An alert chump sent me this link to a Cheating Dating Guide. And I’m sorry to say, it rather underscores everything I say at this site about ego kibbles, the pick me dance, chumps being of use to the cheater, and cheaters just really not giving a shit. Oh, and entitlement. You want a field study in entitlement? Read the stories.
Maybe your cheater didn’t use an online dating site (so many of them do). Maybe yours is a church deacon who met the fuckbuddy at church, so you think these cheaters don’t have anything in common with your cheater. In any case, I found reading the cheating stories interesting. They’re very much like the ones you read at the now defunct Drcool.com site — full of sad tales of woe about how incredibly sexy they are, and how they just don’t have an outlet for their fabulousness.
When spouses are mentioned, it’s with contempt. She’s got a cottage cheese ass. He’s got a limp dick.
The cheaters say things like: I deserve someone really hot, who gets me in bed, who wants no strings attached sex. I deserve to bang someone 25 years younger, because I still want to.
If they explain why they stay married — consider that the audience is fellow cheaters — they are very open about their Machiavellian motivations — “she’s loaded,” “she cooks and cleans.” And they’re open about their acting out of anger: “He doesn’t make me cum, so fuck him — I’m going to screw another guy in our bed.” And some of them evenly lamely try to say there’s shared history and they still “love” their spouse, it’s just that the site of her saggy breasts revolts him and he can’t get it up.
Now, I’m going to take them at face value that having a kinky, robust, multi-partnered sex life is of paramount importance. Those are their values. Okay.
I might not agree with those values, but I won’t argue them. What I want to know is if that’s so important to you — why don’t you get what you need honestly?
Let’s say instead of sex, I like money. It’s really important to me to have a LOT of money. I need a flashy car, I need security, I need people to think I’m the shit.
I could go about my need for money the hard, honest way — I could spend years studying a profession that pays well, I could sacrifice and invest in my own business and work long hours to be successful. I could save all my money and invest it in the stock market and wait years for compound interest and dividends to work their magic.
Or I could rob banks.
Or I could pretend to love someone who has the job, or family money I covet, and align myself with them.
Or I could kill someone and take their stuff.
Same value — different ways of going about it. Ethical versus unethical.
When you argue with cheaters about cheating, it often comes down to the VALUE — I need different kinds of sex. My spouse is sexless. We didn’t evolve to be monogamous. Sex and attraction are really important in a relationship and no one should live without that. And that’s the turf that cheaters want to argue on. You don’t agree? You’re a Puritan. You’re vanilla. You’re living in an out dated modality to dream that monogamy is even possible.
They don’t want to argue the MEANS of achieving their value. They just want to argue about whether their objective has value.
Yes, hot sex is great. Yes, it’s awesome to have lots of money.
You deserve a kinky, varied sex life? Then divorce the wife. Take the financial hit. Or let the same rules apply to her and see if she wants to live in an open marriage.
The arguments sputter out at that point. What?! You don’t know what that MEANS! I’ll see my kids less! People won’t have a glowing opinion of me. Or as one person on that site said:
“If I leave her, I run the risk of ending up a lonely old man. I couldn’t fathom having to spend my retirement years by myself. What the heck would an old man do without the company of a “life partner”?
My god, I’d have to GIVE UP SOMETHING TO GET SOMETHING. I’d have to delay gratification. Do without.
No, cheaters are far too special for that.
Just spent a few mindless minutes reading the stories. When I went to the gym I was “taking time away from him and still didn’t look like the woman in the ads” Would have had to grow 6 inches taller and have different genetic makeup for that. do they ever look at themselves in the mirror? God those stories reeked of entitlement. Just found out one of my co-workers cheated on her H and is now involved in an expensive divorce. All she does is complain. Can’t tell her I know her backstory ( would betray a confidence) but can’t wait for the day I can.
This is nauseating! I can’t look at those sites. Just thinking about it makes me sick to my stomach.
My ex was never good looking and he was always grossly overweight and even more so now. I was always attractive and before married, very sought after but I chose my ex because I thought he was a good man. I did gain a little weight over the years (27 yrs together in all) but I always kept myself, clean, coifed and well dressed. Once before he left me, he was dissing me over something and I said ” I have always been like that and you knew that even before we married . Why DID you marry me then?” He answered , ” because you were pretty.”
The old double standard!
Happy to report that I lost those extra pounds and am looking pretty good these days! He looks terrible and his Ow is very plain.
I really want to be loved for who I am on the inside and I always thought that’s what it’s all about! Sadly, I was wrong!
I haven’t looked, but I had to comment on your comment: “Do they ever look at themselves in the mirror?”
