4 Reasons Why Gaslighting Works

gaslighting

As manipulation goes, it doesn’t seem like there’s any reason gaslighting should work. It isn’t concealing the truth (lying) — it’s denying a reality you have actual evidence of.

Gaslighter Jim: Nice dog you have there.

Bob: That’s a pygmy goat.

Gaslighter Jim: What breed is it? Labrador? Newfie?

Bob: PYG-MY! Goat!

Gaslighter Jim: I don’t know why you’re getting so defensive about your dog. Anyone can see that’s a dog.

(Bob looks quixotically at his goat/dog.)

How damaged you are by this encounter really depends on how deeply invested you are in Jim.

If Gaslighter Jim is just a random stranger, you’re going to dismiss him as nuts. If, however, you’ve invested a lot of money with Gaslighter Jim, or he’s your father, or your favorite child, you’re going to give a lot more credence to his erroneous pronouncements.

But, but… Jim is unassailable! 

Also, if Gaslighter Jim has the trappings of authority, say he went to an Ivy League school and he wears nicer sports jackets than Bob, you may also doubt if goats are dogs.

But, but… Jim is man of intelligence and discernment! And has a perfectly folded pocket square!

At the end of the day, none of these things — your investment, your opinions about Jim, your hopes — changes a goat into a dog.

Dogs are dogs and goats are goats.

So, why is gaslighting a THING?

Are gaslighters just that good at their mindfuck craft, or are we really just gullible saps?

I think it’s a bit of both, but frankly, more of the latter. Gaslighting works because we want to believe.

Let’s break down our chump tendencies around gaslighting. (And don’t beat yourself up.   No one gets chumped without letting some real whoppers go by.)

Gaslighting works because:

You want to believe.

If Jim is your spouse, you’ve got some deeply invested sunk costs in believing him. Dog versus goat is pretty low-stakes poker. “That wasn’t a kiss you saw, I was swatting a bee off her face with my mouth” is higher stakes. You don’t want to believe Jim is a cheater. The evidence suggests otherwise.

Antidote: Trust your senses and the critical faculties God gave you.

You give this person power you shouldn’t.

Gaslighting is just a contest of narrative wills. The truth versus mindfuckery. You’re either going to let this fuckwit steamroll you with bullshit, or you’re going to stand up to it. Jim isn’t better than you. He may have a perfectly folded pocket square, but he’s NOT the final authority on goats. You have no idea what his pernicious agenda is behind saying a goat is a dog, but you’re a pretty damn good judge of both dogs AND goats, and your perceptions matter.

Antidote: Don’t give away your power. Does Jim really deserve this much benefit of the doubt?

It’s very upsetting to your world order if you accept the truth.

And don’t think Jim doesn’t know that. If you accept reality, you also much accept that Jim is a Bad Person who mindfucks. You will hit a wall of pain.

Antidote: Hit the wall of pain and then realize fuckwits are not worth your tears.

It’s exhausting.

As I said, it’s a contest of wills. And if you’re going to stand there and argue with Jim who is deeply invested in getting you to doubt yourself (for some evil Dog v. Goat scheme), you may just give up to keep the peace. (And let Jim go about his nefarious business.)

Antidote: Let go. Trust the truth. You know reality, it doesn’t matter what Jim says. The only winning move in mindfuck games is not to play.

How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Saying that a tail is a leg doesn’t make it a leg.

Abraham Lincoln
Subscribe
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

214 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
VulcanChump
VulcanChump
2 years ago

None of my own, but this list is very helpful for understanding things like Bad Vegan and the Tinder Swindler. I saw so many people online try to say they wouldn’t fall for that kind of thing, and their confidence seemed misplaced.

Dr. D
Dr. D
1 year ago
Reply to  VulcanChump

Probably wouldn’t fall for “it” in the duration of a 90 min movie, but if “it” happens after falling in love, years of investment (likely time and money and other sunk costs) – its a completely different story!. My gaslighter happened to be very tall and handsome and had a sexy voice. He was nothing short of amazing the first year and was I ever invested. After that the gaslighting was very very subtle. One particularly odd thing he’d do is thank me profusely for very small things like making one meal but when I did a pretty big favor (which often had to do with his kids because as a professor my career was a lot more flexible than his 15/ hr cabinet finishing job) such as pick up a sick kid from school or have them with me for almost an entire week during the summer he’d find something to criticize every. Single. Day. Rather than appreciate such as where’s the youngest’s jacket – why is she wearing this new one (it’s in the wash – this one is also cute), why did they eat this not that today. Always followed by a disapproving look. It weirdly broke me down and made me feel awful and not good enough. Setting me up for bigger whoppers down the line. He rewards and ‘punishments’ were very unpredictable as well.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
1 year ago
Reply to  VulcanChump

I saw Bad Vegan today. It was much better than I expected! Although I will say she should have known something was hinky when he told her he could make her dog immortal. 🙂

Dr. D
Dr. D
1 year ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

I love my two dogs so so crazy much. If someone could make my dog immortal, I’d give them a listen.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  VulcanChump

People are dangerously kidding themselves that they’re completely immune! It’s part of that typical cognitive fallacy that bad things could never happen to them because they’re special. Someone might not fall for that exact kind of thing shown in the two documentaries but for every person on earth, there’s a con artist with just the right line of bull and just the right “smell” to get past defenses.

I would have thought the Tinder Swindler guy was gross and skeevy on first sight and that the perps in the “bad vegans” were creepy bimbos before I learned of their schemes just because I have particular biases against those specific types. Like any bias, mine is not always fair. Because of bad experiences, I’m hinky about transnational jet setters, particularly overly groomed men wearing flashy designer clown gear (Shimon Hayut), or people who look and act sort of like provincial auto trade show models who double as escorts on weekends (Sarma Melngailis and her haughty-bored, tacky melted-Barbie vibe). I’ve never seen video of Anthony Strangis but at first glance he looks like a classic scary manbaby faking a jawline with a studiously casual stubble beard that screams– in my experience– “porn junkie!” and “screamer.”

In contexts where perfectly wholesome, nice people come off like the above because of regional fashions where they live or the norm in their line of work, my biases would be just plain mean so I’ve had to keep them in check. But there are other breeds of predators– maybe more subtle, more “authentic” seeming, exuding something playing to my own specific “positive” biases– that could probably still get past my radar, at least at first. I’m not immune and God doesn’t love me more than other people even if I’m scared of melted Barbies and jet set clowns. I’m sure there are understated, sober-seeming con artists somewhere who comes off exactly like, say, Christiane Amanpour or Mark Rylance.

As for whether someone has special abilities to suss out liars, just think of the FBI whose technicians and experts can only detect lying in about 50% of cases.

Mia
Mia
2 years ago

Exactly. From the time we’re little, our parents insist that we are actually hungry when our bodies are telling us that we are not, or we are cold when we aren’t cold, or that it does not hurt when another kid kicks us, but that we are too sensitive to kicking. We deny what our bodies and minds are telling us. It’s so much easier to think “Everything is ok. I’m just too sensitive”, than to see that people are self-serving and that we’re actually alone. There’s nothing as bad as a lie.

Daughterofachump
Daughterofachump
1 year ago
Reply to  Mia

I was brought up to use my brain, question authority, and listen to my gut. And from stories I’ve read on this site, I was fortunate. I think this has kept me out of a lot of messes in my life.

ChumpQueen
ChumpQueen
2 years ago
Reply to  Mia

Yes. Many adults – not just parents -do this to children because they see children as “other,” not fully human in the way adults are. Children’s feelings and sensibilities are dismissed or ignored by adults, often to appease their anxiety or to deflect responsibility. It’s a pervasive issue that creates problematic adult relationships later on.

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
2 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I just did 8 months of EMDR. A lot of it dealt with being gaslighted by my father (abusive alcoholic and narcissist). Made me not see the danger of my ex wife who was the Queen of Gaslighting.

❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
2 years ago
Reply to  Mia

I want to second Mia’s astute observation. Many people get trained away from their feelings and intuition from the get-go. Essential components of the navigation system, feelings and intuition, are dismissed and disabled, which make us vulnerable.

I’ve been with the same therapist since I was pregnant with my daughter, and have gotten high praise for strengthening that navigation system (which means I have had to tolerate her being angry at me in the course of her fifteen years, which is really scary because in my own disabling I was taught that if I was angry, love would be withdrawn).

I think my parents ripping out the
emotional wiring and my intuition, which I’ve worked hard in therapy to restore, has had a huge negative impact on my decision-making abilities.

It’s like when the dentist tells you not to eat until the Novocain wears off because you might be chewing on your cheek without feeling it.

Animals work to hone their intuition and humans tend to dismiss and discourage it, sadly. ☹️

Con artists also put a lot of effort into their Nice Guy/Gal act which only makes the water muddier.

Between his expertly crafted Nice Guy facade and my partially-restored wiring at the time we met, I can safely say I was a sitting duck.

Running On Empty is a great book about childhood emotional neglect and how to recover, by the way.

Traitor X is even more disconnected from his navigation system than I was and has done no work to restore it. I believe now that we should not have gotten married, and by the same token it’s very unlikely that his subsequent choices in romantic partners are going to be good ones.

Not Bitter, Just Not Forgiving & Forgetting
Not Bitter, Just Not Forgiving & Forgetting
1 year ago

Love that book, V-Hammer!

❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
2 years ago

Clarification…

I’ve gotten high praise from my therapist for strengthening my daughter’s emotional wiring and intuition, which has meant that I’ve had to tolerate and support my daughter being angry at me and not punishing her for it (I was punished for anger, often physically. Is it any wonder anger is so difficult for me?).

