Dear Chump Lady, What are OW thinking?
Hi Chump Lady!
Your website has been extremely helpful on my journey to recovery from my STBXH cheating on me while I was pregnant and all after. I left him when our daughter was 4 months old, and it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do. Since leaving (things are so much clearer in hindsight), I realized that he is a narcopath. Narcopath and the Other Woman (both military) have no idea that I know he/they cheated on me for so long. They think I’m the stupid, psychotic ex-wife — and that’s fine, I’ll play the part well until my lawyer surprises him in court with my knowledge.
I’ve read a ton of your articles, and you’ve helped me not do the humiliating “pick me dance,” go no contact unless it pertains to my daughter, try not to worry about if he’s truly happy, not worry if I could have or should have done something better or differently, and not let their immature shenanigans get to me. Thanks to you, I realize that he’s a cake-eater and will most likely to do the same shenanigans to the OW (and probably worse).
My question is about the OW and her psyche—what in the heck was she thinking sleeping with a married man whose wife was pregnant?
Doesn’t she realize that he’s going to do the same thing to her? Does she truly think she gained Mr. Sparkles when really he’s a sparkly turd, and that she’s so “special” and different? I don’t get it. If someone bad-mouthed their wife, yet was still married to their spouse (and wouldn’t leave them), and hit on me, I’d run for the hills. Their affair was from December 2015 until July 2017 (when I left) and then they went public with their relationship after I left. I just don’t get it. Who accepts being someone’s side piece?
Any help would greatly be appreciated. Knowledge and understanding (from Google, FaceBook support groups, and your site) has helped immensely in my journey to recovery.
Love,
NewToChumpdom
Dear NTC,
You’ve read my articles, but apparently skipped over Untangling the Skein of Fuckupedness. What kind of rancid bunny fluff lives in the heads of OW? That’s not a place I encourage your mind to dwell. It’s not really a complicated answer, just unsatisfying. Who does this? A weak person. A selfish person. Perhaps someone as disordered as your ex.
You’ve escaped their toxic triangle, which is the most important thing. I’ll do my best to answer your questions, even though every time I run an OW letter, a trapdoor opens in cyberspace and all the trolls come out… (Tempest, stand at the ready with the cosh!)
My question is about the OW and her psyche—what in the heck was she thinking sleeping with a married man whose wife was pregnant?
She probably wasn’t thinking of you at all. You’re seeing the three of you as a whole picture. The two cheaters only see themselves. (Frankly, I’m not sure your cheater really sees the OW, or the OW sees him. They’re just idolizing some figment person they want to believe in. So sparkly!)
It could be he never mentioned he had a wife. Or he says that he does, but the baby belongs to someone else. (Poor sausage! The fake chump play for kibbles.) Or he says you’re a mean, mean woman who railroaded him into this pregnancy, and he’s just So Torn. And that goads her into the pick me dance with you and your unborn child (extra kibbles!) to stand by patiently and prove that Only She Alone Knows How To Sufficiently Appreciate Him.
See NTC, you don’t imagine any of these scenarios because you’re a decent person. If you were a nefarious person, the lying and manipulations would make more sense.
Doesn’t she realize that he’s going to do the same thing to her?
Yes and no.
No, because she’s super special.
(But yes, because she’ll keep him on a very short leash, in case the super special doesn’t hold.)
Does she truly think she gained Mr. Sparkles when really he’s a sparkly turd, and that she’s so “special” and different?
From your letter, it sounds like CN saved you from the pick me dance. (Thank God.) But had you engaged in that humiliating exercise, you’d know the maniacal drive to win. It’s a self-reinforcing cycle. I am competing. Surely the prize must be really worthy, or I would not be competing so hard!
Then you win the thing, (or think you have) and that’s a kibble hit of intermittent reward. (Next, then you lose the sparkly thing as he goes back to his wife, and Schmoopies 2 through 12). What’s to be done? TRY HARDER.
You exited the scene. She could conclude a.) This is a really stupid cycle and I need to get off this pathetic ride or b.) I WIN! I’m AWESOME! and YOU SUCK!
OW choose “b” every time.
I don’t get it. If someone bad-mouthed their wife, yet was still married to their spouse (and wouldn’t leave them), and hit on me, I’d run for the hills.
You’re not desperate. You have values. You know how to exercise boundaries. Not everyone does.
What you hear as “bad-mouthed their wife” to other ears is “poor man had a bad wife.”
Their affair was from December 2015 until July 2017 (when I left) and then they went public with their relationship after I left. I just don’t get it. Who accepts being someone’s side piece?
A weak person. A selfish person. Perhaps someone as disordered as your ex.
Just remember — she won a turd. There aren’t enough sparkles to cover the stench. If she wants to live in her Barbie Doll world with her pretty turd? Let her.
The rest of us can only marvel. Now, please return your attention to something more improving. Like sock folding or crossword puzzles, or cleaning lint traps. Thanks.
Dear NewtoChumpdom, I second Chump Lady that the OW probably wasn’t thinking about you at all. I’ve had two female friends who were OW. I was a zoo intern with one of them, sharing a small apartment with her at the zoo. One weekend the curator’s wife was out of town, and the other intern MOVED IN to the curator’s house and began a full blown affair. Reason she moved in? Because I was allergic to her cat, so she and the cat moved. The wife came home and was dumbfounded to find this woman living in her house. About a month into it, the intern talked to me about it and said, “It just occurred to me, I’m the other woman………” I had been in a complete emotional concussion just thinking about the pain she was causing the wife, and she just NOW realized she was the OW???
Second scenario was, my roommate was seeing a married coworker. My anxiety went through the roof, and I developed some health problems that are still with me today. One day, MONTHS into this affair, my roommate said to me, “It just occurred to me…I’m the other woman.” I’M NOT MAKING THIS UP. The APs are not thinking about anybody but themselves.
These women OW are broken, desperate and low self esteem!
I could not agree more.
A respectable married woman or a well-balanced, self-respecting single women would not agree to be a married man’s ‘bit on the side’.
These women are sad, deluded, and delusional – not to mention carrying a load of self-esteem issues ( and are prepared to play Russian Roulette with STDs )
Perfect match to the cheater. And they know exactly what they are doing Carol.
I think many OW feel that its the man with the wife who is breaking the promises and telling the lies and that if it wasn’t her it would be someone else. Obviously this wouldn’t apply if the OW was a friend or colleague. I must admit that I used to have some sympathy with this argument as many women focus on the OW rather than the husband who made vows, who is often portrayed as innocently powerless to the temptress. I’ve always found that ridiculous.
My friend once behaved this way, and having discovered her husband’s cheating marched over to OW to say, “Keep your hands off my man.” Whilst he was treated like a naughty schoolboy. I couldn’t understand this. He was the one who sneaked around on her and had her trust. I’m not condoning OW (and must point out NEVER been one) some clearly make a beeline for married men and seem to feel a sense of self worth from achieving the catch. Very sad and quite pathetic. That said my focus was on my husband’s betrayal, the man looked me in the eye and lied over and over whilst sharing a life with me. Maybe I can say that as my husband’s (STBX I should add and booted out immediately) cheating involved many trivial short term, more the merrier contacts he viewed as extra curricular fun in addition to football. There were about 8 at time of discovery. Maybe I would have seen things differently if there had been one special AP.
You feel the OM/OW cheated you by sharing intimacy that should have been yours. It feels like a theft although standing back you realize they are only in this position because your mate allowed it. Does not change the feeling of being stolen from.
Natalia, I definitely X had an AP. Prior to her I’m sure there were more than a few merry flings. I don’t have concrete evidence except for my intuition. I would try to ignore what my gut was telling me and not think about them but there was something deep inside of me that knew better.
A couple of times after X came home from business trips and I’d sense something was off, I asked X if he had been with anyone, he’d chuckle and say, “do you think I’m that kind of guy?” you know me, I’m not like that. He’d go one to say I had a vivid imagination, I should write novels, or even a soap opera.., the more he’d talk the stronger I felt there was something not quite right. I trusted him and ignored my gut feelings. I had a difficult time accepting that the person I married and trusted more than anyone else, my best friend, would be dishonest and betray me.
I do think there are women who enjoy the conquest of sleeping with a married man. They consider it an honor to have been selected sharing a secret tryst with the married man. Gives them a feeling that they’re more desirable than the wife.
Cheaters who have an AP are constantly sharing fabricated unflattering stories of his wife, she’s lazy, fat, a psycho, a prude, neglects there children, the home, the list of complaints is endless. To gain even more trust and sympathy from the AP the cheater will play the role of the victim in the marriage. Reversing roles, his wife is always unhappy, doesn’t appreciate him, she doesn’t like sex, she’s always busy with the kids, and he on the other hand describes himself sometimes with tears in his eyes, as the loving, attentive husband who wakes up every day thinking of ways to please this bitch of a wife only to be the victim of her wrath.
AP feels sorry for this poor wonderful man and hates his bitch wife for mistreating him.
You can be assured once Cheater leaves his wife and settles in with AP the cycle will continue. They’re never genuinely happy, they appear to be happy in the beginning stages of a relationship when everything is new and seemingly perfect. They believe they’ve found their true love. Teenagers, butterflies,they see themselves as the new age Romeo and Juliet. Love isn’t involved for the cheater, she’s a need.
They’re both on their best behavior using all their manners. As time goes on inevitably there will be a time she disagrees with him or heaven forbid says he’s wrong. He realizes she is’t perfect and not worshipping him like in the beginning and will hold resentments against her and the cycle will continue as it did when they were with us.
There’s no level they won’t stoop to win.
Sorry, but, in my situation, the OW was someone that knew me. She DID stand at the other end of the room during the ex’s retirement party, and, I actually commented on the fact that she never came over to say hello. There is no explanation for who she is or what she did. (No explanation for the ex either!) But like you said above “She now gets the weak minded sparkly turd who is perpetually dissatisfied with life.”
I think about this a lot @NotMyFault. Cheater, OW, OW’s husband and I all went to college together. Cheater and OWH were very close friends. They were at our wedding and we were at theirs. We babysat their kids for 5 years of date nights – they even asked us to be legal guardians. OW and I worked together. She cried when I told her over lunch that I was pregnant. They brought us dinner the day we came home with our newborn daughter (affair had begun at least three months prior). I confronted her twice, dry-eyed, and she cried as she acknowledged how “inappropriate” the “friendship” had become.
So, yes, I consider the affair to be overwhelmingly the Cheater’s fault. It was his responsibility to protect his daughter’s intact home life. He vowed his faithfulness to me until death do us part. He hid, then lied, the lied and hid some more. It’s his fault our marriage and home has crumbled.
But doesn’t she also share more than a little bit of the responsibility? The person who claimed to be my friend? The woman who stayed overnight in my guest room while the affair was going on? Who came to my Christmas party? The whore who held my innocent daughter when she was two days old? Then took my husband away from her emotionally and physically for the first year and more of her life? This bitch knew exactly what she was doing, and who she was doing it to.
Trusting123…
What a nightmare you’ve lived. I’m sorry to hear your story. How horrible to be betrayed doubly! I hope you & your girl are thriving without both of those scumbags.
Thank you, ChumpDiva! Having a child with a cheater certainly does complicate things, but she is the light of my life. She brings me such joy and I feel mighty as her mom!
I used to never blame OW’s until my husbands first affair that was emotional and I am pretty sure never went physical. That changed my thinking as in that case she was very definitely the aggressor. Instead of cheating he told me about her advances (yes, I now recognize that as triangulating). At first I wanted to trust that he would do the right thing. I also tried to get her to cool it by attempting to befriend her myself thinking that if she knew me she wouldn’t pursue him. Wrong. Eventually I had to tell ex to avoid all contact with her and he did once I put my foot down. I still blame her for playing a role in the destruction of my marriage even though that one didn’t go physical. She is the one who put the thought in his head that if I wasn’t good enough for him he had other options. On the other hand, I supposed I wouldn’t have wanted him to stick with me just because he thought nobody else would have him.
In any case, after that I decided that AP’s are at least somewhat to blame. For the physical affairs that ended our marriage I have mixed feelings about the OWs. I don’t have much respect for Schmoopie 1.0 but I do almost feel sorry for her. I do think ex took advantage of her loneliness for personal gain. She was weak to give in, but in the end she ended it because she didn’t feel right about it and she didn’t compete for him. Schmoopie 2.0 is a different matter. She was already looking for trouble when she hooked up with ex who was between Schmoopies and trying to figure out what he wanted. She convinced him that he wanted to continue down the path of having affairs and then she competed to “win” the prize while faking concern for the wife and kids (hers and his) who might get hurt. “oh I feel so guilty”, all just part of the act. She used such obviously manipulative tactics and ex ate it up. “My marriage is blowing up because of you and you want to go back to your wife? How could you have so little regard for my feelings? Sniff” I guess she did me a favor in the end, however. She now gets the weak minded sparkly turd who is perpetually dissatisfied with life.
I totally blame the OW/OM in affairs. I look at it this way. Say my cheater X held up a bank and stuck a gun in someone’s face and the OW/OM drove the getaway car. Both are guilty of armed robbery.
Sorry Chumptopia,
My response had the same analogy as yours. I responded before I read all of the posts.
