UBT: The NYT Review of Sarah Manguso’s Liars
The Universal Bullshit Translator digests “Whose Account Can You Trust?” the New York Times review by Brian Dillon of Sarah Manguso’s book Liars.
***
The typical diet of the Universal Bullshit Translator consists of lurid sexts, non-apology apologies, and “Behold my journey of self-actualization!” mistress confessionals. It generally avoids the higher echelons of literary criticism (excepting Alain du Botton). Not because there isn’t bullshit in literary criticism, but because the UBT prefers earthier subjects like venereal disease.
Today, however, the UBT is making an exception for Irish critic Brian Dillon. A man as trenchant as a dish sponge. Who completely misses the point in his review of Sarah Manguso’s novel Liars, asking “Whose account can you trust?”
The narrator’s, you idiot.
It’s the story of one woman’s shitty marriage, told from the chump perspective. What’s so difficult to grasp here?
No, Tracy! It could be one of these tricksy literary devices! The unreliable narrator!
Right, like Henry James’ The Turn of the Screw. Only instead of a barmy governess reporting ghosts, we have Jane relating her terrible marriage. Don’t believe the mad woman! As if marital dysfunction was a leprechaun she imagined.
Let’s toss Brian Dillon’s review of Sarah Manguso’s Liars into the crushing mandibles of the Universal Bullshit Translator.
The aggrieved wife who narrates Sarah Manguso’s novel “Liars” may or may not be a reliable source about her monster of a husband.
I wrote “aggrieved” because hysterical cunt wouldn’t fit the deck.
Are husbands ever monsters? Let’s question the veracity of wives instead.
The cardinal mystery in Sarah Manguso’s second novel (she has also published several books of poetry, short stories and nonfiction) goes unplumbed until halfway through, when a neighbor is aghast at the narrator’s marital predicament: “Why are you still with him?”
A millennia of patriarchy aside, it’s a mystery why women stay in shitty marriages. Aghast neighbors everywhere wonder: “Why are you still with him?” and not: “Why are you such a waste of carbon, John?”
Jane, a writer with a teaching job, has been following her husband, John, back and forth across the United States while he parlays his failing art career into a lucrative one in film production. Now she barely writes, struggles to find academic work, spends her days caring for their son and coping with the fallout of John’s chaotic habits and wild ego. “He was the main character, and I was his wife. His mother had also been a wife. Wives and more wives, all the way down.”
Speaking for critics with dubious art careers, I resent this portrayal of a fuckwit and his partner appliance!
And yet Jane stays, because she believes a certain narrative: Theirs is a happy marriage, a happy family. “Liars” is an unflagging and acridly funny assault on that story, but also a formally canny study of how such tales get told — and how fragile our replacements may turn out.
Jane stays because she believes a certain narrative of happy marriage. Which has been spoon fed to her since childhood. Reinforced in every therapist office promoting reconciliation. Contained in every best-selling self-help book about infidelity. Weaponized in our political discourse (“childless, cat-lady“.) Culturally reinforced in every religious tradition. Gosh, the forces that compel Jane to stay in her shitty marriage are an absolute mystery.
Frankenfuckwit
What class of monster is John? Let me count his grisly ways. There are the dominating facts of his adultery, his definitive abandonment of Jane and the industrious untruth that goes with such ventures. But long before the end of their marriage he has been an exhausting object choice. He borrows $8,000 from Jane to make a movie and doesn’t pay it back; as his fortunes expand, he mocks her for not making enough money; he criticizes one of her books in company, saying she should have followed his advice about its structure; he tells people about her time in a psychiatric ward; he blames her for his own depression; he throws up his hands at tiny disappointments (the life model at his drawing class is a man!) and lounges about playing video games; he wants to know why his wife is so much angrier than other women.
Then there are the faults that would vex only a writer. Visiting Jane at her artist residency in Greece — she won a spot, he didn’t — John tries to impress the lunch table by bad-mouthing James Joyce. Worse: “I noticed that he used the word phenomena as a singular noun.”
Jane is a grammar nazi. I think she deserves chlamydia.
In other words John is very much his own creep, but also quite generic. His misdeeds range from the psychically devastating — without him Jane imagines herself not in the arms of a loving partner, but “dying alone, cradled by the universe” — to the seemingly trivial: He holds the baby wrong and throws his back out, he impulse-buys $40 worth of scallops. Beyond his physical attractiveness, he appears not to have a single redeeming feature.
John’s misdeeds are devastating, but can you really believe the account of a woman who would criticize scallop expenditures?
That is to say, John is both a convincing stand-in for large and small aspects of patriarchy, and a pure artifact of Jane’s rage,
Jane’s anger is misdirected. She’s enraged at the patriarchy. John is just a stand in, a bit of collateral damage, a caricature. Such creatures surely don’t exist! Can we really believe an angry woman about the details of her marriage?
