW believes she did nothing wrong, so in her opinion there’s no reason she couldn’t ask you for details about XH’s death.”


  • The bullshit translator’s comments very satisfying here. They ring true. FW lived next door with OW in a series and I’ve recently received notes on my front door asking for a “chat.” If said chat includes a baseball bat studded with nails, I’m in.

  • She wants details about his death… from the woman she helped him cheat on… You know, they still manage to surprise me! They way they think is just so disturbing and alien to me, I’ll never really understand it and thank God for that.

    This is just so abnormal. A normal human upon learning that a friend had died might text his widow asking if she’s ok, offering condolences, let me know if I can do anything for you, etc. What kind of psychopath skips all that and just asks for details about the death?

    They think they’re so good at passing for normal but they really aren’t. Once you’re aware of their existence, they’re quite easy to spot.

    • Exactly. It’s not normal to fuck someone’s spouse, so I guess these people can’t do other “normal” stuff, like offer condolences, apologize, and acknowledge that the victims of their abuse might not want to hear from them. Alas, this kind of thinking requires empathy and good character, which cheaters lack.

      My adult kids were extremely offended/saddened when, shortly after D-Day, their dad (the FW) sent them a breezy email that revealed a similar lack of empathy.

      FW seems to have thought his adult kids would shrug off his 3-year double life and years of lies and emotional abuse in the way you might quickly move on after your favorite team doesn’t make it to the playoffs. Nope. They went NC. And now he feels unfairly punished and has threatened all of us with “God’s wrath.”


      • Yeah, Spinach, I get it, same here. They saw this whole scenario play out in their heads of how it would all settle down once the cat was out of the bag and everyone would get on with their previous relationships with one another as if his cheating and marrying the mistress was just a tiny bleep on the radar screen for everyone. Business as usual should resume. We good now?!? Let’s just move on.
        Didn’t work like that and he remains just furious over it years later. They cannot tolerate losing control over anyone, even ppl they don’t even want.
        In his mind he just wanted to “live
        an honest life” he told me ( bahahahahaha!!!) in the open and everyone had to be equally on board with his new and improved life.
        “I have a good relationship with my kids”, he would repeat to me over and over, as if hurting their mom had nary a consequence for him and no connection to the family unit.
        I tried to tell him that was not the way it would go down at all and it would not be in my control to bail him out anymore. He refused to hear me.
        They really are pretty unaware though, what he wanted was more important than what he had on that day, so he went for it, imagining he could get all the ruffled feathers back in order when the dust settled down. Probably even looking forward to that challenge, since they are that level of omnipotent in their own eyes.
        All three kids dread when hearing from him now, even a text is not easy or looked forward to. They don’t recognize him anymore.
        He has a great deal of business acumen to share and the kids don’t trust him enough to even want any of it. They know he doesn’t have their backs, they don’t look towards him for anything.
        I doubt his relationships are even salvageable with them and I think by his acting out with drama, chaos and constant anger, he knows that to be a fact himself now. It’s just isn’t fixable.
        Two of the three kids do an obligatory visit once a year trying to keep some level of peace and he’s mad as a wet hen that didn’t even happen this year. ( because his schmoopie bride invited a 40 year old ‘friend’ that was hitting on my 28 year old son the last visit and he now has a serious gf for the last two years that isn’t ok spending a w/e with that situation and neither is my son. So they backed out of the new year’s w/e when they learned of the friend visit. Their father went ballistic on them and told them they were disingenuous not going when they said they would, lol! (Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!)
        He sees his kids ONE w/e a year now and he lets her invite other ppl to that w/e and sees nothing wrong with that?! Good for my kids for not going along with it. I’m proud of them.
        I think schmoopie would be absolutely thrilled if his kids were not in the picture at all honestly, because it sounds like she may even be a bigger manipulator than he is and that is quite the claim to make. She probably purposely invited this ‘ friend’ to add some hornets to the awkward nest.
        Life would be WAY easier for her to erase his entire past life, she gets all his wealth and complete control over his life, as she’s 15 years his junior and will prob outlive him. His bizarre multiple double and triple lives have not left him in the best of physical or mental health either, always having some kind of surgery or some really bizarre accidents. ( first 4th of July he didn’t spend with us at our beach house, he was fishing with schmoop and was stabbed in the wrist by a stingray, puncturing his radial artery and he nearly bled out before getting to shore and other really really strange accidents after that too I won’t go into, but it sure seems like some level of karma to me!)
        I guess his perfect, honest life is not as happy as he had envisioned it would be.
        So now he has to offload his drama and chaos onto my poor kids, which I would still be getting if I didn’t go gray rock with him.
        We are so very tired of the drama with these people. I almost wish he would just be okay with his life choices and leave us the hell alone now, skipping off into the sunset in his perfect bliss.
        I don’t even wish him harm, I wish he’d just move on completely out of our worlds.
        My kids are still working it through. It sucks, but we have enough love between us to get to the other side of whatever the hell this is. I’m not so sure he’s going to make it out, but it’s always going to be other peoples’ fault, he is the poor misunderstood victim in this saga now.
        *deep sigh*

