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Dear Chump Lady, He has a “seasonal disorder”

rowDear Chump Lady,

I have a huge dilemma that I sure could use your guidance on (and CN).

I just received an email this morning from cheaters new “almost” wife. She was not the OW, but this is her email to me:

Ms. [Chump known as IHaveHate],

I’ve been wanting to get in touch with you for quite a while, but I was apprehensive that it might sound odd and of a very poor taste of me….and I must admit that it is. However, I’m trying to help someone that you once knew, and I’m trying to gather any information that could help in making sense of some symptoms, of lack of better terms, and the concerning things that his family had to say about him.

Also, It would be dishonest of me to claim doing this for selfless reasons. We’re about to set a wedding date and I’m a little fearful, to be honest. I am so sorry for the rudeness of contacting you, out of the blue, about someone that you probably don’t want to hear about, but [his son] told me that you were a very sweet lady, so I figured that you wouldn’t mind giving me some much needed insight. I can guarantee you that he does not, will not know about any possible correspondences, should you decide to follow up.

In order to prove that I’m a real person, please find, Below, a link to one of the announcements that [Cheater] put on the newspaper:

(link to engagement and imminent wedding announcement)

The only reason for attaching the link is that, from checking his records, there must be quite a few women that are a “little” angry at him, so I didn’t want you to think that I’m coming to you with bad intentions towards him. I just want to help him, and at the same time, making sure that I’m not entering a marriage with someone that is not who he pretends to be. However, my first motif remains helping a person that I’m getting ready to share my life with through whatever sort of seasonal disorder this is, so that he can go back to the stable man that I met a few months ago. It’s even starting to affect his productivity at work.

Again, I apologize, and I would perfectly understand it if you do not want to communicate. This attempt is a little too brave on my part.

I hope you have a good day!

[Her name]

Dear IHaveHate,

I think this one falls under the category of “Do you warn the next one?” But here’s the thing — she asked your opinion. Which is quite different than going all Paul Revere and shouting alarms about the next cheater invasion. She’s seen the horizon, feels a sense of dread, and is asking you what you know.

Tell her. She asked.

Is this not practicing meh? Yes. Is that getting in his business? Yes. But she asked you. You have absolutely no control over how she will react to what you tell her. (It sounds like she’s dead set on “saving” him.) I wouldn’t expect her to keep it confidential either. But it’s your truth. Feel free to speak it.

I think the Golden Rule wins out here. She wants to know if she’s in danger. All you can do is share your experience and see if she connects the dots to her own situation.

Now then, the rest of this reply goes out to the Bride to Be.

Dear BTB,

Please bitchslap yourself. When “quite a few women” are angry at your boyfriend, when you feel compelled to reach out to his exes to check his story, when his OWN FAMILY WARNS YOU ABOUT HIM — trust that he sucks.

He’s not just sucking on pure reputation — you’re reporting “symptoms” that concern you. They should. You have a lot riding on this — the rest of your life.

… my first motif remains helping a person that I’m getting ready to share my life with through whatever sort of seasonal disorder this is, so that he can go back to the stable man that I met a few months ago.

a) Don’t marry someone you just met “a few months ago.” (Wedding announcement in the newspaper? WTF?!) You need a least a year for the impression management to wear off. You’re being love bombed. He’s trying to seal the deal before you find out who he really is.

You think I’m being rash in my judgments? Why don’t you extend the wedding date a year or two and see how his character plays out then? Tell me about his “stability” in 2018.

b) Assholes don’t have “seasonal disorders” — they’re assholes winter, spring, summer, and fall. He’s a cheater, not someone suffering from hay fever.

c) Don’t try to “save” him. Grown-ups don’t need saving. The only person who needs saving here is YOU. Save yourself from settling for this reclamation project. Save yourself from a lifetime of distrust, drama, and STDs. Don’t marry a serial cheater.

Get out NOW. Don’t be a chump.

If you ignore this? Glad you found us. We’ll be here when you need us.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I would tell if nicely asked and it was not the whore he left me for. I would tell her you would be nuts to marry him because the guy you are seeing right now is who he really is, and not some only seasonal crap. Why am I angry at him? He’s a liar and a cheater and will never change. Run away as fast as you can!!!!

    • Yep, agree that I would only tell if she wasn’t the OW. No sympathy or empathy for that one. She deserves everything that is going to happen to her. The ex treats her like garbage. I love it. They are set to marry next month since, well, since she got herself accidentally on purpose pregnant. She wanted the ring so badly and knew that would secure it. My friends and I laugh at them and think she’s the stupidest woman on the planet. He deserves bat shit crazy OW, and she deserves the man that told her one day at a party, “shut the fuck up, I’m talking”. I never feel bad for OW, ever. They signed up for it and they can live with the consequences of being with men who have shit for morals. She’s not special, she’s just stupid, and it’s awesome.

  • Working at getting over her use of the word “motif”… it is causing pity to well in me.

    Anyway…yes it is along the lines of “should l I warn her?” but CL got right to the meat:


    I would tell the truth in a way that didn’t sound like I was the same “bat shit crazy” that they claim us all to be.

    And please indulge me in the fantasy of what it might have been like to have been asked this question by anyone that deadH might have courted had God not removed him from the face of the Earth. “Well Susan, that anger thing he may have mentioned, it isn’t caused by me, it wells up deep within him and comes out as white hot emotionally violent rage…you may want to steel yourself for it”.

        • Her use of ‘motif’ could be cultural/indicate English as second language….the XBF was Nicaraguan and he always used the word ‘motif’ when he meant ‘motive’ either spoken or written. Additionally, other ways in which she expressed herself were very similar to how he did.

          I agree that warning her that he’s a cheating worthless prick would be fair….

    • Unicornnomore – ‘Motif’ gave me a wry smile too! I instantly thought she needs one of WordPress’s auto-generated little blobs like the rest of us Chumps (who aren’t computer savvy enough to put our own avatars in) – certainly, poor girl is a Chump in birthing!

  • The first thing that strikes me is that she didn’t ask you anything. The field is too broad. It smells like trap to me, Luke.

    I don’t know if you have any custody/support concerns on your end, but treading lightly may be in order. That doesn’t mean I don’t agree with CL, but consider caution.

    One idea: tell her that if she has specific questions, she should go ahead and ask them, and you will answer what you reasonably can, short-term, but you don’t plan to keep in touch over the long haul as an ongoing thing. He is in your past, and you’d prefer it stay that way. Then you could also offer something very generic and non-emotional, like: “I was able to clearly verify that he cheated with X Y and Z, that he openly lied about it on multiple occasions, and that after apologizing and sobbingly swearing he would never do it again, he did it two more times.” Or whatever the story is. No details that could get you in trouble, just rational facts. Then, something like “I am not interested in attempting to help him further. If you want to take that risk, though inadvisable from my POV, that is your choice, and I hope what I have shared is helpful for you as you choose.”

    Just ideas, morph or toss as you see fit. 🙂

    • My take was that BTB was too afraid to just ask “is he a cheater?” She’s speaking in euphemisms of “symptoms,” and “affecting his productivity at work,” and people are warning her.

      I like your intermediate step of offering to answer specific questions.

      I’d stick to the facts and leave off the insults. As you say, the temptation will be to write off BTB as batshit crazy.

      After my D-Day, I spoke with ex-wife #2 and she was very compassionate and filled in a lot of blanks. It opened my eyes, and I’m grateful to her. Her demeanor and generosity in speaking to me canceled out all the hateful propaganda I’d been fed about her. JMHO.

    • I agree with you! I had to read it through twice. The second time, I read it through ChumpGoggles. Those are what chumps have strapped to their heads before they’re hit by that Chump Nation clue-by-4, sending those ChumpGoggles smashing to the floor.

      She’s asking for history, and I deduce through the cloud of vagueness that she’s asking for history on his mental health and any previous changes in the state of his mental health — based on some kind of odd/poor behaviour lately. His family seem to know about this odd/poor behaviour and have probably decided among themselves that they quite approve of the diagnosis of Seasonal Affective Disorder, which just sounds like the poor guy only needs a bit of sun and then he’ll be alright again. Which also fits the time of year. Conveniently enough, it also fits the situation — it means she can’t possibly expect any improvement on his SAD behaviour until AFTER the wedding. She doesn’t seem convinced by that tale. Quite right, too.

      She wants to ask if he had a health, or mental health, issue in the past. And if so, what were the symptoms. What were the treatments. How extensive were the treatments, and how effective. He and his family aren’t providing adequate answers to why he’s doing whatever he’s doing (and the mind boggles to think what it might be).

      So many commenters here have mentioned how they honestly thought their cheating spouse had a brain tumour, their behavioural changes were so acute and bizarre. Or drug abuse problems. Or schizophrenia, depression, cognitive difficulties, or any number of health issues. That may be what she’s thinking, because ChumpGoggles. Naturally, none of us expected the behaviour simply to be that of a common, garden-variety sociopath/narcissist with a pervasive and non-treatable personality disorder.

      • Totally agree! She’s experiencing her first devalue phase of the Lovebomb, Devalue, Discard cycle.
        It could look like seasonal affective disorder if you didn’t know any better.
        OP please save this woman. She wasn’t the OW, throw her a lifeline.

    • Perhaps IHH should give her the numbers of all the OW? It won’t do a bit of good for BTB, but she can monkeywrench her X’s shit like a motherfucker. IHH isn’t going to destroy her Meh. She’s going to get cold-served revenge like Arnold’s always awaiting.

      Do it for the Chumps IHaveHate!

    • You could be onto something.

