What Married Men Tell Other Women
Hi Chump Lady!
I would love you to write about “What married men tell other women, to get them to join them in the affair.” Such as my wife doesn’t pay attention to me, we no longer have intimacy, we stay together for the kids, my wife is going through menopause , she no longer turns me on… blah… blah… blah.
I know a married woman who’s having an affair with a married man, and she thinks he’ll leave his wife for her. It’s very obvious to me that she’s just another number on his mistress list. Please write! I’d love to share that article with her.
A Friend
Dear Friend,
Your enlightenment energies would be better spent informing the OW’s clueless chump, rather than trying to convince the OW she’s not exceptional. I appreciate your faith in my powers of snark, but sarcasm has its limits. Remember the Dr. Simon axiom — “It’s not that they don’t see, it’s that they disagree.”
It’s not that the OW doesn’t KNOW she’s an Other Woman, it’s that she disagrees that this will end catastrophically. Those other, Other Women weren’t THE ONE! And when you have that kind of super special once-in-a-lifetime connection on Ashley Madison? (Because HEY, there were like THOUSANDS of ads! and he picked HER! And she’s not even a cyborg from Russia!) Then you know it’s REAL.
Do you see what I’m getting at, Friend? You can’t talk sense to fuckwits. But I suspect that isn’t your true mission so much as curating the Stupid Shit Cheaters Say to Other Cheaters.
I can help with that. Chump Lady is nothing so much as a repository of Stupid Shit Cheaters Say.
In fact, I’m sure many chumps here have unearthed correspondence and discovered exactly what their married partners said to their witless enablers… and we still need brain bleach to forget.
My wife doesn’t pay attention to me.
So instead of trying to get her attention, by say wearing a giant chicken suit and waving a banner at passing trucks along the interstate (“I’VE ALWAYS LOVED YOU, DARLENE! LOOK AT ME!!!”), I thought why not just secretly fuck random women I meet online? Like you. You’ll do.
I need a lot of attention. Did I ever tell you about that time I was a National Merit Scholar in 1983? Gonzo test scores! The likes of which Brandon Township had never seen before. Me. Me. Me. Memmeemmememememememeemmeemememmememe. Were you expecting this conversation to turn to you?
You’re a good listener. My wife doesn’t listen like you do.
We don’t have sex.
Except for when we do. And those, uh, children that came from somewhere. And that bed we share.
But we don’t have sex!
And if my wife asks me? I don’t have sex with you either! (We meet for Bible study. As friends.) And if you ask me about those other, Other Women? Never touched ’em.
My cheater mindfuck channel is set at “sad sausage.” Want to touch my sausage?
We stay together for the kids.
My suffering is noble. While my wife appliance shuttles kids to T-ball practice and dentist appointments, I’m here with you. #fatheroftheyear But I can’t leave my wife appliance, because — have you ever sat through a T-ball practice? Those wretched folding chairs, the interminable boredom, the piss-warm Gatorade.
I’d love to spend more time with you, avoiding T-ball, but I’ve come, and you haven’t, and so it’s time to leave. Back to home and hearth, where those little barnacles need me. I’ll be thinking of you! Text me a picture of your tits!
My wife is going through menopause.
Which means she’s at least 15 years past her sell-by date. My balls may be sagging and my ears may sprout tufts of scraggle-hair, but I deserve some fresh ass. You look younger and gullible, and utterly lacking in self-esteem! Are you still ovulating? Great!
Of course, I don’t want any more babies. (Hell, I’ve got grandchildren I don’t know what to do with.)
She no longer turns me on.
Actually, it doesn’t take much to turn me on. A stiff breeze, an errant thought of National Geographic, those Sears ads for thermal underwear. Fact is, I’m a walking boner (especially with a little pharmaceutical assistance). And I’m ALL YOURS! (See “I need a lot of attention” above.)
My wife? Oh no. Wouldn’t touch her with a barge pole. Of all the 3,454,788 things that turn me on, she’s not one! No sir! Just YOU! You’re special!
(Short bus special. That’s what I tell my other, Other Woman. I have no idea who this crazy woman is and why she’s so into me! I tried to turn her down gently, but she won’t take the hint! No, no she doesn’t turn me on at all.)
Feeling off balance? Nothing a little pick me dance can’t cure. Ooh, that waitress sure is pretty! I’d hate for you to Not Turn Me On anymore. Naked video chat later?
***
Well, that’s about all I can stand, Friend. CN, add your own. Do tell that chump, please. Happy Tuesday everyone!
He told one of the other women that our baby we lost to miscarriage was a child from a fictitious affair I had. So it “didn’t matter” that the baby died.
My mind is blown. That is one of the most obscene things I’ve ever heard. I’m so sorry for your terrible loss and that the soulless bastard said that. Like my Mom always said, consider the source.
Aloha,
Every time I think I’ve heard the worst of the fuckshit, there is a story that just takes the fuckshit level to a new low. So as if the fatigue and hormone surge associated with carrying a baby while caring for another child isn’t enough, your Ex felt the need to spread some extra shit icing on the shit cake you unwittingly believed was a relationship.
There is no apology that can ever make up for what baby bitchman said to you, but I will extend a most heartfelt apology for that most incredibly awful thing he said to you and another one for every day you had to live with that walking piece of vomit disguised as a human. And here’s a virtual (((HUG))) to replace the one he probably never gave you when you needed it.
I think it is so common for cheaters to “project” their cheating on us chumps. I was accused of having affairs with all the women in my divorce support group during our divorce. She definitely didn’t like it when I got the emotional support to file!
Of course they do this because if we’re cheating on them then it’s OK for them to do it to us. In their minds two wrongs really do make a right and they could never be wrong therefore we must be cheating. I got it too. And since Narkles the Clown traveled so much and I held down a full time high stress job and took care of the child and house I must have been cheating during those 30 seconds a week I used to….oh wait I didn’t even have 30 seconds to myself for anything. I couldn’t find the time to shave or get a hair cut or even floss on most days, but I must have been having an affair because it was the only way he could justify having an affair.
I was just thinking this, TwinsDad. My X had many women “friends” starting even before we got married. He’d go out to lunch or dinner with them. I was supposed to be okay and not jealous. “Everyone” did this, especially in college. So the one and only time in our 24 year relationship/marriage, I asked him if I could meet my guy friend from high school the day after our high school reunion for about an hour or two. I didn’t see any problem with either asking or going since he’d been doing that our entire relationship. My guy friend picked me up at my moms house (in town for the reunion) and even came in to say hi and goodbye to my X, my kids and my mom. A week after this meeting my X said to me, “Well, if you are pregnant, we know it’s not my baby (X had a vasectomy).!” I got accused of having sex with a friend from high school. This after he had all these women “friends” all those years and also I was pretty convinced he had an affair when I was pregnant. So he was projecting his own behavior onto me!! It all makes sense now that I know about projection. At the time I couldn’t figure out why he’d say that to me. I’m not surprised you X said that to you. Those cheaters are all the same!
Oh yes. I got “Men are only friends with women for one reason, the possibility of sex.” This was why I couldn’t speak to any male not family without him throwing a fair and accusing me of sleeping with them. …bit when I asked him why he had so many female friends if that was the case? …. lots of “that’s not true: I’m different: etc”
There is true evil in this world. AlohaFreedom, I am so sorry for your loss. We both found Satan unfortunately. About 1 week after POSH left me and our baby, who was only 3 weeks old at the time, he told me “I wish you both would just die tonight. It would make my life so much easier”.
His remark just made my jaw literally swing open. My eyes are popping. I’m not kidding. The shock and horror of a comment like that to me, a complete stranger……..well, I cannot begin to fathom what it made you feel. If there is a Hell, I hope he gets there soon.
Wow, IIWII and Aloha, you survived some vile partners. Despicable. So glad you are free.
Another demon walking the earth, your STBX. Fuckwad to the extreme.
IIWII, that’s a death threat, pure and simple, disguised as a wish. I hope you and your baby are far away from him,
Thank you everyone. I am keeping him at a distant. I have implemented no contact as much as possible. However, he is still part of my daughter’s life…when it is convenient for him at least. There are a lot of things looking back on that were signs of emotional, verbal, and mental abuse which eventually turned physical right before giving birth that I ignored. He still mentally and emotionally abuses me which is why I have to be no contact. Even on the family website used for communication that is court mandated.
IIWI,
Hearing your story I am so sorry! This is where the law should be that he can never see his daughter because he left her as well as you to fend for yourselves. He deserves to never has access to your daughter or you. He should be locked up and throw away the key. Then he can sit in a cell alone and write journals about what a sociopath and Fuckwit he is.
That brought tears to my eyes. There are no words to express the repugnance. So sorry for you and your beautiful baby.
“…..it would make my life so much easier.” One of the worst examples of the “its all about ME, ME, ME” syndrome of these psychopaths I’ve heard. So glad you’re rid of him.
IIWII, congratulations on escaping with your life. A person who could say something like that is extremely dangerous. I hope he’s out of your life for good.
Wow! IIWII, I can not even imagine your pain at hearing that. What an inhuman, scumbag. Power to you for hanging in there! Praying you’re doing well, and that you’ve moved on without that P.O.S.
To think that we once loved and trusted these evil monsters. I’m so sorry you had to hear these hateful words, IIWII, particularly when you and your little baby were at your most vulnerable. Big hugs for you!
ugh that’s a new low. Sorry for your loss AlohaFreedom
You can make yourself sick thinking about this shit (and I do, unfortunately). But there is a special weird oblivious part to a woman who chooses to date a married man and believes what she wants. Many of these schmoopies are ex wives themselves…So, WTF?
