Dear Chump Lady, Am I an insensitive jerk because my husband wants to date?
Dear Chump Lady,
Am I being unreasonable for having a problem with my husband’s ongoing relationship with a woman he tried unsuccessfully to seduce?
One night about a year ago, we both got home from our respective jobs and my husband burst into tears. I’m talking, deep, rasping sobs. With his head on my lap he told me he’d been courting a coworker for a few months, buying her gifts and taking secret time off of work to take her on day trips. When he finally put the moves on her the previous evening (he often stays late), she shut him down and said, “not going to happen.”
At first I thought his tears were bitter tears of remorse, having almost ruined a twenty-year marriage. But upon further probing, I discovered that it was the rejection that had him crying in my lap. “Just once I want to be loved!” Excuse me, hello? Who said “I do” in front of our family, our pastor, and our entire church? He explained that he was having trouble forgiving me for my initial rejection of him when we were in high school and then he dumped a laundry list of problems he had with me that could circle the planet three times.
He said the almost-OW made him feel alive. I asked, “well then sweetie, shall we separate?” He said no, there was no point. Oh well then, allow me to be your consolation prize! Long story short, we separated for nine months. Our fifteen-year-old son was furious with both of us. My husband and I stayed in touch and tried to work it out. He and the almost-OW never had sex and now we’re back together.
However… he has remained very good friends with the almost-OW. He texts her regularly right in front of me. I won’t stoop to snooping on his phone but I can see what he’s writing! It’s mildly flirtatious, which is how, incidentally, he describes their relationship. I’m positive they haven’t had sex because this woman is perfectly happy to be worshiped for free, but I have a serious problem with their relationship. When my husband announced that he was going to meet her after work for drinks last night, I made a very snarky remark and he was furious. He told me the courtesy of telling me he was going to spend time with her was over. He maintains that he is doing absolutely nothing wrong, they are just friends, and that I’m being petty. So, am I the one being a jerk about this? Technically he hasn’t cheated.
Yours
Insensitive Lady-Jerk
Dear Perfectly Reasonable Lady,
Technically, you haven’t stuffed his balls down his throat yet.
Is this a question about technicalities? Because uh, technically you’re still his wife and technically, he’s not supposed to go on dates until you are technically divorced.
He’s got some fucking nerve.
Sobbing about his failed dating strategies? You let this man drape his moist, snotty self all over your lap and wail about another woman?
Look, Lady, he’s a flaming asshole, but you have to stop being a chump. You separated and then took him back without any consequences or boundaries. He meets her for drinks? No, he meets her for CAKE. This whole “I’m going on dates and you’re not the boss of me!” is completely unacceptable. Start ACTING like it is unacceptable to you. Lawyer up. Why does he think you separated? Because you’re just mean like that? NO. Because he was openly trying to have an affair in front of you. He’s moves home, and then he goes right back to the same old shit?
Is this relationship ACCEPTABLE to YOU? Who cares if he thinks you are “petty” — do you think this kind of flagrant disrespect belongs in a marriage? If you don’t, then get your ass to a lawyer’s office. You don’t need a marriage counselor to explain to him that dating other women in front of you and then whinging about it is Wrong. If he’s that dim, you should divorce him for felony stupid.
No, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He’s being abusive. He’s being very in-your-face about his attempted infidelities to hurt you. To goad you into the pick me dance. To humiliate you. To belittle you into accepting his cake-eating as Right and Proper.
Lady, you need to shut that shit down.
For one thing, get to a lawyer fast before his employer does. You only have his side of this kibble love affair. For all you know, his advances are unwelcome and that woman is seeing an EEOC officer as we speak. This guys is walking the razor’s edge of a sexual harassment lawsuit. You need to get a settlement in place before he loses his job. She told him “not gonna happen” — next she’ll be telling that to Human Resources.
I’m sorry your 15 year old is in the middle of this, but he’s a kid and he doesn’t get to call the shots in your marriage. Staying with this asshole is modeling TERRIBLE things to him about how you treat a marriage partner. He needs to see you stand up and not tolerate abuse. He needs to see that there are consequences to disrespecting and endangering the people we purport to love. He might not like it at first. Kids want to know if their world is going to be safe (where will I spend holidays? will I see my mom and dad both? will I move away from my friends?) Get him some therapy and be the sane parent.
It doesn’t matter if the affair was physical or not, start calling the shots, Lady. It matters that he is emotionally abusing you and refuses to stop. It matters that he’s blaming YOU for some perceived slight from high school.
He doesn’t get to do everything short of fuck her and then claim it’s A-okay because he didn’t consummate the act. The issue is that he wants to live like a single person, but enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage. That’s more than enough reason to divorce his ass yesterday.
When you serve him papers, say “Just once you want to be loved? Here’s your freedom. Have at it, Tiger.”
The only insensitive jerk in this situation is your husband. This is not a man with any empathy for you. You have become a person that is just supposed to “be there for him,” more like a mom than a wife. What man in his right mind cries to his WIFE that another woman didn’t accept his advances? What kind of a man texts and flirts openly in front of his wife as if to torment her? This is deeply twisted and emotionally abusive. Take it from me, an emotional affair IS an affair. It is only because she rejected him that they did not have sex. Your husband was willing and anxious to have a PA with the OW. He courted her and saw her behind your back. This is a betrayal, and he has NO remorse. Dump him ASAP and listen to Chump Lady. You deserve so much better.
I am also concerned that your son was furious with you BOTH. I know that kids get disgusted with the whole situation, but I hope that your son realizes that you were the victim here. The fury should be mainly directed at your husband. Do not manage your husband’s relationship with your son or shelter him from what is happening. Allow your husband to answer for himself about why he still goes on dates and flirts when he is married.
Best of luck to you. Chump Nation has your back.
I am also sorry that you are dealing with such a jackass. I also know–all too well–how kids can mad at the sane parent in these situations. Unfortunately, you can expect it to continue for some time. Kids get angry at the parent that it is safe to get angry at. The sane parent often takes a lot of crud from kids, especially tweens and teenagers, because they know (even if they can’t articulate it) that getting mad at the wretched parent will have bad consequences (like rejection and other forms of emotional abuse), so kids take their emotions out on the parent who loves them even when they are being or mean or rude or immature or downright hateful.
You should probably look for a good counselor to help you and your child along with a lawyer.
This is a prime example of the patriarchy, IMO.
Wait. What?
It won’t change. I got she’s just a friend for years. Yup a work-school friend who he texted for hours every day, spent 14 hours a day or more with and who found her way into our house, my kid’s lives and my husband’s heart.
The anger and abuse and betrayal was huge – but it was all my fault too.
Sounds so familiar doesn ‘t it
My stbx is still in a very tight relationship with MOW, but she has to share him with porn and a few other women he is now chasing after.
I finally chose me and separated about 2.5 years ago. Divorce is pending.
