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Science Vindicates “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life”

what-my-ex-cheated-on-you-after-he-cheated-on-me-with-you-im-shocked--0dceeSo here’s some good news from last week — a new study came out vindicating chumps everywhere.

Psychologists asked over 5,000 women chumps about their relationship break-ups. Turns out the chumps fixed their pickers, learned from the experience, and had better future relationships. They also experienced more personal growth outside their relationships.

And karma bonus — the Other Woman who “won” the cheater?  They turn out to be the losers.

The study, led by Dr Craig Morris, an evolutionary biologist at Binghamton University in New York in conjunction with University College London, explored the experience of 5,705 women in 96 countries — and is the largest study ever on relationship dissolution.

Our thesis is that the woman who “loses” her mate to another woman will go through a period of post-relationship grief and betrayal, but come out of the experience with higher mating intelligence that allows her to better detect cues in future mates that may indicate low mate value.

‘Hence, in the long-term, she “wins”. The “other woman”, conversely, is now in a relationship with a partner who has a demonstrated history of deception and, likely, infidelity.

‘Thus, in the long-term, she “loses”.’

The study, published in the Oxford Handbook of Women and Competition, also explored the dynamics of the pick-me dance and concluded that it sucked.

‘Typically psychological and relational in nature, this competition may be no less damaging than physical violence more commonly used between males.”

In short, “winning” cheaters leads to crappy outcomes. (Have at it, Becky!) Gaining a life without cheaters leads to greater wisdom, happiness, and relationship success.

Thank you, Science!

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  • I trust your experience, CL, but it’s nice to know that there’s been research done on the matter. I remember hearing similar sentiments from “Dear Abby” columns that cheaters tend to re-cheat, but a little scientific back up is reassuring.

    • This is also part of why I am no longer Facebook friends with my former aunt. I don’t want to be privy to it if she and Husband #2 fall apart.

      • I hate Facebook. My first experience with it after the dday was fucktard unfriending me and changing his status to separated. He’s such an idiot he didn’t realize that I could still see his status through the kids. I sat there with my bottle of wine and tissues and said, “Well, it’s not official until it’s Facebook official.” I have since not only gone NC with fucktard but NC with Facebook. Life is so much better. I still drink the wine, but haven’t cried in tissues in months.

  • I watched the documentary “Happy” on Netflix this weekend and it also supports the premise that Competition is in direct opposition to Happiness, whereas Cooperation leads to better health, longer lives, more happiness.

      • (warning: debbie downer alert)

        I watched Happy with my cheater during reconciliation. My cheater was an expert at watching shows like this and used them to justify her outside-the-marriage true love endeavors.

        Cheaters can took good materials and tweak them to suit their cheating narrative.

        She also would discuss all the books she read by Esther Perel and Brene Brown and Gottman etc with our therapist, fooling him into thinking she was vested in the marriage. She didn’t tell the therapist that she used all these materials to justify her predicament of cake. She truly was proud of her courage to explore her view of true love with some narcissistic a-hole.

        sorry – debbie downer alert over 🙂

  • Of course the Daily Mail article linked above had to embed a chump-blaming video in the article lest the story stray too far from the accepted narrative. “The affair was YOUR FAULT, but now you’re better off for it!” Ugh. So close and yet so far, Daily Mail.

  • So very true, and the study only focuses on women. However I can tell you first hand from the male perspective being cheated on is identical. The problem that I am seeing is most men just give up during the proceedings. I have no clue why but even if the woman did the cheating they just seem to say ok take what you want and get this over with.

    To any men out there reading this you need to read what Chumplady says and fight for what is legally yours. If your spouse cheated on you DO NOT just roll over and give her everything as if you did something wrong. Think about your future and your kids (if you have any) future. The parent who did not do the cheating is more than likely the parent who is going to be responsible for all of the child’s expenses (including college) because they other one is to busy thinking about themselves. By you giving your soon to be former spouse everything you are sacrificing your childs future (and your own). SIMPLY DO NOT DO IT!

    Hell, I even got a wake up slap from Chumplady when I was debating weather to cut my X off of alimony. She made some very valid points which are the same ones I mentioned above!

    Fix yourself, fix your social picker, love your kids and move forward!

    • Thank you, Lothos. I saw a few new dudes on the forums this weekend. Guys, read Lothos’s post again.

      Don’t give those bitches a cent more than you have to. Don’t mediate. Don’t believe a fucking thing out of her lying-ass lying lie hole; get it in writing. Go no-contact yesterday. Don’t surrender. Don’t be a cuck.

    • Lothos, this is so true and so important!

      I’m a woman going through this and am always aware of the behavior I’m modeling for my girls (and hopefully for my sons), and I don’t know the statistics on whether more men leave women due to affairs or vice versa. But the societal acceptance of infidelity that only seems to exacerbate each gender’s role in it needs to change.

      As tempting as it is sometimes, I keep telling my 14-year-old that not all men will do this to their wives if presented with an opportunity, and that it isn’t reasonable that she needs to feel like a walking sex symbol all the time to get and keep a man in the future, either. I’m not the Fox News demographic, and tended to take a live and let live approach, but something’s got to give with marriage, how men and women view their roles in it and the idea that the kids will just bounce back and be fine.

      They need both parents to model cooperative and companionable behavior, but if one parent can’t, the other has to fill in those shoes. I got my older son involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters because I recognize how much he needs a positive male role model in his life and that he won’t get that from his dad.

      So for you dads trying to fight the good fight, please keep it up. Your daughters need to see that so they won’t end up with all those dreaded “Daddy issues” and your sons need to see how men used to try and hold their families together and that this is something that needs to return to society. I’m not advocating the 50’s model of family and am a firm believer in womens’ rights. Rather that typically each parent brings their strengths to the table and the whole thing starts to wabble and tilt when part of that stabilizing force is removed.

      *climbs down off soap box*

      Sorry, but I’m passionate about decent dads sticking it out for their kids. My parents divorced and I think it is still impacting me today, and I see how my kids are struggling without a dad (or even second parent and/or help) and it kills me. So support for you chumpy dads out there. Just because she had your babies doesn’t mean she’s necessarily a fit mom. Again, like I tell my daughter, any idiot can make a baby. But it takes love, strength and determination to be a good parent.

    • THIS ^^^^
      Mine tried to take 65%. I said ok.Then she demanded 75%. After 8 months of dragging it out, I told my lawyer “screw her, only 50-50 and state defined alimony”. And no negotiations. She gave in just days before the court hearing. I got what I wanted, and what the state said was fair.

      • OK, help me out, CN. Here’s the text message I got from her last night: “I wish you hadn’t gone to a lawyer, because now I have to have one. Money. I thought we didn’t have anything to dispute. Now since you left out the retirement acct I guess I need a lawyer. Since I’m not asking for child support do I really need to pay your loans? I could get child support I’m sure, but why don’t I not and you pay your loans? Do we need a lawyer for all this?

        If we do a pro si divorce without paying lawyers. We can file a QDRO for dividing property ourselves. It would cost a lot less.”

        Everything I am hearing says I should basically ignore this from her and move forward with my aggressive lawyer, who said if she wants half the retirement, she’ll have to file a request for it. (I was just assuming it would go in the agreement.) Also, it’s funny she says she could get child support, because she works 4 nights a week, and our schedule now has me with our 12 year-old those 4 nights, meaning she would pay ME child support.

        I don’t want to be rancorous and ugly, or screw over our children by paying more than we have to for lawyers, so I don’t know…

        • CL is correct on her comments. In Maryland child support is calculated by over night stays and the income of both parents. It is also mandatory, neither party can say “I DO NOT WANT CHILD SUPPORT”. The State will force you to take it.

          Alimony on the other hand is not mandatory (and its tax deductible for the person giving it and income for the person receiving it). If your income is significantly more than hers then tell her to not take the Alimony (I doubt she will say that).

          Also FYI, She may not ask for child support during divorce proceedings but she can force it right after or the judge may force it during. So its not really on the negotiating table.

          Keep it simple, split it following the law and don’t offer her a penny more.

          • Trying to convince you to settle the divorce without an attorney is straight out of the narcissistic cheater’s playbook, too. Not all of them start there but many do–flip to the charm channel, claim that they plan to take the high road and be fair, then claim that you want to waste money on an attorney, implying that your goal is to screw them over. Classic manipulation and blameshifting, all in the hope of maintaining control over you and screwing you over in the process.

            Mine tried to pull the same stunt. Why would I want to spend money on an attorney when we are both rational, fair-minded people who could settle this on our own? Meanwhile, he was continuing to rack up credit card debt and let it slip that he considered one of our large joint savings accounts to be non-marital property based on a gift from his family he deposited into it 20 years ago–and he was working to get letters from them to attest to this (it was still marital property anyway).

            Same old same old, and if I hadn’t listened to the advice here, hired the biggest pit-bull in town, and filed on his ass, I’d have been stuck with thousands of dollars in joint credit card debt that I had not contributed to (X ended up with that thanks to my attorney) and he would have raided the joint savings account in dispute, which I ended up with half of (also thanks to my attorney).

