The Mindfuck Only Has Three Channels

mindfuckchannelBW I have a cousin who is going through a miserable divorce with a cheater. Long marriage, double life, financial abuse. You guys know the drill.

I’ve been her cheerleader throughout, providing chump drubbings and 2x4s as necessary. (Apparently, the chump gene is hereditary. My cousin had a pretty bad congenital case of chumpiness, like yours truly.)

Anywho, she’s finally in the home stretch. She filed at last.

Guess who’s sniffing around her door all sad and furious?

That’s right — Mr. Disordered Cheaterpants with his Hail Mary plays for kibbles.

Oh shit, she really went and got a lawyer. Oh shit, he’s losing his chumpy meal ticket. Oh shit, he needs to reassert control.

If you’re a Mr. (or Mrs.) Disordered Cheaterpants, how are you going to reassert control over your chump? A show of hands, class! You’ve lived this. Tell me. What comes next?

That’s right! The MINDFUCK.

Oh sure, there’s been mindfucking all along, but there’s no mindfucking like the mindfucking that comes when you finally lawyer up and say Enough of This SHIT. I’m DONE.

Disordered Cheaterpants hate that. And if you’ve think you’ve seen manipulation before, by God, they really bring their A game when they feel the kibbles are slipping away. They amp up the drama, they amp up the chaos, they try super hard to get you invested in their insanity. And they will pull out every stop.

But really chumps, as I’ve said here before, and I was saying to my cousin again this afternoon — the mindfuck only has three channels. 

Charm

Rage

Self-pity

Your Cheaterpants will cycle through each one in pretty quick succession trying to get you back on the leash. If you know to look for it, it really becomes quite transparent.

OMG, a sad sausage sighting! Ooh, he went in for How Can You Do This To Me — you’re a terrible mother/father/Christian/Catholic/Methodist/employee/lay/Rotarian/baker of cupcakes. (FLIP!) AND HE’S NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT! Be afraid! Be very afraid! He’s going to get a lawyer and take you for EVERYTHING! The children! Your pension! Your collection of Franklin Mint Norman Rockwell plates! Yes, even the CHRISTMAS ornaments! (FLIP!) He doesn’t understand your hostility. Can’t we be friends? Remember when I gave you that christmas ornament with the kids? Ah, good times. This bitter, money-obsessed punishing person you are now, gosh, it’s not your best self. Give him a hug. Just for old times sake. Friends, right? (FLIP!) No? You won’t hug him? Don’t you know how VERY DIFFICULT this is for him right now? (FLIP!) You are going to REGRET THIS.

See? Three channels. Charm, rage, and self-pity. This is how you control a chump. Find their buttons and work ’em.

He texted my cousin: “Why can’t we just get this divorce holding hands, instead of using fists?”

Oh I don’t know, Mr. Disordered Cheaterpants. Because you bankrupted her? Spent her inheritance? Hooked up with strangers on Craiglist?

Divorce is so ugly! Why can’t she be a pal about it? Because you’re a sick, predatory fuck, that’s why.

Cheaters are so damn predictable. They’re always so, so sorry until someone lawyers up and then, poof! All their sorry evaporates. Can’t have chumps getting all uppity. Need to nip this uprising in the bud! Rage. Charm. Self-pity.

If you can’t intimidate your chump, seduce your chump. If you can’t seduce your chump, get them to feel very, very sorry for you and imply this is All Their Fault. If you can’t get your chump to feel sorry for you, intimidate your chump. Repeat.

It’s a sad day for Disordered Cheaterpants when Mindfuck TV goes on the fritz.

(FLIP!) No contact. Turn the channel off.

This column ran previously and I’m thrilled to report that my cousin is deliriously happy in her new life — new job, new man, new attitude. Cheaterpants continues to be an embarrassing loser who rarely speaks to his children.

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VulcanChump
VulcanChump
6 years ago

Rhys was all charm – but I’ll still avow the three-channel method. I had a dream last night where he screamed in my face, and when I woke up, I was stunned that he’d never actually done it.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
6 years ago
Reply to  VulcanChump

Cheaters use the one that works. Charm was extremely effective on me, what with our shared history and my lack of boundaries. He didn’t need to use other channels. Plus, he was a nice guy, after all, who didn’t mean to hurt anybody. (Not.)

NC is the only way I could kick my hopium habit. It’s the best boundary yet when it comes to the disordered!

MrsVain
MrsVain
6 years ago

yep.. .. for me it was pity. .. he always knew how to make me feel sorry for him and then he would turn it around on me.

all he had to do was drop his head and say “i am such a loser” or “i am just a fuck up” .. .. and i would fall all over myself to prove how he WASNT a loser or a fuck up… … . look at all these good things you did. see how you are a good dad to our boys, you are a good husband to me, you are such a good man.. .. .. see you just made a mistake. i know you did not mean to ____(insert current fuck up)____ … .. you were just confused. or mad. or frustrated or stressed… ..

hell he didnt even had to come up with his own excuses.. .. i made excuses for him.. . he very rarely had to use the other channels. although after 15 years i have seen all 3 of them.. and then he POOF! just disappeared for a year and a half after our divorce.. ..

now i can see all 3 channels clearly.. ..first he tries to charm me and is nice to me. he will say something sweet and/or offer to help me with something… .. but i am on to him so i usually refuse. then he goes for the self pity, tells me how miserable he is, or how he lost another job, or how he moved 7 times in 2 months. or ironically how his troll beats him up and throws bottles at his face and punches him and slashes his tires and broke his windshield.. . . of course i have absoluately nothing to say to any of that because i can see how he asked for it, he wants to live that want, and i believe he likes the drama of getting hit in the face with a beer bottles and all the rest.. .. so i will blow it off.. … then will come the rage… .. it is MY fault he is miserable. MY fault he lost his job. or had to move or his troll threw a bottle at his face .. .. etc. i am keeping the boys away from him. (only i am not) .. . i am talking bad about him and turning the boys against him (only i am not) .. .. oh the reason they dont like his troll is because i made them hate her (only i did not).. ..i am only going after child support because i am jealous and i dont want him to be happy… ..after the rage he usually hangs up on me and will ghost me for a few months.. .. recently we havent seen him since january 30 of this year.. ..

no contact is the only way to go. if i do have to talk to him (we have 2 boys) i am a master at grey rock. .. just boring, unemotional responses to anything he says. he hates that. if i really want him to leave me alone, i piss him off by pointing out the truth. he will give me the silent treatment for months. haha this time i am bound and determined not to reach out to him. i would change my cell number if i could (it is a work cell, i dont pay for it.. .. and i have to answer it) but i dont have to worry since he is ghosting me and the boys again.

TiredChump
TiredChump
6 years ago
Reply to  MrsVain

This post resonated !
I too made up excuses for cheater – he didn’t even have too. I even felt bad for him upon learning of affair with 26 year younger ho-worker!!! As in – “how terrible and broken you must be to live a double life.” Thanks to CN – I know I should’ve said “get out and don’t come back until you are ready to work on our marriage.”
Always wonder if I have strong need to fix/codependent tendencies or if I just couldn’t honestly face the fact we were wrong match and I should’ve cut losses earlier. I definitely spackled and carried him for out 30 year marriage!!!

Kibbleless
Kibbleless
6 years ago
Reply to  TiredChump

^^^ Same, I remember telling pastor in pre-wedding counseling that maybe he wasn’t the right one, pastor led me to believe it was bridal nerves, 25 years later and full narc abuse, I was right, I should have listened to my inner voice…

Evagale
Evagale
6 years ago
Reply to  MrsVain

Wow! I felt like I was reading a snipet of my life as well. I haven’t heard from the sad excuse of a father since April when I completely shut down his attempt at luring me back in

MidlifeBlast
MidlifeBlast
6 years ago

Listened from the distance of my own doorstep as he cycled through all 3 a few days ago, some lies, some flattery, some anger at me after having the lies spotted, a few subltle little threats thrown in, complaining about money, anger then directed at local authorities expecting me to join in and finishing off with gripes about body problems.

Help me

MrsVain
MrsVain
6 years ago
Reply to  MidlifeBlast

yep.. … not that the charm and the self-pity dont work on me anymore.. . i see a lot more of the rage channel.. .. spiked with little threats masquerading as jokes (cant even joke with you mrs vain).. . and failed attempts at making me look bad to our 2 boys (behind my back of course).. .. . then he will yell STOP BOTHERING ME and hang up.. … ???

you cant logic with crazy.
just shake your head and brush it off

MrsVain
MrsVain
6 years ago
Reply to  MrsVain

* now instead of not

Isawthelight
Isawthelight
6 years ago
Reply to  MrsVain

“You can’t logic with crazy.”
Perfectly stated!

Loulotte02
Loulotte02
6 years ago

I’m in a high-conflict divorce with my narcissistic hopefully STBX…I moved out of the marital home last August (I was supposed to live in during the divorce, by law, but that is another looong story…) in order to avoid the daily mindfuck and the so infamous three channels I kept enduring. So far, I only set his channel to “rage”, since he cannot accept my moving out…
I come here daily to reinforce my grey-rock attitude (3 kids under 18, no contact is unfortunately impossible…). He still knows how to push my buttons and making me feel guilty for everything bad happening to him…
This too shall pass, as the pain that I thought was infinite…

Lola Granola
Lola Granola
6 years ago
Reply to  Loulotte02

Scheduling software will minimise contact over the kids.

Grey Rock is essential, as are the “If, Then” type of emails:

If you drop the kids off at 3pm, I will take them to X, and you can pick them up next Wednesday at 2pm instead.
If you don’t have the kids ready for when I arrive at 5pm to collect them, I will have to inform the court.
Jacy needs more asthma medication. You need to collect it from the pharmacy today. If you don’t collect Jacy’s asthma medication today, I will have to inform the court.

Plain and simple. No emotions; no negotiations.

Just actions and consequences.

ChumpChops
ChumpChops
6 years ago
Reply to  Loulotte02

Loulotte02, put all his crap through the UBT. That will soon get rid of your guilty feelings and put the responsibility for this situation right back where it belongs. Keep contact minimal, businesslike and emotionless, only what is strictly necessary for the kids. The further away you get from the relationship, the easier it will be not to respond to him pushing your buttons. Avoid phone or face-to-face contact. You don’t have to talk to him just because he wants you to. text or brief emails are enough for most arrangements. You can take time to think about phrasing then and not risk being shouted down or insulted and abused verbally. He will hate that. Freedom will be yours.

50 Chump
50 Chump
6 years ago

Perfect article for my life today.
Today is the day I meet my lawyer at noon to start the process. I’ve had enough.
Last night I told my wife of my appointment, and she said “Your going to fuck everything up! Your going to lose your ass! “, and then slams the door.
A hour later she comes and asks if she can have some of the soup I made all nicey nice…..

I got the rage first and then the charm. Can’t wait to see how this unfolds

Soldiering On
Soldiering On
6 years ago
Reply to  50 Chump

SOUP NAZI TIME!!!!

I know it’s petty, but she doesn’t deserve your special soup. Let her open a can of Campbell’s.

rickb89
rickb89
6 years ago
Reply to  50 Chump

Good luck dude, gray rock and no contact as much as humanly possible. Say nothing to her, ever about your personal feelings throughout the divorce process. Document everything. This is the most lethal opponent you’ll ever fight in your life so quietly acknowledge that and beat her in the stealth game.

No matter how you feel, don’t share it, she’s your enemy.

It’s all about winning this thing, and protecting your kids if you have any. Btw, i’m a guy and yet still managed to get the house and full custody.

