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UBT: You’ll regret it

Dear Chump Lady,

I was chumped, D-day May 5, 2016. While I was at home raising our two babies (aged 2 and 1), my husband was constantly absent watching my stepdaughter play volleyball. He couldn’t miss a single match, wouldn’t let me go while he stayed home with the babies, wouldn’t compromise on anything. Turns out he was having an affair with a married mom of one of the other girls on the team.

I danced the pick me. I cried and cried and cried. I begged him to be honest with me, go to counseling, stop talking to her, delete her from his social media, etc. He did none of those things, just went further underground. And he screamed and raged at me when I asked questions or begged him to help me restore a sense of security. He threw things, kicked holes in the walls, raged, raged, raged when I brought up my pain.

I got counseling. I kept trying to hold my shit together for my kids. I almost died inside. That sounds dramatic, but it’s in no way an exaggeration.

At around the one year mark, I’d seen enough evidence of their continued conversations so I moved out and filed for divorce. Since then, I read “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft and it turns out the affair (and his rage when I had the nerve to be mad about it) is just the tip of the emotional abuse iceberg.

Anyway, I have finally had enough and I’m moving the divorce along. Today he sent me texts reading:

Just stop it already. (To which I replied, “Stop what?”)

All of this bullshit. Stop overthinking everything. Quit being such a pain in the ass and come home. (No reply.)

This is all so stupid and unnecessary and a waste of a good family. But go ahead and keep pushing all of this. You’re going to deeply regret it one day.

I’m not really asking for any advice. I’m already taking your advice, and your website literally saved my life. I would really like to see your response to his texts, though.



Dear SMS,

Boy, he’s choosing all the options on the big combo plate of the disordered, huh? “I’d like cheating, raging, and abuse with a giant side order of projection, please. Hold the remorse!”

Obvious translation of his texts is HE needs to stop HIS bullshit and quit being an ass. HE’s destroying his family and perhaps HE’ll regret the kibble loss someday.

But the mindset of the eternally Splendid and forever entitled can never countenance fault, and so SMS (envelop please!) Bad Guy Status goes to… you.

What an honor to be his chump. (Not.) I’d forward those texts to your lawyer ASAP and stay no contact. Never take the bait! I’ll repeat the old adage about narcissists — any communication is “Come closer… so I can slap you.” He doesn’t want close. He doesn’t want insight. He’s not there to help you. He’s there to slap you. THAT’S WHAT THEY DO. So put down the skein of fuckupedness and quit texting with him.

Per your request, I’ll put his texts through the Universal Bullshit Translator. Maybe it will drive home what a hopeless fuckwit he is.

Just stop it already.

Just stop with your uppityness. I need a chump. This isosceles shit only works with three people. (Or 5, or 20, depending the geometric configuration.) Converting a married woman to be my full-time chump is too much work. Now I’ll have to expend energy to find new suckers! And why should I give precious kibbles away when you’re there to do my laundry and cook my meals and be Plan B (C, D…Z)?

I am very threatened by consequences. How dare you impose sanity on me!

All of this bullshit. Stop overthinking everything. Quit being such a pain in the ass and come home.

Yes, the problem isn’t my fucking around, the problem is your thinking. Quit sentience at once! Cease with your logic and reason! Go back to unknowing chumpdom.

You’re an annoying child. Stop your tantrum and come home for a spanking. I am the adult here.

(Okay, really, I am the spoiled child here, and you’re only adult, but I’d prefer to mindfuck you into thinking this is all your fault.)

This is all so stupid and unnecessary and a waste of a good family.

I waste families. Mine. Theirs. Doesn’t matter. I don’t care. I’m all about ME.

But go ahead and keep pushing all of this. You’re going to deeply regret it one day.

This is a threat. Remember when I kicked a hole in the wall? I know you’re a dim child, but let me connect the dots for you — next time it’s your head if you don’t obey me.

I will deeply regret letting you get away from me. If rage doesn’t work, I’ll flip through the other mindfuck channels to charm and self-pity.

Any harm that befalls you is all your fault. You made me do it, because you kept pushing all of this until I hurt you.


SMS, iron-clad boundaries here! Frankly, I’d talk to your lawyer about these texts and getting a protection from abuse order with supervised visitation of his children, and zero contact with you or he goes to jail. I don’t like the sound of “You’re going to deeply regret it.”

Expose this motherfucker to law enforcement and divorce consequences. The regrets are all his. You’ve nothing to regret leaving this loser.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • SMS, you are really lucky to have found Lundy Bancroft and Chump Lady as touchstones at a time when someone has and is trying to so fundamentally her around your perception of reality. After my final D-Day, when I started being honest with others, I was fortunate one of my best friends was the head of Domestic Violence for a major hospital system, and she gave me Bancroft’s book to read. And I said “But this is not an abusive relationship.” She said “Just read it and put a sticky note on each page you see as familiar.” It was mind blowing. For a long time I used that as my touchstone whenever he belittled me, and I started to believe it again (Chump Lady wasn’t around yet sadly.) I hope you will use, as you are now, Chump Lady and Chump Nation and Bancroft too when you need to refocus clarity on your situation. And I am so sorry you had to be in a relationship with a narcissistic abuser like so many of us here.

    • For me, it was a checklist of nearly 30 characteristics and signs of abuse. Only two on the list dealt with injuries . The remainder of the list covered emotional/psychological/ financial etc. It was a shock to me that, for having never being abused, I could check-off all but those two on the list! That was a huge lightbulb moment!

  • Ah, the raging of a man child facing consequences for his actions, brings back memories, not good ones so trust me when I say I second the protection order! go to court and request it. His past behavior combined with that threat should be all you need.

    But I will also take a moment to tell you that if you listen to Chump Lady and Chump Nation they will get you through this. No Contact, the path to the truth and the light will save you and bring you sanity when the divorce is finalized. This will be painful and a pain in the ass but I’m here to tell you that life on the other side is filled with amazing joy and peace.

    • I am here to tell you to take any implied threat seriously. Those texts triggered me and I thought I was almost a decade past it. Be cautious. If it feels uncomfortable to you report it because if you don’t, it gets worse. And it escalates because they become bolder and more sure you won’t report them and they have control of you and the situation. It never hurts to be cautious. It can hurt to be placating. Follow the advice provided by professionals who have seen it before and see warning signs. They are more to be trusted then your own feelings right now. I wish that I had listened instead of focusing on not rocking the boat. They change when they realise you are really not coming back.

      Be safe. Be smart. Be happy and free.

      • Yes listen to Chump Lady and take her advice because she is telling you the truth they are capable of harming you, setting up a deadly situation that they can make look like an accident, or even hurt your family and pets to get what they want! These are extemely manipulative, coniviving, pathological liars that will do anything to WIN! They don’t negotiate, they do not share, they do not play fair, and they do not like to LOSE! I will say it again they do not like to LOSE! Get out and go non contact to stop the insanity!

        • This ^ exactly … they will win at all costs. 18 mos. post-divorce, my narc put a naked Barbie doll in a cage on my doorstep. It was in an obscene pose with smeared lipstick, chopped hair and a pink noose strangling her. I totally regret that I never got a restraining order against him. We’re never safe from their revenge and we need all the help we can get until they finally (if ever- ) lose interest & move on to the next victim.

    • I couldn’t agree more; No Contact – and I mean ZERO – is positively magical. It gives you the chance to regain your sanity, to get your feet back under you, to love on your kids, to strategize with your attorney. Plus, it confuses the shit out of the liars, cheaters and abusers. My XH is still scratching his head, asking anyone who will listen, “Why won’t she have anything to do with me”?

      Why? The short answer is “Because you suck”.

      The long answer is “Because you suck a lot”.

  • He is a total c**t. She has done the right thing by divorcing. What an entitled shit he is. Both herself and kids did nothing to deserve such disrespect from this appalling man. I hope she stays away and def report his texts to lawyers/police as he is harrassing and threatening. Where do these fucked up narcs get off on thinking they can carry on like this but still expect good little wifey to play ball.? He is a fuckwit. She is awesome.

    • This is domestic abuse. You and your kids deserve better. NO CONTACT – stop replying to texts. Only go through your lawyer at the moment until you are legally safe.

      I don’t want you to end up dead.

      Honestly – if he’s violent in the home (and kicking in holes in the wall is violent) I don’t want him to start kicking your head in.

      Please take his threats seriously and be safe.

  • “You’re going to deeply regret it one day.” In situ, eh, asshole.
    With that history? Disturbing. Very disturbing.

    An informal Heads Up to your local LEO with a little low keyed in person visit is in order. You’ve changed the locks, have a security system/key pad, cameras already because you’re smart like that. What do you mean you don’t? Yes you can afford it. There’s dirt cheap decent ones on Amazon you can install yourself with ease if power tools like electric screw drivers “scare” you.

    Get thee to LEO. Get thee to Amazon. It takes a lot to get my attention and this makes me twitchy. Pay attention here, SMS. Please.

    • I agree; those texts are menacing. The cheater’s already-high anger and contempt are building, but he doesn’t yet think that SMS is serious about leaving. Once he realizes she means business, and is going to divorce his sorry ass, he will ramp up the rage and the crazy.

      Protect yourself, SMS. People (especially women) are at greatest risk of physical danger once a disordered spouse/partner realizes the gig is up and they are to be left alone. His texts are not a normal response.

      • Listen to Aunty Tempest. LEO, Amazon.

        I know a threat when I see one, most Chumps do. This man baby is not your problem. As to the projection part….ummmm… did YOU use your own kid as a pretext to fuck around? That is on him, and when faced with the facts and consequences of their shitty life choices, narcs only go three ways: rage, self-pity and charm. Your actions thus far have negated charm or self-pity ever working on you again.

        Let him rage at the cops, hon. Your door is CLOSED.

        Hang in there, Chump Nation has your back!


        • I’m so glad you picked up on the fact that he used his daughter as a pretext. I thought that was disgusting, too. He would often tell me how I’m not a good influence for her and how I just don’t understand that he has kids from a previous marriage. He triangulated me to death and made me feel SO guilty. None of that is true. I love my step kids and they love me.

          Then I found out about the affair, and everything he said about how his daughter “needed him there” went right out the window. Of course a daughter needs her father to participate in her life. But do you think she needed him to hook up with one of her friends’ moms? Do you think she needed to see him disrespect yet another wife (her mother brings the first)? Do you think she needed all the AWKWARD that followed? Do you think that if she ever catches wind of this, that it wouldn’t hurt her to know ANY of it revolved around her sports?!

          I simply can’t believe that a man who claims to love his kids so much would use their activities as a pretext for cheating. And I told him as much. He didn’t get it. He’s a narc.

          Good news is this: I built good relationships with my step kids through consistency and kindness. I have a good relationship with their mother. There’s nothing he can do to break my bond with them, especially now that I see the triangulation attempts.

          • Way to go. I spoke from similar experiences. The general answer to ‘What kind of father?’ Is ‘No kind.’ Clearly he is a person of few compunctions.

            Many shades of fuckuppedness…..get that RO done or whatever your lawyer advises. I am here because Tessie told me long ago to trust my gut.

            Keep us posted.


          • “I simply can’t believe that a man who claims to love his kids so much would use their activities as a pretext for cheating. And I told him as much. He didn’t get it.
            He’s a narc.”
            SMS, what kind of father does this and use his child as a pretext? Well, I had me one of those and a what kind of mother too. Mine cheated on me with his ex while I was looking after their son and while he was pretending to visit his other children from his first wife. Mine didn’t put holes in walls but he shot pellets past my head at my dogs’ kennels, almost choked one to death, broke a lamb’s back, broke his own big toe in a rage. All this happened when he professed to love me and want to grow old in my arms, while he pretended not to get on with the ex he was cheating with, years before DDay. At least the Traitor discarded me and didn’t try to rage me back into the relationship when he realised that I finally knew and understood the magnitude of what they had been doing.

