How Do I Navigate the Holidays with Toxic Family?
She wants to know how to navigate the holidays with toxic family members. She just learned her brother-in-law has a disturbing double life and she doesn’t want him in her home.
***
Dear Chump Lady,
I belong to a close extended family. Like many families, we struggle to talk productively about politics these days. Like many families, we’ve had our struggles and griefs over the decades, along with wonderful times together. I love my family SO much. I am so grateful for them.
Through good times and bad, my sister has been a constant in my life.
She has walked a harder road than mine, one that includes multiple forms and incidents of abuse. She has struggled at times. But she is incredibly strong, smart, determined, hilarious, kind, and loving. She is the rock of her family, who walked into the unknown as a single mom with two small children to leave an abusive first husband who put them thousands of dollars in debt using phone-sex lines.
A few years later, she met and married a man who adopted her kids, and they had more kids together. Despite him not being my cup of tea, I recognized his good qualities and tried my best to be there for and support my sister and her kids. They’ve been married for almost 25 years. All the kids are grown and my sister is a grandma. Despite some decidedly rocky patches over the years, and despite the husband having roughly the personality of a lump of sodden cardboard (if that cardboard had anger issues and a penchant for awkward jokes), I thought they were a loving family, working towards better.
I knew nothing, as it turns out.
A month ago, my sister told me her husband has been addicted to pornography for the entirety of their marriage (before that, actually). And that she had just
- a) installed secret cameras in their house and his work-from home office;
- b) caught him on those cameras with a secret iPad; and
- c) observed him spending fully half of his work day talking live to cam girls while masturbating, writing vile things on Reddit forums, and having live sessions with sex workers in which he wore a black thong and kind of pranced around the room. (“Kind of” is doing a LOT of heavy lifting here).
There is also significant and growing evidence of financial abuse. Through various shenanigans and idiocies, he has added more than $100,000 of debt to their lives.
When she told me about this last month, my sister was resolute that she was leaving her husband.
She wanted him out immediately, wanted a legal separation, said she didn’t even like him as a person, said they had lived separate lives for years. He had been caught lying to her about porn use repeatedly over the years and she was just tired of living with the lies. She also said she had found a sort of sexual “go bag” in his travel kit. She got a counselor who seems pretty kick-butt (tells my sis that BIL is unlikely to change and the safest and most peaceful long-term option is divorce) and started looking for a lawyer. With her permission, I told my husband and grown kids what was happening so they could also support my sister and her kids.
BIL didn’t move out or respect her boundaries.
He immediately began love-bombing her, sending chocolates (she doesn’t eat candy) and acting soooooo sad and sorry. He let their son carry his sad-sausage water. Half of their kids think she should leave him, but the other half think she should give him another chance.
After what I consider some pretty egregious boundary-trampling by BIL and the reconciliation-pushing kids, plus a spiritual experience in which Sis felt prompted to work on herself so that she’d be ready for whatever happened with her marriage (and maybe-definitely some growing fears about dying alone and poor), she’s gone kinda squishy.
For this and financial reasons, she’s not making him move out — they’re separated but living together. She now talks about how hard he’s “trying” and how much he and some of her kids want them to stay together. I recognize my powerlessness here and, despite feeling something close to despair over the current trend, am trying to be there for her while respecting her right to make her own decisions.
But the holidays are about to begin. What do I do if he shows up for Thanksgiving?
What do I do about my niece advocating for him to be Santa at our upcoming extended-extended family Christmas party? I feel nothing but revulsion for this man and what he’s done to my sister.
How do I support the siblings who want them to divorce, and who are hurting pretty badly right now, while trying to understand why the reconciliation-pushing siblings are seemingly happy to see their mom set her life and peace on fire for the sake of an intact family?
Can I help my kids navigate their own disgust and alarm over the choices of some of their cousins and potentially having to see this jerk again?
How in the holy hell do we sit down and eat turkey with an abuser? The best I’ve been able to get to in terms of headspace is planning to treat him like a new boyfriend of my sister, one I don’t know but have heard some pretty awful things about. But that doesn’t seem very helpful to anyone. I’m at a loss.
