Cheating Wife Now Wants to Come Back
His wife has been cheating, but now that he’s moving on, she wants to come back. Is he the fallback plan?
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Dear Chump Lady,
Ten months ago my wife of 9 years told me she was “unhappy” and wanted to leave. I found out the day after Christmas that it was because she had been fucking a mutual friend for several months at that point, and they were “happy” together.
Like most chumps I did what most often do: I spent countless hours and therapy sessions learning how to be a better husband to try and win her back.
Yes, I’m probably in the dictionary under the definition of “idiot”. By the new year she had promised to cut ties and work on us, including dragging me through the mud at therapy sessions that I always had to set up. Eventually by April I found out (while in therapy) that she really hadn’t ended her affair, and even went as far as to parade her lover around to our friends to “get their opinions” of him.
I was devastated and wanted to immediately separate, although because of my son and his school schedule meant I still had to see her for a few minutes most mornings before work. I honestly wanted to end everything right then and there, but her family also got involved, convincing me not to divorce her just yet.
A couple of months later I was introduced to a fellow chump and we hit it off.
I explained my situation and she helped keep me sane at times when I wanted to scream at the world. I had moved past my wife’s affair and felt the next step was divorce. Well, my spouse caught wind of the divorce and my chump friend, and has now decided she truly wants to repent and repair our marriage. Apparently the “love of her life” wasn’t all he claimed to be.
Now she won’t stop love bombing and trying to go back to where we once were. She seems sincere, claims to have ended the affair, but I don’t really trust her much anymore, and nor do I love her thanks to the months of emotional abuse. I always felt that I should keep my promise made during our wedding vows, but now I’m feeling guilted into this and I’m not sure I want it anymore. I like the peace and freedom I’ve enjoyed since she took her drama and left, and now I don’t know what to do. Is she just bamboozling me?
Am I just the fall back?
Any words or solid advice for a lost chump?
Sincerely,
Bamboozled Chump
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Dear Bamboozled,
You answered your own question — you enjoy the peace and freedom and don’t miss her drama. So, here’s your magic Get Out of Your Shitty Marriage card. With all the powers invested in me, Chump Lady, I hereby grant you permission to have needs and say no to abuse. Divorce! Be free!
Feel no guilt!
Was this not the satisfying answer you were looking for?
You want to second guess yourself and keep untangling the skein? Sigh.
Ten months ago my wife of 9 years told me she was “unhappy” and wanted to leave. I found out the day after Christmas that it was because she had been fucking a mutual friend for several months at that point, and they were “happy” together.
She’s moved the happiness goalposts. Now only reconciliation can make her happy. Funny how that happened at precisely the same moment you stopped pick me dancing.
I spent countless hours and therapy sessions learning how to be a better husband to try and win her back.
And how did that work out for you? Your wife was still cheating despite your self-improvement kick. (Chase those goalposts!) This is when you and your dimwitted therapist are supposed to connect the dots that your faults, real or imagined, do not compel her to cheat. Ergo, improving yourself will not rein in those wandering genitals.
Because the problem is her bad character and dishonesty.
You don’t control that. It’s pretty baked in. To be someone who can blameshift and lie throughout marriage therapy about her ongoing affair is someone pretty adept at the black arts of mindfuckery. You’ll never know if she’s changed because she’s so good at bamboozling. This is HER problem. She’s created a situation in which, even if she’s sincere (most likely she is not), you can’t believe her. You’re allowed to exit stage right.
I honestly wanted to end everything right then and there, but her family also got involved, convincing me not to divorce her just yet.
They are not voting members of your marriage. YOU are. Stop looking to everyone else to tell you what to do. (Including one particular snarky advice columnist). Who cares if your cheating wife wants to come back, or her family wants to enable her? Is this relationship acceptable to you?
A couple of months later I was introduced to a fellow chump and we hit it off. I explained my situation and she helped keep me sane at times when I wanted to scream at the world.
Solidarity is good. And it feels wonderful to be seen and valued. This is a good data point as you weigh continued marriage to a cheater.
One word of caution, however. It’s early days. You’re wobbly. If this person is a potential future girlfriend, don’t ask her to do emotional labor on your break up. That’s not fair to her, and it means you’re not available for a relationship yet. You need to heal up.
There is a world of chumps out there, in this community, who will also help keep you sane and help you through this grief. When you’re going through a divorce and you have a minor child, keep your hands clean. You don’t want to give her ammunition in a custody battle.
Why is she sorry now?
Well, my spouse caught wind of the divorce and my chump friend, and has now decided she truly wants to repent and repair our marriage. Apparently the “love of her life” wasn’t all he claimed to be.
Do you see how insulting this “offer” is? Only now that her affair partner has failed to enchant is she available! Only now that you’re happy is she sorry.
She should be sorry REGARDLESS of what you do with your life, and regardless of who she is fucking. Her remorse should be immutable. Instead, it seems very conditional on what you do, which is the tell-tale sign of naugahyde remorse.
You know what to do.
She seems sincere, claims to have ended the affair, but I don’t really trust her much anymore, and nor do I love her thanks to the months of emotional abuse.
