Dear Chump Lady, I don’t trust women
Dear Chump Lady,
Today was the 30th day since my 2.5 year long divorce nightmare ended. And, tonight I’m feeling certain that I know a fundamental truth about women that I DO NOT want to believe. Tonight I am convinced that almost all women see men as a means to a shallow ends. Will he provide me enough, will he praise me enough, will he stay good looking enough, will he raise my social status enough, etc… and when he no longer does, will I still be young enough to find a replacement, when this man has served all the purposes I have for him now.
I know the fellow chump ladies would say, that is what their NPD would say of them. I know it is not just a female issue, there are sucky men out there. (Although, I don’t know them, while almost all my male friends have been put through hell by women like that).
I don’t want to be a bitter old man (I’m 50 now). I don’t want to be a misogynist. But, tonight, that feels like the real truth. That women see men not as mates, but as stepping stones, that mean no more than the dirt they wipe on them from their expensive high heeled shoes, as they walk all over the subservient, codependent men, on their way to their selfish version of happiness.
Please, CL, and the ladies of your blog, put me in my place, and tell me I am wrong. Before I become the bitter old misogynist I don’t want to be.
Steve
Dear Steve,
Excuse me, before I can answer your letter, I need to remove my Manolo Blahniks and stab some sniveling man with my heel. (I find that’s the best way to remove the dirt.) Ah, happiness! Next, I shall peruse the glossy holiday catalog that just arrived “Gold Digger — Upgrading Stylishly!” where I will page through pages of handsome profiles, (Biff Biffson, internet entrepreneur! Nils Hunkgren ski instructor! Walter Greedsnort, commodities trader!) and look at my husband askance to see if he measures up. Hmm. Lawyer. This is good. Hmmm. Wardrobe. Not so good. Maybe I could trade him in for a man who wears French cuff shirts.
But let’s get real, Steve. Is a man with gold cufflinks, a guy who will buy me all the Manolo Blahniks I deserve — is he going to be interested in squigdy, middle-aged me? Maybe, if he’s 70 or something, and not that discerning. But to get the quality chump — you know, the sort of guy who will let me bleed him dry — I need to up my game. So before I chuck my clueless husband, first I’ll soak him for a gym membership and some liposuction. Straighten my hair, botox my inner thighs, shellac my eyebrows, pluck my ears, and exfoliate my elbows. Once made over, I’m the kind of flaky sexpot Walter Greedsnort could never resist.
Oh so what if there are 1,700 facsimiles of me profiled in the glossy catalog men get “Bimbos Better Than Your Wife” (Mindy Muffet, shop girl! ZseZse Planck, masseuse! Bitsy Drake, artful accessory! Inoffensive and nice to look at! And she doubles as a houseplant!) That’s what you men want, isn’t it? A pretty face, big boobs, and willing orifices?
No? You’re not like that? You want more? You want a friend too? A spiritual connection? A person who will sit through a Cubs game with you and like it? Someone to grow old with? The kind of gal who makes an effort but doesn’t spend $120 each week on elbow exfoliation?
Yes we exist, Steve. Of course we exist. And nice men exist too. Men who are more than the sum of their wallets.
You’re just having a fit that’s common to chumps at times — the I Hate the Entire Gender, They’re All Like My Crappy Ex.
You know why you’re feeling that way? Because it’s easier than feeling like a chump.
Hey, if the game is rigged, if they’re ALL like that, well you were never vulnerable, you never have to examine your picker, this is just How It Is. It’s inevitable that you were going to get played, because true love and commitment don’t exist. It’s just a shell game. HA! Now you’re on to them — and you won’t get conned again. Everyone who “loves” is going to get suckered, but not you!
Sorry Steve. Love is risk. You know when people are most prone to superstition? When they feel like they have no control. They create little rituals, or belief systems to give them a sense of control, to predict their futures. Don’t step on cracks on the sidewalk and Bad Things Won’t Happen. Avoid Green People, they’re all crooks and muggers. Touch the light switch 7 times, and your mother won’t die.
All Women Suck is just your stupid superstition. It’s not true. Some women suck, absolutely. Some women are gems. It’s up to you to fix your picker and learn to discern better. Judge people on their character, look for signs of entitlement. Value reciprocity in your relationships over the perfectly shellacked eyebrow and botoxed thigh. Don’t be shallow, and don’t attract shallow.
Is this a perfect solution? It’s the best I’ve got for you. Because life isn’t risk free. All you can control in this world is yourself. If someone mistreats you, you deal with that. You protect yourself. You don’t go all chumpy. You had the misfortune of being cheated on, you learn from it.
But don’t wall off your heart, Steve. Don’t close it to the millions of people out there who are not duplicitous and shallow. Who love with their whole hearts. Whose squigdy middle-agedness might rock your world. You don’t know.
I’ll leave you with a quote from one of my favorite artists Alice Neel:
You should keep on painting no matter how difficult it is, because this is all part of experience, and the more experience you have, the better it is… unless it kills you, and then you know you have gone too far.
Keep painting, Steve.
This column ran previously.
Yeah, the temptation is real to write off the other gender. But CL is right: good women (and men) exist who genuinely value you for being you as opposed to just a means to something. I found one after my divorce. It was obvious the difference when I proposed. My cheating ex grabbed and only looked at the ring…my wife looked at me.
I completely understand about writing off the other gender. What prevents me is KNOWING some truely awesome men who are genuine; nothing like the “man behind the curtain” whom I married.
I don’t even need to ‘have hope’ to eventually meet someone decent. They are there. I think it’s best to work through the relationship trauma first. It’s ok to be angry and mad at an entire gender for a while. But not every single person is out to get you. If you can’t ‘read’ who are the grifters yet, you need to continue to date yourself.
This. That’s about where I am right now – dating myself. And it feels good to rediscover who I am.
Holy Moly (edited in respect to you) Divorce Minister!!!! My x did the same. I had never even thought about it until now. Wow and thank you for that.
You know what’s funny? H bought an iPad for me for our anniversary. I said all I wanted was time with him and our family, not more stuff. He left me two months later. Sigh.
OMG me, too, I got an iPad for our anniversary last September. Less than 3 weeks later I told him he needed to decide if we were going to work on our marriage (that was before I discovered the “emotional’ affair) or if we were going to call it quits. While not the most romantic gift it was my lifeline – to this site and to other online divorce resources.
I’ve got you all beat, lol. My birthday, anniversary and Mother’s Day were all together. I’d always get the privilege of watching our boys play baseball that weekend. STBXH, as the coach, gave every mom a carnation. Those were my special events. His birthdays….I always went all out.
In my last birthday/anniversary, knew about the affair. He finally wanted to do something nice for me (trying to keep the “marriage together” cause I was the love of his life dontcha know) I told him why bother, why don’t you go be with your girlfriend….and he did. Told me it was the best anniversary/birthday present EVER. On my birthday. Wtf.
OK, I’ll say it again – a couple dozen posts complaining about gifts, not one from a man (please correct me if I’m wrong). Do you all see it the same way I do? – there seems to be more of an expectation among women to be shown appreciation through gifts. I’m not sure most men would complain about that.
Yes, I’m sensitive because my cheater x used that in her blameshifting excuses for leaving me – “i knew I should go when you didn’t get me what I wanted for my 50th.”
I could go on about the difficulty of buying gifts that pleased her, or the difficulty of pleasing her in general, but I am curious if you all know of men that complain like that, and why or why not.
Thanks for all the thoughtful commentary and feedback, everyone. Tempest and Annie, I think you’re right – she knew that would be a great way to get to me, and I should know better than to let it, but you know, triggers…. Also, Tempest, isn’t almost comical now the things they used to justify cheating? Your cupboards were too full? Uh, ok, ha, wtf?
Sheesh Arnold, it’s really a thing when you say there is no difference between genders on cheating and the proceed to say men have it worse, sorry your male privilege isn’t working out for you. Hugs to the kid
I think it’s about reciprocity. I was set up with all the thoughtfulness that you put into a new relationship I loved him and continued to listen to his wants and needs and try to provide those. He taught me to make my needs disappear, my wants became unimportant, and those markers throughout the year such as birthdays, which he knew were important to me, were treated callously. This played into me feeling worthless. When you repeatedly tell someone you didn’t have time to get them anything and leave the house early am and get home early am, what are you doing? A ten minute stop at Hallmark for a card? My kids and I would spend time putting thought into gifts that fit his hobbies or music taste etc for Fathers Day that would sit never listened to or nice bird feeders that were never put up. Same with Christmas. He was an empty vessel going the the motions trying to figure out how he should act. Watching others for cues. I’m ranting-Sorry. My first Mothers Day I received the statement of, “You are not MY mother so don’t ever expect anything from me.” She was 3 months old. He kept his word. Gifts are a tiny part of a relationship, but a reflection of how you are treated. Honestly, I would have been happy with a nice cup of coffee brought to me on the porch. Thoughtful does not have to be expensive.
Annie, thanks. That means a lot to me right now!
I guess I feel guilty and remorseful because I wish I could have been a better gift giver. A lot of our problems revolved around the fact that she was very controlling of our finances, which she mismanaged horribly. I ended up believing that there was nothing I could do, that I should always spend as little as possible. I mean we were ALWAYS in debt, most often because of decisions that she took, often against my desires and advice, other times without my knowledge. Was I a wimp? I guess so. I did make efforts to communicate and work with her about finances, and when she didn’t want to work with me on that, I also became resentful. Clearly, this issue was a major problem in our marriage.
I hear you – the issue is about the THOUGHT and EFFORT that go into the gift. Could I have done better there? Of course, but it wasn’t so bad that she could justify cheating on me because of it. Because she did exactly that. But I do understand that a lot of men don’t make the effort they should to show how much they value and love their wives, or other people in their lives, for that matter. It’s awful.
ANC, I respect your decision to make sure your cheater x gets something for Father’s Day. This past Mother’s Day, the first since she moved out in January, I reminded the kids, 19 and 13, of the date and said they should make a card or something like they normally would. I didn’t press the issue, maybe I should have.They were with me in the morning (my mom was visiting and we made pancakes),and then they went to lunch with their mom. 30 minutes or so after they came back that evening, my daughter came out of her room crying, saying her mother had angry texted her (yelled, she said) because they hadn’t made her anything. DD said “Mommy says I’m just like you, and don’t care about her.” So she grudgingly wrote up a card and took it over there. So yeah, I’m just a little sensitive about this issue – I know I could have done better, and also that she manipulated the issue awfully. I’m sorry if I come off as misogynous.
Oaktree–your X brings up your history of gift giving to blameshift her affair onto you. Why? Because they always find our weak spot/s, the one or two things we will feel guilty for being deficient in. Then they exploit those weak spots in order to have power over us.
Think about this logically–you did not get your wife diamond earrings for her birthday and that caused her to have vagina to penis contact with another man? Huh? Hear how stupid that sounds when put into an actual cause-effect sentence?
My X blamed the fact that our cupboards were too full, and that the playroom and study were too messy for him to go upstairs, as the reason he screwed multiple students and had adult dating site profiles. Huh? But when I remembered what he actually said once, it was, “You weren’t listening to me.” = “You weren’t doing everything I said, and because I could not control you to my satisfaction, I cheated.”
It all boils down to having power over us. And the best way to have power over a conscientious person is to make them feel that they could have done better.
