When Men Are Cheated On

If Google analytics are to be believed (and they know everything right?) about half of the people who read here are men.

Where are they? Mostly lurking. (Assuming they aren’t your stalking ex. Google doesn’t have a break down for that. Yet.)

With 26 million-plus page views and nearly 5 million unique visitors — that’s a lot of guys with a morbid curiosity about infidelity.

Probably because it happened to them. And no one talks about it.

Until today I’d never devoted a column to what exactly makes the guy chump experience uniquely sucktacular. A reader reached out to me on Twitter to ask for this column, (I can only assume because guy chumps aren’t knocking down doors to write it.)

But first some caveats — THIS IS NOT THE PAIN OLYMPICS. Today we’re going to be empathetic to the good guys, the men who loved with their whole hearts, and got played. I too am owed thousands in back child support. I am painfully aware of the Patriarchy. Women usually have it worse by many measures. Understood. But if you care about justice, you care about it for everyone.

And if you believe in the full humanity of all — then you also understand that Everyone Can Suck. Women can suck, gay people can suck… Because we’re human, a portion of us are going to suck. Accepting that there are guy chumps, we must also accept that some straight women and gay men are terrible people.

Also, this isn’t a valentine to the Men’s Rights trolls, those incels who hate everything with an ovary. This is about our people — chumps. Guys who believed in commitment and family, and got fucked over. Without further ado.

What Uniquely Sucks About Being a Guy Chump:

1.) Paternity testing. Everything is so jolly about those made-for-TV cheater romances, but you never see the DNA kits. Left off screen is the guy who has to cheek swab his child. Or tortures himself thinking about it.

The accepted narrative (if we talk about this at all) is that of COURSE the man loves the child he was deceived into thinking was his. And okay, his wife was naughty, but Wasn’t It All For The Best because Love Is Love?

No one imagines the horror of such a betrayal. To the man, and the child. The cheater receives the investment of this man’s love and support, and the child has a primal bond with a parent risked, damaged, or destroyed — because of a mother’s deceit.

And the story is always told as the mother’s Forbidden Love or the Terrible Shame she carries for not being able to speak of her dalliance. It’s never cast as a monstrously selfish, cruel thing to do to the people you purport to love. Or seen as theft of another’s reality.

2.) Everyone assumes you suck. Did you get divorced? Oh men are dogs. You must be the villain here, the cheater, the person who wasn’t Meeting Her Needs.

3.) Men don’t talk about it. Whereas women have support systems, girls nights out, and box wine memes, men have crickets. If you can’t talk about it, how do you find the men who’ve gone through it? Do they find you? Do you tell your best friend?

4.) “Cuck.” (Short for cuckold.) We can thank white supremacists for this all-purpose insult to denote weakness.

The cultural importance of the cuckold in America is rooted in racism: in pornography, the wife of the cuckolded (almost exclusively white) husband is most commonly sleeping with African-American men, meant to provide an additional layer of humiliation if the white husband sees that man as “inferior.” In the world of pornography meant to elicit humiliation as an erotic sentiment, cuckold porn takes advantage of its viewers’ racist perceptions.

Yeah. Women get called a lot of things, but we don’t have “cuck.”

5.) Custody. States are coming round to 50/50 custody, but the fact is, if you divorce you’ll lose time with your children. That’s true for both men and women, but more time lost is generally only true for men. A lot of guys get chumped and then are looking down the barrel of every other weekend.

6.) Having to pay child support and/or alimony to your ex and her affair partner(s). Every other weekend, plus the cherry on the shit sundae of paying for the privilege.

Every good man supports his children. And child support doesn’t in any way approximate the costs of what it takes to raise a child — however, there is a unique horror in writing a check so that another man (a man who fucked your then-wife) can raise your child.

My only advice to you chumps is — it’s expensive because it’s worth it. Alimony to a cheater is like paying for mold remediation or asbestos removal. You can’t live with it, and you have to pay to get rid of it.

Guy chumps, just remember — as a faithful, whole-heart loving man — you’re a stock that trades high. Never forget it. All the best!

Also, it’s time to come out of the shadows and comment today.

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Resilient
Resilient
4 years ago

ALL my love to you men who were chumped. And if you had children I hope you keep being that sane and responsible parent! I hope you read Chump Lady books (she includes men who were truly scarred by such a betrayal of trust).

Gary
Gary
4 years ago
Reply to  Resilient

We all walk the silent screaming road of being chumped , men and woman who never saw it coming blindsided by some one you loved, my divorce is nearly over my children I only see for half of the week, there is light at the end of the road. There were times I could not see a way forward the pain was to much, it’s taken me over two years to get to where I can think straight again. You don’t see any happiness in those dark days of discovery when your world falls apart.
I think how my children have been through the mill too, there dad grumpy with no smile I feel that I robbed them of fun at that time.. I will never forget how my ex sat our eight year old daughter down and told her we were separating,
Thank you for your column it got me through some very tough times . Regards

Turbo
Turbo
4 years ago
Reply to  Gary

Sorry for your pain Gary!! It took me about 4 years to bury the pain after DDay. So, I hear you brother and, you’re in the right place (Chump Nation). Hang in there for your kids.

Gary
Gary
4 years ago
Reply to  Turbo

Thank you turbo for your kind words, I feel your pain too , we are both strong now , I have 2 beautiful daughters who make me so happy when I have them take care my friend

Mandie101
Mandie101
4 years ago
Reply to  Gary

This. It changes you into a parent you would have never been. Try as you might.

Lori
Lori
4 years ago
Reply to  Mandie101

I had to screen shot your comment!…sums up my feelings ????!

ChumpedDude
ChumpedDude
4 years ago

I’m a chump!

Thank you for writing this column, Tracy! It means so much to me (as a typical lurker) to know that someone understands! This isn’t a great community and I’m so grateful for the support you’ve provided to me!

Sydneychump
Sydneychump
4 years ago

Thank you for posting that, definitely needed that reminder today as I’m in the trenches and have hit a low point.

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
4 years ago
Reply to  Sydneychump

Sydneychump,
I am so sorry to read you are “in the trenches and have hit a low point.”
I want to be there beside you and lighten your load.
In your heart please feel the love and support of CN!
❤️

Stig
Stig
4 years ago

Many a good man has been screwed over by a BPD, narcissistic or just plain selfish partner. I salute all the hard yards you did/do to support your families, only to find that the 50/50 you thought you had, had been devalued by someone who don’t realise the gold they had in their own back yard and went looking for greener pastures. It sucks, but you definitely don’t and as Chump Lady said, you’re stock trades high in the world, so let yourself move on and there will be plenty of good ones waiting to appreciate what you have to offer. Another point, there’s not many things more hurtful to a child than to realise that your mother figure is a damaged, possibly disordered person, so thank you to all those dads who are the sane parent and soft place to land for hurting kids.

Stig
Stig
4 years ago
Reply to  Stig

Didn’t

SuperDuperChump
SuperDuperChump
4 years ago

I wonder if he keeps the beautiful Oak tree manicured in the back yard of my former house like I did. The Oak tree that I planted and nurtured through the drought 24 years ago. The one my children played under. My sister says it’s always the backdrop for their FB pics together.

SuzyQ
SuzyQ
4 years ago

Gah. This hit me right in the guts. I’m so sorry.

My idiot ex husband cheater has destroyed the garden at the OW’s house (formerly her marital home. Her husband kept it beautiful and even did all the housework.)

I think these people like to shit on everyone and everything else.

I hope you find a new tree to nurture in a new garden where you can feel happy and secure. You’re not backdrop for their drama anymore.

Samsara
Samsara
4 years ago

I heard this quote the other day:

“The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time to plant one is now.”

Sending you strength.

MissBailey
MissBailey
4 years ago

One day in the future that very tree may tell a different story of a different family who will appreciate the time and care given by you.

SelfRespectin2017
SelfRespectin2017
4 years ago

Clearly, you’re the one who nurtures and they’re parasites. Hugs to you, SuperDuperChump.

Kintsugi
Kintsugi
4 years ago

(((Hugs)))

Plant another tree anyway.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago

Fuck.

Bloomingwithouthim
Bloomingwithouthim
4 years ago

Super Duper,
????
Maybe it will fall on him someday.
Karma.

Daddypants
Daddypants
4 years ago

I’m a chump, too. She was a serial cheater and left me for an affair pattern, whom she then married to get out of the morality clause of our divorce decree. She couldn’t wait 6 months to introduce her boyfriend to our kids. I lost everything – I had to buy her out of my business, sell the house, and she walked away with everything. I pay HER child support and we share the kids 50/50. I resent the hell out of my lawyer and the legal system. But I still do the right thing for the kids every step of the way. And I hold myself accountable to continue being the best dad that I can be.

BetterDaysAhead
BetterDaysAhead
4 years ago
Reply to  Daddypants

Thank you for sharing DaddyPants. It’s not often that I hear that men get screwed over too. Sorry that things went the way it did. I don’t think it’s fair that most states are “no fault” so a person can screw you over and make you pay them for it. That’s just backwards. Hang in there.

The Original Melissa
The Original Melissa
4 years ago
Reply to  Daddypants

The legal system is harsh on the “higher income earner”, it assumes we are rolling and it’s very punishing. I’m the chump. I bought him out of the house, I share 50/50 child custody and still have to pay him $800/month in child support. Plus 60% of child expenses. On top of that, he spends MY money on a new SUV and his girlfriend, and I’m buying clothes for my children while they are at his house, because he doesn’t clothe them. Meanwhile I can barely afford to put gas in my car and I look under couch cushions to gather bus fare. But….I’m the higher income earner.

I was always very resentful of the legal system and my lawyer. I kept shouting (yes,I was hardly ever not shouting) at my lawyer that the system assumes I’m a stay at home mom with no means to support myself, and because I’m none of those things, I’m being punished like a man.
It was an eye opener on the legal system. The family law system. And just very discouraging. I screamed into a pillow (and without a pillow) many days, at the unfairness if my situation. It will get better for us! The kids will turn 18 some day and we can stop sending checks.

DiscardedWife
DiscardedWife
4 years ago

Our 42 years together came down to a spreadsheet — that I created! I filed as soon as I got confirmation of the affair. What more is there to say when your husband gets six inches from your face and says “yes, I really love her AND I DON’T LOVE YOU.” AP is married to an attorney (who is in a nursing home, dying of dementia) and AP was a former legal secretary. I filed ASAP to protect my retirement. So glad I did. I hit my ex while he was still in lust land with his AP and feeling guilty. Walked away with 2/3 of the marital assets, but I was the high income earner and HE never wanted to spend any money with me. I suspect AP is hurting for money with her husband in a non-Medicare funded nursing home bed. My ex is an idiot, but he is HER idiot now.

Involuntary Georgian
Involuntary Georgian
4 years ago

I don’t know what the solution is. My XW pays me *exactly* what you pay your XH. I don’t feel it’s unfair at all because (1) she earned 50% more than me at divorce, mainly because I’d put my career on the back burner to look after the kids, house, etc., (2) she swapped me out for her younger and higher-paid AP, so she has the financial resources to pay more, and (3) she’s the one who had the affair. I am in an extremely conservative state, but still the only thing that was considered at time of divorce was our respective salaries. There is absolutely no way she could have had the career she’s had AND had three kids without be doing the vast majority of the homefront work, yet as soon as our youngest got to school age she expected to walk away with 100% of her salary while also claiming 50% of the kids.

As far as I can tell, the family court has explicitly (and deliberately) removed any discussion of which parent had put more into the family (except for the most egregious cases) or which parent engaged in morally dubious behavior (except for the most egregious cases). As long as that’s the way the system works, you (a blameless chump) are going to be treated the same as my XW (a philandering hussy). My state even has at-fault divorce, but I didn’t bother pursuing it because I was advised that though I’d probably win, I’d need to have my daughter testify (since she had the only direct knowledge of the affair) and at best it would affect asset distribution only slightly (that is, my increased share of family assets wouldn’t pay the extra legal costs associated with a court battle). Basically, family law has given up on trying to assign blame in divorce cases, so all that’s left is a spreadsheet.

OCWoman
OCWoman
4 years ago

I am right there with you.
I have my needs met but he will be a very rich man when his obligated payments come to an end.
I will have enough, but he has the significantly higher paying job, the ability to grow his retirement and take expensive trips with our children. I will not.
If I had to do it over, I would have kept separate accounts and made him pay ME for all the support that got his sorry ass into his high paying job.

OCWoman
OCWoman
4 years ago
Reply to  OCWoman

Oh Involuntary Georgian, I missed your handle. I got divorced in GA too.

thelongrun
thelongrun
4 years ago

Involuntary Georgian,

I left a high paying job in early 2013 and went into the worst depression of my life. I didn’t fully realize it, but I was also battling Type II diabetes. The FW XW fell in wuv w/her AP, her then boss, according to her almost immediately when he became her boss at the beginning of 2015. By the end of 2016, he’d picked up on her unrequited wuv and told her he felt the same. Then they had an affair for 3-4 months, w/me wondering why she got colder to me than ever after 24.5 yrs of a loving marriage (at least on my end). Not a perfect marriage, but I definitely truly loved and lusted for her all along, and was totally faithful.