One day when she was a toddler she was SO MAD at me for something and so I turned her over to Traitor X when he got home from work. She glared at me from the high chair and told me, “Just go!”

I decided to step out and cried all the way to Starbucks, convinced she did not love me anymore.

Nope. She was just mad, and she still loved me, just like I still love her even if I feel angry at her.

I still haven’t graduated from Emotional Recovery school. The learning is ongoing. ????

But I am way better than I used to be! ????

When in co-parenting therapy with Traitor X, Dr. Kickass Co-parent often looked at him and said, “That’s not a feeling.”

I do believe that without that system intact, the odds of making a good choice for a romantic partner are slim.

And interestingly, Schmoopie comes from
a country and a culture which traditionally does not talk about feelings…..

❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
2 years ago

Running on Empty: Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect https://www.amazon.com/dp/161448242X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_M6465V3Q92S5JDQ4H93V

Learning to trust my feelings and my intuition is extremely important!

How many of us found out we were right all along? ????

Motherchumper99
Motherchumper99
2 years ago
Reply to  Mia

This ???????????????????????????????? My parents literally beat me into “accepting” their false narratives and disregarding/eliminating my reality. Learning about gaslighting, DARVO, and blameshifting after Dday was one of the most eye opening experiences of my life. It explained so many thoughts I had, insecurities, life choices that seem irrational and self-harming. I truly thought there was something intrinsicly wrong with me. Narcissistic abuse is insidious when it’s parents, spouses, bosses. I’ve experienced all three most of my 55 year life.

Hcard
Hcard
2 years ago

I had always been required to attend his dr appointments. He needed me to help remember everything etc. then I was not allowed to attend, yay! FW came home from doctors appointment, claimed Dr said he had never seen someone smoke for 40 yrs and have such clear lungs. (He was angry I had finally been able to quit smoking). Latter that evening the dr himself called concerned. Dr said if FW had any chest pains or shortness of breath, take him to the ER. He had a heart attack that night. Was put on hospice a few weeks later when no surgery could fix issue. He never had chest X-ray that day, he had EKG. He just made shit up.

Emma C
Emma C
1 year ago
Reply to  Hcard

I had a similar situation when my ex fell and did damage bad enough that we had to get a wheelchair in the house. As the weeks went by and I kept questioning why he wasn’t starting in-home PT, he would say the doctor said to wait. I finally called his doctor and said that I was concerned and that I knew for HIPAA reasons she couldn’t discuss anything with me. Within 15 minutes his doctor called him and had ordered in home PT to start the next day.

Dr Chumphead
Dr Chumphead
2 years ago

“It’s important to have good quality underwear. The cheap stuff wears out so easily!”

Emma C
Emma C
1 year ago
Reply to  Dr Chumphead

Reminds me of an event from my childhood in the 50’s in very rural area. I was six and using our homemade backyard swings that were pretty high. I was standing-pumping and fell off. I broke an ankle. Before taking me to the ER, my mother laid me out on the kitchen table to wash me off and put on clean underwear.

Emma C
Emma C
1 year ago
Reply to  Dr Chumphead

Reminds me of an event from my childhood in the 50’s in very rural area. I was six and using our homemade backyard swings that were pretty high. I was standing-pumping and fell off. I broke an ankle. Before taking me to the ER, my mother laid me out on the kitchen table to wash me off and put on clean underwear.

BTAW
BTAW
2 years ago

Welllllllllll.
1-Confronted FW about all these massages and got eye rolls, grunts, and hands in the air. After 2 weeks of not sleeping finally found the place online which literally described it as a “happy endings” place with pictures to prove. Again denied until my eyes must have turned red and threatened fire. Then he still brushed it off as a “they just watched me do it”. Next was “well a couple of times they sat on me or did the job”. I lost it! He finally started admitting things. Still get bullshit about cost and what was done but I have statements that prove how much was spent. Why not grow a pair and just be honest? What good do they feel watching us upset?
2-me: you ordered a hooker the night of your sons birthday!
FW-no I didn’t. I didn’t make that call you see on the statement. I didn’t get cash out of the hotel atm right after making the call and then answering a return call to confirm my hotel for her. Nope! Where are you getting this from?
Me:mothers€|!!€,£+^, *^_^*, +=+|+, go &/@;& yourself. Immediately followed by tears.

BTAW
BTAW
2 years ago
Reply to  BTAW

Constantly get told that I know more than him. He keeps claiming to just not remember.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  BTAW

Yep. Mind blender. No point in engaging. To quote CL, “The only winning move in mindfuck games is not to play.” Took me years to stop projecting and start accepting, but once I left and went NC, it all became clear within a matter of months. I now see gaslighting everywhere, especially at work and with FOO. Awareness of gaslighting is good, although I find it leads to meta crazymaking instead, now.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  BTAW

BTAW, I got the convenient memory lapses too. I think some of them were actually real, because the scumbag later admitted he could deliberately delete unwanted memories. So he’d do something shitty and just wipe it away. Right after Dday he frantically started deleting memories so he wouldn’t have to answer questions. He stupidly admitted doing it, but claimed it was because he did not want to remember anything about OW. Total B.S.!

Adelante
Adelante
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I got the opposite of “memory lapses.” My ex would tell me I had done things I knew I had not done, like seeing a movie with him that I knew I had not seen at all. I have a very place based memory system, in which memories are linked to places, so if I had seen that particular movie, I would have a good recall of the theatre in which I’d seen it. (Not to mention I had no memory of the plot…) He would also rewrite things he and I had spoken about. I had been asking for years to have a child, and he had been saying we couldn’t afford it. Twenty five years after we had the child, he told me that he was the one who wanted the child and had to pressure me into it! Yet I have a very clear memory of talking to my mother about the dilemma, of me telling her he didn’t want to have a child until he had decided we could afford it, and my mother saying, “If you want to have a child until you think you can afford one, you will never have a child.”

sleepyhead
sleepyhead
1 year ago
Reply to  Adelante

My ex did the movie thing too! Multiple times! Only now, looking back, I think he was actually trying to see how much sh!t he could get away with before I broke. He would always have a smug look on his face and seemed to be waiting for me to argue with him. I’m guessing that he actually saw those movies with one of his APs, knew it, and was getting his jollies watching me try to figure out what the truth was.

Adelante
Adelante
1 year ago
Reply to  Adelante

that’s “wait to have a child” not “want.”

LezChump
LezChump
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Yeah, I got the same thing. Convenient memory lapses. When I said – backed up by couples therapy, which I should NOT have been doing with STBX – that I needed answers to my specific questions, STBX said she didn’t want to go back through the records to figure out the answers.

So, when I found the dump of texts STBX had saved, I read all 500 pages of them. It was like swimming in poison, but I got my answers. And I saw that there were many things that STBX certainly did remember, and just wasn’t willing to tell me.

Which is why we have to Trust That They Suck. They will only cop to what they think we definitively know already, and then pull the Sad Sausage act about how it’s so hard for them, and we should just forgive them already. ????

oldcrone
oldcrone
1 year ago
Reply to  LezChump

Right, they’ll only admit to something of which you already have definitive proof.
And even then, they’ll try to spin it into either “you made me do it” or “it wasn’t that bad”.

oldcrone
oldcrone
2 years ago
Reply to  OHFFS

That’s a super power, to be able to erase memories.
I could use it to remove a whole crap load of pain.
But without those memories, I would still be mired in a horrible relationship with ex.
And he’s most likely lying, anyway.
So easy to say “I don’t remember” when the hard questions are asked. Much easier than admitting to being a monster.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  OHFFS

BS for sure. We can’t know what is/was in their alleged minds, and maybe sometimes the compartmentalization and cognitive dissonance really do lead these FWs to conveniently erase some memories. However, I witnessed my “forgetful” cheater FEW ex hold onto plenty of minutia where it suited him, and he also lied shamelessly about what he did/didn’t remember, just like he lied about everything.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  bread&roses

Yes, they do lie shamelessly, though they’ll often tell you “toxic shame” is at the root of their actions. They have no shame, toxic or otherwise. That’s the way it is when you’re so self-important and deluded you can justify anything you do.

bread&roses
bread&roses
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Of COURSE “toxic shame” is a common FW preoccupation. I should’ve known. Your comment made me remember wreckonciliation, when I was pick me dancing with PTSD and learning everything I could about infidelity, communication, mindfulness and forgiveness — while FW was absorbed with toxic shame. He was clueless enough to cry to me about it. Even then, I thought WTF… he actually buys this? And has the gall to cry to me about his pain? Toxic entitlement.

Byebyefw
Byebyefw
2 years ago
Reply to  bread&roses

So true bread&roses, same with mine. If it interested him, he could remember everything. Crap bits of life and responsibility, not so much

UpAndOut
UpAndOut
2 years ago
Reply to  Byebyefw

Right? Mine could remember minutia about every Little League game & high basketball game he ever played, but could he remember to call when he’d be late from work?
He had wonderful selective memory – it all revolved around him & his desires, and functioned only to serve him.

Byebyefw
Byebyefw
2 years ago
Reply to  OHFFS

How lovely for him OHFFS to be able to absolve himself that way. Utter tw*t

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
2 years ago

My ex tried to get me to believe she just had a friend after taking her diaphragm and spermicide out of our condo while I was on a work trip. She was just picking up sime stuff ????…. But she left her jewelry from her grandma. Priorities, I guess.

