Dear Chump Lady, Where are all the single, available men?
Dear Chump Lady,
Please throw some light on the very stormy waters of the dating world out there. The last page of your book encourages to love again strong and true, and I get this implicitly but WHERE do we meet these new guys? (Especially for those of us who were dealt the wonderful shit sandwich in our fifties and over…)
Where are single available men? (If I hear one of my friends ever mention the grocery store’s alleys as possible love lanes one more time, why, I am liable to wring her little wrinkled neck with my very own hands! The judge will understand and go easy on me..)
Chump Lady, help us understand where we can spot and get to speak with these mythical creatures. Online? If so, which sites would you recommend? Please let us know. We are getting a bit lonely and would really love to hear your take on the dating scene live or online.
Thanks,
Pascale
Dear Pascale,
The supply of straight Single Available Men are all in a knotty pine-paneled man cave, enjoying brewskis and watching the Detroit Pistons in Ferndale, Michigan. I’m not allowed to divulge the street address. To do so would compromise the national straight Single Available Man strategic reserve.
Occasionally one is released, by presidential pardon and an act of Congress, into the dating pool. There you must discern for yourself amongst the thousands of douchebags, predators, and married men if he’s really Single, Available, and decent. Please know you are competing against hordes of other 50+ year-old women for the one, pardoned straight Single Available Man. Hope you look 30 and your tits don’t sag. Best of luck!
May I just say how much I hate this question — where are all the single, available men? There is NO RIGHT ANSWER. The whole question is a horrible set up. To answer means I think a) there is a national Single Available Man shortage; b) I think you need a partner to be happy; and c) they’re all hiding somewhere and I can tell you how to find one.
A) I don’t think there is a Single Available Man shortage anymore than there is a Decent, Not Batshit Crazy, Solvent Woman crisis. There are just people. Some are awesome. Many suck. Go figure it out and have some boundaries as you explore.
B) You don’t require a partner to be happy. In my book I say you should love again and I’m very clear that does not necessarily mean a partner. I say go adopt an orphan, join a historic preservation society, or grow peonies. Quote, “I have no idea what your personal happiness looks like,” unquote, it just doesn’t belong with your cheater.
I do think you should have courage and it is not impossible to love another person again.
C) I can’t tell you how to find a Single, Available Man. I only really know a few men very well. I’m married to one and am the daughter of another. They’re not available. My 21-year-old son is single and available, but if a 50-year-old woman came after him I’d run her off waving a shovel.
I’m really the last person you should ask how to date. I’m a flaming dork. It’s only by the grace of God that I met my husband (another flaming dork). The only dating tips I have are know your worth and healthy relationships are reciprocal. After that, you’re on your own.
Ack! Tracy this is very unsatisfying advice! It’s all very fine and good for you to be so blithe about partnering up, you there from the comfort of your Happily Married status. Apparently you’ve forgotten the dating trenches! You suck!
(Sigh)
Having a good partner is a great blessing. I won’t lie. It’s awesome. BUT IT’S NOT THE ONLY BLESSING IN LIFE. Seriously, live life today as if it’s never going to happen for you. Because you don’t know if it will or won’t. Do not predicate your happiness on finding your One True Love. That very expectation sets you up for unhappiness. Makes you feel a wee bit desperate. Makes you compare yourself to the More Fortunate. Don’t do this to yourself!
We don’t enjoy every blessing. Not every one of us is rich, thin, healthy, fertile or possessing friends, a loving family, children on the honor roll, or six-pack abs. We all get some blessings, but we don’t get ALL the blessings.
And that’s okay.
I’m not saying every blessing is equivalent. Having healthy children isn’t the same as having thin thighs. I’m just saying that it’s okay to not have EVERY blessing.
You have to adapt and overcome. Look, you might not be born rich — you can go out and hustle and work three jobs and it might happen for you. You might become better off than you were, your hard work might get you a Lear jet. Or, it might just make you an exhausted person who works three jobs. You can do things to improve your odds, but you might not get that blessing.
You might not be able to have children. Maybe you really want children and maybe God gave you a crap uterus. You can let that fact make you miserable. Or you can adopt. Or you can be an wonderful involved aunt or Big Sister. Or you can take all that money you would spend on daycare and frozen pizza and vacation in Europe instead. What you cannot do is predicate your happiness on having a functional uterus.
Similarly, you might want to find Mr. Right. You can online date your heart out, get fixed up with every widower at your church, and lay in wait in the frozen vegetable aisle. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won’t. But don’t predicate your happiness on it happening. Go be your best, happiest self without a relationship and see what happens.
For what it’s worth, I think the odds are good of pairing up again. All people (unless they are sociopaths) want to bond with other people. We crave intimacy and connection. I do think we should all be open to connection with others.
Good people are not “mythical.” They exist. You exist! Just get out there and live life and I trust you’ll cross each other’s paths eventually. Maybe this will result in a boyfriend or maybe a really great set of friends and a vibrator. I don’t know. Good luck.
This one ran a few years ago and I’m still fielding off the gazillion suggestions to start a chump dating site. If you can find an algorithm to weed out the sociopaths, let’s talk. But I fear such a venture would be a feeding ground for freaks. Look! One-stop chump shopping! I still have the very unsatisfying answer of “go be your best self” and try to relax.
My first foray back into dating resulted in being chumped again following the revelation that he was cheating on me with an actual married woman with small children. This was someone I already knew, not a total stranger. Turns out I didn’t know him anywhere as well as I thought I did, and more fool me for thinking I was ‘safe’. The red flags were there but for fear of having trust ‘issues’ I ignored them and was overly trusting and gave him acres of allowance and benefit of doubt. So, my picker definitely still needs a LOT of work, and I still need time.
I know I still need time because now I’m looking at every man on the street and on the telly and thinking ‘what makes you different? You’re all he same. If you’re not already a cheater you will be eventually.’ Yes. I need more time. And possibly a therapist.
So I’m focused entirely on me and my kids, continuing to get life in order and living my best one.
Just be careful if you get a male therapist. Mine told me after 4 months of seeing him professionally ( 2 yrs from last dday and 1 yr post divorce) that he thought my real problem wasn’t my insane ex, it was that I was hiding behind my ex as an excuse to avoid facing my romantic feelings for him. His proof was that I had missed 3 appointments, which demonstrated ambivalence about my feelings for him as a therapist. Wow. And now he keeps calling me to chastise me for not paying my last bill. Hello, you already got $2,500 in cash out of me in reimbursable medical expenses. I am no longer paying narcissists to fuck with my head.
I am so sorry you’re dealing with this idiot. Please report him to his licensing board. His behavior is dangerous and inexcusable.
He should be reported to his licensing board. He is a predator.
Unreimbursible*
I can relate to this for sure and coming up to 5 years post D day I am only just feeling ‘ready’ to put myself out there in the over 50’s dating pool. it is damn scary and after a very brief time trying online I have decided I want to meet someone in real life first. First thing I have done is spent a lot of time and effort rebuilding my life to be ‘mine’ so any new partners are not filling a gap in my old life. now my life is so different to the ‘old’- I have changed jobs twice, moved to a different part of the country (NZ), bought and sold 2 houses and back on my feet financially and done a whole lot of travel. Son is now ‘adult’ and finished university so not with me so now it is all about me. I am focussing just on widening my scale connections rather than trying to ‘hunt’ for a new mate. My immediate previous job had me surrounded by wonderful positive male role models with whom I had great professional relationships with and helped me see there are still ‘good’ men out there being great partners and fathers and generally good men. I have joined some outdoor hiking and biking groups via meet up and they are a great way to meet nice people of both genders. Now I actually do have to confront to myself that the possibility of dating is now very real. My cheater EX was not only a cheater but also a porn addicted voyeur and I had to come to terms with he fact that pretty much 15 years of my life had been a hologram. I have only had one very brief intimate encounter post D-day and it as way too soon by any stretch of the imagination and left me crying into my pillow.
I focussed on my relationship with myself and being the best I could be so that when I meet people I am not all gloomy and wallowing in my past. Not easy and I followed Tracy’sadvice of ‘faking it till making it’.
On the flip side I have had a couple of experiences which made me angry- men I thought were my friends offered sex with a sob story that they don’t have sex with their long term girlfriends/wife. neither of these men knew the details of my situation just that my ex had cheated on me.
I am 53, feel like I am 40, and just really relearning how it all goes. I don’t want casual hook ups but would like to share my life with someone -or at least a holiday 🙂 be gentle with your self and just focus on being you and trying new things.
Same here, 3 years post divorce, 53. Haven’t had one date. The only men who have asked me I refused as it was pretty obvious that they were single for a reason. I don’t have a whole lot of faith that I will meet someone that I can have a healthy long-term relationship with.
I don’t do casual sex. I tried on line singles groups and ran away screaming from the horror. And how do you tell that your online friend is actually for real without hiring a private investigator. It hard enough trying to smell out the BS when they are right in front of you, much less over fiber optic cable. Besides, even if I met someone online, what good does it do when they are 50 states away and I don’t have money to travel or interest in relocating?
So, I’m just working on my life and being as happy and fulfilled as I can be on my own. After all, even alone, I’m not as lonely as I was in my marriage.
good on you skunk cabbage- great name!. I agree an authentic relationship with yourself is better than a fake on line one.
Thank you, Kiwigirl. Your comments and some bright sunshine got me out of bed today.
thank you 🙂 theres always a reason to get out of bed even though some days you just want to curl up and die.
*social* not scale typo sorry
Wow! This is the first post where by the time I get to read it there is less than 180 comments (currently at 3! So a real low!)
Clearly the advice either resonates and we have nothing to add (me) or the Chump Nation dating scene really is as dire as Tracy says. I’m going with both. Glad I have no desire to date. All good on my own in Meh-dom thanks!
I think you just clicked on it right after it was posted. That being said, CL is right – this site is about healing and recovering from infidelity, and maybe for avoiding future cheaters, so you’re not going to have a lot of other topics discussed – be they how to find dates or how to make spaghetti puttanesca.
Well, I did post this in the middle of the night my time…
And by the time you read it, the last available man in Michigan will be taken… Trust me, I live in Michigan, and I know there’s only one or two to begin with.
I was wondering if it was just where I am now— I used to live in Michigan and have images of all these potential quality men that might be there if I moved back—— Thanks for clarifying that.
Country Boys! They are hidden in plain sight. They appreciate good women, are animal lovers, and mighty handy with anything that needs fixed around the house.
The best bait is to raise your hood in a Wal-Mart parking lot appearing to have car trouble. If he uses the word “Ma’am”…..that’s the secret code word to success.
Country boys will tolerate your obnoxious, insane family….so, in return….please tolerate a few football games and NASCAR races.