            Consider the money spent on an attorney to be an investment in your future, both for you and your children. Mine was not cheap, but I ended up with more money on my side of the settlement ledger than what I spent in attorney’s fees, and that was simply to get what the law allowed me. Had I complied with X’s requests to go it alone, I would have been screwed. And, as with all narcissists, he still would have flipped to the rage channel eventually, the second I stood my ground on anything. Much better to have to face that with a good attorney on your side.

            • FYI, Inheritance is not marital. HOWEVER if you deposit your inheritance into a marital account it then becomes marital.

              So word to the wise, if you ever inherit money, and a large sum, open a separate account under your name and keep the paper trail that started the account (and the money). If you ever get a divorce you just show the paper trail and it will not be considered marital.

              ONE OTHER RULE, lets say you have a marital home and have a mortgage. If you wish to use your inheritance to pay down the mortgage as long as you save the paper trail then that money will be returned to you in a divorce as long as the equity exceeds the amount that needs to be returned.

              FYI, I am going by Maryland case law on this. Not all states follow the same rules however if you keep a paper trail you may be able to convince a judge.

              • My understanding is that once a party commingles funds to pay off a home that is jointly owned by both parties, those funds are converted into martial assets, just like depositing them in a joint account. They benefit the marriage. I’m on the other end of this; I’m contending that stbx lost the right to claim back that portion of his inheritance!

              • @Sionara, depends on the state you live in. For example Maryland case law if one of the spouses owned a home prior to the marriage and sold that home to purchase a marital home then the money that was transferred is non-marital and must be returned to the original spouse. There is tons of case law to suppose this argument (and my case as well supports it).

                As for inheritance, you would have to look up Maryland case law but my thinking is if you have a paper trail and can prove it then you can make a compelling argument that the money needs to be returned and use the down payment case law as support for the argument. Depending on the circumstances surrounding your divorce you may find a sympathetic ear from the Judge.

              • In Illinois, any inheirited monies belong to the person who in inherits it UNLESS THEY DEPOSIT IT INTO A JOINT ACCOUNT WITH YOU. It becomes Comingled and is considered a joint asset the moment it’s deposited.

              • I am the one that put my inheritance into marital assets despite my mother’s instructions in her will. I have asked for the principal to be returned in the settlement (after all he benefitted from the growth on that money from the last 20 years ). He won’t return it after agreeing to so so (and swindled me put of half of the retirement savings to boot). What is fair and what is the law are often 2 very different things….

            • The first thing exH did when I served him with divorce papers was suggest mediation. Um, you’ve been practicing law and doing contract negotiations for 20 years. Yeah, NO. I’ll keep my attorney and see you in court

            • My nursing license was paid by a irrevocable trust… My ex , his lawyers and even my lawyers thought he could claim it ! They were wrong judge ruled it separate property when I provided the my aunts will and proved I was a beneficiary that could use it for school?

        • The lawyer isn’t to punish her. The lawyer is to determine what is a FAIR settlement.

          She cannot be trusted to determine what is “fair”. She has a vested interest not to, AND she has a track record of lies and deception.

          Child support is calculated by the state. If she owes you, great. If you owe her, that’s your responsibility to the kids.

          Her feelings about it don’t play into this.

            • Also, get it in writing that if the retirement account is yours, and you have to give her some, that the fee for the QDRO will be paid by HER. The fee for QDRO’s can be hundreds and hundreds of dollars (I know, I work in financial services).

              • I second this. Doing a QDRO properly is not just a simple fill-out-the-form procedure. People usually need to hire someone to do it, and those people don’t work for free.

                I never understand why people don’t do the QDRO. Yes, it costs money, but how much money do you get for doing it? A lot more than it costs, for sure.

        • Oaktree–are you in a community property state? If so, the calculations are easy–any debt/assets since the start of the marriage get divided 50/50 (with room for extra negotiation).

          • True, just keeping in mind that many narcissists will still try to negotiate their way out of a 50/50 settlement, community state or not. My story above took place in a community property state, though the fact that it was put the burden of proof that he should get more on my X, which he failed to do. Not for lack of trying, though.

            And I could really have been screwed on the credit card debt, which I got out of only because I had a good attorney with strong negotiating skills who also scared the crap out of my X 🙂

            • Another thing that people need to remember is that any division of debt from the marriage doesn’t bind creditors. If the credit card has your name on it but ex ran it up, it’s not going to cut any ice with creditor when ex doesn’t pay it after promising to pay it and creditor comes after you. Of course you have a reimbursement claim against ex for not paying, but good luck with that.

              Speaking only for California here, but if one spouse ran up more debt than the other, that spouse can owe what’s called an “equalization payment.” If anyone is fortunate to get the ex to pay an equalization payment, do use it to pay down the credit card debt and not on living expenses. I’ve seen too many situations in which the disordered spouse lived off the chump spouse’s credit cards, then left them holding the bag for all the debt and ruined their credit.

              • The first thing I did was get him off my cards and me off of his. This helped, of course I managed the money so our credit card debt was nothing. I was worried he’d run up his cards with me on them during the separation. That was my driving force in separating all of our accounts, including the bank. If you have an investment account make sure to notify your rep of the divorce so the account is frozen, they can drain that otherwise. Saddam tried but he was too late.

          • My ex also tried to get me to use his lawyer or go through mediation. In the beginning the cheater may be acting nice to get what they want. However, things get uglier as time goes on. For instance, mine eventually tried to get me to pay a portion of our house payment after I moved in with a friend. He made up the excuse that I needed to do this in order to get my part of the equity after our home was sold, which was BS. My lawyer shut that down in a hurry and told him he was lucky I hadn’t moved into a $1300 a month apartment. She threatened to go to the judge and get temporary maintenance for me to live on which would have cost him more. So, that was the end of that. Also, once my ex knew I was under pressure to everything settled so I could move into my new home, he started changing his mind on some previously agreed upon items. It still unnerves me how a cheater blows up your life, then drags their feet when you’re trying to end it. Please protect yourself. Get your own lawyer.

            • They drag their feet because, godammit, they CAN! It’s all about control. X still does petty little bullshit things to exert control, like not use my first name on child support checks. He knows it takes extra ID and time for me to prove I’m the “C” in Chutes.


            • Same experience here, no mediation but negotiation with each having his/her own lawyer.

              After a good start in negotiations, my X followed with multiple rounds of “I changed my mind” and every possible tactics to stop the divorce proceedings for several months, which led me to have more mindfuckery to recover from post-Divorce.

              If you choose to negotiate outside of court, my advice is to get “an agreement to be relied upon” after each meeting about the terms agreed upon. It is more expensive in lawyer fees, but will be worth it as it stops these fuckers from changing their mind on a whim or using delaying tactics as much.

              If they refuse to have agreements to be relied upon, then go straight to court.

        • Mine did the same thing. Mediation was a perfectly fine choice for us (CA no-fault law, 50/50 splits, no kids, more or less equal assets going in and coming out), but I’m still going to get an attorney to review the settlement and advise me. I may not even do anything with the advice, but it’s best to have the full picture. When I told him I would be getting an attorney to review the settlement (never mind I already have one on retainer) all of a sudden it was “I thought we were not getting lawyers and I’m being so generous, and if your attorney asks questions well this whole agreement is shot.” Basically like a classic Narc… his way is the way to do things and if I think something different, well I will be punished and put in line. Which is not how negotiation works. There is the law, and then we can negotiate around what the law says. But at the end of the day I can and should make sure my interests are protected.

          I also don’t trust him. If he’s offering X… well there must be Y and Z to be taken into consideration as well. I told him as much. I told him you have done nothing but lie to me, so I can only assume you are lying to me about this as well. He’s acting like he is being transparent, but I trust that he sucks and just have decide how much trouble and expense I want to go to in order to make sure that I trust he sucks enough. Plus – well there was stuff I gladly gave up in order to appear conciliatory… stuff that I really didn’t care about. Gave him the impression that he was “winning” some of the “battles” (we haven’t really fought). Of course I can only assume he is doing the same thing.

          • When I did the separation agreement with my XH (drinker, not the Jackass cheater), I wrote the settlement myself but did the property division in a bunch of different, but fair, ways. I’d always handled the real estate and big money issues, and I had a good grasp of what was possible. We came out nearly exactly 50/50. He took it to his attorney buddy to be looked over, but it saved us a bundle. But our issues wasn’t lack of honestly or even lack of caring–he just wouldn’t stop drinking. So I tried to work it out so he would be protected–gave him all household good, etc., so he would be all set. It’s never easy but can work out if people are not narcissistic pricks.

            Now a cheater? I’d call a pit bull lawyer on DDay.

    • What you said applies to women as well. Saddam tried to get way more than he should, including alimony! Thankfully we had no children. I fought for my shit, he still got more than he should but not half and no alimony, entitled bastard. A woman friend of mine just “wanted it over with” she regretted how generous she was after a few of the way higher mortgage payments rolled through. Fight for fair no matter what gender you are!

      • The first thing I did was get Judas off my Sprint account. I figured if he had enough money to go out and get himself a fuck phone while I was paying the family cell phone bills – He can pay for his own cell phone. Or two. Fucker

        • Let me just emphatically state that if you are divorcing a cheater, you need a lawyer – and a good one. Even if you decide to do mediation, you need to be consulting with a lawyer. If Cheaters were honest and scrupulous people by nature, they wouldn’t be cheaters. When a snake sheds its skin, it doesn’t turn into gopher – it’s still a snake. You cannot believe anything they are saying to you. Everything that comes out of their mouths is a play for an advantage of some sort. They will make agreements and not honor them if and when it becomes inconvenient for them or Schmoopie convinces them that you’re taking advantage.