When I was suddenly hospitalized for grand mal seizures (you know, the sexy kind), my DOCTOR husband was “outprocessing” from the military so he could not fly out right away…
= screwing the tundra Schmoopie. I have no idea what he told her but my guess is, nothing.
When he left for the tundra and blocked me from accessing our joint accounts AND had me sign a waiver of rights (hey, I was fucked up neurologically and our son is testifying to that),
I have no idea what he told Schmoopie, but my guess is, nothing.
When our kids stopped speaking to him, I have no idea what he told tundra Schmoopie, but my guess is nothing.
But what if she noticed AND IF she dared to ask? – then my guess is that I “brainwashed them”.
I’m only now starting to dip my toe in the dating pool. And if/when I notice little or no contact between kids and a man I might date – I just won’t see him.
Even if his wife really did bad mouth him, there are guys out there who don’t have ex’s like that, and I don’t want any more red flags as it is.
Oh my goodness gracious. There are no words.
So sorry for your loss <3
What a Twisted POS.
That comment just stops you in your tracks, evil.
That is on the top of vile things I’ve heard. Sadly, I can understand it issuing forth from the mouth of a cheater. Why? Because in CheaterVerse, they’re central. That comment about your miscarriage illustrates the sense of the Cheater’s centrality more clearly than anything else. A normal person hearing this would think “monster” and run the opposite direction. The AP? Not so much, and that tells you about APs.
Oh, dear Lord, that is HORRIBLE. I don’t even know what to say to that.
AF
So sorry. Unimaginable to think how disturbed one has to be to say something so cruel.
I am so sorry. Sadly, that is what disordered people do. They use a tiny bit of truth, twist and distort it until it looks the way they want it to.
I hope Karma bites his tongue off.
What a douche…
I hate your X and the horse he rode in on.
I hate him and the whore he ride in on.
Thank you for the editorial improvement! LOL.
orry, “rode.” We need an edit function.
OMG. May internal parasites eat him from the inside out. Slowly and painfully.
Yes, hideous nematodes that spread to every organ, ending in him having fountains of worms spraying from every orifice
What a fucker. That is so low.
Yeah, just when we think we have heard every vile story, every possible terrible thing, we get a man who dismisses the miscarriage of his child–says it “doesn’t matter–and at the same time tells a heinous lie about his again pregnant wife who suffered that miscarriage and is caring for his other infant at home. Seriously, I can’t say how fortunate you are, Aloha, to be rid of this vermin. This is betrayal on almost every level other than deliberate murder. So very sorry for the loss of your child and for the pain this f*ckwit has put you through.
LAJ, vermin is right. He is evil. Aloha, I am sorry you had to go through that. Thank heavens he is in the rear view mirror.
I am so sorry you had to know that came from the mouth of someone you loved. Heinous.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your child. 🙁 Your X is evil.
This is just the most abominable kind of projection of them all.
Oh that is vile. If you would allow me to momentarily be a representative of the Universe, please accept our condolences on the loss and your partner having such a wretched response to it.
I am pretty sure the “She has had affairs too” was part of the unknown narrative. I think there was an “unspoken agreement” part too which I never actually participated in. On D day, he said something like “well you have had affairs too” and I told him “If you had sex with other women because you thought I was also messing around then you made a terrible mistake”. The one specific day I know he believed I was out sexing it up was actually a day I worked 16 hours in a Neonatal ICU caring for critically ill babies.
But that still leaves you 8 hours to sex it up!
I was lying in bed, 8 months pregnant with my small toddler lying between me and cheater when he said “I bet you’re cheating on me”.
Yeah. That’s the first thing on my mind; sneaking around while caring singlehandedly for a toddler, whilst being very pregnant and suffering from all sorts of stress related ailments, including asthma. (Because fucktard cheater left me to have his own affair with co worker)
What the actual fuck.
Have they no shame???
yeppers…. that is called Projection. He was doing it to you. I’m sorry.
Wow. Monster.
Meanwhile, I was raising a 1 year old, infant and was pregnant again. On my own, because he had left us of course.
When did I find the time for all of those affairs?
He felt no tug of loyalty…not even to his child? Call his child a bast**d, in so many words? Ugh, that is one low, low snake.
I’m sorry you ever felt his shadow cross you, not to mention the dating, marriage and parenting issues.
All the best in your cheater-free future, truly.
I’ve heard that before. The spouse is pregnant, and the cheater says it isn’t his. Why? That would be like cheating on the OW with his wife.
And she is soulless if she thought it was ok for him to say that.
+1 newlady15! A woman who accepts that explanation about another woman: psychopath. So cheater and OW are equally monstrous.
My heart breaks for this. I hope you all rebuild and have a beautiful family life without him xxxx
Wow. Still hard to believe there are such people like that out there
I have only a single correspondence between Cheater and Susan of Seattle, but he tells her that “I dont know how things will turn our for me & Uni, but when it does, I hope the Catholic Church will bless our union” or something to the effect. So no ABSOLUTE promise to leave wife but a hedged promise that he will include her in the faith life so deep he manages the obligatory cognitive dissonance for her. Ah, true love.
I am curious of the narrative he used though…really odd that he was able to have a number of affairs and no one ever called me. My curiosity is high but I will never know.
Apparently I’d walked out and left him and the kids. He was a single father and I was a Bitch! I’m now the lone parent and he doesn’t give a toss about his kids. (Not seen them since Easter!) He always had to get home because his mommy was babysitting! So no overnights with slut 1 or 2 but he did manage two trips to Berlin with each of them telling me he was away working!
We don’t have sex is bullshit. When I was married I always had a higher sex drive & got knocked back often over the years we were together – AND I DIDN’T CHEAT! If he had spent half his energy on being better in bed & bothering to put some effort into our relationship, we could have had mind blowing sex.
Every time I read these sayings I am reminded of the “kernel” of truth” I learned in counterinsurgency. Many couples have left the relationship. in part because we have a society that does not allow for being truthful. Love to some is a cooked dinner to others it is a hug, etc. Yet years go by and each thinks they are showing love to the other they are not. For many, it begins in courtship with lies about themselves because the ring and paper is so important.
I remember one forum where a woman stated that” she would be “his little porn star until marriage” because she hated sex. Yet knew it is what he wanted. Of course, this is making for a great relationship!
We make the mistake of committing to fast and not really examining the future. We will change. We expect out changes to be admired, accepted and are “surprised when she /he has another lover. For many, they were never there anyway. Everybody plays a part. we all make mistakes most of which could be solved with honest communication.
Yeah, like the honest communication of saying, “This isn’t working for me anymore” before you start fucking someone else.
What the hell are you talking about????
All that gibberish to say what exactly???
What did I just read? Seriously??
This reply makes me want to vomit. Is at once disingenuous and repulsively mawkish.
Mr. Sparkles withheld sex to:
– punish me for catching him cheating (again) with an online profile where he used a picture of himself from our wedding day
– make me feel worthless
– put the “problem” on me… I didn’t want sex from a man who was cheating on me, ergo I stopped having sex with him
– asking him to get a blood test
– NARCISSISTIC CONTROL… this I think was at the heart. For Mr. Sparkles, sex NEVER equates to love and intimacy. It’s like a Lion, he mounts, he ejaculates, he gets off. By his personal ads and his “I enjoy lots of foreplay” all I can say after 13 years was “You’ve got to be joking.”
I’m glad I had the courage to stop having sex with my cheater. Kept me disease free… so there’s that.
Harder part is relearning that sex can actually be enjoyable and fun and loving… and not the abusive shit that I settled for throughout my marriage.
“By his personal ads and his ‘I enjoy lots of foreplay’ all I can say after 13 years was ‘You’ve got to be joking.’”
What you wrote here is an absolute evidence of why we should NEVER believe what a cheater says or believe what he writes.
His dating profile pix was one I took of him on our honeymoon, over looking Florence.
This is so infuriating. Your one simple sentence has me fuming on your behalf. What a dick. Truly – he is just a dick.
wow, Florence? Yeah, yeah…I’m speechless. He’s clueless and lacks empathy.
I used to wonder what was worse, actually being cruel b/c they saw themselves as victims, OR
so utterly lacking in self awareness that they just don’t know what you’d be upset about. In short, lacking empathy.
Now I know it makes no difference to ME.
But if I had to decide, I’d say the lack of empathy is worse. It has no predictability and means that they are lacking a kindness gene they can never get. No reasoning involved, just emotionally blind.
Mine was all too understanding when I stopped wanting sex for months, while I was recoiling from a D-Day. Then when asked why he didn’t take initiative (knowing this had been an issue for us for years), he had a ready-made excuse: “but I knew you didn’t want to!”
ME TOO. I am embarrassed to admit it was me always “begging” him for sex. He told me it was his catholic guilt that kept him from enjoying sex. He was horrible in bed, selfish and quick.
It took me a long time to realize it is part of the abuse. It was not about me, but his figuring out how to make me feel less than. After D-day he just kept telling me he never felt passion for me, he has never felt passion and he needs real passion. Plus I am to ugly to sleep with…. sick bastard.
the Best Me
So Your hubby was bothered by the “Catholic guilt” about sex? OMG! Sex is the one thing being Catholic for which I had NO guilt. The DOCTOR was/is not Catholic – (he’s an adamant atheist now, and it shows).