Nah, guys who like to rescue women and are old-fashioned chivalrous types are often covert misogynists. They put you on a pedestal until they realize you’re human and have flaws. Then they become abusive because you’re “just like all the other bitches”.
I am confused. If a man is chivalrous, he is misogynistic? It’s called being a gentleman. It’s a sign of respect. I was raised by a mother and all of my friends moms to be one. I would have been killed if I wasn’t one! That is a stereotype. I have never put a woman on a pediatal. I know women can be extremely abusive (WAS married 24 years to a Covert Narcissist and she had BPD). Even the non-abusive ones around my age have TONS of baggage. I am engaged to a fellow chump, who is imperfect, but I love all of her. But I will hold the door for her, walk on the outside, etc.
Nice and well-behaved according to his standards, that is.
No. Nobody said that. But sometimes chivalry and respect are conditional: You only get them as long as you play the part of the nice, well-behaved, little lady. When it turns out you’re a normal human with normal human weaknesses, foibles, and possibly a steel spine, you’re out of line and you don’t deserve chivalry and respect any more.
I haven’t dated any of these but I’ve known some socially.
Rescuing is their hook. Lovebombing and future faking reels you into marriage. Then the mask slips and you’re see he’s really a Cluster B with a constant need for strange. I thank god I saw the real him after 11 months of marriage before I was totally broken.
I’m so glad you got out of it that quickly. Mine was a covert narc so I didn’t even know what he was up to until we’d been together for decades. The love-bombing at the start wasn’t even strong enough to seem suspicious, either. Then came the devalue and discard and he was like a completely different person. The thing is that they can even convince themselves they are normal just by mirroring appropriate responses. If they believe they are normal, they can certainly convince you of it.
I am now suspicious of pretty much everyone I meet because I’ve seen how evil can hide in plain sight. This is the legacy these creeps leave; long after they are gone they are still affecting your life. They most likely know that and get off on it.
Not ALL country boys. My first try–a year after divorce–was with a farmer. Totally not my usual type, but I thought maybe I needed to do something different after being chumped twice. This farmer was a hard working guy, seemed great on the surface, said all the right things. At about 3 months red flags flew up EVERYWHERE! Thank goodness I’ve been following ChumpLady and knew to cut that guy loose. He was a covert narc. No wonder this “good old boy” is still not remarried after 5 years….
He must not have been a West Texas Country Boy.
Dang…I’m in East Texas….do I really need to drive that far to meet a nice Texan……
Yes – But I’d be a little leery if you get a ‘Darlin’ instead! Hahaha – .. er did I say ‘ leery’?
Fun pun?…Nah
Woohoo! I may have to try the ‘hood up in the Wal-Mart parking lot’!!
I love in Michigan too. And I would have to agree. On two dating sites – I think most 60 years olds are looking for the under 40 girl. Your comment made me laugh Iron!
livefortoday2, EEEEWWWW! Why do old men think the only women suitable for them are half their age? Gross.
Hmmm the age thing must depend where you are in life. My ex’s smoochypie is 20 years younger. She was 28 and he 48 when the affair started. They have been together almost 8 years now. I wonder if the age gap will change her perception when she’s 50 and he’s 70? Or will true love be enough?
I am a young 58; last year I was staying in a small hotel in Paris (because once you are not funding cheaterpants’ double life, there is actually money that you can spend on things like taking yourself to Paris – who knew?!). Well, it IS a city famous for romance, and I actually got hit on – by a guy who was 85 if he was a day. EWWWW!!!! Happily another female guest about my age read the signals – turned out he’d hit on her, too – and came over to “remind” me that it was about time for us to head to our restaurant. So off I went to dinner, in the company of a French woman I had never met before. We had a lovely dinner, and we struck up a firm transatlantic friendship, with plans to get together again. Sometimes life doesn’t give you what you want, instead it gives you what you need.
On the flip side: my sister was having dinner with our father at a restaurant in Paris. When my dad got up to go to the bathroom the waiter came over to tell her (actually, to scold her) that he’s much too old for her. Well, of course he is: he’s not only old enough to be her father, he IS her father!
NotAnyMore, I love Paris! I find the people are usually so nice and helpful. I’ve never seen the French “rude” like people paint them. There’s rude people in every culture, I find Americans are far more rude.
I just lost my post into cyberspace. Pissed. Just wanted to say all “ewwws” are off-putting. It reeks of agism. Yes. Alot of men need a reality check when it comes to dating. But, to spew ewww all over the sight is shallow, callous and cruel! No one wants to be objectified. I’M m a sixty year old woman, and I would be delighted to answer my door to find a man with flowers! Even if I didn’t find him attractive, I could appreciate the gesture! Just sayin’.
I absolutely LOVE this story, NotAnyMore. Thank you for sharing it : )
A newly widowed neighbor 24 yrs my senior came to my door with flowers & asked me out for dinner. He said I was all he could think about the past 3 weeks. Ewwwww! What was he thinking? I’m 9 years out from dday, divorced and single & this is what the dating pool looks like!
In my mind, anything more than a casual visual-only interest in a person significantly younger than one’s self is a red flag of immaturity at best, and, at worst, a sign that the person has attuned their brain for novelty-seeking and hyper-idolization of youth through heavy porn use and/or patronage of strippers/prostitutes.
Mature, healty adults may think young people look pretty, but it won’t translate to behavior. We don’t want to exploit children sexually. The idea of getting busy with someone young enough to be our own child is repugnant to us. Also, we care about character, so we prefer partners who can grok our life experiences and have cogent conversations, even for casual contact.
My two cents, anyway.
Amiisfree, yes exactly! It’s not that they’re old, it’s that they are looking at young women as nothing but sex objects. If they wanted a partner they would look for someone with similar life experience and maturity. It’s also about arm candy and impressing others. Like buying an expensive car (people are not objects to be collected). Young women are easier to manipulate too. Another perk for the twisted.
Totally agree Aimiisfree. I always watch where their eyes go as predators like the Limited are porn addicted and live in a fantasy world.
Thank you. I don’t want to hear that men (it’s usually men) are “wired that way”. Some men have been socialized that way. It’s creepy. And they run around giving themselves high fives.
Funny thing is, if I wanted to do the same I could wave cash and desparation at poorer hot guys and have no problem picking up casual sex from someone wanting a funded lifestyle. That would be turning myself into a thing, a commodity and having been a different kind of commodity my whole life with narcissitic parents and ex (psychologist verified btw) I don’t need that anymore. It’s not worth trashing myself for a sense of control.
it’s three years in, and i am horny as hell. i don’t fit into the modern online dating world; it’s just so forced and fake. not me at all. unfortunately i live in a small town and there is no one i’m interested in…i basically feel invisible in my mid 40’s which is super sad. have always been happy on my own but, for once, i’d really like to connect with someone. i’ve become a master at pleasuring myself and am dying to have good sex for the first time in my life after being married to someone who had no idea what he was doing. as i said, i’m horny.
OMG- you are exactly me. Well, at least we aren’t alone in our sexual deserts!
Dating sites will work for getting laid if all you are looking for is the sex. Give it a try. Though you might want to do that while on vacay in a big city…more choices
Several women screwed my husband after meeting him on match.com while we were married. You can too. He’s remarried and still at it. He’s actually really good at sex.
That was one of my major issues with online dating. I kept looking at the profiles and wondering if any of their exes were chumps I know from CN. A not-yet-ex spouse of a chump would be even worse.
Horny can lead to narcs. Beware.
‘gazillion suggestions to start a chump dating site”
Funny website names:
1. MiseryLovesCompany.com
2. GotChumped.com
3. LookingForAFix.com
4. BaggageBuddies.com
5. WhatCouldPossiblyGoWrong.com
5.
I like it! How about:
7. Mutual knife removal society
8. Ex- gullibilty club
9. Reality Kings – oops that’s a band – Reality studies group
10. Liar detection society
11. Psycho identification club
12. Society of Abandonment
13. The shit sandwich club
There – that’s a decent start! It’s a contest!
Bah! I meant cantaloupe on the side.
I’d also like my shit sandwich club with bacon. Might make it taste better.
Does the shit sandwich club come with a slice of cantaloupe at the end? Or can I have that at the end?
Nothing makes the shit sandwich taste better. I’ve been served way too many.
NoRedFlags.com
ChumpBait.com
VictimOrVulture.com
FoolsRushIn.com
CantBeAlone.com
NarcHuntingGround.com
InsecurelyYours.com
RelationshipWreckage.com
BlindTrust.com
I’d go the other direction:
Newsecurity.com
pairedgrowthandhealing.com
buildingconfidencetogether.com
hellisover.com
slowtrustoptions.com
I like ‘Relationship Wreckage.com’ or maybe ‘Relationshipwreck.com!
So many good ones. But let’s not be victims moving forward. Fuck them. We’re gonna move on and live the best life possible. Even if it take a years to get there.
Love The shit sandwich club!! I’d join.
Baggagebuddies. Hilarious. Would be fitting to many. Not just chumps.
Love number 5….made me laugh this morning. Needed that, I’m 7 months in from DDay, 5 months divorced. DS (14) is running hot and cold with being a reasonable tween and being verbally abusive. He’s got Attachment Disorder / PSTD (adopted at 2 1/2) and this has his him so hard. He’s really struggling. I’m really struggling. Scared for what will become of him — am I enough to pull him through this? In honesty I’ve had long conversations with God about my feelers and even the fact I don’t think I can do this. Scares the hell out of me, he’s my son and I’m all he has. He is a child, I’m the adult. I just don’t feel very capable.
Two nights ago I actually had the thought ‘if I had someone they could help me (with all the things that scare me). I immediately knew it was wrong and wouldn’t work. I just don’t have anything else to give and I’m so desperate I wouldn’t have boundaries.
I want to be happy. I want to feel like I didn’t waist my life. This is a great post for me to read today.
Love number 5….made me laugh this morning. Needed that, I’m 7 months in from DDay, 5 months divorced. DS (14) is running hot and cold with being a reasonable tween and being verbally abusive. He’s got Attachment Disorder / PSTD (adopted at 2 1/2) and this has his him so hard. He’s really struggling. I’m really struggling. Scared for what will become of him — am I enough to pull him through this? In honesty I’ve had long conversations with God about my feelings and even the fact I don’t think I can do this. Scares the hell out of me, he’s my son and I’m all he has. He is a child, I’m the adult. I just don’t feel very capable.
Two nights ago I actually had the thought ‘if I had someone they could help me (with all the things that scare me). I immediately knew it was wrong and wouldn’t work. I just don’t have anything else to give and I’m so desperate I wouldn’t have boundaries.