      Firstly, I think it’s really odd that she feels a need to prove she’s a real person / that they are in a relationship. Why would she do that? But if we’re going there… what does an engagement notice in a newspaper prove? It proves neither that she’s a real person, nor that they are in a relationship. Anyone can pay to have a notice put in the paper. Smells fishy to me.

      Secondly, the timeframes don’t add up. Who marries someone they just met a few months ago? At least, if you were going to marry someone you barely knew, you’d be a bit embarrassed to admit that to a total stranger. Also, they met a few months ago, getting married, yet she’s been meaning to “get in touch for quite some time”. No, there’s something very off here.

    • I am there with you on the jaded part. There are some weird things in this letter that make it seem oddly written. It for some reason reminded me of when the gun nuts out there decide they are going to murder someone for shits and giggles they regurgitate this very specific language that supposedly allows you to claim you were standing your ground or are a sovereign citizen or whatever. I feel like the language in this letter is constructed in such a clumsy way that something seems off. Runaway… it’s a trap was my first thought as well.

      But sure – as others have suggested, say that you will meet her in person for 30 minutes for coffee or whatever if she would like. Certainly don’t put anything in writing and I would be careful to even talk on the phone… going with the assumption of the abusive, narc, exH, it seem possible that he could be manipulating her trying to reinforce the “My exW is a crazy bitch narrative”.

      • CAGal……I think the language stuff has to do with her ethnicity. I think English is not her first language, though she is a linguistics professor; guess not in English. Beats me (shrug)

        The only email I’ve sent is the trust your gut one, nothing more. (thanks to my friend or I would have spilled a lot more).

  • If you are sure its legit I would tell her but first really think how this will affect your life if “darling boy” hears of you sabotaging his latest twu luv.
    If it will make your own life worse I would be inclined to just write a reply along the lines of ” I can only recommend you do not marry someone many people have reservations about, including you, including me”

  • Maybe tell her I tried to help his disordered self but his priorities included multiple sex partners with unsafe sex and not being faithful or honest with his spouse. All this to no avail. That is whyour I divorced him so beware the demons that lurk inside. He let’s them out!

    • Love that Kar Marie!!!! ‘Beware the demons inside…he let’s them out’

      You guys are on a roll today!!! Thank you! I can’t stop laughin!!!

      🙂 I needed to!!! Thank you!!!

      • Glad you enjoyed it. I can kinda laugh about them now since I no longer have to deal with these demons. The ho does and there are some nasty ones asswipe lets out. My daughter has seen these first hand throighout her life but never like he us now and she keeps her distance and no longer walks eggshells around him. Any future dates if I ever have any i will be on the lookout for angry demons festering under the surface. How quick they are to anger and about what and why will be a sure tell. I exorcised my own demons long long ago. Only demon I have left is my chump demon and she’s always watching to kick those other demons asses! My chump demon is a good demon!

        • It cracks me up Kar marie cause, once a brain tumor was ruled out I thought, ‘Shit! I need an exorcists for satan!’

          (rollin on the floor NOW laughin!!!!)

      • The pod is in serious need of professional help and he knows it. But he will never get the help he needs. Far more fun to fuck people over!

  • A COPY/Paste of CL’s “Dear BTB” letter might save you a lot of personal keystrokes. How could it be made more clear than that? As usual, CL nailed it perfectly.

      • I’m going down the line here and reading all the replies……THANKS EVERYONE!! Anyway, I am considering giving this link to her but not really sure, especially once I read that she emailed me back today and sounds like she’s gonna go through with it. Kind of a c’est la vie moment for me.

        Btw, I know how many thousands of emails CL gets and I never dreamed she would answer let alone this quickly! Thanks CL…..and I already emailed her back yesterday.

        This is what I said:
        No need to apologize for your email; I understand you’re trying to protect yourself.

        I’ll leave you with this simple yet great advice that I received from a therapist I saw to get through this tsunami……he said if I left his office and never returned, the best recommendation he would want me to take from our session would be……..always trust your gut. It’s never wrong.

        I have since rec’d an email back from her… ya go:
        Thanks for your response, my name. I find it quite admirable that you summed up your experience in one sentence and refrained from saying anything derogatory or negative. You have my respect!

        It might sound odd, but I think that my fiancé was a fool for leaving you!
        I found out the truth through other channels, since All what his name recalls is that “all his exes were crazy or cheaters”…

        I hope that you understand that I’m not venting or talking bad about him. I’m just trying to find answers. If I didn’t love him I wouldn’t make the effort to help him, and try to find out what is wrong with him, instead of just leaving him; which I did before, until he agreed to give up the Amphetamines. I guess that some tough love is what he needed to get rid of that legal poison. I refuse to say yes to a man that acts like a squirrel on caffeine in the mornings, and an overly emotional clingy mess when the meds wear off by an evening. Despite the rough withdrawals, quitting made a huge difference.

        HOWEVER, the several warnings that I’ve gotten from several people about horrible things he’s done such as cheating and lying are frankly terrifying, and that’s why I gathered my courage and wrote to you.
        I just really hope that what he’s done in his past relationships was because of his meds, and won’t happen a few years down the road, when the almost infatuation that he has for me now turns into boredom after marriage or if I get fat or whatever.

        I very much appreciate your demeanor, my name. You rock, girl! Nice talking to you!

        • I have hate, the end of her email tells you she knows how it’s going to end anyway. He gets bored, she gets fat. He’s on drugs. That is enough to end a relationship right there.

          She has problems of her own, in my opinion. But you can never save anyone else, so it will have to play out how it plays out.

        • Wow, that bride to be needs some serious therapy, but apparently will have to learn the hard way like so many of us here. She admits to being “terrified” by all the bad stuff she’s heard about her fiance, but is going through with it anyway. She mentions him needing “meds,” well, anyone who needs meds just to keep from being a monster isn’t exactly marriage material. She writes about how the infatuation will wear off and he will become bored with her.

          She already sees the writing on the wall, and knows he is going to hurt her and leave her devastated, but for whatever reason, she’s going through with it anyway. Sad. She will eventually be here, worse for the wear.

            • Yes, cause it’s going to be dark where she’s going.

              She’s making the mistake of thinking that all he needs is her live and understanding. That her love will save him.

              You can’t tell people anything. One of those lessons you have to learn the hard way. Sad.

              • Yep use us up and spit us out a discard when no longer useful. Amazing the egos on these fuckers. Like they are so damn special and above everyone else to hurt and disrespect others who love them. They are not special. Pods all of them.

          • “anyone who needs meds just to keep from being a monster isn’t exactly marriage material.”

            God, I wish someone had told me that years ago!!!

        • Wow. All those warnings and she’s going to marry him anyway. More evidence that people rarely follow good advice.

          • You know. When they say we are crazy I think they mean only a crazy person would put up with their shit like we did. And there is not a person I would have put up with that shit from but I did from him all the while trying to get him to see how ridiculous he was being. Doh. Definition of insanity. Doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results. That was us.

        • Definite Hopium smoking going on there IHaveHate. Telling her to trust her gut is the best advice you could’ve given her without actually saying anything derogatory about your ex. You did your best.

          It sounds like she’s going to do it the hard way; much like the rest of us.

          • Yep. This is why we can’t beat ourselves up that we didn’t listen to family or friends or heed the warning signs with our own Cheaters. It’s just not human nature to listen. It’s almost like we all have a physiological flaw that says we have to learn by experience, because we won’t heed people’s well meaning advice ahead of the problems.

        • She’s a hopeless cause. You tried…. She thinks it’s the drugs causing the symptoms. She will learn the hard way.

          • Yep. Hopeless she is. Asswipes whore is stupid to think he won’t cheat on her he has and he will continue her supposedly being perfect (barf!) Will not stop a disordered fuck wad into not cheating. She too us an asshole. Asswipe only cares about two things his slong and her money.

        • Oh Dear. I feel so sorry for her, but as others say, you can’t help those who can’t help themselves. That girl should really delay the wedding for a year.

        • Well now she just sounds like a hot mess to me. In the last ‘few months’ she discovered his addiction, left him once, came back, helped him through his addiction, checked his records, got engaged to him, and is now vetting him through his exes. I guess the upshot is she hasn’t had time to get bored or fat.

        • I love this post. Because it is a very timely reminder that THEY DON’T CHANGE. If you want any validation that it isn’t different with the new woman or that his issues were related to you, this letter clears that up in a heartbeat.

          We really do need to trust that they suck.

        • “If I didn’t love him I wouldn’t make the effort to help him, and try to find out what is wrong with him, instead of just leaving him; which I did before, until he agreed to give up the Amphetamines.”

          Ladies and Gentleman . . . a perfect example of settling for a bucket of shit when there are definitely other more worthy candidates out there to spend time with. Why on earth would anyone stay with a speed freak a couple months in? And she’s “left” already. And for someone who doesn’t want to talk a lot of shit about him, she sure talks a lot of shit about him. Oh the drama.

          Girlfriend needs a therapist just as much as he does. I absolutely would not get involved with that. You gave her your advice, leave it be. She seems like the type that’ll be reaching out more in the future, and who needs that?!

        • I don’t think this woman needs therapy, I think she’s never dealt with a cheating narcissist and doesn’t understand how to categorize him. That’s what happened to me. I didn’t need therapy, I just needed to understand that my ex actually sucked. Please tell her it’s not the meds. Please tell her that serial cheaters don’t stop cheating, they just cycle through partners. Please tell her that she already knows the answer and needs to trust herself enough to stick to her guns.

          • Yes, she sounds very young and inexperienced .. making a lot of wrong assumptions about her beau. Give her credit for trying to nail down what’s going on, though.

