Shrinking Is Forgiveness Porn
The Apple TV series Shrinking explores the forgiveness of Terrible Things, including the penultimate unforgivable act of murder.
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I recently finished watching the Apple TV series Shrinking, starring Jason Segal, Harrison Ford, and Jessica Williams as shrinks with messy lives. There’s much to enjoy — snappy dialogue, sexy sex, clever characters. (I relate to Liz and her rock tumbler as a fellow middle-aged mom with a rock tumbler, what are the odds?) So what’s my beef?
Forgiveness.
Shrinking sells the seductive belief that people do terrible things and feel terrible about them. They’re just completely racked with remorse and it colors their whole life and really, only you can stop their suffering. So, just get over yourself already and forgive them. Because they feel terrible. No, worse really.
Halfway through the first season of Shrinking, I realized I was watching forgiveness porn. And, like every good fantasy, I was transported. I could almost believe the fairytale. Like men want to believe that women are hot for pizza delivery boys, with zero foreplay, and come instantly before the pepperoni cools.
People who do bad things aren’t bad, they’re sorry!
This belief has tripped me up my entire life, so no wonder I was falling under its spell. From Frosty the Snowman where the Magician gives back Frosty’s hat and rues his evil ways, to the slave trader turned abolitionist who wrote Amazing Grace I have always been a sucker for a redemption story.
And when I was first chumped, I really believed that deep down, underneath that abusive man who told me he “wasn’t going to kiss my ass” and that I should get over his double life, was a sorry person. Surely, he felt remorse! Sometimes he said he did! Except that I had zero actual evidence of sorry.
Didn’t stop me from believing in sorry. And the Myth of Deep Regret. But I’m not alone in this. Look at the world we live in — especially right now (we are living through a coup in the U.S. as our federal agencies are being unlawfully dismantled) — people who Do Bad Things are flamboyantly committed to their destruction and not one bit sorry about it.
But what about later?
If they get away with it? No. Not sorry. If there’s a lot of consequences for THEM? And the impression management must change? You might get some performative sorry, but I’m skeptical. However, heart-rending-I-cannot-live-with-myself-tormented-by-eternal-regret? Rare! I think we got one Anglican hymn out of it (who saved a wretch like him…).
But Shrinking made a whole TV show out of such forgiveness freaks.
Spoiler alert!
I’m giving away a few plot lines here if you haven’t watched the show. The catalyst of the storyline is that shrink Jimmy’s wife has been killed by a drunk driver and how everyone around him — his neighbors, friends, coworkers, and daughter — are coping. Oh, and later how the drunk driver himself is coping. (Not well! HE IS RACKED WITH GUILT.)
It’s a year after the death and Jimmy has been on a bender of sex workers, booze, and drugs. And is finally remembering he’s supposed to be a parent, and a therapist.
Here are the Amazing Feats of Forgiveness on Shrinking by character.
Alice must forgive her father for reacting to her mother’s death by partying with sex workers in front of her, neglecting her for a solid year, while she’s raised by Liz the next-door neighbor. Jimmy feels bad. He goes to her soccer game. He apologizes! She brings him chicken sandwiches. They are reconciled.
Now the hard forgiveness work must begin. Because BOTH of them must forgive the drunk driver who ran over Mom. It’s essential. Neither of them will move on until they accept this stranger’s apology (they fight over this) and intervene in his life! And become his friend! And be his therapist!
Louis, the drunk driver is played by Brett Goldstein. Who wouldn’t want to save him? He did an entire 10 months in jail for killing a woman. He’s served his time. And hasn’t he suffered enough working as a lowly coffee barista? Only the teenager whose MOTHER HE RAN OVER can save him.
Alice writes Louis a letter. They connect. Become friends in secret, and with the help of Jimmy’s best gay friend, they all laugh and dine together.
Jimmy’s boss Paul (Harrison Ford) is the Obi Wan Kenobi of Therapy. He counsels everyone yet lives in a Fortress of Solitude because he carries a dark secret. He cheated repeatedly on his first wife and when she divorced him, he bowed out of raising their daughter. But it’s okay, he’s had an illustrious career and his punishment is to get Parkinsons in his 80s. His daughter forgives him for his abandonment! She wants to be his caregiver! And his ex-wife comes to a party and she forgives him too! And then befriends his hot girlfriend!
Paul reluctantly apologizes to his ex-wife and she immediately responds with how she wasn’t her best self either.
Forgiveness win! Friendship all around!
Next-door neighbor Derrick forgives Liz for her brief emotional affair and snog with some douchebag who owns a microbrewery. When he goes to confront the douchebag he learns that the guy makes a really great IPA. And appreciates Liz’s amateur dog photography in a way that Derrick has not. He tells Gaby the therapist he should’ve responded to Liz’s cries for help. Because letting her live a life of privilege as a SAHM of three wasn’t supportive enough.
Are we sick of forgiveness yet?
I’m leaving off a dozen other subplots, suffice it to say you should all get over your petty sorrows and have a beer with your oppressor. The Bad Person feels terrible, deep down. No really. He wants to stalk your family home and leave you a note. Maybe confront you with his sadz. This isn’t a boundary violation. It’s a growth opportunity.
CL,
I am thankful that you watched “Shrinking” so that CN didn’t have to! This evening I’ll clean the bathrooms instead of watching this.
LFTT
Yes, medal for courage for taking the hit for all of us.
Great post. Glad I didn’t watch the show now!