        • Chumpasaurus45. Your FW is blaming you and now his kids for his unhappiness. FW’s cant take responsibility for their actions, and expect us to don it. When we dont play ball they go ballistic. They just want us to comply, to be under their control. Unfortunately, if your kids want any sort of relationship it will be on his terms. As a child of a FW I gave up long, long ago on a real relationship. Became very independent. I just dont care. I see family minimally, speak minimally. My brother married a control freak woman and her mom is a biatch too. Minimize. I no longer feel bad saying no. I feel no obligation to see them. I have a busy life. When your kids have their own families they wont have time for the nonsense. As time goes on itll get easier. Your Ex will probably pick easier targets. These people need relationship drama. I feel I could be a hermit and be very happy. I dont need relationships and people as much. But these types need others. They are the ones always going after the relationships in any form. Not healthy ones.

        • “They cannot tolerate losing control over anyone, even ppl they don’t even want.”

          Truer words were never spoken.

          “We are so very tired of the drama with these people. I almost wish he would just be okay with his life choices and leave us the hell alone now, skipping off into the sunset in his perfect bliss.”

          Never gonna happen, not with any of them. Some may front being happy, but I’m certain that they are not. You can’t live a dishonorable, selfish chaotic life and expect happiness. It doesn’t work that way.

          • Yeah. I like to think that people of poor character can’t be happy, but who knows? x did move far away and is (for now) leaving me alone, so there’s that.

            Once he figured out that I only respond to any necessary communication with a short, sometimes one-word response, he started to do the same. Lol. He also noticed that I covered up my address on my 1040 (by decree, we have to share the first two pages), so he started to cover up his own address, which I’d already seen on previous correspondence. Weird. I hid mine (and blocked it on spokeo, white pages etc…)bc I was afraid of him and didn’t want to risk having him arrive on my doorstep. Not sure why he hid his. Whatever. Not my circus…

            p.s. Every so often I google my own name and address to see if it’s discoverable. For the average person, it appears to be hidden still. Some computer expert could probably dig deep and discover it. And I’m sure over time it will leak out. Honestly, I don’t care that much now. I’m no longer afraid of him.

        • “They cannot tolerate losing control over anyone, even ppl they don’t even want.”

          This really jumped out at me because it is so true. There were two women among our acquaintances that my ex absolutely hated. I figured they would be safe to leave in my life. One went to a party where he was at, I saw the pictures, and then she blocked me on everything. No idea why. Her and I always got along well and he hated her but ok. The other one I was talking to and she posted something about me on facebook. Next thing I know, he’s at her house doing work for her. She didn’t even respond when I wished her happy birthday. I’m just like ok, he even wants the people he hates. That’s insane.

          • And just to clarify, I know he was at her house because she posted the pictures to facebook. It was so weird. He’s in construction but he hated doing any side work and would refuse and he hated her. But as soon as she mentions me on social media, there he is smiling on facebook doing work on her house. And I’m out. It was just really crazy.

  • “Did he not leave the Excel file? Cross-referenced by perversion? #107. Right there between “denim overalls” and “ass play.”

    On a grotty sofa in a youth hostel, with a needle in his arm. The police suspect his rent boy.

    Peacefully, in his sleep, murmuring “Gloria.” Your name isn’t Gloria? Oh, that must be 117. I misread the Excel file”

    🤣 Spit out my tea laughing.

    Former, I’m not sure what you’re looking for in way of commentary. If it ‘s confirmation that OW is a headcase, you’ve got it. Her bold-faxed gall is astounding. This is a good example of what I mean when I say fuckwits are lacking in emotional intelligence. This bitch actually thought you were going to fill her in on the circumstances of your husband’s death. Wow.

  • “After all, she feels close to you, having slept in your bed” – thanks for the laughter and coffee spitting on a rough morning. Love this UBT.

  • A friend told me about personal experience which taught him a lesson about integrity. He drives for his job in the wee hours when much of the world is asleep. He always stops at stop signs, even if no one else is there. One night, as he was stopped at a four-way stop, even though he believed no other vehicle was around, a tanker truck loaded with gasoline came out of nowhere and ran the stop sign to his left. Had he not stopped at the stop
    sign, he would have become a flattened flaming grease spot. He says it will happen again, and this is why you always do the right thing, even though you think no one else is looking. Integrity is doing the right thing, even when you think no one is looking.