        • Kudos IHaveHate. Your response back to her is excellent. You do “rock”. Now to practice NC or “Not my circus, Not my monkeys” zen approach to get back to ‘meh’.

        • IHaveHate – Something does not add up about this letter to you, and her answer afterwards. This feels way too weird to engage with beyond what you have already done (which was short and informative enough).

          If you have kids with your X, I would suggest that you do NOT send his future wife a link to CL! This would be a direct link to your username and he could retrace your whole comment history, and who knows, potentially get you in trouble in future court proceedings.

          On second thought, even if you don’t have kids with your X, preserving your ability to post on CL/CN seems more important to me than pacifying someone who intends to marry a proven raging cheater… (REALLY!!??)

          Don’t share your username with the disordered (and their future spouse) = PUT YOURSELF FIRST :)!

        • Hey, she knows exactly who he is but decides to believe otherwise. He’s a cheater? Oh, it must be the meds. Good grief. You can’t regulate stupid.

          • Exactly. Plus I don’t remember ever seeing in the long list if side effects “May cause infidelity.”

        • Wow. You done good with that answer. And her response…. Genuinely and truly… Not your circus not your monkeys. She is wearing two or three pairs of chump goggles. Poor gal. She will get here in her own time.

      • I never wanted to share this here because I was too embarrassed to, I contacted my STBXH EX-wife before I married him over 26 years ago to do the same thing as the this BTB because some things were bothering me about him. It was a phone call that I did and all she said to me was “He’s a good guy over all, BUT, you don’t want to be his wife”.. That’s all she was willing to tell me ugh. Now I know! I should have pushed harder for more info, doubt I would have believed her though because of the way STBXH called her down and so did his family! They all called her a “Bitch”, I turned into one btw after I found out about his cheating on me. It does that to us woman.

        • No need to be embarrassed Kate50. I believed ‘The Great I Am’ when he insisted I was special, so not sure I’d have been ‘warned off’ (though when it went batshit crazy the warning would have validated my experience). You weren’t given much information to be going on with – in fact, you weren’t given ANY information to be going on with!

        • Timidly raises hand here. My X admitted to me he was a serial cheater with his former wife, and I STILL married him (admittedly, without the knowledge I have of narcissism & serial cheaters today). Plus, I believed his “reasons” for cheating (including that he got her permission, lol) and since those reasons didn’t apply to me, it couldn’t happen.

          Still wishing for that time machine so I could go back and slap the bejeezus out of my younger self, and make her r.u.n.

          • Asswipe told whore juice he cheated in every single relationship he ever had and most likely would cheat on her too and he has many times with many partners something he neglected to tell me thirty years ago. Whore juice knows he’s a cheater he was married to me while screwing her. Me, I’m out and done, she is by far a bigger fool than i. She will know about his cheating after I’m safely hours away. I’ve got pictures!!!!! I hope his life blows up in his face and may the great slong forever point down and shrink!

          • ‘The Great I Am’ told me he cheated on his last long -term relationship (17 years / two children) – he also displayed a really horrible attitude towards his ex that bothered me from the start. Of course, I believed he wouldn’t treat me like that because ‘I was special’. Trouble is, I viewed life from my own perspective and I’d never met anyone – honestly – anyone like him before. I figure if I was to meet someone today – they’d certainly say I had a really horrible attitude towards my ex – LOL 😀 – so, you know, I kinda spackled with ‘we all make mistakes’ and rationale that goes ‘well, my ex is a complete fruitloop batshit crazy loony tunes’. I think it’s the same rationale that gets us all to spackle over red flags.

            • …. mind you, I’ve got very good memories of my exes, and I tell everyone (because I mean it) that they’d really like my first husband, it just didn’t work out for us. It’s only ‘The Great I Am’ I’d describe as batshit crazy, loony tunes’ – I can’t see my narrative on that changing much!

          • Oh boy Tempest! satan said that to me…that ‘I told him to go to other women’!!! I said, ‘What?’

            …they are all the same!

          • Mine did admit to cheating in previous relationships, but used his best poor sausage routine to convince me that it was because he was young, and that he learned from his mistakes, etc.

            I believed him, and well, when a decade after we wed I found out about his affair and started learning more about Cluster Bs, I now know that to him “learning from my mistakes” likely means “I’ll hide better next time.”

            I’m grateful every day that I live at a time and in a country where women can divorce their disordered spouse!

          • I was told by him that he had been a jerk when he was “a young asshole” (his words) and had rotated through girls with no regard for their feelings. He would just suddenly drop them and move on.

            I was troubled by this admission, but I gave him great credit for being so open about it and alluding to it with what I thought was some shame. It wasn’t. It was really just rueful pride. He was proud of having been such a player…

            I thought that the sobering difficulties life had brought him had matured him and given him a new respect and appreciation for people. That must have been him mirroring my values. I was wanting to believe he was a good egg. I wanted to admire him. And because I had witnessed him doing some really admirable things, I assumed that he had good character.

            He wants to be thought of that way. He just doesn’t want to pay the price to actually be that person. Because his ego is out of control.

            Now I know that he cheated on every woman who ever loved him.

        • No need to feel ashamed Kate50. There were many crimson red flags waving in front of me before I walked down the aisle with the ex. I chalk up my major mistake up to being married before my pre-frontal cortex was finished forming but my immature brain can’t take all the credit.

          My mother warned me about the overwhelming sense of entitlement that emanated from the ex’s every pore and that his entire family was basically the same way. You’re never smarter than when you’re 20 years old though right? I knew it all and I was going to prove everyone wrong.

          He love bombed me, was extremely possessive, went into jealous rages for no reason and accused me several times throughout our marriage of cheating on him. There were all kinds of signs but I ignored all of them until I couldn’t anymore.

          It’s a tough life lesson but one we don’t tend to learn unless we live through it.

  • She seems like a typical chump-to-be: wanting to marry a guy after being love bombed for a few months, wanting to believe his narrative despite all the red flags and thinking she can save him! She also seems nice and respectful and desperate to get your version. So if I were you, IHH, I would meet with her personally and tell her your story and let her ask all the questions she wants so she can see how she is not special, just another future chump. Don´t write your answer to her…anything in writing can be misinterpreted or she can show it to cheater and there might be a reaction from him to you because you may be ruining his new cake. Things change when you meet people in person. Your instinct will also tell you how much she needs your help…you may be saving a life here!

    I envy you because my daughters are going through cheater´s new girlfriend (not OW) living with him after only two months of meeting her. She is unemployed and with a biological clock ticking so she is falling quickly. I wish I could warn her, but she is in the beginning of love-bombing and seems to have found the dream man who is offering her everything…SO my role is only to protect my daughters, but it would be awesome to be able to save someone from suffering through chumpdom!

  • There’s something about her tone. She apologizes throughout the entire letter, and is set to marry someone she met a few months ago. She strikes me as someone with very low self-esteem, total narc bait. But she knows something is up. She “checked his records” and found several women angry at him? I think she already knows the answer, she just needs someone to confirm it. I would tell her, In a matter of fact way, and spare her the future pain.

  • I would so tell her. We were in her position once, trying so hard not to hear that distant bell, spackling like crazy so as not to have to listen to our own gut instincts. I would have been so grateful if someone had stepped in and saved me from him stealing 20 odd years of my life. If I could save some innocent woman or man from feeling like I feel, I would do it in a heartbeat.

  • “..the stable man that I met a few months ago.”

    How does she know he was stable a few months ago?! What, did she surmise that from the oh-so-accurate impression on their first date?!

  • “Trust your gut and the reservations of those most closely around you. You may find some answers on Me, “the nice lady” am out of the picture with no wish to anger a lion in his den. My divorce from ________ after “X” years and ____ children speaks volumes. Godspeed.”

  • I don’t know . . . it smells hinky to me. Let me get this straight . . . This woman is marrying someone she met a couple months ago. She’s actually reaching out to the X wife for verification of what? Symptoms of a Seasonal Disorder? Actually I’m baffled that a grown women can’t even come out and ask the fucking question. She had enough balls to email, but the email says nothing.

    “The only reason for attaching the link is that, from checking his records, there must be quite a few women that are a “little” angry at him, so I didn’t want you to think that I’m coming to you with bad intentions towards him.”

    Come again? What the fuck does that even mean? **And hooray you’re already “checking his records” after a couple months. Way to go.

    To me, the email is all sorts of weird. I’d pull the reigns back a bit and email her and say, “What exactly are you asking me?” Have her come out and say it. She’s a grown ass woman. Quit with the hemming and hawing and apologies and ask the fucking question. Jesus. If she can stop wringing her hands long enough to ask the question, give her whatever info you’d like and then back out of it. Honestly . . . I think it’s all kinds of bizarre.

    • Rumblekitty, I totally agree with you. What got me was when she slipped in ‘his son’. Very manipulative in a covert way. I would so stay away from this regardless of the content. I would put nothing in writing.
      Hey, these assholes are going to have a lifetime of OW. Are we really signing up to forever be in their life through the women they are involved with? I’m passing on this. Don’t care.

    • LOL, “wringing her hands.” The cryptic read young and unsophisticated. I gave up looking for the season. Should have scrolled down to CL’S BTB response “He doesn’t have hayfever” first. I don’t know about forwarding the link to her. Given the way she tiptoed around the subject, I’m seeing an attack of the vapors. IHH handled it beautifully.

      I’m still shaky from last week’s “Out of the Fog,” the remorse from chump’s X. I failed miserably, and it’s still in my head. I was all in, until CL’s response. Now, no kidding, I couldn’t form an opinion about BTB’s letter. I feel like I’m going backward.

