My Dad Left My Mom for Another Woman and Then Came Back
Her dad left her mom for another woman he says he just met that week. And then before the family can process his abandonment, he returns.
***
Hi Chump Lady,
I’ve been obsessed with trawling through the archives of your blog for a few months now. I had a blow-up fight with my narcissist father in October and went looking for things to help explain why he behaves the way he does. He’s very charming, a beloved teacher in a small community, but fits of rage and icy silence throughout my childhood, blaming my mom for everything, etc. You know the drill. My mom is 10 years older than him, now retired. She had me and my sister in her early 40s and they have been together 30 years. My sister and I don’t live in the same country as them.
Today, my mom calls me to let me know that my dad is leaving her for a (younger, obviously) woman that he met a week ago (!!!).
He moved out of the house today, but he’ll be moving back in temporarily when she goes on an extended visit to see her siblings / my sister and me in a couple of weeks. She told my sister earlier this week and has been talking to her, but she knew I’d be furious at him (he and I have been estranged since October), so she waited to tell me until it was certain he was leaving.
After bursting into tears and cursing his guts, I started giving her advice from your blog. Don’t trust anything he says, consult a lawyer ASAP, get everything in writing, see a therapist, get an STI test, lock down her financial accounts, don’t let him stay in the house when she’s away, etc.
Her reaction is: yes, he’s doing a terrible thing, but he must really think he’s found the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with, otherwise he wouldn’t do something so drastic. My mom says he’s not a bad person, and she insists that he would never screw her over financially or refuse to move back out of the house when she returns from her trip, etc. She says he’s been faithful to her for 30 years. I don’t believe any of that — I’ve read too many of the articles and comments on your site. I told her she needs to prepare for the worst and protect herself.
Maybe it’s too fresh for her to see him for who he really is.
But my advice to her doesn’t seem to be going through. She keeps defending him and saying she knows him better than I do. She plans to keep things exactly as they are — stay married, not sell the house — until she’s back from her trip. I don’t know if that’s because she’s hoping he’ll change his mind, or because the idea of setting lawyers and financial advisors in motion is too overwhelming for her right now.
I don’t know how I can support her and keep her safe when we don’t live in the same country. She bristles and detaches when I say negative things about him or warn her against him. But it’s hard to rein myself in when I feel so strongly about this. I don’t want her to stop confiding in me. Yet, I also don’t want her to end up taken advantage of by two terrible people who clearly don’t give a shit about her best interests. She’s the most incredible person and the best mom in the world and I am so worried about her.
Do you have any advice for how to approach these conversations with her?
I wish I could send her Chump Lady articles. But I think she may not be open to your ‘fuck him!’ tone that I personally appreciate so much. Mostly, I want her to have access to the practical information she needs in order to stay safe, and I want her to actually use that information. Where should I start? And what can I do for her behind the scenes, even if she doesn’t want to make any sudden moves?
Thank you so much for your blog, Tracy. It’s been a real solace to me over the last few months, even though I’m not a chump. I guess maybe I had a premonition that, given what a piece of shit my dad is, I might need this information at some point… I just didn’t think it would be so soon or so out of the blue.
Best,
Daughter of World’s Best Mom
UPDATE:
Less than 24 hours after moving out, my dad is back. Apparently, he dumped the other woman. He is back in the house, claims he’s “broken” and needs help, and finally agrees to go to therapy after months of lying about making an appointment.
My mom says she knows my sister and I won’t agree with her choices, but she can’t “abandon” him.
(Even though he abandoned her!!!) because she loves him and he’s emotionally a mess right now. She said if they end up splitting in the future, (which she admits might still happen), this way she’ll at least have some agency in the decision, rather than being left for someone else. She says she’s giving him six months to show improvement, or she will pursue a divorce.
I know that it’s really common for cheaters to come crawling back, and for betrayed spouses to take a while to follow through on cutting them off. Still, it’s really disheartening to hear. I told her again today that she still needs to plan for the worst-case scenario. She should still see a lawyer and make an exit plan so that whatever happens, she’ll be empowered to do what’s in her best interests.
I’m worried that now they’re back together, she will be even more resistant to taking those steps.
I can’t help but feel we’re going to be back in this exact situation in a few months, but who knows what mess he will have made in the meantime.
I’m really looking forward your response, as well as any insight that commenters can offer. It’s just a whirlwind — things are happening so fast, and I’m so worried about her, and I feel kind of helpless.
***
Dear Daughter of World’s Best Mom,
You feel helpless because you are in fact helpless. But we’re here to help you endure the suck that is Zero Control Over What Other People Do. Especially those you love. And focus on those things you do control.
You don’t control whether your mom takes your father back. You don’t control your dad’s cheating. And you have no ability to make your mom act in her own best interest.
Well, you’re a refreshing cold bucket of water, Tracy.
It’s kind of my brand.
When your dad left your mom, it must’ve felt like liberation and relief. Finally, a transgression that registers. The tipping point toward freedom. It’s a sad state of affairs when your children fervently wish you’d break up. But it sounds like your parents’ marriage has not been a good one if you’ve been googling articles on narcissists and washed up on our shores.
You and your sister escaped and live overseas. I totally understand the desire to have your mom escape too, but there are powerful forces keeping her stuck. Let’s go over a few of those and then we’ll get into what you can do.
She has deep sunk costs.