ChumpedToTheMaz
ChumpedToTheMaz
2 years ago

I was receiving strange phone calls with a woman telling the x she was leaving the key out for him. After weeks of these strange calls and the X ignoring my pleas as to what was going on, she left a voice mail which I played back for him. He stood by the phone listening then told me it was nothing, like there wasn’t a woman leaving a call at all. One day I came home from work early and a woman was rushing from the direction of our apartment with a guilty look on her face. He said she was there as a client just picking up some things, he had his own business at the time. Our two young children were home, but they were too young to know what was going on. Then the final blow, the same woman showed up the door drunk, claiming the X was hers and he was in love with her. I tried to drag her in the door to explain what was going on as the X was trying to drag her out. After she finally left, he then proceeded to convince me she was just a crazy person with a crush on him. We had a 6yr old and newborn at the time, so I wanted to believe him. And just like that, the gaslighting was complete.

Martha
Martha
2 years ago

How about being gaslit by your “such a godly man” pastor? I know my memory is accurate, because my sister was there during the meeting with the pastor, cheater and myself. The pastor said that it was time for the cheater to leave the house. My sister and I went back to my house, and we even said “Yay!” over the pastor saying it was time for the cheater to leave. Days later, I said to the cheater, “When are you leaving? Pastor said you needed to leave.” He said and I quote, “He never said that.” He then proceeded to speaker call the pastor up and then the pastor said, “I never said that.” No doubt in my mind that the cheater and pastor had a talk after we left, and the pastor decided to lie for the cheater. That wolf in sheep’s clothing is no longer my pastor! I wouldn’t be surprised he was a cheater himself as he loves hugging all the women at church and he was always on the cheaters side during marriage counseling. Gag! Never again!!

Goodfriend
Goodfriend
2 years ago

FW was desperate to believe that a hot, busty babe less than half his age wanted to marry him, so he accepted all sorts of gaslighting from his online AP, even though he watched the show “Catfished” weekly. For example:
1) That she was a good Catholic girl and even though he was married with children, her priest supported their marriage because it was Twu Wuv.
2) That although she was born in Puerto Rico and raised in the US, ICE agents were actively pursuing her and would deport her because she couldn’t find her papers. FW explained to her that if she was born in Puerto Rico, she already HAD American citizenship and could readily replace her papers for less than $50; at the same time, he sent her thousands of dollars to replace her papers, and promised if she was deported he’d go with her.
3) Although he’d sent her tens of thousands of dollars via online transfers, and they planned to marry, she wouldn’t give him her address, which he needed to mail her a credit card he got for her. She emailed that she only gave her address to close friends she trusted, and apparently he didn’t qualify, despite all the money he’d sent and their plans to marry. She told him to mail it to a friend in NYC who supposedly worked full time yet was able to drive roundtrip (NY to AZ to NY) every other weekend to visit AP.
4) When FW said he was going to visit her, she announced she had to leave Arizona at 2 am on a bus that very night, on a church mission of mercy from AZ to NYC. A few hours later she emailed that she’d arrived at a city near Seattle, in Oregon. When he asked how she got there in less than half the time it took to drive a car, she said it was a very fast bus and made just a few stops. He told her she got the state wrong, and she was in Washington, totally ignoring the fact that she said she went to the NORTHWEST COAST, on the opposite side of the US from NY.
While falling for the AP’s gaslighting, he emailed the AP about gaslighting me when I found the receipt for a gift card he sent her. Afraid I’d catch on, he worked hard to convince ME that I didn’t remember things, was terribly confused, and needed an MRI to see why my brain was failing. After I had one, he told our friends that my MRI, which was NORMAL, supposedly showed my brain was deteriorating rapidly, making me paranoid and violent, and he advised them to stay away from me for their own safety.

Daughterofachump
Daughterofachump
1 year ago
Reply to  Goodfriend

I hope you were able to recover the dissipated marital funds in the settlement.

DrChump
DrChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Goodfriend

what an asshole

Thrive
Thrive
2 years ago
Reply to  Goodfriend

Wow! Hope you are free!

eirene
eirene
2 years ago
Reply to  Goodfriend

I’m so sorry this happened to you, Goodfriend.

LookingForwardstoTuesday
LookingForwardstoTuesday
2 years ago

I sometimes think that gaslighting works because Chumps have literally no idea how far Cheaters are prepared to go to avoid being held responsible for their actions or to get what it is that they want, regardless of the consequences for others.

Fundamentally, a Cheater’s relationship with the truth is only as close as the truth is to serving their purposes.

LFTT

FormerlyKnownAs
FormerlyKnownAs
1 year ago

I totally agree with this. I got lied to and gaslighted so much I wonder if he did it just for sport. He had absolutely fantastical tales and things were always going on for him. For example one night he ran out of the house at around 9pm saying he had to buy something. He was gone a long time so I was calling him and texting. I was worried as he didn’t say what he needed to buy. I finally got hold of him and he said he needed to go somewhere else because the one store didn’t have what he needed. Odd. Then he got home later and crashed down on the floor telling me of his horrible drama. Apparently a drunk woman was on our street and she ran into the road so he stopped to help her. She was apparently so drunk that she was kissing him and he kept pushing her away. Poor baby!! He was so shaken by this tale. I felt so bad for him! I made him a cup of tea and tried to calm him down….it wasn’t until a few months past DDay that I realized that this tale, and many other weird things like this were all bullshit. My world was so jacked that I had no idea what was real. I just kept loving him, trying to be good and kind while all the while getting completely lied to. Gaslighting is the hardest thing to heal from❤️‍????

DrChump
DrChump
2 years ago

spot on plus FWs take advantage of the fact that most chumps love their spouses and trust them

chumped48
chumped48
2 years ago

There are so many to choose from. Hmmm… I will say that knowing that he drank a lot (later realized he hid most of the drinking), I could assume that he was saying this untrue thing because he was drunk and didn’t remember. However, he certainly convinced me of a few of them:
1. Drunkenly backed up his car into a neighbor’s tree and smashed the back window of our SUV– “the cold weather made it spontaneously break” AND (to the neighbor) “someone shot the back window out with a gun” (neighbor and I compared stories and had a good laugh about that one.
2. I found a very large bottle of wine in the recycle bin that I had never seen- he was red-faced and slurring his speech and told me “The neighbors must have put that in there”. (they hadn’t- I actually believed that one for months though)
3. We were spackling and painting our kitchen (I did most of the work he would constantly take credit for stuff that I did) I spent an enormous amount of time spackling over an old phone jack that I’d removed so it would look perfect (I was, after all a GRADE A SPACKLER in every sense). He 100% claimed that HE had done that spackle job. I was sure he hadn’t but backed out of that argument. I still to this day cannot believe how insistent he was that he did that work. I had no idea what gaslighting was at the time, but I love that I have a spackle story about spackling over his gaslighting.

Duped for Years
Duped for Years
1 year ago
Reply to  chumped48

My ex-husband had a knack for telling friends my stories (things I had experienced or done) as if they were his own – right in front of me. I’d later ask him why he did that and he’d say, “I didn’t do that!” (Sigh…)

Off the crazy train
Off the crazy train
2 years ago

Fair point! I didn’t think it through to be honest. The topic abuts against women’s rights and safeguarding issues. It’s a 2+2=5 reality issue too. I’m being vague as whenever you speak about it, certain activists call you a bigot. Just ask JK Rowling.

Chumpkins
Chumpkins
2 years ago

What an excellent idea mentioning JK Rowling on a CL post about gaslighting! Some journalists have noticed Rowling’s skill in rewriting reality, such as using rhetorical tricks to reverse victim and offender. If you want to see what I mean, Google this phrase, ‘jk rowling terf sleight of hand futrelle’ (remove quote marks before googling). If you don’t use the key words “terf”, you’ll see her writer tricks from the Harry Potter books, which are good but not gaslighting. Adding the key word “futrelle” puts the best, shortest article on top, the one most focused on her sleight-of-hand, mind tricks in politics.

It makes sense that an author so skilled at creating a fictional reality might be skilled at rewriting reality. I’ve noticed this with other authors like Neil Strauss. Good storytellers are quite skilled at stripping out the truth of an incident. JMHO.

First Amendment defender
First Amendment defender
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpkins

What was the book?

Off the crazy train
Off the crazy train
2 years ago

I agree and on other forums I do speak out very plainly about this issue – and in my own name. I suppose the other reason I was being vague here was because it is off topic, so out of respect for you all and for Chump Lady. But make no mistake, I take the sex vs gender / women’s rights and children’s safeguarding issue very seriously indeed. There is a horrendous amount of gaslighting going on and our voices are being silenced, while our rights are eroded and – crucially for the topic at hand – reality is being denied.

I’m more aware of gaslighting since being chumped, so I feel the injustice that women across the world are experiencing because of this issue more keenly.

That’s all I’ll say on the matter on this forum. Back to living better lives after being chumped. Apologies for triggering a derailment, let’s get back on the same sane train. 🙂

CakeEater'sDaughter
CakeEater'sDaughter
2 years ago

Let’s not go down that particular road, please. There are differences of opinion among us on this specialist topic, I’m sure, and it seems like a potentially community-damaging digression, though I’m not implying it was intended that way.

I thought you were talking about the attempted coup against the U.S. government. :-

weedfree
weedfree
1 year ago

I thought she was referring to Australia’s sinister attempt to convert Americans to eating vegemite on toast for breakfast. You should really try it. It’s actually peanut butter jelly. If you think differently please get help.

New Beginnings
New Beginnings
2 years ago

More lies – there was never any proof of a stolen election…. talk about gaslighting!

BB
BB
1 year ago
Reply to  New Beginnings

Excellent DARVO WATC.

New Beginnings
New Beginnings
2 years ago

This sounds like a story where you do not have all of the facts. Just because a woman in prison got pregnant does not mean that it happened from another inmate that was transitioning from male to female. There are male prison guards and other staff. There are spousal visits where that could occur also.

Please don’t make this thread about some weird off top political rant.