I want to be happy. I want to feel like I didn’t waist my life. This is a great post for me to read today.
Silver,
My sister adopted two children as a single parent. One, now 18, has fetal alcohol syndrome, with cognitive issues, and will never be fully independent. One thing that has helped my sister to raise her son was Big Brothers (and Sisters). She was really lucky that her son was matched up with a guy who has maintained contact with her son since he was 4! You might see if there’s a Big Brothers and Sisters branch where you are. Or work through the YMCA youth programs.
Hi Silver Anniversary,
I agree, #5 for the win!
Divorced 1.5 years, 3 years out from Dday and ex living off in fantasy land with his girlfriend half his age (and much closer to my sons age than his own)……I have a 16 year old adopted son and 14 year old daughter who I’m parenting alone too. My son has taken it hard, has never been to his dads new place, and is borderline verbally abusive to me and my daughter at times as well. It’s taken 2 years to convince him, but he starts therapy tomorrow. Hes a great kid who’s really struggling. He’s tired of hurting, and ready to look at what’s going on. I struggle every day to put down my anger at ex for hurting my kids so badly, then leaving me to clean up the mess alone. No time to date here, I’m mother father breadwinner and commuter. You’ll get through this, we all will. Hugs.
I’d just like to add that another resource for kids is “Outward Bound.” Their wilderness trips vary in length, but kids learn a huge amount about themselves and what they’re capable of. The experiences builds teamwork and includes a component of service to a town where the camping happens.
My own son, in his early twenties and coming off the rails, did two of these trips, one for two weeks, and one a semester long “leadership” course. They saved him. In fact, he recently told me, years after his trip, that he doesn’t know where he’d be right now if he hadn’t had those experiences.
You are so right–the thought that finding a partner will help you with all the things that scare you is the worst thing you can do. You rightly point out that thinking this way makes you vulnerable because you aren’t picking from a point of strength and confidence. You are seeing being in a relationship as a life raft. That makes you vulnerable to users and predators. That makes you prone to settling rather than finding someone who is a good match for you.
And don’t discount how important the things that scare you are. That’s where your growth is. You don’t have to tackle them all at once. And you can tap friends, relatives, neighbors and professionals to get a handle on those things. For example, I don’t do the maintenance on my riding mower myself. I outsource that. But I’ve learned how to operate it. I tried for a couple of years to do “leaf season” by myself and I know that’s impossible. So I’ve found a young person who needs the money and is willing to help. When he moves on, I’m confident I will find someone else to help or figure out another solution. I’m a much happier, more relaxed and confident person because I’ve learned to face things that scare me, to understand that there is no one perfect solution, that things change from year to year, that I can ask others for advice when I’m not sure how to proceed. I went through 4 tree people before I found the one who is affordable, ridiculously qualified and knowledgeable, and aligned with my goals.
Once you know you can handle your own life on your own, then you can bring that life confidence to dating, which allows you to say, when you need to, “This isn’t working for me.”
LAJ, what you said hit me like a brick wall. I was looking to the Dickhead to be my life raft, my safety. My narc father left me vulnerable to abandonment (and that’s exactly what Dickhead did) and I dated a guy in high school who was in the closet but he was young and this was in the mid-80s. Because he didn’t want me like I thought other teenage boys wanted teenage girls, I turned that inwards not realizing that he just wasn’t attracted to women.
I had moved away from my hometown where all my relatives still live, graduated as a non-traditional (aka older student) student, and started working at the university where I still work today. I was comfortable being me and he seemed/projected to be a guy that was good, safe, open.
It all goes back to those damn FOO issues. It’s only by peering into other relationships that I realized that my marriage wasn’t like theirs. I discovered over the last few years that I never had that easiness with which two people exist. I never had it with my father either. I’ve worked with many men over the years. Some are very kind, some are just nice and some are scumbags dressed in suits. Wish I had paid more attention to kindness when I was younger. Not enough emphasis is given that quality. I don’t recall anyone every saying look for kindness…it matters and it will matter for years to come.
14 is a rough age even without attachment issues. You have my sympathy and hope you can feel the support.
You are and will continue to be a strong parent.
Can you do this?
Alone?
Yes, because you have to!
One of mine had other issues and, despite being married, I truly was alone in raising him. I just didn’t realize I had been doing it all alone until after the divorce! Please remember that you are the one with your son and you can be a team for each other.
If I can offer you something to hold onto, it is that you will somehow get through each day trying the very best you can and it will have to be enough. Anyone who has made it so many years with achild with attachment issues can make it through the difficult teenage years – one day at a time.
The reward for your determination and presence will be worth it. You will always know you did the very best possible for your son. As I am sure you know, not every issue can be solved the way you hope it will be. Parenting such a child isn’t out of a storybook but there are plenty of healthy, solidrelationships to use as role models.
May I also suggest a “parents without partners” support group for single parents with or without issues. You need that support, especially at 14!!! It is rough!
My son with issues is now in his 30s. He is happy and has a wonderful life, just not the one I would have predicted. He is financially successful, has friends, travels the world and know that his mother loves and supports him no matter what. I love that we are still a team.
Keep up the good work.
My divorce was 3 years ago. I did not feel like dating up until recently. It’s so strange, but I met a nice guy through a game of wordfeud. We startend chatting about wordfeud, but it got more personal. We started texting and then hé called me to hear my voice. We exchanged several picture. This coming saturday we will meet for the first time in a bar…. We’ll see how it goes. And now I got another invite just a few days ago, from a guy I know from a discussion forum on Facebook (about politics, education, etc.). He sent me a FB message if I would like to discuss some more over diner in a nice restaurant. I thought ‘ why not’? So next weekend I am meeting that guy. I know for sure both are single. So I am quite excited! I live in the Netherlands, so that’s an advantage. Nobody lives extremely far away….
Let us know how it goes!
I will, tomorrow’s the big day ????????
Have fun! I just started dating, scared to death, i’m 53, never done this but its fun. Just watch your boundaries and take all the time you need. Greatings from a chump from Brabant
If they are nice men they will wait to move to an intimate relationship. For at least a month anyway!
Ahhhh, how nice! I live in Utrecht, and I’m 50 years old….
Woohoo, 3 years after D-day and 1.5 years after finalized divorce, on my first attempt with the scary world of online dating, I met a nice lady I really like! (single mother, fellow chump, would you know…)
Second date on Friday, wish me luck!
Greetings from a single hopefully-soon-unavailable man in his early 50’s 😉
Looks like some lucky lady found the one that got released back into the wild.
Damn! There goes the strategic reserve! 😉 Good luck!
Serendipity.
Hello all, just went on my first date tonight. Worse than bad. Tracy’s ‘face like a boiled potato’ anecdote stuck in my mind. Always makes me laugh. Not that he looked like that, it’s just that it was so bad it was ridiculous in its absurdity.
Then I went to bed crying that me ex had put me in this situation where all I really wanted was to stay home and be a happily married wife and mother. Yes feeling sorry for myself. Got onto CL for some comfort and inspiration and this posting jumped right out at me.
Going through my mind as my date raged against his ex was how much I have done to build my new life. A lot of the time it just felt like hard work getting there.
But I have a great life in so many ways, rich and interesting and busy with old friends and some new ones. And I can see that much of this has come out of the hard slog. Getting up and going to work when you don’t want to, going out to a social gathering when you want to curl up in a ball and stay home. All the hours sorting finances, for settlement and divorce, finding documents , changing my name on everything….. I feel so strong and resilient and grounded.
Not sure I would want to give that new life up or squeeze in a new relationship.
A good relationship would be great… sometime. But there are so many other dimensions to our lives. I’m going to enjoy what’s here in front of me.
Anyway I’ve been on the dating site for only a few days! I’ll give it a few more dates.
The one thing it has done is refocused my mind. It was stuck in a backwards reel, and now I have shifted my thoughts forward a little.
I think I read this here a while ago. “This ain’t Noah’s Arc so you don’t have to be pair bonded.” I didn’t think I’d ever agree with that but 5 years after my divorce I definitely do. Part of the reason my marriage lasted 3 years beyond its expiration date (dday) was because I was afraid of being alone. It took a while to realize this but I was lonely in my marriage which is far worse than being alone.
The way I look at it is that my picker was really broken and I had horrible boundaries. I needed to work on that before I could consider dating. These days, I just think if it happens, it happens and if it does and it’s someone compatible then it will enhance my life and add to the positives. It definitely won’t be the end of the world if it doesn’t.
And I’m with you Tracy. We don’t need a chump dating site. No need to point ourselves out to the sociopaths of the world!
I’m with you guys on not needing a chump dating site. If one were to spring up, I can imagine a lot of people who are tuning in to CL for the first time, finding the dating site and jumping in to try to ease their loneliness way too soon, which can create some bad feelings between members of this site.
Also, I think that the philosophy of it is kind of antithematic to ChumpNation. The message I get from the blog is basically, “Find yourself, empower yourself and be yourself, no one else can complete you, until you first put your own puzzle together. You CAN be happy without a significant other.” Adding a dating site to that would imply (to me anyway) “Yeah, you CAN be happy by yourself, but why try?”
Oh, please, no dating site.
Cheatersuck, I too was afraid of being alone, so I put up with a lot of abuse. And, as usual, I thought I was the problem… I am 67 now and D-Day was 3 years ago.
Now I am so busy with family, a first grandchild, my job (I love it) and starting farming that I have no time to think about being lonely. I do envy elderly couples in my age range that I can tell are true companions, but better alone than in bad company.
I’m glad Tracy posted this rerun today. I had never read it and it did me good. I will print this part to carry in my billfold: “Having a good partner is a great blessing. I won’t lie. It’s awesome. BUT IT’S NOT THE ONLY BLESSING IN LIFE. … We don’t enjoy every blessing. We all get some blessings, but we don’t get ALL the blessings. And that’s okay.” And I am blessed.
I can truly relate to the above.
I’m 9 years from DDay and 6 years divorced. I’m now 62. Happy, healthy, feeling and looking great.
I did the insanely hard work of clawing my way out of more dark places than I care to remember, figured out who I am and what I want and am now living a genuine life.
Dated for 4+ years online; not sure why I was never fixed up but whatever. Joined many groups and participated in many activities along with a job that introduced me to new, interesting people on a regular basis. The result was no love interest but lots of new friends and a fun, compainionless life.
Last fall I decided to take down my dating profiles because dating started to be more work than fun. The relief I felt was immediate and convinced me that I made the right choice for me.
This topic is particularly timely for me!!! Literally 5 minutes before reading Chump Lady, I sent a photo to my kids showing me under a cozy throw with my puppy, coffee and morning TV. The photo was labeled “this is what happiness looks like”.