The priest who married us, told the us about how “both spouses should be ‘satisfied’ with the mutuality of lovemaking as it is NOT merely about procreation.”
I loved that priest! (To be fair, the DOCTOR was good in bed for the first 2/3 of our marriage. It was one thing that probably kept us together so long).
Your fuckwit should have done his research or admitted he’s neurotic about it. Oh wait, no he’s not. He was just lying.
Sorry
That’s the type of cheater/abuser who turns out to be gay.
There’s no telling with the disordered . . . mine turned out to be gay, but he had a high libido and managed to find work-arounds (gay porn, morning wood) for frequent sex with me, along with whomever and whatever else he was doing. Granted, it was mechanical, passionless sex that made me feel completely undesirable and, at times, downright repulsive, but it sounds like that’s one quality many cheaters share in common regardless of their sexual orientation.
He’s the ugly one. And selfish and disgusting. TheBestMe – love the name. Keep using it
KK did this too — after the first 8 years of being open to just about anything and everything, it was 10 years of my hands being pushed away, “don’t use your mouth there,” “I can’t do that position anymore,” “I have NO desire to do that,” and her favorite “I don’t need the bing and the bang … just the boom” (IOW: “just get on top and I’ll let you know when I’m done”)
Then suddenly at 43, it was: “You don’t meet all of my sexual needs” and “We don’t have any passion anymore”
I won’t lie, it was a real kick in the gut. Still is.
The Manchild Actor complained that I lowered his self esteem until the point he needed to fuck his cousin, because I never made him feel desired. That for years he wanted to cheat on me (and probably could not find another whore) because “I wasn’t interested in sex”.
After the smog-hopium left me, I realized I was very much interested in sex with him. I always did whatever he want me to, [TMI alert] vanilla BDSM, anal sex, dancing for him, all positions he wants me to be unless they hurt [TMI off]. I had sex with him in his office in college. Of course, this didn’t mean I was not wrong, and for some time I kept believing that our sad sexual life was my fault. Several years ago I had a season where I cried when he was inside me. In the dark, he could not see the tears running by my cheeks. I did not understand what was happening to me. I felt sadness and anger, and I remember reading one day about somebody who considered sex as her husband masturbating with her body. I felt so identified with it. But I did not know why.
Then I remembered all those times when I asked him what could I do to excite him. I wanted to learn how to make him crazy. I asked and asked and asked. You know what? I never got an answer. He would say ‘ummh’ or ‘I don’t know’ and never answer. One day I asked him to do it with me again, and he said he needed to wait a bit. We never did it again. Without even being aware, I understood that I did not matter, that Me being there wasn’t important at all. I think he partly expected me to guess, even if he knew he was my first one so there was no way I could know things. On the other hand, keeping alive the emotional connection with me, the only thing that would help me to fuck him like he wanted, was too hard to do. He probably read too much Cosmopolitan and believed that doing laundry was the way to make me hot, for he complained that he did so much and I never had enough. However, he never did the thing that I truly needed: share himself with me.
At the end, he told me that the histerical bonding sex we had was the best in his life. How can I love somebody so cruel.
Limited never initiated sex.
Told OW there was no passion
We were like brother and sister.
He hadn’t been happy for two years.
I was a bitch.
He had to support me for years.
She won’t give me money
She’s a hoarder.
I have to do all the cleaning.
OW really believed she was special. I’m the one who came out ahead. Thankfully. I’m free.
I don’t know what ex said to his Schmoopie, but after DDay he was saying all kinds of things to me that implied we had no sex life at all. He made some comment to one of the kids about how important a healthy sex life was in an adult relationship while looking directly at me. When I suggested he take a break and be celibate for a bit to clear his head after he moved out he said “That’s why I strayed in the first place”. That on top of telling the MC I had no libido and didn’t enjoy sex. All of this hurt like hell, because I was still making love to someone on a regular basis (once a week may not be lots, but it isn’t nothing either, and it would have been more if he had bothered to give me his attention). If that wasn’t him I was making love to then maybe it was his clone. If so, then why couldn’t he have at least left me the clone when he left?
Recovery, I too don’t know what he said to his schmoopie, but my sons and acquaintances got the usual spiel: ” we grew apart” (no memo about this as CL likes to point out), “I can’t stand to hear your mother’s voice”, “if it weren’t for your mother I would have had a better career”.
And one day I got a furious crazy yelling into my ear ear (it hurts my left eardrum even to remember this episode) “I’m a failure and it’s YOUR fault!”
I can only imagine what he said to schmoopie. But frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn. Not only do I not give a damn, but I am grateful to have been spared this huge pile of shit, it would have been the ultimate humiliation, although no where near AlohaFreedom’s.
Ah, blameshifting, that special skill all cheaters possess. After ten years of drunk-ass behavior, DUI’s, etc. I got “I drink because of YOU!” Yeah, mmhmmm.. I really had to hold that gun to your head, Asshole. And pour that cheap BOX of Franzia down your throat every night.
I got, “I drink because I have a marriage problem.” I then asked why he was still drinking since he had been gone for two months. Blah, blah, blah. They flip things around to justify their behavior and shift the blame. That is their character coming through.
Same here. I was lucky to even get pregnant. Silly, naive little me didn’t realize that he was spoiling his appetite with whores and porn, so of course he was low on baby making juice.
Knee jerk reaction after I left was to prove to myself that I was still desirable, and I’m sad to say that I spent a few months making VERY poor decisions. Grateful that I didn’t pick up any STDs before I finally came to my senses and realized that my worth didn’t depend on my fuckability.
Chumps who have just started down this path — I hope you can learn from my mistakes and PROTECT yourself rather than trying to prove yourself.
I didn’t act on the feelings but I felt the same way. There was so much mindfuckery in the bedroom with SHitler that I’ve really wondered if I’m in any way desirable. If there was someone else in my life now, would they find me as repulsive as X found me? But then say that they found me desirable and it was all in my head and these neverending crazy making mindfucks of blowing hot and then cold. AHHH! Some days I wonder if celibacy wouldn’t be the best option.
Random sex w/fun people can be very healing. But there has to be condoms involved!
Healing and fun! And sometimes even very bad… but that at least makes for great stories (names changed to protect the awkward…)
Ditto on the bad decisions. Not something I am proud of. I actually waited a year after I filed because I knew bad decisions would be easy to make, yet, here I am cringing at my behavior.
I also ditto the protect yourself vs. prove yourself.
It’s not you. It was just a cruelty from a manipulative woman. Trust that they suck – at everything apparently.
I hear this. Kim hopes. I felt the same way like “how is there enough of your efforts to share round?!?”
Pah! I compromised with a poor sexlife for years
Add me to this one.
I bought books on Sexless Marraige, we went to therapy because he refused to touch me and I kept this secret from friends and family for over 10 years.
Prior to that, sex was bare bones, as in only one of us was satisfied, and only in the middle of the night.
Then I found out he was faithful to the OW and that was why he didn’t touch me for 10 years.
It took a lot of work to realize that none of this had anything to do with me.
To those of you who are still feeling that gut-wrenching blow of not being enough, please work in knowing your worth. It is abuse and it is all on them!
Me too!
“Add me to this one. I bought books on Sexless Marriage, and I went to therapy because he refused to touch me and I kept this secret from friends and family for over 10 years. It took a lot of work to realize that none of this had anything to do with me. To those of you who are still feeling that gut-wrenching blow of not being enough, please work in knowing your worth. It is abuse and it is all on them!”
It truly was a miracle that I got pregnant with his heavy duty porn & hooker addictions and sex rations. There was never really anything left for me. I did keep his dirty little secret for a few years but then spilled the tea after I got therapy, found Chump Lady, left a cheater & gained a life. He died earlier this year so it doesn’t matter anymore. I have an amazing son and I have found a Mr. Nice Guy.
But I’m not going to lie, sometimes its still hard for me in the intimacy dept. after years of damage/neglect from cheater. I still feel self-conscious at times but Mr. Nice Guy is so patient and kind-he makes me feel wanted and beautiful even during the times when we aren’t having sex. Even if the relationship doesn’t ever turn into anything serious, I’m grateful to him for bringing me back to life!
I could never get through to my ex that emotional intimacy is required for a better sex life. Spending time together, supporting each other, talking to each other. Those things are what feeds it. What doesn’t feed it? Spending all your free time with coworkers, talking to them, doing things with them. Then coming home and parking yourself in front of a football game and barely speaking to your wife. Yep. That makes for an awful sex life.
Amen! Whenever CheaterEx complained about not getting enough hanky-panky, I would explain that I needed more emotional intimacy from him to spark that connection. It was something I recognized and genuinely wanted to work on. Of course, he’d get pissy and argue that he needed more sex to feel an emotional connection.
Similarly, when he would complain about me being too tired for sex, I’d suggest that *perhaps* if he could tear himself away from facebook after work, help with dinner, maybe give the kid a bath or do the dishes, feed the dog, check homework, start laundry… ANYTHING so that I wasn’t falling down tired when I finally got into bed, things might get better in the bedroom. (Or, perhaps if he came to bed with me AT ALL…).
I’m certain the OWife got to hear about how we “live like roommates,” and I really beat myself up for a long time (after DDay#1) about this possibility. But, honestly, any lack of intimacy was on him. He created situations where intimacy wasn’t possible and then blamed me for it.