He is still the same flaming turd – never changed one bit.
Your H has shown you who he is. A cheater, a man child and a fucking abusive lying piece of shit.
The disrespect and abuse is huge and won’t get any better.
Please listen to chump lady. Gain your freedom from this giant jackass and see how much better life can be on the other side 🙂
Does your son know that your husband was trying to date a woman and came back to you because she rejected him? That he is still seeing her?
What does your church say?
Is your son getting any counseling?
I’m asking about these things, but the bottom line is that your husband is trying to cheat on you and the only reason he hasn’t is that the other woman didn’t want him. He needs to stop trying to cheat. You’re not being unreasonable.
Dear lovely lady.
You deserve soooo much better than this. His hideous, insensitive, entitled, devaluing behaviour must stop! He is trampling all over you, out “dating” another woman, while he is married to you. What are you doing while he is having a marvelous time? Probably washing his stinky socks, cleaning up after him and keeping the home fires burning for when he decides to return. Please value yourself enough to get rid of him.
He is not worth any more of your care or attention. Supportive thoughts headed your way!
It’s time to let him go. This will continue and get worse.
My ex was definitely seeing someone and his behavior with me got worse and more abusive until it became physical abuse.
I’m not saying this will happen to you but as CL already said what he is doing is abuse.
I have a young son and I know the best thing I did was leave my husband. Unfortunately he witnessed the physical abuse. Any form of it, emotional, verbal and physical is not acceptable not only to you but also your son.
Get a lawyer as soon as you can. I know you are going through emotional torment. But this is something you can stop so you and your son can have a good and productive life. We are here to support you!
Please take a moment and read CL’s post https://www.chumplady.com/2013/07/reconciliation-and-entitlement/
It will explain why he is still with you and why he thinks it is okay to pursue another woman right in front of you. You deserve better….
The fact that the OW texts him and socializes with him means she has NOT rejected him, sounds like a bit of a kinky relationship, maybe they both get off on the dynamics.
Get a lawyer and toss him out.
He’s the Titanic and he’s taking you down with him! When the ship sinks he’ll get in the lifeboat and leave you to drown. Put on you life jacket and get the fuck off that boat!
Dear Lady, in my job I dealt with tons on kids and one thing I know…..your son, at 14, is handling some serious stuff that has nothing to do with you and the wart hog you are married to. There is scientific proof that a boy his age is less mature than when he was five. It has to do with hormones and trying to establish his real independence from his parents. You have no control over those things. What you do have control over is the truth. Just tell him that his father fell in love with another woman and the two of you are going to separate, probably permanently. Your son is a cake eater too just based on his age. He wants a firm foundation from which to launch his grown up life. Right now he knows he is standing on quick sand. The best thing you can give him is you living an authentic life. He needs a good role model which should be his father but you get the job by default.
I remind you of that paragon of virtue, Mark Sanford, who asked his wife permission to see the OW. He is probably first cousin to your wart hog. He has now dumped the other woman and is still blaming his ex-wife years after the divorce. Your house of cards has fallen. Just get the lawyer, get loose ends tied up, be there for your son and let the rest of the craziness go live with your hopefully soon to be ex. I hate divorce but what I hate worse is a toxic household that poisons everybody.
Let go-your comment about her being a Wart Hog seems unnecessarily mean….to the Wart Hog!!
I tried to come up with an animal as ugly on the outside as her husband is on the inside. I do apologize to all wart hogs.
That should read “her husband”
Their bumping uglies!
He’s gas lighting you.
Someone busted them so he came up with the rejection story. “Don’t you remember? I told you she rejected me!”
Or-
“Why would I tell you we were meeting for drinks if I was fucking her?”
Try this…
Tell him someone from work called and said you two are having sex and see what he says. You’ll see stupid wrote all over his face!
It’s crazy how once you figure it out, you can see right through the games and bullcrap… I had the same thought, co-worker, worried he’s about to get caught so he spills his version of the story, then he gets back into the house and now he has both of them doing the pick me dance. If she wanted no part of him, she wouldn’t be flirting and going to lunch. That’s inconsistent with the ‘not gonna happen’ narrative.
“That’s inconsistent with the ‘not gonna happen’ narrative.”
Not necessarily. I bet that there are a lot of people out there — usually woman– who think that they can be just friends with a man.
I’m one of those people – except I KNOW it is perfectly possible to be just friends with someone of the opposite sex. I have, and have had, many, many male friends in my life and loved them for their friendship. I’ve celebrated their romantic relationships and been glad to be able to call their partners my friends too. I’ve never had any worries about my partners having female friends either. My neighbour is a fellow musician and we’ve attended many a jam night together, without his wife. It’s not her bag. I adore them both and feel blessed to have them both in my life. I know she has nothing to worry about with me and her husband, and I’m sure she feels the same way. They were good friends while I was with ‘The Great I Am’ and they are still good friends even though I am on my own.
When ‘The Great I Am’ was busted he tried to claim ‘friendship’ but I’d barely met her (once – at our wedding, ironically) and as far as I was concerned that was the boundary crossed. How could he be so ‘close’ (up to 30 texts a day) to someone I, the love of his life, didn’t even know, had never heard him talk of. No. It’s possible for people to be friends with the opposite sex, but there is a definite difference when it’s an emotional affair.
…mind you (sorry meant to add) … I agree with Raging about the inconsistency thing …. the guy played his hand, she knows he’s hoping for more than friendship, you can’t be going for cosy drinksfor two, lunches and flirting when you know the other person is wanting more from you than you want to give … and that’s just with someone who is a free agent! If you know this man is married as well! ,,,,, nah, she’s a cheater too – legs open or closed! I think Lady called her right – she’s perfectly happy having the cake (being worshipped) for free (no investment from her) and she’s fooling herself that she’s doing nothing wrong flirting with a married man because she hasn’t spread her legs.
How much longer are you willing to participate in a 3 person marriage? Is this the example you want to set to your son?
So true. Children identify with their same-sex parent more, but are also sensitive to second-hand consequences. Unless you want your son to grow up as an insensitive, narcissistic, misogynistic clod, give your husband some consequences (& the boot).
Your situation sounds like hell. I too have been in degrading situations like yours. My stbx would flirt with women in front of me and my son all the time. I felt sick and terrible inside, yet also embarrassed with how I felt, because I somehow internalized that I should understand that this flirting is human behavior and I needed to accept it.
I knew it was abuse, but it took learning about an affair to leave. You know that it is abuse too, please do not regret not listening to yourself sooner.
A friend recently told me that her husband told her that he was flirting and hanging out with a secretary at work, yet she felt petty for being upset about it. She discussed how she internalized messages that flirting is healthy and human. It isn’t. I don’t have to flirt in front of a spouse or significant other to be human, on the contrary, I refrain so as not to hurt others and take them for granted.
