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UBT: “The explanations were never good enough.”

temperHey, it’s UBT narcissistic rage week here at Chump Lady! We seem to be getting a spate of UBT submissions in the dumped-cheater-feels-hard-done-by category. The poor sausages.

Yesterday, I got this letter from a chump whose cheating ex (surprise) is not a fan of Chump Lady. I found it so toddler-in-a-fit-of-pique-esque  that I asked to UBT it.

Dear Chump Lady

I recently dumped my cheating husband. I told him about your amazing book and gave him a copy.  I also told him that you are smartest person on the planet because, not only were you a Watson fellow (like my daughter), but after buying and reading every “adultery” book on Amazon, your book was the only one that made any sense and actually helped me.  Here is his reply:

“Throughout it all I have tried to make amends. I have examined what I did, and admitted that I was horribly wrong. My words fell on deaf ears. I tried to explain, but the explanations were never good enough. Meanwhile, you gave your version of the truth to your shrinks, who of course had to believe you—and so they affirmed your interpretation of the ‘truth,’ and concluded that I am a bad apple. Finally, one of your shrinks introduced you to the Chump/Chink/Crank/Chimp/Chunk, a bitter woman who stupidly married (twice!) deceitful men. After receiving the consequences for such stupidity, She wrote a book designed to condemn all adulterers—without regard to the circumstances. She is largely correct—but her extreme bitterness leaks through, and she slanders otherwise good people. Nothing, but nothing in this world is as absolute as she makes them out to be. The only absolute that I can say about the book is that the author is a cunning, mistaken, foul-mouthed, conniving, bitter, vicious bitch. I don’t give a shit that she was a Watson fellow. Being smart and accomplished has nothing to do with being a nice person.”

I thought you would get a hoot from his rant.


P.S. My cheater tells me that you are also lesbian. Be sure to tell your husband!

Dear Suzy,

Calling me a lesbian is not an insult, as I find the lesbians I know to be very pleasant. It’s simply inaccurate. Tell your husband I think he’s a nice piece of buttered toast.

Now to UBT his rant.

Throughout it all I have tried to make amends. I have examined what I did, and admitted that I was horribly wrong.

This is HUGE, having to admit that cheating was wrong. And that I cheated, and so ergo I might be wrong. As in mistaken. Like when you try to solve the puzzle on Wheel of Fortune but you choose the wrong vowel? Like that. Horribly wrong!

My words fell on deaf ears.

I humiliate myself by admitting a mistake, an imperfection, a speck of lint on my otherwise unassailable suit of narcissism, and YOU DON’T CARE!

I tried to explain, but the explanations were never good enough.

UBT: Because there are no explanations for cheating. Every “explanation” is just a rationalization or excuse or attempt to blameshift and mindfuck.

They’re not “good enough” because they’re beside the point. They’re not actions.

Which, now that you mention it, the UBT notices you failed to apologize.

Meanwhile, you gave your version of the truth to your shrinks, who of course had to believe you

There is no truth, only “versions” of the truth. The truth is situational. Your truth is that I cheated on you. Well, that’s one version. If you would’ve listened to any of my handy explanations, you would’ve understood MY truth (which is that you drove me to it).

—and so they affirmed your interpretation of the ‘truth,’

YEAH. Air quotes, baby! “Truth”! Only in your version of the “truth” am I horribly wrong. But in MY version of the truth, I am splendid!

and concluded that I am a bad apple.

I hate shrinks. They’re so judge-y. They fail to consider explanations.

Finally, one of your shrinks introduced you to the Chump/Chink/Crank/Chimp/Chunk,

UBT is flummoxed. This must be some text equivalent of flying spittle.

Does the cheater think Chump Lady is an Asian primate? Racial slurs generally only pertain to humans. The cheater will be gratified to learn that Chump Lady is a Methodist of WASPy Midwestern extraction and not Chinese. Cranky? Occasionally. Chump? Recovering. Chunk? Well, I am quite solid, thank you.

a bitter woman who stupidly married (twice!) deceitful men. After receiving the consequences for such stupidity,

UBT: So your greatest insult is that Chump Lady was stupid enough to marry men Just Like You?

She wrote a book designed to condemn all adulterers—without regard to the circumstances.

Because sometimes there is a very good explanation for cheating! Under some circumstances, cheating is perfectly okay. If I said it was “horribly wrong” earlier, well, I didn’t mean always wrong.

By condemning adulterers, Chump Lady argues to leave them. Death by kibble cut-off! The injustice!

She is largely correct

You’ll notice I don’t take issue with a single substantive argument Chump Lady has made, I just insult her.

—but her extreme bitterness leaks through,

UBT: Ah, the bitter card. Bitter is kind of cheater spackle. Chumps say something you don’t want to hear? BITTER! That will cover it up!

The beloved writer and humorist Nora Ephron was recently called “unrelentingly bitter” for writing Heartburn. Chump Lady is flattered to be in such good, embittered company.

and she slanders otherwise good people.

UBT: It’s not slander if it’s true.

Nothing, but nothing in this world is as absolute as she makes them out to be.

Cheating is wrong? That’s an ABSOLUTE. We can’t make these kind of black and white arguments and be taken seriously as a gifted intellectual. We need fuzzy, moral ambiguity and word salad! Obfuscation! I hate clarity and imperative sentence structure! DAMN Chump Lady! Damn her!

The only absolute that I can say about the book is that the author is a cunning, mistaken, foul-mouthed, conniving, bitter, vicious bitch. I don’t give a shit that she was a Watson fellow.

UBT: Chump Lady is not a credit to Thomas J. Watson and his fellowship.

If Chump Lady could do her fellowship over again, she’d travel to southern Africa and study mistaken, foul-mouthed, conniving, bitter, vicious bitches. My guess is they’re probably running the place.

Being smart and accomplished has nothing to do with being a nice person.

UBT: Ain’t that the truth? Being a nice person has everything to do with character.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I am envious of CL; I have always wanted to be called a “cunning, mistaken, foul-mouthed, conniving, bitter, vicious bitch.”

    Can we get that on a CL t-shirt? perhaps with a picture of the bunny?

    Or how about a wine? A Cabernet? After all, they have “Skinny Bitch” and “Iconoclast” and “Three Sisters” wine. Why not “Cunning, Foul-Mouthed, Conniving, Bitter, Vicious Bitch” wine?

      • To be honest, I think that the beer possibilities are better. After all, there’s already sour ale and extra strength bitter ale.

        • ha ha. My cheating ex had a beer he liked that was called “Arrogant Bastard Ale.”

          • haha. I bought the “Arrogant Bastard” beer glasses and gave them to my STBX in his Christmas stocking as a thinly veiled insult. I don’t think he got it…

            • So, the REAL “explanation” as to why he cheated was because he was wearing his “beer goggles”?

          • Haha! Mine too. I fucking introduced him to the brewer at a ‘beer meal’ dinner (stone brewery beers paired with food or cooked with the food.) what did the asshole do?? He took the fat-assed MOW from Orange Cty to the fucking Stone Brewery and THEN….took pictures of the tour and dinner and brews, carefully editing out the MOW, and shared them with me! Fucker.

            Personally, I love me some Raging Bitch from Frederick MD. I’m not bitter. Just freaking pissed off…still.

          • And then there’s “Toss Off” ale for the cheaters–both for what they do to their spouses, and ….. (look up British slang for the second meaning).

            • Yes Tempest! How about a “Bitter” Bitter for the beer/ale folks, and a “Big” red wine (like a Cabernet, Zinfandel, Chianti, Barolo, or Merlot) because of their high tongue-curling tannin content?
              (I worked in a winery in my youth.)
              Possible names? How about Bitter-With-A-Bite, Call me a Cab(ernet), Zen-fandel, Fava Bean Chianti, Bitchin’ Barolo, and Maven Merlot?

              • Boudica R–Fabulous! You are definitely in charge of Marketing if we ever get the Bitch beers/wines business up and running.

        • Ha! On the night my BIL took me out to advise me to divorce his sister, I got shit-faced on several pints of “Raging Bitch” beer! It is brewed by Flying Dog out of Fredrick, MD. Really good beer! But the next day, ouch!

    • i want a shirt too…… can I add vindictive, vengeful, and of course stupid.

            • “Cold hearted bitch”. We’re the words my daughter said her father called me.

            • Ha ha…. when i get my Xhole REALLY pissed off he likes the “C” word…. and I don’t mean “cold hearted”. Last time he raged and spewed that one at me I did it right back to him….should have seen his face!!! LMAO… I doubt if he has ever been called that!! Priceless!!

            • Guys, you keep adding descriptors, the only size the t-shirt can be will be XXXL.

              Kinda like our cheaters’ egos. Just sayin’.

      • My shirt would say “Wicked Bitch of the West,” I heard.

    • Tempest, I always knew you were my kind of a woman!! I, too, would like the T-shirt! An insult from some folks is actually a compliment. If they actually liked you, you should be afraid, very afraid!
      I agree to adding vindictive and vengeful — don’t want to leave out important words like that!

      We could wear it proudly — Once I was a Chump. Then I improved my lot in life and became a . . . “

  • I love how there is always one tiny little nugget of truth spewed out when a lying ass goes on a rant

    “She is largely correct”

    Of course she is 🙂

      • This guy needs his ass handed to him. What a piece of hobo shit.

    • BTW, Tom Watson, recently, shot a sub par round in the Masters. Oldest competitor to have ever done so.
      So, if CL, is a buddy of Tom Watson, she is okay with me (Well, there are rumors that Tom was messing with the wife of another pro, coincidentally , Dennis Watson from South Africa, before her divorce and marriage to Tom. So, maybe you should dissociate yourself from him, CL, until I clear this up.)

      • Oh, and, if this is true about Watson, I feel he is a lesbian ( must ask him how things are in Beirut.)

      • The Watson is after his father, I believe. I met the junior one at the end of the year get together at his summer home in Maine. Nice person as I recall. But what did I know, I was 21 years old.

        I like this Thomas J Watson, Sr. quote!

        Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ‘crackpot’ than the stigma of conformity.
        Thomas J. Watson


      • Tom Watson appears to have traded his wife for one much younger. Greg Norman, don’t get me started on him and Chris Evert. Then Tiger. I don’t like golf anymore.

        • You left out Arnold Palmer and Phil Michelson. But I love LOVE how tiger has deterioted and become nolo contender after cheating on Elin.

        • Oh fuck, Norman. NPD to the max. Andy Mill was his friend. Evert is a piece of shit, too.

  • He “explained” what he did!!! Sheesh! He cheated, no further explaination necessary.
    He hates the book because it was like reading his biography and it ain’t pretty.

    • Yes, he probably explained why he ‘had’ to have an affair. It was really the only solution to whatever was making him unhappy. Honesty, talking to his spouse, filing for divorce…nope, not options. Banging some strange was the only thing he could think of to solve his problems and whoops! Sorry people got hurt!

  • my X says things like, i just wanted things to go back to normal but i wont given him that, then sits and crys about his life and how sorry he is and how much he really does love me, i just laugh at this sad sausage game and next thing he wont talk about sorting the house out and ignores me cause his with the OW, although he still says his not seeing her 9 months later, the chump lady book saved my life and i have read it cover to cover at least once a week to re confirm that am doing good x

    • Saralou1972……that’s is exactly my story, word for word! Jeez Louise these cheater are all the same, entitled, selfish sausages. Thank goodness for CL or I would still be listening to his bullshit!

      • It’s like they all have the same little book and a secret code that only cheaters know about lol am amazed me how many of us on here have similar stories to tell, it’s unbelievable x

  • Cheating’s on God’s top 10 don’t do list, in fact it’s kind of there twice. Don’t covet and don’t cheat. Funny how that works. God sees it as something more than just a slip up, or mistake…there’s even references in the bible to cheaters being condemned to hell. So I’m wondering, when you’re condemned to hell, is it all bets are off at that point? Kind of like the murderer who kills, then decides, well, I’m gonna get the chair, so why not go all the way and kill everyone I can? This guy must just want to double down on his abusive behaviors. Seriously, if you don’t care for CL’s book, just say, I agreed with some of it, but not all, and I just didn’t care for it.