Yeah, you thought she ended the affair when you went to marriage counseling. Anyway, you know what to do. You don’t trust her or love her. So, please end it.
always felt that I should keep my promise made during our wedding vows, but now I’m feeling guilted into this and I’m not sure I want it anymore.
Do you have to keep investing in pump and dump stocks? Do you have to keep eating at the restaurant that gave you food poisoning? Look at other broken social contracts and ask yourself if you should keep the relationship. No! Because the contract is broken. If someone defrauds you, stop investing. Or if someone poisons you, even if they didn’t mean to, but because they didn’t adhere to public safety standards, stop eating their food.
If someone cheats on you, even if they’re sincerely sorry, stop committing to them. You don’t OWE anyone reconciliation.
Am I just the fall back?
Yes.
Let her go splat.
Yes, there are many hoops to jump through to comment. Several different sign in steps, robot steps, the password then go back, then go back again then scroll down..then finally comment. I get signed out easily. These stories are timeless and priceless but unless one has time, it is not easy to get in. I do go to.the newest comment on the drop down box to see new messages but it is true the stories are years old. Again it is priceless advice, funny true and amazing. I have zero answers. I’d like to comment on the podcasts but it uses my Google account and you’ll know who I am. I’m zero tech so I have no cure. I just want to support us and new chumps and those in no contact with creeps….like I’m doing now. I just adore Tracy.
I log in thru the web site now; logging in through Facebook sometimes took 3 attempts! An ongoing issue is being bumped out – I was even bumped out while typing this! – and losing the comment I’ve been typing. I select all & save comments several times while typing but it still catches me sometimes & I just give up. I would like to see this at end of Tracy’s blog so commenters don’t give up TIP: due to bumping out issues, please save comments when typing or type in fully elsewhere & then post. Something like that.
I compose comments on a separate app and then just copy and paste. It is a frequent problem elsewhere as well.
Sorry about the hassle, but as the web changes, I have to keep up. And my IT guy tells me I need to have people register for security purposes and to keep spammers out.
I’m not going anywhere and I’m getting good at the hoops! Bless you Tracy, I would not have your stamina!!! Thank you!
I appreciate not having spammers here! ☺️
I feel your pain, it definitely sucks to have to deal with this, especially when you had to dance around in counseling.
And as CL would say, once you are free from the marriage legally and have had time to set up a new household for yourself, then you can START to “fix your picker.”
This is golden advice, Bamboozled. I hope you take it. Even the very sincere-seeming promises to end it with the OW on DDay #1 ended up being a bunch of baloney in my case. He only ratcheted things up more with her.
They can be so convincing because they’ve been perfecting the art of manipulation their whole lives.
When trust is shattered so badly, I do not believe there is anything to save. She broke your vows thereby ending the marriage contract. Then proceeded to tear you down in therapy. (This is traight out of the Cheater Handbook, from my experience and what I have heard from many others).
Time to saddle up and ride out of Dodge.
Bamboozled, don’t put your head back into that blender! Like our couples therapist said, “She’s got a lot of problems and you can’t fix them.” Slip out the back Jack. Make a new plan Sam. Just get yourself free! There is life on the other side. I am happily remarried and grateful she bailed on the reconciliation we were working on. Consider this: She was sincerely in love and committed to you, then she wasn’t, then she was committed again. She the pattern? Not capable of committing. Not partner material. It is a lesson from the school of hard knocks. Acknowledge that and make a new start. But like Tracy says, don’t be getting involved with another person right now. A sympathetic ear is great to have, but it is a distraction from the problem at hand a something most chumps will later say they regret. Just get yourself free for a while for now!
BC,
In short, don’t ever be anyone’s “Plan B” and never let your Cheater manipulate you into believing that you owe them reconciliation.
I’d also recommend that you recognise how emotionally vulnerable you are right now and avoid any entanglements with your fellow Chump; you risk getting hurt yourself (or hurting her), as well as your Cheater using the friendship against you. Your focus now should be on protecting yourself and protecting your son.
LFTT
That was the breakthrough for me—I did not owe him reconciliation, and demanding decent treatment was completely reasonable. He had been horrible during our long-distance separation. Absolutely no progress on his side while I was killing myself with three jobs and juggling both therapy and coaching. We also sold the house during that period which took the wind out of my sail because I had to juggle so much of that process while he was happily retired at the beach.
Nope. That was a wreck not worth salvaging.
All of these cheaters are ONE WAY STREETS.
Agreed! The last thing any of us want is additional gaslighting, abuse, and accusations from fuckwits. If the fellow chump is your destiny, let it be after you have healed and can give real love again-love that starts with you!
There’s a lot going on with cheaters and how they think, and Tracy nails it when she admonishes Chumps not to try to untangle the skein. I do find it helpful to know how my exFW acts and operates because we have kids together, so it helps me prepare for her shenanigans. BUT, trying to understand how her mind works really was a fruitless exercise when deciding what would make her happy, or whether I should stay in the marriage. The truth is, my FW, like the writer’s FW and so many others, feels like there is always something just beyond her reach that will finally make her happy. The moment you were inaccessible to her, you became that “something” that if she could only have you, then she would finally be happy. This will never end with her because that is the way her brain works. Pity the FW because, like Tantalus, the source of their contentment will always be dangling just out of their reach.