(Someone needs to slap Brian upside the head with a pure artifact.)
a caricature from which much of the novel’s exasperated comedy derives — “Why are you still with him?” It is possible, Manguso’s broader narrative drift seems to suggest, to come back from this rage (and disbelief at one’s credulousness) to rescue much from life and art. But the litany — telling the marriage as one worries a rosary — remains, a weight of mundane fact that follows Jane around.
Abandonment is so mundane. A domestic triviality to fiddle with over your rosary beads.
As the title alerts us, there is more than one liar in this novel. How much should we trust Jane’s monologue, her she-said-she-said control of the narrative?
THE SCALLOPS WERE $30!
I’m sorry the UBT is malfunctioning. Is this a review of Sarah Manguso’s Liars or a tribunal on scorned wives? Are we burning Amber Heard effigies at noon? Must. soldier. on….
It is not so much that Manguso’s narrator is merely unreliable, hiding her own spousal failings and misrepresenting a more innocent or hapless John.
YOU DROVE HIM TO IT, JANE, ADMIT IT!
Rather, “Liars” is interested in all the levels of storytelling that make up a marriage, that invent or bolster the idea of marriage in the first place, even for a smart and skeptical woman like Jane. Nobody is not a narrator in this setup; they are all spinning competing tales.
There’s no truth, only situational truth. Two sides to every story. No one knows what really goes on inside a marriage. Yes, even a smart and skeptical critic like Brian Dillon believes patriarchal tropes of bothsiderism that absolve abusers from accountability by attacking the credibility of their accusers.
Manguso, whose previous books have explored the laconic form of the aphorism and repurposed her own diaries,
Manguso, who is a much more celebrated writer than I could ever hope to be…
here moves between fragmented and staccato registers — one brute fact after another — and interludes where Jane tries to write and rewrite a condensed version of her story in medias res, hoping to enliven the uniform font of her married life with italicized clarity. You could read “Liars” purely as an experiment in combining competing styles and narratives into one story — and that’s also what a marriage is.
When Jane and John are first together, marriage seems fantastical: “I’m a real wife, I thought, setting the table with cloth napkins. It felt like a parlor game.” Naiveté, disbelief or playful and ironic distance? It makes no difference; quite soon Jane “floated face down in housewifery.”
A condition, like the rest of her relationship, that involves infinitely subtler modes of narration, whether solace for her self-pitying husband or self-consolation in her moments of doubt about the whole enterprise. A question the novel will not easily answer: How to know when you are telling stories to those you love, let alone to yourself?
Surely Jane didn’t mean her vows. She knew marriage was an artifice all along, right? Jane was in on the parlor game. You can’t tell me a sophisticate like Sarah Manguso would actually write a truthful portrait of a marriage. This must be some literary ruse. You don’t expect me to actually relate to “floated face down in housewifery”?
(On the basis of this review, the UBT can absolutely imagine Brian Dillon floating face down in a manure lagoon.)
Being subsumed by marriage is not a thing. Losing your identity to a fuckwit is not a thing. The unequal burden of childcare is not a thing. I question Jane’s despair. I blame her for her husband’s wandering dick. And I doubt the truth of her story. That dick is probably tethered safely at home, penitent, never more to roam. I don’t know why Jane exaggerates so viciously. Menopause?
Jane is a liar. Isn’t Sarah Manguso Aren’t I clever?






I always called those manure pits (dairy cattle) or hog lagoons (self-explanatory). Either way, can we push him into one or the other?
In another lifetime I covered agriculture, dairy farming in particular. And “manure lagoon” was what they called them in Lancaster County, PA. I tucked it away in my brain, apparently waiting for this day.
I learn things every day. Thanks, Chump Lady!
Interesting! I lived in a farming community in central VA while working for a mixed-practice vet (he did farm calls in the afternoon; small animal in the morning) and this is the nomenclature I learned.
A reference to shoo fly pie must be pending.
I am really sorry that a precious opportunity like a NYT book review — for both author and potential readers — was wasted in such an misogynistic, wilfully ignorant way. What is wrong with the NYT?! They are the patriarchy masquerading as objective and leaning liberal.
I hope this creates controversy that brings attention and better sales. It certainly ticked me off and made me think of my ex who thinks children raise themselves and houses run on fairy dust. Remember, Sarah, here’s no such thing as bad press!
It reminds me of how Times’ editors responded with hysterically stupid spin to the 2014 Gallup poll which found American tolerance of adultery has only plummeted in the past twenty years, falling many slots below approval for abortion and human cloning. Never mind the fact that approval for gay marriage among the same people polled had risen very sharply from years before which strongly suggests the people polled weren’t religious bigots, the editorial wailed about how infidelity intolerance could only relate to puritanical religious radicalism.
