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Dear Chump Lady, The OW is Chinese

suprise_cheaterDear Chump Lady

I found your website recently and I have to say it has totally changed my thinking. I was stuck in a situation of cake eating and now I realise I shouldn’t be and should never have given him this opportunity to feed his ego. I would love to tell you my story, but it’s so long.

I’m new here, but has anyone been in the situation where the OW is Chinese? The affair occurred in China, but she won’t go away as she wants the lifestyle a Western guy can offer. It’s a status symbol for her. She’s 35 and divorced with a child who is being brought up by her in-laws, which is very normal in China. My husband is 50. Chinese guys don’t want divorced women with kids, so the only option she has is a Western guy, namely my husband. All she wants is to marry a Western guy and for her and her family to be kept for the rest of their lives by my husband’s salary.

Has anyone been in this position? Would love to hear from you if you have.

Regards,

Lilypicke

Dear Lilypicke,

I suggest you see a lawyer. Like yesterday. If your husband has been conducting an affair with this Asian twinkie while married to you, it’s not just his salary she’s after — it’s your marital assets. Whatever you have together, his salary, your salary (if you have one), your home, your retirement — is what he is presenting as “his.” You’ve apparently bought into that nonsense. Time to start protecting your investments — not your husband. Lawyer up!

Next step, stop seeing this from the OW’s point of view. She wants a Western husband? People in hell want a cold drink of water. There are 1.354 BILLION people in China. She can’t find a single boyfriend? Seriously? Who told you that sad story — your husband? How noble of him, helping the poor single mom. He’s just trying to better her lot in life! At your expense, of course.

You need to shut this shit down, Lilypicke. Apparently, you have geography on your side. Unless your husband permanently resides in China, he’s doing one hell of a long-distance cake fest. I’m not sure how he could import her if he’s not marrying her. Unless he has asked you to step aside so he can marry this nitwit, I’d assume he’d like to maintain cake indefinitely. He’s enjoying the power and centrality.

There’s a real trade imbalance with China, Lilypicke, so my advice to you is to export him directly to her in China. They send us tainted baby formula, we send them your cheating husband. Seems like a fair swap to me.

You think I’m joking. I’m not really. The solution here is to step away and let them have each other, AFTER you see a kick ass divorce attorney. The problem isn’t an Asian gold digger. The problem is your husband. The world — especially the developing world — is full of sad, desperate cases. Russian mail order brides, Thai prostitutes, Chinese single mothers. And the world is also full of opportunistic, delusional men (sorry guys, it’s mostly men) — who will play knight in shining armor/sex tourist to their poor waif.

Who wants to be married to such a wing nut? Not you, I hope Lilypicke. I hope you’re not fighting her over that salary — because you sure as hell aren’t fighting her for the wonderfulness that is your husband. He’s not wonderful — he’s a total asshole to do this to you. Dump him!

Can you imagine how delightful his life is going to be after a divorce settlement supporting a foreign national with a kid? Not to mention the mortification factor of introducing such a person as his wife.

Step away from the pick me dance and let them have each other.

Ask Chump Lady

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      • Yeah, one of my favourite stories about Murdoch–he married a total gold digger, who has now lawyered up big time with an even more powerful lawyer than she originally hired. I bet the first and second wife are killing themselves laughing.

    • Some parts of this post is not in good taste. The OW is OW…how does nationality, communality or anything matter? Lilypicke, I understand your hatred towards the OW. However, CL is right! Your husband is the culprit…he is no knight in shining armor or anything. Somehow, I have never ever hated OWs of my life. I don’t understand why I should. There are “mostly males” around me as I am an Indian woman working at a high level, where women population tends to be low. If I can afford not to fall for any guy, howsoever great or good (or needy or anything) he is; I expect the same from my husband. period. If he could go to any OW, then he has erred. How does the object of his attention be guilty? Well, well, well…until we consider our own self as pretty low or our husbands as a prize to be won or kept…I don’t think that way. So many people advised me to go after the OW…Ohhh…but I never took that shitty route. What for? My husband has erred. Somebody, who I loved so thoroughly and trusted so deeply, has erred. How does it matter, who was the object of his desire, anyways!

      • While I agree that it’s her husband who broke this marriage partnership, and he alone owns that, it doesn’t negate the possibility that he may have invited a predator into his family’s life.

        If he brought home a grown tiger as a pet for the children, that would be his error too, but it doesn’t mean you don’t protect your children from the tiger… assuming the tiger hasn’t had time to eat them yet.

      • anudi, I see where you are coming from. And as CL says, nationality doesn’t enter into it.

        However, Lilypicke’s cheating husband is using the OW’s nationality as an excuse for the affair. You can hear him now, “Oh, this poor woman. She’s so culturally isolated. Her ex-husband was an asshole, left her, and now she has all these children. Poor OW! I feel soooo sorry for her; I just have to help her with some attention, a bit of sex, some money, etc. None of it means anything.”

        He’s right. It doesn’t mean anything. He can’t help her culture.

        He can help where he puts his dick.

  • While I agree that the OP’s husband is an ass, and Lillypicke, you should get yourself a bulldog lawyer, it is not entirely unlikely that this woman IS viewed as undateable in her country.

    The man-to-woman ratio in China is very uneven because of gender-bias. That gender bias has actually skewed the population so much that there is quite literally not enough men for each woman. Unfortunately, the pervasiveness of the same bias has created the social opinion that divorced women, single mothers, women over 30, career women and any combination of those are unmarryable and therefore unwanted. Which doesn’t help the dating scene very much.

    But don’t get me wrong. This woman can f*ck the hell right off and if she wants herself a western man, she can damn well go find herself one who is SINGLE and NOT break up your marriage and prioritize herself over YOU. However it is not entirely unlikely that she is seen as unwanted in her country.

    Get a good lawyer Lillypicke. Your husband is no saint and it’s not impossible for this woman to find a single westerner. Protect your assets.

    • It’s a real phenomenon http://www.salon.com/2012/03/12/all_the_shengnu_ladies/ — they call them “shengnu” — leftover ladies. My point though was — whatever your cultural hardship, it doesn’t mean you are ENTITLED to another woman’s husband, as you rightly point out. And I guess I’m an eternal optimist. Really, in a country with over one BILLION people, the majority of them men, there isn’t just one person?

