Am I a Magnet for Abuse?
Are some people abuse magnets or just have bad luck? Why do we find ourselves in chump situations again and again?
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Hi Chump Lady,
Most people know that if you experience an abusive relationship, it’s easy to walk straight into another one. There isn’t just one freak out there; there are loads of them.
I knew about this, and I was careful not to date. However, a few months after my marriage blew up, I was offered a job with an employer who raised all the red flags. In my desperate state, I took the job anyway, and that’s okay.
What isn’t okay is that 6 years later, I’m still in that job.
It’s a family business combined with a cult. It served me well when raising the kids alone and during the pandemic. However, for the past two years, I have no excuse. I’m mad at myself because it’s only become worse, and it’s not like I can plead ignorance.
My friend often updates me about another chump she knows because our stories are similar and share the same timeline. Remarkably, her friend has not changed her job even though her ex-FW works in the same building. It’s unbelievable because they both work for a school district, and you’d think it would be easy for one of them to move.
Interestingly, both of us (chumps) stayed in situations that couldn’t possibly make us happy. I’ve broadened the idea of “Leave a cheater and gain a life” to encompass all no-win situations, including toxic jobs.
I’m scared, but I’m going to quit.
Thank you. I know I’ll be okay. I have a new position lined up as I transition to a new field. I’ll earn a lot less but eventually develop a life I want with choice and flexibility that I can build upon.
For those of us who pick-me-danced for far too long, it’s never too late to learn. “Is this acceptable to you?” No. Then get the hell out of there!! Did any other chumps find themselves mentally stuck, even though there’s no good reason for it? I’m not sure what came first, the chicken or the egg.
Did I get stuck because of the abuse, or did I experience the abuse because I was stuck?
PS. I know it’s a tough one, but as a magnet for these freaks, I’d love to learn more about repeat victimization, sometimes called victimology. Understanding it is key to stopping it.
Carole
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Dear Carole,
Congrats on leaving your job and making an investment in yourself for a better life. I don’t think you are an abuse magnet. That’s not a helpful concept. Like we have a tractor beam for fuckwits or something. I think a lot of fuckwits exist and learning how to deal with them is a skillset.
Why do we think we’re abuse magnets?
Besides the joyful self-flagellation of victim blaming? Because it gives us a sense of control (“It’s my fault, I can fix the FW!”) and a sense of resignation (“May as well stick it out, this is my fate. I’ll just meet another FW.”)
So, instead of looking at your relationships through the lens of “abuse magnet for freaks”, look at basic power dynamics. Some thoughts, which I’ll break down further.
- We don’t expect power dynamics in our relationships.
- We aren’t born with the skillset to deal with difficult people.
- Some backgrounds may make assertiveness more challenging.
- You can be strong and together and still get abused.
We don’t expect power dynamics in our relationships.
Relationships are based on trust, not exploitation. When you got married, you didn’t expect to be cheated on. No one signs up to be a spousal appliance. (Okay, maybe some mail order brides.) If you’re a trusting, egalitarian sort of person, you see the world through your own moral lens. “I wouldn’t cheat / pay shit wages / force you to labor in a sweat shop.” So you don’t expect others to behave exploitively.
You can apply this at the macro level. Some world orders are democratic — messy as democracy is, we all get a say. We have a constitution. We vote, we power share, we agree on the rule of law.
Other systems are authoritarian. It’s a zero-sum game. I win, you lose. Kiss my ring. Rules for thee and not for me.
Authoritarian systems are based on patronage. Play your cards right, I might grant you a favor. Or I might arbitrarily behead you. Everyone is pick-me-dancing to not fall out of favor, failing to realize that the game is rigged in favor of the authoritarian.
Now, to abuse anyone, you need hooks. Abusers don’t appear as evil villains twirling their mustaches. They promise wonderful things and you believe them. Eventually, you find you’re stuck in a nightmare. First you’ll probably try to deal by currying favor (pick me dancing) but soon you’ll realize the game is rigged. And the FW, like all despots, will make it hard to leave. You’re of use!
Should you beat yourself up as an abuse magnet? No. You should realize that some people prefer win-lose systems over egalitarian systems. And will try and hook you in order to take advantage of you. You needed a job, you thought you could manage the red flags, (you can’t, the game is rigged), and you left.
We aren’t born with the skillset to deal with difficult people.
From kindergarten on, we learn the rules of social engagement. The norms: wow to share, play together, apologize, work on team projects. Even though there are aberrations, like school yard bullies, (who show overt aggression) we assume we all share some basic values about how to get along. We aren’t prepared for con artists. Nor would you want to go through life assuming people are con artists, right? Trust is the glue that holds us all together.
That’s why being chumped is so gutting, so reality altering. Who is safe? What’s real? We can’t believe we’ve been party to a long con.
And then we’re in a world that expects our rule-breaking FWs to conform to norms! Get along for the children (which assumes FWs follow court orders and pay support), reconcile for a stronger marriage! (which assumes that FWs are sorry and will work to make amends). Chaos is a powerful manipulation tool because people expect reason.
Many people go through life blissfully unaware of FWs, because they haven’t had their pension fund stolen, or been cheated on while pregnant, or stalked. So when the Bad Thing happens to you, you have to suddenly pivot to an entirely different operating system. And some of us don’t pivot easily. Because…
Some backgrounds may make assertiveness more challenging.
Gender norms expect women to nice themselves out of situations, don’t show anger, appease. Some faith traditions put the onus to forgive on victims. Maybe you were raised in a chump/cheater family and learned pick me dancing early. Many factors hinder our ability to react to abuse appropriately — with strong, hard boundaries. Because, again, no one want to believe in FWs. You know who that favors? FWs.
You can be strong and together and still get abused.
In fact, there’s some evidence that abusers like a challenge. In the interview I did with Sandra Brown on dark triad personality disorders, she discusses a study out of Purdue that showed that “super traits” like high-self esteem and empathy made women good marks for predators.
All to say, you aren’t the weak antelope in the herd. The weak antelope has about the same chances of tangling with a FW as an over-achiever. It’s just that FWs exist and we aren’t equipped to cope with them.
Which is why I always come back to: Is this relationship acceptable to you? We can’t control monsters, but we can control what we put up with and our own sense of self worth.
When entangled with a FW, whether in our personal lives or on the job, we all wish we got out sooner. But the important thing is — you got out.


Carole,
When it comes to dealing with FWs, I think that a lot of them have what I would term a “Default Zero Sum Game” mindset; they can only “Win” when someone else (usually the Chump) is “Losing.” Basically, the Cheater’s win has to come at somebody else’s cost.