I don’t believe in forgiveness. I did a lot of mental gymnastics that were couched as “forgiveness” but in the end I realized what I really needed to do was accept what happened so I could move on with my life. When I listen to people doing interviews that “forgive” murderers it doesn’t sound like forgiveness to me – it sounds more like acceptance. By accepting what happened these people seem to release their anger, hate and they stop dwelling on what happened so they can move on with their lives. Acceptance allows them to choose whether or not they want to talk to the murderer without absolving the person from what they did.
Acceptance is not the same as forgiveness. Acceptance let me evict the memories and thoughts of what happened that were living rent free in my head. I don’t forgive my ex and thanks to this website I was able to get the strength I needed to go completely no contact. She is who she is, she does what she does. None of that has anything to do with me except that I made a choice to be with her. I haven’t accepted that I made that choice yet and that has been a problem lately because I see red and yellow flags with everyone right now. It’s a good thing – until it isn’t.
I too am free in the biggest way- I no longer repeat the abuse, which I did after being left cheated abused etc.. by my husband of more than 2 decades- but am not meh, and he still takes up too much space in my brain. Waiting for Tuesday and grateful to not be in any abusive situation. But not “moved on”. Feel mostly ok with where I am. I think and hope that its just a matter of time.
One of the things I’d like to add to my comment is something I learned from being on this website (there are some great posts on how to fix your broken picker): the most important question we all need to address in our relationships is whether or not the relationship we are in with the person we are with is acceptable to us. I think this is a very powerful question because it puts the focus on us and our choices. It really doesn’t matter what your ex or current flame thinks or whether or not they are sorry, truly sorry or just blowing smoke. I think this question negates all of the background noise.
Yes
yes!
Yes, that’s it exactly. People often confuse acceptance with forgiveness. You accept that this awful thing happened and you don’t angrily, obsessively ruminate on it anymore. That’s not the same as forgiving the person or people who did it.
I can’t wait to stop the obsessive ruminating hahaha. it’s gotten better. Sigh.
It gets better. iam an overinker by nature and will think about every angle of a sitiation even when it’s not that big of a deal. So the affair/end of my marriage neing so big and complicated? Oh my god,the level of ruminating was awful. I tried not to but overthinking is part of who I am at my core, so my success level was varied.
Now? I do so much less of it. sadly, I do think time is the only real solution.
These days, I may ponder some old transgression, but usually only if something new has come up. And I don’t get as emotionally upset. It’s more like a scientific study. I am very low contact, but we have kids so completelyt NO contact isn’t quite possible.
Recently he was upset that I don’t seem to care that his life is ruined. He really is so central that he thinks that I should CARE about him. And I like to think of myself as a good and kind person, so sometimes when he implies I am some cold, callous monster, I have to remind myself of how truly callous he was. See, he didn’t just have an affair. Initialy, he wouldn’t leave. And I was Honestly, whemafraid of him so getting him out was not easy. But for thetime he remained, and beyond, he rubbed that affair in my face in the cruelest of ways. So no, if he is now sad? I don’t care.
He did 1000 terrible things to wear off any “care” I could have. And the saddest part is if he stopped at say 950, I probably would still have SOME care left.
I think the more specific our red flags become for identifying duds, the less tendency we have to generalize and see bad everywhere.
Then again it can sometimes depend on geography. Sometimes bad is everywhere. I realized that where the kids and I were living before was wall to wall blind fools and entitled jerks for whatever reason (maybe they cluster?). So we moved to a place where it was easier to find our own tribe. Like really. Walking out the door is a big hippie love-in some days. We can’t pitch a rock in any direction without hitting a new friend or at least new warm acquaintance. There isn’t a feeling of scarcity so it’s much easier to let go of people who turn out to be iffy. Why would we settle?
Wow, your post has me thinking that maybe I don’t forgive my ex. Idk. I think forgiveness is a thing, but it is only granted to those who are truly sorry. Those people who say “I am so sorry that I hurt you, how can I atone?” as opposed to those who say “I am so sorry that I got caught, how can I manipulate you into forgiveness?”. My XFW said “I am sorry that I hurt you, but I did what I wanted for me.” (Points for self awareness there.) Maybe forgiveness is not what I feel, but acceptance like you say. Either way, I am so happy that he finally crossed a line that was a dealbreaker as that was the only thing to wake me up out of a 37 year stupor of acceptance of a lousy relationship.
PS – about the red and yellow flags, of course you will see them as you have been burned before. As you know, the red flags mean full stop, and the yellow mean go slow. Nobody you ever meet will be perfect – the idea is to sort out your deal breakers from “I can live with that.”
I totally agree with you about the acceptance vs. forgiveness, since I also don’t believe in the latter. But what if a person never finds acceptance? I am struggling with that still, 4 years after D-day. I cannot believe this person I trusted with every ounce of my being for almost 27 years would do this to me and our family/kids, just throw it all away without one ounce of care or concern. Some days I guess I feel more in line with acceptance, but any time I let myself think of the lies that he told me, the things he did…I am right back where I started with “how, why, I can’t believe it”. Without a doubt, betraying someone is the worst thing you can do to them. Messes you up forever, to some degree at least, imo.
I had a therapist say -she was amazing in so many ways but this one was hard- you may never get over it completely. And that too is a kind of acceptance. Anyway. A thought. Because I am with you.