I have the best new job in the world – being a volunteer nanny for my new grandchild – and my life is filled with wonderful friends who make up for all the family I lost in the divorce. I wake up every morning feeling energized and blessed. I’m content with what others may look at as a very simple life. I own my own home which is the perfect size and style for me. I live within my means and find joy in all the small stuff. I left my ex in the dust a while back. I will always have questions as I was just dumped. While the cheating, lies and divorce are part of me, none of it defines me.
If I happen to meet someone along the way, I am open to it. The only difference is that I stopped actively seeking a partner. The hope of possibly finding love remains. I just take one day at a time and leave myself open to all possibilities.
I hope every “senior” Chump can find their own level of happiness and contentment because the peace that comes with that is beautiful!
I am not way close to feeling that way about being single. I am told that I will eventually get the Meh. I get frustrated when X contacts me and frustrated when X doesn’t contact me. I think many night can I do this one more day?
I know in my brain that I do not have a choice because I have children who depend on me but still…he left, got a new life, new truck, a cheating, home wrecking whore, and no responsibilities and I am left behind to clean up the mess.
My teenage daughter did not do well with DDay (8 months out) and is now in a residential treatment facility for teens. I truly HATE going to therapy there, and multi-family therapy and supervised visitation. I know in this brain of mine that it is what is best for her.
I feel like every time I go it about “top this” among the patients. Who has the worst problems. I want to put my lying, cheating, home wrecking, crazy, selfish, self centered, selfish, immature, did I say selfish X out of my life but I get to keep talking about it. UGH…Why can’t she see him for what he is?
It is so draining and my cheater X isn’t allowed much contact because he is so screwed up in the head and believes he has nothing to do with her problems. I am so tired all the time. My job is great and supportive but it is still job and it is hard and time consuming, the other children are hard and need attention. How could he justify that “his happiness” was more important then these children that he created and has been trusted with? Did I say I was tired?
How can he just walk away and believe in any sort of way that it was okay? Leave me fine….live your kids you are not a real man or father!
It would be so nice to have somebody to help and care about my children who loved me.
Amen to this
Yay Rebecca! I’m with you. Five years post discard, and absolutely treasuring being my own person every day.
I’m never lonely, because I have so many wonderful people in my life–kids and grandson, siblings, friends both new and old. I always have someone to do things with and to share experiences.
I’m not dependent on anyone, not beholden to anyone, and don’t have to consider anyone else when I make decisions. After being coupled up with some guy or other since I was 17, this is a total breath of fresh air. No drama, no angst, no hurt feelings, no red flags, no narcissism, no neediness, no having to baby a fragile male ego.
Since I’ve been single, I’ve been pursued and wooed by a few very good men, even at my age (63). I’ve rejected all of them. I find I’m just not interested any more. Maybe I will be again some day. It’s been a long, hard haul, but I’ve done such a good job learning how to take care of myself I find I don’t need anyone else in this dynamic right now. (And never in a million years would I trade places with any of the married women I know. Most of them either don’t have a great life, or just aren’t happy people. Or both.)
I think it helps that I’m old. I might not feel this way if I were 20 years younger. Then I might feel more up to facing the challenge of trying to trust again. But I don’t think the challenge is a man shortage, the challenge is having confidence you can identify the good ones.
Champchump, I’m with you 100%. I turned 60 last September. My ex left in 2010 and the divorce was final in 2011. I was with my lovely Dutchman for 6 years but we are no longer a couple, although still friends. And I’m perfectly happy alone. In fact, quite out of the blue, the local farmer asked me out three weeks ago. I almost fell over but had to explain to him that I wasn’t looking as I was more than happy with my life and not looking to change it. And more to the point and just like you, I actually don’t envy any married friends. Maybe some are happy but seemingly not the ones talking to me, so I’m done. Love my life as it is!
Love your attitude Rebecca! If that isn’t Meh (or even better than Meh), I don’t know what would be.
“…your hard work might get you a Leer jet.”
LOL.
Well, 6-pack abs might get you a leer, but big, big money is usually how one acquires a Lear jet.
That tickled my funny bone. I figure many of us on this site are familiar with King Leers. 😉
Pascale – listen to Tracy. Go forth and be PASCALE. Enrich the life you have and enjoy it. Maybe a full-time male companion with whom you nick well will come along but it shouldn’t change your pursuit of enriching your own life.
Proofed it. I need to put those donations towards an editorial staff. 😉
Tracy, you use those donations and treat yourself!!! You have literally saved my life, through this site. Thank you!!
I’m printing this out and posting it in my home office.
5 years since d day. Im going to do things i enjoy, and if the universe sends me someone, great, if not at least I had a great time. I’m tired of giving my energy to the cheater, even if it’s just real estate in my head.
All done.
Life is for living not waiting for next year. I may not get that.
I love reading these every morning.
Thank you Tracy, you have been on a journey with me and you didn’t even know it!
I’m a single guy! Lol. 6’ 3” (I’ve shrunk lol) 250lbs, (I could lose a few pounds but people maybe politely say I don’t look that heavy) will be 45. I make $85,000, government job with a pension (and 20% ofmy cheating Xs pension lol) 2kids,8&12, blue eyes, brown hair, sardonic humor, liberal/progressive, love movies and books, watch the Super Bowl and maybe a few other games but not into book. Love museums, history, art museums, want to see more live theatre, getting into cooking, make great omelettes (maybe in the fourth of fifth date ????lol) like classic rock, 90s grunge. I can brew my own beer but I’d easily orders Bud or Blue Moon. Find me in NJ.
Look in the forums and see if there is a chump group near you in New Jersey. You need a peer support group more than you need dating at this point. I know here in Colorado, the ChumpNation group has saved my butt numerous times, and we all look out for each other and give each other feedback on our dating prospects, dealing with our exes, and just life in general. You need to have a posse. From there, there is safety in numbers. That will help you when you are finally ready to date. If such a group doesn’t exist, form one. That will be an excellent exercise in growth anyway.
I’m in NJ too…. I’m probably not ready to date but maybe a beer and some chump company 🙂
Betrayed and Confused, I’ve been reading your posts here, and honey, you are SO NOT READY TO DATE YET.
Please, please take a break and do some healing first. When you’re finally happy to be on your own, you’re ready to date again.
Tracy.
Set aside one day or topic For each of us to post what our singles ad would say. Just for fun.
????
There’s Friday.
I hate this Pistons game, but the guys won’t change it with 10mins left and tied up. It smells like a locker room and how I ended up in Michigan is beyond me.
….
I’ve been reluctant to bring up dating as this site as it is so laser-focused on the newly-chumped.
I started dating post divorce long-before I was ready. In many ways I’m still not ready to commit to another life partner just yet. But I’ve been learning a lot about myself in the comforts of adult life as I understand it. And the woman I’ve been seeing has been cool about where I’m at.
I know great single guys who are as every bit messy as anyone else. I’ve met and crushed on women who turn out to be every bit as messy as anyone else & I’m glad to have missed-out.
It’s a messy soup of people. But I agree; happiness is an internal joy that comes first, something I’ve felt lucky to hold on to – if even a tiny bit – during the shittier times.
The trick in Michigan is finding something you love about every season… you may even get to enjoy all of the things you love in the same week. LOL
Part of what makes us Chumps is, we usually look on the bright side of life, putting emphasis on appreciating what we have, rather than expending any meaningful energy dwelling on what we don’t have. (That’s what cheaters do.)
Funny (and sad) how this can easily go out the window when it comes to our own dating/partnership status.
Try as best you can to get back to the goodness, decency and appreciation that makes you a catch in the first place.
I was talking to my 12 year old about her dad and I divorcing. I told her to not look at the bad but let’s talk about the good. The trips we will take, the Mommy and me time we get to have. It was fun some of the things we talked about. She is only 12 and struggling but after that talk she wasn’t so sad. She gets some things. It was neat to see you say chumps look at the good… cheaters the loss. You couldn’t be more right!
You’re a good mom. ????
It’s a matter of taking action. Are you putting yourself out there? I can’t find you if your sitting at home. Are you on the dating sites? Involved in social activities that you would enjoy with your potential partner such as a book club, church groups, mountain biking, etc..? As Chump lady said, set some boundaries for yourself. Make a list of what your looking for in a guy. Learn to weed through the bad people. Most importantly make sure you are the person who you are looking to attract. If you have standards, the guy your looking for has standards too.
I’ve been re-reading Cloud and Townsend, ‘Boundaries’. Found this p 153 – it’s for Christians, but you can just as easily read ‘he’ for ‘she’ in the first paragraph.
“What does [dating] mean for the person whose boundaries have been injured? Often, she brings immature, undeveloped aspects of her character to an adult romantic situation. In an arena of low commitment and high risk, she seeks the safety, bonding and consistency that her wounds need. She entrusts herself too quickly to someone whom she is dating because her needs are so intense. And she will be devastated when things ‘don’t work out.’
This is a little like sending a three year old to the front lines of battle. Dating is a way for adults to find out about each other’s suitability for marriage; it’s not a place for young, injured souls to find healing. This healing can best be found in nonromantic arenas, such as support groups, church groups, therapy, and same-sex friendships. We need to keep separate the purposes of romantic and nonromantic friendships.”
I like this book overall, but this seemed very timely. You need a pretty thick hide and a pretty high level of self-knowledge to go back out there, and even then, it’s not a necessity if you find that what you already have is enough.
And yeah, I’d feel sick if I thought that Chump Nation was only for pairing up again. I love that plenty of Chumps have decided they’re happy on their own, with good friends and dogs and lives and kids.
Boundaries are important, real important…if I knew them better I would have kicked my ex to the curb along long long time ago. Saved myself a lot time and money
Four and a half years out from Dday, and I just broke up with a guy I’ve been dating two years. He was SO GREAT to me. In the beginning. Chumped again, though, and I’m so angry with myself. I’m happy to say, I at least seem to have grown a spine. And for the first time, I’m starting to feel like being by myself might be not just okay, but actually fantastic. Starting to feel that mightiness I’ve been waiting for. What’s it like to not NEED anyone?? I’m getting there. And I really think it took round 2 of chumpdom to really see what a low view I’ve had of myself. Thank you for creating this space, Chumplady!!
That’s the challenge. We have to learn to spot people who are “so great” because they are hunting for prey.
I date someone I call a “very kind man.” But I would never, ever live with someone again. I like my alone time. I have control of my own money. I control my own TV remote. No one is mean to me inside my own walls. And after a lifetime of “mean,” that’s so important to me. There was a guy I really clicked with when started dating, but he told me he has a “mean streak,” and I knew right there we could be friends but nothing more.