    There is nothing you can do or say that will make someone who knifed you in the back feel regret or remorse. These are people who do whatever they want, ignoring stop signs, thinking they are getting away from it because they don’t see the adverse consequences.

    Giving your integrity away with both hands is not very bright. And when continuing to do so, and the point might be driven home by a gasoline-filled tanker truck running a stop sign at 1:30 am.

    Illicit relationships cost astronomically far more than than they are worth. Let the stupid and the unwise fuck around and find out. Painful as it has been, ultimately I have been relieved of being shackled to a fool.

    • My wonderful attorney said something similar. They’ve corrupted themselves so deeply that you have every right to cut them off as much as possible when the dust settles. If you believe in evil, they have it within. Go on with your integrity and dignity and let them blow up everything around them.

      I still have clueless people on the outskirts of my life who think that I should be friends with my ex. Just no…

    • “Painful as it has been, ultimately I have been relieved of being shackled to a fool.”

      Love this. So true.

      I’m so glad to be free of that mess. And I know that I acted with integrity, so I can hold my head up.

  • Why do we have to be saints? I understand Mr. Chumplady’s sage legal advice in the during phase, but this guy is dead, and the twat that banged her husband in the marital bed is unfortunately still here. Why not have a good friend call the OW and give her a rundown on the terrible candlewax incident? Or better yet on the deadly STD so rare and terrible that he committed suicide to escape. Use a burner phone, wreak havoc and celebrate her discomfort with a few coctails.

    • I think that Mr ChumpLady’s advice is multifaceted. Obv, during the divorce, for sure it benefit’s the chump to “behave” so that nothing they do or say can be held against them. And that advice still works after the divorce is finalized, bc you could be dragged back into a legal battle at any time– like custody arguments etc. I do think if the FW is dead, a lot of those reasons to “behave” fall away. But ultimately, I think reaching out to the OW whether FW is dead or alive, just sort of draws you back in to that shit show. I think the OP absolutely could have responded with some insane cause of death and then blocked the OW. She would have felt pretty good for awhile. But then who knows what the OW might do next? Find her family? Friends? Not engaging is probably always going to be the best route. And frankly, not getting any response is going to drive the OW crazy. So it’s still a win.

      • I agree. Wall off the drama if you can. Minimize any interaction with him or anyone related to him.

        Even three years post-divorce, that’s my policy. He was the type who looked for any little thing to get the upper hand, so I don’t give it to him or anyone that might pass it on. IMHO, even if he’s dead, I’m keeping the wall up.

        I’m living the low-drama life.

  • You are a better person than I am: I’d have fired off a message that FW died of drug-resistant TB or AIDS or advanced syphilis. I wouldn’t have been able to resist the chance.

  • For me the reality is that no one probably ever knew the real Ex(s). They were who they wanted to act like from moment to moment and person to person. I actually felt relief when they died, because it meant I would never hear from either one again. Schmoopie(s) didn’t know him either. You really don’t owe anyone an explanation for your feelings, or anything you may happen to know about how an ex passed. My children do not understand why I am not friendly to their dad’s ex-wife now that he’s dead. I tried to explain she was not my friend before he died, so why would my feelings change? They think I was somehow jealous of her. On the contrary, I felt she was always stupid, and never really comprehended what she got into. I’m sorry, but I cannot be friends with stupid folks. I know it’s not their fault, but I just have no patience. Ignorance can be cured, but stupid is a lifelong condition.

    Funerals and memorials are actually for the living, IMHO. I have never liked the rituals associated with death in our culture. I try to show respect, and get thru funerals I feel I must attend, for the living folks. You mourn or not in your own way, I don’t believe anyone can tell you how to feel. It’s been over a year since my son’s father passed. I can remember good times the family had when my children bring them up. I can tell funny stories about their dad. He was not completely bad to his sons, and they have no basis of comparison because they never had another father figure. The last ex was short lived, and they did not ever think of him as “dad”. My sons are entitled to their own feelings and memories.

    For your own protection, and welfare, it is good to know the law with regard to any benefits of being married to your ex. That also is no one’s business but your own. Schmoopie(s) will have to bark up a different tree to get any information about anything about the ex. If they must find centrality somewhere, there is usually a talkative lunatic relative somewhere in everyone’s family. Most of their information is incorrect, but they usually love gossip and are only capable of shallow relationships anyway. Seems perfect for an inquiring Schmoops who thinks she is more important than she really is.

    I no longer waste any of my time if I can avoid it. I believe I wasted too much of my precious time earlier in my life, and I want to enjoy what’s left. Delete. No Contact. No problem!