Acceptance is not forgiveness – acceptance is recognizing that something very real and factual happened, there is not a damn thing you or anyone else can do to change it so you simply accept it as a fact. Once you accept the fact then you can choose to accept or reject the person that did whatever it is that they did. If you choose to accept the person then you need to keep reading this website to learn what acceptance of a lying cheating scumbag means for your future and ask yourself how many times will you accept being cheated on and lied to. Some people can look the other way I guess but that is some serious compartmentalizing if you ask me.
It may just be that it takes you longer than four years. That’s okay. It sounds like you are getting there, but having some setbacks, which is normal. It’s not a linear process, unfortunately. There are always going to be setbacks along the way. Sometimes, even after you are meh about it, you can still get a twinge of pain or a short burst of anger. It does stay with you for life IMO, but once you are healed it stays mostly in the background.
“It’s not a linear process, unfortunately. ”
This is SUCH a good tip to remind people of. It’s SO true. I think a lot of us, myself imcluded, very much expected this healingprocess to be linear. And then when monents arise that show us it isn’t…we are shocked and disappointed.
What I have found is that everything gets a bit better with time, but some things that maybe you thought you were completely over DO pop up out of nowhere and in that monent I have felt like I didn’t make any progress. But in actuality,I have but we can still have ups and downs.
The other day out of the blue I remembered just how much I did for him during our marriage. How I was ALWAYS thinking of him. Bringing him home his favorite candy or other things like that. And the other day I cried for the woman that was so earnest in her love that just got SO shit on. And it was surprising to me, because that kind of raw hurt is not something that experience much these days. Usually when Ithink of the betrayal, I get annoyed, angry or indifferent. The sheer heartbreak was dealt with long ago.
The good news is,sure, I had a sad monent. I cried. But after, it was just over. It didn’t linger the way it would have even kdst 8 months ago.
Thank you CL for sparing us. I would of triggered badly and vomited. I am going through something similar an absentee dad all of suddenly in his kids lives. It’s their relationship. They are adults. Have to be there for them when he screws up.
The one and only person who needs my forgiveness is my younger chumpier self who bought into the RIC and didn’t run away when narc-sociopath cheated the first time. My younger self who tolerated abusive behavior and stupidly had children with a serial cheater whose secret sexual basement came to light 26 years later. If we chumps need to, or even want to forgive anyone, it is OURSELVES. Spend that energy on ourselves not on the disordered.
YASS!!! Also, when I direct my anger at the RIC, that works better for me. The world of RIC. The world of the idea if “bitterness” instead of seeing it as freedom. The victim blaming. If I focus on that fight, it is a good sort of obsessing – for me at least.
This is great, Archer, thanks for the reminder. We chumps need that from time to time because it is easy to revert back and blame ourselves, somehow think it was our fault. Kind of a toggle switch for us, I think. We have to be reminded to keep that switch in the “off” position.
People often say to forgive, that it is for us, not them, but it always seems to include them or is directed at them still. So I really like that you say we need to forgive ourselves, even our younger selves, and NOT them.
i agree. i’m in the forgiving myself phase, too. it’s a lot of work. it involves a lot of FOO dissection, looking for patterns and takes time. recently, i figured out that i have a pattern of reapproaching people who have greatly harmed me–it’s almost reflexive–and figured out why. i’ve been doing it my whole life.
this being a human is a lot of work.
It can be exhausting.
When a bank forgives a loan, they stop pursuing repayment.
They also stop lending you money.
When I learned my former husband had a secret double life, I also learned that not everyone agrees on the meaning of concepts like love, commitment, and truth. Likewise, the concept of forgiveness seems to be open to interpretation.
I forgive like a bank.
Damnnnnnn…that is GOOD.
And that is right where I am most days.
I no longer look for a genuine apology, or “real” reasons why he did it, or for him to be accountable or most especiallyfor him to stop blaming me. Likewise, I do NOT give him any access to me. At all.
I will discuss matters that involve our kids, and that’s it.
He gets nothing more from me.
I don’t think in general society would neccessarily see that as forgiveness, but it’s probably what all chumps should strive for.
May I swipe that line? I’m give credit to the mysterious VH (kind of like M in the Bond series).
I think I really do forgive like a bank. After a certain number of years, the thought of certain skeevy people from the past doesn’t even raise my pulse anymore. I see them kind of abstractly like you would a sewage disaster. I understand these walking disasters were created by sad circumstances and tragic forces. But I still wouldn’t give any of them a dime nor– pardon the crassness– piss on them if they were on fire. Not in retaliation but because doing so would require proximity. Thirty foot barge pole kind of forgiveness.
love this bank analogy!! Def remembering that… I can forgive a loan and also stop making investments/payments etc. nice!
This made me ill just reading it. Did the RIC pay big bucks to get this tripe put on the air?
I am sooooo tired of being The Bigger Person. Klootzak is still in my house. DS10 got sick with a stomach bug on Klootzak’s time and he had to *gasp* clean up vomit. Then a day later he went out to dinner at Chipotle. Anyone want to guess what happened next? 🙄 So there is klootzak, lying on the couch looking gross and ill and he asks me for some laxatives. What? I think this is the opposite of what he should be doing but eager to see things take a terrible turn, I went and fetched him a bottle of colace and threw it at him. I was nice; it was an underhanded toss. And I immediately felt awful for giving him that tiny bit of help. So mad at myself for giving him a kibble. But then remembered the course of DS10’s illness and inwardly smiled at the idea that klootzak might be afflicted by explosive diarrhea next.
