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UBT: “Respect my relationship with the OW”

respect

Dear Chump Lady,

I’ve been divorced from my lying cheating ex since January 2016 after I found out he was cheating on me with his client. At the time we lived in a different state and shortly after our separation (June 2015), he moved in with his ladylovewhore and I moved back home to the great state of Texas.

I took our 10 year old daughter with me so now he lives 2,500 miles away and sees her once a month and every other holiday. He has made zero attempts to move back home to partake in the raising of his daughter, but has so much to say when it comes to my parenting.

I am not going to lie, I don’t sugarcoat this relationship to my daughter and my disgust with his behavior and his affair partner’s behavior. So, last weekend he brings our daughter back to me not having done a lick of homework, which didn’t sit well with me. Bright and early the next day, I get this email from the cheater ex:

I spoke to our daughter last night and in the future will go over any and all homework assignments needed to be completed when I have her for the weekend. This apparently upset you and you caused significant stress on our daughter’s last night, that wasn’t necessary. I would appreciate you addressing these items with me only and not in our daughters’s presence. I think you blew a small misunderstanding into something stressful for our daughter. I’ll try to set up the family wizard app this week and that should help improve our communication between us.

OW is part of my life and she’ll be part of our daughter’s life as well. OW will never be her mother, but rather a positive influence on her and someone she can trust. Despite your negative attitude and antics, we are building a life together and only want the best for our daughter. I would appreciate you respect my relationship with OW when it comes to your interactions with our daughter and try not to cause undo stress with her.”

I love that he mentions “trust.” I’m sorry but trust from a woman who fucked a married man is a little too late. I wouldn’t trust her as far as I can throw that snake and him. I blame him 90% because he is a cheater more than once during our marriage. Second time I just had the courage to step away. He is lonely living in another state with this whore and lashes out at me on a daily basis.

LoneStar

Dear LoneStar,

Just file this one under “The Unending Punishment of Breeding with a Fuckwit.” What’s with part-time, recreational parents and homework, anyway? Why can’t these people do the damn book reports?

Look, I know it’s a suggestion from the Fuckwit — but do take him up on that scheduling software. You need a paper trail about what is in the best interest of your child, and when he fails to do right by her — like not getting the homework done, DOCUMENT. By way of validation — yes, it is upsetting when your child doesn’t do their homework. It’s doubly upsetting when the parent in charge of Not Super Fun Parenting Things, like homework supervision, fails to do a simple job. Moreover, I get the unmitigated gall this guy has to fuck up his teeny, tiny responsibility, and then call YOU out for hurting your daughter.

Oh me? The person responsible for 99.99999 percent of all the parenting? The person who raises this kid? Schlepps child to school/sports/girl scouts/birthday parties/grandparents/emergency rooms? Me here with the minus zero sick leave for nursing the kid’s stomach flu? The parent who gets to be Mom AND Dad 24/7 except for the occasional weekend you deign to take her? Because you’re too busy CHEATING and taking up with some new fool immune to your lies? The parent here who has a PERFECT HOMEWORK RECORD and plays the heavy on the book reports, even thought I hate “Where the Red Fern Grows”? Me? I suck? YOU HAD ONE JOB TO DO. ONE! I have 15,678,993 jobs. Simultaneously. Sick or healthy. Whether I feel like it or not. Every day. The score Sir is 15,678,993 to 0. Shut the fuck up

See how easily I just wrote that speech? It’s not hard to tap the deep wells of resentment when parenting with a fuckwit. I get it. Here’s what I want you to do.

1.) Parent your way. You have your child the majority of the time. You WIN. Your ex is a fuckwit, but he’s a part-time fuckwit parent. Be the sane parent. Let go of what goes on at his house, because you don’t control it. Before your daughter leaves, remind her of her homework obligations. If you want to go the extra mile, get her a phone and text her these sorts of reminders. (Yes, I helicopter parent. And I have a nice son at college to prove it.) But remember, at the end of the day, the homework responsibilities are HERS. She will learn from natural consequences when she goes to class unprepared. Use the scheduling software and then LET GO. Document his fuck ups. If you have to go back to court, you need that documentation.

2.) Stop venting to your daughter about her dadI don’t sugarcoat this relationship to my daughter and my disgust with his behavior and his affair partner’s behavior. You’re allowed to tell your kids why you’re divorced (Dad cheated on me with OW). But don’t editorialize. Don’t slop your emotional crap onto your kid or make her carry your pain. She has enough of her own. She knows he sucks. But he’s still her dad and she deserves to figure that relationship out for herself. Abide by the court order and let go of the rest. (Unless he is endangering her in some way. I hope this goes without saying.)

3.) Model resiliency. You know what says “I’m disgusted with your father?” best? Being a totally badass mother who knows her worth. Gaining a new, peaceful life. Getting the damn book reports done without his help. Show your daughter what an independent, take charge, don’t-have-time-for-fuckwits mom looks like.

Remember, every time you get “disgusted” and lose your shit with him, he LOVES it. It’s kibbles and centrality. Don’t feed fuckwits kibbles.

Now then, let’s put some of that crazy email through the Universal Bullshit Translator, shall we?

OW is part of my life and she’ll be part of our daughter’s life as well.

The price of admission for my daughter to see me is tolerating my fuckbuddies.

OW will never be her mother, but rather a positive influence on her and someone she can trust.

Because nothing is so wholesome as a Twinkie who sleeps with married men. Twinkie is to positive influences what lead is to the Flint water supply. #trustme

Despite your negative attitude and antics,

By “antics” I mean your attempts to get me to act like a responsible parent. You and your crazy shenanigans. #kibbles

we are building a life together and only want the best for our daughter.

Because abandoning our 10-year-old girl for my fuckbuddy is what’s best for our daughter.

I would appreciate you respect my relationship with OW when it comes to your interactions with our daughter and try not to cause undo stress with her.”

I would appreciate if you would respect the woman who fucked me behind your back. Bow down, pay homage, cast rose petals as she alights. Twinkie won the awesomeness of me! And now our daughter can play the pick me dance with Twinkie for my awesomeness!

Quit with your ugly talk. It’s causing me undue stress and distracting me from this beautiful power dynamic. #shutup #forthechildren

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I will never respect slunty, she is a family destroying whore and fucktard is the same, they deserve each other, but obviously I am the bad parent who disrupts thing. Too bad too sad!

    • These narc cheaters really take the cake, don’t they? Gah! I love the condescending, “Hey, now. The past is the past, can you just get over it?” *insert eyeroll* attitude. Boy, they’re really good at pretending we’re some big drama queen who is just being petty over nothing. It’s so infuriating! They act like they’re the big, better mature side of the parenting duo, and treat you like some ditzy 12 year old who is throwing a temper tantrum over nothing. I don’t have any advice today other than this type of shit drives me crazy. It’s so insulting. You carry the heavy burdens of their selfish acts, then they look down on you with disdain for not immediately being okay with the just loving the now fucked up situation, sans any type of ownership or apology. Grrrrrrr….

      • Chumpstruggle, you said that PERFECTLY!!! I love the get over it… Just more abuse and salt to the wounds… It also shows that they still think that they are somehow smarter or better than you for being non-emotional beings. Eyeroll!

          • Exactly. I’ve gotten the “just get over it” also. Now I ignore that too. Fucktard father of my children sent me many long winded, condescending and subtly threatening emails for years. Now I don’t even read them as part of my new No Contact approach thanks to Chumplady. I forward the messages to my mom and best friend and they send back only what I need to know and what I need to do to abide by my custody agreement.

            For years I kept trying to get myself to his definition of “co-parenting,” including not being bitter or “for the sake of the kids.” On top of doing the lion’s share of the parenting (3 kids through braces and I don’t think he even knows where the orthodontist office is), embarrassed in our town, and taken back to court repeatedly to reduce his child support. And the latest threat my 11 year old recently shared “Dad says he’s going to have to take you back to court because you will only talk to him in email or text,” which the older two confirmed is openly discussed in his house with his howorker-now-wife and her kids present.

            Nope. No respect. For him or her. They didn’t deserve it in 2009 and they still don’t.

            • Smart to have someone else read and filter out for you… So sad, but glad that you have the support you need to avoid further abuse..

            • To me that’s the craziest part. How they behave as if you don’t have the right to refuse to take his calls…but wait don’t these cheaters deserve sent to voicemail call trophies? Un-returned text awards? Presidential turned phone off commendations? When they were screwing around on us it Was common practice to ignore our calls and texts. To pick and choose when they’ll actually answer us. Now that you are deciding NC because you refuse their calls. How dare we chumps create and enforce boundaries?!?

      • OMG This hits so damn close to home. The last time I talked to Fucktard (to let him know son wrote a suicide letter) that fucker gray rocked me the whole conversation even when it devolved into him admitting his relationship with CF but still refusing to tell me her name. He acted like I was hysterical, drama queen, nosey, bitch ex wife. This isn’t five years post divorce and he met someone. This is the whore he was fucking/still fucking while married to me.

        And yet he is the mature one? The sensible one? The sane one? Oh my god that attitude just infuriates me! You know what wouldn’t infuriate me? Just be a fucking man and own it. If he would just say ‘yes this is CF we had an affair, sorry it hurt you but she is the love of my life and not going anywhere’. I honestly wouldn’t be so rage filled.

        • Why would he own up to anything! That would totally ruin his cover of you being wacko. They have to keep the appearances up even when they know the jig is up. They just can’t face the fucked up that is them…

          • Exactly. Seven years later and my ex asshat is still sticking to his original lies. He doesn’t seem to care how that makes him look to his own kids, who figured it out on their own years ago.

            Well he is consistent in his lies, narcissism and douchery.

        • Just be a man and own it.

          Oh my goodness. Wouldnt that be refreshing. But then that entails honesty and respect and accountability.

          Blameshifting and crazymaking don’t require any of that.

      • Yes yes yes. Thank you LoneStar for writing the email that summarizes the junk with my ex and ChumpLady for the good reminder of how not to lose our meh despite this narcissistic ridiculousness. Your ex is condescending and it is infuriating, but we’ve got to be the bigger person, even when it’s hard.

  • I know this was an aside – but I burst out laughing: “Yes, I helicopter parent. And I have a nice son at college to prove it.”

    Needed that!

    And before I knew what I know? And he was living with me? I was still a single parent getting advice from a “distant” parent. On how to be better. No.

    • Elizabeth,
      Me too on the single parenting while being married. STBX was critical of everything I did.
      One of my favorite parts of life now is that I get to be a single parent alone. His opinions and advice are only good for laughs and examples of what not to do.

    • +1 here on single parenting before I knew what I know. And his triangulating was complicating the situation even more.

    • Me, too! I always felt like a single parent most of the time. Right from the get-go. Sure, he’d step in to change the occasional diaper and such. But my ex worked seven days a week (Monday thru Thursday until about 11pm each night) for much of our kids life, sans the last five years, which he went down to six days a week. I did most of the parenting and fun things with them. His loss! Now the kids are almost adults and they have their own lives now, so they don’t spend much time with him when they are with him. Ha! I have years and years of great memories with my kids, because I put them first as much as I could. Cheater put work and ho-workers first, so he will have years and years of those nice memories. I think I made the better choice!

      • Martha – Sounds like you were married to a ghost, who didn’t want to be married or be a father. I don’t understand why men like this propose, get engaged, and get married, if they’re not going to be around at all. I mean, he could have stayed single and worked his life away. That’s pretty acceptable too and not frowned upon. To this day, it amazes me how absent men like this find women to get married to and good women at that. I just don’t get it…

        • Oh Kellia, try this one on for size. He didn’t leave during the cheating because……. he didn’t want some other guy raising his child… So in other words, I would rather keep cheating until she finds out, than tell her it’s over so that she can find happiness with someone who will love and respect her. What a great father!

          • Shaking my head Peakyblinders. These cheater’s brains are so warped and wired incorrectly. It’s like a toy that is a lemon, that’s what these cheaters are, defective humans in every way shape or form. They should be thrown in the reject pile.

    • Me too and I didn’t even realize it until I read a comment from @TheClip about the difference between sharing custody and co-parenting. She said she still does all the doctors appointments, PTA stuff, after school activities, permission slip signing, etc. just like before. The cheater was gone and sharing custody but nothing changed on the parenting front. I knew I was not alone.

      My true question for the writer today is, or else what? Do what he says or else what? They’re so used to getting their way. Respect his relationship or else what? Go be the person and parent you need to be. Stop responding to him unless it is regarding your daughter and absolutely necessary. I only hear from Narkles the Clown about twice a month via email about scheduling. He learned anything else gets zero reaction. No Contact is the path to the truth and the light. Go into the light.