I had an old boss who encouraged me to look for people who have a “Positive Sum Game” outlook. When he explained this he was talking about my professional life, but – funny old thing – it works for other aspects of my life too. I now look for people who want other people to succeed and who are always looking for that part of the “solution space” where everybody walks away with something.
I avoid “Zero Sum Game” players whenever I can; both professionally and personally.
LFTT
This is a brilliant scoping out question. I’m going to suggest this filtering tool to my adult children.
In my opinion, many women of my age were raised to be too accommodating. For me that was compounded by an abusive mother and then loads of religious guilt that kept me married. I get that anyone can get in a horrible, tough spot in relationships, but I was set up for not getting the dynamic and blaming myself. Of course, the key though is that I got OUT. And my adult son and daughter know very differently.
I think that my ex was surprised by the fight I put up during the divorce. Late in the negotiations, his attorney told mine that he knew that I wasn’t the pushover my STBX said I was because of the attorney I picked. I picked someone his attorney greatly respected and liked, and I got myself someone who treated me as a big brother would. It took way longer than it should have and cost more than I could afford, but it got done.
I don’t think I’d be at all attracted to someone like my ex now. I’ve dated a little but am not into the “nurse and purse” aspect of dating older men. I’ve pretty much given up at this point and am enjoying my semi-retirement as-is.
He’s since passed away, but there was a local guy who pursued me for quite awhile who had many of the same characteristics of my ex. I was completely turned off and never went out with him. One of his daughter-in-laws is a friend of mine, and she actually asked me at the funeral if the deceased had ever asked me out. Yes, many times, but I always turned him down. “Good,” she said. How telling.
Have been reading about Virginia Giuffre who stood up against Prince Andrew, Jeffries Epstein and the world of abuse and entitlement. She was a teen when the horror started. Now 41 going through a divorce from her abusive spouse of 22 years, plus a custody battle- 3 kids…she took her life on Friday. Did she attract these abusive men? No she was sold, groomed and used. Many of us here have had traumatic childhoods with Abuse folded in. We learned how to cope by fawning, pleasing, begging being cute ..the list is endless of how we as chumps hide ourselves to stay alive or to be safe. There are horrible people all around us. The key for me after 2 cheaters, is to stay solo as I cannot take any more hurt, absolutely none. That is my Boundary now. But the other key is to cut ties as quickly as you can to stay safe abs get out. Get your ducks in a row but know it will not get better. As thar proverb I love to quote now is..yes birds cam fly over your head, you can’t stop that..but you can prevent them from making a nest in your hair.Losing another abused woman to a custody battle and overwhelming grief was so sad, but I will remember the courage it took for her to go against powerful forces to speak her voice
God bless her and her bravery. She stood up to some of the most powerful figures and institutions in the Western world.
It is heartbreaking that a ‘garden variety’ DV perpetrator crushed such an extraordinary person.
Bless her children too. I hope that one future day they’ll find healing and clarity and feel very proud of their brave mother.
Leaening,That was beautifully said and a wish that I hope comes true. Yes,It was a standard abuser that gave the final push…but the world had already taken its toll. She leaves a legacy for all of us….
Yes, I saw that in the news and then read more about her. What a suffering soul she was. Just horrible.
With the right type of friend, I like to say that I prefer being solo because it gives me the simple, calm life that I didn’t have during several decades of marriage. Priceless!
I hadn’t seen the news yet about Giuffre’s suicide. Because her suicide followed her loss of custody of her three teen children to her reportedly violent ex, the story sounds sadly relevant to CL’s recent post about the “Parental Alienation Industrial Complex” and how abusers are weaponizing family courts to get custody of children on the grounds that victims “alienate” children because children know about the abuse. Before she died, Giuffre claimed she was falsely accused by her estranged husband of breaking a family violence order and this was how her children ended up in the care of an alleged batterer. She described being in despair about it. It probably didn’t help that she ended up in the hospital after being hit by a school bus that left the scene.
The story also sounds sadly relevant to the theme of today’s post and how survivors of abuse have a 50% increased statistical risk of ending up in relationships with another abuser. But this doesn’t happen for the reason that idiot bystanders and blaming “helping professionals” assume (the idea that victims are drawn to abusers or draw abusers to themselves, blah blah) but because abuse is a kind of protection racket. Because victims who escape or speak out aren’t sufficiently protected or supported either socially or by the justice system, many may fall into the trap of entering relationships simply in order to get a 24/7 body guard.
True to form, Giuffre started a relationship with and quickly married martial artist Robert Giuffre while she was still being abused and exploited by Epstein and Maxwell and actually used the relationship as her excuse and escape hatch to end her ties to the latter. At the age of 19 and after years of rape and brutalization by adults with enormous resources and globally powerful political connections and after allegations surfaced in one trial that Epstein might even have had one child trafficking victim killed in order to silence them, Giuffre likely felt too exposed and at risk to escape Epstein’s clutches on her own.
But like the Roman poet put it, “Who will protect us from our protectors?” Giuffre’s “body guard” husband– with the help of family court– seems to have turned out to be her captor and tormentor who finished the project of destroying her that was started a quarter century ago by Epstein.
Anyway, what happened to Giuffre wasn’t a “self esteem” problem though I can imagine how what happened to her lowered her “esteem for the world” and her sense of safety in it which likely gave her a limited sense of options and hope. And, from the fact a family court seems to have taken her children away at the word of a violent batterer, would she have really been wrong in feeling unsafe in the world and out of hope? Not really. It seems like she was perfectly accurate.
It’s certainly helpful to build women’s sense of independence and self value in the case this helps them more easily escape the abuse that a depressingly high number of women fall prey to regardless of background, psychology, status, class, education or preexisting “self esteem.” But high self esteem won’t stop fists or bullets. It won’t stop clinical shills from promoting and profiting from “parental alienation” junk science to help domestic abusers take custody from victims as a tool of post-separation abuse and it won’t stop family courts from subscribing to this junk science and allowing justice to be weaponized by domestic abusers. Individual self esteem doesn’t change the protection racket.
I think the only thing that will stop the latter is relentless mobilization to change lousy policies and also lobby for better social science to support better policies and stiffer legal consequences for abusers in an age when science– for better or worse– often forms the basis for laws and policies.
Hell of a Chump, as always, succinct and accurate.
Breaks my heart and makes me furious that hers will be yet another funeral where many are standing around, eating sandwiches and wringing their hands, discussing suicide as a “Mental Health” issue.
Eg: “Poor Virginia, and her Mental Health. Her Mental Health made her suffer so much! Shows why the kids had to go to their father”.
Current social science puts everything through the lens of the individual, not the collective. Everyone has responsibility for themselves, everyone has to build their own self-esteem, make a success of themselves, be positive etc etc. If a person is struggling, it’s their own problem/fault.
Mental health crisis – ya think? Suicide epidemic – hmmm.