  • CL, I’ve been following your site and posts for several months. Today you said something that just resonated throughout me and will stay with me for a long time: ” Grown-ups don’t need saving.” When I tried to save someone, I got hurt. When I try to save someone, I need saving. Grown-ups don’t need saving. Being on either side of the “saving” relationship should be such a huge red flag, set off sirens and light off fireworks that spell out “STOP. PROCEED NO FURTHER.”

    • Grown ups don’t need saving! Perfect words. That is how I feel about my 30 year old son. I tried, Lord knows I’ve tired with him but I gave up its up to him now, he was raised better than how he acts but in many respects, just like his asshole father. And now daddy is going to try to teach him to be a real man. At thirty! All of us need saving from pods like the two of them. Both father and son have fucked up every relationship they have ever had and both of them are cheating on their now girlfriends. Some people just don’t appreciate what’s in front of them and these two never will. This father counseling this son on life is the blind leading the blind. And nothing will save these two pods. I love my snow but I keep my distance he has a very low opinion of women and has hit me and his sister in anger and the old dad would have gone after him for his disrespect. New and unimproved dad shrugs his shoulders and looks away. Nope grownups do not need saving.

    • Yep. No more fixer-uppers for me either. It’s surely a huge red flag.. with a skull and cross bones on it. There’s a difference between loving some with flaws (leaving clothes on the floor, slurps a drink a bit too loudly) and loving someone who has a checkered social history especially when it comes to relationships.

      One of the things I didn’t pick up on at the time, was when her closest friend said to me, “She’s a better person when she’s with you.” It’s so obvious now.

      • Me, too, Michael. All of my X’s extended family thought I was good for him, and exactly what he needed to corral his arrogance. Facepalm.

        • This is the message I got right from the beginning from his family, and it continued for 22 years! Yes, we forgot to explain to you that he was kicked out of college and has been seeing a psychiatrist for some pretty serious problems. But now that you’re married, you can keep him in line. Some men just need the right woman to keep them on the straight and narrow! Said this about his drug addicted, alcoholic brother too! I should have run away much earlier, but I thought he would just collapse into a helpless puddle on the floor without me. Nope, that didn’t happen. So now I’m at fault because I didn’t “fix” him. Not a role I’d ever want to play again!

        • Also I think they tend to emulate whoever they are with, whether it’s a spouse, friend, co-worker. At first they seem like a good match but later they just prove what an empty vessel they really are. No real emotions except for anger. No empathy. No bonds. I guess if I was like that I would be pissed as well. Not sure what someone like that lives for.

          • Very true in my experience as well Michael… And let’s add hypocrisy, surreal levels of hypocrisy and childish levels of impatience to the list. Immediate gratification was not fast enough for my ex POS.

          • “I guess if I was like that I would be pissed as well. Not sure what someone like that lives for.”

            Michael, you have a good point. Isn’t it sad? The emptiness!

    • Of course, let me be the first to point out — we’re trying to “save” BTB from her own stupidity.

      But she asked. So, IMO, it’s okay to answer. But I’d leave it there. Answer (if she forms a question) and let go of the outcome.

      • Don’t fool yourself Chumplady, you are out there saving grownups everyday, you are just doing it through your website. Sometimes you can save someone by serving as a wake-up call. When the building is on fire, and someone says,”Excuse me is it getting hot in here?” you can freaking yell,”fire!”

      • I’m hoping my email back to her (above) was ok enough. I don’t plan on responding to the 2nd without those direct questions.
        Sounds to me like she’s doing it anyway (marriage) despite tons of red flags and info given to her. But I get that too……I was a chump too with good potential to be one again if I don’t follow this site!
        Down the line when/if I hear again from her again with ‘the party’s over’ sentiment then I’ll refer her right here!

        • IHaveHate, I’m glad you wrote back to her. She reached out to you because she’s desperate for validation for all the red flags flying in her face (but I know she’s also hoping SOMEONE will talk her down from her concerns — that is, anyone other than her BF/your Ex with all his lying excuses/deflections). Your good reputation (in contract to your ex’s HORRIBLE one) allowed her to seek your counsel.

          My sense is that she is sincere (so timid-polite – hence the vague/PC language she used) and very, very inexperienced about relationships and disordered people. That makes her the perfect target for predator-personality types. I’m also guessing she may have money (from family, perhaps .. wedding announcement in society section?) so your ex not only would get her kind concerns in wanting to help him with his “problems” but also a way to finance his addictions, future mistresses/hookers, and spotty employment.

          Here’s hoping she may still ditch him in time, even if it’s at the alter as that would be much better than going on to start a family (my concern for the children .. they have NO choice in this!) and wasting years of her life and health for a less-than-nothing user.

    • Thanks so much juslex; you’ve just helped me make a very important decision. Can’t tell you how much I appreciate the help.

  • When I was about 18, I became involved with my second relationship with a sociopath/ psychopath. One day, we were at the gas station, and a girl buying gas there flipped him a bird. His explanation? She was a “crazy ex”, and he also said she or her parents, I forget, had filed Statutory Rape charges after they broke up. He’d only been 18 a few months so looking back that’s suspicious in itself. Even though he was my second pathological liar, I still believed him. Stupid much????

  • Tell her. You have no reason to protect this jerk’s reputation anymore. Ask if she would like to chat, and meet up with her at a coffee shop or something. You need to be realistic and don’t expect her to dump him immediately–remember when you were in the exact same place? Remember how you disregarded the red flags? Unfortunately most of us chumps have to learn things the hard way. You don’t tell her so you can “save” her, you tell her so that inevitably when the other shoe drops in a year or five years or whatever, and she allows herself to understand who he really is, she’ll have that “oh noooo” moment and realize she was just the next mark. Having the knowledge of what you told her in your head will help her to go “Okay I was naive and thought it would be different for me, but this is clearly the exact same thing you did to IHaveHate.” And to end it much sooner and without all the RIC crap. You can’t stop her from jumping into the pit, but you can plant seeds to grow a vine she can crawl out on.

    • That’s perfect chump-tastic. It’s clear that BTB is smoking hard on the hopium pipe, but God … BTDT bought the t-shirt. When it all went Jonathan Swift/Lewis Carroll on me it would have saved me from a lot of anguish had I known this was who he was, and he had a pattern. I see the pattern now, but it was a very ‘Grand Unmasking’ and it fucked with my head no end! I’d spare any chump that experience!

  • Heed the concerns about slander-bait. Speak the hard facts and leave off the editorials, but do speak. If you get squeamish, imagine an innocent and faithful person sitting in the doctor’s office getting an STD diagnosis. Speak.

    Over the past few months since D-day I’ve scoured my memories of the last 14 years with this dude, trying to figure out how I could’ve missed it. (The evidence was EVERYWHERE. Everywhere.)

    I realized recently that one friend in all that time warned me straight up. She didn’t have hard evidence so I wrote her off – after all, she was just one person and it was such an absurd idea. Surely she was just concerned about me while we were going through a rough patch. She was misguided, no me!

    I don’t know now how I would’ve reacted then to hard-and-fast evidence, given that I was so blind to the obvious.Now, nearly a decade later I am so, so grateful that she tried. We’re not in touch anymore, though. (She’s a cheater too, unfortunately, and I refused to be Switzerland. What a fucking mess my 20s were.)

    I would be heartbroken (again) now, if I had shown the courage and sensibility to ask for help, and had been met with silence.

    • I was the only one in our circle of girlfriends willing to take it a step further on behalf of our love-daft friend. We were all very young ourselves back then and this was our friend’s first BF. If we all recall what first love was like, we’d understand .. the fantasies about love we’ve been brainwashed with and the lack of knowledge that can only be gained from experience with relationships and dating.

      She was about to marry a gambling addict who lied to her that he was spending his days supposedly at work. Our friend revealed how she found out he had drained her bank account of her life savings — when she got a call from the landlord that the rent check had BOUNCED.

      What was frightening to witness was the deadened, flat tone she used to report all the troubles. She told us about the weird phone calls, strange guys coming to knock on their door, how her BF would look over his shoulder whenever they went out because the loan sharks wanted their money back plus the super-high interest. We begged her to break up with him but she said she couldn’t do it. She was catatonic and passively riding on that train headed for the big wreck.

      Good thing she still listened to her father. On the eve before they were to get married, I went straight to her dad and told him the truth about this guy. I was sobbing with worry while I told him in private everything I knew. Her father calmly thanked me for the information and said he’d take care of it. Later, I found out the wedding was called off that night and her BF flew back home to his mommy (far away, thank goodness, since the guy did try very hard to hoover my friend back into his life). My GF eventually confessed to me she was initially mad at me for breaking them up (and that BF wanted to kill me!), but was now grateful that I had intervened. When the romance-fog cleared, she understood how disastrous her life could have been if they had married.

      However, IF my friend had decided to go ahead and marry the guy, I’ll know I did all I could to help her instead of standing by. She’s my friend, after all. I feel ill when I read CN stories about how the chump was kept in the dark even when “friends” knew what the cheater-abuser was doing. What a double punch to the gut to be betrayed by a circle of people who knew and said nothing!

      Whenever I hear anyone use the excuse that it’s too much work and effort to be kind or to do the right thing, I reply with, “That’s what’s wrong with this world, isn’t it?”

      Thanks, ChumpLady, for this site and all your thoughtful reflections on chump-dom matters.