      • It’s aggravating to me because I was always the one on top of all the parenting crap. After a year of being divorced my ex starts whining that I am too on top of things it doesn’t give him an opportunity to step in and parent. Okay, fair enough, so we agree that I will handle doctor visits and he can handle dentist visits. November rolls around and he doesn’t make a dentist visit, I remind him numerous times, he ignores me and finally says “if it is so important to you why don’t you do it yourself!” So I remind him of our conversation that he wants an opportunity to parent but I do it myself anyway. Summer rolls around, I keep getting reminers from the dentist that he hasn’t made an appointment so I forward them to him a few times, he ignored me. Finally he snaps and says “Geez if you have so much anxiety over it just make the appointment yourself.” So I do.

        So if I do too much parenting then it bruises his ego, but he’s not really willing to step up to the plate on one single thing, and an easy one at that, a dentist visit twice a year.

        • So now you can ignore him and remind him when he complains that:
          1. You stepped back to give him an opportunity
          2. He chose not to take it.

          End of that discussion, permanently. What the UBT might say about “you are too on top of things it doesn’t give me an opportunity to step in and parent”: You are a great parent. That makes me look bad because I don’t know how to be responsible for a child’s well-being.”

        • Omg, yes!!
          In marriage counseling, part of his gas lighting was telling me that his lack of relationship with the kids was my fault! Because I “did everything before he could”!!!
          Now that we are separated, he takes for granted that I do everything. I am just keeping my mouth shut, because it will help me with custody in the long run.

          • Well, damn, Louisvilleflower. I guess you should have just waited until the children were emaciated and losing muscle mass to feed them, just to see if he would do it first.

            Strep throat? “Honey, your father will get around to taking you for antibiotics. Sure hope it doesn’t travel to your kidneys before that happens….”

        • I can relate to this too. But since I knew he really didn’t want the responsiblity and because I have a better health insurance plan, I put in our agreement that I would keep D on my health and dental insurance and handle appts and payment. He would keep her on his eye care plan because mine is terrible and he would handle those appts and payment. Clearly he is the winner on this one because doctor and dentist appointments are more often and more expensive. And to top it off D is an athlete so injuries are common. Urgent care – check. Orthopedist – check. Emergency room – check. Wisdom teeth – check. Done them all since divorcing him.

          So 2 things happened. One, he wasn’t paying the eye doctor bill so they mailed a late notice to my address, I promptly stuck an address label on it and sent it to him. The next time D had an appointment, I instructed her to make sure she updated the address on her file to his address.

          Second – she made the comment a few months ago that she needed more contacts but everytime she asked him, he told her he hadn’t had a chance call to order them. My response – talk to your dad again. No idea what happened but I haven’t heard any more about it.

      • Absolutely! No more being controlled by a horrible man. Freedom! Happiness. I am grateful to say that his threats and rants have no power. They come from a delusional, sad, pathetic man.

    • As a person who raised 3 kids, two with the fuckwit in the house for all of their growing up years and 1 alone for her HS years, I can tell you I raised 3 kids by myself. However for the first two, I had interference from a guy who had no more idea of how to parent than a lizard and interferred constantly with comments and actions that were not intended to help raise them rather intended to look like the ‘parent’ but really curry favor. With the last, he was a distant, nerdy dad. She did better. And through all of this I had this mantra which I whipsered under my breath. “That’s ok Ring’n, single mothers do this all the time.” Every.single.day. I count my blessings that that disordered fuckwit is with CFMily, the slunty, and far away from me. He sees the kids once a year and talks to them perhaps once a month. Douche

      ps My son says slunty is boring and had she not been with his dad, he wouldn’t have wanted to spend more than 15 minutes with her. I love that kid.

      • What is it with these nitwits leaving us as single parents even while married to us? I actually told him that he had me as a single parent. He had the nerve to be offended. Didn’t know it was training for my present. My Ex has get this… A degree in early childhood education and still refused to do homework with the kids. Eventually, after telling him several times, I started doing homework before taking them to their father. But I documented anyway, so in case the idiot wants to challenge my sole custody (yay,me!) I’ll be ready to show the courts what a lovely father these kids have….

        He’s still with the OW and I’m waiting for the day he wants to tell me to respect her… I think I’ll laugh as that would be a joke..

        • “My Ex has get this… A degree in early childhood education and still refused to do homework with the kids.”

          Wow, this takes the cake! Unbelievable! It’s like the cobbler’s own children don’t have shoes. Makes you wonder why he had kids if he isn’t going to take care of them… Shaking my head.

        • Kurlee, girl, that’s unbelievable. So qualified to help but yet somehow still ill-equipped to do so. Just crazy. Where is their character?!

    • Yes to the feeling like a single parent while married to a serial cheater. Sure explained a LOT when I found out.

      He never criticized my parenting though. He never appreciated, praised, engaged, criticized or in any way participated in parenting. He just floated along until he could get out of the house again.

      He’s 50/50 time wise but I continue to do all the parenting. With a smile and love and a ‘be sure to ask your Dad to do and let me know if you have issues.

      I think CL is right that I don’t want to belittle the jackass in front of his kids, but I’ll make sure HE knows that it was a basic parenting task and the kid called because it wasn’t happening. The kids are learning to own their own shit (with support — that’s key) and to assert that they have a right to be cared for. They know I have it all covered and their Dad, well, their Dad doesn’t imitate any conversation with them about anything school or hobby or personal. He’ll do things he thinks are fun with them, most of the time the kids love that too. But they see the chasm between a parent who selflessly cares and gives — which includes boundaries and enforcing them and bracing myself for their wrath — and one who … just isn’t really all there.

      All his online sex was casual and churning through partners. If he tries to bring in a GF, whether or not they got it on while he was married to me, I know I’m an awesome parent and my kids love and RESPECT me.

      • Very good points Sterling.

        “They know I have it all covered and their Dad, well, their Dad doesn’t imitate any conversation with them about anything school or hobby or personal.”

        My adult children have commented numerous times about NOT sharing personal information with him. He talks about himself (Dream Catcher), his debt, business, and the elusive ‘Florida’ plan.

        He complains about her son, the new baby and her dog house all the while fucking the other, other woman.

        After all is said and done he ERASED himself from their lives. He’s a pathetic acquaintance and can never change that. Oh well, consequences.

  • Everytimè I read about the joint parenting people are trying to do with these wackjobs I am so grateful mine was basically an absentee father and has little to do with our kids now as well. The damage is far less with both of them. Giant hugs to all of you going through it…

    • I agree that an absentee is better. My STBX uses kids as part of her power dynamic (she has the kids slightly more than I do, in court docs, she always refers to her home as their home (mine is just for short breaks, ie 6 out of every 14 days…., and wants all child payments to go through her, even though I can easily pay direct). She also wanted weekly meetings and constant interaction as a “family”…. She got email contact and no conversation at drop off time …. As a means to keep tabs on me. Nothing to do with the kids as she could do discussions by email.

      Much better if she had just fucked off and taken her mind games and search for drama with her.

    • Agree, single parenting is much better without the erratic, punitive, misogynistic influence of my XH. Even though it’s hurtful for them that he ran off to rescue poor single mum OW & her 2 young children, living with them full time & requesting minimal time with them. He only wanted 3 of their 16 holiday weeks a year despite living close by. But for me it’s better – he pays maintenance and I get to raise my boys with minimal exposure to narc daddy

  • Wow, that message could have been from my ex. That same punishing, entitled tone, and the same content too. Don’t bother responding.

    • Mine writes emails like this all the time. He constantly belittles me and my parenting (and yes, also did it while married – I could never do anything right yet I was the one handling all of it while he was at work or out) Now whenever he sends an email that has “you” in it as an accusation of anything I don’t respond. I’m trying my best every day to not let his opinions of me or my parenting get to me but I have made it clear that I will not respond to any emails that include any sort of accusations. As soon as I see the word “you” I close the email

      • “I could never do anything right”

        omg, this is the worst type of person to be in a relationship with. They are right and you are always wrong. I was engaged to a guy like this and called off the engagement. Everything I did was wrong, I couldn’t cough the right way when I was sick, everything I said and did was wrong. And here was my clutzy girlfriend, who would burn the food, and ruin the laundry, and yet her husband would quip it was the best food ever and so grateful she did his laundry. It really opened my eyes to the impossible standard of perfection I was held to with my retard of a fiance. I dumped his ass, best decision ever!

        • I wish I would have had my eyes open back then but I would say the fist 10 years weren’t as bad. The last 3 were miserable but I didn’t want to break up the family. I have to keep reminding myself that him having an affair and falling in wuv with the babysitter (yes, I was letting her live with us cuz she didn’t have a place to live and wasn’t close with her family) was a blessing in disguise. He can now live with his wuv who’s 27 yrs younger than him and they can live in crazy land while I try to enjoy my new life

  • Meh. I think I sufficiently scared the most recent of his fuck buddies off soon after I found everything out.

    This poor chump in Texas? I’d have lost it when he asked for respect for the relationship with his colluder and told him I’d have as much respect for their relationship as they had for mine, just like I told my own narc when everything started coming out. I told him I’d be fair and make sure I showed him and his whores the same consideration they’d all shown me.

    Funny how these assholes love to dish the shit out to others but cry foul the minute they start getting a taste of their medicine AND think they’re above it all.

    • Amen – when I left her, I offered my STBX 60% of our assets (50% would be fair) and a clean break to avoid legal fees and draw things to a quick conclusion. She came back with a demand for more than 100% of our assets and a life time of spousal support (even though she’s been in what she described as a “relationship” with her fuckbuddy). Entitlement runs rich through some cheater’s veins…. So fucked up in their thinking and we’ve now run through. 100’s of thousands in legal fees with no end in sight as she litigates everything.

      • I really wish every state would bring back at-fault divorce options. No-fault for when the marriage just doesn’t work, but with the ability to file at-fault when there’s adultery, abuse, etc. Luckily I’m in a state that still gives a damn about marriage and when a spouse hasn’t done right in such profound ways.

        I’m sorry about your situation. It would be a lot different if I were in charge!

        • Yep – was in court yesterday and court even threw out the idea it would factor in the money (ie joint money) she spent on the affair or the money she is spending now. Courts just don’t care…. Ironically and without any shame her lawyer picks on every fricking thing I have said and done, whether relevant or not, but spending money on a fuckbuddy is a complete no go zone.

          • Wow. That really sucks.

            I guess where I got lucky, if you want to call it that, was the fact that my ex has a job where public image is important and the phony persona he’d worked so hard to build could all come crashing down if I wanted it to and I told him it would if he tried to challenge me. What he used to entice women and keep his ego well oiled is what I’m using to get mine.

            I wish you could do the same :/

            • My ex also prizes his phony persona and has worked hard on it; as we all know, nice doesn’t come naturally to these bastards.

              We are wending our way to a relatively peaceful divorce, given we hate each others’ guts. I have been NC for quite some time and it’s so easy now. When I think of ever having to come face to face with him again, my stomach turns. But when it’s all over I will be financially secure and for that I am thankful.

              Anyway, for the past two+ years, I have been taking notes, keeping emails and text messages, and gathering data. I am writing a memoir about my marriage and its implosion. It’s a heck of a story, and one that the asshat ex would prefer to keep under his asshat.

              I don’t have any pretensions that it will be a great book, I just hope it’s an engrossing story. I plan to e-publish it myself and the only marketing I do will be to tell my friends, and tell them to tell their friends. I will give the ebook away for free. I figure most of my peers in the town where we all (the asshat, the OW, and I) live will probably have a certain amount of prurient interest in the story.

              Life isn’t fair, and all of us here have been dealt a difficult hand. This is my little effort to address the unfairness in a small way, and exercise my creative juices, while at the same time demolishing the facade the asshat hides behind and exposing him once and for all.

              • Good idea writing a book. I was speaking with a friend the other day and she was not only married to a narcissist her mother is one as well. We thought a follow up book on what happens to narcs when they age would be a good read. I know of a few and all but one ended up completely miserable. Senior women narcs seem angry, volatile with depression (that I have witnessed) and the men seem to just crumble with depression and have ailments galore. I only know of one woman that seemed to escape utter misery (I only know about her from a distance) but she died of dementia just recently. Again I maybe know of only 10-12 off the top of my head so not exactly enough for a study.

              • yes indeed–KB–my shrink is fond of telling me that, “narcissists don’t age well.” Even if they continue the lamprey act and continual all-around bottom feeding. How they find new victims is a mystery to me.