FicoChump
FicoChump
6 years ago
Reply to  50 Chump

Be careful do not let her in to your house during tbe divorce do not meet in private. She can make things up or say you hurt her etc. When you email her cc lawyer and refrain to insult her even over the phone or email. she might have a plan. They are evil.

rickb89
rickb89
6 years ago
Reply to  FicoChump

That is absolutely great advice

Khris
Khris
6 years ago
Reply to  rickb89

+1 on this. When ex and I were still living in same house she would attempt to start arguments with me on almost a daily basis. I just didn’t react and kept a calm and level tone as my lawyer instructed. When that didn’t work for her, she actually called the police and said I was threatening her (a lie). Fortunately, my teenage sons were around to vouch that I did not. She also called the police from work one Saturday claiming that I had tried to break into her car. Only problem was that I wasn’t anywhere nearby. I was 65 miles away visiting some friends and had receipts to prove my whereabouts. She was coming up with these plots to get me “removed” from the house so she could claim abandonment. It didn’t work. And after the few times, the police wouldn’t even take her seriously anymore and actually warned her that if she kept doing this, I could file charges against her. That is when it stopped.

Just remember, this is NOT the person you thought you were married to.

BreadwinningChump
BreadwinningChump
2 years ago
Reply to  Khris

“This is not the person you thought you were married to.” I need to tattoo that on my forehead like in Momento. Ok, temporary tattoo! With about 9 months since D-Day 2.0 I am a believer in my “gain a life” future even if it’s taking a looooong time.

NotMyFault
NotMyFault
6 years ago
Reply to  Khris

“Just remember, this is NOT the person you thought you were married to.” Yes, I am still trying to figure out WHO I was married to (after 35 years). The divorce process was so ugly, but, at least he revealed his true self. And still, has never acknowledged his six year affair or his $30,000 in losses at the casino. I guess I did not deserve to know.

BowTie
BowTie
6 years ago
Reply to  NotMyFault

Hmmmm – on the casino thing. An acquaintance of mine who is of a less than honest mind-set once suggested that I take a few thousand out of the bank at a time, go to the casino and eat a nice sandwich.

I’m sure that others have thought of this as a way to conceal funds. Not that it happened in your case (I didn’t do it either) – but just sayin’ ……

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
6 years ago
Reply to  50 Chump

Get ready for the pity! The crocodile tears are coming. You are mighty to file. Do not engage with your cheater. NC is the path to freedom!

Jgirl
Jgirl
6 years ago

Sometimes I feel like I got shafted lol because my cheater never did big on the seducing part (there’s a bit of speculation on my part that he’s gay). He’s not much one for the chase (unless your one of his howorker, of course!) and even during this separation process he never lifted a finger to try and romance me back. Self-pity, at the best, when he acts all hurt and bumbled. But for the rest of the time, rage and its variations is all I got! From stone-walling to silencing my arguments to upping, indimidating fury, never sidestepping on that “you’re not the boss of me” attitude.

But he’s “a good person”, it’s just me who can’t see it! Of course, because the chump glasses are now OFF 🙂

MrsVain
MrsVain
6 years ago
Reply to  Jgirl

sounds just like wasband.. . .. he is currently accusing me of trying to control and manipulate him.. .. now sure how tell him that his 11 year old wants to talk to him is controlling or manipulative but *shrugs* that is how he “thinks” of me.. .. also apparently i have ALWAYS controlled and manipulated him thru our 15 years together (12 married).. .. you know that is why he was able to drink, use meth, spent all his paycheck, stay out all night and ultimately find his soul mate in the neighborhood party girl because i was soooOOOOoo control and manipulated him to my will… .. *rolls eyes* stupid fucks

self pity worked for those 15 years. i honestly thought he was just confused and never knew how much his actions were hurting me *sigh*.. .. now all i see is rage.. it is MY fault his life sucks. his troll calls me every once in a while to tell me “HE IS A GOOD MAN”.. .. and then she hangs up on me when i remind her that good men do not cheat on their wives or abandon his children.. .. he doesnt have to seduce or chase, these meth heads alcoholics just chase after him and save his poor little self from his evil wife (now ex).. . .he convinces them he is just so misunderstood.. .. ugh.. .. i cant fight them all off and he doesnt have the balls (or desire) to tell them no. ..

BeowulfSabrina
BeowulfSabrina
6 years ago
Reply to  Jgirl

Mine actually said, “you’re not the boss of me!” so funny how they are not original. Same with “I’m a good person”. If he weren’t trying to hurt me financially, I might laugh. I’m too busy still being horrified that I married a monster.

Giddy Eagle
Giddy Eagle
6 years ago
Reply to  BeowulfSabrina

I’m 18 months post separation and still reeling from the fact that he maintained a second life for oh, 20 years. Our daughter is almost 16 — you do the math.

Suffering from depression and PTSD, which has really put a strain on my relationship with my daughter. She’s now lashing out at me in the most brutal ways.

After a major blowout, she ran off to be with her father. She had barely spoken to since DDay.

Now he’s enjoying “favorite parent status” and playing hero dad. Bought her a $20k car, ski vacations, weekend getaways, etc.

I grew up in a divorced family know she needs her father, which is why I didn’t kick his ass to the curb after DDay #1 five years ago.

I’m struggling. With just the two of us, it’s difficult to brush off the insults, surly behavior and cold shoulder. I take it far too personally but can’t shut it off. On top of the divorce and losing my mom, I’m an emotional wreck.

KH73
KH73
6 years ago
Reply to  Giddy Eagle

That’s awful! I hope you are seeing a therapist. I went down a similar rabbit hole of PTSD and depression and considered suicide before I finally found a therapist that helped convince me to talk to my doctor about the depression.

Over the next year I tried 3 different medications and found one that is working well for me. Once I found it, I was able to hold my tongue better around my daughters and this has helped our relationship tremendously.

It really sucks that chumps, who have depression and PTSD from the betrayal of the most trusted person in their lives, then have added in the pain of children that are not mentally mature enough to see past the sparkle of their disordered parent.

I hear that one day they will better understand. I look forward to that day.

Giddy Eagle
Giddy Eagle
6 years ago
Reply to  KH73

Yes, I’m on medication. Two for depression, one for PTSD. Seeing a therapist (same one we used MC) since DD#2. Also seeing hospice grief counselor.

Some days I see the light, other days are darkness. I suppose that’s a bit of progress from crying all day, everyday.

I know it effected my daughter to watch me in so much pain. There you want room for her to express her pain. She thinks I’m week and selfish.

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
6 years ago
Reply to  Giddy Eagle

Oh Giddy Eagle,
I am so sorry for all you are going through.
You are so not weak and selfish.
You always try so hard and you put your daughter first.
Your daughter is so young and it is obviously difficult for her to see the truth.
You are the sane loving parent.
Keep strong, just do your best each day. She will come to see the truth.
Children at this age are allured by materialistic things. These things aern’t lasting, they don’t have heart.
You are all heart. One day she will see this.
I am so sorry for your sad loss of your Mom.

YOU are mighty Giddy Eagle, like your name!
Wishing you more days filled with light!

Xxxxxx
Peacekeeper

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  BeowulfSabrina

Yes! Yes! Yes! Although, it does feel good once you can start to laugh at some of their statements. My attorney told me that I will end up being fine because I am already able to laugh about some of the ridiculousness that is my STBX.

13 Years a Chump
13 Years a Chump
6 years ago
Reply to  Jgirl

Mine has all 3 channels, but the charm channel was always the one that got me to stay. And he’s trying it like crazy now, even post-divorce. I prefer the rage and pity channels, because they make it easy to remember why I divorced him.
What I find fascinating about my ex is that he can switch to all 3 channels in one text message. (Texting is his preferred contact method, unfortunately. I wish he would call so I could just hang up. I always end up reading the texts, and I can’t go NC because of young kids.)

Nejla
Nejla
6 years ago

I got “my family wizard” after chumps insisting it is the only way. At first I resisted because it is expensive but now that I have it (I think it was 175$ for the year) I realize how amazing it is. If you are not divorced yet, have it put in the settlement that you want it paid by both parties…
I paid it myself (after the divorce) and then sent an email saying that it is much easier to share all the kids school and after school activities with him this way. (You can even pay child support and spousal support through the app) I said in a BIFF way that this is how I will communicate from now on unless there is an emergency.In reality, it is great not to have to receive texts from him and courts love this app because it is a time stamped way to document. It also is good to not to have to save a million emails and texts on your smart phone because part of the payment goes towards data saving.
I highly reccommend it for chumps who have to communicate with the “fuckwit they had kids with”.
FYI, he resisted at first but if he sucks at it you can still respond through the app. It was almost like pee pee training a puppy;) It takes a while for the disordered to get on board, but with consistency they muddle through.

ChumpChops
ChumpChops
6 years ago

YES. I got/get all three channels in long emails. I didn’t respond to them but did put them through the UBT. Very cathartic. If another one arrives I will respond “All correspondence is filed with my lawyer.” I’m done with this game. Switch off.

StarStuffGoddess
StarStuffGoddess
6 years ago
Reply to  ChumpChops

Copying to your lawyer! Yes!

I did that, too, after his screwing around for months with a negotiation we were trying to complete.

“As a courtesy to you, just want to let you know that I am now CCing my attorney on all communications on this matter, j”

BANG! Immediately, he answered questions, provided documentation, and his tone changed completely.

Of course, I don’t really copy my lawyer on everything, but saying so sure helped!
And of course, he believes me, because l was always so dang honest, and I don’t think he’d conceive of ME lying to HIM. Funny, what I learned from living with a lying cheating bastard.

I does help cut down on the Mindfucking. (Which I might say, is the only kind of f*ing I ever really got from him…sorry, TMI….)

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
6 years ago
Reply to  Jgirl

Be thankful, mine did once and gave me an STD.

Whatringofhellisthis
Whatringofhellisthis
6 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Totally true datdamwuf! Jgirl You’re lucky you didn’t get the seduction channel. (He probably skipped it bc he knows he sucks at it lol.) If you don’t wind up with an STD all you’ll get is a temporary reprieve before they slam you back down again. I finally got it thru my head that the relationship was never safe honest or predictable… Why would mind fuck channel surfing be any different. It’s all about getting what they want with the least amount of effort. Once they get it they don’t want it. Same as the marriage. Same in the divorce. Mine wants to get away with skipping discovery because he committed so much fraud and has hidden everything. So I’m getting sobbing with snot and drool victim pity party… then charm and “kind gestures” and calm talking lol… then relentless calling texting and rage… back to pity party he’s going to be homeless and my lawyer is trying to destroy him. Chuckles????

Soldiering On
Soldiering On
6 years ago

BEEP BEEP! Karma Bus is a’comin’!!!

Whatringofhellisthis
Whatringofhellisthis
6 years ago
Reply to  Soldiering On

????apparently there’s a little thing called a subpoena ????beep beep!

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
6 years ago

This parsing of Disordered Behavior has been one of my favorite CL insights for a long time. It helped me predict the emotional tenor of my interactions with the EX and to stop expecting anything else. For a long time I thought these were just his moods–somehow shifting like a cloud bank over his real self. But they are the real self. No more fiddling with the dial trying to get better reception so I can see the “co-parenting peacefully” channel or the “I’m sorry” channel or the “moving on” channel. Nope–rage, pity, and charm–those are the only channels. Sometimes I can adjust the volume, mostly by keeping my distance (preferably across several state lines), but that’s all I can control.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
6 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

You can shut it off. Consider parallel parenting. We gave kids, but, by following a strict schedule, I am able to be contact free. Yippee!

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
6 years ago

Watch that the rage channel doesn’t escalate to the physical. Exasshole brought a gun to the rodeo eventually. I still have a PO on him, thankfully he’s afraid to go to jail or I wouldn’t be writing this.

Jedi Hugs!

