UBT: I Wish I Had Forgiven My Cheater

Universal Bullshit Translator

“I wish I had forgiven” my cheater says Nadine Dorries in the Daily Mail, comparing her situation to the wife of footballer Kyle Walker.

***

The Daily Mail, giving the Universal Bullshit Translator indigestion 24/7, has a new nugget of misogyny and mindfuckery this week: NADINE DORRIES: I wish I’d been as strong and forgiving as Kyle Walker’s betrayed wife when I caught my husband kissing another woman.

Listen up, you bitter bunnies, there are serious regrets if you dump a cheater. You’ll weep and rend your garments. Oh! I wish I had forgiven his wandering dick! However shall I go on with independence and self-respect?

Allow the UBT to parse this load.

Oh, I wish I was Annie!

The nation is gripped by the Euros, but some are more intrigued by the complex personal affairs of England’s vice captain Kyle Walker. For those who haven’t been following, Kyle apologised some time ago for the ‘idiot choices’ he made in fathering two children with ‘influencer’ Lauryn Goodman while he was married to his childhood sweetheart Annie Kilner, the mother of his four other children.

Last week, Lauryn insisted on taking Kyle’s son Kairo to England’s match against Denmark, despite the fact that Annie was there with Kyle’s other sons. It’s hardly the distraction the Manchester City star needs as he prepares for tonight’s game against Slovenia.

But even though I respect Lauryn’s wish to do right by her son and take him to Germany to watch Daddy play, I can only imagine the pain Annie must be going through as all this is aired in public. How could she forgive Kyle for his betrayal?

Being married to a gazillionaire celebrity probably has something to do Annie’s steady diet of shit sandwiches. Or trauma bonding.

Nadine feels your pain.

You see, I know how she feels — because I too was once the humiliated wife. I too suffered a breach of trust that resulted, in my case, in years of resentment — and which ultimately contributed to my husband Paul and I separating for nine years. Like Annie and Kyle, we had been together since we were young: I was just 17 when we had our first date.

Cheating is a just a nebulous breach of trust. Nothing worth specifying. Could be you forget to buy milk. Could be you owe thousands in back support for the children your wife knows nothing about. What matters here is the chump’s resentment. It’s ugly. Resentment leads to separation and divorce. Not wandering genitals.

When I look back over those nine years of estrangement, I know I was lost, adrift and in pain — as was Paul. We reunited not long before he received a terminal diagnosis — and he died in my arms in 2019.

Thereby denying me years of further abuse.

But I’m so honored I won the pick-me dance and end-of-life caregiving!

I wish I had forgiven.

The truth is: I should never have let him go in the first place.

I should’ve resuscitated that wandering dick.

Back in the early 2000s, Paul and I had started a new business. We were raising three young children and were working flat-out. And though we had a beautiful relationship, there were signs that something was wrong.

Alas, I had three children and failed to enchant.

I remember waking early one Sunday morning, reaching my arm out for him and asking for tea — which he brought to me in bed every morning of our married life — to find he wasn’t lying there next to me.

I looked out of the bedroom window: the car was gone. I texted him to ask where he was and the blunt reply came: ‘At the office.’

I don’t know, but the answer is you couldn’t forgive him.

The next clue came a few weeks later, when a member of our staff brought up extra-marital affairs while we were talking. ‘Do you think Paul would ever cheat on you?’ she asked me. ‘Never,’ came my immediate response. To this day, I have not forgotten the moment that lovely lady tried to warn me.

Yes, the best way to tell someone their husband is cheating is with a bizarre hypothetical sprung on them at a company event.

Never indeed: Paul and I had always been deeply in love. We insisted on sitting next to each other at functions, hated being split up, and friends teased us for constantly holding hands.

My marriage policing was on point.

All we had!

We had worked our way up from nothing together, and we were doting parents.

Before falling asleep, we’d hold each other and talk about the joyous life we’d created, laughing so much that we had to press our faces into our pillows to muffle the sound, so as not to wake the children. We were loving and passionate and had the healthiest of relationships.

Nadine: Oh Paul! Contain your overbrimming joy lest you wake the children!

Pauls smothers Nadine with a pillow.

But one day I found that ‘never’ could happen after all.

It was a work ‘weekend away’. I’d woken in the middle of the night to find the bedroom door open and a summer breeze drifting into the room.

The previous evening, on a rare occasion, I’d gone to bed first, after we and our team had all had dinner together at a local pub. I had meetings planned for the following day — the start of a new week — and I’d left everyone else downstairs, drinking and chatting. Paul had kissed me on the forehead and said: ‘I’ll be up in a minute: I’ll just sort everyone out with drinks.’

I’d fallen asleep as soon as my head hit the pillow, yet when I woke in the early hours — thanks to his absence, as much as anything — I heard muffled voices coming from the hot tub outside.

I slipped on a dressing gown and crept downstairs towards the moonlit garden. And there she was: one of our employees, kissing my husband. Her eyes met mine and she pulled away from him.

‘Your wife is here,’ she said to Paul, and smiled at me as she spoke. The pain I felt was indescribable.

SHE was kissing my husband. He never kissed back! I wish I had forgiven that indescribable pain. Which I attribute to an errant employee snogging my husband in a hot tub against his will.

Yes, she worked for me — but I’d thought of her as a friend. I’d believed she was as committed to making the business work as we were: but actually, she was only interested in Paul and taking him away from me.

I learnt later that everyone else had suspected something was going on between them: I had truly been the last to know. I’m quite ashamed of what I did next. The following morning, after hours of ferocious arguments between Paul and me — and many tears shed by both of us — I picked up the phone and called her husband.

I’m so ashamed I let a chump know he was being cheated on. The proper way to handle this is with a strange question in a public setting. Maintain plausible deniability.

His secretary told me he was in a meeting. ‘Well, you’d better get him out,’ I said. ‘I need to talk to him about his wife.’ My voice left no room for doubt as to how angry I was —and, within seconds, he was on the phone.

I told him exactly what had happened and his response floored me: ‘Oh God, no, not again.’

I wasn’t the first upset wife to call him. It transpired that she was a serial, gold-digging adulteress in search of a better life than the one he could afford. The poor man broke down. It has been hard to admit this to myself, but I now believe that Paul’s affair was not his fault. He was too trusting: an innocent who stood no chance. A kindly, jolly, Robert Redford lookalike,

Not Robert Redford
Robert Redford

Paul was easy-pickings for any woman who wanted to ensnare him. It happened to him — and it will happen to many more happily married men to come.