I found lower paying jobs after leaving my profession, in an effort to continue to help support the family. When I finally confronted her, she left me w/in two weeks, w/barely a glance back. After 6 months w/out her (but w/them living in an apartment literally 1/2 mile down the street from me), I finally realized I had to divorce her and got a lawyer.

I’m paying her right now out of my retirement money her half of the principal of our former house (now mine), plus 25K, which is funny because she originally told me she wouldn’t ask for anything else since she didn’t want to hurt me anymore, when I confronted her on D-day. She got fired then found another job that made more than mine, three months after being informed she would be losing her job (but only one month after actually being booted out).

She pays me child support. Initially, she balked at paying me roughly $122/mo for it, then agreed to $100/mo (there was about a $10,000 difference in our salaries, at that point). She proceeded to pay me $145/mo because she felt guilty that I was covering our youngest’s cell phone plan all alone. But you’re right, it came down to a spreadsheet for the court. It was about income inequality, and nothing else. And she still tried to fight it at first.

This past winter she upped it to $200+/mo, because she got promoted at her work. She did it w/the caveat that I provide proof that I’m still making roughly the same amount as last year. I ghosted her on this. I didn’t ask for it, and I sure as hell wasn’t going to jump through hoops anymore for her. She kept paying it w/out me saying a word or doing a thing. I’m still attributing that to her sense of guilt.

I know I got off easier than a lot of other male chumps. That makes me sad. But my anger at the XW is unabated. I feel if there were true justice, any cheater would give up any claim to any money from their chump, and custody would be awarded to the chump providing they’re a sane, normal parent. The cheater would only get custody time after they proved they were acting sane and in the child’s best interests. But the reality is, how the hell does the court do that? So we’re stuck w/this very unfair, unequal, and unjust system. We need to figure out how to make it work better. Just my two cents.

Here’s a wish for a more peaceful and prosperous future for all my fellow brother chumps. We may have been discarded, but let’s prove to those treacherous former wives that we’re survivors and thrivers. All the best to all chumps and their families. And thank you, Tracy, for shining a light on the men who loved their partners the w/all their hearts and to the best of their abilities, but were dumped and chumped anyway. Fuckwits, beware! We’re becoming wise to you now.

ChumpTight
ChumpTight
4 years ago
Reply to  thelongrun

thelongrun, the only thing my STBXW will not agree on is the child support & maintenance. Which my lawyer and vocational expert have looked the numbers over and $1600/month is what they came up with. She resigned from her position to try and avoid paying and trying to get me to pay her. She fucked me over again and I’m not backing down from it. She didn’t think I’d leave her this time and that I would forgive and forget as I did the previous times.
I have made what I think is a decent offer to her. If she lets me have full custody of the kids then I would take no money from her. She values her money a lot and I have always been the primary caretaker of the kids son we’ll see what happens. Her boyfriend just today agreed to only see his youngest son every other weekend. So I’m hoping she follows suit so they can spend more of their precious time together.
I’m about a 1 1/2 years out from confronting her and I have come along way since then. I had the support from some great friends, a new great woman by my side, my community in which we both live and they have disowned these two assholes and of course CL & CN. I hope you continue to heal and get stronger as each day passes. I stand behind you, and our chump brothers and sisters!

thelongrun
thelongrun
4 years ago
Reply to  ChumpTight

That sucks, ChumpTight. Hang in there, and no, I agree, don’t back down. My wish for you is what you wished for me: to heal and get stronger every day. May your Tuesday be sooner rather than later, and may your path to meh be shorter, not longer. That goes for all of us chumps.

ChumpMe
ChumpMe
4 years ago

Yes I live in a conservative fault state – this was not my XH’s first rodeo and they said it wouldn’t matter at all!

Duped
Duped
4 years ago

^^^THIS! SO THIS!!!^^^ Our 29 years together came down to a spreadsheet.

Elderly Chump
Elderly Chump
4 years ago
Reply to  Duped

I was so enraged by this at the beginning that I had no rage left for the X.

The Original Melissa
The Original Melissa
4 years ago

100% correct that it comes down to spreadsheets.

In my case, STBXH and I had very similar incomes, but he lost his job (where he was having his affair) and had trouble finding work after. My child support $ is based on what he makes now vs what I make.
I put him through school. We were looking into MBA programs for him just before I discovered his affair so I’m just grateful I didn’t end up paying for more of his degrees.
With 3 kids, I would say I still carried all the load, as lots mothers do when they have a selfish and self-absorbed husband. He helped minimally. I progressed in my career at the same time, and I don’t attribute that to him. I work hard, and I didnt sleep much.

The only thing I’m grateful for is that he agreed to not pursue alimony. Mostly because lawyers agreed it would be tough to demonstrate need. We’re the same age, university educated (I paid for his!) And same income level until just recently.

Involuntary Georgian
Involuntary Georgian
4 years ago

Yep. You got screwed. Lots of male chumps get screwed too. I don’t think it’s really about gender, except to the extent that typically women tend to put more into the family (and therefore less into their careers) than men do, so the most common direction of income transfer seems to be male-to-female. But since divorces are evaluated case-by-case, there are plenty of women (like you) who get caught on the unfair side. It’s galling when people make blanket statements about a situation and you’re left sputtering “but my case is the complete opposite of that!” If it’ll help, I’ll buy you a beer next time you’re in Atlanta.

The Original Melissa
The Original Melissa
4 years ago

???? definitely!

Alisa
Alisa
4 years ago
Reply to  Daddypants

I’m sorry that this happened to you. Keep being the best dad you can be! Great dads rock, seriously. Your kids will know the truth someday.

Bloomingwithouthim
Bloomingwithouthim
4 years ago

My dad and I did a paternity test when I was in my forties (I’m his). I have no idea what my mom did to make him think I might not be his, but I know she slept around alot (even locked my little sister and me in the house while she was out with men) after their divorce because I caught her in the act and she beat me when I told her. She also kept us estranged from my dad. Now that I’m an adult and have removed myself from my relationship with my abusive mother I have been able to restore things a bit with my dad and realize that the nasty woman I dealt with at home was even nastier to him. ????
I’m so sorry men. Some women are real trash and extraordinary liars.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago

That’s awful. Thanks for sharing. One of the first people I started to tell my story to responded by telling me about her estranged mother. It went a long way in helping me piece reality together.

EstellaO
EstellaO
4 years ago

I’m so sorry this happened to you! I’m glad you are taking steps as an adult to distance yourself from the abuse. Take good care of yourself!

EstellaO
EstellaO
4 years ago

Most definitely a worthy post to acknowledge the many issues faced by men in this situation–and extra props to those men who break this taboo and speak honestly from the heart about it.

The Atlantic had an article last year about the popularity of DNA testing that opened with a paternity surprise (“When a DNA Test Shatters Your Identity”). Some in the woman’s family didn’t think the her mother’s cheating was that big a deal. (It isn’t even named as cheating in the opening.) So frustrating and wrong! (She, however, took it seriously, stopped discussing it with some family, found her biological father, and started a support group on Facebook–a mighty response!)

douchefreelife
douchefreelife
4 years ago

I am not a male chump but I can relate to being chumped.

My divorce has been expensive and I was left financially devastated.Had to borrow money to pay for this. I had to change lawyers but the bonus was that I was referred to a great lawyer who is the reason that I have some hope now. Anyhow, this article is right, divorce is expensive, but like asbestos, once it is in your life, it’s there and causing trouble. Getting rid of cheaters is worth it before they destroy you and your finances.

Robert Louis Chumpinson
Robert Louis Chumpinson
4 years ago

Thanks, Tracy, well executed.

I would add one more thing that sucks: Say that, along with your wife’s infidelity, you suffered years of manipulation and emotional abuse because you were trying to hold your family together for the kids. And rather than kill yourself or drown the rest of your life in hard alcohol, you reach out to the people closest to you for help about that abuse. Everyone rallies to your side, right?

Haha! No, on top of everything else, you’re treated as a wuss and a pariah.

thelongrun
thelongrun
4 years ago

Robert Louis Chumpinson,

Right. We must be wusses and made pariahs. Because we’re so progressive as a modern society. I got told shortly after D-day by coworkers (male and female) that they assumed I was pussy-whipped because I would always ask for the days off the XW said she needed to do something (for her job, for her local political career, for her roller derby hobby, etc.).

I always viewed our marriage as a partnership, so she could ask things of me and vice versa. What I wasn’t paying attention to in the last few years (at least not consciously) was that I was starting to do a lot more things out of love for her, but that was not being reciprocated. I realized this in the year after she left me and tore the family apart.

On the plus side (believe it or not, the one positive out of all this is I am trying much more than I used to to always look for the positive in things), my oldest daughter just stopped by at my work space to say hello to her dad after she got out of work. She and her younger sister have realized that, in their words, “Mom has changed.” I don’t think it’s the time for me to talk w/them about the very possible personality disorder their mother has. I probably won’t talk w/them about that unless they ask me for more particulars about the divorce. But they both said they can’t stand the XW’s AP that she’s shacked up w/. They now live an eighth of a mile behind me (me still in our former house, now solely mine). The plus side to this situation? Well, at least our youngest (almost 14 yr old son) doesn’t have far to travel between us for the 50/50 custody.

We’re all going to come out of these horrible experiences stronger than ever. Power to all us chumps! Keep on being mighty.

No Shit Cupcakes
No Shit Cupcakes
4 years ago

Ugh. That just stinks.

More needs to be shouted from the treetops about the fact that women can and do abuse men. They may not hit them as hard, or as frequently, but they are every bit as capable of committing violence and emotional abuse.

Bob
Bob
4 years ago

I’m a guy chump too. Married 21 years, together nearly 23 years. Have two boys aged 12, one with ADHD and ODD. Our marriage had ups and downs like any other, but I loved her dearly and would never cheat on her or hurt her (she was married briefly before me and said her first husband cheated on her).

On November 2nd, 2018, she left. She said she was overwhelmed dealing with our ODD son and needed a break. She said I was a good dad, husband, provider, etc. but felt like we had become roommates and intimacy was down, due partly to the fact that I worked days and she worked nights so one of us was always with the boys.

She was supposed to be staying at her moms for 30 days. After 30 days she announced she wanted a divorce. She denied seeing anyone but said someone was “interested “ in her. She backed off the divorce after pleading by me.

I subsequently found out from her mother and brother she had rarely stayed at her moms but was living 70 miles away with a guy she met online. I also learned there had been others as well. I found pictures of them together on Facebook at the beach and a hockey game, looking very much like a couple.

I tried getting her to attend marriage counseling. She wouldn’t. She initially denied but eventually again asked for a divorce and said they had been “friends “ for over a year, but wouldn’t say how they met ( my brother in law thinks dating sites).

I continued to try to work things out while she continued to live with her schmoopie.
On Mother’s Day, I asked her if I should file for divorce since it had been more than 6 months. She then said she didn’t know what she wanted.

She came by a couple weeks later and was very kind to me, hugging and kissing me and talking about the family doing something together on Father’s Day, even though she continued to live with her boyfriend and listed her status as separated on Facebook.

The day before Father’s Day, my son found pictures of the two of them on Facebook, proclaiming their love for each other. I called her on it.

A week later, she said she wasn’t in love with me. She said she didn’t want to be around a “tornado “(what she called our ADHD son) and hadn’t loved me for years.

I filed for divorce on June 24th. Since she left, she’s seen her sons about 10 times. Her mother and brother have essentially disowned her. The entire family is devastated.

No Shit Cupcakes
No Shit Cupcakes
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob

*jaw drops*

Would keeping a hardbound contemporaneous journal with time spent with you (and how – homework, P/T conferences, physicians, etc.) vs. time spent with her (or NOT) help in any way? I know that as a male Chump you are still more likely to get screwed financially than not but is there any way to minimize it?

At 12, I hope that a judge will ask the boys for their input regarding who they want as their primary parent.

I am so sorry. At least her family has taken a principled stand. For now if not for always.

Robert Louis Chumpinson
Robert Louis Chumpinson
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob

Dear Robert,

1) Get the hell out, you’re being played for a sucker. See a divorce lawyer today, and take immediate action.
2) It sucks, Lord knows, but it will get better quickly.
3) I bet your sons’ conditions improve with papa’s undistracted love.
4) Your relationship is toast. Every minute that you pretend it isn’t must be paid in terms of your self-respect, and that road leads to dark places.
5) Work on making yourself the best man you can be.
6) It’s no longer about her. You’re free.

John
John
4 years ago

As I read through this, she was trying to end things but you kept holding on. She tried to walk away instead of continuing to cheat but you begged her to try marriage counseling. Why blame her… She tried to cut ties and do the right thing but you wouldn’t let her go.

Bob
Bob
4 years ago
Reply to  John

I loved and still love my wife. I hate that our marriage has come to this. I tried everything I could think of to try to save it, because despite what happened, if it would work it was worth it to me.

Mitz
Mitz
4 years ago
Reply to  John

I didn’t read it that way at all. She was stringing him along as a Plan B.