Hopefloats80
Hopefloats80
6 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Mine escalated to strangulation in a public place. On video. Just got a call saying no charges since it’s hard to tell if he was hugging me or strangling me. Wtf??? I give up

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Hopefloats80

Damnit. I hate it when the system lets people down when — especially when it comes to Domestic Violence. I say “especially” in these cases, because the system (in my experience) lets DV victims down far too often.

Please go to http://www.thehotline.org/ — it is the National Domestic Violence Hotline. Give them a call. If nothing else, they are fantastic support when you need someone to talk with about the situation — someone who really gets it. But, they also have a lot of resources and aren’t shy with advice on how to stay safe.

Take Care,
Jess’s Mom

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Hopefloats80

So, your testimony that he was strangling you, was not enough?

WTF???? That’s bullshit!

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
6 years ago
Reply to  Hopefloats80

X nearly broke my arm in a crowded elevator with our small child there screaming at him to stop. Terrifying. Even 7 months after D I’m scared he will come kill me.

I’m as completely NC as you can possibly be with minor kids. Strict scheduling and I use a sitter for most visitations (which are all public– my child’s choice backed by court order).

I’ve been scared of him for 25 years and this “feels” normal to me????????????????????????.

No contact is my hope for a different future.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago

(((hugs))) I’m sorry. Been through the RO and an anti-stalking notice. Had police drive by my house for awhile. Thankfully, we’ve been separated/divorced for almost 15 years. He’s another woman’s problem now.

IIWII
IIWII
6 years ago

MotherChumper99 – please get a restraining order if you haven’t already gotten one. If you have been physically assualted before and are still frieghtened talk to a lawyer or the police. There is no reason for you to live in fear!

Many many prayers to you today.

Devastated
Devastated
6 years ago
Reply to  IIWII

Mother, Sunflower, IIWII
Etc

Sometimes the order causes more harm.
I tried that (while he was trying to get one on me too!), to no avail.
I had actual video evidence of him attacking me with our baby in my arms. My baby was screaming and putting his hands in the air. ????????????
His mouth was open wide. He was terrified. The mysoginist judge didn’t grant me the order. He said I “provoked” the monster!!!! All I did was confront him about deviant porn, cheating, possible homosexual affairs etc.
The judge didn’t like me at all. DA dropped charges. Said no evidence!!!!!!
Again, I had video proof.
DV shelters aren’t so great either. Not in my case. I didn’t have any help. Nobody gave a damn. These violent women beaters have all the rights. They have to literally attempt murder on you for them to go to jail. And, sadly, unjustly, they still get custody or visitation.

The world isn’t always fair.
Best to run like hell.
Fight fire with fire. Get some protection and use it.

13 Years a Chump
13 Years a Chump
6 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

I got my shotgun out of the house before filing for divorce. He can be so scary when enraged. I’ve been punched in the face, and he is an ex-hockey player with boxing training.
My ex is on probation for theft from a non-profit, for now I actually think he won’t pull anything that might land him in prison.

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
6 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Super mighty! ❤️

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

What your ex did is utterly horrifying. I’m grateful you survived.

You are one mighty lady, Dat. (((hugs)))

free2bme
free2bme
6 years ago

Absolutely spot on.
CHARM- I’m so sorry, I have such guilt and regret, How could this happen to us (trace your footsteps Cheater) I am sorry for a million things (Why a million?..lol, I got a letter from 1 woman, so….there is more? YAY), you are an amazing, beautiful, strong person (yup), You have no reason to beieve me, but I have stopped “all of THAT” (I don’t believe you, and all of what?)

RAGE- After I started making my own decisions …( I f-ing hate you, you are a joke, I will tell everyone you cheated on me, You’re a joke, I never loved you, You are a horrible mother- that is why I left, I will quit my job and you will have nothing if you move ( I did move, and that is one promise he kept!)

SELF-PITY- What about me?, I have terrible guilt, I was an amazing father, I don’t have anything, you can have it all, I trust you more than myself, I feel bad about myself emotionally, I want you to pray for me.

Turn the channel and go No Contact new chumps! It’s the only solution to the madness!

MrsVain
MrsVain
6 years ago
Reply to  free2bme

same exact excuses i heard.. .. only he would say sorry for everything (everything? really from day 1? even the good times we had? )

NotAgain
NotAgain
6 years ago
Reply to  MrsVain

Oh I hear you. Same here. He would say, “I’m sorry for everything I’ve done wrong all these years, I’m sorry for what I did with howorker, etc etc….”

Then I got “I will not accept the blame for everything wrong in our marriage. It’s all your fault. You’re a horrible mother. You’re boring and a buzzkill.” Etc etc

Now it’s, “I’m not a smart man”. “I didn’t even know what I was expecting when we got married, had kids, bought a house… “Etc etc

Honestly, I’m waiting for either more charm or rage. I’m sure as I write this he is raging at me in his head because I’m upset that he has never seen how I have always made our family the priority in my life unlike him. He thinks that’s absurd when it suits him and then complains when he doesn’t think I’m doing right by the family. It’s a catch 22 and I’ll never live up to anything he wants. Thing is, he’s the one who cannot live up to any expectations, even his own because he thinks he is the victim and blames me for his life choices. He is absent in personal responsibility in all aspects of his life.

Lola Granola
Lola Granola
6 years ago

I am also so grateful for this post, because it’s helped me to remember the cycle.

My last date/attempt at relationship – with a mother-enmeshed man with a covert harem which I uncovered quickly, to his dismay – gave me a front-row seat for all three.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
6 years ago

One of my favorite posts! When I found out about his affair, he turned into the saddest sausage.

When I moved out and switched all communications to email a few weeks later, he went all cold rage and disdain, and cycles started. Divorce negotiations were hell, like a long drawn out poker game of who will blink first… On our last session of negotiation before court, he went into a rage so intense in front of five trained professionals that he had to be escorted out of the room. I was chocked to see that level of rage from the same person who for a decade came across as a highly intelligent individual who practiced loving kindness mediation daily… A master at image management…

The lesson here: New chumps… If you see any hints of the rage channel, do not put yourself in a situation where you are alone with a cluster B. Given that you have proof of their betrayal, you are perceived as a threat to their image, and that is something that will have them literally go insane. Stay safe, switch all communications to email so you can document their abuse and be sure to surround yourself with people who can serve as your witnesses, you will be glad to have documentation!

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Chumptitude

>>”If you see any hints of the rage channel, do not put yourself in a situation where you are alone with a cluster B.”

Agree wholeheartedly. Datdamwuf mentioned this above as well. It cannot be emphasized enough for the new Chumps — keep yourself and your kids safe; diligently watch out for the rage channel.

My STBX loved to flip between charm (or “ass-kiss” mode … tears, apologies — the works) and self-pity (he’s the eternal victim of the universe’s wrath). When he hit the rage channel, it usually manifested as ice-cold stonewalling, an empty-pitch black look in his eyes, and some kind of evil smirk that always tripped me up. Only rarely did he appear to be harboring violent thoughts.

At the end, when I unmasked him — and his 20+years of deception, he went completely unhinged. The authorities said he “flagged for homicidality” and I had to get an order of protection.

KNOWING (and believing when they show you) what they are capable of is the most important piece of keeping yourself and your kids safe. Don’t let hopium blind you to the potential danger with the disordered assholes.

Soldiering On
Soldiering On
6 years ago
Reply to  JesssMom

OMG. “Flagged for homocidality” has to be one of the most chilling phrases I’ve ever read.

I was a bystander in DV between my mentally disordered father and my hapless mother; she finally managed to get out of the marriage alive and I made it my mantra that “the first time he hits you should be the last time he has the opportunity”. It really worked for me.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Soldiering On

DV is such an ugly, damaging thing. I’m glad your mom made it out — and kudos to you for getting through it with the healthiest possible conclusion in a horrible situation (that one hit is too much).

I also witnessed (and experienced) abuse as a child. Regretfully, as I’m sorting through in therapy, I had internalized (subconsciously) that I deserved the crappy treatment. I’m working hard to flip that script. I’ll be damned if my daughters follow the generations-long abuse cycle as I did. Nope. Never again.

Soldiering On
Soldiering On
6 years ago
Reply to  JesssMom

Atta Girl! Step by step; it’s an ongoing process.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
6 years ago

*meditation not mediation :)…

TiredChump
TiredChump
6 years ago

Beware the “self-pity” channel fellow chumps.
That’s where I’ve let my guard down — because when I feel sorry for him I engage and want to fix “him” or “us.”
The end result – He ends up feeling better about himself (e.g. “it was (check one) my family of origin/ my depression/ a midlife crisis/ your over-focus on the kids that made me cheat”)….
And I end up losing another piece of my soul.

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  TiredChump

So true; to chumps the self-pity channel is like the Siren’s song–hard to resist because we are compassionate and WE.CAN.HELP.THEM. But we can’t, because they are disordered and their self-pity is feigned.

Hannibal Lecher kept me in a marriage for over a decade by convincing me he was vulnerable, and needed me. Apparently not as much as he needed to prey on students, though.

Trying for Mighty
Trying for Mighty
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I am finally learning to resist the “sad siren song” that drew me back in when I was making good albeit painful progress toward a divorce, for months of hysterical bonding weird sex with my husband who had decided he could only be sexual when acting as a woman. I know this probably represents a huge self esteem problem on my part, but here’s how I did it. I remind myself that not only can’t I “fix” him, the idea that I can fix him implies that I have a lot of power–that it’s a form of self aggrandizement to think I can fix him–and then I take myself to task for thinking I’m “all that.” Yep. To resist the urge to jump back in when he starts playing the pity channel I have to tell myself only someone who has inflated ideas of their own power would think they could fix him.

It Is What It Is
It Is What It Is
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

The number one indicator of sociopathy is self pity. A sociopath with go to self pity more than any other channel because people let their guard down when they feel sorry for someone. My ex used the self pity channel to get sympathy from others because I was “cold and unforgiving”, meaning my eyes had been opened and I saw him for the douche that he was. He mostly used rage and charm with me. I called the police when he broke into the house when I wasn’t home (I changed the locks as was my right). He sent me an email with an elaborate story about rescuing the cat by climbing in the window, wasn’t he the hero. Rage, then charm. So glad he is wifetresses problem now!

livefortoday2
livefortoday2
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Thanks for posting that tired chump. I could see me getting pulled back in. Especially when Divorce Care tells us to own our part of the breakup, where I went wrong. There are some things I did in my marriage that I will not repeat again – but to tell him those things as disordered as he is will only backfire on me. Learning about me is a really good thing. You could share that with a normal x spouse – but not him.

He has zero remorse and empathy.
I give him nothing to work with now.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago
Reply to  livefortoday2

Tell Divorce Care (whatever it is) to fuck off 🙂

Did you cheat? No.

Josephine
Josephine
6 years ago

Thank you for this– I was thinking of going to DivorceCare at a local church, but if it’s just going to be about Chumps being blamed for the narc’s cheating then is the last thing upon which I want to spend my precious time and money.

TiredChump
TiredChump
6 years ago

Have no idea why my comment is awaiting moderation???

twiceachump
twiceachump
6 years ago
Reply to  TiredChump

Happens to me sometimes too – I think it’s to make sure we aren’t trolls!!

Soldiering On
Soldiering On
6 years ago
Reply to  twiceachump

I sometimes get told “That’s a duplicate post” when it isn’t. (Solution: close the blog.)

Just now was told that a two-word reply to a post was too short!

Gawd, always a critic!

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago

Mine is the covert variety of flaming dog turd and pathologically conflict avoidant, so the rage channel doesn’t get clear reception. Instead I get the passive aggressive channel with him starring in his favorite shows “Lost in a Dark Cave,” “I Don’t Know Why I Did It,” and “I Can’t Talk to You When You’re Angry.” These shows have little dialogue and leave much to interpretation.

