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‘Is it my fault my ex ran off with our nanny?’

Dear Chump Lady,

My ex-husband cheated and ran off with the nanny. According to my ‘friends’ and family, it’s all my fault and they knew all along that this was coming. I feel like I’m being abused and cheated on all over again when they say these things. Can you please please put these sentences through the UBT? Here are the response I wish I could fling in their face, if I was brave enough.

“Well I would never hire somebody else to take care of my children. See what comes of it.”
– Because working men never cheat on their SAHM wives.
– Aren’t you lucky you have a husband with a steady job and no disabilities.

“I knew something was fishy 5 years ago.”
– So you are a co-conspirator?
– Funny you are only mentioning it now.

“What did you think would happen if you left him home with the nanny all day?”
– Do I control his actions and dictate that he should stay home instead working outside of home, as was the plan?
– Should I have quit my job and let the family starve to death so I could watch him all day and make sure he wasn’t cheating.
– What did you think would happen if I worked with men all day (which I do). Somehow I’ve managed never to cheat with any of them. Weird, how did I manage that?

Your webpage is my lifeline these days!


Dear Chompingchump,

What an odious assortment of Switzerland friends you have there. I don’t think you need me. Your internal UBT is pretty awesome. What you do need is COURAGE to respond. I know we live in a world in which we’re supposed to take offense at factual truths, but fuck that noise. Look, if these people can have the slack-jawed NERVE to blame you for your own abandonment? Then you can summon the self-respect to respond with basic common sense. Every reply you gave there was a rational statement, not an insult.

Yes, men can cheat on stay-at-home mothers just as easily as working-outside-the-home mothers.

Yes, people exist in a world with millions of attractive people — and even work along side some of them! and manage not to cheat on their partners.

Yes, I committed no crime hiring a childcare worker.

Why are you finding it hard to speak truth to stupid? I understand that this sort of blameshifting broadsides chumps. It’s hard to think on your feet. But it’s also hard to respond if you’ve internalized any of the cultural messages that say this shit IS our fault. We could’ve prevented it. We weren’t trying hard enough. We missed a spot. Or if we’re just being too damn chumpy — well, I wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings with a tart remark. Really? Because this person just sputtered absolute crap with ZERO consideration of YOUR feelings.

Change the narrative, chumps. Speak UP. If someone blame shifts infidelity on to you? RETURN TO SENDER. Do NOT accept delivery.

When I explain the phenomenon of Switzerland friends and family, I usually couch it with insights like “they’re afraid.” If they can assign blame, then they won’t feel vulnerable themselves.

But really people, this is just shitty behavior. If someone takes your heartbreak as an opportunity to score superiority points (“Well, I would never leave my child with a nanny”), cut them out of your life. At the very least, speak up. Yes, you may as well exhort a lamppost, but you will also telegraph that you are NOT accepting the blame.

Okay, let’s UBT those sentences and be much bitchier this time.

“Well I would never hire somebody else to take care of my children. See what comes of it.”

Yes, hiring childcare… see what comes of it. I get a career. My children get food on the table and a roof over their heads. I’m financially independent of the abandoning fuckwit in my life. I have better life choices. Horrors, this is what comes of daycare — self-supporting women.

I’m so glad YOU would never put yourself in a position to be cheated on. Knowing that you’re exceptional is so very comforting.


“I knew something was fishy 5 years ago.”

Unsaid, you think I didn’t know something was off? So what? You were ahead of the curve? You could NEVER be deceived, because you have awesome powers of observation that I lack — which you’d like to share with me now. Five. Years. After. The. Fact.


“What did you think would happen if you left him home with the nanny all day?”

Sex orgies. White slavery. Fucking right there on the Pack N’ Play. Carnal abandonment with tinker toys.

Oh I know I shouldn’t leave my children in such over-sexed surroundings, but I forgot to tether my husband to a post that morning, and well, mistakes happen. (Turns out, posts and tethering just turn nannies on.)


Chompingchump — Please dump these people from your life.

This post ran previously, and nanny affairs and blameshifting “friends” are still a thing, alas.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Always room for a blameshift. In November, I was out walking my 13 year old dog on a leash on our public road when a neighbor’s dog ran out unleashed and attacked my dog taking a large chunk of flesh which required a vet visit, staples and stitches. After the neighbor ran out, grabbed the dog and apologized, he said, I think my dog attacked because your dog tried to bite her. I was incredulous then angry. Normally I am very chumpy and never say anything but I stopped and almost yelled, my dog was on a leash and you did not have your dog under control, this was not my fault. I was shaking. I know the feeling of wishing I was grace under pressure. I am sure there are all sorts of eloquent yet snarky comments to be made but in the end it would be lost on these people and I think you just need to get your revenge by living well.