            To do what they do using their kids, they have to be completely heartless, no moral centre, capable of using people just like puppets. They do not see others a real human beings. He misses his maid, his childminder, his cook, his cheque book, he doesn’t really want you back, he just wants his utilities. If that wasn’t bad enough, yours rages at you now that you are gone and talks down to you as if you were a silly child. So please follow the good advice you’ve just been given about protecting yourself and making sure he understands that he is being watched and he will not get away with any violence towards you, your kids, your pets, your property. Make sure he knows that if any “accident” were to happen, he would be the prime suspect. Make sure he knows that you have told people of your concerns. Call it your life insurance. You can do this, you’re sooo mighty, you’ve filed and given up the Hopium while you have 2 small kids with him. That takes huge courage.

              • I realize this is a very chumpy question- but can you define “hurt”?

          • My ex used to triangulate me with his sister, their family dog, his parents…he tried to do it with our oldest daughter but she is a mini me. He’s so out of touch with empathy and his own kids that she has always clung to me. He abandoned her (and our other 2) when she was 6 years old in another state. She’s 8 now and even though he has 50/50 custody, she thinks he’s a total creep. She hates going to his house and she’s got him figured out for what he is. Your step daughter will figure it out too. Don’t stay for the kids, his or yours. He’ll try to use that over and over. Enjoy divorcing his ass. It’s kind of funny and mind numbing to watch them screw themselves over in the process. Then find yourself a real man. A good man. One who would never do this to you or your children. Good luck and stay strong!

  • I used to get the “stop it” line, but usually followed by, ” move on, you know I love p***a!” It’s very tedious really. These cheaters want you to stay in the wings, be quiet while they screw the latest flavor AND listen to them tell you how your behavior is so immature! Really?? Keep that divorce train moving and let him feel the weight of consequences. Then watch him whine like a teenage girl!! Whose immature now asshole???

  • CL is right! Protection order is a must. He put holes in walls. Got pics of the damage? Even shots of the repair patches will show something was going on.
    What an entitled tool. And he models such beautiful behaviour to his kids. Raging, breaking things…is he competing with your children on how to properly throw a tantrum.
    Kudos for leaving this poor excuse for a husband (on his second go around!)

  • Yeeeesh, I’m getting chills from reading this. SMS, I’m goiter to defer to a Captain Awkward article from a while back – she said that punching a wall like that is always a threat – it’s a total power play to show that next time it could be your head. Please do what you have to do to protect yourself and the kids.

    • When a man throws things or punches walls, the underlying message is “Your face is next ,bitch !”

      Document, go no contact and stay far away from this abusive p.o.s.

      • Want to add that abusive women have the capacity to get nasty and physical as well. I recorded an upstairs neighbor raging at her boyfriend and throwing punches, just in case. He apologized profusely to me and others in the building for her abusive tantrum. My response was “Nobody deserves to be treated like that and you shouldn’t have to explain your girlfriend’s behavior. Get away from her-she’s got serious problems.”

        • Good for you. Showing him how he doesnt have to nor should he spackle. He thinks he deserves it. Poor chump.

    • I can vouch for this. After I moved in with Mr. wonderful ( after xh Sinister Minister ) – his true colours came out!!!

      Visciously ramping up the anger at family gatherings. Putting a big hole in the wall during a rage filled fit.

      3 months later it’s bruises on my shoulder where he pinned me to the passenger seat in his car and punched me hard in the head twice.

      If somebody can hit a wall or harm an animal you had better believe they won’t think twice about doing it to you.
      In fact – they will tell you that you had it coming and got what you deserved. Sorry – NOT SORRY!!!!!

      Get that divorce going and don’t look back!!!!

  • This scenario perfectly fits my fantasy of a service we could pay to receive all of our texts and voicemails at the only number the ex knows, forward through only relevant information to us, forward the rest to the designated lawyer(s), LEO, etc., And respond professionally for us. Wouldn’t that be lovely? Oh, to catch a windfall and start that business… 🙂

    • Gavin de Becker, who wrote “The Gift of Fear” [which is yet another great book for people in relationships with ‘difficult’ (let’s say) people], does exactly that with his clients. Great idea. The only language they understand is…none.

      • I just read that upon recommendation from this site. Glad I did.

  • SMS.
    I HAD the same husband. He did not anticipate my response. I went completely against the norm in his and my relationship and got angry and MIGHTY.
    These types will always go for whatever got them what they wanted before…and for us it was bullying. When we were “together” all he had to do was hint at losing his temper and I would twist in a pretzel to not let that happen. If yours is anything like mine, he will quickly go to the victim status and remain there (when he’s not trying to bully you, that is.)
    Once I realized that, for him, I was only “of use” in the 10 years we were together, I looked at our divorce as a business separation. I was so tough and pushed the divorce along so much by doing most of the work myself, that I don’t think he knew what had happened until after it was over.
    I am still dealing with issues due to him not thinking the settlement agreement is a legal document he needs to follow (after 6 months has not complied with his drug testing and purchase of life insurance) BUT he has gotten better with his parenting time (he mostly shows up and doesn’t cancel although he is often late).
    Everyone has the compacity for change. Most likely he is just busy fostering the new supply he got while we were still married.
    I will never “let him back in” enough to let him abuse me like he used to on a daily basis when we were married. You have read the Bancroft book, so I know you know, even when he starts to realize that the bullying doesn’t work on you any more, you can never give him an inch of rope for the possibility. Agressive and abusive types always have the potential to go back to homeostasis in my opinion.
    A year out and I am growing ever more hopeful and excited about my new life without having any human anchors to drag me down! If I can do this anyone can! I am rooting for you!!!

    • Yes. The Temper. Know it well. X’s method in all conflict was to bring out the Temper to shut me up. Then turn the conversation to my flaws and deficiencies. There’s nothing my “being fat” can’t take the blame for.

      • The temper. His worst rages were when he made a mistake, so in order to avoid rage, I NEVER EVER pointed out his mistakes. He, however, pointed out every mistake I ever made with microscopes.

        Arguments always went the same…I avoided arguing until he had done something AWFUL that just couldnt be ignored. He blameshifted, told me I was a bad cook (I am a bad cook) and then he said we should get divorced. I cried and begged him not to destroy our family.

        A thousand fucking times. And I never learned. Let this be a warning to everyone.

        • Arrrgggg! I hear “my story” told by you and it makes me so angry at these monsters!

        • yes, this! unicornomore – Our worst fights were from him throwing a tantrum at me because I expressed my needs that weren’t being met, my frustration, disappointment or (heaven forbid) anger at him. It was like he was trying to be more mad at me than I was at him as a defense. Over and over for 27 years. I quit expressing anything negative about him to him. Quit expressing how I felt and just agreed with everything and kept my mouth shut in order to avoid his raging tantrums. As much as I could. Sometimes I had to express myself and, like clockwork, he would explode. I sacrificed myself. Horrible.
          Then he had an affair. Then I knew I was just a cardboard cut-out to him. A prop. A wife-appliance. Not a person. I had to get away.
          We’re divorced now. I’m finding myself again and coming back to life and it is like a re-birth.

          • “It was like he was trying to be more mad at me than I was at him as a defense.” This is exactly what I experienced.

            After reading Bancroft, though, I learned this isn’t some subconscious defense mechanism. It’s a deliberate attempt to shift the focus off of their deficiencies and erode your will to ever bring them up. It works, it gets them what they want.

            My husband and I took a trip to Canada last June to spend some “quality time” together after my May 5 Dday. I was still reeling from Dday and cried that I didn’t feel emotionally safe. He lost it. He picked up our bags and threw them across the room, screamed at me about how I was making this so hard to enjoy, brought our problems to Canada, etc. I would’ve done anything to make that display stop. We were saving the marriage after all, and I was making it “so hard” for him.

            He got what he wanted–I shut up. I still didn’t feel emotionally safe, but I didn’t talk about it any more on that trip.

            • Precious SMS!

              Been there / done that! I heard similar during my many (unfortunately!!) attempts to reconcile….Yeppers….I am a classic Chump 😉

              I am so proud of you that you are making tracks to ‘get the h___ away’ from that crazy. You have precious children to shield, as well as your own heart to reclaim.

              I am also very pleased to see you reading through the advice that is being given to you today by the lovely citizens of ChumpNation.

              Please, do keep us posted…..

              Lots of love to you and your precious little ones as you…..

              …….ForgeOn to a your peaceful new life!

    • The failure to obtain life insurance is a huge deal that should be addressed by a motion for contempt immediately. A friend of mine was afraid to take her X back to court to enforce that provision of their agreement. Her X was killed unexpectedly in a boating accident and guess what? He had never obtained insurance.

      She was left to raise three young kids on her modest salary and social security. The kids suffered greatly, as did my friend. Once her husband was dead, she had absolutely no legal recourse against him.

      To make matters worse, his family asked for donations in lieu of flowers to help with her expenses, then promptly stole very penny of that money, too. Protect yourself and your children!

      • Thank you for the story. I am in a state that won’t consider enforcement until 6 months out from the divorce. I have another week;) I am on it.

  • SMS, that is abusive bullshit. They really hate it when you stick to your guns, enforce boundaries and elicit consequences.

    Get legal advice. I am in pre-divorce settlement hell with mine. I won’t budge on what I am asking for & yesterday I received a text out of the blue from him saying he wanted to meet & discuss the terms of the settlement! D-day was 11th January 2016 & settlement has been going since July 2016. I rang my lawyer & after checking sent a text to him stating I would be happy to discuss it in mediation as per my lawyers instructions to his lawyers.

    They try anything to manipulate the situation. Go no-contact as much as possible & let your lawyers handle it.

    • Wow Kimhopes that was also my Dday and I’m also in pre-divorce settlement hell!

      Mediation is required here in my state. One date was set then my (former) attorney’s office screwed that up and now we are starting all over again. And I have a new attorney.

      If mediation fails, we have a court date in October. And STBX has asked for a jury trial instead of a judge…

      And good for you not budging. If I ever get to mediation I am not budging either.

      And my POS countersued me for adultery and cruelty… Projection much? And of course I have not committed adultery or anything close

  • This guy sounds dangerous. Please get any and all protection mentioned above for yourself and your children.

    X did the same to me, out whoring while I was home with our child. The lowest, as far as I’m concerned. SCumBucket level.

    I was never afraid of x, but when he was under the influence of the whore, he acted different, demonic actually. Apparently, adultery brought him closer to his Holy Creator, and hers, Satan. I’m only half kidding there.

    • THIS SO MUCH> “I was never afraid of x, but when he was under the influence of the whore, he acted different, demonic actually. Apparently, adultery brought him closer to his Holy Creator, and hers, Satan. I’m only half kidding there.” His eyes changed color, his voice changed, EVERYTHING changed when he was under the influence of whoreslunt. He became a monster. The man I was married to and loved with all my heart for 25 years no longer existed. He’s mean, vengeful, vindictive, and out to cause me harm because I said NO to an polyamorish type thing with that whore and I guess whoever else they wanted to include. It’s not who I am, but apparently, now it’s who he is. What he doesn’t understand is that he is not the victim of the circumstances HE created.