          The one thing you know coming out of the starting gate in a divorce with a cheater is that they cannot be trusted. Simple – you cannot trust people who have shown themselves to be untrustworthy. Now of course, I’ve become jaded after having to deal with Two-Faced Forked Tongue Fucker so you can consider my advice in light of that. However, if there was significant lying and duplicity in your relationship with your cheater, if they tell you it’s raining, you need to go stand outside and get wet before you take their word for it. That is just my humble opinion.

        • Ladystrange, funny you mention cutting off Sprint cellphone immediately.
          I always had a family cellphone plan. I was the authorized user!Thats how exh was caught by cellphone then tracked howorker down!?
          However, I did wait about two months before I shut off and cutoff the cellphone from the family plan, cause he deserved it. His nasty lowdown rude telephone toughguy shit! Ta dah! And what is even more hysterical is the first three digits of his phone number are, 666. So deserving of that as well. Gotcha asshole! Ta dah!

          • That’s hilarious Jeanm! satan’s secret PO box number is 66!!!! LOL!!! I found out when I took my name off all the utilities to our rental properties! LOL! The powers that be called their numbers right!!!1

    • This is a most interesting discussion about the male chump side of the financials of divorce. One thing I will say is that chumped fathers should stop drinking the 1950s koolaid that kids are always better off with their mothers. If CheaterMom had the kids’ best interest at heart, there wouldn’t have been an affair. If both parties are working, go for full custody or joint and physical and legal custody. Let CheaterMom do the weekend thing and pay child support. Just don’t assume kids are better off with their mothers, especially if there is likely to be an AP on the scene immediately. Nothing worse for kids than a parade of new partners on top of a divorce.

      • I totally agree. I’m not sure why my parents divorced when I was 5 or my sister was 1. I think she was very capable of cheating on him if her alcohol and drug use, and later criminal behavior was any measure of her honesty. I was raised by my dad and I have no idea what life I would lead today if I had her as my primary role model. A message to all you dads out there, fight the best you can for your kids. Sadly, unless their mom is a documented criminal, most get primary custody. You don’t have to be the “fun” parent to get the love of your kids. My mom was plenty fun when she took us to bars to meet with men. You just have to be the sane parent that they know will always be honest, fair, and loving. Any person who puts their child’s needs beneath their own wants is not a good parent.

        And, no, dad never taught me to sew and I can’t cook for crap, but I can shoot, wield an axe…well, you know the rest. Oh, and I raised two decent men.

        • Thanks everybody for all your awesome advice and the wealth of your experience! Loving me some chumps right now.

          • Oaktree, you said, “I don’t want to be rancorous and ugly, or screw over our children by paying more than we have to for lawyers, …” Sorry, Dear Fellow Chump, but that’s Chump-speak for “I’m not used to thinking about my needs or wants.” It is not ugly or rancorous to defend yourself mentally, emotionally, and financially against a Cheater, who has proven they don’t give a shit about you. Don’t worry about how she will perceive you. Get a kick-ass lawyer who will fight to protect you and when all the chumpiness slowly works its way out of your system post-divorce, you will be so glad you didn’t let your cheater pull even more shit over on you during your grief and shock period. Stay strong and lawyer up!!! We are rooting for you!!

            • Thanks, FindingBliss! I am taking your advice. You and all the chumps on here who have said the same thing are making me feel better about doing this.

        • Anne,

          Cooking, most people master that, but your skills sound like much more fun.

          (And, yes. Change your name to reflect your bad self (The two Anne’s is a bit confusing too.)).

          • But Ian, it’s because they want to master cooking, therefore they do. I tried for the first fifteen years or so of my marriage, but I enjoyed sitting at the dinner table and talking, laughing, throwing a spoonful of mashed potatoes (yes I’ve instigated food fights with my boys to the disgust of Fucktard, it will clean up). Basically I enjoy the experience of end of day family time. I can make the basics, but there are so many other things to do now that a sandwich suits me just fine. And no cooking required.

        • Anne, your story reminds me of my father, who caught his first wife cheating. He worked 2nd shift and lived in a 2nd floor apartment with her and their two young boys 1 and 2 (my half brothers). He suspected something was going on and one night before he left for work, he put baby powder down on the stairs to the apartment. He left work early that night and wouldn’t you know it. Men’s footprints were headed up to their apartment.

          Now mind you this was back in the late 1950s. My father, went to court and fought for custody of his boys. The woman he married before my mother, was a liar, a drunk and a cheat. While they were fighting for custody, he would support the boys by buying things they needed and having her sign the receipt. He knew that if he gave her money she would just drink it away and that strategy worked. He, way back then, was awarded full custody. Although I don’t believe she ever paid any child support at all. Shortly after, those boys never saw her again.

          Sad really, but they ended up with a much better Mother, with mine. She was wonderful. Things may not have been perfect, but there was always lots of love. So in tune with this article, being betrayed did fix my father’s picker and he made a better choice the 2nd time around.

  • When I read this article in the news last week, I wanted to fist bump the researchers who put it together. It was something I’ve been trying to tell myself since all this shit happened to the point where it felt like a silly platitude, but it feels good to have it reaffirmed by sience!

    If The 40 Year Old Toddler ever gets and keeps a new job, I bet the whore will be sweating like a… well like a whore in church whenever he mentions meeting (or even better, actually liking) female co-workers. And I hope she can dance pretty, though if he gave up his entire life to be with her, throwing her over for another side piece would probably be a breeze. But then the same can be said for her. She didn’t give up anything but a little thing like respectability, which she didn’t have much of in the first place.

    A friend of mine nailed it this weekend while we were talking about my baby. She asked what ex would do if, in some distant time from now, I met someone and the kids wanted to call him dad. I said I’d get a helmet and telescope, because the debris and pyrotechnics of ex’s head exploding would be seen from space. Even though I have no time/interest in dating now, she brings up a good point. Even if they don’t call him dad, which I’d support, I wonder how it will feel to a narc like him when someone else takes his place as a decent partner for me and decent parent for my little ones…

    And the Consequence Express keeps on rollin’…

    • Cakeless, my sister divorced her cheater husband when their daughter was 4. She remarried a few years later and her daughter calls her step-dad Pop. As her daughter grew up, she realized her bio dad was an asshole who really didn’t care about her so she stopped doing anything with him and eventually cut him out of her life. At times, she would call her step-dad Dad, because he has always been more of a father and role model for her than her bio dad ever was. She’s 23 now and completely NC with her bio dad. She’s blocked him everywhere she can but he still occasionally finds ways to get to her. He’s remarried for about the 4th time now and had his new wife email her (somehow tracked down her new email address) with some drivel about how she should get in touch with her dad, he needs info from her for his life insurance policy, etc. All manipulation tactics and lies and thank goodness she recognizes it.

      • Now there’s a scientific wonder–What is the mechanism by which these assholes donate sperm? Inquiring minds want to know ; ).

      • Oh yesssss, The Evil One’s OWhore/Owife, Mrs. Dumb-Ass, has two young kids younger than our DD. From what was told to me their dad is MIA or lives out of state, whichever…anyway, TEO has been raising her kids, and I have not yet asked, nor do I care if they call him “dad” or whatever variation.

        That being said, I am seeing a guy right now. I don’t know how serious it will get or anything, but I’m absolutely 100% certain that TEO will not have a damn thing to say about it. I cannot wait to tell him to STFU about wanting to know who is around DD, etc. because he damn sure hasn’t even introduced me to his OWife yet!!!

        I have no doubt that there will be a great disturbance in the Force though when he realizes that there is new “Mr.” in the household doing what he should have been doing!!!!

    • Oh I can’t wait for the day I find someone worth introducing to the kid and Narkles the Clown demands to meet them. Best “No” ever!

  • My ex left me for the (also married) neighbor 5 years ago. They now live together and are miserable. Unfortunately, many of the hints I get are from my kids coming home saying that they were fighting or ow stayed in her room and did nothing all weekend. Sucks for my kids but I’m glad she “won” him. That could have been me! I’m happier and healthier than I’ve been in 15 years. Yes, I’m single. That’s because I’m choosy and am very astute when meeting people. I’ve been able to thwart being conned by cheaters more than once. One of those times I quickly walked away, before even going on a date, from a man because I found out (through mutual acquaintances) was married with kids. About 6 mths later I found out in the news that he raped his affair partner. I’ll continue to be choosy and if I remain single then so be it. I’ll still be the winner.

    • Mim, ^^THIS^^ Coming out of a very dysfunctional family, all of their drama, all of ‘making your needs small’ all of their shit feels very regular. This is how life should be. What I am finding out being single is what it feels like to be in safe environment, a peaceful, cooperative, mutual, reciprocal environment with my friends whom I adore and who adore me. I need to integrate that feeling so that I don’t just intellecualize the red flags but I feel them when they create a shit smelling breeze. I need to be able to smell “au de narc” long before they get to ‘Hello’ That is learning to trust my gut. Anyway, I am avoiding turdballs both the potential date types and women too. So if I remain single so be it. I am still the winner.