      If you’re a cake eater, this sort of gender oppression would seem ideal. You’ve got a desperate woman in one country, and an invested woman in another. Play them off each other indefinitely. High stakes “pick me.”

      • Exactly. Which is why it’s all the more important the OP get a good lawyer. Her husband is a cake-eater. He’s got two levels of desperation cake. The wife at home, and the foreign woman who wants a western life. He can also use the fact that she is in another country to his advantage and ditch her whenever he wants for the next one (I wouldn’t be surprised if there have been, or will be, other women in other countries he wants to white-knight for to get his jollies off.) And a woman in China with a kid can’t show up on his doorstep demanding child-support. It’s the perfect cake for him.

        However, the OP also has an advantage, for the same reasons. She can’t show up on the doorstep out of nowhere. If she wants his assets, which she very much does, and if she wants a western life, also she very much does, she has to marry him. And she can’t do that as long as he’s married to the OP. So given the circumstances, the OP does have geography on her side. She can divorce, and let the OW be her husband’s problem. Once she’s ditched his ass, the OW can come out and he can see how fun it is to have a gold digger for a new wife.

        And that’s what he will be stuck with. He will see how fun it is to be a white-knight to a woman who wants that marriage for an ulterior motive. I bet when she realizes he is divorced, she will kick that into high-gear.

        • If he marries her and brings her back to the U.S., how long do you think she’ll find a better “Westener” now that there are more choices to be had?

          • He works in Europe now so they will settle there, but at the end of the day she’s got away from her home town she’s with a western guy which is what she wanted as she thinks its marrying up. Good luck to them I say, they’re welcome to each other.

  • CL, I’ve always been your admirer. Don’t get me wrong. Divisiveness just has no ends. I have had a stint or two, for over a year each, in US and Canada. I love Canada…just love it! I love India too, perhaps much more…just as I love my mother…though I might find other woman more loving, interesting etc. I’ve seen how difficult it is to marry for woman of the segment you are mentioning in the news article above, across the world, including North America. In fact, you’ve no infanticide in North America. In India for example gender ratios are manually controlled so much so that there are 1.5 males to every 1 female in some parts of India (it seems it is similar in China too as mentioned in this article). Rationality suggests that then women should be more in demand. The only counterbalance logic is that while women are supposed to be married. men are not expected to be. However, even in western cultures, single or unmarried woman are a little taboo (and we chumps know how). However, married or not, some men are surely left out without partners in this skewed game (if we assume that heterosexuals far more outnumber homosexual men)!

    My whole argument is that even if it is truth: it is just a positive truth. It is not normative. CL has generally tried to maintain a global character. Let us not compromise that for the other woman’s sake! Please!

    As far as “tiger” and other arguments are considered…well OW is a tiger, always as a rule! She might be perhaps more dangerous if she has a criminal history behind her than if she is Chinese. period. To safeguard your interests…do whatever you can…see a bulldog lawyer…transport your husband to China or any other God forsaken island with no food…do whatever! That you should do. Remove the focus from the nationality of the other woman…:) . This you shouldn’t.

    • I’m not trying to demonize the OW because she is Chinese. The pressure she faces as a single woman in China is, I’m sure, unjust. IMO, it doesn’t give her license to act unethically. OW, whatever their ethnicity, share a sense of entitlement, as do other cheaters.

      Poverty may drive me to rob banks. It’s still wrong to rob banks.

      I don’t think anyone is saying she’s a predator BECAUSE she is Chinese. I think the point is she could be a predator (gold digger), period.

      • I thought all OW of the world had “predatory wiring” in them! How else can she justify her act of breaking a family to herself? Gold digger…well that is always a high possibility with people of low moral character. One way or other, Lilypicke needs to protect herself from not only this OW, but many others, if she continues to be a chump.

      • I love you CL.
        I agree it has nothing to do with ethnicity, you were sent a letter, that’s what it said, and you gave advice. I admit I cringe whenever (often) people make crack comments here like it’s “Oh so funny” but that’s basically what happened to my X. And I lived in the midst of it for years and know what it does to people and have lost people in death to it but never thought less of them because they were addicts, I wasn’t raised that way. And if some of those people I helped over the years were “smokin the crack pipe” and were dangling said pipe and sex in my X’s face for years after I helped them with food, clothing, etc. and he finally took the bait…do I blame them? No, I still blame him and good riddance. I don’t let it change the fact that he cheated. And I just shrug and read on. We all view life from very different angles, I know we are all just here to help each other.
        P.S. I am not confusing crack pipe with hopium pipe, I know the difference.

      • My H’s OW is a minimum wage earner who latched on to him because he is succesful and has a good job. She’s an American. Oppurtunists come from all races. It’s not about the OW Lilypick do you REALLY think it will be the same if she just goes away. I have been waiting a year for my H to wise up but he is running out of time.

        • My STBX is the gold digger – it is not only not ethnic nor race specific, it’s not gender specific either. He would deny that it’s all about the money, that he’s in lurrrvvve, but he couldn’t love her 20 plus years ago. He seemed to be able to only fall MADLY in love once she got that HUGE divorce settlement that set her on easy street. Imagine that!

  • What exactly is that about? I have a gf whose husband left her 3 yrs ago and has had 5 Asian women as girlfriends so far. They all live in this country, however one of them got deported back to China so that ended that one. Just a penchant for Asian women? Or is it that they are more submissive to men in their culture, and that helps to feed the man’s ego whose felt controlled or emasculated by their ex wife? Is it that they want to be seen as the knight in shining armor and help improve these women’s lives thus ingratiating themselves to the woman?
    My ex is with one of his employees who is definitely in a subordinate position to him, is an alcoholic by all our friend’s and our kids accounts, and she also is a major ‘Suzi homemaker’, and her income/lifestyle is not great. Is he trying to save or rescue her and improve his ego/self-esteem?
    I believe I got fired( it was a shitty job anyway)from our 23 yr marriage, because he could not control me and I expected and demanded equality in the relationship.
    I have heard a lot of stories very similar to this in mid-life. Women come into theirselves, find their strength and voice, and it demasculates the husbands and they ‘affair -down!”