The night before I left (August 9), after 13 years of marriage without raising his voice, he finally did an Emmy-award-worthy performance of true narcissistic rage complete with yelling and clenched fists in which he told me he hasn’t been happy for a long time because I can never take criticism and never take any blame for anything and he could never talk with me about his feelings because I always intimidate him, and even now he knows he’s saying always and never when it’s not actually always and never, but that’s just the way he talks and I should know what he really means and not pick apart his word choices like I always do, instead I should be able to read between the lines to understand his feelings and how bad I always make him feel about himself, especially that one time when he realized that he was so depressed because I always invalidated his feelings and then when he tried to tell me all the ways I invalidated him, I even invalidated his feelings of invalidation! I never knew Woody could go so long without breathing!

Of course, all this talk about me invalidating him only began after he started acting in all the disordered ways cheaters do when leading a secret life while still wanting to be seen as a Great Guy and World’s Best Husband. After DDay1, which was the discovery of inappropriate text messages that raised my suspicions, I had a series of 5 more increasingly incriminating DDays in which I learned that for several years he’d been having emotional affairs with married women before upgrading to fucking my niece after she moved in with us for college.

Of course he felt bad about himself when I engaged him in conversations he didn’t want to have about his shitty behavior, but he made his own bad.

And yes, before I drove out of his life, he did hug me and told me he’ll always love me, with a little tear in his eye….

Rebecca
Rebecca
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Ugh, I hate it when they say what they don’t mean and don’t really mean what they say…and we have to magically know which is which?
And about the DDays, THAT DDay, I’m so sorry. You deserve much, much better. (((Hugs)))

PS Hoping your niece is wishing up too.

MrsVain
MrsVain
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

OMG!!! yes.. you just told my story in much better words then i ever did.. .. wasband was super passive aggressive.. .. we never really had fights in the 15 years we were together (12 married). .. which was why i was super confused when he turned into a raging angry hateful man .. . blaming me for everything.. . ..

the only difference was i invalidated his feelings because i “NEVER LISTENED”.. .. apparently he “ALREADY TOLD ME THAT” and i “NEVER LISTEN” to him when he tries to explain.. .. *shrugs* .. .maybe because i had already heard the same lame excuse.. .. hahaha which is super funny that he left me for the neighborhood party troll who never lets him talk and interrupts him all the time.. ..

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  MrsVain

My story, too! I constantly get “you intimidate me. I am too afraid to share feelings/ opinions/ have sex with you because I don’t feel safe”.

Well I don’t buy the sex one anymore. It is pretty clear that he has no interest in me sexually for whatever reason, NOT because he doesn’t feel “emotionally safe” That’s obviously bullshit.

BUT, sometimes I still buy into the other two. Could someone deconstruct this for me and tell me why it is ridiculous? I need help not to believe it.

Oh yeah, and my favorite response to “You made me do X” is “You’re six foot eight inches tall and weigh 450 lbs. It is not physically possible for me to make you do anything”.

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago

Differently Chumped, without knowing your communication style, it would be hard to say. When you are angry do you yell, call him names, threaten him, press hot buttons to get to him, try to win arguments rather than understand and resolve them in ways that keep you both happy, etc.? Those kinds of things could lead to a partner feeling intimidated and unsafe. But if you are a chump and he is a narcissist, which most hard-core cheaters tend to be, it’s possible that his fragile ego just can’t handle difficult conversations no matter how delicately you walk on his eggshells. Thus, you intimidate him just by trying to talk about anything he doesn’t want to talk about.

In the case of my STBX, he’s intimidated whenever I’m angry no matter how calmly and rationally I try to express it. He takes even small differences of opinion as invalidating. When I disagree with him or don’t like something he likes, that makes him feel bad about himself, which of course is my fault. Covert narcissists easily get their feelings hurt and project the blame for their pain onto others even when the cause is within themselves, such as when they know they are guilty of cheating and lying. They want to feel superior and can’t stand feeling like shitty people, so they have to find a reason to justify lying and keeping secrets from you.

Giddy Eagle
Giddy Eagle
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Thanks for the explanation. I am a very strong willed woman and he’s a manipulative narcissist. He used to be passive aggressive. (I remember once saying to him “you say the meanest things in the nicest ways” — I was too young to process it. He too, was afraid of conflict and wouldnsucknup instead of engage. Eventually it turned to anger and contempt and almost every interaction left me cold.

My plan, and please tell me whether this is. Agood or bad idea CN, is to spill the beans to his father after the divorce is finalized.

His father, who adored me, hasn’t spoken a word to me since he learned of his affair and our split. I have no doubt he has no clue that his rat-bastard son is a psychopath. Of course, he won’t come to that conclusion, but detailing his “bad behaviors” as STBX likes to refer to them will be a long overdue delight.

Cocaine addict ✔️
Sexual harassing my friend and trying to fuck her in my home while my daughter and I were asleep✔️
Emotional affair with high school girlfriend✔️
Affair with stranger ✔️
Affair with mutual friend ✔️
Lying insrriage counceling✔️
Cheating before we got prefnant✔️

Yeah, tell me how I’m responsible for the demise of our marriage.

Oh yeah, I drove him into the arms of another woman. And another. And another. And another.

Giddy Eagle
Giddy Eagle
6 years ago
Reply to  Giddy Eagle

Sorry about the typos. Hope you can infer…

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago
Reply to  Giddy Eagle

Giddy Eagle, since the chumps had mostly moved past this article by the time you raised your question, I suggest you repeat it as an original post over in the general forum. You’ll get lots of good advice there and it won’t get buried in hundreds of comments on the front page.

Giddy Eagle
Giddy Eagle
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Thanks. I don’t even know about the forums. I’ll find them.

NotAgain
NotAgain
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

I agree. Trying to explain this to them doesn’t even work in the slightest bit. He just wants to feel good about everything all the time without actually doing any of the work to get there. Instead I’m blamed for his life choices.

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

At first I did not yell, but after about a year I just got so angry at his lack of reply/response/remorse that I would yell. I pushed his buttons just to get him to say SOMEthing.

Throughout the last 9 years it was a mixed bag. I can’t say I never yelled but it’s definitely not my communication style. I avoid conflict.

I can see how he would feel unsafe around me. Also, he is the only one who truly knows what he is feeling. But I still smell a rat. I can’t explain it.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

If you invalidate Woody, does he become particle board?

You rock – keep that humor!

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago

Breaking news on the particle board! Right after I posted my answer to Cactus about who in the family knows, I got a call from my brother. Woody has asked the niece to move back in with him and she crossed the country in no time to return to the marital residence, completing the process of taking my place. He wrote a very long email to my brother and sister-in-law trying to “address their concerns” and justify the strange decision of the lovebirds with their 30-year age difference. My brother graciously forwarded it to me and asked that I use it with discretion. Who could me more discreet than Chump Nation? It’s too long to share the whole thing so I will settle for a few choice bits. Try not to hurt yourself when you’re rolling around on the floor laughing! Woody wrote:

“I’ve wanted to write this message to you for a long time. The reason I’ve delayed is that in the 13 years of my marriage I have grown fearful of communicating with [Mehtamorphosis], and subsequently of people in general. I learned that sharing my feelings was surest way to anger someone. But now I’m starting to feel again that I can express myself to people. In my excitement I may overdo it a bit.”

“I do see that the relationship has potential to be better than any I’ve ever had. To me, the measure of a relationship is what kind of person you are when you’re in it. I can say that I love who I am when I’m with [Niece]. I am kind, caring, nurturing, honest, and understanding more than I have been with anyone before, and I’ve always been pretty good at that already. And in spite of the uncomfortable and awkward times that [Niece] and I are likely to encounter, I feel that this is a relationship worth pursuing.”

“But ultimately the success rates are highest when the two partners treat each other honestly and respectfully, which is precisely how [Niece] and I have treated each other from the moment she arrived in XX two years ago. While my life and my marriage were falling apart, I valued my relationship with [Niece] because she was the only person with whom I was being completely honest. I spent 13 years being afraid to tell [Mehtamorphosis] how I felt about anything because she reacted so harshly to it. I learned never to disagree with her, never to tell her how I felt about something unless it was to agree with her. But subsequently I was not able to be myself with her. My friendship with [Niece] and the degree she encouraged me be myself with her was a huge relief.”

“[Mehtamorphosis] doesn’t know that [Niece] is in XX or plans to return to [State U] because she would react harshly. All [Mehtamorphosis] knows right now is that I no longer want to stay married to her. I am not even mentioning [Niece] when I write to her. But this is how [Mehtamorphosis] has conditioned me to communicate with her — either by omitting information or by being altogether dishonest.”

So, now my worst fear has happened, and all I can do is thank the two bottom feeders for making it very, very easy to KNOW THAT THEY SUCK!!!!!!

And they can keep my new bed.

Lola Granola
Lola Granola
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Woody: How cold and unforgiving you are.

Meta: Yes, that’s right. (Files nails.)

{finis}

Vastra
Vastra
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

You couldn’t make this stuff up …. his email is stomach-churning. Metamorphosis, they have behaved with honesty and respect, he said so! It’s little consolation, but at least the ugly secret is out and everyone will know just how much they suck.

Dave K
Dave K
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Wow!! This guy actually said he was kind and honest, These cheaters are amazing!! The things they tell others and believe about themselves.

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago
Reply to  Dave K

Ohh, Bazooka Jane works! Thank you, JustBreathe. Not only was BJ (harhar) Woody’s girlfriend in Toy Story, which is age appropriate for their developmental level, but it is the name of a pertinent corporation!

“Bazooka Jane, Inc. manufactures lingerie for women. It offers bras and panties. The company was incorporated in 2014 and is based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=307806085

I love you, Chump Nation!

JustBreathe
JustBreathe
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Glad to help ???? You are mighty, Mehtamorphosis!

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

The niece was better prey than you. That’s it- gullible, inexperienced, and probably emotionally damaged.
Now you can be free!
His ‘deep explanations’ are hilarious, he acts like he has no personality, you can make him do anything and he’s afraid of you. LOL give me a break!
Enjoy your fair settlement and brand new life!!!

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago
Reply to  FreeWoman

Well, now I can feel some empathy for poor Woody because here at Chump Nation I am starting to understand just how intimidating I am. By Jeebus I am MIGHTY!

Soldiering On
Soldiering On
6 years ago
Reply to  FreeWoman

You notice it was all “I, I, I, I”. I hope your brother called him out. Here’s hoping they don’t breed.

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago
Reply to  Soldiering On

Wouldn’t it be fun to bounce Woody Junior on Auntie Meh’s knee! Yah, no.

Hopefully they’ll be smart enough not to breed further dysfunction into the family. My brother has made it very clear that my STBX will never be welcome in Chez Dad. The adults in the family are heartbroken that my niece made such a heartless and self-destructive decision.

I’d like to give her a fun nickname for clarity in my chump-rants. Any ideas?

JustBreathe
JustBreathe
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

I’d go with Bazooka Jane from the movie Toy Story. In which there was also a Woody. ????

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Wow … what a piece of shit. I’m horrified for you that you had to put up with such a crappy human as a spouse.

As I read his word salad, my first thought was “and here’s the blame shift.” And, of course, it’s the reaction to his shitty behavior — not the shitty behavior — that’s the problem.

Merely fantasizing, but it would be fun to send him a dictionary with the word “honest” highlighted. This is definitely a case of … I don’t think it means what he thinks it means.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Oh wow. Holy Mother or Triangulation, Batman.

Does he seriously think your brother will never send that to you? Of course not.

DO NOT allow him to triangulate. The reason he is with your niece has more to do with the kibbles that shit will provide if you give in. I feel sorry for your niece and the shit that is going to naturally come down on her and sorry for you for that she is choosing this riff between you. That’s very unfortunate.

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower36

Sunflower, I am going to ignore him and let him seethe in my indifference.