Bob
Bob
4 years ago
Reply to  John

You sound like my wife’s affair partner. She initially denied cheating. She wanted a 30 day separation because she said she needed a break. There wasn’t any mention of anyone else.
After 30 days, she said she thought she wanted a divorce. We talked about it and I admit I pleaded with her to think about it. She said she would. I learned about her affair a couple weeks later, from her brother.

EnoughAlready
EnoughAlready
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob

Tracy!
I just had to apologise for the misspelling of CL’s name.
It’s one of the things that drove me crazy about Xhole – would always get people’s names wrong and didn’t care, especially if they were my relatives or friends!

EnoughAlready
EnoughAlready
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob

Bob,
Everything you’ve written is totally believable and genuine.
Meanwhile, could Tracey please fire up the Universal Bullshit Translator for John’s comments including this gem:
‘She tried to cut ties and do the right thing but you wouldn’t let her go’

Bob
Bob
4 years ago
Reply to  Bob

Besides which, if she seriously wanted to divorce then, nothing could have stopped her. I live in a no fault state.
She waffled back and forth, playing with my emotions while she carried on with her affair. I was trying to save my marriage and family.

ChumpTight
ChumpTight
4 years ago

No doubt! My STBXW used to hit me and verbally abuse me often but I just took it. She even punched me in the face in front of an officer once and I declined to press charges. I had confronted her about her behavior while out one night. She was groping some guy she knew from middle school. Wish I would have pursued that. Another time she gave me a bloody nose. Of course I never raised a hand ever. She just didn’t like to be confronted about her whoring ways.

No Shit Cupcakes
No Shit Cupcakes
4 years ago
Reply to  ChumpTight

” She even punched me in the face in front of an officer once and I declined to press charges.”

I didn’t know that you could decline at that point. Seriously. I thought if it was witnessed by an officer they could simply arrest her for assault and the state takes over from there.

I am so very sorry. You are so much better off without her but at the time you were singing from a completely different song sheet than she was and didn’t know it.

Baffled
Baffled
4 years ago

Women physically abuse men almost as much as men abuse women. (Erin Pizzey says this much, and she opened the first domestic violence shelter in 1971.) Women are also more likely to use objects when hitting (knives, guns, a can of soup, I know a man whose wife came up behind him and beat him over the head with a cooler), to beat a partner while that partner is sleeping, and to aim for the genitals while hitting. Society seems to expect women to throw fits and so enables them to get away with it. Since women are, by and large, smaller than men, they can’t do much harm – or so goes the defective narrative.

“According to surveys and crime statistics, a man is battered every 37.8 seconds in domestic violence incidents across America. Surveys show women strike the first blow in about half of the domestic disputes nationwide, and a National Violence Against Women survey even unexpectedly found that nearly 40 percent of domestic violence victims annually are men. Police in states nationwide are receiving training in how to identify the “primary aggressor” in domestic violence, and police crackdowns on spouse/partner abuse are netting more and more arrests of women as the abusers. ” (See Philip W. Cook’s book, “Abused Men: the Hidden Side of Domestic Violence”.)

I speak as a woman who fled an abusive man. I had hotlines and shelters available to me. I know several men who had wives and partners who physically and sexually abused them. No shelters for men, though. The women’s groups fight to have them closed when someone dares to open one. Several years ago, in Toronto, there was a billboard featuring a woman raising her hand to a man in a threatening gesture, along with a hotline for men to call. The local women’s groups deemed it misogynist and since they have funding, they got it removed.

The elephant in the room seems to be: it is not permitted to say thst women can be just as abusive as men can, and in the same ways. Part of being recognized as equal means being recognized as having complete agency: women are just as capable as men of choosing evil over good. We seem to be stuck in a Victorian narrative that women are by nature caring and nurturing, and inherently less capable of violence and deceit. I am no right winger, for the record. But this much has become clear to me.

TooSmartforthisShit
TooSmartforthisShit
4 years ago
Reply to  Baffled

AMEN. I’m a woman that supports equal rights but that means equal. I’m even think draft registration should include females.

Pas_the_chump
Pas_the_chump
4 years ago

So very true.

Chumpianx2
Chumpianx2
4 years ago

I’m so sorry! Devastating.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago

This. And don’t forget the Switzerland friends.

SorryItsnotfiftyfifty
SorryItsnotfiftyfifty
4 years ago

Wonder how many men are sharing this to send fb world the message it wasn’t their fault – even though it was – and how much their life sucks now *because of their former wife. I certainly could see mine doing that.

thelongrun
thelongrun
4 years ago

SorryItsnotfiftyfifty,

I’d be real surprised if asshole male cheaters go looking for stuff like this. I think for cheaters in general, that’s too much work for their lazy asses. If any do, I’d guess they’re in a very small minority. Let’s try to be supportive, ok? I know it’s easy to view everything from our personal world of pain. I think that Yesshesucks was pointing in that direction.

And Yesshesucks? I hear you!

TooSmartforthisShit
TooSmartforthisShit
4 years ago
Reply to  thelongrun

Actually I was thinking one of the particular to men suckitudes was the number of make narcs that like to lie to women about “how they have been cheated on and would never ever do it because they know how devastating it is”. My ex loves to play that wounded but brave schtick. What is the most evil about it is how suspicious it makes nice women towards truly chumped guys. Y’all have my deepest sympathies guy. No good person deserves the meat grinder of being chumped.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago

Point #2 from the article in action …

Tall One
Tall One
4 years ago

A friend of mine is trying the swipe dating app. She sometimes shares the guy-profiles which makes me feel great; I’ve got no face tattoos, no motorcycle, I’m not usually holding a walleye.
Or any combination of the three.

Nothing wrong with any of that; I’m just a catch in my own way.

For 20+ yrs I was never reminded of that. I clung to a sad relationship b/c those are my values. Now, here I am figuring it out.

Not seeing my kids 1/2 the time is the worst. But I have a stronger relationship with them.

The economics are stressful and scarier. But I can grow up and determine my own pathway.

I’m meeting new people, leaving (sadly) long-term relationships behind. I’ve developed boundaries, but keep my heart vulnerability.

Being a guy does come with potential potholes.

I used to think divorce was the scariest thing to go through. Best thing (not easiest!) to happen to me.

TwiceCheated
TwiceCheated
4 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

<3 <3 <3

Tempest
Tempest
4 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

There are many of us who look for “genuine” in online profiles. Don’t give up; use your dark sense of humor to get through all the cringey profiles (and dates).

The Original Melissa
The Original Melissa
4 years ago
Reply to  Tall One

Just came to say, your comment on face tattoos and holding a wall-eye made me spit out my coffee! Its so true…I dont know where you are, but those motorcycle photos and look-at-me-hold-a-fish photos must be universal. And that is incredibly sad ????

UXworld
UXworld
4 years ago

I had a “compare notes” thing going with fellow Chump a few years ago and here’s what I saw from the female profile side:

— I’m convinced that some singles consultant is making a fortune advising women to include a pic of them steering a boat. Far to many to count.

— Profile statements hoping to find a “partner in crime.” It’s as if every woman in America has held a secret desire to commit misdemeanors, of only they had suitable male companionship.

— Duck lip selfies from the drivers seat of their car. At age 40+. Like they’re auditioning for Jersey Shore.

Gonegirl
Gonegirl
4 years ago

My husband is a chump. His ex had numerous affairs throughout their whole marriage. Him and his ex owned a business together, which she didn’t contribute to at all, then broke in and stole money from it. He gets the glorious job of paying her for a business she had no part of, contributing to her partying lifestyle.

Luckily their daughter is adopted, so paternity is not an issue. Custody is 50/50 but daughter has pretty much moved in with us because she has HCBM figured out. I wish my kids would figure things out like she did.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago

Thank you, Tracey and to all that have supported me with responses in forums for however long this hell has been going on now. I thought this column hit a lot of things on the head. I want to make my response short. Unlikely, but here it goes:

First, the 2nd point could really be expanded. Anecdotally, it seems to me each time a CL post is more male centered (e.g., responding to a male chump letter) there’s fewer reactions and comments from CN. Maybe the site’s analytics could prove me wrong. I’d be happy to be.

Second, the 3rd point could have also been expanded. There is a lot in the literature about women with BPD – or characteristics of it – and the chaos they create (including cheating). Women are quick to find support from the narcissistic abuse they’ve suffered from a male partner (here and other places). It is difficult to find resources as a male when you’ve been abused by a woman with BPD.

Why do men not reach out more? Because we’re not believed. I was blocked on FB by someone from CN who is/was friends with my ex when I saw her here and tried to explain what happened. The way that people with BPD can create stories to make themselves the victim is a frustrating challenge.

Anyway, I just thought these two points were especially prudent and they were two of the three shortest ones in the article. In the spirit of trying to be brief, however, I’ll end here though. Thanks for letting me vent CN (again).

Baffled
Baffled
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

If you go to shrink4men.com, you will find resources about dealing with a partner who has BPD. (In the end, why they abuse doesn’t matter. Abuse is abuse. That said, dealing with someone who is on the malignant end of the BPD spectrum can be savagely difficult and wounding.)

SheChump
SheChump
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

Yesshesucks – ‘Anecdotally, it seems to me each time a CL post is more male centered (e.g., responding to a male chump letter) there’s fewer reactions and comments from CN.’

I found C/L almost 6 yrs ago so I’ve read a lot of stories.

What I have found, and continue to find is that the male-writers submitting in their stories are so rare that I’m drawn to each and every one. What woman wouldn’t want to know what the man chump must be going through – a male that actually writes down his story? Exposes himself) – I will tell you it is very rare. I’m transfixed because I know very few men will be brave emotionally step up and tell about their pain and experience. (as you’ve noticed, women are geared to let it all out)

And, I’ve probably never acknowledged one of the men’s comments! (we can’t Like comments here) because I feel I’m out of my league. I feel honored to have these men share and I don’t want to interfere.
Here we finally have a small group of men willing to share their emotions and fears and worries like we’ve never heard before. And, I sure do not want to break up this very fragile group of guys sharing their thoughts and feelings. I feel like it’s better the men talk amongst themselves, to enlighten us women, so we don’t burst into a conversation and destroy that connection.
If that makes sense?

Of course, that may be why so many men don’t respond to female posts (we gals can get a lot of chatting done) because, we are both different, of course.

The more we learn of each other’s gender, the better off we’ll be.
I’m sorry to admit that after my DDay, I didn’t think a man actually had emotions and thought as deeply and awfully as us women. I should be old enough to know better but it is reassuring to see it in print, although WE may not know what advice to offer in some male circumstances.

I’m sorry you feel men’s voices aren’t heard or acknowledged enough.
Please believe me that they are, indeed! Please keep sharing.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago
Reply to  SheChump

Heather (and others),

I don’t fault any individual for not commenting/reacting to a male centered CL post. We all have our reasons for doing so on different topics. By far, my most support has been here and I have no hard feelings with CN (sans the one person I actually know IRL, sigh …).

But, in this conversation, it does say something that yesterday’s post was basically passed by today’s post in an hour with comments/reactions. I’m not feeling unheard, but I do think this shows men have less of an audience interested in listening. Which, I think, is congruent with CL’s OP.

Chumptopia
Chumptopia
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

Shrink4men.com is a great site for guys. Explains a lot of disordered women.

Heather
Heather
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

Have to second with a reminder of how true it is that people with borderline personality disorders and narcissistic tendencies are geniuses at rewriting the story convincingly for people on the periphery. Male or female, if you didn’t cheat you can be every other kind of suck but you didn’t cheat. But if you’re a chump, you probably are a good person, taught it’s better to be quiet than to badmouth others, even your cheating spouse, especially if children are involved. When I found my husband’s online profiles on dating sites Etc. They spun a tale of his adulterous ex-wife, except for in ones where I was dead. After he moved out, he was only too happy to let anyone believe I was the bad guy, he the innocent. Only from our very closest friend, and from a sister-in-law, did I learn he was telling everyone I had ended our marriage unfairly and for my own selfish needs. And I know women who are exactly the same, only for them it’s even easier because there is an assumption with cheating that men are somehow more likely to be the bad guys. We all know that cheating goes beyond gender, orientation, affiliation, religion, and everything else except personality and basic human character. As Tracy has pointed out in her book, wanting out of a marriage is one thing. But you can’t turn around and say the marriage was over if you were cheating and working so hard to hide that fact to protect your marriage and keep your spouse from leaving you. It’s a fundamental character flaw unique to cheaters, not males or females.

Martha
Martha
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

Yesshesucks,

I never realized that there was less comments from CN when the letter of the day came from a male chump. I’m sorry if you and all the other male chumps that read here have not felt heard or supported. 🙁

Besides CL and CN. Youtube videos about narc abuse have been so helpful to me. I even watch one that is done by a divorced dad. No infidelity, but sometimes he talks about eating the shit sandwich of having to pay alimony to his lazy ass XW who doesn’t work. He was financially devastated, but is slowly getting back on his feet. Maybe his Youtube channel will be helpful to other male chumps? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUXEHz3OECVwLz1X-SNM4lw

(((HUGS))) to all the male chumps out there!