      Lastly, just as a reminder getting rid of narcs have long lasting positive benefits. I have told these stories before but now it is happening in my fam. My horrible, mean, shitty, narc step father is 93 and failing. My mother who should have divorced him did not and endured years of abuse, neglect, silent treatment etc from him. Well now he is failing and my mother has not one real drop of compassion for him. She doesn’t want to be mean to him because that is not her nature, but really she is so DONE.

      I also know of other women who ended their lives with one of these shit heads. As they were failing into dementia and nursing care, the last cogent thing they said was, “Keep that fucker out of my room. I never want to see him.’ And both of them died before the narc.

      The price we pay for being near these people takes years off your life, your sanity. This study just starts to prove it up in a refereed journal article.

      So Rock on Mighty Chumps. He who lives well has the last laugh.

    • Mims

      After 41 years the Limited exited stage left for what he thought was a better deal. He met her on April 27th and after telling him she didn’t care that he was married he called her on May 3rd and moved IN with her weeks later.

      Whatever they couldn’t work on in a commited relationship with a loving partner they took with themselves. Their 2nd anniversary is tomorrow. And the winner is me.

      Talk about low mate value? They shop for a bargain and never get what they bargained for.

      • Right there with you!!!

        Mine moved out a year ago today, had her and her kids move in with him just a few months later, and they were married just 60 days after our divorce was final.

        The winner is me- I’m over here in MEH-topia, and he’s still a miserable fuck that will “never be happy” according to him.

        “Low mate value” = his stupid ass.

  • Love it! I think the way my counselor worded it was “I’d put him in about the bottom ten percent of relational partners. I’d put you in the top ten percent. This relationship is extremely off balance and that never goes well. You deserve to have your needs met”. He also brought up the poor statistics of anyone having an affair actually staying together long term. More because of the lack of relational partnering skills and having an intimate bond connection. It’s like they’re just not capable. Still. Years later. Completely mind boggling to me that someone can live a life that selfishly.

    • Isn’t it so helpful when your therapist says something like that to let you know that you’re on the right track? That you’re not the one who screwed up?

      I think like many chumps, I worked so hard to identify why my ex’s cheating was my fault. How did I screw it up? What did I do to have my ex stray? I looked really hard to find where I was to blame.

      One of the best, most helpful things I’ve ever heard was in therapy. After many sessions of almost disagreeing with my therapist and trying to get him to tell me that I was the problem, he simply said “You don’t believe this but trust me. Your ex is seriously broken. Run. Run as far away as fast as you possibly can, and be thrilled to no longer be tied to someone who will only sink you.”

      Not to be hyperbolic, but hearing this may have saved my life.

      I’m glad you got that kind of confirmation from your therapist. I’m certain I needed it.

  • This research matches my own experience.

    XH cheated on me, cheated on OW, cheated on wife #2, and is currently cheating on the OW who played a part in divorce #2.

    So when people ask me what *I* did wrong in the marriage, I chuckle and say, “I married a cheater.”

    Why is hindsight always 20/20?

    • So when people ask me what *I* did wrong in the marriage, I chuckle and say, “I married a cheater.”

      Thank you for this! That says it all!

      • Meg, who the heck would ask you what you did wrong in the marriage?!? For Pug’s sake, some people need their heads removed and replaced with a pumpkin.

        • Hahahaaaa, Fifi!!! I just had a flash of Ichabod Crane — the new face of people who ask that stupid question!!!!

  • My XH OW got her just deserts often and early (delivered by my hand via her (obviously germaphobe) then husband. She caught, or possibly gave, a nasty STI, to/by now my XH. Via someone else – she was outed and investigated at work, AND she got the compulsive lying cheater in her apartment, the “love nest”.

    Didn’t last? Awww, who would have guessed! Actually, I’m hoping the get married. They really deserve each other.

    • I hope you get your wish. I recently got mine. XW announced on Facebook a week ago that she is now engaged. I think I’m more excited about their wedding than anybody else. 🙂 She will be his problem from then on (no more alimony).

      • There really should be a Hallmark Card for, “Hey Whore, Thank you for remarrying so I no longer have to pay you a damn dime.”

      • Congrats, Marked711, on the nuptial news freeing you from paying CheaterEx any more of your money. May she cheat and be disordered on someone else’s dime. May your soul and mind be as cheater-free as your wallet.

  • I’ve often wondered why the person who willingly and often enthusiastically enters into an affair with a married person thinks that his/her life will be any different than the betrayed spouse. It seems to me they must suffer from a very bad case of “I am a Special Snowflake!”

    I also think that studies like this should eventually change the RI attitude so prevalent in our social structure of “forgive and pick me dance to keep the cheat”. If the spouse who was cheated on accepts the findings, he/she will make an informed decision to cut the losses with the cheater and move on to a better life. There would be fewer D days, because there would be fewer attempts at reconciliation. I believe I would not have been so Chumpy for so long if I had known more about alcoholism and cluster B personality disorders. I could have saved myself a lot of time and heartache if I had stopped trying to fix the cheater, and/or improve myself. Once I accepted that the cheater was going to continue to cheat, lie, blameshift, and gaslight — forever and ever in an unending cycle — I was free to go.

    The other thing about the affair partner who “loses” by ending up with the cheater — they have seen the methods the cheater used to weasel out of responsibility, and how they shifted money around and played legal games to further cheat the former spouse and children out of assets (including spending marital funds to entertain the love interest, and time away from the family that was not “work” related). The AP should be familiar with all the dirty tricks — and should expect nothing less from the cheater when the cheater loses interest in them. How long does that “Special Love That Justifies All Hurt to Others” really last? How does that “Special Sexual Attraction” last when you no longer enjoy secret getaways at hotels, and instead face a mountain of dirty laundry and bills? That economic responsibility thing can get quite expensive when the cat is out of the bag and the divorce court judge is dividing those assets and assigning child support. “Twu Luv”, indeed!

    • Well said, Portia. In my case though, he is taking it a step farther and blaming me for all the legal games, parental alienation, loss of everything. By the time the rich OW finds out what he truly is, she will be so invested she won’t walk away. Plus, she went through her own divorce where they grew apart and it was fairly amicable. She looks at it from those lens. Perfect for him. He will keep up that game as a kept “man.” Special snowflake – perfect.

    • I think the triangulation, sneaking around, and “I know something you don’t know” must be delicious varieties of cake. And when the cheating part is over and the APs are left alone, in their twosome, the relationship has already peaked and is on the downhill slide.

  • The Daily Mail’s title is especially obnoxious…”Being Cheated On Can Be GOOD For You….” That is like saying concentration camps can be good for you and pointing to a survivor like Victor Frankl, imo. Good can come from such evil. Doesn’t make the evil good, though.

    • So right, DM. It should read, “If you are cheated upon, LEAVING is good for you.” Hip hip, hurray!

    • THIS ^^^ That is exactly why I hate it when anyone says “it was for the better, you’re so much happier now”. I’m always happier when I’m not being abused. I should never have been abused in the first place.

      • “It was for the better.” Sure, the way your Solitaire game might improve if someone beats the crap out of you, breaks both your legs and leaves you in traction for 6 months.

    • My cheater told me right after D-day, ‘Look, you lost a bunch of weight, aged down about 15 years and your (hyperbonding) sex is more amazing than it has been in years…you should be thanking (the AP)!’.

      Yep, I am really grateful that some strange dude violated my marriage while I was working night shifts with our precious 3 year old was asleep in the next room. Thank YOU Mister!

    • DM, it’s definitely how you look at it! When I told X that he and his skank were perfect for each other, he thought it was a compliment.

      Sometimes, the dark comedy writes itself.

  • As hard as it can be leaving a cheater and gaining a life cant be anything but a positive step and a way up! Thanks tracy good post.

  • See, this is what I DO NOT GET on any level. When it all finally came to light, ex claimed to be “madly in love” with some whore he wanted to boink 20 years ago. So, what does he do? Even though the slut was local and available. He dates me for years (of his own free will, I guess), marries me, has children with me, cheats on me with the whore, and refuses to ever leave, even after I told him I was done with him.

    If he wanted this slut instead of me, all he had to do, AT ANY POINT, was to say, I don’t want you, I want whore. End of our story. In what alternate universe does this imbecile think dating this whore while married to me is going to end up well, for ANYONE. He has shown himself to be a a fucking cheater, his girlfriend has shown herself to be a whore. And for what? These ow and cheaters who don’t think each other are pieces of shit are just literally beyond my comprehension.

    • Cynthia, I feel your pain. I likewise found out that Satan had been both emotionally and physically having an affair with a woman he had dated long before we ever met. Instead, he continued dating me, asked me to marry him, had a child with me and THEN decided to sleep with his married co-worker (who is now also going through her own divorce so they can be together). All along, he is STILL in contact with the long-ago girlfriend! I just don’t get it. Why? What was the point? I was SO HAPPY before I met him. I had a freaking GREAT life and LOVED being single. I thought he loved me. And wanted to have a family with me. What was the point for him? Somebody to take care of him and his kids from his first wife? I guess. When I asked him why he asked me to marry him, his response was “you were so happy all the time.” Not I loved you. Never I loved you. I don’t think he ever actually loved me…..just the kibbles I provided him. What a waste. For him as well as me! At least I have a bright and beautiful 6 year old daughter who will be happy again one day!