That’s one aspect I find so absurd about my situation and cheating in general. I know people who have been cheated on that are very attractive and successful. While I wouldn’t call myself a cover model, and I certainly don’t make millions, I think that I am attractive and successful in my field. My ex-husband? Seriously, he’s not very attractive. I looked past that and enjoyed his personality and sense of humor. But if I’m being objective– well, when he gets older, he’ll probably look like Mr. Burns from The Simpsons (minus the overly protruding teeth). He’s not muscular. He doesn’t have a handsome face. And his personality? Yeah, he was sparkly at first– until that faded away, and I saw that he was also temperamental, clingy, moody, not the best at being social outside of his personal circle of friends and family (which has narrowed considerably), and he’s very tight with money unless it’s something HE wants.
He also doesn’t make a lot of money; on the contrary, he’s only well-heeled because his parents have given him money over the years. Once that dries up, then he’s going to be in trouble if things don’t work out for him career-wise, which is very possible with his abrasive, “you’re not the boss of me” attitude. And although the money he gets right now might make him appealing to cheat with, he certainly doesn’t have ridiculous amounts that would allow him to buy a fleet of flashy cars and a giant mansion or that would keep a gold digger around for too long.
If you base the idea of cheating purely off of physical attractiveness and a personality that draws people in, I should have been the one that cheated because now that my eyes are wide open, I married beneath me. It’s clearly not about how they look or act– there are some very physically unattractive cheaters out there who aren’t doing well financially. I think that’s the stereotype, though, and that’s clearly how they see themselves– as the “hot” partner who is deserving of more– but the reality is pathetically the opposite, and what’s even more pathetic is that most of them will probably never have an epiphany and realize that all they are narcissistic and selfish.
Sorry– “is” narcissistic and selfish.
More and more Movingon, am I conscious that I married beneath me. I think he knew it and eventually just couldn’t pretend to live up to it, like he said “this relationship was always too much effort!” When I realised he was spreading lies anout his own children and confronted him on it, he came out with “at least I’ve (he’s) got someone. I prefer to think that I won’t have to scrape the bottom of the barrel like he did.
I never felt I was marrying beneath me and over the years with my encouragement and support he has done very well and is well respected in his profession. But I think over the years he came to resent that I am just smarter than he is and able to multitask and keep things in order. He is dumbing down with OW high scholl drop out who reached the level of crossing quard because her ex worked for the town!
My ex’s Ow is desperate and needy and she’d do anything to hang on to him. She is his employee and takes his orders at work and at home, haha! The kids say she is not very bright and really drinks a lot. I think the attraction for him is that for one thing she looks up to him which he probably loves and the other thing is he has total control of her and he couldn’t control me cause I had a mind of my own. I also think he felt emasculated by me because I’ve always been smart( probably smarter than him) and very capable,
Same here Moving-On, in my ‘hood, they call her the ‘Downgrade’. I thought I was partner to an equally human being, but it didn’t turn out that way.
Good article, as usual, Chump Lady. One day closer to ‘Meh’
I call mine the fat middle aged balding cabana boy 🙂 but according to him – he’s the good looking, sexy one and he deserved better…..6’4″ 350lbs is not a svelt man, balding and can’t tie shoe laces…..yes, hot and sexy….that’s what that is 🙂 I think they are all delusional
My STBX told one of my kids that he was glad that “(son) got his looks from his dad, and his brains from his mum”. Well, at least he was right about where the brains came from……
He’s gained at least 100 pounds since he left and he was never a very svelte person anyway. I’m estimating he’s at 300 pounds or so now, and at 5′ 9″ that’s pretty big. I suppose some women might find that attractive. I suppose. And he wears slip on shoes as he can’t tie his shoe laces either!
Oh, and my sons are handsome, slender, and smart. And so far they don’t seem to have gotten the narc gene(s), either, which is a blessing.
300lbs and5’9″ is morbidly obese. Seriously, that sounds like a health risk.
Assuming you aren’t a body builder, the normal range for 5’9″ is around 128-168 lbs. (depends a bit on your frame though) I am 5’9″, and I am thin at 159 lbs and definitely over-weight at 180lbs. Below 150lbs, I look anorexic. If I were 300 lbs (never–thank goodness–been anywhere near that heavy), I would be circular and have trouble climbing stairs, I expect.
TimeHeals, he is a heart attach waiting to happen. He showed up when we moved two of the kids to a new apartment for school, and it was difficult for him to bend over and pick up a small box of kitchen items – I could hear him breathing heavily into the hall. Forget stairs. At least when I have to be in his physical presence his bulk and inability to move fast means that I can be up and out of the room long before he can react. It’s one of the driving reasons I finally made the decision to get the divorce going; I saw him in the summer and was appalled, and thought to myself that I’d better get this done before he does get really sick. There is no way I am taking care of his sorry ass, and there is no way he is dying still married to me.
Now I was no lightweight after the kids were born and while we were together, but once he left I started running, yoga and cycling again, eating vegan, and lost over 70 pounds. I’m now close to the weight I was in university with a bit of more to lose. It’s amazing how much easier it was to get fit again when I didn’t have someone ridiculing me, intruding into the time I’d blocked out for myself to work out, and who insisted on stocking the house with junk food, fatty meats, and very few vegetables or fruits (potato chips being a vegetable in his world). I can cook how I like now without his constant whining, too.