Clearly I am not at meh.
Klootzak had a request for documents and interrogatories lobbed at me just before my birthday with a due date today, which is DS10’s birthday. So excuse me if IDGAF if klootzak craps himself. Forgiveness? He hasn’t asked and I would never give it. He doubles down and it is one bad turn after another. Screw that guy. A whole show about the concept? That’s a hard pass from me.
Creepy lawyers and their creepy clients always try to schedule hearings and other hostile gestures on days that have importance to the opposition to be as disheartening as possible. Scheduling it on a child’s birthday is an extra level of evil because the poor child may absorb the stress. I hope you mop the floor with these walking abortions.
I suspect that whoever created the basic story of Shrinking never actually lost a spouse to tragic accident but merely invented that plot point to distract from the real agenda– which was to normalize forgiveness for cheaters, especially considering the story seems to involve way too many cheating scenarios to be accidental.
It seems every cheater (like every domestic abuser or child molester for that matter) becomes a PR agent for the worldwide FW league, using whatever pulpit they have to soften public opinion of cheating (or domestic abuse or child sexual abuse). For instance, a suspiciously high percentage of the early films and plays written by David Mamet weave in some “righteous” excuse for a man to punch a woman. Because of this, I always thought Mamet’s wives probably deserved combat pay. And Keven Spacey– who was later accused of molesting a 14 year old– reportedly pushed hard to get the lead in the film American Beauty– a film which coyly glorified pedophilia and depicted a pedophile as a poor sad sausage victim.
From all the glorified “side chick” themes in Shonda Rhimes’ TV writing, I have to assume Rhimes has a history of obsessing over married men.
Of course you can’t be at meh with him still in your house. Is it because he refuses to leave and you have to wait until the property is divided legally to get rid of him?
Have you tried making his life there so unbearable that he has no option but to leave?
Try putting liquid laxative in his coffee every day (disguised as you being “wifely” and bringing the lord and master coffee 😆) and when he moans about his intestinal troubles, suggest it’s from the stress of living in a hostile environment. Try cooking just for you and the kids, not making enough for him and not allowing him to sit at the table with you. Try playing music or TV loud when he is trying to rest. Most importantly, use unrelenting criticism and insults, deeply cutting comments that will burn his ego to cinders. Try telling the neighbours the whole story and making sure he knows you’ve done it. I could go on, but you get the idea. The key is that you have to really commit to it and not let up until he’s been driven away.
My FW ran off to a roach ridden motel just to get away from my techniques. He had to walk for two hours to get there because I had hidden his car keys. 😁
I love this
I never watched the series, don’t have any premium channels. But, I do believe some walk away from their sins, or horrible actions. I just think it is rare because it is hard to change yourself once grown.
I think those who change in large part are folks who had conscience/integrity all their life and continuously worked on themselves to be better people. Which I believe normal folks do. Folks with integrity continuously monitor themselves, if you didn’t get that whi8le your personality was being grown; you likely won’t get it later, or even understand it.
As a Christian I will forgive, but forgiveness to me is simply letting go and letting God. It isn’t hard, and it shouldn’t be hard. It doesn’t require me to be involved with the perp or what happens to him at all. It also doesn’t prohibit me from taking legal action if need to protect myself or others.
I think I only got halfway through the first episode and I was so mad bc I love the cast and that’s what drew me in the first place along with some hopefuly snarking about healing that I could laugh at. Nope. It was a fail all the way around for me unfortunately.
Dr. Ramani recently did a great interview on forgiveness and it really helped me a lot. I already understood that forgiveness doesn’t mean reconcile. I can forgive from over here thank you. In that state, I was not relieved of some lingering shame/guilt because I felt anger/resentment still. Like here we go again in that “I’m not doing it right” if I still have the negative feelings. Dr. Ramani clearly states both states can co-exist and in fact, it makes sense we’d feel anger/resentment… especially if the perps are still acting that way. Forgiveness doesn’t magically change *their* behavior.. it changes ours. I gave up the right for vindication.. that’s not going to happen.. and let it go. I can both forgive what was done to me and also hate the behavior that continues to hurt others.
I had been haunted by the murder of Stephanie Roper, a 22 year old kidnapped, raped, burned and dismembered in 1982. I was pretty astounded when Stephanie’s mother declared on national television that she forgave the murderers. I kind of recall that she forgave them because of Jesus’s mandate to forgive.
I believe her mother eventually revoked her forgiveness. She became an amazing advocate for Victim’s rights.
https://thebaynet.com/stephanie-ropers-murderer-requests-release-prosecutors-object/
2 years ago, I moved to be closer to my daughter and her family. Unbeknownst to me, I moved quite close to the Roper family. I frequently take the highway that is now named “Stephanie Roper Highway.”
I think forgiveness as being “essential” to healing is such a strong narrative, that if you’re in indescribably pain, as this woman must’ve been, you’d do anything to be relieved of that pain. Forgive a murder? Okay! We want social cohesion, so I get that there is a societal “good” in people not indulging in vengeance. And maybe if the murderer is on death row and there’s some justice, it doesn’t seem like a bad idea. I like how Mamie Till, the mother of Emmett Till dealt with it — she let her tortured son’s funeral be open casket so the world could see what racism did to him — and it changed the course of the Civil Right’s movement.
This totally makes sense and explains why. TY
That’s right. People are desperate to feel better and have been told forgiveness will heal their pain.