Paul’s only sin was looking too much like Robert Redford. An innocent! Who had no idea of his Hollywood movie star magnetism! I wish I had forgiven his naivety.

But, back then, I just couldn’t move on. The betrayal was like an open wound which eroded the foundation of trust our marriage was built on and made the storms ahead impossible to survive.

We both regretted our break-up more than anything else in the world.

If I had my time again, I would force my younger self to think of all the precious things Paul and I had built together. Hard as it would be, I would forgive him.

If only I could’ve forgiven that single kiss in the hot tub planted by a conniving hoochie mama.

Not a day goes by now when I don’t turn out the light and wish I’d seen it all for what it truly was — and moved on.

Surely, if love means anything, it means being able to forgive. If I had put it all behind me, we would have been unthwarted, our lives unshaken. We — not her — would have been the ones smiling for many years to come.

I could’ve been like Annie. Stalwart in forgiveness, as the Other Woman brought Paul’s other family to company picnics.

Annie Kilner, of course, has a still greater cross to bear. Kyle can’t cut Lauryn entirely out of his life: two other children are involved. But young as she is at 32, she has already proven herself to be a better woman than me in the forgiveness stakes.

I hope she can power through, because if she holds her family happy and intact, she will have more to be proud of than any of Kyle’s achievements on the football pitch.

Kyle has so many achievements beyond siring two children with his mistress. There’s the sex workers he invited to his home during Covid. Or that winsome way he exposed his junk to a woman in a Manchester Bar. Annie is only 32. Think of all the achievements ahead to forgive!

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Reading Lass
Reading Lass
1 year ago

Warning! Do not go down the Google rabbit hole reminding yourself why Nadine was utterly unfit to be a Member of Parliament!

Whatarollercoaster
Whatarollercoaster
1 year ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Well, she was our MP for all the years she was in Parliament. She started off ok, lived locally, held surgeries etc but that didn’t last. The constituency has always been a safe Tory seat, the sort of place you could stick a blue rosette on a flat and it would get in, so she didn’t need to worry about getting reelected, she would be because of being the conservative candidate.
Yes she had qualified as a nurse and came from a poor background in a Liverpool but I don’t know how long she worked in the NHS as she became involved with the private health company, Bupa, as they bought up her childcare company, so an ex director of Bupa as a health secretary at one point, while bigging up her poor nurse background. , but the jury is out as to whether she did more than become a medical rep,they lived in Southern Africa for a while as husband was a mining engineer, so she didn’t have a traditional political background.
She moved at some.point out of the constituency to the Cotswolds, she had an affair with a friend’s husband , he moved in with her over one Christmas and it ended, and she has another affair with a vet who I think was married but can’t swear to they
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2231348/Im-celeb-star-Nadine-Dorries-relationship-vet.html
Chumped friend was able to get some little revenge by keeping voting for the woman to stay in the jungle eating all sorts of unspeakable things
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2233323/Im-A-Celebrity-Jilted-wife-husband-affair-Nadine-Dorries-gets-Bushtucker-trial-revenge.html
She didn’t get on with many of her Tory colleagues but still somehow kept in office
There was a scandal over her expenses, and she employed various family members as staff at very high salaries. I’ve nothing against MPs employing family members if they can do the job well and they are not paid an inflated salary, but this was not so with her family members

She was in general an invisible MP in her constituency .but she visited just as COVID was starting to lock down with COVID, so everywhere she went had to be sanitised, showed up once since for a photo opportunity or 2, and then more or less disappeared. Meanwhile claiming that she had worked hard to gain funding for step free access at a local station, she gave a speech, but years of campaigning had been done by a local disabled chap who actually managed to get a promise that it will happen very soon, she never me ruined all his work. She had a big crush on. Iris Johnson and rumour had it that she had her eye on him, with his record it could have happened, but don’t quite me on that!
Various town councils wrote to her asking, but she believed she would get an honour so she could move up into the Lords, so hung on. She didn’t get one and then eventually resigned
The new MP was a labour candidate, who had a large majority, to get Mid Beds to vote labour must rank as one of her finest achievements
She writes books about poor girls in Liverpool. She continued to draw her salary as an MP when she was in the jungle
She must be feeling neglected if she’s resorting to writing to the daily mail, I wonder if her old friend has seen the article

Shadow
Shadow
1 year ago

I get who she is now! Plays up being the working class Scouser whilst being a total class traitor. She’s like the inversion of a Champagne Socialist! Not that Labour have the backs of the working class anymore- they’ve sold out! But that Dorries one is a pure snake altogether! A veritable smorgasbord of Cluster B traits no doubt! No wonder she uses all the sickly-sweet, flowery language in that article! Ugh!

ChumpNoMore
ChumpNoMore
1 year ago

Thanks for all this background info. What a piece of work that woman is. Her sucking up to Boris “Brexit” Johnson was embarrassing to say the least. Woman’s a laughing stock for most of the country. Zero sympathy.

Whatarollercoaster
Whatarollercoaster
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpNoMore

I read that she wrote when accusations of trying to become Boris’s wife number not sure that she said that it couldn’t possibly be true as she was a great friend of the couple, Carrie is a good friend so absolutely no way….
Didn’t stop her running off with other friend’s husband though did it. She relies on people having short memories.
I feel sorry for her in that she seems to have had a lot of trauma in her early life , but when the chance came to marry her way out of poverty and she eventually did become a politician, she didn’t remember her roots and stick up for the nurses and suchlike, hér backstory is useful for her to write her books and bring up that she was a nurse but she seems to have drawn a line over that part of her life when it comes to sticking up for others in that situation
I don’t know anything about non dead ex and his affairs, I’m sorry it happened to her. But most would have used that experience to not become a home wrecker herself. This is where I take issue with those who put the blame solely on the married affair partner, sure, they did the vows, not her, but it was a friend and had she made it clear to the husband that no affair was going to happen, there was no room in bed for him, no house for him to just move into, he wouldn’t have upped and left his family for her.