For 30 years she’s put up with “fits of rage” and “icy silences.” That’s a long pattern of abuse, now add in cheating. (I call bullshit that he met another woman a week ago and just left.) I hope infidelity is the catalyst to get her to leave — the devaluing is complete. But it’s very difficult as a chump to pivot away from the mindfuck that this is all her fault and she can fix it.
Now he’s sorry. Now she’s won the pick me dance with the affair partner. How can she give up now?
Societal messages tell her divorce makes her less than.
Marriage is still a status symbol. No matter the quality of your marriage, as a woman, you’re still perceived by much of the world as a more valuable and upright person if you’re partnered. You say he’s charming and beloved? Right now, she’s Mrs. Charming and Beloved. A wife. A mother. She may feel like she’s trading 30 years of status to be a nobody.
She’s financially vulnerable.
Just when she can retire, she’s facing being single. Rightly, she may worry if she can financially make it without him. Now factor in 30 years of messages from him that she’s nothing without him. (Which is the flip side to Everything Is Your Fault — The FW Is Indispensable.)
She’s in the bargaining stage of grief.
It could be that your mom feels paralyzed. She just had a D-Day and is reeling from sudden abandonment. Now, she’s whipsawed because her cheater’s back. Many of us react to this kind of trauma by checking out. We freeze. Now factor in the terrible Reconciliation Industrial Complex advice to not do anything for at least a year, 60 days, or whenever Jesus rises from the grave, sees his shadow and we have 6 more weeks of winter. It’s good to be frozen! Stand for your marriage!
There are a lot of forces that keep chumps stuck.
I’m just spelling this stuff out for you because your frustration shines through. ACT ALREADY! LEAVE THE BURNING BUILDING! I get it. I started a blog precisely so I can scream daily into the Internet void. Leave cheaters! Build a better life!
But I don’t control if they do, and neither do you.
So, aside from starting your own blog, Best Mom In The World Won’t Take My Advice dot com, what can you do?
Accept that even though your dad left your mom, they’re entitled to their shitty marriage.
They get to have agency. To be fuck-ups, to be perpetrator and victim. I’m not saying these roles are equal — they’re not. He’s the abuser. I’m saying your mom has free will and leaving has to be her choice.
I see you working the persuasion angle. Marshaling evidence. Giving advice. But you haven’t lived this. Send her to CN, precisely because we HAVE lived it. Or get her on Reddit. Or the Runaway Husband community. Peer support and voices from other people who’ve navigated this can get through in a way you cannot.
When I went through this, all the peer support online was predicated on reconciliation. Much of it still is, but it was still invaluable to talk with other chumps. And inevitably those kind strangers had failed reconciliations, as did I, and we lifted each other out. Now, there is much more awareness and diversity of opinion around infidelity. Direct her to fellow chumps.
Draw your own boundaries.
Your mom is entitled to her shitty marriage AND you’re entitled to not hear about it. You might get to the point where you say to your mom, “This relationship is unhealthy. It hurts me to see you treated this way, and if you’re not going to leave dad, stop talking to me about it.”
You’re not your mom’s therapist. I applaud your empathy, but your mom has online communities, therapists and friends to slop her grief on. It’s not your job to help your mom heal, it’s HER job. You’re allowed to have your own drama-free life and distance yourself as much as you need from your dad.
It’s a balancing act, because abusers keep their victims isolated. And you want to keep the door open, but you also want to levy a consequence that matters — “I cannot listen to this if you’re not going to act.” Or “Mom, you’d never want me to put up with this. I wish you’d love yourself as much as you love me.”
Daughter, I really hope your mom does the right thing. Be patient and do direct her here. If she can tolerate 30 years of abuse, she can handle a few F bombs. ((hugs))
Tomorrow’s podcast is with Dr. Emma Katz on coercive control. It would be a really good one to forward to Daughter’s mom.
this is a great episode.. had to split it up as it was a bit triggering still even 3 years out. I love how Dr. Katz lays out how insidious this behavior is and how we get trapped without even realizing until you’re stuck and have to literally drag yourself out of it somehow. Thank you for all you do Tracy!
It was a spot on podcast last week!
So looking forward to it. 😀
Daughter of World’s Best Mom,
You got some good advice here. I just want to mention another website that your mom might find more palatable-same message but gentler tone: Your Story is Safe Here. https://www.yourstoryissafehere.com/
The author, a pastor, hasn’t been actively blogging much but she’s a wonderful writer and there are many beautiful articles in the archives about valuing yourself. And, if it would be helpful, she does counseling (via video) too.
Thank you so much for this resource – the counselling part might be especially helpful, actually.
My mom is also very introspective and reads a lot of books, does a lot of journaling, etc. Are there any ‘workbooks’ that you know of with prompts for thinking through her values, fears, hopes, etc? I do think she might still be in shock since this happened just a week ago, and she’s still processing it I’m sure.
Hello DWBM – My (best) daughter bought me a workbook some time ago titled “Healing Through Words” by Rupi Kaur. It is a collection of guided writing exercises; I’ve found it interesting, but my favorite way of journaling is to just sit and write and write and write. Anyway, checkout the Rupi Kaur book, it may be just what you are looking for.
Years ago, when I worked at Johns Hopkins, someone was doing a study on helping health care providers heal after trauma from being attacked by patients or their family members, from the trauma of losing a patient or from the aftermath of traumatic codes or other incidents. They’d take the staff into a conference room and sit us down with a pencil and a stack of paper and tell us to write for 20 minutes. “Write whatever comes to mind,” they’d say, “Even if you’re just writing “I don’t know what to write” over and over.”