    • I love you CL.
      I agree it has nothing to do with ethnicity, you were sent a letter, that’s what it said, and you gave advice. I admit I cringe whenever (often) people make crack comments here like it’s “Oh so funny” but that’s basically what happened to my X. And I lived in the midst of it for years and know what it does to people and have lost people in death to it but never thought less of them because they were addicts, I wasn’t raised that way. And if some of those people I helped over the years were “smokin the crack pipe” and were dangling said pipe and sex in my X’s face for years after I helped them with food, clothing, etc. and he finally took the bait…do I blame them? No, I still blame him and good riddance. I don’t let it change the fact that he cheated. And when I see a “crack” comment I just shrug and read on. We all view life from very different angles, I know we are all just here to help each other.
      P.S. I am not confusing crack pipe with hopium pipe, I know the difference.

    • I just watched that old feminist horror flick ‘The Stepford Wives’ the other night. The original one with Katherine Ross, not the remake with Nicole Kidman.

      I think there is definitely a sense that What Men Really Want isn’t what they say they do when they marry you, and given half the chance to go for that brass ring, they’ll fire you or otherwise betray you.

      My sister had the good sense to divorce her husband before she’d wasted as much time as I wasted with mine. She said to him “I thought I was marrying my best friend.” His reply: “I just wanted June Cleaver”

      (Apologies to the decent men on the board who were chumped by women)

  • I agree with the concept that all OW/OM are gold diggers at some level. They want something that does not belong to them, and they do not understand about commitment, honesty, and effort.

    In my case, it is the OW 12 years younger than me whom I suspect really just wants a baby daddy. I will never know, as exH and I do not talk about that relationship. But, she got pregnant within 3 months of exH and I deciding to divorce, miscarried, then got pregnant 2 weeks later…so, in the end, the OW was pregnant 2x BEFORE our divorce was finalized.
    Ex hid the first pregnancy (I found out just before the miscarriage…), then when he told me of #2, 3 days after the divorce was finalized, I got the sob story… “I am so upset, we had decided to wait until things were settled, blah, blah, blah,” I was tempted to send that email to her, but refrained from doing so. So, she sounds gold diggerish to me, and she is welcome to him!
    Also, exH married her last weekend… And the kids were not involved. So sad. Another reason I think she is a gold digger/wants a baby daddy.

    So, while cultural background may play a minor role in this situation , it is minor.
    In the end all the matters is: the husband cheated, and the OW simply did not care he was married.

    I am truly sorry Lilypicke. Get a lawyer, work out the finances so he is not spending your money on her anymore, and start to rebuild your life.

    Hugs.

    • Well before the divorce was over, my ex was forced to tell my teenagers that they were going to have a half sibling. He was so embarrassed that he actually told my kids that they were planning to put it up for adoption because it wasn’t fair for a child to be raised by such an old dad.

      Yep, I’m saving that one for sometime in the future.

      Yes, the OW definitely wanted a baby daddy and to cinch the deal (sleeping her way to the top).

    • My XWH is with a white woman who is a total gold digger. She has no degree, likely outdated skills, hasn’t held down a job in over a decade, and she wanted out of her crappy marriage. Enter Ashley Madison as the “dating service,” and enter my gullible XWH who thought that he had found his soulmate. The Owife needed someone with a steady paycheck, source of health insurance, and a roof over his head.

      What is funny is that she traded down– she’s married to a man who makes far less than her first husband, has to pay child support for three children for many years, and lives in a fixer-upper of a house in an isolated area (OW came from a new build in a fancy little neighborhood). But, she was desperate and needy enough to use my XWH as her escape plan. Poor dear– she’ll have to start trolling AM again when she realizes that she wants to escape from her escape plan!

      So, yeah– whether it’s for money, escapism, neediness– every OM/OW is a gold digger, no matter where that person is from.

    • The OW in my case was VERY interested in my 3 sons, on a few levels! For one, when you’re a druggie/selfish/partyer all your life, and too late to have kids at 47, she figured she’d just swipe mine. Also, she pictures herself as their peer, cause she’ll never grow up- 3 more friends to hang with! So, she wanted to grab my spouse, get a family for free, that’s a really disgusting kind of golddigger. Too bad her stupid lot wouldn’t work, because my sons think she’s rotten dog vomit. What kind of a souless idiot tries to get a family by theft? Oh yeah- her!

  • Agree, time to divorce. Who give a shit about the OW’s motivation or ethnicity. Your H is a cheater. People should always divorce cheaters, IMO.

  • I know I’m way off topic, but I done some research because there were a lot of typical narcissistic behavioral traits that didn’t seem to apply to my (female) sweatheart vampire. Except for the utter lack of empathy which i finally came to know during the seven years I used to ‘know’ her.

    We all have come to know that narcissist like no other know how to fly under your rader. But did you ever heard about the steath narcissist, the one that no radar ever could pick up. They even got a name: ‘covert narcissist’.

    http://thenarcissistinyourlife.com/category/covert-narcissists/

    Well, it seems like I wasn’t fooled by your average garden variety , narcissist. Oh no, I was worthy of their most clever, cunning, secretative and most destructive (or so I read)
    type. Should I take that as a small comfort?

    • Dawg, only the best for you!!! Yeah, some narcissists are pretty obvious (and we sometimes fall for them anyway), others are more discreet.

      I actually can recognize the kind this article describes pretty well – ANYTHING that seems too good to be true, IS. My weakness was the not-very-sparkly, poor-sausage type of narcissist. The one who I can see is smart and attractive, but he doesn’t really believe it, there’s an underlying insecurity … which can be fixed by a truly loving, supportive woman, right????? But nothing ever makes them feel better or be happy, and the selfishness and entitlement are HUGE! And take a while to show up, even longer to believe …..

