My Cheater Doesn’t Feel Sorry, He Just Feels ‘Bad’
Dear Chump Lady,
I just had a conversation with my cheating husband. He now admits to at least a part of what he did, although he still maintains that there was no emotional affair. They just had a secret “friendship” for 20 plus years. The name Sexy Beast was just a joke, yada, yada…
He says he doesn’t feel sorry for any of it. He just feels bad. What could he possibly mean aside from feeling the loss of his kibbles? I can’t wrap my head around his response!
We are still living together and it is very tense. I am ready to check in with my attorney to see if the ducks are in the row. Younger me would have been gone by now. Older smarter me listens to my lawyer. But I do wonder what kind of “bad” cheaters feel.
Yours,
Linda2
***
Oh Linda2, I can’t pretend to be inside the head of every sorry-not-sorry cheater to know what they feel. (Nothing? Peckish? Mildly annoyed?) But you do point to a very common phenomena — this whole I Don’t Regret the Affair, I Regret People Were Hurt bullshit.
HuffPo runs one of these narcissistic fluff pieces every week. The affair? It was magical. They explored undiscovered corners of their soul! They laughed…they cried…they loved! But lest they look completely inhuman, the cheater throws out a few little kibbles of “remorse.” Yes, the little people were hurt. That was regrettable. But the chump now understands the cheater’s paramount need for happiness, and they’ve forged a friendship. So don’t judge them! When the goal is happiness (who can fault happiness?), you’ve got to break a few eggs to make a happy omelet.
Try this logic on something else and see how it fares.
I don’t regret defrauding investors. (You should see my yacht!) I regret that they feel hurt.
I’m not sorry I molested choir boys, I just feel bad (that I’m under indictment).
I love money, so I mugged that old lady, (I bought these awesome shoes!) I regret she feels pistol-whipped.
So let’s put your husband’s “EA” through the Universal Bullshit Translator.
He says he doesn’t feel sorry for any of it.
Apparently you are unaware of everything he’s been up to. So he did NOTHING! And if he did nothing? Why there is nothing to be sorry about! You’re just making a big deal out of nothing! Demanding apologies when apologies are not warranted.
He has a friend who calls him “Sexy Beast.” So what? Don’t you have friends who call you funny names like Twinkle Toes and Apple Cheeks? Same thing.
Just because he kept his friendship hidden for 20 years is nothing to get upset about. You wouldn’t understand, so he didn’t tell you. Your dim-wittedness and lack of understanding is nothing HE should apologize to YOU about. I’m sorry you’re not more sophisticated.
He feels bad he has to explain his friendship to you. It’s exhausting. He feels bad that you might levy some sort of undeserved consequences on his innocent friendship.
You should feel bad for making him feel bad!
Poor sausage. He feels BAD.
But not sorry, because only people who Do Bad Things apologize. But he’s blameless!
Linda2 — are you connecting the dots here? He’s mindfucking you. Manipulation doesn’t spring out of feelings, it comes from Machiavellian self-interest. So stop asking yourself what he’s feeling and start paying attention to what he is doing — not taking responsibility for his actions. Not apologizing.
So long as he’s continuing to snow you about his 20-year secret relationship, you’ve got nothing to work with. Please line those ducks up with the lawyer soonest.
Feeing Peckish. Bwahaha
Did he literally say he’s not sorry? Uhhhhhhhh. Glad OP is in process of leaving, yikes.
My FW turned inward immediately after it came out. I’m in bathroom dry heaving on floor with son (who heard me crying and came in) while FW found his gun and handed it to me when I came out. He turned the worst moment of my life into a rescue mission. I had to grab the gun before he did something awful with kids in house, instead of focusing on breathing and not passing out.
Apologies started but were contingent. “I’m sorry you’re hurt”-BUT I’m hurt too
“I’m sorry you found out”-BUT it was better when you didn’t know
“I’m sorry about what I did”-BUT I felt lonely
“I’m sorry I cheated”-BUT it wasn’t emotional, they didn’t mean anything
“I’m sorry about who I became”-BUT I’m not that person anymore
Apologies became more specific over time, and then ego centric. “I’m sorry I’m so worthless”. It was a cue for me to defend him against himself. Wtf! No
I got “I wont apologize for falling in love”
::::eyeroll:::: ::::Facepalm:::
One of mine tried to tell me what falling in love feels like.
I cut him off. I’ve got no time for that bs.
That actually cracks me up. I was married to a psychopath for 20 years. They mirror so well it really does feel like you’ve found your soul mate. I was young so that I thought that must be what love feels like. It’s not. LOL We were both single though so I wasn’t harming anyone else by falling in love with a psycho, just myself.