Their statistics (and I don’t remember exact numbers) showed that the writing exercised helped the providers recover from the trauma more quickly and there was decreased depression and fewer suicides.
Since then, I’ve dealt with recovering from negative incidents of any kind by sitting at the computer and typing for at least 20 minutes. Often, I don’t understand the source of my anger or sadness, or what I want to say when I sit down. Inevitably, though, after typing for a few minutes that, “this is stupid, I don’t know what to say,” I’ll find myself typing about the actual thing that’s bothering me. Often, it was something relatively “minor” that I didn’t even realize was bothering me until I started to write. Once it’s out and in front of me, it’s much easier to deal with whatever it is.
Writing works.
I absolutely agree Ruby – writing works. I’ve actually got two journals, one is on my laptop where I type out things that happened during a month, focusing on the “facts of the case” as it were. But I also have a hand-written journal where I write more about my emotions and thoughts. For me there is something vital about hand-writing things out. It seems to bring more clarity to my feelings than typing would. I also just learned a technique where you hand-write a question to yourself using your dominant hand, and reply to yourself with your other hand. I can’t remember the brain mechanism behind it but it works for me, regardless that it is nearly painful to write with my non-dominant hand. I’m surprised at what pops out on the page, maybe you should try it.
I used to write my journals, but my arthritis has gotten worse and it’s painful to hold a pen. My right thumb doesn’t work very well. So I type, and I’m grateful I can still type. Surprisingly, the typing works even better than the hand writing did because I can type faster. I still can’t keep up with my thoughts, but it’s getting closer!
A workbook like that sounds like a wonderful idea. I’m sorry I’m not familiar with any-it’s not something I’ve looked into. I hope someone else in the Chump Nation community will chime in with a recommendation!
Winnie, thank you for mentioning my dear friend Diane’s blog to DWBM. She is a treasure and I think her message and her personal story will resonate with DWBM’s mom. Diane also did a segment on Chump Lady’s podcast so DWBM’s mom should check that out as well.
Exhibit #99807 as to why it’s not a good idea to “stay together for the children.” Yeah, even if they’re adult children. This LW also shows how even adult children can be devastated by what cheating does to their family.
Dear Wonderful Daughter, I have a wonderful daughter, too. She begged me for a few years to leave her father. It took some time, but I finally did. The biggest thing you can do for your mom is to keep loving her and keep the lines of communication open with her. It’s hard to change from married with no plans to end the marriage to realizing that your husband is a bad person and you have to leave. Even when I knew he was “in love” with someone else it was difficult to realize my marriage needed to be over.
And if any chumps are reading this…when your kids ask you to leave their father, it’s a sign.
I didn’t beg my mom to leave my dad, but I did suggest to her that she should. As it turned out, she was already thinking about it. He was unfaithful, thus my screen name, but he was also an alcoholic.
This was really moving and really heartening to read, thank you. I know my mom worries that I’m judging her for staying, or that I’ll love her less because of it – but I’m so angry and disappointed (at him, not her) BECAUSE I love her so much. It makes me really sad to think of her stuck in this awful ‘new normal’ for any longer, but your comment gives me hope that just because they’re back together now, she might change her mind in the future.
It can feel counter intuitive when you want to scream at her like she’s trapped in a burning building, but it takes an average of 7 attempts for a survivor to leave an abusive relationship. Realize that this is a long road with no quick exit.
She already has one person screaming at her, invalidating her decisions, and likely making her not trust herself. Sometimes taking a step back and supporting *her* choices, even if you disagree.
Be the opposite of her abuser, tell her things like “I stand by what I’ve already said about this, but I love you and I know you have your reasons. I respect your decision to do this. You are the best Mom I could ask for.”
Tell her she is strong, that she is capable. That you may not always agree, but she gets something from this you can’t see, or she knows she has to leave but simply isn’t ready.
She may never be ready, that’s not a journey you can walk for her.
But you can include her in your life. Build her up, have conversations and experiences that don’t include him. Give her room to be her own person as she walks this path.
These are your Parents, you are allowed to say “I don’t feel comfortable talking about this, but I want you to get support.” Or “You know how *I* feel, but how do you feel about this?” Sometimes our own outrage also takes up space so the person we mean to support feels suddenly defensive of their choices and has no space for their own feelings.
Take a step back, vent to your support system, and be calm and curious about her and how she feels about this. “That doesn’t sound like a healthy behavior, what do you think?” Or “That sounds scary, what do you think you’ll do next?” Or “What would you say if my Boyfriend did that to me?”
The night I had to pull my father off my mother, because he had her down on the kitchen floor and was strangling her, I begged her to leave. She didn’t. She stayed another dozen years. But after 30 years of marriage she finally did leave him, when he threatened to harm my then teenage sister.
Wonderful Daughter, the home life and treatment you describe, along with your father’s narcissism and volatile behavior, has me wondering whether he might have an undiagnosed mental illness. My father was bipolar (he was also a cheater), and a lot of what you say I recognize from my own childhood, although we didn’t understand what drove him to act as he did for decades. With my dad, he became worse and worse over time, until he became paranoid (it was then my mom left him). He never accepted anything was wrong with him, but it was helpful for my mother and me to have a framework for understanding his behavior.
I think he almost certainly does – she’s been trying to get him to get help for ages but he always lies about making therapy appointments and takes meds inconsistently, etc. My sister told me he’s already reframing the abandonment as a “manic episode”. But even if he’s ill, he has had a responsibility over the last 30 years to get some help and stop lashing out at people (notably, never anyone but the three of us). Do you have any thoughts about how to communicate with my mom that she doesn’t owe it to him to stay with him even if he IS bipolar or otherwise I’ll?