Oh oaktree the problems seem to lie with your ex being a drama queen and disrespectful. As a mother of three myself how dare she make your baby girl cry and feel guilty. I never gave gifts expecting one back or ever expected a gift from anyone cause gifts are gifts. The greatest gifts to your ex are her children. My heart bleeds for your daughter she will learn how shallow and selfish her mom is. My kids are all grown i dont care if they gift me anything they are my gifts. I did mention for holidays if they text me greetings and do not call i will not answer. Texts for holidays are not accceptable to me from my kids. New tech age new day i get it but not from my kids. They have to call me. Right now my girl just graduated college last spring she got her diploma in the mail and immediately texted me a copy of it. I was thrilled she was a troubled teen and turned her life around but mentioned to me she was not texting her father a picture because she feels like he doesnt really care since he barely stays in contact with her whore juices kids became so much more important than his own dissappointing kids as he put it. Im sad for her she will not share this with her pod dad and if he knew i knew and he didnt then the explosion happens and the accusations fly. Its all just so sad. Not only did he destroy our marriage but well on the way to destroying the relationship with his kids. The best gift to give is to love and respect each other and the kids. For me gifts from the heart are the best cause you give of yourself asswipe couldnt and cant do that. Just throw money at it. Oaktree the best gift to give is of yourself and fuck anyone who doesnt appreciate that. Lots of pods in the world and they get better every day pretending to be human.
I don’t really put a lot of emphasis on gifts for one reason. To many people it is a control tactic and all for show. It falls under the category of “charm.”
I have a few single friends on Facebook, and many of them are just “blown away” by gifts from guys they date. Hell, I’ve been guilty of this myself. These relationships usually end bad. So now, when I see excessive gift giving, especially early in a relationship, I start thinking “psychopath” and I’m very often right.
I agree anita.
Oaktree,
I took your question as simply your trigger because it’s mine too. Yes, I could have done better too, but if gift giving is a reason to cheat I would have been cheating before our first anniversary when he forgot my birthday. Yep, completely forgot. His excuse was he was focused on our upcoming anniversary.
She cheated because she could and then picked your shortcomings as reasons knowing you would question yourself. They always know our weaknesses and how to go in for the kill. She wasn’t a good wife and she sounds like a horrible mother. Trust that she sucks.
Oak tree both genders have their own raw deal areas,neither worse than the other’s.
Think male suicide rates,shorter life expectancy,combat and workplce fatalities,longer prison sentences for the same crime,disparity in child custody,less funding for prostate vs breast cancer research, conscription etc. These rival the challenges women face.
Oaktree, I see why you think women want gifts but I think what most of the posters wanted was to be thought of, to have some care taken about thinking what the wife might want. All the cases mentioned above were about gifts for birthdays or Christmases–times when gifts would normally be given. I think the key is that it feels better to get something inexpensive but thoughtful (a handpicked posey of pansies, if that is a person’s favorite flower).
And yes, males do complain about gifts. My X was very critical of gifts, even when I tried to find something he would like. For example, after he lamented that he no longer had a velvet evening jacket he had worn in college, I bought material and a pattern to make him one. He scoffed at it, and did not appreciate that I was trying to do what pleased him. In fact, in 24 years, the only gift he seemed thrilled with was a set of Bose headphones (and I am normally considered a good gift giver).
It’s not about the thing gifted, really. For me this was someone who, because I thought I knew him, I went beyond fucking lazy and understood what he liked, his hobbies, his interests. I gifted things not of mega monetary value but based on things he liked because I VALUED him.
This dude was so disconnected from his family that he had/has no freaking clue about the details of his own kids’ lives. Doesn’t know what music they like, their favorite colors, favorite authors, etc. After 20+yrs together I has assumed he knew me. Not everything gifted needs to be $$. He could have ‘gifted’ a hike at a state park.
Point is ZERO thought was given to any people in his family. We are not people, only things. Things don’t have interests, opinions, thoughts or dreams. Which is why the objects gifted were simply to check a box. Like a task list.
This is the same guy who did NOTHING to model anything for kids about Mother’s Day or even our anniversary (I planned that stuff). Not a card, not a salutation, NOTHING, because “I wasn’t his mother” and it was up to our kids to figure out what to do from birth to their present ages. I mean, c’mon, a bunch of toddlers aren’t going to drive to the store, let alone hand craft a Mother’s Day card without an adult modeling the behavior for them. Despite all that, I always made a big deal of Father’s Day and had the kids thinking of things to celebrate with him. He’s not my dad, but he is my children’s father. Since I was fired from being his partner, I am fired from that too. I do remind the kids to DO something for him-they are tweens and young adults now.
Don’t get me wrong – I realize that men must (and do) have their own forms of entitlement that are vile, hurtful and unfair. I like to consider myself fairly sensitive to the injustices women live with in so many societies and certainly in ours. Of course there’s a lot more I can learn about that. It’s just this one area – gift giving – where I see men, who might actually be trying to do the right thing, being judged in ways that often seem superficial and materialistic. I can honestly say that if my wife gave me a gift, say some clothes that I didn’t actually want to wear a lot, or something I wouldn’t use much or that didn’t really match my personality, I would still smile and say thanks and move on. Now that I think about it, of course there were some things I got from her that weren’t great. It wouldn’t come up in later conversations, I wouldn’t remember it as a problem in our relationship.
Oaktree, I can see why you would be sensitive. Sorry you were treated so badly.
To answer the specific man complaining about gifts, my exh did. He started complaining about the time he started cheating. My last three gifts to him were the Sears Craftsman stainless steel workbench with three matching cabinets, lights, well basically everything that they displayed in the store for a garage (Christmas), a summer concert package of 10 concerts (Valentine’s Day), and the matching stools for the workbench (birthday). He was gone by Father’s Day. He only wanted the concert tickets in the settlement agreement. Guess who he took with the Valentine’s Day present I bought him.
Yeah, I’m just very sensitive about this. like you, Kar Marie, I bought my x gifts that she doesn’t give a damn about. She would tell me that I had done poorly, ot she would just simply never wear the jewelry or clothes I got her. And what I wanted most to give her was myself,and she did not seem to want that either. But now, of course, the Schmoopie is awesome, he gives her cool things. Fuck.
My STBX was very into receiving gifts from me and would start discussing what expensive sports equipment he wanted months in advance. He cared more about gifts than me. But I get your point and I think women just associate gifts with the thoughtfulness that did or did not go into them. Not to overgeneralize, but many men dont verbalize appreciation often, so we pay attention to the other indicators of our value. Or lack thereof.
Bought him nice clothes wouldnt wear bought him colonge wouldnt wear bought him lots of stuff he didnt appreciate except for books. Whore juice buys him nice clothes wears them whore juice buys him colonge wears it. Wtf. I ended up buying off the list of tools. Yeah really fun but what he wanted. Most women are like me and for me its the little things in life make me smile. I enjoyed the gifts he gave me but i only wanted him to give of himself even just a little. I know women who base their mans love on gifts again gifts dont mean shit in the long run.
I got an iPad too for my anniversary but was told it was also for my birthday. Oh well, still using it. He also left two months later.
?
That’s creepy about the two months later.
Mine took the iPad with him lol.
An iPad for your anniversary? Geez. How much more unromantic can you get. Did he always buy lame gifts like this, a toaster or a lawnmower? He sounds so boring and lame.
I’m going through a divorce after 24 years o marriage. He filed and notified me via mail!! I have found things very unsettling in the last 3 years. He’s been hot/cold even throughout the divorce process. I found an e-mail from a hook up site with her profile number. Then found her under her business contacts with a different e-mail…..so they been in contact. I found some go phone entries on his kindle. The order of the pages told me he had to have an account in order to reach the last entry page. It went like thi: first page was general website, second page was ” activevate my device”, third page “my personal info”. I even took it to a store that sells those devices and they told me unless you have an account you can’t reach the last page. He started lying about small things. Btw–he even had a hotels reward membership. He has never admitted a single thing! I started keeping a journal just to make sure I wasn’t remembering things incorrectly. His demeanor towards me changed completely. I was hoping this was a middle life crisis and would pass. It’s been 3 months and we have both hired attorneys. We had many years together and a lot of good memories. Divorce should be granted any day now. We have no children and I’m foreign and have no family here. He stayed home last Thursday from work because he said he wanted to make sure he had considered everything. He moved into a spare bedroom the day he filedThen the rest of the weekend didn’t talk to me. This is routine. I will be moving out of state upon divorcing. I’m extremely depressed and find it difficult to even get out of bed. I feel like I’m having to start over at my age age , while he gets to be the distinguished stud with a very nice income. Living under the same roof is driving me nuts. Sometimes I’m angry, I cry daily and I can’t start on anything (except research) until the settlement comes through. I was a loyal wife. I’ e work for 20+ years, cleaned. cooked, ran errrands. Etc. I’m getting some anti-depressants to help. I thought I’d be further along by know. But–perhaps it’s just been under the same roof.
What’s with iPads? Dr. Crazy gave me one for our first anniversary, 4 days after I’d gotten the anonymous text informing me about his various online dating profiles and was in shock.
Dumped him. Kept the electronics.
All these gifts are practical gifts, none from the heart. What happened to romantic gifts, like jewerly or something thoughtful. It’s not the price that counts, but the gesture and thought behind it. These cheaters are idiots. Their hearts are not invested in the relationship and their gifts are a clear evidence of this.
Kellia,
I’m curious how jewelry is more “romantic” than electronics? It’s purely “in your mind” what is considered romantic – it’s something marketing experts “sell” you on the concept. I, with much thought, purchased an external hard drive (electronic device) for a dear dear friend of mind – a female – that I was seeing – for Valentines Day. In retrospect I would consider her a soul mate, the most important person in my life. You could argue that was a horrible sucky gift, particularly for V-day!!! Because it wasn’t jewelry, because it wasn’t “romantic”. I get the concept. I admitted to her it was cheesy even before she received it, but I explained it was a realistic and useful gift. She had just received a new laptop, and was getting rid of an old one. She has mass, mass amounts of pictures of songs – things she was into and valued, which could now be backed up and saved off. I actually gave a lot of consideration to the gift, in detail. Flowers die quickly and are such short term value – while she appreciated when I got them for her, she acknowledged the short duration and didn’t agree with spending significant money on flowers. Granted, I will also agree that flowers are more romantic “in the mind”, but maybe value that you got something at all? Value a gift. Maybe not perfect. Maybe I could have done better? When was the last time all of you females complaining on the gifts received – when was the last time you sent flowers out of the blue to your man (new or established relationship)? Or that you got him something romantic? I’m not going to deny men are not the most romantic – I was far more romantic than she was. I got a pull-over sweater, 2 actually. Is that romantic? Is that more “romantic” than an iPad, or an external hard drive. I’d argue, not viciously or critically bitterly, that my two pullovers had zero more “romantic” value than an iPad or the external hard drive I purchased for her. It’s all a mind game – perception and perspective. All of us fall victim to criticize others, while thinking we are better. I’m that, I’ll fully admit it. I’m forcing myself to look at things far more openly than I ever have before. I get it, we hurt, we strike out. HURT PEOPLE HURT PEOPLE though. Try to be objective. Try to see things at a broader spectrum.
Her and I are no longer together. Sucks that it had to end. Too many complications. Too many differences in our personalities and life styles. I’m sure many of you women are thinking this guy is an ass, just because of my gender without even realizing it. Good for her she’s not with him! Blah Blah Blah. Obviously he wasn’t objective and open minded enough, right? I’ll fully admit that. But we had material differences in our values. That is very challenging to overcome – unless you just don’t give a d*&$.
Now, realize I never once lied to her. I never hid anything from her (I asked to defer one thing while were exploring our relationship while I worked on it, but I was upfront on it and brought it up). I reconnected with her at a challenging part of my life and thought I had found a life partner (her term). So why didn’t it work out?