Motherchumper99
Motherchumper99
2 years ago

So much gaslighting from XH. I think the gaslighting, DARVO, blameshifting, rage we’re far worse and more painful than learning my beloved had put his nasty dick into another woman. When my XH’s mask slipped after Dday it was terrifying. In a matter of days the man I loved for 26 years was seemingly transformed into a cruel, hateful, raging stranger who wanted to destroy me and our 4 children and pets . . . The shark eyes were like looking into the gates of hell. . . Even now, 7 years later and long divorced, I’m haunted by his utter transformation. Today I understand that is who XH always was—It was all a long elaborate con-job designed to use me for the respectable front of family and marriage, cook, clean, work, earn money, keep house, have and raise kids. Sickening.

Hurt1
Hurt1
1 year ago

I’m haunted my ex’s transformation as well. Dday was 12 yrs ago/divorce 10 yrs ago & who was he really?

Thrive
Thrive
2 years ago

Yes! Our friends and I were astounded at transformation. Who is this man we all loved? Jekyll and Hyde.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  Thrive

It messed with my family, too, Thrive. They treated FW, warts and all, as a family member for many years, and they genuinely loved him. But they also had front row seats to my side of the double life and to the insanity that led to and followed the ddays and me leaving; they knew how terrible the years of gaslighting and secrecy were because they saw the surface, saw what it did to me, and learned most of the truth. He also betrayed them, and he never came back to apologize or say goodbye. They got zero closure. We’re all recovering, but it really did mess with my family, and not just because they were so worried about me for a little while there. They all, to some degree, experienced nightmares, false sightings, ruminations, revenge fantasies, grief, avoidance.

I’ve observed that Switzerland friends compartmentalize when the truth feels too uncomfortable or threatens unwanted consequences. People who love you might not fully understand, but at least they don’t turn a blind eye. They’re on your team and they make it known. Same goes for acquaintances who might not love you, but who have integrity and know you enough to trust and respect you.

MamaMeh
MamaMeh
1 year ago
Reply to  bread&roses

100% EXACTLY the same with my family. My parents, in their mid-70s at the time of Day, still suffer. My mother just cried for months. 22 yr marriage and he was loved (warts n all) like a son – his own family being on other side of the world. (Oh yes, no coincidence … I was his ticket away from *their* narcissistic mindfuckery!)

Just recently he asked my brother if they could catch up. Almost the first thing he wanted to discuss was having lunch with my parents! He’s heading back to the Mother Country soon with his fiancé (former close friend of mine who understands that he only went to brothels and gay saunas for the last half of the marriage because the harridan wife was just SO awful and he was “keeping the family together”). He’d so love to be able to take a story of how everyone has “moved on” and we’re all wonderful friends.

Also you are completely correct about Switzerland friends bread&roses. It’s extraordinary how determinedly some people are to avoid discomfort. In the end, it is simply about the trust/respect they have for you … to believe that your perceptions – your “narrative” – is beyond doubt. Otherwise, they’re simply adding to the gaslighting … implying that you don’t actually know what your own experience is.

KatiePig
KatiePig
1 year ago
Reply to  MamaMeh

LMAO, she thinks he went gay because you nagged him?! Oh my gosh, that’s rich. My wife is getting on my nerves, better go suck some strange dick! LOL She already deserved what she’s going to get with him for betraying you but she extra deserves it for that BS. What a moron. Thank God you’re rid of those absolute idiots.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago

I didn’t stand a chance since everybody I knew unknowingly participated in the gaslighting. They were so invested in believing he was an awesome guy that everything I was dealing with was dismissed without question. I’m not sure why they were so invested as to do that to me. I mean, even complete strangers would come up to me to tell me how lucky I was to have such a nice man. WTF? To this day I don’t completely understand how he pulled that off. I know part of it was him being so passive and low affect that they mistook if for an inherently gentle nature. I did too. But how would people who didn’t know him get that vibe without even interacting with him much?
These people are scary in how effective they are at bamboozling.
I’ll never forget my grandmother telling me if I “didn’t stop” I was going to lose him. I asked her what I was doing that I needed to stop and she had no answer. He somehow gave everyone the impression he was hard done by and downtrodden without saying a word. In reality he was a lazy, entitled fucker who got way more out of life than he ever deserved or gave back.
This mass gaslighting ruined relationships with people I loved.
Just another casualty of life with a covert narc.

weedfree
weedfree
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

OHFFS this was my experience as well. Sam Vaknin’s doormat to psychopath videos described the deterioration that followed once the ex was exposed and was therefore mortified. I am sure that no one would have ever believed me if it weren’t for the bizarre texts and emails that followed as he became manifestly disconnected from reality (although he always was, but I unknowlingly participated in the fantasy).

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  weedfree

WF, so true. That is my fave Vaknin video. Chillingly accurate.
They start off so fantasy driven and if it’s a gradual slide we don’t notice it. Before we know what’s happening, they are already living in full blown delusions of their own making. My FW started his descent a few years before cheating. Vaknin says narcissistic mortification is the most common cause, but I have also read that substance abuse, having PD friends and the use of pornography are also factors. My FW had all those problems. Did yours?

weedfree
weedfree
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

OHFFS ~ all of the above. One day a few years before ex became seriously unhinged he didn’t return home from a night out with his workmates (one of whom was his AP who I suspect has BPD based on what I’ve been told). I rang to see where he was and he was wandering around the city having a psychotic episode. I suspect he had been taking acid and MDMA for the last few years of relationship because I accidentally found out (my fault for invading his privacy of course ~ don’t set up family sharing with your email account ya fwit). Porn yes not that I was privy to it but he certainly liked genitals in a dead ringers type way. His mother is a narc who openly brags about their superior bloodlines despite them mostly being mentally deficient. One of my kids is ASD and the pediatrician met my ex and said he is more severely autistic than our son. My son is a typical autistic brutally honest whereas my ex is a pathological liar and manipulator. Vaknin did a video about autistics that develop the mask to cope with a Narc caregiver. When your mother teaches you to lie, cheat and steal as a child to protect the family image, I guess that’s what happens. What a mindfuck.
PS My name is because one day my 7 yo son and I were weeding the garden. Ex walked out and sprayed glyphosate pretty much all over the garden and us, and when I told him to stop he yelled “I don’t know what you want me to do ~ why are you treating me like this”. He stormed off and, I discovered later, met with his sister (also a deranged wanker) to buy pills before they had a night out at a dance party with his affair partner. My sister in law took her two 12 yo kids. Morally reprehensible freaks.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  weedfree

Wow, WF. Thanks for telling me your incredible story and the origin of your screen name. You obviously suffered a lot because of that freak. The dead ringers thing and the creepy stuff with his sister and her kids are both very disturbing. My FW’s OW liked exposing her kids to affair partners just as so many other cheaters seem to do. IMO it is child abuse to deliberately expose one’s children to a degenerate, harmful lifestyle like cheating and substance abuse, yet it is legal.????

I can relate to your brutally honest son. I hope he does not have to spend a lot of time with his fuckwitted substance abusing father. Most people on the spectrum are nothing like him! His character is defective.
I guess the best we can hope is that they continue to be fucked up losers somewhere else instead of bothering us. They sure as hell aren’t going to change.

Maisie
Maisie
2 years ago
Reply to  OHFFS

I had a parent like that. When she was done with my father, she then turned on me. She would claim is was damaged to all of my friends, our family and social circle. I didn’t understand what was going on until my late teens to early 20’s . She was always hard done by me and didn’t know what she was going to do with me. It has all come home to roost for her now. Unhappy, living with another man, her golden child abandoned her and the other child just as selfish as she is. It is hard to see because it was at one time my “family” but I am better off like you are.

Letgo
Letgo
2 years ago

Even those of us reasonably happily married have heard this one, and I include most of my friends.

Me: Please stop talking to me in that tone of voice.
Him: What tone of voice?
Me: You know.
Him: Why don’t you pay attention to the words instead of some socalled tone.

At that point the joke would be. He is in room 203 but can’t have visitors yet.

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  Letgo

Letgo, you just described a major gaslighting theme in my relationship with ex.

After the final dday, when some heartless, controlling mindfuckery from my ex led to my discovery of several incriminating and incredibly cruel emails between my ex and one of his OWs, I was in a complete state of shock. Not eating, not sleeping, isolated, ashamed, heartbroken. Terrified and in a state of temporary paralysis because I knew I needed to leave because I couldn’t love him and our relationship would never be “acceptable,” but I didn’t know where to go (scary pandemic time made it even harder) and didn’t really care because it felt so overwhelming and hopeless.

I was there, but I wasn’t really. I felt fragile. I was quiet, calm and detached. Ex sat there on the couch, as far from me as he could get. Arms crossed, legs crossed, hunched away from me, hat pulled down, teeth gritted, glowering. I said that I wasn’t going to do that. I needed compassion. He snarled, “What do you mean?” I said, “You know, like how you treat people when someone they love is sick or has died, or when they’ve lost a pet. You wouldn’t even treat acquaintances the way you’re treating me. I can’t take this from you right now.” Then I walked into the kitchen and started mindlessly doing dishes because I was losing my mind. That’s when FW growled, “Don’t ACCUSE me of not being compassionate.” So I walked over, looked him in the eye, and surprised even myself by screaming in his face, “FUCK. YOU.” (Sorry, I’ve told pieces of this story before but it is just so textbook.)