I think I read somewhere that societies in decline always quarantine mental suffering to individual deficiency rather than considering macro organizational issues or social effects.
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️THIS IS TRUTH💔💔💔💔💔💔 Hell of a chump, thank you. Feeling trapped leads to dark places. We must look for the light 🕯and move towards it. Always.
I also was saddened by the news that Virginia Giuffre took her own life. In a just world it should have been her abusers. She was set up for Epstein’s abuse by the earlier abuse she’d suffered, and Epstein was savvy enough to employ Ghislaine Maxwell as his procurer, knowing Maxwell would not set off the alarm bells a man would. May she rest in peace, and may her memory be a blessing.
i lit a candle for Virginia yesterday. It’s so sad.
I will do the same.
I was also saddened to hear about Virginia’s suicide. Had she not been so brave and spoken up, that horrible monster would still be alive and continuing to abuse young girls and women. God rest her soul.
I was abused by men in very similar ways (every way, actually) and I just stayed quiet with my own shame and humiliation, never had the courage to say anything to anyone. One of my abusers ended up going to prison for many years because the girl he was abusing had the courage to speak up to her mother and the mother had the courage to turn him in. My mother and father knew about my “relationship” with this older man ( he was in his 40’s, me 15) and said nothing, just stood by and let it happen. They say the police had seized a hoard of video tapes that he secretly taped of him having sex with his victims and I can assume I was on them. They never came to me because they probably didn’t know who I was. He went to prison several years after I was no longer with him and was married to my first Cheater FW. But I do remember once I closed his closet door that always seemed to be open and he got mad and opened it again and said, “Never close it again!”. I assume this is where the camera was, right across from the bed. And I also remember he had this dresser in the living room and it was full of video tapes and he also told me to stay out of there. I am embarrassed to think of the police watching those tapes with me on them. And I also wonder if he sold them, child porn?
Yet, when I became a mom, I told all of my children, boys and girls, to never let anyone do anything to them and they were to tell me immediately if anyone tried anything. I was always asking them if they were okay, if they needed to talk to me about something, etc. Funny how it was so easy for me to do that, but my mom…
What a fucked up world we live in! So bad that people would rather be dead than live in it! Very sad.
I’m so sorry this happened to you ChumpygirlKC. You were just a child.
As an adult I think it would have been difficult if not impossible for me to legally face off with a workplace stalker much less emotionally survive the kafkaesque “gauntlet” of criminal prosecution if my parents hadn’t pretty much trained me from infancy to speak out and hadn’t backed me 1000%.
Bottom line, there’s a kind of damned if you do, damned if you don’t dynamic in speaking out. It’s going to be rattling and shattering either way. In retrospect, not just the assault itself but encountering all the blowback through the criminal process and from bystanders clearly influenced my decision to (like Giuffre as it happens) get married rather young and quickly if just to have a personal security detail.
I’m still glad I spoke out but I would never in a billion years stand in judgment over someone who couldn’t or feel somehow superior because I know the price of it and I also know how the significant advantages I had were barely enough to keep me afloat. And, in the end, what really matters is the picture you paint with that experience which is, like CL points out, advocating for and protecting your children.
Oh my gosh, I would have killed for either of my parents to teach me what a boundary was. But then, neither of them knew what that was or just didn’t respect them, so how could they have taught me? I often wish my mom had boundaries and she would never have married my dad, because she knew what he was and still married him anyway. Or maybe at the very least, would have left him when he was arrested for assault of a woman while she was pregnant with my sibling.
But no, no boundaries, so I had no clue what to do as a 15 year old, other than to do what I was trained to do as a child, which was take abuse.
But kudos to you that you had parents that were good and taught you these things!
The distance people progress in their lifetimes isn’t measured by where they end up but relative to where they start. In that sense, I know my dad would relate to your background. He wasn’t “born on third base” in terms of adult role models. More like somewhere in hell 3,000 kilometers below home base. But that’s exactly why he made sure I got the “third base” start and why he’d also relate to how that drove you to be the precise reverse type of parent figure that you grew up with.
I have to say there’s a special, very persuasive “fire” or power or “je ne sais quoi” in the messages of people who’ve been to the gates of hell and back that us “third basers” never quite muster. It’s why some of my favorite feminists come from the most radically patriarchal, repressive countries: they know exactly what they’re fighting against and tend to blow off detractors with a certain charisma or energy that’s hard to describe. My dad could freeze idiots in their tracks with a dismissive shrug which made him a very strong public speaker. I kind of envy that ability because it would have been useful working for various activist causes but I don’t forget it comes at a very high price.
Hi Hell of a Chump:
You are not seeing yourself accurately if you think you lack fire, power or a unique and distinctive voice. You have all of that, in spades. Perhaps you don’t give speeches, but who cares when you can write with power and eloquence and in such a clear and compelling manner? You are certainly your father’s daughter in that regard.
Non-creepy hugs {{{{ }}}}
I’d admire persuasive public speakers but personally prefer working behind the scenes where being wonky and earnest are useful traits. 🙂
I’m so sorry that happened to you (((ChumpyGirlKC))). Thank God he went to prison. It sounds like you beat yourself up for not speaking up then, but you stopped the generational cycle by being there for your kids. For being the parent your parents weren’t, and that’s incredibly mighty.
Thank you, Tracy, for the kind words! I’ve never looked at it like that before, but I am super happy that you think I was mighty. Maybe it is time to let the shame and self-reproach go? I do try to remember I was a child when this all happened, even though I’ve never felt like I had an actual childhood growing up in the abusive household I did.
Thank you for sharing this story , it takes courage to stay too.and make plans on how to survive!!!!..Since I can’t talk to Virginia and praise her for her sacrifices, let me thank you for staying strong, protecting yourself and
not having your life snuffed out by these destructive people.For moving on and having children and teaching them. Not all of us, can face off to our abusers. We have a heart and feel, but they have no rules and have nothing to lose because they cannot love. But all of us can do something, even if it is just here in CN.Together I hope we can shift the narrative at least for those who are here with us. I will light a candle for all the lost survivors who gave up their lives for us to gain ours by lessons learned.
Thank you 2x! You always have such words of wisdom and encouragement that we all glean support from !
It has taken me over 40 years to be able to talk about what happened to me. I am just glad he went to prison. I don’t even remember how I found out, tbh. It was about 10 years ago that I found out but he was arrested back in the 90’s. I still check on the sex offender registry to make sure he is on there, which he still is, but will be glad when he is gone from the planet. There is no hope for a person like him. He just needs to go and the Good Lord will see to that when the time is right. I just hope and pray he doesn’t hurt another girl (he likes them in the early teen years between 13-17) before he’s gone.