Yep. Totally concur.
No, Natalie.B., you saw it right to leave the cheater. 1 or a 101, its still cheating and wrong and you felt exactly the right way.
Thank you Janna. Yes definitely agree though I meant actually I may have judged the OW differently if it had been just one special AP.
1 v 1,000,000. The long term AP in my case was just devastating. A friend and years of lies that completely destroyed and changed my memories.
They’re all Sucky McSuckertons. And assholes.
I thought there had only been one LT MOW. There were in fact at least two happening at the same time and without the other APs knowledge.
It is hysterical now after nearly 5yrs post DDay on the discovery of one of the LT MOWs. This particular MOW, in my early skein phase, was trading up by my estimation. How deeply devasted she was when he had to publicly break up with her to ‘do the right thing’.
In all the time they were a true love match, sharing the same stars and dreams despite their geographical distance, she was hooking up with other guys and asshat had other APs unbeknownst to each other. I did get satisfaction early on revealing to asshat that his penis wasn’t the only one filling her vacuous holes. The look of shock of not being the only one was priceless. And certainly fueled me to get tested, get my shit together and get him OUT.
I do know cheaters feel entitled to situational ethics and tend to hide behind morons like Ester P and also their religious tenets to normalize their abusive behavior. It is shocking when stuff like this is revealed because I know I assumed asshat had the same morals and values as me and my kids. These creeps do not change. A snake sheds its skin many times during its life and still remains a snake.
Golfgrrl, you are so right about the friend and years of lies destroying and changing memories. That was my experience, as well.
Dear Finally Free and Chumps,
I realised all three of my best friends were the OW, and this was incredibly hard for me to process. In one of them my bestie shagged a guy while his wife (whom she knows) was going through a difficult pregnancy. In her words, she didn’t care about the wife as she ‘felt vulnerable’.
I dealt with it by pretending it didn’t occur but sometimes I feel like shaking them and asking what the fuck were they thinking. In all three situations, they were completely vulnerable (family shitstorm) and looked to a guy for emotional comfort. But it still baffles me… In my darkest moments I didn’t think it was OK to cheat so I don’t understand.
I had a shiver down my spine when one of them said “I don’t care about the girl, I just want to be happy” – I realised this is exactly what OW must have said if ever she felt an iota of guilt about shagging my ex-boyfriend. Having said this, I always say 99% of the blame is on our partners and 1% on the AP. After all, if our partners didn’t give them the green-light that this is OK, they wouldn’t go ahead with doing what they did. When I saw the disparaging way OW was talking about me to my ex-boyfriend, I wondered whether I was the OW instead of her – I felt so rejected, so outside of their orbit, so alien. I saw how secure she felt in bad-mouthing me because my boyfriend gave her the permission to do so.
But also I feel because they both have a broken moral compass, they perhaps do fit together, after all. If that’s what their values are, then no surprise they end up together. Like NTC, I definitely wouldn’t come near a guy who cheated on their partner.
Also, the zoo situation is madness. Just when I think nothing will surprise me on CN…
I have to disagree that the AP is only responsible for 1% of the affair! No hall pass here! They know they are messing with a married man and proceed anyway.
They may not have stolen the money, but they are driving the get away car!!
I hold BOTH my adulterous Ex and his mistress responsible for the destruction they have caused!
I would agree with that !
I hope you have new best friends by now… don’t forget that we’re chumps. Cheaters find us easy prey.
These are not good people who’ve did a bad thing; this is WHO THEY ARE. It didn’t change. Your best friends are bad people (charismatic and charming and sparkly and GUSH about you to your face or love you for what you provide to them) who have a character trait of easily lying/betraying/feeling entitled to whatever feeds their egos in any passing moment.
I’ve had to gray-rock a LOT of these people who used to be in my life. Things are much easier now. My boundaries are high and my expectations of everyone are simple: reciprocity.
This Chump went way too far down the rabbit hole of “figuring it out” as cheating occurred before CL & CN were not available and I so wanted “truth”. Sad I wasted all that time thinking I would get it. Wish I would have known what a Chump I was decades ago, I would have a lot more money too! Trusting people has been my biggest flaw…or should I say trusting the WRONG people
Phoenixrising, EXACTLY.
I met my ex when he was a trainee programmer living with his parents. He makes mid-six figures now. Does his sweetums (10 years younger, his affair partner, and married all of 8 months herself at the time they left their spouses) really think it might not happen again? Does he think that she’d have been interested if he was still making $40K a year? They can’t possibly be that dumb, can they?
Oops before CL & CN were available.
Regina, unfortunately I didn’t find CN until after the divorce. If I had I wouldn’t have wasted so much time trying to figure out why X left, blaming myself.
I hate that I wasted so much of my life married to X. I sacrificed my career while helping him succeed in his. I moved across the country away from family for his career. He would call it our career at that time and would remind me that the sacrifices I made were for “our” career.
That went on for 20 years.. now that he’s successful he’s sharing the benefits of our success with his new wife. She’s enjoying the lifestyle I looked forward to after all the lean years while I devoted myself to X helping him succeed in his career. They’re living a comfortable life, going on luxury vacations, new cars, new home with new furniture, no financial concerns. Meanwhile I struggle to survive.
But remember – deep down he will never again be able to be completely 100% sure that she (or her successors) are not only with him for the money. Deep down he will know that. You were the last opportunity for him to ever feel and be sure he was loved for himself, and he will know it. Every day she runs the risk her wealthy successful partner will trade her in for someone younger or _______ (fill in the gap with your word of choice from the list of Stupid Shit Cheaters say). And deep down she’ll know it and feel it every time she sees him talking to someone else. Same thing happened to me, it’s hard to watch someone else living the life you spent so long sacrificing for and working towards. I find it helps to remember what’s under the facade – because that is their life. Uncertainty and unrelaxed that at some point they’re going to be dumped for someone new. Every time they go on holiday, or buy something new. Every single time. Hope your life feels better. Big hugs.
Brit,
The huge downside to what looks so good to you from where you stand is that they ARE CHEATERS. They cannot leave themselves. They will NOT be happy because they don’t have the capacity to BE happy, or he never would have cheated. She got the sparkly turd…she will always have to look over her shoulder and wonder…so will he. What we consider true happiness: honesty, commitment, trust, loyalty…that’s not in their game plan.
You have your values & your sanity, brit. I think of regretting the 31 years of my youth, my “prime” (by whose standards?), but instead I’m so GRATEFUL that I don’t have to invest another nickel of my time on earth partnering with a fuckwit! I made a poor choice. Don’t have to make THAT one again. So, bring on new mistakes & good choices, too. I’m just starting to imagine dating and just doing me. No amount of money or regret is going to help me feel good about myself. But, what CL offers? A new, cheaterfree life? THAT! I want that, whatever it entails.
Brit, you deserve better, truly. Someone may appreciate your devotion and sacrifices some day. Cheater didn’t. Just let him go. Trust that he sucks. She sucks.
You don’t. Hang in there, brit. It gets better.
So grateful to British family law that does not allow this abandonment.
If you ask the OW/OM, the sparkleturd is still the same sparkly, considerate, generous, warm puppy person who attracted you to him/her/itself in the first place. That’s why OW/OM is now so attracted to him/her/it. And we all know that warm puppy love (from a real puppy) is the most sincere love of all.
The big difference is that those sparkly, considerate, generous, warm puppy feelings just don’t apply to you any more.
You didn’t see it at first, when he/she/it was acting the warm puppy for you, but thouse feelings had all the sincerity and depth of an ice patch on a hot Arizona summer day.
Chumpeter and Finally Free,
Yours are excellent front row insights. I recall my cheater, years after one of the instances of cheating, answering my questions and challenges about it, weaving ultimately a lie to deny it, but telling a story around the lie to make it plausible. In that story, like all those she wove, she incorporated small truths to serve as the requisite tangential details that all “true” stories have. One such detail was how she and he had spent part of their time together discussing Christmas presents they were planning for their significant others (me and his wife/girlfriend). See? They were talking about their thoughtfulness towards their chumps, so of course nothing could have happened (I later proved it had). But at the time, I hit her with the fact that by her own telling, she had completely fucked over an entirely innocent other person – his wife/girlfriend. A woman she had never even met. She had made her suffer being cheated upon. This completely stunned my wife/cheater. I remember her inability to even respond, which for a compulsive liar is rare. She wasn’t offended, but rather taken aback by the fact that this fact had simply never even occurred to her. Not that she had standards which normally would have made her consider this aspect, she didn’t. But she did believe that she saw reality accurately. They all think this. She had to sit for a moment and marvel at it (whereas a non-cheater would have immediately called bullshit on the assertion). I’m sure she had long since settled the fantastic cheating event in her infantile ego as one where she had been justifiably lusted for her hotness, had received her entitled “appreciation”, had enjoyed discussing me, making me almost present for my punishment, as she moved through her typical skank M.O. with this home-for-the-holidays years long fuck buddy, and I had been righteously punished for whatever horrendous slight I had dared to inflict upon her. And yet now, here was this amazingly huge wrinkle that she had never once previously considered. Just like your stories.
It is truly stunning how the disordered mind exhibits itself so uniformly across “different” disordered people. I know there is danger in getting oneself lost in endlessly pursuing an answer for “why?” rather than focusing on self and future. But they actually are surprisingly simple and pathetic creatures once you understand their makeup. So simple in fact that you almost think there has to be more to them than just “this”. There isn’t. (Not that you’re asking “why?”, I’m just going on here thinking out loud.) The difficulty in understanding them is exactly what CL refers to above – it’s that we constantly try to understand them through the lense of our own core beliefs, our own decency, logic and emotional reward systems. They simply don’t share these with us. This in a nutshell IS what disorder is. A common set of results found in developmentally-emotionally stunted individuals that put in place (or leave in place…i.e. infantile) entirely different answers for each of these attributes. Society then makes them hide or buffer this underlying state through thousands of tiny lessons as they “grow up”. But they all are essentially the same. And the mystery and our bafflement are not there because of some deep complexity in them, but rather because we initially try to apply ourselves to their doings in seeking answers.
“…it’s that we constantly try to understand them through the lens of our own core beliefs, our own decency, logic and emotional reward systems. They simply don’t share these with us. ”
^^^I wish I had come to this realization earlier in my own journey thru D-day, wreckonciliation, and ultimately divorce. I struggled for a long time trying to understand the “why” and the “how could he.” I finally get it.
TKO,
“It is truly stunning how the disordered mind exhibits itself so uniformly across “different” disordered people. I know there is danger in getting oneself lost in endlessly pursuing an answer for “why?” rather than focusing on self and future. But they actually are surprisingly simple and pathetic creatures once you understand their makeup. So simple in fact that you almost think there has to be more to them than just “this”. There isn’t. (Not that you’re asking “why?”, I’m just going on here thinking out loud.) The difficulty in understanding them is exactly what CL refers to above – it’s that we constantly try to understand them through the lense of our own core beliefs, our own decency, logic and emotional reward systems. They simply don’t share these with us. This in a nutshell IS what disorder is.”
This ^^^ 100%. I continue to struggle to understand how my Ex and the OW could have behaved in such an awful, sneaky, dishonest, selfish way and how my Ex continues to try to justify his conduct. And I have as yet been unable to understand this because, as you say, I am trying to understand through my lens of decency, integrity, etc. I need to accept that I will never understand the why and the how. My Ex and the OW are disordered. End of story. They deserve each other.
So done,
“And I have as yet been unable to understand this because, as you say, I am trying to understand through my lens of decency, integrity, etc. I need to accept that I will never understand the why and the how.”
^^^ This is the nub of the matter. As CL says they are just “wired differently”, and we don’t have the key to that wiring. (And would we want it if we could have it?!)
“My Ex and the OW are disordered. End of story. They deserve each other.”
As do mine and many other peoples’.
My exH married his OW and OW put on her FB page (yeah, I know I shouldn’t look but I did..) “x day, y month, z year, married abc – the best thing I ever did” – I thought what the f***? You helped a married man break up his marriage so you could be with him?: And that was the best thing you ever did?
Some people really need to aim higher..
Kate – A year or so ago I saw a picture of my stbx’s gf and her mother hugging and laughing in the backyard of the house my ex and gf moved into. I thought, how weird – mom hugging her daughter like, “I’m so happy for you living with a married man and you’re having a baby! Yay!”
Who does that? What a good thing you are doing! Really?!
But our daughter told me how her dad was yelling at OW.
I know how mean and nasty he can be. The OW gets the whole package. They don’t change for them no matter how much love bombing they do at first. Kinda sad.
They are disordered.
Masterfully put, TKO.
I was a “why” seeker for a while, partially because of my perspective (I’m a therapist) and also to puzzle out how I could have missed so much about the person I adored for 30+ years.
Thanks to CL, good therapy & an awesome lawyer, I’m better now.
“Why” doesn’t stop the floods, wildfires, earthquakes. Getting out minimizes further injury and offers a chance to start over.
Thank God.
Thank you, CL & CN!
???????? to:
“Getting out minimizes further injury and offers a chance to start over. Thank God.”