It is telling that you say he only lashes out at the three of you. This is clearly a choice he is making, which points to a Personality Disorder rather than a mental illness like bi-polar. People with mental illness are not able to appear “normal” at will. They will do/say odd things with everybody because of, say, the voices telling them to. One of my dear friends has bipolar and she can be really spiky st times but she is like that with everyone. What she is NOT doing is picking on her partner and then being charming to others. Check out the Out of the FOG website that has amazing info and resources for people who have disordered family and friends.
I thought Tracy’s comments about her own marriage to a mentally ill man were very good ones. You can’t help a mentally ill person who doesn’t want to help themself, and you don’t owe it to them to stay and let them harm you and your family.
Here’s the thing: bipolar escalates over time. My father’s paranoia took over his entire life. I believe that his disordered jealousy of my mother when they were younger was the first instantiation of his paranoia. Eventually he thought people were following him and watching him 24/7. He believed they were sabotaging his aircraft (he was an exploration geologist who worked in the bush in Alaska). He lost most of his business from his erratic behavior and wild accusations. He believed people were hiding in closets, and if he entered a room in which he’d turned off a light and it was then on, he thought “the kooks” had done it, so he hooked up a makeshift cannon with a tripwire aimed at the front door to catch anyone who might come in. At one point he was roaming the hills at night naked except for his boots, and was seen by two teenage girls, who reported him to the police (he was not identified).
My point is this: Your father is having manic episodes in which he hooks up with a girl half his age and runs off with her, and he, and this kind of erratic behavior is only going to get worse. This puts your mother in a precarious and dangerous position. If you can communicate to her that your concern is for her safety, not just physical but financial and legal, and gently point out that your father’s behavior has already damaged your family by making it necessary for you to separate yourself from him, what you say can be part of what might add up in your mother’s mind until she comes to the point at which she can leave. As I said, my mother couldn’t find the strength to leave until my father threatened my sister with a knife. To protect my sister, my mother could finally act. Your mother will have to have her own inflection point, but what you and your sister say to her might help prepare her to have it.
I wanted to say this, too: your mother may think she needs to stay because he needs help, but isn’t it the case that in other areas of his life he manages just fine? He teaches, he is well respected and liked, etc. As a friend of mine whose husband was a concert pianist used to say, “He can get himself all over Europe to his concerns without speaking the languages of the countries, but at home he can’t go to the store and get all the items on a grocery list.”
I completely agree!! He can manage his life just fine and he can control his mood swings around everyone except… us. No one else has any clue that he’s like this, which means it MUST be under his control to some extent. And he doesn’t need my mom to ‘fix’ him for being ‘broken’. Plus… she’s the one not sleeping, stomachache, brain fog, etc right now – she’s the one who’s ill.
Yes,I think that’s significant.
https://www.chumplady.com/did-she-cheat-because-shes-bipolar/
I never personally experienced this situation as either a child or a married father of three, but Elizabeth Lee, I really think you nailed it on the head with that last sentence; when the kids are asking you to leave their mother or father? That’s a HUGE (no shout out to Trump) red flag. A parent needs to pay attention to that, big time.
I remember asking my mom to divorce my dad when I was about 12 years old. He was an abusive alcoholic narcissist, and, at that time, he had disappeared for about 4 days. I didn’t realize back then that he was likely cheating on her but I knew that he was awful and begged her to leave him. She didn’t. They were married for 50 years before he died in 2020. She lives a much better life now filled with friends and travel, something he wouldn’t allow her to do or have when he was alive. What I find really weird is that she has NEVER spoken to me about my situation with my exFW. She knows what he did and why I divorced him but she doesn’t talk to me about it at all. It’s like she can’t stand that I did what she couldn’t. (Never mind that it took me 30 years, but I did it!) Our relationship is extremely strained.
I’m extremely proud of you, MollyWobbles! (I hope that doesn’t sound patronising. I don’t know how to express myself better. But I just toasted at my screen with coffee when I read your “but I did it!”)
Elizabeth,
On the day that Ex-Mrs LFTT walked out on the 3 kids and I to be with her AP my eldest daughter – then only 19 or so – told me that I should never feel under any pressure from her or her two younger siblings to take Ex-Mrs LFTT back should things not work out for her. I took that as a sign that even our kids knew that we would be better off without her.
LFTT
“ And if any chumps are reading this…when your kids ask you to leave their father, it’s a sign” —> this. I was tolerating so much crap and evidence of cheating during our “reconciliation” until my 25 year old daughter found evidence of his cheating and had to tell me—as she sobbed in my arms, right then and there I decided enough was enough. I was willing to tolerate a sham of a marriage because I was too weak to act, but my daughter being in that situation infuriated me: even if hadn’t stood up for myself, I’d be damned to ever have my kids put in this position again.
Daughter of World’s Best Mom,
You have your mother’s back, which is wonderful. I would simply recommend that you set appropriate boundaries so that this support does not come at an acceptable emotional cost to you.
For what it is worth, I suspect that your mother has yet to internalise what your father’s actions really mean for her. Once the scales fall from her eyes and she starts to see him for who he is, I suspect that she will be more ready to act to protect herself and her interests. That said, be patient, as it may take a while yet for her to “see the light.”
LFTT
Thank you so much for your message. I think you’re right that she must still be processing things, as this all happened within a week, and he just came back a week ago. It’s incredibly fresh, and I know she’s not really sleeping and eating properly either.