Talk all you need to! We are here…
Oh no! I’ve been in the middle of a house move and I’m just learning this from your comment. This is tragic. What a brave woman and what a loss
All the very best on your packing and move. It’s awful!!!! But I hope it’s not back to Texas..haaaa though I lived in Burleson Texas for 10 years having moved there from Brooklyn NY!!! I’m praying for a garden for you or at least some spring flowering trees. Sending love and best wishes as you uproot. Maybe this administration will bring you some blessings after all!! We can hope right? Greetings to Mr CL who must feel the pain of loss more than anyone!
Did you “live” in Burleson? Or would “exist” describe it better? I speak as a person who’s existed in North Texas for most of her life.
Yes I lived in Burleson …I rather liked the much friendlier howdy folks that lived there in Texas rather than the more careful New Yorkers…so 10 years in That area..I got much kinder though …
Tracy, she didn’t have YOU and CN…😥
Thank you for this. These comments apply across the spectrum to any abuser. I do think in a weird way, living through the current administration, we are all getting a master class in the overwhelm, gaslighting, victim blaming, stonewalling, etc., common to all abusers. I hope we can come out of it with a greater understanding of these dynamics, compassion for ourselves, and compassion for others.
Yes it feels like we’re collectively experiencing gaslighting and blameshifting and moving goal posts on the daily! Virtually every hideous male figure in the current administration is a serial adulterer. As one of CN posters say nearly 100% of DV abusers are also cheaters. Interesting…
Speaking of the analogy between political abuse and interpersonal abuse, doesn’t it make perfect sense that the same corporate mainstream media that fails to warn about political dangers and minimizes corporate malfeasance is so heavily whitewashing domestic abuse through cheating apologias these days? It’s also no surprise how some of the most powerful publications in the world ganged up on Sarah Manguso and CL for daring to suggest that some of the most damaging abuse can be psychological.
Which is exactly the point that the late Dr. Evan Stark made in spearheading the movement to criminalize coercive control– because his research found that the majority of victims cited emotional and psychological coercion and abuse to be far more devastating and paralyzing than even violent assault. But I guess that, since Dr. Stark died, pseudo-progressive corporate handmaidens to power like the NY Times, New Yorker and NY Mag (which collectively referred to Stark’s work so rarely that it’s hard to find any coverage other than his obituary) hoped his research and any political allegories about abuse that might grow from his work would die with him. Because– oh noes– those theories could cast very stark allegorical light on the current “coercion and control” going on in the US and where it’s headed.
The increasing political coercion and control might presently be breaking “souls” more than “bones” but, as Stark’s research illustrated, coercive control is the greatest statistical predictor of eventual lethal violence.
We must use the manure and plant a garden. We must.
Thank you Tracy for such a compassionate and nuanced response to this letter.
As a chump of 2 X FW’s, I have to guard against the self flagellation of the big Why oh why ? What was wrong with me? What was in me to have attracted two dreadful ex-husbands when all I wanted and offered was deep, steady love.
Now a-days I don’t victim blame myself much, but every so often a glimmer of it might pop up. It happens particularly if I see happy and loving long term couples.
It feels something like a wave of foolishness that I had made two (consecutive!) such ill advised choices, when other women clearly make very good choices. A tinge of regret that I let myself down and unwittingly stymied my own happiness by marrying two sparkly turds.
Like some other writers here, I have no desire to seek a marriage type partnership again: “Been there, done that, have the t-shirt!”.
This sometimes makes me feel sad and regretful about my life choices, because I was a great wife with a lot of love to give. I think a (healthy) marriage is a lovely thing.
I think your breakdown of relevant factors is spot on and reassuring.
In each of my marriages, I never saw it coming, I assumed the very best in the FW concerned, I was a high achieving antelope and I was too gentle and non-assertive when my boundaries were being trounced. I think the latter was partly Foo issues and partly my natural disposition.
And thank you, you’re right, the key is to ask the golden question, is this relationship (situation) acceptable to me?
I agree with the letter writer too that it feels fantastic to start to apply good boundaries to all aspects of life. It feels very liberating. It’s been a ‘new way’ for me over the past several years and this approach to work, friendships and family always results in better outcomes for my well being.
Thank you for all that you do in continuing to gently support and validate us through this blog.
I’ve written before about the risk of abuse survivors ending up entrapped again by subsequent abusers– that I think it has a lot to do with the general protection racket where the justice system, supposedly “nice” people and so-called “helping professionals” aren’t supportive or protective enough towards trauma survivors which gives predators who wear the typical mask of hero and rescuer a significant edge in preying on previously traumatized people.
Personally I can even see how it affected my dating choices. After enduring intense street harassment in NYC from the time I was kid, experiencing a lot of workplace harassment early in my career and twice being subjected to workplace violence, I think I gradually began to shift from dating the meek and gentle “nerds” I’d always preferred since my tweens to slightly tougher guys– dudes who could “hold their own” if they ever got in the line of fire of violence directed at me.
I’m not even sure I wanted a “protector” or really just didn’t want to feel responsible for getting someone beaten up or killed. I was in several situations where whatever guy friend I was hanging out with was called upon to “defend my honor/safety” and, rather than finding these situations “flattering,” they always horrified me.
This created challenges in terms of dating. I felt like Goldie Locks endlessly looking for Baby Bear’s Bed– trying to find the magical combination or “recipe” of sensitivity and emotional intelligence coupled with “bare knuckle street fighter.”
At this point I think it’s really a losing proposition because that balance rarely exists. In college I found a couple candidates who were both geeky and capable of defending themselves but the latter trait came at a price as it usually does with men. Both had experienced extreme traumas in childhood that, even with all the sexual hassling I’d dealt with, were way out of my experiential pay grade. I also think those experiences left these guys more numb and callous in ways I couldn’t deal with.
Then I thought I married the right “combo”– someone “sensitive” and slightly geeky but tough enough to survive. But it turned out to be the same issue: that which doesn’t kill people can make them so scarred and fucked up that they end up dangerous.
If I had a time machine and could go back to my younger self, I’d probably just buy a gun, do some combat training and keep dating the sensitive, nerdy little sweethearts I’d always crushed on since third grade.
It’s so true HOAC, that in my instance, the first abuse perpetrated by FW1 created such a profound emotional wound (parental alienation actually which is the subject of a lot of the discussion in the blog today), that I was entirely susceptible to what FW2 appeared to ‘offer’.