I just read Jen Waite’s book about her husband cheating on her and I found it annoying that she waited until nearly the end of the book to admit that he had a live in girlfriend of several years and she knew that when she started sleeping with him. The girlfriend kicked him out because he was screwing Jen. But then I cracked up. She cheated on her boyfriend to be with this psychopath who destroyed her. She was ok with helping him cheat on his girlfriend so she could get the psychopath who would screw up her life. It’s hilarious. Now when I hear a cheater talk about “soul mates” it makes me laugh because they’re probably going to get what they deserve. It feels like true love, it’s not. LOL
The AP sent me a message saying her & my husband were “soulmates”. I just laughed & didn’t respond. Since she’s been married 3x & her last guy (before Fuckwit) was common-law, I think her definition of soulmate is rather loose & fleeting. My ex is definitely going to get what he deserves lol
Good point. I think her story is selling only because she’s also beautiful to look at.
I mean, I do think he’s a psycho. A lot of the things he did and said are very similar to what my ex did and said. It was eerie to read. It’s like they all have the same playbook. But she knew he was cheating on someone else with her right from the start so it’s like, I don’t really feel sorry for her. She thought it was fine to do to another woman and then a woman comes along and does the same to her and she’s all outraged. Well… now she knows what she did to other people. But I don’t think that understanding is there because she’s still making excuses and justifying it. I think she’s a regular cheater (which is a shitty person) and he’s a psychopathic cheater. At least decent humans were spared by the two of them being together.
“I’m sorry you found out but it was better when you didn’t know.”
These are the non-apologies that get me the most here. Like this is basically them telling on themselves. Um, no shit it was better for them when you didn’t know because that’s the point, deception. They wanted you not to know so they could eat cake. This is such a pointless thing to say. I’m sure they mean something like “Ohhh I’m sorry you have been hurt by this knowledge, but it was so necessary and important to me that I cheat because I had to for -insert stupid excuse reason here- that it was ok, even necessary, that you not know. Finding out was only hurting yourself really…”
But for real this is just their indirect way of saying “I’m not sorry I did it, not sorry I hurt you, I’m just sorry I got caught.”
Whenever I hear that someone’s cheater says something along those lines my eyes roll so hard they’re spinning like billiard balls down the pool table.
Kara, you are so right. Its always some indirect way of making everything they do your fault. When “BUT” is used in an apology, it becomes a non-apology. I took me way to long to figure this out. Fuckwits take responsiblity for nothing because they are locked in childhood and never grow up.
I got told, after d day that it was ok to be second best, in fact 2nd best was actually better (!) I was completely fooled, this fw looked like he had a relatively normal life, but I found out later his parents were bank rolling a significant part of it. I thought this is insane, and chumps – no offence to anyone with a mental illness, but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it’s a duck. He had serious issues. I didn’t want to believe how bad the situation was, and my brain still hurts when I think about the manipulative bullshit that was fed to me, but I would recommend to anyone, the first sign of any nonsense get out. I did not and I regret the time I wasted on someone who did not deserve me. Every second.
The trickle truth may be the most evidence chumps ever get. It confirms a reason for the churning gut and sense of impending doom.
If you took out a huge loan, paid a contractor to make a large addition to your home and then you saw moisture and cracks and electrical shorts, you’d want a complete explanation. Immediately. The contractor’s “feelings” are irrelevant. Your family’s safety and budget require honesty and action.
Document and see a lawyer.
Linda2,
Who cares what a cheater tells you? Stop thinking that his words have actual meaning. They do not have any meaning at all. Sexy Beast is trying to manipulate you. Don’t give him that power!!!!!
As to living with him, I suggest you talk to your lawyer some more. I was in a house with a FW for too long. I talked to my lawyer and was much more stern about the fact I wanted FW gone and we were able to make it happen. You do NOT have to stay in this situation especially if it is impacting your health. You deserve better.
Even if you have this in house separation, you are not required to talk to him about anything other than business. Don’t have a conversation with a FW. Not worth your time.
Be strong, get the paperwork moving. try to get FW out or move out yourself. Get yourself free from abuse.
Linda,
My initial response to the question “what kind of ‘bad’ do Cheaters feel?” would have been “who cares … f*ck the lot of them.” But on reflection, the only things that Cheaters feel bad about are being busted (they hate being exposed for who they really are) and consequences (because those are for other people and not them …. because they are special and, therefore, think that they should be consequence free). Make of that what you will.
LFTT
PS – you are right about listening to your lawyer …. let them guide you.
I can’t wait for the podcast! I didn’t get an apology at all. I didn’t even get an I FEEL BAD. I got “Perhaps you weren’t listening” meaning I was somehow suppose to pick up on the fact that his lies meant he was cheating. I also got “I’m sorry you feel this way” and then “This is all your fault” because, you know, it was my fault he cheated. You can’t make this shit up.
Love your comment FormerlyKnownAs, It was the AP that told me I would never get an apology and the whore was right. I stopped waiting for his decency to kick in.
Maybe this was already a Friday challenge, I am not sure, but it would be hilarious to revisit – how did we chumps MAKE them cheat?
I forced the fuckwit to cheat by not losing the baby weight fast enough, so he “deserved” (barf!) to have something for himself. Now I thank GOD for those extra lbs to be rid of him!