Oh, and I told his mother, who before this only knew that we are separated because he was unfaithful. Figured it wouldn’t hurt to give her a chance to warm up her Universal Shit Detector.

Tempest, the evidence is in hand, and we have already negotiated a kitchen table separation/divorce agreement that I am very happy with, since I do have lots of leverage over his reputation.

Cactusflower
Cactusflower
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Meht! Crickey! I hope I didn’t jinx you by asked by about the family!????Full on the self-pity letter conveniently arriving during the 3-channels blog. I hope you and your family have revoked nieces privileges (personally I thought you all were too generous in excusing her behaviors) but don’t worry, dollars to donuts in the next 10 years someone younger will catch her eye and she’ll move on. I am so sorry this is happening to you, but I am so glad you are out road trippin’! Have the time of your life you deserve it!

TorontoChump
TorontoChump
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

I do hope his mother was appropriately nauseated!

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Forget the UBT… send that to Jerry Springer.

Good riddance.

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Mehtamorphosis–I am simultaneously horrified, amused (at cheater’s hubris), and sad (for you) about that letter. It has to sting, even though it is one more nail in the He Sucks coffin.

I do hope that you will use the evidence you have of his affair, his moving slutniece in before the divorce is final, and that email to get the best damn possible settlement this side of the equator. And may that new bed collapse under the weight of their sociopathy, putting an end to them once and for all.

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

“when he tried to tell me all the ways I invalidated him, I even invalidated his feelings of invalidation!”

love this, but the rest of your post is haunting. The family-fuckers are bottom-of-the-barrel cheaters, lowest on the phylogenetic scale.

livefortoday2
livefortoday2
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I don’t even know what phylogenetic is? Pastry dough with family? Lol!
But geez what a creeper – his niece. Just gross.

wasjustanotherchump
wasjustanotherchump
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

OMG! Your niece! What a flaming POS.

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago

Yah, still shocks me every day that I wake up and remember again what Woody and my niece were doing in our dream house on a lake that we moved into last summer, when unbeknownst to me they’d already been playing in the bedroom in the old house for several months. Needless to say that house I loved so much before I knew he was having ice cream with his cake has been spoiled with triggers in every room, so he’s keeping that and I hope he’s happy with his fantasies of what he once had. Don’t worry about me, though — I’m getting my fair share of the assets and moving on to a new life. It will take a while to rebuild but in a couple of years I will wind up in a new job and living happily ever after on another lake far, far away from Woody. Right now I’m on a four-month road trip visiting friends and family and feeling pretty damn content with their support and the awesome Nation of Chump!

Cactusflower
Cactusflower
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Hey Meht! Can I ask you a question? Was it his side of the family or your side of the family = the niece? And how did the extended family take the info? I think the family that supports the exposed disordered abuser could be a whole CL column. The shrugged shoulders and the sigh of “he’s family” gives the cheater a blank check to re-abuse. No consequences for his actions. Good for you out road trippin’!! Have a blast!

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago
Reply to  Cactusflower

Cactus, she is my brother’s daughter and as you might guess, she’s got her own issues — very low self-esteem, lots of anxieties, no friends — in short, perfect prey for an uncle who wanted to make her feel loved and bask in the mirror of her adoration. Unfortunately, I didn’t know my husband was into young’uns. I’m seven years older than him and he was plenty into me right up until our last hysterical bonding session! As soon as I found out about their fucking I sent the niece home to her parents for some reeducation and a wreckonciliation attempt with my Charming Unicorn. Because she’s young and doesn’t need to have the rest of her life any more ruined than it already is, the family is trying to keep the truth within a small circle of close relatives who need to know to help her.

Besides my immediate family I have told some of the shitty details to my closest, most trusted friends (primarily the people I’m visiting on my “I Love Mehtamophosis” Tour). Oh, and all of Chump Nation, of course.

As for Woody’s side of the family, he considers his infidelity and our separation private and none of anyone’s business. I have heard from Switzerland that he admitted to a couple of emotional affairs, but as far as I know hasn’t told a single soul about the niece. I did tell my mother-in-law that I left him because he was unfaithful because otherwise it would have made no sense to her. He always plays the Charm Station when he’s in public and his favorite show is “Happy Wife, Happy Life.”

Cactusflower
Cactusflower
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Yowza! I am so sorry. He is truly a creep amongst creeps! Keep your wry sense of humor happening and have an excellent trip.

Vastra
Vastra
6 years ago
Reply to  Mehtamorphosis

Mehtamorphosis, your post is so funny but your ex is so awful… I can see why you chose the name Woody… how could he do that?!

Mehtamorphosis
Mehtamorphosis
6 years ago
Reply to  Vastra

He was so in wuv it hurt!

Vastra
Vastra
6 years ago

“The mind fuck only has 3 channels: rage, charm, self-pity”. This is such a brilliant summation… I feel tempted to add it to my email signature at work 😉

Vastra
Vastra
6 years ago
Reply to  Vastra

With appropriate attribution to Tracey of course! It’s a trend in my younger colleagues to add an peaceful inspirational quote so I’m just being subversive

cashmere
cashmere
6 years ago

Hah. Got the barely restrained rage email last week: you will settle for this pittance right now and call it generous, so have your lawyer write it up so we can both sign it and move on. Oh, and it dictates when I can retire. Oh, and it “generously” allots me less than half of the half that he deems “marital assets.”

But, see, cheater boy, there are a few little problems. Among them is that you don’t actually get to define what counts as a marital asset. Nor do you get to declare when I retire, or for how long maintenance lasts.

Laws, courts, and judges have guidelines about all of these fascinating things. Let’s see what they have to say, shall we?

And if that means all rage channel all the time, best be careful, because the law has ideas about that one, as well.

Rebecca
Rebecca
6 years ago
Reply to  cashmere

An instant classic!

Rebecca
Rebecca
6 years ago
Reply to  cashmere

Ugh, I hate it when they say what they don’t mean and don’t really mean what they say…and we have to magically know which is which?
And about the DDays, THAT DDay, I’m so sorry. You deserve much, much better. (((Hugs)))

PS Hoping your niece is wishing up too.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago
Reply to  cashmere

NEWBIES – read this again! You don’t negotiate with a Terrorist. Get a lawyer.

“But, see, cheater boy, there are a few little problems. Among them is that you don’t actually get to define what counts as a marital asset. Nor do you get to declare when I retire, or for how long maintenance lasts.

Laws, courts, and judges have guidelines about all of these fascinating things. Let’s see what they have to say, shall we?”

I also PAID Mr. Sparkles to leave, after 4 d-days and I had a pre-nup. Thank heavens for CL and CN. I grew some courage, hired a lawyer, filed first and followed the courts decision… and HE had to PAY ME!

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago

I love happy endings!

Newlady15
Newlady15
6 years ago
Reply to  cashmere

I just love how they define “fair”. Mine stole half of our retirement savings and dumped it in his failing business before we separated then wanted half of what was left all while continuing to steal joint assets and my jewellery all while saying I was being unfair because I wanted my share of those assets( many of which I paid for myself). Talk about ENTITLED!!

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago
Reply to  Newlady15

What is it with the jewelry? The Fucktard stole one earring from every pair I owned, and most were mine before marriage or gifts. I’m still scratching my head years later.

Martha
Martha
6 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

Something is truly disordered with a person that would take just one of each earring. Ugh!

My cheater put my engagement ring and the 20th wedding anniversary diamond wrap that he gave me down as “his assets” on his financial affidavit. Hmmmm. I could have sworn he gave them to me. I thought the first ring was a promise to love, cherish, forsake all others, etc. I thought the 20th ring was another promise/sign that he loved me and was looking forward to more happy years together. I was wrong. He cheated on me before we got engaged. After we were married. And just six months after he gave me the 20th ring, he sent flirtaeous emails to his current whore du jour. I gave him back “his assets”, because I have no doubt he’ll make them into a ring for his whore because he’ll find out quickly that they aren’t worth what he paid for them! You never get back what you paid for diamonds. 🙂 So, she’ll either be wearing my leftovers or she’ll be wearing money that my leftovers paid for.

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

Martha,

Check with your attorney. I’m pretty sure that at least the engagement ring is considered a gift (yours) and not a joint asset.

My mother told me years after her divorce from my cheating narc father that he was furious to learn he wouldn’t be getting her engagement ring, family heirloom or not. When my father’s third wife learned of said ring’s origin (a three stone ring that belonged to my father’s paternal grandmother) she shared her plan to get all three diamonds back and reset them in the original setting. Narc bitch didn’t understand why I didn’t want to sell it to her after my mother died and I emptied my mother’s safety deposit box…..
What a crass individual

Martha
Martha
6 years ago

Sucker Punch, The rings did belong to me. I just wanted to point out that my ex is so character disordered that he put them down as his assets. Something he gave to me as a token of is love and commitment were just money to him. At the time, everyone I told that to couldn’t believe how weird and cold he was for putting that down. Even a few male guy friends couldn’t believe he wrote it down. I could care less about the money and value of the rings. I’d rather have a husband who could only afford a Crack Jack box ring instead of the POS, pathological lying, serial cheating and serial adulterer that I was with for 24 years. The value of a honest and faithful husband cannot be measured by money. I will consider myself a very blessed woman if I ever find a man like this someday. Sadly, I don’t think there are very many out there anymore. And before or after (I can’t remember anymore) our divorce was final, I gave him both rings back. I don’t want ANYTHING in my life that reminds me of the POS that I was with for 24 years and I was being true to my own values by giving him back one of the things that was most important to him — money. I know we all need money to survive and it does bring happiness when we use it to do things that make us happy. My final ring put together was beautiful and it made me happy at the time, because I thought my husband loved me and I thought our marriage was pretty good and happy. When we came back from the special trip we went together for our 20th anniversary, I showed my kids what their dad gave me (the diamond wrap). And I said many kind words about their father. And now all those good and happy memories are all crap, because he was lying and cheating on me for 24 years with his double life. The rings needed to get out of my life, just like the serial cheater did!

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago
Reply to  Martha

Well, Martha, Fucktard the Midlife Boy pierced his ear about the time he bought a Porsche and started chasing his students, my best friend from college, and my baby sister. So I assume he figured he’d look cool wearing women’s earrings too. Sadly, none of those things looked good on him.

Martha
Martha
6 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

Wow. He took your jewelry for his one pierced ear? And yes, he certainly sounds like Midlife Boy is the perfect name for him. Good riddance to him!

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago

I practiced these three words in response to the Mindfuck Channels:

NO. THANK. YOU.

– After a mediation session he sadz-eye asked, “Don’t you want to go and have lunch and sit down and talk about this?”

NO. THANK. YOU.

– After a text that read: “Can we discuss this without the lawyers, or do you still want to proceed on the current course we’re on?”

NO. THANK. YOU.

– Here’s a keeper: “Do you want to get a Christmas tree together as a family?” (OW was busy, I suppose.)

NO. THANK. YOU.

It’s like training a puppy. You have to firm and non-emotional. The road to No Contact (and Gray Rock) is paved with periods. NO – PERIOD – THANK – PERIOD – YOU – PERIOD.

It’s hard, but it’s worth it.

UXworld
UXworld
6 years ago

And the “training a puppy” analogy is awesome, ICSTHC. So very, very true.

UXworld
UXworld
6 years ago

Another 3-word approach:

“I’ll consider it.”

If the cheater is of the “low long-term memory” sort (only the “here and now” is what’s important, rarely follows up on promises or commitments made), his brain may be satisfied having simply verbalized the request, and mentally he’ll move on to the next thing.

On the other hand, if your cheater is one who demands centrality and an immediate validation of his request, this tactic could simply ramp up the rage channel: “How dare you not acknowledge me in the way a expect and deserve!!”

Use at your own discretion.