She lied about fundamental things. She lied by omission. She told me what I “wanted” to hear. She was like a chameleon – adapting to the environment to survive. Much of this was subconsciously on her part, but I would argue not all… We all know when we say something that isn’t true. Maybe not the implication of the impact.
You might be thinking I was not accepting, maybe even close minded. I was, I’ll admit that. It’s also what is forcing me to reflect on life and my values.
I’m judgmental. But without judgment and common societal beliefs towards a common good, our social system would degrade. People would take what ever they wanted from others. They would drive drunk and risk other’s safety. Not contribute to society with taxes. We judge our kids on their grades, their friends, their actions (think of lighting a firework with their face over the device) – we judge sometimes because we care, sometimes because of fear, sometimes out of a need for control
I’m trying to be more cognizant and open minded.
I hold myself to my standards, so while I’m judgmental, I’m not a hypocrite.
However, if you reverse the situation, and it was me the male that lied, that lied by omission, that told her what SHE wanted to hear in order to strengthen the relationship, I’m betting many of the females on the site would be cheering her on for leaving (it was actually mutual).
How about rather than complaining (you could call me bitter above – I have some of that, I’ll admit), we open our minds and hearts. It’s difficult, but it’s necessary.
I’m with Oaktree – lots of women complaining on gifts.
I get women like to be shown attention – they are driven by emotion far more than men imho. I’d say they “need” attention more than men. I’m all for the comments on “time” – they valued time more than gifts. I’ll also fully admit I gave monetary gifts – we had miles between us, so gifts showed some affection. I’m extremely stubborn and independent, but I as a male see gifts as a way to show appreciation, even to my immediate family. We emailed near daily – phone what not her thing. I would have preferred phone conversations. Inflection, tone are missing in emails. She had reasons for not wanting to be on the phone (I still discount them even today, granted they had some value, particularly one, but it was offset by her own comments that contradicted the objections to phone conversations).
I’ve rambled here. It’s part of my discovery and healing… Much like I perceive for the females that are also venting.
I’m not trying to bash even myself, but I see a lot of bashing of the men in the stories (due to the nature of the audience I’m sure). I understand, but I’m also curious how many of the commenters (men or women) reflected on their relationships and the failure, and what they might have that might have contributed to the failure? What might have you done differently that could have helped with a different outcome? Have you adjusted with your current relationship? I’ve become very introspective, and am trying to better myself, and as difficult as it is at times, be more open minded, within reason.
I hope, with my new awareness, that I could find someone and be a fantastic partner (I’ve failed in areas in the past (AS I’M SURE ALL OTHERS HAVE AS WELL – even those compaining in this thread). However, just like many of the commenters on this thread, I don’t know I’m up for another shot. The downside is very risky, and painful. Cost (risk) vs (possible) benefit.
“We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions”
“People are quick to judge others faults, but never quick to point out their own” (or they fail to recognize they do the same things they are judging others on)
“We are very good lawyers for our own mistakes, but very good judges for the mistakes of others.”
Hurt Soul – I’m extremely practical, so, therefore, love practical gifts and give the same. In my book, even flowers are suspect especially roses. They die in 2-3 days. If you are going to buy a flower, buy one that will last at least a week!
The hard drive was a thoughtful gift IMO. As far as gifting to men – I used to surprise my ex with things all the time and very often put lots of thought into the gifts – they were not for any special occasion either. Women give gifts all the time – from something as small as picking up your favorite cookie while grocery shopping, to happily cooking a regular old dinner and doing the cleanup. That is a daily gift of love and those are VERY romantic 😉
I’m sorry things didn’t work out for you. Keep your chin up and try, try again because there are lots of gals out there looking for a chump like you! Happy Thanksgiving.
Yep … Find my iphone app was also very informative. I learned that every day when he came home from work he would stop at the park right around the corner, get out and walk to the far corner, stand hidden in some trees next to a graveyard, and talk on the phone to his gay friend. Anyone wanna guess what he was doing while he was hiding behind that tree? I also saw how often he was stopping at the grocery store to buy beer for cash (he’s an alcoholic) and watched him stop by the park to dispose of the beer bottles after his evening tennis games.
Mine got me diamond earrings for one of our earlier Christmases together. I wore them all the time. Besides my wedding ring, it was really the only jewelry I wore. Years later I lost one of the earrings. I was heartbroken. I hinted at another pair for years. Nothing. Then i came right out and asked for him to buy me another pair or at least one to match the one I lost. He told me no. I had lost it and he didn’t want to buy me something I’d just lose again. The Christmas after the first dday, I got a new pair of diamond earrings. I took them off after the 2nd dday and sold them with all the other jewelry he gave me over the years. When I went to the Caribbean with my sister I bought a new pair of diamond earrings. They now symbolize my freedom and I wear them all the time.
Hope I’m not too late on the iPad gift! I get lost answering sometimes.
The X bought me a new iPad for xmas (well, he actually won it at work) and it replaced my older one.
I get it all set up and am fascinated with the new app ‘Find my iPad’. Figured it out and showed him how it worked if we ever lost it.
Then, suddenly, he loved the new screen resolution on it and the new technology so he took it back. (It was sort of his since he won it for working hard, yanno) Although, my name was engraved on it.
So, Mr Jolly Roger takes that iPad everywhere he goes, especially on those sudden ‘business’ trips all over the country.
Living at her house between those trips.
Oh yeah, I had a real ball following him around on that that thing, watching everywhere he went.
They were too stupid to turn the ‘off’ button off and, since I originally set his name and password up on it and showed him, he didn’t even *think* about that. Suppose his Weiner got the best of him.
What a fool. Hey buddy – thanks for the ‘gift’.
(he threw the thing away when I told him I’d been following him the past year) He accused me of working for HSD – lol) Fucker. It was a good iPad.
I also received an iPad….. It’s tool. Like him.
I too received an iPad (mini) for Christmas. Only gift he ever purchased during 2 decades. Weird. For anniversaries it was the same repetitive card that focused on his behaviour instead of stating any love for me. Oh, and red roses, even though I mentioned (for 20 years) that I didn’t like red, but preferred white. The gifts were not important. The fact that my preferences were disregarded for that length of time says it all. Like many others here, some time alone just talking & connecting was all I wanted.
Me too, for my birthday, after I had told him multiple times that I had no interest in an Ipad. I never used it and it’s just been collecting dust since then.
lol, ANC!
They only give what they themselves love.
Thirty six years times fifteen dollar flowers every single anniversary. Never once made a plan. Never a birthday present, more flowers.
I never expected more or complained. I had to pay for my dinner and drink while he got the most expensive plate on the menue and had five drinks.
Do I care what’s in anyone’s wallet. No. It’s about appreciation and kindness.
OK, I gotta say something – what is with women and the obsession with gift giving? Do you see any men here complaining about the gifts their cheater x’s gave them? It’s a bit of a sore spot with me.
Oaktree; I gotta agree. Mine would tell me to go get what I wanted (Usually less than $100.00) then I would get what I wanted myself and he paid for it. It was just fine with me. He didn’t like to shop, and I got something I needed or wanted.
I think women see/feel the difference when someone is cheating, because the gift has gone from being thoughtful to generic.
“Where a person spends their treasure is where their heart lies.” I basically handed every single check I ever earned right over to my wife. My reward was for her to leave me. This is obviously a reflection of the unhealthy relationship dynamic that existed between my wife and me, and is not in any way representative of men or women. I just wish it had all been different.
The only gift we can give is truly of ourselves thats the only one that really matters. Love honor integrity trust. My house is going to closing in a few weeks dday three years ago divorce dec 2015. Asswipe is buying the house his business is here. After dday i asked please now i know dont lie to me anymore give me that gift please. Please. he agreed. I asked if whore juice was ever in my house or any other of his bimbos he said no he wouldnt disrespect me like that. Swore on his kids lives he was telling the truth. While packing up my stuff i found pictures of whore juice and others naked in bondage outfits bruised and beaten pictures taken in my kitchen, my living room, my bed, my truck and my car. Ive spent the morning in tears. That motherfucker couldnt give me the one gift i asked for. The truth. He lied on his kids lives and disrespected me in my own home and my own bed. Felt the knife dig even deeper. Thirty years with the fucktard i gave him faithful honest loving service and that motherfucker fucked three woman in my own bed while i was working at my job and came home and handed him my paycheck for thirty years. I trusted this pod above all others and even when it no longer mattered still he lied. I begged to be told the truth and just more fucking lies. Ive printed out all the pictures and bondage dating sites he is on and when i move i will leave them on the counter for him to see when he takes back the house. Until then i have to reel it in and play the great actress because he can get violent and vindictive. I didnt hate him until today and im giving him the gift of silence and crickets when i leave. Oaktree he still wants to be family and best me he still wants sex with me. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Good loving giving people expect little in return. Truth, honesty, caring, sharing. After today do i wish him dead, damn right i do.
Oh, wow. I’m so sorry you had to experience that. Not going Tasmanian Devil on the house is a true sign of mightiness. I know it’s in your own best interest not to, but I can imagine the urge to bust shit up is strong.
Thanks which way i thought i knew it all. I was going through the important papers drawer just pulling out my personal stuff when i found them. I couldnt believe he lied to my face again even after it no longer mattered. Violated the sanctity of my home and bed! What pieces of shit these women are. Must have been funny being dirty and sneaky getting one over on me. Asswipe even said its all over now km why would i lie? And continues to lie to this very day. I never wanted to hate him but now i have no choice even up to the very end he has to fuck me over. Its gonna take every ounce of my being to keep calm and pretend but i need to, to get what i want. Today i dont want to destroy his stuff id rather destroy him but i wont. I will simply walk away like nothing cause thats what asswipe is. Just nothing, nothing son, nothing father, nothing friend. Nothing.
Funny, I didn’t miss Arnold’s misogyny at all, do hope the kid is ok.
Oak tree-
Where a person spends their treasure is where their heart lies.
You noticed that,eh,Oaktree? Yikes,better duck. Lots of misandry here.
Misandry…hmmmm…welcome back, Arnold. We’ve missed you.
Good observation I can only speak for myself, but I value the sentiment of the gift. I have notes from my sisters since high school. I still have handmade cards from my boys. And the diamond earrings I got from exh came after I told him about the ones I was supposed to get from my dad but were stolen from me by my mom.
The new diamond earrings I bought myself represent my freedom. The freedom to be at a point in my life to give to myself what I want and need and not wait for anyone else to provide it.
Gifts that have meaning are priceless, whatever their cost. Those flowers that he never brought home would have represented that he thought about me and made an effort to show it. My heart melts when I see men leaving the grocery store with a bunch of flowers. I can’t help but smile at them each and every time because there’s such a sweetness and easy simplicity in the gesture and I hope they will be enjoyed and remembered.
The only gift i ever wanted was his love and devotion. And maybe a card. I only mentioned gifts cause thats what he gave me instead of giving of himself. Three greatest gifts we got were the kids and he mostly complains about them. Gifts dont mean shit to me especially if they are just replacing attention he cant give. I know tons of women who feel the same and no matter how many times i told asswipe id rather have a card and some special us time than a gift he never got it.
My ex always bought me kitchen things or stuff that he could use/enjoy. I was his Wife Appliance and kitchen things made me more efficient.
The knife sharpener. That was mine. I can laugh now. I’m not a chef nor curiously into making cuisine. I laugh because it FITS! The guy stabbing me in the back and having his special friends do it too gave me a knife sharpener!!!!