It is not humane or characteristically human to tell your spouse that they mean so little to you show them that you are into and attracted to someone else, and are compelled to be with them. Your husband is saying that to you. This is a disaster, yet you tolerate it to the point that he threatens you that he won’t give you the pleasure of hearing about how into this women he is (!?) I understand that you are writing with scorn and are trying to solve this. But his treatment of you is really demented as human relationships go. Standing for it does not make you strong, it corrodes you inside.
Take a stand for yourself. Is this is the kind of treatment you want in your life? Why are you tolerating this? Your husband sounds like a huge cheating crybaby poor-me you-have-done-me-wrong-by-initially- rejecting me in high school asshole. He is not changing. You have to change, or live the rest of your life with this treatment.
You will need to make the better decisions for you and your child. You get to set the tone of your life. Your child will learn from your example. You wrote this letter because you want help. You are right. He is abusive, wrong, mean, disrespectful and cheating. Run with this information and see a lawyer. As Tracy and others detail, do not tell him until your plan is well into place. He is busy with his love interest at work. He is not paying attention to you at all. Now is your chance to line up your ducks. You are lucky.
Flirting is not “healthy and human” unless it is part of a legitimate courtship ritual. In the workplace, it is disruptive to the work environment, to those who witness it and wonder about how the relationship will impact their situation, and to productivity. A man who is flirting with a secretary may be creating an impression of favoritism, where this secretary is perceived as having special privilege and protection, or an impression of exploitation, where senior people are entitled to exploit those who work for them.
And where in the world did this idea come from that it is “petty” or “jealous” to expect a person to live up to marriage vows or relationship commitments? If your partner is cheating, either physically or emotionally, you damn well better be jealous–and angry. Those emotions are meant to protect us from danger.
Flirtatious behavior in my workplace can land a person in HR and out the door faster than you can say “EEOC.” That’s not to say that there aren’t workplace affairs, but rather that there’s a huge consequence should things go south–or the people working around the Twu Wuv start to feel as if the environment is too uncomfortable for them to work in.
Lady, I am seething with outrage about your husband’s behavior. Don’t look back. See a lawyer TODAY. His behavior and entitled attitude is asinine and gross.
You and your son deserve so much better.
In spite of his horrible behavior part of you still loves him and hopes that he will change back to the man you married. If the man who was your husband did not come to his senses during your separation then he is gone forever. His abuse will escalate until your soul is crushed or you finally have enough and divorce him. The man who was your husband is gone – replaced by a selfish cheating POS , protect yourself and your son from any further abuse and divorce him.
I think the real breakthrough usually comes when you finally realize that this is who they were all along (unless they have a brain tumor or something), and that who you wanted to think they were was partly them acting and partly you wanting to believe something that wasn’t so.
I seriously can’t believe you took him back, Lady. I don’t think it matters whether he is having a physical affair or not, although it is far more likely they are involved than not, given that his abusive behavior is escalating. Why would you tolerate this abuse? What is the point of saving a marriage to someone who tells you he has never been loved (utter bullshit) and is dating someone else while holding on to the social and legal protections of marriage?
The fact that your son is upset is sad but not germane to the issue. He is a kid. He is not the primary person putting up with emotional and likely physical infidelity. When his wife starts dating some day, he can make the call as to whether that is OK. But I’m thinking if he has a girlfriend now, or in a year or two, and she cheats, he will not think that’s OK–unless you teach him to take that sort of abuse by tolerating it yourself.
Lawyer up. Get a private investigator to find out what else is going on. Because those people who say “You aren’t the boss of me” are never telling you the whole truth.
And get your legal and financial ducks in a row before he divorces YOU. I know a woman whose husband was madly in love with a coworker, who was divorcing her husband. She ended up divorced. The husband got dumped by the OW. Everyone’s life is ruined but the OW’s. She’s rolling along and got another guy to buy her a house. So don’t wait till you find out the OW wants to get married to your husband. Good luck and let us know what happens.
“his horrible behavior part of you still loves him and hopes that he will change back to the man you married.”
UH….SORRY, never gonna happen. Once a cheating spouse can rationalize that crossing ANY emotional or physical boundary with someone who is not their committed partner, they will do it again and again.
I’m sorry for the death of your marriage. Your spouse is an ass. Teach your son how others should be treated in serious, committed relationships.
This^^^. The boundary was crossed. You, your feelings, your commitment weren’t considered. IMHO, he’s exhibiting passive aggressive oppositional defiant narc rage against you with the BS excuse that you rejected him on high school. He wants to blame you for his unhappy because he’s sick like that.
Married for 36 years to my highschool “devil heart”. Cooked, cleaned, worked outside the home while rearing 3 kids basically by m’self for the farmer who made hay whether or not the sun shone if you get my drift.
Turned into an “ag-businessman”, made a ton of $$ and left for a married sorority mean girl. His excuse? “you didn’t go to the senior prom with me.” Whoa Nelly…
That’s a good one, Nain. Something you didn’t do 36 years ago as opposed to something you did do.
When I went through the historical revision phase with the ex, I finally said, “Well, why did you ask me to marry you then?” Which shut him up pretty fast.
i got a similar load of crap sent my way when I went through revisionist history with my ex too. He told me “I never chased him” when we first got together. He did the chasing and he wasn’t used to that and that means I must’ve never loved him.
Now he believes that you’re better off being with someone who “chases you” because that means they love you more. I guess it must’ve been a huge ego boost that the married other skanktress “chased him”. If she wasn’t 4 years older than him and hideously ugly, I’d think that she’d do it to him too. I just don’t know who else would go for that piece of low hanging fruit!!
Should add to paragraph2 ” is ok”
This story has a familiar ring to it. My ex told me his co-worker was JUST A FRIEND though, “if we were both single I could see us dating.” But you’re both married! He told me they just flirt, flirting is natural (funny, my now BF has never made me feel uncomfortable with how he acts toward other women,) they are JUST FRIENDS, I was being unreasonable getting upset, her husband was being unreasonable getting upset, their relationship is so peaceful, and her husband is a horrible douchebag and I’m controlling for not wanting him to run around with a much young married female co-worker and long list of reasons why I suck. But he maintained they were JUST FRIENDS. Their co-workers are just gossiping about nothing! Her husband accusing them of having an affair was just jealous. I finally left after I told him their relationship was making me very uncomfortable and I didn’t want him going anywhere alone with her, he agreed, and then immediately went out with her for the day, tried to lie about it, and then finally admitted it. He still maintained that I was wrong, they are JUST FRIENDS, but now he doesn’t know what he wants. About a month of back and forth about divorce and cake eating, and he admits, OK fine, they’re having a full-fledged affair. But he still wants to work it out! Oh, except she’s getting divorced too and they’re moving in together. But they’re just roommates! They have no where else to live, they’ve both been kicked out, they have to get an apartment together! But they’re JUST FRIENDS.