How to say, “We editors like to cash in our shiny Times’ creds for pussy buffet” without actually saying it.
(… if you click on the link to see Brian Dillon’s photo — he looks exactly like you think he would. Sorry not sorry.)
!!!
He looks like he’d be fun at parties, lol!
Oh please, Brian. Are you so butt hurt from mommy/wife/sister having your number or being right about you that you think all women must be wrong about their own experiences? Project much, there? I’m beginning to believe more than the majority of men just might be brain damaged. Or perhaps they were dropped on their heads…
I’m sure it’s not the majority but I definitely think shitty people are louder and more fanatical in defending and promoting their dankness than normal people are in expressing normal ethics so it creates the illusion of majority.
This is the problem.. EVIL.follows no rules..Goodness has a conscience.
Beautifully put.
Tracy,
Thank you for acting as the very necessary UBT for this particular piece of trash writing (oh, I’m sorry, I meant to write NYT book review).
It is worth mentioning again that CL and CN are mentioned by the author in Sarah Manguso’s acknowledgments in Liars.
There is much to say about this book:
– The STORY!!! We all lived it. The million small cuts of abuse that destroyed our self-confidence and self-esteem. The gaslighting. The cheaters version of reality being presented as the truth. Reading it I often felt like my head was spinning in circles while still attached to my neck.
– The author’s writing style was a first for me. I’m sure there is a name for her style but I don’t know the term. I felt as if I was her BFF listening to her in real life while she was trying to explain the chaos that her marriage had become. I used to say I felt like a deer caught in car headlights during my divorce. Seeing something hurling towards me yet frozen in place not quite comprehending the situation. This is how I sensed the author felt while writing the main character.
But did Brian Dillon understand any of this? Did he even try? NO! What he did instead was present his very obvious views on infidelity. That there are two sides to every story. REALLY!?!?
I’m betting that Dillon is one of the fortunate ones that have never walked in my shoes. Lucky him. But do your job and review the book – don’t share your biased opinion and call it a review!
For anyone who has read the book, please take the time to review Liars on Amazon and/or Goodreads. Anyone who is a member of Chump Nation who also understands our reality is worth taking a few moments to acknowledge her work.
For anyone that hasn’t read the book, get it or request that your library get it so more people can read it. Im sure there are many more people like Brian Dillon out there who could stand to learn that there aren’t always two sides to every story.
We’re just too stupid to see the nuances in the book.
That’s why we need Brian to explain it to us, with Latin.
But those are big words that have to be explained at length to us humble riff-raff.
Whatever would we do without clever people like Brian to lecture us all?
He probably sniffs his own farts.
I suspect that he not only sniffs his own farts, but that he rates them and records the results in a Spreadsheet on his laptop.
LFTT
He most likely does; I wonder if he does a pairing list too…
Josh,
He probably puts the pairing notes in the “Remarks” column on his spreadsheet.
LFTT
I wonder whether Brian would review a piece written from a male perspective in a similar fashion …. or was this review just a result of his internalised misogyny coming out to play?
LFTT
What a messy mess, indeed! The word salad is extreme. The misogyny is disturbing.
Some people were convinced that if I stayed married just a bit longer, happiness and God’s blessings would certainly come my way. We had two very different narratives of the marriage’s history, and reconciling was the answer to bringing those together into something “beautiful,” or so I was told.
That made my head spin, as I weighed the adage, “Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.” I truly had no reason to believe that anything would change. We had already been through many cycles of breakup, reconciliation, and then back to disorder. He had a history of addiction and mental health issues that “some people” chose to push to the side. “Not a factor,” they said. I didn’t have enough faith and/or my upbringing made me prone to giving up too soon. Or so they said.
Nah. The divorce had to be, and his behavior was very disordered with his attorney. At times he was suicidal, and the attorneys were concerned about a murder-suicide situation. We had to weigh a protective order at times.
I pushed all of the naysayers way, far away.
Just, wow. So wow. If only Manguso had cared to spill some ink on the point of view of John! [My eyes hurt from rolling so far back in my head that I can see my amygdala]. Poor, poor John. He had it hard, too, you know!
“People/characters are complex!” No, sometimes they are depressingly simple. Sometimes people are just narcissistic assholes.
I’m tired of the anti-hero/redeemable villain tropes. Maybe Hannibal Lector and Cruella Devil are just psychopaths who will skin people/animals alive.
“Sometimes people are just narcissistic assholes.” THIS!