Coffee maker here. By the third year our kids laughed and said, “Oh look, it’s Mom’s annual Christmas coffee maker.” Not to mention the same book twice in a row, two different ones.
Mine just wrote me a check in a card (with no heartfelt sentiments in the card).
My ex, on my last birthday before D day, when he ramped-up the lovebombing a bit, gave me a card that basically read: “Oh it’s your birthday again? You seem to get one of those every year. ” No sentiment printed or written. Just signed. Boy did that suck.
I got nice gifts from asswipe but it was because he cant give of himself. Too much trouble to buy a card write in it and decide where to take me for dinner. Way too much trouble. I never asked much all i ever wanted was to be loved and appreciated. But that was more than asswipe is able to give. Just throw money at it and everything will be great. Yep thats how pods think.
That was my ex to a T! He never had time to find a gift for anyone. Cash was his solution for every occasion-birthdays-deaths. He always said it’s the gift that will never be returned. I would buy thoughtful gifts for everyone, sign our names, and he would come behind me and dole out large sums of cash. Sometimes cash is an appropriate gift but I never understood why he did that and it frustrated the hell out of me. My kids became accustomed to amounts that I considered obscene for their age. He could have put it in their savings for college.
My DS just had a milestone birthday and has had no contact with him for over a year. Still, he expected a card and the cash. He got crickets. After the third day looking for the mail, I told him that I feel since he elected no contact his dad is done. If he isn’t getting something from you, he’s not giving anything. I could be wrong because I have no idea how he thinks. However after 33 years, I feel I can predict his behavior to some degree. A simple card would have shown some interest but they don’t operate that way.
My STBX was the king of grand gestures. Expensive gifts I didn’t want or need which he was more interested in boasting to everyone about to make himself look like the generous thoughtful husband, rather than put any thought into the simple things that I liked and cost nothing. Spent hundreds of pounds on diamond earrings for our 12th anniversary in February even though he knew I hated flash jewellery and never wear it but he kept on insisting I put them on in front of other people. Found out weeks later the day after this grand anniversary “gift of love” he was off shagging his Howorker in the toilet of a local bar, and continued to do so regularly for next couple of months. After DD 1 while in the throws of wreconcilliation I called him out on it saying I wanted his time and his affection not material things. He nodded in agreement so I played the pick me dance while he continued to eat cake. Luckily DD 2 came only weeks later and I threw his arse out. Hadn’t discovered CL or CN then but so reassuring to know these fucktards all play by the same rule book and never change. It’s always all about them so kicking them to touch permanently is the only way to move on and be happy.
His howorker likes expensive handbags and holidays so they are well matched although he might find he can’t afford such luxuries for her now he has two homes to pay for. Not sure how long she’ll stick around when she realises!!!
So yes there are women (and men) who will use their chumps to get what they want until something better comes along – mine didn’t have a pot to piss in when we met and let me pay for everything – house, wedding, honeymoon, car. But there are loads of us who are not disordered narcissists and actually value people with good hearts more than any of the material things they can provide us with. Don’t let them win and ruin any future happiness that you deserve by making you bitter and untrusting. Just tune your fucktard radar a little more sharply!!!
STBX bought everyone lousy gifts. My favorite … he bought a decoy duck for his mom for christmas. No one in that family hunts or cares about wildlife … everyone was baffled by his choice. But I know why he bought it … It was on display on a table right at the entrance to the store. He literally picked up the first item he saw and was done gift shopping in five minutes flat. Typical.
I am 46 now, my 42nd birthday I got nothing. ‘They’ forgot. I kicked my then husband and my then 6 and 10 year old out of my bed to get me the attention I deserved. I threw away the ugly wooden parrot when DD nr1 hit me. My boys know they should never cheat or forget someone they love again. My then husband is my ex and has a girlfriend my boys don’t know, she’s number 8.
Neverwouldhaveimagined–wow, what a thoughtful guy (eyeroll). Did he buy them in bulk? Good thing you left him or you probably would have received the same card in perpetuity.
Mine gave me the same anniversary card 2 years in a row and didn’t even notice! Lol
I sure hope so! It’s been 2 1/2 years since my ex cheated and left (I’m 51 now) and I admit I also feel a little apprehensive about going another round. I talk to several women I’ve reconnected with via Facebook I knew years ago and one in particular we talk all the time.. BUT…I’m gun shy. It was a 24 year relationship that she walked away from and maybe I’m just not ready? There are times it sounds intriguing and exciting but other times it sounds scary and crazy. I guess time will tell..
kbchump, if you were to pursue the woman on your mind most, would you and she be okay with going Very Slowly?
I ask this second question because I can’t tell from your post if its answer is a factor in your discomfort: do you know why she left after 24 years? (Not trying to pry, just to understand whether or not her history contributes to your uncertainty.)
Yes the woman I’ve been talking to recently divorced for the second time..sounded amicable enough but I don’t know his side..I don’t think either one of us is in any rush. Her first marriage ended in disaster when her husband cheated with their babysitter..he ended up divorcing her and marrying the sitter. At our ages we all have these tales of woe I suppose, lol.
As far as why my ex left there was a lot of stress financially and probably neglect on both our parts toward each other. While it hurt she left it’s what I learned months later that really did a number on me, with the cheating and with who (our daughters boyfriends father)…he was a mutual “friend” lol…still hurts a bit if I dwell on it.
I don’t think I’d survive another round that didn’t work out. I feel like I’ve lost everything including years of my life and my self-respect… I’ll have to wait and see. I understand the alternative, but right now love is not worth the risk of intimate betrayal, massive loss, and profound sorrow.
^^
What they said.
yup
19 months from Dday and I’m on the fence. There are days that I want to feel that intimate love and emotional envolvement with a man, but I don’t want to go through the “getting to know you” phrase. Ugh! So dislike that stage of a relationship. And then there are days I say screw it, I’m content raising my teen daughter and enjoying our life and closeness with her. (She’s a GREAT teen- not like the typical teen either) but she wants me to ‘find’ someone to be happy with.
Steve – I have been feeling the same way about men! I look at them like they all have an agenda. They want sex – First. They want home-cooked meals and their genitals rubbed every time they arrive home from work. They want to be worshipped for the job they are doing, served a perfect martini and who isn’t much around the house to help with weekend chores. (no, it’s James Bond movie time), but – oh, the egos at their work place. I’m sure we were both lacking in the intimacy department after over 3 decades of his looking in the mirror and admiring himself. I really was just a pawn in his game of chess.
How can I possibly believe any man out there would actually like me for who I am. And, not an accessory to his business acumen.
SheChump, after having been in a long sexless marriage where I did all the cooking, had unrubbed genitals, was the only one who worked, drank alone and had the kids all weekend every weekend, your Man-agenda above does sounds pretty sweet!!! 🙂
I treated stbx like a king and would do all of the above but I eventually stopped because it was not reciprocal and our marriage became sexless…but not due to me. He was saving himself for the porn, hookers and Craigslist girls. I would have done anything he asked if he would have been a little bit loving and had sex with me on a somewhat regular basis. It was so bad at one point that I had told him if he wanted me to do something that he needed to put out…..and he still wouldn’t……UGH so pathetic…..Smh-can’t believe that I put up with that for years…….I would get hit on by other men constantly but I couldn’t get my own husband to have sex with me.
His version of love/marriage was to buy me the most expensive, lavish gifts so people thought we had a great marriage & that he was head over heels in love with me…….. All I had to do was put up with a cheater and a sexless marriage-no thanks. I’m sure there will be plenty of other women out there who would accept that, it’s just not for me.
I’m in my 40’s and truth be told, I’m not looking for perfection or a sugar daddy in a man. All I really want is a kind, funny man who is honest, loyal, and will put out on a regular basis. If he cooks, cleans, and plays with kids-that’s a huge bonus!!!!
Buddy–I’ve been reading your story long enough to know that some high-quality woman will snap you up enthusiastically.
Even the thought of a man who does 50% of the parenting, the cooking, and is actually grateful for a cold martini served as he enters the door….sigh.
I know, right. If I had someone who cooked for me, well, he could pretty much get whatever the hell he wanted. I have no idea how to make a martini, but I would damn well learn.
As for trusting men, I shy away from trusting anyone, male or female too much. It must be earned first. It’s my foo and my line of work. But I do plan on dating. I want to go out and just have a good time and take it from there, like I do with friends now, only with butterflies in the stomach. Does it matter what’s in his wallet? Yes it does. I am 50 years old and have worked my entire life. I don’t need anyone to “take care” of me and I will not take care of someone else.
I do however want someone who knows what hard work looks like and can afford to go places and do things with me. I will not date anyone who lives in their mother’s basement, is “in between” jobs, rides a bicycle to my house because he can’t afford a car or his driver’s license was revoked for his 5th DUI, wears his bathing suit because he didn’t find time between Call of Duty and Pokemon to do laundry, thinks walking to the refrigerator is exercise, or can’t be within 1000 feet of any school or playground because he’s on the sexual offender registry.
So your wallet and lifestyle matters to me so that you may keep up with me, not sustain me. And I’d even buy the food, if you’ll just cook it.
AnnieGYG, lol!
Annie ‘I’d rather look at Craig’s List dick pics that see my ext naked again.’
OMG – rof – tell us how you really feel!
I seriously want to know what woman in her right mind would respond to such an ad!!!!
St Elsewhere – ‘Did I marry him for the money? Obviously not, because he did not have any.’
I was a city girl and agreed to marry a poor farmer in the badlands of Montana.
Money? Who cared – he could ride a combine better than anybody I knew.
He was dirty and sexy when he was dirty after a hard days’ work, and that’s what I loved him for.
But, we moved on, to the city…..so it certainly was never money altho we both became good business people in our own careers.
I would have gone anywhere he wanted.
I didn’t realize there were so many gold diggers out there in real life.
A prostitute would be the only one, either gender.
If men don’t know it by now, women are NOT turned on by your penis photos (especially if there are pink towels behind you in the bathroom) or your videos of you jerking off.
You just look like what you are – perverts.
It doesn’t work that way assholes. Just ewwwwwwww
The X had a great looking dick, but it never wound up doing anything great.
These are pretty simple requests. Exactly how I feel.
Annie – ‘I know, right. If I had someone who cooked for me, well, he could pretty much get whatever the hell he wanted’.
I’m with you there, chickie! Dating a chef or sous chef would be a dream.
I also would do all the shopping, cleaning up, and anything else he desired.
I’m SO DONE cooking for the past 50 yrs!!! (I was queen chef of our family at age 10)
The thing is, all those requests should be automatic – on the same list as “doesn’t kill people.” And yet, we have to be specific because of the kinds of people out there.
One would think that my list would be a no brainer, but it’s not. When I first started on CL I was curious about all of the Craig’s List references. I really had no idea what was in some of these ads. I laughed at the ad where this guy was looking for a long term relationship but has terminal lung cancer. At least he was honest about his disease, if not the long term relationship part. And for all the women who thought they could snag him and gain his inheritance, he was unemployed and living on the state’s dime. Then there’s the guy who was just getting his life back in order after fifteen years away from things (can you say prison) and wanted to meet that special person. But, and people should really be warned about this, do not click on any ad that includes pictures. One might think it will be a face picture. Nope. I really wanted to see some man holding his dick while in the bathroom. Oh, and if you can pull your eyes away from the dick, you might notice the pink towels hanging on the towel racks and multiple toothbrushes in the holder.