I’m nervous about her leaving the house for an extended trip before she takes those steps to protect herself… If I could somehow get those scales to fall from her eyes before then, I’d feel a lot more secure that she won’t come back to changed locks.
DWBM,
I hope that it doesn’t come to it, but it may be that coming back to changed locks is what it takes to dislodge your mother’s scales. She will “see” when she’s ready to. As regards your mother’s sleep/eating patterns, please do what you can do to encourage her to to be proactive in her self care …… the days and weeks after D-Day can exert a huge toll on the Chump.
LFTT
LFTT,
Your reply made me think of the the Fleetwood Mac song, “Dreams.” I never fully understood the line, “when the rain washes you clean, you’ll know. You’ll know” when I was growing up and even into adulthood.
It took the FW XW’s actions against the family and me to grasp this. I think this covers what you’re talking about when you talk about the scales falling from her mom’s eyes or her seeing the light, correct?
TLR,
I had not thought about it in that way. I was being very literal in my posting, but I think that your interpretation is much deeper.
LFTT
Yes, I’ve tried to ask Tracy to clean up on the Fbombs so my church friends can read her unmatchable good advice, amazing humor, fantastic cartoons, and how she is saving all the chumps in the whole world …but Tracy said NO 2x chump this is who I am , you be you, I’ll be me, so please just sit down and be quiet. Well, Tracy was kind but you get it. Anyway, the advice here is GOLDEN not just for Chump moms or dads but for all of us that want to SCREAM and shake these people until they lawyer up and move out!! But I knew I was being abused x2 men and was left by #1… that gave me experience to leave #2. I so appreciate Tracy’s mention of boundaries!!!!! This is the key…telling anyone, any chump….I’ve given you all I know and told you how I feel. My nervous system can’t take hearing about you being abused, you taking crap day in and day out. I’m here for you when you are ready but now let’s talk about that recipe for beef wellington you used to make..move on. Believe me, your mom has a zillion people who will stroke her into staying forever and Bowing down. You are not the only one telling her to leave either. But she chooses right now to stick her fingers in her ears and sing loud. You did the loving thing, now let it go good daughter and wait. Keep loving because your dad will do it again and this time she might have no choice..which is probably what she will wait for. Other sites that have youtubes on leaving I will write below as my phone won’t let me look without messing up my comment. Thank you for loving your mom and caring. Many daughters may not care at all. Bless you for such love..wait for chapter 20, it will come
“I’ve given you all I know and told you how I feel. My nervous system can’t take hearing about you being abused, you taking crap day in and day out. I’m here for you when you are ready but now let’s talk about that recipe for beef wellington you used to make…”
Excellent!
Here are a few authors and youtubes that your mom might identify with.
Gretchen Baskerville author of Life Saving Divorce, she is on YouTube also. Leslie Vernick on Leslie Vernick.com and book author also.
Steps to Freedom by Don Hennessy,
Flyingfreenow.com
Sheila Gregoires book The Bare Marriage. Check these folks out first before you send to your mom. These are a Christian perspective so heads up on that. But the perspective is to leave and lots of warnings if you stay. See if these help you or your mom.
Hoping for the best outcome for your family
Thank you so much. Reading things like Chump Lady makes me feel a little more like I’m actually doing something to help, even if it’s just learning more, so I’ll look into these resources.
Because this one is really triggering for me, I have much less to say than usual. Let’s just say, Tracy is right on the money with “she has a lot to loose and perhaps not enough to gain” (and what she has to gain is intangible – she can only see that once out a long time and looking back detached. Without a long period of no contact it’s close to impossible). Yes, because she would have to admit that three decades of her life were spent with someone who doesn’t love her and may be incapable of loving anyone other than himself. Because she may be alone the rest of her life and there is nothing great about being alone. ZILCH. Betrayal blindness, chemical attachment, psychological attachment, financials, loneliness and lack of day to day care (you live in another country), loss of status… Devaluation and low self-esteem (both that the loss of status of “partner” would bring and what she has already endured for decades).
I tried to get my mom to leave my dad for years. He was extremely abusive physically (we are talking broken bones and bruises everywhere) and emotionally to me and sexually inappropriate (regarding the latter: as was my mom – in different ways though). He was not physically abusive towards my mother, but emotionally abusive to her as well. My mom didn’t leave and didn’t stop my father’s abuse of me because to her, her marriage to him gave her more benefits than being alone – and she just cared about herself more than about me. (Similar story to my aunt whose kids also begged her to leave. She never did.) To be very clear: I am not saying or insinuating in the least that that is similar to your mom! Your mom may truly be the best mom in the world and your dad may have been much less abusive to you. I was also for many years unwilling/unable to see my mom for who she was – again, no similarities to you here. The similarity is on another level: I was unable to fully accept who my mom is because to do so is incredibly painful. And admitting fully who or what your dad is would be similarly painful to your mom.
I am so very sorry that your mother did not protect you. That is beyond awful. I sincerely hope that you are healing well from all this. Hugs.
“Because she may be alone the rest of her life and there is nothing great about being alone. ZILCH.”
Not in my experience. Both my finances and my status went WAAAAYYY UP after I left that relationship. It is “gain a life,” after all.