When we NEED a partner, we are vulnerable to users. When we are solid on our own feet, we can take our time and get to know whether someone belong in our life and on what level.
When we need a partner we are vulnerable…
Exactly this!!!
I ended up not only a chump – but overlooking some red flags and moving in with Mr.Fantsdtic after my divorce because I was alone, living in a city I hated and I felt it was better than…
I moved out secretly one weekend after he beat the stuffing out of me. Not so fantastic.
Funny story. I bought my own business and a total fixer upper year round cottage near the beach and I moved out. I did this for ME.
Once I was happily doing my own thing, something happened. A client who I have known for over 5 years ( a fellow chump – very shy ) brought me furniture from his deceased Mom’s house ( I walked away from much of mine ).
He has not dated in over 10 years. He brought me flowers. I really had no expectations and continued to work on myself.
Guess who I am dating ?!?
No one is mean to me inside my own walls. PREACH! This really resonated with me today.
I wouldn’t even be friends with somebody that admits they have a mean streak. Who needs that in a supposed friend ?
LovedaJackass, I needed to hear this <3
And for the people who think the first or second person they meet after getting back in the dating pool is going to be “the one”–stop that right now. What are the odds that the first person I see when I walk out of Home Depot is going to be “the one”? The goal needs to be to educate yourself about what kind of person is right for you and how to spot those that can’t make the grade.
I think it would be fine to have a dating site, so long as there are Red Flag pop-ups triggered by certain phrases on all inbox messages… like the paperclip thing with eyes but a red flag with rolling eyes. It doesn’t remove anything, just rolls its red-flag eyes near the suspicious crap in question.
We just need a comprehensive list to start:
grew apart
overlap
open-minded
pic for pic
you got a purdy mouth
wife is a bitch
no one understands me like you do
child support is ridiculous
whore
bitch
slut
boring
pina coladas
walks on the beach
evolved
man’s man
jealous
whatsapp
separated
almost divorced
And so on… because otherwise, be confident that you’ve helped us fix our pickers in general, not just for romantic partners.
Another big one is drama. If they describe their ex as a drama queen or say they don’t want to deal with drama, it’s usually them who created the drama by being assholes. What they are looking for is somebody who will tolerate their behavior, and anyone who won’t is “too much drama”.
Yes to this. The first guy I dated post-divorce (he was from Michigan!) declared how much he hated drama and conflict. No, what he really hated were the consequences of the drama and conflict that he caused.
He cheated on me very early in the relationship (and I’m sure after that) – his teenage daughter was the one to tell me a couple years after it happened. Things did not go well after that.
Yet he made sure to tell me when we broke up that he ‘had never been on such an emotional rollercoaster before.’ Dude, you were the architect of that roller coaster.
Oh, and the same guy who hated drama also accused me of not ‘being jealous enough.’ ??
It’s complicated
kik
psycho ex
pineapple
restraining order
By all means add something like “above all appreciates honesty”, ‘ (wo)man of transparency and integrity’
Also, any claims that they’re “tired of mind games” and “want someone who won’t give them the runaround.”
Found that on my ex’s dating profile after I left him and laughed my ass off. Their projection is crazy!
WhatsApp isn’t necessarily a red flag. It’s used in Europe a lot for legitimate reasons. So if you’re dating an import I wouldn’t worry about it.
Although what’s app is how I found out my sync was taking an expensive vacation with someone else – all other texts had been deleted
you had me at purdy mouth
thanks!
PS the problems I have had recently are
1) that nagging feeling that X has “won” because he’s remarried and has more money. Like, on paper, he looks as if he won, I guess.
And
2) I detest the feeling I wasted my life, living with and giving someone – 35 years of my life. That is a long time although X managed to discard our entire lives & kids. In fact, his own father has not reached out to me OR his only grandchildren for 3 years!
I mean, WTF??)
So yeah, I may have been married to a disordered man from a disordered family and only when I was hospitalized in a stupor, did it all become, ironically, painfully, clear.
Today I’m healthy enough to Not fear being alone – as much as I fear being with the wrong person,
Hey – Dr1stwife – if his father doesn’t want to see his grandkids then it sounds like a generational dysfunction – you can’t do anything about that – thankfully you are definitely a strong person
Another one for the end of the list: “roommates”
As in, my spouse and I are living like roommates.
Um.. unfortunately some really are ‘roommates’!!!
Believe me!!!
Roommates, as in I’m a serial cheater spending marital funds on fuckimg strange.
Welcome to my life.
And add “bat shit crazy”. Seems like I remember an article about that one.
I want to add to the list of Red Flags
when a parent doesn’t see his kids often (OR at all) AND especially when the kids are older,
but blames OTHER people for their poor relations with their offspring:
“Ex turned them against me/Won’t let me see them/they’re a lot like the ex” — How can you date that?
ANOTHER red flag – “I have a GREAT relationship with my kids …we don’t see each other often and we just can’t get our schedules to match up — but I talked to them at Christmas…”
The other Red Flag is when the person says they’re close to their kids “but the kids were mad at me for a few years there….NOW we’re all good”
= the kids hated the shit sandwich of discarding/OW/OM, but in the end chose to have some form of relationship with a shitty parent.
The Narc converts this reluctant but primal need for a parent in one’s life, as validation of their perfectness.
I will not date someone who isn’t on loving speaking terms with their kids over 14 (in case the young ones really do have an alienating parent – uncommon but not unheard of).
I would not date someone who doesn’t try WITH ACTIONS to see his kids often
Obviously I would not date a cheater. But somehow I’d have to know they were cheaters, which is the problem in this whole scenario.
HOW to know??
\
That’s not always true. I was a true victim of a psychopath bi-polar (diagnosed). He’s turned both my grown children, both families, old school mates, and people we went to church with for year against me. I found out his smear campaign started as soon as I married him. His mother was bi-P and schizophrenic, in and out of homes his whole life. He started telling everyone from the beginning of the marriage…”I think I married my mother”……”Now I know what my dad went thru”….I’m very afraid of her”…..”I’m afraid to leave because of the kids”…..so many different versions. For 25 years….NO ONE TOLD ME……
It’s destroyed my life, my relationship with both kids and many others. I’ve never seen my only grandchild due to his lies. He told me that the day he saw me hold my DD for the first time and saw what she meant to me was the day he decided I’d never have her. His manipulation goes back that far. It’s unbelievable what he’s done.
A high level psychopath can flip the script on his victim and ruin a life. I’m living proof. Please know the person before you judge just because they aren’t in their children’s lives. I was tested for personality disorders at the same time he was. I was deemed ‘one of the sanest people I’ve ever met…your only problem is you’re married to him’ by the tester. I’ve passed all the tests with zero problems except damage done by the narc.
One of my best friends was a missionary married to a minister. He did the same thing to her. He was finally arrested and sent to prison for molesting a child. Just now people are saying ….maybe it wasn’t her….
We can’t win with their lies. We don’t need to be further damaged by people condemning us by some set of criteria that may have an entirely different cause.
I believe you. Curious, how did the psychopath score on that test? Did they ‘pass’ as normal?
no.
we were told that 5 min after evaluating his tests that my name was put on a list that the police would check hospitals and morgues daily for my name the rest of my life and he would be picked up immediately if I was at either. the meeting went downhill from there. I cant tell the rest but it was progressively worse for the next hour. He can’t tell my grown kids due to hippa laws. I still have zero proof, but 2 detectives asked me a series of questions, said he WAS that bad, and taught me situational awareness and the laws in my state concerning how to handle it. I carry one if their cards with me e everywhere and I’m ri contact immediately if I spot him in the area
on the way home from the meeting ex looked at me and said “quite frankly I’m getting afraid of you….I think I’m going to need a restraining order”. I was speechless. you can’t make this crap up.
if I had known what would be said I’d have hidden a tape recorder, but who thinks like that? I had NO idea it would be anything like that.
I’ve wished a 1000 times I’d raised that conversation and the where he confessed so much to me…but I was a wife wondering why he behaved like he did, believing him that it was my fault…I never saw either thing coming…
…and people tell me to get on dating sites…ohhellno!!!
Then what are these mysterious tests that can detect a disordered person? Because my cheating ex is really good at mimicking a human. I wish there were one of those tests like in Bladerunner where they ask a few questions and observe changes in the subject’s pupils to determine if they’re a replicant. I MIGHT consider online dating if there was a site that vetted people through one of those. But probably not.
He did a series of personality tests.
DOCTOR’s1stWife&Kids, I would add a caveat to your comment on people who don’t have a relationship with their adult children. One of my good friends, who was divorced years ago, has a daughter who refuses to see her. But this girl believed her narcissistic father who lied about everything. I believe this is a case of parental alienation. My friend has made repeated attempts over the years to connect with her daughter to no avail. She is heartbroken.
Same here with my son. Dreadfully sad. Thanks for pointing this out.
Character. You look for kindness, not niceness. Generosity but not grandiose “look at me” generosity. You pay attention to how someone approaches problems. How they talk about other people, how they talk about their work , how they talk about the past. Do they learn from mistakes?Can they admit mistakes? Do you feel comfortable changing a plan if something comes up? Do you see flashes of someone who is intolerant? Critical? Controlling?
And take a look at yourself. Are you so deprived of love and kindness that you can mistake the courtship from a predator for actual “love”? You can’t find a partner who is healthy and whole if you have your own aching void that needs to be filled.
When observing how they solve problems DO NOT jump in with chumpy fixer powers. This requires practice.
In my experience it begins with complaints. Learn to say, “Sorry to hear that.”
LovedeJackass
All you listed-
Character. You look for kindness, not niceness.
-Kind to elderly people and children, going all the way to accommodate others
Generosity but not grandiose “look at me” generosity.
-Yes, checked
You pay attention to how someone approaches problems. How they talk about other people, how they talk about their work , how they talk about the past.
Checked; problem solver and not badmouthing others
Do they learn from mistakes?Can they admit mistakes? Do you feel comfortable changing a plan if something comes up?
-Check check check…
Do you see flashes of someone who is intolerant?
Not really
So, after 15 years with extremely manipulative, covert narc- who was/ is fooling EVERYONE around… I ended up with PTSD and knowledge that when I was “ playing house and creating home for him and later our children”
He was playing with CL, hookers, hundreds of women, many met in real life for “ dating and fuck” …. porn etc.
Mask started slipping when I started asking questions about strange incidents and behavior…. ????just be careful ladies…. they can be really convincing
Truth LAJ
This helps me weed out potential dates too…it’s a clear red flag when they don’t see their kids
Plus if they divorced for any reason except cheating or abandonment….it’s usually a big big red flag too.