AnneG
AnneG
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

I have a daughter with BPD and can sympathize. Every boy she dated in high school and every man she dated as an adult have been devastated by her. Every time she starts dating someone new I have the urge to warn him. But I know that wouldn’t help. I just have to watch from the sidelines as she screws up another guy.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago
Reply to  AnneG

AnneG,

Love to you. I can only imagine the challenges you face as the mother of your daughter (who does deserve love and support and friendship, etc.). I hope your boundaries are appropriate (for both your sake’s) and that she gets the Tx she needs.

No Shit Cupcakes
No Shit Cupcakes
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

“It is difficult to find resources as a male when you’ve been abused by a woman with BPD.”

Try BPD411. I remember when Ozzie Tinman was writing his book about his experiences and we were reading bits and pieces of it. That was years ago but you still might find it helpful. At least you know you are NOT alone. There were a lot of us, both genders, dealing with the wreckage.

https://www.amazon.com/One-Way-Ticket-Kansas-Personality/dp/097678730X

Renay
Renay
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

Yesshesucks,

You’re absolutely right–it didn’t take long to get through the comments today. I’d never made the correlation that there are far fewer comments when chump men are the day’s focus. I’m so sorry if that makes you feel ‘less than.’

The OW in my situation walked away from a wonderful man who was an amazing father, unparalleled in being kind and generous, and a way-above-average breadwinner. He is remarried and I’ve heard his new wife is wonderful and I do hope so because he absolutely deserves the best.

Lies and unkind generalities are spread about chumps of both genders. I am glad you are here and I hope you know that we know good men do exist no matter how much nay-saying is said about our unfaithful exes.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
4 years ago
Reply to  Renay

I think people wanted to allow the men to speak.

AD
AD
4 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

@LAJ that was my assumption- let the ‘minority’ speak without white womens voice has been drummed into me over the last couple years.

Little Mighty Me
Little Mighty Me
4 years ago
Reply to  AD

Yes, this is me. I mostly lurk these days anyway, but I am less likely to comment on columns which speak to the guy chump’s experience – not because I don’t hurt for what they deal with, and not because they don’t have my support (you guys absolutely do, Guy Chumps!), but because I want to step aside and let them speak for themselves. For the record, for my Guy Chumps out there – you didn’t cause it, you didn’t deserve it, and your wives/lovers/husbands are idiots like the lot of them.

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

My XW is a covert narcissist/BPD. Most people didn’t see the abuse because I didn’t broadcast it to everyone. She knows how to manipulate people so well. Lost some best friends over it… But picked up my life and have moved on.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago
Reply to  Sirchumpalot

Agreed. My best support came from a couple/few people who realized I was being abused way before I did.

cashmere
cashmere
4 years ago
Reply to  Sirchumpalot

Son just broke up with a bipolar/borderline girlfriend after 5 years. Very rough on him, and he is not no contact, so the drama and harm continue. Definitely very few safe and welcoming places in which a man can discuss being the target of emotional abuse. Add to that the overall cultural pressure for males never to display weakness, and you end up with way too many men suffering in silence and trying to do the right thing in an impossible situation.

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago
Reply to  cashmere

It’s difficult to find support, not impossible (and my mom has provided a lot of it). I truly believe there is no pain Olympics, and I don’t want to sound like I’m minimizing, but it’s time for your son to cut his loses and find a good therapist (if he hasn’t). 5 years of dating is a better place to do so than after 14 years of marriage. I was starting to realize something was off when my ex got pregnant (married about a year, together for five). Stayed for the kids (now 4), left for the kids in the end. Again, not the pain Olympics, but hopefully no kids are involved. That’s a bigger shit sandwhich.

ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
ArtistFormerlyKnownAsChump
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

Hi Yes, thanks for this and hope yr ok today! I think the thing about point 2, that people assume men suck, is that it’s dependent on point 3, that men don’t speak out. Hopefully sites like CN will encourage male chumps to speak out and challenge the stereotype of ‘men are cheaters’, just as the stereotype of ‘she must be frigid/ a nagger’ is being challenged. Long way to go for all of us but you’re carving steps!

RatInACage 3times
RatInACage 3times
4 years ago

Thank you CL
The macho message is that tough guys don’t let themselves get abused. Admitting that you’ve been abused has a lot of negative connotations about who you are and your perceived weakness in the realm of male-dominated culture. It can be disheartening admitting to yourself that you’ve been abused, let alone telling others. This macho-aggressive indoctrination starts when we are little boys, too young to know better. So there’s a lot of BS brainwashing we need to overcome before we can open up.
‘Trusting that they suck’ and recognizing that worthy men get abused too, are some of CL’s messages that helped me lose the negative self-talk.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
4 years ago

Macho culture isn’t really what you are looking for, it’s all a part of the Patriarchy we all live in. And it is not a way to blame men to say it affects them, of course it does. Women are weak, men are strong. We are all individuals with our own personalities, falling in all the spectrums. It’s our culture that pushes men into compartments just as it does women. We have to change that culture to free men from the constraints of the Patriarchy. Feminists have been fighting a long time to change this dynamic wherein men and women operate under different rules. Men are taught to be tough, not show emotion, and such from childhood. It’s incredibly sad and it causes many men to be afraid to open up, to be vulnerable. Here we have a safe place where showing emotion is OK. You can open up here.

Robert Louis Chumpinson
Robert Louis Chumpinson
4 years ago

May I suggest that blaming “macho culture” is just another way of blame-shifting back to male victim?

Okay, so the guy held out longer in the face of infidelity, lies and gaslighting than he should have because of the idea ingrained in him by his mother and father and his culture of what it means to be a good husband and father. Is that “macho culture?”

For whatever reason, those Switzerland friends refuse to accept she did shitty things she did. So it must be his fault, right? But she did. It’s almost like there’s a refusal to grant bad women any agency for their actions…

Justbe
Justbe
4 years ago

I am a chump. Two years out from divorce. Your book and blog has been something that has helped me so much that I have shared them with others. I can’t thank you enough! You have helped me gain the insight and strength to be mighty!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
4 years ago
Reply to  Justbe

Glad you are on the mightiness path! Don’t be afraid to chime in if you see a chump who needs your insight.

BowTie
BowTie
4 years ago

Waves from the sunshine. I did live in the shadows for a long time though.

The shame – yeah it was there. People would literally cross the street to avoid me after Mme finally left but before the reasons why came out 6 months later when pictures of her and her guy were on a trip away paid for with the money from the joint savings account.

I do talk about it. “My ex-wife left me for discount priced yogurt” is a favourite joke. And yes – she did run off with the milk-man – dairy delivery guy.

The paternity test thing bothers me from time to time. I know that it bothers at least one of my kids although anyone will tell you that they are a lot like me.

I think one of the low points was the STD testing. I remember telling my then wife coldly that I was just imagining the lab tech wondering what sort of crack whore that this otherwise normal looking middle-aged guy had hooked up with.

Another thing that bothers me – and I encountered this in the RIC world. There are people who go on about Alpha and Beta men and how any man who has his partner stolen away from him is obviously weak and deserves it. There is a whole sub-culture out there about it. This also includes how screwing married women is so much safer because they won’t get clingy because they have too much to lose.

At roughly 3 1/2 years out, I’m doing OK. Still have the occasional bad day. Still try to untangle the skein from time to time. But at least I can hold my head up high.

BT

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
4 years ago
Reply to  BowTie

I’m sick of the “alpha” and “beta” stereotypes. What is an alpha male, someone who repos his wandering wife and drags her off by the hair because he won’t let someone else “steal” her? This is just another way of saying the male should dominate a woman. If the RIC pushes that, they are wandering into some very shitty victim blaming.

Spouses of either gender aren’t “stolen.” And you can’t force a disordered person to straighten up and fly right. That’s just nuts.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago
Reply to  BowTie

It’s a same that men are socially penalized for having some emotional depth and sensitivity.

Martha
Martha
4 years ago
Reply to  BowTie

Yeah, I hear you about the STD testing. It sure was fun (heavy sarcasm) going to get blood drawn to get tested for everything, including HIV. I can only imagine what the phlebotomist thought of me when she punched all the different codes into the computer.

My male chump friend was in shock when I told him I got tested for STD’s. He said, “You were in a 20 year marriage!” Yes, I was, but I have no doubt anymore that he cheated when I was pregnant and that was 15 years before I finally caught him out on a date with a newly divorced whore. Plus all the 100% naked Canadian strippers he messed around with during that time. Lord only knows what he did behind my back from 1992 to 2014.

Triumphafterterror
Triumphafterterror
4 years ago
Reply to  Martha

STD testing here as well – the OWhore had herpes and I have an auto immune disease. (I did not contract it, and my doctor cried when I told him what I was going through).
I was LIVID that not only did the Exhole cheat, he exposed my compromised immune system to herpes. When I angrily texted him about herpes, he stated that I only wanted him to say something mean to her so that I could get him to hurt her. I still think about that . . . he contracted herpes from her (he’s told my kids that, which was fun to explain to them what herpes is!) But his “bff” never told him she had it, and then gave it to him.
I know there are chumps that have contracted STD’s from their cheaters, and I’m so sorry for anyone that is dealing with that. I cannot even imagine having to add that to the shit sandwich we are already forced to eat. But him having to live with the fact that his “bff” never disclosed her STD and then gave it to him FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE gives me a chuckle every time.

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
4 years ago
Reply to  BowTie

I worked with a guy who only slept with married women because “they are easier to bed then single women”. He was just looking for sex and not commitment. And the STD testing is humiliating because I was married 24 years…

chumpupthevolume
chumpupthevolume
4 years ago
Reply to  Sirchumpalot

I hear ya. It was 27 years for me. It is humiliating, but wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. My GYN asked why I needed the tests and he didn’t even bat an eye at the answer, which I was grateful for. I guess he hears that a lot, which is sad.

The cheater’s doctor, OTOH, had an expression of disgust on her face when he had to explain needing the tests. It cheers me up just knowing that.

KarenE
KarenE
4 years ago

Yeah, my Ex and I had the same GP. I told this young doc I needed testing, and why, and that my STBX would probably also be in for testing. He held up his hand and said ‘don’t tell me his name, I want to be able to be neutral and I won’t be able to if I know who he is, because that would mean I’d know what’s done’. (We weren’t married, although living-as-married for 14 ys, so not the same last name.)

The look of disgust on that MD’s face when he said this, clearly aimed at my Ex, did me a lot of good. They may have to deal w/this all the time, but they often also still have strong opinions about right and wrong! Exposing your unsuspecting spouse to STDs definitely falls on the ‘wrong’ side.

Tall One
Tall One
4 years ago
Reply to  BowTie

Thanks for this; i feel the same about everything you shared.

kb
kb
4 years ago
Reply to  BowTie

That Alpha and Beta crap is a holdover from understandings about wolf packs. It really is crap. First, humans aren’t pack animals. We’re social, but not pack. Second, wolf packs aren’t organized around alpha and beta wolves. Wolf packs in the wild are family units. The alpha is the daddy dog while the rest are the younger wolves who’ll eventually seek their own mates and start their own family packs.

Given the above, we can see that the RIC uses the terms to abuse the poor male Chump. It’s not that his wife has cheated on him; it’s that he forced her to cheat.

I call BS.

BowTie–Your stock trades high. Caring men who want to do the right thing are wonderful. You’re a fine example to your children!

MovingOn
MovingOn
4 years ago
Reply to  kb

Agreed. Also, “alpha” connotes to me someone who is bossy, controlling, self-centered, and narcissistic. He expects others to bend to his will, and while that might be portrayed as sexy in romance novels, it’s off-putting and abusive in real life.

Sheflieswithherownwings
Sheflieswithherownwings
4 years ago
Reply to  BowTie

Oh BowTie… keep your head up. I can relate … my STBX went on trips I had always wanted to go on worth the other woman, took the kids too. Broke my heart. I was ashamed for a while too… until I realized I had done nothing wrong. You are not weak… she is. She didn’t have the courage to give you the courtesy of asking for a divorce before screwing around. I had to go through the testing as well, and I was mortified… but I told the nurse that it was because the jackass couldn’t keep it in his pants … she died laughing. Don’t be afraid to set the record straight if the situation calls for it. You can do it with grace… or try to at least . I’m sorry that you have to struggle with the paternity issue… but you seem the type that would love your children regardless.

If you haven’t done so … I’d recommend seeing a therapist … I see one and she helps me navigate the minefield that is my life and she’s been helping me untangle myself from him.

I find that in your post you have a lot of strength ..keep your head up.

MovingOn
MovingOn
4 years ago

The pain and humiliation of STD testing is part of the “romantic affair” story that never gets acknowledged or talked about. I’m sorry that you went through that; you are certainly not alone. I burst into tears in front of my long-time doctor when she asked what on earth I needed testing for. 🙁

ben dover
ben dover
4 years ago

KFirst let me say this: the stories you tell here break my heart. I don’t know how you all stay so strong in the face of the terrible shit that’s been dumped on you. I wish you the strength and courage to continue what you’re doing.

I got here by accident after reading a story about infidelity and found a link to Chump Lady.

My marriage is strong. I love my wife more than ever before, and I find her so deeply desirable that I sometimes daydream about her the way I did when we dated. She is the love of my life. Through the many years, I’ve been completely faithful, both in the flesh and the spirit.