      • blondebarrister, it just doesn’t compute, does it? I no longer care about why he did this on a personal level, but intellectually it just baffles me. Ex seemed to be an intelligent enough man. But his one main calling card was that he was “such a good guy “. He was obsessed with being viewed as a ” good ” person, and truthfully that was about all that really set him apart. He was probably above average intelligence, talented musically, OK looking, sorry in bed (lol), and average personality wise. The thing that drew me in was that I thought he had good morals and I could trust him. So, when he cheated his girlfriend knew he didn’t have good morals, wasn’t a good guy, couldn’t be trusted. So what was the draw there? They say ow are so twisted that they think these cheaters are a good catch. Like the ow in your case, she knows your ex is a worthless serial cheater. What can possibly counter that in these people’s minds? Guess we will never know… Like I said it just fascinates me on a psychological level.

        • Cynthia, same here. The skankboy is attractive for his age, ok in bed, average intelligence, personality ok, “such a good guy”, but what drew me in was what I thought he had, morals. Was I wrong! He is now the owhore’s “catch,”…..good luck with that. He has the maturity level of a teenager with anger issues! Shudder, I’m soooooo glad I’m away from that!!!

            • HELP needed–Have your new CL book? Head over to Amazon to leave a review asap. Old timers will remember Fiona-the-troll, who has left a 1-star review at the top of the list for Tracy’s new book, which needs lots of No votes on the “was this helpful” and to be replaced as the most recent review. And whack-a-troll begins……

              • what genre is there for the book? I looked in bestsellers and can’t find a category for it.

              • I’m always up for wack-a-troll, who is Fiona? No explanations really necessary, I’ll wack her anyway.

              • I can find her book, I was just trying to find out where she is on the charts.

              • Okay, who is this freak show. I went and tried to read her review but all I could hear was, “let’s have sympathy for why the cheater did what he did” and “the book is really unsympathetic.” I read two paragraphs and could no longer continue loosing brain cells on her drivel. She’s probably the same person who would see a child being sexually abused and try to figure out why the perpetrator was acting. Screw that, save the child and beat the shit out of the abuser. Thank You CL & CN!

              • Add me to the “no” list. Fiona has no idea how many people are rallying to the cause on behalf of Tracy…..look out troll!

              • I decided to check out other reviews written by Fiona and found in almost all cases she gives one star supported by psychobabble and bad grammar. One of the few five star reviews I found was this:

                “It is incredibly unfair how this nation of people were demonized.It is now obvious to me that the Jewish holocaust has been (overly) focused on to the exclusion of all other wartime atrocities.This excessive focus on the Nazi holocaust has been termed ‘holocaust propaganda’ and it has had an extremely detrimental effect on the psychological well being of the German nation.It has encouraged them to feel ashamed of their country and to hate themselves for being German.”

                Small wonder she sympathizes with cheaters.

              • Done, Tempest. Her comments really pissed me off. Troll.

              • Fiona? Fiona? You know you’re welcome to post here. I know you’re trolling Chump Lady. Drop in for a bit and let us debate you rather than hiding behind your cowardly Nazi-loving cheater-apologist reviews. What’s your story? Are you an OW, a cheater, a chump? A psychopath?

              • Fiona’s review of Mona Eltahawy’s book ‘Headscarves and Hymens: Why the Middle East Needs a Sexual Revolution’ is also pretty extraordinary (and generous in length). She then comments on a reply to her own comment, in case you have not got the point yet. I begin to get the sense that Fiona believes Chump Nation has eliminated the spiritual principle via the satanic use of snark and a form of reductionism which states that shitty behaviour is indeed shitty behaviour for which the shitty behaviourist is alone responsible. We are all damned.

        • Cynthia, I absolutely 100% agree. It does fascinate me on a purely intellectual level. WTF are these guys thinking?? Why oh why bother getting married if they are still hung up on somebody else? In my case, I don’t actually know if howorker knows about the long-time girlfriend….I kind of suspect perhaps not. But who knows. Not problem anymore. And Satan definitely played the “nice guy” card to the hilt! Everybody LOVED him. My friends. My parents. Above average intelligence. All of it sounds so similar to yours! I have to admit, although this all sucks ass, it really is nice having a place to share where others truly know the same pain….I still wouldn’t wish this on anybody!

      • Blondebarrister, He a liar and an extremely disordered…cheat! They make up a whole new reality to justify their shitty behavior. Do not believe a word of this BS! You are lovable and you are loved. Let him go off and continue to make a wreck of his life. All you need to do is just stand on the platform and watch the Karma Express roll right off that cliff! Stay strong and be the best damn blondebarrister the world has ever seen. Believe me, great things are in store for you!

    • Cynthia, it feels like hitting your head on a wall, to try to figure this stuff out, eh? At one point (while doing the sad-sausage routine to try to get me to ‘try again’) my ex said ‘but it can’t have just been selfishness, because it ended up bad for ME, too!’ To which I replied ‘it was short-sighted selfishness, only thinking about what you wanted in that moment, not thinking about consequences for anybody, even yourself’. But really, it was UNBELIEVABLY STUPID SELFISHNESS! He felt entitled to there being NO CONSEQUENCES to anything he wanted to do.

      Once I had figured out, years before Affair #2, that cheater narc didn’t actually much care if he was hurting me or the kids with his negativity, meanness etc, I had even spent quite a bit of time explaining to him how it would be ADVANTAGEOUS for HIM to be nicer to us. And when I found out about Affair #2, I had explained how it would be advantageous for HIM to stay in the family he had already built, because it totally COULD work, with frankly some minimal effort on his part. But noooooooooo, I’m not the boss of him, and he’s right about everything, and it’s all my fault anyway, and Schmoopie has the magic pussy that’s going to make him happy AND NICE forever.

      You can’t help stupid.

      But my picker is finally fixed, thank heavens.

      • Yep, KarenE, that magic pussy, lol. Ow had one as well.

        I sincerely believe anyone involved in cheating in any capacity is mentally disordered. They just don’t behave normally, or have any reasonable human logic. It needs to be added to the icd 10 or whatever the psych equivalent is.

        • When the hell will I learn not to Google things like “magic pussy” while at work? I just wanted to make a cute meme for all the chumps. Now I can’t un-see that shit. (Not joking. Don’t do it.)

          • Jeez, Ian, I could not stop laughing. This is delicious. Orgasmic, perhaps!

            At one time I found the word pussy offensive but now I LOVE it. It is like ‘fuck’, as it can be a noun, a verb, an adjective, etc. Relative to a chumps situation, it references, in addition to the obvious, the pus-filled lies of cheaters (pronunciation adjustment for pussy lies AND behaviour), the grey rock stare of pussy cats, the cowardly pussies that cheaters are, etc. I’m sure CN can expand on this.

            • Great pic, Ian!!

              Virago–after D-day, I have not found a single swear word I don’t now like. I’ve even had to make up some!

              The father in “A Christmas Story” is great inspiration (“my father wove a tapestry of obscenity that, as far as we know, is still hanging in space over Lake Michigan”):

          • Ian, this is the very serious side of me commenting. I am sure I don’t have to tell you but be very careful what you Google at work. Google whatever you like at home and even that is open to conjecture but work is a different ball game. You are intelligent enough to know the difference. I love the picture by the way. My ex husband had/has that grey rock stare down pat.

            • Thanks, Maree.

              I think I’m pretty computer-savvy. I use a number of script blockers, anonymized browsers, and I never look-up things on a corporate network or hardware.

              Jeep, (Tess?)

              Glad to hear you are taking care of you.

          • You crack me up. The pop-up ads that you get that reflect your browsing history must be hysterical.

          • Ian 🙂 Love the meme!!! …as satan would say ‘Meow’ …asssssshhhhoooollleee!

            …oh…this is Jeep…I couldn’t log on or anything…so I tried Tempest’s suggestion…it worked…but my identity changed completely…crappy wordpress!

            • Jeep, say it ain’t so. I like your user name. Anne is to common and my middle name so I’ve been thinking about changing it to “Annie get your gun.” What do you think?

              • You are just Awesome Anne!!!! 😀 I think whatever makes you happy! Anne Get Your Gun 😀

                I appreciate you and Ian’s advice…and I am having my tech guy set up another camera. …someone (in a diesel) pulled into my drive last night around 2 AM…I was awake cause it was storming and storms make Beau cry like a small child…poor guy… So, fortifying my haven and will make a ‘video’ report if it proves to be satan playing devil’s advocate on my property. Thank you Anne 😀

              • I am 😀 Got my equalizer ready on the bedside table and Beau keeps his teeth sharp and his bark at the ready 😀

                Love you Anne!!!!!

              • Love you too Jeep. I got the email confirmation today about Book Party. So excited!

              • Oh I wish I could go! It would be soooo awesome to meet everybody and STAND together! Empowering!

              • Coolness Anne and Chumps!