So Sorry for My Sister
***
Dear So Sorry for My Sister,
Be authentic.
Which is more than I can say for your sinister brother-in-law with his secret sexual dungeon. You’re repulsed by this guy, you don’t agree with your sister’s decision to consider reconciliation, but you do love her. Even if she’s toking hard on the hopium and blaming herself at “spiritual retreats.” All you control in this fucktangle of family dysfunction is yourself.
If he’s really a unicorn and oh so sorry, he’ll understand the consequences of his actions, right? He won’t expect a warm reception or rug-sweeping, right? Or demand you all eat a buffet of shit sandwiches so he doesn’t experience any discomfort, RIGHT?
But of course that’s not happening. Because he doesn’t respect anyone’s boundaries and still operates out of entitlement. ASSUMING reconciliation and a place at the family table is MORE ENTITLEMENT. Of course you’re not okay with that! And it’s the number one sign this relationship is doomed. Even though it might endure.
But Tracy! If she’s mean to the brother-in-law it will drive them together! Everyone must tiptoe around this delicate reconciliation!
Baloney.
Have the Epstein files taught us nothing? The way you deal with deviant FWs is consequences, not enabling.
Are you hosting this family dinner? Your house, your rules. You’re allowed to not invite your brother-in-law. And I hope this goes without saying, but you’re also entitled to your feelings about how he’s treating your sister. What do you think is more effective to make your sister understand she’s in an abusive relationship? Pretending like it’s not abusive, or acting like it is?
“He’s not welcome here” is the truth. You know too much.
Supporting your sister does NOT mean supporting her reconciliation.
I would practice scripts to that effect. “Sis, this information about Derwin Dickdribble is too disturbing for me to pretend I’m okay. You and the kids are welcome. Please respect my boundaries that I cannot be present with Derwin at Thanksgiving.”
She might be angry with you. But, that’s the thing with boundaries, you have to let go of how they’re received. She might also feel relieved. Now you’re the baddy and she can enjoy the holidays with her family minus the FW.
He let their son carry his sad-sausage water. Half of their kids think she should leave him, but the other half think she should give him another chance.
Gross. That’s so emotionally incestuous to let the son do the FW’s wooing. What a horrible thing to model to a young man. Abuse your wife, but win her back with a box of chocolates. Her worth is equivalent to a dozen nut clusters.
Staying together for the kids is the oldest chump excuse for staying with a cheater. This isn’t the kids’ business. She left one abuser, she can leave another. Of course, not wanting to be a two-time loser at life partners is also a fear that keeps chumps with FWs. But I’d point out to your sister that divorce isn’t a disease. Being single isn’t less than. In fact, it’s far more peaceful and financially stable than shackling yourself to a guy with a hooker habit.
If you must see him, why hide your disgust?
Can I help my kids navigate their own disgust and alarm over the choices of some of their cousins and potentially having to see this jerk again?
Abusers and bad actors of all kinds weaponize civility. They make everyone else wear the discomfort rather than experience any of it themselves. They take hostages. Well, we wouldn’t want to upset Cindy by making her father feel unwelcome.
Cindy, you’re not responsible for your father being a FW.
I’d tell your kids to behave toward their pervy uncle with cold, hard no contact, and failing that, cool indifference. If he wants better treatment from everyone, he’d have to EARN that, over YEARS, beginning with paying your sister back the money he stole from their marital assets and treating her with kindness and respect. (I see no signs of that, from what you’ve written.) And even THEN it’s everyone’s else CHOICE to cut him out because they GET TO HAVE THEIR OWN FEELINGS. See how that works?
No one is seeking retribution, or branding him with a burning L on his forehead. They’re simply refusing to behave inauthentically about his deception.
What do I do about my niece advocating for him to be Santa at our upcoming extended-extended family Christmas party?
“Uncle Bob has that job.” Or we’re taking turns. Divert, distract, change the subject. Who wears the Santa hat isn’t a life-or-death issue.
Pass the gravy.
How in the holy hell do we sit down and eat turkey with an abuser?
Don’t. Aren’t they SEPARATED but living together? Why is he at the holidays at all?