    • Definitely Dawg!
      Thanks for the link….I definitely got the “gradual awareness” but of course shrugged it off and as time went by the damage was done…

      • @ Karen, Toni

        I really appreciate your recognition. I wonder if anybody who never hads been chumped will ever understand what the hell I’m talking about. I’d like to think that love should be too good to be true but when even competent and experienced shrinks can be fooled then maybe, just maybe, you should examine your assumptions. To me this is all very confusing, because I also learned that without surrender there can be no love. Take care.

        • “without surrender there can be no love”

          Absolutely true, Dawg; love and relationships are always a risk, you have to jump in at the deep end, and there are no guarantees.

          But from now on, I hope to at least check that there are no sharks in the pool, that the water isn’t full of algae, that there IS water in the pool, and that I remember how to swim, before I jump. I can’t guarantee I won’t get chumped again, but it’s going to be WAY harder for somebody to deceive me. And I will no longer collaborate in maintaining an unhealthy relationship, once it becomes evident.

          • I am turning 50 soon, and this monologue keeps lurking in the back of my mind:

            “It was in the winter of my fiftieth year
            When it hit me
            I was really alone
            And there wasn’t a hell a lot of time left
            Every laugh and touch that I could get
            Became more important
            Strangely, I became more bookish
            And my home and study meant more to me
            As I considered the circumstances of my death
            I wanted to find a balance between joy and dignity
            On my way out
            Above all, I didn’t want to take any more shit
            Not from anybody
            Iggy Pop, “No Shit”.

    • Thank you so much for that link, this is absolutely what I have just been dealing with!! Covert narcs!!! So much harder to see than obvious narcs, but I think even more dangerous. I am literally reading every article on that blog and it is amazingly correct. I am really going to have to watch the people around me now, these people are so deceptive. It’s like they read you and become anything you want/need them to be. When the game is up though….they turn pretty quickly!!!

      • You’ll find a lot more stuff just by googling on “covert narcissism” (cv). In the articles I’ve read thus far the behavioral traits associated with cv are strikingly similar, but the explanations are not and often seemingly conflicting. Also these explanations are hard to grasp for people (like me) not versed in the psychological lingo.

        Also reading some of this stuff is pretty scary and exhausting because you can’t help but wondering about your own psychological make up and the possibility that maybe you’re a little bit fucked up in your head yourself. For instance when I read that there really is not so much of a difference beteen the narc and the copendent. The’re just on different places on a spectrum of disordered behavior. One could even become the other. If that sounds strange to you, think about thoughts or acts of revenge- and rebound fucks. You want to hurt the one you love most because your self image and self esteem has been damaged.

    • Dawg, I was married to a covert N – he was the proverbial nice guy. No one could believe what he had gotten up to and I think, to this day, some believe that I embellished the story. I didn’t. He really did screw around with lots of women behind my back while letting me truck along thinking all was right in my world.

      I see who he is now and thus he’s no longer covert. It’s right out there in the open. He’s vile.

      • Once again, don’t want to hijack the topic because this one is about Lilipicke, but I feel the distinction open/covert narcissist matters a lot. No to Untangle The Skein Of Fuckupnes (I really like expressions like these) but to assist in assessing and confronting the reality you are faced with. Seems to me the behavioral traits of open versus covert narcs can differ like day and night. To the extent that these traits belong to completely different disorders. Has the distinction open/covert NPD ever been covered on this blog before?

  • Hi thanks to everyone for your amazing responses. I am seeking legal advice and I will divorce him asap. I will move on with my life and make a better one without him. I have my wonderful children who are so supportive and I will get through this.

    • Yay LP!
      I often (selfishly) wish my girls were smaller, or younger again because when I lost my husband many years ago (plane crash) they kept me going because they needed me 100%. But they have been my backbone through all of this (Well them, and CL and ya’ll) so KNOW you will make it!

      • Thanks for your support I will make it, I have to for my kids and my family who are rooting for me every step of the way.

  • Lilypicke, I think you make the right choice to divorce.

    I also wanted to interject a different possibility from the one your STBX is telling you. She may very well have fallen for him, he may have promised much and now she is bereft. She may not have known he was married until after she fell in love, she may feel betrayed too.

    I met a Chinese woman during a group therapy who was “imported” by her husband and he commenced to abuse her afterward. He had a heart attack after his last horrible abuse of her and she still loved him and wished she could have been a better wife. She blamed herself for his abuse and for his death. The culture in China is such that I have some empathy for a woman struggling to care for herself and her child, some western guy swoops in and “saves” her and then she finds out he’s married and he blames his wife for why he can’t actually “save” her. Just a thought, she might have been hooked before she knew he was lying to her too and was married.

    I personally have contempt for anyone who would KNOWINGLY hook up with someone already in a committed relationship but I am not jealous of them, nor do I place any blame upon them for the choice my ex made to have an affair. But I have some empathy for anyone who UNknowingly has an affair with a married person and falls in love before they find out. Honestly, if you think about it, the AP is in a similar boat to the cheated upon spouse.

    • Hi, she knew he was married from the outset but she said she didn’t mind. When she moved into our apartment she said when your wife comes to visit ill move out till she’s gone back.
      She has a child from her first marriage but as is common in China the child is brought up by the grandparents. In this case it’s her ex husbands parents, she hardly has any contact and has no worry about moving to another country and leaving the child behind.
      She has also had a relationship with another married western man but he wouldn’t leave his wife so she ended the relationship.
      I’m not excusing my husband I’m just trying to explain what its like out there, there are no excuses for what he’s done.
      .

      • I got you Lily. Still the right choice to divorce and hey, he’s got his new wife all lined up right… Be strong, be brave, it will get better without your drama man.

  • Lilypicke, if you read through the different responses to CL’s blog posts, you’ll find out that a lot of us wonder if we were married to the same person! Male or female–the cheaters are so alike that it’s scary. Or perhaps pathetic.

    Ethnicity doesn’t really enter into it, as so many have said. Yes, the OW may have problems within her culture, but the answer is not for your husband to have an affair with her or otherwise support her financially. Philanthropy is about institutions, not individuals. Your Soon-To-Be-eX-Husband needs quite a few lessons in how to draw boundaries.