Found a source for both of us: “Divorce also can be financially depleting. Women 50 and older experience a 45% decline in their standard of living; for men it’s 21% (Lin, I., & Brown, S. L., Journals of Gerontology: Social Sciences, Vol. 76, No. 10, 2021). Other research, based on interviews with 66 adults who divorced at 50 or older, found that worries about finances and loneliness were the two most pressing concerns expressed. But the adults described positive aspects as well, including an improvement in overall happiness, liberation from their ex-spouses, and a sense of enhanced independence and freedom (Crowley, J. E., Journal of Family Issues, Vol. 40, No. 11, 2019).”
Plus: your and my experience is not comparable (so far!) to the mom (on the non-financial side). Why? You, me and all of ChumpNation, we know that it is pretty much never a “once and over” thing, the cheating, we probably know what narcissistic discard is (which is what he seems to have done), all of us who write here know this stuff. We know about the lack of empathy and the lying. We also know that he most likely is just trying to get some ducks in order and isn’t really returning etc. The mom most likely doesn’t know any of that and may even be thinking “oh no, what did I do wrong? I was not xy enough to keep him!” She may even be in Esther Perel territory for all we know. In order to understand what one can gain, she needs our knowledge.
What do you mean by your status went up though?
I mean two things —
That’s really awesome!
I guess something a certain type of isolated disabled folks like me don’t get. Most folks either left my life or I kicked them out – those who left just could not deal with the fact that there was yet more abuse. A certain type of person just can’t deal with the fact that there is no happy end – just more abuse. They’d been extremely happy for me and wanted to believe a lie, very desperately so, because anything else would mean they’d have to give up on their just world logical fallacy. They have course had married off one by one. I was the last one standing and they just wanted “the disabled chick with the abusive family and the workplace bullying” to finally get something. (Those I threw out was for finally understanding that they too are narcs, abusers etc.) My own status is extremely diminished. One of the reasons why I believed him is that I saw myself as lovable. That is a very dangerous belief to have if the outside world doesn’t see you that way. (And I’m of course dealing with all the CPTSD, from sexual abuse, financial abuse… you name it. I’m ultimately dealing with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBbOSSVwIrM No I don’t look like that or act like that and as someone who has worked as a stylist to get some income during studies, have a decidedly different sense of fashion, but he saw me as essentially that. Because everyone else is less than he is, of course. Plus “gross” cause I am not much younger than him, but instead 5 years older. And it was all preplanned for a long time etc.)
Well, I get that. My finances and my status would also be better now than if I had never met FW. However, my finances would have been better than they are now if I had been with FW and gotten a mortgage or shared rent for many years etc. Mine are worse because I don’t have that and have all the financial effects of CPTSD from multiple betrayal traumas, him just being the last one. My mom’s standard of life never recovered to what it was with my dad. And that is a normal, average experience: “In 2019, the median net worth of 25- to 34-year-old married couples was nine times that of single households, per the Federal Reserve Bank.” This gap grows LARGER in later years! (And it is even larger for single parents than for married couples with kids.) To be clear: this is not quite accounting for FW’s with gambling addictions or who spent everything on prostitutes etc. But the letter writer didn’t mention that.
If your choice is between being lonely and alone all the time (granted, I have less support than the mom because the mom has her daughters) and not being that, everyone would choose not being alone. If that option exists, then in a good relationship. If that option doesn’t exist, then in a relationship with no physical violence and a certain amount of devaluation – because frog/boiling water, but also simply because we know roughly what life is like alone.
I was your mom in many ways. I had all the horrible, disgusting evidence right in my hands plus an STD, but after 28 years of marriage I was frozen. He moved out AND wanted to stay married. We could “come back stronger.” I didn’t believe a word he said, and I 100% knew repairing the marriage was doomed, but I wasn’t quite ready or strong enough to file for divorce and leave him. I bought Tracy’s book, highlighted things. Kept it by me bedside. I eventually tired of finding evidence and more evidence and more evidence and having my intelligence insulted by his stupid excuses and gaslighting. It took me a little more than a year to gather the strength to admit I deserved better.
Throughout that time, my daughters were consistent in telling me “he’s just going to to do it again.” My sister kept gently telling me that his treatment was a form of DV (emotional, financial, sexual). These messages are part of what gradually helped me build strength. He didn’t stop cheating, of course, but I never looked at their advice as “I told you so.” It was simply that I needed to hear it in a quiet, loving, and consistent way, so I felt supported and strong enough to believe it myself.
Be there for Mama. Keep telling her she’s worth better. Don’t get exasperated…she’s building her own readiness, and no one can do it for her. Your support will mean more than you know. Sending love ❤️❤️❤️
“Be there for Mama. Keep telling her she’s worth better. Don’t get exasperated…she’s building her own readiness, and no one can do it for her.”
This one brought tears to my eyes. Thinking of it as supporting her as she gradually builds strength is really helpful. It’s hard not to feel helpless, but I know she is already so strong (raised two kids after 40! Moved across the world! And so much else) and I know in theory these things can take time, even if in practice it is mind boggling to me. Tracy’s explanation in the post lays out the many factors that address probably weighing on my mom’s mind right now… It isn’t easy.
I’m really glad you left. ((Hugs)) to you and your daughters.
Spot on by CL as usual. But I would like to add that Daughter and her sister might want to try double teaming their wonderful mom. That might be more effective.
Also I’m wondering if FW dad is actually back home for therapy and reconciliation or if, since it is possible that he actually did meet OW just a week before, he is back home to get his ducks in a row logistically and financially so that he can “adios” when money and property things are better situated for him.