No more Craig’s List for entertainment purposes for me. If I read another ad from a married man whose wife just doesn’t understand him and he’s looking for a discreet relationship I don’t think I would ever date again. Craig’s List is like a preview to who will be on the next list of the FBI’s Most Wanted.
annie – I’ve always wondered what Craig’s list is about. Some people say I can sell things there. I’m like – no way – that’s a SEX site!
And, they look at me strange.
Thanks for the glimpse – sort of, I had no idea what was there and afraid to look.
I cannot believe people post dick picture there and think they’re going to get a response?
Yeah sure, maybe from a gay guy or trans.
Just UGH there is such a demand for a site so popular.
You can buy or sell almost every damn thing there. It’s very dangerous and for legal transactions most police stations have “safe transaction zones”. We have one that has a direct phone to us and a monitor, plus a bunch of cop cars and cops coming and going from the building.
I see the reports of people that go to a hotel for a hook up and get jumped and robbed by her pimp. I knew of the ads but never read any of them until CN kept mentioning it. I can’t believe that people actually post some of the things that they post. One piece of advice, don’t open any picture. There are some things you just can’t unsee.
Add another from Friday…
I’d rather look at Craig’s List dick pics that see my exh naked again.
Thanks. Nice to get compliments 🙂
Steve, this is a dark path. Listen to Chump Lady!
Becoming a bitter lady hater will only get you farther away from meeting someone nice! And it’s only been 30 days! Give yourself time, process your grief and anger. As cheesy as it sounds, find out who you are without anyone else, then open yourself up to dating again.
(And if you want to really see what a dark sad path hating the whole other gender leads to, check out wehuntedthemammoth.com )
24 years of marriage and almost 30 years total, 4 kids and left the year he turned 50 for a younger woman…by 15 years. How much of a cliché is that? It would be funny if it weren’t so fucking painful.
I don’t trust men. I see too many of them with way younger women. But then I have to tell myself it’s like that new car phenomena: when you buy a white care (or any color) suddenly all you see are cars that color. I got dumped by a cheating, lying weasel of a fucktard and now all I see are fucktards.
I know I’m wrong. I hope one day to believe it.
Amen to that
I’m not having luck. I will always have hope, but almost two years out and I’ve yet to rock or be rocked by anyone. They all do seem so shallow. I will have patience and keep painting (living my life). I will find her some day.
Or she will find you.
Yes. I will always have hope.
Just curious Marked, how are you meeting others? I am over six years out, but realized early on that I needed to grieve, and heal (and fix myself) and I am, just now, beginning to look at men again. I have trust issues though and don’t yet know what I’d do with one… ?Like many of us here, I married young and spent twenty eight years together. The affair blindsided me. As had the two years before Dday and the two years (divorcing) after. Marriage was pretty typical, a lot of it was good, until it wasn’t. I am pretty sure I will stumble across someone when I least expect it (it’s “numbers” when it comes to meeting someone who appeals). I just don’t have the energy to wade through it all yet.
Drew, I live in downtown Chicago, so I pretty much have to interact with lots of people daily. It’s just on a very impersonal level. I tried some dating web sites and shut that down because all the women seemed very shallow or nuts. I will always have hope, because I think I now know what to avoid. Good luck to you, just don’t give up hope. Life is better when shared with the right person. I’ll find her some day. 🙂
I bet most of us were with disordered assholes. Research the CLUSTER B disorders,the subtle and not so subtle signs. This helps weed out these assholes.
This may spark the idea of a chumps-only dating site. There seems to be a higher level of quality here, as well as the hard-earned ability to appreciate the simpler joys of a healthy relationship.
Engagement rings? None offered. I bought both mine and his wedding bands. Birthday or anniversary gifts? None. Don’t make me laugh. How about just a kiss and a heart-felt good morning? How about sex? Or just being present for relationships? Yes, my requirements have been lowered because of decades of deprivation, but my standards have now been raised due to my picker being fixed. Kindness, intelligence, honesty– I don’t think looking for these qualities could be construed as using a man as a stepping stone.
For years, I was the major breadwinner. I often had two jobs to his one. I did all the heavy lifting in parenting. I paid off his student loans. Then when I stayed home with our children? Suddenly I was of no account, completely replaceable.
Right after D-day and the divorce, I did feel like Steve about the opposite gender and was convinced I’d never be interested in dating again. But after time and healing, I see that I would like to meet someone of integrity who understands reciprocity in relationships. Being in Meh and soaking in the bliss of a cheater-free life has restored my hope that there is still a man out there who will be thrilled to share his life with me. He probably would have to be a Chump himself to get it.
My heart goes out to all the Chumps out there, male or female. Give yourself time, believe in your own worth, and raise your standards.
By the way, I just turned 52 and I’m feeling healthier than I have in about 20 years.
One day you may be ready to test the waters again dont rush yourself. I too am gunshy 25 years married thirty together and i am on the i dont want another man ever ride myself. I am starting over and rediscovering me. I want to breathe and be free, have things my way for a change. If someday i am ready to date ill try. I will never marry again thats a done deal. But maybe someday a close gentleman friend woyld be nice if it happens it happens if it doesnt thats ok too. I just want to be me. Theres plenty good mates out there. Do i wish asswipe happiness hell no but me after his shit. I deserve some happiness and so do you.
“Don’t be shallow, and don’t attract shallow.”
Amen! This is exactly why I don’t worry a hell of a lot about how I look. It really is true, ” How you get them is how you lose them. ” If someone’s main attraction to you is the way you look, one day you will “slip” a little and someone else will look real good to them.
And it’s so weird, now that I’ve gotten older, “good looking” people just don’t really seem that impressive, lol.
My first thought after reading this is….where are you looking for and finding women? Then, I thought, what are you looking for in a woman? How to you assess a woman? I had a very good friend who was always looking for the Pamela Anderson to his Bill Gates. He was pretty shallow in what a woman must be. So for years, that’s what he got. None of us who know him quite figured out when he took that long look into himself and realized he wasn’t looking for happiness but we’re glad he eventually did. He is now happily married to a middle aged mother of two that he met in a bookstore. He asked her a question about a book she was examining because it was on his reading list and she gave a thoughtful intelligent answer. She turned out to be like a lot of my friends, a good person so turned off from dating that she took herself out of the dating pool. my point is stop looking in the places you’re supposed to look for dates. Go meet people in their natural settings doing the things they like. Go do the things you like without the ulterior motive of finding someone. You never know who you will find. I found an amazing man in my PTSD therapy group. He had given up on ever finding someone and I was not planning to date anyone I found in therapy. Seriously, how shallow was I? Yet, here I am, working with someone I adore to have an intentionally healthy relationship. Go ahead, chumps, someone beat for the weirdest place to find a significant other.
My ex is an incredibly beautiful woman on the outside. Ugliest person I have ever known on the inside. The outside is meaningless if it is not matched on the inside.
My ex is also very good looking, and French on top, just to add that extra veneer of sophistication and an adorable accent. But on the inside, he’s a petulant 3 year old, a really unpleasant one, and about as interesting as well. He’s pretty good at love-bombing, though! After Schmoopie dumped him, I hear it took less than a week on Match for him to get into a ‘serious relationship’.
CBL
This is the biggest con of all. Looks are deceiving. We always need to focus on the actions. I was duped by the small acts of kindness that were intermittently dispersed.
My bar wasn’t high enough. Right from the beginning I was being conditioned. He would say things like, “My family doesn’t think your good enough.”
He told my granddaughter his mother didn’t like the OW. Let the games begin.
It’s interesting how the use the same game with the next victim. He has a nack for splitting and spinning. Once I recognized this so many pieces fit. The torture was always deliberate.
Why don’t we see it? Who would recognize such underhanded deviance? It’s well hidden until it’s not. And they decide when to let it surface. Sick fucks.
“My bar wasn’t high enough. Right from the beginning I was being conditioned. He would say things like, “My family doesn’t think your good enough.”
What an asshole. And I’m sure he didn’t defend you to his family when they said this. One of my exes said this to me. He was a total wimp. He said his family thought he could do better than me, so I retorted: ” you’re right, that’s why I’m outta here!”. He couldn’t believe I would dump him for that. I sure as hell wasn’t going to marry into a fucked up family like that, where I’d have to prove my worth. So many undeserving women marry into great families, who kiss these women’s butts. And here I was a great person, and I was being told I’m not good enough. I thought to myself, F- you all. I don’t need this shit. My ex was in shock, but I was in even more shock that I he didn’t defend me to his family. That’s when I knew I was dealing with a coward and a wimp. Haven’t regretted dumping his ass once. Truth his, he wasn’t good enough for me. And 3 years after I dumped him, he contacted me saying how he still thought of me. I just pressed “delete” without a second thought. Asshole.
My ex said the same thing, specifically his mother and brother. It definitely set the tone, as I had a lot of work to do to be acceptable. And there was nothing inferior about me! He did that, and it diminished my sense of self worth.
I like this, but I’m going to add emphasis: “HE did that. . . ” Yep. And HE is a cruel good-for-nothing. If his family joined in (can’t tell if he just said it or if they and he said it), then they’re a whole pack of cruel good-for-nothings.
Kellia
Little did I know the more I did for tbem the worse it became. What I finally figured out was that HE was always complaining about his family to me and complaining to his family about everything I did.
For example, he complained to his mother about me spending money on private schools for my children.
Then he would come home and tell me his mother was complaining about the money I was spending on private schools for my children.
Years and years of this shit.
You were smart to leave that family dynamic.
“What I finally figured out was that HE was always complaining about his family to me and complaining to his family about everything I did.”
That’s just horrible Doingme. I can’t believe that he was badmouthing you behind your back and to his own family!! This makes me so angry! what a jackass!! I’m so very sorry you were married to such a scumbag. At least, you’re divorced now and don’t have to deal with this kind of mental damage and scarring. I’m surprised you didn’t go insane with this jerk. Big hugs to you!!
Thank you Kellia! Loving the new normal.
Peaky
I stopped associating with his entire family years ago. The sickness in that family is beyond dysfunction. He made me believe I saved him from their selfish pettiness. He’s just like the rest.
The best revenge ever is to never engage with the assholes. Hugs to you!
Doingme?KB22, I understand that whole story you told completely! I eventually turned it around on him and started telling my fam/friends all of the nasty things he was doing and he would say, “I hope you didn’t tell them xyz” and I said, I SURE DID! Even the part where you tell your family everything and then they bully me. Now you know how it feels to have your whole entire relationship replayed for you right in front of your eyes by people that are not in it! In yer face a-hole!
Even if his family had said they thought he could do better, why on earth would anyone repeat a vile, insulting remark? My cheating ex-fiancee (from many, many years ago) basically said the same thing to me, he said his friends thought he could do better. Why I did not dump him right then and there I’ll never know, took him getting another woman (girl really, she was only 19) pregnant for me to finally dump him. The kicker is I have done rather well in my lifetime and he is a train wreck. Of course he is a certified sociopath. Anyway, passing these supposed remarks along to you is to keep you in your place and be ever so grateful that he is actually with you. I think the best response to these vile remarks would be to turn the tables and say you know your family/friend is right and by the way as much as I have tried I cannot get past your (tattoos, bad teeth, substandard job, fat stomach, skinny legs, small shoulders, etc.) fill in the blank and hit them where it will bother the hell out of them.
“passing these supposed remarks along to you is to keep you in your place and be ever so grateful that he is actually with you.”
You nailed it exactly KB22! His comments were training me to know my place and that was “beneath him” and his family. He was teaching me right off the bat where I stood in the pecking order, and that was last, after everyone else. I was being groomed to feel inferior. And growing up in a fucked up family, I sure as hell as knew this shit doesn’t get better, but worse. As a child I had no control over being crapped on by my parents, but as an adult, I sure as hell wasn’t going to throw myself into the lion’s mouth after seeing the signs. NFW.