But if he does show up, I give you permission to lean into that awkwardness. “So Derwin, learn any good dance moves? How about that Frederick’s of Hollywood catalog? Reviewed any good escorts lately?”
He won’t show up if there’s no reward for showing up. You control the rewards. Happy holidays.
I read this with interest as I uncovered a very similar double life of my FW. And I’m having to go the slow legal route to get him out of the house (because, entitlement) so he will be here for Xmas and I need to figure out how to handle that with our young son.
I’d add to Tracy’s points on why to hold your boundary and say no, to him joining the family Christmas. At some point your sister will wake up (she’s done it before). And who will she trust to help her? The friends and family that knowingly went along with the play-pretend for an easier life? Or the one who held that boundary because you KNEW she deserved better and loved her enough to say so kindly and firmly?
Its clear from your letter that you and your sister have a bond that goes very deep. She will feel your love on that level, even if on the surface it may play out differently. Trust that. I suspect on a lot of levels, its all we really have.
My grandmother had 14 children. She had no way to escape my creepy, FW grandfather. He had an AP named Ruby he would hook up with after bowling in a league twice a week. My mother always forced us to go to my grandparents’ house because she felt sorry for her mother. Most of the kids got the hell away from their abusive FW father as soon as they could. My mother would sit there and trash talk them for refusing to come visit and be around. My mother considered herself a saint for being there for my grandmother. We didn’t just visit for holidays. We went there EVERY NIGHT after school and were there until after the weather report on the 10:00 news.
I remember nothing but misery at having to avoid my skeezy FW grandfather. My own mother was widowed and we had no means to take my grandmother in. I felt sorry for her but I also remember at birthdays and holidays, FW grandfather wanting me to sit in his lap to pose for photos and give him a kiss and I thought he was gross. Pedo? Who knows. Maybe. My stomach churned at the thought of him though I was not directly abused. My mother and her sisters who visited stuck together to not be left alone with him. He raped my oldest aunt when she was a teenager. My mother chalked it up to my oldest aunt wearing makeup and being too sexy. So gross.
Don’t have a FW at your holiday table or at your house EVER. If tongues will wag that you took a stand, LET THEM. My mother has been so wrong over the years in so many ways that I barely have contact with her now. People who don’t understand boundaries (she doesn’t) will never get it. If you let a FW attend, everyone will regret it and wish you had put your foot down. If he has kids who don’t like the consequences of their FW father’s actions, maybe they should think about that. Maybe they should get therapy to sort that out. I wish my mother would have brought grandma to our house on occasion instead of obligating us to go. When I think back on those years, I don’t get what she was so afraid of. I guess being the gossip she is, she thought she was earning a star in heaven for being there. But her kids suffered. Don’t expose the next generation to a FW. Get a backbone and just say no. I hope the sister DTMFA.
I’m sorry you had to go through that as kids. Why couldn’t mom bring grandma out of that shitshow (even if just for extended visits) instead of you into it, indeed. It sounds like she ate the shit sandwich her mother was forced to eat and projected her own anger and grief onto other people who didn’t or wouldn’t, and tried to rope you into it as well. Like her visiting with them at their house was some sort of attempt at maintaining the lie that all was fine and normal. This kind of stuff is indigestible though and will continue to rip through everyone involved. You offer very sage advice – those involved in cheater apologism are only denying the reality and propagating the damage.
I absolutely hate being expected to “play nicely” to keep someone else’s peace …. what CL terms “Weaponised Civility” is a manipulation tactic used by abusers to avoid being held to account and facing consequences.
So, to answer the question “How in the holy hell do we sit down and eat turkey with an abuser?” the answer is simply “You don’t.”
LFTT
Exactly. I am dealing with this right now. I have a no hostile contact order against klootzak. Currently arranging an event to be held in a private space since he is allowed to share public space with me but just cannot be “hostile.” I don’t want him around at all. That’s just crazy.
Wait, so the court can admit he’s “hostile” at times– enough to put it in writing that he shouldn’t be– but yet the court can’t give you a protective order?