Hopium4years
Hopium4years
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

UXworld, thanks. I will definitely add “I’ll consider it” to my repertoire – my cheater says things that he forgets the second the words are out of his mouth.

Hopium4years
Hopium4years
6 years ago

Three mighty words!

I’ve been using them often but I didn’t really realize they were major components of the Gray Rock script.

Thanks, ICanSeeTheMehComing! I will now make more conscious use of them. His game plan was to use lying, secrets, and manipulation to control the narrative; my game plan is to have far more control than he ever had, and I don’t have to be dishonest to do it. I’ll just keep saying NO. THANK. YOU.

So Done
So Done
6 years ago

This is great advice. I’ve noticed, however, that whenever I say “No, thank you” to my STBX’s suggestion that we have a “family” outing, my STBX lectures me condescendingly about how important it is for him and me to demonstrate to our kids that we are able to get along.

“So Done,” he’ll say in a patronizing tone of voice as though he were addressing a 5-year-old, “No matter how angry you are at me, it is important for our kids’ sake that we show them that we can get along. This is about what they need, not about what you need — you need to put them first.”

As if I haven’t put them first for their entire lives. As if my STBX has any idea how to put anyone before himself.

Any suggestions as to how to respond to this nonsense?

BeenThereandWasAChump
BeenThereandWasAChump
6 years ago
Reply to  So Done

Maybe you should have thought of that before you stuck you d1ck in someone else????

Martha
Martha
6 years ago
Reply to  So Done

Only one word is needed. “NO.” And if your “no” isn’t enough. Then don’t respond. He doesn’t deserve anymore than that. If he wanted you to get along for the kids sake, then he shouldn’t have cheated on you.

My ex said in the “Divorce Letter” something like, “I’ll never say anything bad about you to the kids and I know will do the same for me.” Ugh. I never did anything wrong our entire marriage that he could “tell the kids” about. Him however……24 years worth of lying and cheating. And there was no way in hell we were going to be “friends” after what he did to me. I’m not friends or friendly with people like him. And I won’t be friendly with him “for the kids sake.” I’m teaching my kids that it’s okay to have firm boundaries set-up against abusive people. And pathological lying, serial cheating and serial adultery is abuse, especially more-so when it’s all hidden under the veil of a holy “Christian, nice guy” man. Evil.

2nd Gen Chump
2nd Gen Chump
6 years ago
Reply to  So Done

“STBX, I think it is important for me to show them that reprehensible behavior has serious and sometimes life-long consequences. I want to model healthy boundaries, and show them that they can choose to have healthy people in their lives and minimize or eliminate unhealthy people. I want to remind them that duty goes both ways, and that when someone you love betrays your trust so fundamentally, it is not necessary to keep loving them or to allow them to continue to abuse you. I will model polite cooperation, but will not pretend to be a happy family or engage in social activities with you. Now fuck off.”

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago
Reply to  So Done

Try this:

“It is NOT important for US to show OUR KIDS anything.

I show our children every day that I love them, I will protect them, I will teach them respect and honesty and boundaries.”

You do you, fuckface. And, I’ll do me. The kids will be fine.

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago
Reply to  So Done

“No means no.” That is all.

heissobroken
heissobroken
6 years ago

I had the luxury of getting the MILs charm. 9 fingers never got stuck on that channel because the second he opened his mouth I knew he was manipulating me. He was constant rage it seemed – how awful for him to have to pretend to be nice to me because I lawyers up and Hahahaha he couldn’t do it, within seconds of contacting me he would be threatening me to take our child, financially screw me over (because years and years of pathological gambling wasn’t enough).

My MILs text went something like this: I really hope you get it together and the only one who will suffer is your child. She didn’t understand why lawyers had to get involved and why I just couldn’t move on. Total little bitch much like her loser offspring.

My reply: I have never been happier in my life, it could always be so much worse like living with a man who is cheating on you, making you and your child a last priority, hiding an addiction that has financially devastated our family, a man who suffers from undiagnosed depression and uncontrollable rage for which he refused to acknowledge and get help for.

I never heard from the bitch again. Yay me!

No contact is the only channel I know and it’s been over a year. CL and CN saved my life!!!!

Happily ever after
Happily ever after
6 years ago

Excellent rerun CL. This statement says it all: “Cheaterpants continues to be an embarrassing loser who rarely speaks to his children.”. Me? I’m doing well. Hang in there newbies. It DOES get better.

UnflownKite
UnflownKite
6 years ago

I’m being offered the bare bones for settlement. Should I go to trial. He cheated and abandoned us and he has a small pattern of fraud. Supposedly, the judge will consider what he has done before a settlement. Would you go to trial?

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

I did the math and looked at what I was likely to get with a judge making the decision versus what the EX was proposing. The dollar difference was not that large and would have been eaten up almost entirely by legal fees. For me, the decision not to pursue a judgment was also complicated by the fact that I knew the EX would probably not pay fully or regularly no matter what the courts said. So even an excellent judgment would have meant years of problems getting it enforced. In terms of dependable dollars, I was better off with an agreement that came down to handing some papers back and forth between our lawyers and being finished.

From a moral perspective, I would have loved to pursue a judgment, but financially, it did not make sense. I went with the math not the moral satisfaction.

In your case, the difference between 18 months and 10 years is large. And there is no reason for you not to request a higher number of years if you can make a case for it. So, I’d lean toward having your lawyer prepare an agreement, perhaps for 8 years, that can be offered right before the trial begins. Maybe he will take it, maybe he won’t, but your lawyer can make it clear that you will not accept such a lowball offer. (In my state 8 years would still be to your EX’s advantage as alimony for 1/2 the length of the marriage is normative).

Motherchumper
Motherchumper
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

I went to trial and I got 70% of everything including all real estate and all cash on hand and my retirement and maintenance and a maximum child-support and 82% of all uncovered child related expenses including college up to the age of 23.

At our last mediation his offer was $300 a month and no share of any assets.

What the hell trial and having to deal with expert’s and six figures of attorneys fees worth it? HELL YES!!!!!

You only get one chance to do this and you got to do it right. You have to be willing to go all the way, which I was.

ca-chump
ca-chump
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

Keep your calculator handy! If he is willing to fork over more in the settlement to reduce the years of alimony I’d take it. 1. The settlement is not taxed, alimony is (and deductible for him) 2. You do not have to worry about him going broke and/or just not paying since he’s already comfy with fraud.

My ex absolutely did not want to pay any alimony, mostly so he could feel like he “won” and brag to his buddies. (Not sure they were impressed.) So, I took an extra large piece of the pie and collected the alimony tax-free up front.

Also, you have to be even more organized than your attorney. Not all of them have their act together. Get together those receipts, tax info, policies, and an inventory of everything in your house that has value to it. You can support those values with examples of sold prices in classifieds or ebay.

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

Unflownkite–if you have documentation of his fraud, income, etc., then definitely go to trial. Also, if the pretrial judge recommended 10 years alimony, and jackass is only offering 18 months, it is definitely worth the hassle to go to trial. At a minimum, you should get 5-7 years alimony (which will more than make up for court costs).

Freenow
Freenow
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I agree with Tempest, UFK,

Settlement should be in 5-7 year range for spousal maintenance; not 18 months. Yours was at a minimum, is a mid-length marriage.

Judges use guidelines and case law to guide their decisions. It’s about putting each party on equal footing, length of marriage, abilities (health/skills etc) of both parties and what marital assets and debts there are to divide.

While there is no guarantee of outcome, I also agree with FindingBliss that I’d take my chances with a judge before allowing a narcissist or psychopath determine the outcome if they won’t settle fairly.

My X, at 34 years of marriage, wanted to give me basically the equivalent of a car payment for a few years. He tried to argue I could go out and get a high paying job immediately. This even though I was fighting highly aggressive cancer, had 10 surgeries and was in chemotherapy while fighting him with everything I had. He was in rage mode for the 13 month divorce process. We didn’t have minor children so fortunately no custody fight. Ironically, I had worked my entire adult life but at end of relationship been diagnosed with cancer.

I had exposed him for the abusive souless fraud of a human that he is.

Upholding his image, in the end, meant more to him than fighting me in court. It helps that at top of my witness list to call, were his multiple AP’s/prostitutes, his cheating boss a.k.a. “Mentor” and a certified divorce CPA expert with reems of incriminating evidence. I was able to do quite a bit of discovery while hospitalized and healing between treatments.

Final settlement was 50%. I live in a no fault, common law state. Case law/precedence ruled the day. Justice, as much as there can be with a cheater, in my case was served.

We as chumps, are used to living in fear, not putting ourselves first and avoiding conflict/not rocking the boat. I literally had nothing to lose except my own fear in fighting him.

If ever there was a time for me to straighten up, use backbone and grit, it was in the 11th hour of settlement negotiations. I concede on a few items, which were painful to give up, but in the end were worth what was gained.

It’s all ugly business but remember, write down and look at it when deciding whether you want to settle or not, “Trust that they suck”! “You are mighty”! “Know your worth”!

I’m 21months out from DD, 7 months post divorce and continue to receive good news on my cancer fight. I’m so happy to be cheater free. It really does get better.

I wish you all the best in settling your case, will be with you in spirit and stand with you in CN strength. Hugs to you!

StillMad
StillMad
6 years ago
Reply to  Freenow

Hi FreeNow, do witnesses/AP’s matter in a no-fault state, with respect to the settlement? Thank you…

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago
Reply to  Freenow

Freenow,

My heart is bleeding for you, though it should be no surprise that the deeply disordered will a) flee from the responsibility of being supportive of an ill partner, and b) try to take advantage of the vulnerability that comes with illness.

Congratulations on backing that ratbastard right up to the wall and showing your inner strength. Now concentrate on your recovery. I’m a 19 year survivor of a ratbastard myself, and a 9 year TNBC survivor. In my case, ridding myself of the ratbastard was harder than ridding myself of cancer, but I didn’t have them come at me side-by-side. You are incredibly mighty. I salute you!

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

What does your lawyer suggest? How much is at stake? Trials can get expensive and I know in my state, Judge’s prefer mediation for a resolution (I’m in a no-fault state, so though cause was adultery it didn’t effect the settlement). In the end, for me, a good mediator that my attorney recommended was able to drag Mr. Sparkles across the finish line.

UnflownKite
UnflownKite
6 years ago

It’s too late for mediation. Trial is next week (if it is going to happen). My attorney says the offer is on the very low end but then he throws in how it’s my risk and I have to accept the outcome. There isn’t much. The pretrial judge recommended 10 years of alimony. The husband wants to give 18 months and then modifible when I get a job. Well, of course I’m going to get a job. At last I hope. 18 months of alimony has already been spent on my lawyer and the left over will be spent to move. My state does consider adultery and the length of the marriage and the fact that I haven’t worked. But, is that just words that the state likes to claim? I don’t know.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

I’d go to trial – but that’s me. I tend to “doubledown” when I feel like I’m getting backed in to a corner. Nobody puts ICSTMC in a corner 🙂

UnflownKite
UnflownKite
6 years ago

It looks like we will be going to trial. At the very least I believe the judge will make him pay my attorney fees. So if the alimony ends up being the same, at least I won’t be on the hook for those fees. If not, he will have to cry uncle pretty soon.

Thank you. It helps so much just hearing from others.

Drew
Drew
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

Call his bluff. Push for trial but get your lawyer to negotiate your MSA with his lawyer every day to the very end, don’t stop negotiating for what YOU want, your lawyer should be working FOR you and know what is reasonable and he/she should have Proposed MSA written up and sent to your stbx’s lawyer every day…the judge’s recommendation for ten years alimony (this is a guideline) is a good recommendation. Trials are expensive but in my experience Narcs rarely want that much attention as they want to control their image. Again, your lawyer should be working for you, not just allowing things to happen.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

18 months vs 10 years is a pretty big difference. How long were you married?