      • BeowolfSabrina (love your name), it truly is amazing, isn’t it, the transformation. I never would have believed it if I hadn’t seen it with my own two eyes. I don’t mention it to the general population because nobody believes you but here there are lots of people who have seen it. It’s truly horrifying.

        • EXACTLY the same. I was never afraid of him. Not even at his worst but that evil evil evil CRUEL person he became broke my fucking heart. It’s been almost a year and I’m still SO broken hearted. I’ve been feeling more angry lately which I know is good but when he was SOOOOOOOO IN WUV with the whoremat he was like Satan. Once he realized it was all lies both from her and himself all that went away. The bravado and the blame all stopped once he realized he only had himself to blame. It doesn’t change anything. I’m still damaged and everything is ruined regardless.

          • I always told my husband that I would “not negotiate with his demons.” And that was because he really did seem like he was cavorting with demons during his infidelity. It was the weirdest thing. I am not sure if I am a spiritual believer or not, but I don’t believe in a lot of hokey new-age stuff. It was the only way at the time I could phrase it that made complete emotional sense to me. It was like he invited all of his long-time, hidden demons right into our home.

            • Durt (the Sociopath), actually had a name for his evil side, which he said he coined in rehab. Of course, after rehab and 10+ years sober, “Slick” was retired. Except he never retired. Yes, the physical body stopped consuming alcohol, but Slick never retired. No, he just got more Slick and used his sobriety as a way to pick up harem members, side sluts, and the final slut puppet. Slick got better at concealing his true nature, and also took over whatever decency Durt ever had (if he ever had any at all).
              Slick came out in spades when I (wife #3) divorced him. I have never seen such shark eyes or feared for my safety more than when the Durt mask slipped.
              Now his 20 years younger baby momma and his spawn have to deal with SLick, not me@

              • Yes, demonic…..Very much so. Experienced it first-hand myself.

                Have a true ‘heart-to-heart’ talk with anyone who is a genuine, loving and honest Chump & you will, indeed, hear a description that is eerily similar to all these comments. I have spoken with, or read the accounts of, others who describe it just as all of you have.

                And no wonder…..Go back to the scriptures and read the account at Genesis 6:1&2 / 2 Pet 2:4 / Jude 6 as well as other verses.

                The holy angels that became demons did so for the purpose of engaging in perverted sexual relations. Therefore, it stands to reason that they are closely aligned with humans who follow their same perverted course.

                Also, go read some of Divorce Ministers posts explaining the demonic aspect of sexual immorality. Also, read in the Bible & see how adultery is often listed along with spiritistic practices as things condemned by God.

                A person does not even have to be ‘a believer’ or a ‘religious’ person or what have you, to see clearly the evil that is involved with adultery.

                Love all ya all & I get strength and comfort from Tracy & this Nation !! of my new cheater-free life!

                Stay safe as we all ForgeOn!

      • People don’t believe it, it’s true. When the mask falls, you really see what is blatant human evil, and some people are too…scared? In denial? Think you are being dramatic? I’ve noticed that some people can’t accept that people really can be evil, and vilify you for threatening their world view. As we all know, it IS real. These folks are predators, and it changes you forever to know they exist. Even when you heal and integrate the experience, you’re still not the same as before. But it really seems to freak people out. Now I know what Kurtz at the end of “Heart of Darkness” meant when he said “the horror, the horror.”

      • Oh my goodness. This is the first time I’ve seen someone describe the change of eye color. His was as if there was a cloud inside them and grayish. A sivkbcolor of gray. He was so blinded! I was shocked when I looked at him after DDay.

  • The “just stop all this nonsense” really rings a bell with me. Back when I was a little teenaged Cleo, not even yet a chump, I was involved with a man who was abusive and controlling. It hadn’t slid over into physical abuse (yet; he would break things or punch holes into walls). I remember to this day the friend who advised me to just GET OUT, and the words he used: “He isn’t going to change. The only problem HE sees in the relationship is that you won’t stop complaining.”

    And also, Chump Lady is, as usual, right: if the guy were projecting any harder, he could open a multi-plex.

    How strong you have been to get through all that to stand where you are! Stay mighty. Wishing you peace and the happy life you and your children deserve.

    • Yes, so true. During my husband’s infidelity he didn’t have any issues with his actions. He only had issues with the “noise” I was making about it. Usually just sobbing was enough to set him off. Or if he found me crying on my own he would freak out.

      • OMG, Durt did that too! He would be infuriated when he would find me crying. Sick sick monsters.

  • Why are these people so threatened by consequences? The worst situations I have been in my life have been a result of me imposing consequences, holding people accountable for their actions/choices/behavior and them losing their goddamn minds. I don’t get it at all. My most recent relationship? He was a crap partner so I left him, After a year of trying and communicating how i felt, what I needed etc. nothing changed so I left. Man fell to pieces begged and pleaded for another chance. I mean how many more chances does one need? He did nothing with all of the others I don’t expect he’d do anything with another one. But man, when those consequences came down…woo-woo.

    I mean, if I was a crap partner and my love left me I’d be pissed at myself, not at them for leaving. My cheater ex was the same way – he cheated, I left and he was pissed. I’ve read it on here time and time again, I just don’t understand, consequences is the world we live in.

  • Wow. Great column! Does anyone know the Lundy Bancroft equivalent for understanding why women do that?

    • The disordered, male or female, all have a single motive for their behavior–Power. Manipulation and mindfuckery are just their tools toward that end.

    • NoMoreNarcs, one of the best men I have ever met (I’ll refer to him as G) is stuck in legal limbo with his stbx, a woman who regularly insulted him, pruposefully disrupted his sleep, slapped and punched him – even when he was holding their infant. She told her son to “Just stop being you,” when he was getting on her nerves. He finally had enough and called the police on her. They caught her in a lie she’d told them, she freaked out and got abusive with them. They arrested her. He had emergency full custody of their baby sons (ages 3 and 1 at the time). He lost his job because he couldn’t put in the hours his boss wanted. All of his savings went to keeping them housed. Meanwhile, that woman wheedled her way out of all of trouble she put herself in. The case was thrown out due to a technicality – I think gender politics had a lot to do with it! She moved in a new victim she met on They met almost a year ago and he moves in with her this month. Every time I see him I am dying to ask if she has hit him yet. She got her full-benefits government job back. She got her lawyer (her family has money) to go after the car G put all the maintenance, gas, and repair money into. His lawyer is from LegalAid because he doesn’t have any money thanks to his beast of an ex. She lost nothing and gained everything. Got back half custody of her poor children. I am going to call the Children’s Aid Society (Child Protection Services) on her. There is no way she is not beating her new victim in front of her kids like she beat her stbxh in front of her kids. It is all about power. Power, power, power: power over her ex, power over the narrative, power over her new victim, power over her children. She is keeping the legal limbo going. All to keep herself central. And in control. This is female Reptile. I married a male one. Male or female, it is all about power. She calls G twice a day to “check in”. She has threatened to turn the kids against G and showed him in a small example how it might be done. Power.

  • Cheaters just love when you give them one more chance! I spent eight months giving my Ex the opportunity to reconcile and each time he was worse and went deeper underground! It also provided him to do some snooping to see what I had on him. Luckily I was able to keep my cards close to the vest. Each “chance” I gave him only resulted in about six to nine days of him vowing to be my true blue husband, but then he would just up and leave because he couldn’t stay away from Schmoopie’s condo!
    It’s heartbreaking, but you must report this monster to the authorities to protect yourself and your precious children then get that divorce! This guy (like all these cheaters) has lost his mind and jumped the tracks! My Ex was just flabbergasted that I filed for divorce. He thought I would never divorce him. What exactly he thought I would do is a mystery, wait around? Oh HELL NO!

  • The one piece of his text that rang true with me is stop over thinking everything.

    When , if ever, will I be able to do that- just say: he is a narcissistic cheater that sucks and stop thinking about it.

    • I agree, Feelingit! If I ever get in a relationship again (which i doubt), if the man says that to me, I am gone, gone, gone. Durt said that to me a lot during the height of the SlutPuppet reign of terror, as well as other previous discards. Guess she will be a simple minded non-thinker for the rest of her life. Fool spawned an offspring with the monster. Clearly she wasn’t thinking when she got knocked up by a guy that was with his third wife (me), and is 20 years older than her. Boo-hoo, I can hear the crying already. She deserves it all, the simple-minded slut puppet.
      Funny enough, he told me at the end, when I was crying because I will never have a biological child (I am age appropriate for the Durt-bag) after wasting my remaining child bearing years in him, that he didn’t have any swimmers. So either a) she screwed another guy thinking he would settle down with her or b) he was wrong, and now he is saddled with a child he NEVER wanted. boo-hoo-hoo. I just feel sorry for the poor spawn, who will no doubt end up at least a sociopath thanks to his screwed up parents.

  • Do NOT tell him you are sending his texts to a lawyer. Let him keep incriminating himself – you don’t want him to change his strategy. He is not only documenting his threats by sending them in texts, but you also don’t want to force him to escalate to verbal threats or threats in-person. My gosh.

  • Take those texts to the police. File a PFA, restraining order against him. He killed walls in….that’s abuse and it is violence. Tell the police you fear for your children and your safety. The PFA….will run his life. He will not be allowed to contact you. If he does…call the police and he goes to jail. Trust me….my Ex did it to me. It got me evicted out of the house and a text message sent me to jail. He used it to his advantage in the divorce.
    Protect yourself and your kids.

  • Oh, how revealing when someone writes without nouns:
    * stop it already
    * this bullshit
    * This is all so stupid and unnecessary
    * keep pushing all of this
    * You’re going to deeply regret it

    We can easily see, when we unhook from reading his words as a coherent message, the bankruptcy and lack of actual meaning here. What is “it” and “this” and “this bullshit”? We know he means something like “moving out and ruining my cozy cheating situation by filing for divorce and expecting child support for the kids.” And that is code for “standing up for yourself” and “removing yourself from my abusive presence.”

    People use indefinite pronouns when they don’t know what they are talking about–or when they don’t want to admit what they are really saying because if they used specific words, the reader would be repelled by the content. Would be shocked and disgusted. What you have here, SMS, is a man who at the most subnconscious level of language can’t say out loud what he wants: for you to come home so he can continue to abuse you.

    I’m always in a cranky minority here when I say, “Why are you texting this person? Why would you give this cheating, lying jackass an instant pipeline into your consciousness?” With a man this unhinged and abusive, the best solution is scheduling software. And follow CL’s advice and push for supervised visitation. Then you can communicate with whomever he chooses to supervise in the event of an emergency with the kids. The faster you get distance between you and this guy, the better off you will be.

    • I’m in the cranky minority with you LAJ. In the words from a computer in the movie war games: “The only winning move is not to play!”

      • Anyone with a disordered ex or STBX would be far better off using that “third party.” Takes away control and centrality.

      • My shared custody software is worth every penny! My X is smart enough to know that everything on our shared custody software is receivable evidence in court.

        Hence, since I refuse to have any kind of communication with him on anything else than our shared custody software (with minor text exceptions for emergencies), his communication with me has shaped up, and no more mindfuck going on…

        The added bonus is I have everything in writing. When he wrotw that he couldn’t pick up our kid to visit his family because of a “work emergency” (note that summer emergencies in his line of work are less likely than winning the lottery), I copied that email and forwarded it to my xMIL copying my X telling her how sorry I was that a work emergency would prevent her from seeing her grandchild and offering to facilitate a skype call instead… I control the narrative and that goes a long way to clear up any mindfuck that his pathological lying might create.

        Keep forging on SMS, and yes as many have commented here today, please please please do take all his threats very seriously and protect yourself and your kids!!