    A lot of our cheaters seem to play Knight in Shining Armor. Yes, the OW is probably predatory (and I will agree that on some level, all APs are predatory–after all, they’re poaching!). But I’m concerned about some of what I don’t see in your story. For example, is your husband trying to tell you the affair is over, but the OW won’t let it go? That’s a mindfuck! The fact is that your husband had an affair when he was out of the country on business. If his company sends him on business trips, then you can never be sure that he’s not having affairs any time he’s away.

    Likewise, if he tries to excuse the affair by saying that he felt sorry for her, well, can you be sure that he’s not going to fuck every woman who tells him a sad story?

    It is very likely that once you lawyer up, he’ll try to tell you how it was a horrible mistake, how he really does love only you, etc. However, you have to ask yourself if he’s sorry he had the affair or if he’s sorry that he’s now paying the consequences. If he’s truly sorry, then he will be willing to do the work. CL has a great post on this, by the way. He’ll do it even if there’s no guarantee that you’ll take him back.

    As you lawyer up, try not to tip your hand. You want your ducks lined up. When you make your move, make it decisively. This way, your cheater will know you mean business. If you hem or haw about it, then he’ll try to gaslight you some more. Lots of chumps have long faux reconciliations, and lots of chumps chase the unicorn of hope because they feel bad when their cheaters cry crocodile tears.

    Best of luck to you.

    • Ddw has a good insight, too. It is possible that your husband fed her a line, gaslighting her just as he is gaslighting you. Remember, if he is the only source of the story, he has a vested interest in making himself appear to be some kind of victim–all the while glossing over the fact that he was having sex with someone not his wife!

    • Yep KB,
      “A lot of our cheaters seem to play Knight in Shining Armor”
      The straw that broke this camels back was a “poor homeless girl”, 20 years younger with a sad sad tale to tell (my hometown takes notoriously good care of the homeless, and it’s America’s only frost free city)
      And guess who called ME furious when he found out she knew every single drug dealer in town” like I told him….it was YOUR choice over me” Bwaahaahaaha!

    • I agree with you cheaters are so alike.
      He has ended it with her 3 or 4 times now, but she insists that they remain friends and he agrees because he doesn’t want to hurt her feelings and that she has no one to support her utter rubbish of course its just an excuse to keep in contact with her. One time he ended it when he was leaving China for good and she said its ok we will be secret lovers, when you come back to china on business which he has to do even in his new company she said she will stay in the hotel with him and that no one needs to know.
      I know my story must seem a bit vague but its so long and complicated it would take me an age to write. And all I seem to do is defend him, I don’t mean to do this I’m just explaining what life is like there, you won’t believe it until you experience it.
      We tried the reconciliation bit and he told me there would be no contact, lied of course she was contacting him but she told him she was getting married to someone else. Someone she had known for a while and was Chinese, rich and successful. This made him panic because he couldn’t believe that she could love someone else a week after they ended their relationship. She has since admitted that she had lied about this. But it was enough for him to tell me that he didn’t want to reconcile so I left, he’s had enough chances.

      • LP
        Honey, the bottom line is he’s unfaithful. To you. His wife.

        My X tried to drag me into all the intricate details of “why this” and “why that” and “then this happened” because I always had his back and thought he had mine.

        Well you know what? I told him to go F himself and went total NC unless it involves his Mom and he doesn’t care about her either so I am her only emergency contact for her neighbors.

        I mean come on…isn’t life complicated enough? You have to think about your family and survival for your family not his High School BS because he was Fing someone in a foreign country while you were patiently home missing him amd ensuring his life on thr homefront was running smoothly and the kids were great!

        This is NOT some 1 in a million unique situation (read this blog from day 1) It’s just another woman/man screwing someone behind their partners back. Happens all day, every day, is happening in countless places right now and countless wives/husbands/kids families will be devastated because of it. Stop trying to http://chumplady.com/2012/06/untangling-the-skein-of-fuckupedness/ and just RUN!

        Sorry for the vent but it really doesn’t matter if it’s on the other side of the street or the world…to me him trying to drag you into it is almost as despicable as them doing it in the first place…and really pisses me off!

        Chin up, and keep reading CL…XO

        • Thanks you are so right and you’re not venting, just telling it as it is and I need to hear that right now. And I’m getting there its only been 10 days since I left. How is the NC working for you? I’m trying it but he’s been my best friend for nearly 30 years and whilst I’m not contacting him its really hard, I feel like I have to sit on my hands sometimes to stop myself from picking up my phone.

        • It’s been months for me and basically the NC saved me. This SITE saved me! And NC is one of the biggest pieces of advice here. I was so devasted that when I stumbled accross the site I treated it as my bible and did everything CL and evreyone on the site told me to do, blindly, with full faith. I’m about 7 months in and highly recommend it. I will never be able to Thank CL enough. We are all here for you!

          • Really NC saved you? Is that because it allowed you time to heal? He’s my best friend, I’ve known him since i was 15 years old. its so hard to not tell him how my day has been and ask how his was, tell him I saw this today or that happened today. How do you cope?

            • He is not your best friend if he has betrayed you! Somewhere along the line, best friendship has been misplaced. You’ll have to break off with the impulse to use him as a sounding board for your life’s circumstances.

              I had a long pick-me dance with my ex that included a lot of personal stuff about me, nostalgia about us, stuff about the kids, etc. When I realized that none of it really mattered to him because he shared all that totally private stuff with HER (she knew WAY TOO MUCH), going no contact was the easiest thing in the world. It’s self preservation and stops a destructive process (that somehow feels therapeutic) dead in it’s tracks.

              Try it. It’s the only thing they “listen” to.

              I also bought a BIG DOG. He stands on his hind legs and gives me hugs, is way more loyal than the ex ever dreamed of being, and I can unburden my gunk on him and he never gets tired of it. He’s great company and costs a lot lesss to maintain than the ex.

            • I trusted my STBXH for 25 years. I love the advice to call him some other name because he’s not the man I married, that is for sure.