WhichWay — I’m so sorry. And IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT. None of it. You did the best you could. You survived unbearable abuse. You GOT HELP. Know how many don’t? Millions. You kept at it. You’re still keeping at it. You’re exhausted, I know. Promise to stay away from traffic, and promise to keep posting here?
What do you mean by what “meant most to you in life”?
Please, for the love of God, don’t compare your situation or reaction to it with ANYONE else’s. I broke at 25, partly for the same reason you did. I got help, worked hard, got better.
But I wasn’t married. And that matters.
As for recognizing the abuse, the timing of my or anyone else’s response to it? IT DOESN’T MATTER. We all did the best we could.
There’s nothing wrong with not being a prodigy about recognizing and rejecting abuse.
You’re brave as hell. Stronger than you know. You can do this. LOTS of hugs.
ClaireS, thank you so much for your response. I certainly went through a period where I beat myself up for “letting” the abuse happen. And even at this late date it feels odd calling it abuse, as I know that none of it was intentional on my mother’s part – accepting that abuse can be unintentional is a difficult lesson.
With my ex and her son I felt like finally, after 30 years alive, I had found my place in the world. I finally belonged somewhere, someone finally got me. The therapist I had at the time, who I’ve since left because she failed me in more ways than one, suggested that I was only able to confront my FOO issues when I did because for the first time in my life I felt safe. When my ex left it destroyed that place I felt I had in the world. I’ve been going to codependency meetings for the last two years and it’s helped some: the meetings are probably one of few reasons I’m still here. But I’m still an introvert with social anxiety and depression: my prospects for ever matching up with someone else are slim to none. So, I had what I had always wanted – a calm, happy (as much as was possible for me, and for her, I thought) family life where the members of the family actually liked each other, something that was vastly different than my experience as a child.
I’m sorry that you experience something similar. Yes, I’m exhausted. I have been for a very long time. I know my ex didn’t owe me her love, but it’s frigging hard to accept that I’m not owed something after all this time. I have to remind myself of a favorite movie quote, this one from Clint Eastwood’s Unforgiven: “Deserve’s got nothing to do with it”.
It always amazes me how some people grow up with FOO issues, recognize it, and shout never again!, while others, like me, think the way it was is the way it should be. When I was in my mid-30s and finally realized how fucked up my childhood had been it practically tore me apart. I did all of the stuff I was “supposed” to do: I went to therapy, I treated my partner with love and respect and made it clear that it had nothing to do with her. I readily acknowledged that my major depressive disorder made me not much fun to be around for that last year of working through my FOO stuff, but I had thought she loved me enough to stick by me. Nope.
Today is two years since she left me. I feel completely mauled by life. I thought the family I pieced together as an adult was my reward for surviving the emotionally incestuous relationship I was forced into with my mother. I had struggled and made it. And then it was ripped away. I’m probably 80% over blaming myself for the loss of my partner and who I thought was my best friend, but I’m nowhere close to over the pain of losing what meant most to me in life. I admit that I’m wallowing in victimhood and the unfairness of it all. It’s some comfort to read that others understand the deep despair. My biggest accomplishment most days is not playing in traffic.
I’m thrilled for those of you who have managed to move beyond this and redefined yourselves. I’m envious as well.
WhichWa ((((HUGS)))
Thanks, Kimberly.
I was in my thirties when I did finally marry (engaged twice previously) and my husband’s family was a bit dysfunctional (father a narc, mother a master manipulator, one brother a neat freak narc, think Sleeping with the Enemy) and from the get go they tried to make me feel inferior to my husband’s ex-wife, the mother of his children. While I actually get along and like the ex, she did cheat on my husband, an exit affair of sorts, and she tried to hide funds while divorcing. For about a year it just boggled my mind that they absolutely made no bones about preferring her not only over me, but my husband as well. The final straw was when his nut case brother and my husband’s ex-wife co-hosted “The (surname) Family Christmas party on Christmas eve. We never said a word, just didn’t show up and made other plans for Christmas day as well. Get this, the whole family was upset with us! My husband’s (now ex) sister-in-law gave us the dirt on what was said at Christmas dinner, raked me over the coals and talked about how jealous and insecure I was, etc. My husband (finally) exploded and let them all have it, reminding them that his x did cheat and try to screw him over and never once did his brother bother to ask him if he minded co-hosting a party with ex. I eventually let them all have it as well called them out on the manipulations and basic dysfunctional behavior. However that episode (there were many others) was the defining point that I realized, yes they all knew how much my husband’s ex hurt him, they just didn’t give a rat’s ass. Anyway they all walk around on eggshells when around me now. We also left the state and have a very strained long distance relationship. Ok rambled on quite enough but I think we have to call out or walk away from anyone that tries to make us feel not good about ourselves be it friends or family.
I’d agree. Good looking people at my age are mostly ‘augmenting’ their looks to stay young. THEY ARE FAKE. That tells me enough. Natural beauty is much more desirable to me.
I am still going through the divorce process and attempting to understand how the man I loved actually loved another man for our entire 30 year marriage. Fear of dating again?! OMG yes!!! But as much as I have discovered true hate for this one man, I see good honorable men all around. And the guy chumps here are amazing fathers and human beings. Surely you have noticed the many kind, interesting, supportive females here? Perhaps at middle aged we are all a little jaded and bitter about learning certain truths in this life. Those rainbow farting unicorns are even more rare than we dared to imagine. But the steady plow horse, possibly lame, is a valuable and noble beast. Maybe what some women thought they wanted from a man has become more centered on character and grace as they aged. Particularly women who have themselves been chumped and discarded. I reject your thesis and hope that you will discover true measningful love someday soon. I wish that for all of us.
Such a good post!
For Steve, my favorite part: “I see good honorable men all around. And the guy chumps here are amazing fathers and human beings. Surely you have noticed the many kind, interesting, supportive females here?”
Today a young woman asked me if I thought I’d ever date again. I’m in my mid-50’s, divorced six years, living alone with a cat (let’s hear it for the stereotype), my kids are on their own–no reason I couldn’t date–except that I don’t want to. I really like being the boss of me. I like making the dinner I want to eat, coming home from work late if I want, not keeping the house white-glove clean if I don’t want to, the house staying clean when I clean it, not answering for every item on the grocery store receipt and then hearing what a crappy steak I pick out, being chewed out for not being ready to leave on trips at the arbitrary time he chooses–never mind that I pack for the both of us, three kids, and kennel the dog without any assistance from the general. No, thank you. I am single and loving it. There is NOTHING in the manual that says I have to replace that unreliable old model with another one.
I don’t hate all men and I don’t think they’re all narcissistic, porn-addicted, navel gazers–but enough of them are to make me very protective of my hard-fought peace. I’m flying solo and loving the view. So, I won’t say never, but I can certainly say–no time soon and it won’t be because I went looking for it.
Is there something about cheaters that they can’t pack their own shit for trips? Mine did this too. He would insist I pack and then be upset about the things I brought for him every time. One time, I got fed up with it and told him I wasn’t packing for him when we went to his brother’s house. He threw a fit and tossed half of the contents of his dresser into a black trash bag and, somehow, I was made to feel like shit about it by him and his brother when we got there. Not him for acting like a man-child. This was the first year of our marriage. I should have realized what a jerk I was dealing with then. But, noooo. I felt like I was being a lazy wife and all wives were supposed to do these type of things.
I also am not looking for any type of “replacement” relationship. After a very long term marriage, I am content to be alone. For the first time in my adult life, I am able to live the life I choose. My needs and wants always came last and, while my kids were young, that was as it should be. I had perfected the art of “compromise”. As I enter the last year of my fifties, the mere thought of remarriage makes me break out in hives-not because I am afraid of infidelity, but because I do not want surrender my freedom. I know my opinion may change as I continue to process all the things that I went through. For now, though, I am ok with myself.
Violet, NMSB, I feel the same way you both do during this time in my life.
I am also mid fifties! I am almost two years out and doing things that me, myself and I enjoy! Mine relationship was long term as well.
I have found that I am a little less knee jerky these days and the flinching is subsiding.
I still “am” Me: good,decent, funny, smart, witty, goofy, compassionate and quite capable of a lot!
I will not be stripped of me!
I might have been chumped, bamboozled, used and discarded but I have and will continue to strive and survive.
Relationship, not on my radar right now, but time will tell.
I try to remember don’t ever say never.
Yes,the peace of living alone. Very much an improvement. I have a nice girlfriend I trust. Not sure either of us could live together.
Violet. I agree. I’m tired of putting other people’s needs first. I won’t surrender my freedom!
This put a smile on my face making me remember my grandma who died this winter at the age of 99 1/2 with all her faculties and a great sense of humor. A week before she died a doctor asked her what she attributed her longevity and happiness to and her response was “I haven’t been married since the 70’s”. I get it grandma!!!!
Single women live longer than married women. Married men live longer than single men. Wonder why.
That’s it….”…..I do not want to surrender my freedom.”
Renee-me too. I love my freedom. No more walking on eggshells, no more stress, no more tension, no more negativity, no more raging, no more drunken stupors, no more drama, no more self inflicted major fucking problems, no more passive aggressive vengeance, no more me being responsible for every fucking thing. And to think I grieved over that relationship??? LOL. I feel more at peace everyday. I like doing exactly what I want to do. Or not do.
Every single word you just said, exactly!
Here, here Renee! We all deserve a Peace of our choosing, with or without a mate. Congrats on finding your Peace at present, with the door always open to expand on it, if you choose.
Hallelujah sister, I hear you. I like being the boss of me. Anything else seems like too much work.
Right now I think relationships are too much work and have decided to take an early retirement!
NMSB
Early retirement sounds amazing. You will have to visit the NE chumps!
“I won’t say never, but I can certainly say–no time soon and it won’t be because I went looking for it.”
AMEN, Renee! I’m 52, was married 20+ years, and going on 6 years divorced. I’m in no rush to find a replacement either. (Raising my hand… adopted a cat who I now strongly suspect is a narc, but he’s a LOT easier to live with than a man-child!!!)
When you find peace with yourself, you find that being single is quite nice. I am older and wiser… I trust in myself enough not to be quick to trust men I’ve just met. It takes a LONG time to REALLY get to know someone. I spend time asking questions, listening to, and observing people. I want to get a feel for what kind of person they are, how they treat others…
(The best dating tip I have to offer: Don’t share a lot of personal info about yourself right out of the gate. That’s a surefire way to set yourself up for attracting another narc.)
Renee, I dreaded “fun trips” too. How can they be fun when someone sits on the couch looking angry because you are taking “too long” to pack? A simple thank you for all the back breaking work you are doing while I get to sit on my ass and do nothing would have sufficed. I forgot about how annoying that was.
I was relieved when my then-H had to leave before us to go on trips (because he was giving a talk somewhere). Otherwise, he was critical of how busy I was while packing & preparing (never helped with the kids’ packing), then would criticize me for having checked luggage, even for a 3-week trip. Not to mention the cold shoulder once we were on our way, to pay me back for having been stressed about preparing for the trips. Traveling is so much more fun now.
I had the same experience Tempest! I’m with KarenE! Traveling with the kid is pretty much a joy now. We have so much fun just the two of us! No one screaming at the gate agent trying to get an upgrade. No more pressure because I am packing for everyone while he sits there and complains I am taking so much time. No more whining about the cost even though we didn’t ask to go with him.