  • First of all I think its great for you that your FW died. I hope it gives you peace. Its amazing how OW feel ownership over us. Like we are all in this together. They think they are close to us because FW tells them about us. We know nothing about them and they know everything about us. At least they think they do because FW lies. I too got the, you both would get along so well, you are alot alike. Aside from liking FW and falling for his lies we are nothing alike. So very different in many ways. But to FW all women are interchangeable. Not sure why FW says these things to us. To try and humanize the OW? Are they just that clueless? Or is it a NPD script? They all do and say the exact same things? This was timely post because I have been thinking alot about FW dying, and how it wouldve been so great if he had just died of cardiac disease like so many men of years past. There are so many widows who husbands die. Some may have had good men, some no. But if not it would give those women peace. A few last peaceful years not having to deal with FW enjoying grandchildren. But we dont have that anymore now that stents were invented and men smoke less. Its a shame! If I am lucky enough to outlive FW, I will probably go to the funeral to support the kids. I would also love to interact with all the OW. I would love to see how many there are. I would assume they would come up to me to introduce themselves because they just would not be able to help themselves. I would love to see what they would say! I guess maybe I am at meh, because this seems entertaining to me.

    • I would say you are not at meh, Chumpolicious, for the fact you would welcome someone coming up to you at a funeral that was involved with your ex to hear what they have to say to you. Entertaining, maybe, but nothing positive to be gained there.
      I imagine meh being you don’t care AT ALL what they have to say!! Because you will be above and beyond caring at that point. It’s a hard place to get to, I know!
      These FW’s treated us horrendously. There are no excuses for the hurt they inflicted on their families. Nothing at all will make that okay.
      But, I still don’t think wishing anyone dead is in anyone at all’s best interest.
      They’ve already destroyed all the good in their lives, that’s worse than death in my mind. They’ve killed their own souls, any genuine goodness that was in them is no longer visible to those who really know what is actually going on.
      They can have a superficial life that may appear to be going just awesome to the surface viewers and admirers who don’t really know them, but you don’t destroy others and walk away unmarred.
      There are consequences to actions and they won’t be coming from us.
      They will pay a price for what they did. I truly believe it absolutely affects their lives every single day they live, whether we see it happen or not.
      Inflicting as much pain on someone else as they’ve inflicted on us, or wishing some evil will befall them, would only lower us to their level, a place we should never want to find ourselves in.
      I do understand the anger, I’m still mad as hell at what my ex FW did to my family. Heartless, unjustified and cruel.
      The goal I envision in my mind, is to rise above the hurt, the abuse, the trauma they inflicted and seek to make the most good we can out of a pretty rotten hand of cards.
      To help our kids, if we have them in our lives, find a way to care about people, to trust, and to really love genuinely.
      That will be success to me.
      I don’t have control over his choice to blow up his life and I no longer care to try.
      He made his choices, he will live and die with them.
      That’s where the road to meh lies, in no longer caring about the outcome or wanting to seek revenge or justice.
      We just are going to be too damn busy living our beautifully free lives to ever care about who else they are destroying.

  • I was advised to ignore instead of block as much as possible, so FW’s emails are auto-filed to a folder that is rarely looked at. The last FW email was either sent by accident or a very low effort fishing expedition. *laugh* *delete*

  • Just text her: FW passed of complications from previously undiagnosed syphillis

    Then laugh and laugh and laugh…

  • Loopy Schmoopie tried to contact me via social media (before I knew her name & blocked her) to “stop trying to contact your husband”. I wanted to reply back “excuse me bitch, I’ll contact MY husband whenever I want”! He ran away scared to her house to hide out after d-day. But I pressed my fingernails into my palms hard & didn’t respond….because how fucked up is that to get a message like that from someone?! Especially a spouse’s fuckbuddy! I would never have the capacity to forgive the OW for all that she has done (the FW either), so she can scream until the cows come home, I’ll never lower myself to speak or listen to such a low-down snake! I’m perfectly happy that way too!

  • Thank you CL!!!!! As always the UBT did not disappoint! 🙂 And you’re right, I should have moved on long before he passed. But when we know better, we do better, yes? And better is eventually what I was able to do. Once I had a solid foundation in my own recovery and the hopium wore off I asked him to move out and we were moving toward separation when he passed. This was not the first lovely attempt of an OW to reach out to me…the first message came from a long time Schmoopie shortly after he passed blaming me for his alcoholism and his death….I’ll admit that one sent me spinning for a bit. After that shock wore off, I accepted the reality that for every secret that had been unearthed while he was alive, there were probably triple that number that he took to his grave…that radical acceptance prepared me for just about anything!

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