I suppose his girlfriend finds him handsome, but I thank Goddess every day that I don’t live with him any more. He can still hurt me with his contempt, his unwillingness to cooperate in the divorce process, his selfishness, with the way he treats the kids, but it seems that Karma is manifesting with him physically. I’m grateful every day that I was able to choose a different path, although there are some days I have to work remind myself that I am oh-so-much better off, chump that I am.
Sigh. “Attack”, heart “attack” waiting to happen. And a “bit more to lose”.
Yes, I would like to be able to edit too….
Lack of values is the source of all things evil. When we utter the vows, some of us really mean those words, and some only keep thinking whether the photographer is getting the right angle. Everyone should be allowed to live their life as long as they are not hurting others. Sometimes I hope cheating becomes a criminal offense, since it causes so much hurt to the betrayed partners. Emotional abuse is still abuse.
“why don’t you get what you need honestly?” EXACTLY!
Except “need” should probably be in quotes.
I need food, air, water and some kind of shelter. I might need a reliable car to get to work. I don’t “need” a fleet of Lamborghinis. I might want them (I don’t), but I find that whole “need” definition is usually subject to a whole lot of equivocation with “want”, and once you distinguish between “want” and “need”, the whole facade of legitimacy dishonest people deploy to justify or rationalize their lack of concern for how their behavior might affect others becomes fairly transparent.
Very well said, TimeHeals
The disordered “need” all the bright, shiny toys because they are empty, soulless vacuums on the inside. Without bright, shiny glitter to gain the attention and admiration of everyone they meet, the disordered would feel dead, as if they didn’t even exist. That’s why they are so frantic in their never-ending quest for kibbles, the spotlight and the image of being a great person.
Yes. I agree Glad.
Mine loves expensive cars and has taken his new girlfriend on trips, etc. He cannot be alone. He cannot be with an equivalent partner. He has to be a shiny object in someone’s unfortunate life. It’s truly disordered. However, there are not enough nice vacations, cars or otherwise that would keep me with a chronic liar and cheater. No thanks. You can have that shiny turd.
I’m so glad that I’m not a cheater. I’m a lot of things, but a cheater I am not.
My father always said there are two types of people, takers and doers. I summarize this as selfish and selfless. I would like to be in a relationship with a selfless person. Cheaters are selfish. Cheaters cheat on everything in life just to feed their kibbles.
CL, I found an article which supports dumping a cheater. Most mens sites don’t tolerate cheating as much as the woman sites unfortunately.
My grandfather used to say, “There are two types of people…. No, that’s not right. There are three types of people…. No, that’s not right either. OK, there are different types of people, and some of them … “.
And mine used to say ‘there are two kinds of people in the world, those who divide the world into two kinds of people, and those who don’t’!
Love the message (especially about how your partner should be consistent), but wish I could go over it with a red pen.
Wrote mine before I saw yours, Jbaby. I was going nuts at your and you’re & waist and waste.
Good article but the poor spelling and grammar gave me an eyelid tic. #grammarnazi
They don’t want to argue the MEANS of achieving their value. They just want to argue about whether their objective has value.
Yep, they don’t want to talk about the dishonest, underhanded, manipulative, etc, etc means they resort to in order to obtain what they want.
They also often deploy the “Everybody else does it” fallacy and project their short-comings onto others (“the species is not monogamous” vs “I am not monogamous”), often while becoming openly hostile toward anybody who brings up the trauma and suffering of others.
The X is fond of saying he made one mistake, and he’s paid enough for that. One? Almost four year affair with insane neighbor, EA with his secretary years ago, generally hunting other women and leaving me sitting home alone. Oh, and no income for the last three years.
But I should just suck it up and forget the past.
Wow, the entire site reads like an advertisement, especially the cheater stories.
“Am I a “pig” because all I care about is looks? Yep, and I don’t really give a shit what anyone thinks!”
Wow, these people are about as emotionally deep as a teaspoon.
I’d say my ex had little emotional depth. He was a hard worker, and bright, scientific. He had an “extremely linear thought process.” He didn’t seem to have real empathy for anyone, although he was pretty good at faking it when he needed to.
So this was the last sentence of the article that I read on there…..
It was talking about how you are not supposed to tell anyone of your affair even your best friend because….
Even when you think you know someone, there’s always a risk they could stab you in the back. That’s just how people are. Your affair is your business and no one else’s.
I guess us chumps should’ve known…..
LOL. With no apparent sense of how ironic that statement really is or how much projection is involved.
Down the rabbit hole. I tried to read a bit there, but I found it hard to remain emotionally detached while doing it 🙁
I can’t even bring myself to visit the site, because my blood pressure is already a little high, and I don’t want to push it into stroke zone. But I can easily imagine what the stories are like, because the disordered (not all cheaters are disordered, but any cheater who would actually post his/her story on a site like that to announce and brag about it definitely IS disordered) are pretty much all the same. They reek of entitlement, they have absolutely no conscience, empathy or remorse, they are the epitomy of selfishness and immaturity and they are masters of spinning reality to make themselves look better.