It appears to me as if he is reviewing this book as if it’s a biography, or as Tracy adeptly points out, a mystery/thriller. It’s neither of those things. It’s a novel based on the point of view of the narrator. Maybe he could review “The Help” next and tell us that we can’t trust Aibileen Clark’s perspective.
I’d also bet money Brian has cheated on his wife.
This is what I think.too…and all the bad things his wife or former lovers Said about poor him!!!!
People like this Asshat, so many people actually, are tone deaf to what infidelity causes, the trauma and catastrophic destruction. And it is so simple to victim blame. But why? Why can’t people let the blame lay where it should, which is with the cheater? They are getting something out of playing Switzerland, or blaming the victim, some kind of sadistic satisfaction. Just boggles the mind (a healthy/healthier mind). I will never understand it, not in a bazillion years.
Yeah. Setting aside the not-unlikely scenario that this critic is a cheater himself, our culture has a disturbing lust for blaming the victim. My theory is that blaming the victim allows people to maintain their sense of safety and justice – that they are a human being with free will living in a just and ordered universe with a loving God, instead of a mortal creature living in a brutal, uncaring, chaotic universe.
In reality, bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people, heroes die tragically, and villains live in luxury. Despite our books, movies, television, and Madison Ave. fairy tails, evil things happen every day.
For most people, to acknowledge this literally causes a crisis of faith.
So to prove just how naive I still am after all I have been through with my FW, it did not occur to me at all that this book review dude might also be a cheater. With the current rate of men cheating, which is said to be around 65% (but maybe higher since so many lie and don’t admit they have cheated), it is totally within the realm of possibilities, which is why he took suck a snarky tone to his review and victim blamed/shamed.
And for the other stuff you said, agree. These people just think they are above that happening to them. “It will never happen to me.” I know this because I thought the same thing. I thought my husband would never do that to me and I actually used to tell him I was so lucky to have him because he was “one of the good ones” and wasn’t like all these other husbands that treated their wives like crap. Fast forward 26.5 years later and he not only cheated on me, tried to kill me too.
It is so easy and comfy to live in that fantasy world…
I’m so sorry that happened to you, and I’m glad you are out. As for the critic and his cheating, my first thought was “methinks thou dost protest too much.” He sounded overly defensive in a way his Latin references couldn’t hide.
But victim blaming is why I very, very rarely tell people what happened in my divorce. Unless I know someone is prepared to support me or, at the very least, not point their finger back at me, then I cannot even waste my time.
As for the 65% of men, I just can’t even. Honestly, that statistic sounds like it could be accurate enough, which is just freaking depressing. For those who want to cleave to the idea of an ordered universe, a just God, and free will, there will be an enormous amount of men who will have some explaining to do in the afterlife.
Yes, since the 10 Commandments specifically call out adultery. Hard to come up with an argument to get out of that…
Oh yeah, and they use to stone them too.
FW: “Uh, well, God, your Holiness, you see, after we had kids she was giving all her attention to them …”
God: “Oh well, in that case, it was ok that you banged that stripper.”
[eyeroll emoji]
I am definitely a big believer in karma. Not only will they have explaining to do in the afterlife, but I’m positive they get karma while still on the planet, whether they like to admit it or not. Mine started having this horrible body pain all over his body, soon after D-day and as far as I know (we share adult kids) has yet been diagnosed and can’t find any medication to help it, other than steroids. And we all know those are bad for you long term.
But it is depressing to think about that number, 65%, which means 6.5 men out of 10 will be cheaters (and since we can’t cut a man in half, we round up to 7 out of 10). So makes it hard to want to go out and try dating again, especially if you already have trust issues, which most of us chumps do thanks to our FW’s.
Call me naive, because that 65% is somehow shocking to me despite the size of chump nation. But how’s this for depressing? That 65% isn’t just saying 65% of relationships involving at least one man will experience cheating. As we know, they do it again and again in future relationships. (And that number is JUST the men)
Which brings to mind something I’ve wondered about before. How the heck do people (all genders) find TIME for all this cheating? I mean, if you work an 8 hour day, 5 days a week, and commute for 10 hours a week, and have to sleep at least a few hours a night, and have to show your face at home enough to keep your spouse from getting suspicious…I’ve read enough stories on here to understand that people DO find time, but how?
In my case, it was a long distance affair so a lot of it was conducted via text. He was likely chatting with her while IN the same room as me. For years. Without me having a clue.
You know the age old adage, and something my mother used to say…”It’s hard to find good men.” And with that type of number, 65%, that rings true. But not all men are bad. It’s just makes it harder to find the good ones and us chumps need to fix our picker, evidently.
I have make friends that are excellent spouses to their wives. Actually, it just occurred to me that a LOT of my closest friends have solid marriages. Statistically, I guess I took the bullet for them?