    He’s a nice guy, not a bad apple, but he gets to rant, rave, cover up, blame his wife for being honest with therapists (another cheater trick of course, only tell the therapists a few things, not the actual truth) and play the victim. No wonder she dumped his cheating a&&.

    And really, is it a crime to be bitter anyhow? Not saying Tracy is, but c’mon, if some horrible injustice has befallen you, you would be bitter for a while. And the most bitter people I’ve ever met are cheaters. They can’t handle a single issue without running away or dodging truth and then they get furious because the world isn’t their oyster. Hey, bad stuff happens, and when it does, the Karma bus hits the cheater right where it hurts, their ego. The only good thing about him calling people bitter is at some point, when he’s hurting, his soon to be ex wife can look at him and say, “you sound so bitter.”

    • OMG, yes! He’s such a pot! Calls wife out on being a liar (telling ‘truth’), calls CL foul-mouthed, calls CL bitter, calls her cunning and conniving and calls her out for not learning from the “consequences of her stupidity”. He so needs to look in the mirror.

      • I was thinking the same thing!

        Pot, meet kettle.

        It is said that cheaters project. And that rant is all full of it.

        • It is said that cheaters project….please explain. I’ve never heard that before, but it makes perfect sense!

          • Cheaters project like mad. My ex called me crazy and accused me of all sorts of stuff – most of which were really about him. I got to the point where if he started texting me crap about my ‘faults’ I’d simply answer ‘projection’ and cut off the texts for awhile.

            • For our entire marriage, the ex would go on wild tangents and accuse me of cheating. It wasn’t every day, but if he got a wild hair up his ass, he’d go through all my stuff (including my purse which made me more mad than anything) my cell phone and once he even showed up where I worked and yelled at me like I was 12.

              At first i just thought he was insecure but after while it started to bother me. He never found anything because there wasn’t anything to find.

              The night I found out about his affair I instantly remembered all the times he accused me of cheating and I said as much to him the next day. Along the years a few (smart) people asked me if I thought he might be cheating because it was “a classic cheater move”. I never thought anything of it until that night.

              So yeah, they project all their shitty behavior on you; including cheating I guess. Of course now I’m convinced he was probably cheating our entire marriage.

            • But don’t forget, we project too! We think they have good hearts, that they’re decent people, that they have a conscience and feel guilt or shame about what they’ve done …..

              The big difference, I guess, is that whether it’s us projecting, or them, the cheater usually comes out ahead. Sigh.

            • I had my fair share of projections. I am not Sherlock Holmes, but I did finally figure out that in the worst way he was trying to persuade me to take responsibility for his inadequacies. The coward never admitted any mistakes, absolutely incapable to „man up“ and take responsibility for his shortcomings and mistakes. It drove me crazy seeing him doing shit and the next moment turning around and accusing me of it. Once I had figured the pattern out, I tried really hard not to validate any projection type behavior anymore, knowing there is no truth to what he was saying. I simply would look at him and waited. If one set of projection didn’t work, he would try another one, that was also about him and not me. Mind Blowing

          • It happens to me ALL THE TIME! He is constantly accusing me of doing the exact thing that he is doing. And I’m not talking about anything abstract or subjective here. I’m talking actual, verifiable actions. Like taking the kids to school late. He does it and then accuses me, with sincerity, of doing it (when I haven’t). It’s so infuriating to be faced with that kind of insanity!

            • OMG JBaby! Don’t get me started! ‘The Great I Am’ is a black belt in projection – he could open his own dojo! All through our relationship (way before I D Day) he’d suddenly, out of nowhere it seemed, accuse me of all sorts of stuff I’d be thinking ‘where the hell did that come from’? ‘What in my behaviour or my words have ever led you to believe I would say, do, believe that thing you are accusing me of’? It drove me crazy! I’d heard about projection, had even observed it in the past, but never anything so blatantly mismatched with reality as the stuff that came out of his mouth! I totally agree with you – it was infuriating and absolutely crazy-making!

              • “OMG JBaby! Don’t get me started! ‘The Great I Am’ is a black belt in projection – he could open his own dojo!”


                All through the marriage, I would be accused of doing certain things or meaning certain things or having certain motivations (i.e., coming on to other men, being attracted to other men, being manipulative, etc.) which I knew were not true, and actually better described the behavior of Cheater McDogass (toward other women). I would frequently stop and consider how my behavior or something I said could cause him to think that way. If I felt something I had said or done could have been misinterpreted, I attempted not to say or do it again. He even commented on my clothing, so I began altering my style of dress. All of this was about him being a projecting, controlling, abusive flaming piece of shit from Satan’s hell hound.

                I was flabbergasted when he recently accused me of “lacking empathy.” WTF Asshole! Really? Did you just catch a glimpse of your reflection somewhere?

    • I’m a big defender of “bitter” (as long as it’s not eating the chump up inside). As NWB points out, rage is a proper response to injustice. Hey, in the face of cruelty, do you want to lay down and dissolve into a puddle or go all Braveheart on the offenders?

      Plus, lots of things that are good for you are bitter–broccoli, brussel sprouts, chicory, arugula, tonic water with gin (okay, the last one may not be good for you).

      • Scott, ‘This guy must just want to double down on his abusive behaviors.’ – this line has made me laugh so hard – laughing is such good medicine – thanks. We’ve got to laugh or we are going to cry.

        • adjective, bitterer, bitterest.
          having a harsh, disagreeably acrid taste, like that of aspirin, quinine, wormwood, or aloes.
          producing one of the four basic taste sensations; not sour, sweet, or salt.
          hard to bear; grievous; distressful:
          a bitter sorrow.
          causing pain; piercing; stinging:
          a bitter chill.
          characterized by intense antagonism or hostility:
          bitter hatred.
          hard to admit or accept:
          a bitter lesson.
          resentful or cynical:
          bitter words.

          • Excellent, Magicrain! Chumps get 3, 4, and 6; cheaters do 5 & 7.

      • Tempest – Gin is very good for you when drunk in moderation with tonic and a slice of lemon for extra bitterness…I will sip one tonight as I follow the UK general election as a toast to all my fellow chumps.

        • Mary–I’ll join you! You’ve reminded me that my British mother-in-law always had a lovely gin and tonic before dinner. (Wonderful woman, jackass for a son)

      • Oh no Tempest, we don’t go all Braveheart on people, that ends in a drawing and quartering. We go Jedi Ninja out this way!

      • Let us not forget…. The one definitive reason for divorce in the bible is adultery. I have read that Jesus actually looked at adultery as being one or the worst of the top 10. Because it is a direct attack on LOVE! Me I would rather she put a bullet between my eyes than have a 4 year affair!

        • Yes! Love. Destroying it is a terrible sin. It is what makes us human! Not having it makes our narcs sub-human. They look and act real, but they’re not. It’s all a show.
          I agree. Had I still owned my guns, I would have beat her to the trigger, right between my eyes. The pain was that unbearable. I just wanted it to stop.

          • And Dante puts the betrayers in the ninth circle … The very pit if hell and furthest from God’s light. Betrayal kills the soul.

        • DavidB, I would have preferred honesty. Then I could have had the option to move on with my life. Their selfishness won’t allow a level playing field. They enjoy their dirty game. I overlooked his limitations and tried my best to be supportive. Unfortunately for chumps who are loving and giving the character disordered cannot change. We become contortionist to their illogical thinking and behavior. What I know is they can’t love. Such simplicity and yet they pul it off for years. Let them rage on alone in their distorted reality. Better to leave them to their own destruction. We already took the bullet. The pain and suffering of the discard lessens over time.

        • “i would rather” well I don’t know. I lived with a man imagining I loved him, he was the father of my children, I imagined him to be kind. He made me believe I was horrible. He killed my spirit. I would rather ….in the end….that I’d never met him. I can’t help but believe somehow we were destined, our kids are testiment to that. I would rather….he left when he knew he wS “bored and lonely”…..imagine all the boredom and lonliness that I would have been saved from. I would rather….he had died than gotten that 22 year old pregnant! There is no proof they are happy…..but I hope they aren’t…….and I actually am nearly ok!

        • Yes David, I asked him: couldn’t you and OW just arranged to have me killed? [we lived in South Africa, easy and cheap to do] – it would have hurt less.

    • Well, Scott, some cheaters can even weasel their way out from under God’s golden rules. See, my lifetime catholic ex couldn’t find a successful way around neglecting the commandments, they are pretty straight forward list, after all. They don’t leave much wiggle room. So he fashioned himself a new aged scientific type, after cheating, of course. He began questioning his catholic roots:
      Yes, yes…those commandments are just so strict and unwavering….I think I’ll believe in a purely scientific existence now and exonerate myself from the sin that is infidelity by ceasing my belief in religion. That’ll surely get me off the hook. Of course I’ll still be present at mass for Christmas and Easter and other times where unpolished my image to be present. But outside of that church, I’m a science man.

      That’s one way to get out of the guilt, I suppose. Quiet a balancing act. I figure if they want to live like there’s no consequences then they better be right.

      • Don’t feel bad Jamie, God’s quite a fan of science. I’m sure he’ll have a nice discussion with your cheating ex about that…

        I’m Catholic, didn’t need to renounce my religion because of my ex, and wouldn’t do it anyhow. The sad thing is, all they need to do is confess the sin. The problem is, they don’t want to hear a priest tell them they’ve sinned against God and hurt their spouse horribly. It’s just more running from themselves and not wanting to hear they were wrong.

        • Just like everything else, the Narc is ______ when it serves them.

          When graduating from a prestigious Catholic school looks good on his resume, he’s Catholic.
          When planning a wedding and holding a grand Catholic Mass for his ceremony, he’s Catholic.
          When it’s his year with our daughter for Easter and he can parade her around his childhood congregation, appearing like a devoted father with his priorities straight, he’s Catholic.
          But when it comes to upholding his vows, being an honest man or confessing his sins….he’s void of all religious entrapments. Convenient.

          They have no shame and hold nothing sacred.

          • Exactly TBJ.

            Out of respect for him and his religion I really wanted his priest to participate as our wedding was at my church. And then he turns around and tells me he’s not really Catholic when he wants out.

            Oh, and he hasn’t been to confession in years.

            • Oh, that was the first time in 25 years X went to confession! And then proudly told me about it, and how ashamed of his affair he was, with a little tear in his eye…
              But he never gave her up, and now she was his friend! He still hung with her all the time, and brought her in our house while I was working. Yes, oh so sorry.

      • *I’ll polish my image
        *quite a balancing act


      • Mine just announced that he “wasn’t really a Catholic” right before he walked. Funny, he never mentioned it through all the meetings with his priest and church deacon we had before the wedding so that his priest would participate in the ceremony (I’m Protestant) or at all those masses where he genuflected and crossed himself and received holy communion. And I’m certain he’s still doing so whenever he attends mass. Hypocrite.

    • It bugs me when cheater apologists use adultery being listed twice in the 10 commandments as proof that divorce is viewed as the socially acceptable path when in fact there IS societal pressure for the chump to examine their role, forgive, and reconcile.