I had done all the ‘right things’ to address Fw’s1 damage. Things like EMDR, counselling, re-entering a busy professional life, creative outlets, the passage of time…and yet still…
Looking back I think I should have waited longer than the two years between the complete cessation of all contact with FW1 (which could only happen when the drawn out legal proceedings finalised) and the start of the new relationship with FW 2…
Personally I think justice is the best PTSD treatment. Imagine if your first abuser had ended up in prison for fourteen years (as he might have if this happened in Scotland) for trying to coercively control you by weaponizing child custody. Think about what effect that might have had on your recovery from extreme trauma (to give perspective on how catastrophically traumatic just the mere threat of losing children is, the Supreme Court views loss of child custody as the family court equivalent of the death penalty). Also think about what kind of message criminal consequences would have sent to people around you and what kind of support they offered, not to mention what kind of message that might have sent to the next potential predator. Might the second abuser have thought better of screwing with you knowing what happened to the first?
Justice might not make all the difference but it would make a lot of difference. I think we’re still in the dark ages regarding justice for survivors of domestic abuse.
Absolutely HOAC. How a justice system handles FW abuse,
of which coercive control is a potent form, is critical.
In my Crt proceedings with FW1, the judge addressed me and said “I’ve been thinking of you/about you” (words to that effect).
We were not seeking a ruling from her by then, because the case had settled between the legal reps.
However she had read all of the materials.
I live in a jurisdiction where coercive control is just now entering the judicial space, behind Scotland though.
I think the judge was trying to convey her sympathy to me in her comment. She did this in circumstances where the law itself didn’t carry the margins for punishment/sanctions against child alienation etc.
To this day I’m glad that I was ‘seen’ by her, but it was all so traumatising that at the time I was a bit of a shell. I didn’t respond in any way. I remember looking blankly ahead of me.
If the judge had the wherewithal to say what she said, she probably also likely understood what shell shock looks like. She might even have cringed a bit if you’d made any visible gesture of gratitude because it might make her susceptible to accusations of bias.
Regarding how traumatic and coercive the threat of child removal is, remember the opening scene from The Lives of Others when a Stasi agent threatens to take away a dissident’s children and the latter cracks like a pinata? The former East German Stasi prided themselves on– unlike the Nazis– breaking “souls not bones.” They had a lot to be “proud” of since psychological torture methods proved far more effective if you simply measure the number of years that the East German Republic reigned (41 years) compared to the Third Reich (12 years). And one of the chief ways they created a society of informants necessary to maintain power for so long was through what Vladimir Nabokov called “the lever of love”– taking away loved ones without cause.
It gives some perspective to what you went through. To an innocent protective parent, it doesn’t matter if your children are taken away by men with jackboots and guns or a bogus court order. Either way you’re not really living in a democracy because there’s nothing worse short of killing those children which is always the added statistical risk when custody is given to abusers.
Anyway, using the existence of Reunification camps as a measure of freaky extremism in the US and how easy it’s been for abusers to weaponize family courts, it makes it no surprise that the US has progressed to actually “disappearing” people these days– not when the seeds of something similar have long been sown all along.
‘The Lives of Others’ is one of my favourite films HOAC. The last time I watched it I cried at the very last line in the film. It’s a beautiful cinematic piece and a classic I think.
Yes, it charts the exquisite (not in a good way) deliberate fragmentation of human bonds in order to disorientate and maintain power.
To pit human being against human being – in circumstances where the nature of the relationship would normally be a positive, bonded one, is the ultimate perversion.
State sanctioned triangulation writ large.
Orwell knew this didn’t he.
And then we have the various South American dictatorships who deployed the same methods in the 70’s and 80’s.
It must be the nation-state fuckwit playbook then.
A writer in the int law area named Christine Chinkin noted the parallels this sort of psychological tyranny exacts in both micro (domestic private family spaces) and macro contexts (crimes against humanity and state regime maintenance of power)…
Also thank you for the Christine Chinkin reference. Googling her work now…
Oh kindred spirit…
You might also love the films of Chilean writer-director Pablo Larrain, particularly his earlier films like Fuga and Postmortem which fuse political oppression with interpersonal sexual control pretty blatantly. His later films like Spencer, Jackie and El Conde carry the same themes in subtler forms but I have a special fondness for his less subtle earlier messages that dictatorship= rape.
My kids and I live most of the year in one of those former South American dictatorships and have several friends who were almost “disappeared” as young students because of something they said in class or some book they took out of the library. I never have to explain the concept of “victim blaming” to these friends because they remember how bystanders would often respond to news of violent detentions of neighbors by saying “Algo habrán hecho” or “They must have done something.”
I think it’s a very precise mirror of how too many people respond to victims of domestic abuse– by saying, “Algo habrán hecho.”
The parallels you’ve spotted are telling aren’t they. Thank you for these recommendations HOAC 😊
It’s been helpful to me when I fall into the mode of self-blame to remember that my childhood experiences primed to make the choice I did, that I was young, and that luck and chance also play a role in life. Most of all, what counts is that we had the courage to leave and the strength to pick ourselves up and get on with life. If, like the letter writer, we later perceive that we need to make more changes, we can do that, and know we can do that, having already made one hard change.
☝️Yes, this Adelante. Thank you for reminding us about the courage we’ve all shown to date 🙏. And your powerful point that courage is an innate, future resource we know we can draw on at any time – we’re all practised at bravery.
I forget that sometimes.
If a close, dear friend described my own experiences to me as theirs (or any of innumerable fuckwittish FW stunts described on this blog) – I would tell my friend that they had been very strong and brave.
It’s funny, I asked my ex-therapist if I had a sign on my forehead that said, “Abuse me” on it, once. She laughed, and I sort of did too, but I was also serious. That was at a point after D-Day that I was so very low and had realized the one person whom I had ever given trust to in my entire life, had betrayed me.
My abuse started as a child by my dad, but also my mom who looked the other way to his abuse. She died of cancer a long time ago and my dad is wasting away in assisted living with heart failure and diabetic skin sores eating him alive from the feet up. Is that Karma? Maybe. I don’t find myself wishing bad things on people, so I just don’t know. That’s not for me to deicide, but the cosmos or a higher power.
But I do know that my abusive childhood did seemingly lead me “towards” abusive men. Or maybe it was just that I learned that this was “normal” behavior and that I just needed to live with it because that is how things are, what my mom modeled for me, and that all men are like this. We just stay, take our medicine and swallow it down!
I refuse to believe all men are like this and that there are good men out there! I just have never found one. All men I have encountered in my life on some sort of personal level, have been abusive and horrible. Not sure if I have given up completely, but I certainly am gun shy, as they say.
I am going to work on myself, being happy and feeling better, and just take the wait and see approach. But the last cheater FW opened my eyes to reality at least, that’s for sure. So maybe going forward I am at least better armed!
The older I get the more I see sadly the truth in that phrase all the good ones are taken. How I wish I left FW at the first D day decades ago!
As they say, hind sight is 20/20. We don’t know what we don’t know. I also wished I had not given my best years to two FW’s! Spent 9 years with the first, almost 30 years with the second. Oh well, maybe in my next lifetime I will pair up with a good one!