Looks can be deceiving. All of our friends thought our marriage was amazing and they wished theirs was like ours, etc. They said these things. And look what my FW did to me…
You never really know. But I am sorry you are here with the rest of us because that means you have been betrayed. The good thing is, we are all in this together and help each other!
“us chumps need to fix our picker, evidently.”
It also wouldn’t hurt if 65% of men stopped being such lowlife pieces of sh**, lol.
Absolutely would be great if less people were FWs. It’s actually just so sad that so many people are willing to betray those closest to them in such a horrible way.
But in my specific case, it was absolutely my picker. There were red flags early on and throughout our marriage that in hindsight, I can’t believe I missed. But for every Chump like me, there is one that had NO signs and whose picker seemed to be working great. (Don’t get me wrong, D-Day was shocking for me too, but there were plenty of signs that he was an abusive, selfish FW and so it shouldn’t have actually been THAT shocking that an abusive, selfish FW would cheat)
Haha, excellent point! Seems I still have a ways to go with my healing. But I think Tracy has mentioned fixing our pickers too!
Speaking of “WTF did I just read?” did anyone else catch today’s work advice from Karla Miller? I snipped part of the submission because I don’t want our host to get in trouble.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/07/25/work-advice-mixing-love-and-work/
My co-worker is cheating on his wife with a woman who works at our company. They’re on separate teams with different projects, so management won’t care. I walked in on them in a supply closet so I’m absolutely certain about the affair, but it would be my word against theirs. They’re not stupid, so it’s unlikely they’re using company email for communicating.
I feel complicit for not telling his wife about this. I can’t pretend she’s a stranger, but we’re not close enough that I know what’s going on inside their marriage. They have a small child and are trying for a second.
I want to help this woman, but not at the cost of my job. I don’t care if he knows it was me, but how do I do this without getting in trouble with HR for creating a hostile work environment?
Karla’s unsatisfying reply can be summed up with one statement:
In short, I don’t see any way for you to take action that does the wife — or you — more good than harm. You don’t have enough of a personal connection to justify involving yourself in a deeply personal matter.
Karla is an asshole. Too bad they wouldn’t print that. This woman should go to HR, even if they don’t do anything, and tell her tale. It’s the right thing to do, it documents what happened, and it protects her from retaliation and fake stories from these two losers in the closet. And then she should get a message to the wife, even anonymously before she makes another child with this guy. People are so fucking cowardly now, it astounds me.
people who think “going to HR” will solve the problem have never gone to HR.
She should definitely report the fucking in the cupboard. No-one wants to see that. It’s a disciplinary at the very least, thought that may hinge on the importance of the individuals to the organisation.
There’s a lot going on here, but it is truly bizarre that the reviewer considers the narrator’s including both large (adultery, abandonment) *and* small (scallop purchases) complaints about her husband to somehow undercut the narrator’s trustworthiness. As if one class of offense somehow makes the other less probable, or less convincing. It’s possible to be both a bad spouse *and* kind of a jerk. No one can be committing adultery 24/7: there is plenty of time to be just kind of annoying on rest days.
“…here moves between fragmented and staccato registers — one brute fact after another — and interludes where Jane tries to write and rewrite a condensed version of her story in medias res, hoping to enliven the uniform font of her married life with italicized clarity.”
As someone who’s written his share of book reviews, I must say this is astounding drivel as writing, not just as content. Just the sort of thing that people write when they want you to forget that they’re reviewing another writer, and say “By golly, this here fella can really write! Look at those big WORDS that only dazzling literary geniuses can use! When can I read his book?!?”
I’ll wager he wrote this as a direct assault on whoever is out there talking about his scallop purchases with the same contempt.
As my former law professor once said “if the other attorney starts quoting in Latin, that means they are losing.”
Again as with TV and movies, the System that runs our society and supports the arts directly or indirectly, supports and encourages adultery. It’s an excuse for their own actions of course, but it also breaks down families which assists the Government (any Government) in getting bigger and stronger (hence more opportunities to steal which is what most politicians go into office for). A System based on lies will always support liars.
I’ve been looking a lot at the whole phenomenon of lying lately. Too lengthy to get into here, it would be tedious, but once someone starts lying about their life, they almost always continue lying and the lies become deeper, more elaborate, more effortless (with practice), more consistent, until they reach a point where not only can’t the liar extricate themselves from their own lies (my Grandma always said a liar needs a good memory) but they come to believe many of the lies themselves. Actually believe them. They lose touch with reality partly because the maze of lies becomes impossible to follow or to escape from, but they constantly try to justify and defend themselves. Life becomes a war of defend and attack or attack and defend, rather than a collaboration with any other person. They get angry when people accuse them, rightly, of lying and will fight back viciously, sometimes physically. The more they lie, the worse they are in doing this. They come up with new lies and dramatic scenarios in order to bury the old lies as fast as possible. Keep YOUR ADVERSARY (the person who doesn’t believe the lie or questions you) off balance by constantly presenting new problems – it makes the old ones fade away (they hope).