The simple, easy term to sum up what disordered cheaters are is DEMON. I know in our PC times, it isn’t considered acceptable to say that not everything is caused by some sort of societal letdown; everyone is just a “victim” of circumstance. I’m not religious, but I prefer the biblical idea that some people are simply WICKED, because that’s what my life has shown me. Those cheaters on that site are wicked, and though I am not sure what happens to us when we die, I hope they BURN.
GIO, one time X took me in filthy insane OW’s den, I mean house, when she was out of town. I FELT an evil presense, I had to run out of there. A demon, a destructive aura? Whatever it was, I had chills for a week over that, it was so strong and real.
I found those stories helpful.
They let me know what a cheater really, really thinks. I didn’t realise there was so much secret contempt involved.
Now his disdainful unloving behaviour makes sense. Because no person properly wired would think like that.
Mine always said it was unfair I was successful when he had the designation….he continually called his current AP a white trash cow, she didn’t deserve her partnership, she should learn how to dress – and the insults go on and on.
I found that they are always the victim, it’s all about them and how life is unfair, how much contempt they have for anyone they consider more successful than themselves or have something they think they deserve (ok – they think they deserve it all, but you know) 🙂
Wow, this article seems custom-written for my ex! We were never married, but had a child together. The first time I know of that he cheated on me was when I was sill in the hospital, after having given birth to his daughter. We struggled along for a year or so, till I found hard evidence that he was still cheating, (and with more than one affair partner!) A couple of years after our daughter was born, he called out of the blue and asked me out. We had dinner and drinks, and wound up in his hotel room. (He’d been in town for a medical conference; he is a successful doctor.) All evening long, he’d been making noises about how I’m the only woman he’s ever loved, he’d made a big mistake in leaving me, could we try again, blah blah blah…
Well, I was a broke single mom, working a shitty job, and very lonely. It hit me how wonderful it could be for our daughter to have her parents together, and by now, I was married and divorced from someone else, and had a small son. I had just been accepted into law school, and all of a sudden, I saw this bright, shining future, with two married, professional parents, and more babies and happiness, and all that jazz.
Then after he’d gotten the sex he craved constantly, he told me, “I really invited you out to tell you, I’ve met someone who has her shit together better than you have. She’s already a lawyer and has no kids or baggage. I think I am going to ask her to marry me.”
I could not get out of that hotel room quickly enough, and I ceased contact with him for a very long time, only occasionally being in touch for things regarding our daughter, (whom he cared for very little when she was a baby and child. Now that she’s a self-supporting adult, he’s Father of The Century.)
About ten years ago, he decided it was his mission in life to win me back. I had since remarried, and it’s not the greatest, so I will admit, I was flattered by all his flattering emails and the occasional phone call “in regards to our daughter”, which invariably turned into pleas for us to get together for sex. My current husband is an alcoholic who has fucked me over financially, destroyed my credit, (the man loses jobs like I lose odd socks), and humiliated me, but I decided a long time ago I as staying with him till our son was graduated from high school & in college, and that is still a few years away. The usual advice is that it’s rarely a great idea to stay together for the sake of the kids, but it’s the right choice for me. Anyway, I am still working on rebuilding my financial security and that’s a couple years away from being realized; there is no possible way I could currently live on my own and support my child, but I *am* working on that.
(Sorry this is getting so long! I do have a point; I promise!) Yeah, so, I told him to lay off, and showed my husband some of the emails and text messages I’d received from daughter’s dad. He came unglued, and sent the ex a loving little email of his own. However, this man has no shame, no fear, and it didn’t stop him from pursuing me. I did a little web sleuthing, and discovered, to nobody’s shock, that the ex has a veritable harem of affair partners. His wife has her issues, but she’s a good person who does not deserve that shit. He was notified, by both my husband and me, that we’d be informing her if the attempts continued. For the past year or so, his communiques have been polite, general, and mostly pertaining to our daughter. Problem solved?
Not so fast! Through my daughter, I recently found out that he has left his wife, and is seeking custody of their teenaged children. My daughter asked me, “Mom, dad says you are the only woman he has ever really loved, and wants to know if you ever think about him.” Um, no. No I don’t. Not in that way. Even if he followed through with divorcing his wife, and offered me complete financial security, the price I’d have to pay would be knowing that I was being cheated on. Some days, I actually think I could live with that, if it meant not having to worry about money, or retirement, and the peace of not being married to a mean drunk. But then I regain my sanity and realize that that is no way to live. I can do it on my own.
So anyway, knowing what I know about his cheater habits, I would not be surprised if he has read and memorized those tips on how not to get caught. He’s a cheater extraordinaire, and the biggest sex fiend I have yet to meet. Part of me wonders if she finally caught him, or if maybe she has known for years, but decided once and for all that she’s had enough. She deserves some happiness, and I hope she finds some, either alone or with a decent man.