This is a big red flag “created situations where intimacy wasn’t possible and then blamed me for it.” I can relate. X was crap in bed too, disengaged and selfish, towards the end of my marriage I immediately showered off because of the “ick factor.” I now think he was getting off with a whole line of extracurriculars, my body aware even when I wasn’t, but I was so starved for a connection that even bad sex seemed better than nothing. Now I know that selfish sex is just another big red flag. People in affairs don’t spend a lot of time showing affection to their Significant Others (kissing, holding hands, etc) and its absence, coupled with a lack of interest in spending time at home, was yet another red flag I missed. I made excuses, he was working hard, etc. He even took vacations by himself and still came home exhausted. ???? When your mate is consistently too lazy to please you, he may be cheating. This is another thing I am seriously mad about, that I wasted all my great loving, and years of it, with a crappy con.
That’s what I said to the Traitor in MC…”Getting yelled at is not good foreplay”.
Of course the MC didn’t pick up on that.
Did you scare the timid forest creature with your yelling?
“To those of you who are still feeling that gut-wrenching blow of not being enough, please work in knowing your worth. It is abuse and it is all on them!”
Thank you. Having a bad day and needed to hear this today
Wow. That’s.. that’s quite the definition of “faithful.”
So mine told the OW (who was 15 years older than I) that I was mentally unstable/crazy, and that the only reason that he stayed with me – even though we had been married 20 years – was so that our two children (one adult and one soon-to-be adult) would be safe. Not only did she believe this, but she thought that, through getting him, she would have an instant-family (she had no biological kids, So married husband number 3 only so that she could “get” his kids). She was very surprised when our children did not decide to move in with Wannabe StepWhore. To top it all off, when the OW found out that I had found out about the affair, she bought a pistol, took out a restraining order on me (I live in another state, 3 hours away from this excuse for a woman), and told everyone, STBX included, that she was scared that I would firebomb her house.
The truly ironic thing about all of this, is that I am actually of sound enough mind where I have to pass regular psychological evaluations in order to stay employed at my job. Passed with flying colours, every single time – including right after I found out about their affair.
Oh well! I guess that the OW needs to get her kibbles, too…Maybe thinking that I was a nutter (and STBX couldn’t figure out why I would find that he portrayed me as insane as offensive – possibly even more offensive than being cheated on) made her feel better about the fact that she chose to be a sad, saggy, old, diseased, child-stealing, adulterous whore.
Yeah, I am crazy too. Whore and ex did the Injunction Against Harassment and Restraining Order game on me as well. I contacted the Whore one time, and found myself almost begging for my now XH. I quickly turned it around and called her a Whore and said she didn’t need a problem like me. (We work in the same industry and I know her boss). As for XH, I did flip out on him in some texts when his brother’s wife texted me a photo of the happy “just friends” couple at my XILs two weeks after our divorce (D took 2 months). I also yelled expletives at him when he served me with divorce papers the day before my 43rd birthday. Guess my sins are worse than theirs (at least in the eyes of the courts). Pathetic.
Yours royally sucks. Me, too. My STBX filed a couple of days prior to my 40th— the disordered are so evil in their timing.
He said my mother was controlling me like a puppet.
Couldn’t be further from the truth.
We were living rent free in her home after she moved to a senior facility.
We were living there after X got us involved in a multi-million dollar lawsuit that drove us deeply into debt.
My mom was very respectful and never demanded or was nosy about anything.
Even today I could just punch X.
Now now, let’s not invalidate our poor Xes for telling their Schmoopies we were crazy. Woody was right! I WAS fucking bat-shit crazy! Nutty as a Pay-Day bar for staying with him spackling and pick-me-dancing and sacrificing my own self-worth and assets trying to make him happy all those years when, unbeknownst to me, the sadz and anorgasmia were due to him leading a secret life of accidentally getting his dick worn out at the office. Amazing how fast sanity sucked me into its whirling vortex after I left him!
Lmao! you are gold! thank you for making my day!
This!????And it’s good you left. Even when X walked out I knew it was a blessing! He has so much more in common with his whore.
At he deposition, whore said fuckwit had told her I had mental illness and would rage at him for no reason.
I don’t get her mindset and don’t try after all she was married to and her youngest daughter leaving for college was the catalyst for them leaving their spouses. I still have three at home.
I wonder if it ever crossed her mind that Stbx being at bars and sleeping with her instead of being at home helping me with our 5 children might be a reason for rage. Did she ever think it was odd that he left his children with this “mentally ill” woman who had no family nearby and never looked back.
The answer is no because all she can think about is the $$$.
Good point, FeelingIt. I was accused of “yelling” too much. Years of gaslighting, manipulation, and devaluing sometimes pisses you off (even when you are not recognizing it for what it is). Things like drinking and driving, being a no-show for dinner or kid events, and not answering his phone or calling back when I called are beyond frustrating…at least while you are trying to keep your marriage together.
Yes, and yes. Sooooo tired of the “she’s keeping the kids away from me” line. My STBX’s OW posts nastiness online about “vindictive ex-wives keeping kids away so they can hurt their ex”. She clearly means me. Drives me nuts that this is their narrative.
Yup! I would get upset over poor behavior on his part, but in his mind, the problem was me criticizing him–which, yes, sometimes involved yelling out of sheer frustration/exasperation– but never the poor behavior on this part!
I was also accused of “yelling”. Of course I did after I found out about one (of the many) hookups. Now I’m “crazy” and I “keep the kids away from him” even though he doesn’t give 2 shits about seeing them and has missed several planned visits. On top of it all, his mother runs around town telling everyone that he’s given me “everything” (lol) after he planned his exit and cut his salary in half so no spousal and very little child support. She does the damage control for him. I’ve stayed NC & don’t engage with him ever. It’s all through the lawyers now. He’s a sick bastard. Fuck them all. They’re all mentally ill. Good riddance.
Same here about hiding income and skipping out on parenting time. Yet he claims I am taking more than my share and keeping the kids from him. It is infuriating to know he is telling that shit to people and that people who don’t know me buy it. Or that his family is buying it. I don’t know how to deal with that or give any energy to it, so I just keep my distance from anyone who is supporting him.
ChumpedNoMore, Sadly telling everyone we are “crazy” is a standard cheater go to. My ex started telling his ho-workers and co-workers that I was crazy just after I caught him out with the whore who is now his girlfriend. And he did this all behind my back why we were in Christian counseling with my now ex-pastor. I am not crazy and never was my entire life. I had a regular, sane life like all other high functioning wives and moms have. I only lost my shit and looked “crazy” after he pushed me over the edge at home with his bs lies and strange behavior. And then his mommy got in on it. Then I lost it, but fully recovered after I was told by a psychiatrist that I had PTSD. I have a close male friend who was chumped and his ex-wife’s married lovers wife is crazy too. The adulterous ex-wife went so far to tell her own children that this woman was crazy and that’s why her lover had to have an affair with her. Believe it or not, but this woman is a very successful executive and is looked up to at the company she works at. To me, she’s pure shit.
Martha,
You are spot on when you state that the cheaters make us out to be the ones that are crazy. I recently was told by a close friend that my STBX told the OW and her parents that I was crazy and that only a crazy person would write the letters and of course none of it is true. The karma bus can’t come soon enough.
Maybe that is why they are posting pictures on social media to provoke me so the crazy woman they have protested me to be comes out. First, I’m not crazy and I will never give either of them the satisfaction of letting them no my feelings. Neither one of them are worth wasting anymore time on.
Wow, my ex tried to convince everyone that I was the crazy one. Even told her lawyer that if she disappeared, they should know it was probably me! I never even so much as raised my voice let alone anything violent in the 20 years we were together. She told her AP to watch out that I might try to harm him as well. She tried to involve the police in this craziness but that is when it fell apart. The police didn’t just take her word for it and I was able to show them how she was trying to manipulate them into getting me out of the house. After she realized her ploy wouldn’t work, it stopped.
When I discovered mine was a serial cheater from dating-engagement-and 20 years of marriage I asked why the F he stayed married and let me believe in a fake life. He answer was that he knew I’d “off myself” if he left. WTF– talk about making your self seem so utterly important!!! Many of his whores were strangers in hotels while work traveling but of the, also many, colleges and co-workers and employees I can only image they heard this as well. And it is probably why we never went to work functions even though he was a VP and expected to go.
I was labeled as abusive. I lost my shit the times I caught her but could never prove it (several times with different men). I was going insane but it was in response to not being able to trust my instincts. My behavior was reactionary but it added fuel to her sick rationalizations to continue her escapades. She too has a respected position where she works. It makes me sick but people know what she’s done. Those who’ll continue to feed her ego (which is the main problem) while knowing her character are fuckwits just like she is.
There is no point is keeping self rightous anger. It solves nothing. I realized that I had a part in this drama. So I stopped. I took responsibility for misunderstanding and poor communication. Then I realized that I had to change my ways.
I am working on myself. I learned to be upfront honest. It’s hard and a lot of people do not like the truth. Inthe end it is better. No more assumptions. It is risky and painful to be told how the other feels. Why they want something that is missing. Some people don’t get it and continue with their ways. I do not waste emotion “hating” or judging. And some do stay for thekids as in not having their retirement foiled by having to pay for college.
If you did not know some couples have become brother and sister not husband and wife yet look to the finances first. It does not mean they are “happy”.