      • I agree there is a lot of pressure on chumped spouses to make it work. Too much in fact. Whether it’s Dr. Phil, or the gaggle of websites promoting reconciliation, everyone seems to have a “rule” about when it is or isn’t acceptable to divorce. I thought the rule was if you cheat you broke your vow and you had to eat your consequences. Somehow that has turned into if your spouse cheats, you have to go to counseling, you have to forgive, you have to get over it, and then if your cheater spouse doesn’t stop cheating, then you regretfully should divorce. I tend to be optimistic about this stuff, so I say, when your spouse cheats, leave, go live life, rediscover yourself, and if you want to, find someone that has actual values and morals and not some sex starved maniac. If anything, state laws are too forgiving of the cheater and allow way too much leniency in the way cheaters are treated by the court. The court looks at divorce purely as division of assets in most cases. If you want to stop cheating, want to reduce divorce rates, then make divorce painful for the OFFENDER of the vows, not those that kept their vows. You beat your wife, you get nothing and pay for a long time. You cheat on your husband, you hit the streets with nothing but your new boyfriend. Simple stuff.

        • I agree with everything you say here Scott! I admire the courage and conviction of your words and wished more people would think this way. Like you, I wished our courts had higher standards for human beings.

          • I whole heartedly agree with Scott also. I divorced my cheater after giving him plenty of time to consider what he was doing and the consequences he would surely face if I divorced him! For some odd reason, he thought he was “in control” and he would be able to get the judge and lawyers to see he was being really generous to me! OMG, nothing could have been further from the truth! He would also invoke God in texts to the MOW, such as “God is guiding us”, “God is testing our love and patience.” Pure vomit worthy crap! Well, in the end if God was really in control then he found out how angry he was with these cheaters because he ended up losing nearly everything he had worked for all during our marriage. I guess God felt I needed it more than his new squeeze! A 60 year old fool who is now broke, but still heading towards that brick wall at warp speed! It’s actually funny to me because the HO has to support the old fart now!

    • Yeah, my ex was pretty pissed off when I told the therapist the whole story, not just the sanitised version he was peddling. He was even more pissed when I told my friends (once I figured out I had nothing to be embarrassed about). Poor sausage really didn’t like me being honest with people.

    • “Cheating’s on God’s top 10 don’t do list, in fact it’s kind of there twice. Don’t covet and don’t cheat.”
      This never caused an issue for my cheating ex, and he bases nearly his entire facade on being a “good Christian.” He simply “forgave himself” every time he banged another man in the gay bath house, and once he started banging married women as well, then he forgave himself because the real problem was that I am not Christian, and he needed a Christian woman to take to church.

      • Glad, you nailed it. One of the most frustrating things about being religious is seeing the narcissistic scum of the earth pervert faith for their own uses. These jesus cheaters are so great at telling everyone, “I broke the word of God, but God forgave me”. I call Bullshit. Seriously, what an arrogance to believe God stopped what he was doing and picked them out of the 5 billion plus suffering souls, blessed them, fixed them, forgave them, but conveniently washed his hands of their victims by allowing them to suffer horrors, anger, frustration, loss, and grief.

        Right. God did that for them. *scoff* Don’t think so.

        What God did was put a path in front of them, and they chose to swim in the sewer with the rest of the rats.

        Then God looked at them and said, “Hey! Have a good swim.”

        • Amen! I think my STBX believes that God brought the OW into his life because she is his true love and they will be together forever. He made a choice that had nothing to do with God and everything to do with being selfish. Cheaters will say anything to justify their actions and help themselves sleep better at night.

          • Yep, God is a convenience for them. They use Him when it works them. God is about real (agape) love and they are NEVER going to get this. It is the type of “Christian” that gives real Christians a bad name.

          • My ex told me and others that God had brought the OW into his life in answer to his prayers that he no longer have gay urges. Um, yeah dude, whatever you say. No surprise, that OW is long gone from his life and he (as far as I can tell) is even gayer than ever, but still denying it. Oh well, no longer my monkey or my circus.

    • I doubt too many cheaters are terribly worried about God’s top ten list. Most see themselves as God.

      • You’ll like this one, Arnold: What’s the difference between God and a narcissist?
        God doesn’t think he’s a narcissist.

      • Lol! Oh Arnold…

        When people used to ask me WHY I was divorcing my late husband, I told them that we are divorcing because of ‘religious differences’.

        I then went on to say, “Late husband thought he was God. *I* didn’t agree”!

    • This is apropos Scott’s comment about cheating involving 2 of the 10 Commandments, Thou Shalt Not Covet and Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery. I would include Thou Shalt Not Lie. That’s 3.

      • Actually it is “not bear false witness” but I think that means don’t lie. And I would also consider “Thou Shall Have No Other Gods Before Me” as one that narcissists break every day.

  • I am dismayed that shouting “Bitch” is this guy’s response for a difference of opinion. Or that you must be a lesbian because you are bitter, as if either is a bad thing.

    Misogyny is another marker for these narcissists.

  • Oh, I’m dying of laughter here! My poor tree-pollen soaked lungs may never recover.

    And dontcha just kinda love how you manage to rile up these disordered folks so much that their masks slip? There is a certain satisfaction in that.

    • LOL! StrongerEveryday, your joyfulness is showing! I love that the disordered just don’t get it! And it’s funny to look back on all they did and know that we can move forward. Yeah, my heart still hurts but I am moving forward, bitter bitch that I am.

      • Wow, Drew–that feels like such a great compliment! Thank you. We bitter bitches need to stick together. 🙂

          • The Bitter Bitches Club. Gotta love it. Can I run for president? I promise gin and tonics at every meeting!

            • I think “Bitter Bitches” condenses it down to the essence (and will fit on a S or M t-shirt).

              Her Blondeness-you have my vote for the presidency (but I’ll fight you for Spock).

              • My T-shirt will have to be size xlarge, cause I’m Fat and Lazy, you know. My two main flaws, and only one of them is true. Course the person who told me that possesses both flaws himself. ..

              • I have always wanted to join a Bitter Bitch club. It is very daunting being a Bitter Bitch all by yourself. Having Bitter Bitch compatriots – as part of a club no less! – is a truly wonderful gift. I will bring food to enjoy with the drinks. 🙂

                Bitter B(eing) I(n) T(otal) C(ontrol) of H(erself).

          • Yayyyyyy!! I’ll join as long as there is no hazing! lol And I love Gin and Tonics! Bitter Bitches Unite!!!

            • Add me to the bitter bitch club! My ex loved calling me that! I always told him, “you say that like its a bad thing, you bet I’m a bitch and you’ll see just how smart this bitch is! ” he can call me whatever he pleases now, just don’t forget to pay me my alimony and half of your military retirement asshole!

              • Oh and P.S., guess who is my bitch now? He’ll work for me till he falls into the grave!

              • Roberta: “Oh and P.S., guess who is my bitch now?”

                lol! You are an inspiration to chomped people everywhere!

              • chumped (though there are days when chomped feels appropriate too)

  • The guy who wrote that letter? Asshole! The truth smacked him right in the balls! Bang, boom, out of the park. So just like my asshole line up the defense and hit the truth tellers hard as you can. Why? Cause they are right! And so is chump lady. This place has saved my sanity and helped make me stronger. Mine lied, cheated and left. His life is not good right now. ha!!! I would have felt so much better if he had simply respected me enough to tell the truth! But no! Hurting your wife of thirty years is so much more fun! The letter writer and people like him are low life scum their brains just ain’t right.

    • “Reverting to name-calling suggests you are defensive and therefore find my objections valid.” – Spock in Star Trek Into Darkness

  • “Being smart and accomplished has nothing to do with being a nice person.”

    It’s hysterical for a lying cheater to talk about what it is to be nice.


    Pissed & Powerful Amazon Warrior With Bouts of Rage & Bitterness

    • And we should all aspire to be nice. Because ‘nice’ got us so far in our marriages with these D-bags.

      • There is a huge difference between being “nice” and being KIND. There’s also a difference between being “nice” and being RESPECTFUL.

        We can be a$$holes and still be kind and/or respectful.

        Cheaters are neither.

    • ML–my heart sings that you are calling yourself a Powerful Amazon Warrior!

  • There’s something I’ve noted about cheaters. Their consciences do ‘irritate’ them from time to time – I guess because they try to keep them suppressed. So they will tell truth – to soothe the conscience – but in a way that you won’t benefit from it. That truth will be followed by obfuscation, a lie, or an accusation. A cheater’s burden is not to tell the truth – it is to win at all costs.

    This ‘truth-followed-by-lie’ dynamic was done twice in the letter.
    (1) “I have examined what I did, and admitted that I was horribly wrong.” quickly followed by “My words fell on deaf ears. I tried to explain…”
    (2) “[Chumplady] is largely correct” quickly followed by “…but her extreme bitterness leaks through…”

    A cheater will dangle truth in front of a chump, like a carrot on a stick. The thing that makes us chumps is that we believe that truth will be followed by more truth (this is a healthy expectation, btw). In our heart of hearts, when we hear truth from a cheater, we hope that it will lead to more truth.

    But alas… looking out for truth from a cheater is like looking through a front-loading washing machine for that small dark item of clothing that got mixed in with the whites by mistake. You’ll see it briefly… but it will quickly disappear. If you value your sanity, take out the ‘item’, or leave the washroom.

    • I don’t think it’s “conscience” at all; I think it’s that they are irritated by consequences so they cycle through a list of strategies, one of which resembles “truth” telling. If that doesn’t work, they go back to what they really think and start hurling the insults.

      • “Conscience” may not be the right term. I do agree that truth-telling is used as part of the cheater’s arsenal – namely the “carrot-on-a-stick”/bait-and-switch tactic.

      • Yes Tempest… cycling through strategies. I’ve seen this over and over. It was rather disorienting at first, but now that I realize what’s going on I can see the manipulation and lack of conscience.

      • its the whole “trickle truth” thing….they tell you just a little of the truth to keep you holding on but it is NEVER the whole truth, or the absolute truth. usually whatever little truth they tell you is something you already found out or knew in the first place. so after the “fess up” to what you already knew as the truth, then they continue to lie to hide the shit you dont know or they twist the rest of it so you cant figure out what the fuck is going on.

        • Don’t you know those are “white lies”, not real lies. At least that’s what the liar told me.

      • Cheaters hate it when confronted with being labeled. Following DDay I made the mistake of confronting him with the fact that my therapist said he was disordered and a narcissist. The rage that followed was unimaginable. When his mask came off everything finally fit. X didn’t have a conscience. His entire existence was based on entitlement. His BP mother always told him to do what made him happy regardless of the fall out. The lies are second nature and I never knew he gained pleasure in telling me the details of his cheating until the final discard. He left phone numbers, names, hotel receipts over the previous year, poems, and gifts in full view for me to find. He took pleasure in bragging about his girlfriends and how much he ENJOYED picking up women. He was meeting up with women on craigs list and getting hotel rooms weekly for years. And all if this was summed up in typical narc style–I didn’t give him affection. Yes he’s a psychopath. Bitter bitch, hell yeah.

        • Yep. Was awakened from a sound sleep and regaled with a detailed description of one guy’s physique. Fuck in sadist.

  • Okay, so either of the posts from the last two days could have been written by me in regards to my ex. This one too –> “Meanwhile, you gave your version of the truth to your shrinks, who of course had to believe you”
    He told me that he ‘didn’t care what my shrink thought of course I only told her my side of the story…wasn’t honest’ etc. Meanwhile a year later (yes, you read that correctly, he stalked and harassed me for AN ENTIRE YEAR after we split (no marriage, no kids, just an asshole)) he told me the same thing: ‘my shrink thinks you are [FILLINTHEBLANK]’. So I’m supposed to believe he was honest with his shrink when he didn’t believe the same about mine??

    Do as I say not as I do. That is their motto. Lucky for me I just walked out. I told him I’d call the cops on him if he ever contacted me again and that seems to have worked for the last 4 months. But I’ve got a killer DV counselor up my sleeve who will go ‘pitbull’ on him should he ever contact me again. This is how I am mighty (missed that post a few months back). 😀

    • HM, when my ex started threatening to kill himself I called his therapist because it scared me at the time. I didn’t realize it was a control tactic. After I talked to her, ex said he couldn’t see her anymore because she had talked to me and wasn’t trustworthy…you can’t make this shit up.