              On our anniversary, we had out of town guests. We were going to go out to dinner with them. He called, supposedly from work, to say he was running late. In fact, he was having coffee with OW at a Starbucks (I found the receipt with the time stamp). This past week, I was out of town. I go out of town on my birthday week–I have for about 7 years, since STBXH was always too tired/too busy to celebrate it if it fell during the work week. Well, the day I left town, he took OW to one of the nicest restaurants in town. He wined her and dined her all weekend. Her birthday is close to mine. Happy birthday to me?

              So yes, I used to think of him as my best friend, but not any more. You have to know them by their actions. If you listen to what they say, they pretend things are just normal.

            • NC saves you because they can’t use all the emotionally manipulative tricks they used in the past to make you believe they care or were your friend.

              And you won’t be able to trick yourself into rearranging his words or translating them into meaning something they don’t mean just in order to make yourself believe you are being cared for or loved.

              A man who loves you doesn’t abandon you. A man who loves you and cares about you doesn’t fuck other women and think about other women all day long, and lie to your face.

              How sick is it that you can still feel in your heart that he is your “best” “friend.” It’s pretty darned sick.

              I know. I was there. I went through grieving (high functioning grief, but soul-eating grief nonetheless) when I had to go without the chats, the checking in, the reassurance, the companionship.

              But then I realized that all of that was soiled by his irritability, his constantly putting me off, his begrudging attitude toward me. I had some time to think about all the ways he was actually pretty shitty to me. And, of course, right at the top of the list was the most obvious sign–you know, the one we won’t look directly at–and that is the lying and cheating.

              Turns out the passive little coward was a huge drain, in fact, and I’d trained myself to see him as much better than he really was. And it was nice to finally release myself from that, and from the guilt of questioning my feelings for him, which were just honestly disconcerted with who he really was. But I was good at brushing those feelings under the rug, For the Children, For the Marriage, For my Husband.

              There are times I miss certain things–like hiking together, and the sex. But, really, I don’t miss him, and the thought of going back to what he really was just puts a sour look on my face.

              I was really pretty good to him. He to me? Not so much. I trained myself to think that was ok. Guess what? You did, too. And now it’s time to rip off the bandaid and let that festering wound get some fresh air so it can heal.

              Anyone who misses a guy who leaves her to fuck a stranger, a guy who lives inside his own little fucked up fantasy world, obviously needs a new perspective. That’s you. Time to let go. You’re holding onto an illusion.

              You’re holding onto a delusion, really. You need to help yourself. You allowed him to make you weak. Time to get strong. It feels awesome.

              • Oh the delusion of the perfect man….I even find myself saying he was a good husband…except for that whole lying and cheating thing….seriously, getting to acceptance of the illusion is HARD and sucks but I wouldn’t have it any other way.

            • All they do is lie. You think you are having a real honest conversation. But you no longer know what is true anymore. Trust is gone… At least that’s what I’ve run into.

          • Lilepick, NC is really really hard but it will make it easier for you to accept what’s happened and focus on your own healing. I actually had a friend who agreed to let me call her any time I had the urge to call my ex. I swear it’s like fighting an addiction but once you get through it, you won’t have the desire to call him any more. It helps you get your head clear a lot faster to go NC.

            • Thanks I do appreciate your input. I have the opportunity to go away for 3 weeks next week so I think I’m going to take it. There’s no wifi and no cell phone signal so I can’t be contacted at all. Think this is my chance to make a start at NC. I miss him so much though, how did you deal with that part of it?

              • Lilypicke, NC will make such a difference, you will feel better much faster. BUT, that doesn’t mean it’s easy or that you’re not going to be on an emotional roller-coaster for months, maybe a year – depending on how much of a surprise this was.

                Finding out your partner had an affair, and chose his own selfish pleasure, knowing it would mean suffering for you and likely the end of your relationship is TRAUMATIC. And having to learn to live w/o your best friend is very, very hard.

                Besides NC, what helped me the most was thinking of the man I had loved as being gone. The person I wanted to talk to didn’t really exist, the person I was missing didn’t exist; in his place was someone who REALLY REALLY didn’t care about me (or certainly not enough!), and who used me to get his own needs met without reciprocating.

                And accept that you’re going to miss him, going to want to talk to him, going to wonder how he’s doing. Accept what your heart feels, while still letting your HEAD chose what to do (NC). Fill as much time as you can w/other people who DO care about you, rant and cry on them as much as you need to, and do small and big things that take care of you, make you feel good.

                It does get easier, but it does take time. You are struggling with accepting all the implications of this betrayal, and grieving.

              • Lilypicke, go on that 3 week trip and talk to people, do new things, be you without having to ask if it’s OK to do or be or sleep or whatever, go be with yourself and like yourself.

                I don’t know if it will help you, I’m an introvert and a very self sufficient person who rarely put my needs first, it’s hard for me to take care of me without someone else to take care of, but how I started dealing with missing my ex (17 years) was this:

                I wrote down “pros & cons” of our marriage and I was surprised to find that there were very few “pros”. And that most of the pros I did write were followed by “until he cheated on me” or “he stopped doing that years ago”. Try it.

                I realized that we really didn’t interact anywhere nearly as much as I thought. I was seeing my relationship through the lens of our early years. Over time nearly all of our great interactions had ceased. It had been years since we had a spirited discussion of politics, same for sex and cuddling, the list goes on.

                I realized I’d loved the first him so much I’d managed to put out of my mind that the man I fell in love with hadn’t really existed for years, this is “spackle”, he was nothing like the person I had in my head. For the last several years we’d been living in the same house but we hadn’t really been intimate or together beyond telling each other how our work day went.

                I realized that having *him* breathing next to me in bed is not needed, what I was missing was having *anyone* breathing in bed next to me. We have some very subconscious needs and that is one of them for me but it can be overcome, now days if the cat is on the bed I’m fine. You might get an ocean CD…

                I think the most important thing you need is to connect with other people because you now have a hole in your life. If you have become isolated you need friends, reach out to the ones that you’ve maybe lost contact with and try to find new ones. I cannot advise on how to get new ones, I’m still struggling to connect with new people and make friends.

                Lastly, find a therapist to talk to, even if they suck it’s good to have someone you can say ANYTHING to and they won’t be upset, judge you or try to make you feel better before you are ready. A good therapist will help you get past the pain so keep looking if the first or third doesn’t help you.