              • CC, good for you!
                I look forward to reading it when available.
                I still journal, once in awhile, it helps me!
                I am a believer that the “pen is truly mightier than the sword.”

  • “Don’t feed fuckwits kibbles.” It’s like a warning sign at a cheater zoo- it’s really the main thing to remember.

  • My stbxw took my 13 year-old son out the other day, supposedly to shop for school clothes. Instead she took him (and my MIL) out for lunch and a game of darts and introduced him to asshole OM. Then they played putt-putt and got ice cream. He’s a great guy and they’re all going to get along so well!

    I’m trying to follow CL’s advice #2 from above: don’t editorialize and don’t burden kids with my own emotional slop. It’s hard.

    • It is hard.
      I was very proud of myself the other day when I told my 13 year old son “your dad sometimes has trouble understanding things from other people’s point of view” rather than saying “your dad is a narcissist and completely lacking in empathy.” It is like a translator for kids. I put my own thoughts in and diplomacy comes out – amazing!

      • Loisevilleflower,
        Excellent! CL it would be great to have a post for parents to add more key observations with diplomatic translations. I often struggle to successfully make these kinds of translations. I want to provide my kids with info to help them cope.

        • I have just been telling my kids that eg Tiger Woods isn’t a very nice person because he had lots of girlfriends, even though he is married, and now his kids can’t see him every day as a result. It teaches them the same point without making it directly personal for a 10yo.

          • I use the Tiger Woods story as well as an age-appropriate version of Woody Allen’s story. Gosh I used to love his movies, but now can’t watch any without disgust.

        • Sort of like a UBT in reverse gear? Great idea, as long as it isn’t a Universal Bullshit Spreader. Universal de-Snarkler?

          Folk who say to ‘get along with the cheater for the sake of the kids’ are, in effect, asking you to keep spackling.

          I DID temper my language around Kiddo, but I also gave up on the telling her “your dad and I both love you”, because:

          1) I can’t -and won’t-speak for him
          2) He fired me from image management, along with giving a shit what he thinks or feels when he started fucking kiddo’s aunt
          3) Not gonna tell my kid by modelling that his sort of behavior is in any way acceptable.
          4) He sure as fuck doesn’t act like he loves her

          Otherwise, we run the risk of passing on the Chump gene. I speak of bitter experience-my dad was a wailing narc, my mom a stoic Chump.

          It is a valid course of action to show contempt for the contemptible, is what I am saying.

          So I did what Chumptitude suggests-I point out narc actions and style in the environment-Tiger Woods, Anthony Weiner and Trump, for the trifecta!

          Kiddo is smart enough to put two and two together, and at one point, she did say, “Yep, Dad loves me, but he loves himself more.” I said, yep, there are some dark souls out there. THAT is what the kiddos need to know. It sucks when you encounter Clusterfuck B in your own parent, but it is a valuable life skill to be able to spot a narc and protect yourself.

          Chump parents are, in effect, teaching their kids how to do what WE couldn’t-see red flags for what they are, and recognize frog-boiling situations. And to be truthful, to thers, but just as importantly, yourself.

          I really feel for Chumps out there who have a longer way to go. But stay mighty!

          Kiddo is almost college age, and her stated ambition is to study psych and law, and I quote: ” So I can help out kids whose parents are fuckheads.”

  • Respect OW? LOL. They all have the same script.

    Sorry. These guys totally disrespected their wives and families when they lied, manipulated, cheated. That is some of the most disrespectful behavior possible. OW played along with that. Apparently she has no scruples.

    I got that line also when I refused to allow my kids to spend the night with them. In an efficiency apartment. While they were both still legally married–we were just separated, divorce not started yet. I was so disprectful for calling her “peanut butter legs”. Not sorry. Was also told “OW never says a mean thing about me.” She didn’t have to. Actions speak a lot louder than words.

    I had no visitation plan in force yet. So yeah, I got away with being the bitch and saying hell no.

    • Hahaha!! I don’t know what “peanut butter legs” are, but if that’s the worst thing you called her, you’re a saint!

      • Spread easily, like a fresh jar of Skippy. Peanut Butter Legs is quite demure, actually. Most young children won’t figure it out, and if there are older ones, with a wise-ass sense of humor, they will laugh and you will know they have heard (and thought) much worse.

      • I’m no saint. I said a whole lot of stuff that couldn’t be said publicly, to his face. I was rip-roaring pissed–he lied to me for nearly 2 years from what I was able to document when he finally admitted to the affair AFTER I had presented hard, sound evidence to him for several months. And OW was a real piece of work–this woman did stalk me and I was seriously creeped out by it.

        I’m truly unapologetic about anything I said to my ex about his AP or his affair and I don’t care if anyone (usually him or his family) thinks I’m “judgmental.” I was divorced many years ago now (going on 13 years). I’m no longer angry. But I sure as heck refuse to be apologetic for giving him a piece of my mind when he deserved it either. Never once had he admitted or apologized for his lies or deceit. But my life is calm, happy, and fairly carefree now that kids are all grown up and I don’t have his drama to deal with on a daily basis.

    • I know!!Great point Meh!!! Isn’t it ironic these cheaters completely disrespected their own wives and families, and now they turn around and want the wife to *respect* their OW?! Surely they live in the Twilight Zone if they can’t see how hypocritical they come across.

      Respect the OW? Why should I! If you didn’t respect me in the first place and cheated on me. All bets are off, and I don’t respect a cheater, nor anyone associated with him!! If they want respect, they should have modeled respect in the first place. Since they didn’t, I’m only extending the same courtesy I was given and will not respect them, AT ALL.

      • Yeah, my now ex said I didn’t respect him and he wanted to be with someone who “respected him 100%” and I “couldn’t give him what he wanted. 100% respect.” Ummmm, let me see. He was flirting with women, sending flirtatious emails and texts to women, getting at least ten 100% naked lap dances from women (and probably more, like BJ’s and sex in the back rooms), he cheated on me when I was pregnant, saw women behind my back, but……..I needed to trust him 100% even though he was and still is an entitled liar and cheater. Ugh, no. It doesn’t work that way. I will NEVER respect him and I most certainly won’t respect his slut and his ho-worker sluts. Not going to ever happen and I’m looking forward to disrespecting them in public some day, just like my ex and his slut(s) disrespected me.

      • “All bets are off, and I don’t respect a cheater, nor anyone associated with him!! If they want respect, they should have modeled respect in the first place. Since they didn’t, I’m only extending the same courtesy I was given and will not respect them, AT ALL.”

        Articulated very well Kellia! There are people who stay the fuck away from me simply because they know I would not hesitate to tell them they are pond scum enablers. I have had people when they figure out who my ex is tell me what a nice guy they think he is. All I respond with is a “That’s nice that you think so. My experience is different”.

        Prince Charming also knows better than to ask our adult sons to respect Cinderella. THEY made it perfectly clear that they think she is a whore.

    • “Was also told “OW never says a mean thing about me.””

      Damn, these cheaters are dense.

      The hypocrisy, the double standards are lost on them.

  • Indeed, breeding with a fucktard is a never ending suckfest.

    Someone who blows up and destroys your family with selfishness and deceit is in no position to lecture you on how to parent, let alone demand how you should treat his cumbucket of the moment.

    Remember when you were in middle school and your friend would complain about her father? It was okay for her to complain, but if you chimed in, she would immediately go on the defense of dear old dad? This is the same principle.

    Best thing to do — and it’s also the hardest thing — is to be an understanding ear when your child eventually figures out dad’s shortcomings. And I know for a fact that they figure it out eventually. Nod and commiserate instead of add to the list of lack of character. They’ll love you more for not trying to one up their complaints.

  • As always…right on the mark. The only thing I’d add is that fuckwits jump on the parental alienation bandwagon pretty quick, so no negative talk! What I do is list out the positives and negatives of each parent with my girls so my fuckwit can’t “spin” them seeing him and wife #4 (with an OW to boot!) As troubled as the same thing as “alienating” them from him. My fickwit left my kids unattended in a car and let wifey #4 hit them but I still need to watch negative statents.

    You win BC you get kiddo. 🙂

  • My kids are grown ive always been there for them. They are around for him to show off so he can be big daddy. He was a great provider and he was home mostly but mentally and emotionally never there for them. They knew to go to their rooms to cry as he would anger at tears. Grow up get over it he would tell them. I picked up all the rest as a parent should. I called the whore all kinds of names he says she the whore doesnt call you names or say bad things about you km. I told him to fuck off she woukdnt call me names not in front of him he would punish her bad behavior. Big giant fluttering eyeroll insert here. And i didnt fuck her husband she didnt have one at the time. I shouldnt hate her or be disrespectful to her she didnt do anything it was all him he says. Shes nice and kind and cant do enough for him. after all shes a sex slave with money and jumped when he said jump he moves in with her and guess what after time this changes they fight and fight and come to blows. Neither was what the other one thought. Ha! Shes thrown him out four times. But im supposed to respect and want to be friends with a whore who while i was at work pranced naked around my house and fucked him everywhere including my bed and my truck while it was sitting on the property. Had to taint everything. Respect my ass.

  • All I can say is that I’m so glad that my ex left the OW very shortly after our divorce went through in March. Not only do I have the satisfaction of knowing that he cheated on the OW but from what my daughter has said this new woman has it so much more together.

    It’s a huge relief to know that I won’t have to deal with the OW who would have been a shitty influence on my daughter. And this new woman may truly be a positive influence.

    • Thanks for this post! This seems like the best possible outcome so I will hope he ends up with someone else. I know he can never be alone. I just don’t want my kids around her level of immorality. Yuck.

  • This is my life at the moment. Ex moved over 2,000 miles away, yet tells me what the kids need (S needs a sport, what have you done about X medical issue). Before the divorce I never used profanity, but know I think it quiet often.. FU, bastard! I have to get the kids to different schools, plus all appointments and activities (two therapists, psychiatrist, ortho, dentist, etc, etc, etc.)
    Currently I am stressing about how to get the kids to two different after school activities at that same time, 20 miles apart.
    And yes, I have a full time job….

    Oh, and of course, I also got the “respect the OWife” talk. Apparently SHE makes all youngest’s travel arrangements, plus drives him around when he visits, etc. I made a fuss when the flight to visit ex was changed, and they failed to tell me. I found out at the airport while checking him in! (Un)fortunately he did not miss the flight. Son was put on a different flight, later, but then less time between transfers, and he missed the connection because the first flight left late… Had to spend the night at the airport in the “kids lounge.” I went into son’s email account and found the message about the changed flight…two months earlier.
    I pointed out OWife has no legal nor moral authority for my children, and their FATHER was responsible for flights, etc.
    This past summer ex made the flight arrangements.

    On the one hand I am grateful ex moved away… No need to see him nor interact with the OWife.
    But I sure could use some help at times. My job is suffering, but the kids are only with me a few more years, so I put them first,

    One side note, ex keeps pressuring youngest to move in with him for “one school year.” I admit I do not want this to happen. Childs life is here (friends, beloved activity, etc). Worst part, ex talks about it behind my back even though court order says we discuss first.

    Trust that they suck, and they always will.

    • I am your twin, zyx321. I especially empathize with the need to drive kids to multiple activities at simultaneous times in different directions. I am almost past this stage (one kid is nearly able to drive). But I often spend over an hour driving on weeknights and several hours on weekends. It is mind-boggling. And I don’t even get to see the games or performance half the time because I’ve sped away to take a different kid to their activity!

      If I put the time and energy into my career that I’m putting into my kids, I would be a superstar in my chosen field. I bet you would be too.

      You know those stick-figure families that many people put on the rear view windows of their car? I want to put one on mine with a jackass stick-figure to represent the EX. If we all had those, we could recognize each other as we zip from one child-drop off/ orthodontics appointment/school supply run to another. (And the single parental stick-figure would have a superhero cape.)

      • Haha!! Love this idea. Years ago I saw a stick figure family with the mom and all the kids, and you could see the leftover mark of where the dad had been before the mom removed him. Too bad she hadn’t replaced his spot with your suggestion. Too funny!

    • When he wants you to add another activity to the schedule say, “If Son wants to do that, it’s fine–if you pick up the case of a childcare worker to drive him back and forth, including mileage.” You’ll hear…

    • You know, I have been half tempted to quit my career and start a “mom’s helper” business/nonprofit targeted at single moms, just to help with things like appointments, laundry, and all the things we struggle to do on our own. They are absolutely clueless what actually goes into parenting. I’d like to think that your ex will get a taste of it as their love child grows up, but it sounds like he’s already punting those jobs to OW, even for his own kids. Worthless, every last cheating one of them.