They were never JUST FRIENDS. And your guy is NOT JUST FRIENDS with his OW. Even if they are not physical (which I don’t believe for a second) their relationship has already crossed so many boundaries, that it is inappropriate. He does not need to meet her for drinks after work. He does not need to be texting her all the time. And him getting furious (your word) and telling you he wasn’t going to give you the COURTESY of telling you when he goes out with her? Speaks at loud death metal blasting volumes. That red flag just covered the earth it’s so big.
Technically, he’s cheating. He has an inappropriate relationship with another woman. That’s cheating.
Oh, and I can’t believe he’s saying he has trouble with “forgiving” you for some rejection in high school after a 20 year marriage after everything he’s done. Please tell me you’re already seeing an attorney.
You nailed it, Kira. No one spends that much time and energy for a “friend”… and the sobbing part is a huge red flag! Like so many here, I heard the whole friend bullshit excuse and it was a complete and total lie. At one point during a far too long gaslighting phase, I asked him why he didn’t treat his slut like he did the rest of our female friends (of which we had many). Dead silence. It nearly drove me crazy. In fact, I was strangely relieved when my worst fears were confirmed. I wasn’t the crazy, suspicious bitch my X painted me to be. I was right! He WAS a lying, cheating bastard! No one should tolerate this kind of behavior. Time to lawyer up!
Violet – ‘In fact, I was strangely relieved when my worst fears were confirmed. I wasn’t the crazy, suspicious bitch my X painted me to be’. -Oh, I hear you sister!!!! x
Wow, even the Reconciliation Industrial Complex sez the cheater must cut off all contact with the affair partner. He refused, you should refuse to used any longer.
Rule #1: Liars, they lie. Rule #2: anything a cheater volunteers is the tip of the ice burg, he either has gotten laid by now or still believes he will (see rule#1). Rule #3: We’re just friends is always bullshit, if that were the case he would not have hidden the relationship, he would not need to lie to you. Rule #4: Cheaters always blame their spouse for what they are doing. Rewriting your marital history, that’s classic.
You took him back even though he insisted on being around her, you taught him a lesson; you taught him he could disrespect you and you would take it. He went above and beyond, crying in your lap because he couldn’t get laid and blaming you for his infidelity, wow. Not good. Your first call was the right one, separation, I wish you’d divorced him, sounds like you realize now that is your only option. And do NOT go to marriage counseling, I can almost guarantee he’ll want to when you tell him it’s over. Your husband wants to be married and act single. You are nothing more than a security blanket for him. If you should make a male friend, I also guarantee he would lose his shit over that.
Get a PI if you want the truth and especially if you live in fault state. Bottom line, Are you happy living with a man you cannot trust? Who blames you for his shitty behavior? Who says he never felt your love?
Datdamwuf, your rules are exactly correct. I copied them into my notes that contain some of my other favorite quotes from this site! They are all so predictable. It is like they all attend Cheater Academy and join the same frat: Alpha Alpha Alpha
Dat…I do not think for a second that your “rules” are just “rules”, they are pretty much LAWS, like the law of gravity…cheaters ALL do the. Exact. Same. Thing!!!
“Technically, you haven’t stuffed his balls down his throat yet.”
CL, I just love you and your language girl!!
Now, Lady, you are not just a chump, you are A DOORMAT to this loser. How convenient for him, since she doesn’t want his ass, (but boy she accepts the gifts, drinks, dinners very willingly doesn’t she?) that there is no reason to separate or divorce? WTF! Geez why should he, while he has you to bring a paycheck, cook his food, do his fucking laundry so he can wear clean clothes for her you know, clean, oh and I am sure he still have sex with you on regular bases and then —he gets to go on dates and BUYS her gifts while you stay at home????— HE IS USING YOU!! He doesn’t love you, as you can tell from his actions he doesn’t respect or even value you or your relationship whatsoever. Where is your head?? Did he mindfucked you that bad or you have no self-esteem, no self-worth, no self-respect you are putting up with this shit?!?! Good grief Lady, be a good role model for your son and get rid of his ass, throw him out so he can cook his own food, do his own laundry, pay all his bills by himself and he can go on as many dates as he want to his heart’s content!
Lawyer up, file and like CL says, “stuff his balls down his throat.”
PS: Do you know what will happen if she gives it up, agrees to a relationship with him and later not be ok that he is still married to you? He will discard you like a yesterday’s trash without any hesitation and will fuck you over more than one way, specially financially!! WAKE UP!!!
A married cousin of mine “dated” a female colleague for 3 years. Perhaps it is still ongoing, I don’t know, because I exited that relationship, when he claimed his “dating relationship” stabilized his marriage. He said he was happier now than ever before, no longer bickering with his wife, and that the kids were now the recipients of a much more pleasant atmosphere at home. He was quite pleased with himself that he was successfully “managing” his home life along side his dating life. When I commented that he was having an emotional affair, and was cheating on his wife, he was outraged, saying his colleague was “just his friend”. I remarked that in that “friendship” he had become quite close with the colleague’s children. Then, I asked him if he had introduced his own children to the dating colleague because after all she was such a good friend. No comment. I guess she was his secret dating friend.
Dear lady, get out and run !!! Clearly you’re just an appliance to him, an accesories to his pathetic little me me me world. This guy told you and by his behavior keeps telling you in your face that he doesn’t care and respect you. The way that he acts, putting you as a safety net and belittle your feelings in order to be with her, can you accept that ? Do you accept to be second best ? Is that enough for you ?
It sucks to be married to someone like this but you can free yourself from him, being single is better than emotionally tortured by someone who is supposed to have your back, at least you are free from the daily mindfuck.
You deserve so much better !!
As painful as it is, I would file for divorce. I went through something very similar. I saw my lawyer but couldn’t legally put him out of the house and reconciled. The emotional abuse started up again almost immediately and escalated. He wouldn’t do counselling and wouldn’t admit to any wrong doing. It was ALL my fault. Finally walked out on me and filed almost immediately. Though I counter filed under grounds of emotional abuse, oh how I wish I had filed first for the sake of my own self respect. I forgive myself for not doing so as I was an emotional basket case at the time and suicidal, but I think it would lesson a little of the pain I feel now if I had filed first. if you are emotionally strong enough, please file for your own sake.
Having flashbacks of my own cheater-ex. He is emotionally abusing you. Run.
Your story sounds eerily familiar. Extremely likely that, if you stay, things will get much, much worse. One Cheater I know, a few minutes after revealing the emotional/physical affair to Spouse, cried on Spouse’s shoulder about the demise of the relationship with OW. Spouse, drinking the reconciliation industry Kool-Aid, tried to reconcile with cheater. Cheater then proceeded to destroy spouse emotionally, financially, professionally–generally through the legal system. Through illegal means, Cheater tried to deny Spouse access to their children and their (joint) assets. Is this the future you want?