Wow! I admire your introspection, you have such a fluidity with words. I am honored to have shared your comment. thank you
Hey NewToChumpdom —
Nice: “They think I’m the stupid, psychotic ex-wife — and that’s fine, I’ll play the part well until my lawyer surprises him in court with my knowledge.” Well done!!!
That will be so satisfying . . . (mmmmm — I’m enjoying it vicariously . . . )
OW get brittle, emotionally. They end up having a hyena laugh, halitosis, inane conversation. Pity the fool.
QueenMother,
Thank you! I can’t wait until my court date! I’m so impatient!!!
HopeFloats,
My attorney said not to go to their commanders because he will most likely get a demotion. Demotion=less pay=less child support. I’d be hurting myself, and ultimately, my daughter.
If they are military I would take my info to their commanders. Just saying.
Not to quibble with Hopefloats,
but as a former JAG, the problem with taking it to the military is 2 fold. On one hand, if it ends up actually harming your husband’s (or wife’s) career, you will get less money in the settlement because IF ANYTHING AT ALL happens to them, they’ll be less likely to be promoted and that means less money. Do not do anything to prevent him from being able to retire. You want your share of the pension and if you go overboard (or if he/she has and broken other military laws that would prevent him/her from getting that retirement) then the retirement could be lost and THAT would suck for all.
Those of us married for long periods and in our 50’s NEED the health care and the pensions, so bear that in mind.
ON THE OTHER HAND if both parties (cheater AND schmoopie or cheater #2) are military and probably not going to make retirement anyhow, then figure out if the numbers are worth it.
IF ANYTHING happens to them at all (it’s now rare for an enlisted person to be punished – formally – for adultery alone. But if its with a subordinate — or if an officer is with an enlisted, that’s a different matter).
Just be sure not to break the dinner plate. If you can make it without their income or benefits, go at it but do it in a way that shows your concern for the “break down” of your spouse b/c this is “So unlike them” you are worried they are “not as stable or the way they used to be…”
And that’s only but for them to get the hairy eye ball look from their commanders like “are you strong/sane enough to serve???”
ALWAYS be the calm, concerned spouse, never play into the batchit crazy one, which to be honest, does exist. We were trained to deal with them too.
I had an ex wife storm into my office demanding I “find” her husband during the Persian Gulf War, and he had deployed from a base in another state. And he was $40 short on his support payment. She yelled at me (not a motivator for me, btw)
and I realized she was losing her shit probably for good historical reasons. But during a war, priorities shift.
The kids and spouses are to be taken care of preferable BEFORE the deployment –
Spouses ALWAYS ATTEND THE
PRE DEPLOYMENT BRIEFINGS
that’s where you get the information YOU need (and a Durable power of attorney, too).
Okay now I’m off on a tangent…sorry!
PS
MILITARY FOLKS – please you and your spouse should have a will made. ESPECIALLY if there are kids! (If you think your spouse will kill you, that changes this advice in ways far beyond what I can say here). Just make sure they know THEY are not the beneficiaries. Life insurance does NOT go through the will on its own, so you must say, SEPARATELY and ON the life insurance policy itself, what you want.
Way too often the life insurance goes to the person you chose upon entering the military like your brother you no longer speak to or who’d keep it all despite the fact you now have 2 kids, or worse, the life insurance (possibly your only real “asset”) goes to the FORMER spouse b/c you forgot to change it – or b/c you thought the new will fixed it. It does not fix it.
Wills are free at the Legal Assistance office on base.
Talk to a JAG Officer (military lawyer, and yes we really do all have law degrees) and address this shit before you deploy.
It’s much less distracting when having missiles shot overhead, to not worry about who your spouse is cheating with OR if the kids are eating b/c you forgot to allow access to ANY funds to a spouse who might not be cheating at all.
* (Don’t confuse your former cheater ex, with your new, decent spouse b/c you’re freaking out).
If you are the spouse, stay 20 years if you can (the years of marriage that overlap with years in the military are the years that count) 20 or more is best but that’s only if you are close enough to that 20+year retirement mark, to not go insane.
Geez, I need to write my own blog on this. But today I feel BITTER, so that’s a bad idea.
Mine had a very public affair at foreign war college. I was back in the US working. He was mad at me and thought everyone would be impressed that the only woman in the course – who was there on a cover story – had “picked him.” Actually ran around with her in front of me. Other officers’ wives made comments to me. I told him he was doing himself in, but he wouldn’t listen. Said I was “just jealous,” as if we were in high school. That war college was prestigious and designed for future generals. After that, the military put him “out to pasture.” Sometimes they do themselves in.
OW are also insecure. Something cheater will discover at the most inopportune time for him. Poor bunny. This is what thinking with your (general your) dick does.
Exactly!
Dear NTC, I think you deserve a kudos for staying so strong – so many of us faltered, including myself, and went on the pick-me dance and tortured ourselves thinking ‘was I good enough’, ‘what did OW have that I didn’t’, ‘I caused him to cheat’ etc. My comment isn’t directed at answering your question but merely at pointing out that your daughter is lucky to have a strong mother like you. She will learn the values of dignity, self-respect and integrity from an early age.
I guess the OW never did have that kind of moral or spiritual grooming, or if they did, they chose to ignore it. I always believed in sisterhood and couldn’t understand how a woman could cause so much pain to another woman, compounding her actions with talking shit about me to my ex-boyfriend. At the end of the day, it was his responsibility to prevent her from bad-mouthing me. Heck, it was his responsibility to protect the integrity of the relationship. I suppose once our partners give OW the validation that we the faithful ones are not important, they feel on top of the world.
I’m glad that you are staying strong. I wish I had your fortitude. There are days when I lapse into the self-deprecation of ‘they are going to be happy together while I die surrounded by 10 cats’. But then I’d rather be alone than build a relationship from the broken heart of a chump.
You are mighty. You’re an example to us all! Please keep on shining xx
Yes, building happiness on top of other people’s pain. That is something I don’t ever want to do.
You assume happiness on their part. Always remember, if they cheat on you there’s always a next.
What’s the investment factor? They are willing to believe they are special. It’s a cheater they’ve won.
The OW has to forever play detective, wondering where they are and when the devaluation begins. It’s inevitable the insecurity will cause them angst. Deep down they are both aware of what they were willing to do to innocents. It’ll bite them regardless of the true love.
This is a legit question for which I have been struggling with. Is there always a next or do we try to tell ourselves that to make ourselves feel better?
Married 18 years. My Ex left me for a woman he went to High School with and reconnected after many years. They are both from the same small town and have mutual friends and each have family around for support. He has done well for himself. Of course, he said he was going to divorce me anyway and their relationship started after he asked me for a divorce. This is not the truth. I won’t go into all of the details. But, I was blind-sided. I had no idea he was so unhappy. COWARD!
They have been together now over 2 years. She moved in 3 months post divorce (A little over a year) They have built a house and a life together. I expect they will get engaged (if they aren’t already) and/or married this year. I really do think they will be together forever!
I can’t help but think if only I did this or that, was this or that etc…..
Warrior,
No, no, no, stop blaming yourself for his choices of behaviour.
It doesn’t matter if you were the crappiest wife in the world, if you burnt his dinner every night ( that was on the nights that you weren’t drunk) and you spent all the housekeeping money in daytime bars, or never washed for a month at a time, never paid the bills and stayed in bed half the day while the house turned into a stinking hovel – IT does NOT GIVE HIM LICENSE TO CHEAT !! (Capitals for emphasis, not shouting)
It might be grounds for a divorce – but there is no excuse for cheating.
Stop beating yourself up about this. If he was so unhappy, why didn’t he speak up? – answers on a postcard, please…
I’m glad you have support, now you can move on to better things.
“Deep down they are both aware of what they were willing to do to innocents”.
Doingme, I think the difference with them is that they are OK with that knowledge. All humans have a choice; to be a better person or to do what’s easy. They knew full well what pain they caused and it didn’t bother them.
(In my situation, during the worst moments of my LDR with my ex-boyfriend, I still thought we had a relationship – toxic, for sure, but it deserved an honest ending. But no, he merely announced ‘I have a girlfriend’ when I thought I was the girlfriend. I went NC but about a year later, bumped into him again, fell for him, assumed that the GF/OW was fictional, and devoted 3-4 more years of my life supporting him, cherishing him, loving him, making LDR work, meeting his parents and friends, making him happy, despite the grief of losing a parent. Once he found a high-paying job, shed his weight, found his self-esteem, OW came back. I only found out eight months later. She was more than happy to come back to him – assuming she had ever left. In her mind, probably I was the OW, not her. I found messages where they spoke disparagingly about me and wondered ‘I respected and loved my boyfriend. How did he let her speak this way about me?’ I feel hurt that I was the one outside the force-field of their love. I don’t think they will ever see what was wrong – because they saw themselves as a team and me as the outsider. My ex-boyfriend configured it that way. So they will carry on with their lives, happily.)
In short, I am reading everything I can about meh, because my initial stages post D-Day were;
– Surely they won’t be happy together;
– Surely their conscience is bugging them;
– Surely it’s not true love;
– Surely karma is brewing a shit storm for them;
– Surely I will be vindicated, somehow.
But at the end of the day, they are still happy and dandy while I work through the nightmares and sporadic breakdowns and regular crying breaks in the office toilet. Karma, or imagining them to have a conscience, is a fantasy. These people don’t care about causing others unhappiness, or if they do, they can compartmentalise and move on quickly: that is their shield and strength.
They knew full well what pain they caused and it didn’t bother them.
I think it’s totally irrelevant to them. Their investment isn’t deep, so yours couldn’t possibly be either. Sorta like oopsie, stepped in dog dirt. Oh well, inconvenient but still no big deal.
I was late to Facebook but when I finally joined, my first love friended me.
We caught up like two mature adults. He had a beautiful family and although I was kind of sad it wasn’t me, we broke up for good reasons almost 30 years ago and it was the best decision.
A little sad but the right thing.
A few years later, I see he’s getting a divorce. I’m shocked. Totally shocked. He had been married for over 20 years and really seemed to love his wife very much.
He fished, but not to hard and that was ok, I just ignored him. He always has to be the nice guy but I had him figured out.
Long story short, he’s having an affair with a married woman. I don’t know if the affair overlaps the divorce or not but to me, all his sparkle and charm that I had hung unto as good memories had vanished.
I see him for what he is and what I once thought was a bit of a loss has turned into a win.
Granted, I married a cheater so my life wasn’t a better one but I see this person so clearly now it me feel like a winner.
Two very physically attractive people with lots of money but a relationship of sneaking around, not being able to share in an honest life. ?? I don’t understand.
You don’t miss out when you’re not with a cheater.
Some people have it all but stoop to cheating and you can’t polish a turd and think it’s still not a turd.
No contact and living a better life is so much better if you can do it.
Looking back, I would have been better off in the long run if I had left when my kids were small.
This letter poster seems pretty mightjy already and I have to think are going to be much better off without her cheating husband. As for OW…pffft…EVERYONE hates an OW. Once you cross that line, you’re can’t come back. Both men and women know she’s toxic.
Hi zoha,
If you don’t mind, why do you say you would have been off if you left when your kids were young?
My wife had two affairs this year, but we are still “together.” I’m giving it one more chance, but I’m very close to calling my marriage dead. But we have 5 and 8 year olds. I look at them and hesitate to leave. I’ve read that studies have shown it’s actually better for the kids to be from a broken home than to live in one. But that’s really hard to see when you are living in the middle of it and you don’t want to break up the family. So why do you say you wish you left when your kids were young?
Thanks.
I didn’t find out until my children were grown, but can say this – breaking up my family was the hardest thing I ever did. But now, 3 years later my children are for the first time getting to spend time with the real me. Even I had forgotten what the real me was like, and had absolutely no understanding of how living with a person who behaves like that had changed me. I’m far more relaxed on every level, enjoy daily life more etc. You have no idea how it changes you little by little.. I sometimes wonder whether my kids wish I’d done it sooner, they’ve said they see a huge difference in me for tbe better. I don’t think there is ever a time to feel right about breaking up a family, but I do wonder if my kids would have benefitted if it had happened sooner.
I left FOR my kids. I had to show them that one doesn’t betray the people one claims to love the most without a consequence. I don’t want them to think that it’s okay to lie & deceive someone. That ISN’T love. I think it’s so important to be clear about what is and isn’t acceptable. Otherwise, what they see (& it is SO much more than you think) is what’s okay. They will repeat your dynamics all their lives, one way or another.
Truth matters.
You deserve better, TheFooledTwiceDad.
I completely agree. I know I wasn’t the perfect husband (none of us are), but cheating on me instead of addressing our/her issues is unacceptable. My wife isn’t being fully transparent yet, but she is making some positive changes (therapy, home more, etc), but as of right now, I can’t get past the lying, betrayal, and deceit that went along with the affairs. I just don’t understand how she could lie to me for months and months and then say she loved me. I understand none of them are thinking about us; they are being selfish, but at some level, they have to know people are going to be hurt.
And thank you ChumpDiva; I know I deserve better, but that “better” involves splitting time with my kids and affecting their lives. Right now, that’s the hurtle I am stuck on.