      • I married my first husband at 21 because he attempted suicide. Young chump I was.

    • exhole said that he wanted to “tell the kids” so that they got “both sides of the story”……is there another story about how you cheated, lied, betrayed, broke your vows and did not support the family?

      to this day, i have NO IDEA what “his” side of the story could possibly be. he never did talk to the kids. i know he has “forgotten” or “rewrote” a lot of our history together. he even admitted to only thinking of the bad shit i did and purposely forgetting the good shit…..

      it doesnt bother me anymore because the people he is telling HIS side of the story to, i dont care about and try not to associate with. and the people i do care what they think of me, do not talk to him. so it is all good.

  • The excuses they give will never make up for what they did. It seriously only makes it worse. According to my Stbxh I was sexless, boring, and only thought of our three young kids. Of course He needed to feel wanted and he was very lonely. Sounds good right? Makes sense that could be a serial cheater. I drove him to it!!

    Never mind that if I was doing EVERYTHING! I worked, did all the dishes and laundry. Was nursing and potty training when the first affair with my best friend happened. I have never had any family around to help or his sorry ass either. I was exhausted!! He did nothing to help me. So his excuses above are so very fucking insulting!! Not to mention a very warped sense of “truth”.

    Going into Mother’s Day weekend only 4 months from D Day the irony that he wants to take me to dinner with the kids. Impression management?? Also 3 years ago on the eve of Mother’s Day I found out that he hooked up with another mom from a fundraiser in the back of our car.

    Here is the TRUTH… He was a shitty husband with or without the affairs. I was keeping our marriage together for the kids and for the hope that one day we could make it work because (silly me) I Believed in marriage! I made excuses for his behavior, his gambling, his laziness. Now that I know that he cheating too…I had to step out the fog and realize that I would rather be alone then live like this the rest of my life like this. Now how is that for the truth!!

    • “According to my Stbxh I was sexless, boring, and only thought of our three young kids. Of course He needed to feel wanted and he was very lonely. Sounds good right?”

      THEN WHY THE F**K DIDN’T HE JUST L-E-A-V-E if you were so “bad” ???????????

      I think my head just spun all the way around….

      • I asked my STBX why he didn’t just leave if he was so unhappy with me, if I was so bad? Was he waiting for someone better to along’ waiting until I turmed 40, so I would feel even worse about myself? He just looked at me dumbfounded and said he didn’t know. When things get uncomfortable, that is his stock answer, I don’t know.

        • I want to scream every time I hear “I don’t know” or ” I don’t know what I want”!! Aaggghhh!!!! Well I did know what I wanted and still do. And i dont want him in my life in any form ever again. 58 years old in a 5 year old body. Unreal!

        • George Simon talks about the, “I don’t know” line in his books. In the covert aggressives it’s obfuscation. They know EXACTLY what they are doing. It’s another example of gaslighting behaviour

      • That’s always the question I come back to. If it was so bad, if the marriage had ‘been crumbling for years’ then why stick around? Oh, because he liked having side pieces and a dumbass at home who was clueless. No wonder my ex remains pissed. He lost his easy to handle wife and now has a young thing on his arm who keeps him on an extremely short leash.

      • I asked my serial cheating Ex why he didn’t just leave all those many years ago he was supposedly miserably unhappy and he said, “You needed me to take care of you! I couldn’t leave you!” but he could cheat on me with three different women. Reality was and is that HE needed ME to take care of HIM. He cannot support himself and that is why he lives with OW now. What a joke.

      • My daughter and I were talking the other day and she said to me, If Dad is so obsessed with the OW calling her twice a day almost every day why is he still here? Good question darling, but let me explain to you, despite me neglecting his precious needs so callously, he feels quite provided for and has a nice little nest made in our home. He sure is thriving on getting whipped cream on top of his cake from someone that is way too far away to be a realistic relationship. No real intimacy needed, no responsibility needed just pure joy and fantasy and some sexting here and there. Wow must be nice to be able to fool yourself and enjoy the little bonbons every day, or maybe he is smarter than I think he is and knows that they would never survive if they would share fucking responsibilities. Time for me to get my ducks lined up, I am almost there the last two ducks are heading into position. Swim little faster ducky, ducky, ducky…

    • Leolion – your story sounds very similar to mine. And yes a very ‘warped sense of “TRUTH”‘ is a very good description… And I too resinate with your statement “He was a shitty husband with or without the affairs.” My stbx is not only a cheater, a liar, and a theif, but an alcoholic as well. I have shielded my kids from many of their father’s ‘craziness,’ so they really don’t have a handle on the situation at hand. It is sad that my kids have such a loser for a father and they don’t see it …… YET!

    • Sounds so familiar. Mine also said I was boring and sexless.. didn’t wear high heels, all of a sudden obsessed with his looks. All the signs are there. So funny how they use the same language.

      • I did wear high heels and the MFer still stepped out on me…repeatedly. It’s their nature.

    • That sounds like my STBX, his excuses to me were similar, I didn’t like sex, I did to much for the kids, I didn’t appreciate him, he hadn’t loved me in a long time, I didn’t make him feel like a big strong man, etc! Never mind that I did everything for the kids, ages 13,11,7 & 3, cooked, did laundry, house cleaning, usually on only a few hours of sleep because my 3 year old did not sleep and still doesn’t sleep very much. Never mind that I kept the kids quiet so he could rest and made excuses about why he couldn’t be at their events. Never mind that I worked two jobs several years ago, when my older kids were small, so he could go back to school full time, I never did anything for him. He cheated on me two years ago and told me he would never do it again, I took him back. He didn’t do anything to make me want to trust him again, he never wore his wedding ring again, never said he loved me, never said he appreciated me. Guess he was just biding his time with me till he found a much younger, better replacement, who is the best thing that ever happened to him, appreciates everything about him, loves everything about him, can’t wait to marry him, etc. Gag!

      • TossedAway, your life paralleled mine. There will never be another person that can replace you because you take responsibility for the important aspects of your life. You are loving and kind. You may not realize this now because of the painful discard, but you are strong. Put your energy into yourself and use your anger to make him pay. Believe he is an asshole and have minimal contact. I was strong when my children were young and he cheated. There was no one for me to turn to for support. I danced and danced, ate shit sandwiches, sparkled the fuck out if him and repeatedly reconciled. YOU DESERVE BETTER!!! Your experience touched me because here we are with Chump Nation and my biggest regret in life was wasting it on someone who never respected his family.
        You will live better and your children will be better off without the disordered.

        • Thank you for your words of encouragement, Donna! I was mired in pain and self loathing when I found out about his latest affair. I stumbled onto CL’s blog and it has helped me so much. I am part of a large club of chumps, and although I didn’t want to be part of this club and would not wish the pain and humiliation on anyone else, it helps to know that I am not alone. Everyone here has helped me realize that I will be ok, my kids will be ok, and we do deserve better! I still have bad days, where I feel depressed and worthless, but they are definitely getting farther apart.

          • TossedAway, now you can redefine yourself. That pain comes and goes. And you are still taking care of your children and their emotional needs. Know this was not your fault. I needed medication for the depression and found a great therapist that understood narc relationships. The discard is unacceptable and cruel. Don’t doubt yourself. I had one friend that was very supportive. It’s been a year now and life is brighter without a cheater.

      • tossedaway–He treats you that way and then wonders why you aren’t enthused about having sex with him. I hope someday you are ready to change your name here to MightyMotherof4.

        • I always wondered how he expected me to want sex with zero romance. Of course he is all romance all the time with his latest OW. It amazes me how cheaters will put so much effort into new relationships and just throw the old ones away. Assholes!

          • Same here tossed away. I got go get cleaned up for our sat night sex. Pried himself away from TV long enough for quickie then right back to TV. No romance no nothing. And ain’t it funny how he cleaned up really nice for ow. Everything I tried to encourage him to do for years. Bah! He’s not happy in his new life aw poor baby! Hardest part for me is how they throw away their own kids and sister ignores them unless its convenient for him but is all up in her family and her two daughters. So very very sad.

        • It’s tough, Arnold, when you describe yourself as a Brad Pitt body-double earlier this week, and then force us to picture you in fishnet stockings & high heels. (bites hand)

    • Leolion. you just told my story too. change 3 kids to 5, change mothers day to thanksgiving and change gambling to alcoholic…..

      he cheated on me before, i forgave him, in fact i washed it under the bridge, never brought it up, never threw it in his face, forgot it so well that it completely shocked me when it happened again. but that was the ONLY thing that he could have done to make me well…done. i could go thru that over and over. now i have no IDEA what he thinks the story is. i have no clue the reasons he was doing what he was doing, he was pushing me away all 2013, he hooked up with MOW around OCT. i would have stood by his side for everything else BUT the cheating.

      the monster he became after the divorce, after he figured out i was NOT “fighting” for him was a man i never seen in all the 14 years we were together. the hate, the cruelty, the evilness….shocks me.

      the truth is “he was a shitty husband…with or without the cheating” but it was the cheating that was the last straw. now i am FREE…..i have my TRUTH and i can live with myself. i feel like God was directing me to a better life. it all happened so fast, it all happened so out of my control, there MUST be a reason for it.

      i am in a better place now

  • “The only good thing about him calling people bitter is at some point, when he’s hurting, his soon to be ex wife can look at him and say, “you sound so bitter.””

    Scott, I was thinking the same thing as I was reading his–*ahem*–response. He sounds positively BITTER!

    Project much, dude?

    Every time I read/hear a cheater like this (and most of them ARE like this!), I keep thinking how THEY would respond if the shoe was on the other foot. In some cases, I’ve read that the cheater would smugly approach the situation ‘logically’…

    …until it actually happens. Suddenly, in one fell swoop, all that ‘logic’ goes out the window.

    If only we would ALL practice the Golden Rule…

  • “After receiving the consequences for such stupidity”
    This one statement proves he has not amended that which is broken.
    Poor fucker still believes someone can deserve such an intimate betrayal.

  • Chump Lady’s book and blog (though obviously not pro-reconciliation) offers the most sound advice out there for how truly remorseful cheaters (few though they may be in the wild) can try make amends to their spouse: Confess all, take polygraph, view reconciliation as a gift and not an entitlement, welcome scrutiny, sign a post-nup, and most importantly of all, STOP CHEATING!

    What do all these things have in common: They are ACTIONS not WORDS.

    I’m sure you figured this out already, Suzy, but judging by that letter, all your ex offered you were WORDS (or, more specifically, EXCUSES). You are very fortunate that you were able to find therapists that were actually interested in helping you, rather than raking in thousands of dollars over the course of many years while you slogged through false R with this asshole

  • Why do these losers always want to convince you they are “Good People”? Pretty is as pretty does, losers.

    • That’s my STBX. He just wants someone to think he’s a “good guy”…um, you cheated on your wife and ran out on your kids. Who in their right mind would think you were a “good guy?!?!”

      • You’d think, right, Moose. He apparently was able to convince the OWhore that he was a Good Person by some miracle. He spent a significant amount of time and effort demonstrating that he was a Good Person and a Good Father. I’m not sure which one if then was more delusional, him for saying or her for listening to it. I’m the only bad person in the scenario.

        • that is what i was going to say…

          SHE thinks he is a great guy. i am not sure which one if them is more delusional. they both are ghetto rats, so their idea of “great” and “good” are waaAAAaayy different then mine.

          • MrsVain,yes the fucked up see good in one another. They are both delusional!! She has a history of mental illness and my children fear for his safety as he is seeing someone. It’s all great and good now that we are clear of the fallout.

      • Same here. My ex hates that his good guy image has been shattered and of course, this is all my fault because I actually had the nerve to tell people he was a serial cheater. Poor dude, how ever will he repair his reputation? By finding new chumps!

        • Oh if I had a nickel for every time I heard, “I’m not a bad person…” at the beginning of a sentence. Or the famous, “It wasn’t all bad (during the affair)”…to of course justify dating someone when you’re married. Why not just say, “Hey, just because we sat together and watched a movie or went for a ride in his car doesn’t mean we had sex.”