Adultery is in his heart. He has already declared to you that he would have sex outside your marriage given the opportunity, and he continues to seek that opportunity flagrantly. Also, he is still cheating even if he hasn’t consummated the relationship. Taking a woman on romantic day trips as opposed to one’s wife is still cheating. It is a healthy boundary to say dating other women is not acceptable in a marriage. I seem to remember that most marriage vows include the lie: “forsaking all others.” Dating other people is not “forsaking all others.”
Listen to CL! The healthy thing is not to accept this abuse. He IS cheating! If what he is doing with the OW is unacceptable to you (as you claim it is), then it is cheating. Keep that in mind. Enforce your healthy boundaries.
I agree with you and everyone else that an emotional affair IS cheating. But as a recovering Chump, I have to challenge the belief that it is not a sexual affair. Adult men and women RARELY “just have emotional affairs”.
Upon discovery, my X swore it was “only” an emtional affair. I of course believed him because a) i never thought he would do that and b) i did not think he would lie to me. after 26 years together, i thought i knew him as a good and honest man. i was verrry chumpy. i had also just gone through breast cancer treatment and he had been very reassuring through it all. or i believed he was…
I learned of the sexual part of affair 1.5 months into “reconcilliation” when the OW was having a fit he tried to end it. She told him she would tell me if he didn’t. So he did. i could not find a place in my brain to file that information. she made other awful threats during that time. she really scared me.
After all the awful information came out, i did agree to try and reconcile on the condition that he stop the affair. he did not.
Agreed, Chumpette. I am just taking Lady at her word. One doesn’t have to prove an sexual affair to know this is cheating and unacceptable.
I went through much of the same experience. The relationship is sexual, not that it should matter. This asshole’s complete lack of respect should be enough to end this sham. Emotional abuse is just as bad as “having sex.” Lady should get out NOW!
***marriage vows include the LINE****
Dear Perfectly Reasonable Lady,
I’m sorry your husband is doing this. He’s out of touch with reality and is so titillated by his emotional affair that he doesn’t even remember what marriage to you should mean. As someone else stated, he’s treating you more like a mother than a spouse.
An emotional affair is an affair and is unacceptable. It puts him in a fantasy land of what life would be like with her, all the while just ignoring his real at home life. I guarantee you that if she said yes right now he’d bed her instantly (if he hasn’t already). And if he gets the chance, he’d move out to be with her. He’s utterly enamored with her, probably for playing hard to get.
Which makes you second best, or even worse.
For him to claim they are just friends right now is also pure fantasy. He’s still holding on to hope that she’ll change her mind while barely keeping one foot in the door of his marriage to you. In my eyes he’s already discarded you.
I don’t say that to hurt you, but to shake you to your senses. You’ll find dozens and dozens of men and women on this site who have been discarded. Some of our cheaters make it obvious, and some of our cheaters torture us longer with lies, but the fact is they don’t want us or love us.
Take the advice of CL and the wise commenters here. It’s time to protect yourself, do some investigating and get your ducks in a row before he knows what’s up. Don’t threaten him with those things or he’ll take his affair underground and he’ll become more abusive of you. These cheaters are pretty much all the same and aren’t difficult to predict.
Somehow over the years you’ve become accustomed to accepting this half marriage. It probably took many years to come on. And you probably figured it wasn’t great, but could be worse, and thought you could endure it. You can’t. He won’t let you anyway. It’s time to make moves to free yourself from him.
We’ll be here for you whenever you need us. There’s a forum section that a lot of us use to keep in touch. Feel free to join us there. Good luck.
I hope Lady sees this post. I tried writing to her at the account she wrote me from, but the email bounced several times. 🙁
CL–If she knew where/how to contact you, she knows how to look up the webpage. We can just hope that she has the courage to access your blog again.
Oh No CL – I hope she sees this post too. I’d hate to think she feels she’s alone with this nightmare. Have you tried right clicking on the original mail from her and choosing ‘view message source’ the originating email address will be in there – could just be a typo error she made (I use view message source whenever I’m a bit suspicious of an email). It’s probably not as simple as that, but sometimes it is the obvious!
Lady, run run run. OMG, he is having a physical and emotional affair, and anyhow it does not matter. He is abusing you horribly. Have I mentioned please RUN. It is like watching a scary movie, hearing the terrifying music, knowing this is going to end so very badly for you (he will continue to torment and abuse you until he has wrung you dry and you are destroyed). If I could reach through this computer and carry you to a lawyer’s office I would do it. Make a plan and get out, you are living in the 7th circle of hell right now.
Strength and (((hugs))) to you.
Not much to add to what Chump Nation has already said.
Lady, this gut never loved you or your son. I appreciate that is a 2×4 to the back of the head, but a needed one.
Get out of this marriage. Your life and your son’s depend on it.
Oh my god.
Your husband is STUPID!
I wish I could wave my hand in front of his face and ask if any one is home. Did he forget who he is talking to?
Honey you are merely an object to him. I don’t even know where to start on this. He isn’t worth the thoughts . trust me on that.
Lady, if you were in my town, I’d make you a cup of tea and give you a hug. I am so sorry for what you are living with. I don’t know you and I don’t know him, but I do know two things: 1) he sucks; and 2) you deserve better.
It is up to you when “better” starts happening. It is not easy, but I encourage sooner rather than later. One of the things that helped me was trying to
be objective and just look at the facts of all the harms he inflicted on me. Get very practical about self-protection from this abusive, unacceptable behavior. Preserve your mental and physical health (living in this situation will surely take a toll on both). Protect yourself financially. Take care of you and your son. Starting now would be good.
Lady, I am also going to second everything that has been said here. Your husband is DEEPLY involved in an affair. There doesn’t have to physical contact to correctly classify this behavior as an affair. He has dedicated his emotional energy, his time and YOUR money to be involved with a woman that is not his wife – that is an affair!
I gave my now ExH (divorced this past summer – Thank You Chump Nation!) two years to stop his online affairs and his blatant disregard and horrendous disrespect. He also conducted this behavior right in front of me, like I was too stupid to know what he was doing. Even his IC said you to him, “Wow, what a big FU that was to your wife.”
I finally had to realize that he was being who he wanted to be. No more sparkles – he wanted to be a selfish, lying, cheating, bullying, manipulative, self-entitled A-hole. It didn’t matter that we had been married over 30 years. He was CHOOSING to be a person that could look me straight in the face and cheat and lie to me every day.
Lady, I finally realized that if he wouldn’t respect me that I had to respect myself. I had to acknowledge that if I choose to stay in the marriage that I would have to accept that he would betray me and lie to me every day.
No thanks! I deserve better than that and so do you Lady.