Ya know….some people are just not meant to be married or be in committed relationships and that probably is most FWs. Mentally, emotionally, morally, whatever, they’re just not prepared for that level of depth, mutuality, sacrifice, empathy, etc. They may have their own strengths but marriage and commitment are not among them. If only we’d all recognize that – them and us.
Personally I think there are legit reasons to try to “understand” abusers’ MOs– like predicting what abusers will do next in order to gain tactical advantage in leaving and protecting children, finances and oneself. Or simply out of some abiding interest in criminal psych. To quote Alexander Pope, “Know then thyself, presume not God to scan;
The proper study of mankind is man.”
But if trying to understand is even unconsciously motivated by an impulse to “fix” the abuser it can be a risky trap.
Good Lord. Run from this woman like she is radioactive waste. Because she is.
Our Fearless Leader hit all of the high points(once again!)
The part where I got the most stabby reading your narrative there was “paraded him around mutual friends for their approval.” We all draw our own lines when it comes to “deal breakers”-one of mine is “open and flagrant disrespect.” And please tell me that at least one of them stooged on the both of them. Because frankly if nobody did it’s probably about time to do some pruning in other areas of your life as well. And they just gave you a very good guideline as to where to start with that.
And seriously? Don’t listen to her family. They have a vested interest in a “her side” that does not necessarily include YOUR happiness or wellbeing(and as far as I’m concerned? They’re complicit). One way or another they (probably) have to put up with the idiot for a very long time. You don’t. Not anymore.
This idiot has already moved the goalposts back at least once to see if you will take the bait and play fetch. She will do it again when it suits her. If she is so unhappy and NEEDS you to change(“but take me as I am!”) she is not going grow as a person with you still around(if that is even possible.) “You can’t heal in the place that got you sick.”
I feel for you-it sucks to get friendzone’d and being third wheel in your own marriage. I’m 10 months out from D-Day myself-“I wasn’t happy.”, went through the therapy ringer trying to make myself better and more desirable and win that god forsaken dance and still lose. I’m not going through that again. My FW would do that again given the opportunity. I loved her more than anything but I am not falling into that trap again. I deserve better. And you deserve even better than me!
You don’t deserve to live in misery, to be the relationship police, to walk on eggshells, or deal with any more paranoia than you already have. That is not happiness and it sure as the sunrise isn’t love.
You did become a better husband/lover. Your time was not wasted in therapy(though might I suggest a “change in venue” if you get my drift). It’s my hope that it will be for another person down the line-but for right now the person you should focus on loving and being better to is YOU. I’m struggling at that too. Honestly? The times and ways it DOES work is actually kinda groovy. I’m still a little too damaged to “try again” just yet but…well…I’m getting there. Every week has a Tuesday…some week down the line I’ll find mine.
The thing about the vows are that they are shared vows. The betrayal (and again-the open disrespect/resentment/other four horsemen of relationship death) annulled all the old pacts and promises. You made those vows to a person that is now either gone or never actually existed. You’re already a better person. And her own vows sure as hell didn’t keep her boundaries in check.
If you really want to still be her friend-do what a real friend would do and teach her that actions have consequences and that the long dick of consequences rarely comes lubed.
JW,
Fully agree with your point about the Cheater’s family, although sometimes it is worth engaging with them. My MIL (who is a Chump herself and with whom I have always got along very well) told me – at a public event shortly after D-Day – that I shouldn’t have confronted Ex-Mrs LFTT over her cheating, saying that “If you had ignored it, it would have blown over sooner or later.”
I shot straight back at her “…. and should I be ignoring what she has done to our finances, her alcoholism and her abusive behaviour towards me and our children too?” Since then MIL has been progressively and increasingly on “Team LFTT” because she knows her daughter all too well.
LFTT
“Blown over” is the desired outcome. I’m glad you found an ally all the same.
My ex-in laws haven’t reached out. Right now I’m more broken up about losing them than losing her. I liked them.
They’ve picked sides and it’s not yours. Block them all.
I honestly think you need some alone time, some me time. No girlfriends, no wife. Just you. Figuring out your life & how you want to navigate it. If you have all these sideshows going on, it’s going to distract you from that. And maybe that’s why you have them around RN, to distract you from figuring your life out. I think a good therapist is what you need more than any romantic distractions.
From experience, try to manage your decisions without a chump female friends guidance and support. Especially another woman. Tit for tat feels good and can motivate your current wife to pick me dance for you. That means you’re dancing and she is dancing and no one is really thinking. I sadly did that same thing and ended up jumping into another marriage with someone who was just RECENTLY chumped too. Not a good idea for growth and healing. We were both hurting and my early Chump turned into a cheater so this was not a good idea. If you stay you will see who you have much more clearly. If you go, you will learn the same thing. You have a character deficit person who can change for a short time but has no capacity to truly love no matter what she says. The other thought is, if you are going to punish her with OW of your own, then you have decended to her ranks. If you want to truly date others and be free then file, divorce wait heal. That’s the honest thing to do before you become a cheater too. Her family, your family? They don’t live with you and have no idea no matter what you tell them. You have to do what’s best for yourself and free your wife to be who she is, a liar, cheat and deception queen. You’ll be ok.