All those are so very true…
“All people (unless they are sociopaths) want to bond with other people. We crave intimacy and connection. I do think we should all be open to connection with others.”
I feel I must now be on my way to being a sociopath. Because of him. Because of how he treated us. I won’t because I’m decent and optimistic but it does worry me that I can’t trust so how can I love?It’s like he took his issues and dumped them all on me. Chumped and dumped! (No, I kicked his ass out…)
Do folks maltreatment of others result in psychological issues? Yes.
I am at this point not interested in dating. I am not at all ready. My mother who is 85 never remarried after my Dad died when I was eight. She dated but never wanted to get married. I asked her why she never wanted to marry again. She said that she has no interested in marriage. She enjoys being single. She is not told what to do. She learned that she can live without a man and be happy. A man does not define you. Being happy and comfortable with yourself is what is most important. Yes, in the future I might entertain dating. But for now I am happy being cheater free.
I’m with her. I am dating a guy now and I am happy to continue doing so as long as he is but I like the fact that he goes home (or I go home) most nights and I have no interest in marriage. It is nice to have the occasion overnight but I am not interested in actually living with someone who I may not be able to please or who may not be able to please me.
I was chumped @ 59; 2 years ago. I could not imagine repartnering. No more dickheads; this is my time now. I refuse to be a nurse or a purse; or a quasi mother figure to another incompetent partner. I understand someone younger partnering again but for many of the older ones; it’s an absolute lottery of health wealth and mobility. I am really happy on my own.
Ozzie,
That is exactly how I feel! “I refuse to be a nurse or a purse”. At my age, 67 that is about the only thing that will come my way so I don’t waste time with fantasies.
Yep I like em to go home too. I take care of my own car, cut my own grass and have no interest in scrubbing their skidmarks!
I’ve had the experience of being next twice to women meeting up with the guys they were texting on dating sites.
I eat out alone and the couples were seated next to me both times. I don’t listen in on conversations but I heard both times saying to the effect of finally getting to meet them after all the texting.
I intently listed to the questions the guys asked the women and one thing kept coming up. They wanted “demanded” to know if they would go off with them “to Europe” the second guy asked his date “if she would go to his mothers condo on the beach”.
The thing I noticed is both these men demanded they answered them. The condo guy was begging her to spend thanksgiving with him. (2 months) in advance.
One woman was a teacher and the men all love that and she was pretty. The second one traveled a lot. She drank water and was judging him and clipped her answers.
The first man was older and looked to be well off. I was dining alone in expensive restaurant. He was going on how his wife died 7 years ago. Lots of other bs.
The second guy was right handsome but came across as needy and dependent on dates to save face.
I have no idea if either went out with the guys on a date but it was just gross to me these guys asking first and upfront on travel. They didn’t really have any talks it was just straight to the point and boring.
So anyway I can see what a meet up date looks like. I haven’t been on a date yet. I need to lose some weight and just get out there. My biggest fear is having another loser jerk like my ex. He still gives me nightmares and daymares. Horrible memories of it all.
If anybody knows of a good column to read for recovered from divorce and dating and life after please post it. It’s hard to find where good women are doing better after divorce. Not just dating. Just all over better.
I want to start over my life this year and just forget all the horrible past. I want to enjoy being 59 with the right guy if that’s possible and make new good friends. Do things. Travel. Fix up. Fun!
It’s been almost 5 years divorced and coming up to six years since I found the text ex sent to neighbor on his birthday wanting a nude picture of her.
Time to move forward.
Beetle,
Read all the old CL columns about being mighty – there are many! Read forum posts going all the way back about post-cheater life.
There are SO many success stories right here to give you an idea of what a truly happy, cheaterless life looks like, with or without partners.
I personally went through hospitalizations and sheer hell after DDay. Will never forget the judge telling me that my then-husband was a sociopath and one of the worst she had seen in all her years on the bench. Now I am happy, healthy and at peace. I’ve dated and not dated.
All the I nspiration you need is is right here on CL. There are years of posts to guide you!
I have been reading them. I see the nice ones. I don’t want to quit reading chumplady but sometimes I think it traumatises me over in some spots.
It has also made me scared of men. That the cast offs are so much like my ex.
But I am lonesome but no way desperate. I think I’m just letting too much time slip away from fear.
These are the good years if used wisely. I don’t want to be stuck married again but have a good boyfriend. Go on a fun date.
I hear you on feeling traumatized. Lately, I’ve been taking long breaks from Chump Lady and other abuse/infidelity support groups. I think there comes a point when we don’t need this anymore, and sticking around to reread and rehash the past does more harm than good.
My experience, anyway. Other people’s mileage will certainly vary. But I do find it helpful to focus on my new life these days.
That the judge told your ex he was a sociopath. Amazing! Yea you Rebecca – always appreciate your comments.
Just weighing in on this as a guy-Chump who quite possibly was removed from the reserve a couple of months ago. Still finding my way there.
I live in a small village outside a major metro centre. Counting myself, there are 5 mature bachelors that I can think of without trying. One widower, two and possibly three chumped, and one guy who just has always lived alone two doors down from me. He’s rather shy but a really nice guy.
I think though that part of it is that even for me, I really had no interest in re-coupling for some time after being chumped. I originally “thought” that I did but I was absolutely not ready and it’s good that the much younger single mother that I asked out changed her mind after initially saying yes. I’m 3 years out now.
Another part of it too I think is that guys to have a tendency to date younger and prettier if they can. I certainly was looking in that direction and dated a very nice lady in her mid-40s for a while last fall. She wasn’t ready to date though it got pretty obvious quickly.
But last summer I was flirting with a nice lady in the paint aisle (not the produce aisle – that one was married) and we somewhat hit it off but I left not to be seen again until I enabled my POF profile and she saw me there.
She’s 57 to my 55, has boobs that sag because 4 kids and gravity are a thing and has a kind and caring heart.
But those other bachelors are still out there generally just living their lives happily and quietly.
BT
Really, I think men (and women too) usually do better when they stick to partners within a few years of them in age. Your own generation is just more likely to “get” you. The same goes for women. The trick is to find people your own age who are as active as you are and have whatever level of libido you need (and can handle).
Sadly, my ex left for a women his own age. She is still messed up, but the karma bus may be delayed. If she were younger I doubt they would still be together now.
My new partner is my own age within 6 months…we were in the same class in 6th grade
One thing I’ve learned from working with a lot of elderly people: the ones who are happy have a few things in common. Most important of all is adaptability.
If you think there is such a thing as a perfect soul mate or one and only one true love, you will be unhappy. Life is not a Disney movie. We are not divided into princesses and Prince Charmings.
If you think there is only way path in life that is right for you, you will be unhappy. No one ever gets the exact life they wanted. If they did, they’d be bored.
If you are rigid in how you define your worth (e.g., a job/money/spouse/kids), you will be unhappy. How you define your worth should be something that evolves as you age and your circumstances change. Sometimes, survival is enough.
If you define your worth by external metrics such as money or by social approval, you will be unhappy. Those games are rigged and the rules and goals change the minute too many people accomplish the goal. What value is a Fendi purse to a NYC socialite if Deb from Omaha can have one too? So, on to the next way of showing superiority.
If you think that God has sent you one path and only one path and you have no control over it, you will be unhappy. Whatever your beliefs, humans have free will for a reason. Use it.
If you think you are too old, too introverted, or too scarred to change and make your life better, you will be unhappy. Some of the happiest people I’ve met were Holocaust victims who had everything taken from them. Everything but their lives. They kept going.
If you think you have to be perfect to be happy, you will be unhappy. Self-forgiveness is as important as self-reflection and self-improvement. Realizing you are human and that “good enough” is truly good enough is liberating.
If you think that what others think of you is critically important, you will be unhappy. Individual humans can be sane, rational people. In a group, even a small one, we behavior illogically. Value the opinions of friends and family members who are allies. Ignore the rest.
If you think you have to be on a hunt to find the right partner in the right place, you will be unhappy. You have to make yourself available and work on yourself. But being on an active hunt can often hurt you.
If you have a very set idea on what a partner should look like, you will be unhappy. The happiest couples I know ended up marrying someone who wasn’t what they thought they wanted on paper in terms of ethnicity, looks, height, job, etc. But the core of the person, beliefs and behaviors, were excellent.
I’d also recommend joining a social or charitable organization. If you are looking for quality men, volunteering at a museum, hospital, etc. can help you meet new people you otherwise wouldn’t come in contact with. Ask yourself: What type of man do I want? Where is he likely to be? That may be a tractor pull or a gallery opening. Doesn’t matter. But simply being out in public in places where you can talk to people will make a world of difference.
Also, you are likely to meet the right kind of dudes at places where they have to roll up their sleeves and do actual work without accolades. Volunteering at an institution where men just write out checks is different than one where everyone has to show up at 5 am on a Saturday to build a house for someone.
My ex cheater narc recently started delivering Meals on Wheels. I’m sure he’s doing it to make himself look good and possibly feel better about himself. Like, hey, doing this good deed for these folks will make up for all the shitty things I did to my partner and blowing up our 21 year marriage.
Your post is one of the best I have read on here. I never had a check list. High standards. Looks did not matter to me (just that I would be attractive to them and them to me). I never thought about dating a black woman. Not prejudice in the least. But I saw her inner qualities and that is what attracted me to her. She is a chump also. She never was attracted to a white man, but saw my inner qualities. We were flexible in our expectations. She is not perfect, but perfect for me. Life is full of compromises. I would have never dated a woman younger then me and she is 8 years younger and I didn’t hold that against her (I have only dated women my age or older). I went outside my box to find a good partner. We will be getting married later this year.
You just described all of the reasons why my ex isn’t happy. I will admit that in many ways I am “ex light” but I do at least know how to count my blessings and be grateful for the many I have even if, as Tracy says, I didn’t get them all.
My biggest problem is when I keep striving to be perfect because I fear I am not worthy of the blessings I do have. When people praise me I feel like a fraud. How screwed up is that? I am working on doing a better job of recognizing my self worth. My goal is to strive for improvement while accepting that I am imperfect and that’s ok. I long ago learned to accept imperfection in others and love around it.
I get it. I struggle with wanting to be a perfectionist. It’s at my core.
I have learned there is true beauty in imperfection. The Japanese have a concept wabi-sabi, which addresses this. Reading a bit about it might help.
Try forcing yourself to accept “good enough” on low stakes matters, then move on to other areas.
Also, part of being a perfectionist can be about the illusion of control. Self- improvement and holding oneself to high standards is good. Perfectionism and controlling behavior is not. Even if it is extreme self-controlling behavior. The line is not always easy.
Jedi hugs.