                …my comment to ms. fiona…

                I am 3 years out of the ‘circular thinking’ (brought on by my cheating narc’s blame) aka ‘untangling the skein’ and I am no longer ‘triggered’ by memories of the ‘events’ (read abuses) of my narc x. I am not bitter and wish no harm to x, I am happy and free of the abusive, controlling relationship x tried to keep me in. …they only name calling going on in my life is the ‘name’ I choose for x – to protect x’s identity.
                Ms. Fiona me thinks thou dost protest too much 🙂 Chumplady’s open, honest, no nonsense advice has saved me from years and years of useless therapy and wasting my life on someone that will not and, quite possibly cannot change, yet wanted us to stay married.

                …you think they will delete it or let it stand???? 😀 Me thinks she is an asshole too! 😀

      • My STBX thinks the whoremat will “make him happy” too. He’s of the 80/20 group. He’s 80% happy with this life, his wife as BFF, a condo we bought together after saving for a million years, my humor, good looks, compatibility as people. He wants more cake. The 20% unhappiness is that I didn’t want him enough. Probably because he was an emotionally distant asshat for the last several years. Hard to want to fuck someone when they aren’t being very nice to you. So now he’s found a real connection to OW (the connection of his dick and her magical fuck hole) and apparently that 20% is enough to blow up my entire life for. I’m pretty sure that someone you’ve been texting for 5 months and fucked twice is your real dream girl!

    • Cynthia . . . CAKE and the thrill of deception. MoFaux got dumped by Dingleberry a couple of months after DDay. Now he has no one to cheat on. His life must seem not worth living!

      • Right, Virago. I get the whole cake thing, and you are right.

        But I’m still puzzled by the cheaters who claim to want a legitimate relationship with the whores but stay married. What disconnect is there that says “guess I’ll contact my true love today and give it another go” but stays married and the whore knows he is married with children . It didn’t work out with ex and the whore but you know maybe if he had actually left me first it might have. It’s just irrational, and fascinating.

        • I’m apparently seldom right, so that was so unusual and sweet to hear!! Thx for that!

          A. They are not rational. Entitled, greedy, self centred, not rational.
          B. Cake means affair PLUS spouse. ‘Don’t I look shiny and special, Cynthia?’ Image is everything.
          C. There can never be too much cake/kibbles. Not ever.

          • You are welcome, Virago! I read that some ow think cheaters are good relationship prospects cause they have been in a relationship and know how to “committ”. Say what, you can’t make this stuff up.

        • If I found a Genie’s lamp, captured a Leprechaun or gained favor with a Magical Cat, my first wish would be to send all cheaters to colonize some distant planet where surveillance cameras are set up everywhere to watch them lie to each other and hurt one another. It would make a really fun reality show to entertain us chumps back on Earth. Oh yeah, I would only send them beans to eat for every meal. That is what they deserve!

        • Yep, nomoreskankboy, the No. 4 Karma arrived ahead of schedule, hit a couple of deserving wackadoodles and remains in good service.

          The demand is so great that routes have been expanded.

          Every bus has wrap adverts for CL’s new book.

          Commuters, like No. 4 Express, have been added to decrease stopping times and increase hits at higher speeds.

          Recently minibuses were employed for those hard to reach covert narcs.

  • And what’s really sick is I think the nasty bitch was “flattered” by my whoring ex sniffing around her like a fucking dog in heat. Who in their right mind is flattered by this??

    • Oh, I’m sure Mrs. Dumb-Ass thinks she hit the jack-pot with my ex!!! He’s about to be 38, she’s about 27, with two young kids, former chump herself, but she thinks she’s “special” because the ex- left our marriage of 13 years to be with her and support/raise her two kids??? Winner winner chicken dinner x 2!!!

      • X3. Scarlett O’whore has two small children and had two married men fighting over her. Fucktard apparently won. Or youngest just turned 21. Such a dumbass, words fail.

  • When someone asks why my husband and I divorced, I usually reply someone along the lines of “none of your business”. Now I will just answer, “Ex had a low mate value.” Awesome!!!

      • Going through my divorce, I found this quote to be motivating: “In the face of overwhelming odds, I’m left with only one option, I’m gonna have to science the shit out of this.”

        (I realize science of psychology is different than science of legal challenges, but … Yay science!”

    • Evolutionary psychologists were the first to link cheating and narcissistic behavior: Buss & Shackleford (1997), JOURNAL OF RESEARCH IN PERSONALITY 31, 193–221.

      • Sorry, Tempest.

        As soon as I posted that I realized I sounded like a dolt. I have a personal bias against EP because of some of my (admittedly layman’s) research into gender-differences and the EP studies around it. I will read your cite. I trust your opinion much more than the “scientist” I just wasted the last 10 years of my life with. She convinced me that “social” scientists aren’t as *good* as “real” scientists. I obviously need more re-programming.


        • Thanks, Ian. EP doesn’t have to be sexist (or pro-cheating), especially if one talks about behavioral predispositions (rather than behavioral mandates). We have, after all, also evolved a lofty prefrontal cortex.

          And although I admit not all EPs make this argument, in species with altricial (helpless) youth, cheating is counterproductive. Abandoning the young one already has to go hookup and spread one’s seed leaves all the young vulnerable. No evolutionary benefit is conferred unless those youth reach adulthood and have progeny themselves.

        • And I think we can now view most of what MatchGirl said with suspicion, amiright?? #lowmatevalue

          • Tempest – I was JUST thinking about #LowMateValue just as you did! LOL! Today is an awesome day, and the report confirms each Chumps’ own research projects on the subject. I just learned on Saturday that the x-douchebag is STILL squatting in a former rental property that was lost to his bankruptcy last July. This makes 12 months of squatting, just spending his time trolling around for crotch until he finds out next week if he gets to go to jail for burglary and assault and battery. Yep – he got “mad” that while he was already cheating on his married soulmate for which he blew up our 23 years together, she was ALSO cheating on him! So after she kicked him out to be with her new victim, he beat up the new guy, also married with kids. I found everything out through court documents from my lawyer. What a giant, toxic, cesspool.

            Meanwhile, I’ve just finished my second half marathon, and am loving the solitude and peace in my head and home. I get to watch my grown son and his son become amazing people, and I get to give all the best of me to my high school-aged daughter who he is court ordered to stay away from now. We’re SO much better off and truly blessed.

            I’ve said it before on this site: I’d go through the hell and pain of DDay and afterward, if it means getting a healthier emotional, mental, spiritual, and physical life. I’d also do it again for even just the potential for a real and loving relationship later. This is the first time I’ve been single and away from that douchebag since age 16, but I’m learning more each day that can and is very, very good.

            Life DOES get better once we leave the cheater, and I hope all the best for each of us Chumps. Thank you for sharing this amazing message with us, Tracy!! Xoxo!

              • Anita – I know, right?! Plus, this research confirms what Chumplady tells us ALL the time: the OW or OM didn’t win a prize. They got a sparkly dog turd. Until they’re not sparkly anymore, which thankfully, in my situation, they BOTH learned at the same time. LOL!! Yep – you got it. #LowMateValue is right! ?

              • Awww – thx, girl! I just love reading about and laughing over the hilarious and intellectual things you write on here, Tempest. You’re awesome. Too awesome for the douchebag cheater in your rearview mirror, THAT’S for sure. Xo!! ?

              • I second what KFMM said. In fact, all the chumps on this site are pretty damned awesome. I’d spend a week on an island with any one of you. Ooh, Chump Island!!! New reality show. “The plaaane, the plaaane!”

            • Hahaahaaaa@ “the plane! the plane!” taking us all away to ChumpIsland!!!! TOOT TOO Karma Bus!!!

              I know what you mean, Anita. This is longest I’ve been single in 24 years (EXH#1 & TEO were back-to-back), and it feels awesome!!!

              • I’m in……Where do I sign up?!?!?!

                LOVE all ya all…..

                Forge on, you amazing people….ForgeOn!

  • That was worded wrong. .. she got her just deserts, often and early, in part, by my telling her then husband, a germaphobe, the issue.

  • It was/is the most brutal experience. A loss of “love” and life as you know (illusioned) it to be. A loss of assets, stability, structure, well being and much more. In all that you are forced to forge on forged to overcome, forced to make changes, forced to set boundaries, forced to push through the obstacles, forced to look at you, forced to self partner, forced to self love. When you hit bottom and fight your way up from the inside out you can only be a better person. And imagine, chumps were awesome to begin with, after such horrors we are unstoppable. We gain more value over life, realize how strong and fortunate we are. The cheater just spreads it toxins like a virus never to heal. The OW or OM that won the cheater when it implodes on them, I hope they too find their way here and heal and grow just as we are.

    Society accepts this all too much and the pain and destruction is not viewed by society as a whole. Chumps are now banning together and saying enough. Maybe future generations will improve, who knows. The disordered/cheaters will always be out there but if we ban together enough maybe they will prey on their own and leave good honest people out of there world of horrors.

    What doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger. Rock on Chumps and just watch the show with your ex and the one who won them.

    • JackiesDone, YES! I love it. I’ve done all of those things and finally feel like I could start looking for a high value mate…but I’m too happy with my life right now to date! My picker is slowly rebooting and getting smarter and more efficient. ANd my son is getting the best of me….