As for me,I will bide my time till the youngest is squared away, and will continue to work on the financial rebuilding,but I won’t cheat and I won’t ever be with a cheater.
“Then after he’d gotten the sex he craved constantly, he told me, “I really invited you out to tell you, I’ve met someone who has her shit together better than you have. She’s already a lawyer and has no kids or baggage. I think I am going to ask her to marry me.””
WOW, this is one of the worst things I’ve read here! What a sociopath! Please, please block this dangerous man from your life in every way possible.
GladIt’sOver, he is a horrible person! Rich, brilliant, dashingly good-looking, successful, and the most self-involved man I have ever known. We have an amazing daughter who is doing wonderful things with her life,and I always say that she and his two younger kids, by the current wife, are the only three decent things he’s ever done. I realize that even though she is an adult now,she might still harbor the dream of having her parents together, and to my disgust, he uses her to get to me. (Tries to,anyway. I maintain a very neutral attitude about him to her.)
No way no how would I ever get back with him. My current marriage has made me realize that I would be happiest alone. And, once the kiddo is in college and my finances are better, I will have that option.I still hold out a little hope that my husband will see the light & work with me on having a better marriage, but he’d have to do some hard work. (So would I.I am by no means blameless as far as our problems go. The difference is,I am introspective enough to know this.)
Lavinia, don’t laugh, but go to al anon. It has helped so much with detaching, with not feeding into the drama. About calming the panic, and choosing to think before reacting. About focussing on yourself.
I don’t quite know how it does it, but it is darn near miraculous.
“My current marriage has made me realize that I would be happiest alone.”
This is something I have been struggling with ever since I was dumped by my XW 6 months ago. Once the divorce becomes official in a month I will be responsible for child support for my 3 kids for about the next 16 years until my youngest turns 18. So I’ll be busting my butt for the foreseeable future to make sure the kids are OK. I don’t believe it would be fair (if I did meet someone, I’m nowhere near in dating shape) to subject a second wife to such a financial responsibility. And what if a second marriage doesn’t work out? Would I then have to pay alimony on top of child support? Those prospects are awfully scary to me. But then again, 16 years puts me close to my mid-50’s (I’m 37), that’s an awfully long time to be by myself .
I probably shouldn’t be thinking about this stuff right now, but have any chumps had to deal with these things too?
Is there a term…..narcissistic sociopath or sociopathic narcissist? Sheesh! I am guessing some of those gems are out and out lies. Many years ago guys wrote in to magazines like Penthouse and it appeared some were made up. I wonder just how many stds those lovely folks are spreading around. BTW I think the fact that humans get fatal diseases from screwing around goes a long way in negating that damn monogamy myth shit.
This made me laugh, dark humor… After I got my protective order and ex moved in with his OW/GF, my PI found he had signed up for Ashley Madison and he took a trip to visit a very expensive prostitute who was disguised as an “intense weekend therapy guide”. I guess he learned his lesson from me that he would loose his comfortable home and financial security if he didn’t do a better job of hiding his cheating. Apparently these sites point is that if you cheat you should do it with someone who is also cheating, that way you are both invested in hiding it.
…he met the OW (now GF) on classmates.com, she was single, never married, and yeah she got emotionally attached, her emails and cards called him her “soul mate”. That term makes me gag even without the cheating. But the OW never outed him, she was apparently fine with sharing him – why not? She got the good from him while I was being shit on. When he moved in she learned who he really was, but even after he attacked her she took him back so apparently she believes in redemption. Good for her.
Fucking a-hole STBX just tried (again) to reneg on the financials in the divorce agreement that is almost settled. Vomit.
Just had to say that.
Oh, and by now? “well, it’s partly your fault”. Me: “How is you sticking your dick in other people my fault? that’s what’s led to this.”
“But the marriage was not great before then.” Me: “and you did exactly what to improve it? Nothing. You lied, and started an affair while we were in MC.”
NONE of this is my fault. NONE of it.
Jeeesus, where do they get this book, and can I please burn down the printing presses?
Fellow chumps, hold me up…. he threw this handy grenade just before leaving for a long weekend/work trip. oy-fucking-vey.
oh, and I live in a no-fault state, with very unfriendly-to-sahm-legislation for spousal support. yeah, that. I gave up my career for this a-hole. what an idiot.
please do whatever it is you do to chill, hot bath? fire crackling? something to relax you – yeah he’s fucking with you, still trying to control you – but it won’t work. Recognize that your STBX is all about control, he keeps fucking with you on the settlement because he doesn’t want to loose that last bit of control and they like the drama. Don’t let it get to you, you are on the last lap and soon it will be over (jedi hugs) Named for Vera, it will be over soon, the peace will come.