Yes, I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion. I have friends who have been married 20, 30, and 40+ years to good men. At signing, my divorce attorney encouraged me to date, saying, “You have so much to offer, and there are truly good men out there.”
Well, haven’t seen that yet. I’ve had some good times with a few, but none I wanted to see beyond coffee or someone I got to know on a trip.
At our ages the non-cheating wives hang on to good even just decent to okay men! Who wants to divorce when retirement is looming? Only turds out there mostly. then as we all age the men die earlier so there are fewer and fewer of them. Plenty of good women and lots of turds
Haha. That’s a good point about only turds left and men dying earlier which reduces the pool a men. Didn’t think about it like that.
Yes, my ex and I split after he retired. I hoped that retirement would patch our struggles, but he decided that pursuing sexual adventure was his new retirement hobby. I didn’t agree to the terms of that, and we divorced.
Frankly, it was all for the best. He had been a very difficult husband with significant mental health issues and a pill addiction. I can’t imagine he’d been an easy partner, but he has money.
Funny. I’ve been wondering the same thing these past few weeks. I’m almost 3 years out from my fucked up situation and I’m as happy and comfortable being alone as I’ve ever been. I now say I’m alone but I’m not lonely. I seriously question myself now. Am I just attracted to people that have deeper problems than me? And why? I just don’t get it.
We just seem to be living in a new age where there are tons of narcissists that feel “entitled” to treat people like shit and sleep like a baby at night. The pool of good people seems to be shrinking. Not to say there are none out there, there is, it’s just harder to find them it seems. Frustrating.
Narcississm is spreading like a virus worldwide but particularly in western countries. Look at the dysfunction creates by our FW, many of them repeating their parents behaviors and also passing down the dysfunction. Especially the ones whose Chump parents who aren’t learning from CN because they’re busy with the RIC or suffering alone in shame – which is scarily the majority of chumps. Multiply this across the population and boom – exponentially more narcissists
Yep, an epidemic at the very least!
lately i’ve asked myself “is this person here to help or are they here to be right?” this helps me SO MUCH. as soon as i get a whiff of “here to be right” i get out of there. life is too short.
this has, of course, greatly shortened my friend/professional friend list but that’s okay. i have a few good friends and i’m trying to be a better friend, too. we support one another and cheer each other on.
the other day i was thinking about friendship and how it’s taken time to become a good friend. in many ways i think i’m a better friend to others since i’ve become a better friend to myself. that takes time.
Absolutely!!
In my case my “magnet” for people who treated me in a disrespectful (best case scenario) or cruel (worst) way included only one FW ex (22 year marriage). But, oh my … SO MANY shit “friends”. Same dynamic/s as described by all above, and as pointed out by Carole, extends to workplaces also.
The common thread being that for a long time, it never even occurs to us chumpy types if it’s acceptable or not. Like breathing, or sleeping, it just “is”. Until one day (a Tuesday), we realise: I do not have to accept this. I am worth being treated better.
Like you, I now have a long list of “people that I used to know (and trust, and love etc)”. And my list of real-deal friends is quite short. And I’m better than I’ve ever been.
Trauma begets trauma. I do believe many of us grew up with narcissistic parent or otherwise abusive FOO dynamics that made us prime targets for FW. The trauma can be intergenerational. FW father is a serial cheater NPD and that’s a common story here. I know a male Chump whose loving mother was horribly abused as a child therefore unable to teach sons boundaries when they married selfish narcissistic female FW. One also stayed in a bad employment situation like the OP. Those on here are mostly ones who found the strength to get OUT in spite of it all and what we learn from Tracy and CN is amazing and life saving! Knowing trauma begets trauma I know my kids will be, through no fault of their own, prime targets for narcissists in the future and so I try to teach them how to spot NPD. To try to stop the cycle. Knowledge truly is power.
I grew up in a very abusive cult-like home (and in addition, I was severely bullied at school for many years). Later on in my 20s and early 30s, I had some bad relationship experiences (the main reason why I keep reading this blog). As a consequence, I have stayed single for more than a decade.
Yet, during my career of more than 20 years, I have been bullied twice by female coworkers who were quite obviously sexually involved with some married guy in a senior position (different companies, different people!). I believe they wanted me out of the way because I was perceived as more capable, more hardworking and more well-liked than they were – and these women were able to get away with pretty much anything, it seemed. Each time, it was a devastating experience with lasting effects on my career.
It is important to note that neither woman was with the respective company at the time I joined. The second time, even the senior manager joined years after I did. This was something I had absolutely no control over. I didn’t even stay in these jobs and endure the bullying any longer than I absolutely had to. I’m not an “abuse magnet” (nobody is) – it is just that bad people are out there, they often have power and they tend to harm a lot of others.
So from ad-hoc meta analysis of the “chump” population, one of the things that we all seem to have in common is people-pleasing and a proclivity for the patience of the Buddha.
I don’t know if we necessarily attract abusive people and situations per se…I will say that we are far more likely to put up with them for far longer than other people do. For me at least…some of it is that I would prefer that people give me that level of patience and grace. And I love and cherish the people that do(especially all of you!)
So all of that said…there are definitely a lot of “work” situations that mimic all of the loveliness brought us here to the Chumpnation. Love bombing, false futuring, broken promises, getting strung along, “getting used”, and betrayal.
And we all probably had the same notions of reciprocity from employers than we did from our fuckwits.
I agree with our fearless leader-set boundaries.
Have a Mighty Monday!
Dear Carole,
Consider the possibility that the victim-blaming attitudes we’re all surrounded with and inundated with might actually have been the main “dagger through your shoe” keeping you stuck in certain situations. Even if we resist internalizing the blaming views, the fact that other people believe this shite can affect how they treat survivors, can impact policy and generally make the world seem like a more dangerous place while also doubling down on the same message that abusers universally spew at victims– that defective losers and beggars can’t be choosers and we should lower our expectations for better because we “brought this on ourselves.”
Most of what I and fellow advocates did while working for a domestic abuse advocacy network was to disabuse survivors of all the victim blaming myths and bullshit they’d had shoved down their throats by bystanders, incompetent so-called helping professionals and even in state-funded shelters which, at the time, mostly subscribed to the moldy, blamey old “codependency” theory of domestic abuse, specifically, the long-debunked “psychological deficiency” theory of battered women.
When I say “disabuse” I mean it very literally. We got a lot of refugees from shitty therapists and misdirected state shelter professionals who seemed to be finishing abusers’ campaigns to destroy these survivors’ self esteem and hope, mostly by falsely holding victims “partly responsible” for their own plights. Those moldy old blaming theories in psychology were probably the single biggest obstacle to escaping abuse, recovering from it, getting meaningful support and accessing needed resources for most survivors which is why victim-blaming clinical approaches have been cited for causing what is called the “second injury” of domestic abuse for generations.