What if your children is already an adult? Would you divorce after the kids old enough to understand about their parents not happy lving together/
I know how you feel. I stayed too. My daughter is now 8 and my little surprise son is now 20 months.
If my husband hadn’t put everything into treatment and counseling I would be gone already. I would say things are okay now. He and our daughter are so close and she knew nothing of his infidelity. I finally feel respected but I know that came at a huge cost. Including me putting my foot down due a final time saying “I’m not living like this anymore. Fix it or fuck off.” He tried telling me that I’m unstable. I laughed in his face and said, every time you’ve have a meltdown or whatever I’ve stayed and picked up the pieces. Grieved, did the responsible things and stayed on course. I’m the most stable relationship you’ve ever had with any woman your entire life!” That hit him pretty hard. He actually stopped right there and said “my God you’re right.” I said I wanted that in writing. Then I had him read The Verbally Abusive Relationship. Most cheater arse spouses wouldn’t do that and mine wouldn’t have years earlier. But he FINALLY realized he was the fucked up one and his whole family was just… fucked….. (I think the series of foster homes he was in and out of his whole childhood should have tipped him off. I didn’t know until after we married.) If he kept up his crap or backslid I was at the point where I would have been like “whatever. Fuck off.” It’s weird that I can still love and him and still feel like he can just fuck off 10 seconds after if he ever tried any of his bullshit ever again in this lifetime. Not ideal. If your wife wants to abuse you and the kids she can just fuck off too.
Not Zoha but in my case, I truly believe if children have one, sane, happy parent, it’s goibg to be fine. Just like our cheaters, WE deserve to be happy. And modeling that for kids in an ethical meaningful way is better than living in a broken family, if you can help it.
Just my 2 cents.
My daughter, who is 5, hugged my wife and I last week and said, “I love my family.” I almost cried right there. I wouldn’t trade my kids for anything in the world, but this would be so much easier if we didn’t have them. I struggle with how divorce would change their lives. I’m definitely the sane parent, and I feel like if I’m home, I can try to protect them from my wife and her addictions. If we divorce, I have less control over what they see, hear, etc. I guess I can’t worry about that.
Sneaking around heightens the thrill for these losers. It’s all so Harlequin romance novel-esque, until the jig is up and their behavior becomes part of a legal deposition.
I took great joy in watching my husband’s face as he had to talk about having sex with someone not his wife in a conference room. The glimpse of embarrassment and shame was very gratifying to me, as was both his and my attorney’s looks of disgust.
Right on …. ” that great joy in watching the cheater xh’s face as he had to talk about having sex with numerous women (not his faithful wife) in a conference room” The level of embarrassment and shame was gratifying to me but it was’t enough for him to stop! His Narc brain probably quickly switch to somehow making it all my fault and he deserved whatever he wanted.. Sneaking around and fooling everyone finally caught up to him enough that he got served divorce papers when he least expected it. It was like watching a cockroach scramble for a place to hide. Absolutely sure once his jig was up it wasn’t that fun anymore. He moved out of town very quickly, the locks were changed just as quick and I was now in charge of my destiny. 3 years later he still tells ppl that we divorced after 32 years bc #1 I could’t get over a MISTAKE he made #2 I locked him out. Sad sausage ….. 😉
He didn’t ruin my life, he ruined his own. He is a 61 year old aging player who doesn’t have the appeal he probably thinks he does. And I know for fact that little pecker hasn’t worked for years. Can only LOL at the extent he must go through to get it up. As far as all those OW he made the choice to have and blow up his family and probably theirs too, I look at them both the same, Pitful, losers! Give them over to themselves and it never is quite as thrilling as the lying, sneaking was!
Fireball,
I wonder what the percentage is of tiny dick cheaters who can’t get it up? And, of course, chicken-egg: did one affect the other?
Mine has cheated all his adult life, as far as I know (40+ years). Overcompensating, much? But then ED hit as he got older…OR was it that he couldn’t get it up with faithful spouse? Porn & schmoopies are short-cuts to immature excitement, I’m sure.
I never complained, btw, and am NOT criticizing anyone’s size. Hell, I loved the man and married him. NOT an issue. For me. I used to wonder if he needed constant attention because of his own image of his body. But I am happily skein-free and don’t really care.
It’s not what you got, it’s how you use it.
It also seems like Karma for ED to plague him. That’s enough for me.
Dear ChumpDiva and Fireball, same here with ex (=mr nobody to me) dickless worm.
He can count on the magic blue pills though and…on his pussy-grabber philosophy of course. It seems that women like that philosophy.
He thinks he’s so irresistible, but I know ladies need a magnifying glass to find it.
I never complained but when I found evidence of serial cheating, it was so unbelievable for a bald 50 yo with false teeth and micro dick to have so many women and simultaneous affairs.
The thrill he got of it was so blinding for his adolescent/narcissistic brain that he could even laugh when I called his tiny dick “ridiculous *pimple*”. I called it “the pimple” only after discovering how many OW he was involved with and in the meanwhile packing his stuff in garbage bags out of my house.
That was his gigantic compensation: the long list of shop assistants, waitresses, neighbors, his friends’ wives, our children’s friends’ mothers, some of my colleagues, relatives and numerous prostitutes. At least I visualize one chumped husband beating his convincement of irresistible grandiosity out of his sick delusional head.
Stay strong friends.
Chutes&Ladders – ‘The glimpse of embarrassment and shame was very gratifying to me, as was both his and my attorney’s looks of disgust.”
Oh man, do I ever remember that moment in the conference room.
It was almost sweet justice looking back on it.
3 attorneys and a mediator (we were at the very end and stuck).
I was allowed my ‘story’ – which was basically the victim of a horrible attack that injured me greatly. And, then it would be his turn to tell the story. Well, I am horrible to talk in a group but hell, did I want my story out there and confront him on many details. I charged forth and he looks scared as shit. And, he rarely looks scared as shit. I guess I had that effect on him.
Completely unprepared and feeling pretty damn angry, I spoke first and, mediator wanted to know if I was finished after the first 10 minutes. And, I thought, NOPE, I want to go the entire 20 minutes of my statement. It was brutal from my angle and I have to say, he took it like a man. Not being aloud to swear, I was amazed at the colorful language I dug up from my gut that passed the course. And, was very explanatory. He looked shocked.
When it was his turn to talk….all he said was….(you guessed it!) . I’m sorry for what you’ve been through.
At that moment, I stopped, laughed and said that was NO apology and my attorney and I walked out the door. (meaning I was done the negotiation) . And, suddenly we saw him running down the sidewalk by himself until his attorney caught up with him.
One hour later, he requests another conference with the 3 attorneys and we again, sit straight across from each other, staring hard into each others’ eyes.
This time, he had the right words on what a real apology looks like – he had a very good attorney who probably counselled him…or we would be in front of the judge.
He impressed me with his answer and I wish I could have recorded it. And, it made me feel better….so I settled 5 minutes later.
That proper apology means A LOT!
AND, saved him a lot of money.
The funny thing is, I didn’t give a shit about the money, it was the fairness and apology that I wanted.
I know that in my experiences the OW justifies her affair because “the wife/husband is crazy”. That seems to be the running theme when I have talked to people who were fooling around with a married man. They say this as if it makes it ok. It is the get out of jail free card. My response is always “Well I would be crazy too if my spouse was cheating on me.” When it did actually happen to me, YES I was crazy. 🙂
Yes, I’m apparently crazy (as well as vindictive and unappreciative). I unfortunately fed the OW some crazy fuel when I was still in Pick-Me land not understanding what was going on. To my eternal shame, one insomiac, 3-days-without-food-or-sleep night I actually reached out to OW in an email (she was a family friend) , explaining my panic that the STBX was planning to drop our marriage without even trying, asking for any input she could provide. She had the gall to write me back and tell me “she had to stay out of this” and “hugs”, etc. etc. plus some very condescending stuff as well. Then she sent that message right to the STBX. So at that point I was “crazy”, “vindictive”, “unappreciative”, AND “violating my ex’s privacy”.
God knows what she says about me now that I’m NC and holding him to the parenting plan despite his constant attempts to sabotage it. Not The paint in that house must curl to hear it. I get little glimpses of it through strange language in texts and emails from the STBX, that’s so off the mark it’s laughable.
I agree Chumptastic,
Before X moved out of our home, behind my back X confided in everyone we knew that he was seriously concerned for my mental health, sometimes with tears.
X was so concerned about my mental health he decided to cheat and abandon me, cleaned out our bank accounts, closed my credit cards, and shut down my phone leaving me with nothing.
It’s an unusual way to show concern for someone who’s suffering a mental illness.
Was that just his way of helping me get well?
What happened to that line in our marital vows, in sickness and in health till death do us part?
They’re all so full of shit. They say anything to justify themselves. We would be racked with guilt at the thought of doing the devious things they do. Doesn’t bother them, they don’t think twice. You can do that if you don’t have a conscious. They’re morally deficient.
Brit, Fireball, Kathleen – hands down the worst stories about divorce and separation I’ve ever heard. Leaving you with literally nothing and no security or stability.
How are you doing now? Did you recover money during the divorce??
Brave women each of you!
Born Free
I realize there are terrible stories here on CN. We just to save our sanity & our health by getting rid of the evil, toxic spouses that do this to us.
In my case, I bought him half out of our home but when he retires I will receive 50% of his pension. He hasn’t retired yet for spite. I am financially strapped now but I get rent from my tenant & my social security goes towards my utilities. It’s very hard.
With the money he received from the house, he traveled the world with the deceased whore. He will probably continue to travel with the new girlfriend while I sometimes run out of food.
I’m also a cancer survivor but I’m just glad he’s gone. I hope this NewYear is better for me.
Thank you for your concern.
HUGS to you. ❤️
OMG Brit, that was me! I was accused of being crazy a lot by the AHxh. Ya think, abandandoned, deserted, betrayed, cheated on, lied to, double life of a 50 yr porn addiction (total shock to me) Jesus cheater, perverted, perpetrator, untrustworthy, cleaned out our business account, closed my credit cards, cut me off of health insurance benefits, refused to pay me spousal support after 32 years of marriage. I raised three awesome kids, supported him in every way advance in his career and interests. Worked along side him to have financial security and believed in the FAKE DREAMS of growing old together. CRAZY doesn’t even describe what i was. Although thank God I found CL early on a few years ago and kept myself from being arrested! 😉
That sickeness and health, better or worse were only words spoken. Apparently the cheating started in the first couple years of our 32 marriage. I felt like such a fool for being duped. We all feel that way. And seriously I thought the same thing about if I really was crazy, would you make the decision to cut off my health insurance? What a self absorbed jerk who went from fake spouse to monster overnight. It was HELL divorcing him and now 3 years later, 3 grandkids later, 2 kids married, He has the balls to tell me he wishes I would be FRIENDS with him. WTF! I told him he wasn’t capable of being a faithful husband therefore I have no confidence he would be a FRIEND either. You can’t make this shit up.
Sorry we all have had to deal with the real CRAZY’s. And it isn’t us!
Fireball
Me, 34 years married Was in denial for few years ‘cause I wouldn’t & couldn’t believe he’d cheat on me. But when I caught them at whores house middle of the night I knew it was over!
The Whore said sexual things they did together,
Laughing (both of them actually) at me & humiliating me. Weeks later I served him. He was living in whores home until few months ago.. Karma hit. Whore died in car accident.
He now lives in his cousins basement with a new girlfriend. He’s a 70 year old with erectile dysfunction. Ha! He walked out never looked back.
I now believe in Karma. He deserves to have pain & despair for what he did. No guilt or apology ever. But I rather be poor & alone than being cheated on & lied to.
Bless us all here at CN! ♥️
Amen, we have walked in the same shoes on the same path! ???? ????
Fantastic chumptastic!
Years ago, I had conversations with a close friend about divorce. We both were amazed at people moving quickly on to new relationships. Friend commented: they are just trading problems because everybody has them. All goes back to my arrested emotional development theory, cheaters don’t have the maturity to see that.
Serial-cheating asshat cheated during all three pregnancies … (and the time in-between). The pregnancy and post-birth cheating devastated me for a long time.
All three of the pregnancy-OWs were aware of me and the pregnancies (he took my unknowing, pregnant self around them). So, initially, I was livid … with the asshole, but almost equally so with them. And, yep, I wondered “how in the HELL could they do this?”
I’m far enough out from D-days 1 thru a gazillion and almost a year post separation (hallelujah!) … so now when I think of the OWs, I just view them with disgust and contempt. Nothing more; nothing less. They are walking disasters of humanity who willfully chose WHO they have become.
I have zero sympathy, but I also have zero jealousy. I would never want to be who they are (honestly, I couldn’t live with myself knowing I had hurt so many people).
I had a close friend who’s husband was a World Class Cheater; she said she had noticed that most men will cheat when their wives are about seven mos. pregnant, or within the first six months after birth. It’s like they can’t deal with being a daddy, having to grow up, face their mature lives.
And of course she was one of those steadfast “I swore an oath” women; too bad her hubby had edited HIS oath to something incredibly different. It took her striving for the marriage up to the point that he was chasing her out of the house with a knife before she finally decided to get the a&&hole out of her life.
Mine was a pregnancy cheater too.