                (hugs) and we are here for you

              • I struggle with NC thing too. However, my husband just took the boys away to see his family in Canada. His deadbeat father was there… the one that couldn’t find a way to come to his only sons wedding 25 years ago.

                I DEFENDED MY HUSBAND, by expressing my disappointment in this loser. However, wasband, took my words as justification for continuing to hurt me by denying me time with our children and with one of them, the only opportunity. (I wouldn’t let you come after the way you spoke about my father. OMG!!! talk about your mindfucks!!!) The older son called me up in tears because he didn’t understand why I couldn’t come. His GF agreed. Thought it was completely weird. You see… she comes here… for family stuff. So, what’s the difference? There is none in reality.

                You see… wasband isn’t really my friend. He knows that I’m devastated and lonely and that I very much wanted to come because this is the only family I have. But he is cruel and heartless.

                So, wasband FINALLY calls me when he’s about an hour away from home. He did not see to it either, that our high functioning autistic son call me the entire time which is just plain wrong and now, that he’s nearly home, he calls after 6 days to see how my weekend was????????????

                seriously? I spent half of it crying my eyes out… then I wrote on here… I did go to ballet… then I cried some more…

                I truly hate him.

                He was all that I had. (No wonder I’m depressed.)

                but we used to share “everything.” oh wait… no, NOT everything! but we did laugh and laugh…

                he killed everything.

                But Karen and Datdamwuf, you are both completely right. I am still fixated on this other person… the one who isn’t really there any more. That man loved me and was 1000% devoted to me… That man WAS my best friend and perhaps there are some vestiges of him, but for the most part… he is gone and this imposter has taken over his psyche.

                The imposter can go fuck himself.

              • It’s so important to get some space without the cheater’s influence so you can think straight. I did miss my ex terribly at first, it was really awful. In my case he wouldn’t answer any emails that were emotional, though, and would only discuss financial matters in the most monotone of voices. A few times of trying to break through the robot into the real person I remembered and I stopped going back for that. I would ask myself every time I wanted to contact him, “Is this going to help me or hurt me?” Most of the time my answer was “This is going to hurt me” so I didn’t do it. You have take care of yourself and protect yourself as if you are a parent protecting the wounded and abandoned child inside.

  • And would also like to add that there is a language barrier. Apparently if he sends her a text message with more than 10 words in it she has to copy and paste it into a translator app. Considering that their relationship is mainly based on text messages, she texts him constantly throughout the day but due to time difference of 6 hours they can’t do much else, it just proves to me that its an infatuation on his part and I’m better off without him.

    • yep, definitely not interested in her for the stimulating conversations.

      My kids and I would have had an easier time dealing with things if the ex had had an affair with someone we could respect. There were actually plenty of opportunities among his profession. She’s just a dumb bimbo — since we aren’t having sex with her, we really have nothing in common and nothing to talk about.

      • Chumpalicious,
        From my side of the window, it’s worse. I wish my exH HAD picked a bimbo, or a drug addict. Then you can realize the person you knew is gone.
        1) my daughter is having a hard time, becaus her new stepmom (that she has met once, Skyped with a few times), is actually a lot like me… Just 12 years younger. Daughter even pointed out to me that exH/her father has a type, and listed of about 8 characteristics we both shared. It was painful for me, but I just smiled and said she was right. And I pointed out that his first AP, the one from before she was born, was also like that.

        My ‘little’ girl is 12 yrs old. But, the upside, apparently daughter thinks I am charismatic! Who knew I could still be cool to the preteen 😉

        2) so, it was very tough for me for a few months there, as I felt as if I was simply replaced by the younger model.

        No matter how you slice it… Infidelity cuts to the core.

        • Infidelity bites. I’m sorry for your pain!

          *sigh*

          What bites is that we ever give one shit about these idiots.

          Maybe if our brains were more like, “Oh, my God, you’re a cheater!?! GTF away from me! WHEW! I just got rid of a cheater!!” And then you’d rejoice–that’d be fantastic!

        • zyx321,

          There was always something about this bimbo — I couldn’t put my finger on it. Her smarmy smile with lots of gum showing above the teeth just made me cock my head a little. Then the kids came home after a Christmas visit (the only time my daughter ever goes to visit) with a camera pic of the two of them and new baby in the exact same pose I had seen of his Ma & Pa holding ex as an infant. OMG. He finally married his mother! She looks just like his mother at that age, and has the same background and (lack of) education.

          I just can’t keep up with the deep deep psychological twists and turns of these lives here on the earthly stage. Who authored this stuff anyway?

  • Replace Chinese with Russian and you will get my story. She is divorced with kids, 10 years younger than me, not working, alcoholic, smoker, won’t be surprised if she does drugs too, and who knows what her sex life is like. They spent several weeks together a year ago while he was on a trip (and while I was diligently working and packing kids for college, I also had to replace my car battery by myself, take care of his mom who got ill, ahrrr).

    She didn’t know her knight was married until a month after he had left. So, he now claims it was all done to help her in a difficult situation with none else there for her (was he there for me during these several weeks)…. Communication between them is mainly via internet now – video chats and sexing almost on a daily basis (yes, he does show early signs of aging when it comes to performance in bed, so the internet is much safer and fun, I guess, and less work too…)

    I know, I am the crazy one, because I am the one who puts up with this shit. Well, he tries to hide it and I pretend I do not even suspect it (but as it turns out my technology skills are very comparable to his). I did stop with the marriage policing several months ago, because I do not care any more. However his behavior makes me believe they are still in contact. Whatever…

    My focus right now is on reclaiming my life: work where I hold a pretty high position (did I mention I have always been the one earning almost as double as he is); enjoy time at the gym with my son; advise the other one on his college life, take care of my looks; eat healthy; I honestly feel and look much better than a year ago, it shows, and people do comment on it.

    How exactly will my relationship with my husband develop, I do not know. Maybe I do not care much anymore as I have reached “Meh” even while still married. (and I am extremely careful with the finances. He is too lazy to deal with it. And no, he does not like to spend money on anything, even on himself).