  • I have a No Contact policy with my ex and anyone associated with him (with the exception of our children). However, this is the ONE instance that I would break the rule — someone directly asks for my opinion about my ex prior to entering a marriage to him. I would warn her. I would tell her not to ignore what her gut and a whole slew of other people are telling her.

    I’d point out that nice, good people don’t generally have a bunch of other people who don’t like them. Nice people generally don’t have a lot of issues at hand. She doesn’t come right out and say what it is that she wants from you. There’s no particular question. So, I would simply say, “Yes, I among those people who do no wish to maintain any kind of relationship with him. I would not advise anyone, including you, to get involved with him long-term.” (I would NOT list off a string of my ex’s offenses.)

    I once was in her position and I ignored the warnings. Hell, I didn’t have the wherewithal to even doubt my judgment. She may want to reach out again once you respond. I may be inclined to answer some specifics, but I don’t think I’d continue any lengthy dialogue with her. It’s not my job to train her or hold her hand while she teeters on the fence.

  • I think a lot of us didn’t have a lot of Red Flags with the cheaters. I didn’t, he presented himself as a decent person, and I thought he was. The writer of the letter has numerous red flags.

    I would confirm that we divorced because he was a liar and a cheater but I wouldn’t really get too deep into the story with her. Also, maybe refer her to some general info on sociopaths.

  • Hi i havehate, I think that you should meet with her and give her the facts. I would have loved for someone to warn me but had to decipher all the bullshit by myself. If you are in a position to help someone you should, turn your ‘hate’ into something productive, don’t let what happened to you happen to her. I really don’t think the message is bizarre, she is apologetic because she knows approaching you is unconventional. I would love to know the outcome of this meeting…ClL could you keep us posted?

    • fbi and everyone else suggesting to give a little more………I get it; I really do. BUT….clearly in her 2nd email she is going to marry him anyway. I feel like my simple yet loud and clear message of trusting her gut oughta do it along with everyone else she has contacted that has given her even more information than me. I can’t make her not marry him….she sounds pretty set on it to me. Don’t you think she has enough info in her back pocket?
      Earlier, someone said we’re not set out to be the keepers of the X’s future women/men….cause there will be more. I agree and I personally would like to forget about my nightmare; it’s been a really rough 2+ years (well 3+ since D-Day).
      Trust me, I’d love to give her every sickening detail but she’s set out to learn like the rest of us……the hard way.
      She thinks she’s the ‘special’ one that he will be different for……I thought that too.

      • Definitely been a rough two and half years for me. All over but the house disposal and the fuck you asswipe see you! Not! I have become so against marriage I really have it seems like what the hell let’s get married can always get divorced. No more marriages for me ever! But I hope that all of you here that have remarried have the greatest of lives being married. Apparently I’m no good at it. I married an anger quick to temper alpha male and he was calm for years time it came full circle now whore juice is excited by that she’s a fool just like I was. He will never change they never do.

      • Her letter reads like she knows exactly who he is. The line where she questions whether he is “the man he pretends to be” is particularly revealing. She knows, and she is on a train wreck because she wants to make it better and she think she can do no better. She also sounds like she gets off on being the bigger person, reaching out to IHH and complimenting her. A real chumpity chump because she reminds me of me. Cringe inducing but also glad I am not who I was–It’s painful to see in someone else.

      • Hi again I have hate, I have a good quote by maya angelou which I interpret to cheaters : when someone shows u who they r believe them! When I first dated my ex he told me he had cheated on all the women in his life, and I never took this as forshadowing!!! Yes u r right even if u warn her she might marry him but I personally always go for justice and feel someone should be told the truth especially if seeking it.

  • I know someone who works in a sensitive area. She said NEVER put anything in writing. You don’t know this person. He may have her so snowed that nothing you say is going to change one thing. SAD makes people sad. It does not turn them into nut jobs. I think this woman has serious reservations but is still way deep in unicorn land. Could you tolerate a face to face? My job has been so loaded with disordered people that I learned years ago to be so neutral that nothing could be used against me in court. It saved my butt a bunch of times. Don’t stick your neck out. This is what I would say to her. “I was married to him. I do not ever want to marry him, be friends with him or have anything to do with him.” If you have children you might say ……”except about our children.” Do not give ANY specifics. If she asks anything more just tell her you stand by what you said 100% and leave it at that. If she has already gotten vibes from others recommend she speak to them.

    • The lady hasn’t bothered to check on the definition of Seasonal Affective Disorder. It makes people depressed and can easily be treated — medication, environmental change, therapy. Something an adult would do, particularly if they cared about their family and fiance. This lady is thinking she can do it for him. BTDT

    • If she keeps pushing you might say, “I am thankful because I am not married to him anymore.” I think at that point you have gotten the truth across to her w/o saying one bad thing about him. First, do “yourself” no harm.

  • Definitely nothing in writing. Could provoke violence asswipe damn near killed other whore choked her unconscious and thought he killed her for trying to hurt me by doing something so junior high school was ridiculous. Told me everything I needed to know about whore juice. He said she is what he needs in his life right now. Yep, a little girl immature 50ish year old just like him to be the little girl whore to his little boy whore. Great examples for both of their grown kids.

  • She (future wife of cheater) is asking, You should tell her (in person-not in writing). There is no guarantee that she will even believe you or take the facts into consideration since she hasn’t with anyone else. I think the key here is that the (future cheated on wife) has to flat out and ask you – “did he cheat on you”. She sound that she might soon. She will have to really think-feel-absorb and digest the facts you are about to tell her. At the very least if she still decides to marry, maybe your words and here family’s words will get her to leave earlier in the marriage than later.

    • On the flip-side, what if this future bride had a history of being the OW (in previous relationships)? Would you still be apt to tell her then? Prob not. You just will never know and there is no need to know that. As I re-think this, if she is truly a good person (chump) she will reach out to you again. You shouldn’t be the one pressured in this.

  • I would not reply to this woman. His son recommended you for this job? No chaos. Not your problem. She doesn’t want a warning, she wants to USE you for her excuse to cancel the wedding. He’s rushing her into getting married. You gained a life. Keep it that way.

  • There are several problems with these types of situations, chief among them being that each of us has a learning curve, and it takes as long as it takes for each of us to get to the place we have to be to make the decision that is right for us. Some of us don’t even get clued into the truth until we have been left. How awful it is to find that someone you have spent years of your life, untold amounts of your resources, and perhaps have even agreed to have children with is an evil mirage. To accept that you have been cheated, you have wasted so much of your precious time, and that you somehow failed to pick up on the early warning signs is a tremendous and bitter pill to swallow.

    It is entirely natural to want to save someone else from this unnecessary pain. It also has elements of danger. You may be successful some times — you may be ignored or written off as bat-shit crazy on others. I decided early on that if I was asked, I would not lie. What I told was limited, and I was very careful. I had two sons that I had to finish raising, and I wouldn’t do anything to endanger them. I also resented the introductions to the various and sundry new women who were being included in our children’s life events, always too quickly, and that I was supposed to act like we were still friends. I knew this was to further delude and confuse the new women — and I resented being used this way.

    I was able to warn several — my exH was not as slick as he thought. One woman was able to figure out the truth of the matter when I answered a few simple and direct questions she asked, and she just politely opted out of his life. I think her radar was on anyway — because her ex had been a serial cheater, too. Another one seemed likeable enough when I met her, although I sensed that I had not been told the truth about her, and later found out I was right. I looked her in the eye when we said good-bye one day and simply said, “Be Careful.” She did tell my ex what I had said, which I find to be incredibly stupid. If she wanted to know what I meant, she should have asked. However, it took her a few months to unravel the skein and she eventually dumped him. I guess she knows what it is to be careful now. Another one had to call me several times, and she was stupid enough to try to get “what did she mean by this” answers from the ex for a long time. She had some great early warning signals that she totally ignored. For instance, Mr Wonderful sent us the SAME Valentine Card. She called me to let me know he had sent her the nicest card, and when I told her he had sent me a nice card too, and described it for her, she became unglued because it was the same card. I had to laugh — he was love-bombing me to try to get back together, while he was love bombing her to try to fool her into doing something stupid he wanted her to do. This back when I understood that I should go “no contact” but I was not quite strong enough to do so.

    At any rate, it is impossible to warn all of the potential candidates because there will always be too many of them, and grown adult partners should develop skills to protect themselves. I endured a very painful education in the school of hard knocks and the infidelity police academy, but I learned some great lessons that have proven to be very helpful in my current life. If anyone asks, I try to answer, but I do so verbally and I don’t feel compelled to provide “proof.” If they are asking, they already feel the truth in their gut. If they ignore your answer, they will live to regret that decision.

    You will probably feel better when you tell the truth, but they have to decide if they want to be set free by it.

  • I have this mental image of a little girl walking down the aisle in front of the bride, but instead of flowers, she’s scattering little red flags. Which the bride is walking right over on the way to her sparkly groom.

    • I love that! Wish someone had done that for me, although at the time I probably would have thought ‘oh, what pretty red flags!’ I think I needed thumbtacks, or fire ants or something less subtle.

      • Maybe add some of those ‘angry’ women using bigger red semaphore flags, frantically waving warnings to her…..unheeded, sadly….

  • You should reply, since she asked, but reply with only the basic facts as you experienced them. I’ve written an example below (which obviously you would tailor to your own situation).

    “Dear [Silly OW],

    [Asshat] cheated on me [#] of times with [#] women over [#] of years. He repeatedly lied and manipulated me through out the course of our relationship. I tried to work on our problems, but I couldn’t continue to stay married [or in a relationship] with someone who continually jeopardized my physical, mental and emotional health.