Yes, traveling is easier and much more enjoyable. The kids and I have fun and relax. It was so stressful with him!!!
Gosh, yes. Did all the packing(except his, very OCD about his things and appearance), racing around getting everything done. Once we’d get there, more racing around to “see” everything. Me holding a purse, his camera case, his extra lenses, a diaper bag, a backpack with snacks and frozen water bottles, pushing a stroller and holding onto the oldest son’s hand (6 months pregnant with baby #3 and in danger of another pre term labor- advised to take it easy by the dr). All while he charged ahead snapping pictures of things. No pictures of the boys or I on those “vacations”. coming home just exhausted. All while he tells everybody what a great time we had!
Oh gosh, Tempest, you’re giving me flashbacks about travelling with the narc ex! He just had to spoil things, and had ZERO appreciation for how much work I did to make trips go well with small children.
Came back a couple of weeks ago from a big trip just with the kids – it was so EASY and fun! He’s an idiot for having thrown us away.
I’ve long thought you and I married doppelgangers, KarenE.
The women you are describing (who use men for their own purposes) sound like the woman my husband ran off with. She told him he would have to work hard to ‘keep her interested’. SHE told me that I didn’t manage him properly (I trusted him too much, gave him too much freedom) and that’s why he cheated! Now he’s working his butt off trying to please her and she treats him like garbage. He told me recently that it bothers him that she uses a phone app to meet other men for coffee (coffee? Her? Are you serious?). I actually laughed at how gullible he is.
It was good to read this post as I have been feeling pretty discouraged. The women I know who keep their husbands on a short leash: who restrict their freedom, choose their husband’s friends, who ambitiously look for higher paid jobs for them, who criticise them, put them down in front of others, who withhold in the bedroom to punish their men, who plunge their families further into debt and spend money on frivolous things – these women are still married.
I was not a perfect wife, but I made kindness, selflessness and faithfulness an important part of the way I conducted myself. I enjoyed my husband. I supported him and listened to him with his work. I did not try to control him. I looked after the children and cleaned the house without complaint. I was careful with money, knowing how hard he worked for it. I loved him. And in the times I didn’t feel like I loved him, I behaved as though I did. All this through 20 years of marriage. Feeling very disillusioned at this moment in my life, not just about men, but about a lot of things.
I agree, Leah. Steve is also describing the OW in my situation. I am very laid-back and gave my then-husband tons of freedom. He’s now married to the OW who appears to be very controlling of him. She made sure to pick a sucker who would marry her and let her boss him around (which my ex is the perfect candidate for since he’s so needy), and she jumped from being dependent in one marriage to another. She doesn’t have a college degree or a job. She sounds like the classic gold digger, and I think that many OW are.
Anyone who has been cheated on should remember that the people who cheated on us are often the cheater partners in someone else’s marriage; the ex’s Owife blew up her own marriage and family. Cheaters are exactly how Steve describes, male or female, so what I think we can avoid is involving ourselves with any cheaters in the future. If someone you’re dating admits to cheating, just walk away. I think that very few cheaters are actually remorseful, bother to work on themselves, and change for the better. If you date a former cheater, you should expect more of the same. Those are the people to avoid.
+1
I was the same. Everything he ever wanted, he got and I figured he was working for it so he could have it. I know (and tried to live) the Bible verse that living on a corner of roof is better than living with a contentious woman. And he even said that I was easily pleased! Still wasn’t enough for him.
Leah
Interestingly enough the whore he rode keeps him on a short leash. There is something to be said about the desperation and neediness he interprets as attention and love.
With me he had independence and the ability to develop his potential without interference. Instead he chose to spend his money getting cheap hotels with classless dimwits.
In the end it’s all about instant gratification. I’ve listened to their phone messages and he is probably fulfilling some sleazy porn fantasy of fucking an ugly saggy tit aging pristitute that talks like a man. Go figure.
From intelligence to brainless
From attractive to ugly
From a professional making good money to a slut who does drugs
From a kind loving spontaneous wife to a bar slug who fucks anyone.
Are all men like this? No. Trust the cheater sucks.
^^^^Sounds exactly like the one my husband cheated with too.
“There is something to be said about the desperation and neediness he interprets as attention and love.”
That is certainly true. STBX’s bunny boiler is the complete opposite of me. She lacks morals, is a drug user, has low self esteem, and overall has a trashy persona. Even though she is no longer in the picture, he still insists she is a good person deep down. No, a good person doesn’t willfully cheat on her fiancee nor does she seek to destroy another’s family for her benefit. Amazing how someone can twist reality so that their own truth isn’t so ugly.
Leah,
“she told me I didn’t mange him properly” How exactly do you manage a person?
I can so relate to what you are saying. I didn’t keep my stbxh on a short leash or control him either. I had people tell me I gave my husband too much freedom. The truth I do not want a relationship where I can’t trust my partner to behave appropriate with freedom. We can not control other people and we will drive ourselves mad trying to. After 28years together my stbxh moved out two and a half months ago to live with OW (who is similar to what Steve described). Yep..she was going to make him all kinds of happy. Guess what he is a miserable man these days. She is making his life a living hell. Men and women with horrible character and indecent morals and values don’t ever win. We need to take our time to heal and grieve the relationship we once thought we had so we can open our hearts to receive true genuine love. There are decent honorable men and women out there but sometimes we have been so damaged we lose site of what we are worth and what we truly deserve. That’s why it is important for us to take time to heal. So we can realize it is their lost not ours.
I was where you are. It took me years to recover enough to even be interested in women again, and then I was certain that no woman could be trusted to actually want me and not my wallet. Yes, me self-esteem was decimated after the hell I went though.
Then, seemingly out of nowhere when I was not really looking, that one in a million woman came along that I thought could not possibly exist. Of all the wonderful qualities that make her great, I think the best is that she is a fellow chump. Some dumb ass was actually stupid enough to hurt this special human being.
My take? Find a fellow chump. Anybody that has been hurt as badly as we have would never dream of hurting another like that. Instead, we want a relationship for all the right reasons, and we will value it like it should be valued. Yes, all the other compatibility aspects still need to bet here, but if you find a chump, you have found yourself a winner.
CbL, Congrats on finding a good one! My experience has been that being a chump doesn’t automatically qualify someone as a good catch… I dated some men whose wives cheated on them and they were deeply hurt by it, BUT as I got to know them, they weren’t all really nice guys. Some have domineering personalities or are rigid in their world views… Not the kind of person I am looking for. You just really need to pay attention to finding out what kind of person they are and if they are compatible!!! I’m curious if other members of CN have had that experience when dating another chump?
High Five ChumpedbyLoser High Five!!!!
This is my story too, wonderful, loving people (Men and women) do exist, and i suspect everyone posting on this site is one of those wonderful people.
+1
GF was thumped. Most loyal person I know.
Leah, those women put a high false value on themselves , and unfortunately a lot of men will believe it. At least for a while. Ex’s whore sure put a high value on herself, but guess what, it was all a fraud, just like the two of them.
The high value wears thin when she wakes up one day and realizes she wasn’t that special after all, just filler until the next. Seriously, if they cheat on their wife why wouldn’t they do the same to the easy lay with no integrity.
And he wakes up one day and looks at the dingy apartment, has to go to the laundry mat, take her dog for a walk, has to entertain her son and hold a baby and the fantasy bubble pops. It’s vacation time again for her birthday and he hadn’t paid off last years trip.
That greener grass is a shit show. It gets two thumbs down.
We got the real prize, freedom.
Doingme, yep grandfather daddy traded down, real down. 30 yr younger and magically new baby arrived! Yep, Co howorker, part timer oh yeah!
Petet Pan’s new world sporting scumbalina with stroller.
I wonder how many times assclown will be asked, “oh are you the grandfather.”
Indeed!
Sad story but a true story!
Lucky girl! Lol
“Seriously, if they cheat on their wife why wouldn’t they do the same to the easy lay with no integrity.”
^ My STBX is a testament to that line. There was a Player 4 in the game, another ho-worker who has a crush on him, which he used as a fuckbuddy to get the OW jealous. At first I was nauseous finding out, but now it seems almost laughable!!! STBW claims OW is ‘his destiny’ but his actions clearly shows that OW is just another pawn in his sick game! LOL…
I am so glad to be on my way out of this madness…
I couldn’t help but reading this post as “X-Human is suspicious of all Y-humans because I was hurt by a Y-human.” — Men, Women, narcissists, golddiggers, young, old, … whatever.
Here’s a woman chump’s story, just to let you know not every woman is like those you’re worried about: When I was little, every day I saw my dad come home from his job and not do a damn thing. He had worked that day, and he brought home the money, so my mom did EVERYTHING else and had all the power. So I thought, “OK, if *I* am the wage-earner, then my husband will wait for ME at the end of each day wearing nothing by an apron and a smile, right?” — I joke, but you catch the meaning. *I* was the moneymaker in the family. And I still got chumped. Why & how is irrelevant and utterly uninteresting at this time in my life (2+ years post Dday).
Here’s what else has happened: Tonight I had dinner with some married friends. There was a single guy there. He seemed nice. No sparks or anything, but if he wanted to go out, I would go (he lives far away, so logistics issues). I don’t think he makes any amount of money at his job. — And a couple weeks ago, an old college friend and his teenage son stayed at my house while visiting my Alaskan town. He was nice. I totally would have gone for him, but he has a girlfriend. — Neither of these guys is anything to look at, especially, and god knows they aren’t rich! But they’re intelligent, kind, funny, … adults. And so, to me, they’re attractive.
I, OTOH, am kinda cute (also about 50), make good money, smart, funny, but, y’know? I’m 50. So I’m a bit saggy. My teeth are crooked. I have some wrinkles. If there ever is another guy, he’ll have to cope with that. Also, whoever wrote about all guys wanting sex? That wasn’t XH, that was me.
So, my point is, be careful with the stereotypes. It seemed after the divorce, all I saw were guys gaping after much younger women (a la XH) and it sickened me. Now I see there are mature men who act appropriately. — You’ll find your woman, Steve. She won’t be a golddigger or a narcissist or a cheater. We aren’t all “like that” and you aren’t all “like that” either. We’re all just human — some good, some bad — gotta pick a good one, right? Good luck.
Sorry, that’s supposed to say “my DAD had all the power.” Oops.
Steve’s pretty early out after fighting for divorce for 2.5 years. I’m sure he’ll change his mind about women, but really does need to take some time being alone for a while.
Being alone is not bad at all – One poster here, can’t remember her name, explained it best. She’s enjoying her freedom. Eats when she wants, does what she wants, goes to bed when she wants.
That’s pretty much what I’m doing! I travel with friends, eat out with friends and/or my girls and sometimes alone. I work hard and most days I just cook supper, watch a bit of TV and then head to bed. Too tired for much else. It is very peaceful right now.
I was with my ex for 30 years – since I was 17, and I know for a fact that I was a good wife.
There are women out there who don’t want much. I know all I wanted was a partner in life. Someone to love, help with the children and chores. Someone to confide in and just to be there for each other. But life isn’t easy and I most certainly didn’t get what I wanted.
What I got was a selfish, self centered 5 year old, sex addict, alcoholic – who’d pitch a fit if you looked at him the wrong way. He’s a very angry man. Today his freedom is gone as he married on of his affair partners, a sugar momma who keeps him on a very tight leash. She has the money, so they travel all the time and she’s a big drinker too, so they have that in common. I’m pretty sure they are swingers which was always something he’d want to do that I just simply didn’t want any part of. That’s just not in my makeup.