Shadow
Shadow
1 year ago

As a former NHS nurse, I find the way she turned her back on her former nursing colleagues when she could have used her position as an MP to advocate for them absolutely contemptable! She certainly pulled the ladder up after herself, didn’t she? As I say above, she’s a pure snake!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago

Ah, the mega-extreme, OTT level of apologism/denial/minimization/whitewashing over her dead ex’s cheating sounds like something a fellow cheater might do, at least while in the idealization stage.

It sounds contradictory to FW’s typical hypocritical psycho paranoia that their victims might turn the tables but it really depends on what stage of attachment disorder the cheater is in. Before D-day and in the middle of his affair, FW in my case internally combusted when I innocently put a daybed in my work studio just in case out of town guests needed a place to stay. He would never “lower” himself to admitting jealousy directly because jealousy is for losers but I heard him gasp and saw him become agitated and, within an hour, he was attacking me out of the blue over something indirectly related (how many people I’d dated before I met him?), so duh. Yet at the same time he was in complete denial that the AP– who turned out to be still having unprotected anal sex with random Tinder hookups during the affair– might be rawdogging other married dudes in parking lots because… juvenile idealization stage. There’s also narc reverso instincts where they put full trust in blatantly scummy people and then treat the innocent like irredeemable criminals.

Maybe the idealization stage also applies FW’s pining/nostalgia stage? At this point Dorries is pretty safe to idealize her dead ex because there’s small chance his corpse is still whoring around.

Reading Lass
Reading Lass
1 year ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Couldn’t be bothered to attend when there was money to be made on “I am a celebrity”. Failed to declare fee for “I am a celebrity” until forced by the standards committee. Rude/disloyal/told the truth, depending on your politics, to several Prime Ministers.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  Reading Lass

So….a sleazebag married to a sleazebag? OH…MY SURPRISED FACE!

chumpnomore6
chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Yep. Dorries is so ghastly I really can’t summon up any sympathy for her, although perhaps I should. But she’s so busy eating a huge denial sandwich I don’t think I’ll bother.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

This is just more tabloid fare so not sure if this really covers the full list of her political missteps: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-boris-johnson-interview-gaffes-b2275127.html

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
1 year ago

Nadine is – sadly – going way out of her way to absolve her late husband of responsibility for what happened. To suggest that he was “easy pickings for any woman who wanted to ensnare him” implies that he was either less than fully committed to the whole idea of monogamy, did not care about the impact of his choices upon his wife and the mother of his children or ……. was thicker than a lorry load of short planks. He made his choices and he should have born the consequences.

I hope that Nadine finds her peace and that, one day, she realises that she deserved better.

LFTT

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago

“To suggest that he was “easy pickings for any woman who wanted to ensnare him” implies that ……”

Exactly. When I was married I was the polar opposite of “easy pickings”. No one had even a remote chance of “ensnaring” me away from my husband. And I don’t think that is in anyway special, I just think that if you are married and not a cheat it is VERY easy to not find yourself in a hot tub kissing a coworker.

We have all seen it brought up here before, cheating isn’t generally something that happens in an instant, unexpectedly. The cheater is open to it long before it happens, it’s tended to like a garden.

BigCityChump
BigCityChump
1 year ago

LOL—“thicker than a lorry load of short planks!” I need this embroidered on a pillow!

ChumpDchump
ChumpDchump
1 year ago

“Oh my God, how did I end up in this hot tub?!” [snort] Sundance was probably cornered by the Bolivian army.

I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again: there’s no need to forgive cheaters because they have already forgiven themselves.

Shadow
Shadow
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpDchump

Yes, and put the chump on trial and found THEM guilty for the cheating as well!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpDchump

I don’t know how forgiving Dorries will be if she eventually contracts HPV cancer since evidence of HPV infection is found in over 50% of colorectal cancer (which Dorries’ ex reportedly died of) and 90% of anal cancer. It’s a myth that anal sex is required to develop HPV bowel cancer. According to the CDC, it can be caused though “alternative routes.” Maybe it’s that particular risk factor that’s triggering Dorries gonzo level of denial.

Orlando
Orlando
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpDchump

They don’t believe they did anything wrong in the first place so cheaters (inwardly or outwardly) laugh when you say you forgive them. Yes, my ex actually did that. Laugh-snorted. After all, it was their chumpy spouse that drove them to it & it’s chumpy spouse who should be asking for forgiveness! (sarcasm inserted).

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  Orlando

That’s so literally in your face and insulting. This is why I believe in the Sacred Frying Pan or Holy Baseball Bat.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago

For anyone still bewildered and befuddled over how an ex could have cheated on you with “that“… the “jolly Robert Redford lookalike” thing solves the mystery. Any reality, including the appearance of physical objects, can be magically transformed in the mind if this resolves the cognitive dissonance of an improbable false narrative so that, say, “I destroyed my family and traumatized my children for drunken humps with a dumpy barfly” becomes “I followed my passion for the sake of cinematic twu wuv”; or “My saggy mutt of a FW exploited his status and risked impoverishing the family with harassment lawsuits to bang underlings” becomes “Diabolical sirens are irresistibly drawn to my dazzlingly handsome FW.”

Sort of like beer goggles, there are also Cluster B goggles. Come to think of it, “cheat” is built right in to the expression “trompe-l’œil” (“cheat the eye”).

Bluewren
Bluewren
1 year ago

Cheaters tend to take whoever’s offering it – such is their fatal mystique and irresistible charm…. also known in many cases as too cheap to pay for it.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago

I find that the prospect of money and a nice house has an amazing effect on the appearance of others. Even 74 year old ex Patriots Coach Bill Bellicheck, beer belly, moobs, grim unsmiling visage and all, becomes magically gorgeous to a 23 year old gold digger.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
1 year ago

Brilliant.

AP wasn’t what you’d call ugly, but the whole sitch was gross. She looked like FW’s mom but with horse teeth.

Robert Redford indeed 🧐

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago

Lol, that brings in the Freudian theme. The AP in my saga was also a dead ringer for FW’s psychopathic mommy. The physical resemblance was the most immediately noticeable– they both have disproportionately large jaws, short necks and limbs and unusual facial flaws (FW’s mother had a very large inoperable mole between her nostrils and the AP had especially pitted acne scars). But the overlaps in personality were really remarkable.