      • Here’s a secret, and I’ve seen this several times with women I know. When cheater gets with the AP, or even a new gf, he uses her for childcare while he is out cheating on her. This is very common, especially with younger ladies.

      • Great idea, Free Vixen! I took on that role with a friend of mine: dentist and doctor appointments, rides to and from school, sports, etc. Every single mom needs a “wife”.

    • Even lng distance….I feel you! My ex is across the world, but still can argue with me when I ask for half the cost of Kiddo’s glasses. “You should have discussed it with me first”.

      Um. Kiddo has needed glasses since she was five years old.

  • I see an additional angle, sort of a tipped hand. If you zoom way out, you can see that he avoided a parental responsibility and used it to gain sanity points and gaslight our writer. He avoided something he knew would annoy her and harm the daughters progress, minimized his actions, and accused our writer of putting the daughter in the middle, set a boundary, THEN magically introduced a documentation system. Oh, and then refers to her behavior as “antics”.

    This has sneaky-ass setup written all over it.

    Writer, I think it could be important to call out the idea that he is deliberately irritating you so he can make you look unstable. I think he may be engaging in BPD self-aggrandizing, thinking he’s perfect and you are insane, and planning on documenting that.

    I agree with CL, accept that system if it isn’t terrible, and participate fully in it to set YOUR boundaries for the child and document HIS inability to parent well, and engage him as little as possible. Don’t respond to his diatribe unless you have to, and if you have to, go factual: “Schools give children homework. Parents participate in that process for the well being of the child/student. Please participate in this process as a parent from now on.” If he doesn’t, or if he snarks back at you, don’t complain (except in private to a close friend), just DOCUMENT.

    If your child comes home and Dear Old Dad hasn’t attended to the homework, leave Dad out of it and talk about what happens now — the outcome of the choice to procrastinate. (“Well, the homework has to be done, or your grades will drop and you won’t be ready for the next lesson, so here are your options now that we’re here.”) Don’t let on that you’re mad at DOD and don’t re-engage him about things he won’t change and that aren’t super important. (Homework is important, but it isn’t like missing antibiotics or getting drunk while home unattended.)

    Don’t give him ammo to make you look unstable or to put your child in the middle. I think he WANTS to make you mad. I say, ignore his irrelevant ass as much as possible.

    • Yeah, reading a letter like that asking me to “respect” the relationship with OW would make my blood boil. However, as I was reading it, I was thinking that it’s actually the child’s responsibility to do her homework. If she doesn’t do it, there are consequences she’ll have to face at school. If teacher calls Mom and says the homework didn’t get done, Mom should refer teacher to Dad and let him get the call. That would put the responsibility where it lies, without Mom having to say much of anything. Really hard to do, but a way to take herself out of the middle of it and let responsibility lie where it should — with the father and daughter.

      Anyway, it just galls me how these cheaters provoke you and then say you’re “crazy” when you react. It’s so hard to keep your cool. My heart goes out to Chumps who are raising young children and have to communicate with their cheater ex’s.

    • I am the chump in the letter. And I did actually respond to him with bullet points:
      A. Never copy your girlfriends in our communication regarding our daughter
      B. Respect my parenting style which you may neither agree with nor appreciate but it’s providing good structure and resulting in good grades with my daughter so rest assured it is working
      C. I will always have my daughters best interest at heart and she is very well taken off. You have no right to scold me, reprimand me or control how I parent in my own household. Worry about your parenting the 20% she has with you.
      D. The only steer I’ve exhibited is when she comes back from parenting times covered in hives, back talking, honoring and acting out. She doesn’t do any of it under my roof.
      E. As far as your girlfriend is concerned I don’t tell her how to raise her children so I’d appreciate the same courtesy back. At the end of the day it’s none of her business how I raise my daughter.
      F. As for respecting your relationship I find this act of love and devotion to be quite cheap and desperate. You don’t need to tell me go tell her. You will never have my respect. The relationship has exactly 80% chance of failure statistically so just worry about not being a statistic again. I’m happy you found love even if you had to cheat on your wife and child again and abandon your responsibilities. You’re a gem!!!

      • Hugs, Lonestar. You are dealing with a lot of pain and rage, and it’s completely understandable.

        One thing I do is nothing. I won’t acknowledge my X’s bimbo at all. She’s written me “letters” (he writes them and she signs them) and I refuse to respond. She is that insignificant to me.

        When X rages at me a few days later for not treating her with respect, I blow him off, too. Let them stew in their indignation that I won’t play the evil ex wife role in their twisted fantasy.

        I have far better things to do.

      • I had forgotten this one thing which you commented on Lonestar– my ex also CCed the OWife on email for a period of time. I just simply replied to his message and did not include her. He would add her back on to his response; it was almost comical. I cannot recall when it stopped; it lasted about 6 months.

        • OWife should be taking notes as she will be kicked to the curb in no time. It would appear your ex needs to triangulate, is emotionally stunted and has a cruel streak to boot. Takes a real twisted freak to not only cheat and leave his family but flaunt the relationship in your face.

    • My ex does this to me ALL THE TIME. He does something that he knows will infuriate me to bait me into a negative reaction (cancel my car insurance after we separated and lie about it, hide his OW’s pregnancy, move in with OW without telling me, fail to call our son on FaceTime when he knows we made arrangements to be home at that time, on and on and on). He’s not trying to document for custody purposes, he’s trying to justify treating me like shit and that I deserved to be abandoned and left homeless and unemployed. If he feels justified in those things by proving to himself that I’m a crazy meanie, then *poof!* – zero guilt. My ex baits me to alleviate his guilt. Plain and simple.

  • Just a quick shout out to you parents out there dealing with BS like this.

    All of the respect I lost for cheaters, equivocators, liars, truth-benders, boundary-crossers, and fun-but-irresponsible spouses, I give to you.

    My cheating ex recently had a baby with her OM. He’s still legally married, although the divorce is almost finalized, and has a child and stbx in another state. How in the world TWO cheaters will raise a stable, responsible child is beyond me.

    • Or two children, for that matter. My ex now has two kids under the age of 3.
      He’s going to be 60 when this next set graduates high school.

        • yup. #2 will be a year old in October. Both of the 2nd family kids have behavioral and medical issues– I do not rejoice in the suffering of kids; I do snicker a bit that ex thought his life re-boot would be a piece of cake..

      • zyx, skankboy is living with his howorker who has two kids, now aged 15 (g) and 9 (b). He will be 70 when the boy graduates HS. Hope you make it to see the kids graduate…….LOL!

      • I know, it’s crazy. My Ex will be 71 when kid with OW graduates from high school. Even stupider, he will be 74 (child support til 21 in this state) when he gets to stop child support to OW as they are now splitsville!!

    • The answer is that they will not raise a stable, responsible child. She will grow up with a strong set of entitlement from both parents, “special snowflake” status from her maternal family, and a “look the other way and ignore the elephant in the room” attitude from her paternal grandparents. It’s a recipe for disaster, especially when her parents eventually separate and she has that added layer of emotional trauma. There is no winning in the fickwit breeding olympics, and the losers are always the kids.

  • I want to emphasize two aspects of CL’s advice to you, LoneStar.

    First, document, document, document. I have been documenting for 5 years. I had begun to get lax about it, because the kids were getting older and I thought we were past the drama. I was wrong. I was back in court last month due to criminal behavior on the part of the EX, and now I have temporary full-time custody (maybe even permanently–we shall see). My factual, editorializing-free documentation over a period of years was part of what made it easy for the family judge to suspend the EX’s custody. The EX couldn’t argue he’d just had a bad day when he made the decision to behave criminally (the State is prosecuting him on that charge), because I could prove he had a pattern of negligent parenting and threatening behavior.

    Second, having recently reread my 5 years of documentation, I can tell you that it really will get better. The first two years of my document were filled with notations about undone homework, missing school books, missing sports equipment, etc. The EX did not get better at helping to manage these things. I got better at not getting upset about them, and the kids got better at taking responsibility for their own possessions and lives. Work with your daughter, not the EX. Ask her why the homework doesn’t get done and help her strategize how she’ll find time for it when she’s with her father. One of my kids started doing all the weekend homework before visits to Dad (even if that meant staying up really late on Thursday evenings–though the child was about 12 before that began to happen). One of my kids couldn’t ever remember what to bring back after a visit with the EX. We learned to sit and write a list together when packing for a weekend, and then I put the list in a special suitcase pocket so my child could use it to repack. And still a sibling had to help. The point is that the EX never did help with homework or anything else–despite always claiming that he would.

    If you could have helped the EX to be a decent spouse/parent, you would have. You cannot. You already tried. Don’t waste another minute expecting anything from the nitwit. Help your kid develop coping strategies. Like CL said, you’ve already won. You have your daughter almost all of the time. You will be the one that teaches her how to manage her life. And she will be the better for it.

    • This. A thousands times This. I was going to write a response but after reading yours it says much of what I would have written. The above approach worked so well for our family (I am now 11 years out from divorce). The juxtaposition of my sane parenting and stable home with X’s negligent approach to “parenting” helped the children see for themselves who was the “good” parent without me having to explicitly point it out to them. Also, years of patiently, silently and stealthily documenting eventually paid off for me when I was able to use that documentation in my favor when my current hubby needed to move out of state for a new job. Because X had waned with his visitation (and I had documented it meticulously) we got the move legally approved, and we moved three states away.

      • Exactly! You never know when you might need the records. And the value of coming in to a custody hearing with a list of dates noting pick-ups more than an hour late, more than 3 hours late, and more than 5 hours late; a list of custody times never taken at all (with no warning), and a list of custody times cancelled within 2 hours of the planned arrangement, will be worth its weight in gold. The nitwit will be dumbfounded (not to mention furious). He or she may start to stutter to the judge that “it is all made up,” but a good lawyer will make hash of that string of lies in about 2 minutes.

        And your point about being “stealthy” is essential. Never mention you are doing it–not to the EX or the kids. It is your own insurance policy. It isn’t a tool to manipulate the EX, it is a document for buying your kids out of a shitty situation if the necessity arises.

  • Yeah, the whole “I’m only trying to help and do what’s best for our kids” bullshit is just amazing. He couldn’t be bothered throughout the almost fifteen years we were married, and now wants to be dad of the fucking year? Now he wants to be invited to IEP meetings for the boys, wants to be involved with my lo’s Headstart program, wants to meet the teachers? This from the same man who’d sit in his chair and fall asleep when we had mental health specialists out to the house to help with my sons? Who’d refuse to take them to therapy appointments? I could almost laugh about it.

    And I get the bit about trying to not offload on your kids. However, ex was abusive to the kids and to me the night he told me about the affair and a couple times afterward to the point where I couldn’t let him in the house, and my 14-year-old daughter is now spackling for him like a Venetian sculpter. When she had her last ragey tantrum and moved out last spring, she was convinced ex would keep OW away because he knew it upset her, that they’d be just as they had been before only without her younger sibs and I around and that she could convince him to end things and that life would be so much better at his place because no responsibilities, housework, homework or struggling parent to be around. I told her if she thought he was going to give up time with OW because she was there, then she had another thing coming and she didn’t believe me.

    Now they’re like one big, dysfunctional and happy family. Whatever charm he’s turned on with her is totally working, I’m still having to bite my tongue and just focus on my ten-year-old and two-year-old and have to deal with the knowledge that a disordered sociopath is now raising my teens because one is too dangerous to be allowed around his younger siblings and the other is too proud/desperate to let go of the life she thinks she should have with her “father.” All I can do is step back, be consistant for my little ones and hope someday she’ll see the light, but it sucks so much when you lose so much including your kids to these narc fuckers and can’t do anything about it for fear of looking spiteful, unbalanced or crazy.

    • I’m so sorry. I know that’s a huge shit sandwich but teens tend to pick the house with the least boundaries and she will realize someday what you’re trying to fashion for her- strong willpower, good boundaries, all that. Still hurts I’m sure. Hopefully it turns on him soon.

      • Kids are also often drawn to the most disordered parent, too, because they fear a total collapse of a person they love. And your daughter is likely the point of a triangle with OW because at 14, it’s often all about competing for Daddy when the parents divorce. They can grow out of it. Let’s hope.

    • This is my situation in Spades. My older son has been having rages and tantrums and fighting with me since the divorce but in the last six months it got really bad. About three weeks ago he went through my bedroom window and told the doctors that he did it on purpose. He had to be hospitalized in a psychiatric facility for a week and he told the doctors there as well as child protective services that I was drunk every night. It just hurts so bad that my son who is in my life thinks that I am his problem.