So you can never trust a liar because they murder the truth, they kill it and they keep trying to kill it over and over. Once you know the truth, you have to act on it and stop listening to them. You will never get a straight answer, except by accident. And a liar will always be your adversary as they are always seeking to protect themselves and their lies and bolster them, and as you seek the truth, you become the enemy trying to tear down the fortress.
there is one way they speak the truth: projection.
Don’t they just.
Lying has a way of catching up, just look at all the totalitarian regimes that have collapsed. Lies upon lies becomes unsustainable at some point. Unfortunately, many people are hurt or killed during the process.
Oh my yes. I was just watching a great YouTube channel the past few nights “Royalty Now Studios” which picks a famous historical person, gives a really good precis biography & then an art reconstruction what they looked like from period photos or coins, etc. I just watched the one on the Romanovs which I found devastating. It’s such a freaking sad story, it made my heart ache. It took 80 YEARS for that story to come out in entirety – the collapse of the Soviet Union 80 YEARS after they were murdered and I think another 10 or so to find their grave sites. Up until then people thought 1 or 2 of the kids may have survived. It’s been 60 years since the murder of JFK and the documents are STILL being hidden. So lies and perfidy can take a long time to uncover and it sometimes takes the collapse of empires before the truth is known. That is how feared and how deadly and how cleansing the truth is. It’s the most powerful force on earth.
By the way I cannot recommend this YT channel highly enough for anyone who loves history and/or art….Royalty Now Studios – it’s a couple I believe, they do an amazing job with the storytelling, the art work and the music. One of the best things on YouTube.
There are so few books on this subject written by or from an actual Chump’s experience. The only one I can recall off hand is Nora Ephron’s book.
I’m sick to death of people endlessly parroting that there is no such thing as absolute truth and there are two sides to a story.
Two perspectives yes- but there is only ever ONE truth.
Someone is always bullshitting when the accounts don’t match up.
People like old mate Brian need to realise that just because they don’t know or recognise the truth of a situation doesn’t mean it isn’t so.
The hysterical bitter woman trope is so very old and tired.
So my marriage is currently ending because my FW had a 6 year long distance affair. He is also emotionally, mentally and verbally abusive, so not just a cheater. His 6 year affair ended just as he was looking at apartments to move out. I suspect she dumped him, he claims he ended it. In any case, when it ended, he wanted to reconcile. I declined.
So now his version of the story is that I am responsible for our marriage ending, because I refused to reconcile after his SIX year affair. When I bring up how abusive he was aside from the cheating, he says that’s also my fault for not being more assertive in telling him that all his screaming and criticism bothered me. Had I communicated that better, we would have been tighter and he never would have had to cheat.
These days, when he tries to bait me into arguments, I am very good at not engaging. Except sometimes I DO take the bait and then I wish I hadn’t. In speaking to my therapist I realized that the arguments I couldn’t walk away from were all when he would throw the blame on ME. I also acknowledged that I already know there is no point to having more arguments on this topic. We’ve had SO many discussions on this topic and neither of us is ever going to waiver from our wildly different stances.
My therapist said “You can just let him HAVE his ridiculous/BS version. His disagreeing with your version doesn’t make it any less true. You don’t need HIM to accept it for it to be true”.
I honestly don’t know WHAT he actually believes. I’m sure he truly believes some of what he says. But for example, he can’t possibly believe that reconciliation was possible after a 6 year affair. I found out 3 years in, and lived with him for 3 more years while said long distance affair was ongoing. He routinely told me how miserable he was with me and ALL the reasons I was a subpar wife. Then suddenly once she was gone, ALL that was supposed to be wiped from my memory?
All to say, that there are 2 sides to MY divorce story. And I am not perfect, so I’m sure he has some valid complaints against me. But we are absolutely divorcing because he was an abusive cheater and not because I am a rigidly unforgiving person that should have complained more about being abused. So yes, the whole “there are 2 sides to every story” concept also irks the hell out of me. It probably has merit when it’s two young siblings that were fighting and a parent is trying to get to the bottom of it. But as far as this book goes? Nope.
