Living Together While Divorcing Makes No Contact Impossible
She’s living together with her cheating husband while divorcing him. He’s openly dating, yet making promises to try and win her back. How can she go no contact when they live under the same roof?
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Dear Chump Lady,
I am 69 and my cheater is 71. It’s never been a great marriage.
I believe he has cheated several times, but no real proof and always a convincing excuse.
He also had the vilest temper fueled by anxiety and I was always the target. I know I’m a genuinely nice person, so it’s not like I caused any of it.
Around 20 years ago I learned to withdraw and pursued my own friends, job and hobbies. It saved my sanity as the constant lies, rages and crazy accusations were driving me literally mad. He did the same (but had always done that anyway, but this time he’d retired early so had plenty of time on his hands plus a good income.) We stayed together for financial and security reasons but lived separate lives. Mine did not include romantic partners.
In 2014 he flew into a rage over nothing and hit me.
Enough. I filed for divorce and got a protection decree. Then came the usual promises, begging and so on and I gave in. I stayed hoping he would keep his promise to be a better husband. He didn’t. He joined dating websites and met multiple other women.
I knew nothing about this. Around 3 years ago he started dating a woman who is actually older than him and, frankly, ugly. But she’s great with the talk and great with the s*x acts. He was promising her marriage, a new home, saying he was divorced and so on.
He was playing her (as usual) but she played him better. I found out in October. He promised it would end, loved me, etc. Then 8 weeks later it started up again. Four months later I found out again and the divorce is going through.
What I don’t understand is why he is distraught?
He promises me everything he never delivered before, and reminds me of how we were once young and in love, which we were. He’s also still promising the OW marriage and love as I can see his texts and secretly record his calls.
Nothing will change my mind, I hate everything he is plus the OW never fails to stoke his unwarranted anger against me. So why am I sad? Why do I want him to spend time with me? I’ve had all the ‘you’re the only woman I want’ speeches multiple times and it’s not changing my mind.
We have to live together until the house is sold.
It is so painful seeing him dressing up and going out to see her daily, but I can do nothing. He has no one but her now. The rest of the family have disowned him. He has agreed not to text her in my presence or speak to her in the home. I truly hate her (also married and cheating) but can’t detach emotionally from him, or it seems him from me.
Please offer some guidelines on coping until I can find a new home and go no contact with him forever.
Sincerely,
Kate the Idiot
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Dear Kate the Perfectly Fine Person Trapped in a Nightmare,
You cannot maintain your sanity while divorcing a cheater and living together.
These things are not compatible. No contact is the fastest path to healing. No contact will break the spell of his centrality. All that ruminating and pick me dancing — why her? Doesn’t he miss me? All that garbage gets dispelled when he’s not in your face EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.
You want guidelines on how to cope with in-home separation? Avoid in-home separation. Seriously, I would rather put all my stuff in storage and sofa surf than spend one second with a wife beater cheater.
He knows you’re leaving him and that’s dangerous.
Please visit WomensLaw.org for a Danger Assessment. I’m checking several things off this list just from your letter. The last time he physically hit you might have been 2014, but it sounds like he’s been raging at you forever. Threats count. Imagining you dead out loud counts. And, as I’ve argued here many times, cheating on you is another form of domestic abuse. He’s devaluing you to your face, daily. The protestations that he loves you are ridiculous and just manipulations to get you to stay.
Consider calling the local women’s shelter or domestic abuse agency to help you make a plan. It’s possible to leave NOW before the divorce is final. If you’re in the United States, WomensLaw.org has a statewide list of resources and a legal helpline.
Now to address the parts of the letter that are trivial compared to your personal safety.
The Other Woman isn’t special.
I knew nothing about this. Around 3 years ago he started dating a woman who is actually older than him and, frankly, ugly. But she’s great with the talk and great with the s*x acts. He was promising her marriage, a new home, saying he was divorced and so on.
He’s lining up a new chump. She’s not competition, she’s his next victim. The talk and the bedroom antics are her pick-me dance. He’s a liar and you know better than to believe his promises. She’s freshly gullible.
He was playing her (as usual) but she played him better. I found out in October. He promised it would end, loved me, etc. Then 8 weeks later it started up again. Four months later I found out again and the divorce is going through.
If it took this latest affair to get you to leave, good. It’s the catalyst to a better life divorced from him. Consider her your liberator. (That’s if you think of them at all. I advise you to not think of them.)
Don’t confuse your grief with love for him.
So why am I sad? Why do I want him to spend time with me? I’ve had all the ‘you’re the only woman I want’ speeches multiple times and it’s not changing my mind.
You’re sad because starting over is hard. (But living with an abuser is MUCH harder.) Because you’re grieving the wasted years. Don’t confuse this sadness with love for him. You don’t miss him. You miss a sense of home and safety. He is a mindfuck. He’s a man who rages and hits you. Not because of his “anxiety”, but because it makes him feel powerful. It’s good to be King.