Mine said “I never wanted to be with a fat chick!” (I was 130 lb.) He then proceeded to cheat on me with a woman at least 50 lb heavier than me. Go figure. His other “reason” was that I didn’t “put him to sleep” with a BJ every night. I guess OW did?
I am relieved to be single and never “have to” give anyone a BJ ever again.
You are free!!!!
Mine used my weight as an excuse while he was literally cheating with women who weighed HUNDREDS of pounds more than me. When i saw the first 400 pounder it was a shock. The same week he told me to stop wearing thong underwear because it was an embarrassment he was complimenting her on how beautiful she was in her thong. Really drove home how it wasn’t me, it was him though.
No to butt floss. Too many urinary tract infections. And your ex KP is an abusive p.o.s.
You are better off without that dude!
Oh dear god! That’s so abusive😢 I’m sorry.
I didn’t get one either, just blame and insults.
No apology here either. He launched directly into the typical “ you’re not perfect either.” I have never looked for perfection in anything. I’m a realist. I sat there while he stood, with a snake eye stare and hate by the door to escape, and 100% agreed that I was not perfect and begin listing all my perceived imperfections which after years of therapy I know I’m normal. anyone who knows me would never imply, say the things to me or about me or treat me way he did because they are lies. He’s disordered. He walked out without a word.
Good riddance to bad rubbish. You are a queen!
A correction to what happened. He did say, “ I was never going to leave you” as he walked out. What a strange thing to say. Now I know he wanted it all.
I got a version of that as well. Basically saying we could have stayed married if I could cope better with his cheating. It was like I was just so old fashioned to be mad about all the deception.
Yes, FormerlyKnownAs, I was told I was a prude for objecting to FW sleeping around. These people are just con artists.
Holy shit sandwich!
I, too, never got an apology or even an owning up to the facts. In fact, I never heard directly from Asshat after I found out about the string of women.
I heard a through the lawyer that Asshat tried his bully tactics (to no avail) and via a mutual friend that the affair was “not a long term thing” (he is now married to the AP and has a kid).
“I Don’t Regret the Affair, I Regret People Were Hurt bullshit”
Yup. FW pretty much said the same thing: “I’m not sorry I feel in love; I’m just sorry about how it happened.”
FW never apologized. She could not wait to get out. Yes there was some trickle truth, But as far as the affair goes, or should I say affairs, she never really admitted anything. Pet names and emails found that were incriminating were dismissed as”Oh that was a joke”. She was just all about damage control and did a pretty damn good job on that front destroying my reputation.
The 2 year anniversary of Dday is at the end of this month. My current opinion about cheaters is that they just care about themselves. The hurtful actions to the chump are secondary to their self serving goals. They just want to get what they want and it doesn’t matter what gets blown up. At times I find most chumps think “why did he/she do this to me?” My answer to that question currently is it wasn’t about you. It was them serving themselves and they really don’t care about you. Their primary focus is their own satisfaction and joy. To hold the idea that cheaters think about the chump in a positive or negative way gives them some type of empathy and more credit than they deserve. They are narcissists. Callous, heartless and self centered broken people. Sad to think all the time I wasted trying to figure out the “why” of what they did. Now I will deal with the anger of how I missed seeing how flawed the cheater was
I agree. It’s really just about sucking out your energy. You’re just a host for their parasitic existence.
Great observation DC: My answer to that question currently is it wasn’t about you.
Mr. Sparkles is getting married for the third time at the end of this month. He had been with the new GF (now fiance) for less than two years when I discovered his personal ad on Ashley Madison. In his ad he expressly stated, “I’m not looking to change mine or anyone else’s situation, I just want to feel alive and fill in what’s missing.” That was four years ago… and still he’s going to walk down the aisle. Why would he marry her when he knows he’ll never be faithful to her? It has nothing to do with her… or me… or the ones who came before me. It is who he is – like the scorpion and frog parable… it’s just in his nature.
DrChump, Yes, I think your current thought about cheaters is right. It’s strange to realize after DDay, and then on and on after your own truth about them trickles in, how alien they really are. My former husband became a stranger; the alien part being how they operate in the world and go through life all about themselves, but also, at such a superficial level. Alien being. That’s how I think of him now. What is a little alarming to me, and now what I’m trying to get clear on, is how I projected normalcy onto him. Yes, he was tricking me very well, but I want to get really good now at recognizing these alien beings among us and never project my own caring ways onto them again.
“What is a little alarming to me, and now what I’m trying to get clear on, is how I projected normalcy onto him.”
We project onto them the same way they project onto us, except we project humanity and a soul onto them, and they project their bad behaviors onto us. The thing we have to learn is to take people at face value and judge them by their actions, rather than always thinking of the best case scenario, assuming good motives, and making excuses for them.
Of course! The words for that projection here are sparkle and hopium! Guilty for YEARS of both!!! I forgot the wonderful terms that so beautifully sum up all that projection. Guilty, guilty, guilty! I always wanted love… that’s at the bottom of it, isn’t it.