    I hope that you have close friends and relatives that you can confide in who are willing and able to help you evaluate your current situation with [Asshat] and give you advice that’s in your best interests.

    Good luck!



  • I disagree that she should meet her in person. You don’t know if she’s a psycho or a bunny boiler or just trying to size you up. And if there is concern about his reaction to something you put in writing, what would his reaction be if you chatted in person with the new girlfriend? Who cares what he thinks, but if the worry is about stirring up shit or breaking no contact, an in-person meeting would be worse (if he found out about it.) If you want to reply to her, a simple “I divorced him because he cheated on me.” isn’t slanderous or appear to be you attacking him, just plain simple truth.

  • It seems to me that she is describing some sort of mania (seasonal disorder?????) that could be related to borderline personality disorder or is bpd. I am the same age as CL and only personally experienced a bpd man a few years ago. I could not understand his changeable behaviours (more changeable than the weather). I knew something was off…and much later (post break up) did a google search to figure it all out. If IHaveHate knows that this is the case, then I think I would offer to have a cup of coffee with this woman – but limit it to 1 hour and then move on. Or just send her to some good web links on male bpd.

    Always, always trust your gut.

  • She’s referring g to Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), where people are adversely affected by the lack of light and possibly vitamin D in the winter months. Many people suffer from a type of depression around this time.

    • And it sounds like he’s trying to explain away some bad behavior or change in mood on SAD. He’s probably just a narc entering the detach, devalue, discard phase.

      • This so called ‘man’ is a fake, phony, and a fraud. He’s doing whatever it takes to con her too, including his faux no more amphetamine taking. Does he no longer have ADD??? Cause that’s what he took it for!
        He used to cry sometimes but not a tear anywhere, including not even his eyes welled up. Rare disorder? I dunno; I guess anything can be.
        No good……..

  • Sounds to me like the red flags are waving and her gut is screaming. Poor lady, she got mixed up with the disordered and doesn’t want to believe it but something is telling her to find out before she walks down that aisle. I’d simply tell her your story and let her make of it what she will.

    • Sounds like the woman who wrote this letter has white-knight syndrome. She needs someone to save in order to feel needed. Poor thing, she is codependent and their marriage is doomed. Wish she’d listen to her gut, just like I wish I’d listened to mine.

    • I wonder if her reference to seasonal disorder means “this season of his life,” and not the SAD kind. Either way, it’s an odd way to describe a drug addicted serial cheater. Sounds like she’s blaming it all on the drugs he was taking.

      • This is so interesting Lyn. I warned the OW he was a serial cheater who dated every spring with multiple women. He was seeing two others while screwing her. I warned her about the depressive winter months when he was busy with his business and picked up one nighters. She thought she was special. Just saw him this weekend with the blond he was dating in 2014. Supposedly, she’s leaving her family. Yet he’s still living with the whore. I believe she wanted to make peace with me to gather more information. Life is so peaceful without that chaos. I have no intentions of ever getting entangled with any of them. Popcorn for the fallout. That’s it.

  • Thank you Chump Lady, this couldn’t be more timely for me! I got a 1:30 am phone call this morning from my ex husband’s live-in GF. She was not the cause of the breakup – she is the last (actually probably not the last) in a long line of serial cheating on his part. She moved in with him before I filed but I didn’t know about her until much later. She’s worried. She’s been reading my posts on FB (including sharing Chump Lady posts) and is suddenly afraid of what she’s dealing with. I told her she had every reason to be worried. But when she got to the part where she told me that he told her he had never been faithful in our thirty plus years together I realized that, in the words of the great Jeff Foxworthy, “you can’t fix stupid.” I told her the truth and wished her luck. Whether she acts on the information or not is up to her. I do take issue with her telling me that I should make sure my (adult) children have a relationship with their dad. They don’t. That’s their choice. And considering she told me her ex has custody of their kids? I don’t think she is in a position to give me parenting advice. On the plus side, I’m feeling beautifully meh this morning (and it’s TUESDAY!!). I’m just so happy that the fucktard is her problem now and not mine.

    • 1.30am phone call??? That’s seriously disrespectful. What are you Beth? The 5th emergency service? I got a 7.15 am call this morning from a friend wanting me to fire-fight her on-again, off-again relationship. Calls come in after 10pm at night and before 9 am in the morning I instantly think some one I love has died – haven’t much patience for relationship counselling after that!

      • Notice how these ‘girlfriends’ always call at inopportune or just plain disrespectful times? Or the blathering shit of ‘I don’t think this is a good idea, BUT *I will do it anyway*’ crap which came from IHH’s letter-writer.
        Fuck that, you aren’t there to validate their sorry sausage shit.

  • In this era of smartphones, it would be easy for her to record your every syllable. It’s not just the printed word that could have repercussions. I would be extremely careful.

    • Wow, Chumpalumper! Thanks for confirming that I was NOT being a paranoid bitter bunny by thinking the very same thing.

  • If you do offer her any further information, I’m wondering if addressing the issue of his amphetamine use might open the spackled-over cracks for her a little wider. It sounds as if you were with him long enough to witness disordered behavior that happened while he was taking them and while he wasn’t, perhaps eliminating them as a “cause” of his “seasonal” disorder.

    I sometimes wish I’d thought to look up the list of the side effects of a medication my STBX was on when we first met, which he blamed for one of the first major red flags I called him out on. But I didn’t, and went ahead and bought the meds story. It wasn’t until years after he stopped taking them that I went and looked up the side-effects–huge, exhaustive list, but the “symptoms” he was continuing to experience were not among them.

    • Ihavehate said that her ex uses drugs for his ADD. Adderall and Ritalin are both amphetamines and are both highly addictive. Very unlikely he’s stopped taking them and once hooked, users have been known to seek out more potent drugs of that ilk like meth for instance.

      What a train wreck!

  • It’s hauntingly interesting to hear the voice of a person that I was at one time. A person who is being smacked in the face with red flags but who insists on becoming the spackle queen rescuer, setting herself up to sacrifice herself and lose herself in order to save him. My cheater had not been married and I didn’t know any of his old girlfriends, so I didn’t have anyone to ask. But there were so many concerns that nagged at me – that is, until I smothered them with spackle. I bet a lot of chumps here can identify with this willfully naive person.

    • Flower lady, looking back, one of the big red flags with the ex was that he was almost 40 years old and had no exes, anywhere. No marriage, no engagements, no shack outs. Nothing. I had more history by the time I was 18 than he had altogether. Oh, it also left the door open for him to pursue whores from the past. Fucker.

      • I wouldn’t say thats a red flag, unless its coupled with other behaviour.
        It could also be because the person is tired of the dramatic bullshit that some people of the opposite sex pull (being delibrately gender-neutral), and didn’t want to be a part of that crap – so took a lengthy hiatus.

    • When you are young, of the age when people marry, thinking about the future and the idea of having a family, it is hard not to spackle. We go out every day looking to partner up and the idea that you may never have a partner, may never have a family is pretty scary to a lot of women.
      I ignored a lot of red flags and a pretty churny gut but I’ve forgiven my younger self. Can’t go back in time and I have 2 lovely kids as a bonus prize.

      • Very well-said, FinallyAwake. I’m close to forgiving my younger self, but will counsel my kids to have children on their own (if they want them) rather than marry someone disordered to have them. Life as a single parent would have been hard for me financially and practically, but less devastating emotionally than having a jerk spouse who decimated me and my ability to parent effectively.

  • This would be my reply if my ex-husband’s new woman (who is not the OW) sent me an e-mail like this:

    “Hi BTB,

    I can tell that [ex-husband] didn’t tell you the truth about why we split up, otherwise you would not have contacted me.

    [Ex-husband] and I were married from 2003 – 2014, just shy of 11 years. Over the course of that time, [ex-husband] had three extramarital affairs–that I know of. Two physical affairs (in 2004 and 2014) and one intense, emotional affair that led to him effectively abandoning me and his older disabled child while I was pregnant with our second (in 2013). Since infidelity is a form of abuse, I have instructed [ex-husband] not to contact me unless it’s about child support or the children.

    There were a lot of problems in the marriage apart from infidelity. [Ex-husband] never cleaned up after himself, he seldom helped with housework, he worked only low-paying dead-end jobs and got fired from them every 1-2 years, he almost never ran errands for me because “I forgot,” he got put on indefinite academic suspension so that he never finished college, he was a pathological liar and self-avowed sociopath, and he stole money from me repeatedly. Since our divorce in 2014, he has spent thousands of dollars paying off traffic citations and was even arrested because of one of them.

    Please don’t deceive yourself. [Ex-husband] doesn’t have a “seasonal disorder,” he has a deeply ingrained character problem, and unless he admits that he has a problem and checks himself into some serious therapy, it isn’t going to change.

    If you have more specific questions, please feel free to ask. If you decide to marry him, I wish you all the best.

    – Rarity”

  • IHaveHate – it’s got to be gratifying to learn that ‘shit-for-brains’ is being consistent … and so quickly too! I understand it must have thrown you a googlie getting this contact from his new victim, and I can understand why you don’t want to get drawn back into the circus that surrounds him – but damn! Lovely validation! I personally would copy and paste CL’s response to BTB. Someone else upstream said she sounds like a nice person, and I thought so too. Just proof isn’t it, that he chooses good people to screw over. God bless her, but it’s obvious he’s playing his games with her.