UnflownKite
UnflownKite
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

19 years. It’s a very big difference. 18 months of alimony will barely cover what I have lost waiting for the divorce. Well, he only has a week then we are going to trial.

FindingBliss
FindingBliss
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

I think he’s preying upon your fears. I agree that narcs threaten, but rarely want to be exposed at a trial. Your whole financial future is as stake. Neither he nor a judge can guarantee that you will get a decent-paying job in 18 months, especially if your resume has big gaps from being a SAHM. Fight for yourself and your right not to be plunged into poverty while he gets off easy. I do think his proposed settlement is a pittance. While there are never guarantees in life, I’d risk a judge any day before I’d concede to a narcissist. Praying for you. You deserve so much better. We are so used to settling for less, we have a hard time envisioning success and triumph. Make sure your lawyer knows that you expect him/her to fight for a much better financial settlement.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

Don’t take that offer unless the total payout is similar (meaning the payments for 18 months are MUCH larger to come close to what 10 years of payments will be).

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

At a minimum, you should get at least 6 years of alimony. One year for every three years of marriage. Each state is a different though. Google it to see what is typical in your state. Given that you haven’t been working will probably guarantee you more alimony, not less.

UnflownKite
UnflownKite
6 years ago
Reply to  UnflownKite

I meant to add, everyone’s feedback is valuable. I need moral support. Thank you.

Now I.C.
Now I.C.
6 years ago

Mine did all three channels, with both me and our grown daughters. Abandoned me while I was on a work trip and responded with rage when I dared ask WTF. All my fault, I was a terrible person and the whole family thinks so, too.

Came back to the house later and was all self-pity, he had the sadz, he is so loooonely….. duh, you left you asshole, of course you are lonely. Now put your dick away, no one wants to give you a consolation BJ to salve your stupidity.

Next visit was charm. Remember the good old days? Let me kiss your neck. Let’s be friends. Fuck you. You left me asshole, so step off.

Now he is on a permanent test pattern, all fuzz and no clarity, willing to sign over large chunks of our estate to me for kids’ college, healthcare, etc. Just have to get through the next couple of weeks, sign off the house, get the court decree. Generous settlement coming, holding my breath. I loved what I read back somewhere in the archives– Luziana said she had poured herself into the empty fucking bucket calling himself a husband- yep, that was me. No more! Channel signing off very soon, and I control the goddam remote!

BeowulfSabrina
BeowulfSabrina
6 years ago
Reply to  Now I.C.

“Now put your dick away, no one wants to give you a consolation BJ to salve your stupidity.” You.Win. Spit my coffee out. Thank you. It’s as if they offer that limp thing as a token. I didn’t like giving BJs back when we were married, I sure as hell won’t do it now. Who knows where that thing has been!

Now I.C.
Now I.C.
6 years ago
Reply to  BeowulfSabrina

But-but-but, that was his big seduction move! Wang whipping and ball juggling. Simply show the wares and the wifey hops on. Sheesh! Good luck with that in the real world, Schmoopie will be thrilled.

At least he is good for a laugh now. I love Chump Nation!

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  Now I.C.

Eeeeeeeeeeek! Never been a fan of wang whipping. Grossity-gross-gross. So very presumptive.

sayonara sad sausage
sayonara sad sausage
6 years ago

NC is the path to freedom! Once I read CL book and realized what was happening it almost became amusing. He could always get me with charm until I learned it was all bullshit. I haven’t had contact with him in almost 52 days he’s called texted I blocked him. He called texted my work phone I blocked. He wanted to see dogs I said no and stop using your son to send messages. ????????we are mighty fuck them go NC!

SuperDuperChump
SuperDuperChump
6 years ago

Just don’t make threats about taking the Franklin Mint Roy Rogers Collection. That’s when things will get ugly……I’ll be leaving the courthouse singing “Happy Trails.”

Merrychump
Merrychump
6 years ago

Cheaters are so Machiavellian. Thank you for this post. I can recognize my ex (mr. nobody) in all this chaotic flipping, raging, charming, flipping, pity stories, repeating, flipping again.

Wendy
Wendy
6 years ago

I am angry. I am angry at myself, for allowing multiple D-days. I am angry at myself for not believing I could live without a man. I am angry I had 4 children with this POS. I get angry as I read rejection after rejection letter/emails/phone calls from job applications. I am angry I was a stay at home Mom for the past 15 years. I am angry that I still rely on this POS for financial support. I am angry that I can’t afford a lawyer. I am angry that my family that doesn’t believe in divorce will mot help me with a laywer, even after I informed my mother of the std I had to get treatment for. I am angry because I can’t leave my kids to start a new life, I am too attached to those beauties. I am angry I can’t afford to take them and leave.
I will continue to be angry until I can land a job and think about hiring an attorney to start working on my freedom papers.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
6 years ago
Reply to  Wendy

Hire the best lawyer there is anyway– he/she will get the $$ from X to pay themselves.

You cannot afford not to.

Use that anger to act “as if” you are ready to scorch his ass for the abuse!

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Wendy

I hear you girlfriend. I’m operating on pissed off mode still and it’s been a year since he told me he was leaving me. I did the SAHM thing and I am so incredibly pissed that I don’t get to anymore. My kids are upset that I am never home and are torn between having to spend time between me and their father/whore/her three kids with dad bun in da oven.

What do you have of his that you can hock? Start seeing pawn shops as you friends. Hock your wedding ring, hock his ring (if he’s not wearing it) hock anything of his that might have some value. Craig’s list and Facebook on-line yard sales in your area. Sell Plasma. I average about $35 bucks an hour doing that twice a week. What do you own free and clear? What skills do you have, because you’ve got ’em you just have to tap into it. Get help writing your resume’. How old are your kids? You DO NOT HAVE TO LEAVE THEM TO START OVER.

Any chance you can ask you folks for $$$ and say you are planning a get away vacation to “reconnect” ? And then put that on an attorney? Seriously, your parents won’t help? What will your parents help with? Anything? Will they help you pay for college? Will they help you with a car if you don’t have one?

Just make an appointment with an attorney and see what other options you might have in terms of ownership of assets. If there is equity in your home, you might get one to agree to represent you and help you take out a loan against the equity or who will work on a contingency basis if you can sell your home to liquidate the asset.

You want out, there is a way. Don’t let his control stop you.

Drew
Drew
6 years ago
Reply to  Wendy

You can afford a lawyer, get before a judge and get the finances taken care of immediately. Initial hearing should address all finances, but think about what you want to do. Community college should be on your radar, their financial aid office can help. Your stbx can finance the divorce.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Wendy

Me, too. About everything you said. Some days it is worse than others, but it is always there just simmering and wanted to be unleashed. They truly are POS.

Free Vix
Free Vix
6 years ago
Reply to  Wendy

BE MAD. You should be after all that shit. My anger was what saved me from a lifetime of emotional abuse and cheating. Harness that rage, let it be your righteous armor, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. From yesterday’s post, Esther Perel talked about “inexplicable” rages. Oh they’re explicable. You can set aside that rage when it no longer serves you, but for now it’s your inner voice calling you to action, rejecting what you know isn’t right, and pushing you forward and out of the muck. Be mad, and be your own warrior.

SuperDuperChump
SuperDuperChump
6 years ago
Reply to  Wendy

Anger is your friend. Anger is awesome. I have been in your shoes. Your anger will catapult you. Your anger is the Golden Ticket. You can’t see it…..ah, but you will.

rockette
rockette
6 years ago

Mine tried all three but rage and charm weren’t really his style. He went hard on the self pity. It was all sad sausage I don’t know what’s wrong with me type bullshit. I think he honestly felt he was the victim of the situation. His favorite thing was, you don’t know how much I’m suffering, and then everything you do (like telling people the truth, filing for divorce) is just isolating me more, ergo, of course, this is all your fault. Interestingly, the argument also works on the other end – when you attempt to reconcile, I just feel so shitty about myself, I don’t deserve you, so you being nice is just driving me away, ergo, of course, this is all your fault.

Aside from self pity the other mindfuck he liked to use was to appeal to what I’ll call the “evolved person” stereotype. Kind of like Esther Perel bs but also with reference to parenting. The implication being, I’m presenting the reasonable option here, you must be bat shit crazy if you don’t want to go along with this (see why I had to leave you?? You are crazy. This is all your fault.) He sent me an article on coparenting after divorce in which the divorced parents went on camping trips together with their child and did all sorts of other shit together. The author presented them as oh so evolved, you know the ideal coparenting relationship. Like conscious uncoupling type bullshit. I told him to fuck off.

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  rockette

Your comment rang a bell because Saintly Man With A Sick Wife (my hopefully STBX) is also very big on the self pity channel.

When you said ” I think he honestly felt he was the victim of the situation.” A bell started ringing in my head. SMWASW honestly believes with his whole heart that he has been dealt a shit hand in life and *sigh* must now slog through the muck the best he can. . .
Alone. . .
In the drenching rain. . .
With a hole in his shoe. . .
Chilled to the bone by the whipping wind. . .
And no one to help his sorry self. . .
All awone. . .
You get the picture.

I used to agree with him but now I just laugh. Not because it is funny, but because it is so obvious and ridiculous.

He has no trouble fooling therapists, marriage counselors and in-laws though, unfortunately.

rockette
rockette
6 years ago

Yes!!!!

“Alone. . .
In the drenching rain. . .
With a hole in his shoe. . .
Chilled to the bone by the whipping wind. . .
And no one to help his sorry self. . .
All awone. . .”

This is it. He does stuff now that makes me go WTF WHY??? For example, he sold his car under the auspices that he couldn’t afford it anymore. I know his finances, and I KNOW he can afford a car – maybe not the one he had, but I lease a perfectly adequate Toyota right now for $225/month and he sure as hell can afford that. When he logs notes about our daughter he likes to drop mentions of how he and my daughter had to ride the subway, ride the bus, couldn’t get a ride here or there. Also that was the reason why he was borrowing his fuckbuddy’s car to pick up our daughter, because don’t I know there WASN’T ANOTHER OPTION?? What a fuckwad. Hope that self-inflicted self-punishment self-pity party works out for ya (operative word being SELF).

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
6 years ago
Reply to  rockette

Viruses evolve quickly. Sentient species tend to employ a slower growth model. Given your situation, I think we can conclude which one of these he is most likely to be. So much for his “evolution.”

rockette
rockette
6 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Hahahahah excellent point.

Traffic_Spiral
Traffic_Spiral
6 years ago
Reply to  rockette

What do you want to bet that the co-camping parents divorced amicably because no one had been a betraying shitbag?

rockette
rockette
6 years ago
Reply to  Traffic_Spiral

Yyyyupppp. Does not compute.

Free Vix
Free Vix
6 years ago

I’ll add a 4th channel for my ex: withholding. That has always been his passive aggressive mindfuck of choice. He withholds communication, whitholds affection, withholds signing documents or fulfilling responsibilities, withholds whatever it is he knows I want. He does it mindfully and quietly, with the intent to be an invisible and deniable bulwark to whatever I’m trying to do. He knows that the quieter he gets, the more I try to explain and dance and get his attention. I’ve watched him do it to other people, too, including his employees, for absolutely no good reason except that they wanted something. He once refused to approve a vacation request from one of his better employees 6 months in advance, but he also wouldn’t deny it. He just wouldn’t respond, even after his employee followed up twice. Why, I asked him? “Because he wants it and maybe I’ll need him” was the answer I finally dragged out of him. I asked him why he didn’t just deny the request then, and he shrugged. “It’s just not a priority.” He didn’t care about anything but exerting passive control as a supervisor, and that’s exactly how he was as a partner, too.

I’ve noticed a lot of other chumps on here with passive aggressive manipulators. Maybe it technically comes from a place of inner rage, but it my life it’s definitely its own channel.