Auto correct: not sparkle (sparkly turd is another great one). No, of course I meant spackle. Autocorrect likes sparkle better, keeps changing it.
We all talk about how FWs lack empathy. So they don’t understand what they did on a real level…. only consequences. And that only makes FWs angry at chumps. Not remorseful.
FWs aren’t sorry. The end.
Yep, my daughter is currently home sick from school. This weekend she is scheduled to go to her dad’s. He asked me to take her this weekend. He uses his new wife’s kids as an excuse not to take care of her during his custody time. I did it once when she had the flu this fall. He failed to leave work to be with his daughter when she was admitted to the hospital this spring for IV antibiotics (oral rX weren’t working fast enough), even though it was his custody time. I had to leave work so she could get treatment authorized quickly (he had sent his wife w/my daughter to get checked out). I called him out on his pattern of not taking care of his daughter when she’s sick. His reply? “I don’t appreciate that accusation.” Guess what buddy, I don’t appreciate that behavior from someone that insisted on 50/50 custody (biggest regret agreeing to). If he doesn’t want to expose his step kids to what my daughter has, their mother and bio dad and he can figure out an arrangement. His step kids aren’t my custody concern.
Curlychump, you may need to visit your attorney and revisit the custody arrangement because he is violating it. I’m so sorry.
Sorry replied to wrong comment.
True, and they don’t fear consequences because they think they are special and consequences are for other people, besides they are too smart to get caught.
Us regular peons don’t do crappy things in large part because of our character, but also because we fear consequences such as financial, being shunned, jail etc.
In their mind they’ve done nothing wrong. Their cheating was justified, therefore consequences don’t pertain to them. They’re not like the everyday, cheater. They didn’t do anything wrong. It isn’t cheating when it’s justified. They’re actually the victim who suffered in silence for years…
Feeling “sad” would imply empathy for the devastation he caused you. Feeling “bad” merely indicates self-pity at the loss of his gratification aka kibbles.
He feels no sadness at the world of pain he caused you. Let that sink in. It’s hard to even comprehend. As Kelly Bundy used to say, “The mind wobbles.”
I’m convinced the great majority of serial cheaters are sociopaths to one degree or another.
Nomar, yes. I am also convinced that serial cheaters are narcs and those are sociopaths. How else to explain the patterns, repetition, predictability…we cannot assign them normal behavior in any range.
Disturbed individuals cannot regulate their emotions. The have a deep blackness in their soul.
They will not change for Schmoopie.
This 👆👆👆It’s an important distinction… the words “to you” change the meaning entirely. My cheater sobbed and ugly cried for about 12 months and at one point came up with the lame “I know I did a terrible thing”. I was dumbfounded. It wasn’t just one thing and it wasn’t just terrible in some abstract sense or generally, say as in “terrible weather”. It was many terrible, seriously appalling and devastatingly damaging things, not just to anyone or randoms or anonymous people or inanimate objects either. He did them specifically and only TO ME. He appeared to have no ability to understand the horrific shit he did and how I was traumatically affected by it. He could not allow or admit that I had been hurt BY HIM. He was so busy minimizing and distancing with his passive voice language while positioning overtly as if he was the victim by appropriating my pain and presenting it as if he was so upset about it all. He wasn’t. It’s so insane what they do and say when caught.
In the beginning, FW kept saying, “What can I say? I’m a bad person.” I told him to knock that s**t off. He was trying to make it so that he had no responsibility because he was “bad” and so couldn’t help himself. F that.
We had a saying during my divorce that my attorney coined, “He has no empathy and no regard for the law.”
Yup.
I agree.
You just can’t be normal and pull the crap my ex pulled. Not just against me but against others he constantly lied to and manipulated.
For instance, he convinced his mother to move in to one of our small rental houses, and we said she could live there as long as she wanted. She sold her trailer and lived there for about 3 5 years before Dday. Now he knew he was fucking everything in sight, and he knew our marriage was doomed, but he was still lying to me because he needed my service in the community/politics to get to his goal.
So when his house of cards fell and the time for D settlement came, he had the audacity to call me and tell me we (meaning he and I) promised his mother she could live there. He learned quickly that legally he could not break a contract with me, and yet expect me to abide by all decisions I made under said contract.
So he blew up his mothers life, my life, caused his employer huge issues avoiding a lawsuit etc. All to service his dick.
On a related note, I’ve been watching Broadchurch on PBS. In Season One a small community learns a local husband and father had an intimate relationship with, and then murdered, an 11 year old boy.
The horror and dawning realization by his wife that life will never be the same, that she didn’t really know her husband and that she’d have to pick up ALL the pieces reminded me of D-day.
In Season Two, the murderer pleads “not guilty” denying the victim’s family, his own family and the community of any step toward healing. Every resource and remaining bit of energy will be put toward untangling the skein.
I am in awe that so many chumps navigate the assault of cheating, without sympathy or support. The juxtaposition of unacknowledged grief and unallowed anger is horrific.