Freaked out over becoming a Dad
Oh god Alexandra.Please for your sake.Leave.
JessMom I’m in total agreement with you on your view of the OWs.
The 2 OWs that I know about, know that my STBX left me while I was getting treatment for breast cancer. How fucked up do you have to be to rationalize that?! The one that is currently with him has said to me that she feels sorry about my situation. I don’t know how she lives with herself knowing there is a wife and child in pain because of her relationship. What I do know is that I give zero fucks about her because she is not a person I care to know or have in my life. And she can keep the sparkly turn she won. I’m sure her life will be fabulous.
NTC – I can’t tell you what went through the OW’s head in relation to me. In relation to my husband she saw $$$$$$. Who cares now, and CL is right, don’t try to untangle it. I just want to let you know that I bow down to your mightiness (and with a baby in tow what’s more). And they are both military!!!!! OOOOOOh please let us know when it’s time to get the popcorn out.
Attie,
Thank you so much. I didn’t realize how strong I was until I had to be, and being chumped has been the best thing that’s ever happened to me. I am probably going to quit my job, go back to law school, and become a lawyer to help all of the fellow and future chumps out there. Before being chumped, I never had a clue on how to work on me, or be mighty on my own… I thought I needed a sparky person to stand by and support to be mighty. No. Not anymore.
Attie, you as well as Chump Lady and Chump Nation are right—don’t untangle it and I’m not going to anymore. They did it because they COULD. That’s it. That’s all. Nothing more, nothing less. I took CL’s advice after reading all of the comments the other day and folded my daughters cloth diapers. I realized that folding cloth diapers (and anything really) is more important than giving them mental real estate.
Brit,
I don’t think I’m going to pursue anything with the military. As much as I want to destroy my ex cheater and his schmoopie, I don’t think that’s my Karma to give. I think real maturity is having the power to destroy someone, and not doing so. I want all GOOD karma to come my way, and the only way to do that is to give out GOOD karma. His next victim/chump can destroy him if she wants. That’ll be her Karma.
I can’t thank you, Chump Lady, and Chump Nation enough for all of the comments & support.
From what I understand adultery is a serious military infraction especially between two military personnel.
I remember readi
Their commanding officers would be interested in knowing what these two love birds have been up to. You need to make sure their commanding officers are aware of their affair.
Talk to his commanding officer or write a letter explaining that these two military personnel were having an affair while you were pregnant. Describe the trauma you’ve endured. The military has strict guidelines in regards to image.
Her commanding officer should be made aware of her behavior as well.
Make an appointment to speak with her commanding officer, or write a letter.
Be sure to forward a copies to their base commander.
^ ^ ^
Sorry for the awkward post, dogs were on my lap trying to get my attention. Hit send before I should have.
You and those 2 fucktards were in a racecar going 230 mph and headed towards a concrete wall.
Thankfully, you jumped out. You need to focus on tending to your scratches, bruised, cuts, scrapes, etc. that you received from jumping out of the car.
You’ll get to smile someday when you finally see that racecar smash into the wall.
SDC, I love your metaphor!
When I was trying to untangle the skein of fuckedupness, trying to see if there was anything to salvage from my 30 year relationship, my therapist said, “Yes. The car is on fire. Get out of the car now.” God, I loved that.
Mighty auto metaphors…
Metaphors be with us all.
I am a mechanic. I lost my shop during my divorce with Debbie Douchebag. My life has centered around autos, so my entire esteem was crushed and destroyed.
I am gradually rebuilding my life. I now work in a dealership shop and enjoy my “no stress” job of rebuilding transmissions. A Country Boy living in the Big City.
Happy New Year, Diva.
Happy New year, SuperDuperChump. May you regain more than you’ve ever lost. Leave a Cheater, GAIN A LIFE!!
How’s this for mental gymnastics? My STBX told me (before he and OW broke up) that OW understood what I was going through because her husband had cheated on her while they were married a few years previous! And she went on to do that same thing to someone else?! There’s not a universe in which I would’ve become involved with a married man before this all went down; I’m trying to imagine doing it knowing firsthand the havoc and pain it causes. Disordered, selfish and totally mind-boggling.
Wow! This happened to me too. My stbxh OW/AP was also married and her exH cheated on her and left her for someone else. I don’t get it. I don’t understand people like this and the lies. My SIL also mentioned to me that the OW gave him a promise ring (devoting all her love and trust to him) and has been sharing it on social media. My first thought, obviously a ring, let alone marriage vows doesn’t mean a thing to my stbxh and the OW.
The OW’s friend told me she understood because she was cheated on and it’s never ok. She then proceeded to hang out and go to bars with my STBX every weekend and pair her best friend with him. WTF?
I actually questioned her on it, telling her I didn’t understand how she could support a cheater when she herself had been cheated on. She replied her situation was different because it didn’t involve children. WHAT? Do these people hear the shit that comes out of their own mouths?
#metoo. Ex told me the exact same thing and I had the same reaction you did. That just makes it worse. She knows how much pain she is causing and does it anyway. Only a very selfish and self centered person would do such a thing. Ex also said, while we were supposed to be in reconciliation “he was so cruel to have cheated on her and she was so kind to have taken him back” with absolutely no sense of the irony of the statement he made. Pathetic.
@soaring
Same here. My XH’s AP was married to a surgeon who had an affair with a surgical technician. At first, I thought maybe she wanted to “get back at him.” Later, I realized she was looking for her next meal ticket because her own marriage was imploding.
Did she ever think about me? Nope
The OW in my relationship did not care. She told me she knew about me and our 10- month old, but didn’t care. She actually said, “I won he loves me!” She was 20 and believed it when Cheaterpants told her he was trying to leave, but I just wouldn’t let him. He told her he had told me several times it was over, but I refused to leave. Total lie. She was like a kid that got picked first for Dodgeball, thrilled to be #1, but no clue how to deal with the giant red ball aimed for her head!
Reminds me of Britney Spears picture of her wearing a t-shirt that said, “he loves ME” when she was dating Kevin Federline (yep, he was married with a young daughter). She was holding said daughter walking beside Kevin…
Ugh.
She actually said that? Now that’s just sad.
I intentionally avoided collected details. There are only 3 things I know:
1.) Ex didn’t tell AP he was married
2.) When AP found out he was married he claimed “dead marriage, separate lives”
3.) AP dumped him 6 months after divorce
What was she thinking? Was she swindled or a knowing participant? Who knows, who cares.
It’s 5 years since I was chumped – long time. I can think about it all now without feeling much. In the years since then I’ve been unfortunate enough to have several OW unburden themselves to me. I’ve no idea why they choose me. Usually they are people I hardly know and I never ask them to tell me. Maybe they feel the need to confess to someone? What I’ve noticed is the self-pity. They feel very, very sorry for themselves. They don’t talk about the effects on the spouse or children. None of them have had any detectable levels of insight or remorse. And I’ve found they tend to repeat the behaviour. I find them horrifying. I avoid them as much as possible.
Thank you Father M!
M, What do you say to them when they unburden on you? I’m afraid that I’d slash them to smithereens with my tongue. I don’t tolerate cheaters very well, needless to say!
In fact, a very real fear for me is to find that I dated a married man. This is why I don’t date.
Well, sadly my most common reaction so far has been ‘rabbit in headlights’. I’m not very good at dealing with these types of things in the moment. They always catch me by surprise and my brain freezes. Then afterwards I think of all the things I should have said.
It’s true,there seem to be quite a few of them out there, either open about it (“We have an agreement” “My wife is terminally ill” all kinds of bullsh*t) or quite stealthy. I exchanged numbers with a man after a group ride and the following day his girlfriend phoned to yell at me ! I set her straight about how he introduces himself to women.
Take your time getting to know a man-check with people who can verify he is a person of good character, ask to see his driver’s license, go to his home and look around, hold off on having sex with him.
“What in the heck was she thinking sleeping with a married man whose wife was pregnant?
Having had the OW, a divorce attorney 15 years my senior, reveal the affair to me in the most aggressive and painful of ways, when I was about 19 weeks or so pregnant – I have wondered the same thing myself.
And what did her friends and family think? How can you spackle over your “boyfriend’s” PREGNANT WIFE? (And new baby?)
In the future, when they (she) gush over their 3 years of dating bliss (i.e: him lying about her existence) and he mentions the youngest of our 4 children, his 18 month old daughter, aren’t people going to wonder about that math?
And it did happen to me, my ex-husband did try to deny that he was his daughter’s father (an abusive and manipulative allegation considering he is the only man I have even kissed since we were teenagers). The GAL assigned to the case said she would not and could not create a parenting plan if paternity was being questioned, the entire case would need to be halted until baby was born and then she would have a DNA test for all 4 of our preschool aged children. He quieted down after that and the custody case continued (with OW as a self-named witness!). Of course the baby was born looking just like her father.
He would go on to pull the “poor me, my wife was cheating on me” lie to the Police Department in an effort to avoid consequences for serious criminal behavior.
Lastly, if you are expecting a baby, and your spouse is having an extra-marital affair, please be tested for all STDs asap and discuss the rate of seroconversion for Viral STDs. My poor baby daughter, born with blisters on her fist, had to spend the first 10 days of her life in the NICU being treated with anti-viral medication via IV, because the specialist who delivered her believed she had the potentially fatal illness of neo-natal HSV. It was traumatizing and life changing. I am so appreciative and blessed that it turned out to be a false alarm and we are both healthy. It was however an EXTREMELY PRIVATE ordeal to go through that was made very public in our divorce.
One world of honesty from my spouse, and I could have protected my unborn daughter’s health by NOT sleeping with him up until his secret affair partner exposed their affair to me.
Congratulations on your pregnancy/new baby, NewToChumpdon! You got this! I’m off to fold some socks! 😉
I am SO SORRY your poor baby went through this and so glad to hear she’s healthy now.
One thing I didn’t know until just recently was that when you go in and ask to be tested for all the STDs, unless you’re having an outbreak, they generally do NOT test for herpes. (A doctor friend confirmed this, as did my own OB.) NONE of my friends outside the medical field knew this.
I found out the hard way. I had a minor issue “down there” on and off over the years. It was dismissed by my GP as irritated skin and I was advised not to take very hot baths, wear tight pants, or use scented laundry/bath products. Well, one time it was much worse and so painful I went to the OB. She said, “I really don’t think this is herpes, but every now and then it can present like this. We’ll swab it just to rule it out.” Well, uh, it didn’t rule it out. I had had NO idea. I don’t know how long I’ve had it, though I suspect it’s been a long time. I was tested for STDs during every pregnancy and after my ex cheated and left. I was NEVER tested for HSV.
One-quarter of women in the U.S. have genital herpes, and 75 percent of them don’t know it. (It’s about 1 in 8 men.) So if you’ve gotten an STD test, PLEASE check and make sure you were tested for HSV. If you haven’t, you will want an IgG blood test, unless you have something you suspect is an outbreak, in which case they can do a swab.
The sti s are what get me. I know there are more of us here with sti s than will admit. I know a lady who got hiv from her cheating huaband
Very important info, Lollia.
I’ve never disclosed this here until now.
Unfortunately for me, POP was one of the 1/8 and I got to join the 25 per centers.
This knowledge has totally destroyed my self confidence regarding dating–I approach dating with no interest because it’s always in the back of my mind: ‘what if a relationship grows to where it’s time for ‘the talk’?
As it turns out, both of the first string OW knew about me, that he was living off me, his ‘possessions’ were actually mine, have HSV. They BOTH TOLD ME they did when I pinned them down. But they had never told HIM.
This is very informative and interesting topic I wish CL would explore. My husband is 1 of 8. I’ve done the full std test – guess I have to go back and check again (sigh). I always wondered how he dates. I mean telling someone he’s divorced after 20 years and has herpes. Does his date think “great guy, whatta catch.” Or does she put it all together- the cheating and subsequent herpes?
If anyone does decide to pursue HSV testing then please ask your physician for the type specific IGG test. It will need to be at least 3 months (6 is better) since your last “exposure”. One tricky thing, the type specific IGG test would let a patient know if they were “positive” (have antibodies present), but they wouldn’t tell you where on your body – you’d need an outbreak that could be cultured for that. For example, many people would test positive for HSV type 1, but without an outbreak that could be swabbed you’d never know if that meant your infection was oral or genital. It’s so stressful and confusing that the HSV test isn’t standard for that very reason, even for pregnant women.
Best wishes!
Agreed. I was STUNNED and horrified that I had never been tested during any of my pregnancies, when they ran the full battery of tests for everything else.
After my diagnosis, I talked with my girlfriend, who is a GP, about having my BF tested. She did caution me about what you said, which is that an IGG test won’t know where the virus is located or when it was contracted. So if my BF were to test positive, there’s no way of knowing if he got it from me or a previous partner.
I do understand that HSV2 is very rarely present orally, so if you DO have positive antibodies for it, it’s likely genital. HSV1 can be either place.
Hesatthecurb, I found out several months into dating my boyfriend. I was devastated and terrified to tell him, but of course I knew I had to. (At this point, we had already been sleeping together.)