  • LP,

    He has a new best friend…his new AP and what do they talk about? What a chump you are. Welcome to chumpland USA. We’ve all been there. We’re all chumps. He only listens to what you did today to appease you. It’s not easy. I was married for 20 years and was shocked and tried to rationalize it. She would call me at work. I thought it was because she wanted to say hello. She was checking to make sure I was there so she could screw around at home while I was at work.

    Be strong and be right.

      • Ouch indeed. Tennis, I was shocked as well by so many things and it took me far too long to accept that I married a narc asshole who had used me up and cast me aside for a much younger more ‘fun’ model. Sure, I was the one who threw him out and initiated everything but he’d been cheating for years, it seems, and essentially had gone through the motions without me even noticing he wasn’t ‘there’. I don’t honestly think he was ever really ‘there’, other than during the first high of the relationship.

  • Replace “Chinese” or “Russian” with “dumb blonde” who needed the coward I was married to, and you have my story.

    In one story, they were house hunting together over text messages I intercepted. He referred to the houses by their prices, “$108k” or “$130k.” She asked, “What’s a k?”

    And I’m sure when he had to translate it for her, it gave him a giant boner because it meant that he is very intelligent compared to her.

    After BD, I could give myself a giggle in front of him by asking in my best dumb blonde voice, “What’s a k?” Then, in my best douchebag voice, “In this case, K means a thousand.”

    My constant praise of his intelligence was no good any more. SHE is dumber than him (or pretends to be), and it makes him feel like such a man. Also, he offered to update her iPod with all his excellent ’70’s tunes. Such a stud, that one!

    Cheater men need constant affirmation of their prowess. And they have active imaginations and indulge themselves in private little fantasies with human stand-ins. The whole thing is sick.

    • He told me once, after BD, that he’d offered her gas money when she drove the hour and a half or so to meet him for trysts in motels or our family truck. “She never accepts it,” he’d marvel, dreamily. Totally made him feel like a man to offer his babe some cash–how chivalrous. That chick had long-term goals. Maybe she’s not so dumb. On the other hand, she did “win” him….

  • So many issues to address here . . .

    I have first-hand experience of this issue; my husband got involved with a young woman when he was working in Beijing a few years ago.
    She was young enough to be his daughter (ugh) and wanted a new life in the west with a convenient sugar-daddy. However, she also wanted children and dropped him like a brick when she discovered he’d had a vasectomy after our third child, some twenty-odd years ago. She was keeping her options open, playing-along several western men simultaneously.
    He told her from the start that he’d no intention of leaving his wife – so he was using her as much as she was using him.

    I have no issue with her. Life is difficult for most women in China. They’re still second-class citizens and she was just doing what she could to “better” herself.

    Culturally, China cannot be compared to the west. They have a totally different moral code. What matters most is “face” .
    For her, there was no shame in asking for money from the men she was stringing along. It would have been worse for her to have given something and not gotten something in return. A thousand yuan – in return for a night of sex – goes a long way when you consider that most ordinary Chinese are lucky to earn 2500 Y a month. That’s less than 410 US dollars, by the way.

    Going back to the original post – A thirty-five year old woman, whose child is being raised by the ex-in-laws, is on a sticky wicket. Despite the fact that there are millions of men looking for women, she would be seen as used goods and a man would lose face by taking up with her. Without an education or qualifications, her options are limited.

    When over there, we noticed that people on the lowest incomes would put themselves into huge debt in order to obtain the latest gadgets and desirable accoutrements – in order to gain face.
    My husband was told several times that people would not take him seriously unless he was kitted out with an expensive watch, the latest mobile phone and a flashy fountain pen.
    In the large cities, shops are full of expensive designer goods – clothing, handbags, cosmetics etc – and that’s what a lot of young women aspire to. That gives them face.

    I have no prejudice against that young woman or her race. It’s unfair to generalise and we can’t judge an entire race by the behaviour of a few women.
    But we can’t judge them by western standards either.

    If anyone was at fault in my situation – it was my husband, for breaking his marriage vows, and this is something he fully realises and says he will regret to the end of his days.
    He’d been a loyal husband for over thirty years before his “fall from grace” and was in a bad place psychologically when he met that woman. It’s a very long story which I won’t go into here – but that is why I was able to forgive him and am now able to trust again.
    People make mistakes – but he knows that if he makes another one like that, his ass will be divorced. Instantly.

    • Oh, the old “bad place psychologically” dilemma. Well, then, how can anyone blame him?Probably was not feeling “connected” and was having a MLC.
      Sort of like when I beat my wife with a baseball bat because of my childhood abandonment issues. WTF, some folks thought I deserved a consequence, the unfeeling, unevolved, bitter assholes.

  • It is interesting to learn about the problem of people becoming involved with desperate women overseas. I’ve often wondered how some of my old classmates ended up with young oriental women. Always assumed they were in the military, but maybe they were just business people on a trip who got involved. No matter what, the person who breaks their marriage vows is the one to be held accountable. Many people thought I should contact OW and tell her off, but I always answered that it was my husband’s issue of breaking his vows that was the problem. She was married to, BTW.

  • Lilypikle; I am from South Florida, and down here it is the Spanish women from all over that are going after American men with all 18 wheels!!! Many are unrepentant home wreckers who could care about the fallout left behind of women & children, as long as they get what they want, and they are not the women & children left in the rubble. Saving a damsel in distress is “Kibbles n’ Bits” because they are just so grateful…..for awhile…..but believe me, they have met their match down the road, so grab a seat and some popcorn, this should be a jolly good show!

    • This is true, Any idiot man who is in “rescue mode” is going to rue the day down the road. He is going to have an infantile, demanding, asshole on his hands(much like himself).

  • Arnold and Laurel

    Feel free to label me a delusional chump; it bothers me not.

    You don’t know me and you don’t know my husband.
    In the face of such cynicism, I can’t be bothered to go into the details of why I’m confident that this errant behaviour was a one off – but I’d stake my life on it.
    People make mistakes. He’ll regret his – and the pain he caused me – to the end of his days.
    I’m not prepared to jettison a thirty-seven year long relationship because of ONE mistake.

    With sincere wishes that you find happiness in your own lives.

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