I’ve flipped by that show and thought about watching it and I did not realize that’s what it was about. Oh wow, I may have to watch that.
Great series with Olivia Colman and David Tennant 👍🏻
“I didn’t mean to hurt you.”
Well you (deceiver) clearly didn’t intend to NOT hurt me. And you can’t UN-hurt me now after the act is done. Therefore, any lack of premeditated intent on your part is essentially irrelevant.
You did a hurtful thing.
You hid it because you knew it would be hurtful to do it openly and I wouldn’t agree to it. This lying about the thing was also hurtful.
That’s a lot of predictable hurtfulness, regardless of whether it was planned or targeted toward me specifically, or just the result of general apathy about hurting me.
Therefore, it’s reasonable and equivalent for me to refrain from offering you (deceiver) any concern about how you’re feeling. Your lack of concern for my well-being set the stage, and now your well-being should be equally deprioritized. That’s reasonable.
You feel bad, Deceiver? Whatevs. I’m too busy adulthumaning to attend to your childassholing.
The POS-also ex told me that he didn’t mean to hurt me, that in fact, he was only protecting me from being hurt. You see, he loved me that much. That’s after the trickle truth slowwllyyy revealed that he had cheated on me our entire 32 year relationship. Didn’t really admit to much, even with some evidence I found. Darvo all the way after that. I wanted a separation and he refused, saying that separations should only happen when both partners wanted to separate. He wanted us to stay married (and continue cheating) and for me to shut the f@$k up. Needless to say, I left. After that, it was as if I never existed, he refused to acknowledge me if I saw him in the street in our small town or when we had to communicate regarding our teens. He immediately filed for divorce, then stalled it for 3 plus years when I retained a lawyer. He did talk to me when it suited him though – resorted to using the 3 channels on me into firing my lawyer – he realized he would have to pay me spousal support and he had expected to walk away with a divorce in hand and no consequences. That I would just roll over and play dead. The cognitive dissonance I experienced was unreal. They simply don’t care and I am convinced that their is a sociopathic element at play with cheaters.
“I didn’t mean to hurt you”
Translated?
“Cheating is OK because what they don’t know won’t hurt them and they’ll never know.”
So true, VH.
I just recently learned about syphilitic dementia, which results from untreated syphilis and appears many years after initial infection. And as some people have very mild symptoms and never realize they even have syphilis, it’s just another way cheaters could be murdering or otherwise destroying us. As if the cancer and severe complex trauma weren’t murdery enough.
F every one of them.
After I asked for a separation, my ex took off to the beach to reinvent himself and pursue life the way he wanted it, which apparently didn’t include marriage and family from what I found out later. He sent us beach pictures that he thought would somehow make us happy for him. Really?
There were other twisted messes with his family because he decided to play it like I had refused to follow him in his dreams. Except he never really involved me in choosing where he’d settle and the place he rented. He furnished it the way he liked, not taking into account our preferences and what we had already. Oh, and the college kids should quit their specialized programs so we can all go to the beach like the old days when they were little. That would make life complete.
If he had been upfront and said, “Hey, I want to be a single retired man near the beach, so let’s divorce amicably so I can follow that dream,” I would have gotten it. I think the college kids might have even wanted to go visit. Instead, it was blame-and-game followed by a high-conflict divorce. He wasn’t sorry, just furious that I didn’t follow his script. Even his attorney told him, “Get a life and let it go.”
And he ended up with an ex-wife and adult kids who want nothing to do with him. But the beach…we should be happy for him.
Elsie, I’m hoping that he goes for a swim and disappears into a riptide and becomes Mr. Sharky’s lunch.
These assholes spend their lives trying to avoid negative feelings, and so the best they can muster is “bad”. Expecting them to feel or understand the pain they caused you is asking far too much. What do their feelings mean? At this point, who cares? They sure as hell didn’t consider yours for one instant. This figuring things out about the cheater is lumped in with the whole floor dropping out from under you as to who these people really were, as other posters have said. You are looking at this person like they are still the human you married. Hell, like they’re human at all. They are unstable, lizard-brained creatures chasing good feelings and rainbows, everyone else be damned. But the fact that it feels like something out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers makes the whole thing a grade A mindfuck for the chump.
I so appreciate the Invasion of the Body Snatchers reference. I call FW a pod person. He looks like the guy I married and loved but he’s an alien creature just wearing his face.
Actually, what he was probably thinking was: “I feel bad but now that you know, we’re good. Right?” As in, you be you and I’ll be me, extra friend and all. I think he’s trying to change the nature of the marriage by eating his cake and having it too. CL’s most useful and important response to this situation is always a question for all of us to ask ourselves: Is this relationship acceptable to you?” No one needs an attorney for this. It’s a personal decision that may need to be sorted out in counseling or by reading the article and comments on this website, article by painful article. The cheaters feelings are clear to me, he doesn’t care.