I told him in tears and said I understood if he didn’t want to take that risk and wanted to end things. He told me that he loved me just as much as he did five minutes before I told him and that it didn’t change ANYTHING for him. So there are guys out there who are understanding and not scared off, especially once you explain how common it is.
There are a lot of good resources at Herpeslife.com, by the way. A forum, guidance on how to tell someone, etc.
Big Hugs (((Lollia))) and (((Hesatthecurb))). Lollia’s love story is so uplifting and inspiring. And she’s right, there are many, many forums and support groups, etc available.
Having gone through my unique birth story, who knows what rumors got out about me with flying monkeys help. Anyone who wouldn’t want to be my friend or date me is probably not necessarily an individual I need in my life anyway.
Thank you Tracy for writing on this topic. CN is the best!
I think my reluctance is due to my generation as opposed to the ‘younger’ generation who are more informed, accepting and ‘casual’ about the topic.
Perhaps I will meet a man in the future, go for it and everything will turn out wonderfully–but I am still so burned by narc abuse 7 yrs out, my isolation remains my comfort blanket.
Thanks everyone for everything you have done and said over all the years I’ve been a member of CN–I love all you ‘old timers’ and the ones I’ve not met 🙂
I’m not sure how old you are, but my BF and I are in our 40s, so we’re not exactly spring chickens.
It’s unfortunate that herpes has such negative connotations for so many, but I think people really can be educated on this. I had a guy friend tell me recently that a friend had set him up with a girl who he was really interested in, then mentioned to him that she had herpes. He told me he liked her but didn’t think it was worth the risk. I told him everything I had learned since my own diagnosis, and he was stunned. Had NO idea. Even looked back at his own records and couldn’t believe he’d never been tested for it. I pointed out to him that his chances of catching it with her were lower (if they took precautions) than they were with catching it from a woman who has it and doesn’t know it.
Lollia,
You are exactly right. And HSV is simply a a dermatological issue really, with medication to treat if needed. As you said about 1/2 the planet is walking around with some form of HSV – and 80% of those folks have no idea. Millions of women with HSV give birth every single day – very safely with no complications.
The only time of danger would be a situation like mine, where it is believed that the pregnant woman has contracted the virus for the FIRST time towards the end of pregnancy. What I experienced with our daughter was very rare and VERY DANGEROUS. Luckily for us, ultimately we were both determined to be negative. I am so appreciative and grateful to have a healthy baby after all the stress and worry.
Basically at 39 weeks pregnant I was prescribed a cream to treat a yeast infection (sorry y’all), and I had an allergic reaction. My OBGYN immediately ordered type specific IGG blood work and performed an aggressive culture, because he knew my spouse had been cheating. I was 39 weeks and 5 days pregnant with my 4th baby in 6 years.
Here’s where the extra marital affair impacted my health. My labs all came back negative. However, the Infectious Disease Physicians assigned to our case created a Risk Algorithm. I had only one partner for the past 16 years, so HSV could have been ruled out for our infant daughter….except her father had been cheating during my pregnancy and the rate of seroconversion for HSV (showing an accurate result and not a false negative) can very greatly depending upon an individual’s immune system. Not enough time had gone by to know for absolutely sure…and Physicians like to play it safe (unlike cheaters). This all occurred during a Holiday weekend in a 48 hour time period.
I had an emergency C-Section (before my water broke) when I went into labor, just as a precaution. When my daughter was born and presenting with a blister on her hand – all hell broke lose. The illness she was believed to have is EXTREMELY RARE and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.
My ex-husband denied having slept with me during pregnancy, because he’d rather lie to his affair partner than tell his infant daughter’s physicians the truth. It went on to create a very confusing Risk Algorithm with inconsistent vital information.
While I was in the hospital recovering from the Emergency C Section and sleeping on a couch in my infant daughter’s infectious disease hospital room, I was copied on an email from Opposing Council in our divorce blasting me for the circumstances. I can’t fathom the talent at lying a cheater would need to have to paint himself as the victim in that situation.
I am so appreciative to have a healthy outcome, however it was the most stressful event of my life, and it was 100% preventable.
Those are the most evil people I can imagine a pregnant woman dealing with. And there is a special place in hell for lawyers who have reason to know that their clients are cheating liars, yet without requiring proof, they regurgitate their lies to opposing counsel or the courts.
When my cheating ex kindly passed herpes to me from one of his hookers, I too read the bumf that said it’s no big deal, it’s simply a dermatological issue, medication, episodes, control, blah blah blah. Well that may be the case for most people but not always! I got the kind that even after TWO YEARS of continuous medication I never had more than a couple of pain free weeks. Walking, sitting, just being alive was incredibly painful. My skin down there was so fragile it would tear in the shower. Sex? I have been unable to have sex for more than ten years.
I quit the medication eventually because it made no difference. What eventually cleared it up for me, you ask? Kicking the ex out of the house and out of the country, going 100% no contact and letting go of all that stress. Within months things improved, although the skin is still very fragile. Knowing I will never have sex again is sad, but I’ll survive (and be pain free????)
Koru, I’m SO sorry that you had such a horrible outbreak. Mine was fairly minor and short-lived and the pain was still excruciating. I remember sobbing so hard one night that my oldest son, who is on the spectrum and not always terribly empathetic, came in to hug me, ask what was wrong, and give me one of his stuffed animals.
I hope you continue to improve and that one day sex may be a possibility for you.
Stalked, may you and your child have more happy healthy years to come without the toxic waste that is your ex and the whorse he rode off on.
Stalked,
Your x is the scum of the earth.
His AP is equally evil.
May they bathe in their swamp of vile hatred
Sounds like they deserve each other. Maybe they’ll both get something really rotten!!!
So funny how the OM/OW believe he/she is only lying go you-not to them! LOL!
I can’t believe that jackhole would lie rather than ‘fess up to help doctors help save his child. WOW. You deserve an award for not hacking him to death with a dull machete.
Liars lie and cheaters cheat. Those who have spent a lifetime doing it are also very good at it. I am incredulous that the cheaters are so good and manipulating both chumps and OW. I am no more astonished that cheaters are capable of manipulating OW with lies than I am that they manipulate chumps with lies. Yes many of us didn’t know we were being chomped until we did. Many of us stayed for YEARS and multiple D Days believing all the crap that spewed from the cheaters mouths. It’s only a mistake when we don’t know…once we know..and stay…it becomes a choice. Not all, but many of, believed the lies. Why would we expect someone else not to?
OW are usually some form of damaged so stuff like that doesn’t cross their mind. As far as they are concerned- THEY WON AND YOU DIDN’T.
The cycle is perpetuated when the Dbag they won dumps them. It’s sad really!
Love the reminder that everything else–anything else–is more important than an AP could ever hope to be.
Think I will clean my closet, today. Only cute, well-fitting, post-cheater clothes for me. 🙂
Intensely therapeutic. It’s summer here, and I have started wearing knee-length skirts for the first time in years.
Welcome to this group. Sadly you’re here but glad you’ve found this place. Sounds like you’re way ahead on the road to recovery and doing all things necessary. CL is right. No point in even thinking about the OW and her mindset. Like your STBX, they only think of themselves and live in their twisted world where most of us don’t wanna ever visit. Too bad we can’t just put all
These idiots into a spaceship and shoot them off to Mars or something where they can all just screw each other and live that way forever.
Good luck rest of the way
NTC – my ex was/is military, too. Not sure at this point and don’t care. He cheated several times but of course would deny everything. He traveled a lot and had lots of opportunities. I was so beaten down emotionally by the end of our marriage – I was convinced that he was VERY important and I shouldn’t bother him with phone calls or expect him home on weekends cause he had important meeting to attend – hahaha!!! I was living alone about 90% of the time. I never complained – just plastered a smile on my face when he did come home and accepted that this was normal for a BN CDRs wife. Finally, after being away for three weeks he came home and told me ILYBINILWY and wanted the divorce. I was shocked. I thought I had done everything right. He said he had “friends” when I asked if there was someone else. Then he left. About a week after coming out of the fog I checked our cell phone records. Sure enough – he had a special “friend” that he was calling and texting at all hours. (He called me once a day if I was lucky.) so I looked the OW up using her phone number. She’s twice divorced and has a daughter. And she was a past GF of my ex. I believe they reconnected through FB. I don’t really know what he told the OW cause he denied she existed to me. But his boss’s wife called me and told me that he told her husband we had grown apart and that I asked for a divorce. (Uh – no) So he had been lying to them too! I expect he lied to the OW also – but it doesn’t justify the cheating by either of them. She knew he was still married. Besides having low moral character – I believe she is a desperate whore. And LTC Dick – he was relieved of command not long after he left me and told to retire. So – he’s not so sparkly now. Just a washed up old turd.
My ex is an LTC Dick too, Brightfuture. I am staying anonymous on this post because of details. I am still a little afraid of him and his wrath. Interesting that yours had repercussions from the military. Mine took up with her (high school, Facebook cheater) before asking for the divorce. He went TDY a couple of days after filing, arranged to stay over the weekend. Then took a rental car and drove to see her, staying in a hotel in her home town 3 hours away from his military assignment. Shady but not sufficient proof. A couple other similar incidents before divorce final. He arranged to arrive at his next duty station the day after divorce was final, with OW in tow, as she had agreed to move on with him.
Did I mention the text 2 months after deciding to divorce telling me that she would be going with him, that they had been serious “for a while”? Not like the while that we were together, the 30+ years kind of a while.
Mine traveled all the time and was terrible to reach by phone. I stopped trying to call him the last couple of years unless it was urgent. I hated the awkward conversations with co-workers who felt sorry for me not being able to reach him.
Over and done. At least we are no longer the Mrs. Dick’s, right!?
You are so right Anonymous! I think once his Commander knew the truth he wasn’t willing to support him when he started screwing up. He lost his job because he was so busy running the roads – lots of vacations and such that he wasn’t DOING his job. He got cocky. So, technically – the consequences were really his own doing. I don’t take any credit…..????
What is it about the rank LTC? My military cheater was also an LTC. I think it must be the rank when they get just enough clout/power to become attractive to military otherwhores.
It would be interesting for Chump Lady to explore (UBT) this topic from the male perspective (i.e., “Dear Chump Lady, What are OM thinking?”)
I am curious, male Chumps. Do you think there is a competitive component on the part of the male AP?
Good question.
Patriarchy? Of that I’m not so sure. Where I was brought up both men and women equally were taught not to mess with another man/woman’s partner. It was/is severely frowned apon.
There isn’t a central clique of men running this stuff. Telling all the boys the unwritten rules of affairs.
And if modern stastics are anything to go by then females are having just as many affairs as the men.
Now is the OM in competition with you? IMO no. They are in competition with society. The rules. You don’t come into it. You’re kids don’t come into it. Their ego comes into it because they got to bang a married woman. The forbidden fruit, the ultimate prize. You and all you built with your ex wife means nothing to them.
Think about this. Remember the 101 ways your ex wife told you how you sucked as a husband? Yea well he heard 10001 of those reasons. Easiest play in the book. Drink a shut the fuck up smoothie, let her moan about you then throw in the odd compliment. “But you’re such a catch”, “he doesn’t understand you like I do”.
Barf.
So all that stuff you were doing that made you boring, unattractive etc (we call it life in the adult world but we’re not dealing with adults here) is now his turn. If it works out, he becomes you and she gets bored and cheats again. If it doesn’t work out he cheats and she’s on her own, turning back to plan B. That would be you.
Don’t let that happen.
Peace
Yup. Agree.
There may be some competitiveness with some of the OM (or even most). I wouldn’t say the OM in my situation was competing with me since he wasn’t willing to leave his wife for mine (even though he told her that he would during the A). I think he saw her as a side piece.
Though I will say this, and I found this out later, my ex was in the process of starting relationships with other OM (who also had significant others) since the original OM wouldn’t leave his wife, and apparently this made the original OM very jealous.
So I think the OM see our wives as certainly more theirs than ours – even though sometimes they aren’t willing to make any commitment to them. Maybe that’s competition, but it’s certainly egotistical and selfish.
@Star, not in my case. The only thing that was competing against me was KK’s bottomless pit of attention-seeking. Which as no contest, as was evident by her having 9 different “encounters” with 5 different guys within the first 30 days after I stupidly agreed to her request for an open marriage. Any APs involved with her during that period were either given the line about me being OK with her doing whatever she wanted, or weren’t told about me at all.
The thing that creeps into my head from time to time is: RPD attended several of my story slam events with his wife (including “The Stranger,” in which I described confronting KK and the Carrot Singer) while seeing KK — in fact, he and KK had been sneaking around to hotels, to NYC, etc. for more than 6 months that first time I looked out at the audience and saw him sitting there with Mrs. RPD.
I wonder whether, once (a) she was freed from the apparently hellish existence of being my wife, and (b) she could lay claim to having been “sexually sophisticated” enough to fuck anybody or anything that filled the attention void, she suddenly settled into the traditional OW role and put the screws (so to speak) to RPD to make up his mind, lest she withhold that golden crotch of hers.
If so, I like to think that the now-ex Mrs. RPD somehow found this site and is having as big a laugh over the two of them as I am.