I know for a fact that my husband was deeply and sincerely sorry that he got caught.
I would definitely watch this series, except tonight was the night I was planning to re-arrange my sock drawer.
Yeah, well, for many people the concept of sociopathy, sociopathy, narcissistic personality disorder is really really hard to wrap their mind around – if they are aware of its existence at all. The idea that many people basically “play” at being human as they have no emotional empathy or capacity to see everyone else as anything other than an object that they can use and that these are exactly the people most likely to end up your boss and president… is a tough one to swallow.
A character in the show, one of Jimmy’s therapy patients — is married to an abuser and she pushes him off a cliff and goes to jail for it. (He lives). But she gets off, thanks to Jimmy arguing she was abused. He’s the one exception we get — the ogre who is irredeemable. They call him a narcissistic sociopath (is there any other kind?) I think he was written to cover that base, okay, some people just suck. But the majority just need therapy and apologies.
Not related to the show, but I was today years old when I heard of this case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Romand
OMG, this sounds like a dreadful TV show and I am appreciative that Tracy suffered through it for all of us! Thank you for the sacrifice, Tracy!
I told my FW right away after his cheating was discovered that because his lying, deceiving, gaslighting and sneaking around (and all the BS that goes along with cheating) proved he knew what he was doing was wrong, there was no way in hell that I would forgive him…ever. Our teen son also told him that what he did was unforgivable.
Some things can be forgiven, like small infractions, but some things cannot and should not be forgiven. Infidelity is one of them, since it is done with intent and they know it will cause pain and choose to do it anyway. Screw forgiveness! Just because the RIC says you should, doesn’t mean you have to!
This pressure on victims to forgive seems an American or perhaps Judeo Christian phenomenon. Nobody from my non-American culture of origin has pushed forgiveness. Staying for the kids or money maybe, but none of the forgiveness BS.
It’s NOT a dreadful TV show. Which is why these narratives are so seductive. Being me, I just started questioning the assumptions.
Sorry, sounds dreadful to me, the subject matter and the forgiveness part, and I’m with Elise, I’d get triggered by watching it. But I also have had some terrible experiences with therapists that like to victim blame and then turn around and say “we shouldn’t judge others and forgiveness is for us, not them.”
But I do love Harrison Ford, such a great actor! I don’t recognize any of the other actors, unfortunately.
But always good to questions assumptions! I’m with ya on that one.
One of things I really had trouble wrapping my head around during my annus horribilis was:
I didn’t think my wife would have an affair, but I didn’t think it was impossible. Improbable (and I had no inkling it was actually happening), but not beyond the realm of the possible. I could even imagine the affair festering, becoming an agonizing wound that our marriage could not, despite our efforts, overcome. I could imagine needing to divorce – painfully, reluctantly, and ashamedly.
What I could not imagine is my wife having an affair and not regretting it. Not caring what it did to me or the kids, not feeling bad about it, not attempting to save our marriage or our family, not apologizing for it. I could imagine her leaving me and fracturing our family, but I couldn’t imagine her doing so joyfully and enthusiastically.
There are shitty people who do shitty things and do not care – no regret, no apology, no contrition. The idea that everyone must, deep down, feel bad about the bad things they’ve done is a fairy tale. I understand that this TV show is just entertainment. It is a sort of morality play that represents how the world ought to be rather than how it actually is. That is all fine provided people understand that it is not a practical guide to how to live your life in the real world among real people, some of whom are shitty.
IG – if you care to share, can you tell if your wife’s pre D-Day behavior was indicative of what was to come? Or are you part of the Brain Tumor Club (dues paying member here) wherein her behavior was so uncharacteristic that it just knocked you down – I mean independent of the “omg my spouse is cheating” knockdown? Was she normally callous and dismissive? I’m wondering if there is a difference in pre-discovery behaviors of different FWs. A normally selfish, uncaring spouse can elicit comments of “I’m not surprised they’re cheating”, whereas the comments I got where along the lines of “FW did that?! He really had me fooled. I thought he was a family man.” Maybe it’s just a thing where some of the disordered have their masks Crazy Glued to their faces whereas others are letting their freak flag fly every day for all to see.
I would say that
(1) she was always selfish, but I was so accommodating that I didn’t really notice it. Honestly, other than her career, I am better at everything else (house, kids, cooking, money, etc) so I just kind of gradually took on more and more. The few times I asked her to do something she would fail spectacularly (forget to pick the kids up from school, or let the water boil over and put out the fire, filling the house with gas) so I didn’t push it. I wasn’t aware of the concept of weaponized incompetence at the time. I felt like we were a team so of course I would do whatever I could to make our lives better, and I just assumed that someday she would return the favor. That day just never arrived.
(2) as her career advanced her sense of entitlement grew. The list of things that were beneath her got longer and longer. Eventually she made the jump from “I deserve a better job” to “I deserve a better husband” but it was a gradual process.
(3) For most of the marriage, she was increasingly cold and ungenerous but not really mean. About a year before DDay she started picking bizarre, nonsensical fights. In retrospect I’m pretty sure this corresponds to the affair kicking into high gear. Not to get political, but I now understand that if you want to assert dominance over someone you don’t make a reasonable, well-articulated request – you demand something absolutely bonkers. If you ask for something reasonable and the other person agrees, maybe you just argued your case well. If you ask for something that makes no sense, that’s a straight-up test of loyalty / fear / subservience. Those bizarre fights were new, as we had never really disagreed on anything substantive previously.