By the way, the cheater covered up a “friendship” with someone who calls him “sexy beast” for 20 years. He isn’t going to give up that “friendship.” No matter what he says. The author will never be able to trust him again when he goes on household errands alone, when he is supposed to drop the kids off somewhere, when he says he is going to work or on a business trip, when she goes out anywhere alone. Nope. She will never trust him to leave her sight and that is the worst part of all of this for those of us dumb enough to keep thinking we can make our fucked up and fucked over marriages work. To me, this is not acceptable.
I stopped worrying about FW’s feeeeelings the morning I first confronted him. He’d cut me off sexually for over two decades at that point, and then justified his cheating by asking with incredulity “Did you think I was celibate???” In fact I did; I thought he was an alcoholic who hated sex, so I answered “yes” and he responded “But how would that have been FAIR to MEEEEE?”
The day I worry about his feelings, I want you all to have me committed to an institution. You have my permission.
Fuckwit never apologized. I had to force an apology non-apology out of him. He screamed “sorry” at me and said he would not apologize again. He wanted to know why I couldn’t understand that in that moment that is what he felt like doing (cheating)
Wait WTF!!!!
When I finally opened my eyes and saw who he really was, there was no turning back. I cut him out of my life, despite him threatening and begging me not to do so.
I was also not sorry.
I can relate very much to this and also have cut him out despite his tears and sad begging. It has been an effort to turn down my natural response to tears and need by seeing through it. Normally if someone is crying and saying they love me, my first response is to feel like reassuring them and helping them and being there. That’s what I did for sixteen years despite all the nasty rages (other channel). I have made lots of progress seeing through the manipulation and I never respond in any way to his intermittent efforts to break through my blocks (like using the phone of another sucker or using a newly created email address). I have the urge to write something back like “I no longer care.” Or, “I’ve seen who you are now”, etc. But, I don’t go there. What good would it do? He cannot possibly understand me and never did, I found out the hard way. So, no more generosity of heart, of mind, of soothing, of any drop of love. I’m such a warm loving person. That’s why I was such a good mark for him. I’m such an honest person too. I can’t believe these people prefer such meaningless and chaotic games over true love. And all those years that’s what I thought we had and I thought he… well, was an entirely different person. Where do they learn to be such good actors?! Or was I just really stupid? Probably a bit of both. Chump meet con man.
Great book to read “the sociopath next door”. This book doesn’t explain how to deal with people like that or set boundaries, but it may describe some people you recognize.
Yet another illustration of why going ‘no contact’ with a cheater is critical. They don’t use language to communicate, they use it to manipulate. They imagine what they think you want to hear – or what they read on a Hallmark card once – whatevs… and they play it back to you. They are puddle deep on the empathy scale. Don’t engage.
No contact can be done while parenting with a fuckwit, too. I’ve been doing it since 2016. It means I don’t engage in emotionally fueled conversations with Mr. Sparkles any longer (afterall, he’s unarmed – ha!). I use email as the primary communication vehicle. I use simple, factual words (Child support is past due. Camp fees are due on Tuesday)… and scheduling software makes sure all events, holidays, whatnot are fully available (though cheaters repeatedly struggle to use it though they can master having multiple online dating site profiles, go figure). And should I ever need to go back to court, I have documentation – which Mr. CL recommends because judges love it.
As for “he feels bad”… he doesn’t. It really is that simple. Lights may be on, but no one is home (unless you have kibbles).
Me: You don’t seem to have any remorse.
Him: Remorse and humility are not part of the personality I’m trying to cultivate.
(This is a direct quote.)
I laughed out loud at this, LotusDancer. Everything the ex said after DDay had precisely the same ‘tone of voice’ as your FW. ‘Bumptious’ is the word for it. ‘It’s my right to be me and I am going to rub your nose in my right to be me at every opportunity.’ It shouts out ‘I’m immature, I’m insecure’. My Italian male hairdresser (now one of my closest friends), used to cut my and the ex’s hair. He described the ex as the ‘Grand Bambino’ even before DDay. Babies are bumptious because they have no choice but to be. It’s isn’t such a good look in a man in his mid-50s.
I have a similar quote from mine.
Me – You’re still abusing me. Everything you’re doing right now is abuse.
Him – My program taught me not to cheat on you. It didn’t teach me to stop abusing you entirely. I’d need a whole other program for that.
Ewww
CL podcast = prayers answered! Yay!
It took me a while to learn to completely ignore anything that came out of his mouth unless it was independently verifiable. While inside the relationship, I was evidently giving way too
much credence to his words and not nearly enough to his actions. So of course, after DDay, I looked for the words I wanted to hear like a drowning person looks for a lifeboat after the torpedo sinks the ship. Looking at his actions hurt too much to look at, which intensified the need for the words I wanted to hear.
One day it dawned on me that his words meant nothing and never had. He used them to manipulate, not communicate. I was then freed from my desire to talk to him unless absolutely necessary. I told him, more than once, that I do not believe anything he says unless it can be verified. How he feels can’t be verified.
Then I realized that even his actions aren’t a reliable indicator of anything. His actions are manipulative too.