Several posters noted that there was trouble in their marriage. Some noticed that the sex was not to their liking or the mate did not seem interested
It is not easy to hear “you climax too fast and leave me hanging”. “Always in the same position?” No passion(yes they mean their definition of passion and PDA and little things that make the other feel appreciated.. We all allow our baggage to be like zero day programs then wonder why. Sometimes it is not accepting the other’s quirks. In my experience,the best thing is to move on with grace. The faster I accept reality is the start of my changed life.
I don’t believe in “chemistry” as far a long-term relationship, because just like chemical combination time changes things. Change is the one constant. Looking back I see I did not listen like I should have. Some of the problem was me. Blameing and getting angry is dysfunctional. It does not bring happiness nor peace. If the other needed something from you to feel appreciated and cared for but did not communicate it whose fault is that?
Our romantic tradition indoctrunates us with myths and traditions from a bygone age. Planting land mines beneath our feet
And there is plenty of merit in self-righteous anger; because of it, ChumpLady is changing the narrative on infidelity to prevent blaming-the-victim. Anger is a great motivator of change.
Word, Tempest!!!!
Well, JonVonn, were you chumped? Cuz divorce due to infidelity is a whole ‘nuther ball of wax aside from just divorcing out of incompatibility.
Perhaps you didn’t notice that many of us had serial cheaters who were perfectly content to suck the life out of us emotionally, financially, even sexually while they were off amusing themselves with stranger’s genitals.
And perhaps you didn’t notice the strains of emotional abuse running through most of our marriages. Or is that justified because we folded towels wrong, and occasionally were too tired after doing all the parenting and household work to give the cheater a backrub? Were our flaws so substantial that cheaters diverting tens of thousands of dollars to hookers, escorts, or affair partners, were also justified?
Do you see ANYwhere on this page or hundreds of other posts where cheaters asked for marital counseling to work on marital issues prior to constructing their Craigslist or Ashley Madison profiles? Hmmm, no, I thought not.
Coming here to tell people in pain after the worst knife-in-the-back they can suffer that they may have been at fault for their spouses’ cheating is akin to telling a rape victim she shouldn’t have worn lipstick, or kicking a homeless person because they shouldn’t have lost their job during downsizing, or telling a domestic abuse victim that he should have let his wife have the TV remote and then she wouldn’t have hit him with a frying pan.
We don’t accept false equivalencies here; betrayal is the worst marital offense one can launch. NOTHING else equals it, nor justifies it.
I understand that these are all reasons why marriages sometimes suffer, but going out looking for strange where you put yourself in the position of possibly falling for somebody else while your spouse thinks you still love him/her is not the solution. That is selfish and cowardly and I think it is ok for us to be angry about that as long as we don’t let it interfere with gaining a life. For many of us the anger has, in fact, helped with that.
“If the other needed something from you to feel appreciated and cared for but did not communicate it whose fault is that?”
I’d say the fault belongs to the person who needed something but didn’t communicate it. Or didn’t try hard enough to communicate it. Can the other be blamed for not reading their mind?
Also, this sentence makes no sense to me:
“And some do stay for thekids as in not having their retirement foiled by having to pay for college.
You are not staying for the kids. You are staying for the cash.
Losing at least half your net worth sucks. The poor kids live with the dysfunction.
Jon Vonn
no offense but you raise blindingly obvious points that are mostly inapplicable here. Why? Because by definition if we are here, we were duped. Most of us have done a painful internal inventory and work, already. We are aghast at being played.
I “reconciled” for a decade after the DOCTOR crapped on our family the first time. I worked on myself and I forgave and let go of a shitload of selfish deceit on his end, to save the marriage and improve ME.
I really believed we were past all this.
And btw, the sex was great, and I communicated fine…
and I believed lies.
My husband was capable of tremendous cognitive dissonance (lying) and carried on an affair as we were being interviewed for a national tv interview on LONG HAPPY MARRIAGES…(literally).
Mine was a 35 year marriage.
Be careful with the self righteous tone about our anger. Let us have it as our call to action, and we can decide when to move on.
Jon Vann, It does not sound like you have ever been chumped. Of course honest communication is the key to a healthy marriage but the idea that “he/she didn’t meet my needs and DROVE me to cheat” is total BS !!
Instead of cheating, why didn’t the spouse whose “needs were not being fulfilled” find out why ?? How about having that honest conversation ?? If there was a medical issue, get it fixed otherwise go to couple’s therapy. Take a tantric sex course, whatever.
The truth though is that for most of us, we were married to disordered people who will never be happy. Yes, you should absolutely work on yourself after a divorce and learn from it. BUT that New Age “no negativity” is BS!!
If someone really harms you and shows no remorse at all, don’t you have the right to be angry ??
Our “romantic tradition” crosses multiple cultures, races and religions for thousands of years for a reason –it’s TRUE !!!
In your case (like mine), learn from any mistakes you made in the marriage and don’t repeat them in new relationships. But there was NO JUSTIFICATION for someone to willingly break their marriage vows —NONE !! It is a moral failing of them because as CL says —THEY SUCK !!
That is the thing. Everything we do is reactionary to what they have done or are doing! I keep thinking back on Tiger Woods’ now ex-wife chasing him with a golf club and then smashing the windows out of his car. I’m sure in every day life she’s probably a very nice, rational woman. But her serial cheating husband brought out the “crazy” in her; she reacted to his behavior. And like you said, our reactions adds fuel to the stories they are already telling about us. I seriously had no idea that I was “being played” by him and he was trying to get a reaction out of me. My lawyer at the time did say, “He’s trying to wear you down.” and he did! But he did in a very Spock-like demeanor. I couldn’t believe that the husband who one day was so loving towards me could just flip a switch (again) and turn into a cold, heartless, emotionless towards me and his kids (but sad sausage about himself), cruel, mean, evil, snake-eyed monster. All his harem and admirers never got to see the evil man I lived with on a daily basis. That special hell was my life and our kids got to see what a cold, heartless bastard that their dad could be. I hope they ALWAYS remember what how he acted all those months. The Disney Dad that he pretends to be now is just that. A big actor. The real dad is the dad he was all those years he put his job and whores before his family. I have said this a ton of times, but God has seen it all!
Yeah, it’s terrible and so hard not to react to the absolute BS. I remember in the beginning when I first found out about him and another woman, I freaked out, because any normal person would. But they take that as ammo and use it against you, like “see, she’s crazy, look what I have to deal with” (a story line they were already working on, BTW). It’s not normal or healthy, because they are not normal or healthy, and their behaviors certainly are not normal or healthy. At some point though, at least for me, I figured out what he was doing and I stopped taking him seriously or giving him the reaction he was looking for. That’s when he had to start ramping it up… (but I could never go back to that true reaction by then because I knew better.)
Yeah, it’s unfortunate the way we react gives them proof we are “crazy”. And yes, my X was pushing the “she’s crazy” story even before I knew what was going on. So I totally fell for it.
And for all the people who knew me really well and fell for his story about me — I hope someday they realize what type of hell they all put me through with all his lies.
I too see the switch from loving to heartless bitch whore who loves for me to suffer (she wrongly got custody of my beautiful children…thats a whole other story…apparently it would take alot more than cheating for a dad to get his kids…) because I dont have full custody. I miss them so so so much. Anyway, what I realize after a lot of therapy is that she has always been of that character. Its that I just didn’t think she would treat ME that way. Disney Land mom. Yep. Except she passes the kids to her mom when she wants ‘me time’ to go whore around with her friends.
It got so obvious who the affair partners were. Every time the Worm would tell me a woman was crazy, I knew that they had sex.
Ah, thank you for the Floozie cartoon, CL!
????
And I thought that the OW was the only one who used that label…made my day!
The best gift of meh is being able to laugh at the past.
I know! It looks a lot like a ‘TopGun’ MK grifter from Corona CA. One thing asshat told her that was True was that I had no interest in violent sex, sex with minors/multiples or getting ploughed in the ass. Standards so low that only she could meet.
Good riddance to diseased rubbish.
Same here, ANC. I wasn’t willing to slurp semen off the carpet. Sadz. 🙁
Ew Ew Ew!
________________
EWWWWW. OMG–there’s not enough brainbleach for that image.
What, no 5-second rule?
This one doesn’t follow the 5-second rule.
OhHellNo–you have a way with words! Stand-up-comic good at conveying “gross”in a pithy, hilarious phrase!
BOKE.. That is beyond a gross request
Nooooo…..the visual….
I’ll add another: “I’m not allowed to be the person I want to be around her/him.”
Or Kunty Kibbler’s variation: “I can’t be the person I was always meant to be.”
Translation: “My spouse knows me well enough that they’d catch on — and maybe even call me out! — on my bullshit if I act around him/her the way I act around you. You’re brand new, shiny and sparkly. You don’t know my past history of fuckedupedness. You’re a reset for me — I can be anybody I want, and you’ll not only believe it, but want to fuck me for it!! You have no idea how important that is for me!! I may cum just at the thought of it!!…”
UX – you’re not the boss of her ! 😉
UX, I got the “I can’t be myself with my wife” too. He told her she’s the only one he can be his true self with. He likes who he is when he’s with her. With me he always felt invalidated, bad about himself, and didn’t dare say what he really felt. Only with her can he be the honest, respectful, kind, faithful unicorn he REALLY is inside.
Blech!
My ex was visibly relieved to be in his ‘serious’ relationship w/someone who had also destroyed her previous marriage by cheating, before hitting on him, the married guy w/kids. So great to be with someone who ‘got’ him and wasn’t all judge-y about the cheating, lying, abandoning his kids… Not like me, and the previous long-term girlfriend, who had expectations of him.