So why am I wandering around in Chump Nation? Because this stuff absolutely scares the hell out of me. If it could happen to good people who thought their marriages were solid, it could happen to anybody. I think I’ve been extremely naive about affairs, and had no idea that it was such a widespread problem in marriages.

I’ve been trying to figure out what I would do if it happened to me. Could I handle all of this? Honestly, I think it would kill me.

I trust my wife and I know that she loves me. And this trust is vital. If she were not a good person, her work and routines would present endless opportunities to stray.

But somtimes after reading all this, I’m just like, “Who the fuck knows?” It’s really shaken my belief system.

Again, I feel deeply for all of you and appreciate how you share so openly.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago
Reply to  ben dover

I can see why it would scare you. It’s the same reason why some of my friends went to great lengths to minimize my ex’s cheating…because it forced them to cast doubt on their marriage strength. Like, if my ex, who was known to be Mr. Reliable Good Guy Super Awesome Husband could do this…what about their guy?!?

All I can say is you can’t live your life being paranoid. Your wife’s given you nothing to be worried about. I don’t think it’s a terrible idea to do a marriage check on occasion–ask your partner what, if anything, they may be missing or wanting more or less of in the marriage. Also a good idea to address red flags head on.

But, at the time my ex cheated I could have never imagined he would so such a thing. The day I found out he cheated I had literally just finished telling his mother how wonderful he’s been. BUT…I was in red-flag denial. I thought he was wonderful because my scale for wonderfulness had been so far reduced that anything above blatantly ignoring me became wonderful. Even still, I never thought he would have cheated the way he did.

QueenMother
QueenMother
4 years ago
Reply to  ben dover

Ben, yah, infidelity is horrible stuff. I don’t blame you for being scared. Here are some things you can do: 1) Think what you need to reassure you. 2) Tell your wife that you’ve been on this site and it scares you, ask her to help you with what you need (see #1). 3) Make yourself available to help other couples maintain a strong marriage, perhaps casually, as friends, counseling those who have trouble. 4) Maybe get off this site.

ben dover
ben dover
4 years ago

First let me say this: the stories you tell here break my heart. I don’t know how you all stay so strong in the face of the terrible shit that’s been dumped on you. I wish you the strength and courage to continue what you’re doing.

I got here by accident after reading a story about infidelity and found a link to Chump Lady.

My marriage is strong. I love my wife more than ever before, and I find her so deeply desirable that I sometimes daydream about her the way I did when we dated. She is the love of my life. Through the many years, I’ve been completely faithful, both in the flesh and the spirit.

So why am I wandering around in Chump Nation? Because this stuff absolutely scares the hell out of me. If it could happen to good people who thought their marriages were solid, it could happen to anybody. I think I’ve been extremely naive about affairs, and had no idea that it was such a widespread problem in marriages.

I’ve been trying to figure out what I would do if it happened to me. Could I handle all of this? Honestly, I think it would kill me.

I trust my wife and I know that she loves me. And this trust is vital. If she were not a good person, her work and routines would present endless opportunities to stray.

But somtimes after reading all this, I’m just like, “Who the fuck knows?” It’s really shaken my belief system.

Again, I feel deeply for all of you and appreciate how you share so openly.

Chumptopia
Chumptopia
4 years ago
Reply to  ben dover

Ben….I honestly believed with my whole heart that my husband would NEVER cheat on me. I actually also believed that he loved me more than I loved him because he was SO devoted to me. No one and I mean No One believed me when I told him I caught him having an affair. People actually thought I was joking as they sat waiting for the ‘punch line.’ I’ve never been so cold cocked or sucker punched in my life!! Five months prior to the affair he insisted on us renewing our wedding vows. I’ve since been single for many, many years because I do not see how it is possible to ever believe a man again.

SheChump
SheChump
4 years ago
Reply to  Chumptopia

Chumptopia – ‘Five months prior to the affair he insisted on us renewing our wedding vows.’

Chumpt, wow. As I was going through all the love notes and Valentines day cards, etc, ripping them to shreds, I found a note in a card that said on the side, ‘Let’s renew our wedding vows’

I totally do not remember that card but it would have made sense I would have chuckled a bit and thought, why would we have to do something sort of silly, in my mind. Our marriage was just fine. And, the note was forgotten.

I think he was cheating when he wrote it!! What’s with that?

Pas_the_chump
Pas_the_chump
4 years ago
Reply to  SheChump

When Mal and I had been estranged for some time (but still sharing a bed), I knew subconsciously something was up. I had started having dreams about her having sex with the mailman, but this was still years before Dday.

And my mind had started to slip … to slip into fantasies of how she and I might again share the marriage that I wanted. And somewhere in there, I had a fantasy of renewing our vows. And then this became a more durable fantasy/wish/want in my mind, a component of a larger fantasy … our many friends and family witnessing and endorsing our marriage, our intact family, our amazing children. She and I had been married at the courthouse, with our 6 mo baby as the only witness, after eating some food-truck falafel on the courthouse steps, and gone to the beach for the afternoon. So I never felt that endorsement … like my marriage was a fake or something, or not respected by my wife, my in-laws, our friends. Our coupling was never celebrated, and it didn’t seem like anyone thought worthy of celebrating.

Except me. And I wasn’t wrong.

UXworld
UXworld
4 years ago

I’ve spent a good amount of time here (and in the forums) over the past three years trying to get male chumps to come out from the shadows and find their voice. Sometimes with tales of the ongoing trials and tribulations of Kunty Kibbler and the Chlorine Special, sometimes with song parodies meant to expose cheater/narcs because (borrowing from the great Mel Brooks): Get on a soapbox against a cheater, it’s even money you’re gonna lose. But if you can make fun of them, if you can have people laugh at them, they lose a great deal of their power, and you win.

It’s been my great honor (thanks to this site) to have connected with several guy chumps in person and offered whatever support and assistance I can, and I’m convinced that a big reason why many guy chumps struggle so badly is because we’re living painful examples of two”exceptions that prove the rule.”

The first is what Tracy notes above: the societal bias that men generally suck and are naturally predisposed to act on a wandering eye (or dick). We take enormous pride in being honest, decent, attentive and supportive husbands and fathers. We are the exceptions to the rule, and we feel like we’re being punished for it.

The second is the inverse of the first: the societal bias that women are by nature and in practice the more honest, attentive and supportive gender, both in martial and parental relations. When a woman cheats, the thought goes, they are the exceptions to the rule. And we feel like we’re being punished for it.

I hope this column encourages more of us to recognize that being this kind of exception is not a weakness nor a paralyzing unfairness, but rather an affirmation of (a) the character we possess and (b) the type of man we want our sons to be and our daughters (or sons) to partner with.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
4 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

It all comes down to character. A person with a strong set of lived values won’t lie, cheat, steal, or murder. Their word means something to them. They have standards for themselves. And if they have strong values and are kind and empathetic, cheating wouldn’t even be a thought.

LezChump
LezChump
4 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

UX – thanks for your thoughts, and my heart goes out to you and all guy chumps.

I have seen evidence of your second (inverse) point, since I’m a woman married to a female Cheater. My individual therapist is fascinated by our situation, because even though he’s worked with many couples, he says he’s *never* seen a wife cheat (in his professional experience, though of course he knows it happens). Women can suck too, indeed.

KarenE
KarenE
4 years ago
Reply to  LezChump

Then he probably hasn’t done a lot of couple’s therapy, with straight or gay couples. I counsel couples, and while it is more common for a man to have cheated, and I’m guessing some men who are cheated on don’t drag their partner into counselling the way betrayed women often will, I’ve seen plenty of cases where it was the woman who cheated.

Maybe your therapist also needs the news that there can also be domestic violence in lesbian couples???

Sometimes therapists don’t hear about things, because they never ask ….

KarenE
KarenE
4 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Oh, and I also do more therapy with individuals than w/couples, and have had plenty of female cheaters come to therapy, often because they ‘can’t decide what to do’ about their cake-eating situation, or their partner has found out and it’s a crisis and they’ve promised to go to therapy. But I still often have to ASK, directly, before people admit to actually cheating.

LezChump
LezChump
4 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Interesting – thanks, KE. My individual therapist is a nice guy and very helpful in certain ways, but certainly very middle-America-suburban in his experience and outlook. I could well imagine he has never worked with a lesbian before.

RandomChump
RandomChump
4 years ago

I am a chump. Married to a serial cheater for 30 years. First D-day in 2001. Second 2007. Third 2010. Each time she would make promises and do and say all the right things to convince me she was serious about being faithful and loving only me. Her family knew. Our kids knew. Our son did not speak to his mother for a year. I thought she would see the damage she was doing and change. She couldn’t change. She refused to wear her wedding ring.

In April 2016, I got “that feeling” again. She was cold and distant. I work sporting events and she would go with me to watch the event. While there, she met a guy. He was also married but that doesn’t matter to a cheater.

I got the “I Love You But I’m Not In Love With You” speech. Verbatim actually. She packed up her stuff and moved out. I was stunned and unable to function for quite a while. I spoke to the wife of the OM. She apparently ended up in a mental health facility when her husband left. He never visited.

I held on for 2.5 years thinking she would come to her senses fueled by RIC bullshit. She didn’t. I finally agreed to the divorce in January 2019. It was final March 2019.

We have 2 adult children who do not see or speak to their mother. It’s been that way for 3 years now. My ex-wife insists she’s happy now. Without your children in your life?

It’s slowly getting better. Time and no contact. I will never let myself be treated like that again.

Out West
Out West
4 years ago
Reply to  RandomChump

Random

Big hugs.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago
Reply to  RandomChump

She may be “happy” by her warped definition. But she’s missing out on all the good stuff life has to offer. But, you’re not. What’s the point of having kids if you don’t get to enjoy them as adults?!? lol

RandomChump
RandomChump
4 years ago
Reply to  NotANiceChump

Our son graduated from college last year. His mother showed up and tried to greet him as he walked out after the ceremony. He turned and went the other way. Texted me “I don’t want her here”. I finally found him in the crowd and we took pictures together. Never saw his mother.

It’s sad. It bothers me that my kids do not have a relationship with their mother but I’ve decided I didn’t break it and I can’t fix it.

kbchump
kbchump
4 years ago
Reply to  RandomChump

My two kids are grown too, my ex wife cheated and left after 24 years..they know I’m the sane parent and choose to spend the holidays with me. I’m blessed with a grandson now who’s almost 2. I learned my ex wife and her AP rented a 2 bedroom condo at the ocean we vacationed at every damn year (he’s just stepped into my past life) and the kids told me she had been bombarding their phones wanting them to go on the trip over the July 4th holiday. They both refused. She kept at them via text so after a few too many vodka sodas I emailed her (after several years NC) and told her choices have consequences and to back the F off the kids. The next day I regretted breaking NC and realized the kids aren’t kids anymore so I should just let them handle it. I sent her a follow up email half heartedly apologizing for my previous email blah blah, that was just met with her lashing out telling me to leave her alone which is fine by me. My point is, I have the kids, the grandson, them all together on every holiday. She has her new dick. So all in all I think I won.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago
Reply to  RandomChump

Yes, that’s it. The most you can do is support them and help them deal with their feelings and mental health around their mother’s issues. I’m in a similar but lesser boat. My ex has major personality and mental problems. I can’t shield my kid from them–he has 50% custody–so I spend my efforts trying to fortify her self esteem, confidence, sense of self worth, etc., so that she will not be as susceptible to internalizing his problems as I was. But, it just sucks.

It also sucks for use–we get to miss that wonderful feeling of standing with our children’s other parent at their big moments and sharing the pride and joy of having raised them together. This is a major personal loss. One more shit sandwich to eat.

Nain
Nain
4 years ago
Reply to  RandomChump

I’m glad your children have the strength and good sense to stay away from her. It doesn’t sound like she cares so keeping her toxicity out of their lives will be a blessing.

chumpupthevolume
chumpupthevolume
4 years ago
Reply to  RandomChump

That’s horrendous and I’m sorry she did that to you. It’s amazing how forgiving you were. Mine had one long term affair and that was enough for me. No second chances to screw me over. All these stories of multiple DDs tell me I made the right decision.

ChumpTight
ChumpTight
4 years ago

I have no problem talking about what she has done to our family. It will be interesting to see how things play out. We were together 24 years and married 18. My STBXW and her boyfriend are both serial cheaters. We have 4 kids and he has 5 kids with 3 women. He has talked all the women out of going for child support. The guy is a master manipulator. Myself on the other hand am pursuing Child Support & Maintenance. She made 3 times more than I did. After I filed she immediately quit her job and went to a casual 24 hour a week job. She thinks in doing so she can avoid having to pay.
One of the hardest parts of everything has been dealing with the possibility of our 20 year old son not being mine. She was going to tell him there was a chance that I wasn’t his dad but she has decided not to tell him. Another part of it is her and her boyfriend are trying to alienate my kids from me. My 17 year old has not spoken to me since Memorial Day and has sent me texts saying I’m the one that ruined the family and I am making the kids suffer. They are trying to do the same to my 10 year old and 7 year old as well by buying them things. Both those assholes know my younger two want to live with me and that’s why they are trying so hard.
I know it sucks and not many men speak up when they are cheated on. But I’ve found that it helps to get it out there and not to keep it in. Finding this site has totally helped me over the past year. So I thank you, Tracy and CN for everything!