      Turns out that one of the roots here is that he wanted to go to the school of the arts high school near my exes house . My son has been having a lot of problems in school including flunking everything but theater is his life. ( Guess who got him into that several years ago) When he didn’t get in, he came home saying that he was going to go to the inner-city school near my exes house. I immediately said no. That’s apparently one of the reasons he hates me now.
      So he’s been living with his dad full-time because he can’t be safe at my house. This is the first time his dad has had to do anything more then come to a performance. His dad is telling him behind my back that I am the source of all his problems. I’m struggling with whether to tell him that his father was the one who has done everything he could to keep him out of theater or anything he thinks is gay.
      Luckily my son’s therapist seem to understand what the real situation is and has been working to bring my son and I back together again. It’s just so hard to hear what my son says that could’ve come straight out of Fucktard’s mouth including that the fuck buddy is a good friend to him and he can trust her and I should never have bad mouthed her.
      The irony in all of this is that I am a divorce and family lawyer now. I was a stay-at-home mom for 13 years and was told by the judge in the divorce that since I was a lawyer I could make as much money as my ex. He makes around $35k per month. And now he is refusing to pay me my $2k in alimony and child support because he’s just way overextended. I’m about to be evicted because my rent was late and my house is damaged in lots of ways from my son. I had a concussion two months ago and have had a hard time working since, not to mention all the emotional damage with my son.
      So of course I can take my ex to court but it takes several months for that to get resolved.
      I’m just struggling every day without my son and knowing the pain he’s going through.

  • You can’t argue with crazy. You just can’t. Cause their crazy. If there was anything less than complete irrationality,then they might not live how they do. (I don’t mean diagnosed mental issues, cause plenty of people function well after getting help, and live awesome lives. I mean willful, obstinate and selfish aholes who are constantly trying to to manipulate every single circumstance to their advantage/ control. That in and of itself is completely exhausting.)

  • What is it with these whores wanting Respect? What have they done to earn respect? This goes for cheater exes as well.

    The slunts seem to think that if they can get the married man they were fucking to leave his wife for them, they magically transform from a Whore into a Housewife. I’m sorry, it doesn’t work that way. You’re still a whore, honey. In this case, she’s not even a housewife . yes, I want my daughter to trust and respect a person who screws married men, then shacks out with one in front of a preteen girl, or boy for that matter. I don’t think so.

  • Sorry to be blunt, but he’s the one fucking the OW and therefore will be loyal to her. Therefore, anything to do with Lonestar will be met with rejection,contempt and disgust. He doesn’t want to relate to Lonestar, in fact, he wants to undo any sort of connection with her, and do everyone to get close to the OW. Which means his own daughter will have to worship the OW, why not? After all, his dick worships the OW and sings her praises, she’s so wonderful! Puke. He’s loyal to the OW, and everyone in his entire world will have to bend their own truth, so as to be loyal to the OW too. That is the prime directive for now, until his dick chooses someone else to be loyal to. In which case, his loyalty will change to another woman, and another, etc.

  • Okay – here is a snarky reply to “Mr. Level-Headed”:

    You spoke with our daughter last night? Oh, good! It’s nice for her to hear from you more than once a month. I appreciate your willingness to take on the Herculean effort of making sure a ten-year-old’s homework is finished. I never realized you were so empathetic that you were able to suss out my annoyance at you returning her, once again, with her homework unfinished. I agree that causing her undo stress isn’t necessary – I can clearly recall her stress levels being off the chart when you walked out on her. Stress = Bad. Imagine the stress she is under only seeing her father once a month and having to share that nano second of father-daughter time with Skanenstein, the woman who helped rip her family apart. The great thing is, I’m here to deal with the unfinished homework and to undo the damage of being forced to interact with the whore.

    If I had my choice, Skankenstein wouldn’t be allowed within 100 feet of this innocent, precious little girl. It’s shocking that we as parents are encouraged to keep our children from hanging out with the wrong crowd at school, yet we are then forced by the court to deliver then into the clutches of people with no morals, who are unacquainted with the truth, and the very people who have caused so much destruction in their young lives. Positive influence? I think not. Trust? Pfff. OW will probably be hitting on daughter’s boyfriends in a few years time.

    You are asking me to respect your relationship? I am. I am showing you and OW the same special type of respect you both had for our marriage. And our daughter. You have never understood that you get what you give. What amazes me is that you ask me not to cause our daughter undo stress (about homework!) now that you’ve blown up her life. It’s like comparing Hiroshima to a cap gun. It must be nice living in denial.

    P.S. What color is the sky in your world??

  • Lonestar

    Family wizard will be a good thing for you. Insist that from now on, unless it is an emergency and requires your immediate attention, that all communication be through FW. that way the screaming, etc, emails will be documented on a court recognized tool.

    When you D is with you, I think you can block his call/texts. Does he have a way to communicate with your D without going through you? How old is D?

    • She is 10 and she has a cellphone to communicate with him and now her. Although I do block the OW when she is with me and in my care.
      I asked for the family wizard during the divorce and he wanted none of it. Now he does. Which I said was a wonderful idea. Not sure it will get done though he lies all the time and makes empty promises.

      • Go to the Family Wizard site and set up the account. If he doesn’t respond or use it, the problem is all on him.

        I’ve been down this road. My EX wouldn’t use Family Wizard; he wanted us to use Google calendar. Then he wouldn’t use the Google calendar; he wanted just email exchanges; then he wouldn’t use email . . . there will always be a reason that decent parenting is just not convenient for him.

        The constant accommodating of these negotiations is painful because it is too reminiscent of the way your marriage went (if it was anything like mine), but now you aren’t doing it blindly. Now, you are just giving him enough rope to hang himself. He only thinks he’s calling the shots. You are.

        So, start the Family Wizard account and use it. Let him be the one leaving a nice record of empty promises should you need to show them to a custody judge (again).

        It is a win/win situation. You look good because you are parenting in the way the court would like you too (and he isn’t). Or custody becomes easier because he gets used to managing things through a neutral system like Family Wizard rather than burdening you with his B.S.

        • Eilonwy – too funny. While cheater and I were together, I used Google calendar to keep up with all her activities, school, etc., my work travel (very little), his work travel (lots), etc. D and I were connected to it but he refused. He preferred that I tell him where and when to be places like I was his secretary.

          When we met for custody and visitation schedule, he didn’t ask for custody and we put a minimal visitation schedule in place (D was 16). The only thing he asked for was that I keep a calendar so he would know what her activities were. I refused which shocked the negotiator. I explained how he handled the one we had and said their was no reason. He then asked if D would keep one for him and I refused again. She’s too busy with school and athletics to keep a calendar for him. I told the negotiator that he could look that info up on the school website just like me and put it on his own calendar. I don’t care one bit if I came off as a bitch but I’ll never, ever be his secretary again.

  • I wouldn’t want someone who uses the word “undo” instead of “undue” helping my child with her homework. At least Chump Lady can spell.

    • That was my first thought, too! “Um… maybe let’s just get your homework done before you go to Daddy’s house, sweetheart.”

      I laugh myself silly every time one of CheaterEx’s holier-than-thou emails butchers the English language. Your righteous indignation would be a bit more impressive if you proofread it before you hit “Send.” Just sayin’.

    • He has his hoe writing these great level headed letters. She seems to know all the tricks of the trade in more ways than one. She also was teaching him how to push my buttons before the divorce (light pushing, certain triggers, texting calling her in front of me) to provoke me. It didn’t work as I left town shortly thereafter to avoid any altercations.

        • Yep. She wants her kibbles, too.

          Schmoopie was always jealous of me, which made her both defensive and obnoxious. She started to harangue CheaterX a few months before our divorce went through. It was clear she was trying to triangulate so that he’d pay more attention to her. She also handled most of the email communication to me that dealt with legal issues. I could always tell when she was involved because she would copy/paste information she’d found online (no citations, but google is amazing at tracking down sources), which she had misread.

          I used to get angry at this until I realized that the best thing was to put the letter away until I could see it for the pathetic call for attention that it was. Then I’d forward it to my lawyer as an FYI, along with a bullet list of why the information didn’t apply.

          To Lonestar–If you can disengage from the OW craziness long enough, you will probably find you don’t have to tell your daughter that OW sucks. Once OW can’t engage you, she’ll try to engage your daughter (“respect me!!!!!!”), and of course your daughter won’t like this. This will either piss off your XH (he won’t like OW’s treatment of HIS daughter), or he’ll start canceling weekends because he doesn’t like YOUR daughter’s attitude. If the latter, well, that’s something to document via Family Wizard.

          My Cheating-X-Brother-In-Law has two grown daughters from his first marriage. If you listened to him while the two girls were teens (his first wife divorced him when the girls were 14 and 12), you’d think he was this awesome dad and the mother was a vindictive bitch. In actual fact, he was a very erratic father, who’d commit to have the girls for a week, only to drop them off again after a couple of days. Neither daughter respected him for running out on them with a woman barely out of her teens. At this point, both have unfriended him on Facebook, and wish their mother happy Father’s Day because she had to carry the burden for both.

          Stay strong. You’ll have some shit sandwiches for sure, but you will absolutely come out the winner.

  • It’s probably not helpful at all that every time I hear a demand for kindness and acceptance of a cheater all I can imagine is South Parks Cartman yelling “Respect my authoritah!!”

  • I really think we need a support group of coparenting with these fuckwits.

    I will never forget the time, weeks after my ex married the OW, that he was screaming at me on the phone, accusing me of “fucking up our daughter” (Still don’t know why, he seems to think I shit talk them around her, and I completely do not at all). He said “OW is my wife and you need to respect her!” I said very calmly “You are right, she is your wife, just like I was your wife for 7 years. I will give her the same amount of respect that she gave me when I was your wife.” He hung up on me.

    Micdrop, Strawberry out.

  • After the infatuation stage wears off they are stuck with IT. That would be the OW who along with your X didn’t give a fuck about you or your child.

    Where did all those kibbles go? I love kibbles. Tringulation made him more desirable, a wanted man.

    Within a year Nowhere Mans life fell apart. After two years he’s miserable. How do I know? There is something to be said about having a history of stability for cheaters to fall back on. Within that stability came genuine love, kindness, support, guidance, and independence. That is what they gave up.

    It’s interesting that for all the complaints and justification they use, they traded down to their own level. Mirroring their own kind highlights the false self they avoid like poison. It looks delicious from afar and in reality a living hell.

    Why taunt you and your parenting skills? Looking at themselves is way too painful.

    • Well said. It is an interesting dance we have with ex-cheaters. You have to be strong, not take shit, and also practice the zen “meh” art of patience. Preventing yourself from seeking revenge and burdening your children with your anger really works out to everyone’s advantage.

      I am four years out now, and luckily my children are college aged and I get to hear about the sweet slow drip of karma kicking in for my ex-wife who just moved in with the affair partner after his divorce (he bounced between his wife and my ex for the last four years)

      They now have no one else to blame.

    • I’m so envious of you with exes who are clearly fuckups. I’m not suggesting that it makes it any easier to accept being rejected and shown that you loved a lie, but I imagine it has to be satisfying to look at the source of so much pain and say, “yup, you’re a fuckup. I kept you together for a long time.”

      I don’t have that. My ex was and I assume continues to be super-competent. She has her shit together, and if she doesn’t, you’d never know it. I certainly provided “genuine love, kindness, support, guidance, and independence”, but based on her behavior I’m left to assume that such things are worthless, as she’s never once indicated that she lost anything of value.

      • Don’t sell yourself short, WhichWay. The Disordered are great actors with great masks. She could be roiling inside and just hides it well. The good thing is all of your energy and goodness can go to things and people that have souls and matter, instead of these soulless, vapid Cheaters.

        • On her way out, as I was asking how I was supposed to know that she was so unhappy, she said that she isn’t a martyr and doesn’t like showing weakness to others. I exclaimed that as her partner she was supposed to show me her weaknesses, to which she answered that I got to see more than anyone else ever had.

          I know that you’re right about the mask. I thought that she was frustrated but committed, not unhappy to the point of abandonment. I clearly never knew how to read her.

          • Which Way Did She Go, it’s not our job to read other people. At least beyond how they treat us. My opinion, but she is just saying whatever comes to mind and seeing what works.

        • That’s what they do before they discard someone–they devalue the person, in terms of how they think about and treat that person. It has nothing to do with anything the discarded partner did or said, or failed to do or say. They do it because they value no one–not event themselves, in any way the we would understand it.