The family law system seems to be run by the exact types of effed-up, boundary-impaired relatives being discussed. It makes it doubtful that the court will be in agreement with you regarding what constitutes “hostile,” like “He was only repeatedly stabbing melon balls with a cocktail spear while staring right at you with a malevolent leer? He wasn’t wielding a Bowie knife, so how is that hostile?”
Because we share the child he is allowed to have contact. This is because he damaged my vehicle. He keyed it and I caught him on video. So he did not physically leave a mark on me but as I feared he was escalating, the court granted a no hostile contact order. Whatever action he does, I simply write a letter to a judge with a copy to his attorney and if she agrees he has crossed the line, she will move straight to conviction on the criminal charge for the property damage to my vehicle. If he behaves for the duration of the order, she will consider expunging the criminal charge from his record.
I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this Roman circus. 🙁
For what it’s worth, the Substacks of Drs. Emma Katz and Elizabeth Dalgarno might provide a bit of consensus on the insanity you’re having to endure because the justice system is still mired in this absurd idea that abusive mates can be “good parents.”
In any case, this is why I think there needs to be more research on long term outcomes related to specific “subviolent” forms of domestic abuse to create a kind of mathematical algorithm predicting how often patterns of behaviors or gestures will escalate to not just violence but also a range of deleterious outcomes for victims and their children.
Because we’re in an era where laws and policies are often based on science, I think hard statistics and math are what it’s going to take to drag justice related to family abuse out of the dark ages where rulings are not left up to the biased “discretion” (or cowardice about going against the prevailing grain) of legal authorities.
From what I understand, this is sort of how coercive control was ultimately criminalized in the UK in spite of resistance from “dah patriarchy”: because the bulk of research ended up showing that the history of coercive control– not necessarily a history of violent assault– was the single best risk assessment for eventual domestic murder and, furthermore, the statistical risk was shockingly high.
Drs. Katz and Dalgarno are both based in the UK and report that there are still serious problems with enforcement of criminal statutes against CC. The fight continues to make the language of these laws more surgical to get rid of discretionary loopholes or prevent the laws from being jujitsued against victims. But at least the dial moved a bit in the UK due to collective efforts by advocates.
Ulg, that’s awful and sadly common.
Have a friend who was in a similar position, she set up cameras everywhere. Dash cams for front and back of car, ring doorbell, even kept her phone on a top shirt pocket with a remote she could click in a pant pocket to start recording.
Eventually he saw a social media post that implied she was on a date, and she got another freakout. But it was a long haul of documentation, re-documentation, him being normalish for a few years, and the whole process started over again. And she’ll have to go back to court again to keep the Protection Order active.
I wish you all the best and life’s good things while going through it.
Be patient and play the long game. It takes an average of seven attempts to leave an abuser. Each time gets harder as more and more people loose patience. Especially for a victim who lives with him and he has 10+ years or practice at manipulating her and the kids.
Biggest things I’ve found? Make time with just you and her. Do fun things that have nothing to do with him. Set boundaries with him and talk about him. If it’s been an hour of spiraling about him, tell her “You know how I feel about him. Why don’t we take a break from his drama and focus on a spa day/plan a day trip to try brunch at this fancy place in NewCity/ work together on Granddaughter’s Halloween costume/a quilt for her big girl bed?” Or whatever.
Give her space to remember who she is without him. All the better if you can get her involved in some women’s spaces, a hobby group, support group, art club, book club etc. A place with supportive folks who also don’t excuse him. Especially if there’s some activity she loved as a kid. Dance? Bike rides? Gardening? A refuge where she’s not “an abuse victim” but “Sister who is smart, kind and made a beautiful scarf.” It may seem counterintuitive, but a window in what life can be after him can be much more helpful than advice on what to do about him.
Get good at saying “What do you think you’ll do about that?” And “What would meaningful change even look like for him?” And being patient. Know she’ll waver sometimes. Know she may go back and forth. Know she may want you to pretend like it’s not happening and never happened.
Read “Why does he do that?”, send her the book/PDF and Chump Lady’s blog.
Find what balance of not letting it go but also keeping that lifeline out for her is sustainable for you.