I will open with the fact that I have some dear friends who found lasting love post-chumped with men they met through online dating so I know it is possible. Some of those friends were even 50+ years old at the time. It just doesn’t work for me. I’ve tried numerous dating sites off and on over the past 3 years and I’ve hated every minute of it. I’m an geeky, book nerdy introvert with five large, uncouth dogs running around my house. For some reason, men don’t seem to find that appealing and I am just not good at trying to market myself to my obviously very tiny niche pool of men. The key to online dating, particularly in the over 50 category, is apparently lots of patience and the willingness to wade through a ton of frogs to find that one prince. Have you seen the pictures on the internet of the poisonous frogs invading a town in Florida? Like that. It’s like wading through that. I’m just too tired to put that much effort into it. So I finally decided to delete all my dating profiles and enjoy my life as it is. If the Universe decides to drop a good man across my path (please set him down GENTLY, Universe) I will welcome his presence in my life. In the meantime, I’ll be over here trying to keep my dogs out of the mud pit my backyard has become during a remodel on my house, and planning my garden. 😀
The right man would love your book nerdy introverted self along with the uncouth dogs. But maybe you do what I do and keep your house your own space.
Actual dating can be fun if you go out with people you like. Throw the ones that don’t fit back in the pool.
Oh yes, I agree. My space is my own and always will be. I would like to have a companion but a roommate? Nah, I’m good. I adore being autonomous after 30 some years with a control freak.
Yes, keep your own space. I found someone and we both continue to inhabit our own homes. Neither of us “has” to be the center of the universe so it works that we can function alone and be happy even though we truly enjoy each others company.
I met mine at Match.com, but I was just lucky. I’m 60, and men my age were generally looking for women in the 35-45 range. I knew I wanted a youthful man, so that even lessened my odds. But I had made up my mind I wouldn’t settle, and I would be happy with my new life whether alone or paired. I made plans for my new house, my hobbies, my interests, new friends and possibly a job. As I say though, I was fortunate and found the best man on the planet. I wish everyone the same luck.
I read an article that quoted the folks at OKCupid; they said that men who are around age 50 on their site are looking for women whose average age is 28.
This is why the 60-year-old guys might be successful in getting those 35-40 year old women. I don’t want to date a guy that much older than I am (44), but guys my age are apparently looking for women almost half their age. I can’t imagine dating a guy that young; I would feel like I were his mother. *yuck*
This is part of why I don’t date. I feel as though there are too many people out there who are too focused on youth and beauty instead of more important, enduring qualities.
I’m in my mid 40’s … no offense, but why would I date 60+ man?
If someone in his 60’s looks for a ???? wife or a much younger gf ????there is an issue there…
Normal, kind, loving, funny man, secure in their skin have absolutely no issues with sagging boobs or wrinkled skin… they see more, than an outside….
When I entered the online dating pool there were a lot of men between 15 to 20 years older than me that got in touch. I was a little mystified at first that they believed we would have all that much in common as we were in completely different stages of life – I was last gasp planning to try for a baby and many of them had grown children. But I worked out quickly that these sort of men were generally (no offense to those who have a preference for a younger partner) not good prospects. Reading their profiles was often like reading a laundry list of disorder where it really was all about them and what they felt they were entitled to. I avoided them like the plague by then turning my profile to private and approaching men via the value of their profiles.
Being honest in my profile got me the best results. I didn’t mind scaring off the players and getting fewer responses because I got much better quality responses. In the end my online profile is how the guy who vaguely knew me but liked me in real life knew that I was available and ready to date.
Yeah, whenever I see those 60 something men who only want to date in the 35-40 range I can’t help but think “unless you are filthy rich and on death’s door, what on earth makes you think those women are going to want you?” It makes those men sound entitled which will make them seem even less enticing to anyone with the semblance of a good picker. If they don’t specify a desired age range they might get lucky if they are youthful enough but they shouldn’t just expect it. The good news is that it keeps the entitled creeps out of the dating pool for mature women looking for good men (real men, to entitled man babies). Sheesh.
On the flip side, I would love to see how many hits women actively seeking younger men get and are they all just looking to score a cougar for a few nights or are any of them actually decent men?
Oops. That should have been “not entitled man babies”
❤️
I almost spit out my coffee this morning reading this letter…. I met both my cheaters in a grocery store! I was working in the local grocery store while at school and cheater number one worked there too! Cheater number two actually ask me out while I was shopping in a grocery store years later! I actually keep my eyes down looking at my cart now when I shop, I am terrified someone will talk to me…. LOL
I am 4 years past D-day and 3 years divorce and actually only felt the urge to date right at the beginning. I would love to have a good man to share in the adventures of this next chapter in my life, but I am working to make it not necessary as I launch my two college age sons. I am enough right now.
Here’s my theory on why there seem to be so few available good single people — men and women both — over a certain age. It may not be comforting, but it may help people be more diligent.
In Western countries, there are oodles and oodles of single people in their late teens and early 20’s, good and bad alike. Very few of us get taken off the market that young, but that changes as we get older.
Everyone who is single over a certain age — let’s say early 32 or so — has a story as to why. Even the ahem, less-attractive people tend to find somebody to have a long-term relationship with by their late 20’s or so. So, single people beyond that point are either the few that missed out, or somebody who re-entered the market.
Let’s start with the retreads. Almost all marriages & LTR’s that end do so because one person (or both) has some deep-seated problems. Nice, decent people who can tolerate others don’t end commitments just on a whim. That means that drug addicts, cheaters, criminals, and other people with bad character are highly likely to be either dump someone else, or be dumped, because of their bad morals. You can add people with bad emotional or mental health issues to that, as well as people who are just spoiled/entitled/obnoxious. So, all these jerks and bad apples will make up a disproportionate part of the singles pool of people over 32. Think of it this way: even if all of us chumps are good and decent people, for every one of us that is now single, there is a cheating lout out there, as well.
Now, consider those people that have never been married. I hate to say this, but in my experience, they’re even more likely to be bad apples. There is a darn good reason why no one else has chosen to make a commitment to them, and it isn’t what they look like. For example, I went out with one of the most beautiful women in her 30’s I’ve ever known, and she had never been married. I kept wondering why no one else had put a ring on her. It turned out she had worked in organized crime in her 20’s, and though she had chosen to live a better life, she was still paranoid and distrustful of everyone after years of being surrounded by the worst people possible. I know a guy who is almost 40 who has been described by an ex-gf as “a 9 out of 10” physically, but he’s a disaster otherwise. Besides “instantly falling in love” with any woman that talks to him, having no job, living with his parents, refusing to leave the house for days, and constantly making inappropriate remarks to women, he’s just weird and unstable. He’s never been married. And yet, there are women lined up to date him.
My usual saying to people who are newly single at 35+ is:
“Everyone who’s over the age of 35 and single was either married to a jackass, or IS a jackass. You have to find out which.”
My point is that there really ARE more bad apples in the dating pool after you hit middle age. It’s just the way it is. So, instead of giving up, just be more careful with who you get involved with. It’s just not as safe as it was when you were 22.
On a positive note, for every now-single cheater that is now prowling the dating apps, there is another chump like you, waiting to find someone with a good soul.
Just in defense of the non-married middle thirties type: There is a very attractive woman at work who hasn’t been married, but in/out of relationships. I’m not sure why she isn’t married. I know she’d REALLY like to be. I get the sense she would be a great partner, but her “equal” hasn’t arrived yet.
I think she’d be a catch for the right guy.
So, I think there are middle-aged-non-married-winners out there.
but what do I know… i’m kinda new at this.
You make a good point about divorced people having issues. But let’s put that in perspective. In lots of ways, I was a catch. But my marital history was and is a huge red flag, marked with bad judgments and trauma that in many ways I caused for myself. In that sense, I think I would be a bad risk for nearly everyone, including myself. That’s one reason why I won’t remarry or cohabit with anyone, no matter how great. I’m 67 and not interested in doing that kind of building with another person or taking the risk of hurting anyone.
On the other hand, if I were 45 or even 50, with my newly fixed picker and my current state of happiness on my own, I’d be open to thinking about “dating with purpose.” But I would be cautious because I know that it’s a very small pool of people I could consider.
I just turned 49 and have never been married and definitely don’t consider myself one of the “bad apples”.
In my 20s and 30s, I was focused on my career. I wasn’t opposed to finding love, and I dated a handful of people, but I didn’t make finding a partner a priority.
When I was 39, I thought I had found a good man. We dated, got engaged, but never married because something wasn’t feeling right and I was waiting for him to pull his own weight before I’d start talking wedding plans. Then came Dday and I immediately kicked him to the curb. Nine years wasted 🙁
I understand my role in putting up with the financial and emotional abuse I allowed him to dole out to me. I’m working on this and in the mean time, I’m happy being single again.
Sisu,
The full version of my theory is that “everyone who is single over 35 was either in a long-term relationship with/married to a jackass, or IS a jackass.” 🙂 . I shortened “in an LTR” here to “being married” for the sake of simplicity. I know plenty of women who have been in a LTR with some guy for several years that wouldn’t ever give them a ring. So, I would say you were “in a LTR with a jackass,” you’re NOT the jackass :).
Thank you : )
True, Never married doesn’t mean never had a long term relationship. It also doesn’t mean that nobody wanted to marry them or that they were too picky, just smart enough not to make poor choices because society says you have to be married.
I might also point out that we are the ones who aren’t bad apples so that may give us an edge over the ones that are, at least for those who have good pickers.
On more of a downer note, that is probably why so many married people cheat with other married people when they decide they are no longer happy with their spouses. They know the singles dating pool is not well stocked so they want to secure new supply before leaving the marriage to hedge their bets. They go after other married people reasoning that if they are married they must be marriage material and would make good partners. The joke is no them, however, because anyone who cheats or is a partner to a cheater is clearly selfish, self-serving, dishonest, and lacking in empathy at best and likely has other issues to boot. It turns out there are a lot of screw ups in the married pool as well.
This was definitely my XW’s approach. I’m sure she was aware of the shallow pool of single men in our age bracket, so she pried a younger man out of his marriage before pulling the trigger on ours. It makes a lot of sense, assuming you don’t have any moral qualms about mate-poaching.
Errr … no. Most date married partners only because they believe that their married partner won’t leave the spouse so they’re believed to be safe and uncomplicated lay. After all, only 10% of people will divorce for their AP (not counting those who are divorced by their spouses when a spouse finds out about the affair).
Statistics also show that surprising number of people get married after they’re 60. So there’re plenty of potential partners around.