I got very gradually accustomed to FIGURING HIM OUT and having to figure out what was going on as opposed to the solid ground of sincerity. It reminds me of when I was on a hike in Waimea Canyon on Kauai and suddenly realized on the side of a cliff that it was not solid ground under my feet but years of dropped foliage that had built up.
He loves this quote, “mean what you say, say what you mean, and don’t say it mean.” Does he actually do that? Has he ever? Nope. His latest manipulative impression management game is listening to TED talks about improving your communication in the car while driving daughter home. She sees right through it and laughs about it.
Once you find out they are a liar, don’t waste your precious time and energy listening to anything they say. Just ask them to show you the money.
“Then I realized that even his actions aren’t a reliable indicator of anything. His actions are manipulative too.”
Yes! Thank you for putting this into words. Something that always bothers me is when people say “Watch what they do, not what they say” and “True remorse is in actions”. But actions can also be manipulative!
I just spoke with my therapist about this last week. Because my STBXFW is so good at doing and saying the “right” things that are slapped on top of abusive behavior. So watching what he says and does isn’t helpful to figuring him out because those same actions and words can change in a moment or are often times used to hide abusive behavior.
Right?
It’s actually the true ABSENCE of harmful actions, like lying, knowingly doing things that cause harm, breaking agreements, etc. that tells the tale of who someone is.
Watching for harmful actions is what I do now, as opposed to deeming someone safe and trustworthy because of the nice things they do…that any con artist worth his salt is very good at doing…..
As for how cheaters feel? I think the only feelings they are aware of and are concerned about are the ones associated with their genitals.
I love that you’re doing a podcast! Not only do your wise & spicy words guide me to level-up and not tolerate poor & abusive treatment by intimate partners, but it translates over to every part of my life too: family, friends & co-workers! I wish you great success & are able to reach more people that need to hear those wise & spicy words! <3
I hope this woman did full “leave a cheater, gain a life.” I was over 60 when I started gaining a life, and it was really worth the effort.
Very encouraging to 59.5 me. Thank you!
I was 70!!
Fuckface lived a double life for 10+ years. He’s an evil sociopath with zero empathy. After dday, he faked remorse – tears and all. He said all the luring, charming phrases he used to hook me in to begin with – but now I saw who he really was…and it was horrifying! A monster.
They are ALL the same. And who gives a fuck how they feel?? Because they CAN’T feel. They aren’t human. They can’t bond to or care about anyone or anything (except their genitals maybe).
I long for the day I hear that he’s either gone to prison or kicked the fucking bucket. On that day, I will breathe more deeply and sleep more soundly.
This!
Cheater apologies are worth nothing when:
they come with justifications (“we just fell in love”) and blame-shifting (“you weren’t so perfect either,” or “you don’t even LIKE ice hockey” (yes, he said this among other inane things. And, not that it matters, but my kids played ice hockey and I quite enjoy it, but not ENOUGH apparently. #mybad. Fly fishing, too. Did’t like that ENOUGH either.)
the cheater tries to screw you in the divorce
3.the cheater is only sorry for himself and minimizes chump pain
At first I glommed on to his apologies. I wanted to believe he was truly sorry. It was a kind of balm for my pain. But then I realized that his words meant nothing and that he was simply trying to avoid consequences. When the consequences came, he called me “vindictive.”
When I pointed out that he’s a liar (he had told me he’d lied every day for almost 3 years), he lashed out and threatened a messy divorce. That’s not the behavior of a remorseful person.
Sorry is as sorry does. The words of a liar are worth diddly-squat.
“I quite enjoy it, but not ENOUGH apparently”.
Ugh. I got the “you weren’t excited ENOUGH” or “happy enough”, or “upset enough” (you can also tack “for me” on the end of those, because it only mattered if it was in reference to what he was feeling). Nothing was ever enough. I’m a low key person, and don’t show my emotions all that voluably. I more than once told him “how will it make things any better if I also freak out?” or get angry or whatever. My emotions had to match the same level as his, and of course I could never be sad about something if he was happy, or be happy about something if he were upset. If I was, I “didn’t care about” him.
Not sure where numbers (1) and (2) went. 🤷🏻♀️
FW said he was sorry….but he wouldn’t end it and he didn’t regret it. So…….they suck no matter how you slice it.
‘I don’t regret defrauding investors. (You should see my yacht!) I regret that they feel hurt.
I’m not sorry I molested choir boys. I just feel bad (that I’m under indictment).’ Exactly!
The prob. is everyone knows that’s wrong, and few get that cheating is abusive.
Yesterday, on Canada’s talk show, ‘The Social’ (they always get cheating wrong), they discussed whether or not you should tell somebody if their partner is cheating on them. Most of them said ‘no’.
I’m sure they would tell if it was financial fraud.
Right and there is almost always (I would say always) financial fraud involved in cheating.
I say always because the chump is making financial and all life decisions based on lies.
I got ‘ yes I’m being shellfish’……after the zillion lies of no OW.
But he just didn’t care, he didn’t want the affair to end.