Talk to your older kids about abuse, about patterns in unhealthy relationships. Recommend things they can say to their cousins like “Even though we’re older, your Dad shouldn’t be asking that of you. Let Aunt figure out their relationship themselves.” Or “I can recommend a councilor you can talk to about this. It’s stressful and scary when family changes. But even if she gives him another chance it won’t be like it was. You can’t unknow things.”
It’s hard OP, and you get to decide who sits at your table, always.
This is beautiful. If you can help someone remember who they are without this terrible weight around their neck, you can help them see that there is something waiting for them on the other side. In the moment, in our panic, any sort of future beyond this can be so hard to picture that we remain paralyzed in our fear.
This. Very well said.
Thank you, I’ve been through it and helped friends through it at many points in my life.
It’s easy to end up having this “debate” with the victim over the abuser, trying to help them get free. It’s frustrating when they go back/waver.
But that can put them in the same mindset of “I can’t do it/I’m wrong” and then they go back and quietly stop reaching out over shame.
Knowing you ultimately need to leave, and being emotionally, logistically, and ready to leave can be very different things. If I could go back in time and get myself out sooner, I would! But I also know past me had my trust in myself blown to bits. Waffling, self blame, and skien untangling still happened even if everyone plus my inner self said “Just leave already!”. Feeling bonded to someone even if you don’t love or trust them anymore is a thing. It’s hard to watch, and also hard to experience because others can’t see the invisible gravity that kept you there.
Sometimes hearing/thinking “I don’t have to leave today, but just in case I do I can make one phone call to a lawyer/pack one box he won’t notice” one day at a time until I was fully ready and had the cat in the back if the Subaru and drove like hell to my new Apartment.
Having an activity that made me feel capable, fun, and where I could be myself and not “Brenda with the porn addicted, broke husband who guilt tripped her into threesome” was a lifeline. Just being able to be normal and not the family project/sad sack gave me the strength to stand up for myself.
Also people saying things like “If he does change after you leave, it only shows that leaving was the right choice. Keep going and you can always decide to reconnect later if he means it and follows through. He won’t change if you go back to the status quo now.” And once out, realizing even if he did magically change I didn’t want that life ever again.
It’s hard OP, but being in her corner gives her a good chance.
This resonates so hard with me.
Something I would add is that for me, I was afraid of him. And that made leaving both imminently neccessary, but also terrifying.
He initially would say things like “I am not getting a divorce”. To be clear, he wanted the AP, not me. He wasn’t trying to reconcile. He had just seen me capitulate to his wants for so long that I think he truly believed that if he insisted enough, he could have his romantic life with the AP and have me as a platonic appliance, frozen in place, where splitting of assets, less time with the kids, an end to image managenent wouldn’t be an ugly, messy factor.
I know it sounds insane. But 1. FWs aren’t known for their sane ideas and 2. I really had become such a meek shell that he had a better than 50/50 shot at actually getting exactly what he wanted there. The Universe had other ideas, and while I have kids and hence, am not 100% free from him yet, I am as close to it as I can get, and that day will come.
But in early days, he was saying “I won’t get a divorce” and while I logically in my mind understood that he was getting one whether he wanted one or not, I still lived with him and was afraid to start the process while he was there. There was this real fear of how it would be to be under the same roof as him if I said “well you HAVE to get a divorce”.
That fear was so incredibly disabling. I had to get therapy to get past it. Therapy helped big time. Eight months after I started, he was out. Had I not gone, he might still be here. Seriously. I think the only thing that would have gotten him out was if an AP had a niver place for him to go to.
Thank god for my friends and family that stuck by me during that time as it must have been so incredibly frustrating for them. The urge to just say “tell him to get the #$% out and be done with it” must have been huge. I was just paralyzed with fear.
All that to say this quote–> “ What do you think is more effective to make your sister understand she’s in an abusive relationship? Pretending like it’s not abusive, or acting like it is?” This is everything. My support system did not waiver in their conviction that this was abuse, and they told me constantly and it helped me focus on that and stop trying to untangle the skein. The “whys” hardly mattered, I just needed to get out of that abusive place.