        • I wish more people would use this way to avoid the mindfuckery and manipulation. Plus it’s great for court.

  • Protection order right now.
    Women are most often killed once they leave. It’s the most dangerous time.

    Call the cops; tell them about the rages and the threats. Now. Then get serious about protecting yourself and your babies. You have to be mighty.

  • “You’re going to deeply regret it one day.”

    Wow, I’d run fast if I saw a statement like this. This type of threat really made my skin crawl. I wonder what he’d be capable of… while I imagine my body chopped up found in a garbage bag and I’m on the 6 o’clock news. This guy sounds like a disturbed individual.

  • “Just stop it already.”

    Stop holding me accountable for my actions!

    “All of this bullshit.”

    Having to suffer consequences for my actions is bullshit!

    “Stop overthinking everything.”

    Seriously, this would be so much easier if you were an idiot.

    “Quit being such a pain in the ass and come home.”

    Can’t you just be a good little wife appliance for me? Why should the fact that I’m an abusive cheater who neglects you matter? I treat the toaster like shit as well – you don’t see it up and leaving! Why can’t you be more like a toaster?

    “This is all so stupid and unnecessary and a waste of a good family.”

    Again, I can’t understand why you feel my shitty behavior justifies you leaving, toaster. I had everything just the way I wanted it: you at home looking after the kids, and me doing whatever the hell I wanted! Where do you get off objecting to your place in my grand design, toaster? How dare you!

    [Funny how his ‘good family’ wasn’t worth keeping his dick in his pants over, and yet you’re expected to put up with adultery and abuse for it]

    “But go ahead and keep pushing all of this. You’re going to deeply regret it one day.”

    You’ll be sorry – where else will you find a guy to leave you stranded at home while he fucks around, lie to you, scream at you, and punch holes in things? We aren’t a dime a dozen, you know.

    Dear SMS: you aren’t wasting a good family, you are creating a good family (you and your kids) by getting this abusive lying cheater out of your lives (or at least, further away from your lives). Someone who cheats, lies, screams, and punches things isn’t contributing to a good family. Did he throw away a good family because the only person he truly loves is himself? Yes. However, behaving badly and refusing to expose yourself and your children to bad behavior are not equivalent actions.

    • I love your translation. It’s exactly what I think in my ah-ha moments (which are closer and closer between).

  • Quit being a pain in the ass and come home. Wow, how do you resist the romance (sarcasm). I agree with no contact and let him incriminate himself. He’s a bully who thinks he did nothing wrong and that you deserve to be punished. Definitely get a protection order. It sounds like it’s going to get worse.

  • Just stop it already. (To which I replied, “Stop what?”)
    Because you, having removed yourself from him, is somehow more trouble than whatever he claims “drove” him to cheat? You did stop. You removed yourself from the situation entirely. You’re WELCOME, Cheater.

    All of this bullshit. Stop overthinking everything. Quit being such a pain in the ass and come home. (No reply.)
    It is impossible for you to be anything, since you’re not there. Ohh! He means the void left in his sphere of activity… the OW probably got nervous and ditched him, claiming to be bored or saddened by her role in the demise of your marriage. ::GAG:: Double, gaping void for him… and exponential, once all the drama surrounding both is factored in. Hell, his daughter and her mother are probably pissed at him too… he shat in their beds. AND IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT. *He’s* (nothing else to do) overthinking, in the absence of anything else to engage him, and would like you back to have things to do again. Because mindfucking is still fucking, amIright? Ugh.

    This is all so stupid and unnecessary and a waste of a good family. But go ahead and keep pushing all of this. You’re going to deeply regret it one day.
    Delusions of grandeur. Paper-thin mask of decency.
    You, being MIGHTY, have absolutely *shattered* his.

    Well done, SMS!

    • The OW supposedly got back with her husband. He had lots of money and she’s a selfie/workout queen. That don’t pay the bills.

      When she heard I filed for divorce, my stepdaughter’s mom called me to make sure I was ok. She knows. I didn’t even have to say anything.

      • You should let the OW husband know what a piece of shit she is. Hopefully they have a no cheat prenup that he can use to his advantage.

      • These sociopaths often want to hook up with other married sociopaths. That way they have the power over their chumps, and the likelihood of being caught (because a single person on the other side will push for more) is greatly minimized. You foiled him SMS, by dumping him.
        Durt is targeting married ones now that he is with the slut puppet and they have a kid. I guess he learned a thing or two about consequences from hooking up with women who may tell the spouse, so he is working on lessening the risk by seeking out only other married sociopaths and avoiding the singletons. He also hasn’t married her, so he will feel fewer consequences should she wise up, especially since she came to the fuck fest with nothing (not even a car). Good luck, Slut Puppet! The victim here is the poor spawn of satan and the slut.
        I would be sure to highlight everything to the OW’s spouse.

  • SMS,

    My father was violent and abusive at times. Punching holes in walls, throwing things, that’s how it starts. Eventually, he’ll likely be hitting you and the kids, and then beating you and the kids. I built up such strong mental defense mechanisms that it wasn’t until I was in my late thirties and was in therapy that I could remember some of the violent things he did. My sister went the opposite route, she remembered everything. Recently she told me of a memory when he held her down on her bed and beat her until she wet the bed. I don’t have all the details, but she was five when my father died, so she must have been that age or younger when it happened. My poor mother bore the brunt of it, though, and this was in an age when one didn’t divorce, one didn’t have battered women’s shelters available, etc.

    SMS, you are absolutely doing the right thing, not only for yourself, but for your kids. Stick to your guns, go no contact as much as possible, and only see him or let him see the kids when other adults that you trust are around. Don’t get lulled into a false sense of comfort that he’s gotten better, he might just be acting better to get you to let your guard down so he can do something truly horrific. Down the line, after the divorce is final, consider moving far away from him, for your safety and the safety of your children.

    And recognize that this is not because of any flaw in you, it’s because he’s a horrible person. He probably has some good qualities, after all, he convinced you and at least one other woman to have kids with him, and another to have an affair with him. But balance that against the affair and the violence, and it should be clear the right thing to do is to leave.

    Hugs. Strength. Peace.

    • The story about your sister’s beating took my breath away, Aeronaut. That poor, scared little girl. Still shocking that humans can be that cruel to the people they are supposed to protect.

      • Same for me, Tempest, and I was there (probably hiding under my bed, that was my refuge). Just can’t remember it happening, like many other of my father’s violent episodes. Thanks for your kind words (as well as everything else you do here).

        For what it’s worth, my sister grew up to be a fine woman, married a great guy, has a wonderful son and stepson (from hubby’s first relationship), and a M.S. in psych. And when my ex (who loathed my sister, and vice versa) decided she had had enough of me, my sister was there for me. Heck, she wanted to throw a party to celebrate the divorce.

        I think both of us came out alright because my father died when we were young, and my mother did an awesome job with us. If he had lived, eventually I would have grown too big to hide under the bed, and then it would have gotten much worse.

        Hugs. Strength. Peace.

        • Aeronaut, i have been haunted by your story all day, thinking if your sister…I am glad to hear such a wonderful story of not just survivng, but thriving. I always enjoy your posts, always something to learn or ponder. Thank you for sharing your positive vibe, day in and day out.

        • Aeronaut, thank you for sharing your story. I feel for you and your sister. My mother told me stories of when she and her sister used to hide under a table when their father came home and beat and raped my grandmother (except it wasn’t rape in those days, he had a right to do this!), of how they used to get diarrhea from fear when they heard he was coming home from his “business trips”. Of course he was also a cheater and a fraudster.
          This not only affects the children but it goes down the generations in the choices and mistakes the children make which then affect the grandchildren. I am sure that is how my mother became an OW to a cold and distant narc. At least he would never try to take over her life, and never be around the children he fathered, which must have seemed a safe option after what she experienced. And on and on the cycle of abuse is perpetuated. At least it is a little bit easier now for the abused to leave these marriages and protect the kids. Thank goodness for refuges and for benefits for single parents who get away.

  • Follow Chump Lady’s advice, SMS.

    A couple of times I got, “God help you if ________ ‘..” but nothing more threatening than that. A lot of well-documented and reported blow-ups in public places with exh#2/The Evil One — he has no clue of all the paper trail he has left, which chronicles his anger and venom-spewing. Plus, ALL of these incidents in public places were always witnessed by his OWife/Mrs. Dumb-Ass, so there’s that.

    What I don’t get is they cheat,.lie, steal, but we’re the bad.guys????

    • I hear you Molly! Skankboy has said “I’m doing as good (sic) as can be expected.” Yep, MY fault I tossed his ass out and now he has to live with the consequences. I’m such a bad, bad person. (snicker)

  • This man is a piece of shit. You’re doing right in getting away from him.

    During our divorce, my then-STBX wife also said that “we’d both” regret my decision to get divorced.

    It’s been 3 years since my divorce was finalized…

    The only thing I regret is marrying her. Still waiting on that divorce regret. I’m not holding my breath.

  • It is as if we were married to the same man. What a shame.
    My kids are 4, 3 and 2. Stbxh is almost 30. I’m certain that our oldest child has more maturity than he does.
    Push forward, SMS!

  • OMG, protect yourself and your young children. Call your lawyer. That text put chills through my soul. So many women are murdered by their spouses when they try to leave. They call them “honor killings” in third world countries, but it’s murder of women and children by men who use violence to maintain their power.

  • Take this info to your lawyer and both of you alert the cops. The saying “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” is just as true with men. He cheated, you left and to his disordered mind that means you scorned him. I don’t want to scare you too much but need to let you know he could be dangerous.
    A woman in Greenville, SC just shot and killed her husband’s lover, her own two children(one by him) and herself. On the outside she was a separated wife, photographer, mom and appeared normal. On the inside she was seething. Now four people are dead. Never discount the disordered.

  • Haven’t read the other comments, but his text is all too familiar. Especially the “you are overthinking this” line. I got that a lot because Durt truly expected me to get over it, let him do whatever he wanted and whoever he wanted whenever he wanted, and be waiting for him at home with a smile on my face whenever he decided to bestow his favor on me, his chumpy, dumpy wife. The problem was I was overthinking the abuse he was heaping on me. The problem was I hadn’t made my needs completely disappear and I wasn’t being 100 percent subordinate to him. I needed to just stop thinking all together apparently, except if it served him.
    It was only when I ceased contact with him except through an intermediary, and refused to be alone with him without a mutual male friend in attendance, that I was able to break the hold and the hopium pipe.
    Strangely, it felt weird and a little muted not having the constant drama. It takes a little time and perspective to realize and come down from the high alert.status and enjoy the peace that you haven’t had for so long. Then you see you were terribly abused.

  • Mine told me I would regret it. These assholes really aren’t original. Rage, manipulation and threats because their jig is up.

    The only thing I regret is being scared of the POS, believing his threats and not leaving sooner.

    • Mine, too. He got mad when I asked for gradwhore’s first name, and when he wouldn’t tell me, I told him that was the last straw and handed him the divorce petition (I’d filed the week before). He told me I should apologize to him for asking her name or else youngest DD and I would never hear from him again, and “you’ll regret it!”

      Did I apologize? No. Do I regret divorcing him? No (in fact, I’m relieved and happy).

      • “He told me I should apologize to him for asking her name or else youngest DD and I would never hear from him again.”
        Wow, Tempest, that is truly outrageous. Glad you didn’t stand for it and had that petition ready.

  • I’m going to echo the advice to get your lawyer and the authorities involved. The threat that I got from cheater X was something similar, “When I feel depressed I feel like getting a gun and killing you in the kids and then killing myself.”