      • Conniered, yep, “my son is getting the best of me,” and you are getting the best of YOU!!”

      • Conniered – Mine too! He has one childhood and given he is already 10, I have but a few years left to invest in the foundation of building a man that will serve him the rest of his life.

        Personally, I could use a few years “off” of the energy a relationship with another person takes and just enjoy my friends, family and privacy for a change.

        Relationship does not equal happy. And, single does not equal lonely.

        • And, I’m having fun taking golf lessons and getting my motorcycle license and rediscovering what gives me JOY. ‘Cuz it sure wasn’t Mr. Sparkles and his chaotic life.

        • I totally agree! I never thought I’d be here NOT wanting to date anyone. But life is FULL and FUN! RIght…relationship does not equal happy. And I am not alone. I have my family and friends. Lord, I love quiet time again! And I’m doing some art (for my home decor and pure enjoyment). Heck, I’ve started writing a bit of poetry!!! I am taking care of my body. And I”m drinking red wine. 🙂

          Oh! And I am taking my boy to a WWE Live show in two weeks!! We are so pumped!!!!

          • Hey, conniered, I’m writing poetry too! It’s pretty much all about one subject, but when I get all that out of my system I look forward to tackling other subjects too. Have fun at the WWE with your son!

        • “Relationship does not equal happy. And, single does not equal lonely.”
          ^^THIS^^ is so true.

          When you no longer allow your ex to occupy your headspace and start concentrating on your future without him/her, you really begin to live again. It was worth every painstaking step to free myself! Absolutely no regrets and no looking back!!

    • Jackie you are absolutely right!
      I am sitting back right now because the other shoe will soon drop.
      Can wait for exh, 53 and his 23 yr old grandfather fucker, have the baby in like four weeks!
      It gives me such joy that the daddy issued owhore is becoming a mom! And grandpa becoming a dad at 53.
      I bet she had been checking his phone constantly. Lmao For that how I caught those two scumbags.
      The thought of it is so disturbing! Peter pans fantasy is now becoming a real life reality!
      So that dog sniffing douchebag will have fun seeking out another whore, while she is healing and trying to take care of a newborn baby and the neglected grandfather, daddy. Or perhaps they will have another child right after this one?,
      Stay tuned for the sequel!

      • I’m wondering if the grandfather daddy will live to see his kid graduate from high school!

        • NMSB, funny you should right about if grandpa will see kid graduate. My Ex had a heartattack at 50, so with the stress level the baby will bring. Time tells all!

        • OMG, that’s an hysterical term: “the grandfather daddy”. I laughed and laughed at this one! !

      • LOL @”grandfather daddy”!!!

        OK, this nickname did bring up something with my family…my dad– a serial cheater— married his long-time girlfriend, telling my mom (during one of their yet-again ‘getting back together /hook-ups” phase) that he had to “give up good sex for money” when he married his g.f.

        He became a father again at the ripe old age of 50 — my son was about 4 months old, I had a couple nieces and nephews between the ages of 3 months to 4 years old, so we older kids all called him “Pop-Pop-Dad” he would get super pissed!!!! LOL

        He died at 56 of cancer. Days before he died, I was there and one of his oldest friends came over to see him. His friend asked him, “Do you feel angry at this disease? Feel robbed of the rest of your life”? My dad answered without missing a beat, “Nope. I have no regrets about anything I have ever done in my life”. I was stunned speechless… I have no doubt that my ex- would have the same sentiments!!! ASSSSSSHOLE!!!

  • Ah, yes. I woke up this morning thinking about how much better the quality of my sleep is these days now that I am rid of the verbally abusive cheating asshole. Life is so much better! And now I read this wonderful post! Sunny days ahead!

    • I agree Flowerlady – I sleep so much better now too without the crazy making. I also had some health issue that were not going well but have either subsided or gone away since ex is out of my life. So much better now!

      • It’s the silliest thing – but I had essentially oral thrush on my lips. I’ve had little issues with fungal infections before (under the sports bra or the like), but once I was in the duck-lining-up phase of making this divorce happen, I was so stressed that I got a fungal thing on my lip I could NOT get rid of. I tried everything for like 3 months and was about to get a prescription for the big guns… then last week STBX moved out. I kid you not, within 24 hours (and purchase of some vasaline lip therapy) my lips were like 95% better. It was like a switch flipped and body finally relaxed enough to fight off this infection. I have never seen such a fast turn around in my life.

  • These studies also reinforce that we should run out of the burning house!!!

    The few available reports examining relapse rates for sex addicts are as
    high as for other types of addicts.

    In one study (Magness, 2009, 2012), among 100 self-identified sex addicts, 87% reported at least one return
    to previous bottom-line behaviors
    The author defines a “slip” as a one-time
    event that happens unexpectedly; a “relapse” is a prolonged move back
    to compulsive sexual behavior.

    In another study, (Schneider et al., 2000),
    ninety-eight percent of married sex addicts attending 12-step sex addiction programs reported they slipped at least once, and many had had multiple

    This research helps me focus again whenever I start thinking that the OW and the wasband are super happy. She got a man who cheats on his wife of 20 years, justifies all his lies and shit with Godtalk and never looks back. That’s her prize.

    • Gaby:
      You are so right. The saddest part of the “Godtalk” portion is that my two daughters will probably NEVER step foot in a church, based on their “holy roller” father and his sanctimonious actions. They both point to him as an example of why they should NOT go to church.

  • I’m a big fan of statistically relevant data. This result bolsters what I’ve read and been told anecdotally by both therapists and family lawyers: the cheating spouse almost always ends up with a life that is worse-of when measured by the quality of his/her relationships, personal growth, etc.

    Some may be quick to do a “well, duh!” reaction on this, which is understandable, but bear in mind that common sense is not the same as the scientific method, and even the most obvious hypothesises need to be properly tested.

    • And common sense so often seems to say ‘your marriage will be stronger because of the affair! and you have to be a better spouse so your cheater won’t cheat any more!’ these days. I’m very glad to have the stats to back this up.

      Low mate value indeed!

      • Common sense does NOT say anything of the kind, it screams “kick the asshole out”. The RIC says it over and over again.

  • CL was ahead of a scientific study, leave a cheater gain a life philosophy is once again confirmed.

    Really…does common sense not show that it doesn’t take a scientific study to see that cheaters and their cheater partners are the losers in actuality.

  • I love the part where the cheated on lives a better life. I am seeing it in my own world. I am now the one living a free life with very few responsibilities, peace, calm, fun. Skankboy is living with his owhore with her 15 yr old daughter and 10 year old son with all the responsibilities that go along with that crap. I’m now living the life he had and he is living the life I had. Life is good!

  • MoFaux is so far outside 2 standard deviations on the ‘mating value’ curve that he will never see the inside of that bell.

    He is a ding-a-ling and she was a ding-leberry.

    Thanks, CL, you the best! And I will forever treasure the ‘mating value’ reference from Dr.Morris et al as I continue to plot my value driven life.

  • So – I make the mistake of trying to tell #4 about Mr. Sparkles history of online hookups etc and am unceremoniously told to “stop protuding my insecurities into the realm of her home.” This, after she has seen that he has had an ad on AFF throughout their entire “relationship.”

    After reading this, I will stand back and watch… even if it means nailing my feet to the floor.

    Why does the OW really think she is better and it will be different????? Are they pathological too????

    • Are ow pathological? Without a doubt. Who else would want to be in a relationship with someone who is already “taken”? Who else would be content with a lover who lies and does shitty things to someone else? A really defective oerson, thats who.

    • “Why does the OW really think she is better and it will be different????? Are they pathological too????”


      Today’s answer to today’s crazy cheater and crazy OW question.

      • Agreed! The OW thinks the cheater will treat her differently. Come on, really? He’s the same guy with the same issues that he’ll be carrying over into the next relationship. It will be the same dynamics, except the OW is likely to be just as insecure if not more insecure than the cheater. After all, it takes a pretty insecure and desperate person to go for a married man. Two insecure people with major issues getting together. It’s just a recipe for disaster and a matter of time before things go nuclear and blow up. I read somewhere that dating a married man is like owning a cheap imitation purse. It looks good at first, but then you realize things get downgraded real fast, and you end up with a shitty product. Someone else can have my fake ass purse, cause I don’t want it no’ mo’!

        • ^^^THIS^^^ “except the OW is likely to be just as insecure if not more insecure than the cheater.”

          This would certainly explain her anger and her projection of “insecurities”. She’s in year two with Mr. Sparkles (my divorce still pending)… surely by now she’s seen a few things that don’t add up. But, her own insecurities and fragile ego won’t let her admit she’s made a mistake. She wants to walk away the “winner” after losing her first husband.

          Winner, winner – Chicken Dinner… she can have him.

          Once a cheater, always a cheater… it’s science!

      • The AP believes all the bad shit the cheater tells them about you AND they think they are special. What goes around comes around.

  • Well in my life (case study, n= 1), my picker went from broke to super if my current boyfriend (also a Chump) is considered. He’s not only mighty, but kind, smart (handsome, sexy – your basic dreamboat).

    This is only an association, no assumptions on causality. But my picker is really much different now…

    I had been doing active and deliberate self-improvement for years and getting nowhere (picker-wise), Chump Lady was the start of my mental revolution.