@UXworld – I saw this earlier and for some reason thought of KK’s partner in story-telling.
https://www.facebook.com/nerdswithvag/photos/a.497879366967928.1073741838.175207162568485/1650419495047237/?type=3&theater
Brilliant! Thanks for sharing!
UXworld,
I wonder what the now-ex Mrs. RPD would think about being called Mrs. RPD, knowing what RPD stands for. Not being privy to the details of her relationship with RPD, it’s hard to speculate, but being referred to that way would give one pause.
But I do think that there is a soupçon of “I won her” that RPD must be feeling, particularly when performing the act that his nickname alludes to, ….
Hugs. Strength. Peace.
aeronaut
As a male, I definitely think there’s a competitive component to being an OM. I can’t speak from direct experience, as I’ve never been an OM, but I can certainly imagine that it’s a bit of a thrill for an OM to think, ‘She’s married, but I bagged her. I’m more studly than her husband.’
However, I suspect that for most OM, it’s about more sex, whether they are married or not. If a potential OM sees a woman who he is attracted to, but knows she’s married and committed to her marriage, then the return (sex) on investment (wooing, flirting, all that) will be very low, and he’ll look for an easier target. Women who will have sex more readily are better targets. (Note that this reinforces the idea that the affair isn’t the OM or OW’s fault, per se, but is the choice of the cheater. If it wasn’t that OM/OW, it would have been another – the cheater is gonna cheat, and that’s on them and them alone.)
I also suspect that there’s a cadre of OM who don’t want commitment, just want a bunch of side pieces, and if a woman is married and has a lot to lose if the affair is discovered, the OM doesn’t have to worry as much about getting trapped in a committed monogamous relationship with her. Never mind that this kind of OM could destroy many marriages, and leave dozens of kids in broken homes, it’s about adding more women to that life list of people the OM has banged, and having sex a lot. This kind of OM would be perfectly content with a ‘friend with benefits’ relationship with a woman who flat out told him something like, “you’re fun to be with and good in bed, but definitely not marriage material.” For me (single for this example), that declaration would end any relationship on the spot, but for this type of OM, music to their ears.
So, Star Tingover, I think there can be a competitive aspect to the OM, but there are a few different kinds of OM. It’s the opposite of the pick me dance. The OM seduces, and the cheater falls into his arms. He wins, and it’s better because she was supposed to be committed to another. The notion is, “It’s easy to win an unattached woman, much harder to steal one from someone else, but I’m a winner, see, I got her.”
Yecch. This whole line of thinking makes me want to take a scalding hot shower.
Hugs. Strength. Peace.
aeronaut
That’s easy. When a married woman hangs a “Free Pu$$y” sign around her neck it has the same effect as a fresh zebra kill to vultures. They all come circling for easy pickins’.
There are plenty of unscrupulous scoundrels out there (mostly married) who see a secret affair with a married woman as the safest form of recreational sex.
She gets her excitement fix and they get a hassle-free side piece, unlike the complications of an AP who’s single and might eventually demand more.
Ask me how I know.
Beautifully put!
You are brilliant, mighty, insightful!
When I offered a similar take on the OM to my wife, she insisted her loverboy wasn’t like that, and their “love” was of the higher, Steve Winwood variety. Hm. Funny how, a year later, doucheweasel still hasn’t ditched the missus.
Bonus points for the Steve Winwood reference.
IMO it’s a patriarchy thing. There is nothing more retrograde and un-feminist than being an OW. (Although many try to dress it up as sexual sophistication.) You’re competing for scraps of a man’s attention. You’re OKAY being less than a full partner. Engaging in the pick me dance (fighting to be primary partner) says you’re okay with the power imbalance. Men are precious commodities to be fought over.
Now, OW I’ve read try to dress it up as “I’m so independent, I don’t need all of anyone. I don’t need monogamy.” Then… you wouldn’t do the pick me dance, and you wouldn’t write insipid articles on HuffPo and elsewhere about how enlightening your affairs are.
OM don’t write to me. OM don’t wring their hands and wonder when she’s leaving her husband for him. If I were to generalize (closing in on 18 million page views, I think I can generalize), I’d say men see it as a bit on the side and don’t over think it. OW do the catfight thing. Which keeps the patriarchy alive, if you ask me.
Yup-other men see it as easy pickings,no strings attached.
John, a kind pediatrician, was married to a woman who ran around on him. He knew Susan through work and always enjoyed talking to her at work conferences. Being married, it never crossed his mind to act on his feelings of attraction for Susan. Susan told us she had a crush on him but knew he wasn’t available because he’s m-a-r-r-i-e-d.When his wife separated from him to be with the single man she had been spreading her legs for she quickly learned that single man wasn’t “looking for anything serious”. He was happy to have casual sex with her, a relationship not so much.
Wife came running back to John, hoping to reconcile. John decided he didn’t deserve to treated like sh*t, told his wife to gtfo and married Susan.
What CL said. Patriarchy is still a thing.
Right on, sisteefriend.
Agreed, for the reasons you stated and more. That’s why I was double-gobsmacked when my intensely feminist, independent, “sisters-before-misters” wife cheated with the married father of a small child. All is fair in the name of true love and Forces Bigger Than Us, apparently…
>>There is nothing more retrograde and un-feminist than being an OW.<<
Agreed, for the reasons you stated and more. That's why I was double-gobsmacked when my intensely feminist, independent, "sisters-before-misters" wife cheated with the married father of a small child. All is fair in the name of true love and Forces Bigger Than Us, apparently…
I asked my wife repeatedly how she could cheat with another man’s wife (and a small child’s dad). Her curt and cold response: “Her marriage is not my problem.” Breathtaking to hear that come from the mouth of someone you’ve loved and respected for two decades, someone you never believed was capable of such skulduggery. Hugely tempting to untangle the skein, so that you can assure yourself that they are wounded or misguided or temporarily insane or anything other than a stone-cold narcissist.
I meant to post the reply above the end of the thread, in response to today’s main post. Ah, well…
>>There is nothing more retrograde and un-feminist than being an OW.<<
Agreed, for the reasons you mentioned and more. Which is why I was double-gobsmacked when my intensely feminist, independent, sisters-before-misters wife happily cavorted with the married father of a small child. All is fair in the name of true love and Forces Bigger Than Us, see…
I have a colleague who is cheating on his wife of 30 years. OW is now claiming that she is LESBIAN to try and deny the affair. (They’ve been seen so I know it’s real). How crazy is that? What is this OW thinking?
It’s the big lie. A little lie is seen as a lie, but a big one has the ring of possible truth to it. Now, it might be too much for her to claim that she’s a space alien, but a lesbian is a believable big lie. Further, it’s salacious.
As they say, a lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on. Throw enough falsehoods at an issue, and outsiders think everything is suspect, even the truth. Same defense that some politicians are using about claims of sexual harassment.
Hugs. Strength. Peace.
aeronaut
My ex and ex babysitter, now married, put up a big sign next to their front door “THERE IS NO WRONG LOVE.” Apparently he sees himself Romeo, star-crossed lover. She was star-crossed lovers with several married men and she got a green card out of the deal. It’s not wrong! It’s two luv! Really!
Here’s basically the OW/OM thought process:
a. “I am horny and need a fuck. You will do.”
b. “All is fair in love and war.”
And that’s it, folks. Nothing more complicated than that. In their minds, statement b excuses everything.
Agreed. As infuriating as that may be, they are probably that simple.
Get yourself a picture of David Koresh, or some other child marrying polygamist, and tape it to the sign. Well, not really, just in your head.
Hugs. Strength. Peace.
aeronaut
Oh, I’d say “really.” That’s awesome.
“Cool”
“Wow”
What a pair !
You have got to be so insecure about your position to put a sign outside your home!!!! Delight in the fact that they are feeling their earned shame and are pedaling as fast as they can to escape it.
Omg! Shaking my head! So sorry for you chomping!
There is a spectrum of OW, from selfish women who just don’t care that their AP is married, to women who think they are rescuing the AP, to women who prey on marriages for their own personal gain. The OW in my case preyed on me, and my marriage. Granted, she needed a willing AP and found one, but she amazingly did it all with a metaphorical halo over her head to this day 3 years later. There are a lot of people who know, and don’t like her, but she hasn’t been publicly sanctioned by her peers as far as I know. She even shows up at the small church my parents go to. The truth is she spent years developing a relationship with my X and undermining our marriage all while being my “friend”. It is pretty sick, like throwing a puppy out the window sick.
Ready for Ow-troll alert!
I only have direct knowledge of the thinking of one OW, who claimed that the wife of the married man she was contemplating sleeping with, was not her problem. OW lack compassion, common sense, and they have the theory of mind of a cockroach unable to know what they may be doing to another human being.
Some are narcissists themselves, I suspect. Some are materialistic and want our life/house; the younger OW-older men combination is probably due to daddy issues. In other words, while academically fascinating, the mind of an OW is not a pretty place.
Yep, Mrs. Dumb-Ass probably thought that TEO’s $22/hour job +plus over time pay when she was his OWhore was her ticket out of Mommy and Daddy’s house, plus a daddy for her two kids, SCORE!
Hahahahaaaa, dumb ass. I would LOVE to know how she views her choices now.
It’s OK for TEO to not pay child support, but it’s not OK for her exh to not pay his?
SMH
Tempest…YES! Daddy issues, indeed. STBX’s schmoopie slipped up when gushing about the vibrator he gave her for Christmas last year: “Its made me a better person [????WTAF??]. I never had one before…it’s so dad.”
“…I mean sad.”
Yes. Sad. Pathetic.
Hmm..self-improvement via dildo? That’s one I haven’t heard before.
Love the “It’s so dad” comment, ChumpDiva!
You can’t make this $hit up, right? They are unbelievable.
Given MOW’s range of skills/interests, I suspect the Jackrabbit probably DID make her a better…whatever she is. Skanks have needs, too, I suppose. It’s so dad.
I mean sad.
Trust that they suck.
And have all the depth of a mud puddle.
Quite the Freudian slip there !
Yes!
The few OW that I’ve known have all either callously claimed that since they aren’t the ones in the marriage, they can’t be at fault, or like one co-worker of mine, who doesn’t understand why I don’t spend time with her outside of work (my friends have integrity, so no thanks) loves to believe a guy when he claims he’s separated, or that he’s only married for the kids, or that he’s gonna divorce……someday.
I think they love the drama. Its a kind of fantasy based thinking that leads them to believe that being chosen over another makes them extra special.
This coworker, who enjoys the topic of conversation as long as it is about her, doesn’t share with me so much anymore, as I don’t give her sympathy so much as I call bullshit on everything she tells me about the guys and their intentions. I rain on her parade when she’d rather daydream about true love. I’m right every time, but still……….
The OW knew me and every detail of my life and family. (My ex was her boss). So, she heard the details of our vacations, holidays and son’s achievements over the twenty plus year that they worked together. About his pretty/ smart CPA wife, who’s a great cook, has a great job and gardens and decorates so well. All of this bliss while the first marriage that she destroyed was falling apart and one of HER sons was in a Juvenile Detention Facility. Did she care about me? No. Did she care about my sons? No. (She doesn’t even care about HER sons!) Well schmoopie, you can have him, the Sociopath that he is. Have you figured out yet who really made him look that good? Because, since the two years that he’s been with you, he’s aged twenty years! Good riddance.
I have wondered this a THOUSAND times. In my case, the OW was also married and was a friend of mine (not a close friend, but someone I liked and considered a friend). Ex and I had three small kids, then ages 2, 4 and 6. Of course this was this “SPECIAL AND AMAZING!!!!” love that boring, saggy me who was busy with three kids could never hope to compete with. How can neither of them think it will happen again? Her marriage lasted less than 8 months. I suspect she wasn’t his first AP, either, though I have no proof otherwise.
In the end, I just shrug and chalk it up to a mindset that I wasn’t raised with and won’t ever understand. (To be fair, ex wasn’t raised this way either. His parents are lovely, still happily married 45-plus years later and were shocked and horrified.)
NewToChumpdom,
At the risk of untangling the skein, ….
In a very real sense, the issue that lets an OW be an OW is the fundamental truth of narcissism. Narcissists don’t see others as people like them. They see others as, I don’t know, things or something. I mean, suppose the chair is married to the ottoman, and then you decide that you want to sit on the chair with your feet on the floor, and push the ottoman away. That’s how a narcissist views the world.
So yes, they think they are special. They are the only creature in existence with actual feelings. Of course it will be different between them and the cheater, because they have feelings, and everyone else (even the cheater) are just things. The way they view the world in many ways explains the way they interact in the world.
All that said, great job being a mighty chump. I hope that you stay active here, and eventually post about your day in court. Stories of chumps coming out on top are very inspiring here, and most welcome.
Finally, aren’t there some serious consequences to adultery for military members? Have you considered reporting them to their commanding officers, or using the threat of reporting them to position yourself for a better settlement?
Hugs. Strength. Peace.
aeronaut
Hi Aeronaut,
Thank you (and CL & CN) for your insight and very supportive responses. its very helpful to understand so I can move on.
To answer your question, I was advised by my (very mighty and very awesome) lawyer to not pursue anything with the military since my cheater would probably get demoted, and thus, reduce child support. He’s a coward and is scared of what I know and don’t know, and scared of what I’m going to do. So, my lawyer is planning to use the knowledge in court for a better settlement. But my goodness do I want to report him soooo badly.