He found someone at his own level! Too bad she ended up dumping him. For another man. Twice.
Apparently I was boring and unsexy according to a pros and cons list I found comparing me to the ow. He didn’t tell me he was unhappy with me for the four years of the affair.
Apparently he also told another woman he was doing work for about his feelings. Why was I the last to know? All the while he still treated me well although towards the end I did feel his detachment.
Georgie, he actually wrote a Pros and Cons list?! omfg
Chump Lady, I sense a Friday post in this!
Mine had a pro/con list too. I thought I was the only one. You wouldn’t believe the things on it. Devastating.
Same here, ANC. I wasn’t willing to slurp semen off the carpet. Sadz. 🙁
I found the text saying she was. What a fine lady. So happy she “won” that contest!
Even after 3 years divorced this on still makes me so very angry.
He told the first one that I was too damaged from my abusive childhood. He told her that we never had sex because I was just too damaged. The true reason that the sex was lacking is that he was too busy masturbating to porn while I was at work or cooking dinner or cleaning the house. He told her all the details of what I had shared with him in confidence, he was the first person that I had trusted with this. Pig!
It still makes me sick.
Thats fucked up, nothing is sacred to these fuckups.
Mine had a “list” also in 2012. Said things like bank account, keyboard, horseshoe pit… absolutely ludicrous things. (Mind you, nothing about our relationship, sex life or us.) I thought he was losing his mind! Turns out he was trying to justify his affair.
You’re now the 3rd person I know who saw such a list. Chump Lady is this rare or not?
A friend of mine suggested to me that I do a pro/con list of what I liked / didn’t like about Mme YogaPants as a possible tool for marriage counseling (which we never did).
I ended up having to weight it (yes I’m that kind of exciting) in order to make the Pro larger than the Con. And this was an honest list too back in the days of the full Pick Me Polka.
She was horrified when she saw it on the day she moved out but didn’t dispute any of the points other than one thing that I had as a positive (Pride) she felt was a negative. I pulled up the list just now to find that one thing. It’s amazing the amount of spackle I had to apply.
BT
I found miles of texts messages and emails to various and sundry women he met through his work. ‘My wife and I are separated’ was a common theme (he just forgot to tell me), ‘my wife and I have nothing in common’ (except for the three businesses we built together in three different continents that created the amazing career he has now), ‘my wife is bi-polar and crazy’ (I am bipolar but have been medication-managed for 15 years) ‘my ex wife lives with the children upstate while I stay in the city’ (because he was so very tired and overworked he needed an apartment to crash at when his days in the city were long). The list is endless. And every word a lie that he used to get sympathy, attention and/or sex.
Mine also said we had nothing in common. Nothing but 36 years of shared history and a family.
One thing I forgot – and he tosses this around like it’s the ultimate justification – ‘my wife emotionally abandoned me!’. Apparently being the sole parent to three special needs children while he travelled the globe with work meant that I had abandoned him. The fact that he was no longer the center of all my attention and effort equals abandonment. Go figure. One year after the divorce he still throws that one out! Poor baby!
I got the “you’ve emotionally checked out” one too. Ditto on the kids and traveling, though I think your situation with the kids is probably significantly more challenging. I just single-parented a highly anxious kid and another highly impulsive kid while he worked/traveled/played/masturbated in the bathroom. In equal measure!
I kept questioning myself – am I holding back? Is that why we have so many problems? But I was too afraid to be vulnerable because it.always.blew.up.in.my.face. Every time, whether it took an hour or a week.
So yes, there was truth in his claim, but I was distancing out of self-preservation, not because I was a cold-hearted bee-yotch. (Laughable to anyone who knows me, BTW).
Moving-Right-Along, I think you are dead-on in your assessment- not being the focus of all their attention = abandonment!
Masterbated in the bathroom….
I know we’ve touched on this before on CN, but it still blows my mind that X could spend two hours every night with phone and laptop in the John while I cleaned up dinner and got the kids through homework and ready for bed.
Didn’t matter if we had family or company over either – still did it.
But yeah – I was emotionally disconnected ????
I got that one. He got plenty of attention, would have got more if he hadn’t left everything to me. Housework, child raising, cooking and work. I was ran ragged, my parents would comment that I looked knackered all the time. Funny how since he has gone I’m managing kids and house fine and look pretty fresh.
Never found out what he told German slut, only saw the hundreds of photos and he sure as shit was not going to divulge much. Have enough info to know they both suck balls.
My guess, is he slapped talked me to his co workers, from what he let on. I was domineering and controlling. I hope he meets someone who really is domineering and controlling one day and I hope she whips his ass.
Oh and I think they bonded over how much their spouses didn’t get them and neglected to see their true awesomeness. Yeah whateva. He lives alone now and German ho is probably archiving new lover photos in her sad world and still dicking around her husband.
MovingRightAlong–their excuses are crazy-making. Please realize they borrow just a nugget of truth for each excuse to make it plausible, then put it through the Massively Unfair Computer Program of their diseased little brains to spew out “reasons” they have to cheat on us. They are the ones who emotionally abandon us, no matter how much work WE are pouring into the marriage, children, trying to create a happy household.
I can feel the frustration and helplessness in your posts, because I’ve been there. I was doing 90% of the parenting to two children with very restrictive diets (and can count on one hand the number of times X stayed home with sick children in our 19 years of marriage, despite my having a full-time job, too). Yet, I was accused of “not paying him enough attention” because I spent too much time on other people (those “other people” being our children and students in my job because I wrote too many comments on their papers, which took time away from him). I was accused of not being enthusiastic enough about sex with him after the second child was born, which was true, but his fault. He did something so emotionally abusive the day after second DD was born that I instantly fell out of love with him, and never again felt safe around him.
Cheaters will turn everything around to make it someone else’s fault (#1 predictor of a cheater? Blameshifting). They are masters at finding our weak spots (e.g., your bipolar diagnosis, even though treated) to point out that WE are flawed and deficient, and thus cheating on us was only logical. Don’t believe it. Pretty sure if you and I took 5 minutes to write down their flaws and our list of unmet needs, we could fill a page or two.
It takes a long time to absolutely, positively trust that they SUCK, and thus stop caring what bullshit they spewed to rope in women (or men) of such loose moral fiber that they would fuck a married person. It was not us; we could have been 99% perfect and the cheaters would have found that one Achilles Heel fault to use as a justification for their cheating.
Yes. I was “co-dependent” because I looked after the children properly which took away time from his Highness.
Tempest and moving right along and so many others. You guys are such amazing people. To have to deal with such asshats and stillbe loving and caring parents – I don’t know how you did it. Or continue to to do it. So many stories of spouses walking out in their kids for selfish needs And sex and attention and egos. Just makes me sick to my stomach. You guys keep moving forward. So proud
He put on adult facebook page. He knew the marriage was over because she said it was or I thought she said it was…he had asked in the middle of an argument can our marriage be saved and I had answered. “I don’t know”…apparently that means No….and I can cheat on you for the next 7 years but never actually leave. He also said we didn’t have sex for 3 months! It was a lie but I do remember thinking he had a bad back so that was why he wasn’t interested. (He was on Workers Compensation for it at the time). Then I found the craigslist posts saying he’s available anytime day or night!
Funny mine had a sore back a lot, when asked to help around the house or just get off the bed, never complained of it during sex, funny that
The OW in my story was thoughtful enough to send me a letter at work to say why I was not giving my X the attention he needed and that’s why he was with her. Yes I was raising two little kids with a full-time job (one of us needed to have a decent wage and insurance on the Family). So I didn’t have time to keep refilling the kibble dispenser. Come to find out she was a woman 15 years older and her kids had all left the house and she had a part-time job, yeah you have time and energy to make him your world Wow these OWs come in all shades of stupid, and age doesn’t discriminate.
Ex’s Schmoopie didn’t have a job holding her down either. She does have five kids, but she was perfectly happy to neglect them in her pursuit of him. That’s what makes her so superior to me after all. I wasn’t willing to neglect my kids.
Rescue Twat had no kids and no career and so lots of time to make The Coward central, especially when the wife appliance was working (he was a begrudging and cheap husband) or taking care of the home (HIS BACK HURTS!!) or the kids. So she’s got that going for her. Also she’s not intellectually threatening ego-wise, so, winner!
But, he told her that our marriage was over (true, because it takes two, not one), he slept on the couch (also true), we had nothing in common (his choice), not enough sex (see first paragraph), and he was generous (lie). He did all the yardwork and a lot of the housework (HAHAHAHA!) He loves his kids (he has feelings, and he once was great, but actions speak louder than feelings). But I really don’t care what sorts of lies he told himself and her. What used to kill me was that he told her things that were supposed to be private between a husband and wife. No matter. He doesn’t know me any more. NC deprives him of triangulation, and preserves my privacy.
God, we sure were all married to such fuckers.
That bitch! For crying out loud, these people are unbelievable
During the Pick Me Dance stage, My ex lied to a direct question posed by his AP: Are you having sex with your wife? He looked her right in the eye and said NO. How do I know this? He told me! lol. This has been a particularly helpful thing for me, to look at how he treats HER. Makes it easier for me to say “what an asshole” instead of blaming myself (which I’ve done plenty of, and still do sometimes).