          But the cheaters again miss the point. Part of the betrayal is the time, energy, focus, effort, and attention put into the AP…but trying to explain that, in a few sentences, might as well be teaching philosophy in arabic to a cheater. They only hear what they want, when they want. Part of the narcissism.

          • Yes he always said he was a simple guy. He simply screwed around and lied.

            • I wish the OW could smell his penetrant socks, see his shitted underwear and smell his foul farts after drinking beer and eating too much processed cheese, oh and of course try to get some sleep at night listening to his wall shaking snores with the gasping of air, nice little rhythms going honey. I think I make a precious little video for her so she gets to know that gem of a cheater bastard better – Bahaaahaaaa

  • My UBT parses the Poor Sausage rant as follows:

    I went through the entire playbook to keep you in the FOG. I even gaslighted you by telling you that I was Wrong–God! Do you know how hard that was for me?–as a way to keep the kibble coming. Now I’m playing the “You Owe Me Forgivness” card, with a side-dish of rage. The ad hominem attacks on Chump Lady are part of the Pick Me Dance invitation. After all, not only do you owe me reconciliation, but you also need to reconcile lest you become some “cunning, mistaken, foul-mouthed, conniving, bitter, vicious bitch.”

    Of course, the really funny thing is how he blames the victim–and thereby reveals himself. Remember how he says that Chump Lady stupidly married (twice!) deceitful men? Well, he goes on to say that she received the consequences for such stupidity..

    So, here’s the deal. If you’re so stupid that you married a cheater, you deserve to be cheated on. But if you leave your cheater, and refuse to do the Pick Me Dance or reconcile with his/her Poor Sausage pinings, then you are a “cunning, mistaken, foul-mouthed, conniving, bitter, vicious bitch” (male chumps will have to insert the appropriate gender slur–“bastard” doesn’t seem to fit).

    That’s all clear now. 🙂

    • yeah, not sure of a good male replacement, maybe blame the mom for raising a son with good character?

      … bitter, vicious son-of-a-bitch…

      dickhead? m####r-f####r? (hmm again the mom-angle?)

      • Mine has mommy issues. Really. He sent his schmoopie a picture of his mother, saying, “I miss my mother. She would tell me what to do.” I could hear his little “I’m so lost and confused. I need my mommy” voice.

        The man is in his mid-50s. His mother has been dead for about 7-8 years.

        On the other hand, his father cheated on his mother, and now the son is following his father’s footsteps.

        There is all sorts of weird and creepy going on, especially if I think about how OW bears some sorts of physical resemblance to his mother (red hair, though his mother’s was chestnut, long face, and a heavy build)…

        • oooh kb – Patsy posted a link below that really addresses what you’ve written here – you should go read it, if you haven’t done already! 🙂

    • Kb you unmasked it! It almost got by me too. The “she got what she deserved” comment about CL was telling indeed, but you cut through like a laser when you point out the logical conclusion that if Susie gives him another chance, then she’ll get the same (undeserved) betrayal. Good one!
      They really can’t hide what they are, no matter how hard they try.

  • A-hole writes: “the explanations were never good enough.”

    Truer words were never spoken.

    After crickets, the best response I could come up with would be:

    That’s right.

    The explanations were never good enough to make it a sane and responsible choice for me to trust you again.

    The explanations were never good enough to stop your children from crying through the night.
    The explanations were never good enough to relieve me of the need to get STD testing after 22 years of monogamy.
    The explanations were never good enough to make it unnecessary to paternity test my children.
    The explanations were never good enough to put our finances back where they were before the separation, the two households, the money you spent pretending to be young and free.
    The explanations were never good enough to erase the memories of all those “explanations” you gave me for where you were so many nights and why you couldn’t answer your phone.
    The explanations were never good enough to make your family whole and healthy and a safe place to be.

    Explanations are just words. And words mean nothing compared to actions. And your actions? Your actions sucked.

    So, yeah. It’s true. “The explanations were never good enough.”

    • love this!!!!

      it is a much better way to see it when you put it like that…….The explanations REALLY are never good enough”…..i keep referring to the “i’m sorry” wasnt good enough.

    • Nomar, there’s no explanation other than actions speak louder than words. However, his words in this case matched his actions. Together his words and actions demonstrate his abusive core. I am still amazed how they can take on the appearance of ‘normalcy’ within a relationship, have children, and maintain a double life. I never knew the depth and breadth of his deceit. There are no words to express the horror associated with living a lie. The day we see them for what they are is the very first day we can live an honest life without the disordered.

  • Ad Hominen (to the man). The fallacy of reasoning where you attack the person and not the argument to discredit it. They call it an error in reasoning as it is sloppy thinking. As CL pointed out, he even admits that CL is “largely correct.” He just can’t handle the truth. And yes, the truth is not as subjective as he would like us to believe.

  • Ahhh yes, “your version of the truth”. One of my all time favorite lines from the cheater handbook. That’s a real gem.

    How about this?
    My “version” of the truth is: you went outside your marriage and had a relationship with another person.

    That doesn’t sound much like a version, it’s sounds like the damn facts.

    • My ex is also about “versions of the truth.” My version, of course, he considers wrong and no doubt bitter. His version has changed several times over the years. Currently, his version has completely erased all the cheating from the equation, and says that our marriage ended because he was very depressed (believe me, no he was not) and becoming an actor was what he needed to end the depression.

      • If we could all rewrite history, imagine how splendidly we could paint ourselves after the fact. ~Narc delusional theories


      • i dont have a clue what HIS version of the story is because he never told me. not that i didnt try. i talked and asked and retalked and reasked. the whole 2013 year long as he continued to do things that would push me away. until he found the ghetto rat he is with now who was strong enough to “help” him out of his marriage. it was HER who called me and told me that “he just doesnt want you anymore”…..huh well that is news to me.

        my reasons are simple, i divorced him because he was with HER. i have yet to hear what his reason is. i am not even going to ask him. i found out that HIS story is always different then MY story. i learned this 9 years ago when my eldest daughter reached out to her bio dad. my story for all her life was that we really loved each other but were just to young and immature to make a relationship work. she found out that HIS story was we were just fuck buddies….. i was delusional for over 22 years about that relationship apparently. i wish i never found out what HIS version was…i liked my version much better.

        so this time around. i will keep MY version and i am not open to listen to HIS version. he can keep that to himself. thank you very much. i have no problem sleeping at night.

        • Valuable perspective, Mrs.Vain. I’ll keep my version of the truth, too: he lied, he went outside our marriage, I was done being treated like a sack of shit and I deserve much better. That about sums it up.

    • Instead of “your version of the truth” I got “your twisted truth” and “Why would I lie to you I have zero!! to gain!! 🙁 I’m sorry” “You treat me like garbage!!! BS” and the longest text “The stuff you made up about me is pure garbage !!! speculation !! It’s just awful what you’ve done to me !! And now us!!! It’s just terrible!!!! And sad!!!!” That’s some texts he was sending to me till I blocked his ASS.

  • “Hey, it’s narcissistic rage week here at Chump Lady!”

    A lot like Shark Week on the Discovery Channel!

    You know the difference between sharks and narcissists, don’t you? One is a ruthless, monstrous, dangerous, insatiable predator that devours everything in its path without conscience or remorse, and the other is a fish that swims in the ocean.

  • Does anyone else see that the “bitter” card is always played against the Chump who “got wise?” I think bitter is just a synonym for “smarter/wiser” in cheater-speak. “He/She won’t fall for my lines of cheater reasoning anymore! Calls me as he/she sees it! Has taken control of his/her life and it doesn’t include ME! BITTER!!!!!!!!!”

    • I never got “bitter” from XH because I went NC with him right away. But I’ll bet it’s said a lot about me by ex-friends & in-laws.

    • Well, this vicious bitch right here was bitter AND vindictive.

      So there, mm-hm.

      That must really suck for a cheater, when the chump is all bitter. Bitter kibbles: no fun. Sad sausage.

      • Bitter is nothing more than code for “my spouse stood up and decided he/she was nottaking my shit anymore.

        • Add to this “he/she is no longer sugar coating my shit and has no problems telling the truth about what I’ve done.”


          • A long time ago, there was a gay activist who claimed the pejorative “faggot”. He maintained that if he used it, made it his and proudly copped to it, the pejorative lost its power. Based on this, I claimed “bitter ex wife” back in, oh, 2004 after Cheater #1 pulled his stunts. I also claimed bitch a long time ago too. Amazing how it takes the wind out of their sails when you agree with them.

            Or, if you’re not ready for the harsh labeling, you could just try the tactic of my mother’s genteel southern belle friend, who would smile sweetly and say, “Takes one to know one”. Sorta different take on bless your heart.

        • Bitter

          Best Damn thing about you was ME
          Integrity in ALL aspects of my life
          Truthteller, Truth hurts doesn’t it, buddy
          Time not wasted on you, your disorder or your shit
          Ethical, Yup always, helpful, sweet, kind, hardworking, loving, understanding, empathetic too.
          Rewarding is life you without a disordered POS.

    • I was told I was ‘conniving’ because, you know, I found out when he left his Skype bubble up and discovered they had just fucked on her bday 8 hours before. I was conniving because I googled the clown.

      I call that Transference. His 17 yrs of lies and deceit xfered onto me, or his attempt to do that. Coward.

    • “Bitter” just means “you see through my mask and won’t pretend or spackle.”

  • Ahh, the myth of the good cheater – the exception that proves the rule. Of course cheating is wrong in general, when done by others, when done by YOU, without my special and unique set of circumstances.
    I am a good person to whom the rules should not apply as:
    You drove me to it
    I truly met my soulmate
    You were wrong to snoop and spy and ask difficult questions
    I felt inadequate and needed an ego boost
    The AP started it
    It was never planned and just happened
    It was about to end
    It meant nothing
    I needed happiness
    I said sorry
    Its not worth blowing up our lives for
    We could put it behind us but for your bitter and unforgiving attitude

    • Mary,

      Did you interview my cheater stbxw?

      I will say, she is very very good at asking those questions in ways that put me on the defensive. Then I’ll catch myself again and realize “Wait – she’s trying to force me to take responsibility and to demonstrate trustworthiness” She’s real slick, effective user of tears, “remorse”, guilt, and drama. She believes her own lies, so I can’t tell if she’s acting/manipulating or really believes her crap.

      The silver lining of notes like received by the OP, Suzy, is that the cheater wears their crazy on their sleeve so it lessens the mindfuckery a tad.

      Some cheaters are much more conniving and much more effective at manipulating and inducing guilt.

      • I think that most cheaters do the conniving manipulation and guild induction, UNTIL it stops working. Then the rage comes out! They’ll still try the charm, self-pity, manipulation and conniving sometimes, to see if it’s working again ….

        • KarenE, that is good wisdom which I’ll take to heart in these final days. I’ll heed that as a warning.

    • You got it, Mary!

      My ex-wife definitely had the “good cheater” syndrome. She couldn’t even call it cheating…or an affair. It was different / special / “real.”

      In fact, I heard “real” from her several times, which I guess was meant to convey some sort of authenticity to her feelings for her AP. Apparently, she thought that “bad cheaters” don’t actually have feelings for their AP. So, she was different, and special.


      Being so poorly capable of defining boundaries with your coworker that you develop “real” feelings for him doesn’t make you better than other cheaters. It makes you the same as other cheaters. It also makes you quite unprofessional, IMO.

      • Did you hear, “but he’s my soul mate” or “it was a mistake for us to marry?”

        Being unable to maintain boundaries and unable to control your passions doesn’t make you human, it makes you an animal. Just one step from doing one another in a pen at the zoo for all to watch.

        Sorry to all the animals who are now insulted by my comparison.