Letgo
Letgo
1 year ago
Reply to  bread&roses

I thought I was being emotional until I shared with a few friends. Same exact conversation. I am a pretty tough woman so it never really penetrated, but I did mention over the years that I never heard him use that tone with anyone else.
My advice to anyone getting married is to make a silent vow to themselves, that day, to never tolerate sarcasm. It is contempt disguised as humor. I am not talking about CL/CN because snark is called for on this blog. I am talking about those little remarks muttered under the breath. My husband doesn’t do that anymore.

bread&roses
bread&roses
1 year ago
Reply to  Letgo

I believe that you are a tough woman, Letgo, from your comments on this blog. Surviving years of abuse, getting out somehow, and finding kinship in CN, in my opinion, demonstrates mightiness . We’ve been conditioned, by people who want to control and take advantage of us, to believe that spackling is the tough thing to do. However, I am working to reprogram myself to believe that true power and toughness comes from standing up to abuse, having expectations and boundaries, and living true to my values.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  bread&roses

THE FW credo; “Don’t you dare accuse me of doing the thing I’m doing and being what I am! My actions don’t reflect my intentions, which are always noble.”

Yeah, FUCK YOU, Liarface McSmellyballs.

TooManyTears
TooManyTears
2 years ago

Mine is chapter one, paragraph one, line one, in the cheaters handbook…
“We are just friends”
Okkkkkk. Why did you hide the “friendship” for 2 1/2 years until I found out about it?
Gaslight answer: “I knew you’d never understand a friendship between a man and woman”
(Clearly I’m too unevolved)
“Why was she sending you gifts and food to your office …?”
Gaslighter: I was afraid you and the kids would eat the cookies…
“Why did you erase all texts (evidence)from her?”
Gasbag: “They must have deleted in my pocket”
I really, really wanted to believe my husband / love would never betray me. I bought it all, hook, line and sinker. Stinker!

Elsie
Elsie
2 years ago

Yes, I agree. I wanted to believe, and I didn’t want to rock the boat. Being a SAHM, I was in a very vulnerable position as it was. He threatened divorce periodically and even clued where he’d go. That put the relationship into a very unsteady position but made his actions predictable after he left the second time. When I questioned his version of things (“I never did that”), I was conditioned to think that it was my thinking that was scrambled. Of course, it was all my fault that he “had” to take off. As if a grown man can’t face problems in a mature way. Later on, I heard about people who divorced easily with dignity and respect, and mine promised that and turned into a way to punish me that went on and on. That told me how little he truly thought of me all along.

Eventually, I got my thinking together and worked on my issues that contributed to the problems. Sure, I messed up, but I didn’t abandon the marriage. I didn’t threaten divorce for so very long and then threaten to cut off support out of spite. He put me into a position of no trust and no path forward with him.

It all had to be. Ironically I dreamed last night that I was having dinner with my attorney and his wife (the firm’s financial manager). We laughed and teased and had a great time. He was the first male in my life to deeply confirm that my thinking wasn’t messed up and that getting out of the marriage was the only path forward. Now he’s retired and doesn’t even live in the area anymore, but it was a happy dream.

Thrive
Thrive
2 years ago

I found an empty bottle of viagra in his truck. FW: I used them to beat-off.” Fortunately I did not believe that and kicked his ass out 2 hours later. Hugs to newbies! Glad and sorry you are here!

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
1 year ago
Reply to  Thrive

Same. Secret boner pills (herbal and medical) were for masterbating.

The lie, of course, doesn’t make any sense. I mean, if you can’t get it up for yourself maybe you just… don’t actually want to masterbate? I don’t have a penis so I don’t claim to know. Maybe a male chump can chime in.

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
1 year ago
Reply to  NotAnymore

Unless he truly has ED because of a medical condition, he doesn’t need Viagra to masterbate. ????????????

Whitecoatburnout
Whitecoatburnout
2 years ago
Reply to  Thrive

I found it in his toolbox in the garage. I think if you are looking for evidence, the garage is an obvious and easy place to start. Also, recently read about a woman who swapped his viagra for a pill of similar appearance, then began dissolving the real viagra in his drink or food just before he left the house – gave him inconvenient and public erections. I find this truly inspiring!

Queen of Shade
Queen of Shade
1 year ago

And also, I believe, a felony. Don’t try that (food tampering) at home. As CL says, it’s a dog and pony show. Be the best pony. Squeaky clean wins the best settlement.

Claire
Claire
2 years ago

I just want to share with you all my wonderful Friday news!!

My solicitor called today to give me the fab news that the judge has rubber stamped my settlement. In 7 days I will receive all what is rightfully mine.

This ‘Battle Royale’ has lasted 17 months and FW tried his damndest to prevent me from getting anything!

Someone quoted on here ‘how do you eat an elephant…. One bite at a time’. Well I’ve eaten the last bite. I’m free!

I wanted to share this because without LACGAL, CL & CN I probably wouldn’t have made it.

For any newbies, hang in there guys because you really can do this. It really does get better. You can heal. You can be free. I’m no spring chicken. I had a long ‘mirage’. But today is my day. I have my family, a (new) job, my own house. money, a pension and will be taking a long trip to Thailand in March with all my children and grandchildren. I have fought for this and WON.

Happy Friday people ❤️

Rebecca
Rebecca
1 year ago
Reply to  Claire

Congratulations Claire! You have been mighty through this. Enjoy all the delicious “bites” in your future ❤️

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  Claire

Way to go Claire! You’re free! ????

Byebyefw
Byebyefw
2 years ago
Reply to  Claire

Well done Claire! Justice served, congratulations ????

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago
Reply to  Claire

Congratulations! You have been very mighty! Enjoy your trip!

Involuntary Georgian
Involuntary Georgian
2 years ago

Gaslighting is different from plain old lying. Gaslighting is lying about something that both parties know is true, with the aim of getting the other party to doubt his/her sanity or memory.

For instance:
1. Lying. “No, I have never had an affair”.
2. Gaslighting. “What? I never admitted to having an affair. You are remembering that wrong”.

#1 is pretty bad, but #2 truly makes your head spin. In my experience, #2 was effective because it occurred on top of extreme emotional upheaval, panic attacks, insomnia, etc. I think I wouldn’t have been as bewildered by it if I’d been more compos mentis at the time.

To be fair, XW didn’t do a lot of gaslighting. She mostly did (and does) paltering: making a technically true statement that you know will be misconstrued by the other party
3. Paltering. “I am taking the kids to visit friends for a week”. (Takes kids to friends, drops them, spends rest of week out of state at AP’s house, picks up kids on the way back).

Queen of Shade
Queen of Shade
1 year ago

I have learned a completely new word! And apparently my ex did a lots lots lot of this! Never knew!

Rebecca
Rebecca
1 year ago

One gaslighting experience really sticks out like your example Involuntary Georgian.

At his deposition, my lawyer showed FW a copy of a check that AP had written to help pay for his new apartment during the closing. I never knew about the apartment until months later.

FW could have simply lied and said “I don’t remember why she wrote a check”. But no! He calmly told my lawyer that there was no check written. That just because the lawyer said this was a copy of a check that was part of the closing documents, there was no prof that the check actually existed. My lawyer pointed out that FW and his lawyer provided the closing documents. FW said that there was no proof that the copy of the check was truly sent with the documents and that my lawyer didn’t just add it in.

FW is a real estate lawyer!!!!

Made me wonder if there is anything that these people won’t try and manipulate.

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago

My gaslighting example would be.

Me, after him coming home early in the am after being out all night: Why were you out all night?

Him: I was talking to one of the guys all night who is having marriage problems.

Me: Have you been with a woman?

Him: you are fucking crazy; part of my job is helping other officers, if you are going to accuse me, then maybe I should just do it.

UpAndOut
UpAndOut
2 years ago

Thanks for the new term “paltering.” XH did this a lot. I just called it omission of truth, but he obviously knew I would misconstrue the facts he told & continue to believe he was an honest, faithful husband.

MrWonderful’sEx
MrWonderful’sEx
2 years ago

Just this week, klootzak tried to gaslight me in front of our child. I wish I could remember what it was but the fact I don’t tells you how much weight and value I gave his comment. He said something about me that was patently false. When the words hit my ears, they were so laughable, I had to fight the urge to laugh out loud. I think I smiled a little and said the classic gray rock, “OK.” His statement was so patently false, who was I to argue with his delusion? I knew there was no point. He made no sense. He turned around and walked off and my son looked at me, grinned, rolled his eyes up, and shook his head. I had only said “OK” but my 7 year old clearly recognized the batshit crazy without my saying another thing. Klootzak must think he is gaslighting us both. He is a legend in his own mind.

I worry that klootzak’s gaslighting attempts won’t always be caught by our child. Klootzak will always have time with him without me around and all I can do is to teach our child to pay attention to what is real and what truth is based on what he sees. Evidence is everything. And sometimes we just say “OK” because you can’t waste your breath arguing with someone who wants to convince you the goat is a dog.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
2 years ago

Here’s a surprising idea: don’t give people the benefit of the doubt. I actually heard Dr. Phil say that the other day (probably on a rerun show). Don’t give people the benefit of the doubt.

If you have a doubt, look at it. Figure out what you are doubting and what it means that you doubt. Most of the time people talk about “the benefit of the doubt,” the person they are giving that benefit to has already done something shitty. Pay attention. Over time, it might be clear that the shitty thing was a one-off or there is some reasonable explanation. Or more likely, if you pay attention, the person who needs or wants that “benefit of the doubt” turns out to be dishonest, untrustworthy, careless, selfish or cruel.

Pay attention to the DOUBT you have. That’s your intuition talking. You lose nothing by refusing to make a judgment but staying aware and paying attention.

Adelante
Adelante
1 year ago
Reply to  LovedAJackass

Giving people the benefit of the doubt was my modus operandi. Was. Once I decided giving the benefit of the doubt was on the same continuum as spackling, I decided that I’d go with skepticism first.