It sucks at this age (52) to be having to start all over. Nobody marries their partner with the thought that this will happen – but it does and a lot too!
So at 52, I’m enjoying my peace. Would I like someone in my life? Maybe… but Maybe not. Relationships take work, and I’m just not ready yet to do it again. Yes, as CL says – love is a risk. You need to make your own decisions as to whether or not it’s worth it. Hopefully by the time you do, you’ll have centered yourself a bit so that you can look @ it objectively instead of emotionally. It’s all a business arrangement in the end.
Good luck to everyone here in that aspect – no matter what you choose.
.
Hi Steve, woman chump here, and I get your lack of trust. What I wanted was so little, a friend, a partner, a helpmeet, someone who was steady and had my back whilst we worked together for the good of our family and the good of our kids, made friends and had some fun as well. I don’t think that is too much to ask, but it is what I wanted out of life.
I simply cannot imagine having a relationship. I cannot imagine that a man exists who is interested in what I want, above. Especially now he is not genetically connected to my wonderful children. So because I cannot imagine it, it must not exist.
That is very philosophical, and very sad, and very understandable, Patsy. But I can tell you right now that there are men who want the same thing, so you should feel certain that we do, indeed, exist.
Thanks Oaktree for your kindness.
I am cynical too about it.
I think it’s “possible” to find a good man, just not for me.
After being chumped and seeing all of the “high-fiving” that goes on between men about cheating, I honestly think that most men operate simply as “Vagina Collection Agents” and somehow we are supposed to get that being married to us is a “big favor” to us, so if they “slip” into a vagina, we are supposed to shrug it off knowing that it’s such a pain to be a husband.
I was on the other side of the fence. I was, actually still am, financially dependent on my STBX. I don’t EVER want to be in this situation again. I have a job interview tomorrow, and then, once the divorce is final (hurry up already guy!), I’m going back to school and getting a degree in IT. I am NEVER EVER going to rely on a man and his income ever again. I want to be financially independent and able to take care of my kids and myself.
That’s the reason I got an education, because I knew I could always take care of myself if something happened. My mom would constantly complain to my father that the money he gave her for groceries was never enough.
Also, when I was younger, I saw my aunt turn 36 yrs of age and somber into a major desperation crisis and married the next loser that came along. I always looked up to her, she drove a yellow sports car, had a great job, dressed beautifully, and along came her future husband, who had never held a steady job. He told he he’d take care of her. The instant she got married, she quit her job, gave ALL of her life savings to her husband, who took her money, and bought a 7/11 convenient store, which failed after 2 years. He dwindled all her money, they had to declare bankruptcy, and ended up on Welfare since then. It’s a disaster story. I never wanted to end up like my mom or my aunt, so I really made it a point to get an education, which I’m incredibly grateful that I can take care of myself. Best decision ever!
Kellia
The reason I wNt back to school was because I never wanted to be dependent on him. It’s never too late! I graduated at 42.
Ha! I graduated at 50. And I wasn’t even the oldest in my class! She was 60 and she rocks.
Hi Steve my fellow Chump. I found out last year that my wife of 24 years has a special someone. She told me after I found out that it involved going on Ashley Madison looking for a Fuckbuddy but finding love. She said she needed to follow her passions after years of denying them and that it was the “most difficult” thing she had ever done and required tremendous courage…..
My point is that shortly after D-Day I began attending a “Survivors of affairs” group in my town. Sort of like Alcohol Anonymous for Chumps. The majority of the members are female. Oh my God the stories …. So many of them would bring a tear to a glass eye. After attending these meetings no one could possibly be sexist about the issue of betrayal.
I don’t hate or mistrust all women – on the contrary,I think maybe I need to do some serious self-improvements before any woman would be willing to share her life with me at this point. Something about the last relationship I was in wore me down a little.
A big problem I have is that, somehow, my stbxw seems to have found that magic formula. The guy she left me for is, from what I know, not a total asshole (although the jury’s out – how could he do this?). He has an interesting job that he apparently does well. He plays guitar, and dotes on my stbxw just like any one of us would love to be loved. He’s good at sex – I know this because she told me. They went out for 5 years during her college years (25 years ago). When she was with me, like somebody else said, things were mostly good until they weren’t. I could see her keeping her shit together with him for the rest of her life. As much as I’d like for their relationship to crash and burn, I really don’t think it will. And here I am, thinking I’m going to be one of those people that just never reconnects with another living soul. Life ain’t fair and then you die, I guess.
Oaktree
“Life ain’t fair and then you die, I guess.”
Life ain’t fair (because you were married to an emotionally abusive liar/cheater), and then you leave and you LIVE. I think you have done the leaving part, but not yet fully the living part.
I think we all want them to be miserable because if they cheat and leave and they are happy, then obviously that means that there is something wrong with us. And that’s the reason they cheated. That clearly we deserved to be betrayed. But that just isn’t true. What she did to you was intentional and it was wrong. She is a shitty human being. It doesn’t matter if she will be deleriously happy with him until the day she dies. That is, it doesn’t matter (should not matter) to you, because with you she was abusive.
Do reflect on and improve yourself, for you. I’m guessing that when you start liking and being happy with yourself, then you will feel like life might not be fair, but that it’s worth living. And you won’t care if your XW is happy, sad or dead, because you will be focused on you. And that type of inner knowledge and confidence in oneself is incredibly attractive because it is authentic. It will shine out of you.
You’re right, Brightness. I guess I have a good amount of work to do! Thank you for your response.
Oaktree
Self improvement is the way forward. Fixing our picker comes later. I’m working on demanding respect, learning to say NO and putting myself first for a change. They do a number on us and getting into another relationship will be when I’m ready. Getting there slow but sure.
I know you’re right, Doingme.
“The guy she left me for is, from what I know, not a total asshole (although the jury’s out – how could he do this?). ”
If he’s knowingly dating a married woman, he’s a total asshole.
The ability to smile at strangers, make pleasant smalltalk, and not poop on the carpet, does not compensate for the complete and utter lack of character required to do this.
“NO adultery!” [better translation than “Thou shalt not – captures more of the tone and grammar of the Hebrew original] is in the top ten, not just in the Abrahamic religions, but in literally. every. single. ethical code humanity /ever/ wrote down. It is /literally/ the yardstick of civilization. Anyone who opts out of that is, among other things, definitely “a total asshole”.
Heat death,
Thank you for writing that regarding adultery. It validates me when I feel like I am truly going to tip over into the badlands of crazy town and live there, after his cheating eviscerated me.
I know I am a fool, but I wish my X had seen that, knew that…had some moral compass that would have made him see that peeking over the fence is just a type of greed.
We could of had it all (I coulda been a contender!) but he just….believes that to be monogamous makes HIM a chump. It is this strange, selfish mindset that he is entitled to huge amounts of random pussy. (And that is the word HE uses). He truly believes this. He thinks that if he is not fucking around, he is missing out on something critical for happiness.
He wanted to have me in a box (100% faithful, responsible, and sitting at home waiting for him) AND he wants to fuck skanks behind my back and then come to me and play house. I could tell…it made him feel like a stud to have all of this sick secrets and relationships. His “fun” broke me.
In an appalling moment, he actually said, 1% remorseful: I guess I wanted my cake and to eat it, too.
And there is was. And there is no where to go with that.
One thing that trips me up (catastrophically) is how much fun we would have at times. Laughing, talking, amazing sex, doing a chore together was an ecstatic errand, for me. Boy, he was a good actor.
Did not matter.
Does not compute.
I know the type. Matter of fact, I live on an island where that mind set is the norm among men. I could never understand how the measure of a man is how many women he can lure into having sex with him at the expense of the respect of his family. Even his friends who pat him on the back are thinking what a fool he is. And I will say it again, if it was such a good thing to be proud of, if they really didn’t see the big deal, if they really thought we would not mind, if they thought that the problem was us and not them, then they’d commit their adultery in the open.
I’ve often wondered if X and his something different, meant to be are living a shiny, happy, sparkly life with X being the perfect gentleman and with the perfect woman. Neither having faults, constantly smiling in approval at everything the other does.
It’s a matter of time until the mask slowly comes off and X’s true colors are revealed.
They’re fake, the effort they’re putting into proving how happy they are is sure to become tiresome.
Any relationship they have is shallow. They’re lacking in integrity and character and care for no one other than themselves.
Well, a guy can hope anyway! 🙂
This is a common concern she some BPD or NPD hooks up with another: will they be great together? Well,no.These folks suck.
But,try not to give a shit. You are better off with one out of your life.
Yes! It is the “yardstick of civilization!
Oak tree, my mother-in-law left her 30 year marriage to live with her high school sweetheart. 20 years later he threw her out. So, it may not happen straight away but it will, probably, happen (and by that time you won’t care).
That’s for sure, Cookie.
If she did it to you she will do it to him once the newness and sparkles wear off. Does it happen 100 percent of the time no just 99 percent. My ex left me for the love of his life the woman he was meant to be with! While still trolling on bondage dating sites and hooking up. And still trying to come to me for sex. Uh no. Love of his life no. He hasnt a clue how to love just addicted to the thrills, the newness, the chase, til he tires of it and fucks up yet again. There will always be a woman who thinks shes the one hes been waiting for. He gives the appearance of a great guy but he is not. There are good guys out there maybe one day one will find me but im not going looking.
“My ex left me for the love of his life the woman he was meant to be with!”
And we know how that turned out, she dumped him on his ass. These cheaters are so fickle, every next woman they meet is the love of their life. It’s like they’re teenagers without any brains.
Kellia, did he have the sadz when his whore dumped his lame ass?
My ex had huge sadz when Schmoopie dumped him (for another man, of course). He made many lame attempts to get me back, and to get his kids backed (who he’d also pretty much abandoned after I kicked him out). Then Schmoopie wanted him back, back he went, until she dumped him again (for the same other man, again, if my intel is right). Then it took him one week to get a new ‘serious girlfriend’ from Match.com.
But now I’m ‘bitter and self-righteous’, because I wouldn’t take him back and still won’t buy into HIS explanations as to why all this happened. Also I’m responsible for the kids not wanting much to do with him.
They live in cloud-cuckoo land, and will continue to do so. I hear it can be pretty nice there, except for the occasional run-ins with reality and consequences.
If “bitter” keeps you from re-engaging with a pathological liar/cheater, three cheers for bitter!
A luxurious 70% organic dark chocolate kind of bitter. M-m-mmm…
Well said kellia true that. Whore juice is still playing him either to punish him or get him back. So happy soon i will be gone from here.
Gee, Kar Marie…..I’m wondering if the stbx is doing the pick me dance as we sit here enjoying our single life? Whatyathink?
I think yes!!!
I totally get how you feel, Steve, and I have been working on it for a very long time. I thought about not sharing that because I don’t want to bring the room.down and people are sharing some really wonderful hope and support here today. Still, life is messy and this is one of my messes.
My particulars are different — I have a hard time trusting people in general — but the general idea is that life has shown me that honesty is rare. Intellectually, I, like you, realize I don’t want this fear to rule my life. Emotionally, I am always looking for lies.
When people get married, I think how it’s only a matter of time before we find out who’s the cheater and who’s the chump.
When a friend is dating and tells me something the other person said that sounds lame, like how they were three hours late because they fell asleep unexpectedly (yeah, I’m sure you were doing dishes and unexpectedly narcoleptically plopped into a heap on the floor, slept there for two hours, then couldn’t call because your phone fell uncontrollably asleep too, and all this made you have to shower at 4pm…) I assume the other person is telling some crap story to cover up the truth.
I mostly, by and large, figure people want it all and will lie to make