        • Ha! Good point, uniballer

          No, my ex didn’t ever say that her AP was her soul mate. Instead, she said her connection with him should be “supplemental” to our marriage. She maintained that what she and I had was “most important,”…just not important enough to be faithful to it.

          I’m the one who had to accept that it was a mistake for us to marry. She’d openly stated that she had cheated on previous boyfriends. I thought it would be different because marriage is…you know…a big f***ing deal.

          My bad.

        • Did you hear, “but he’s my soul mate” or “it was a mistake for us to marry?”

          I was told both of those things over and over and over. Funny, right up until Dday he always said how happy he was, that I was his best friend and he would never want to divorce me.

          • I heard “she’s my soulmate” and “we were too young to get married” and “the vows don’t count” when you’re so young. When I see it written down it is stupider than it sounded at the time!
            They are so delusional… It’s like arguing with a schizophrenic about whether the voices they hear are male or female. NC was my sanity back!

        • “Being unable to maintain boundaries and unable to control your passions doesn’t make you human, it makes you an animal”

          Unable or un-WILLING? Apparently, exercising self-control is ‘unnatural’ to these cheaters, so it shouldn’t be expected of them.

          Yet, they seem to expect US to have self-control.

          Go figure.

    • dont forget the “you were accusing me of it anyways so i might as well do it”

      or was i the only one that got that one?

      • Nope mrsvain. I got that one too, on top of the litany of my many other faults and his justifications. Damn I never thought of myself as a badass b*tch. But I guess that is what I am if I can tell him what to do and then make him do it. Poor sausage, NOT.

      • Ha, ha, no, I got “you accused me so I will never talk to you again.” And not sure how he thought that was a punishment…

  • I was actually thinking it was funny that, in spite of all his ranting, he manages to capitalize a “She” mid-sentence, implying godliness. … which is, of course, how I’ve always felt about CL! 🙂

  • The problem is he is/was trying to explain his way out of a problem. It was his action that caused the problem. No explaining fixes that sort of problem, only consistent action that demonstrates a changed pattern of better behavior.

    If he said the first sentence, then acted in a manner consistent with what was expressed in that first sentence, he might have had a chance.

    The problem is this is just a grandiose form of, I was wrong, but….

    I did wrong, but you never forgave me…

    I did wrong, but you never met my needs….

    I did wrong, but you never understood me…

    These go on ad infinitum

    If there is ever that but, or any of it’s relation living in the verbiage, you can ignore everything before the but, because the speaker doesn’t really mean those words.

    The only thing that would come out of the mouth of someone who believed the first part, “I was wrong” is something along the lines of, “I know you probably can’t trust me now, but I hope to demonstrate by not merely by words, but my deeds, that I recognize how hurtful and wrong that behavior was and will never do it again.”

    • Exactly this.

      I fucked up, but ….

      and really, all the “buts” are subtle (or blatant) reversals of blame and responsibility, as well as rewriting of history, outright lies, etc.

    • My inner engineer is showing, I’m not sure “it’s relation” is the right form. Maybe someone who writes in actual words and sentences for a living could help out a left brain numbers and logic kinda guy.

      • I concur with Miss Sunshine – lose the apostrophe.

        I find it helps to think of “its” (when as a possessive and not instead of “it is” – thank you, LAJ!) as exactly like “his” or “her” or “hers” – you don’t put apostrophes in them, do you? ‘course not… HTH 😀

  • CL: “UBT: Because there are no explanations for cheating. Every ‘explanation’ is just a rationalization or excuse or attempt to blameshift and mindfuck.”

    ^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!! !! !! !!

    This is what CL (and the rest of you here) helped me to realize. It is the single most valuable piece of wisdom that she provided to me, as well as the hardest for me to accept. My ex-wife and I made so many “explanations” for her cheating.

    –Hormonal imbalances from going off birth control.
    –“Acting out” to deal with her fear of childbearing (even though we’d agreed we wanted to have kids…and she was 35 years old…so the clock was literally ticking).
    –Fear of relocating our lives (as previously agreed upon) to live closer to family to raise children.
    –Less frequent / more routine sex than when we’d first gotten together years earlier.
    –Vaguely defined “lack of excitement” in our marriage.
    –My “absence” from going to night school 2 nights per week, 26 weeks per year.
    –Wayward Fog
    –And the list goes on…and on…and on…

    Seriously, even after I filed for divorce, I clung to some of these. I knew that I couldn’t trust her anymore, and that’s all the reason that I needed to power through my divorce. But I kept wanting to “explain,” to myself and to others, why she cheated.

    It wasn’t until the divorce was finalized that I could take a step back and re-evaluate. In those first couple of months after the Court’s ink was dry, I came to accept what CL had been telling me (and others) all along: there is no *reason* to cheat other than poor character. Anyone telling you otherwise hasn’t thought it through. They prefer (as I did) the blameshifting and rationalizing because it feels better than admitting that you married a person with poor character.

    But, that’s the point of the truth, isn’t it? The unblemished truth is not subjective. It’s objective. And it hurts. It strips away the innocence with which I approached love and relationships.

    I sometimes miss the “old me,” who believed that everyone was worthy of love and companionship, and insistent that all people are good people. But, I prefer to live in the world as I do now, with my eyes wide open, focused on which character traits are important in a person vs. which traits are superficial and “nice to have.”

    • So many stories on this page of chumps who worked their tails off to set up a happy home, take care of children, work two jobs, be compassionate to cheater-pants, did wear high heels & lingerie, and yet….cheaters still cheated and blamed it on our lack of attention to them or we didn’t do x, y, or z.

      This Native American parable should be all that we remember if we start to internalize their criticisms and think that we were (a) at fault, or (b) could have done something to prevent the cheating:

      “A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly, he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.

      The fox said, “No. If I do that, you’ll sting me, and I’ll drown.”

      The scorpion assured him, “If I do that, we’ll both drown.”

      The fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him. As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, “Why did you do that? Now you’ll drown, too.”

      “I couldn’t help it,” said the scorpion. “It’s my nature.”

      • Tempest, I have always loved that parable. I don’t waste much time untangling the skein anymore, but on the rare occasions I find myself thinking about the things ex did, I always tell myself, “It’s just his nature.” Really there is nothing more to it.

        • Brain structure too, as research is showing… big old deficits in his/her brain. Can’t change… like a scorpion or like asking a cat to bark…can’t be done. We need to learn the skills to see them coming.

        • Like the snake story – snake is frozen, trapped, in deep trouble in some way and convinces a passer by to help. It promises not to bite and gains the trust of helper despite their misgivings.
          As soon as the snake has gotten out of whatever trouble it was in it goes right ahead and sinks its fangs in…..when the stricken helper protests in shock and horror and asks why then the answer is simple – because I am a snake and you knew damn well thats what I was before you picked me up.
          How many of us are just like that helper….we know that our cheaters will lie, deceive us, carry on their affair, have another affair, hurt us again yet we take them back on the strength of their unconvincing word only to be chumped some more!

          • My therapist told me that one, and it really hit home. Then I found this:

        • I’m sure it’s the generic “he” being used–you know, how the male pronoun is supposed to cover both men and women, and “mankind” includes men- and women-folk. I guess because men are the prototype and all–not sexist in the slightest.

    • JC – your clear explanation resonates with me and my trauma. thank you for writing it.

      in addition to trying to vet people’s character as I decide whether to further invest in friendship or romance, i am committed to being an ardent student of reality. does what they say match what they do? do they talk about other people ways that are consistent with my values? ( this last one is a valuable “secret” decoder!)

      the “old me” is still there (precious, smart, compassionate) however i have traded innocence for reality. i think that is the better part of wisdom.

      btw, FANTASTIC post today, CL

      • do they talk about other people *in* ways consistent with my values?

        • Yes, Chumpette. That’s a “secret” decoder that I haven’t paid enough attention to, although it has crossed my mind.

          My ex would talk about some others in ways that weren’t consistent with my values, but I spackled away because she generally talked about the important people in our lives in a way consistent with my values.

          It wasn’t until she was in her affair that I heard her talk about me, and my family, and my extended family, in ways inconsistent with my values. I told myself, “She’s suddenly become a totally different person!”

          But, I eventually couldn’t spackle anymore. She was the same as she ever was. The only things that had changed were the objects of her resentment.

          • This is me too.. I am now way more confident in my values…

          • “Objects of her resentment.” Yep that’s right because they are always raging at some perceived wrong and when they turn it on us we get burnt. Someone else is always to blame.

        • I sure wish I had figured out that secret decoder earlier! The ex showed, within a couple of years being together, that he didn’t like or respect ANYBODY. Not even the few people I think he actually loves (in his own limited way), like his mom.

          I should have realized that this meant that a) we didn’t share values, and b) of course he didn’t like or respect me either (nor, in the end, his own kids, sigh). Could have saved me a full decade of wasted time and investment, and hurt. There was good stuff too, of course, but NOT EVEN CLOSE to enough to make that lost time worthwhile.

      • I love the secret decoder idea. This type of growth and emotional maturity is one good thing that comes from chump recovery.

  • Though the contribution of this sad sausage is (a bit) more eloquent that yesterdays toxic text-fest, the dichotomy in his tirade is not only a classic example of word salad, it’s a whole word salad bar! One I, or anyone who has posted here, would urgently warn anyone from grabbing a chilled plate and traveling through. It’s spiked with emotional and pathological E. coli.

  • One person’s bitter is another’s justified outrage.

    Why would someone hang out here for years? Maybe to serve as a sage to those who may be hours into the process that takes years.

    I was betrayed in 2003. That’s right, 12 years ago!

    Am I bitter? I don’t think so. But I do have what I believe is genuine, warranted anger at the injustice of someone who would betray another and then try to pin the blame on the victim.

    It’s not like the cheaters are going to bind up the wounds of those they injure. So who is left?

    It’s those of us who have walked the walk. It’s those of us who are further down the road of healing that are the reliable sources of help and encouragement for those just beginning the process.

    If you think that’s bitterness, then you really don’t understand the damage done by those who betray their spouses.

    • I think I responded to something that disappeared. Or I really need to switch to decaf.

      • No, the “bitter” thread was up above; just posted in the wrong place. Excellent comments, btw.

    • I delete the troll comments from proxy servers. But good reply, Uniballer.

    • Uni, I also like to hang around here, even though I’m long past Dday and long divorced. I’m pretty much at meh, but I hope that in some small way, I can help those still reeling from Dday to hang on and have hope. I managed to survive and thrive, and if I did it, anyone can.

      • As one of the newly chumped, I thank all of you for your wisdom, experiences (although none of us what to be part of this club), and insight into the devastation that has become our lives. I am 7 weeks post Dday and am so grateful for this site. I thought I was going crazy and not sure I was going to make it. He has been NC since Dday and everyday I cannot begin to reconcile the person I thought I spent my life with and the person that knowingly destroyed our family, our lives, and all the lies. My mind doesn’t work like this. How can he not even say “I’m sorry for hurting you and the kids”….just crickets.

        I come here everyday to just try to survive. So, from the bottom of my chumpy, ethical, moral and loving heart. Thank you.

        • Whatachump you will do more than survive, and if you need more, come to the forums for support, lots of good people there to help.

        • What, I am not a chump. I found this blog by accident and for a long time wondered why I could not leave, then I realized why. My brother was cheated on and he and his kids were abandoned. She really disappeared for months and sometimes years. The children were devastated. My sister-in-law was so, so charming and my brother never suspected a thing. I have no idea how these narcs are able to hide the monsters who live inside so I suspect they have been faking it since childhood. Abandoning children is a sure sign of a sociopath to me. Once you accept that the person you were married to never existed you can move close to meh.
          My brother needed me and I let him down. I was not good enough. I let my own life come before his needs and I am so sorry. So I visit here every day to let Chumps know that there is life afterwards. My brother made it through and found a wonderful woman to marry. This blog is unbelievable. I think it truly saves lives.