If you must live together, go gray rock.
Again, I strongly advise you NOT to live with this freak. But many of us have survived in-home separation and can tell you about it in the comments. Disengage. Go gray rock.
That means doing the absolute barest minimum. Don’t talk to him. Be somewhere else when he prepares for his dates. Don’t cook or clean for him. Shut down any nonsense of getting back together. You have a very linty dryer vent to clean. Toenails that need clipping. A lawn that needs mowing. Essentially do ANYTHING else other than engage with him.
I’m praying to the real estate gods that your house sells quickly. Stay strong, Kate. Peace and sanity are waiting for you on the other side. Big ((hugs)).
CN, how did you survive divorcing a cheater while living together?
I am still living with my FW. We have a young child. It’s 5 months from DDay where I uncovered his multiple s*x hook up sites and meet ups, his constant searches for escorts and his daily hardcore p*rn use.
Everything out of his mouth is a lie, I’ve caught him in so many now that it isn’t worth talking to him.
We co-own the house but I can afford to buy him out at a fair split. He doesn’t want a fair split. He can’t afford the house but wants near 70% of all our assets.
Hes a fantasist and abuser and not only do I have to deal with him daily whilst I work full time from home, but he has only worked 2 months of the year so far.
Despite this, I have pockets of emotional freedom. They enable me to see that his behaviour since DDay is not really any different to what its always been. I am just no longer in the dark.
Anyway. 5 months in i’ve learnt this:
Get a good lawyer
Don’t believe anything they say OR try to make you feel
Rely on your true friends, and I pray you’ve got some
It goes slowly but stand your ground, you make more inroads than they want you to believe
You are Mighty
Careful he’s not also stealing. During the false reconciliation era I found out he kept on stealing just even sneakier ways. And absolutely every word was a lie which took me too long to realize
You’re, right, but it’s agony and disorientating to hear words, expect them to be true and they’re not. As you say every word out of his mouth is a lie. He said it’s not sexual then he gets a call I overhear asking him to delete the photo he took of her genitals! Heavy porn use here too for the entire marriage. Vanilla though!
The vanilla stuff is the porn you know about. It’s pretty much guaranteed he is hiding the use of nastier stuff. Porn slobs who have used it that long get desensitized and must use freakier and freakier material to get the same effect.
Kate it surely is “agony and disorienting” to hear the lies, but your mistake is “expecting them to be true”. That’s what needs to stop: any expectation that this man will be true, be loyal, play fair, etc. Now it is all about you. What do you feel? What do you think? What do you want? Your marriage was and is a game to him and it’s time to stop playing as, to your credit, you mostly did 20 years ago when you write that you decided to lead a parallel life with his. Now you don’t even need that much anymore, and once you disengage for good you will finally have peace and quiet. Don’t just refuse to play his game, sweep the pieces onto the floor and flip the table. Master the art of “#kthxbye”. FW says “Kate you are the only woman I want” and Kate replies “kthxbye”. Stay strong. As you can probably guess FW will make any divorce process a marathon, but most of us here have been through the same and came out on the other side washed clean.
It took 14 months to get mine to move out. While I had no physical abuse or violence, the emotional abuse was tough. He would “sneak off” palming his phone speaking to his girlfriend while asking me to hang out and watch a movie. If we found ourselves both at home his feeling was why not be together, we are good friends.In the first draft of the MSA he asked to leave all of his possessions at the house because moving them to an apartment would be too cumbersome. After I stopped laughing, that request was summarily denied.Cheaters feel entitled to do what they have always done, take care of their own needs first. They hope the “Stockholm Syndrome” in a long term marriage will coerce us chumps into bending to their will, because that is how life has been lived for several years. It’s tough but stay strong, reject attempts at coercive control and try to revel in your newfound independence and strength.
Stockholm syndrome sums it up. D day was last October…all the usual promises and swore to end it. Started it again 8 weeks later a week after a family Christmas I hosted, and when I found out in April was shocked when I filed for divorce! I mean, what did he think would happen? I asked him and his answer was, ‘I didn’t think’. Total ‘I’ve got away with this forever’ arrogance.
After my male ex moved to a single females complex, he had all his new furniture delivered here, without my consent, because the delivery drivers wouldn’t carry it upstairs to him, and it would have been left in the snow. I found out when I opened my front door and the giant boxes propped against it fell on me. My lawyer said that although I was unasked and unwilling, I was responsible because it was delivered here, and I had to drag it inside. The boxes filled my foyer and front hall until he sent someone to pick it up.
Kate, please connect with domestic violence services and find out what you need to do to stay safe. He’s already hit you and you know he rages when he’s anxious. He also is most dangerous when he thinks he’s losing control of you, and you moving on and moving out out may increase his violence.
Why do you think you have to stay with him until the house is sold? If it’s because you need the money for a new place, perhaps you can stay with a friend meanwhile. Another alternative is a short-term, month-to-month- furnished rental while you wait for your home to sell.