CL has given stellar advice. Bamboozled’s ex sounds like the classic personality disordered/attachment disordered domestic abuser whose souls are so charred out that they can only value and devalue people according to a very dehumanized stock market principle and according to perceptions (sometimes demented perceptions) of whether the “resource” is in demand or not. Consequently, many abusers act like dogs with two bones and, even while monkey branching to new relationships, may attempt to “bury” former partners (figuratively or actually– think of poor Lacey Peterson and Shanann Watts) to ensure no other “dog” gets them. I’ve always thought this was the reason so many cheaters are emotionally abusive to chumps– as a way to emotionally cripple chumps to prevent the latter from being able to move on. And of course if chumps/abuse survivors do move on emotionally and romantically, abusers have a tendency to show up again like bad pennies in an effort to prevent this.
It’s a sick and sometimes even dangerous dynamic but very predictable because… attachment disorder. But it’s no surprise because cheating on a faithful partner is abuse. Full stop. Same as a tire iron to the back of the head or death threats (and I say that as a survivor of assault and attempted rape). This is why I think abuse in whatever form tears up all existing contracts leaving the victim free to do whatever short of violent retribution.
People who adhere to religious principles may not agree with me but, all things being equal, I can’t even morally judge survivors of abuse who “monkey branch” to new relationships before the old relationships are fully dissolved… except that it’s still not a good idea for the survivor. For one it’s not legally wise to do this as others have mentioned– it can complicate settlement and custody. Then there’s the issue of emotional and even tactical vulnerability following abuse that requires deep consideration of the types of people who would agree to take up with a still-married person.
Not that the fellow chump friend that Bamboozled mentioned is necessarily a bad person or even that Bamboozled, by saying “moving on,” is even indicating a new and active romantic tie but it’s just that the statistics on any kind of “relationship interloper” are concerning even if romantic cultural lore seems to contradict this. For example, the Emma Thompson film Effie Gray– the story of pre-Raphaelite painter John Millais’s emotional affair with Effie Gray (unconsummated until the two were eventually married) who eventually annulled her first marriage to the reputedly abusive and coercive critic John Ruskin does end well for Millais and Gray who went on to have 8 children together in a reputedly long and happy marriage. But I think that, if that version of events is true, it’s the exception for abuse survivors regarding their “rescuers.”
It’s too bad. In a somewhat more perfect world, rescuers would all be the real deal and abuse survivors could have help in “moving on” without the fire/frying pan dynamic. But Gray may have been very lucky because there’s quite a bit of research on so-called “mate poachers” showing that those who (on whatever rationale) get involved with others who are still involved in prior relationships tend to be especially high in psychopathy and “dark triad” personality traits. Just Google “mate poacher + dark triad + psychopathy” and a host of studies come up. So even if you technically reserve a limited moral exemption to, say, battering and abuse victims who overlap relationships and have exit affairs in an understandable effort to gain a body guard or ally in making their difficult, dangerous escapes (statistically not uncommon), there’s still the depressing statistic that 50% of those survivors will simply end up entrapped in subsequent abuse situations.
I suspect the above stat has to do with the fact that a pretty high percentage of those seemingly justified interloping “rescuers” are actually just plain old mate poachers with plain old dark triad traits albeit poachers with a better excuse than average to participate in an “overlap” affair. The fallout of this might be technically more dangerous for women due to gender skews in terms of physical violence but male abuse survivors wouldn’t be exempt from risk since studies found that female “mate poachers” appear to be equally prone to personality disorders as male poachers. Using another example of cultural romantic lore, what that means is that, even in the Coppola film The Rainmaker where Matt Damon’s young struggling lawyer character who– for seemingly all the right reasons– falls in love with and aids the escape of a severely battered woman from her violent husband (and also participates in killing the latter in self defense), statistical chances are that Damon’s character in real life would turn out to be just as dangerous as the victim’s abuser.
Again, I’m not saying that the fellow chump Bamboozled mentioned is necessarily a psycho and just another masked abuser but Bamboozled might consider slowing everything down to be sure. Going through a fraught divorce and custody battle would not be a great time to find out that a trusted ally was just another blackmailing manipulator and not just for reasons related to emotional vulnerability but also legal vulnerability.
But all that said I still am hoping that Bamboozled finds himself surrounded by only faithful allies — including this fellow chump– who will help ease the transition out of abuse. I wish that all survivors were assured of this kind of support though I think it pays to be cautious.
Or Jennifer Dulos, a mother of 5 who’s body wasn’t found after her rich Husband took up with an influencer, and when she divorced him, he and the OW killed her, then he killed himself. The OW still won’t say where she is, and their kids are orphaned. The lows these abusers will sink to out of selfishness have no rock bottom.
As for the other points, I find that it’s hard to make clear-headed relationship choices when you are in the middle of the drama and still reeling. I have been in the role of the confidant and told the person, “I will be here for you as a friend, but I think we need to pause for anything more until you have your own space, stability, and time to heal.” I deserve more than just being someone’s rebound because they are still learning how to soothe themselves without a partner, and they deserve more than being ‘the rescuee’.
Ultimately, it didn’t happen, but that was for the best. I would rather be single and friends than have a start that can’t be open, honest, and coming at them correctly.