      • Yup, count me in the way down the road from the D-day category. This has been a wonderful place for me in my process of recovery. There were so many things that went down in my marriage that I didn’t understand and blamed myself for over the years. Thanks to CL and the Chump Nation it has been possible to put that burden down. Now I have a much better handle on the totally evil mind fuck cheater ex laid down along with truly shitty behaviour towards both me and his children.

        Most of the time I’m pretty meh towards him, until I connect the dots on another crappy textbook cheater strategy that he pulled. Then I find myself pissed all over again.

        That being said, this place has been such a healing place for me and if I can give back in some way by sharing my story, as difficult as it is to hear, I feel honored to be able to help in some small way.

        I guess my tale is a warning about how far some cheaters will go to win, and how often we chumps underestimate ourselves when it comes to the innate strength we carry inside us. We are resilient people indeed.

        I’m proud to be part of the Chump Nation.

    • I’m another one of those who has moved on. I don’t post here as often, but I try to do my best to help those in “the valley of the shadow of death” as it were. Bitter? I don’t think I’ve shared more than bits and pieces of my story with anyone here because it hasn’t been relevant.

      • GreenGirl, the sharing is always relevant, and good for all of us. So if you have any desire to share, do so! Forums are great for that, you can just start a thread. And you might be surprised to see how many people might find your story relevant. Even underlying some very different surfaces, there are often common threads ….

    • And you become part of a community. People come and go, take a break and check back in. But all of us gained from people who are a lot farther down the road. This was the only place I could go where anyone understood this huge painful event in my life.

  • Him: “Yes, I did something horrible. But that was not the real me, I’ve changed. You just won’t believe I’ve changed.”

    Me: Which time are we talking about now? I think I believed you had changed that first time. That’s why you got to make another mistake and I was still there? Remember that first time? I know there have been many others in between (I don’t know how many, and I am not sure even he remembers how many). When did this change happen? Five minutes ago?

    Him: “Why can’t you forgive me?”

    Me: Because you are not sincere. Because I don’t believe anything you say now. You have lied so much, I have come to believe you never told the truth at all.

    Him: ” When did you become so bitter?”

    Me: When I realized how many years of my life I had wasted trying to make sense out of utter nonsense. I bitterly resent the fact that you wasted my time.

    Him: “I always try to be the nice guy, with a big heart. My big heart is what gets me in trouble.”

    Me: I thought it was all that time you spent on the internet on the porn sites and dating sites, and all the time you spent on the phone and sexting with your OW that got you into trouble. It was your heart? Who knew?

    Isn’t it strange that whenever a woman asserts herself, and doesn’t believe in and forgive lies anymore, she becomes a BITCH? And if she doesn’t want to have sex with her soon to be X, it is not because he destroyed her desire for him, but that she suddenly has become FRIGID and a LESBIAN?

    Just to save time, Arnold, YES this conversation could go another way if it was presented from the male chump point of view. I don’t need a rewrite or a reminder that some Chumps are men. I always remember you are male, Arnold. I just don’t have time to write every observation I have in non-gender specific language. In addition, I do not feel the need to start a website or a movement for women who are sick and tired of dealing with cheating men. Chump Lady is covering that nicely, thank you.

  • Amen! Cheaters really do have a handbook. My STBX said almosy everything Mary listed.

    • I missed a couple:
      my mother/grandmother/pet hamster died and I was mourning
      I have had/am having some sort of breakdown
      it was just an innocent friendship that got out of hand

      Feel free to add more.

  • “After receiving the consequences for such stupidity, She wrote a book designed to condemn all adulterers—without regard to the circumstances”

    This right here is why I know love is BLIND. If only we could read their minds before marrying and reproducing with the ignorane, racist, abusive assholes. This is what a narc looks like inside out. Just listen to him please. He’s showing you exactly how he thinks. Usually, the abuse is without audience or support. When they put it in writing it becomes so very apparent. A perfect example of why reconcilliation does not work, blameshifting, justification, deflecting,………and the book is about condemming them!!

  • Projection-flavored narc rage. What he’s saying is:

    (My) bitterness leaks through, and (I) slander otherwise good people. Nothing, but nothing in this world is as absolute as she makes them out to be. The only absolute that I can say is that (I) am a cunning, mistaken, foul-mouthed, conniving, bitter, vicious bitch.

  • Good grief, it must be “Take A Troll To Lunch Week”! and someone forgot to give us the memo!

    trying to help….just go crawl back under your bridge now…shoo, shoo……

    • And today’s trolls seem to know how long CL posters have been on the site. You’d think in 3 years that these trolls would come out of their mothers’ basements long enough to submit a McDonald’s application and earn a W-2 like the rest of us. I chalk up their ignorance to vitamin D deficiency from lack of sunlight.

      • Now see, I’d actually like to see the comment ya’ll responded to, it’s a pain to only see your response to the trolls, heh

          • Thanks Tempest, they are hilarious, the dichotomy in the second post was stellar, you are here so you are not ok, I never looked back…but, but I’m here too…brain asplodes, have forgotten how to assimilate opposing claims that make no sense

          • Hey Tempest – could you do the same for me please? I was shaking my fist to the sky and saying ‘damn time differences and working for a living’!!!

  • My cheater ex is a law enforcement officer, and I’ve often wondered if he would accept an explanation and half-hearted apology. “You wrecked your car while drinking and driving? Yes, I can see how the system of rules and past encounters with the law drove you to this. As long as you’re sure you’re sorry and promise not to do it again, then I forgive you. Now go on and get out of here, you delightful scamp!”

  • This article has me thinking about bitter. The accusation of bitter is pretty commonly used.

    The president, talking about “bitter clingers” when describing his opponents. Agree or disagree with his policies, one must admit that the tactic of labeling your opposition a bitter does nothing of substance to support your view.

    The same can be said for those who call Nancy Pelosi a bitter woman, again, doesn’t really do anything of substance to support your argument.

    Describing someone as a bitter old white man, in order to side step actually discuss what the BOWM might be saying. On the other side, I’m sure plenty of feminists, civil rights leaders and protesters from all regions on the political spectrum have been called bitter, instead of a civil debate on the relative merits of their points.

    I believe someone else mentioned it, it’s an ad hominem. Attack the person, deflect from their argument by trying to discredit them.

    After all, how could a 50 year old, WASP, Libertarian, multi-degreed engineer, living in flyover country actually know anything of value?

  • Haven’t even finished reading the post yet but just had to say:

    Yes, but she’s OUR ‘cunning, mistaken, foul-mouthed, conniving, bitter, vicious bitch’ and we love her for it! 😀

  • Oh man, gotta love cheaters who try this little rope-a-dope tactic. It’s the old “If you really loved me you’d forgive me” routine. Well, to that I counter “if you really loved me you wouldn’t have cheated on me”.

    • and cheated on me, and cheated on me, and cheated on me ……

  • “She is largely correct”‘
    THIS is why he is so angry at CL. Because, as he himself notes, what she writes is TRUE, and the truth is not flattering to the character disordered. Narcs always get enraged when truth shows their inner ugliness and reveals that they are nothing but a charade. The rest of his rant is just the typical narc word salad, rage and bullshit.

  • If you’re a cheater, Chump Lady sucks so bad for you because she’s smarter than you are, and she’s all about saying, “No,” to entitlement.

    I mean, the audacity.

    So if you can spray a few insults her way–the worst ones you can think of, in a tantrum-like way–and some of them stick, then maybe you can get back to the business of unbridled privilege. All others be damned. They don’t stick? You’re not going to go away, humiliated at being called a…a lesbian?

    Tracy, you’re sort of a buzz-kill for cheaters!!! Damn you!

  • I left no stone unturned in trying to fix my dilapidated marriage.
    I tell you, ChumpLady, you are brilliant. You have an acute intellect & that is a gift.
    How long did I listen to ‘positive’ advice before I realized concensus was a rainbow mirage? Years.
    Truth is sharp. Truth is not negotiable. Truth (& unwavering follow-through) is the only foundation that I want now a’days.

    • It’s also kind of simple. Once you give up the ghost of trying to fix something you didn’t break and control things you have no control over, life is much, much easier… and sane.

  • I’m very impressed with the therapist who suggested for her to read Chump Lady.

  • The only road to safety, when faced with the reality of betrayal by your life partner, is to RUN the other way! I resisted and fought this truth, it just couldn’t be true! I had to fix something!
    Until I met you, ChumpLady.
    As much as her cheater hates you? I LOVE you with an equal intensity.
    You helped me get myself back, he wasn’t more important than I was, after all. Amazing. Let that goofy cheater hate on us, we’re the mighty ones now!
    And on a lighter note:
    Does anyone need any of this Free Stuff, I just saw on Craigslist?
    Everything free out front (hayward / castro valley)

    Moving -left beds mistresses box springs kids basketball court just needs the rim repaired easy work too much to list but all free come get it.hi

    LOL, happy Thursday CN!

  • Cheaters are all alike. They all become bitter when they have to deal with consequences when they come. The chumped will no longer do the pick me dance or the chumped files for divorce or the chump sets up boundaries to reduce contact.

    A chump asking the cheater to give up their keys to the house and the garage door opener is “over the top” and unwarranted. And so is finally telling them that they no longer need to come in the house for pick up/drop off of kids. And when we chumps won’t play nice and be reasonable and take on one more financial responsibility “because it would be better in the end”.

    A cheater HATES it when chumps know the truth, accepts it and acts accordingly. And. They. Do. Get. Bitter. They are shocked! And we are unreasonable bitter bitter people.

    • conniered, my ex denied any wrongdoing for the longest time. Then when he decided he wanted his wife and kids back, he decided to admit he had done wrong, at least a little bit. But our reactions were so ”over the top and unwarranted”.

      I just wonder at what point, and by whom, it was decided that the CHEATER got to decide what was an appropriate and proportional reaction to his wrongdoing. Did I miss that meeting?

    • Conniered, take the keys and get a court order stating this is your residence. X lost the privilege of coming in/on property the day I got a court order for residency. My children are adults however he cannot pick up or drop off my granddaughter at my home. Those are boundaries and consequences if his behavior of screwing whores in my bed. Power and control on my terms now that I divorced the asshole.

  • I am suddenly reminded of a cooking competition that I watched on TV some years ago. One contestant spent most of his time complaining at the lack of competition, that he came expecting to go up against good chefs instead of the ones he was competing with. He was eliminated in the second round not because he wasn’t a good chef but “the judges failed to understand his vision” and he hoped the judges on the next show he competed on would be “more sophisticated.”

    If our motto should be “leave a cheater, gain a life” theirs must be “I am never wrong.”

  • I know that these cheaters all have the same lines but did any of you get this one? “You needed time to heal”.

    This now comes after one and a half years of living apart. We are not yet divorced but it’s been just over three years since D Day. I think that he realizes that living by mummy and daddy isn’t any fun; he has no friends; the new boat isn’t all that he was hoping for in terms of fulfillment; he realizes that I am moving on (as requested a year ago at our last therapy session before now) and he saw that some months ago I had a holiday romance with someone for a week!

    Any thoughts? Do I run for the hills?

    • I would say yes. I don’t think 99% of them give a flying damn if you ever heal.

        • He needed time to demonstrate remorse and rebuild his character. Figuring that job is still not done. And of course you needed time to heal, but if he were any kind of partner, he would have been demonstrating that remorse to help you do that healing.

        • That’s an interesting point, and I think you are right, Scott. I gave Cheater waaaayyy too many chances before I realized what he did tainted our marriage/relationship past, present, and future. There really is nothing left for me there. Never was.

    • “You needed time to heal”, put through the UBT, means
      “I wanted to go out and have my fun, and figured I’d be living in a life-long fantasy of sex and fun fun fun. But actually, my life was better when I was with you, so I want it back. I don’t give a shit what I’ve put you through, I just want you to go back to providing that same level of comfort and kibbles that you used to, and that I threw away with zero thought to your well-being or pain. Oh, and BTW, don’t be expecting me to actually DO much about your pain and well-being, ’cause just waiting and then pretending not much actually happened should be enough to fix everything!’