Since he’s retired, view the times he’s away as the times you can gather the documents and personal items you need, and bring them secretly to a storage unit or a friend for safekeeping. Absolutely do not let him know you’re doing this.
Since you previously filed and then changed your mind, he may believe you’ll do the same again. Reality will hit when he sees you take steps to get out from his control, and that’s when he’ll be more dangerous.
Stay strong and stay safe.
I’m not able to afford a place of my own and I hope he moves in with his thing as her poor elderly husband may actually be dying (currently in hospital). If he doesn’t go I may be able to afford just a room for a few months. I have all the documents thank goodness and he is agreeing to my terms. Leaving me a lump sum for my son, pay for the house repairs pre sale, and a clean break. His woman will take everything so my children will have nothing if I don’t get some money upfront.
He is agreeing to terms that you have vetted with a lawyer?? Or are these terms you yourself created?
(Also, please stop calling yourself “idiot.” 💜)
It was only two months that we lived under the same roof because he wouldn’t leave but it felt like years. Longest two months of my life. I avoided him and left a lot to go on drives or sit in parking lots when he was home. It’s awful, I’m so sorry. But CL is right, the healing will start when you can get away from them.
It’s still school holidays here so all hobbies (ice skating, painting etc) stopped, but with the grandkids school runs starting soon and being able to get out of the house, I think it will be easier. Currently I am decluttering, cleaning and decorating in the house to get it ready for sale, but it’s a slow process as he won’t help. It’s just hard to picture what’s at the end of the tunnel, but I know this won’t be forever.
Kate,
Living with your Cheater can be incredibly damaging to you, so please take care of yourself and, as CL advises, go “Grey Rock” to the max.
In your shoes I would also watch out for signs that he is stalling or sabotaging the sale of the house; he will know that he has a reduced opportunity to control you once that has gone through.
LFTT
He is stalling and refuses to help with the decorating. He says he doesn’t want to divorce and it’s not his idea! So what did he actually think I would do the second time D Day arrived? The cheater and his ***** are twisting the knife daily. Phoning my home for him, staying with him while I was away and much much more. This really is the worst time of my life but everyone I speak to who have similar stories all say the same thing….calm waters lie ahead.
Kate,
Play the long game, deploy “Grey Rock” where you need to and look to a better future that you can build for yourself.
As Churchill sad “When you are going through Hell, keep going,”
LFTT
Kate, please listen to LFTT. He’s a man.
What the actual fuck? Listen to him because he’s a man? What kind of sexist, misogynistic, patriarchal bullshit is this?
D’oh. Should have made that “He’s a man who knows how a man should act.” Did not intend misogyny.
Just want to say, the protestations of love and the promises are just to avoid consequences – it has worked for him before. He doesn’t want you to divorce him and take your half of “his” money (also why your safety is at risk). I’d keep a closer watch on his finances than on his dating shenanigans. I just hope the OW is distracting him from attempts to defraud you of what is rightfully yours.
Here to amplify your post. My ex said a number of things designed to sweeten me up so I’d go along with his idea of how we should split marital assets. Luckily by that time I was immune–I used to quote that line from Star Wars to myself: “Your Jedi mind tricks don’t work on me.”
Dear Kate…one of the hardest periods in my life was the 5 months that we lived together until the apartment was sold. He refused to leave. It was the early pandemic (no vaccines and people dying in hospitals on ventilators) and he was going out at night attending drug fuelled sex parties in one of his boyfriends’ apartment, or in local hotel rooms. He was 61 and acting like he was 16. He was auditioning several men as my replacement.
As usual, he was leaving all the heavy lifting to me. I had to arrange for the divorce mediation and lawyers, I had to pack and sort the contents of the apartment (with 20 years of accumulated stuff), I had to work with the real estate agent to stage and sell the place, and I had to organize both of our movers. Since Ontario has no fault divorce and I was the bigger earner, I was financially vulnerable in the Separation Agreement. Consequently, I did not want to antagonize him. I felt I had to be “nice” to achieve a favourable settlement.
His behaviour was exposing me to Covid 19, possible illness and even death. Didn’t seem to bother him in the least. Their words mean nothing. Pay attention to their actions. Ask me how I know.
The only things which kept me sane were my therapist (who I met weekly online) and telephone calls to close friends and my mom. I vented and raged a lot. At the time I knew nothing about CL or CN. I wish I had.
Similar here. I’m sorting the house, the sale, the contents and he’s doing very little except seeing this evil woman who makes a habit of targeting married or vulnerable men. Easy pickings. All I want from him is money set aside for our son and half the house, which I paid for equally. My son will lose his inheritance as this woman will get it as the money is just a fraction of what he would have had. I really would love to speak to a therapist, but I have lovely friends and family who let me rant endlessly and who cheer and support me.
You’ve been married for decades. I’m no lawyer but I would bet my last dollar you are owed far more than money for your son and half the house.