Queen of Shade
Queen of Shade
1 year ago
Reply to  LovedAJackass

A ‘benefit of a doubt’ means that you think someone did something bad, but perhaps it seems out of character for them or you believe in an innocent-until-proven-guilty kind of high-road. So you think they did something bad but you give them the ‘benefit of a doubt’, that you don’t have solid proof, or that you misconstrued what you saw. You are, in essence, willing to acknowledge that what you think heard or saw might not be true.

UpAndOut
UpAndOut
2 years ago
Reply to  LovedAJackass

I agree. I wish I didn’t hear echoes of my mother teaching me to give others the benefit of the doubt.
In line with this is Sophie Hannah’s recent book called “How to Hold a Grudge.” Yes, the mystery author & poet Sophie Hannah.
“Grudges have the power to transform your life for the better” on the CD case at the library sold me on trying the book. Couldn’t help but think of CL as I listened!

❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
2 years ago

I have a beautiful copy of The Emperor’s New Clothes. It’s a good reminder to be like the little boy in the story, who stands by what he sees.

????

Traitor X criticized my love of books.

????

FuckWitFree
FuckWitFree
1 year ago

Velvet, I got the same, for years. Was an English major, came into the relationship with many books…endless criticism. Even threw some away knowing it would upset me. Thank goodness he could sooth himself from the trauma of my reading and learning by looking at underage porn.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago

“Traitor X criticized my love of books.”

Who does that? It makes no sense, unless he felt somehow threatened. ???? ????

Year ago (pre D-day) my kids gave me tickets for the Metropolitan Opera. FW walked out during the first intermission. He actually said something about how he felt uncomfortable because it wasn’t “who he was” or some such. He was more comfortable at a sporting event. At the time, I UNDERSTOOD, and left with him. We were staying in a hotel, and I wanted so much for the weekend to be fun.

Now I marvel that he wasn’t able to suck it up for me. I just realize how many times I went to the things HE liked, such as fly-fishing trips abroad and all-day fly-fishing shows.

This one time he was in a position to do something for me, and he couldn’t. But I excused it. Maybe that’s spackling. I don’t know. I feel as though there’s a connection. Maybe spackling is a form of self-gaslighting.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
1 year ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

I might add that my kids were appalled that we left early because of him. They could see how nutty it was, but either I couldn’t acknowledge that or I wasn’t willing. *sigh*

p.s. I’m convinced that the kids see things that, for whatever reason, we don’t. They know.

Chumparella
Chumparella
1 year ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

I have to endorse this insight-from Spinach – spackling is a form of self-gaslighting. Covering up via active spackling hides the cracks that are so unsightly.
Also it promotes hopium taking
in that if I sparkle over this disturbing fact -out of sight-out of mind-I don’t have to see it and I can discount it as evidence of ongoing manipulation.

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
1 year ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

When I would suggest seeing a music band that I liked and she didn’t, she wouldn’t want to go. It ALWAYS had to be her way.

Livingmybestlifenow
Livingmybestlifenow
2 years ago

This isn’t the most outlandish gaslighting story but I believe it is the germinal gaslight that my ex husband ever pulled on me. We had been dating a few months. We were out to dinner waiting for our table and making conversations with some guys at the bar. My then boyfriend mentioned he had he graduated from such and such state university with his bachelors in geology. “Wait,”. I said, “you told me you went on to get your masters I metallurgy.” The men at the bar all said “busted!” My then boyfriend looked me in the eye and said “I never told you that. Some other guy must have told you that”. I doubted myself. Maybe he was right. I was 21 and a lot of guys would chat me up back then. Now I believe that is when he knew he had me. I was insecure. Even though I was an intelligent, ambitious young woman, I had just enough self doubt that he could f@@@ with my sense of reality. Five years into the marriage I learned he had dropped out of college before even finishing his bachelors. Just two of the many many lies he told me over our 26 year marriage, 31 years together including dating. He acted so sure of himself and indignant when I would catch him in a lie. “I never said that” “I never did that.” He did give me two beautiful daughters so I don’t regret it all. But I do regret a lot of it. Thankfully I am free from him now.

Double Chumped
Double Chumped
2 years ago

The biggest gaslight I get from family and “friends” is “stop playing the victim” anytime I talk about my heartbreak after discovering her affair, her leaving, and then her smear campaign.

So I don’t talk about it anymore to anyone except my therapist.

Letgo
Letgo
1 year ago
Reply to  Double Chumped

Boy does this hit home. I came here out of curiosity and stayed because CL/CN helped me understand why I could not stop grieving for my brother, a Chump. It was rage. It has simmered down but I will never forgive his ex for abandoning him and their children. I have had people wonder why I was so unforgiving. You know, it’s history. After all he remarried and had more kids. None of them saw what I saw. A man overwhelmed with grief and fear and young children who lost their childhoods. I do not understand why anyone questions grief, rage, dreams of revenge. I hope everyone here reaches meh on a Tuesday but we all hope for a little karma.

Adelante
Adelante
1 year ago
Reply to  Letgo

But of course it’s not history. The effects of that abandonment are ongoing. It beggars belief that people don’t understand this until it happens to them.

Morrychump
Morrychump
1 year ago
Reply to  Double Chumped

Same…I get ‘aren’t you over it yet, it’s been a year’. This from my ‘friends’. Sigh. I’ve stopped talking about. I just post on CN.

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
2 years ago
Reply to  Double Chumped

You are not alone, I got that also.

New Beginnings
New Beginnings
2 years ago

Please stop making this political. Your comments are hyperbole attempts to make liberal people seems crazy. Most of this is not true and just made up ‘facts’ .

And calling people ‘tranny’ is a slur that just indicates your prejudices.

WeAreTheChumpions
WeAreTheChumpions
1 year ago
Reply to  New Beginnings

Prove to me what’s “made up.”

bread&roses
bread&roses
2 years ago
Reply to  New Beginnings

This seems like gaslighting, WATC. From the tone and context of how you used the term ‘tranny,’ and from your subsequent comments, it seems quite clear that you meant it as an insult. Your comments are also blatantly political, and to claim otherwise is gaslighting.

CL has made it clear that sexism, homophobia, racism, and politics have no place on this blog. We all get off topic at times, but your comments today have been pretty blatant. She usually steps in to shut it down but has told us she’s busy packing… so let’s leave her to it?

Apidae
Apidae
2 years ago
Reply to  bread&roses

Oh? Sexism, homophobia, and irrelevant politics seem to have a pretty good place on this blog, given the number of upvotes for this hijacking a discussion for chumps into one about the original commenter’s pet brainweasels.

Sad that this is going to be yet another site where links to great posts come with a “but DON’T read the comments” warning.

ChumpFace
ChumpFace
1 year ago
Reply to  Apidae

You can’t change biological sex. This is not controversial. Anyone claiming you can is a gaslighter.

KatiePig
KatiePig
2 years ago
Reply to  New Beginnings

Yeah, i got called a bigot during my divorce because i dared to speak aloud one of my ex’s fuck buddies chosen screen name of “fat ugly tranny whore.” Like sorry, i don’t know their real name, that’s what they call themselves. That was a fun little turd on the shit Sunday.

OHFFS
OHFFS
2 years ago
Reply to  New Beginnings

I agree NB. Fumigation of the thread may now be required of CL, who is much too busy for this. Yeesh.

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
2 years ago
Kit
Kit
1 year ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

My daughter played this album for me in the car as we started off on a road trip. She and I sang angrily along with “Gaslighter” and smirked at each other at “Tights on a Boat.” Then came “Young Man,” about Natalie Maines’ teenage son’s learning the truth about his father. Natalie’s pain and heartbreak resonated with mine and I started sobbing. How I wish the trauma had stopped with me.

“I had no words for you that Saturday
As we both watched our entire worlds change
Your hero fell just as you came of age
And I had no words, but now I know what to say

You’re of me, not mine
Walk your own crooked line
I promise you’ll be fine
Take the best parts of him
As your own life begins
Leave the bad news behind you

Young man, take a good look at my life and
Try to understand I’ve done my best
The best I know how to
And my blues aren’t your blues
It’s up to you”

Byebyefw
Byebyefw
2 years ago

Someone ‘hacked’ into FW’s Instagram account to follow young, nubile women online. How did that happen. More fool me believed him. OW now believes all his lies like I did. He actually ended up with his stalker

KatiePig
KatiePig
1 year ago
Reply to  Byebyefw

One of my ex husband’s whores (whom I thought was a very close friend of mine) told me he’d been framed when I told her he has sex with girls as young as 16 (I have proof that that’s not it’s legal here) and wants to rape children according to the shit he posts online publicly. (Not a crime to want to do it here unless you act on it so I can’t have him arrested.)

I said really? So someone stole his pictures, made these fake accounts, hooked them to HIS email address, broke into our home, cracked the password on his computer, and then posted this shit from our house without us knowing? Really?

Then she went off on how I had no right NO RIGHT! to dare look at his computer! No concern about him being a pedo and spending the night in her home with her daughters. I’m the bad person for finding out he’s a a pedo but he’s just great for raping children. She has him over for holidays. Maybe they cruise high schools together looking for teens to rape, who the hell knows.

You can’t make this shit up. If I wrote this into a a story people would tell me it’s not believable because what kind of mother would do that. Well, unfortunately I’ve met plenty of them. There’s lots of female pedos out there too, they just don’t get caught.

Letgo
Letgo
1 year ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Many of these women have Dependent PDs. They will give their children up to stay with their provider.

KatiePig
KatiePig
1 year ago
Reply to  Letgo

Not the ones I’ve unfortunately known. My ex husband was not a provider to a single one of them. They do not have that excuse.