Dulos seemed to center his resentment of his ex-wife on her efforts to remove custody. But I think that was just his cover story. I suspect that, for many domestic abusers, feigning interest in custody of their children (whom they often showed little interest in while fucking around) just sounds better than weaponizing custody to maintain ties to and control of their victims. But proof that abusers don’t actually give a rat’s ass about their kids is how so many show no hesitation to traumatize victim parents or, as in the Dulos case, traumatize the children for life by killing the one sane parent the children relied on.
This Dulos story haunts me, I still follow it. Her poor children. I’ve seen deep deep evil, but that resonates with me on many levels.
Yes to being single and free first.
“I’ve always thought this was the reason so many cheaters are emotionally abusive to chumps– as a way to emotionally cripple chumps to prevent the latter from being able to move on. And of course if chumps/abuse survivors do move on emotionally and romantically, abusers have a tendency to show up again like bad pennies in an effort to prevent this.”
Bingo. My fw never spoke to me, or even asked if I was ok, but almost a year after he left when he found out I had gone out on a date, showed up to tell me my date was too old for me, and asked me to come see his apartment. I declined the offer.
I wouldn’t have been surprised if he’d somehow known you were on a date without being told. These fuckers are nearly telepathic in that one sense and can basically smell it on the wind when a former victim is moving on. Contrary to the cartoon stereotype of the batterer who openly acknowledges paranoid jealousy as a reason for abuse, many abusers would never casually admit to anything so vulnerable and “weak” as being territorial any more than they can acknowledge this is the motive to crush victims’ self esteem, terrorize or kill or even cheat on their victims to begin with.
This is why I always suspected Chris Watts continued to lie to authorities about his motives to kill his family likely to the extent he was lying to himself about it. When he stopped pretending to have murdered Shanann because she’d killed their little girls, he claimed he killed Shanann because he’d pronounced the marriage over and she’d said he’d “never see the children again.” But in light of the fact he then brutally murdered the children, the latter rationale sounds like bs. I think what really happened is that Shanann confronted Watts about evidence of his affair and threatened to divorce so Watts raped and killed her to make sure no other “dog” got his bone then got rid of the witnesses as an afterthought.
Oh I am sure his mother told him, and he was a police officer, the only way he could have known who it was would be by running his plate (which I wasn’t trying to hide). I hadn’t told his mother his name. I just told her I had plans with a friend that night when she aske me to go somewhere.
That was when I got a “letter of apology” of sorts, and he had my preacher call and see if we could talk.
After I went to the meeting and made it clear we were done, the man I dated (who is my now husband of many years) saw him outside of his apartment at least twice driving slow and looking towards his apartment, which was first floor. He told me about it, and I told him not to worry, he had too much to lose by doing something stupid. He wasn’t worried, he just thought I should know.
He gave up soon after that, when he realized it wasn’t working.
He had no interest in having me back, he just wanted to destabilize me, of that I am sure. He didn’t realize that he had stayed at the party too long and my feelings had changed. They think a lot of themselves.
“These fuckers are nearly telepathic in that one sense and can basically smell it on the wind when a former victim is moving on.”
I need that on a shirt. Because it’s too true(have a DV case here at work where the abuser seems to show up every time the client is doing better.)
There’s that Jungian part of me (work with me on this one) that in odder/more sleep deprived moments believes that human bonds endure into the collective unconscious. Trauma creates a bond and warps existing ones. Wouldn’t it be hilarious if that is what drove that?
When we were still only casually hanging out with a group of mutual friends and before we were formally dating, FW in my case once drove nearly 40 miles out of his way on his lunch break to go to a particular Home Depot a quarter mile from where I was having lunch with an ex boyfriend. FW and I weren’t intimate then and I hadn’t said a thing to anyone about where I was going or who with. And why that Home Depot when there were half a dozen closer to his work?
I know he wasn’t actively stalking me at that point or he would have lost his job. It was just a strange “coincidence.” But there were other “paranormal” coincidences along those lines– him suddenly showing up when I was meant to call or meet someone with a romantic overtone– that, given how things turned out, made me wonder in hindsight if some spooky extrasensory territorial mate-guarding tendency is part and parcel with fuckwittery. Like– long story short– they end up cheating because they’re (subconsciously, of course. Thoughtless people don’t “think”) territorial to the point of psychic exhaustion and so paranoically, cynically afraid of being cheated on that they have to strike first.
I don’t know if that fits with Jungian theory about attachment but it fits Erich Fromm’s concept of the “masked dependency” of all grades of perpetrators on their victims. It also might fit (wild theory alert) Nobel winning physicist Roger Penrose speculation that the human experience of “prescience” may actually be legitimate and relate to the quantum function of microtubules in the human brain which (sorry for clumsy description) act as microscopic singularities through which the past and future might “leak” and create deja vu or foresight.
Blend Penrose’s “molecular foam” theory with the idea of individuals who channel abnormally intense, psychopathic amounts of energy into controlling partners and, voila, maybe that explains the eerie “bad penny” phenomenon. They just “know” when their victims are getting genuinely free because their very existence is bent on control of any and all past or present romantic partners.
What’s particularly creepy about this is that the stated motive of quite a few serial killers for murdering their rape victims was a kind of eternal possessiveness where, if victim was dead (and cut into tiny pieces), the killer was assured the victim would be “theirs” forever. The fact that some cheaters appear to share even a fragment of this weird perpetual territoriality even of partners they abandon strikes me as interesting.