      • Such things are worthless to the disordered. People like our exes do not value truth, family, and those vows we all took. They value crap, chaos, arrange, so we don’t have much in
        common, do we?! As much as it appears they have it all (and ex has a great job that pays well), the truth is that they don’t. Do they love well? Are things more important? Do they treat people well? Are they present? Engaged? In the moment? Or are they off sneaking around? Evasive? And living the lie? Ex had the perfect family until he chose to fuck it up. Same as yours, WhichWay.

      • Many, many, many cheaters are not “fuckups” in the way they manage jobs, households, social life, intelligence, etc. They are poets, doctors, authors, presidents even. All walks of life.

        They are ALL fuckups in their morals and character. Liars, cheaters, time theives, selfish pigs. So everyone on here’s ex fits that criteria.

      • WhichWay

        What we had to offer had value. Unfortunately, what they value are our very traits. They select us because we have what they are lacking, the ability to genuinely love, empathize, and be kind.

        Giver vs taker, honesty vs deceit, selflessness vs selfishness are the differences between us. They hide until they cannot. I believe she did show you more than anyone else and they protect that false image until the mask starts cracking. You had glimpses I’m sure.

        I never knew the person I loved and raised three children with. He was an illusion. The discard is planned and meant to destroy. These are cruel soulless sub humans.

        The pain associated with realizing they valued nothing is crushing. It’s related to the level of their disorder.

        You did nothing wrong my friend. Nothing.

        • Thank you so much for this. I’ve read it over and over again and will continue to do so for a long time. I wish it would sink in.

  • I almost never confront my ex on things like homework until we are in front of a counselor renegotiating visitation (he takes me back to court a lot). That way he is blindsided in front of the counselor and says the stupidest things, like “my parenting time is supposed to be fun quality time. They need to do hw with mom so I don’t have to spend my visitation time being a mean parent that makes them do hw.” He also shouldn’t have to take them to practice or the doctor or the dentist or birthday parties or have to drive even a mile out of his way. He truly has no idea how ridiculous he sounds and it ends up being hilarious.

  • Oh this one REALLY struck a nerve within me!!! When Asshole moved in with the Whore, I got an email saying that when our son went to visit them, he would be going to “a very loving and happy home”. FUCK you asshole. Loving? You mean like when you don’t require our son to change clothes or take damn shower on those weekends? for months? And I have to email you and TELL you that 9-year-old boys HATE to take showers and you have to MAKE him to do it!! Oh yeah asshole, and CLEAN underwear is necessary. Everyday because, you know 9-year-old boys don’t like to stop playing and go to the damn bathroom when they need to go #2 so he has SHIT in his underwear and won’t tell you. And what email response do I get in return?? Crickets. Silence. Nothing. Asshole.

    And let me tell you, the “love” from the OW has waned. She seems to only tolerate my son’s presence now…a year later. Playing house with him there is just no fun anymore dang it!!

    And, yes, I really feel like I am THE parent. Asshole is so damn lazy, he isn’t even a Disney Dad. That requires EFFORT people. No can do. And my son, the 9-year-old is already negotiating his relationship with his Dad because, guess what?? He doesn’t want to GO. I will remind my son that it’s the weekend he is supposed to go see his Dad and he gets contemplative about it like, “Do I want to go or not?”. If he doesn’t, he can stay home BUT he hasn to work it out with his Dad. And, guess what? He says OK. He doesn’t say, “I had PLANS for us.” or “I miss you and I wanna see you”. No not that. He says, “Well that hurts my feelings.” Motherfucker, get over yourself. What did my son say to that, “I get what you mean”. From the mouth of babes. His Dad is an asshole and he knows it.

    RANT done. Whew. That felt good.

    • Conniered, JBaby and DoingMe, your posts hit on some important aspects of the so called relationship that the cheaters have with their shitty affair partners. These sluts don’t REALLY want to be a caretaker for the kids! Kids were NOT part of the fantasy of the affair! These women just want the romance factor! Not the “icky” aspects of the hard work required to raise a child, especially YOUR child! It stings them! Then of course the triangulation factor is gone because you are usually divorced from the loser you let the bitch have and she can’t dangle that “carrot” anymore! Not to mention the fact that this “hot” relationship has started to get old pretty quick! Yet, these assholes won’t walk away from the deadness and endless boredom of their fuckbuddies they couldn’t live without because they don’t want to admit it was all limerence and infactuation! God forbid they acknowledge the fact that they destroyed whole families for a little rub on their genitalia! Nope, they’ll wait till one or the other locates another “Twu wuv” at work or on a business trip and we’re off to fantasy land again! YUCK! Just YUCK! What a way to live!

      • Roberta you are so right. My child being there stings her. He is probably a lot like me or sees him that way. And of course he is. I am the ONE raising him.

        Asshole won’t leave her because he is a moocher. He’d have to make an effort to leave her. He’s too damn lazy. She thinks his shit stinks so good (and it really stinks) that she literally can not post a thing on FB without tagging him…in EVERY. SINGLE. POST.

        My son does not see his Dad’s place as home or even fun IMO. If it weren’t for the cute cats and dog they have, I wonder how often he would go. I think my son was hoping for a “family” when his Dad moved in with the Whore. She has a son and Dad would no longer be living alone and lonely. Family is not what they have. Whore’s 15-year-old is allowed to spend the entire weekend in his room. He only has to come out to eat. WTF??? But my son gets chastised for eating with his mouth open or not liking what Whore cooks for dinner. He is definitely treated differently. And he feels it.

        I thank Whore for taking him off my hands. It hurt like hell and I still have “triggers” but I am free. Single and free. And I have my son.

        • Conniered, unfortunately I get to see this crap unfold in real life for my daughter and her son! Sperm donor Daddy married an immature, slag with three kids by three different men! She would literally harass, punish and humiliate the poor boy during his court ordered visits to see his Dad! He is now at an age where he has decided he doesn’t have to go through that twice a month. He clearly told his father the shit his slut has done to him and that he cannot stand her! He told his Dad he will be glad to “visit” with him over a pizza or lunch of to an outing, but he will NOT share him with slut and her brood anymore! Daddy didn’t like it, but he NEVER pays his support on time and is so far in arrears he can’t take it to court. By the time he does catch up on his payments, my grandson will be 18! It’s sad, but some kids just know losers when they see them and refuse to subject themselves to the abuse!

          • That is despicable behavior especially from a woman who is a mother already. She is going out of her way to be unkind and abusive.

            My son is supposed to go see his Dad this weekend. I gently reminded him last night. He didn’t say anything at first. Then he asked if he stayed home could he play with his friends. I told him that I am working on Saturday so he would most likely be at my mom’s house. He said he needed to think about it. Then this morning, I told him that the hurricane is going to come near us and bring a lot of rain. He says, “I’m still thinking”. This afternoon, after school, he says he wants to stay home. I told him that he must communicate with his Dad tonight about his wishes. I am not the “boss” of that. He hasn’t called his Dad yet. His friend is here and he is enjoying his time.

            He has a tender heart. I don’t think he has the ability yet to really stand up to his Dad or the Whore about his feelings. Oh he will complain about what is being served for dinner but not the feeling that he is treated differently.

            I’m glad your grandson is advocating for himself!!! It is building his character and it will help him when he is out in the world as an adult developing his own relationships. Good for him!!! His mama is raising him to be strong. And, honestly, kids get to an age where they feel old enough and big enough to say, “Hey!! This isn’t right and I won’t tolerate it anymore!” What a glorious day!!!

  • Oh yes! The old “respect my whore” statement! And exactly why should I do that? Did she respect me? HELL to the NO! She walked all over me, inducing stress, taunting me with phone calls, arranging hotel hook ups while I was suicidal! Oh yeah, she’s a princess!
    I actually got this “demand” via text message from the now Ex while he was in her home. Her husband travelled for business. My Ex and the MOW took advantage of this situation by screwing each other in the marital bed and home she shared with her husband! Surrounded by the gaudy antiques and ultra fashionable amenities that her husband was paying for in their exclusive beachfront home! At the end of the text my husband let me know that our marriage was over with this little line, “we’re through”! After 38 years of marriage. Okay! Fine! Guess he thought Miss Socialite Schmoopie had money or was going to get all the assets her husband provided! Imagine his shock once the divorce came through. This Twat had nothing! She was a loser with no education, no skills (except her ability to be a cum dumpster) and only the cash her husband gave her in his divorce action to get rid of her! She did fancy herself on Linked In as a “make up expert” for Mary Kay, then an “interior design artist” for a short while. Then she went to some year long course to be a Certified Nurse Aid! So now she is divorced, and she wipes old people asses for minimum wage! All thanks to her Facebook love affair with my husband! Are they together today? Hell no! As a matter of fact, she is trying desparately to collect the money she spent on my Ex! She feels he owes her since the relationship didn’t work out! I wonder if he “respects” her for her legalistic and oh so moral opinion on this matter?
    Thank heavens my kids were adults! I never had to deal with the issues that arise in that scenario and my heart goes out to all of you folks who have to deal with those challenges! Thank God you all are the sane parents. It’s hard enough for kids in todays world. They need a strong anchor they can depend on! You all are mighty and I salute you!

    • Seriously, Roberta his whore picked up men at a casino bar. She was used to one night stands. She wasn’t even sparkly just willing to fuck. She was the one who thought she hit the jackpot. He was dating three women and won the prize by fucking him in a HO JO. Her criteria was simple. Dump your wife. The BEST day of my life. Hmm, she has major untreated mental health issues and believed he would support her. Two losers, hooray for us!!

  • My son’s came up with their own nicknames for their father’s girlfriends. I told them that they had to act respectful to all adults — even the awful infantile ones who couldn’t even spell respect — because I expected them to behave like civilized members of society. However, they could think whatever they wanted to think about these so called adults. “No one can control your mind, but YOU must control your tongue.” My son’s were quite the amateur thespians, and they kept me laughing with their impersonations of their father and his harem. They also impersonated me, and I even had to laugh at that. They were quite good at picking up voice quality and phrases, and body language/movements. They nicknamed the Asian woman their father eventually married Hiroshima, because of the meltdowns she would have when their father misbehaved for her. They developed a tolerance for the reality of life with their father, and were much better at separating his sometimes deplorable actions from the love they felt for him as their father, than I was.

    As for how you treat the OW, and the legions that will follow her. I follow the golden rule. If you treat me with respect, I will afford you an equal measure of respect. The OW who knew they were screwing around with a married man had no respect — for me, for themselves, for anyone’s children. After we were divorced, I usually felt sorry for any new victims. I knew what would happen to them, they didn’t. I watched his cycle of behavior repeat over and over and over. My oldest son told me I actually had the best of his father — that the subsequent women had even more to put up with and enjoyed much less of the good part of their dad. I told him having the best of something bad was not quite what I had in mind when I married, but I appreciated his comment.

    I ignored most of what my ex offered as advise, and since I had the boys the majority of the time, I was lucky enough to raise them as I pleased. Since they both completed college and are now members of working America, I am pretty happy with the results. They seem to be responsible young men, and so far, neither has married. I am also happy that they have not rushed into that. They learned from observing their father’s crappy behavior that men who tell lies to seduce women are often unhappy with the women they seduce, and that women who fall for the lies, or expect their seductive behavior to result in material riches for themselves are often unhappy with the results of their actions. Good life lesson.

    The good news for anyone who has had the misfortune to breed with a fuckwit is that time will pass, and the children will grow up, and you can survive this awful fate. Maybe not without scars, but survival is definitely possible.

    • I tried to reason with my now ex (impossible to reason or shine light into darkness) that a woman who goes out for drinks (and whatever else they did after getting kicked out of the bar at midnight) with a married man until 1:30 in the morning is not someone of good character. So, yeah. He traded down to his own level. He found someone just like him, a person of poor character. That’s what he deserves and he deserves all that comes with being involved with someone like this.

      • You cannot reason with a selfish cheater with no soul. He absolutely did trade down to someone his level with horrible character. The karma bus is driving around town and always stops there. They definitely get what they deserve… sometimes when it happens, they’re so disordered, they don’t understand why bad shit happens to them! Duh!

  • My SBXH wrote me an email, on a Friday evening, with subject “More respect”. As usually, he put our lawyers in CC, to give himself more centrality.
    “I want you to stop calling a whore, prostitute and any other irrespectful way. she does not deserve it”
    I had to literally bite my lips and only replied “the other woman’s conduct has been beyond disrespectful. I have no interest in hearing one more word about your affair partner(s).”