(4) I fundamentally misjudged her commitment to us. I assumed that since I provided so much support to her, the kids and marriage that of course she appreciated it (even though she didn’t show it) and of course she wouldn’t jeopardize the sweet deal she had. I wasn’t happy with the balance of responsibilities in the marriage, but I somehow assumed that of course she must be, because she was coming out way ahead!
(5) I hadn’t appreciated the unresolved tension of her growing up with traditional gender roles (southern Europe) but living and working in progressive areas in the US (East Coast academia). For instance, when she referred to me as “my saint of a husband” to her work colleagues that wasn’t actually a compliment. She now cites her screaming matches with AP (in contrast with our drama-free marriage – up until its last month or two anyway) as proof that they “really love each other”. That part was genuinely hidden and really surprised me. I think her self-proclaimed feminist identity didn’t allow her to admit to anyone (herself, much less me) that she lost respect for me as a man because I did all the cooking, cleaning and childcare. To the extent that she wore a mask, I think it was more to hide herself from herself rather than from other people.
Anyway, long answer so I’m going to stop there. Of course there are lots more details (eg her mother drilling into her how much she regretted not divorcing her father before he became disabled and it was “too late” to do so) so sometimes it’s hard for me to see the forest for the trees.
Damn, you hit the nail on the head. I knew my husband was a selfish prick, but I never expected that he could destroy my life and believe he was entitled to do so. That was a mind-fuck. Took me a long time to even realise he wasn’t remorseful because I couldn’t imagine that a person could be so devoid of integrity and self-respect.
Great point! In fact to do the Horrible Things, you first really have to not care. A drunk driver isn’t hurting you intentionally. It’s nothing personal. Betrayal or abandoning a child is very different. And I think that was my other problem — all sins are equally weighted.
This is something that I try to focus on. Intention matters. My ex enjoyed humiliating me and hurting me. It made him feel powerful. He did it with forethought and with pre-meditation, something you talk about here and it’s chilling and it’s real. Substance abuse disorders in this country and how we handle them is a huge other subject matter for me.
Huh.
Well, glad I don’t have Apple TV.
Or really, for that matter, watch TV.
I am terrified that somebody is going to watch that and just sort of handwave off something horrible that somebody did to them or somebody else because TV said so. Not that much anything that happens in TV or movies is grounded in reality. Seriously, we are one “trust fund kid fresh out of a weekend fiction workshop” away from the end times.
Though perhaps this is another way I’ve been “bitter”-when I had to tell a family member that “yes, this person is a drug addict and how could I possibly say that if they aren’t homeless, filthy, and robbing people for their next fix because that is what TV says an addict is.”
I have recently been accused of holding on to resentments related to my fuckwit. And yes, that is in part true.
I am also finding it curious that everybody in the “why don’t you move on?” brigade ALSO has some awful shit they would like handwaved.
Weird how that works, huh?
Happy Tuesday!
FFS!
Who the hell comes up with these programme ideas?
They need a good smack with the reality stick and a therapy session that focuses on why it’s detrimental to be a doormat or live in an alternative reality that you can alter to suit yourself instead of letting people know their actions have consequences and there’s a price to be paid for betrayal.
Being accountable has gone the way of fob watches it would seem.
Yes, too much evil for me. Nope, nope, nope.
I get triggered by the word “forgiveness” anyway. Saying “forgiven” doesn’t wipe away all the ugliness and danger.
Living in reality and pushing some people away is far more healthy. Sometimes, there is no resolution to these things anyway. People don’t like to accept that, but so it is.
Depending on the circumstances, I might be able to forgive an accidental harm if the person expressed sincere regret.
Forgiving an affair is a different story. Cheaters knowingly deceive and abuse, sometimes (as in the case of my ex) for years. He expressed regret with one hand while holding a metaphorical shiv (uncooperative divorce demands, spreading false narratives etc) in the other.
Nope. I won’t/can’t forgive him, but I can move on. And it’s this last point that many would argue is not possible. They would say that you need to forgive to move on. I disagree.
Happy Tuesday, everyone!
Agree with you. D-Day was unimaginable, just like it was for all of us. But the icing on the cake was 2 days later, after swearing to me it was over, that they were done, and she would respect our marriage while we figured out what we were doing, she texted him and asked if they could get a room, for “one last time’.
I did watch Shrinking and interpreted it just like you did, CL. It was entertaining for the acting and some off color humor, but way out there if we are talking about reality.
Like most TV shows, honestly.
But to me, that is Hollywood and the entertainment industry. Painfully out of touch with reality, living in their created safety bubbles on an incomprehensible and almost humorous level.
The cultish one mind thought processes that they seem to enjoy flaunting without any regard for personal integrity or moral turpitude, just never fails to amaze. And once you see it, it’s impossible to unsee the craziness.
The reason cheating is viewed as sophisticated and avant garde today is in large part due to it being crammed down ppl’s throats as a God given right of the successful and glamorous. The chosen beautiful people club, the ones that have earned the right to betray their loved ones, move on and replace them with other members of the “cool” cheaters’ club. So sophisticated and special!! They will sell that for as long as they can get away with it, and that’s been a long time.
They try over and over to force acceptance of the theme on humanity. Not all, fortunately, have bought a bottle of their snake oil.
Consequences for actions is the kryptonite of the Hollywood elite and sadly, many other highly successful people.