But since those views were still disastrously prevalent twenty years ago and there weren’t enough mental health professionals working from the more cutting edge, non-blaming perspective, we encouraged survivors to become the “experts of their own situations” and to go to the clinical “horses’ mouths” to read academic material debunking the blaming theories.
One network consultant had doubts about whether victims would be able to understand academic and clinical material but instead we found that survivors in the throes of struggling to survive can suddenly develop brilliant accelerated learning curves. Even people with no more than high school level educations had no problem at all devouring this material, particularly the chapter on DV by coercive control expert and veteran advocate, the late Dr. Evan Stark and his wife and fellow researcher Ann Flitcraft in Frank Ochberg’s Post-Traumatic Stress Therapy and the Victims of Violent Crime.
Anyone interested in reading the final word on “victimology” should read that chapter since Stark and Flitcraft– through statistics, research and clear writing– basically Ginsu and bury the old blaming bs and then tramp down the dirt and pour cement on it.
Speaking of the term “victimology,” Google’s idiotic (and sometimes politically suspect) AI feature says that victimology is either a) the study of crime and the psychological effects of being victimized or b) an attitude that perpetuates viewing oneself as a victim.
The second definition is just gross misuse of the term probably dredged up from psychobabble blogs or the manosphere. Though credentialed social scientists and helping professionals who study, treat or opine about factors related to victimization can obviously sometimes still subscribe to antiquated blaming forms of “victimology” and argue that victims draw abuse to themselves on Voodoo tractor beams, that doesn’t make their views or any dusty old science they base views on currently valid. Yet, as CL explains, the world is filled with shitheads and abusers whose MOs revolve around and are entirely dependent in the idea that victims “had it coming” so there’s always a market for that blamey junk science and there are always going to be shills selling it.
For example, I think it’s pretty clear RIC practitioners and so-called sex addiction specialists are simply dusting off the usual moldering concepts on victimology from the bad old days of domestic violence research and policy and “repurposing” these garbage theories to exonerate sexual abusers by splitting blame with victims. The practice is akin to psychiatric dumpster diving but hey, why let profitable bullshit go to waste when creeps all over the planet will still avidly promote it in the media and pay therapists who spew it?
You can even find professional mentors from the stinking “blame school” in common among some of today’s most prominent victim blamers in the media and policy these days. But what this illustrates is how the blaming theories aren’t just toxic to individual victims in a therapeutic sense but literally dangerous in a policy sense. I’ll just paraphrase my comment from CL’s post about so-called Reunification camps from a few weeks ago:
One of the primary influences behind many of the more toxic and sexist core precepts of the “Reconciliation Industrial Complex” as well as the “Parental Alienation Industrial Complex” appears to be the late psychotherapist Salvador Minuchin.
If that doesn’t ring a bell, Minuchin, who died in 2017, is credited as the “pioneer” of structural family therapy which has been repeatedly criticized for promoting and normalizing traditional gender based roles and structures within families at the expense of women and nonbinary individuals. In other words, Minuchin’s influence might have something to do with the frequently reported misogynistic bent of family therapy.
So what that has to do with blaming chumps and threatening their custody due to parental alienation charges? Everything apparently. Here’s an excerpt of a study that heavily cites Minuchin regarding how to approach chumped partners in situations involving adultery and child custody (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284068213_A_Family_Affair_Examining_the_Impact_of_Parental_Infidelity_on_Children_Using_a_Structural_Family_Therapy_Framework)
… Once parental infidelity is discovered in the family, triangulation may occur with the involvement of the children (Afifi, 2003). This may lead to one parent intentionally or unintentionally encouraging their children to form cross-generational alliances with them against the other parent (Minuchin, 1974).
How’s that for a junk science nexus? But it just keeps getting better. The way I discovered this was by digging into the history and training of one of the key figures in the whole “parental alienation industrial complex”– Susan Gottleib, founder of the infamous Turning Points for Families (featured in the harrowing Pro Publica story. https://www.propublica.org/article/family-reunification-camps-kids-allege-more-abuse)– is connected to Esther Perel through their mutual “trainer” and “mentor,” Salvador Minuchin, who, before he died, wrote a recommendation for Gottleib’s crusade and book on parental alienation syndrome:
“With your book, you’ve created a niche for PAS in family therapy. Bravo! Congratulations!” (4/16/12)
It might also be important to note that Minuchin is originally from Argentina, one of the countries that, aside from France, is still disturbingly influenced by the theories of Jacques Lecan, the controversial psychotherapist whose work influenced the Spanish dictatorship under Franco and then the Argentine Junta under Vidella, both of which wove Lacan’s theories of the “psychopathic influence of mothers on children” and resulting “feminization of culture” into political justifications for mass removal and displacement of children from political opponents (and sometimes the murders of their mothers). I’m not saying Minuchin supported the Argentine reign of terror in the same way Jacques Lacan buddied up to the Franco regime but I’m saying that his view of women and mothers has some interesting overlaps with Lacan and both dictatorships.
It’s also worth noting that Minuchin had appeared on clinical boards and discussion panels with disgraced child psychologist Bruno Bettelheim, the coiner of the term “parentectomy” who believed– like Lacan– that autism is caused by toxic mothers, making child removal a first line of treatment (a practice that still continues in France). But this isn’t the main controversy that trails the career of Bettelheim. Instead it’s the fact that he fabricated stories of having been imprisoned in Auschwitz and furthermore allegedly raped some of the children he removed from supposedly “toxic mothers.”
End of cut and paste.
Anyway, the point is that– again– blaming views in “victimology” aren’t merely bad for victims themselves but can affect policies and social attitudes that represent yet more bars on the cage keeping many effectively entrapped or making the aftermath of abuse so punishing that survivors have difficulty recovering. Furthermore, any survivor who disagrees with those views and attempts to cast them off by refusing to “take partial responsibility” for having been abused may find themselves being castigated for “playing the victim” by negative bystanders or lousy helping professionals. In that sense, the victim blaming view seems to be some kind of existential cult that, sort of like Scientology, is as difficult to escape as leaving an abusive partner. At the very least, the whole thing creates a kind of hope-killing “out of the frying pan, into the fire” effect where victims are either blamed by abusers or blamed again by those purporting to help them.
But the important thing to remember is that the only people who “play” at being victims are perpetrators which is what the entire RIC and CSAT and “Parental Alienation” industries are about: pretending abusers are victims to their own victims.
Meanwhile actual victims hate being victims, never signed up for it and, furthermore, face endless disparagement for having ever been victimized. But that’s why it’s critical for all genuine survivors to push back. To quote Gisele Pelicot, “It’s not for us to have the shame [and blame]– it’s for them.”