I agree with Best Thing. It’s very possible that cheater dad is returning with promises specifically because Wonderful Mom is still planning the extended visit to Darling Daughters, and he intends to live in the house and use that time to do what he wants with the house: steal assets, remove evidence that he cheated, etc. He could even be planning to move in AP for the duration of Mom’s trip, or permanently. Your mom has only his word that they broke up, and his word is worthless. He may also try to use Mom’s absence as “proof” that SHE abandoned the house/marriage. She may return to find her marriage is over, he’s changed the locks and SHE can’t get back in.
I suggest she postpone the trip. Maybe pretend she’s going, leave overnight and then return to see what he’s doing. Or have Darling Daughters and/or Mom’s siblings come see her, if they can.
I highly doubt that after telling his wife that he’s moving out and divorcing, it took just 24 hours for him to change his mind about leaving her. It’s more likely that he –or AP–changed their minds about leaving the house, and want to keep it for themselves. They may have been planning that all along, and Cheater Dad blew the secrecy in one of his fits of rage. Since you cut him off months ago, he’s probably afraid of the influence you, sis and the sibs would have during her visit about lawyering up, etc., unless she doesn’t listen because he’s convinced her that he left the AP and all will be fine.
Tell her she can hope for the best but needs to protect herself. How about a post-nup?
This is my worst nightmare, honestly – that she’s going to trust him and he’s going to take advantage of that to screw her over. She is retired and he’s not, so she is in a more precarious position, and the house is really important – both because it’s her home, but also a large joint asset. She thinks he’d never do something like that… But he’s already done some crazy things! I don’t get how she can trust him still. I agree that a post nup would be good, but I don’t think she’ll pursue it unless she distrusts him more.
If she does insist on the visit, can you, your sister and her sibs find someone to speak to her about protecting herself? Or set up a family therapy session to discuss your concerns for her well-being? I realize that you aren’t in the same country so the laws will differ, but perhaps you can find a financial advisor who specializes in divorce. There are groups in the US that do this. Maybe even pay for a session with an attorney. You can point out to her that it’s another country, won’t get back to him, can help her prepare if things don’t work out. Make her feel supported, not ganged up on. “You know mom, this is a good time to look at what happens to you if something happens to dad.” “Just in case things don’t work out, we want you to be financially OK.” Since she’s planning to visit for an extended stay, you might be able to get her several appointments with a therapist so she can make some real progress on hos to deal with a difficult husband, if she’s not willing to acknowledge that he cheated and dumped her.
The voice of experience, coming from an attorney or financial advisor, may carry a lot of weight.
Your Mom is lucky to have you in her corner.
So, thanks for this post, Tracy. I WAS in her mom’s shoes not that long ago. As I’ve posted on here before, I was married for over 27 years to a man who did all of these things—tantrums, abuse, financial control, emotional abuse—and he finally got blatant about the cheating (in retrospect, I’m sure he cheated our entire marriage, but just got lazy). The cheating is what ultimately made me leave, but it took me a full year before I did.
We raised five children and at least two of them used to ask me to just divorce him. He’s an asshole!! And like this daughter’s mother, I made every excuse for him that I could. When I finally left him, my three daughters were happy (my sons, not so much, but they get it now).
All five kids have a strained relationship with him. One daughter won’t talk to him at all. He reaps what he sowed with them.
But for years I was beyond guilty for not leaving him sooner and having them grow up with that toxicity. But I also now better understand coercive control and I can totally see why I didn’t. Five kids born in within five years. Told constantly I was a horrible mother (except in the rare instant when he’d say something nice about my mothering). Being slightly put down constantly. Being told I was lazy or stupid or fat. Despite having my own successful career (which he took credit for since he “supported me” when our kids were young and “allowed me to thrive.” I could go on and on. Of course I didn’t have the strength to leave him. I was happy just to get through a weekend without him upsetting us all.
Leaving was the hardest thing I ever did and I only did it once my chickens had left the nest so he couldn’t weaponize them against me or hold them over my head. Was it right to wait? Maybe not, but I get why it took so long and I forgive myself for it too.
It’s been a little over three years since I left him and two years since our divorce, and I’m still not over the PTSD of his abuse. I’m over the sadness of the affair and all that, but it’s going to be a very long time before I’ve healed from 27 years of intense abuse.
So I get it. I wish more of the world understood the underpinnings of coercive control.
“Leaving was the hardest thing I ever did and I only did it once my chickens had left the nest…”
This is a very popular option. I have heard several stories about women (haven’t heard about any men doing this) who waited out terrible marriages until the youngest turned 18, or graduated high school or college. Whether it’s right or not is entirely subjective. Nobody gets to decide for anybody else what is good timing.
Many people stay because they fear the abusive Ex will have total control over the children for some, half or all of the time. I really get that. However, if we are talking Common or Garden FW who is not dangerous, then I’d say get the hell out of Dodge ASAP. My mum left my abusive father when I was 6 and I am forever grateful.
This is very similar to my story, also several decades together. I was mostly a SAHM and faced a major financial crisis if I pulled the plug. He threatened divorce for 15 years to keep me in line and said he’d make me and the kids homeless. I also was a completely rotten parent and useless wife in his eyes.
What ultimately saved me was that HE took off. I gave it a year and worked very, very hard on myself, doing therapy, coaching, and twelve-step group. Then I refused to reconcile and never really looked back. He kicked off the divorce.
However, I was just so stuck on why I had stayed for so long, but over time, I got the control aspect of it. Thankfully, my kids were also over 18, so no custody issues. They’re grown now and are acing adulthood. Both want nothing to do with their father.