It’s particularly dumbfounding to me, because his narrative is that he’s one of the Good Cheaters. Not a womanizer, not a lifelong cheater, but a good noble family man who was suffering due to being in a “friendship marriage” with “distance”, who met someone who made him realize what love is really supposed to feel like. Wait a minute dude, if you’re such a Great Guy, why do you lie to HER? And he said to me (for real) “well I had a good reason for doing that”. I called him out on this crap many times (how badly he has treated her), and I get the Blank Stare.
Oy! Trust that they suck, right? I’m feeling crappy today because I had to see him at an event for teenage daughter, so the whole “we’re not a family anymore” thing was in my face again. And the AP turned girlfriend does school projects with my elementary schooler. Oh and they’re all going on a vaca without me. Again. Man that shit hurts.
Gotta go back to what CL taught me: Trust that he sucks, she can’t replace me in my children’s lives, and focus on building a new mighty life for myself. It’s hard sometimes!!!
I have been feeling that way a lot lately too as ex has just recently started getting the kids together with Schmoopie and her brood. It is hard not to feel left out even if I have no desire to join that “clique”. That is when it is tempting to make those “poor choices” as described by others above. So far I have only fantasized about that. I just try to get out and make friends so I don’t have to feel so lonely. At least my entire sense of self worth doesn’t depend on getting somebody else’s husband to tear his family apart for me. At least I am not Schmoopie. She may have my ex and be trying to worm her way into my kids lives, but she still sucks and she is still stuck with herself and ex. Same for him.
I think this is one of the hardest parts–even if the EX is horrible or the EX-inlaws are horrible or Schmoopie is horrible or the kids complain about having to go. The fact is, you are left out. You invested years building a family and raising kids and coordinating family get-togethers (and probably shopping and cooking and cleaning to please inlaws and the EX), and now you are excluded. Even though you wouldn’t go if you were invited! The imagined future of family dinners and celebrations was stolen from us. It sucks.
You are doing all the right things in planning alternatives for yourself, but I agree with you–it still is lousy. And as the holidays approach, so many of us know there will be a few days where the inequity of the situation is inescapable.
According to exasshole and his friends correspondence, they are both codependent and needed to break out of that paradigm. I give em some points for originality, unless some chumps here saw similar dialogues…
Nothing like having an affair with another codependent to “break out of that paradigm.” It’s not even logical…
Oh yeah I got that paradigm crap, societal constraints and how I was ‘unevolved’
Yeah put down the crack pipe already
Let’s see:
We lived in separate bedrooms.
I was old and dried out and didn’t want want sex.
He stayed for the money.
I paid no attention to him.
I didn’t support his hobbies.
None of which was true. The truth was he was a bottomless pit of need. I worked like a dog supporting his lavish tastes while he floated from part time job to no job to part time job. I put him thru four schools because his “dream” kept changing: from massage therapist to firefighter to medic to nurse to motorcycle racer. He spent endless hours watching porn and I now know trolling women behind my back. When I finally talked to final OW I asked her how she believed all his ridiculous statements and all she could muster was “I don’t know”. I remember telling her if he would cheat on me he would cheat on her, she didn’t believe me until a year later when my prediction came true. Funny how offended she was that he would cheat on HER! OW believe what they want because it fits the narrative that they are special and they want what they think is our life.
The OW admitted to being selfish and that it was ‘just being about sex’to start with. She was aware that I was pregnant from the day they met but why would that matter to her, she was getting hers at mine and my children’s expense. He admitted that he like the attention that she gave him. I was a bit busy growing a child, working and taking care of the toddler we already had. I guess he then used the excuses that he told me to leave me to be with her.
They now conspire about how I’m making it difficult for him to see his kids. In reality I think he didn’t like me going as no contact as possible and he tries to get a rise out of me but I’m working hard on grey rock. Consequences suck and he doesn’t like that.
They are filthy pieces of crap, hope you have a rockin life and rub it in their face.
Being an OW with a guy whose wife is pregnant is lower than low usually can go. You keep that grey rock solid, girl!
One of the best things I learned in the “Reconciliation Industrial Complex” was that it wasn’t about the other guy. That helped a lot. They did try to tell me that it was my fault which didn’t help, but that’s another story.
I used to wonder about this a lot. I even a few times blurted out “What does he have that I don’t have”. As far as I know it was more cash, seasons tickets to the local Junior hockey team and best of all, discount priced yogurt (yes, he was the milk-man). When I did ask, Mme YogaPants was unable to answer and I would wave the question away as irrelevant.
I’m thinking hard right now and I think I’m pretty much at a place where it doesn’t matter. Yes, it’s a Tuesday. He knew she was married and probably knew that there was occasional “married for nearly 30 years sex”. How they could individually justify to themselves breaking up a family is still beyond me other than knowing and having known for many years how selfish Mme was and probably is. On his side he was a recent widower who was probably happy to find a sympathetic ear and other body parts.
To the best of my knowledge she’s not explained anything to our children even though they do know the basic facts that I’ve given them which is perhaps a corollary to this original post. How do you even explain to your children that you have abandoned the man who adored you for discount priced yogurt and good seats at the local hockey arena?
It’s been a bit over 2 years since all this started and about a year and a half since she moved out and I have had very little visibility into what went on or what the current state of “affairs” is (thankfully). Superficially she’s a lonely middle-aged lady living alone in her tiny apartment. I don’t know what if anything she’s told her guy, or the people around her. She’s stayed underground about her relationship with a facade of “everything is fine”. One of my biggest frustrations in all of this is her complete inability to be honest with our children and yes, with me. Knowing her for more than half of her life though, I’m not surprised.
Intellectually I’d like to know but that’s just pain-shopping. I try not to visit that store any more.
Hang in there, BowTie! Your kids are lucky to have you, the One Sane Parent in their lives.
Mine told other women he was ‘Sort of married’.
Apparently that convinced them.
Criteria for being an OW:
Dumb
Available
You forgot “breathing.”
“I’m not quite ready to leave him/her yet …” seems to be the default bullshit setting for a good many?
Mine played coy with the first one. He groomed the situation by saying how controlling I was (we lived on $250/week net *without* any public assistance)… I wouldn’t even let him buy lunch at McD’s. I made a lot of soup and turkey meals (17cents/lb, on sale) and I knew he hated soup and turkey. I was a bummer to be around and dragged him down. On his days off, I’d be gone for hours (errands; he drove my car to work 5-6 days/week), “probably cheating” with my ex. (Uh, NO.) I’d even sometimes leave our 3 young children with him… how selfish to not want to dart around 5-6 stores, getting the cheapest good quality the sales offered, with 1mo, 12mo, and 27mo. olds! I was so awful I wouldn’t even let him have a FRIEND. (Her.) Effin’ A, man – he never had friends.That was my fault retroactively, I guess. That’s why he didn’t/couldn’t tell me about his new friend and why she couldn’t be known about… I hate friends. ::eyesrollingoutofmyhead:: Also, we never had an sexual activity, apparently. That resulted in very aggressive blow jobs for him. Poor baby.
The second one was the very trite, “She’s not interested in me. She doesn’t love me. I crave affection.” Well, I’ll “admit” to boredom and lack of intimacy… but that probably had something to do with his refusal to do anything at all with me or his children. He’d change his retail work schedule *in order to* miss their events. His days off were spent playing video games, shooting the shit with gamers all over the world, and drinking a case of beer. Even when I got him a really well-paying job with more time off, he saw it as an opportunity for more gaming and we’d go off on adventures of our own. They gave each other affection in an activity I’ll call “carpooling.” There are just.so.many empty parking lots on the way to/from work!
Not that my “controlling ways” or “lack of interest in sex” or “indifference” ever resulted in a lull in sex. One year, I actually recorded every orgasm on my cell phone calendar as an event. Mine or his or straight up sex. 200 times that year, we had intercourse. There were actually periods of WEEKS without sex… pretty sure that was when he was fucking around and why he’d complain so often that I was a nympho. I’d think that most husbands, after a decade together, would be happy with this. And yes, it was a lot of sex… but I had ZERO intimacy or affection (he kissed me with tongue maybe 4 times in 10 years) so I made up for it however I could. When the first OW told me that if I’d put out EVER, maybe he’d be more interested in me, and I was lucky she was only his “friend” and they didn’t have sex… that he was such a great guy because he’d not been able to “bring himself to do THAT” to his wife, I laughed in her face. “He CAN’T. We have sex almost every day!”
What killed me with both OW is that he was intimate with them. He’d tell me he just wasn’t “that kind of guy” who cuddled and kissed and stroked hair… but that is the vast majority of what he did with them. It’s what I wanted most – and told him so often – and he gave it away to women who’d done nothing for him… given up nothing for him… built up nothing for him.
Boy that sounds familiar. I didn’t get many kisses or general affection either so I gave them often but he still blamed me for the lack of passion in our sex life. Sometimes I think that is why he was interested 5 minutes before my alarm went off, so that if I responded it would have to be quick and no time to cuddle afterwards which he knew was important to me. If I didn’t respond then it proved I had no interest in sex. Assholes the lot of them.
Heart breaking … you let him know that you craved the intimacy of cuddles, kissing, and stroking, and he used that information to more efficiently snow a new woman. Please know that if he ever did those things with others, he never meant them in a heartfelt way. It was just a means to an end. He’s a real shit. Hope you are doing better with each passing day. Hugs.
Asshat told 21 year old stripper I was the victim of childhood sexual abuse, had issues with sex, and he never got it. I was vanilla in bed, He stayed for the kids, the marriage was dead a long time ago, blah, blah, blah. That was in his “goodbye letter” I intercepted.