    The next email he wanted me to call her by her name. No way I’m going to EVER acknowledge her. Now she is haunting my family’s Fb pages.

    • My X got FURIOUS that I did not use his name in a grey rock email about who was to claim my oldest college-age daughter on our taxes. I merely started, “Hello,”….

      His response reminded me of this:

      • Tempest, I don’t use cheater’s name either – when I’m talking to someone or in the rare instance I have to email. Like you, the last time I emailed him (ironically, to remind him not to claim her on his taxes), I opened with Hey.

        When I’m speaking with someone, I usually say my ex, D’s dad, etc. or if they’re a close friend that knows the situation, I’ll refer to him as dumbass, etc. I think it’s a detachment thing for me.

  • There is no co-parenting with a fuckwit. It can’t be done in my opinion. I do not respond to “treat me with respect” bating. It’s very difficult to do but I learned the hard way that they love to get into it with you. Kibbles!

    If there is a question about daughter I answer it, in text or email. If he tries to bait me with anything else I ignore it. I just ignore it- dead air. And when I respond to questions its “yes”, “no” or “let me think on that.” Facts only. I found this way reduced his overall need to communicate with me and stir the pot.

    Daughter is learning about her father’s unfortunate ways. He’s a loser and the less I interfere in that, the more she is able to see clearly who he is. These cheaters ALWAYS reveal themselves. When my daughter is with me, it’s quiet, sane and predictable around our home.

  • Ok, so I’m new at this, but I’d like to share and get some feedback. Co-parenting doesn’t work for me. I think it’s fine for people who honorably ended their union and went their separate ways.

    I was lied to, betrayed, and deceived while my kids’ father carefully crafted a double life at our expense causing the destruction of our family. Very different.

    I am trying parallel parenting. My girls know their dad did not honor our wedding vows but still need to establish some sort of relationship with him, and they are older (13 and 14). This style of parenting puts the entire relationship between them only. Not me.

    Of course, I coached them on how to set strong boundaries in the beginning (Dad, I am uncomfortable when you spend the majority of our time together texting someone else on your phone. I need you to interact with me like I am trying to do with you. Do you think you can do that?) They are remarkably great at asking for what they need on their own and seeing if he can deliver. Or not. They are very practical about what he can manage. (He doesn’t usually tell the truth, Mom.) And about what is a deal breaker for them.

    Importantly, this supports NC which is incredibly important to my recovery. (Thanks AOK and CL!) And I can’t be blamed for anything, am not put in the middle, never have to cover for him, and am in a better position to refrain from bad-mouthing him. I know my girls are smart and strong enough to decide what kind of relationship they are able to have with their dad.

    If he wants to come to DD2’s volleyball game, he logs on to the school’s parent portal and checks the schedule.
    When he comes, we sit separately and don’t speak but both support our daughter.

    He bought them phones and pays the bill so he can call and say good night to them, and it doesn’t involve me. Sometimes they block him. They work it out.

    They also work out exchanges. They check with me, but I am very flexible so it’s easy for them and I can appear supportive. In reality, he hardly has time for them and can’t have them overnight because he lives with the OW. His choice. I have them most of the time. My awesome kids ask me if Friday is good to see him and then call him and say, “No we can’t see you tonight because we have to study. How about Friday?”

    If he had the nerve to send me an email like that, I would just delete it. All other forms of communication between him and me are blocked (important!). I would not expect him to ever be responsible for homework as he can barely even plan a decent social outing with them. (He cannot even have a genuine, meaningful conversation either.) They suck.

    Parents with littles or scarily irresponsible X’s have the worst deal ever. Again, they suck. And I’m so sorry they suck. Kids shouldn’t have to deal with any of this.

    • It sounds like you have this parallel parenting thing nailed! Good for you! My child is also 14 but he is much younger than his age would imply. He has a very simple view of the world and believes that STBX and I should continue to joke and laugh and be friends like we always were (when I was being lied to and cheated on but didn’t know it.) I have done my best to speak neutrally about STBX and have definitely shown my resilience to my son at all times (even if I am dying inside sometimes.) I just remind myself that as others have already stated, I was definitely always single parenting anyway and doing it with him living in the next state is really much, much better for everyone involved. I refuse to spend the last precious years of parenting being upset and confrontational with STBX. I love being a mom and I am more than pleased to let my close-to-NC silence send a resounding FU message to its intended target.

    • neverwouldhaveimagined, you’re awesome! “Sometimes they block him.” I love your girls. They are smart ladies. I think they’ll grow with strong boundaries. And you know what’s beautiful in all this? You get some parenting lesson for them at each step, each corner of their relationship with their father. You’re the sane parent. You’re their rock. Great job!

      You’re right, it works when kids are bigger. My son is just 2 and he is getting accustomed to this crazy situation. Never in a million years I wished this for my child. But now I see clearly my path: I must be his mom and dad, I must be his everything. I must be healthy, mentally strong, financially secure (which I am, thankfully). He has great grandparents (my parents) and we’ll be fine.

  • I had the pleasure yesterday afternoon of explaining to my son why it is that I will not be pleasantly chatting with his father when we are both attending the high school football game on Friday night to watch son march in the halftime show. He is confused and thinks that I am being rude or mean to dad. I had to explain to him that when someone treats you very badly, you are no longer under any obligation the exchange pleasantries and sit together with them at functions. There will be no unpleasant scene because I do not plan to notice him in a very large crowd. I will be with friends and having fun. He will either sit by himself or even possibly bring a date. Either way, he will internally be feeling very uncomfortable and I wouldn’t dream of making even the slightest gesture that would ease that discomfort. #consequencesforassholes

  • Why does a 10 year old still need homework assistance? Surely she is old enough to feel responsible for her own homework.

    • Depends on the child. Mine is a boy and has severe ADD … I will be helping him remember to do his homework when he is 60 …

    • She doesn’t need assistance in my house. She comes home and does it. However, when Disney land dad shows up to pick her up for the weekend it’s vacation.
      She did get in trouble for it which she quickly called him to complain because mom was not being nice about it.
      This is where this wonderful email from him stems from.

    • There are lots of reasons, Mary. Some kids do not have the organizational skills at 10 to manage homework without some help.

      Some homework requires parental assistance. Throughout elementary school my kids brought home assignments at different times that required them to ask parents questions and record the answers, required parents to review each week’s reading log and make a written comment on it, sign off on assignments of various sorts, and one math teacher that required my child to “teach” me how to do the week’s main concept on a worksheet every weekend.

      I did not love all of these approaches to homework, but the fact of the matter is that helping kids succeed in school is a parental responsibility a good deal of the time.

    • She’s 10. Look how derailed all of us became when we found out our HUSBANDS’ sucked. Just stop and think for a second how that derails a ten year old child. We can divorce or we can stay and do whatever but that little girl had ZERO part in this so if her daddy didn’t make homework a priority and she was getting to visit him then we have NO reason to act all self righteous about her 10 year old ability to just accept this shit sandwich. Please let’s stop pouring onto kids what we ourselves couldn’t deal with.

  • I thank God every day of my life that my sweet beautiful wonderful daughter never once had to interact with the slimy, low moraled, easy lay, piece of shit whore that my ex was cheating with. I cannot stand the thought if her being in the same room with that slag.

    I found out he sent the whore a photo of my child once, and i think that pissed me off more than any other thing the pos ever did. Our children should never have to be around these sluts much less “respect” them.

  • And these losers having sex/getting blown when their children in the room? Taping it? I have no words for how badly these people disgust me.

  • I was approached by the cuntress to make ‘peace’after she repeatedly harassed me in public. I ignored the cruel sadistic comments (how does it feel to be alone, your hair is getting grey) for months and months.

    My reply to her wanting to make peace was, “Of all the whores he has picked up in 41 years you are by far the ugliest and most disgusting picking up men an giving them blow jobs.” She was furious. My children are disgusted by her lack of class, obvious drug addiction,arrest records, mental illness, and entitlement. They have called her the cunt whore, crazy woman and Nanthony.

    I believe they have very little respect for his deplorable actions and see him for the lying, cheating narc. What a legacy to leave your children.

  • My stbxw is not a horrible parent – she is very responsible when it comes to getting the kids what they need for school, arranging visits to the dentist, etc. It’s just where the OM comes in that there have been problems, like the time she was with him and failed to meet my daughter at the airport at 6:30 am. Or the times she has pawned DS off with friends to go fuck her new buddy. Or the time my son and I called her from our camping trip, thinking she was on a “girls only” triup to the beach, only to find out that she had flown to Florida to see him! Or the time she went and got her hair done with our daughter, then wore our daughter’s dress to go fuck the new guy. Or this last weekend, when she told me she was getting him school clothes and instead introduced son to OM over a game of darts. I’ve had it. I’m so mad I can barely see straight. I don’t fucking understand.

    • Good grief. I can’t imagine how you could understand this kind of behavior. I hope you know how lucky your kids are to have a sane parent who doesn’t treat them like potted plants. Eventually, they will probably realize they are lucky to have you too.

    • Oaktree – seems like she’s hell-bent on having the kids get to know him so they’ll tell YOU what an awesome guy he is. She just wants to control the narrative.

    • I think the problem is these “other” people are coming and going. Anybody would just settle if there was just one OM.

    • OakTree

      How is she not a horrible parent? What you described was a lack of responsibility and selfish behavior.

      Wearing her daughters dress? Doccument and rethink. Narcs USE children.

  • Great post, CL, and as usual a very enlightening discussion.

    What caught my attention in the letter is what wasn’t said. LoneStar tells us,”I don’t sugarcoat this relationship to my daughter and my disgust with his behavior and his affair partner’s behavior.” We know that mean when Daughter came home with homework undone, LoneStar laid a lot of the blame on the X because the undone homework “didn’t sit well with” LoneStar.

    The next thing we see is the email, in which X says he’s spoken with the daughter and he upbraids LoneStar for upsetting her. And so on.

    What we don’t see is the daughter’s conversation with the X. But we can surmise that Daughter reported to her father not just that the homework wasn’t done, but that she was “upset” at the discussion with LS and that LS spoke badly about the X (and perhaps the OW). “Mom was mean!!! And angry!!!”

    This is classic triangulation, carried out by a child. Both parents are using this daughter as the pawn in their continuing post-divorce war. The daughter gains enormous, and corruptive, power because she can leverage her parents into combat by email. My former therapist called this a game of “let’s you and him fight.” This sort of triangle is terrible for kids in all sorts of ways. First, it teaches them that you can manipulate others and cover up your own misdeeds by starting conflict. That of course is a classic cheater blame shift. The daughter shifts the blame to her mother by telling her dad the story; she may well have blamed the dad for the homework not being done. We don’t know the truth in either case, but we can see that the daughter created a huge uproar when all she should have done was said, “I didn’t do my homework. It’s my fault.” Had she told her father (based on his reply) he most likely would have not provided the entertainment until the HW was done or at least planned for.

    Second, it provides her with a very unhealthy way to force her parents to interact, perhaps out of her deep hope for reconciliation. Years ago, I dated a man who had 2 teenage girls. One of the daughters took to getting drunk every night. And every night her mother would call the Dad X and get him to come over in the middle of the night to deal with it. Over and over. This kid was desperate to get them into the same room and drinking did the trick. What my friend did was assert the boundary: don’t call me unless you are prepared to see me take her to rehab. The end of that set of episodes. Same kid tried the game using truancy and wanting to “move in with Dad” because she hated her school–until he said you’ll have to work 40 hours per week if you drop out. This is how bad it can get when divorced parents don’t keep the kids out of the wrong interactions.

    I’m not defending this cheater or the abusive way he gets into “you must respect Skankella.” But the Cheater X is right about at least part of the solution: the parents need to communicate directly, when necessary, and LEAVE THE KID OUT OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID BETWEEN THEM.

    That said, LS can ask Daughter to email her father a list the homework due on Monday before she departs. Then if it doesn’t get done, LS should just say, “That was a poor choice,” document, and move on. Consequences will occur in the form of grades.

    So Lonestar, don’t let your daughter triangulate. You can hate your X with a white hot passion, but take that feeling here or out for coffee with your best friend. Understand that some of this behavior might be about getting you to interact with Dad X. Don’t take the bait. What CL and our fellow chumps said fills in the rest. If you need to see a therapist to practice how to talk to Daughter without opening yourself up to charges of being hostile and negative. You are absolutely right about how outrageous the request to respect the OW is–but you wouldn’t be getting that outrageous request if you could be neutral about your X. If you use the Family Wizard, that will help you remember to write civil, but gray rock, emails. Protect yourself. Document what he does. Don’t give him anything to document.