Please, please, please speak to a lawyer and hear from them what you can realistically get in a settlement. Hire a shark who will go to bat for you and who knows the law and can help enforce it. Don’t rely on your ex to play fair, because he won’t.
Believe me I don’t expect him to play fair! However I’m only entitled to 50/50 without employing expensive lawyers and frankly, any benefit I gained would be taken in thousands in legal fees. I’d be dead before I broke even. So I’m fine taking half and having a clean break. Anything just to get away from him. Of course I resent the loss of my home and someone (even a FW) sharing half the bills, but my only wish now is to be free.
Whether or not she targets so-called vulnerable men, your husband made the choice to have multiple affairs. You haven’t mentioned legal counsel? Not sure why a fling is getting most of your son’s inheritance? What did a lawyer say?
Here in the UK we have a financial divorce arrangement called a consent order. I have agreed not to take any of his pension in return for him giving me a sum of money (£20K) to put into a bond for his son in lieu of any inheritance in his will. Under our existing wills our son would have received £100K from him on death and the same from me. When FW marries the wh**** all his capital will be left to her. So this way my son at least gets something from his father guaranteed.
This math seems to still highly favour your husband. 50/50 of existing assets doesn’t take into account all the money he spent outside the marriage, is that right? There’s money owed you there. And it seems like 20K is a low figure to compensate for the 200K your son was promised (do you get the house?).
I say this with love and encouragement —
A consent order is basically mediation, something that is mutually agreed upon. I’m not sure why you believe whatever he says about marrying this woman, and why it involves giving away his own son’s inheritance. Why are you assuming he is going to change his will?
I really think a lawyer — or local women’s legal services? as CL advised — is a good idea here.
Remember, you’re also entitled to half of any retirement accounts he has, including pensions.
I believe he can nominate whoever he likes to receive any residual benefits from his retirement pension when he dies, and it will be his wife aka the wh****. If he nominated me (the person who put up with all the fallout from his job problems) it would be an admission of the wrong he’d done me, but I am expecting him to be as evil as he is being now.
This is where legal advice would be helpful. There’s a lot of speculation here: you’re not sure about who legally is entitled to pension (you probably are, given how long you were married), and you’re also dealing with a guy who lies (who knows if he plans to marry her; he may just be saying so to get you to agree to these financial terms quickly).
Kate, listen to the gay man! Chump Nation truly is a rainbow. Every gender, color, creed, orientation: cheating is the same. There must be a FW Manual.
I’m still living with my ex, for the past year, and likely for another 4-6 months unfortunately until we can sell the house. I have no advice because I think I’m doing everything wrong.
You’re doing nothing wrong. The cheater is the only person in the wrong. They and their fellow cheaters are shallow, selfish evil people who care nothing for the pain they cause us chumps. My time scale appears similar so I’m hoping he will just go.
Ronit67. There is not right or wrong. Do what you need to, there is no judgement here. But also, listen to Tracy and the rest of us here with suggestions of gray rock and stuff like that. It will help you while you wait for your house to sell. As long are you are not in danger, like Kate here. But also remember, your sanity and safety are the two most important things and if they are being threatened, then look for a plausible way out – stay with friends, family, etc. there are a lot of resources online, start looking around to see if you can find something that might help. Luck to you!
I kicked out FW 2 weeks after Dday. Luckily, my family owns a property that I told him he could stay in. I was desperate to have him out of the house. Then came 8 months of trying to get him out of the family property while also trying to get him to agree to sell the marital home ASAP. He would not commit to selling the house, nor would he leave the rental property (where he was living rent free). I finally got him out, only to have him declare he would move back into our home with me after his month-long vacation. After wasting money and time getting lawyers involved, I backed off on the idea of filing for an injunction to keep him out of the house. Instead, I decided to use the element of surprise.
I started packing up all my things and informed him that I was moving to the rental property. He reversed course and argued that HE should move back into the rental to make it “easier” for me. Ha! I’m so over home maintenance, not to mention living in a toxic soup of memories in our marital home. The thought of downsizing from a huge house to a lock-and-go apartment was more and more appealing.
I told him the date of my move-out and gave him a heads-up about maintenance chores he’d need to deal with upon his return to our home. Funnily enough, within two days he emailed me to say he’s willing to put the house on the market ASAP. I think the knowledge that I would no longer be babysitting the house made him realize he didn’t want the hassle of it, either. Also, because I stopped reacting to his drama and set a boundary, he lost his narcissistic supply. The fun was over for him.
I need help to get away from the drama too. Her constant calls here, her stated desire to hurt me in some way is more scary than the FW I’m married to. I can get into his phone secretly so I know she hates me for some reason. Maybe because she see me as someone FW will go back to? No way!
This isn’t the first time I’m saying this and it won’t be the last … but boy oh boy I wish I’d had this advice back when I was divorcing the fuckwit.