Our two adult children were devastated. But my oldest also told me how proud he was of me. Lady, you need to model to your son that you have the right to respect, care and consideration. You have the right to be a priority.
I want to mention something very important that hasn’t been said yet. You say that your husband has been courting this woman with gifts and day trips. He has been spending YOUR money on his OW. He says this has only been going on for months, but is that the truth? You already know he is a liar. The money he is spending on his OW is half yours.
My Ex secretly drained half of our life savings from the bank before I caught him. If I hadn’t caught him when I did, he would have spent every penny we owned in the world and then probably started running up the credit cards.
You need to quietly and quickly get your ducks in a row. Protect yourself and your son. DO NOT let him know what you are doing. Get copies of your bank statements, credit card statements, copies of your past tax returns, retirement account statements, copies of his pay stubs. Get the usernames and passwords to any accounts. You get the idea. This might seem harsh and extreme, but believe me, you need to protect yourself.
Lady, this is hard, excruciating stuff, but Chump Nation has your back.
To have sunk this low and to have accepted this abuse from this NPD/ASPD douchebag, I expect this woman has been subject to both overt and insidious abuse for a long time.
If any of us get this treatment from the outset, we , probably, would have run.
But these abusers ramp up the abuse gradually and erode one’s sense of worth over time.
This guy is a monster. You need to run from him and protect yourself and your son.
My XW was much like this. Looking back, I am amazed I stayed and tolerated it so long.
Yup, Arnold–it’s like the old parable of the frog in hot water. Put a frog in hot water, it jumps out. But put it in room temperature water and turn up the heat slowly–>cooked frog.
I have heard that deal about the frog, Jayne, and while it rings true( although in reality scientific studies show a frog will try to escape ) , I think that abusers also know that with kids, mortgages, commitment, vows etc, they can ramp it up and , even if you feel like escaping, you are bound by the aforementioned.
This is, often, mistaken for co-dependence it it is not.
I had the misfortune once of getting involved with a narcissist, and I don’t often read anything that leads me to the forgone conclusion that someone’s cheater is one. BUT, that he’s holding a grudge for 20 years over a stupid teenage slight; and that he is flaunting the OW in front of her (payback and pick-me) seriously leads me to believe that he is. Nobody else pulls shit that sick.
Yeah, I also look back in amazement at what I put up with for 20 years. The funny thing is that once I got strong enough to get the hell out, my ex rewrote history to claim that I was the one who bullied and treated HIM horribly.
Are they all the same? Mine could rewrite something he said 5 minutes before… His best is not wanting custody of our daughter. When he left, he said to me. “You take custody of our daughter, I don’t want any… My job has me traveling too much.” Then after about a month, he comes up with the ‘real’ reason… He wants our daughter to come to him, when it works for her… he thinks that for a child of divorce, the scheduled visitation is just horrible. Yeah right… well surprise surprise for about 3.5 years, she didn’t make much of an effort to see him. Poor sausage was crushed… Eventually, I think the olders guilted her in to staying the night with him, every now and again. Poor sausage feels like a really great dad now and she comes home a depressed and anxious little ball of whimpiness. Thank god she is close to graduating HS… then all of this shit is over. She and see him at schoompies for TDay every year or two surrounded by her olders and they can all be like little musk ox, circled up for protection and to make fun of poor schmoopie… who is a vapor.
My ex did the same thing, after physically attacking me even. Then he started claiming I abused him for years, that’s when my friends woke up and stopped being “neutral”, some lies they refused to believe.
“So, am I the one being a jerk about this? Technically he hasn’t cheated.”
This isn’t the first shit sandwich you’ve been swallowing for the past 20 years. This one is a double decker shit sandwich without ketchup, mustard, onions, or pickles on the side that made the previous one’s slightly more palatable. This time get in front of it and don’t be afraid of that little voice inside screaming NO NO NO! That voice that’s been trying to get you to see things just as they are. That voice is not trying to condemn you or put you down. That voice is the one of self love, self respect, and truth. I wasn’t married to the cheater but Chump Nation said it didn’t matter. Chump Nation gave me the courage to take the right action. It hurt but not near as bad as the hurt he was putting on me. I can honestly say today I feel so much better about myself knowing I handed that shit sandwich back to him and said, “Nope, not this time, sucka!”.
Oh….he’s cheated, if not with bimbo princess, then somebody.
I’m so sorry to read what all you have been enduring. The emotional abuse he feels entitled to direct at you is phenomenally awful and surely is enough to justify an immediate divorce.
I join the others here who don’t buy his story about her rejection. I do not buy it.
He has devalued you to such a low level that he imagines you are simply his to abuse. BAD EXAMPLE to your son. Your son might even feel frustration with you for allowing that, you know.
But your husband’s entitlement is so huge that it has affected his mind. His perception of you is deranged. But don’t use that as a reason to stay….Use it as a reason to flee.
I don’t believe for a minute that he hasn’t slept with her.
But the emotional abuse alone is enough. He’s a train wreck and you cannot stop the train. Get off it.
Dear Reasonable Lady,
I am so sorry you are being disrespected this way. I’m guessing that 20 years of marriage to a man like this has conditioned you to tolerate this level of disrespect and abuse, but from an outside point of view, it’s unacceptable. I honk you know this, but you are waiting for him to wake up and be a decent man. When you allow him to treat your his way, you reinforce his belief that it’s ok. You set the standards for his others treat you. Raise the bar.
Married partners don’t maintain relationships with “special friends” that they cannot introduce to their spouse or have around their family. As his WIFE, you are his special friend! I would be inclined to call her husband and invite them both over for dinner but I’m a bitch like that.
MmmHmm, that’s hilarious. Invite the OW and her hubby for dinner then calmly bring up the subject of the affair…”soooo, what are we all going to do about this situation.”..then stand up and capsize the dinner table like Lou Ferrigno might and go ape-shit on them! I so wish I’d done something non violent but dramatic rather than just doing a weepy pick me dance.
No seriously, while divorce and giving up on a marriage looks scary, it will be liberating and you WILL be happy. Just one determined step at a time.
I should add, I called my ex husbands OW and invited her to church with us. Naturally, she declined. She “didn’t know when she would have time.” But I enjoyed asking. He was quite upset. 🙂
Excellent MmmHmm ! 😀 (bet she shit a brick)! Urgh – sorry to be so crude – but still, bet she did, anyway 😀
They start disrespecting you pretty quick once you start taking crap from them, and that disrespect leads to…..giving you more crap. Like a dog they love to kick because it doesn’t run away or bite back, the cringing acquiescence actually brings out the worst in them. There is literally nothing you can do to break this cycle. The man you thought you knew either never existed or is long gone and isn’t coming back. It’s already over but the legal formalities.
Go see a lawyer yesterday.
Yeah, I hate to agree with you that there’s no going back, but I do. She needs to move on.