    • Wow LJ, that is deep. And, admittedly, it will sting a bit if Lone Star reads it. Sometimes the truth is ugly.

      I see merit in what you say and it’s great advice. Kids don’t need to see our anger. It is often palatable, holding an almost ghostly form of existence. REAL. They need to see us strong (when we are vulnerable) or gray rock (when we want to explode) and happy (when we don’t feel it 100%). And most of all, they need to see us loving them, SEEING them and their unspoken needs for affection, security, safety.

      It is a complete injustice the way we have been betrayed and humiliated. We have been lied TO and lied about to others. It’s fucking revolting that we have to navigate a justice system that does not see the injustice of infidelity from our experience. Nor do they see the impact it has beyond the explosion of the marriage and family. The consequences are larger and longer lasting than most realize. Not just the betrayed spouses or the abandoned kids. It affects friendships, how society views marriage in general….

      Lone Star, find an outlet for your righteous anger so that you can feel good again and be better for your daughter. Be better than that stupid cheater and his asshole OW. Show your daughter that you rise above the fray.

      Hugs, Lone Star.

      • Children don’t need to see our anger but guess what??? In divorce they do see it because divorce sucks and it does take a toll on the children. Yes it would be different (maybe) in a civil divorce where two people made a mutual decision to prt ways but in this cases of infidelity no. The kids are the victims and no matter how much you try to protect them it’s not possible. Try telling your child “your mom kidnapped you and stole you from me and now you have to live so far away”. Really? How about telling your child guess what I cheated, I behaved inappropriately and the result is losing you and losing my family. Yes I get to see you 20% of the year but I have now chosen to be with someone else and I am ok being a 20% dad. That’s more fair…
        Let’s blame the mom for trying to be a good parent and step up to the plate in a job where it requires two people to handle.

        • Chump Change, don’t misunderstand, I feel you. We can not hide all our pain, anger and grief from our children. You are absolutely right about that. But, as CL as mentioned before, we have to be the sane parent no matter what the asshole cheaters do. We have to hide some of our pain, anger and grief to parent them the best we can. They will see it sometimes and I honestly think that is ok and right also. They need to see that we are human and that even though we hurt and get angry, we have self control. We must model healthy ways to manage and express our feelings. That’s what I was trying to say. And….easier said than done I know.

          It absolutely takes a toll on the children. We can’t prevent that when we respect ourselves enough to walk away from disgusting cheaters.

          I don’t blame or judge anyone for what is said or done to cheaters or because of cheaters. That includes Lone Star. I get it. I’m there WITH you. I STILL get angry and I’m 2 years out from DDay. Maybe it’s still early days for me. I don’t know.

          Cheaters being honest about their asshole-ish ways though??? When pigs fly. I mean, if they had THAT kind of character, they wouldn’t have cheated in the first place.

      • I don’t want it to sting, for sure. LS is clearly a great parent, with more than her share of shit sandwiches on the buffet. But I think she can make sure her kiddo isn’t stirring the pot, either by accident or on purpose or unconsciously. Her D is young enough that they can both can get through the worst of this before adolescence hits.

  • A man pulls down his pants and proceeds to shit all over your kitchen. Instead of murdering him, which he deserves, you roll up your sleeves and get out the Clorox wipes.
    He leans smugly against the counter, arms folded, rolls his eyes. There you go with your antics again! I need you to RESPECT my decision to shit explosively where you eat.
    Is that gross? To my mind…what’s the difference between that and these entitled vicious motherless fucks?

    *This is an angry day. The betrayal….it scalds my guts.

    • No difference sylvia. A fuckwad is a asswipe is a shithead. I have my angry days too. Fuck my former asswipe and your asswipe. We are free to be! As soon as i move i can be better at peace. We gotta have lunch one day i have a warm hug for you!

    • Let it out, Sylvia. (not entirely a poop joke) The bitter’er the better here in Chump Nation.

      Oaktree, and I think another dad yesterday, said their kid’s slutty mom had introduced their child to the OM. It’s a small thing, but in my mind this is evidence that she hasn’t changed and is only waiting for the chance to cheat on OM. Why? Because even though she has no reason to lie to you about taking the kids to meet him, albeit within the bounds of abiding by the custody agreement, she can’t even manage that one simple task. “Hey, chump. I’m gonna take your child to meet my stunt-dick. I know you hate the fuck out of me and want to murder him, but he’s gonna be in my life, and I think I love him. No, I love him. He’s the best.. You are nothing but a sickly little boy compared to him, and you’re not even worthy enough to pick up his flesh-mops after I blow him. So, yeah. They’re gonna meet.” Nope, instead she just does whatever she wants. No remorse. No introspection. No improved behavior. Just another narcissist on a tear. I might be inflating this behavior but it seems meaningful.

      A little karma bus news. Many of you know my 68 year-old mother was chumped and then 7 years ago became the OW to a 35 year marriage. Well after he left his wife for my mother, and gave his wife the house, boat, and truck, my mother broke up with him in July. They finished moving out of their little love shack of five years yesterday. My sister and I are disgusted with mother’s behavior and the two of them are steaming piles of pain. So, while I don’t even believe in cosmic justice, gods, karma, what have you, I do believe that bad decisions based on genital stimulation can have massive and long lasting financial and emotional consequences than can lead to a squandered retirement and a life of despair. Yay!

  • Despite your negative attitude and antics, we are building a life together and only want the best for our daughter. I would appreciate you respect my relationship with OW when it comes to your interactions with our daughter and try not to cause undo stress with her.

    No matter how hard I try, I can only think of three words for how I would respond, “Fuck you, asshole.

    Where was his considerateness when OW was still just his client? By only changing two possessive pronouns, here’s what the cheater SHOULD have said to his client, “Despite your negative attitude and antics, MY WIFE AND I are building a life together and only want the best for our daughter. I would appreciate you respect my relationship with MY WIFE when it comes to your interactions with our daughter and try not to cause undo stress with her.

    • Amen!! Couldn’t agree more!! These assholes never think of how their actions caused the worst pain to their wife and children. It truly baffles me how they have no moral agency, yet claim to be the pillars of integrity and wisdom. They are delusional!!!

  • Oh this post made my skin scrawl- I just want to slap that lying, cheating, blamshifting, self- righteous asshole! How dare he send you that email?! These guys are all the same, they truly have no concept of reality. I told my STBX I thought he was a liar and he said that was my opinion and not the truth. Really?! So the cheating, trips with the OW, repeatedly denying the affair as you looked into my eyes and pledged your undying love yet continued to fuck her was you being an honest person?! You are not alone, cheaters are all the same. Hang in there! You will soon learn how to navigate this new life. Even though it seems like a total fucking nightmare now, I believe you and your daughter will make it to the other side better and stronger.

    • repeatedly denying the affair as you looked into my eyes and pledged your undying love yet continued to fuck her was you being an honest person?! THIS*

  • This shit makes me nuts! Trust and respect are things that must be earned over time. At this time both the X and OW have shown that they are not to be trusted and their affair was completely disrespectful of you and your daughter. “Negative attitude and antics”, this coming from a lying, cheating, abandoning, morally reprehensible douchenozzle is some Caligula level shit.

    Wishing you strength and peace Lonestar

  • My X could have written this email, in fact, for a second I thought I was reading one of his old emails. Not because the situations are exactly parallel, but because of the obnoxious tone. “But rather” is absolutely one of X’s favorite phrases to use when he gets on his high horse to mansplain something to me in his pompously disordered fashion.

    I stopped trying to refute, debate, or answer his lectures and rebukes and it really has helped. It’s one of the hardest aspects of NC, though!

  • The timing of this is so good. I really needed to hear that. My ex won’t help my older daughter in university and my younger one in beasties with OW. I am frustrated by being single parent to a student in need of financing and betrayed by an easily influenced pre-adolescent. Sometimes I just hate the world for not being fair but I don’t feel I have the luxury of just giving up as he often disappears and I’m the one who steps up when they need someone to rely on. So, on I slog, in hopes that someday I will be surrounded by happy, loving, well-brought up children and grandchildren.

    • My 10 year old was thrown into meeting the hoe over the summer while he had her during his 6 weeks of vacation. She told him she just wanted to spend the summer with him and his mom but he “surprised” her with a camping trip in the Idaho mountains when the OW in her camping trailer with her two children show up for the big family trip.
      My daughter spent a few days in the woods and a couple more at hoes house where he also resides. They baked cookies (gag) and whatever else. She now likes her and yes I do fee betrayed but I also have to remember she is 10 and at 10 someone could have given me a piece of candy and id end up liking them. I know that she needs a relationship with her loser dad but I don’t like that she has to be around these disgusting whore. And by the way she was also cheated on by her ex husband so go figure. Lots of scorn women out there who are out for blood.

      • Of everything we have to deal with, this is the hardest part! How the selfish cheaters and APa continue to use, hurt and confuse the children for kibbles because they are entitled to everyone’s respect!! No one is entitled to respect – it is earned!
        I also think their eventual pursuit of the kids has more to do with getting chumps where they know it will hurt us the most than love and the well-being of the children.

  • “Respect my relationship with the other woman”…….Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…..NO!

    • Lone Star,

      Congrats! Texas – it’s not quite as big as Alaska. Srsly tho. Native Texan here to say – enjoy the heat, I hear it’s gonna cool off come November.

      This nutsack certainly sounds like a moron. Judging by his writing skills he’s nearly illiterate too. Does he drool when he talks? Can he chew gum while fucking his whore?

      I love it how cheaters accuse chumps of being negative. Match Girl did that to me. I was hate texting her in December. “You suck. Where is my dog.” Something like that. Her response? “When did you get so negative?” Well, it was probably when you decided to fuck that steroid addled ugmo. But I played it cool and texted her back. “I’m negative? Yeah, I guess maybe I am after you had me take a picture for you to text him of the new hairdo, outfit and shoes I picked out with you to go fuck him. Yeah, I’m a little bit negative.”

      Top work, Chump Lady. I counted 14 “fucks” in your writing today. Feels good to let all this anger out.

      • Lol, I didn’t think his literary skills were that great but this is pretty bad I must admit. I laughed when I read it however, I do think this was actually written by his hoe. She is a high school graduate who is now a “successful” truck company COO working for none other than her daddy. I am willing to bet that with her literary skills she couldn’t even get a job at Walmart. Two mo-rons who found each other in of all places I- Da- Ho, isn’t that grand.
        I don’t ever have a reason to email or text him. He tries to text but has found that he is blocked. I’m usually the one responding to the emails which are always accusatory and full of hate.

      • My STBX left me and our two kids for his secretary OW; good at adulation and fellatio. They decided to move in together and pulled up to my place when they thought I was out of town with a Uhaul to move items out, unannounced. I helped him carry out a piece of furniture (yep, chump) and told him and her that they both owed me an apology. He stated, “OW has done nothing wrong” over and over again.

        Trust that they suck!

  • In the year preceding D-Day, XH was often angry and critical with me. I often thought to myself, “He has a hair-trigger temper and wears it on his chest like a badge of honor.” I now realize he was devaluing me to rationalize his affair in his mind. He angrily denied everything in the D-Day confrontation. I thought if I could make him angry enough by putting down OWhore, that he would confess in an attempt to protect her. I told him she was ugly, she was built like a beanpole, she was a whore, she stunk, Popeye called and wanted his chin back, Snoopy called and wanted his nose back and that if she would fuck him, a married man, she would fuck other married men, and if he thought she was tight, it wasn’t because she was virtuous, it was because she was fucking little dicks. He did not get angry, not one bit, because according to him, I imagined all this and “I don’t know that woman.” This proved to me that abusive anger is all an act, designed to intimidate and shut down the flow of communication, and they can control it if they choose to do so.

  • In my head, “He sucks, he is unreliable, he is an ass.” outward me, “Sure, whatever”. I know child will meet AP when I least expect it. I know he will try to sell it as the bestest thing evah. I know he will not help, enforce my rules, participate in any meaningful way. I will be nice to AP and they will never know my thoughts on the matter because my feelings are not going to be exposed to that fool again. I will treat her like a grocery clerk. In my head, “What a loser homeless crab shelter”, outward me “How are you? Nice weather…”

    Says me now. Ha! He always manages to undershoot my lowest expectations.

  • I’m new to this site, but I can tell I’ll like it very much.

    This is a fantastic post and I’m sure all the others are as well.

    Thank you, CL and all.

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