FuckWitFree
FuckWitFree
1 year ago
Reply to  KatiePig

KatiePig, wherever you live where it’s legal for adults to fuck 16 year old girls is not a place I’d ever want to live. UGH. GAG. So sorry. Gag again.

KatiePig
KatiePig
1 year ago
Reply to  FuckWitFree

It’s Nevada. A lot of people don’t know that but it’s legal in several states in the U.S. In fact 16 is the most common age of consent in the United States.

KatiePig
KatiePig
1 year ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Ugh, typo, I have proof of him sleeping with 16 year olds but unfortunately it is legal here. That’s what I was trying to say.

New Beginnings
New Beginnings
2 years ago

Please stop making this political with your off-topic racist, homophobic rants.

damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
2 years ago

how about rolling gaslighting, also known as re-writing history?

my X flirted heavily with friend of ours when we were all four out together for dinner. it was cringeworthy. i confronted him about it and he initially apologized. i suggested he apologize to the other man, his good friend of 25 years, and X did so (by phone).

in the midst of the breakdown of our marriage, X started re-writing the scene and by the end, he’d never even flirted and, even if he did, it was harmless because flirting is being alive (sounds Perelesque). “at least i’m alive and can flirt. not like you. you’ve given up on life.”

it wasn’t as if there were 3 people watching his behaviour and dealing with it, uncomfortably, or that he actually telephoned his friend to apologize for his behaviour.

again, the guy is dumb. i can’t believe i thought he was smarter than this behaviour.

ChumpMD
ChumpMD
2 years ago

I thought you meant Pootin and his “it’s not a war/invasion it’s a special military operation and none of our soldiers have harmed any innocent civilians” kind of gaslighting.

Off the crazy train
Off the crazy train
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpMD

That is another example. What the Kremlin is doing to ordinary Russians is gaslighting on a mindblowing scale. Genuinely devastatingly manipulative.

Nita
Nita
2 years ago
Reply to  ChumpMD

Thumbs up, that’s where i found the most relevance to the topic of the day, ChumpMD. Not just gaslighting par excellence but also quite a bit of DARVO, and even some reports I’ve detected sound like claiming to be the victim – in a world where many others have had to learn to stay inside their lines, so what makes that person so special? There’s probably more.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
2 years ago

Thanks ChumpQueen. Your comment bridges both sides of the aisle. Instead of right versus left we should be looking at this as gaslighters versus gaslightees. There is no political party ever that is entirely innocent, so if you’re here to attack one side or the other, find a new platform. You’ll hear your own echo better there.

WeAreTheChumpions
WeAreTheChumpions
2 years ago

And if people are going to start calling me names, I’ll bite back. It’s an example chumps need to see. Why are some people here so complacent and buying into what’s on the suface? This applies to all areas of our lives, and the reaction here is quite telling. I’m old. I stoped giving a shit if I’m accepted or not just because I don’t go along with group think. Maybe I’m like this because I used to be a chump and got tired of it. No one, from the family I grew up with, my exes, bosses, or society at large can tell to not see what is before my eyes and happpening in front of me.

Limbo Chumpian
Limbo Chumpian
1 year ago

So I’m a scientist. Degree in developmental biology. I also have a close relative who is FTM transgender. Sexual identity is incredibly complex and can be influenced by medications that were taken during pregnancy or congenital adrenal hyperplasia or androgen insensitivity syndrome or other unknown epigenetic influences. There’s no “agenda”; it’s just people trying to live authentic lives unlike cheating cheaters.

Chumpalongtime
Chumpalongtime
1 year ago

You have your rights- and so do I. I have supported this site and been a reader for over nine years. I have hosted Chump meeting to help newbies- regardless of their political stance. I profoundly disagree with your statements- i find them offensive. BUT i don’t get to voice my POLITICAL disagreements here- that is disrespectful of this site. This is supposed to be a safe place for Chumps- hijacking it for your own political validation/soapbox is wrong , selfish and quite frankly cowardly. That is what i am “seeing”.

walkbymyself
walkbymyself
2 years ago

My X was so successful at gaslighting me because he started by gaslighting himself.

“I have always known that I was bisexual.” This from a man who hasn’t been capable of sex with a woman for over two decades.

Why even argue with the guy?

KatiePig
KatiePig
2 years ago

Mine also has a whole team of people supporting his bullshit and I was dying of a disease that affected my cognitive abilities. I do remember telling my shrink I thought my husband was lying to me and he said, “Your husband would never do anything to hurt you.”

And I sat there for a moment and then said, “ What an incredibly stupid thing to say. You don’t even know him and there are terrifying statistics about how many husbands murder their wives but you’ve decided mine can’t even tell a lie? That’s not logical.”

And he got defensive and started saying paranoia was part of my illness and then claiming I thought my husband was attempting to murder me because I’m so paranoid. I’m glad that doctor left that clinic and moved because I might break his kneecaps if I could get ahold of him now. I look back on that and think was he just an evil doctor who enjoyed abusing his patients or was he fucking my ex too? Is that why my ex to me to a doctor across town? Maybe. I’ll never know. Oh well.

lulutoo
lulutoo
1 year ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Katie, so glad you stood up for yourself when your doctor made that incredibly stupid comment. Having been the victim of an evil therapist, I completely understand. Good for you. Wish I’d had your strength (tho I do now).

MrWonderful’sEx
MrWonderful’sEx
2 years ago

I just thought of an example. Klootzak would pretend he wasn’t openly flirting with other women right in front of me. It was not flirting at all! It was being “social!” Then the classic turn it back on me, “You just don’t want me to have any friends.” Funny that all his friends were female. Funny that he wasn’t up at 2 AM texting his few male friends from our bed on a burner phone. Only the ladies were on there. I was also to blame for him having a burner phone because I was such a shrew not wanting him contacting females in the middle of the night. I was ruining his social life. These women “needed” his advice, shoulder to cry on, you name it. Then he’d crawl in their pants. By the time I found the burner phone, I was not buying his song and dance.

Once you trust that they suck, you stop having faith in anything they say. It’s all lies, lies, and more lies. I remember doing the taxes and him lying right to my face about a dollar amount I could see on a statement in my hand. It’s insane.

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
1 year ago

I got the same thing when I pointed out it was proper for a married woman to go with other men or go over to their houses. She said “I told you when I married you that I am keeping my male friends. You don’t want me to have any friends.”.

Chumpalongtime
Chumpalongtime
2 years ago

WAC-this is not the forum. It brings up too many issues, debates and ignorance. As a Chump- i respect all opinions – when it is given respectfully and based on facts.

Shann
Shann
2 years ago

A few times turned into two and I’ve had to explain for two years that a few is three-ish and a couple is TWO. And cheating is cheating and it really doesn’t matter if it’s ONE TWO THREE etc. one is too many in this instance.
But seriously- a few and two are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in ANY case.
It’s maddening

oldcrone
oldcrone
2 years ago

Gaslighting is one of the ex’s favorite strategies.
Of course, outright lying will always be the first tool he pulls from his fuckwit toolbox, but gaslighting is easily his second favorite.
Some examples, some of which go back more than 40 years:
Cheater X: I didn’t get so drunk on our wedding night that I had to be carried out to the car. Me: Pictures don’t lie.
CX: That’s not a ‘rug burn’ on my knees, I have dry skin. Me: On just your knees?
CX: Similar situation with his penis, “I zipped myself up too fast”. Me: Were you putting on your pants upside down?
CX: I never told her that we would get married and move out to the country. Me: Then why did a realtor come by and drop off brochures for lots, he knew your name but called me by her name?
CX: Oh, that smell is from the liniment I rubbed on for my back pain. Me: I know what your liniment smells like…and it doesn’t usually smell like cheap perfume.
CX: No, you didn’t see me grab her butt, I think it’s time for new glasses for you. Me: Wha?
CX: I never threatened divorce. Me: I have you on tape.
CX: I never cheated. Me: STD tests tell a different story.
CX: I always loved you. Me: I’m out.

UpAndOut
UpAndOut
2 years ago

It took me a long time to understand gaslighting. The ex just didn’t lie blatantly- his MO was lied of omission.
But I come from a family of emotional gaslighters. My brother would punch my arm. I would cry & he would tell me “that didn’t hurt!”
My parents would tell me “you can’t feel that way” if I expressed anger or sadness. Or say something like “you don’t like that color, do you?”What a way to undermine a child’s confidence!

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
1 year ago
Reply to  UpAndOut

Yep. Truly does undermine it. *sigh*

marissachump
marissachump
2 years ago

Some of the more egregious examples of ex’s gaslighting (content warning for rape) in no particular order:
-Ex claimed I supposedly promised not to tell a mutual friend (who ex was trying to sleep with btw) about the cheating with one of the affair partners. Ex got PISSED at me that I told said friend and punished my viciously for breaking a promise I would never dream of making.
-Ex claimed to I had said I was okay with ex being polyamorous, so long as she never told me about it. *eye roll*
-Ex aggressively demanded that I give her pity because two people made “false rape accusations” against her. I told her that as a rape victim myself, I believe victims as a rule when they speak out and asked her to stop talking to me about it because it was extremely triggering. Instead she just got angry and more aggressive in demanding I accept her narrative of innocence and victimhood.
-After years of no contact, ex sent me text messages, which I did not respond to, telling me I was an awful person because I told people how dangerous she is and she claimed I was “isolating a person in recovery.” *serious eye roll* In recovery?? She should be in prison!

Violet
Violet
2 years ago

“Your doctor’s wrong. It’s not an STD.”