When the cheater said he “feels bad” I think he meant “feels annoyed”.
There are some cheaters that actually may feel bad or guilty but most are just flat out annoyed they got caught or have to deal with discarding the chump.
I got the whole, “I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, woops!” sort of attitude on D-Day. I wasn’t having that shit – got her out of my house within a few months and haven’t looked back. You’re a grown-ass adult, you have every agency to stay out of the “wrong place,” ffs.
And grown ass adults don’t “fall in love” unless they are out there spending time with and doing things they should not be doing.
When I asked FW if he was sorry for 7 years of cheating, financial/mental abuse and manipulation he said, “No. I knew it would hurt you but I didn’t care.” And when I shouted (in an argument) that he had never even apologized: “What for? It’s in the past. I can’t change it now.”
Nope. They are not sorry for anything.
It’s actually tragic that some people are willing to end a marriage or relationship over absolute trash. My god you can’t even trust you wouldn’t get some kind of std from your partner. Gross. Not worth it.
What i absolutely don’t understand is the mirroring of being a good man, showing up, caring for his elderly parents, caring for me..how this man can be hijacked by an evil alien under the skin of a human. Just like Star Trek…those beasts under a kind man’s face. That was exactly how my STBXH morphed into..one minute he is kneeling beside me in church.. the next month he’s watching woman wrestling and telling me he needs to relax. The next month he wires a TV into our wall in the bedroom, something he knew was a line in the sand for me( I can’t stand a tv in the bedroom as he would have it on all night.) Then came the beer, he never drank, then came gone after work till 8 or 9 saying he is shopping.That flip from…
A man who mirrored my values for years,30 to be exact and morphed into below ghetto behavior over 3 years. He said he was taking( his name) back. But who he turned into was a pimp and I was to do what he said or else!!! When D day came 2022 June, he said HE WAS NOT SORRY AND COULD NOT PROMISE ME HE WOULD NEVER DO THIS AGAIN. He said I drove him to it by not doing exactly what he wanted when he wanted it. He said I was crying but HE WAS HURTING TOO especially because HR had him under review for having sex in an empty patient room with a coworker. He said he was worried( consequences )he would lose his job and his stuff in the garage like his motorcycle, tools and trailer but he never mentioned me or our family! Oh wait, he did say he would miss my kids and g- kids( this STBXH is my 2nd cheater). So there was ZERO REMORSE but all the fear was for consequences. So this alien who lived inside a human husband DID NOT LOVE ME. He told me I had been very useful in caring for his elderly parents and for helping him raise his children. OK folks… I had a prenup which helped and I had him get a vasectomy before I married him. So no more weekend split of kids. I wasn’t as stupid the second time but my advice would be just like CL, if you stay with a cheater, get a post nup and a cute, kind and smart GYN doc for your weekly STD tests. If you plan to marry a loser, get a prenup and a kind GYN doc for all ongoing testing.When you make love to an alien you just can’t trust them ever again. You dont know who they really are or which planet they came from. My Divorce is coming this summer. I’m so happy on my own, and my GYN appointments are routine. So ..Thats My story, beam me up Scottie !
When I confronted My STBX exFW about his many secret “friends,” he whined that he had to delete everyone from his phone. I said who is everyone? Everyone he repeated. “Now I can’t have friends.”
Exactly. You know you were up to some shady shit. You just don’t want to admit it to me.
My favorite non-apology apology is “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
His “I’m not sorry” sounds defiant, like he’s digging in his heels, as if to show you that he is entitled to that relationship. Reminds me of DARVO – he’s defensive and throwing it back at you to “explain” to him why he can’t be “friends” because, heck, everyone should have friends and now he’s the victim in your home.
Nothing to work with there. He just showed you who he is.
I’m sorry you have to go through this.
Stop sharing information about yourself with him, go grey rock since you are living together, quietly get STD testing, and work with that lawyer.
Oops, just saw this one ran before.
It was a crazy day at work, and at 6 PM I’m coming up for air to read the blog I usually consume with my morning coffee. What a great way to end my day, with news of a CL Podcast! I could not be more excited!
Love me a good podcast. Mm mm mm! 😋 Do you all remember how one member of CN shared that her husband blamed his cheating on the fact that she’d served him bagged salad? 😂 My FW pulled the same thing, only his integrity kryptonite was that he didn’t appreciate me listening to podcasts.
This is going to be delicious.
He’s sorry he got caught. Remember, He does not have a problem, you do. It’s not that he did anything wrong, It’s that you found out. Got to manage that image. Trust that he sucks! He’s just sorry you do not like what he has been doing. Now he will punish you for not letting him get away with it. Just like a 3yr old threatening to hold his breath.
“I regret that she feels pistol whipped” is a true gem of a phrase. You have a gift for memorable turns of phrase and writing that cuts through B.S. and makes the reality of a situation obvious; but that one is a real standout.
it makes it clear the absurdity of their position: the problem is not the fact they are in pain the problem is the fact they got jit in the face!