You are so right and I know it. The sadness is grief at loving someone for so long who never loved me, not truly and not deeply. He is undoubtedly a vulnerable narcissist and as such never had the capacity to love anyone but himself in anything but a shallow way. Gray rock it is going forward about anything except the house, the divorce and finances.
I just want him to acknowledge the years of neglect of me and his children while he pursued bright shiny things. As it is he tells me my withdrawal was the cause of the cheating, while I know it was survival kicking in. All this I need to let go and withdraw again. Again for survival. It simply doesn’t matter, but it’s like an invisible tie to him and the sadness of losing that first love.
The woman he is with married an elderly man a few years ago, for his money (according to my husband). He signed his house over to her and is currently in hospital and extremely unwell. So it looks as though my cheater will be living with her soon anyway, leaving me here and free from both of them while I sell the house and finalise the divorce. I am taking the threat of violence seriously though and if the gray rock doesn’t work or he doesn’t move out, I’m going to look for short term accommodation. Either way, I know the light is ahead of me, I know freedom is better than the paranoid hell of living with a cheater.
Thank you Chumplady!
Do you have a lawyer? You really, really need one to vet everything and make sure you get what you’re entitled to, and ensure he’s not stealing marital assets (which again YOU ARE ENTITLED TO). You may even be able to force your husband to pay your legal fees. Please do some consultations if you haven’t already and see what’s possible.
I’ve spoken to lawyers over the arrangements and it’s a fairly simple process at our age with just the house to divide. Yes, they’ve said take half his pension but I only want money for my son, I can manage on my own pension. By the time I’ve gone heavy legal and an accountant to divide the pension sums, it wouldn’t be worth it. I am being helped buy a new house by my daughter and can pay the bills with my pension and a small job, so it’s not a big deal. I just want away from him and her as soon as possible and without causing him to fight and be awkward. I’ve weighed up the pros and cons and think just escaping this hell is worth walking away. Women have walked away with nothing but the clothes on their back so I feel I’m relatively secure thank goodness. My doctor did say take him for every penny after I had the humiliating experience of a STD test! So I bet it.
Ok, glad to hear you’ve done your due diligence. I hope I didn’t come off as implying otherwise, I’ve just seen too many women get screwed because they didn’t want to “kick up a fuss.” I’m glad you have people in your corner who are helping you!
Same, I commented above before I saw this comment from Kate.
This sounds like something I would have said when I was in the messiest parts of it, so I know both why I wanted to hear him admit what he did and how fruitless of a hope it is to think it will help anything.
My Cheater and I had 3 wonderful kids, worthwhile careers and a good life that he somehow saw as meaningless so he terrorized us with his anger and destroyed us with his betrayal.
He really was the weak link in our family while simultaneously oozing bravado out of every pore so it looked like he was leading us when he was actually victimizing us.
and he never ever ever admitted what he did or how bad it was.
I may lose many of you at this point in my reflection, but (as I have shared before) I am Catholic and believe in Purgatory (Essentially an actual place ad process where we are held accountable for our actions). I dont know exactly what the process looks like, but maybe like him being able to see me sit here and year after year wrote out my feelings of pain and anguish over what he did to me when I was trusting him to do as he vowed in our Catholic wedding 39 years ago. He would know that God gave him everything and he discounted his gifts then shat on them. I doubt that is fun.
I really hope there is some kind of hell for cheaters, but even if there isn’t I hope this pair of lying cheats live in a hell of their own making. Neither have any morals, honesty or loyalty. They have proven that. Ironically they regularly go to a church outside service times to pray and reflect together. I almost fell off my seat laughing at the irony of a vile man cheating on me and a vile excuse for a woman cheating on a dying elderly husband she fleeced for everything.
Also, I am concerned that your next move is predicated on his next move. That is, you are hoping / assuming that he is going to move in with this woman, and then you’ll be free. FWs have a way of doing the opposite of what is expected. This is why it’s key to talk to a DV professional and a lawyer, for your own protection.
I will to see what the risk is. He seems more upset and desperate to keep me by easily flips to anger. If he doesn’t move in with her soon I may just find somewhere else.
“He is undoubtedly a vulnerable narcissist” He is an A-hole. This guys is using you, cheating on you and hit you. He has zero redeeming qualities. I am sorry, I know that is hard to hear, but it’s the truth and he is showing you EVERY day with his own actions. Me and my EXFW#2 were married 30 years and I get it, it’s hard to leave someone you loved with your whole heart, and a shock to find out they didn’t love you in return, or at least, not enough to choose not to cheat and treat you badly. But like Tracy says, getting away from him will be liberating in ways you won’t expect until it happens. The freedom from all the abuse will be amazing, you will see. It won’t happen until he is gone and yes, from time to time I think of my ex, who I thought he was – and I mourn that guy, not the guy that showed me who he really was.
My FW’s affair partner is ugly on the outside as well, but she is also ugly on the inside. Only disgusting and despicable, sick people partake in affairs and cheat, help ruin other peoples lives from the shadows. She was nothing special and will always be settling for shitty men that aren’t worth the time of day if they are willing to cheat on their wives. She won a sparkly turd, just like yours. Congrats to both of these crappy women.