    Most everyone on this site knows my story. The condensed version is that approximately 5 months after the divorce was final, cheater ex kidnapped my youngest son, and murdered him. Afterwards cheater ex drove with a buddy of his to another state where they both committed suicide. It was almost two weeks before I knew what happened to my son. His body was found wrapped in a sleeping bag with boat anchors in the bottom in a shallow lake in yet another state.

    I did everything right. I contacted the authorities, I got a restraining order, I notified my lawyer. While the restraining order kept cheater X away from me, it did not protect my children. And during the divorce, the judge refused to grant supervised visitation. This gave cheater X unsupervised access to my children, and there was nothing I could do about it.

    Cheater ex had tried all kinds of different things to try to get back at me and because he was pretty stupid about everything none of them panned out. What I didn’t realize at the time, was that his rage was building. He had already put me on notice that he was thinking about homicide. They tell us who they are if we listen.

    Please take his threat seriously. He is telling you what he is thinking of. Pull up every big gun you can to protect yourself in your children. These evil jerks have bottomless black holes for souls and they will stop at nothing to keep any kind of power they can over you. And if that involves hurting their own children in their minds …….So be it. Please don’t underestimate how dangerous they can be. Please protect yourself in your children.

    • Oh Tessie, my heart just literally broke for you and your children. I am beyond horrified…. there are no words….?????????????????

    • I didn’t know your story Tessie. I cannot even imagine the level of pain you have. I started to type some words I thought would comfort, but like MotherChumper99 says, there are no words.

    • Thank you for sharing your story. I hadn’t heard it before. Your mightiness in surviving this and getting out of bed in the morning, much less coming back here to support others, is breathtaking. You are so right that they tell us who we are if we listen. So. right. Peace and love to you.

    • Ah Tessie, I’ve read your story many times and it never fails to wound and horrify me. This is why I think you are the mightiest of all of us. You not only survived our worst nightmare, you have the exquisite grace to continue to come here and help us all. Much, much love to you, always. .

    • Yessir,

      I’m horrified & so very sorry for what you have been thru!

      Please stay strong & know that you did everything you could’ve done to protect you & your children. You are
      much loved here with all of us who have had X narcissists destroy our lives in one way or another.

      Praying for you & yours …God bless you

    • Oh god Tessie, I am sick for you, I, god in heaven…i feel sick, I cannot begin to imagine how on earth you, oh, god. a thousand hugs and tears and damn it. I am so terribly sorry, there are no words. Please know you and your son will forever be in my prayers.

    • I didn’t know your story, Tessie, and it puts my own situation into a whole different perspective.

      I am so sorry that you lost a son at all, much less than at the hands of a monster.

      Your strength is inspiring. I hope you have better days ahead.

    • SMS — Tessie is one of the kind souls who helped save me and my kids. Her wisdom is worth its weight in gold (though, I actually think it’s worth more than gold).

      Tessie — my girls (all safe and doing well) and I send our gratitude and love.

      • I am so happy to hear that you and your girls are safe! A win for the good folks!

    • Tessie…I did not know your story.

      I am so sorry. I hope he is rotting in hell.

      I am sorry for what he did to your son. I am so sorry your son was murdered for no fault of his.

      It’s incredibly tragic.

    • Tessie,
      Adequate words are impossible,
      but, along with all the other Chumps, I send you a heart full of love.

    • Tessie, I am so sorry for your loss. For you to be on here telling your story, proves your mightiness. Your phrase “They tell us who they are, if we listen” should be a title of a book that outlines the disordered mind of a cheating fucked up individual. My soul hurts for your loss. ?

      • Thank you for your kind words everyone. They are much appreciated. In sharing my story, if just one person’s life is saved, it gives some meaning to my son’s death…. something good can be wrested from such an evil act. That is comforting to me. He was only 14 and his life was just beginning. Hopefully, a life saved is his legacy in the world.

        I hope this makes sense. Sending you all hugs.

        • Love you. Thanks again. And I had forgotten that the judge put your kids in harm’s way.

        • Thank you Tessie for being so generous to share your story to warn other on this site regularly. Much love and gratitude to you.
          What I always wonder in these situations is how to handle these not so thinly veiled threats, such as the text SMS received. What actions risk escalating the behaviour of an unstable vindictive person, what actions could defuse the situation. What would be the safest course for SMS and her kids in this situation, bearing in mind that, as happened with you, it is unlikely the legal system will protect the children and keep this man at bay until it’s too late.

  • I also feel like we’re married to the same person. I received the exact same communications. My X spent 25 years trying to control and dominate me and our kids with emotional abuse, emotional and physical threats and escalating violence: shouting, throwing things, driving erratically, grabbing, pushing, and finally in one horrific scene after DDay 1 but before I kicked him out where he reached over our 10 year old daughter’s head and grabbed my arm and bent it backwards violently hurting me in an elevator full of people at a dance convention.

    He too has repeatedly threatened me saying that I would be sorry……

    I was also physically abused by my parents, by several other adults as a child, by almost every boyfriend I ever had as a young adult. It’s really hard to see these things for what they are. I’m so sorry that you’re going through this.

  • Needed to hear this especially this week. Thanks Chump Lady for once again reminding me.

  • Wow. I am super triggered by this post… the text messages:

    “Just stop it already. All of this bullshit. Stop overthinking everything. Quit being such a pain in the ass… This is all so stupid and unnecessary… But go ahead and keep pushing all of this. You’re going to deeply regret it one day.”

    I can hear my STBX’s voice in my head right now, because these are exactly the words he uses. Every time things aren’t going his way. Sometimes even when things are going his way. My instinct is to cower.

    My first post on CL was incredibly naive. I had no idea what I was dealing with. It is only after reading the experiences of other chumps here and then seeing them play out in my life over the past several months have I realized how disturbed and even potentially dangerous STBX can be.

    I just ordered the book by Lundy Bancroft.

    That’s all I can say right now.

    • Meh or Bust,

      The Bancroft book is excellent. The first step is really seeing and accepting what is in front of us. So very hard to do, but absolutely essential.

      Please take care of yourself.

  • Sometimes I still can’t believe how hard a lot of us worked to try to KEEP these losers, or how sad we were (are, if you’re closer to Dday) that they’re gone.

    On paper, we have a guy who is a control freak with an anger-management problem, cheating on his wife and infant children, and yet he still believes he’s quite a catch. Why is this guy somebody ANYone would want to keep? Sure, maybe he brought you box of Kleenex that one day you were sick on the couch with flu, but what else, really? There’s no “quality” to this person, just a hollow sucking shell of selfishness. In hindsight (now three years), I can’t believe I was ever sad he left.

    • Such a great comment! I cringe at how long I tolerated my ex in my life and how I fought to keep him. He really thought he was such a catch. He was on the verge of going broke which he hid from me, yet he would bark orders at me to buy a high end car, and other expensive gadgets that he’d enjoy and use for himself. I saw right through his games. Quite the entitled F— he was. I kicked his ass to the curb.

    • NWBiblio, I think one element that actually makes them more appealing (than if they left in a legitimate way) is the presence of the other women. They are delusional and actually want these freaks, treat them like they are a catch, and it affects the Chump’s thinking. Thankfully, it’s usually temporary.

    • Raising my hand up for clinging to the abusive Traitor long after DDay and until he left…Why? I know I was convinced I could never be abused and would never let myself be abused. Complete denial.

  • Ah, the intimidation tactic, I know it well. STBX has been pulling that shit forever. Of course I was a dancing chump, it worked!

    Around the time fuckwit moved out, he ended up coming to the house to pick up our son. Of course he felt completely entitled to come in the house (whithout even knocking) instead of waiting in the driveway. My home’s layout is such that you can walk through the kitchen and living room and end up in the same hallway, which goes into the bedroom. He was standing in the hallway closest to the kitchen so I walked through the kitchen and living room to go around him, and head for the bedroom. He cut me off at the pass and wouldn’t let me in my room. He kept saying condescendingly “What … you can’t talk to me?” I said, “Nope, got nothing to say to you!” So I walked back the other way, and he moved down the hall again and stood glaring at me. I walked out the door into the garage, and was going to leave, returning once he was gone, but his car was parked in front of the garage and I couldn’t get out. He had followed me into the garage and I said, “can you move your car? I’m leaving.” We ended up in a screaming match and he rushed toward me, snarling and scowling. I put my hand up in a “stop motion” and stoped him from coming closer when he made contact with my hand. He started screaming “YOU’RE A CRAZY BITCH! YOU’RE CRAZY! ” He ran to his car and grabbed his phone and started videotaping me, all the while screaming “YOU’RE CRAZY”.
    I screamed “well I hope you are going to turn that video camera on your own face, so you document EVERYTHING that is happening here! Do you want me to call the police!” He said in a calm and sinister voice, “Go ahead… I never touched you, in fact you are the one who assulted me!” Are you fucking kidding me! After he left I did call the police to see if I could make a statement and they told me I could, but they would also take his statement. Technically I did touch him, and based on what he said to me, he was banking on that fact!

    Ironically, last Friday I took my daughter to an “off to college self defense workshop”, the very first thing the retired police officer who was teaching the class taught … the stop sighn, putting your hand on the persons chest to indicate “keep your distance”.

    Be aware of the bait and switch! These disordered fuckwits know how to twist everything! Do not engage!

    • Omg…. GAB, that sounds terrifying! It reminds me of so many similar events in my past where I was the one abused but my response was blamed. And yet I stayed for more and more and pretzeled myself and cowered. Then grieved like nothing else after he was gone….. truly mind bending.

    • Kunty Kibbler did similar on a few occasions. Following me around the house, standing in front of exits, verbally taunting me with insults and baiting comments, trying to get me into some type of engagement.

      In one famous (here, anyway) instance, as I sat at the kitceh counter doing work and ignoring her verbal abuse, she finally said, “I want you to acknowledge me, dammit!!” I replied, “OK, here you go” and gave her the middle finger.

    • Reminds me of the time after D-day when I slammed my hand down next to GUBU’s head where he was “pretending to sleep” on the daybed.
      (He was ignoring me in my despair and was exceptionally snotty about it. )
      Didn’t touch him. Nowhere near.

      He said, sneering, “I’m going to tell my lawyer that you STRUCK me.” Cool as an effing cucumber, he was. Creep.

    • I did a refresher self-defense class a couple years ago with the program recommended by Gavin de Becker in his book. Highly recommend it ! The organization holds classes for women,children as well as the LGBT community, since they get harassed quite a bit.

  • Reptile roared, punched holes in walls, threw stuff around. So many people downplayed it when I told them. Well, it felt threatening to me and to my children! He was in such a rage one afternoon, right in front of my kids. I distracted them, talking brightly to them about a movie they were going to watch at a trusted neighbour’s house two doors down. It was -20C outside, so I bundled them into their coats and called the neighbour. Told her I needed her to take the kids NOW. Stayed at the front porch so I could see that my kids got safely there, the neighbour and I nodded and signaled to each other that the handoff was complete. Then I went into the living room where Reptile was still tearing the place up. I told him to get out. He stalked out to the car and sat in it for a couple of hours, motor running, in our parking spot in front of the house. Just glowering there. Then he came back in, and cheerfully announced that we were going to go cut down a Christmas tree, which was what our plan had been until he blew up the day. All smiles. Nothing happened! Nothing to see here!