Whatarollercoaster
Whatarollercoaster
1 year ago

So is AP, I knew his mother at that age,( 50s)

ChumpNoMore
ChumpNoMore
1 year ago

OMG I want to be sick.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpNoMore

Incest is best as they say– retch. FW had always complained that his mother treated everyone he ever dated as rivals. I used to think she was driving the emotionally incestuous dynamic all by herself. But then it turned out the affair had immediately followed a serious rift FW had with mommy dearest. For all his complaints of his mother’s meddling, you’d think he’d be relieved to go NC. But instead he immediately ran out to find his mother’s exact doppelganger to form yet another triangle.

In other words, he was driving the creepery as much as or maybe even more than his mother. The whole thing made me think of the movie Psycho in which Hitchcock slightly upends the typical Freudian misogynistic view of the day that domineering mommies are the sole cause of psycho killer sons. But it turns out at the end of the film that, rather than Norman Bates’ late doting widowed mother driving the incestuous dynamic as we’re led to assume early on, it turns out Bates actually killed his mother in a jealous rage when she tried to date again, preserved her corpse (it’s suggested he might have committed necrophilia) and then kind of “frames” her as the cause of his aggression by dressing up like her to commit murder.

Even if FW never tried to knife me in the shower, it was barfy enough that he bonked his mother’s dead ringer. Consequently, I put the Psycho “violin screech” as FW’s notification tone.

Chumpty Dumpty
Chumpty Dumpty
1 year ago

Same here, HOAC. My ex reversed the poles and started treating me the way he used to treat his mother — with a combination of contempt, hate, and fear. She has finally “won” her son back from me, her rival! And I mean, her rival for her son’s romantic and sexual attention. She would always size me up when she visited and ask me, “did you lose weight”? She has “won” her son back — she’s in her 80s!! It always skeeved me but I shrugged it off as too gothic and gross and ridiculous.

So tell me, how did your ex’s love affair with his mother turn out for him??

Orlando
Orlando
1 year ago

I had an ex-boyfriend pursue me after my divorce spinning delusional tales of “our great love affair”. I just looked at him like he grew three heads! Yes, we had some good times, but him screwing my friend in the guest bedroom after I went to bed wasn’t one of them!! I think Nadine is waxing similar delusion…and skipping over some really crappy abusive behaviour from her spouse.

Chumpcat
Chumpcat
1 year ago
Reply to  Orlando

Your ex was kind of right Orlando, you brought the love, he brought the affair. Your response was great. For Nadine I agree- I think she has nostalgia goggles on.

OutButNotDown
OutButNotDown
1 year ago

I am with Chump Lady, and Carly Pearce in her fun new song “Truck on Fire”, on how to think about a cheater’s cruel, duplicitous acts. Liar, liar you are gonna learn something about consequences. Mine did and I do not regret it.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=RDB7DwJ2cASFo&playnext=1&feature=shared

JeffWashington
JeffWashington
1 year ago

When we get to the actual Elizabeth Kubler-Ross stages of Chump Recovery/Path to Mightiness, we will have an identified step labeled “realized it wasn’t actually Schmoopie’s fault.”

The very first revelation I had that helped me realize this nightmare was not my making was accepting how free will and choice work(really just an unhappy reminder)-we make choices and then we live with the consequences. My therapist said “(name of fuckwit) didn’t just slip and fall on some dick.” And asked me what I did when I was presented with a similar issue-“I didn’t follow through and immediately informed (fuckwit)”.

I get it-I did the Pick Me Dance and smoked the Hopium too. There was a time, however brief, where I wanted her to come back even after all of that. That being said…there really aren’t any viable mental gymnastics for “my spouse was in a hot tub ON FAMILY PROPERTY with another, non-related woman where it was entirely plausible that somebody that would take a lot of offense to that notion would walk-in on it.”

We need to start by forgiving ourselves. Otherwise we are totally within our rights not to forgive fuckwittery. If there is some compulsion to do-by all means-you are still able to forgive betrayal or the attached person and still never give them the time of day again.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  JeffWashington

Great points. It really IS a choice to cheat. We don’t consider that we Chumps ALSO have opportunities to cheat. It’s not like we’re all bell ringers at Notre Dame….some of us are downright attractive, or funny, or at the very least….have good jobs. But I’ve had men I knew were interested in me, and you’ve had women who were interested in you, and the Chumps say NO THANKS or just try to deflect the interest and that’s the difference. We prove it can be done.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead
1 year ago
Reply to  Mehitable

My husband’s sister and her now-husband were both married to other people when they started their affair. [He’s about 25 years older than she is and was her manager at work.] They finally got divorced about a year later, and married each other. I was talking to DH about that and expressed my loss of respect for both of them; he replied, “Well, they were both in an unhappy marriage…” to which my reply is, I was in an extremely crappy first marriage (he was an alcoholic and narcissist, in addition to being a FW) but it NEVER would have occurred to me to cheat. I had a fuck buddy from way back that I got together with when the divorce was final, but I wouldn’t have even considered it while still married. They made that choice, and I reserve the right to judge them for it.

JeffWashington
JeffWashington
1 year ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Meditating upon the issue, the conclusion I came to was that I couldn’t live with the guilt of using or victimizing somebody or even begin to maintain a double(triple…quadrupal…) life. The thought experiment ends there, not at “so hmmm, is there like an app or a spreadsheet I can use?”

It ends at “it feels awful to even think about considering”.

Mine didn’t seem to believe that her actions have consequences. I think that is sort of the discriminating factor as well.

Bluewren
Bluewren
1 year ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Character is the difference- moral fibre and integrity.
Character shapes destiny.

ChumpDchump
ChumpDchump
1 year ago

The prevalence of forgiveness narratives in the culture surrounding infidelity reflects how far behind society is in recognizing infidelity as a form of abuse. Many, many people are simply not open to the idea that infidelity is anything more than a little sex between adults, and that an “enlightened” person should be able to forgive, get over it, become best friends with the AP, etc. The shame generated by this culture of toxic positivity leads so many people, myself included, to remain silent and isolated for fear that most people will either not care, or will actively think you are bitter and resentful. I really only share with this group because it’s the only place I feel safe with these experiences. I have received almost zero support from the very few people I have told.

One thing I have learned from this group is the broad range of human experience related to infidelity. While my experience was horrible, it was relatively benign in comparison to people who have experienced sexual assault, violence, harassment, threats, gaslighting, and much more from their FW. Most of us would think it a ghastly thing to expect a rape victim to forgive their assailant, and yet chumps are constantly shamed for giving up on marriages, being cold and bitter, etc.