Sheflieswithherownwings
Sheflieswithherownwings
4 years ago
Reply to  ChumpTight

My advice … play the long game. Your children will
Come around and realize how crappy their mom is. Remain stable and loving and
Supporting ….. maybe you already do this . Hang in there .. glad you are not ashamed to speak about it. Stay strong.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago

This. Long game. Speak and live your truth. Be the safe, sane, and stable parent. Also, get ahead of traumatic news…you be the one the talk with your 20 year old about paternity. Get tested together if that’s what you both decide to do.

KarenE
KarenE
4 years ago
Reply to  NotANiceChump

And tell your kids their mom cheated … multiple times. They deserve not to be gaslighted by BOTH their parents.

Happier without her
Happier without her
4 years ago

Ex wife left after 25 years of marriage for a woman. Said if I had been more of a dick she would have come out and left sooner. I made it too comfortable ( ie good provider, husband and father). She gets all the kibbles for being brave and her true self. Could go on and on. Hardest part was lost time with the kids even with 50/50 custody. After 5 years did get to ‘meh’. We are here, we just don’t write as much as the women.

Persephone
Persephone
4 years ago

Are you British (English)? I’m asking because it appears to be peculiarly British to dump one’s boyfriend for a woman and making every effort to inform him how his sexual inadequacy drove her to become gay. I’ve got two male British friends who told me almost the same story. One said he had been dumped by then girlfriend who had left him for a woman but she had really made an effort to tell him that she had had sex with him hoping to persuade her she hadn’t been gay. But the sex with him was so awful and horrible that she had preferred to be gay and never have sex with another guy.

Such stories are just an attempt to humiliate men (a variation of ‘he made me/ drove me to do it’ blameshift) by attacking their masculinity. Don’t you think that such crap isn’t transparent. In your case, your ex doesn’t make sense. On the contrary, if you managed to keep her from being gay (her true natural orientation) for almost 3 decades, your dick must be practically magic.

Happier without her
Happier without her
4 years ago
Reply to  Persephone

Not British…She didn’t blame me for any inadequacy she blamed me for making it too easy for her to stay in denial. The narrative in these situations is unbelievably consistent. Blameshifting is prevalent gay or straight… l

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago

Ah yes, the ole “you were too soft a pillow for my weary head to land on” defense. Shame on you for being such a loving and nice guy, lol

Happier without her
Happier without her
4 years ago
Reply to  NotANiceChump

Indeed.

Been to SSN – very helpful.

Remarried now to a beautiful straight.. co parenting with the ex still a big pain in the ass tho.

No Shit Cupcakes
No Shit Cupcakes
4 years ago

Give Straight Spouse Network a try. They at least understand that this is not just yanking the rug out from under your feet, but kicking you into the closet while they get the “Aren’t you BRAVE?” parade.

“Blameshifting is prevalent gay or straight…”

Too fucking right it is!

XP-Chump
XP-Chump
4 years ago

Tracy,

Thanks for taking the time to write this column. And thanks to all the ladies here who were chumped, but can still find empathy in their hearts for us men who were chumped.

I was fortunate in that I was able to find help through my church community. Due to the public nature of my XW’s affair, I had no choice but to reach out. Thankfully, I was not castigated or looked down upon. I was able to find a good lawyer, and things have worked out in a way that I can live with, despite the fact that my life and future took a dramatic change in the course of an hour. My XW totally blindsided me with her exit affair, all while leading me to believe we were a happy family and totally in love.

Ironbutterfly
Ironbutterfly
4 years ago

I’m glad Tracy did this post. We have to support all chumps. Remember for all the men that cheated with a married woman her husband is a chump too. Thank goodness for the sane parent- male or female!

chumpupthevolume
chumpupthevolume
4 years ago
Reply to  Ironbutterfly

Agreed. I made sure to tell the chump husband of my jerk’s OW about their affair and her serial cheating. Too many people assume if a woman cheats it’s because the husband is inadequate in some way. Total bullshit.

Nicole
Nicole
4 years ago

I wish there were some database for chumped men to serve as a dating pool for me. But it would have to be verified, because I’m wary enough at this point not to trust “our marriage ended because she was cheating” on face value.

thelongrun
thelongrun
4 years ago
Reply to  Nicole

Nicole,

What would be acceptable to you for verification? I’d have no problem having a woman talk to my relatives. But I don’t know if that’s trustworthy enough for someone to go on. I’ve been thinking for a while this would be a great idea, but now you’ve punctured my balloon. It’s a good point, though.

BeardBoy
BeardBoy
4 years ago
Reply to  Nicole

No kidding. I went to a support group last night, and chumps are painfully nice, empathetic, great people who were forced to put up with a lot of bullshit and are learning how to live in a life they didn’t design.

I only want to date chumps when I’m ready — it’s a trust and shared experience thing.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago
Reply to  BeardBoy

I date a fellow chump. It’s pretty great. It’s just a daily large helping of reciprocal thoughtfulness and support. And it’s all new to me! Hard to accept it and I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. He’s someone from my past that I knew as a kid so it makes trusting him manageable, otherwise I would not be dating.

So, it’s worth holding out for. People who have been betrayed get each other in a way others don’t. And we’ve mostly been through hell so we’re super appreciative of all the little things that make someone special and great.

Best of luck!

RockStarWife
RockStarWife
4 years ago
Reply to  NotANiceChump

Some chumps are good partners. However, my last boyfriend, my now ex-husband and some of my previous partners claimed to be chumps—they may have been—and they were jerks of the worst magnitude. My last boyfriend was someone I thought was my friend for nearly thirty years before I started dating him. Now I don’t trust anyone.

Two years since my last boyfriend who I would have died for abandoned me for young work subordinate/now second wife. I recently met someone who seems quite compatible, intelligent, bit younger, attractive, and interested in me, but I plan to proceed very slowly in this relationship, which i realize will probably not progress beyond friendship. I got burned, and I learned. Ideally, this one won’t want to run away from me and repeatedly tell me so. Ideally, my parent status, career status, etc. won’t scare him off.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago
Reply to  RockStarWife

I gotta tell you, I think after all that I’d reconcile with singlehood. You’re very brave for putting yourself out their again. If this thing with my current guy fails, I’m done. And, I suspect those “chumps” you dated weren’t true chumps at all.

RockStarWife
RockStarWife
4 years ago
Reply to  NotANiceChump

Thanks for your support. NANC.

Martha
Martha
4 years ago
Reply to  Nicole

Nicole, I’m with you on this too. I’m also a little leery about a guy telling me his wife cheated on him. I was actually duped by the principal of the school I used to work at. In the staff lounge and in front of only one teacher. He told me that his XW cheated on him and he came across as the poor sad sausage/victim. The teacher overheard him talking to me. Well, this got around work very quickly. A few weeks later, one of my co-workers set the record straight. The principal was actually the one who cheated on his XW. He’s also a serial cheater. I would have to verify too, but not sure how that can be done without talking to the XW?

And yes to what others above have said above. Women suck too! I personally know of five women who cheated on their husbands. Two left for their AP’s and three are still with their husbands.

Gingerbreadman42223
Gingerbreadman42223
4 years ago
Reply to  Martha

Yeah except real male chumps don’t brag about it. It tends to be a subject filed back with childhood fears and unintentional homosexual thoughts with big bold letters “DO NOT OPEN”. A real chump won’t tell you he’s a chump for the same reason you won’t talk about menstruation flow, irritable bowel, suicidal thoughts, and your bank account on the first date: it’s a sensitive subject. I’ve remarried and my own wife doesn’t know the gory details of how I became a chump. She knows she got dumped by me for cheating and that’s it. You’re not going to get any sort of registry of chumped guys. Ever.

pasdedeux_chump
pasdedeux_chump
4 years ago

Great article Tracy and great comments above.

But you missed one: lack of reproductive choice.

I love both my children, but the fact of the matter was that my oldest was not my choice, nor an accident. My cheater was worried about her clock ticking and decided to tell me a little white lie about her cycling (backed by a degree in human reproductive biology). Me her new BF living 2000 miles away and starting a new job.

She called with the news, told me she didn’t want to get married, told me she was keeping the baby and asked for a check.

pasdedeux_chump
pasdedeux_chump
4 years ago

And yeah I know it’s a sicko men’s rights trope.

CalGal1
CalGal1
4 years ago

Then you won’t be offended when I point out to you that men CAN control their paternity. They would just prefer to not wear condoms, and keep the burden and expense of birth control on women.

In fact, more recently, studies were done on an effective contraceptive pill for the men to take. Most of the guys in the study discontinued use of it because they didn’t like how it made them feel.

With that said, I am relieved to be raising daughters and not sons.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago
Reply to  CalGal1

There is a distinct difference between a man not wearing a condom because of taste and placing the burden on the woman AND a couple mutually deciding on a BC choice, then being betrayed by lies and deceit. It’s not a black and white issue.

But I hear what you’re saying–women shouldering the burden of BC is a total pisser, and I’m glad it’s getting discussed more openly.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
4 years ago
Reply to  NotANiceChump

It’s also a foolish choice for a man to make (or refuse to make) because no one should put the burden of preventing pregnancy solely on the other party. If both parties protect, that would be near 100% effective.

Pepe Le Pew
Pepe Le Pew
4 years ago
Reply to  CalGal1

“With that said, I am relieved to be raising daughters and not sons”.

Could you elaborate on this? I don’t want to jump to the conclusion that this is misandry.
Are you relieved because you think daughters are less likely to get into sexual situations that lead to unwanted pregnancy? I’m just confused here, not accusing you of being a man hater. I have a son, and in many ways I think he’s easier than a daughter would be!

CalGal1
CalGal1
4 years ago
Reply to  Pepe Le Pew

Not a man hater. Nor do I think girls are less sexually active. I just know my daughters can get IUDs, and also keep their birth control status to themselves. Which I’ve instructed them to do so that any partner they may have is required to wear a condom. They know STD protection is as important as birth control.

The female gender has control over whether to bring conception to birth.

My comment was made to a gentleman that was duped into creating a pregnancy with a partner he trusted to not be planning to get pregnant. Therefore my comment was intended to relate specifically to the necessity and use of birth control.

Some children are easy, some are more challenging. I’m not sure it’s gender specific.

pasdedeux_chump
pasdedeux_chump
4 years ago
Reply to  CalGal1

Calgal1 I respect your opinion, but would point out that I wore condoms for most of two marriages as the primary contraception, 15 years in total bc neither wife liked how the pills made them feel. Stbx eventually got an iud, which corresponded to her starting her decade of (bareback) adultery.

And while I DO know how the birds and bees work, I have had a total of **1** unprotected, unmarried sexual encounter in my life, at my partners reassurance. Foolish to be sure, thanks for the reminder.

But equally true a deceit, with her lying and knowing exactly when she was ovulating. That resulted in a child that I was excited about and love, but which I did not choose to have.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
4 years ago

I might also add that condoms have an “unintended pregnancy rate” of 15%,
I know a women whose husband had a vasectomy and she ended up with twins.
And I know a man whose wife was on the pill and got pregnant because she took antibiotics.
And so on.
Just some factoids to chew on.

Pas_the_chump
Pas_the_chump
4 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

The failure rate on condoms is empirical, and is related to the use of damaged and expired condoms (carrying em around in your wallet? Dude.) And people ‘not using them correctly’, which means **consistently**.

Barring that chit, condoms are a very reliable means of BC.

That said, I did have a college friend have a condom ‘break’, and she did get pregnant from that.

MissBailey
MissBailey
4 years ago

The Dickhead got a vasectomy just a little over a year after we were married. He already had two children and I have never wanted to have children. That first year though, my hormones were jumpy and I often wondered if I wanted to be a mother. I was 33 to his 26. He kept convincing me that I didn’t and I was just being swayed by reality pregnant shows and other family members. Ultimately we did not have children together and I’m okay with that.

While he really did not want another child, I think the biggest reason was to have carefree sex with whoever he wanted, whenever he wanted, with no unwanted babies.

pasdedeux_chump
pasdedeux_chump
4 years ago
Reply to  MissBailey

Given that Mal got knocked up by an AP in her first marriage, I suspect she felt the same way about the IUD.

allspent
allspent
4 years ago

I definitely think men make it harder on themselves by the whole “take everything with stoicism and don’t talk about it” thing. I was fortunate to have a best friend since we were 5 years old who I knew I could go to – he and his wife ended up being my main support through a lot of this.

I got absolutely killed on number 5, since my stbxw manipulated me into moving back to her home country with her before she blew our family up with cheating, where the courts have an extreme bias toward leaving children with mothers AND an anti-foreigner bias. My lawyer made it clear – unless she was addicted to drugs or in prison, all she had to do was ask for 100% custody and she would get it. The need to appease her enough so that she didn’t take our daughter away completely added an incredible level of suckitude to an already rotten time.

But thanks to the community at CL I’ve pushed through it. Thanks for the shoutout!