      • In other words you are at fault for not getting over it instantly.

        • Two months after D-Day, my Ex said to me, “I am very concerned because you don’t seem to be getting over this quickly enough.” What he really meant was, “Please give me some money. All the money you gave me and spent on my during our 16 years together wasn’t enough; it was great, but I need/want more and I’m not sure OW is going to do that for me.” So get over it, okay?

      • KarenE, perfectly said. They are soul suckers. They must have someone with a soul to do this and the best person they know is you. All those schmoopies are just like them, maybe worse. It’s amazing that these narcs fall for some of the schmoopies, don’t they see that they too are black holes with nothing to offer but sparkles.

        • Yes DeeL, the Schmoopie that my ex left me for is his mirror twin if not worse, but he thinks she is smart, strong and a cutie! Or about as cute as you can be at 53 and a case of arrested development!

    • RUN! Been there dear, and it’s all just sport for him. Remember, YOU have the values, character, moral fiber, and decency that he lacks, and he can’t – no, he WON’T let that survive in you because it out-trumps him. He will destroy you again because he is, after all, a scorpion (see NA proverb above). Stay strong and protect the progress you’ve made. Hugs 🙂

  • As a footnote just in case nobody mentioned it yet: I don’t think sharing CL’s book with your cheater is going to accomplish anything.

    Unless they are already unequivocally, unreservedly repentant… you’re not going to teach them anything because they already think they are smarter about people and stuff like that than you are most likely.

    After all, they thought you were dumb enough to fall for a lot of crap, right?

    • And ANY book on cheating just gives the smarter cheaters more ammunition for the next time they want to manipulate and gas-light chumps.

    • A complete cure that would actually stop the cheating is this: The cheater needs to heal from the abandonment issues, re-establish a sane and healthy self-image, fully discard the poisonous beliefs she has held for so long, replace them with morally good beliefs, accept her actions, come clean to the people she has betrayed, and truly live with the consequences of what she has done. Then, the cheater needs to replace her bad habits with good ones, and do whatever her partner asks of her, to demonstrate that she is trustworthy.

      This is something the vast majority of cheaters are unwilling to do. He/she has to accept total responsibility for what he/she has done, and do the hard work of being a better person. And they have to do that work because they recognize the need to be a better person, whether or not the chump decides to give hi/her another chance. We chumps have the absolute right to decide whether to extend grace and mercy. Walking away is not quitting.

      • Hi, Working. I agree with much of what you say, although I don’t think all cheaters have “abandonment issues.” But I think in your post that phrase stands for “work on their bad character issues.”

        • I agree, LAJ. Mine *should* have had abandonment issues–instead he assumed he could pretty much do whatever he wanted and I would forgive & stick with him.

          • Chump Lady, thank you so much for letting that link lie. I posted it on midlife forum to help the confused and shell shocked people there, and Pat deleted it.
            Talking about that forum, Chump Lady is a forbidden name!
            Your ‘pick me dance’ is highly quoted on the British site Mumsnet.

  • I think my favorite bit is the last line in which he admits that CL is “smart and accomplished,” but he also reveals that he doesn’t value these characteristics. He only values women who are “nice”–which is to say women who accept his excuses, behave submissively, and who will at the very least pretend to be dumber than he is. “Nice” means “not a threat.” Turns out CL is definitely not nice.

    Of course, by definition, chumps may be people who spent too much time agreeing to be nice at the expense of all their other strengths. Maybe a lot of us aren’t so nice any more–just smart or happy or thoughtful or hard-working or truthful. I don’t much miss being nice. Being “nice” just meant being deferential to someone who treated me with disdain and disrespect.

  • Hi WhatAChump, I consider myself a new chump too even though I am 8 months from D-day. I can’t reconcile my STBXH behaviour either. I am still waiting for someone to tell me I am just getting ‘punked’, still so surreal. I think I will join the forums, I keep slipping down rabbit holes and have a hard time letting go of the untangling.

  • I didn’t get many explanations other than to tell me I fucked everything up. What I got was a helluva lot of derailments and poor me shit. I’m not sure how many times I fell for “I’m not a monster” & “I’m not a bad person” ploys where of course I said he wasn’t and ended up assuring him I never said he was…ended up consoling him…andd when I look back on those discussions all I can think of is that quote. When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time.

  • there’s this guy at work who i know cheated on his wife. i know who he cheated with, too. he’s a part of my ex-wife’s circle of cheating friends (i’m not just saying that either – five of them, including my ex, are known to have had/are having affairs). he doesn’t know that i know.

    anyway, i ride my bike to work and we have a bike lock up in the basement. i run into him there almost every day. when i see him i think “loser”. in my mind he has no redeeming qualities and i don’t care about anything else he’s done in his life. he’ll always just be some crybaby loser who chose to fuck a stranger and ruin his family. so cowardly and childish. i judge him every time i see him. it’s great.

    he actually tries to talk to me sometimes. what a dick.

    so, dude who wrote the silly letter that is the subject of this post, this is how i think of you. we’ve never even met.

    • Ken – I think the same thing when I drive by someone or some car in a parking lot has “Whiskey” plates. When I see them I think “Loser.” Alcoholism also ruins families. Lucky me – I got the best of both worlds – an alcoholic cheater….”Loser.”

  • Its almost hilarious that they start with the insults of chumps being a ‘bitter bitch’ or they’ll bring up some perceived slight or something from 10 years ago that in their pea brains is grounds for insult. Must have hit a nerve, right?
    I’ve noticed this with a lot of people – when cornered they will unleash a torrent of abuse to try and smack the other party into submission. Sorta the ‘If I can’t get away with it, I’ll knock you down further than my level to prove a point’. Its crazy making at its finest, and you just gotta do the proverbial “take the toys and go home” with these idiots – because if you try and placate them or prove them wrong its all ego kibbles – which is wasted time and energy.
    I agree with all the other points you guys have made, too.

  • Of course….I heard over and over and over again how he had apologized and apologized, and just done EVERYTHING under the sun humanly possible to make it up to me. That’s the standard line. In reality, he did not a single thing. Not one apology, no remorse, not one honest discussion or morsel of the truth about where he was and what he wanted. How on earth he can remember how it all went down so differently than how it actually went down is beyond me. I think they are used to bamboozeling us, and think they can make us remember differently.

    • Yeah, mine said, “I tried SOOO hard at reconciliation.” I pointed out that the therapist, & all the websites he read on reconciliation said he had to have complete transparency to win back my trust, and he lied about EVERYTHING connected to his affairs (based on later information I had).

      His answer, “Well, I tried!” Jackass–I think he’d remember having a 4-month instead of a 3-week one, and taking grad-whore to Mexico with him. And then that undergrad who blew him….. and……

  • I gave him a couple of shots at reconciliation, being the supreme chump that I was, and what did he do with every one of them? Right, D-days 2 through 10. Tried my ass!

  • “Obfuscation! I hate clarity and imperative sentence structure! DAMN Chump Lady! Damn her!”

    holy shit, this is fucking brilliant. The word salad seems to be the common denominator between all of the cheaters, isn’t? Well, that, along with major personality disorders. Yo, you’re not just a bad apple, Sparklepants, you are a bad person, too .

  • one more thing, while on my mind… sociopathic cheater/ex has been whining recently to me that he’s unemployed and can’t even date because he’s broke. He also got kicked out of his mother’s house and is now living out of his car (allegedly, this is cheater’s word after all.) So whenever I bring up the past, his response is something along the lines of “this? this is what you’re still upset about when I’m obviously struggling in life? How dare I bring up his past actions when things aren’t going well for him? Cheater talk 101. Argh

    • Considering that his shitty lot in life is a direct correlation of what he did to you, shows much pretzel-twisting on his part.
      Its just a perverse form of “Its not what I did its your reaction to it”.
      Diddums to him.

    • He’ll never make the connection, that “This” is a direct result of his past actions and poor choices in life…

    • My cheater ex, spinning yet another narrative, whines in an email, “I could never make YOU happy” (yes, it wasn’t his crap behavior or affair that ruined our marriage!) and writes to tell me his New Love, his wonderful NEW Owife, IS STILL UNEMPLOYED. Boo fucking hoo! Guess it’s not raining down enough money on true love. Like who the fuck cares!?!?! Must be hard to make ends meet! *sarcasm font here* Yeah, because living on your salary-of a $100k plus, fucktard-is way better than WORKING!

      • Yes, I got told this: I tried so hard to make you happy.
        And I believe him, that he really tried. But because of FOO issues (see link above, terrifyingly accurate for us), he was not in touch with his emotions, said what he THOUGHT he should say instead of ‘this is who I am and this is how I feel’ – I was never dealing with authenticity and I never knew him.
        No wonder he couldn’t keep up the facade, blew up and ran to OW.

  • “It’s not slander if it’s true”

    Ahem, it’s also not slander if it’s libel (ya know, being written and all…) Oi, UBT, are you on a teabreak? I expected better pedantry than this from ChumpLady 😛

  • They are both defamation torts, Truth is still an absolute defense.

  • Well, honestly, when I was in trying to save my marriage mode, the many counselors we visitied (about 20) all told me to stay away from this blog, if I wanted to reconcile.

    When I ended things, one sent me here, but the others told me I had PTSD and it would keep me entrenched.

    Now, five years after the debacle, I feel healthy enough to visit sites like these.

    • Counselors, who encourage people to TALK for therapeutic reasons, steered people away from a website where they could process their feelings with other people who understand what they are going through???? Those counselors who told you to steer clear of this site SUCK. They lack basic humanity, psychological skills & knowledge, and should really apply for positions at Home Depot so that their interaction with people involves selling people screws, instead of screwing people.

  • “i run into him there almost every day. when i see him i think “loser”. in my mind he has no redeeming qualities and i don’t care about anything else he’s done in his life. he’ll always just be some crybaby loser who chose to fuck a stranger and ruin his family. so cowardly and childish. i judge him every time i see him. it’s great.”

    Ken Doll: You must be an unusual man. My ex cheater had a lot of male friends. Most of them covered for him. Many in our town knew he was cheating, but it has not hurt him business connection wise. The men actually think he is cool and bold and lucky to have had an affair. Absolutely none of the business connections or friends shun him. I wish they would.

    I really think that is part of the problem. A lot of guys celebrate men who have affairs. They cover for them, too.

  • “Patsy says

    May 7, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    OMG. Read this. THIS is why reconciliation doesn’t work, like chump lady believes. This totally describes Mr Cheater Patsy good little catholic boy of this mother, to a T. CL, sorry for the link to another site, but this is incredible…


    Some of the points in the article resonate, but honestly, none of it fit my former husband. Maybe it applies more to women.

    Honestly I think men cheat because it’s socially acceptable for men to cheat. It’s even encouraged and the cheaters lauded as heroes. The other guys wish they could do it to.

    Men have been cheating for eons. Women, too. But it’s only in the 21st century (the last 15 years) that is has become socially acceptable for women to cheat, too. Witness all the “slut shaming” protests.

    I really don’t think the article was a generalization. I do think some men who cheat are damaged, but mostly I think they cheat because they can, it’s acceptable, it’s cheered on by men friends.

    With that said, I have to head out. This site is causing me to trigger really badly. Arrrghh.

    • Mary3,

      Interesting thoughts. I read the article too & found it one attempt to decipher the cheater graffiti.
      I must admit, I had a strange, mind bending childhood, but I never cheated.
      I was raised in a cloud of denial, neglect and abuse recovery, but I consciously broke my parent’s stagnant and frightening cycle. Perhaps my past blinded me to some obvious red flags. I did choose to be accountable and faithful. Ex chose to eat cake.