    Also, how lovely to hear his son said you were a sweet lady. That’s great, isn’t it? 🙂

    • Jayne…..gratifying for sure! I’ve prayed to know that his world would go down in flames (it’s gonna soon) in whatever way HE chose to give to me. I do feel bad that it is gonna be at her expense; don’t wish that pain on anyone.
      Not sure of her age but she’s probably at least 25 years younger (yes, saw her pic) and even if I didn’t I was once told that he said he is all done with dating people his age…..only the youth for him! (he’s 55) perv!
      Anyway, and yes, love hearing that his son says I’m a sweet lady……he was always a good boy. Loved that kid (well, he’s a young man but still a kid to me).

  • The only trouble with the spilling to her is possible libel action from the Ex. That’s why she should keep it short, verbal and unrecorded.

    This new ingenue sounds naive to say the least, but let’s remember that not everyone has the advantage of chump-experience. She needs a good dose of reality. Just tell her to give it generous time before she gets pregnant.

      • But that never matters to disordered cockgoggles like him – they’ll spin it as libel anyway and lie through their teeth.

        • Yep, Lania…….he twisted everything around in a couple of court cases with 2 ex’s because he had the $$$ to do it and outlast the poor women.
          He’s a no good fuck! Can’t wait till he rots!

  • I would write her back. I would maybe write up a pithy little diary of my life with Ho-hub. And say- if any of this feels like you, don’t do this. If you don’t want this to be your train of thought… Then you need to call off the engagement. Or… Make sure he does the work to not end up here again. It’s not seasonal. It’s ‘she’s mine now so I can revert to my natural state of sucking’ … Something like… Here’s a look at my ghost of Christmas past, which could be the ghost of Christmas future for you, fiancé…

    Christmas, 2015 (New Years is Christmas with my family this year…)

    “Dear diary: I actually had a really bad day yesterday. Like… Hiding in a change room at the mall and trying to prevent a panic attack while also having to take asthma meds because I couldn’t breathe (and steroids don’t exactly help alleviate the ‘run hide die’ feelings of a panic attack so it’s kind of oppositional to have both at once. sigh.). I log into my cell info once a day or so, and wowza was Ho Hub particularly prolific in his contacting all night of the 28-29th and yesterday while we were strategically shopping at the mall for my family. Moments before he called me, to say he was done at the bookstore, he talked to Astrid, the Hooker who likes it up the ass. And before that, message after message between him and Karmen, the boisterous escort with piles of excellent reviews and proclamations that she’s clean and bubbly, genuine, not a sting (because apparently getting arrested is sometimes on people’s minds, but not actually so much so that they wouldn’t pay for sex), and gosh darn it her pictures match who shows up. Well golly gee that’s fucking adorable. Strangely, I still would prefer if my husband would not text her and coordinate God knows what. I don’t give a shit about how open to multiples the BBW Anita is, I actually would like a day of peace without some other woman’s ass being on my mind because my husband has decided that’s his sex life, and I’m the fucking running joke of his life. (I’m running, that’s for sure).”

    I’m just saying… It’s not great. And if you’re already getting the shit end of the stick, you have time to stop this before he totally crushes everything you’re made of.

    Good luck.
    Gossip girl
    Oops I mean CreativeRational

    • For clarity- the only reason I suggest she say he has to do therapy is not because I actually think it would help, it’s not that I think it’s a real path.. It’s something she would grasp to as a middle road, and he will resist, refuse, and probably break off the engagement to avoid. She would then be smacked with some reality- he doesn’t want to change. Still a win win in my books.

  • i did not see her ask any questions. the whole email seemed like a fake to me. she did not really say anything nor did she ask anything. it seemed like she was more like nanny nannie boo boo, i got your boyfriend. he is mine now. and if you dont believe me i can send you a link of our wedding announcement…. ….. … sorry, WHO THE F*CK does that?? i have NEVER been tempted to send a link of my wedding announcement to ANYONE.

    seems to me she believes the horror stories the man has told her about you. and wanted to throw it in your face that she got him to plan a wedding with her. it doesnt matter that she is not the OW, i think she is STILL bat sh*t crazy. some woman are just like that.

    my response would be something like “i dont knw what he told you about me and you did not ask anything that i could answer. what is it exactly it is that you want to know. i have no desire to defend myself nor do i have any desire to talk/think about him. from what you emailled me, you already have enough information regarding his character and it looks like you still are choicing to married someone you just met.

    or something like that. be careful with this one, she definitely is fishing for something.

  • If it were me, I would ask BTB if she is familiar with Game of Thrones. If so I would confirm my ex does have a seasonal disorder but it’s of the GoT variety where winters can last for decades.

    If she wants a man who haz a sad for 20 years, she’s good to go. Otherwise, run girlfriend RUN!

  • This is why I am a chump. If I wanted to approach the first wife, this is the kind of letter I would write. She is being polite. She is saying she understands if you don’t want to write back. I suspect it is sincere and the answers are needed for clarity. So I would communicate with her. Tell here the truth, without editorializing. With these disordered horrors, you don’t need to editorialize, their plain behavior is enough. I guess I would put myself in her place. How I wish I had someone tell me that XH was not a good prospect for long term happiness. I pray I would have run. In fact I did have someone try and tell me that, our minister, who wanted to refuse to marry us. When he did this on the wedding day, I put it down to his being 92. Nah, he was a wise old man.

    • NeverAgain, your comment about the wise old man reminded me of the years after my divorce when I was learning how to date. I would take my boyfriends to the restaurants I frequented. One of venues was owned by an older, hard-working, fatherly type who recognized me as a regular. He was always there during the dinner hour.

      Via his facial expressions when he’d come over to talk to me and serve the food, I could tell whether he approved of my date or not, haha! And, he was usually correct in his assessment — most of those dates didn’t go on much further. Too bad he retired and closed the restaurant .. no more date-o-meter for screening out my choices!

  • b) Assholes don’t have “seasonal disorders” — they’re assholes winter, spring, summer, and fall. He’s a cheater, not someone suffering from hay fever.

    So FUNNY Chump Lady!!!! But ABSOLUTELY TRUE! Hehehehehe!!! I can’t stop laughing!!!

    But it is true these folks just can’t maintain ‘normal’ for long, they have no concept of ‘normal’ nor do they want to work that hard at any relationship…they just want you to do the heavy work in the relationship, make them look good and take very good care of them while they do whatever they want whenever they want. Yep…that is who these (in) humans are.

  • IHaveHate–

    I know you’ve had the gamut of responses here–so much more than you’d anticipated!

    First, her letter and response to you show just why it’s a terrible idea to marry someone who trips your warning bells. Second, the adage that adults don’t need saving applies to her as well.

    If he has done something that scares her, she needs to face that fact and call off the wedding. Or delay it. Crazy people can’t keep the crazy in all the time. Dollars to doughnuts his mask has just started to slip. In 6 months, it’ll be completely off.

    She reached out to you. You warned her. She has blameshifted his crazy onto the drugs/mental illness. She still wants to volunteer to take him on as a project. This is its own version of crazy. We Chumps know that you can’t make people change. We take to heart Maya Angelou’s “when people show you who they are believe them; the first time!”

    I guess that if she reaches out to you for more, you could respond in kind–or offer to meet her for coffee someplace. Ask her what she really wants to know, as she’s not really gotten to the heart of the matter. Answer. You’ve already established yourself as Not The Crazy Bitch that Asshole Told Her You Were. Let her know that you respect that it’s her life, her decision, but your advice would be to post-pone (not cancel) the wedding for a while he deals with his issues. This way, she’ll know he’s well on the road to recovery and she can help him without being legally tied to him. She’ll feel more confident about their happiness together.

    Personally, I think she has her own issues if she wants to volunteer to save a man she’s not even married to, but that’s beside the point here.

    If she is hell-bent for leather, then at least you tried. But since you already tried once and she didn’t want to hear, there’s no point in following up unless she contacts you once more.

    • Truthfully, I believe that you don’t need to be giving a person that you do not know personal details about your life with your ex. There is no way to know what her intent is, or who she will share the info with. If you have already done your part for humanity, i.e. exposed the lying cheater pig for what he is to friends, family, coworkers, etc, it will get back to her. If that isn’t enough info for her, it’s on her. She got a head’s up that you did not already.

      • I don’t think you need to give the personal details. I think that ihavehate did a great job of being very neutral in her initial response. If the BTB pushes, don’t volunteer answers; ask her what she’s really asking. She’s clearly fishing for something, but she’s got to identify what she wants to know. If she wants to know if Cheaterpants gets physically violent because she’s heard rumors to that effect or watched him punch a hole in the wall, and if ihavehate has seen this behavior, she can reply simply, “yes, Cheaterpants will hit people when he becomes angry.”

        I also don’t think that ihavehate has to volunteer to meet up with BTB. If BTB reaches out once more and if ihavehate wishes to respond, then that’s another thing altogether.

        • I agree I have hate handled it well. Still if knowing he is a confirmed cheater doesn’t get rid of her marrying a cheater, what will?

  • She is a chump. She has been warned and still feels the need to reach out to seek more opinions. She’s not looking for more confirmation for what her gut is already telling her. She wants an excuse, just one little piece of chump kibble to tell herself she can save/fix/cure this fucktard. That’s what we chumps do. We try to fix these broken wing mother fuckers only to have them turn around and peck us to death, destroy our nests and fly off to another tree to repeat the process all over again.

    • srfrgrl, “She wants an excuse, just one little piece of chump kibble to tell herself she can save/fix/cure this fucktard. That’s what we chumps do. We try to fix these broken wing mother fuckers only to have them turn around and peck us to death, destroy our nests and fly off to another tree to repeat the process all over again.”