CalGal1
CalGal1
4 years ago

No fault 50/50 can feel like a shit sandwich to the betrayed spouse. It IS a SUPERSIZED shit sandwich to the guy chumps (and female chumps) who have the privilege of losing homes, retirement money, bank accounts and spousal support to a cheater ex. My Ex resents every penny I received in our divorce. Not sure he realizes I could have been the one that cheated and abandoned him and our children, and he’d have had to split assets and income with me just the same.

All the guy chumps out there that are living that scenario, you have my sympathy.

Elizabeth
Elizabeth
4 years ago
Reply to  CalGal1

That’s the way it is in my state. My attorney told me that the court’s goals are to: 1. divide debt. 2. divide assets 3. equalize income for a certain period of time. In my state the lesser earning spouse is entitled to 1 year of spousal support for every 3 years of marriage (kids grown, so no child support/custody issues for me). It did not matter to the court who was the chump (me), and who was the cheater (XH).

So yeah, it is absolutely a shittier sandwich for the higher earning spouse that is also the chump.

I am absolutely sure XH believes he got a raw deal. I would trade every penny he has paid for my family to have not been blown up.

ChumpedToDumped
ChumpedToDumped
4 years ago

I forgot how embarrassing the STD testing was. I feel like the person administering the tests assumed I was the irresponsible one, the one who was cheating. This embarrassment was a close second to a severe bladder infection I had two years before DDay. My GP assumed it was because I was cheating (I wasn’t). I now wonder if this was because my XW was cheating and I caught something from her.

I wasn’t perfect by any stretch but I tried very hard to be what I thought she and our kids needed. What I’m left with now is distrust of almost everyone and a bunch of 20+ year Switzerland friends who watched me have a nervous breakdown (consoled me) and then went out for drinks with my XW and her AP 8 months later.

I’ve listened to “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life” in audio book format more than 10 times. I listen to it whenever my XW appears to be “nice” and I need a reminder of just how cruel she was when she discarded me after 20+ years together.

And yes, when we split people assumed it was I who was cheating. Insult to injury.

Thank’s Chump Lady and Chump Nation!

thelongrun
thelongrun
4 years ago

ChumpedtoDumped,

You’re saying a lot that resonates w/me. I’m glad to know I’m not the only other male chump who feels hurt when the XW tries to act nice towards me (it hurts much more than the usual crap she sends), even though it’s only in text or email (I’m practicing serious greyrock w/her. I’d go total NC if it wasn’t for the three kids. Especially our youngest, of whom we’re sharing custody).

The focus is on the word ACT, because that’s all it is w/her. My heart however, feels as if I’m hearing from the person I loved and trusted so much all those years, but my mind is pulling on it, reminding me that that person doesn’t exist anymore, if they ever did. I’ve shed serious tears writing this. That’s how much this shit still hurts. I’m pretty damn sure she’s got a personality disorder of some type, possibly covert narcissism, so I don’t believe she’s capable of truly understanding what she’s done. She did admit in the not quite two weeks she was in the house w/me after D-day but before she moved out to be w/her then boss, her twu wuv, that she thinks there’s something wrong w/her. At the time, I was playing the pick-me dance and trying hard to get her to consider reconciling. I told her I didn’t know if there was something wrong w/her, but that she was definitely “different.” I knew then that something was definitely wrong w/her; I just didn’t want to upset the possibility of reconciliation at the time. Ha! What a joke that hope was.

I’m two years and almost four months out from D-day, and almost five months out from the divorce being absolute, and her betrayal still kicks my heart’s ass. I thought she was the love of my life. Couldn’t have been more wrong. Over 25 yrs as a couple, and we were friends years before that. Almost 25 yrs married when she absolutely fucked me and our family over by having the affair w/her then boss. I listen to Queen’s “Save Me” and think, yes, that’s how it feels (I was a Queen fan from the seventies on up; I’m not just jumping on the recent bandwagon).

As for Switzerland friends, yes, I’ve been dealing w/them over the last year or so, too. My XW is a local politician, dazzling everyone w/her abilities. And the Switzerland friends don’t want to lose out on their connection to such a sparkly turd.

Well, after reading Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life, I realized what the fuck do I need them around for? If they can’t understand that what’s she’s done to me and our family is so incredibly selfish and destructive that it should not be rewarded w/friendship, then they can fuck off as far as I’m concerned.

I need true friends to support me and my kids now, not ones that are going to bop back and forth between me and my ex. One of them actually created more problems between my ex and I, because she decided she was smart enough to interpret what was being done and said by both of us in the aftermath (WRONG) and created more drama. I really don’t need more of that shit.

Another one saw her and the former boss together when they were in the middle of the affair in a supermarket playing the happy couple and could’ve told me about it so I could have confronted her sooner, but didn’t. Then told me she hoped I wouldn’t blame her, as (are you ready for the bullshit line?) “how does anyone really know what’s happening in someone else’s marriage?“

As far as I’m concerned, they’re all intellectual cowards. This woman is married longer than I was, and I wonder how she’d feel if the situation was reversed? Yeah, I doubt that ever entered her head.

I started this on the day this post came out, and the pain it caused me forced me to put it aside for a few days. So, I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I had to write it for myself if no one else. I’m very sorry you’re in a similar situation to me, ChumpedtoDumped, and I wish you and your family all the best in your struggles to survive and thrive after the shit your XW put you all through. You’ve got people like me thinking about and wishing fervently that your life will get better (all of ours, really). The sooner that happens, the happier we’ll all be. Tuesday and meh can’t come soon enough, eh?

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
4 years ago

WE BELIEVE YOU!!!

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
4 years ago

Since I have since remarried to another chump, some people think I was the one who cheated and left the XW for another woman. I am still telling people that I didn’t cause the divorce. People just assume that the man is the cheater.

OutFromTheShadows
OutFromTheShadows
4 years ago
Reply to  Sirchumpalot

Might well be your XW’s family & her network spreading lies — I’ve seen an actual example of that — I think the phrase is that if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth…?

STBXW’s sister is also a cheater (several affairs) and the marriage ended when her XH eventually found out. She got dumped by her married OM but still went out partying with other divorcees while her devastated XH (I remember how much pain he was in from one phone call) reconnected with an old college GF. They got back together and he married her a couple of years after the divorce.

Years later, his XW is done with the partying but still single and now bitter that her XH remarried. So her and her family spin the lie that it was in fact her XH who was the one having an affair with his old GF, which is why she got dumped, divorced and he’s now married to her!

But you know, by constantly repeating these lies, this family (even from the mother too!) have managed to convince others of this story (I had to correct someone about this recently). So now STBXW’s cheater sis is treated as the victim and her XH the evil one who broke up the family! I fully expect that will be me someday soon too

Involuntary Georgian
Involuntary Georgian
4 years ago

I thought I’d be really embarrassed by the STD testing, but I just told my doctor the truth (my wife has been having an affair so I need to get tested) and actually it was fine. I think it helped that I was in such deep denial that somehow it didn’t occur to me for 6 months that I needed STD tests, so I was mostly past the nonstop-confusion-and-despair stage. All this was slightly complicated by the fact that my wife and I had the same doctor, and I wanted to set the stage in case I tested positive for anything and the doctor had a duty to inform my wife about it (if anything had popped up I would have been in the strange situation of my own doctor informing my wife about an STD I’d gotten from her).

pasdedeux_chump
pasdedeux_chump
4 years ago

I too found a supportive place for STD testing. I told the two female techs doing the blood draw what went down and they were super nice. It was a rare case of my story being believed outside of CN.

Sigh.

WrecktheRIC
WrecktheRIC
4 years ago

I was never embarrassed by the std testing because even if I were the slutty one, testing is the responsible, adult thing to do.

Testing is cool, man! No one should be ashamed of taking charge of their sexual health and being safe!

Heather
Heather
4 years ago

Well here on this site, we believe you. I hope this column allows more men to talk about this cheating stuff. FWIW it is worth, I am such a chump that have been through two Std tests, done many years apart. ????‍♀️

Now I.C.
Now I.C.
4 years ago

Thank you male chumps for taking this moment to step out of the shadows with a first post, and thank you to the long time male chumps who frequently chime in. Please know that you have helped me (and I am sure others) know that not all men cheat. That there ARE decent male people in a world that gives the wink-and-nod to dudes who play around and abandon decent wives for chicks half their age. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

You are the reason so many of us wish this was also a highly vetted dating site 😉 I know it sounds like a joke but I would pay a shit ton of money to an intermediary to introduce me to a KNOWN CHUMP man, someone who has gone through a filtering process to weed out predators. Literally I would pay thousands for such an exclusive membership, kind of like ladies’ night in reverse where there the few eligible men who choose to can find a match geographically, demographically, and by interests, with a chumped lady (or chumped gay man). We certainly have a lot in common already in the chump experience. Maybe I need to start that service– invitation only, with full disclosure of histories, guaranteed to be low key and genuine rather than a tinder swipe meat market.

Alas, the universe will have to help us find each other until then.

RockStarWife
RockStarWife
4 years ago
Reply to  Now I.C.

Now I. C.,
Unfortunately, some chumps are real jerks—not people you would want to date. I believe that my last partner WAS a chump—he was also a lying, invalidating, insulting. criticizing, unloving, controlling opportunist who most people thought was the greatest thing since sliced bread. (And I thought that I knew him for 30 years before we started dating.) Infidelity is far from the only thing that hurts people. Then there are the issues of geography, age, lifestyle, etc. aside from character. I am giving up wasting time and money in a search for a partner or even a date. I wish you luck, Now I.C.

Sparrow
Sparrow
4 years ago
Reply to  Now I.C.

Yes, yes, yes. All of this. ^^ Any chance of making it happen somehow?

Laughing Gator
Laughing Gator
4 years ago
Reply to  Now I.C.

Now I.C., my wife was chumped in her first marriage but we met purely by accident waiting on our pizzas.

I will say from experience that most chumps on here are honest, trustworthy, giving people and they make great spouses. Unlike other ladies that I dated after my divorce who had never been chumped and did not really understand, my wife just “got” what I went through which helped things so much.

I hope when CL launches the new forum that there is a place where single chumps can meet and talk.

Now I.C.
Now I.C.
4 years ago
Reply to  Laughing Gator

Sounds like the universe was good to you. That gives me hope!

Involuntary Georgian
Involuntary Georgian
4 years ago
Reply to  Now I.C.

Unfortunately, since cheating really is all about them (not about us or the state of our marriage), it means that the chumped come from all kinds of marriages – good, bad, and just normal – and are all kinds of people – good, bad and just normal. Just because you were chumped doesn’t mean you were a bad spouse, but it doesn’t mean you were necessarily a good spouse either.

I suppose it’s true that we’ve been through similar experiences and maybe have some commonality of perspective. I certainly have a deep affinity with the other betrayed spouse in my particular situation. I don’t think we’d ever date but do I wish she lived within meeting-up-for-a-bottle-of-wine distance.

pasdedeux_chump
pasdedeux_chump
4 years ago

Another one: false accusations of abuse.

Both of my wives made such accusations against me, as a supercharged version of character assassination. BOth were believed widely, resulting in my near total ostracism and scorn during both chumpings (the second wife referenced the first wife’s claim as evidence).

StBX actually called the cops to start a record on me, threatened to destroy my professional career, and hired a divorce law firm that specializes in high profile abuser cases.

Fortunately there was no abuse, no evidence of abuse and she was high if she thought that would work.

RockStarWife
RockStarWife
4 years ago

PasDeDeux,
I empathize. My now ex-husband did something very similar when he left me, the loyal spouse.

Involuntary Georgian
Involuntary Georgian
4 years ago

I have reached the conclusion that there are shitty people of both genders. There’s enough variability that it doesn’t really matter whether one gender is worse or not – when you’re trying to decide how to relate to one particular person (male or female) the only reliable approach is to evaluate that one person’s character.

I admit that before this shitstorm happened to me I was prejudiced too – I figured women were just better at relationships than men. Since then, I’ve seen enough chumped men and chumped lesbians on here to understand that men are not the problem and women are not the solution: shitty people are the problem, and people with character are the solution – regardless of gender.

Sirchumpalot
Sirchumpalot
4 years ago

I have been posting for over a year. Men talk about it, but it has an extra layer of humiliation. People just assume that you were a bad husband and/or couldn’t keep your woman. Also testing your children and realizing one or more isn’t yours adds an extra layer of pain. Most courts don’t care and so makes the chump pay for another mans child.

Hopium4years
Hopium4years
4 years ago
Reply to  Sirchumpalot

Testing your kids and finding out they aren’t yours has to be “an extra layer of pain” that is off the charts. What a horrible situation. So sorry for all the chumps who’ve had to deal with this!

karenb6702
karenb6702
4 years ago

Shout out to the Male Chumps – you all Rock !

It does not matter the gender of the Chump no one will ever know the pain of betrayal until it happens to them . No one will ever know that feeling of the weak knees , the instant hit of I’m either going to be sick or have diarrhea. The feeling of the world collapsing under your very feet and you don’t have the strength to carry your own body weight . The instant WTF has just happened .

Here is where i think it differs

Women usually have a close friend / sister / mother to scream and shout at ( I only have my friends no parents or family ) . Although men may have the closeness of one of these relationships i think men think they can’t talk out for looking weak or hurt .