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  Free Vix

Yes, yes, yes! Passive aggressive all over the place up in my household. When they are questioned on it, they can just say “I forgot” and then WE look like the bitches for being so petty.

It’s a neverending shit sandwich with extra mindfuck dressing.

StarStuffGoddess
StarStuffGoddess
6 years ago
Reply to  Free Vix

Gotta chime in here.

GUBU was-still is–the master of covert aggression. I finally learned to make no mistake about it.

His actions were/are definitely aggressive, because they are meant to HARM.

The foot-dragging on important issues, the “accidental” opening of mail from my lawyer (I shut that shit down ASAP, it’s a federal offense), and throwing important papers away because “they didn’t look like anything you needed”, the convenient “forgetting” and “breaking” and “destroying” belongings of mine because “Ooops! I dropped it/set it on fire/ran it over the the lawnmower…”

Even before D-Day this sort of thing happened a LOT and I, chumping away, attributed it his carelessness/fatigue/hard day at work, etc.

After D-Day it got so bad that it was obvious.

He didn’t have the cojones to confront me directly about his anger about the fact that I wised up and pushed the divorce along, so he covertly went about doing things he knew would impact me negatively.

During our whole marriage he never really raised his voice. (Unless you count a really odd high-pitched, petulant whining, which was particularly striking because he did have a lovely, deep voice.)

He just stonewalled, blame-shifted, confused the issue, floated like a manipulating butterfly and stung like a chicken-shit bee.

So I do tend to consider it a choice of programming on the Rage Channel.

I just call it “Rage Lite: For The Weak and Cowardly.” 🙂

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago

SSG- I might need to come to u for a pep talk at some point. They are so good at claiming the harm is harmless.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Free Vix

I got this, too. When asked a direct question, he loves to give a reply without an answer, forcing you to ask again.

Mine also uses guilt on me. He knows that my love for my kids outweighs my disdain of him. He also knows that I want to do what is best for them even if it is something that I don’t want (like having to deal with him so my kids can have a relationship with him). He will send a text that gets me questioning my own behavior or choices and leaves me wondering if I am the reason or cause for the current state of the kids relationship with their dad.

All of it is manipulation.

Susannah
Susannah
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

My bio-Dad used to do that BS. Whenever he would not respond, I would just say, “It’s okay if you don’t know, I’ll ask someone else.” Got a response every time, and also an accusation that I was being arrogant.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

I should note that when he uses this with rage or self pity, I am now able to see it for what it is. When he uses it with charm, it still takes me awhile to turn off the channel. I now wait to reply until my head has a chance to put his statement or question into it’s logical place.

Free Vix
Free Vix
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I take a different view. The term is passive _aggressive_ because it is a form of going on the offensive. When someone uses it skillfully, as my ex did, it goes beyond being obstinate to using it as a form of control and persuasion. I discovered that there’s an entire chapter in Lundy Bancroft’s book “Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Controlling and Angry Men” that discusses this as a specific tactic of control and emotional abuse. There’s a great article on Psychology Today (which seems to be having site issues, so I can’t link to it) that provides a hypothetical case study of a passive aggressive student manipulating his teacher to change her behavior. It’s mind bending stuff for those of us who are open and authentic and who would never think of something like that.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

They’re like the unicorn with a couple of broken legs….

Now I.C.
Now I.C.
6 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower36

Mine was hugely passive aggressive, but it was a child-like emotional state more than a rage-control thing (until the end, the nuclear destruction). He simply has no ability to deal with life directly, especially in dealing with me. He looked me right in the eye and said one thing, then went away and silently resented me for the choice. The result was that he found himself at a point in his life feeling completely irresponsible for his circumstances. He denied he ever made any of the choices that brought us to where we are after 31 years. How convenient, to be able to deny your entire life–an objectively OUTSTANDING life I might add–because you are approaching 50 years old and have a sadz? How convenient to blame the wife appliance for all your twubbles.

He withheld himself from me and lied when asked directly how we were doing, if we were OK, having become empty nesters and having “survived” an OW#1 nine years earlier. I never stood a chance against Mr. Passive Aggressive. “You are not the boss of me” should be tattooed on his fucking forehead.

He sought comfort with other women because I had become the Mother Figure against whom he had to rebel. So, like all children, he left home.

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  Now I.C.

YES YES YES. This. I finally feel as though I found my tribe-within-a-tribe here at CL. CN: Extreme Passive Aggressives Edition.

NoMoreEvil
NoMoreEvil
6 years ago
Reply to  Now I.C.

“He sought comfort with other women because I had become the Mother Figure against whom he had to rebel. So, like all children, he left home.”

THIS^^^

Free Vix
Free Vix
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Ha! Not the worst solution I’ve heard…

I agree that withholding is just a different form of manifesting rage, and a very poor one at that.

Here’s the article I was looking for. It’s well worth the read for anyone who deals with a passive aggressive, withholding jackass like my ex.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/passive-aggressive-diaries/201307/the-passive-aggressive-conflict-cycle?amp

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Free Vix

Oh, I totally agree. y 1st ex husband did this all the time. It drove me crazy. He knew it drove me crazy, and when I eventually quit asking his input and just made a decision myself, he was seriously pissed and then used rage to control me/the situation.

BowTie
BowTie
6 years ago

While she was stoking the hopium pipe for me Princess YogaPants tried charm. Sadly she really didn’t know what I find charming and hasn’t for a few years. So after spending a weekend away with her Schmoopie she would try to sooth me by making my “favourite meal” which was usually done in a half-assed way. I remember her saying that she could read me like a (short) book and I would just be so baffled because it was obvious that even after 26 years that she really didn’t know what made me tick. Perhaps because our “conversations” for a very long time consisted either of me listening to her complain about the world or watching her surf the internet on her phone.

After she left I would occasionally see from afar the self-pity on her social media and now that she finally lawyered up all I see is rage and confusion in person.

Fortunately I don’t have any real worries about physical violence although I did ask some friends to be very suspicious if I was suddenly dead (true).

I’m really looking forward to this being over.

B
B
6 years ago
Reply to  BowTie

Mine did get the Christmas ornaments because he stole them!

Just remember when you do leave they can be absolutely vicious and good at being vicious. Be prepared to lose more than half. I was left in financial ruin because my ex manipulated the court and had a lawyer that would do anything no matter how unethical.

My ex was cheating on me while I had a newborn and planning out how to leave me penniless. He had a preemptive smear campaign. And somehow it worked! A woman who just had a baby (me) wasn’t making him happy enough!

Watch out for these monsters. If they are willing to cheat on you, they are willing to cheat you in other ways!

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  B

After I convinced Hannibal Lecher to go to a hotel so I had “time to calm down” (but then never let him back) I fostered a dog from the shelter he thought was vicious, and he was too scared to come back for his belongings. The dog was actually a pussy cat, but he didn’t need to know that ; ).

Free Vix
Free Vix
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Maybe the dog was just an excellent judge of character. I saw red flags but spackled when my newly rescued shelter puppy wouldn’t go near my (now) ex. I patiently worked with her for months before she would tolerate him without hiding behind me in sheer panic. I worked for years to socialize her properly. After we separated, my ex refused to give her and our cat back to me (even though he never wanted them), I presume because OW liked them and enjoyed playing house with my husband and my pets. I only managed to come away with one of our three pets, but I at least got our child.

Cancer Chump
Cancer Chump
6 years ago
Reply to  Free Vix

Something similar happened to me. We adpoted a cat, who was supposed to be for my STBX. The cat rejected him. I actually wondered if we had made a mistake adopting the cat because it didn’t seem like he was fitting in with our family at all. He got along with our other cat but rarely hung out with us. After STBX moved out, the cat became the most lovable cat ever. Completely transformed! I now know that he didn’t want STBX to be his person because he recognized he was a complete ass.

Got-a-brain
Got-a-brain
6 years ago

When they present the charm channel, buckle up, because there’s usually something behind it. It took me a long time to catch onto this. It seems as if they want to throw you off balance before they go in for the kill! Just assume they operates under the guise of bait and switch. Keep in mind these are people who declare one thing and operate in complete contrast to what they are stating. They don’t operate with a moral compass, their behavior will be a symptom of some imagined victimhood you placed them in. Just remember consequences for their shitty behavior is NOT the problem! Their shitty behavior is the problem!
Once you start putting your own best interests first they will twist your boundaries into some abuse you are subjecting them to. They are masters of impression management … they had us fooled, and they have no remorse for the two faces they wear. It’s as if they get off on convincing people they are the victims of an unfortunately disorder marriage (leaving out they created it), to gain sympathy and smear your character. They want you to believe you are the problem, when the truth is they can’t handle losing control of their impression over you. Their blamshifting no longer works so they up the anti.
What better way make you look like the jerk than to publicly declare you won’t “be nice” while behind the scenes they drain your bank accounts, poison the kids with their delusional narrative, and make themselves the victims of your unreasonableness. The patterns are the same, but at some point they shift from trying to convince you you’re the problem (once they realize they can no longer guilt you into submission), to trying to convince everyone else you are the problem. It’s called the smear campaign and trust me it’s coming! If you are unfortunate enough to have married a master charmer, very skilled in impression management, combined with social power … it’s going to get ugly. Any response you have to THEIR BEHAVIOR will be twisted and used to paint you as the problem.

Example: You call the police because they continually enter the family home and take things months after they moved out. You’ve had multiple discussions with them about this (expecting they will respect your boundaries… yeah not gonna happen). They then tell everyone you called the police on them when they stopped by to pick up your kids sports equipment (failing to disclose they also opened your mail, took all the financial documents, stole your grandmothers platter and took your journals from wreckoncilation (where you blamed yourself for their previous infidelities) to prove to everyone “you admit it was your fault they cheated”, when you were in a state of panic trying to save your marriage. It gets ugly chumps! Don’t put anything past them. All they want is to win and you to lose.

ANC
ANC
6 years ago
Reply to  Got-a-brain

Yes. This at all costs.

Being in this flight-fight mode with these assholes is hard on chumps’ mind/body wellness. Please take extra care of yourselves.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago

This so describes my 1st husband. He was truly disordered although he never cheated on me… just beat the living shit out of me.

To tell the truth, **I** feel like this describes me more than my cheating ex husband. Except my channel has largely been on rage and self pity. Fuck the charm, I don’t want his ass back, but I DO want him to regret what he did to me. He’s mostly gone grey rock on me and I won’t lie and say it’s not infuriating. Seriously, he’s got no right…

But I’m caring less, so that’s something…

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower36

You’ll be over the hump in the healing process once you fully accept that (a) you will never get an apology or remorse from the cheater, (b) if you do, it will be fake and impression management, and (c) don’t give a damn if you get the apology.

Indifference, it’s what’s for dinner.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I really don’t care if he apologizes. He’s not going to. But oh, I would love to be there when he has that “OH shit, what the hell did I do?” moment. I don’t even need him to wish he was back with me, I just want him to realize his twu wuv ain’t all that she’s cracked up to be, and I’d like HIM to be the chump when he catches her blowing some other dude in the supply closet at the hospital like she did to him.

I would SO enjoy that….the thought puts a smile on my face.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
6 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower36

Change the story you’re telling yourself: it’s already happened. He brought himself into that so-called “relationship.” But, it’s a million times worse because that “relationship” was built on the ashes of you and your kids. If X has any thoughts at all, it’s probably just annoyance that the light in the fridge (you and your kids) is out. They do not see us as human or think like we do. By definition, they were capable of THIS so they aren’t like US (e.g. Normal people capable of honesty, maturity, empathy).

If you think the “new narrative” (they aren’t human) enough, you’ll get to meh (that fabulous land where you are so busy living a peaceful and fulfilling life that you could care less what they do or what happens to them).

Hugs