So Sorry, you could position this as everyone needing a holiday free from him and his drama. A hard no, that he does not represent the spirit of Santa after wronging his family. (Theft of marital assets is theft of family assets.) That they are divorcing and therefore he is no longer part of your extended family. That he is a gross person with gross habits who does not belong in your family circle.
That sexual go bag in his travel kit suggests that he’s having sex with others, not just masturbating to online connections. She’s only caught what she can find him doing at home, not when he’s away. There’s always more than you know.
This is not a person you want to associate with, or who you want associating with your children.
Expect him to insist that sis and her kids can’t go if he’s not welcome. Remind her that she can tell them all that this is what divorce means.
I someone else is hosting, show them this.
If they insist on including him, you can ice him out. Just stare and refuse to engage. Or refuse to even look at him.
So Sorry, you’re being proactive to think ahead for her and for your own comfort level. Your sister and her kids are lucky to have you.
“What do I do about my niece advocating for him to be Santa at our upcoming extended-extended family Christmas party?”
WTF?!? Total record scratch there. Is the niece nuts!? Talk about spackle. “Look ever’body! Dad’s not a villain at all. Santa is good and wholesome and wouldn’t hurt a fly!” Wowee. That’s some grade-A bullhockey right there. “My childhood is still innocent, y’all! More reindeer! C’mon!”
Absolutely hard no on letting him play Santa! He should not be within 100 yards of a female child! How anyone who knows about his activities with women (and the way he therefore things about them!) could suggest this boggles the mind. I read Jennifer Weiner’s op-ed in the NYT this morning, which says we should be focusing on Epstein’s victims and not on his high-profile friends, and she quoted Epstein as thinking women are just walking vaginas. Sex creeps consider women (and girls) things–and they should not be allowed access to, and certainly not the role of Santa Clause–in any family (or indeed social) gathering.
Yuup, sounds sad but predictable to me.
The kids are often used to Mom taking on the burden of keeping things normal. Even younger adults can have some magical thinking of “If Dad is Santa and remembers how much he loves us/gets accepted by the family, things may go back to normal or better!” running in the background.
They want to keep an image of home just like it was when they left in stasis while starting new lives. It still can be hard to realize that “home” doesn’t exist anymore.
They also don’t have to live with him anymore! So, it’s half-fledged thinking with some primal feelings. But it doesn’t mean OP’s sister should suffer to maintain it. The stability is already over no matter what she does.
Back in September, I refused to meet a very good friend’s FW boyfriend.
This friend had cried to me about his (year-long) cheating and also had mentioned suicide several times. With a lot of support, she broke it off. She then came to my town for a visit, made plans to meet me on a specific day, and then nonchalantly said she’d be bringing him to that meeting. I absolutely noped out.
“I cannot sit there and pretend that what happened didn’t happen.” That’s what I told her.
It’s the pretending that is toxic. I was expected to shove everything under the carpet and absorb all the discomfort in the situation, while the two of them performed a charade. Absolutely NO. She then refused to meet me at all during her visit.
Spackle is a powerful fixative.
Everything Tracy said. I saw an Instagram reel yesterday about what abusive men said in a group (of men) the BENEFITS of abusing their partners. (Lisa Sonni _stronger_than_before_coach
Abusive know exactly what they’re doing)
Control, using the kids to keep her from leaving, using the woman as a servant – cook – nanny – bangmaid. Power, control, and dominance.
It’d make your blood run cold but the sister should watch that reel and hopefully recognize herself in the words. And look up trauma bond
Yes to this.
Abuse is entitlement. They know she’s unhappy. He knows his choices hurt her. He just values his cheating more than her safety or comfort. He thinks he knows that she won’t really leave. That he just has to be contrite for a while and undermine her a bit and she’ll be back in the kitchen making dinner soon.
They know.
That sums up the behavior of FW narcopath to a tee. During the divorce – and mine was ugly- even told our kids that I’ll let him move back in soon.
Decades ago, in navigating my own fractured family craziness during holiday celebrations, I was advised by my therapist at the time to not host family events and reserve my right to decline to attend if invited to family events. I agreed with her then and still do, and I can report that it was brilliant advice.
This has been my SOP for almost 40 years and it has resulted in nothing but peace and enjoyment of the holidays.