Pain and trauma, and our responses to it, are survival tools. To forgive a cheater/abuser is to “cease to feel resentment against [the] offender” [Websters definition]. In other words, it is an affirmative act to ignore a feeling you have as a result of trauma. To ignore the feelings of pain from the trauma of infidelity abuse would be like ignoring the pain of a broken ankle and continuing to run a marathon. The only thing you will do is permanently destroy your leg.

Shadow
Shadow
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpDchump

I’ve read a fair bit on the Catholic take on forgiveness and it’s actually does not make any unfair demands on victims really. The victim mustn’t seek revenge, but can seek justice i.e. report to the law and prosecute if a crime has been committed. The victim must be prepared to let the anger go but is not expected to try to FORCE justifiable anger away; the victim just must not turn the anger into a dirty great festering grudge or let it harden into hatred. There is absolutely NO requirement to reconcile and resume relationship with the offender! None whatsoever. You not only can detach from them completely, you are told you should if abuse was involved, especially if you have children who need protecting. So, forgiveness in the Catholic sense is just literally being prepared to let go of the moral/spiritual/emotional debt owed you by the offender, though not the legal debt if it’s a crime. You can totally detach from someone with Christian Charity and I’m nearly there with my STBX now I’ve had No Contact with him for months. I won’t get there totally until I’ve moved away and have all ties with him severed but I am nowhere near as angry as I was and no lnger heartbroken, just a bit sad about the utter waste it was sometimes, so I think that counts as forgiveness. The victim is counselled to forgive for their own benefit ultimately though, not for the offender. If the offender isn’t repentant and contrite, they don’t want forgiveness anyway but the victim doesn’t even need to tell them about it!
IMO taking a cheat back and staying with them is pardon and absolution. I think adultery is unpardonable by the victim whilst the offender is still able to do it to them again and inflict trauma on them again. It’d be like pardoning and absolving someone who was holding a knife to your throat and actually nicking the skin!

JeffWashington
JeffWashington
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpDchump

We as a society maintain our ongoing fascination with victim blaming. It’s not “don’t shoot people”, it’s “don’t get shot.” There are people in the mass media trying to normalize fuckwittery(just saw an op-ed on polyamory in my city-the picture was a smiling thruple on a hike) because it helps them normalize and rationalize their own awful behavior. Then again, I suppose people are more likely to read articles or watch videos that validate an evil rather than make people feel guilty.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpDchump

I think cheating is one aspect of a constellation of negative personality traits. People who cheat, often lie, steal, deceive, con, trick – do things in various ways to get the edge on others, to get something they’re not entitled to, to beat out someone else, to take what isn’t theirs. They have no boundaries, they are willing to lie because it’s not MURDER, is it? They always have some horrible thing to compare their behavior to that’s the worst. Well, I’m not a NAZI, am I? It’s usually not just one thing or one problem or one flaw. There can often be alcoholism, drug addiction, personality disorders, financial theft, etc. It’s usually not just sexual infidelity in isolation of every other negative trait.

Chumpty Dumpty
Chumpty Dumpty
1 year ago
Reply to  Mehitable

… After you’ve accepted that your spouse possesses this constellation of traits, there really is only one more question, and that is. how many of these people are there??!

That is the question that hurts us to answer. I think the deeper trauma lies there.

Last edited 1 year ago by Chumpty Dumpty
Bluewren
Bluewren
1 year ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Yes- that’s Dickhead McCluggage to a tee- and his FOO.
The first hearing of court was certainly a roller coaster.
Bring on the next!

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpDchump

“The prevalence of forgiveness narratives in the culture surrounding infidelity reflects how far behind society is in recognizing infidelity as a form of abuse.”

I really think that those who haven’t experienced it cannot grasp how brutal the betrayal is. Leave the sex out of it, and it’s the betrayal, the lies, the sneaking around, those are what cuts to the bone. I don’t relish the idea that my FW slept with another woman. But for me, and it would seem for many other chumps, it is about the fact that your spouse who you trusted above ALL others was running around lying to you day in and day out for however long this went on. He let you make dinner for him and do his laundry and sleep with him all while unbeknownst to you, he was in love with someone else and actively engaging in a relationship that you knew NOTHING about. Those mundane every day lies are just so insidious and brutal.

Never mind the bigger, less mundane aspects, like exposing you to STDs, using marital funds for vacations with a schmoop.

It’s not just that they slept with someone else. They allowed YOU to live in a situation where you didn’t have all the facts of your own life and THEY did. I always use this example, but there is/was a Chump here who moved across the country for the FWs job. Away from friends/family/home. They thought they were supporting their FWs career. Not long after they found out the FW was following their AP. THAT is the kind of stuff that people that haven’t experienced cheating do not understand.

Shadow
Shadow
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

I agree that the fact you’re being deceived, made to live someone else’s warped fantasy of a life and played for a mug is truly horrific, but for me, STBX having sex did traumatise me, and still horrifies and disgusts me as well!
TBH, I still can’t let myself think about it and if a thought comes into my head, I find myself shaking it without conscious decision, as if I’m trying to shake the thought out of my head! It makes me shudder and feel a bit nauseated even to this day and I know I would never be able to come to terms with it nor get past it, but if I sever all ties with him, I’ll be able to lock it up forever in the big box in my mind marked “Things I Wish Weren’t A Thing!” and be able to live with it! No way could I if I had reconciled with him! Ugh, shudder!!!

Chumpty Dumpty
Chumpty Dumpty
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

Yes, my ex waited until we’d moved to another country, went through the charade of buying a house together — then moved out and abandoned us six weeks after we moved in. Stripped out as much of my support network as he could before he deserted us. He figured he would get his down payment back quickly. And I had poured a lot of my energy into backing and coaching his career. He conceived and carried out his plan to “erase” me (his words) over months, probably years.

Last edited 1 year ago by Chumpty Dumpty
Shadow
Shadow
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpty Dumpty

Oh Lord, that’s pure evil! Real malevolence! I’m so sorry. That should be a criminal offence! What a monstrous thing to do to someone!