There’s nothing you can say to someone like this. They have the whole story worked out and ornamented in their own minds and no matter what you say, they’ll just bounce it back that you’re wrong because they have to be right. There’s no mutuality here. I used to try to argue with abusive people (frequently bosses at work) and it just never went anywhere because when you start off in a defensive position – having done something terrible you have to defend – you can never afford to be wrong. The OTHER person has to be wrong entirely. It’s war – defend/attack….it’s really never, come let us reason together. Not in any honest way. He’s been dumped so he returns to you but….unless he changes himself voluntarily he’s only going to look for someone else anyway because his problems, which he will not acknowledge, have not been addressed. The inevitability of it all is sad and exhausting. Because I like to make my opinion known, for someone like this I might tell them what I think (I’m not known for holding back) or write it down (if it wouldn’t hurt me in the divorce) but it would only be for releasing steam or any burden I felt I was carrying, not to hear endless bullshit retorts from a FW. This is why No Contact becomes the best way because we don’t get dragged into endless, pointless discussions…er…one sided arguments….about why WE are wrong. At some point you just have to say, fuck you and leave.
Absolutely yes to everything you said.
Well see, since you’re his wife appliance, you’re supposed to wipe your memory and reconcile with him. (/s)
My Dog. After a 6 year affair, he expected that? I’m with your therapist though. Let him live with his delusions.
Honestly, it was so frustrating because he made me second guess myself. I would say “I can’t get past it” and he would say “you can, but you WON’T”. (easy for HIM to say, I was loyal as hell, he was the one that lied tome for years while planning to discard me)
And of course, leaving a FW is always the right choice, but in the moment for many it is heartbreaking and terrifying. So I spent a lot of time really conflicted as it would have been wonderful to just stop, forget everything that happened and move forward, stronger… like all the RIC Monsters are preaching. But I knew that I would never be ok. I didn’t want to be the marriage police. And let’s face it, there really is no doubt for me at all that he would have done it again. And again. (Now that he is in a new serious relationship I sometimes struggle to “trust they suck” and lament that maybe he will be faithful to her. Not that I wish cheating on her, but more just the idea that it was ME that he couldn’t be faithful to. Or that he is suddenly going to become the amazing guy I thought he was for so long)
Having not read the book yet, I did listen to the interview on the podcast. I know I was painting at the time, but I must remember the AUTHOR’S STATED INTERPRETATION much differently. Which is, you know, canon.
And my degree(s) are not in literary criticism-please tell me the education for such is more nuanced than “Sal Paradise doesn’t actually exist”?
And finally, me kneejerk, misandrist reaction-can we get a review from “not a man”? The nausea induced by the half of the article I could get through sadly prohibits my more than skimming our reactions here-but methinks “Brian” here wasn’t going into this one with an open mind or without a vested interest in the counter point.
And it reeks of misogyny.
That was my favorite UBT so far on a long list of favorites.
Maybe it’s just coincidence that Brian Dillon looks like an Irish INSEL but the redpill psychobabble stinking up his review suggests some books actually can be judged by their covers.
In any case, those who live by Latin-strewn psychobabble should expect to die by it, but I don’t know if I could take enough Maalox to be able to read some of his literary contributions and biographical stuff in order to figure out his twisted “modus operandi.” Like, is he shilling because he’s desperate for a byline and was assigned the hatchet job by cheater-coddling Times’ management or because he has some dysfunctional dog in the fight that would explain his old-timey victim-negation and abuse apologism? On a serious note, does the latter relate in any way to the reasons for his mother’s suicide when he was sixteen? Was she a victim of childhood or adult abuse? Did Dillon grow up witnessing abuse and was this minimized and normalized where he grew up? (my Irish dad and the McCourt brothers used to call the NYC St. Patrick’s parade a “procession of wife beaters and homophobes” at least in the years before the LGBT ban was lifted in 2014). Did he internalize an abuser role model? And, just out of curiosity, does his studio apartment look like a dinky Ikea version of Andrew Tate’s Romanian trafficking lair?
He looks like a sad sack to me who is probably generally intimidated by women.
Just came across another example of chump blaming, also, as it happens, in the New York Times:
“One common reason for a drawn-out divorce is a broken heart, which can lead to vindictive or bitter behavior that prolongs the process.
According to Jeralyn Lawrence, a divorce lawyer in Watchung, N.J., in cases in which one person is blindsided by the divorce — if there was infidelity, for instance, or if someone was deceived or betrayed financially — he or she may not be ready to let go of the marriage, and may still be trying to process the news.”
Yet again, the chump is portrayed as unreasonable, bitter, and (my favorite because my ex used it on me) vindictive. Ugh.
from NYTimes 7/25/24 “You Don’t Need a French Vineyard to Have a Prolonged Divorce Proceeding”
The victim blaming and minimization of betrayal is social cancer that is maddening at times.
Wonder if Jeralyn ever thought maybe the reason the D is delayed is that the chump is trying to get back some of the money squandered on a whore by claiming her right to up to three years of temp maintenance payments. That is why I asked for six months, I didn’t think I could stand 3 years. At six months I had saved enough to put a down payment down on a one bedroom apt, if I had needed that. Anyway, at the six month date, fw delayed it. Never did find out why. I was ok with it as long as he was paying my living expenses.