This one is so extreme, it almost makes me wonder if Chump Lady is being punked. If it is serious, then the only question is when the writer will file for divorce, there is certainly no other option here.
I think the letter is legit…sounds like he’s a garden variety narcissist. Extreme, but par for the course.
Well, my ex cried on my shoulder and at first I thought he was telling me it was because he was hurting the OW by cutting off contact, and she needed him. But as he talked more it became clear the pain was all about him. What he really said is that it hurt HIM so bad not to have contact. So I don’t see it as a stretch that her husband would cry in her lap bemoaning his pain, it’s all about him…
I agree. These disordered types are so lacking in empathy, that they do not even realize how absurd they are being when they do things like this crying in the lap deal.
My first XW started crying when I was able to move out of the run down studio apartment I was forced to rent for a while and bought a nice place. It symbolized to her that I had moved on and did not need her.
She could not see how her cheating on me and our kids for years, was the real abandonment.
Even if CL was punked re: this letter, useful information comes out in CL’s response, and in the forum for other people to use. Keep the advice coming, fellow chumps…
Oh No GIO – do you really think? I guess it’s possible (cor, we all know there’s a surfeit of loonies out there) and the worry is CL not being able to email back – but I really hope you’re wrong – I haven’t laughed at the insanity of a cluster B so heartily for ages!
Dear Lovely Lady, (thanks savannahpaige – much more appropriate 🙂 ).
First of all, please drop the handle – unless you really think not covering yourself in coconut matting and lying down in front of his boots is evidence of an insensitive jerk! Grrr (at him for even planting that idea in your head)!
Second of all, believe everyone here – this – and I hesitate to use the word – man -is a despicable, disgusting (oh please just look up every word in the thesaurus under SHITHEAD – I could be here all night and still not cover it)! YOU DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER – you really do. I don’t know you, but Christ girl, your heart is still so big you took the fucker back and tried again, AND are prepared to look to yourself for the disordered cause! Ruddy Hell! You’re beautiful and he is pissing all over you!!! (OK – deep breaths Jayne, deep breaths – go to your happy place).
Third of all – I have to tell you – I loved, loved, loved you found your humour to describe this nightmare – not only are you a beautiful person but you are bright. You know you are bright enough to recognise the spoiled brat for who he is, be bright enough now to keep laughing at him – laugh hard girl, he is ludicrous and I swear to you once he’s bad history you are going to wonder what the fuck you wasted your time on him for.
Fourth of all – his behaviour is beyond contemptible (OK – back to your happy place, Jayne) but I have to tell you I laughed and laughed 😀 Holding grudges from High School – Oh. My. Heavens – hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha – Oh God Please – make it stop!!!!!!!
Lovely Lady, I hope so much you get to read these posts – please take your power back from the spoiled toddler masquerading as your husband and make sure you glue that coconut matting firmly onto his face!!!
Keep us posted
Hugs, hugs and more hugs,
Jayne x
“Wasn’t great, but could be worse,” – Yes that was my thinking which only meant… it got worse. I had a marital separation thinking that it would give time, space etc to enable him to deal with his ‘issues’. We never lived together again and he used the time and space for- yes you got it, not dealing with his issues and not being faithful. After the OW D-Day he even laughed at me for believing that he was ever going to try for proper reconciliation. THEN I left him for good and got a divorce. And now it can’t get worse but only better and after a year I am very relieved to not be trying to make this relationship work anymore.
Comment should be after Moving Liquid’s….
That’s a hard truth to face. I hope she listens.
Lady’s husband has probably secretly commandeered her email to prevent her from getting Good Advice (which is likely why CL’s messages to her bounce back).
If she sees this:
Lady, you separated but returned to the worm so now you have a Zombie marriage. It is dead, dead, dead but you are hoping it will become Undead. So sorry, not gonna happen.
Your worm is setting up an Open Marriage but he really wouldn’t be ok with YOU dating, so you can see where this is going.
If you are a SAHM this is going to be even harder for you, but it is TIME. Do not wait till kid is out of high school, till affair becomes physical (and I agree it probably already is), till Jupiter aligns with Mars, or till you have been silently and unknowingly trussed into a legal noose. If worm wants to date, leave him and let him.
Someone who blames you for everything will never cherish you.
Good luck.
Wow! So many great thoughts here. . .you have a zombie of a marriage,wait till Jupiter aligns with Mars, and “Someone who blames you for everything will not cherish you”. I needed this today!
My cheater pulled a similar thing with a woman (not his actual affair partner)–nothing happened, so having private coffees, and phone conversations, and a drink together was totally kosher.
Bullsh*t. Bail; your husband has the emotional intelligence, empathy, and self-control of an alpha-male seal during mating period. And tell your son WHY you split–there is NO WAY you should bear his anger at any subsequent divorce for being a trusting human being (and a chump).
And, as my therapist says, “we train people how to treat us.” Time for hubby to have a little electric shock (metaphorically speaking, … or not).
Dear Lovely Lady,
OK – I’ve calmed down now.
A point that stands out for me – have you noticed the similarity between how you met with him, and how he is carrying on with the OW? Initially you ‘rejected’ him at High School. Now he’s chasing another woman who is ‘playing hard to get’ (in his mind). Even if he did manage to wear her down with his relentless pursuit, you have to believe, he’s going to hold her initial ‘rejection’ against her. In the end though, whether he gets with her or not, that’s not the important thing here – you are the important thing, and fuck them, fuck them very much.
‘The Great I Am’ had a similar MO – he pushed and pushed for every step of our relationship – initially I just wanted to date occasionally (had to be every weekend for him) – then I was reluctant to move in with him (proof that I never loved him as much as he loved me, according to him) then, after six years he finally convinced me to marry him. Within 6 months he was chasing (courting – I’m glad you used that word, it was my word straight away as soon as I discovered the phone records that busted them, he called it a ‘friendship’ – even though it took a further 2 years of lies and gaslighting before he finally admitted it was a PA, it was still an affair to me). Marriage continued – well – the abusive relationship I called a marriage still continued for another 18 months, because I hadn’t found CL yet and for some reason, his indignant assertion that it was never physical (‘ I MEANT MY VOWS’! – he shouted at me), made me feel like an insensitive jerk for considering an EA enough reason to end it with the bastard!
Ah yes, they pursue you but when the shit hits the fan they rewrite that history too, dontcha know? My mouth fell open in first MC with my ex when he told the counselor, and I quote: “she pursued me relentlessly” this didn’t happen, I hooked up with him and never expected to see him again, he kept coming round and love bombing and just, well you know how that goes, he was all that…I was very leary of him and should never have let his charm get to me. Anyhow right after that gem, he said “I finally gave in and moved in with her, I needed someone to take care of me, I never loved her”. He told me who he was and I *really* wish I had believed him that day, would have saved me a world of hurt. But of course he took that all back immediately, he didn’t mean it…it was probably the only truth he ever told me.