The truth, I was exposed to pornography as a child and hate it. When we were dating he belittled his roommate behind his back for porn consumption – of course paInted the picture we were in the same page about porn. I Had issues with him spending more time surfing for porn than helping with our 3 toddlers (way back when), signing up for hook-up sites, and sending inappropriate emails to barely 18 girls, all while touting his religious morals to the church and youth group he volunteered for.
I rarely denied him sex, and he would even demand sex when I was dealing with a flare up of Crohn’s disease.
Barbaric. My sister has Crohn’s disease.
I mean between the debilitating diarrhea and the excruciating cramps, or the bone pain or the inexorable nausea- what part of you did not feel like being a sex machine?
He should be pistol whipped.
“A person who lies to themselves and believes their own lies becomes unable to distinguish the truth within themselves or anyone else, and so loses all respect for themselves and others. And having no respect, they cannot love, and in order to occupy and distract themselves without love, they yield to their impulses, indulge in the lowest form of pleasure, and behave in the end like an animal in satisfying their vices. And it all comes from lying – to others and themselves.”
– Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov
I do not know what he told the whore du jour, but I do know he told his co-workers and anyone else who would listen that I was “crazy.” In the Divorce Letter that he read to me. He said how our marriage didn’t work anymore and hadn’t for a long time — that was news to me! Absolutely zero signs that we had a broken marriage, so I’m guessing that’s something else he was telling everyone else including the whore. Months later he told me to my face, “You never took good care of me.” and as all Pick Me Dancing for years Chumps know — we worked HARD for our spouses every single day in order to keep them picking us and our kids. So the fact that this statement from him came out of left field and it was 100% against everything he said to me for our entire marriage (I can’t tell you how many times he said to me ‘you take such great care of us’ or ‘mom takes such great care of us’) — I know he was saying this to everyone else too and probably the whore. There’s so much other stuff he said to me after D-day that didn’t make sense and fxcked with my mind, so I’m sure all of that was being said to them too.
And loling , Chump Lady about “Do you want to touch my sausage.” Thanks for the laugh!
Perfect, Martha. Thank you.
And you certainly do not sound crazy to me. On the contrary, you sound very lucid.
My variation of “You never took good care of me.” versus how “we worked HARD for our spouses” is “you make me feel bad”. I used to puzzle over this complaint and what I was doing wrong. Now I know that it is indeed exhausting to lead a double life, so no wonder he felt bad.
Martha, AWESOME quote from Dostoyevsky! Thank you so much!
I read that book years ago. May need to read it again. Incredible insight.
Martha, that quote is perfect and spot-on!
Thanks for that beautiful quote Martha!
My STBX runs the narrative that I was (and am) a control freak. Never mind that I apparently had no control over his multiple affairs with multiple women, his constant drinking (and driving), and him not coming home when he said he would.
He also claims that he never got to make any decisions and felt left out of the family. Never mind that he was never around and he left about 95% of the parenting, house maintenance, and bill paying to me. I never was given the option of sharing the decision making.
Yet, the two of them continue to spread that I am a control freak. I have had at least half a dozen texts from him over the last 9 months where he calls me that.
Yep, control freak here as well! After I filed and asshat was running around with new smoopsie, I was tracking what he spent so I could get it back as dissipation. In his mind he made it about “the woman who just couldn’t let go of his greatness” and was stalking him. Bahahaha, sorry buddy, I no longer care what you do with your d*ck, but I do care what you are spending marital money on!
They are so freaking delusional!
I’m a Control Freak, too, GetMeFree. You know, because I like to control: having help raising his children, not worrying that his dick has accidentally fallen into an STDinfested vagina, getting bills paid on time. How terribly controlling to expect that the person who vowed before God to do life with you actually shows some adult fucking responsibility. How dare we.
Yes, we chumps really need to stop being such horrible control freaks! Enough trying to make them pick me! Enough trying to force them to cleave only unto their lawfully wedded spouse! Enough marriage policing and issuing ultimatums to be faithful or else!
Whey they accuse us of being controlling, they’re really projecting. They are controlling us through manipulation.
Getmefree…sounds like we were married to the same sad sausage. Mine also said he has no power in our relationship and I don’t “see” him for who he truly is. Barf.
I used a VAR to confirm my ex-wife’s affair. She was the OW with a married guy. I don’t know what all she told him about me because I was late to the game, but I know that she had several conversations with her friends about how lame his wife was, how she didn’t understand why he was married to her, how she had a much better of a personality than his wife, how life would be so much easier if he and her were together……made me absolutely sick of course. It was obvious though that she was trying to justify interfering with their marriage by deeming his wife somehow “unworthy” of this idiot. I’m sure that’s how many AP’s think on some level.
One (of many) of the problems that she overlooked with this plan was the fact that he doesn’t like kids and doesn’t want kids. Well, we have kids. Nevertheless, my ex thought he’d leave his wife (and a marriage with no kids) to be with her (and my kids). And why not, because if there’s something a guy that’s cheating on his wife and that doesn’t like kids wants to do, it’s to jump into a permanent situation where he has to immediately deal with kids that aren’t even his.
You know how that plan turned out……I divorced her and he ran back to his wife.
In one of the e-mails, he said to her “I can’t wait to walk my hot young wife around our kids soccer games”…he was directing that to his married employee, who is ten years younger than me, that he left me for and just married two weeks ago. I was pregnant with OUR baby when he wrote this to her…I lost the pregnancy…guess now he gets his wish….
So sorry Integrity, he’s another of these monsters. So sorry for your loss.
IntegrityIntact – That is so sad. Horrible. I’m sorry.
What an asshole. So sorry you lost the baby. Your ex may have gotten what he thought he wanted but it will soon turn into a case of “be careful what you wish for because you might get it”.
I’m sorry, Intergrity, about losing your baby. 🙁 I do hope you see you lost a total evil jerk?! My X had some type of affair when I was pregnant (never could prove it, but I just *knew* something was going on) and there is something so horribly disordered about a man who cheats when his wife is pregnant. I’m so sorry all this happened to you, but you are free of this horrible man. She didn’t “win” even though it’s a mind fxck knowing he’s with someone younger than you. She “won” the booby prize.
So very sorry to you, Martha…and for those like Pregnant Chump and others who have been through the same and worse…I have so much admiration for those here who have to “co-parent” with their exes, and who are trying to raise, or have raised, honorable kids who feel worthy of themselves despite the shit their asshole parent has inflicted on all of them…
Thank you all for your kindness…and so sorry to everyone here for the lies that were told about them. I feel awful that I do not offer more guidance to others here, but I still feel so confused and hurt myself…I feel like I don’t have any words of wisdom to offer when I fight to move forward, and then still fee like I’m going to throw up, even almost three years out…I have so much to be grateful for and am SO lucky and have so much good in my life…I just still wake up and can’t believe it…I just can’t believe this all actually happened….
Integrity, I’m three years out too and I still have that feeling “I can’t believe this all happened.” I’m sure eventually that feeling will go away. You don’t not need to feel awful for not handing out guidance. It’s 100% okay to read, share your story and not offer guidance or advise. I truly believe we find healing in other peoples wounds and still after reading Chump Lady for almost two years now, I still have “a-ha” moments and a little more healing takes place. So just in sharing yourself here you are helping others. (((HUGS))) to you. We are all in this together to “gain a life”! 🙂
Wow. Yes, It happened. I am so sorry.
IntegrityIntact–words are insufficient. I am so sorry for what you suffered.
Heartless bastard. These cheaters aren’t human.
The narrative changed. If the guy she was talking to knew me and knew she was married, it was all about how terrible I was etc….. if they knew she was married but did not know me, she was separated and filing for divorce because I sucked. If it was a random connection, she was single and available. One might say she has a disorder…. attention seeking drama queen. All in all, she was juggling 10-15 guys at once. One was her soulmate who wouldn’t take her on. The rest were toys to be played with. Some really sick shit!
10-15 guys?! How in the world?!!! My ex has of harem of women too that he keeps in contact to see if they will take the hook for an affair with him. I have no doubt in my mind that he has calendar on his computer that keeps track of all his “healthy female friends” birthdays so he can send out the predatory behavior “Happy Birthday” email each year. That’s how he found out his whore du jour was getting a divorce and he pounced on the vulnerable prey within days of her divorce being final. I saw the emails between them and she was all, “I’m so lucky to have such a good friend like you.” Yeah, it’s always night having a sociopath for a friend. He wasn’t thinking “friendship.” He was looking to get in between her legs and he succeeded. I can’t wait until she finds out that she’s not the only woman he wished Happy Birthday to each year via a oh so safe and friendly email.
Not *night having a sociopath, but *nice having a sociopath for a friend.
It is unbelievable in its own way! And I am not exaggerating the numbers! I can only nail down two she was actually physical with! But just to juggle that is beyond my abilities! In one weekend, she nailed her boytoy, tried to get with soulmate, was in appropriately texting couple other 20 year olds, and met a guy at a bar!
That’s crazy!! I had a hard enough time taking care of a husband, kids, job, house and everything else that goes along with being a wife and mom. Like Nauseous Chump said, “Where do they find the energy?!!!!!”
Funny part is the “energy”! Come to find out, she was shutting bars down. Working. Telling everyone how bad I was cause she had to work that weekend. Once DDay 2 hit and she wanted to reconcile, she was always tired in bed by 9! I must be boring?!?