I imagine sometimes the cheater is delaying, trying to figure out a way to get out without losing anything.
Not everyone is flush in a D.
Cue Nora Ephron!!! She made movies on her narratives!!!.Nora, like I, was left in the delivery room so my then husband could celebrate with his mistress! But all made up and lies!! Why he was a stand up guy and cut the cord before he left!!!!!!! This guy Brian Dillon, has some ANGER issues and gets NOTHING about the story. NYT is a narrative!!!! The whole paper is STORIES! Brian must have experienced several divorce processes…. with her lawyer saying mean and awful things about HIM!He who writes reviews a High School Senior would have to rewrite!! Hopefully his diatribe review, lacking any depth, will be flushed away while Brian goes back to the cave he crawled out of.
Well, I am definitely ordering it to read now!! Obviously it’s hitting too close for comfort for cheaters!!!
okay, this book is amazing. i too was chumped in the early days of the pandemic and, well, the narrative is familiar. the businessman X with the businessman jargon, etc. etc. i was “fired” from my job during marital counselling, and he used words/phrases like “in all probability” and “past performance indicates future performance” and other performance indicators.
then he called me a “bad wife” because i was depressed and took anti-depressants for 4 years, right around the time my mom died of pancreatic cancer. i was her primary caregiver. nevermind I was also depressed because he worked all the time, contributed nothing to the household beyond $$most of which he spent, i uncovered in discovery, and was a functioning alcoholic. let the slow boil roll.
as for the $30 scallops, i sympathize. my X had a penchant for leather gloves. when he moved out, he had 45 pairs of leather gloves. 45 fucking pairs. then there were the leather jackets. gah.
anyway, Manguso’s book is astounding. as a writer, i’ve long admired her fragmented writing. her book 300 ARGUMENTS is astounding. but she really taps into the lies we’re taught as women; and the lies we tell ourselves to get by in “bare minimum or worse” relationships. this aspect of the whole experience is where i presently live, because i’m healing. but I still think about the lies i told myself and marvel. thank god for therapy.
I’m fairly certain he didn’t even read the book. I’m reading it now (love it, so far!) and much of those quotes occur very early in the book. Which begs the question….did he even read the book? Lazy thoughts, after all, accompany lazy actions.
The NEW YORK TIMES needs to hire Tracy as a commentator of their drivel. She is absolutely BRILLIANT and has Lazer come backs that are simply breath taking. That UBT is CLs alter ego, like a ventriloquist sounding out more truths than mortals can handle BRILLIANT And hysterical. I have never seen anything like it.
Okay, this book is amazing. I too was chumped in the early days of the pandemic and, well, the narrative is familiar. The businessman X with the businessman jargon, etc. etc. I was “fired” from my job during marital counselling, and he used words/phrases like “in all probability” and “past performance indicates future performance” and other performance indicators. Then he called me a “bad wife” because I was depressed and took anti-depressants for 4 years, right around the time my Mom died of pancreatic cancer. Yeah, I was also depressed because he worked all the time, contributed nothing to the household beyond $$, and was a functioning alcoholic. Let the slow boil roll.
Anyway, Manguso’s book is astounding. As a writer, I’ve long admired her fragmented writing. Her book 300 ARGUMENTS is astounding. But she really taps into the lies we’re taught as women; and the lies we tell ourselves to get by in bare minimum or worse relationships. This aspect of the whole experience is where I presently live, because I’m healing. But I still think about the lies I told myself and marvel. Thank god for therapy.
Brian your reasoning is fucked. If we accepted that the world operated on absolute individual moral relativism (Ie that every single individual constructs their own moral truths, values and narratives and each of these is defensible and valid and completely equal to the other and cannot be set against any prevailing universal notmativity ), why heck Brian, we wouldn’t have:
– universal human rights standards because moral relativism
Or
– elder abuse prohibitions because moral relativism
Or
– child abuse prohibitions because moral relativism
Or
– incarceration for those who inflict grievous bodily harm on strangers in the community because moral relativism
So Brian, you can see that we’re starting to run into some really fucked up problems with your approach.
There is such a thing as:
1- normative, shared, universal values (hmm shall we start with a few: how about ‘do no harm’/‘consent is a central value in human relationships’/‘reciprocity and trust are vital aspects of the social contract’
2- the prerogative, that’s right Brian, THE PEROGATIVE of the victims of these normative transgressions to speak to their experience
You can fuck right off Brian – and take Esther Perel with you while you’re at it….
Well said.
That was blistering Tracey. Great analysis and superb UBT prose. Big love.