Chumpty Dumpty
Chumpty Dumpty
1 year ago
Reply to  Shadow

Thank you, Shadow. Yeah, I agree that it is real malevolence. Honestly, being confronted with evil led, in my case, to a spiritual crisis first and foremost..It was a moral shock.

Chumpty Dumpty
Chumpty Dumpty
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpty Dumpty

I was presented with pure evil. I saw it with my eyes and I felt it in my bones.

That’s the shock. The sex stuff is not central, even though there’s a tendency to focus on it. What we go through is something more elemental.

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpty Dumpty

Chumpty,

See, this right here is what all those people who think cheating is no big deal are missing.

They think “oh, whoops her husband fell in love with someone else, heart wants what it wants, what can ya do?” or “oh, it’s just sex”. In the meantime, before he fell in love with tat particular AP, there were 5 others, and te sex led to the betrayed spouse getting a dangerous STD.

They don’t see the level of absolute treachery that actually takes place. Like moving you to another country to desert you 6 weeks later. That is despicable!

Chumpty Dumpty
Chumpty Dumpty
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

Thanks for the commiseration, Sort Of! It’s the chaos and treachery that harms. And saddles us with an untellable (to most people) and icky (for everyone) story.

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

Yes, and it isn’t just moving, so many decisions big and small and BS makes them while ignorant of the reality of their life. I agreed to co sign for a river front property, less than a year before he walked out the door and told me he never loved me and had been “dating” for ten years.

I assume he did it because he wanted a love nest for him and whore, and her signature wouldn’t mean anything because she had filed for bankruptcy just recently. I also think he planned on using it with her while I was in place for another year, until the next election; but oops someone filed an ethics complaint that December and his house of cards fell.

Leedy
Leedy
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

“It’s not just that they slept with someone else. They allowed YOU to live in a situation where you didn’t have all the facts of your own life and THEY did.” Absolutely. For me, that was by far the most traumatic part of being chumped, once I found out. And as you say, those who haven’t experience this kind of betrayal “cannot grasp how brutal” it is.

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago
Reply to  Leedy

My FW was outrageously jealous and controlling. I now know that was deflection, but I was utterly clueless at the time.

But for me? One of the most enraging things that I put up with all his controlling and accusatory behavior and I now realize that HE was cheating at the time. We’re talking about things like, sulking and having a tense household for days after I’d see my friends, to the point where I wouldn’t see them as often as I could as he made it unpleasant. And to be clear, “seeing my friends” was just hanging out in my friend’s yard with a handful of my oldest lady friends. It couldn’t have been any more innocent. And he’d be off for days after. Completely rubbing out any fun I’d had.

It’s such a small thing in the scheme of everything else. But knowing I put up with that behavior is a huge regret of mine. I thought I was just being a good wife and accepting him for “better or worse”. I thought he had trust issues based on his FOO. And to some extent, that is true. But more aptly, he knew that HE was up to no good, so I could have been too.

Leedy
Leedy
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

I’m so sorry you went through that. I too have great regret about the level of cruelty I put up with at home during the six years my ex was having his affair. (And along with the regret, there is simple astonishment! How come it took the discovery of an affair to make me decide I had to get out?)

Shadow
Shadow
1 year ago
Reply to  Leedy

And me! I am trying to forgive myself, because I had reasons- fear of isolation and poverty, which it turns out were valid- but I’d have been at the very least 2 years on by now and probably have gained a life, which I haven’t yet! I’m getting there though (the house is nearly ready to put on the market and houses are selling in Ireland because there’s a shortage and a severe lack of housing!) and I DO have much more peace of mind now I’m not having to endure his crap, and that’s priceless!

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago
Reply to  Leedy

“(And along with the regret, there is simple astonishment! How come it took the discovery of an affair to make me decide I had to get out?)”

You and me both!

ChumpDchump
ChumpDchump
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

“They allowed YOU to live in a situation where you didn’t have all the facts of your own life and THEY did.”

Yes. Which raises the question, what are you forgiving? Dorries thinks that she is forgiving a kiss in a hot tub. So many of us on here know from experience that the kiss is just what she knows of. Your reality is gone.

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago
Reply to  ChumpDchump

I know a LOT in my case, he admitted to it and so I realize that what I know is JUST the stuff he is willing to admit? It’s actually a little scary to recognize that what I know (years long affair) is just the tip. But I fully believe that there is so much more. My memory is terrible, but if it was better I bet I could look back over the past decades and see all sorts of suspicious things.

It’s really difficult to know that there is so much info out there that I am unaware of. But I know more than enough to answer “is this acceptable to you?” So there’s that.

Dorries is so deluded. I can’t even imagine what else her late ex got up to before the hot tub. That isn’t entry level fuckwittery. That was on his property with his wife sleeping upstairs. That is not entry level cheating. That didn’t just happen in a night.

Shadow
Shadow
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

Exactly! Let’s face it, none of us would get into a hot tub in the middle of the night with an OW/OM, especially not when our H or W is asleep in the house! Anyone who does that has bad intentions, and it’s really nasty to do it when your spouse is asleep a few feet away and blissfully ignorant of your foul intentions! He was a dirty old devil, end of!

Last edited 1 year ago by Shadow
SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago

Look, in looking back over my decades long relationship with a FW, I have realized my super power is ignoring red flags. So I have no high horse to climb on and judge the way any other Chump handles their situation.

But Holy Hell. It’s hard not to with this woman.

Maybe it’s some kind of compounded grief situation because he died.

But I could barely take her seriously.

I hope she can power through, because if she holds her family happy and intact, she will have more to be proud of than any of Kyle’s achievements on the football pitch.”

That woman is 32. If she leaves now, she could find a worthy husband if she’d like, and have a whole wonderful FW-free life ahead of her. If she stays? The likelihood that he will continue to cheat for decades is so incredibly high. I don’t want her to be like me, and be 50 wishing she left at 32.

JeffWashington
JeffWashington
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

There is a sort of compulsion among decent people not to speak ill of the dead, regret not doing more, etc. I wonder if that’s part of it. Doesn’t at all hurt that we get more reproach for “I’m glad that asshole is dead” than “the love of my life betrayed me and I was my most pathetic trying to keep that shit stain of a human being.”

Chumpty Dumpty
Chumpty Dumpty
1 year ago
Reply to  JeffWashington

It’s a fine line to walk. You don’t want to spend the rest of your life with a voice in your head triumphing that people are dead. But telling yourself a complete fairy story isn’t healthy in the long run, either.