    Let the decolonization continue!

    (Apologies to CN for bragging about my awesome boyfriend, but want you all to know that if I could fix my picker and get lucky – anyone can)

    • NMM, not bragging, inspiring! Go you! Can’t wait for STBX to become X so I can move on with my life. Sometimes I get scared that at 31 my life is over and will never have love and family I so want
      for my future, while 45 yo STBX and 23 yo OW sail off into the sunset. Reading about their chumps who have come out on the other side and are happy gives me hope. So keep on bragging and spreading the hope.

      • I’m right there too. I’m 32 STBX left me for a 33 yo whoremat ( didn’t even affair up! She’s such a train wreck!) I know I’m youngish and cute and have an awesome personality (which is why STBX wants a skank? He even told me “I’ll never have what we had again”) I just fear that I’ll be damaged and sad forever and never be able to find a real guy to be with.

  • My stbx is not likely to move on from the ow because: (1) he is physically in poor health; (2) she bought a house in FL and he always wanted to live there; (3) she has a pension he is very excited about; (4) it’s twu luv since she has been pining for him since high school (40 years ago); (5) he has no place to go back to- the door is finally shut here. Even though I loved the article and I believe it to be true, he will stay with her because he has no choice now unless he cheats on her (but see the above reasons why he may not). I am hoping for the day that I am happier because I am still so sad. It would at least be some justice if they don’t stay together but we are not in contact, so I will never know. (My son won’t talk to me about him.)

    • I hope you can find some comfort in the fact that the arrangement your STBX has with the OW is a recipe for misery. For both of them. It will not be long before he resents his dependence on her and starts to devalue her in order to make himself feel superior. Even if he doesn’t cheat on her, he will make her life a living hell.

      • I agree with Other Kat. Lostandfound, you’ve got a great big hug from me. I am just coming out of the constant sads after 18 months. And my ex hooked up with his “twu wuv,” an old friend, on Fuckbook. So I feel your pain, thinking because of all those factors, they will be happy ever after. But I don’t think they will. I think it will play out like Other Kat said. Take courage, and try to focus on yourself more and them less. Some day you will be able to say “not my circus, not my clowns” and mean it.

    • LostandFound,
      So what’s better? Having my cheater/OW’s relationship fall apart? (so I am immediately vindicated…he’s actually told me their relationship fell apart…but he’s a liar, so yeah). Or having him serve a life sentence in a long term relationship with OW who is a serial cheater, liar, and no doubt character disordered narc. Thinking about the latter scenario as natural consequences for them…Is it like serving life in prison? A lifetime of unhappiness of their own making? So if they break-up – vindication. If they stay together – even bigger vindication?!. So win-win? (FYI I vacillate daily between thinking what he did is absolutely irredeemable to thinking I made a vow – “in sickness and health”, and very clearly he is sick. I shall see how my request for a post-nup goes before coming to a definitive confusion).

      • Honestly brightness I think what’s better is when you start wondering what the best things are that can happen to you. In the end, even if the karma bus hits our cheaters/and OW, backs up and rolls over them a few more times-how does it seriously improve your life?

        Don’t get me wrong, I probably wouldn’t be able to stifle a giggle if I heard that the karma bus visited my ex, but I guarantee that finding out would be purely by accident and I wouldn’t plan any big celebrations over it.

        I think that’s when we truly reside in meh. I am on the train that’s headed in that direction. It hasn’t pulled up and let me off in the station quite yet, but I know I will get there eventually and one of the signs letting me know that’s its my permanent residence is when I don’t give a squirt about cheater ex anymore.

        That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.

  • So has anyone commented on that daily mail article and left a link to CL/CN/new book? I haven’t had a chance to read through all these comments or the article/comments, but seems like that would be an ideal place to further the CN revolution!

  • lostandfound, I agree with Other Kat, “A recipe for misery.” She has him by the balls. He will have to eat shit sandwiches in order to stay in that relationship. SHE holds the power there. How long will he be willing to eat said shit sandwiches to maintain that relationship. The skankboy lives in owhores house. He’s a narc, control freak, with anger management issues. Before NC, he said he’s happy with her, maybe I need to get used to the kids being around. “I don’t mind helping with buying the kids stuff, but I’m not going to support them.” BTW, he’s a cheap mother fucker. She saw he was working part time, has a harley, a MG sports car and a home in RI. She sees money, but what she doesn’t know is most of that came from my financial help. He’s 61 years old this month….I don’t know how old she is, but she has two kids a 10 year old and a 15 year old. You think she’s going to be around long with a cheapskate, dried up old man? Really?

    • Thank you all. Didn’t see it coming but he ended up being a narc, an alcoholic and a cheater big time with anger issues. He gets to retire now and I will have to work forever because, as you can guess, I got totally screwed in the divorce because he has a cash business. I do have peace. I am working through this. I think I would be okay if he moved on to another woman, but it has been this pos woman from the very start (8 years!) so I really want it to blow up in their faces. I am working on getting to meh and I hope that someday I can find a partner who is worthy of me!

  • Well good luck to crapweasel and narcissa-california…. two narcissistic cheaters: what could possibly go wrong? /snark/

    I’m still working on the get a life part, but several years out of the maelstrom, I can see that I’m so much better off away from the rat bastard and his nasty rodent family.

  • Fellow chumps,

    The news report from the dating world is fairly positive. I disappeared for a couple months….life is blooming. Took a new job, dating, getting out into the world, was present for the birth of a child this weekend.

    I am happily online dating,and while I have always had good narc-dar, its now honed down to a gut level. Not in the commitment area yet, obviously, but have one person I am seeing (wow, reciprocity is fun and wonderful), and another who I am having VERY serious conversations with. And there is flirtation, fun, etc. Its really great to remember there is an entire world out there of people who are attracted to me, and I can choose what it is I want/need, and those are valid choices.

    Its so gratifying to read the scientific research. My mother’s second marriage to my stepdad is in an entirely different league than her marriage to my father, who is a clinical narcissist, among other things. The difference in their relationships, the love and intimacy my mother has with my stepfather, and her happiness as a woman are all in line with the common wisdom about cheaters. Its so validating that there is research to support my own experience, the experiences others have, and some great folk wisdom.

    Chumps, it REALLY does get better. My residence in the land of Meh is firmer, after four years living in my solitude. I’ve been able to discuss the heartbreak of my previous partner with someone who wants to consider partnership with me. I’ve been able to articulate needs, wants, boundaries, and expectations clearly and concisely. I’ve engaged in some conflict and resolution in different patterns than before.

    No lies, there is still some pain and the memory of the heartbreak. I am not a huge Oprah follower, but I have always appreciated her advice that once you are really ready, real partnership can truly show up for you. It seems in my life there is a process of unfolding, and trusting in that process. Had I skipped that phase of grieving and dealing with the betrayal, I would not be as deep and compassionate, or as happy as I am now.

    Thanks for the post today, CL!

  • I think I just got blinded by science. What will the RIC do now that we have the actual facts on our side? I bet they double down…it’s easier to ignore the science you don’t like…LOL…

    • Since they are opportunist sharks and charlatans to start with, they will just change their business model to a ‘Dump-Him-Chump’ model. Probably with all of the expertise and training that they now employ in RIC… that would be none.

  • Mine bonded over their cheating. They have more in common than their “goody goody” spouses.

    Yes the OW got the booby prize in my ex, but she still get quality time with my young children that I raised single handedly while they whored around…so the glib vagueness of the saying the OW “loses” is kind of lost on me.

    • Yes. This. The idea of being apart from my kids half the time makes me incredibly sad. And mad. And feeling hopeless about the injustice. Whether they end up spending time with OW (if he stays with her/gets back together with her) or whether they are just with him. It’s bullshit. And yes it makes the whole leave a cheater, gain a life, seem like a hollow victory. Because my kids are everything to me. Everyone is a loser in this game they play.

    • The article is about adult relationships, not family breakups. Here is the silver lining. Your kids will look to you for everything – if you are “recovered” and happy, you are showing them the positive way to live.

  • Tracy – This is your best post yet!! It’s so empowering and validating to read what you posted. If people read more articles like this, they’d probably be less likely to stick it out with the cheater and tolerate abuse. They’d probably end things sooner, knowing the cheater is damaged goods and can go continue his miserable existence somewhere else, and leave chumps in peace. Loved every work in your post!

      • Thanks Ian, I don’t think I’ve mastered the blog ways yet ha ha ha I can’t figure out how to subscribe unless I make a comment – so “following” it is. Sometimes I just like to read – but some days I do actually post. Thanks for the warm welcome.

        • Kimberly,

          I gathered as much. I’ve seen your posts for at least the last three months since I got here. There is no other way to follow a post. And, as you know, the best way to read a day’s comments is by subscribing.

          I wanted to respect you wish to remain under the radar, but I wanted to say howdy. Maybe write a letter to Chump Lady as an introduction to the rest of us. That’s how I was welcomed to the club.

          Stay mighty!

  • It’s was already proven by Chump Nation. Nice to see science catch up. Kinda like gravity and suddenly recognizing the enormity of the event when the apple fell from the tree.

    Thanks Tracy. You are my Newton. Great article.

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