Thank you for your debunking of the victim blaming that goes on in marital and family therapy. I can’t tell you how those concepts of “seeking out” a repeat of abuse or “co-dependency” have deviled me.
Also: Not to take away from your analysis but do you maybe mean Linda (not Susan) Gottleib?
You’re right– it’s Linda. Maybe I subconsciously swapped the name because Linda means “beautiful” and Gottlieb basically looks like the end stage of the Dorian Gray portrait? 😮
Speaking of swapping, doesn’t it seem pretty telling when therapists borrow pathological traits typical of most if not all domestic abusers and other violent serial criminals such as “reenactment compulsion” and then slap these diagnostic assumptions on victims? It’s like these victim-blaming therapists aren’t just removing portions of guilt from abusers and apportioning this out to victims and then borrowing innocence from victims to give to abusers but actually cross-grafting very specific MOs and psychological traits between the two. So perpetrators’ behavior is justified and coddled on the basis that they’re, uh, frightened and intimidated little woodland creatures and victims are replaying destructive family of origin patterns.
It’s so bogus because, while there’s plenty of evidence that perpetrators overwhelmingly come from dysfunctional horror show backgrounds which they tend to replay over and over but often with victim/perp roles reversed, there’s no evidence that victims as a whole statistically differ from the rest of the population in any way.
There was never any “science” behind the assumption that victims are “reenacting” yet certain clinical factions still cling to the notion because there’s a market for splitting blame. A lot are simply shills and clinical whores or, as my daughter calls them, “STEMbos.” But people like Perel and Gottlieb seem more driven, invested and “sincere” (ick) so I’m curious about the fact that both chose this epic misogynistic douchebag Minuchin as their “mentor.”
Familiar creepy daddy figure anyone? But here’s the thing: The line between hybristophiliacs– people who are actually attracted to liars, cheats, abusers, felons, etc.– and normal people who get victimized and entrapped by abusers also can’t be blurred because hybristophiliacs typically are not merely victims but often act as accessories and apprentices to dangerous individuals. In other words, Perel and Gottlieb– like Ghislaine Maxwell– are abusive personalities who are drawn to other abusers– often bigger, higher ranking abusers.
This might suggest that, if abuse were a kind of organizational structure, it would be very hierarchical and authoritarian, all about pecking order and power with members kissing up and slapping down, dishing out shit to some and eating it from others.
Anyway, I think that might be something that gets overlooked in research on abusive personalities– that they often run into interpersonal problems and even have statistically lower mortality because they’re drawn to their own level and, even as they victimize, quite frequently run into bigger sharks and get victimized. In other words, they don’t only “reenact” with roles reversed but sometimes reenact the same role they had in childhood: victim.
I suspect that’s part of what is getting clinically projected and falsely generalized onto average genuine victims. Not only is every accusation from a narcissist a confession but it appears every diagnosis is as well.
HOAC I always learn so much from your posts. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for sticking around to help us fellow chumps new to this!
Thanks for the warm words and I’m glad if any of this is helpful though I think it’s unfortunate that it’s still as under-represented as it ever was.
Back in the day, I think my fellow advocates and I believed the anti-victim blaming movement in victimology largely spearheaded by Stark and Flitcraft would change everything for ever and ever. O frabjous day!
But in retrospect that was a pretty naive Utopian delusion because human nature is static and changes so gradually (and not necessarily for the better) that it’s hardly going to make a difference in our own lifetimes or even the next 30 millennia. There will always be abusers who gravitate to positions of authority who try to control every narrative about abuse, especially in the arenas that hold the most power and influence these days– science and law. And those fuckers seem to have more tireless energy to do this than average people because they’re motivated by a kind of dark and ugly version of humanitarian activism or evangelism: they want to make the world as safe and cozy as possible for abusers and as dangerous and uncomfortable as possible for victims who speak out.
That fight against that “cult” will never end, the rock will always roll back down the hill and it’s up to every generation to keep shoving it back up over and over again. Anyway, that’s sadly why all the “revolutionary” science we were so excited about two decades ago is still just as relevant and embattled as it ever was. So we all have to be “evangelists” in that sense to correct the situation. Go forth and spread the word of St. Stark lol.
There is alot of BS to deal with in life. As the monks say life is suffering. I get anxious anyways in dealing with people, and so many are difficult. I realized I am desensitized to difficult people. I take a deep breath, push down my anxiety and deal with whoever or whatever the situation is. I realized in doing this my gut instincts are not as good. Im used to ignoring my gut. Dont have a choice. The only option would be becoming a hermit. But unfortunately we live in the world and have to deal with people. So many are cracra. We just have to be discerning. I now slow burn people. Have to get to know people slowly over a long period of time, but once your in your in. Helps weed out love bombing. And I agree us chumps are more agreeable than the average person, we just tolerate more.
I also want to point out FW and abusers tend to feel most comfortable around others of the same ilk. Our formerly close couple friends pretended to support me and the children and then turned into flying monkeys. Reeling from so much betrayal was difficult but I fortunately kept a lot of other friendships and eventually realized that it wasn’t that I was a pitiable abuse magnet. It was because FW avoided or sabotaged friendships with normal couples. The reason we got close to toxic couple was in fact because the H is likely a FW himself and an abuser for sure and the W an inveterate gossip with no boundaries who enjoyed the male attention from FW. So FW was fine spending a lot of time with said toxic duo because he was comfortable with like minded people
Everybody else has already said it best but I wanted to add: You’re not an idiot for taking a bad job. You saw the red flags going in and did it anyway because you needed to eat. We’ve all done it. At the end of the day, you still came out ahead and that’s what matters.
A few years ago, I took a horrible job. There were a few red flags, it paid peanuts, and I’d have to move across the country. I ran the calculations in my head and decided even if I had to leave in a year or two, I’d still come out ahead. Plus I had nothing else going for me. Like you, I was desperate.
Guess what? That job turned out to be worse than I thought. They broke every single promise they made to me when I signed on. Management was horrible and ran on nepotism and misogyny, and the company operated like a frathouse. Every day was a shit show.
After three years, I parlayed that experience into a much better job at another company. Soon after, my ex-employer went bankrupt and folded. I’m told there was a lot of drama, but thankfully I wasn’t around for it.
It was a tough experience, but I still came out ahead professionally and financially, and I’m glad I did it. I’m also thankful it’s over.
My point is, we all have to make these calculations sometimes, and at the end of the day bills need to get paid. You didn’t make a mistake or walk in blind here, sounds like you actually have a good head on your shoulders and see things quite clearly, and made a judgment call. That’s okay. Just like it’s okay you’re now deciding the job’s outlived its usefulness and you’re now better served elsewhere.