You are a lovely person who deserves better, remember that! Let these fools continue on their path of ill repute and continue to F*ck up their lives! Haha on them!
Everything you say resonates with me. He’s not the man I married even if he was genuine then. He’s a stranger who didn’t care at all about me and how this would affect me. He sees it now but it’s too late. I don’t want someone who never cared for me. It hit home when I pointed out all the families destroyed by his OW. As a child he was traumatised when his parents argued and would wait terrified his father wouldn’t come back. So what about the children she did that too whose dads never came back?
All of us here can relate to your story on this blog, unfortunately, maybe not exactly as we all have different experiences, but we still can. And I am sorry you are here in one respect, because that means you were chumped, but I am also glad you found this wonderful community. We are all here for you and have true empathy for what you are going through.
As far as childhood trauma, I am no stranger to that as I came from a very abusive childhood. There is NO EXCUSE for infidelity, which is done with intent and conscious decision. Not even childhood trauma, it’s not an excuse to abuse others or most certainly not the person(s) closest to you that you claim to love. I know you aren’t making that excuse for him, but sounds like HE makes that excuse for his rotten behavior, which is very common. Justification, rationalization, excuses…anything will do in their mind.
Very much he uses his childhood as an excuse for his behaviour. He says his parents were uptight and his father strict and they didn’t talk about their emotions, but weren’t abusive. I knew his mother as a kind and caring woman so don’t see why he says this.
absolutely this does not excuse his cheating. I had a similar upbringing as was normal then, and never wanted to cheat. His behaviour is all about self gratification with no care for the outcome. The only reason he cares now (about himself) is he’s lost his family as they are disgusted with his behaviour, and all he’s known for decades is going and he hates change.
This is a dangerous time for you, the most dangerous time ever for a abuse victim. And why would you believe anything he says about the OW? You are literally living with the enemy. Reinstate the PO and kick him out of the home
He is not — has never been — “vulnerable” in any way. He warrants no pity whatsoever.
Sorry, just calling that out because any degree of pity for him is a slippery slope. He will exploit any opening, so correcting those kind of distortions is essential.
I pity and hate him in equal measures at the moment, and never never would I stay don’t worry about that. He’s weak and pathetic but I’m walking away for ever.
According to Martha Stroud (author of The Sociopath Nextdoor), pity is the calling card of the disordered. They want to see if your empathy synapses are firing and you’re good chump material.
I’m good chump material for sure. Forgiving and blinkered in equal measures. But no more. Taken long enough but never going back to anxiety and paranoia land
Your withdrawing doesn’t “cause” him to cheat. The cheaters always come up with reasons to blame you (mine told me it was because I don’t eat sushi 🙄)
And it doesn’t make sense. Imagine if you’re in a loving committed relationship, and you sense your partner is withdrawing. What would you do? You’d check in with them, see what’s up, try to support them. You wouldn’t cheat on them.
Cheaters cheat because of entitlement. They want to. They feel like they deserve it. Period.
Hang in there. It is so much better on the other side. You have to get him out of your living space, and then get him out of your head. Evict! Sending you strength.
“I just want him to acknowledge the years of neglect of me and his children while he pursued bright shiny things. As it is he tells me my withdrawal was the cause of the cheating, while I know it was survival kicking in”
I am afraid it is highly unlikely that he will ever admit to any fault or failing. If these people were capable of such honest introspection they would never have done these things to you in the first place. Do not look to a FW for closure. Closure is getting out and starting a new and better life.
Also you need to escape from his narrative that you caused his cheating. No spouse causes the other to cheat. As you know, his cheating is ongoing, and it requires his active and persistent participation. If your FW is like mine, the double life went on before and during the marriage. It will carry on till he draws his last breath. You are not, and were not the cause.
Thank you, and yes, it’s the old ‘closure’ need that’s fuelling my wish to talk to him and just understand why. I don’t need to understand. Every statement will be a lie. He’s demonstrated that a million times. I don’t need closure because there is none. My closure will be no contact and a better life.
I can relate to this because, two years post-D-day and divorce, I still want my X to voice regret for what he has done.
But! When I start thinking this way, I tell myself a variation of the old joke about politicians: Q – How do you know a FW is lying? A – His lips are moving.
My point is, everything my X says is a lie. Even if he said he was wrong, even if he acknowledged what he has done, the 20+ years together he destroyed, etc. — it would be a lie. He would just be trying to get his listener (not me, because I am firmly no contact) to feel sorry for him and think he is a good person. And that is definitely a lie.
Then I can go on with my day.
I am realising this awful truth more and more. He does nothing but lie, then explains he ‘just tells people what they want to hear’ as though he’s doing them a favour, when the reality is he’s telling them what he want them to believe. Make that make sense! It creates confusion and mindfuck on every level.