Whatarollercoaster
Whatarollercoaster
1 year ago
Reply to  JeffWashington

I’m sorry that she was Chumped and sorry that he died and good that she was able to. Year him and all that, assuming that his affair partner has given up on him at some point

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago

Tracy, my love…..I had to give up reading this shit when I saw how the whore smiled at the Chump. I started seeing pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, and green clovers and I was no where near the Lucky Charms. If I’d seen that smile, she would have had a knuckle sandwich for breakfast. And he would have got the rest of the pig later.

This actually makes me think of that horrible 40s movie “The Women” except Paul dies. Fuck Paul. Here’s the bottom line to me:

Is this relationship acceptable to you? Is this what YOU WANT out of life? If it is, if it is acceptable to you that your husband wants to “kiss” gold diggers who smile at you when you catch them (man, she would have looked like an Ozarks bride when I was through with her), if you want to make excuses for him, if you have no damn self respect or righteous anger at all….go ahead and wallow. Go ahead and kiss his ass, kiss her ass, etc etc. Me, I would have gone over and peed on his grave. Cause you know there were not just kisses here and this gal wasn’t the first.

Is this a real story or more True Tales from Cheaterland, Home of the Whopper Shit Sandwich?

I’m being hard on Nadine here because frankly the whole story repulses me and so does the story of the football player’s wife who tolerates all kinds of bullshit because…money, I assume. Maybe Nadine actually misses Hillbilly Redford, but when someone dies we all re-assess our lives with them and our relationships and pluses and minuses, and there are often regrets and sadness and thoughts of lost opportunities. But believe me, if Hillbilly Redford had lived and been healthy, there probably would have been a lot more Smiling Petunias around and there probably were in the past too. I’m not one of those people who believes the Dead instantly become sanctified – if they were crap when they were alive, the smell hasn’t improved since.

Back to me Lucky Charms, they’re magically delicious!!!!

Bluewren
Bluewren
1 year ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Yes!
Shitty no account people stay that way- dead or not.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  Bluewren

Thank God, otherwise we’d have Zombie Fuckwits!!!! They’re the worst kind…

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago

Another thought to pass along to “Nadine”…..once they start cheating….or at least the first time you catch them…..they’ve probably been at it for a while and they don’t generally stop. This wasn’t his first high school kiss behind the bleachers.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago

Okay, I’m through with my snit over Hillbilly Redford and wanted to make perhaps a more thoughtful comment. Many, if not most of us, have regrets over lost relationships, especially when death is involved. A lot of us, cheated or not, have fond memories of people we had to give up on, or who just up and died. It’s okay to have a mixed bag of feelings and to recognize that you may have loved someone once who might not have been worth it, or maybe they were at one point and decided to change….for the worse. At some point you can perhaps remember some good things and enjoy those and perhaps feel some sorrow that it could not have turned out differently. But if you had tolerated the things you shouldn’t, then the regret you might feel, would be for yourself, and whatever it is you were willing to excuse and put up with, and the life that you might have had if you had loved and cared more for yourself than for someone who wasn’t worth it and who in the end, actively worked to hurt you.

Unless you’re in a crisis, which divorce is, life doesn’t have to be 100% one way or another, it can be a mix. That makes it bittersweet.

WidowChumpy
WidowChumpy
1 year ago

Nadine: “Surely, if love means anything, it means being able to forgive.“.

Sane person: Surely, if love means anything, it means not having it off with someone else whilst your wife is upstairs in bed.

Personally, I think forgiveness is a red herring – it relates to the past. Forgive/Don’t forgive, who cares? The question is whether, knowing what he was capable of doing, do you want to have him in your future?

I loved my husband and thought we had a happy marriage. I felt our future was stolen from us when he first died, but then I learnt of his double life and he died again. This second death stole my past, but it allowed me to claim a new brighter future for myself as I no longer want him to be part of it.

The best FW is a dead FW as far as I am concerned!

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago
Reply to  WidowChumpy

“but then I learnt of his double life and he died again”

First, I’m sorry you had to experience that. I can’t imagine how complicated one’s feelings would be in that situation. I feel half crazy most of the time and my story is so much more straightforward.

it’s interesting to me because I think that one of the parts of being chumped is that we all have to realize that the person we thought they were, the life we thought we had? They didn’t exist. I thought it was us against the world, us in it together. And boy was I wrong.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago

I suppose it never occurred to her that he reunited with her already knowing he was ill and would need a caregiver. What makes her think the diagnosis came after and not before? Well, perhaps the same thing that makes her believe he looks like Robert Redford.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Great point. Even if he didn’t have a specific diagnosis, he might have felt himself aging and possibly ill and time to go back to the gullible wife.

2xchump
2xchump
1 year ago

What about David Beckham and his continuous affairs, with wife enjoying being the first wife? It must be wide open for him but not for her? Do you have to be rich to enjoy a cheater on an hourly basis? But come on! We can have the status of FIRST WIFE? This story sets women back to being appliances and ok with a male having a harem while #1 is queen. This is centuries old, fear based and trash women who everyday make the decision not to share fluids with a cheater. These rich ladies just destroy my faith in woman as courageous especially doing end of life cake, oops I mean care. Then crying about regrets. But then you have Hilary Clinton, Jackie Kennedy and a bazillion others who stay on and on, keeping it all. Then you have Princess Diana who balked and got canned. She should have sucked it all up. *Sigh* I could never ever sleep under a cheater and kept going. Those are my values.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  2xchump

They’d rather be Mrs. Famous Cheater than Ms. Former Spouse of Famous Cheater. They get their perks and identity, IMO, from being associated with HIM (it’s usually women who do this I think). In the past I wouldn’t be too hard on a Jackie Kennedy etc because that was a different generation with different standards and options….many women would not have known how to support themselves and their kids and divorce….just wasn’t “done” in many circles. So they lived suppressed and narrowed lives. Jackie frankly blossomed once JFK was dead…I hate to put it bluntly like that but it is what it is. Hillary was the real disappointment because she had other resources of her own but she would rather be WIFE OF THE PRESIDENT than Ms. Hillary Rodham, Esq. I don’t have the admiration for Hillary that many do, I actually dislike her intensely and think she used men as a stepping stone, but I know that for that time period, maybe some women felt that was what they had to do. But being married to a disgusting pig like Bill Clinton – I can’t even imagine it. And this has nothing to do with politics, I’m talking purely on a relationship level.