I am fed up to my back teeth of the ” Just Man up ” saying . I work in a male dominated environment and although my work have been brilliant with me i don’t know if a man would even admit it to the men i work with .

I think it is easier for a man to meet someone new than it is for a woman . I know if i met a male chump and he told me he was a chump i would be ” Oh you poor man what a bitch how could she treat a good man like you like that ? ” I think men go out more as well socially than women as most of the time its the woman who has been left child rearing , not getting paid child support so money is tight etc .

When women say they are chumps it often is thought well she must suck at sex / cooking / cleaning what is she crap at that her man cheated on her ? Oh your husband ran off with a girl 16 years younger than you did he ? Lucky bastard wink wink nudge nudge !

Either gender cheaters all suck and CL & CN don’t

playedlikeafiddle
playedlikeafiddle
4 years ago
Reply to  karenb6702

Agree!

JC
JC
4 years ago

The OM is also a somewhat different animal than the OW. Not in call cases. Below are my observations, based on reading this blog.

(1) An OM is less likely to contact the chump than an OW. So many male chumps have been told by their cheating wives that they are not confident/passionate/strong enough. And yet, if the OM had any real confidence/passion/strength, he’d show up at your front door to tell you that he and your wife are together. But he hasn’t done that, right? That’s because he’s a sniveling coward.

(2) The OMs are less likely to fantasize about “replacing” you. Yes, some do (my OM did). But, in a somewhat stereotypical sense, a higher proportion of OMs are in it just for the sex.

(3) Our society doesn’t call the OM a “home wrecker.” We reserve that moniker for OWs. Overall, we tend to place more blame on OWs than OMs. This may be tied to CL’s point #2. It’s not so much that the OM took her away, but that the male chump drove her to it. The OM was just some passive manly man, minding his own business, when the cheating wife made a “small mistake” because of how unhappy she was in her marriage. Overall, the OM is actually a “good guy”–the kind of guy you’d want to have a beer with.

I’m sure there’s more differences. Could be worth a blog post.

Captain Chumpy Chumperton
Captain Chumpy Chumperton
4 years ago
Reply to  JC

Bingo!!

Yesshesucks
Yesshesucks
4 years ago
Reply to  JC

This is brilliant! Maybe the OM/now BF would have shown up if he didn’t get arrested and sent to prison (again) less than two months after their night in the hotel … Been one week since ex was served a cease and desist order to keep him from communicating with our 4 boys. She hasn’t acknowledged it.

Regina
Regina
4 years ago
Reply to  Yesshesucks

Have always felt an understanding of how this is even harder for a guy. As a woman I felt judged because even my girlfriends couldn’t believe I was so crushed and confused about what to do next. My friends were used to me being super strong, and I felt they thought less of me for continuing to talk about it. This was several years before CL started her blog, and thank God she and CN helped me stop trying to untangle the skein! For guys, I can only imagine this is much, much worse. Even if you are ca guy who tells a guy, it usually would be a pat on the back and an I feel bad for you guy! Now you have exposed a weakness to another male that will likely change the subject quite quickly and make you wish you hadn’t spoken up at all. That sucks big time.
I believe cheating husbands/mates tell the truth when they are looking for a good time, not wanting an affair to “turn into anything”. (meaning commitment) They find a side piece looking for fun, excitement & supply. On the other hand, I believe that the women they court are saying they are fine with this setup to get their foot in the door, but really intend to try to win your guy over, make them change their mind about you, etc. In other words, they are less likely to reveal their true motives.
I am not sure about the reverse, but it is fairly ingrained in the female not to be giving herself away for just a happy meal-even if he does let you supersize,
Both are surely fools for outside attention or they would not fall into cheating at all.
The cheater asks how they would know if you are not also cheating? For most chumps it is as simple as because I said I wouldn’t! I don’t entertain the thought, and do not put that energy out there for cheaters to pick up on.
I believe this is why the OM’s don’t contact the AP’s husband – they don’t want the drama and they are getting what they want. The woman is more apt to be targeting the guy for something more than she agreed to. She doesn’t want to just put out, she is in it to win it no matter what she said at the start!
Also agree with someone earlier who said that no one you speak to understands this cheating pain unless it happens to them.

Chumpman
Chumpman
4 years ago

To top it all off, try explaining to people how you were abused for nearly 20 years by a female spouse. Women abusing men is another story that needs to be talked about. Emotional, psychological, verbal and physical abuse can go both ways.
You either get laughed at or told you must have enjoyed it.

Laughing Gator
Laughing Gator
4 years ago
Reply to  Chumpman

As UXWorld stated this is that Alpha, Beta male BS at work.
Not to anger anyone but the comedian Joe Rogan made a good point— if Harvey Weinstein had been Harvina and had done the same exact thing to young male actors–would anyone care ??
Why was is rightfully awful and there is outrage when a male teacher seduces a female student but “no big deal” when a female teacher seduces a male student ?

Abuse of ANYONE is wrong and should not be tolerated !!

MST3Kfan
MST3Kfan
4 years ago

Thank you Tracy for today’s column. I am a chump, but because of insights and tools I have learned here, I am a chump moving steadily down the path to M’eh. Tuesday is getting closer and closer. I have been a lurker for the last 1 1/2 years, with a few posts scattered in here and there.

My Ex told me that she had cheated on me, and I was in shock and started the pick me dance that I engaged in for over 10 months. I honestly don’t know how I avoided losing my job and my sanity during that time span. I now understand how a person can function on auto pilot. I just floated through each day, in an ocean of my own sorrow, anger, self doubt and pain. I was beyond fortunate to have a mother, and a boss who I finally told my story to (who was a chump in her own right) , and this site.

I was able to see all the bullshit that I was internalizing and taking ownership of was just that…..bullshit. The same load of crap all chumps are presented with by our cheaters. I was able to see the BPD and narcissistic traits I was unable to see or accept in my Ex.

Because of what I have learned by being a member of the CN, I have no problem sharing with friends what I had to go through to get to where I am now. I reached out to a High School classmate who I found out had been cheated on. I know she appreciated having someone else to talk to who understood.

I stopped asking myself what was wrong with me, putting a value on myself based on her behavior. I now know….I am worth being valued and some people, (including the mother of my sons), just suck! So thank you all for sharing and providing your stories, too. It’s not a stretch to say this community has saved my sanity, if not my life.

Chumplovescats
Chumplovescats
4 years ago
Reply to  MST3Kfan

You have a lot to be proud of MST3kfan. Very mighty! Also, awesome name, MST3000 is the best

Regina
Regina
4 years ago
Reply to  MST3Kfan

MST3Kfan; You rock! You sound brave and in charge and we love hearing it.

TwinsDad
TwinsDad
4 years ago

Thanks CL for writing this. As a male chump who has moved on I don’t spend as much time posting here as I used to, but felt I should add my voice to this.

Been divorced from my serial cheater since 2015. My kids are less than a year away from 18 so there is some light at the end of the tunnel. I always hoped “co-parenting” would get better but the disordered thrive on drama and need their kibbles.

When I first sought support I found the RIC and a discussion forum “Talk About Marriage”. Most folks there advised me to do the 180, recognize my part in the affairs, or some other wreckonciliation BS. There were a few, though that advised me to “man-up and kick the skank out!” The right direction, but put in abusive terms.

I did seek support that was geared specifically towards men with no success. I joined a local divorce support group that did help me as it was full mostly of fellow chumps including some men. I made some lasting friendships there and met the woman who would become my loving partner.

Thankfully I eventually found this blog and support of CN. I introduced my partner to CN (who feels the way I do about it – it saved our lives) and tried to pass it along to others in the local support group. I bought a few copied of Tracy’s first book and added it to the support group library. I no longer attend that group but hope some folks there have found CN as well.

I’d say as a male chump, I may have had some better success reaching out for support and finding it than many other male chumps. My family was also very supportive. So I’ve been lucky in that way.

I do hope we can continue to change the narrative on infidelity and expose the disordered’s narrative for what it is, another betrayal. As a lifetime member of CN, I’ll stay connected and do my part.

Babs the Chump
Babs the Chump
4 years ago
Reply to  TwinsDad

My serial cheating, hooker hIrving exhusband met his current girlfriend in divorce care support group. I call her his Divorce Care “Support” Schmoopie.

MedusainMeh
MedusainMeh
4 years ago

One of my friends is a chumped guy, and it really did a number on him. Hope all you male chumps reach the side of happiness again. This shit is not fun for any gender to deal with. Stay strong!

Mandie101
Mandie101
4 years ago

I dunno but I usually feel worse u I male chumps cause if there are kids involved the kids end up more often then not with the cheating shits.
My cheating ex had a cheating mother. She cheated with another woman. Back in the day when people were not about even pretending to accept same sex relationships.
Her husband was put out of the family home as it was on her mothers land. He moved back in with his mother. The children remained with him. He was humiliated.(how horrid could he have been that she prefers a woman over a man?!)
He would not or could not set foot in the house admns his children basically got to see him as a by the way dad. Meanwhile the mother would travel for months at a time leaving my cheater and his sister alone as young teens to supervise themselves. She would bring the woman and have her staying at the house. The two of them in the same bed. With the children there.
The whole thing created alienation. Now the father although he stayed involved is viewed as a by the way.
They don’t include him like they do cheater mum. It’s almost like he is the one paying. I hate it

Mandie101
Mandie101
4 years ago
Reply to  Mandie101

The children remained with her. Sorry.

Portia
Portia
4 years ago

I had a girlfriend in college who told me she had decided to try women, because she always seemed to pick the wrong type of man. Surprise. she picked the same type, even though they were women. The gender was not the issue. She did not fix her picker, and there are bad people in both genders.

Many female chumps on the site know just how aggressive and manipulative the OW can be. It is infuriating to a woman with a moral compass to see these women “work”, both in the dating pool and in the workplace. I am not forgiving the cooperative partners, but I believe our cultural norms do not encourage people of either gender to maintain their moral boundaries. The general interpretation seems to consider “chumps’ to be sexless, boring, predictable, etc. The RIC and society in general loves to assign blame to the injured partner, and find ways to forgive the offenders, especially if they are in positions of power and/or wealthy.

I was told (during a heated discussion) that part of the reason it was so much fun to cheat on me was because I was dependable and responsible, and intelligent. Outsmarting me was a challenge, and made the affair even sweeter. I was punished for being trusting, and for giving another chance to someone who did not deserve it. I should have known better, according to him. Really funny, right?

After living through these experiences, it is difficult to trust anyone again. Men may take a lot of heat for cheating and lying, but it takes two to tango. Women do seem to heal differently, and network differently than men do. Perhaps communication style is another boundary that needs work. I have sons, and brothers that I love. I cannot write off all men because of the actions of some men, and I hope men will give women the same chance. Our legal system is archaic, and inequity is galling. It does not have to be this way. We have to communicate and be willing to change for the better. We have to commit to the hard work of doing these things. If not, what kind of a world will we leave our children? I encourage any chump, male or female to embrace their moral belief system, and live their life in a manner which supports their values. Perhaps the future generations will watch our actions, and learn from our mistakes.

LezChump
LezChump
4 years ago

Solidarity with all you guy chumps – so glad to see you owning your stories! Even though I’m a woman, I was cheated on by a woman, so I can relate to some of what you’re saying. As UXworld said above, there’s something really perverse about being betrayed by someone of the gender with a reputation for being more emotionally attuned and compassionate. My female Cheater shows a lot of compassion for everyone but me, her spouse (I’m also a woman) of 21 years.

I agree this is not the Pain Olympics, and I’m not trying to upstage my fellow straight guy chumps. This column just got me thinking about what might be unique about being a queer chump – maybe CL can chew on that in a future column. For sure, there’s something awful about having fought so hard in recent years for marriage equality, only to be betrayed and abused by my chosen partner. All our friends and family have been shocked – Shocked! I say – by the fact that my professorial, feminist spouse could do what she has done.

And then there’s the kids, and the problem of tokenism. One of the ways to push back against disapproval of our family makeup from their friends (or really, their friends’ families) at school and other activities is to sell the narrative that “Love wins.” (For many years, we have had a rainbow lawn sign to that effect!) I have not yet had the conversation with my kids (DD8 and DD17) about what has happened, but I can imagine the devastation they will likely feel that “love no longer makes a family.” Of course, that devastation will NOT be my fault. And it’s not so far off from the sickening reality-check most kids of chump divorces have to endure. But I have no idea how my younger kid is going to explain her family make-up now: “I have two moms who used to love each other but don’t anymore.” What does that say to her and to her friends about same-sex marriage as an institution? (Again, a problem of tokenism out here in the suburbs.)

I will think about this some more, and would love to hear from other queer chumps about this question. Maybe I’ll start a thread in the discussion forum!

Back to you, guy chumps. Be mighty, find meh.

KarenE
KarenE
4 years ago
Reply to  LezChump

Your daughter needs to be able to say ‘my 2 moms got divorced because Mom X lied to Mom A, and broke a big promise they’d made to each other, to not have other girlfriends.”

Your Ex will likely gaslight your kids; don’t let that happen.