I personally have great understanding what kind of type of person I usually go for and what kind of red flags to look for. I can spot a shitty man in an instant now. Unfortunately, I keep meeting shitty men as potential partners even though I’ve got many amazing male friends, or the men I meet are just unsuitable (mostly too young for me) or they’re great but not interested in me. But I also quite like being single and I think Tracy is right, meeting the right person is a blessing not given to everybody.
It’s a matter of perspective, for every cheater there is a chump who is loyal with good character
My experience has been very pleasant
This.
Red Flag. Just had a 72 year old guy – educated PhD, two homes – send me a bathroom selfie. Asked me to selfie him back. Said my pictures on Our Time are enough. I am 60. Ugh. It’s ugly out there. Propositioned by married men. Not sure I have the stomach for this.
I am enough! For the most part I am very blessed and happy with my new life.
But agree, a lot of disordered out there. If I had not done the work on myself, never would recognize this stuff.
Onward.
A 72-yr old PhD sending a bathroom dick pic?! Wow. Just…wow. Not to mention, ewwwwww…
bathroom selfie must be on the “Red Flag” list…no no no
Never even in a committed relationship would I ever send genital or boob pictures to anyone in any form nor would I want to receive them. Too dangerous. Only someone I am willing to be with intimately in person gets to see me naked (and that’s the only kind I want to see naked either).
Glad I took back the sexy Polaroids of me in my mid thirties when I knew I was going to dump a narc alcoholic back in the day. And there will no smartphones in the vicinity next time I get naked with a man.
Yep, the people who get to see me naked are those who have EARNED that right through doing the work to create a loving, intimate relationship.
I have a lot to say about this as a decent law abiding single 59 year old man. I’ll start by asking the same exact question, where are all of the decent single women in my age range? Then I’ll answer by directing everyone to the best article I’ve ever read on how to find someone: https://www.chumplady.com/2019/01/how-do-i-fix-my-picker-2/ “how do I fix my picker” by the Chump Lady.
This article led me to this site on a google search I did of the same phrase. I have a bad picker. I keep falling for the liars, cheaters, been cheated on so I don’t trust you “damsel in distress” women. Four times I got my hopes up since my divorce and four times I’ve been crushed. I thought a) there are no good women out there b) you can’t trust anyone and c) why is everyone the same.
The majority of women I get attracted to are looking for “fun” and “men with an edge”. They married young, did not date much and by golly they are now in a position to have the time of their lives. Why do I keep attaching myself to these fuckwits? They lie, then they tell the truth, and then poof it is over.
The first lady I met had an affair with a work buddy from another state. They arranged to be at the same conferences together for 2 years and they’d hook up. They agreed to get divorced to marry each other. Both had little kids at home. She asked for the divorce, her fuckbuddy chickened out and left her. I met her online, we had a drink, she cried alligator tears over her life and I’ll be damned if I didn’t fall for her. Next was the one whose husband traveled a lot. She was going to ask for a divorce but he was diagnosed with cancer and she felt obligated to stay. After he died she went wild. When we met I got the sob story part not the wild part or the “I’m in counseling now to figure out why I sleep with every man I go out with” part, until a few months into the relationship. The third person cheated on her first husband after they had a fight, married her partner, had kids and couldn’t take the ho-hum of “life reimagined” so she cheated on him, got caught and divorced. Then she just decided to fuck around but all of that was unknown to me for 8 months. All the time I thought she was busy and couldn’t see me she was actually online dating. The final straw for me was a woman who was dating a man who never told her he was going to play the field. He told the field though. When she found out his “80% number one” as he described her was devestated and could not find a way to trust anyone when I met her. To her credit she carved out a life for herself before she met me but after 2 months she admitted it was too difficult and, oh yeah, Mr. 80% texted her.
So how do I fix my picker? I read the Chump Lady article over and over again. I read the things on this site, sometimes I write stupid comments, and I’m working on me. Because that picker article provided me with the best freaking advice I’ve gotten since my divorce. And since I pieced this all together I’ve become way more discerning and careful. There are a lot of fucked up stories by a lot of very well intentioned well meaning women out there – but that doesn’t mean I need to date them.
PS
all of the women I described above were well educated professional. I’ve had the hardest time reconciling that because you’d think they all lived in a trailer down by the river.
RVA, here’s what I saw when I read your post.
You write, “The majority of women I get attracted to are looking for ‘fun’ and ‘men with an edge’.”
There’s your red flag, on two counts. First, that’s a mismatch. You don’t want that kind of fun and “edge” means “disordered.” So finish your coffee on the coffee date and say you are looking for kindness and stability. Wish that drama queen luck and walk away.
Then there’s #2, Miss Promiscuity, giving you a “sob story” that covers up her fuckedupedness. Sob story—red flags. Lots of life debris that is nowhere near cleaned up. Plus manipulation. Plus she LEADS with her sob story so she’s looking for a chump to anchor to while she carries on otherwise. You want a woman who has her life in order. We can all work up a sob story; there are people here who have had massive trauma in their lives. And people like me who have been in therapy forever, peeling the onion layer by layer to build a life that’s sane and stable. But if I went on a date, there would be no “sob story.” I’ve put most of the pain to rest and am working hard on happiness and health. So if you hear a sob story, walk.
#3? She’s too busy for 8 months? Not for you. Lose her number.
The problem is you are attracted to these people. Are they beautiful, in a physical sense? Are they stacked? If you are attracted to their manipulative, sob story scenarios, then that means you shouldn’t be dating yet.
My dating success started when I stopped thinking men had to have advanced degrees or runners’ bodies or cooking skills. Most people you meet will have lots of tough stuff in their lives–divorce, death, illness, troubled kids. That’s life. What you are looking for is someone who can handle what life brings, someone who is grown up. You want your picker set to inner beauty, maturity, capacity for happiness. Not a hot mess.
Anybody that leads with a sob story about their life is a manipulator. My weekly reads are this website as well as Donna Anderson @ Lovefraud who calls it the “pity play”. Preach sisters, preach. Applies to panhandlers, friends that need a payday loan (“Nope !”) and people looking to run a romantic con on others.
Build a life that you’re content with, be self-supporting, know your worth and have a thick enough skin to be able to dump and be dumped if you’re out there dating.
RVA…if your name means what I think it means, I live just north of you.
My nowhusband was very picky and had actually stopped dating for 6 years when my father tracked him down and called “Are you single? Girlfriend? Do you remember my daughter? well her husband died and you should take her out”
He wanted someone whose intellect and decorum matched his and he kept being introduced to the “down by the river” sort. Im now glad that he didnt find anyone sooner because Im glad I have him !!
I have one more thing to add. Never ever take advice on how to date from a married person! Ever. Married people, whether they cheat or not, have the luxury of flirting in the store or bar or restaurant and then pulling it all back when they want to at any time. I’ve recently encountered ringless women at my health club in the way too tight lulamond outfits strutting around like they were fly fishermen looking to hook someone or some thing. Married people think everyone is available for everyone and easy to get if “you’d just give them a chance.” Married people watch all of the bullshit romance comedies and can’t distinguish a quasi-rape scene (Bad Moms when the guy puts her on the kitchen counter at the end of the movie) from a romantic jaunt in the kitchen because the movie scene was “so funny and romantic and wouldn’t it be nice if someone did that to me?” Yep, actually overheard that comment. Finally, don’t trust the idea that if you know someone they might know someone single and can set you up. Chances are they know someone with a disaster story.
What I’ve learned is to take care of yourself. Find your own happy. You don’t have to date until you are ready not when someone tells you you need to “put yourself out there” and creates an online profile for you. There is no magic sauce to any of this dating stuff.
I think that’s part of my dating issues (why I haven’t). Although he apparently didn’t think like a married person…I was MARRIED….
I don’t know how to date, or flirt, and the thought of trying to look ‘sexy’, act like a ‘catch’, ect not only baffles me, but it’s just not me. I like to be myself in a natural setting. I want to talk, not flirt. I want to discuss intellectual things, not my sexuality. I want to go to a movie or an art gallery, or go canoeing, not a nightclub. I want to drink a glass of tea on the porch, not preen with a martini. Everyone who has given me dating advice has said i need to ‘up my game’ and its being someone I’m not. I drove to Florida in December just to sit in the sand and write poetry. I had a blast. I found a sea food shop and watched the sun set on the ocean with a beer. It was comfortable. I bought a lemon and a lime tree to plant on the way home and peach cider. I make hot chocolate when I’m cold….ok….I DO put whipped cream and sprinkles on it to make it pretty..I am an artist after all…it damn well HAS to be pretty….
How do normal, in her 50s, gained a few pounds, wrinkles, and possibly an attitude from all the gaslighting and lies women date now? I’m normal. I’m everyday. I have an insane sense of humor (ask Tempest). I can think. I like cracker barrel. I like red lobster. I’m a seminary student and love to discuss the deeper things of that with a knowledge person who doesn’t have to be right or argue. I just a normal life.
My ex used to say I should have been born in the little house on the prairie days. That’s me. I grow tomatoes. I grow herbs. I quilt and crochet. I HATE the thought of dating sites. A friend showed me hers….it looked like a Walmart for people….nope…I just can’t. I’m doomed.
Everything you just wrote put in a dating profile, there is a guy looking exactly for that. Women who can have deep intellectual conversations are very rare. Go somewhere where you meet similar men. Like bible study, Art nights, art shows, gardening clubs, etc….
Thank you. I dont do online dating. right now I work. I did join several meetups. a writing group that I enjoy very much, a hiking group, a cooking group, and I am the organizer for a narc abuse group. it helps. I go to theology confeferences to meet like-minded people often. Living in a new state alone us very challenging. I never learned many if the life skills. my FOO was very neglectful and 25 years married to him kept me stunted. I’m growing up daily. it’s a weird place to be in.
Haha. I’ve been nagged by a married friend who thinks she has the keys to all happiness. I finally told her to fix me up then if she has all the answers and her response was that all the single men she knew who were age appropriate were “single for a reason” and weird.
Bingo
Married people who flirt?? No, thank you. That smacks of “keeping my options open” and boundary pushing.
Done.
Oh, RVA. I have learned, from bitter experience, that infidelity has NO boundaries when it comes to intelligence, degrees earned, wealth or lack-thereof. In fact, medical and other professional conferences appear to be favored venues for cheaters to hookup.
Every guy I have ever been attracted to is highly intelligent. Every one of them is also a narcissitic fuckwit.
I have learned this about myself. And there are two big take homes for me from the CL and CN, and I ask that you forgive the paraphrase and lack of authorship on the quotes: “When somebody shows you who they are, have the courtesy to believe them”, and “The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior”.
So if anybody every admits to cheating, for whatever reason, they are out of my pool of potential dates. And, at this point, I’m not looking to date at all. I need to be confident in my own ability to take care of myself.