My first cheater moved out quickly to live with his OW and she kept him focused on divorcing me. We talked on and off but it was a circle and a waste. It was still a relief to have him out. I had a newborn and 6 year old to focus on. He gave me a gift. #2 cheater was so unhinged when his mask flew off, that he was a danger to humans and animals. I locked him out with a court order and protection order. I would have gone bonkers to have him in the house and he likely would have injured me once he realized I no longer worshiped him. No Contact came from CL a few weeks after lock out. She put the steel in my spine. There was no other way.
First place you’re not an idiot. Fuckwits. Fuckwits are the idiots!
You should definitely strongly consider finding someplace else to be while everything gets sorted out, else finding the legal way to get HIM out (he did hit you after all. You are in danger.)
Where you are right now, you are going through some of what is called Euphoric Recall in addiction. You are used to being able to engage positively with him (and it sounds like you gave him most of your life. “Old habits.”) In some small way he is still able to charm you the same way that he did when you were young and in love.
Ask me how I know about that. Hell, ask anybody here.
When I went through something very similar (albeit not as long or messy) my pre-possessing thought was “she is giving MY love away!” I was jealous in a very dysfunctional way-“that was MINE! Give it back! I’m right here!” and the associated feelings of negative self-worth. Having to wake up to it, go to bed to it, come home to it…kept it very, very fresh. It kept the wound open.
When she did leave and my head started to clear (it took a couple of months), apart from understanding how codependent I had become I started to see how valuable that “love” really was: not at all. We were young and in love, too. Over time it became clear that I was a means to an end because well, she didn’t have any intention on making good on her promises. It was whatever she needed to say to keep me compliant and keep her housed and fed. Not a way I ever wish to live again.
The beautiful thing about “change” and “crisis” is that you get to re-evaluate everything. I decided I don’t want worthless things-and that includes her “love” and attention. If a fuckwit can give it away so freely it must not be valuable. I made the decision that I’m not fighting uphill to win the attention of complete self-centered flakes. I have more self-respect than that now.
My reality canary used the word “Interchangeable” to describe fuckwittery the other night and it stuck with me. Yes, your fuckwit has a schmoopie that magically is better than you in all the right ways that he likes (I am going to go with “echo chamber for his violent megalomania”-we Chumps have this nasty habit of standing up for ourselves or having wants and needs of our own.) There will be someone else after her(and someone else after him for her.)
Let her have him-he’s an abusive fuckhead. Sounds like if she’s cheating she’s no prize herself. She will learn what it’s like when there isn’t a “you” around to blame for everything and keep him handled. She has some days ahead of her and you deserve better.
Stay Mighty!
Thank you, I will survive this however long it takes. I really do need to give my head a wobble and realise what worthless scum these pair of cheaters are. They deserve each other. I am gray rocking tomorrow unless it’s about practicalities.
What is your “reality canary”? I’m intrigued.
The friend of mine that introduced me to this community. To my knowledge they never post or read here anymore having achieved their own Tuesday. I look up to them in that regard. They check up on me sometimes still. They have a way of keeping me grounded and providing needed perspective as I continue this journey. Everybody needs at least one!
Thanks!
I keep saying “Iisten to the men” because internalized misogyny. Sometimes women in crisis won’t listen to their own sex. There’s no hatred like self-hatred.
I am always happy to bring the perspective of both the “guy chump” as well as “mental health professional with longstanding experience in trauma informed care, abusive relationships, and treatment of PTSD.”
I had a client once that tried to laugh off being thrown from a roof by her boyfriend. You skill up as a therapist when you have to keep calm when they are trying to justify it as “only one story for the fall.”
Holy jumpin’ Jehosaphat! Okay, our own HoaC comments about captor bonding, about how the abused party says things aren’t that bad. It’s part of the coping/survival mechanism. But still! It must have been a real challenge, keeping your therapist mask on.
Hi Kate:
I hope you tell the OW’s husband: even though sick he has a right to know, just like any other chump. And given how these people lie, he might not be dying at all.
My husband intended to live in our marital home while we divorced and it was sheer hell until he was removed for making threats to my life. When not making threats he kept us both entertained by talking about things like how I couldn’t have medical insurance because he planned to remarry and needed it for her. He also went into a frenzy of bad mouthing me to any and all, in my hearing. I agree with the other chumps to leave if there is any way possible for you to do so. A women’s shelter is better than living with a mad man, and some of them are connected with people who can provide legal help and advice, which it sounds like could be helpful to you.
You are no idiot. But a man who abuses and leaves a loving spouse to commit infidelity with a married woman who is gold-digging a dying man is indeed an idiot. We all know how it ends for him, which is not well. But you will be living your new and serene life when that implosion happens, than goodness.
Hugs to you as you navigate this painful road. At the end is your better life.