Chump_NO MO
Chump_NO MO
1 year ago

STBX also flirted with women right in front of me and denied it. Several times. He always goes out of his way to read a woman’s name tag. When I told him it sounds like flirting as he talks to her saying her name over and over, he started then acknowledging men and their name tags. ???? so then I thought I was just being overly jealous. Many other examples that I am just now thinking about over these past several weeks. I don’t know why I kept shoveling forgiveness his way and never investigated or pushed further. I was too tired, I was with him too long to be tapping sounds or hacking emails anymore these days. Denial, who knows.

D Day 7 weeks ago
Me: why do I have ?! After only being with you for the past 25 years?!
STBX : I have never had sexual contact with anyone
Me: The doctor says that’s impossible
STBX: there are cases where people have contracted this from public pools. Maybe even a wet towel.
Me: I haven’t been in any public pools or used any wet towels.
STBX: I take full accountability
Me: for what
STBX: all of these problems that we are in.
??????
I really tried to believe him. But when I realized that he was lying to my face willingly and repeatedly, I couldn’t UNsee that. My entire opinion of him is completely different. He has likely lied and definitely gaslit for many years. I always gave him and most people the benefit of the doubt that they didn’t earn. I’m working on it. CN is pretty damn inspirational.
Can’t wait to be away from him and see what life is like.

Rebecca
Rebecca
1 year ago
Reply to  Chump_NO MO

When I asked him (when we were engaged) why I had crabs and why didn’t he tell me when he had them first, he said his doctor told him he got them from sitting on a public toilet seat.
They suck!

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
1 year ago
Reply to  Rebecca

I think we’ve found a new acronym for the OW! “Public Toilet Seat” or PTS works just as well.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  NotAnymore

I like that, NA. AP’s put the pts in ptsd.

FuckWitFree
FuckWitFree
1 year ago
Reply to  Chump_NO MO

chump no mo, life is better and less “stabby” without the cheaters. It hurts, there’s a wound, but the knife is out and not causing the same kind of pain. You can heal. You’ll always have a scar, but it can be a useful reminder.

ChumpedForANewerModel
ChumpedForANewerModel
1 year ago

Thinking on this is very triggering but from the other hand, I can see most of us have had experiences that are surprisingly similar. The things they come up with are just insane. My STBX accused me of cheating as well stating that I got cals in the middle of the night at times. Well sorry FW, that was a call when we had alerts (yep military). Have been accused of acting crazy during the divorce (I have not spoken to him, emailed or texted him at all in over 8 months with anything other than my catch phrase). My catch phrase is ” run it through the attorneys”. How is that crazy? He had a ten minute rant when we were in mediation (different rooms but thin walls about all I ever said to him is run it through the attorneys………..). Even his FW lawyer said well that is what I advise my clients too. I think we could write a whole volume of gaslighting lines used by cheaters. Ugh!

Lost
Lost
1 year ago

So much gaslighting…
It was back to school night during Covid and I grabbed his phone to get the link…
But wait, why are you texting this woman who I ended a friendship with 7 years ago due to her lack of boundaries with me and my family????
I grab the phone and run into the other room and scroll and scroll. Hundreds and hundreds of texts – heart emojis selfies (same ones he sent me) the word ‘hunny’ a lot, no nudes, nothing outright saying we’re having an affair. But I was blind by this point and our teenager daughter was 5 feet away. I walked out of the house, made it a block, and then turned around. I knew I needed to look at his phone more. But, shocker, the texts had been deleted. Over the following weeks I actually bought his story – she’s needy ( he does collect needy people). She reached out every few months to chat (well, it had been 7 years since I had seen her). But the worst was ‘How can you not trust me? What else can i say?’ (Uh huh – ok this is my best friend and life partner so maybe? He wouldn’t do this to me! He loves me!).
6 weeks of me falling for this- it’s wild to think that I was so gullible and trusting. He actually had ME feeling bad! But then a friend told me to try to pull up the deleted texts on one of his old phones. That didn’t work, but I did search her name in his email (he used my password for everything) and they were sharing flight information. They’d been on several vacations together…. This he couldn’t deny. And it reminded me that as I unpacked his bag way back when after one of his solo trips (because he would just leave it on the floor for 6 months no joke) I found condoms. He said they must’ve been from when we were dating- over 15 years ago. I believed him immediately and completely- yes, you haven’t used that duffel in a while have you! Turns out they were using condoms when they had vaginal sex (not anal) but just until she got her iud put in.
Wild wild wild. Still dead inside. Still amazed by myself. Who would fall for that?!? I’m a top notch chump. I had no clue. None.
The gaslighting phase (that’s what I call those 6 weeks) almost feel like the worst part. Could you have any less respect for me???

bread&roses
bread&roses
1 year ago
Reply to  Lost

Oh, Lost. That is all so terrible, and all I can say is I’m routing for you. You are so much better than this dirtbag. Just get yourself through this time however you can, and know you’ll be able to face it all from a much more stable, safe place soon.

FuckWitFree
FuckWitFree
1 year ago
Reply to  Lost

devastating. so sorry. I understand and have been gaslit. I’ll never be the same and probably will never trust again. too painful. hopefully you got very thorough STD testing…

I Am Enough
I Am Enough
1 year ago

The thing about gaslighting is that in long-term relationships it’s “boiling a frog” and you’re the frog. The gaslighter isn’t necessarily consciously aware of what they’re doing, only that they know they have to “win” and that every interaction has a winner and a loser, that there is always blame to place. They never take responsibility therefore the blame is placed elsewhere. In my case, my maternal instinct to “keep the peace” and keep the kids safe, I didn’t challenge the BS. Eventually I did, but it was too late for it to have a positive effect on our relationship or the family.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago

Uneffing, as an election-stealing drag queen who reads Dan Savage columns about rimjobs to pre-teens and plays non-binary kink bingo with toddlers, I deeply resent WATC’s remarks, and so do all my murderous BLM and antifa friends. I have referred this vitally important discussion involving JK Rowling’s tweet catalog and gender bending Deep State pizza parlor pedophiles to my globalist Illuminati compatriots for review. 😉

Daaamn, this shit is weird today. What can one do but snark?

Lola Granola
Lola Granola
1 year ago

Good for Francine Lewis – exposing her husband’s cheating on UK national television.

He says it was “just sexting”.

She says, very clearly, that among the messages were detailed plans to meet.

Who will she believe? Him, or her lying eyes ????

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/britains-got-talent-star-claims-husband-is-cheating-on-her-with-best-friends-girlfriend-live-on-gb-news/278739

Whitecoatburnout
Whitecoatburnout
1 year ago

It works because you love them, and you trust them, and you cannot imagine that they would do anything to harm you or the relationship. Once you become suspicious, they trot out the old “you need to see a counselor” bullshit. My FW had me convinced for YEARS that I had a poor memory, because he would relate memories of meals we’d eaten, restaurants in cities we’d visited, and I could not recall them…and then my doctor told me I had an STD and suddenly, everything made sense. All I had to do was challenge him once with: “Pretty sure you must have me confused with OW” and he was shocked. Never had another “forgotten recollection” to share with me. And I let him get away with that FOR YEARS!

Gramchump
Gramchump
1 year ago

This was helpful to me. Aristotle reasoned people are persuaded on either Ethos, Pathos, or Logos.

Ethos puts the person as the authority or expert as a way to persuade. Gas Lighters use Ethos as being adamant and bully they are right. They are the authority/they know more than you and you second guess yourself. “Maybe he is right and I should believe him.”

Pathos, means using emotion to persuade. It helps the gas lighter sway the other with either through some emotional appear either through anger, indignant, or self pity plays of crying.

Last is Logos which uses data and facts to persuade. The Gaslighted can use false data or blur data to make their point. “Here check my phone, there is nothing in there.” Even though the true data was deleted.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
1 year ago

I truly thought Chump Nation was globally better than descending into petty, divisive sniping on a day our beloved (and exhausted) Chump Lady can’t moderate posts. She’s in the middle of a major life event — one we, of all people, are supposed to be supporting her through, and one that she’s very happy about.

Frankly, I am horrified. We owe her better. We owe each other better, too. This space is for shared pain. Minimizing the importance of respectful behavior is a bad fit, and it distracts from the site’s mission.

(If you don’t agree with CL’s boundaries, and you do feel intolerant of others’ identities that don’t fit your belief systems, you can easily blather unmoderated about it, without any pesky boundaries — simply create your own echo chamber website. There you can talk all together about how stupid the rest of us are, all day every day, unopposed. In fact, please do that if it’s your jam. The internet is big, and it totally has space for you. Make the space you want. Be our guest.)

Now, I’d like to refocus and honor CL. So, I’m going to spend my time writing a bit about the topic she has asked us to write about today. Gaslighting.

Much of the gaslighting from the Cowardly Liar was about small stuff, just small factual mismatches to keep my attention distracted — like saying he had done things, but only completing the most visible part of each task, so I then had to spend time and attention cleaning up little messes. The absent minded professor routine was common, and very effective on me. Kept me super busy, and distracted, every day.

One bigger one is the time he suggested that he said he hadn’t had sexual contact with a particular person, and later he explained that it wasn’t dishonest because they didn’t kiss and it was just hand stuff so it wasn’t “really sex”.

Another was post marriage, how he would email me with these long missives about his sad life and how he couldn’t make a support payment because of some unforeseen hardship, and in the very same hour post online about how he had just booked a multi-week overseas vacation or bought something very expensive he was super excited about.

Gaslighting is super shitty. And mean. A massive moral failing, in my view. And it’s not just about big stuff. Death by 1000 cuts.

FuckWitFree
FuckWitFree
1 year ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Thank you for your missive, in the first part. I agree.

It does, really, come down to this: “Gaslighting is super shitty. And mean. A massive moral failing, in my view. And it’s not just about big stuff. Death by 1000 cuts.”

Failed morals. It’s always the reason for the downfall.