“I finally gave in and moved in with her, I needed someone to take care of me, I never loved her”. He told me who he was and I *really* wish I had believed him that day, would have saved me a world of hurt’.
Oh Dat – we are both such different people now, aren’t we? – those were the days we didn’t even know people THINK like that. I know I couldn’t even consider being in a loveless relationship – what would be the point? Trouble was, I didn’t know there were human beings out there who’d claim no problem with it – nor have any problem pretending love – I mean really, what is the fucking point. Sure, you wasted my time – but you wasted your own time too!!
When my first marriage failed (no cheating) I was devastated and totally leery of all relationships. I met ‘The Great I Am’ on a blind date and I went for that because, frankly, I was lonely and horny and figured a year laid down crying over the end of my first marriage was long enough! ‘The Great I Am’ was totally not my type at all i.e. I’d always been attracted to bikers, rockers, hippyish types – you know ‘liberals’. ‘The Great I Am’ considers himself left-wing but I used to tell him ‘yeah, so left-wing you’er swinging hard right’ but, stupidly, I thought I was fixing my picker! (Ah ha ah ha – the laughs on me)! Well, I’ve had lots of good lovin’ in my life but I’ve never been so relentlessly love-bombed, ever, right up until the moment the phone records busted his arse – from that second he became CL’s shark cartoon! Of course he has re-written history, I’d expect nothing less from him now! It was a big mindfuck for me for ages, I did really begin to wonder if he’d been abducted by aliens, but no – just a huge lesson in the workings of someone with scrambled eggs for brains. Wish I’d have signed up for needlework instead (and I hated needlework and domestic science at school) 😀
I-L-Jerk,
I’m sorry to tell you but there isn’t enough room in your marriage for you, him, OW and his sense of entitlement which is about as big as a barrage-balloon right now.
“He and the almost-OW never had sex and now we’re back together.”
If you believe this, then you also believe that pigs fly and babies come with the stork and are left under a gooseberry bush.
“It’s mildly flirtatious, which is how, incidentally, he describes their relationship.” = cheating. If he is putting time and energy into such a relationship outside of his marriage, then HE IS CHEATING ! This is disrespecting you and your marriage.
IMO you should get rid of blubbering Billy and let him ‘cry me a river’ in someone else’s lap.
He can’t be reasoned with because his logic is skewed, maybe a divorce petition will wake him up?
“Flirting” is cheater code for “fucking”.
‘blubbering Billy’ – Cool! 😀
Lovely Lady, I put up with this kind of crap throughout my whole marriage. My ex always said they were “just friends” when he’d get uncomfortably close to the women he’d work with. I felt like the crazy one because I his lack of boundaries and respect for me were so nonexistent with these relationships. Just know that you are RIGHT to be upset with your husband’s behavior ,and that emotional cheating is just as bad as physical cheating. Don’t put up with this behavior for years like I did, it’s not going to get any better! The longer he has no consequences for his behavior, the worse it’s going to get. You deserve to be treated better than this.
“I’m positive they haven’t had sex because this woman is perfectly happy to be worshiped for free,”
That’s your reasoning for believing the affair didn’t go physical???? WTF? It sounds like you’re saying they would have only had sex if he had paid her…I don’t buy it for a second. He’s cheating and I can guarantee you he’s slept with someone. You separated for 9 months….was this a legal separation clearly stating that you could date and have sex with other people or was it just something the two of you decided to do on your own for 9 months? I realize that some states differ but in many states such as Texas, for example, if you’re still married it’s still adultery, regardless of physical separation. My guess is that it probably wasn’t a legal separation, in which case you better believe he was sleeping around in that time. All that separation did was give him more space to do it without you in the same room with him to keep tabs on him. It also would have only furthered his rationalization to cheat more. He clearly has no problem doing it with you around so having you gone would only make it that much more OK.
He’s flagrantly cheating in front of your face (look up emotional affairs and I guarantee you will find them listed under “infidelity” and “affairs.” Even the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapists considers emotional affairs cheating http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/infidelity.aspx). He collapsed in tears in your lap because his moves to have sex with another woman got turned down, he stays late at work a lot, he was spending all sorts secret time off from work and money on her for day trips (and you really think he wouldn’t have paid her for sex?) For all you know he put the moves on her a long time ago and she just only turned him down that one time but not the x amount of times before that or the x amount of times that have continued since they’re still in contact and still getting drinks together at night. (And how is the involvement of alcohol in their meetups supposed to help his case and make you believe that nothing more has happened?)
“He told me the courtesy of telling me he was going to spend time with her was over. He maintains that he is doing absolutely nothing wrong…”
Right, all the more reason to believe what comes out of his mouth then. He’s not going to give you any more heads ups as to when he’s going to see her, he’s going to keep it more secret and he still thinks he’s doing nothing wrong. Yes, I really would just take his word that he hasn’t slept with her or anyone else.
Follow the advice on here and lawyer up.
I have a friend whose duffus husband was chasing another woman at work because his spirit guides were telling him too. Not only was he always a wierd guy, you know the kind of guy who you say a quick hello to and run off because you have your toe nails to clip, kind of guy before you get stuck talking to him for ages as his eyes glitter…that kind of guy. So this poor woman gets pursued because the spirit guides told him they were lovers in a previous life. Alluring to have a married psycho chasing you. She went to HR and started a sexual harrassment case against him and pretty much they forced him into retirement and my friend divorced him… he gets weirder by the moment but is not lonely… he has his crystal and all of his spirit guides as friends.
Your husband is at the very best a big immature crybaby… but mostly, I bet he is a completely ineffectual person. After you do, his work colleagues will come to you and congratulate you for getting rid of this guy. Run… Run… Run…
If you run this through the cheater translator, ‘just friends’ with co-worker that they are going out to dinner with and texting means ‘long term affair, days off from work, sneaking off to motels’ etc.
Who puts up with this?
Chumps. Hence this site. Most of us here have an appalling story (or twenty) about the insane things we put up with or wept over or excused or felt guilty about before we began “dechumpifying” ourselves with CL’s help.
Yuck. This sounds like my ex, who said it was no big deal to date during marriage because he just wanted someone to be nice to him. The implication, of course, was that I wasn’t nice to him. That was patently untrue. Although I certainly am not a saint (or not completely a saint – heh) I was a pretty great wife and partner in life, so yeah, he can kiss my ass and your hopefully STBX should be invited to kiss yours.
These entitled assholes all try to pull the same bullshit. Chuck him out and get on with a life that doesn’t involve this kind of fuckery.
Urgh Nord – ‘no big deal to date during marriage’? Pox on their houses – all of them – just as soon as the Chumps have moved out!
I hear the Vatican are discussing it – the evidence of your miraculous activities include managing not to castrate that STBX you had the misfortune to have anything to do with! 😉