This Thanksgiving, my daughter and I are going to the beach with a picnic featuring turkey sandwiches.
IMHO, the Norman Rockwell family holiday gatherings are the privilege of those fortunate enough to have basically decent close families. If that’s not the case, I’d rather skip the show.
……and when I decide to attend, I always have an exit plan 😉…..
❤️
Holy hell.
Bring her here.
I don’t think in my inner world of “relationship policing” have I considered what it would take to check for hidden surveillance systems in the age of Bluetooth cameras and easily concealable technology, AND check for that kind of thing on the regular. That’s a pretty easy deal breaker for me. There’s taking you at your word and there’s “waving a Flipper around every nook and cranny like I’m playing Ghostbusters looking for signals twice a week”. Yeah no.
The porn addiction is one thing. The weird voyeur stuff, the control that goes with that? That is a complete other level.
Do I even need to talk about how he has probably perved on So Sorry and her family unexpectedly?
He needs to go. And he needs to go NOW.
There is poor and alone and there is the omnipresent “and what else is the fuckwit not talking about that is probably worse.” I don’t think any of us want to die alone-the fact that dying with this animal still in your house means that your death will be caught from multiple angles and in 4K HDR? No. Just no.
As for holidays with toxic people/family members (which are fast upon us), I beg everybody dreading a confrontation at or near the dinner table a question:
Why are you going to begin with?
Seriously. Why?
Is it peer pressure? Are you getting written out of the will if you don’t choke down sweet potato casserole and listen to covert racism? Are people going to be mad at you if you don’t come and put up with them twice annually?
All of us here should be getting good at setting boundaries and limits. It is completely OK to not go someplace if you know for a fact that somebody else is going to be there that you find triggering, do not get along with, have a past with, etc.
And it is completely OK to not go someplace if you see no positive angle on going and it is just going to stress you out, cause you to cope maladaptively, etc.
As our leader said: if it’s your house, it’s your rules. You are allowed to not invite people. The notion of Guest Right, and revocation therein is older than the Bible.
If it is unavoidable…you similarly do not have to interact with anybody any more than you want to. You do not have to stay and cavort.
If I wasn’t doubling that day I’d say come and find me and we’ll have Chumpsgiving together. Hell, we should probably have some holiday gatherings around these parts anyway.
What gets stuck in my craw about things like this is that the only real consequence for asserting yourself is drama and getting called an asshole and “the bad guy.” I get it, nobody wants to be the bad guy. The problem is that in so doing they’re making themselves not just the Bad Guy but also unreliable.
I never wanted to be the Bad Guy or an asshole myself. I also never wanted to be a victim of abuse and to be betrayed like I was. Those drives tend to conflict. My mental health improved dramatically when I started having to work pretty much every holiday. The people that had something to say about my never showing up anymore mysteriously cannot be bothered to reach out or come visit me, either. It tells a story.
You have to protect yourself. If other people aren’t with that, they are probably part of the problem.
Stay Mighty!
I think it was LW’s sister who installed all the hidden cameras — to catch him in whatever act she was suspecting.
Why not tell the kids who are loyal to FW that “He is not allowed in my home, and we can discuss those reasons if you would like. Meanwhile, you are free to choose to not attend if you have strong feelings about it. I will respect your feelings and your choices as you respect mine.”
My BIL (who passed 6 months later at too young of an age, RIP) told me shortly after D-Day that “You will always be my sister, and my brother will always be my brother, but my brother’s mistress is nobody to us (he and his wife). You will always be welcomed in our house, as will my brother because he is still my brother and I love him; but marital infidelity is against our religion and he and his mistress together will not be allowed in my home.” When this BIL passed FW made up an excuse not to attend his funeral because the mistress was not welcome. Well, FWs gotta FW. (Just to illustrate how lame, FW told me that the funeral was too far to drive – 2 hours, so instead he and his “true partner” were going to a tourist spot for the weekend 2 and 1/2 hours away. Brilliant strategy, and I hope he never told his widowed SIL that excuse.)
PS re the general chaos: FWs and their side holes or poles are called “homewreckers” for a reason, and the homes are multiple.