Thank you. I can’t tell the old man, he really is ill and in hospital at the moment. I wouldn’t want another human being to suffer the pain of betrayal at the end of their life. He’s 93. The cheaters are despicable excuses for human beings who actually meet in a church and pray! You can’t make it up! The irony completely escapes them. I know I’ll get to the end of the tunnel and the light but as we all know this tunnel is a dark night of the soul. It’s support from friends, family and even strangers that helps
The OW’s husband’s heirs have a right to know.
A couple of coping skills for living with a FW before divorce here, but you all probably did these as well: at the very least move your sleeping arrangements to another room. Stock that room with whatever you might need besides the basics of clothing and electronics, e.g. water bottles, non-perishable food, books. I worked from home and he did not, so during the day I had the run of the house, but as soon as I heard the garage door lift up in the evening I grabbed whatever I was doing and ran to my bedroom. I stayed there pretty much until he left the next morning. Like being in prison, but so worth it. Also, put some necessities in your car so that if you can’t take the tension inside the house anymore you have a mobile sanctuary. Scope out a place in your town where you can safely park and nap, or read, or go for a walk, or window shopping, or whatever you need to do. For those of you with friends or family nearby ask to be able to stay a night or two just to get a break. Also, a warning: my lawyer told me under no circumstances to move out of the house because my FW wanted the house badly. He wanted to move Mrs. Bendover in asap. My lawyer figured that was really the only leverage I had to get him to negotiate quickly and fairly. She was half right: the settlement was fair, but he dragged it on for just over a year. (This advice would absolutely change if there was DV going on of course.) So check with your lawyer before doing anything you may regret.
I’ve pretty much got that organised and once the house is ready for sale I’ll be moving into my bedroom immediately.
I appreciate the financial difficulties of moving out, but could you stay with a friend or family member until the house is sold?
I know that moving on is scary and sense that a small part of you is clinging to this marriage despite what you know to be true: that he continues to abuse and devalue you.
He’s a liar and a master manipulator.
You did not make him cheat.
You deserve better.
You have every reason to be scared and even stuck. I get it. I began again at 60 after 35 years of marriage. Within 9 months of d-day, I’d sold two homes, moved to the city, and got divorced.
What finally helped me heal was distance—true apartness—and no contact.
You’re stronger than you think. Good luck.
Thank you. Yes my plans involve distance and not allowing him to know where my new home is. Bliss.
Kate:
Please don’t beat yourself up. I left when I was 64, and was with my then-husband for 40 years, 36 of them married. My entire adult life. Detaching from someone you’ve spent decades with, even after you put down the spackle brush, is not something you do without an internal struggle.
Like you, I learned to live in and despite a bad marriage, and carved out for myself a satisfactory separate life. Only my now-ex’s throwing wide open the door of his secret sexual basement motivated me to finally leave and divorce him. It still took me three years, and during that time, for a long time, I, too–like you–would lie beside him in bed wanting him to reach out to me.
It finally dawned on me that asking for comfort from the man who was the source of the pain was not only futile but also a form, inadvertent though it was, of pain-shopping. That was when I began to absorb CL’s lesson of “trust that he sucks,” which gave me the new lens through which to see him, and enabled me to develop a different set of expectations of and from him. I credit that new perspective with giving me the ability to make the last steps needed to leave.
Even if you think you have to live with him until the divorce, please take some time away: take a cruise, visit relatives, do whatever your finances will support. Time away gets you out of his sphere of influence and allows for breathing room and a new perspective.
I currently have a separate bedroom and go away whenever I can to family to get some distance. I made a good life for myself that distanced me from him but living together
. I was fine for years but in total ignorance of the dating websites and other women. I thought he was just enjoying hobbies and friends too and we got along well enough in the home. So all that distancing and emotional shut down on my part has been ripped open by the loss of my marriage, stability, my home and financial security as well as the heartache of betrayal in the cruelest way possible. Finding out about his double life and being degraded and humiliated by him it just too much to cope with all at once. I think once I’ve come to some kind of terms with it, it will be easier.
After my parents agreed to divorce, my mom rented an apartment, packed up what she figured was her half of their stuff, and moved out. I asked her why, and she said she figured my dad wouldn’t move out of their house. And I think she was right.
I am also still living with FW, and it’s horrible. I try my best at grey rocking, but slip up every once in a while with his constant blame and vitriol pointed at me. He is constantly saying I have “draconian” views and “controlling” behaviour while he is only trying to make “friends” and that we have never had a true marriage even though it’s been 25 years and we have a 15 year old kid.
He will never willingly leave the house as I am the breadwinner. His imaginary online women certainly aren’t going to take him in. So I am stuck with doing all the work of arranging for a mediator and trying to come up with an offer for a payout that I hope he will accept, while I get constant criticism, blame, and under-the-breath jabs.
One of his “friends” is supposedly a lawyer, so why doesn’t she help him out? In the meantime, I have quietly changed my paycheck to deposit to a non-joint account and removed him as a beneficiary for my life insurance. Small steps but at least I know I am moving towards something and that he can’t steal money to pay for his online “friends”.