HOAC, my TV producer FW literally produced a 20/20 episode about a guy who cut his wife up into little pieces and dropped them into the ocean and never got caught at the same time he was abandoning me and our kids. This was a story that had no particular timeliness or news currency (he tied it to a parole hearing or something similar, as I recall, to make it seem like “news”.) I did not know what he was working on until it aired. I was alarmed and concerned when I realized that was what he’d been working on. I experienced shock and dread.
It was obvious to me that he was expressing a wish fulfillment. The question was whether his desire to do that to me would progress to his acting on it. Of course, that he chose to produce a story about a man who’d gotten away with it for twenty-some years was what brought me up short. I was slowly realizing at the time that his abandonment of us had been coldly planned and carried out.
So, in my case, there was a very good reason to untangle the skein to the degree that the risk of harm could be accurately assessed. And I had to do it alone and keep my head, and reason coolly and logically.
(It has been over three years now since his awful story aired while he deserted us and raved, and I no longer feel nearly as threatened and frightened. He continues to abuse us financially and to be as unpleasant as legally permissible via his lawyer, whose triangulating presence keeps the raving in check, and that’s it, thank goodness. He moved far away and comes to see his teenage children once or twice a year only.)
That was definitely a skein that needed untangling and I’m glad you protected yourself and kids accordingly. It’s just unfair that it had to be you doing the untangling rather than, say, the FBI precisely because the campaign to criminalize coercive control is based on the statistics that those who engage in patterns of coercive control are far more likely to eventually commit violence or kill. But, since those laws are not universal yet, the untangling– i.e., statistical risk assessment– is left to victims.
I’m wondering if your ex-monster came up with the idea for the segment as he did idle Google searches for “getting away with murder.” But had he been asked, he may not even have tied his Google searches to his own violent fantasies because so many of these psychos are defined by their left hands not knowing what their right hands are doing.
The difficult thing about the statistical risk analysis/skein untangling being left to victims is that not even the FBI has an accurate working model for how these things happen due to the fact that prevailing theories are often based on what killers say about their own motives and mental processes. It seems absurd that the FBI would base its ideas on the word of spouse killers and serial killers when both types are known for spectacular levels of deception and self deception but that’s how it is and that faulty science now informs cultural concepts and gives potential victims very little to work with apart from their own gut instincts.
For instance, after reading how Chris Watts admitted he envisioned killing Shanann for weeks or months before he acted on it in an unplanned way, I think investigators should have adjusted that to “years.” Investigators also believed Watts that these fantasies began because Watts had replaced Shanann and Shannan was “in the way” rather than considering the possibility that the violent fantasies had existed from the beginning of the relationship and the cheating stemmed from that, not the other way around.
In short, it would give potential victims more of a heads up if it was understood that violent fantasies may drive cheating a lot of the time. Like any attachment-disordered batterer, it’s inevitable that the psycho “bitch tapes” about a partner will start rolling at some point (theoretically stemming from the paranoid, subconscious certainty that their partner will likely abandon them– “masked dependency). But, again, batterers never self-identify as batterers so it’s possible that cheating is a way of unconsciously veering left by telling themselves, “Uh, see, I’m a lover, not a killer!” Or else it’s eerier than that and, as they start mentally murdering their partner, they naturally feel the impulse to line up a replacement.
Either way it would be interesting if it turned out that many or even most cheaters have violent fantasies towards their partners that long preceded cheating and actually began in the love-bombing early stages of the relationships when the abusers were feeling the most vulnerable and clingy. In other words, the danger actually begins from the moment the abuser thinks they “love” a partner. It would explain why that love-bombing stage seems so real and convincing to victims– because it’s not really being faked. I think it would exonerate victims for being “fooled” or confused by displays of love and “missing red flags” if it turned out that the danger does not begin at the moment contempt and detachment start but long before, when the creep “fell in love” because the closest thing to love that abusers feel is more akin to a week old infant clinging to mommy’s breast for survival– a vulnerable self image that’s intolerable to abusers (ergo the victim is blamed for fostering the intolerable vulnerability, ergo bitch tapes).
In any case, I think it’s a mistake for criminal analysts to take cheating confessed spouse-killers like Watts at their words about anything, even the confession that a murder was based on avoiding the “inconvenience” or cost of divorce or simply to get the victim out of the way of an affair. Because the latter admission sounds so heinous, it’s assumed no one would confess such a thing it it weren’t true. But the latter cover story may actually be more palatable to abusers than to admit their violent fantasies– which had likely been running through their heads for years and years– were originally driven by pathological infantile dependency.
yikes! Thanks, HOAC. All thought-provoking and icky in equal parts..!
So very much ick. :/
I don’t intend to convey that, if abuse victims have any confused, lingering, nostalgic attachment to their abusers, this is the same as serial killers’ perma-possessiveness towards victims.
“that telepathic sense that (the spouse) is moving on” – I knew my husband had reconnected with his college sweetheart, and was silently toughing it out until my ducks were lined up. But one evening while he was traveling on business, he called me and I felt a certainty come over me that he was with her and they were about to have sex. I wanted to say, don’t, please don’t do it. But I kept my yap shut. In our wrap up, I mentioned that night, and he had the grace to hang his head in shame. Hope that my sense doesn’t make me one of those bad characters y’all talk about.