    • ^^^^THIS^^^^

      I never understood how fuckwit could go into a rage and then 2 seconds later act as though nothing had happened! After everyone had been terrified, we would sit in silence and he would inquire as to “what was wrong with US!” I can’t believe I subjected my kids to that crap for so long. Hopium I guess ?‍♀️…. the evil drug that makes denial possible

    • Omg, this is so scary to witness. The raging, the seething, the volcanic and nuclear anger, only for them to switch in a second to happiness and as if nothing had taken place. It’s really frightening to witness this when it’s occurring. They dump their rage on us, and then they’re all well again. While we’re left with the toxic effects. This creeps me out to no end.

      • The rages are not real. They are not out of control, they pretend to be to scare us into doing what they want. That’s why they can flip the switch to cheerful as if nothing had happened. It’s all fake.

  • I think we are all surprised when the mask drops and we see the ugly underbelly of their personalities. Deadcheater’s would come out most when drinking. In one drunken rage he waved his gun around my face, threw it at me and told me to shoot him, grabbed the gun back went into another room and shot the gun off accidentally. Luckily it was pointed at the floor. Could have killed me or the dog. Why I didn’t leave that night I will question forever. He had the face of a choir boy but underneath was ugly aggression when cornered or crossed. Always raging, throwing things, punching walls. That particular night was yet another chapter of crying remorse and “I promise I’ll change”. Never did, towards the end of his life I was terrified of him and when he died I had a lot of people tell me they were relieved he did not take me with him. The line from suicide to homicide is thin. Take their “warnings” seriously, get a protective order if you can. I put in security cameras, bought my own gun and learned how to use it. These turds are not worth losing our lives over.

  • I feel terrorized and threatened by reading the texts and it has nothing to do with me. This woman needs to follow Chump Lady’s advice and seek legal protection, yesterday.

  • Sounds all too familiar. The POSH (Piece of S**T Husband) because extremely angry the day I accused him of cheating. I didn’t have evidence at the time but I knew his behaviors were different. Oh and I was 7 months pregnant so of course it was just my crazy hormones. One day I just tried to kiss him and he went crazy on me screaming that I’m an idiot for trying to pretend like everything was normal between us. One day he yelled at me that I peed too much in the middle of the night therefore he has to go stay in a “hotel”. And that if i wasn’t a selfish bitch I would use the other bathroom to not wake him up. So I guess I brought that on myself by being pregnant and peeing in our master bathroom. One day as he was storming out he said “I wish you would just die it would make it so much easier”. That comment came after I he found out that I didn’t tell him that I had received the newborn photos and didn’t give him a copy. Sounds like a reasonable punishment right…that the mother of his 3 week old baby should die because she was too busy raising the baby alone to remember to tell him the photos were in.

    After that comment I went no contact. I MEAN 0! A week later he filed for divorce. He sent me a text “it breaks my heart to do this but you gave me no choice”. I believe he thought filing for divorce would “scare” me to take him back. Well I went the opposite. I thanked him for FINALLY doing something and not just threatening me. After our first court date, he sent me a text saying he wasn’t ready to get divorced. We ended up going to dinner and I told him I was willing to but the divorce on hold and maybe try to give it another shot on one condition. He had to tell me where he was living. He refused. He said I’m too embarrassed. He was implying that he was living in a shitty motel. Look here buddy I have a Masters Degree and I was married to you….I know when you are lying! That was the end of any option I might have entertained about reconciling. I am proceeding with the divorce.

    These assholes anger stems from #1 knowing its all THEIR FAULT #2 the fact that we finally put a consequence on them. All my POSH use to have to do was threaten breaking up with me and I would do whatever it took. However, I draw the line at him spending nights away from his daughter with whore he works with.

    I have to thank CL and CN again! I read lots of stories about no contact and I’m hear to say it works! Last week I got another nasty text that was a bold face lie and asking a question about the house. I just responded “not sure. He responded with an even worst text saying he “could care less about my safety but he will be concerned about our daughter and the house”. As much as I wanted to respond calling him out on his lie with the proof I didn’t. And the texts stopped.

    • You should change his moniker to EPOSH–Evil Piece of Shit.

      Wow, I just can’t believe some of the stuff I read on here. You had the freaking nerve to *pee too much during pregnancy* in the comfort of your own bathroom! Unreal. Thank GOD that dinner you shared did not go the other way!

    • Good for you for not responding. Take a screen capture of his texts and forward them to your lawyer. Make sure to keep copies of your phone records for the lawyer too.

    • Dr. George Simon used the example of Scott Peterson during a seminar I attended. No signs of any character disorder until he started cheating on his pregnant wife and decided murdering his wife Lacey and unborn child was the best way to get off that sticky wicket…

  • The Worm speaketh, “I am sorry about everything and would like things resolved. I want to be able to meet all my obligations to the family financially.”
    Notice the lack of substance.
    I asked, “What exactly are you sorry about and what does resolved mean?”
    This from someone who cheated on me for most of our marriage and picked me up and threw me into a wall when I dared to complain….
    Guess what?
    I’m still waiting for an answer.
    Vagueness and equivocation are all clues and that the “person” you’re dealing with is a slimey little Worm…..

  • Oh my God does this trigger me. The RAGE!!!! And like someone else said, it was usually worse when HE made a mistake (which was most of the time because he was a prat). In the early years he would just rage, then as time went by he would throw things, then came the pushing and shoving and then eventually the violence. He locked me outside one time in February at midnight for an hour (in the snow) in just my underwear. Pinned me to the bed and threatened me with a broken whiskey bottle. You see, as I let everything slip by (I was afraid if he was arrested he would lose his residence permit for France), he became more and more bold. It won’t stop they just get bolder. In fact, he moved back to the States 2 years ago and I haven’t seen him since BUT he arrived back here in France on Sunday for our son’s wedding on Thursday. I can feel that old knot in my stomach already. In fact, he called me about 30 minutes ago “did I want to go for a drink with latest schmoopie because we are obviously all friends right, an oh, by the way, I am staying about 2 minutes away. I just said no, and hung up. In another era that would have had him storming here and throwing things around but now he can’t do that. Please stand our ground and stay safe.

  • So I recently figured out that STBX more than likely had multiple affairs during our marriage. If not physical, than definitely emotional. A made the realization after a “work friend” of his was moving to CA. STBX couldn’t help me do hardly anything around the house, but took a day off of work to help her move and went to several going away parties for her (how many going away parties does one need?!) and wanted to take our daughter to one of these parties. I of course put my foot down and said t was not appropriate to take her to the party. His response was to call me “Evil” and accuse me of making a case against him for being an unfit father and taking everything from him.

    Chump that I am, I ended up feeling guilty after the “work friend” unfriended me on FB. So I texted her saying that it was nothing to do with her and more to do with STBX not being upfront with me and about it not being an appropriate venue to take her to. She understood and offered me details of her party – time, who was going to be there (no kids), etc. She expressed that she really wanted to see my daughter , which confused me at the time because she had barely met her.

    Now this woman had claimed she had been cheated on, and understood my situation and that it is never okay to be cheated on. I asked her how she could be such good friends with a cheater and she claimed her situation was diffrerent because she did not have kids. Since I knew her as well, I asked if I could stop by and say my goodbye to her. She thought that would not be a good idea because I would trigger her and she was already so emotional about leaving.

    A few weeks later I was reading “A Beautiful, Terrible Thing” and a line in book that the OW had said triggered me. At that moment it dawned on me that this “work friend” had been much more than a friend. Stupidly, I shot off a text saying I knew she had an affair with my husband. It was the last thing I wanted to say to her. I just wanted her to know I had figured her out.

    Two days later I received an email from my STBX to stop texting her. “work friend” is pissed and I am harrassing her to the point that she may take legal action. ONE text. I told him I sent ONE text and he replied “Just stop. You are nuts”.

    So my fault for being triggered. I should have never sent anything, BUT I think this pretty much confirms that they had an affair. I sent 1 text and 2 days later hadn’t sent any more to her but she feels harrassed.

    I deleted her off my phone and blocked my STBX. No more contact, as the truth sets them off.

    • Good for you for blocking your STBX and his “work friend.” I did the same. Plus I blocked anyone who was her friend too.

    • Sounds familiar. She was in on the game, and thought she was winning the big prize. She didn’t care about you or your daughter. Awful people.

    • Actually, now that I thought about this scenario overnight, I realized I was taking the work of a known pathological liar at face value. My guess is “work friend” was not thinking of legal action. If I had received what I thought was a harrassing text from someone, I would have texted back and said stop texting me. I received no such response from her. STBX usually threatens some sort of legal action when I have figured out the truth about something.

      As far as I’m concerned, she can have the “prize”. I would love it if he moved to CA, far away from me.

  • Well, I completely missed the crux of the problem, didn’t I, CL? I was expecting you to talk about projection and entitlement. But his abusive behavior has become so entrenched, so normalized, in my life that I can’t see a threat for what it really is anymore.

    If I’m being honest with myself, the abuse is escalating. At first his ex-wife was a cunt (duh, red flag!); now it’s me. For a long time it was just a total dismissal of any of my needs, a complete unwillingness to compromise on anything, and anger at me for continuing to ask for partnership. It took him a while to unleash his rage directly at me, but now he’s done two episodes of full-on in my face screaming, spitting, pointing, towering over me. And that doesn’t count all the airborne object and holes in walls that resulted from my questions about his affair. He hasn’t hit me yet, but I understand it’s coming. Oh, and despite my concerns, he bought a gun in February. Refused to discuss it with me at all. (In fact, he raged at me for questioning his authority to “protect his family.” I suggested that, instead, we start with arming the security system we already have but don’t use. That didn’t go over well.)

    I just sent my lawyer those texts (and I’ve previously told my lawyer about his abuse), but I also told my lawyer I’m afraid he will go completely berserk if I ask for an order of protection. (I am not missing the irony in that statement.) I fear for me and my kids.

    My concern is this: my husband is outwardly a “great guy” and prides himself on being a “great dad.” This is his image to the community and his personal identity. He has already raged at me for suggesting that he’s actually not a great dad. If I ask for an order of protection, quite frankly I’m afraid of his reaction. I don’t know if he will hurt me or the kids.

    At any rate, I’m taking it to my lawyer about it. Thank you all for looking out for me and each other. I found CL last year, and visited often for a dose of reality amidst all the spackeling. If not for you all and Lundy Bancroft, I would still be wondering what is wrong with ME.

    • SMS — I have another comment awaiting moderation (I think because it includes links to a couple of resources).

      I wanted you to know that I also was so focused on the infidelity (okay, infidelities in my case) that I didn’t see what was right in front of me … the abuse was the MOST important thing. Not the infidelities. I have come to understand that the infidelities are simply an off-shoot of the fact that my STBX is an abuser.

      So, please know you aren’t alone. When you are embroiled in the mess, I can attest to how hard it is to really, actively see what is right in front of you.

      Excellent job sending those texts to your attorney. You have MIGHTY in you — you are showing it in a myriad of ways. Always remember that.

      • Thanks, JesssMom. I do see the abuse as the main problem, the infidelity as a side note. The intense pain came from the betrayal, of course, because for all of his shortcomings I didn’t think this man was capable of cheating. The rest was a “slow boil.”

        I see a lot of the same characteristics in my husband and other cheaters described here. A lot of abuse tied up with infidelity. CL is so right–it comes down to an entitlement mindset and a complete lack of accountability.

    • He BOUGHT A GUN?!

      Holy shit, SMS — get that order. They will take away his gun. (Ask me how I know.)

      Look, one way to get through abuse mentally is to minimize it to yourself. You know what’s a good sign you’re being abused? When everyone around you is like HOLY SHIT YOU’RE BEING ABUSED! And you’re all like, oh… huh… really? You don’t think I’m making too much of this?