Becomes much harder, it seems, to stay moral, with integrity and scruples, when the life banquet table is overflowing with any and all you could ever want and the urge to resist taking it grows ever weaker.
As in the gospel of Matthew:
“it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” How deeply profound and true a line that is.
And are we sick of forgiveness yet, asks CL?
Soooooo sick of forgiveness! Why don’t we all do exactly what we want to do, hurt anyone at all in the process, live a life of total disregard for our fellow man, and get forgiven for it in the 11th hour?! How exciting a life it would be to live without any limits!
Then five minutes before our death, profess how terribly sorry we were for ruining countless lives along our path and be forgiven in the quick shake of a dog’s tail.
Viola, all our sins gone in a second and we had all that amazing, chaotic,selfish existence, disregarding anyone else’s needs and desires with complete reckless abandon. Wow, what a remarkable genius plan!
And that thorny term forgiveness, that justifies it all as no big deal?! It totally blows!! Do I accept that some A-hole trampled my life and left me for dead, yes, absolutely. I do accept that it was done, I lived through it.
But do I forgive the F’er for doing it?!
Let him check in with God in those last five minutes he hopefully gets.
Because my forgiveness cup hath, sadly, run dry.
“Why don’t we all do exactly what we want to do, hurt anyone at all in the process, live a life of total disregard for our fellow man, and get forgiven for it in the 11th hour?! How exciting a life it would be to live without any limits!
Then five minutes before our death, profess how terribly sorry we were for ruining countless lives along our path and be forgiven in the quick shake of a dog’s tail.”
Reading this was startling! It is exactly what FW wrote to me in an email explaining his actions. He said he didn’t care if he was doing wrong and “everyone was against” him, he would live his life as he chose and then on his deathbed “ask forgiveness from God and everything would be okay.” Moron. How we die counts for shite. It’s how we live that truly matters.
My own personal form of this was that I explained bad acts by my ex as the result of growing up in a family in which his father cheated on his mother with one of his grad students, left her, and didn’t see his kids, and his mother was an alcoholic who sat him down on the couch to tell him how awful men were. That’s how I spackled for him.
I also extended this rationalization to others beyond my personal family life. I looked for ways to let people off the hook. Were they raised by abusive parents or in poverty? Did they experience discrimination? That’s how I explained their bad acts. That’s how I pardoned them.
Meanwhile, I held myself accountable for every bad act, every mistake, every spiteful thought, and was ever ready to blame myself, ever ready to consider myself “a bad person,” despite my own family history (which ain’t pretty). I routinely said “I’m sorry” to strangers, for something as minor as moving my grocery cart past them in a the grocery aisle.
I was in my fifties before I started to hold people accountable for the choices they made instead of excusing them. I’m sorry your family was dysfunctional, your parents neglected you or were violent, that society dealt you a crap hand, but you don’t get a free pass on your behavior because of that. There are plenty of people who came from worse circumstances, but they made other, better choices that didn’t hurt others. Co-incidentally (in the sense of “concomitantly”), I found my own self-respect.
I love this. Thanks for sharing.
“I’m sorry your family was dysfunctional, your parents neglected you or were violent, that society dealt you a crap hand, but you don’t get a free pass on your behavior because of that. There are plenty of people who came from worse circumstances, but they made other, better choices that didn’t hurt others.”
Exactly. You can be traumatized by your past and have lousy character and you can be traumatized by your past and have good character. It’s a choice you make in how you respond to the trauma; you can get “revenge” by hurting innocent people (which does nothing to heal you, it only keeps you stuck) or you can decide you will not put others through the pain you went through. You lead with love because love is what heals. But being loving does not mean forgiving monstrous deeds or having anything to do with those who commit them.
I will make sure to give that one a miss. Thanks for the heads up CL, and for sitting through that treacle to give us that review.
I continue to believe that most people who do terrible things are never really sorry for the ones they hurt. They are often sorry for themselves though, if there are consequences. I will go to my grave believing this, even though it’s uncomfortable and depressing, because it’s the truth. I won’t buy into happy horseshit. I think it has made me less well liked than I would have been if I was willing to go along with it, but that’s okay.
Thanks for the review. I will body swerve that pos show.
I am pro-forgiveness. I am really good at forgiving and moving on. And if that man who continues to abuse me and my son had shown any remorse and asked for forgiveness, then I would have worked hard on it. But he’s not sorry and rather than making amends continues to harass me.
Furthermore, even if I am “supposed” to forgive as others forgive me, well, he hasn’t forgiven me for a single misstep over the last 12 years. And he even seems to blame me for things I never did. So yeah, I guess I have already forgiven him more deeply than he forgives me ::eye roll::
This post is spot on and so well done! I had just finished watching Shrinking, Season 2, Episode 8, and literally Googled “Shrinking minimizes cheating and drunk driving” to see if anyone had written about this. Not much showed up, so I switched over to get my daily dose of Chump Lady and saw this!
On a separate note, after over 5 years of lurking on this site, this is my first post! I have to express my appreciation to Chump Lady and the veterans of Chump Nation for keeping me sane all of that time. For the newer visitors to this site, I would say that I have learned from experience that Chump Lady is always right! Thank you!!!