See my comment above that I don’t think victims’ intuitive sense of being betrayed or even lingering nostalgic attachment to abusers is the same as abusers’ weird telepathic sense of territorial control of their victims.
The thing I always think of when contemplating the difference between normal, intense emotional connection between people and the psychopathic control agendas of abusers is how lead (the heavy metal) basically bio-mimmicks nutrients that are essential to the body like calcium so that cells are “tricked” into absorbing the toxic metal. By the same token, abusers’ weird, psychopathic need to control their prey can sometimes diabolically resemble normal human attachment but, like the difference between lead and calcium, the gap between the two things is vast.
Mine told me he wanted to be public with his mistress but wanted whole heartedly to stay married and be with his family when he was not taking her as his “date” to weddings or work events, taking her on lavish vacations and/or entertaining her in our summer cottage( in my bed !!!) I filed for divorce almost immediately. Now after almost 2 years of living out loud with his also still married true love and the ink is almost ready to be dry on our D document he has seen the error of his ways. His shiny younger married schmoopie isn’t new and shiny anymore and now I am his soul mate and true love and he wants me back. He offered his best attempt at future monogamy but makes no promises as he is not perfect and he’s only human and leopards don’t change their spots. What a tempting offer, but I’ll pass.
Wow, that sounds so crazy – you get to stay at home and be faithful and shit while she gets taken to all the events and good times. What’s not to like, what an enticing offer for you! Seriously who would go with something like that, it’s such an insulting thing to say to anyone. And hindsight is always 20-20 – she was always trash but he wanted to parade the trash around everywhere. Guess trash is what he should be looking for – there’s plenty of it!
Good grief. I wonder how he thought folks would be reacting to his arrangement of taking his whore to outings, but keeping the wife appliance home working.
If properly staged on a nice plate in a fancy-seeming Japanese restaurant and hosed down with MSg, gas station sushi might look quite similar to gourmet but it’s not so tempting once you know where it’s been.
You need to lock down your information and intentions. Your divorce plans don’t just “catch wind” of a divorce, as if it’s skunk odor out in the yard. You have to tell people what you’re doing and then they blab it. Keep your plans to yourself. Don’t tell ANYONE but your lawyer (and maybe a parent or absolutely trustworthy friend). I told my BFF. That was it.
In that same vein, stop crowdsourcing your decisions about what to do about your marriage. No one else has to live with a lying, manipulative cheater. What matters? You and your kids. Act to protect yourself emotionally and financially. Act to protect your kids from the gossip that almost certainly circulates if your FW is parading around a lover while living with you. You want out. So talk to a lawyer, get your financial ducks lined up, make some decisions about what to hold on to and what you can afford to give up.
Stop talking to your in-laws, They are on the enemy team. They have a vested interest in you continuing to tolerate this mess. They may fear the shame of what she’s doing or they may just want your paycheck in her hands. I would block them on phone and text. Let her communicate with them.
Regarding “She seems sincere”: Of course she seems sincere. She’s manipulating you. Sincerity is part of that. Stop listening to what she says. Make a list of every single untrustworthy thing she’s done since you discovered the affair. Look at her ACTIONS.
And finally, you are not “over” the affair. Meeting a kind fellow chump victim and sharing horror stories is not the basis for any relationship. Once you file for divorce, if you like this person, meet for lunch once or twice a month and talk about ANYTHING other than your spouses, infidelity, divorce, legal battles, etc. Then go home. You can quietly take a year or so as you finish a divorce to see if this is someone you want to be more involved in, but you are nowhere near ready. And she is probably not, either. I gave myself 2 years before I even thought about going on a date.
It’s also worth noting that any effort you put into a romance takes time away from working on yourself and being there for your kids, who will need a lot of attention and reassurance. Put yourself first (1A) by doing individual counseling, getting un-mindfucked through therapy and reading, and taking care of your healt.; kids should be 1B in terms of your effort and concern. #2 should be working on your financial situation, including protecting your job from poor performance caused by stress. #3 can be rebuilding your support network: your family if they are supportive; your close, trustworthy friends; a therapist; your lawyer (preferably one who understand high-conflict divorces from disordered people); and ideally people you encounter out in the world who have no idea about the divorce so you have some respite and normalcy).
Great advice!!!
Really fantastic advice here, word for word.
Several people have mentioned it, but the caution about entering a new relationship, esp with a minor child, should be blaring like a foghorn.
But of course she does. You’re a safe, reliable Chump who doesn’t do bad shit and lets HER do bad shit and get away with it. She actually puts the blame on YOU. What’s not to like?
In all of her yapping about happiness, there’s nothing about YOUR happiness. What about YOUR happiness? She only cares about HERS. I don’t see any discussion or plans or concerns about YOUR happiness – except from you. You’re happier NOW without her and that’s the way it should stay. As CL says: IS THIS RELATIONSHIP ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? I can’t imagine that it is. A relationship inherently should be mutually supportive and beneficial – I only see your wife as One Way.