Named for Vera, you are not an idiot for giving up your career because you thought he’d take care of you– you are a normal person who went into your marriage trusting that you could believe what he said, including about major things, like “I’ll support us while you’re home raising our kiddos.” That turned out not to be true, but you had no way of knowing that. Just like it’s also not true that he cheated because the marriage was bad, making it partly your fault. He cheated because he decided not to be faithful to you. Just like he agreed to the finances and is now backing out. Clearly this is a guy who isn’t particularly worried about meaning what he says. Please don’t torment yourself by wondering whether his BS is partially true– you have all the evidence you need that he has no problem twisting truth.
I’m sitting in solidarity with you on this, btw. I’m not a sahm, but my husband is the same way about meaning/keeping his word. It’s maddening.
Finally, I for one am glad your STBX is gone for the long weekend. Now you have three days of peace, away from his distortions. Please don’t spend them pondering whether he’s right about your share of the blame. I can answer that now: he’s not! He had ten better options for addressing your marital problems. He DECIDED to cheat and now he’s coming up with a reason why. WTFever. You deserve better!
Vera, I am in the same sitch. Gave up career so ex could really focus on his, he said he’d take care of me, he lied. I’m fucked. Perhaps we can join forces and make some money. 🙂
Me, Three, (I am a fellow grammar fascist, Nord).
Named for Vera, he is just fucking with you. Cruelly, yes. It takes practice and time, it has taken a year to get to the one email per month. And I hear you about needing to focus on your career, but being unable to-in my case, though we (DD and I) are offski in a few weeks- no job lined up, YET! The issues in the article above speak to that point: it is easier sometimes to be your old, manipulable self. Idiots don’t post to blogs where other intelligent people share thoughts about common issues.
The article really struck a chord. It ain’t what you do, it is the way that you do it. WORD.
It will take longer for us to get our careers on track, due to perhaps still being trapped in the Unicorn Forest near the Eternal Spackle Springs, but our futures will be the better for being earned by ourselves, in the right way, with the right intentions. That’s Chumpdom (also Buddhism). And it has to be that way, I have a kid. Need to be a role model, for myself as well as her.
Everyone’s shit sandwich is their own- and if we compromised our careers for family or love, nothing ignoble has been done, quite the opposite. Being deceived and betrayed is not a crime, Vera, but the price is high.
Either I am gonna land my dream job, or knit one up for myself. And if I live on ramen and hope, so be it, because this little piggy is building her next house of bricks, and has a lot of anger to fuel the process.
It is maddening, but as PiL sang in ‘Rise’ Anger is an energy. Use it for you.
With you in spirit.
PiL! Rise! Nice one, Mehphista. May the road rise with you! 🙂
OMG, take me back in time. Saw them live…ages ago…with a previous to STBX BF (also neurotic!) … lousy picker, me… Gonna take some time time to fix that. Now, if only I knew how. hmm.
Named for Vera, I am yet another who gave up my career to put mine through law school, then became a stay at home mom. Keep your head up and fight courageously. I wish you better luck than me–over 20 years of marriage, no alimony, no house. I do have my kids for the majority of the time, though. I guess I have no where to go but up, right?
Only way is up. I have been packing and annoying the neighbours with more PiL, Sex Pistols and The Who!!!, Clears out the pipes.
If you google similar subject, like “how to” of cheating, thousands of sites come up. Scary. What’s this new world we live in?
Isn’t the solution simple? Cheaters leave their partners and hook up with cheaters who also leave their partners. They then form a secret organization, and then can cheat among themselves. Nah, probably not exciting enough for them.
That’s pretty much what my ex has done, now. The OW hit on him knowing he was married, and she ‘understands’ his cheating on me because her marriage ended due to her having an EA (or at least that’s what she admits to). Now the ex is trying to cheat on her w/me – at least, because knowing him, he’s probably already cheating on her w/somebody else, since he’s back in our city, far from her, can’t stand to be alone, and hasn’t had any luck w/me.
They all deserve each other.
What is up with their inability to be alone? I used to tease my STBX that he couldn’t handle being by himself. It’s sad! And I consider it a weakness. I’m perfectly happy spending time by myself.
My ex could never bear to be alone, even for short times. At one point during our marriage, I went back to school to get a degree. I had class every Monday night for two years. Ex did not stay home alone ONE SINGLE MONDAY NIGHT that entire time. He made plans every single week. Heck, looking back now, he probably used those nights to go to gay bathhouses.
THIS is another red flag. Everyone should be able to spend some time with their own thoughts . What are they afraid of?
Yep, I think that if mine got stranded on and deserted island with no electronics he’d probably explode. I’m sorry but I don’t think it’s normal to be 40 with a family and need to go out more than once a week. It was always to the same place too with the same group of people. I can’t wait for that day when ex realizes that he’s never going to date a decent girl because none of them are going to want to spend all of their free time out at a dive bar listening to the same people sing the same songs over and over again at Karaoke.
But yes, I would think after the failure of a serious relationship a person would want to take at least some time alone to figure stuff out. Nope, gotta fill that void with contact after contact with women. It’s really scary.