      And he’s totally mindfucked you to think that way — the problem is you “making a big deal” of this.

      Please, PLEASE take his threats seriously and put the heavy boot of law enforcement on his neck. If I could, I’d put my own boot on his neck, and I’m sure a few thousand chumps here would like to as well. He needs to realize that the cost of fucking with you is too high. A lawyer, a judge, and the cops can help with that.

      • SMS,

        Glad you’re reading all this. Some follow up comments.

        CL: “He BOUGHT A GUN?! Holy shit, SMS — get that order. They will take away his gun.”

        This. SMS, I was already fearful for your safety, and the safety of your little ones. As I was reading your story I also thought of Tessie’s horrible story (glad she spoke up here too). And now we find out he bought a gun in February. I just hope he has no clue how to use it.

        Stay away from him. Seriously – if you’re trapped between him and a burning building, run into the burning building. He’s that dangerous. Glad you’re with your mom. Hope your kids are there with you full time.

        Another +1 to CL’s comments on minimizing abuse to yourself. I’ve lived it. I can’t remember most of the horrible things my father did, and I’m not sure I want to. During my first marriage, during I think my fourth year of therapy, my therapist, who was trying to get me to see it, finally blurted out, “You do realize that she’s being verbally and emotionally abusive to you, right.” I was all like, “What do you mean, exactly?” Still coming to grips with all of that. It’s weird to discover that the past you remember isn’t the past that happened, in major ways.

        Trust all of us on this. You were being abused. Cheating is just one form of abuse. You got a whole smorgasbord of them. Glad you got out, now stay out, and protect yourself.

        Male bears in the wild will attack and eat juvenile bears, even their own cubs (they never form a family unit with the female). Female bears will go berserk if anything, even a bigger male bear, gets near their cubs. Time for you to get in touch with your inner mama bear, embrace her, let her guide you to protect your cubs with everything you have at your disposal (including the police, the legal system, and all the other institutions of our civilized society).

        Hugs. Strength. Peace.

    • SMS, be absolutely sure that you tell your lawyer and the police about the gun. If you go the protection order route then whoever is serving the Order on him needs to be aware he has a firearm. You said in your letter to CL that you moved out. Are you still living separate from him and are you living somewhere he can not access? If you are concerned that he is going to escalate then you might want to consider moving in with family or friends for awhile. There is safety in numbers.

      • I am living separately, with my mom.

        I am listening, CL. A little freaked out right now, but listening.

        • I’m glad you’re out of the situation, but he does know where you live, I assume? Call a women’s shelter today; they will have a list of other tips to keep yourself physically and financially safe for the time being.

          • This. I was going to say that if you and your child aren’t out of the home, then you need to be, and that a women’s shelter would be the safest place. If you’re at your mother’s then again contacting the shelter for tips to keep you safe is a great idea.

            The shelter is also an excellent place for getting referrals to therapists. While all infidelity is abuse, you’re with an obvious abuser. You should have a therapist who’s got experience working with abuse survivors.

            Best of luck and keep us posted!

        • SMS- it will all be ok. Don’t get overwhelmed. Do all of these things secretly.

          Here is a tip to help you cope. It works! It saved my sister’s life.

          Narcs hate for the spotlight to be off them. They detest someone having no sparkles or boring them, and they bore so easily. Like Sauron’s eye in the Lord of the Rings, you WANT his attention elsewhere. Not watching you.

          How do you do this? I want you to become the most boring mother fucker on the planet. When he calls, just take on a neutral, flat tone. Or texts you.

          I want you to go into agonizing detail about your tooth ache, the itemization of grocery list, the number of paint swatches you saw today…you want him to lose interest in you. This is a life saving tip my sister learned from a DV Counselor.

          Narcs don’t have empathy- no patience. Do not talk about anything emotional or controversial. You are getting your ducks in a row. He can’t be tipped off!

          Him calling or contacting you has to be the most boring thing on the planet. He will seek new supply. It works- my sister was able to stealth move of her home, furnish it basically and slip away into the night with her son from a violent maniac who forced her to eat her false fingernails.

          He never saw it coming. He had no idea where she went. She had lined up a new job, forwarded her mail to a delivery service, new phone, the works.

          Become flat, dull, boring when he calls. Like a shark- he will swim to another victim for his supply.

          It is all going to work out. Don’t let fear paralyze you. Baby steps in the right direction. Remember- he is not your friend, no matter what he says.

        • Lundy’s book completely flipped my understanding of my ex’s behavior, too. I started going to a group for women who had experienced abuse, and it has made all the difference. The facilitator said that while not all cheaters are abusers, almost all abusers are also cheaters. In my community we have a safe house. Yes, it’s a women’s shelter, but it’s very different than how I imagine a “shelter.” It’s staffed 24/7 for safety, the doors and window are alarmed, there are panic buttons. It’s a safe house. Go find the one in your community. Tour the inside, have their number on speed dial. If you need to make a quick exit from your mom’s house after you get an order of protection, you’ll know exactly where to go and what to expect.

          I’ve been blown away by the amount of passionate support for women who have been through this crap, even in my small little town. Reach out, just send the first email or make the first call, and the doors will fly open for you.

          Good luck, and I’m glad you’re taking this seriously, especially after he bought a gun.

    • SMS, I sincerely hope that you pack up your beautiful children and leave today. This man is out of control and has a gun. Nothing in your house is worth the lives of you and your children.

  • First, SMS — I’m sending you and your little ones a big, virtual (((hug))). I am so very sorry that you and your kids are going through this.

    Second, you need to KNOW (really, really know) … this is NOT your fault. His behavior, his reaction, the devastation, the pain, the fear, and all of the other hellishness that goes along with this experience … NONE of it is your fault.

    And, now — I will reiterate what so many others have stated already via their own experiences. Your husband is dangerous. He is sending you very clear messages to that effect. As hard as it is, please listen.

    With great strength and awareness, you read Lundy Bancroft (excellent resource!), and you acted. Bravo! This is not an easy thing to do in the midst of the insanity. Take a small second to be proud of yourself for taking a necessary, protective, and wholly warranted action that protected you and your little ones.

    Now it is time to follow through. Get the order of protection — make sure you talk to family and friends you trust (you need a shell of protection … layers) — call the Domestic Violence Hotline for someone to talk to and to get advice from — and keep reading (here’s a good rendering of the cycle of abuse given to me by my therapist

    I’ve been where you are. My STBX came completely unhinged — and this site, the wonderful ladies and gentleman here were largely responsible for saving me and my kids from harm. Please keep reading here, post in the forums, and trust that these people have your best interest at heart.

    I was lost in guilt, accustomed to tip-toeing around his mood swings … so much so that I never understood what was right in front of me. I was married to an abuser (even though he never hit me … he was extremely aggressive, verbally abusive, and he raped me once after an argument). This is domestic violence.

    You and your little ones have been living with an abuser. And, with all of my heart — in the pit of my stomach — with tears of understanding in my eyes, I need you to know that you never deserved this. Never.

    Please take care of yourself and your little ones. I’m sending all of my best thoughts your way.


    Jess’s Mom

    • * gentlemen (there really is more than one guy on this site … my apologies for the typo!) 🙂

    • Wow, the tip-toeing around mood swings. I can see the mood swing in his jaw bone before he even knows it’s coming. I can practically smell a mood swing.

      I know I’m doing the right thing. I am ashamed to have ever gotten involved in this madness, but I hope somehow to turn it in to something positive. Oh my, I cannot wait for my life to be about positivity again.

      • >>”I can see the mood swing in his jaw bone before he even knows it’s coming.”

        For me, it was his tone of voice. He could be saying something totally neutral (or even positive), but I could tell that something was festering just by the tone of his voice. It became my calling card for trying to prevent his asshole-behavior. I did this for over two decades.

        >>” I am ashamed to have ever gotten involved in this madness.”
        I get this (I used to feel this way as well) … but, please know it’s not your shame to bear. I am a black belt. I know how to defend myself physically — and I have successfully done so in the past. I TEACH women how to defend themselves. And yet, I was in an abusive marriage. I was being abused. The thing about abuse is that it is insidious — it pulls on our deepest desires to be loved, our nurtured self-criticism. It is, first and foremost, an attack on our emotions. Once the emotions are beaten down, the aggression and physical abuse becomes a bit of a blur. This is why (in my opinion) abuse is so darned hard to see in the midst of it all.

        Because I was so prone to blaming myself for … well, everything … when the shit hit the fan and people (especially here at CL) were calling my situation abuse … I finally came to realize that NO HUMAN deserves this. No matter what I did, what decisions I made, how crappy I was (in my mind … since abuse really does take a toll on the self-esteem) … no matter what … I am a human, and I did not deserve to be abused. NOBODY does. You certainly don’t. And your kids definitely don’t either.

        Keep your guard up; keep listening. The road you are on is bumpy as hell, but you have a beautiful future for you and your kids to get to. And you will get there.

      • Go to a women’s shelter; do not stay at your mom’s. He knows where she lives, he can get to you AND her.

        Get the Protective Order and get the hell out of there.

  • Sweet girl,
    Please keep us updated. We want to know you and your children (and mom) are safe.
    Everyone on here has been there done that in some form. Advice is solid. As are concerns.

    My STBX raged when I served him divorce papers. Called me names etc. Nine months later he is still texting me, cycling from rage to self-pity to charm on an almost daily basis.

    After he moved out I immediately changed the locks (surprisingly cheap) and bought a couple of Nest cameras. Also worth it and just plug them in, set up the App and you’re good to go. I get emails (or texts) when the camera detects ANY activity. And it’s so sensitive even movement of car lights will trigger a notification.

    Oh, and one example of his texts recently was “Come to your senses and stop this divorce.”

    I did come to my senses… and I can’t divorce him fast enough.

    • It is so crazy how they can just go from rage to self pity to charm. I see it with my children and am sorry because they see it as normal. He will totally berate them and then ask them to go fishing. Narcs dad did the same thing to him.

      Daughter who chose no contact gets intermittent kibble requests via text. Today’s: “Do you think I can break thru the tough girl persona I taught you? I am hoping you will come to my birthday party.” His birthday is 3 months away! Notice how the whole thing revolves around Stbx.

      Today’s topic is an eye opener because I can see how you think well he never hit me… but in most cases of violence that we see on the news, everyone says they had no idea when there were lots of signs that people downplayed. My stbx is paranoid, has guns galore and a concealed carry permit yet he says he is afraid of me. I think maybe I am the one who should be concerned.

      • FeelingIt … My STBX also never hit me. Yet, the signs were there. When the implosion happened, he attempted suicide and suddenly I had the police and mental health professionals warning me that he “flagged for homicidality.” I was stunned. Because I didn’t see the signs — because his abusive nature was so “normal” to me, I just didn’t understand what I was dealing with.

        Assessing your situation and naming the abuse is a vital first step to protecting yourself and your kids. It’s so very hard (talk about cognitive dissonance!), but I promise you — you will get through it. One step at a time.


        • JessMom, this post today has triggered me as well. All I will say about the restraining order is that I had one, for me and the 2 older girls, they refused to give me one for the younger 2 as he “hasn’t harmed them yet”. Seriously. When I called to report his violation of the order for the 3rd violation (no action taken the previous 2 violating events) the sheriff sat me down and said, “Ma’m, I am going to be honest with you, until and unless you are on a gurney or dead, we won’t follow up on these calls. Too many of you go back to them. It’s a waste of time for us.” I could not believe my ears. I got a can of bear spray (shoots 25 feet) and decided I would do whatever I needed to protect us. He had supervised visitation for 4 months, but charmed and flirted with the women assigned to his case and she wrote a glowing report of how wonderful he was. They are specifically told not to give the children gifts; he brought them several times and the agency did nothing, despite my complaints. My lawyer documented it all. “Jury of 12 rather than carried by 6” was my motto. In my state, guns are nearly impossible to get and I was told after the assault that even carrying bear spray, (if he had a clever lawyer), could paint me as “waiting for the opportunity” to assault him. Can you believe that???? We have to be vigilant and do our very best to protect ourselves as best we can. Trust your gut, always.