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 year ago
Reply to  2xchump

What I don’t understand about the women that stay with their rich cheaters? If they left, they’d get a lot of money. Yes, they’d lose the potential of enjoying his future earnings, but they would not go from a castle to homeless. Victoria Beckham has earning potential of her own. And she’d get a large settlement. And that is true of many of the women we see stay with rich cheaters.

I can’t wrap my head around it. I am terrified of what will happen in my future living in an expensive area, with kids, on one income. If money wasn’t an issue, I would be so relieved.

Sometimes I wonder if the women who stay have experienced cheating by multiple men and have just given up as in “well everyone cheats, might as well stay with this one because at least I am crying in a mansion vs a shack”?

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  SortofOverIt

I think for some women there’s some kind of…prestige? in capturing the wild stallion….the most desirable thing in the herd, some bullshit like this, and that it’s a matter of look at me, I put a ring on this thing. That makes me Wife #1 in the Harem! For some women, that’s the way they look at things, I have this very desirable, highly ranked guy in whatever profession, and I claimed him, and even if he screws around I still have the ring on and I get the prestige. One has to admire Ivana Trump for divorcing Donald over his fuckery with Marla Maples. And then she continued to build a life of her own. Not as common as we think or as common as it SHOULD BE.

2xchump
2xchump
1 year ago

Thinking of a forgiveness scenario that would work for me. Cheater cheats, Chump drops the legal hammer to preserve finances, mental and physical health, kids college funds,self respect and healing from abuse. Cheater say OM Lord!!!!WHAT HAVE I DONE to my beautiful family, look at all I lost?? My forever ❤️ love gone? My babies shuffling back and forth forever?? Cheater drops all OW, stops, STOPS all the antics. Settles a generous support package, no attacks, no blame. Humble CONTRITE spirit. Stays SINGLE zero dating, ZERO fishing for kibbles. Totally on his/ her own. Takes kids on schedule, asks about former spouse. Goes to intensive therapy EVERY WEEK for -3- 4 years or until maturity sets in. Proves his love in all ways, groceries, clothes for kids, stays close to former family but NEVER INTERFERES. Never!! Write in diary his efforts and after 3 to 4 years asks if Chump wants to see his growth. Asks permission to SHOW he wants his family back in.all ways. Chump.has ALL THE CARDS in her/ his hand and decides yes or no or maybe but no promises. Then MAYBE dating for long term with no promises. None, it’s all up.to.the Chump. Then I might consider doing end of life care…however, would he graciously do the same for me?

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago
Reply to  2xchump

Yes….that would definitely be a Unicorn Sighting. Ribbons and glitter and all.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  2xchump

I’m pretty sure no cheater has ever done all of those things, but I agree, forgiveness would be possible if that was the case.

2xchump
2xchump
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Does this EVER happen? Unicorns might pop up?

Stephen
Stephen
1 year ago

I needed a good laugh tonight and this entire post made me laugh out loud. Especially this line: “I told him exactly what had happened and his response floored me: ‘Oh God, no, not again.’”

LOL!!! Oh no, not again. That is classic.

Reality check: Nadine had nothing to work with so I’m not sure what the point of this article is other than therapeutic psychobabble. Oddly, she was quite poetic which I guess made her mess-of-a-life-lost seem like something worth publishing.

Whatarollercoaster
Whatarollercoaster
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen

She is no longer an MP, so has time on her hands,I presume the gutter press pay for articles like this too, she’s getting herself back into the public eye. Maybe she has a new book coming out

RachelTheCatLady
RachelTheCatLady
1 year ago

Robert Redford 🤣🤣🤣

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 year ago

I don’t get the issue of forgiving or not. Forgiving is inherently about what happened in the past….but there seems to be this idea that if you forgive them what happened, somehow all will magically change and go back to being happy and that’s not what’s gonna happen unless the FW changes radically. And how would you know that’s really happening? Or what time frame it takes? Or how DIFFICULT it is to change? And that you have to WANT to and many of them – most of them, IMO, just want to cover it up better….not actually change. What metric can you use to judge that anything has really changed in your future….now current….life? You can ONLY go by past behavior and it’s not worth the risk. Additionally, you now know that they are capable of this – that this is a whole side to their nature you were unaware of before. How can you UNknow this about them and go back to a naive trust? YOU CAN’T.

Leedy
Leedy
1 year ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Exactly. My FW asked me why I wouldn’t (somehow automatically) “forgive” him, but I pointed out that what made me decide to separate was not that I didn’t forgive him but that I didn’t trust him anymore. To his credit, he kind of got it, and didn’t push the forgiveness topic anymore.

WillBrown
WillBrown
1 year ago

I think it is natural to succumb to what-ifs like this, and in my opinion the one positive thing that comes from giving the second (in my case also third….eighth….twentieth!) chances is getting that absolute certainty that you’re right to leave. As much as it tore me apart mentally and emotionally to repeatedly have hope built up and destroyed, at least it completely obliterated any “what if”. I’ve often imagined if I had left at the first discovery of betrayal like I should have, and I feel it’s very likely I might’ve second guessed that decision after a year or two of separation. Between human nature and a society heavily saturated in RIC rhetoric, I imagine it would take an uncommonly strong resolve to stick to a “one strike youre out” conviction…..the type of resolve that usually unfortunately only develops after weathering the crucible of emotional manipulation. And if we had taken that break first, I likely would not have uncovered all the other stuff I did, nor witnessed the myriad ways she would continue to fail to be reliable and trustworthy during that period of scrutinizing hypervigilence when the discovery was raw. I think about how much worse it could’ve been had I succumb to a temptation to reconcile after she had had that time and space apart to more effectively cover her tracks…..knowing we might well be in a “happy” repaired relationship, but at the expense of me being blissfully ignorant of reality. It’s a gross disturbing feeling. People like Dorries need to be exposed to more stories of people like me who tried to stay and forgive.

TrustingMyself
TrustingMyself
1 year ago

Oh my goodness I needed this this morning! I came on here having a particularly rough emotional morning – grieving – and I laughed and laughed at

“The proper way to handle this is with a strange question in a public setting.”

I’m seriously cracking up 😂