It seems likely that the linked cheater guide is an ad put together by a bunch of affiliated cheater websites. All of the cheaters’ success stories have the same absurd writing style, with suspiciously placed (and laughably clunky) references to cheater websites. “Why should I stay at home with my 45 year old toll of a wife when I can find a hot little honey on XXXm*tch.com?” “I was wasting my life with my husband who can’t satisfy my kinky needs, until I found my sexual soulmate on AdultFri*ndFnder.com” Please.
Even if it’s fake, the website is depressing, because it’s just one more indication of the sameness of cheaters’ justifications. It’s pathetic that cheating women and men share such a predictable sense of angry entitlement that a commercial website can manipulate them with this “I deserve to fuck someone worthy of me!” script. But I really do believe that’s how our cheaters feel. Sure, when they talk about it out loud, they say they’re in love, they have to follow their heart, they deserve happiness and have to do this for themselves, etc. But underneath that socially palatable gloss (which is another rant in and of itself), the truth is that they feel like they’re missing out by being faithful, and they honestly believe they’re entitled to have more fun than they’re getting at home, to get laid by someone they view as more exciting, and to assert their superiority over us by causing us emotional torment. Sick.
After reading the above-referenced site – I’m convinced that it is crap – every post sounded the same to me. I know there are sick shits out there and I hope there is a very special STD with their name on it.
As stated….the more I get to know people, the more I like my dog…
he more I get to know people, the more I like my dog…
I LOVE THAT LINE!!!!
Kim, just want you to know I am stealing and using it – and I don’t even have a dog! Maybe I’ll modify it a bit to say, “The more I get to know people, the more I like Kim’s dog.” 🙂
Yep, one of the dogs that I’m living with right now eats shit. But he’s still a hell of a lot more appealing than my POS cheating ex. Love IS a dog. I was spending the night at my sister’s the other night and her mini pin was curled up on my legs and I had a border collie and sheltie at my feet. I was warm and drowsy and I said “It doesn’t get any better than this”. Low expectations I know but I’ll take it.
I wasn’t going to comment on the Cheating Dating Site except to say “WTF! How old are these morons?!” because, really, idiocy exhausts me. Then I realized even though I view people as moronic pig-faced aliens from hell who rationalize their vile, unscrupulous, selfish, self-absorbed behavior in this manner, there are contributors to the Huffington Post and Slate (to name a couple) and pseudo-therapists who attempt to provide cover to these shit-covered jackasses and their behavior.
Not having conducted an empirical study, I cannot say where most cheaters fall on the narcissistic continuum, but after reading the tales of woe on infidelity websites, commiserating with my fellow Chumps and reading some of the rationales provided by cheaters themselves, I will posit that the vast majority of cheaters have some type of moderate to severe character disorder. How else to explain the mental gymnastics that it takes to justify and defend the indefensible? What other way to make any sense of the I-want-it-so-I-shall-have-it-it’s-your-fault-and-fuck-you attitude of so many cheaters? What else could sustain such a massive sense of entitlement?
Whether those stories were made up and written by one skeevy guy in a basement back room somewhere or submitted by the people actually engaged in the behavior is irrelevant. We are all living testimony to the fact that people actually think, behave and live this way. I just wish there was some way they could be indelibly marked so that caring and compassionate people who want a mature, reciprocal, mutually satisfying relationship could steer well clear of these ego-centric middle-schoolers in adult bodies.
I am really a peaceful, non-violent person, but seriously, I’m thinking someone should institute a Cheater Firing Squad. Anyone caught cheating can, on the order of the offended spouse, be shot, or at the very least, hog-tied and whipped in the pubic square.
AHEM!!! That should have read “pubLic” square! 🙂
LOL, Chump Princess. Freudian slip?
In the Old Testament they were to be publicly stoned to death. But noooo! That’s not Christian. I thought about converting to Jewish. Then theirs the constitution to deal with. Thats why we move on. 🙂
Plus I think that stoning thing seemed to unfairly and lopsidedly directed at the women cheaters.
“BE” directed at women.
I need a proof-reader!!!
I like public shaming, myself. Tar and feathers? The stocks? Because being SEEN for what they really are would be the most devastating for the narc cheaters, and would protect other potential chumps in the vicinity.
Maybe forehead tattoos? That way even moving away wouldn’t get them their sparkle back ….
I’ve been saying for years we need to bring back the stocks. Whenever I read the news, I find people who deserve to spend some time in the public square having rotten tomatoes hurled at their faces. As for cheaters, good old-fashioned biblical stoning would be appropriate.
I don’t want to hurt anybody or even humiliate them as part of a vendetta. I pretty much draw the line at sanctioning outright aggression 🙂
That being said, I don’t think we’re in any way obligated to help maintain the facade some people want everybody to see. I think the measuring stick has to be… am I doing what I am doing out of malice or hatred? And if so, isn’t that taking up a lot of time I could use enjoying things and being happy instead?