      Exactly what went through my mind. She gives a list of why she should be running the other way, several “angry” women, changes in behavior, drug addiction, changes in mood and behavior with an excuse on why this would be. SAD doesn’t make you lose your morals or integrity though cheaters love to use this particular disease to justify bad behaviors. She already “knows” why she should be running the other way, she just wants a bit of kibble to continue with what she wants to do.

      Say no to “destroying out nests”!!!!! These f*cks have done more than enough to us. If another wing fixer wants to jump in, even though IHH responded to her, then by all means go for it. If you don’t trust your own gut who can you trust.

  • I really feel badly for this young woman. Ihavehate posted that she’s at least 25 years younger than her ex (he’s 55). It also looks like in spite of Ihavehate’s response to her, she still wants to proceed with the wedding. She’s in for a life of living hell.

    • Uniquelyme…….have no fear……it wont be a ‘life’ of hell. Just a “season” 🙂 or two. He never stays long. I was the longest at 10 years (we weren’t married). But if she marries him……it’ll be his 4th marriage.

  • When asked how you can lie or not answer. And advise her to wait. I found marriage to be a license to abuse another person short of killing them anything goes. My advice to anyone contemplating marriage, if after five years together (2) seeing each other and 3 living together you are qualified to know if you are marrying the right person. Marriage is supposed to be for life, how can you truly make this kind of commitment if you don’t truly know the person inside and out and they you. People rush in out of fear when really time gives you all the answers. All new relationships are honeymoons – where you both present your both sides, only time lets the true nature of the person reveal itself.

    • I lived with asswipe for five years before marriage then married twenty five. I thought I knew him pretty well I didnt. Just wasted my life I will never marry or live with any man again. I’m 60 it’s just not worth it.

  • This is D-Day month for me. My divorce was final 8 months ago. I found out when I noticed that our new car seat was damaged in a way that could only be attributed to sex. XH came up with a number of implausible excuses when confronted before saying that he didn’t know what happened to the seat, but it wasn’t sex. He said we should hire a forensic scientist to analyze the seat and said he wanted to do violence to me in the case that cum was not found. We did go to an auto detail shop and the employee told us that it looked like someone had dragged a concrete block or sandpaper across the seat. A year before D-Day, when I asked XH to have a talk with me about our marriage, he physically assaulted me and said he hated me, was using me for my money and did not want to have sex with me. I am now wondering if he was cheating on me then. We had stopped going to a certain store together because a certain sales clerk always seemed to be noticing him and he always seemed to be noticing her. It was this store that he continued to go to without me as he helped his elderly mother with her groceries and medicine while I worked to support him, as he decided many years ago that he was no longer interested in gainful employment. Several months later, when his elderly mother was in a nursing home for a few months, his brother’s wife said she saw our truck at his mother’s house and she knocked at the door and heard noise inside but we didn’t answer her. There was never a time when I was there with him that any one ever knocked at the door. XH said his sister-in-law was a liar and a troublemaker and I initially believed but now I think that he was there cheating on me. He also messed up a new car seat 24 years ago, telling me he threw up on it but now I believe he cheated on me then too, The first D-Day was 35 years ago before we got married when he gave me the crabs.

    • Thank you for posting this. Thank you for being brave. I feel like we should all post our ‘near miss’ dday ghost stories of all the things we probably looked past or overlooked which were actual ddays smacking us in the face. Not red flags. Full on cheating that we ignored. Not just a weird personality trait, or narc disposition.

  • I loved asswipe all those years and he walked away like they meant nothing. Bastards and bitches like them just don’t fucking care if they hurt anyone to gratify what they want. FUCK THEM ALL. All I can do now is go completely and totally no contact forever and never look back. That asswipe is dead to me. I have to heal my heart and spirit and take care of me. Fuck him. He wouldn’t ever talk to me when I needed him to why would I ever wish to talk to him again? No way. If our paths happen to cross perhaps some function with the kids I will do what he always did to me and ignore him totally. He wasn’t ever my friend and he won’t be in the future. I’m mom and that bitch can’t ever change that no matter what and fuck her too. Her family was perfectly happy she was cheating with a married man. No morals there either fuck her family too!

    • “He wouldn’t ever talk to me when I needed him to why would I ever wish to talk to him again?”

      Exactly Kar Marie, they love silence so much while we were married. The ex was almost mute on D-Day. Well now he has the silence not just from me, but from our three children. With a little luck, we hope to never see ya again, loser.

      • Exactly. His son uses the father for questions, money and ass kissing boy is just like his dad. The girl however has her father’s number and what he’s done and who he is has not gone over well with her. She is figuring out what a fucked up guy he is, she doesn’t want to see her father in this light but unlike dear man whore dad she sees him for exactly what he is. He was a good provider while they were growing up and he was in the house but he never made himself available emotionally with what they needed. She is the exact opposite of her dad.

        • Creepily similar, kar marie, my ex was always “available” in the house, but emotionally distant and withdrawn. Raged about the house not being clean, etc. Obsessed with his own business and little else. But we thought he loved us. Little did we know till after D-Day that he had a whole other life going on, group sex, porn, long-term AP’s. That’s the little we now know, I’m sure there’s more. What freaks,

          • Same here kelly a whole other life. Now is available to the whores daughters and grandbabies but not his own never was. That will wear off when the newness wears off and the grandbabies stop being so cute with minds of their own. His own kids screw them except when hes showing them off cause they are pretty. Hes an asshole to the nth degree#

  • She appears desperately grateful that Ihavehate didn’t give her any specifics. She clearly contacted Ihavehate in an effort to gather support to stay with him and to allow her cognitive dissonance to continue. She admits she was already told he is a liar and a cheat, at which point Ihavehate pretty much only tells her to follow her gut. Yet that is the one thing she announces that she is refusing to do (even though her gut is obviously telling her he is going to lie to and cheat on her when she is old, gains weight, gets sick, etc). If Ihavehate had given her specifics, she would have condemned her for being graceless and nasty and discounted it anyhow.

    I also agree there is something very odd about the language and strange reasoning she employs. Seasonal affective disorder? Mixed with drug/amphetamine addiction? And she was specifically told the guy’s a cheater and cheated on Ihavehate….but thinks Ihavehate “rocks” for not specifically saying so….and is gonna marry him anyhow. And she attaches the wedding announcement to show she is legit, and clearly to distinguish herself from the legions of AP’s she apparently knows he has had. Almost sounds like a joke, or a set up, but I can’t figure out why.

    Anyhow, there is no saving someone who does not want to be saved. He’s someone else’s problem now, Ihavehate, get outta there.

    • She attached the wedding announcement as “proof” of the “seriousness of the impending marriage” (see…we ARE getting married) so that she will be taken more “seriously and compassionately” by Ihavehate (a former chump)…good move. She is hoping that her “concerns” might be given credibility by Ihavehate…and wishes to glean more detailed information (that she already suspects) so she can “steel” herself better….NOT so that she will be encouraged to call off the wedding. She is hoping that if Ihavehate has anything to share with her, that she will be “better prepared” at giving this relationship a go, regardless of KNOWING the facts as well as her choice to do so anyway (the announcement is already out…she “has no choice” at this point). She is still, nevertheless, hoping for the best, while also, preparing for the worst…she has the “I can save him” complex. Nevertheless, she also hopes to be an accepted member of the “betrayed wives club” (via Ihavehate) in the future, She knows that she will probably need major support to help to get her out of this impending tragedy…AFTER the fact. In short, she is triangling with Ihavehate because she “knows” something is not adding up…albeit, “seasonally”. The “I told you so” that she will be offered by Ihavehate, will only come in handy AFTER the fact. She is a chump.

  • My thinking on this is that you should say, sure if you want to talk, no problem, we can meet in person to discuss any questions you may have.

    I would hesitate to put anything at all in writing.

  • I agree with jj — meet in public, and at least have one person with you, just for the witness factor; or record the entire conversation so that nothing you say can be twisted around….

    a) Don’t marry someone you just met “a few months ago.” (Wedding announcement in the newspaper? WTF?!) You need a least a year for the impression management to wear off. You’re being love bombed. He’s trying to seal the deal before you find out who he really is.

    You think I’m being rash in my judgments? Why don’t you extend the wedding date a year or two and see how his character plays out then? Tell me about his “stability” in 2018.

    b) Assholes don’t have “seasonal disorders” — they’re assholes winter, spring, summer, and fall. He’s a cheater, not someone suffering from hay fever.


    Oh my word, YESSSSSS!!!!!

    a) The Evil One is following his script/M.O. to a T with his OWife. He propsed to me (actually, he got on one knee, showed me a ring, but couldn’t get the words out) ….needless to say, we were only together 6 months when he “proposed”, but it took me another 8 months to actually marry him —- OWife and him met, “engaged”, married within 6 months.

    b) True, true, true!!!!

    IHaveHate: I hope you will keep us posted about what you decide to do.

    • Unsinkable…..I’m 99.9% gonna do what I already did. I answered her email with a short and sweet, yet very telling truth. That’s it! I’m out!
      Like a lot of others have said…..not my circus, not my monkeys.
      I feel for her but she’s not my responsibility. PLUS….she’s had many others give her info too.
      I’m not sure what more she wants…..
      I’m pretty sure with all she has already, it won’t take her long to finalize he’s a creep pretty quickly.

  • This new wife is fact checking – on IHaveHate. I’m sure XH has filled the new little ladies head with boatloads of crap about IHH, now she wants to see if his description is true. Because the groom couldn’t possibly be lying….

    This new wife id a complete ignoramus. She already knows about him, it’s obvious, she already has made her decision – nothing IHaveHate is going to say is going to “help” her…

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