I like to say that once you find out about infidelity and attendant behaviors….you never view them the same way again. Even if you WANT to, you can’t. It’s like the wart you can’t unsee…it’s always gonna be there. Even if you want to forgive and forget….it’s always gonna be there and believe me….if you stayed she WILL do this again and even if you don’t catch her (you will) you’ll still get triggered by lots of things. You don’t even know if this was the first either. But you don’t ever view them the same way again with the same adoring and trusting feelings because now you KNOW what she’s capable of. And the fact that she IS capable of it, means she doesn’t love you anymore if she ever did. If she’s capable of real love. Once they start doing this shit, they don’t generally stop. You just keep catching them and the years pass and you become more and more demoralized and depressed and downtrodden.
Don’t let this be you. No one else has the right to guilt you out or try to force you to stay in a bad situation that can only be harmful to you. It’s also better for your son to live in an honest situation with both parents (hopefully) living happily apart, then to be angry and miserable together. Ask me how I know. Your WIFE created this entire situation on HER OWN and she completely owns it and don’t you take any responsibility or guilt or blame for this at all. Just free yourself and take care of your boy, that’s all you have to do. Your wife cast her own die. (Also….you’re gonna be a hot property for the ladies on your own….but don’t rush it, take your time both to heal and to pick. Enjoy being on your own for a while.)
P.S. Also, don’t believe anything your wife tells you about regrets or missing you or bullshit like that. Of course she does….you’re a great guy and you were a perfect Chump for a while, what’s not to miss. She thought she could be both married and single. But if you listen to her bullshit and take her back….once she feels safe again, she’s gonna do this again. And again. And again. Because she hasn’t changed, she’s just blaming you and covering her own tracks. People have to CHANGE THEMSELVES if they want to change their relationship and I see no indication that she’s working on doing that. She’s working on making YOU the Fall Guy.
Keep in mind the past and learn from it. She lived a double life and even went to counseling to further her abuse of you in those sessions. Her chance to make things right (multiple chances) have been squandered by her and abused. Do you really think someone who lived such a double life with so little remorse during that time has magically changed over night? She is a bad bet.
Here’s the thing about wedding vows. When one person in the marriage breaks them, they are broken. Even if your spouse is the one that breaks them and you didn’t want that to happen…they are still broken. You are not bound by those broken vows.
I had a hard time with it because I went to church and made those vows in front of my friends and family. I am a woman of honor, and I keep my word. It took me a long time to recognize the fact that the relationship was destroyed by the actions of my husband and there was nothing I could do about it.
However, when you’re married to somebody who acts that way it’s a GOOD thing to be released from your vows. You can end the marriage with a clear conscience.
Elizabeth Lee, I agree. What helped me biblically was knowing that in the old testament law, adultery was punished by death (both the straying partner and the affair partner.) So the chump was a widow, free to move on – and think of her ex as dead. fwiw.
As usual, the advice from Tracy and the commenters is spot on. I can only add from my experience when I “reconciled” with my ex.
First, I can see why despite her behavior, you’re still not quite able to accept that the marriage is irrevocably broken. My ex was not nearly as disordered as yours so it was easier in my case, but just considering what you wife did and is doing should be enough to say, “Nope”. Even you see it as abuse.
Second, even if you did want to reconcile, do you want to be walking on eggshells all the time? After all, you worked on yourself, and did she do the same? If that’s the case, then you’ll definitely be hyper vigilant about making sure she’s happy and likely she’ll be expecting that from you. Not a good way to live, and ultimately, she’ll probably decide to dump you in the future if she returns to “I’m not happy” (i.e. “you’re not doing enough for me.”) This is the relationship I ended up having after reconciling, that she ended the marriage angrily anyway.
Is she really worth taking that kind of chance? I really think you already know the answer to that, but be assured, I know how hard it is to fully commit to a divorce even when it’s so clear that’s the correct course of action. All the best and good luck to you!
Bamboozled, something else I thought to mention, I think others have as well here but I want to emphasize it. STOP TALKING TO YOUR WIFE. There’s no point to this, you’re never going to get anywhere, she’s either going to lie to you or blame you or fight with you or try to sweet talk & manipulate you. None of it is genuine and you might be letting her into whatever plans you have. You have to stop this and stop the joint marriage counseling (hope you already have). Joint marriage counseling is pointless with someone who just wants to beat up on the other spouse for their own failings, especially infidelity. Your wife does not sound like someone who is capable of a long term committed relationship with equality and caring on both sides, she’s not a mature, healthy person. She sounds pretty toxic actually which is why you’re feeling better considering divorce. Also, limit what you say to others also, unless it’s your lawyer and YOUR OWN THERAPIST – if you have one, someone who is supportive of you and your son. Don’t bond too closely with the other Chump, it’s easy to go overboard in a crisis situation, just be aware of that. I always say….you never get fired because of the tweet you didn’t send, and that applies to words too. This is a good place to vent and get advice – you can say what you want here and you get rid of us by just closing the page!
You just experienced what I hate about marriage counseling. They rugsweep and promote lying. Don’t tell the truth. What he doesn’t know won’t hurt him.
These people are not Gods. Some cause even more harm.
Yep, she wants you to be plan B. Until she can find a more suitable replacement.
Repeated infidelity is common
Family, clergy and counselors advice will be some of the worst you can get.