What they did (over and over often) sucks. They may go on sucking as so many do.
At some point there has to be a “So why am I letting them ruin my peace of mind now?” moment, right?
I’m not saying don’t get angry; if people mistreat you, you are going to get angry … unless there is something wrong with you.
Use that anger as an inspiration to change something, though. Anger wants to destroy a problem. Divorce worked perfectly fine in accomplishing that goal for me, anyway. Problem solved. She probably still sucks, but it’s not my problem. She has a Somebody Else’s Problem Field (and about 500 miles) surrounding her. She’s invisible. What lingers in my head are just ghosts I breathe life into.
Forehead tatoos would work for me – maybe a big “L” for Loser? That way at least everyone would be warned, and the cheaters could find each other easier and leave the chumps alone………
Perhaps we go back to the scarlet letter. Maybe they were on to something?
This belongs on another post but since this the latest…..on Annie’s Mailbox on Arca is another chump. Two years after finding about her husband’s affair she is still in pain. Can one of you access this advice column and tell her to come on over?
went to the site and read some of it. sounds like one writer pretending to be different posters trying to get his 5 mins in the limelight. i’d rather come here as the cheaters we write about have the same operating manual too. this site has advice, support, damn good feedback so that we all learn from each other. by being here I was able to predict what my ex was going to do and what shit would come out of his mouth. other than a stay hard, keeping on f###ing and stick to the spouse ( flippantly said) thats about all the advice I saw on the other. I tell anyone I can about CL as nowhere on the internet or in person does anyone tell me like it truly is.
Wow, those stories are sickening & gave me anxiety! I should have stopped reading! Sometimes fear that there is only crap out there like these people, and sex is so easy to find that it means nothing. A lot of the kids these days just “hook up” to get their needs met, and don’t want real commitment. It seems this is the way the new world of relationships is unfolding.
Have to admit I wonder where the world is going. Glad CL found a great guy, it is great to hear. I am 58 & spent decades in this. Don’t think he had done it before, but as has been stated, after all the lying and deception, it can never be the same.
Mephista, sometimes I cannot get the music loud enough to make the rest go away. Wife did what she did. Planned it out for over a year I discovered. Told me about the affair after all the money put into her new separate accounts. Honestly do not care about that pd skank. I do care about my son, but I do not get to be with him because skank has created her own reality. Lawyers love it. Pariah at my kid’s school for no reason. I need the energy of anger, but am worn out after seven months battling. Who knew that such crazy wickedness existed; thought it was only in movies.
Coolest cover I have heard live: Hoodoo Gurus doing God Save the Queen, Brisbane Australia, 1989. Thought the show was over and then …!
Holy shit! My favourite was the woman who wanted a threesome, but had a husband who, even though he fund the suggested third hot, declined. Utter contempt from the cheating wife. “He’s probably the only male alive that wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to have sex with his wife and another woman.” Well, no. he’s not. Do you have to carry out every idle fantasy you have, no matter how emotionally harmful? I guess these people do.
My ex had a threesome with the two married women he was having affairs with, and also had a threesome with one of the women and another married man (not her husband.) When I found out about this after dday, his defense was that “it was every man’s fantasy” and “other guys really didn’t see anything that wrong” with what my ex had done. I have to say that really threw me for a loop, and contributed to my mistrust and fear of men for a long time afterwards. I still sometimes wonder if ex was right, and most men would take the opportunity if they could. I hope not. I prefer to think that although many — or even most — men might FANTASIZE about such a thing, they wouldn’t ACT on those fantasies even if opportunity knocked.
Of course they wouldn’t. Because most men have at least a semblance of impulse control. People who feel they have to do everything they’ve ever fantasized about have serious problems. Unfortunately, society has been telling people they SHOULD do everything they’ve fantasized about for quite a while now.
At the risk of over-sharing, I have indeed fantasized about this. But I would not want my fantasy to come true, any more than I would REALLY want to hook up with a 19 year old, or … well, I’ll stop. You get the idea.
Thanks, ANR. The wonderful guy chumps on this board give me hope that not all men are like my ex. Well, I’m not sure anyone else could be quite like my ex, but you get what I’m saying (I hope). 😉
Isn’t it funny how we seem to marry for “personality” and divorce because of “character”?
How true Gypsy57! Hahahaha! Personality – character = wildcard!
I checked out the site and I wanted to just puke! Talk about pompous, self-centered, idiots with an outrageous sense of entitlement! Good lord! Hard to believe people so obsessed with sexual neediness exist! I believe in a reasonably healthy sex drive, but these folks are over the top! And the justification for staying married tells me they are so self serving! Only worried as about a loss of money or someone else to clean and cook! There is hopefully a warmer place in Hell for these. Duplicitous assholes! And it was pretty obvious that they didn’t care to have a big discussion with their spouses! So much more fun if they do this in secret! That helps them really get off! Sickening!