          • I did three things after Dday: got a lawyer, got a therapist, and bought a 12-gauge shotgun. Everyone thinks STBX is great. But I’ve seen him without the mask. The intentional infliction of cruelty on weak targets. The all-consuming hatred of those he perceives to be his enemy. Will he or his psycho AP really try to harm me? I don’t know, but if they do, I’m not going down without a fight.

            • 12 gauges are the big bad of the shotgun world, but they pack too much punch and can be hard to lug around. A short barrel 20 gauge has half the kick and is just as deadly (as in a 12 gauge will kill them 5 times over, while a 20 gauge will only kill them 3 times over.)

              Further, you can actually train a decent amount with a 20 gauge because it won’t bruise your shoulder after 3 shots. If you go to a range, just be upfront about what you’re using – they may not allow it. This is important because if you’re going to defend your life with a weapon, you should be very familiar with the weapon, and using it right should be second nature. Take a class if you have to.

              Anyway, here’s hoping that none of you need this advice at all.

              Hugs. Strength (perhaps through superior firepower). Peace.

              • Good response, Aeronaut. I don’t mean to imply this is the correct course of action for everyone. While I have experience with handguns, this is the first long gun I’ve owned. It is a Mossberg 930 Home Defense, short barrel, lightweight, and recommended by the personnel at the gun shop. They offer a home defense course at their range specifically for women in my (any chump’s) situation which is taught by a woman. Gun ownership should never be taken lightly.

          • Ah, I hate that you had such crappy “help” when you needed it the most. When the system fails, it’s extra-devastating because we are already desperate when we asked for help.

            And, of course, when the system (even by default) protects the dangerous person — particularly while leaving our kids exposed to the danger — it is just horrifying.

            I’ve known women who’ve stayed with their abusers so they wouldn’t have to leave their kids alone to be abused (since the system required physical, recorded evidence of abuse to the child — the threats toward and abuse of the mother didn’t count). I’ve also known women who simply took off, going “underground” as much as possible — and not legally divorcing in order to protect themselves and their children. (Though I don’t know any personally, I’m certain their are men out there who’ve done similar in order to protect themselves and their kids.)

            In my childhood, my dad was abusive — and my mom couldn’t handle the court’s dismissal of her complaints, so she left. She abandoned me and my sibling to my father.

            In a thousand ways, the system can fail us. And, it seems so darned random (even within the same jurisdiction). This is why I highly recommend nonprofit, mostly free resources. Getting people experienced in domestic violence in your corner can be a huge help, even within the system.

            I was lucky. I had a police officer and two mental health professionals who were willing to flag my husband and warn me (sternly) that I needed to protect myself and my kids. I will always be grateful for that.

    • I admire all you ladies (and Men) who put up with the abusive scumbags who cheated and lie! Yes, we want it to be how we thought it was with a loving spouse before we were hit with reality. My wife was always abusing me verbally and I thought it was just her latin temper. I let it go but it was wearing on me. It’s our second marriage and we have a 4 year old, I made the commitment of marriage at 50 to have another child only to have her run off with a guy 20 years older than her and destroy our home and family. I caught her May 11th and it all blew apart. She called the police on me for a ” wellness check” so I packed up and left to return to where my business is in IL. I have never been arrested and didn’t want false charges put on me for domestic violence.
      Two weeks later she files for divorce. We live in FL and moved there 1.5 years ago, and I would fly back and fourth to my business.
      She was molested by her Step dad and abused by her mother. Her Mother still is an abusive nut job and I should have looked at the dysfunctional family before getting involved, my mistake. It’s been very difficult to overcome the pain of betrayal from the one you love, but in reality, these people we trusted and created a family with do not love them self. Last week I was visiting my son and she came home drunk from her affair partner, and tried to take my 4 year old out of the bedroom we were sleeping in.
      We both called the police and they made her leave our house! The next morning she texts me if I want coffee and donuts and if we want to go to church together like nothing happened! Very disordered, probably PTSD and the affects of never healing from Child abuse. I took my son and went to a hotel for the week. She went crazy because I wanted nothing to do with her drama for the week and stayed away at a hotel. Of course she called the police two more times for wellness checks since I was not around her with my son, and she had no control. She only had her affair partner to be with and I let her know that was her choice. Get used to 50/50 custody since you decided to betray me with another man instead being faithful to me and my son. Our house has the mortgage in her name and my boundary is, have your affair, you pay for the mortgage. She can not afford it so now it is two months behind. I delayed the divorce with abatement and request for Marriage counseling so now she is under pressure for her actions with no way until late Aug./Sept to get any support from me on the mortgage. She also makes more money on paper than I do from her job. Her decision to screw another man, destroy my home and family with divorce, and lie to everyone like nothing is happening is about to result in major issues. The house will go into foreclosure, we will get divorced, and she just threw away a marriage and the stable life for my little boy. I am most angry about what is happening to him.
      I wish I had met and married a woman like you ladies with your character and morals. Too bad we could not sift out the cheaters and liars and let them have each other leaving us to each other so we could all be happy and together in our marriages.They would then go through life as the evil, miserable souls they are. This would take the pain and misery away from us and our children we all had to experience.
      The blunt truth on this site has helped me recover better than any others, which all cry for reconciliation and getting the spouse back. The evil I see in my spouse is strange, how they can hate you , rewrite the marriage, and make you into the evil person as they screw another person while married to you. Thank you CL for the clarity. Feeling better already!

      • I am very sorry for what you and your son are going through. This stuff is truly horrible to experience.

        I just wanted to add some food for thought —

        I was also molested by my step-dad. And, there was other abuse in my childhood (it was quite the circus side-show). Instead of becoming an abuser, I developed (maybe over-developed) a deep compassion and empathy toward others. I particularly became protective toward children.

        On the flip side, my abusive STBX was also abused as a child (verbal and physical). Unlike me, his response to the abuse was to become angry and abusive.

        So, childhood abuse — while certainly an important factor to consider when entering into a committed relationship — does not necessitate how a person will develop. So many factors play a role in human development. For me, I had a couple of teachers over the years who were simply supportive and positive. This was enough to give me a life-line when I was developing the person I would become.

        It is so tragic that little, innocent lives are so deeply impacted by the horrible, selfish actions of adults. Since recognizing the abuse in my marriage, I’ve been diligently working with my girls to help them understand that this type of behavior is not acceptable. Abuse is never, ever acceptable. More than anything, I regret “missing” the signs for so long because my kids came to see it all as normal human behavior. It is time to unravel that knot and stop the cycle.

        Take good care of yourself and your son. Here’s hoping for a more peaceful future for you both.

  • What made me find Chumplady was that I googled cheating husband + rage (something like that), I got scared for the furst time when he raged at me over Skype for not wanting him back. I was holding our then three month old baby, it was 5 months after he coldly discarded me at 8 months preggers. This opened my eyes and was the beginning of getting my out of the extreme mourning phase and introducing grey rock.

    I font think the “you will regret it” threat was meant as a threat of violence, more as in “you will regret not having the awesome me and our awesome family with me”.

    But all in all he sounds so much like my XH with the raging and wall punching and I now believe anything can happen with this class of disordered. Hence… I havent been back not even in the same country as him for three years now.

    • With all due respect, I think his threat against SMS was a violent one. That’s why he bought a gun.

  • This is how I’m connecting the dots: “come home or you’ll regret it”
    It is important to protect yourself from this …. person. Believe him!
    It is important to show those threats to your lawyer and get a protection order.
    I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I wish you strength and keep your sanity for the sake of your children.

  • What an entitled, self-loving F $$K! Your story is so similar to mine! Please listen to CN, and use the legal system. I would pass all info to your and let them be the “bad guy”. Stay gray rock with the ass, be brief with answers to him, but don’t engage or threaten or blame him. Just reply, “I understand”, “I will think about it”, “I’m checking”. Always be very cautious and alert, and listen to your instinct. Stay strong, you will get through this.

  • So familiar…. I was with a cheater for 2.5 years (not married thank God). He kept lying and cheating and then he had the nerve to say that I would regret dumping him… uuuuuhhh seriously??? He still thinks I’ve made a mistake dumping him (while he has continued having multiple ‘girlfriends’)… yeah right… I really regret getting rid of an unreliable, untrustworthy, weak, lying SOB… lol.. they really think they are God’s answer to women.. they really think they’re so awesome having all these women who want them (in their minds)… they really think we ‘regret’ getting rid of them, throwing away such an awesome specimen of men… seriously… all these cheaters have warped thinking.

  • Hey Guys,
    I hope someone reads this. I’m late reading today.
    I’m the differently- abled woman with the spinal injury living under the same roof as cheaterpants who came home with bold hickey.
    I tried talking to him about us going our separate ways now.
    Here’s the threat :” I should have shut you up a long time ago.” Then “you will pay for this.” He has also threatened to commit suicide. I filed and got a temporary order. Hey same rage: it started with him punching the walls.

    Any one care to comment on the threats.

    • I would just say talk to a lawyer asap! See what your options are. Take it seriously.

    • Lioness – please read the rest of the comments and apply the responses to YOUR situation (even though they were intended for the letter writer). You are dealing with a dangerous person. Please take precaution and get help (attorney, order of protection, Domestic Violence Hotline, trusted family and friends, etc.).

      Stay safe.

      Take Care,
      Jess’s Mom

    • Take the threats very seriously. I take it you are particularly vulnerable since you can’t physically run away from him fast due to your injury. Report the threat and see if you can be rehoused immediately for your own safety. If I read it correctly, with a spinal injury you are probably using a wheelchair and are extremely vulnerable. There’s no way you should be in the same house with him. Can you get help from a disabled persons support agency so move out or get him out?

  • SMS (and anyone else in the same situation), I don’t want to be alarmist…. But then I do. Please Google news items for the number of times men facing relationship breakup have killed their children, then themselves. With the failure of a relationship, they can become suicidal, because they can’t face their responsibility for the outcome. In their minds, suicide by itself is also failure, but if they can deprive your children of their lives, it becomes the ultimate act of control, and thus converts it into “winning”, even if they die. Before you say that’s too twisted, look at everything else they do. Isn’t it all an attempt to retain control at any cost?

    I hope I’m wrong. But given what you’ve told us, I don’t think I am. Why take any chances with your life, or your children’s?

    For what it’s worth I was in a relationship with a guy that turned abusive, and I got the chills reading some of these accounts, seeing all the similarities. Had to flee in the middle of the night, get some good friends to help eject him (I owned the home) while I stayed off stage, then sold up and rented a room off a friend for a few years until I was confident enough to re-start my life. Cut all contact and didn’t leave him any ways to find me. Never stay in contact with someone after you’ve seen their crazy side.

  • Vic, thank you for this. I did that google news search. Chilling because in their pictures they look so trustworthy, so “normal”. I would not hesitate to have him as a little league coach or something to that effect.
    You just don’t know what is deep inside people.
    This experience caused me to take divorce preparation deep underground. Whereas before I would have thought “he’d never hurt us” now I am not so sure. I am taking my daughters and getting the hell out of here when the papers are served.

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