“Being slightly put down constantly” is exactly what it’s like for her, I think. He’s gotten worse over the last couple years – he used to just run hot and cold in short bursts (maximum a week), but more recently the nastiness has seeped into the “good times” too. Her personality is changing because she’s always the butt of the joke. I can see how differently she reacts to anyone’s comments now – always on edge, always expecting the joke to be at her expense. It breaks my heart, because she’s naturally very cheerful and confident.
He has some sort of Personality Disorder. I would put heavy money on it. They NEVER change.
Yep. When I first started seeing a decent therapist (also hard to come by), she had me read The Verbally Abusive Partner (I think that’s the title) and I was amazed at how subtle it can be. Arguing over every little thing (I swear, if I said the sky is blue.c he’d disagree), ignoring someone even when you aren’t fighting (I’d tell him about my day and he wouldn’t respond. Then I’d say, “Did you hear me?” And he’d get mad and say of course he heard me. Or just little mean jokes. Made fun of my driving. Goaded the kids into laughing at how goofy I was. Etc. He’d even sound “nice” when he did it, sometimes. Told me I was a huge alcoholic every chance he got and I finally quit drinking just so I could rebut that (he’d make fun of me for being “drunk” and I’d say, “You do know I had only Coke all night, right?”).
But to be clear, I am a leader at work. I have no traits of being this other person at my job and one reason I worked was so I would have at least a portion of my life where everyone thought I was awesome. If she doesn’t have that outlet, it’s even more challenging to get some perspective. She needs a place where she can say, “Okay, well, what he says can’t be allll true because these people don’t think I’m X, Y, and Z.” But then he likely doesn’t want that for her. My ex got furious when I wanted to work outside the home at first. But any other group or circle she can belong to other than with him can give strength. Remind her she is strong. And yes, just love your mama and be there for her when she’s ready.
I also fear your father has another agenda, one that will take advantage of your Mom’s upcoming absence. Could you find a tech savvy person in the city where your Mom lives and encourage her to have some spyware set up? If your father has truly turned over a new leaf, she can comfort herself with proof of that, but if he hasn’t she’ll know that too. If it is a bout of mental illness, she will see that also. I’m also a fan of the comment that she should tell him she’s leaving, leave briefly but stay in a nearby hotel, and see what happens. Perhaps you and your siblings could hire a PI.
Based on my own experience, your mother is virtually certain to find out that the truth is different from what she hopes.
Your Mom sounds like a lovely person, which we know already, because look at her daughter, but I so fear for trusting people whose trust is misplaced. It is so hard for a normal and loving person to fathom the depths that these people can sink to…
Your desire to protect your mother is a very beautiful thing.
Thank you so much for this comment. She is a lovely person, and a trusting one – and that’s why I worry about her. She’s always been a wholehearted, empathetic person, whereas I look into his eyes and I see… a black hole. It scares me. His charm and self-pity channels might keep her looking past the rage one – but that’s him, too, and in my opinion the real him.
When her trip gets a little closer I’m going to talk to her again about the house. At the very least I feel like they should get something in writing before she goes.
I’ve told the story before about how my 4 year old would ask me to get daddy to go away for work again. FW would regularly leave us for weeks at a time, and even my 4 year old knew life was better when he was away.
But the turning point for me, where I chose to never accept a hoover again, is when he asked if daddy was ever coming home. Chumpy me assumed that he missed his daddy. When I apologised and said that I could never let daddy come home because we weren’t friends anymore. And that we would just have to learn to get used to it, he told me (a kid just turned 5), that it was ok and he was already used to it.
That kid was my saviour. Not only did he give me a reason to get out of bed everyday, he helped me truly understand that life was better without his father. That the two of us were always a complete family. And that we don’t need abuse in our life.
You sound like an amazing mom 💞 I really hope that if my parents end their relationship, then I get to live near my mom again soon, because I want to be there for her
“You might get to the point where you say to your mom, ‘This relationship is unhealthy. It hurts me to see you treated this way, and if you’re not going to leave dad, stop talking to me about it.’” This is such a great script! Re-read everything CL wrote here about Boundaries whenever your mom’s cognitive dissonance gets to be too much for you.
You know what your mom’s future holds on her present course. Thank goodness she has daughters who get it! In your shoes, I’d think through some covert strategies of your own to get as much of the present marital funds lawfully and safely away from your dad’s unilateral ability to dissipate them completely, so that your mom will have some money to live on when the inevitable happens. Think about the money first and foremost, and how you might toady up to dad I don’t know, say, to ask for a loan (that you stash away for mom’s future divorce.) Just some non-Chumpy guerilla divorce tactics to consider because you KNOW what her future holds.
Yes, I want to be thinking practically and strategically, even though I don’t know that much about divorce law (and especially not in the county where they live) or even that much about the exact state of their finances. I do know that he handles most of the finances, so I guess my first step might be asking her to make sure her name is on all their accounts and assets at least.
I was my moms therapist for my dads affair at age 12. At one point I asked her why she couldnt go to an actual therapist. She said because then everyone in the community would know. Now looking back it makes no sense. For one she could have found someone who was farther away, long island is very densely populated, so a 20 min drive and you are 3 towns over. Secondly, now I know therapists are not supposed to tell everyone in the community your business. I think she just like me to be her emotional caretaker. Now I know parentification is a form of abuse. She had her issues. At some point I had to move on from them. Physically, and emotionally.
You just have to let your parents go and get your own life. Not caring for your own peace of mind.