-NTC
P.S. Thank you CL & CN! I am overwhelmed with thanks for all of the support received here, and CL is right—I didn’t read untangling the skein. I will be doing so after I read the responses from Chump Nation.
My cheating ex was a military officer. Not only did I turn him in, I convinced his command that he was a threat to national security. That’s what happens when you sleep with an Eastern European foreign national. My lawyer told me the same thing about child support and alimony. My response, I don’t give a shit about the money. I can get a job. I have custody of my kids. My nine year takes every cent I get from my husband and invests it. We’re kind of killing it at this who gain a life thing. My husband loved the Marine Corp, just not enough to follow their rules. And when he tried to tell the judge that I ruined his career, I was like no, you sleeping with some Latvian spin instructor ruined your career.
Good for you, Jenny. Often the behavior of these military officers speaks for itself and the military quietly dumps them. My X was an O-6 who made a huge public display of cheating at foreign war college. He was all over one of two women enrolled in the course. She was there to “make connections” with as many of the 60+ guys in the course as she could. My narcissistic X thought she was a big catch and everyone else would be impressed. I was working back in the US, but other wives alerted me. I told him that he was ruining his reputation and demonstrating to those in charge that he had poor judgment, but he wouldn’t listen. He told me I was “just jealous,” as if we were in high school. He should have been on track to be a general, but after that the military “put him out to pasture.” He moped for a couple of years and then took a foreign national OW2 TDY overseas. He ended up getting out of the military shortly thereafter, 2 years early. With no other job at the time. He ended up with OW2, whose sister informed me that she thought he was rich, but “calls him a fat ass and limp —-“ behind his back. So it’s not as if they shine if we don’t report them.
I’ve heard of other military spouses keeping quiet because of the demotion as well. Alimony, retirement, & child support for the spouse will be less .
I wonder if that’s part of a plan to either save military money or to keep the documented reports of adultery in the military down.
You are right aeronaut. Adultery is punishable under military code. However sometimes pursuing a 15-6 investigation hurts the spouse more than the cheater. If nothing else adultery can be used by the spouse in negotiating a better settlement. My ex was very afraid I would pursue that course of action. His fear benefited me in reaching a settlement much quicker. And although I didn’t take official action against him I did inform his Commander of the true story which I believe lead to his early retirement.
My sock drawer is legend among my friends.
Earlier this morning I wrote a lengthy and overly complex post analyzing Mme YogaPants and Senor MoneyBags and their supposed motivations. And then I closed the window without hitting “post”. The reason why is that it doesn’t matter. My sock drawer (and it is awesome) is more important in my life than they are.
I think that trying to understand the motivations of the OP or the cheater just plays in to the “Blame the victim” narrative. I’m not perfect by any means but there was nothing that was worth blowing up a marriage of 26 years for on my side. Them, I can’t control and shouldn’t try to. I should just focus on myself and having a well organized sock drawer and tie rack and on moving forward in my life. They aren’t part of it.
BT
If I were not firmly located in the southern hemisphere, would totally date you, BowTie. A well-organised sock drawer is very appealing to me.
Ahh BowTie I bet your sock drawer is awesome! Reading CL’s reply about posting the mindset of the OM is not worth the time as most OM are happy and content seeing the affair as just getting some on the side. They usually don’t want a real relationship and are in it for what it is….
Sounds like OM in your situation is still treating Mme YogaPants like a piece of ass. She sits in her apartment waiting for the roll call and is a stand in for Senor MoneyBags deadwife as a booty call only. I bet that’s a real fun way to live. She will never move up to wife material unless he decides he wants a trophy wife only (and she’ll need to get back in shape for that).
Meanwhile, back to regularly scheduled program, time to move on to the underwear drawer? Folding the whitey tighties and boxers? Anything including watching paint dry is more appealing than cheaters.
My situation is different. The OW set her sights for my husband. She knew he was married and had kids. She can’t have kids so I guess she thought she would play mommy to mine. She’s married. She (still) works with my husband, she joined all his clubs, started getting interested in his interests.
She totally insinuated herself into his life and made herself 100% available to him. Every chance she had to trash-talk me, she took. She worked long and hard to destroyed our marriage. Her efforts almost worked but only because I did not know about their affair. Once I did find out, I waged my own war. I did not confront my husband right away. Instead I became a better girlfriend than the girlfriend. I suppose Tracy will say that I was doing the Pick Me Dance. I am here to say that it worked. Then I made him work to keep our marriage together. We are in a good place now.
The OW had years to try to make my husband leave me. He was using her the whole time. Yes, I know this doesn’t say anything good about him.
Yes, I also know people will jump all over me for wanting to stay married to him. Yes, I also know he could go back to her, or someone else, at any time. If that happens, he’s gone. But in the meantime, I’m fine; we’re fine. I hope she is miserable. I hope the OW feels used and discarded. She was.
I know many other women are clueless, but the OW in my life is evil, calculating, and destructive. I pray every day that karma comes and kicks her in the ass – good and hard.
Hi Dana!
I really hope you’re happy 🙂 You deserve all the happiness in the world. I obviously don’t know much about your relationship, but whether you stay or leave will always be your choice. I’m glad you found us and if you ever need support, don’t hesitate to ask!
The only thing I would really very strongly urge you to do is to protect yourself just in case. Because he allowed this person into your lives, you know he is at the very least capable of allowing a person like that into your lives. Regardless or any promises and hopes of a unicorn, you have seen this happen and you should protect yourself. Get a postnup.
If we’re wrong, then he should not object to this and it will not affect you or your husband in the future whatsoever.
If we’re right, you’re covered… just in case.
Dana, no one’s attacking you or jumping all over you. Lots of us have been exactly where you are standing.
I think we’re all glad you’re here. Keep visiting. Keep reading.
She may very well be evil, calculating and destructive BUT YOUR husband allowed that evil, calculating and destructive person into your lives. Unless she held a gun to his head only he had the power to do this. He was not powerless to her charms. #truth
If you’re fine, why are you here?
@Dana …. good luck! So your man was a “victim” of an evil OW? She will move on, but will you? Keep a close watch on your prize, leopards don’t change their spots!
Stand by …
One of the OWs in my situation was also a stalker … “gotta have him at any cost” kind of fucked-up. She got a job directly across from asshole’s place of employment and even moved into an apartment across from ours (with full view of our apartment). Then she got a job with him — and cut her hair to look like mine. He was screwing her while I was pregnant with baby #2 and after the baby was born. The only thing that stopped the affair was that we moved out of state. Because she was just a “side piece” to him, he wasn’t interested in giving her the information (thank goodness for small favors).
I didn’t find out until much later that all of this had happened. Asshole cheater’s response to my horror about her stalking us … “Wow, I didn’t know.” Bullshit. Of course he knew — at bare minimum he knew ENOUGH that he should have been concerned about her behavior.
The primary thing here isn’t that she was a crazy stalker (though, that was certainly a concern) … the really big deal was that jackass wasn’t completely horrified at what HIS actions had helped to cause.
If he gave a shit AT ALL about our family, he would have been mortified and remorseful. But he wasn’t. Rather, in hindsight, I see that he took it as a fucking compliment that she had gone to such lengths to be with him. This is NOT the kind of person who will ever respect or protect his family.
A good man wouldn’t allow a woman like this to insinuate herself into his life and destroy his family. Hope you caught a unicorn. But I wouldn’t want to lay my head on a pillow next to a man like that. I hope you got a post-nuptial agreement. I hope your H is in counseling. Keep your ducks lined up and good luck.
I’m confused… Your husband continued the affair for YEARS while you were ramping up your efforts to keep him in the marriage? It comes across as you and the OW were “fighting” over him albeit she was unaware of your mission. I understand loving your spouse, but if that person is not fully reciprocating and chose to be with another woman behind your back, what was your reasoning for accepting his behavior? Don’t you feel he was using you as well as her during that time? I’m not knocking your reconciliation – as long as you’re happy, that’s all that matters. However I’m curious, how do you know it’s truly over between them now? It would drive me insane knowing that they still work together and have long history.
My ex claimed a crazy woman was pursuing him early on in our marriage. I mistakenly believed his story and wrote her off as such. He was with me, not her. Little did I know that she was a presence in the wings spanning 2 decades, plus some other women along the way, too. Hindsight is 20/20. Good luck to you.
Well said LAJ. I’m glad Dana has come here for support which makes me think she doesn’t really trust him, otherwise she would be visiting the wreckonciliation sites. I thought I had a unicorn the first time I caught Dr. Turd cheating. Our kids were little and I worked too. He left us for twice married, couldn’t have children, history of cheating on husbands howorker. The only spackle I could come up with is he was weak from the stress of his job and she was out to get a rich doctor and insert herself into my life and try to mommy my kids.
He begged back and moved into the smaller home I bought for me and my little ones. Over the years I realized I was the giver and he was the taker. Everything revolved around what he wanted to do and his happiness.
Ultimately I found out he was pursuing DD14’s 20-something y.o. asst sports coach while he was volunteer coaching. I had heard about how awful everyone was to this poor lil damsel in distress. Her life was soooo hard, blah blah blah. She’s innocent in all this.
I have finally realized he wasn’t some weak man falling prey to these crazy women looking to bag a doctor. He’s a predator and is preying on these weak women. I wasn’t ready to see that early on unfortunately. I knew he sucked and what he did sucked. But I spackled that shit like mad. I ultimately had a jackass with a horn glued to his forehead and no unicorn in site…..
Yet more wonderful wisdom to ponder areonaut! Thankful to these seasoned chumps who stick around to help the rest of us! The chair and ottoman analogy is a keeper.
I was friends with someone in college who I eventually realized only slept with men who were married or otherwise in relationships. Didn’t understand why she would want to do that. She purported that it was less stress, because she could just have the sex part and nothing else. There was one particular guy who she seemed to really love. One day, she was depressed and told me that she realized that this guy wasn’t ever going to leave his wife. Aha, the plot thickens….seems that she did actually want a real relationship, and for him to leave his wife.
BTW, she was a hot mess emotionally. Liar, unbalanced, and bulimic. Very sad.
In our culture, we condition women to feel special only when they stand apart from other women. “You’re not like other girls!” “You like cool things like sports and drink whiskey, not like other girls!” “I don’t like pink and frilly things, like other girls!”
Couple that with the stereotype of the crazy, bitter, nagging, sexless wife and BOOM you have the OW mentality that she is saving this man from his horrible life. That there love is super special because he’s not a bad guy! No. He’s just misunderstood and he didn’t want to cheat, but she’s so super special and not like other girls that he couldn’t help himself.
blah, blah, blah, blah, blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
She got a turd and you got a life. Stay mighty!
The stereotype of the boring, nagging, sexless wife … that was something that I always thought was just a stupid stereotype most people wouldn’t actually believe. Then I discovered my serial-cheating asshole completely abides by this. Via VAR, I heard him and his buddies (many co-workers) agreeing with the stereotype. To them, it’s just a fact of life — you have to get married, have kids, and you have to work … that’s the ball and chain of life. They see this as boring, mundane drudgery.
The experience of hearing all of this turned my view of people into a bit of a horror show … I was stunned at the lack of character and the immaturity. But I was even more stunned at how many people were like this. Okay, to be honest, I’m still a bit stunned …. it’s such a horrible worldview. 🙁
Chagrined to see this posted on a former neighbor’s Fakebook page “No man is complete until he is married . And then he is finished” I hope his wife gets away from this narc before they have children.
It shocks me too. I have a friend. A very smart, intelligent successful friend, who has had her share of heartbreak. Yet, she buys into this too. She works with a lot of men and she listens to them tell her about their awful marriages. How they won’t leave because they adore their children. How she uses them for only their money. How cold their wives are to them. I’ve dug enough to be pretty sure that she isn’t having sex with any of them, but they are still feeding her it and she’s eating it up, giving them the confidence that they are right. She feels so sorry for them. It’s sad how selfless they are staying in a loveless marriage. *gag*
She’s said to me more than once about my XH, “I don’t know why he just didn’t leave if he was unhappy.” I can see the look on her face when I explain that he wasn’t unhappy. That a few hours before I confronted him, he was walking around the house whistling, hugging me, and talking about remodeling the kitchen and where to go on our summer vacation. She looks like I’m trying to explain quantum physics to her.
I was always bothered by the whole ball and chain mentality. I was even more bothered when I found out that apparently my ex had this mentality too.
It really is messed up. My big question was — if he believed this, then why in the hell ever get married? And, why not have the spine to say so up-front? Would have been fantastic information to have in the beginning! I would NEVER have purposefully married someone with this mentality (but, of course, he knew this — which is why he hid his feelings on the subject).
What I figured out about the serial-cheating asshole is that he KNOWS it’s a bunch of bullshit, but it is one of those crappy misogynistic stereotypes that enable him to justify his bad behavior. So, he simply uses it to his advantage. Pathetic.
His excuse for why he got married to me … “To take you off of the market” … well, thanks for that one-sided bunch of BS and unilateral decision-making over my life, asshole.
JesssMom,
Exactly what you said!
I a