A year post divorce and 1.5 years post D-Day. Still not at meh, but thoughts aren’t all consuming like they were a year ago. Forgiveness isn’t on my mind atm, just wanting to get to acceptance. One issue I’ve had recently is that when my mind does wander, my emotional reaction has gone back to sadness. It was sadness before, then it switched to anger. I like anger better. It doesn’t “hurt” as much, and its easier for me to shake. Not sure why this has changed. Hopefully its just processing the grief and means I’m getting closer to Tuesday.
Forgiveness to me is just letting go of the past, accepting it, and moving on. Does that mean I do not forget, no. It allows me to let go of any expectation and for giving them underserved mental space. I would rather think about the upcoming date I have, and how good it feels to actually engage with other women, not how a disordered person wronged me.
If I gave her mental space, I would continue to dance to her manipulative and controlling tune.
Over the weekend, listened to Hidden Brain, which featured a Stanford researcher named Fred who believes you have to forgive to get over your trauma (I paraphrase). BIG forgiveness porn in that episode.
I find it scary that there are all these “authority” figures out there telling us how we have to forgive, forget, and pretty much embrace the people who’ve harmed us, and may continue to harm us. Esther Perel on TED Talks, this guy Fred on Hidden Brain, the quack answering OW in the Atlantic Monthly, etc.
I wish they would ALL GO AWAY. Sigh.
Let me/us just accept their shitty behavior, minimize them in our lives, and move on.
Rather than focus on forgiveness, I focused on detaching, getting to meh, letting it just become irrelevant. That worked for me. I first saw that that I was getting there when I found out he had to drive himself to the ER when his foley catheter had a malfunction(wandering dick syndrome can lead to problems with that organ) Had no one to drive him.Too bad, huh?Can also call Uber. For me, I was never interested in letting over 3.5 decades of cheating become something I forgave. Maybe it is the same thing, but I chose to let him become irrelevant, unimportant, not my problem. Whatever it may be called, it worked for me. I fill my mind and time with other things that are good for me. That left no room for him.
I would have watched it just for Harrison Ford. Thank goodness you saved me the trouble!
I have problems with “forgiveness” as something the chump OWES the cheater. I also have problems with organized religions that base your “good personhood” on whether you’ve actually forgiven people who have betrayed you, cheated on you, abused you or attempted to murder you.
Let me once more raise awareness on the topic of FORGIVENESS GROOMING..a word I heard somewhere in time and it FIT!! Both my dear cheaters watched me like a hawk to see what I would let slide next…I forgave phone sex Check✅️! I was told never to mention his flirting way again check✅️. Told to forgive staying out at the gym late✅️. Told it waa none of my business if he had emotional affairs and I don’t understand ✅️..told that Hallmark OW love notes meant nothing✅️. I know Tracy asks us to ask IS THIS ACCEPTABLE TO ME?? Unfortunately, due to forgiveness almost anything became FORGIVABLE…NO not acceptable, forgivable. So each step I was led to give the side eye to just about EVERYTHING except the walking out and leaving me, for #1 and the flat out affair for #2. The cheaters up the ante on what you will forgive, or not mention ever again or stop complaining already it was NOTHING. Forgiveness in my.mind and heart is ENABLING the under ground life to continue and weakened my self esteem and self worth. It’s baby steps to full blown abuse. I don’t have any answer except to leave. Let it go yes..Forgive?,but bring on the consequences. That is ALL that works…from my life with 2 cheaters, I was walked on as I forgave..now I walked and let them Go. Consequences.
“Forgiveness is letting go of revenge. It is not letting go of consequences.”
Of everything in my humongo text file of Chump Nation wisdom, I remember that the best. Two more favorites that are pithy but puzzling (good meditation fodder):
“Forgiveness is letting go of the hope of a better past.”
“Closure is knowing that you deserved better.”
What a huge pile of BS. The onus is on the harmed, not the perpetrators. No atonement at all, just a mea cupa
I tried watching it. It wasnt that interesting to me so I only saw a few episodes. Based on CL synopsis I wont try again. Its TV Novella. I watch stuff with my 18 yo son and he complains about the story and characters. I remind him its just entertainment. If you are not entertained turn it off.
The issue with stuff like this is that it indoctrinates clueless people to the whole forgiveness, remorse thing. When you go through s@@@, you dont appreciate shows like this. For Clueless and or inexperienced young people, it reinforces their notions of forgiveness and that disordered people feel remorse. See? I watched this show and people felt remorse so everyone feels remorse! Its lime the whole world is in on the RIC.
Now I am very intrigued by this series- I didn’t understand the premise before. I do enjoy a good show that causes me to scream and throw things at the tv.
Now I gotta say something controversial to CN. Though I joined CN after my husband of 10 years got some slut at work pregnant while I was pregnant (and 20 years ago I had another long term relationship that ended in my fuckwit also impregnating a ho bag) – I don’t know why God hates me- I do believe in there being instances of forgiveness.
When I was 18, I cheated on my high school sweetheart while we were long distance. He found out, forgave me, and I never ever did anything remotely shady to anyone again because I had learned how to not suck. I didn’t deserve it, but I am grateful he forgave me, and I went on to becoming a better person. I was young, stupid, and desperate and pathetic for attention.
I am completely different obviously so many years later… but I do want to point out that if someone truly is repentant (which none of my exes showed believable remorse that wasn’t self pity) , then forgiveness can be divine. I didn’t believe my ex should have forgiven me for the hurt I caused, and yet he did, and for that I’ve become a better person. The universe has punished me with lifelong relationship heartache, but I got 2 great kids and deep friendships.