    This is the place to vent. You did stand up for yourself and got away from the cheater! Message sent. You are mighty!

    • What is it with some dog owners. I had two of my Rotties on a public footpath going passed a house. A terrier type was snarling the other side of the fence at my two who didn’t react. The terrier then smashed through the picket fence, breaking it, bit one of my dogs and my son on the welly boot. It was very quick but one of mine must have bitten it back and left it with a wound on its back.
      We got away when the owner came out and picked up the dog.
      Next thing she was knocking on my door demanding I pay her vet bill for her dog. Yours is a Rottweiler and so must have been the aggressor. I refused point blank so she called the police and gave a statement. They were not interested and didn’t even want to talk to me.
      I told her she was lucky I didn’t press charges for my son getting bitten, her dog has already bitten the postman and she had to pay a fine.
      I will not be backing down anytime soon. had my dog smashed through her fence and bitten her dog then ok. It is always ok to stand up for the truth even if you stand alone. A mantra to get us through crap like swiss friends. I got rid of the few very early on.

      She has since called the police on another neighbour who had said ‘mean things’ to her. Called it an attack. LOL

      • How coincidental, the dog that bit mine was a terrier. And yes, the owner remarked there was a spot of blood on his dogs’ s snouts where my dog had bitten his- didn’t require treatment and never mind that my dog had a gaping wound.

    • The dog owner was attempting to place the blame on you & your dog. You were having none of it…I think you acted extremely well under the circumstances. I hope she paid the vet bill.

    • I hate irresponsible pet owners. Scenarios like these have happened to me. Most of the times the dogs attacking my dog were smaller so minimal damage to my dog. I laughed when they tried to make me foot the vet bill. One incident it was 2 big dogs to my dog. The owners were slowly meandering to the dog fight until I pulled out my weapon and chambered a round. I was legitimately terrified because the two dogs kept trying to attack ME and my dog kept putting himself in front of me. Then, the a$$wholes wanted to run up and get their dogs. I should have called the police but my boy had a profusely bleeding head wound and I was more concerned with his health and safety than having them cited.


    While my elderly X was pretending to have dementia, I hired a lovely local woman to babysit him so I could grocery shop, continue my animal rescue work, etc. She had been a nanny for 30 years to neighborhood families, and was well loved, well known, went to church, etc.

    It turns out her husband was providing the X with the drugs that allowed/caused the supposed dementia. I found this put post neurological testing that found no neurological problems, but plenty of others, and I had thrown him out.

    I was confronted with “friends” who tasked me for not knowing that this person sold drugs. According to them, it was well known. So, why didn’t you warn me? “ Because we thought you must know… same for his secret drinking. And scary behaviors.” They knew. But “felt sorry for me for staying with him”.

    Walked away and never spoke to any of them again. They could tell me after he was gone, but not while I was suffering day to day.

    They were cowards, not friends. I love that

    • When one has a mentality of strength, they want people with similar strength to stand alongside them. Being weak or a coward has no place next to them, so one must turf the Switzerlanding arseholes.

  • These same “friends” would be equally critical of you if you’d been a SAHM, and your husband had an affair with his co-worker.

    Reject the narrative that cheating is caused b/c the wife/spouse/partner isn’t meeting needs. Cheating is betrayal, and the catalyst is the sense of entitlement that most cheaters seem to have.

    You have real friends right here at Chump Nation, and if you’re lucky, maybe some local chumps meet up near where you live.

    • Dear dear Chompingchump,

      I discovered my husband’s affair (the one cockroach I could see) in November of 2017.
      He moved out last February, citing a laundry list of grievances about me, which he chose to keep to himself for 27 years and upon leaving still chose to “not get into”.

      It took me SIX MONTHS to go from the incomprehensible demoralization of it Being All My Fault to the righteous rage of This Has ZERO To Do With Me. But moments of doubt continued to haunt me.

      He claimed their relationship was over. We have a business we built together and I said we needed to figure something out because it would be too painful for me to stick around if they were still together.

      Last Monday I found out he has been lying to my face for a year. He moved her to the town where he is currently living and our business is located.

      And they are also breaking up. Why?

      He has been cheating on her. Tinder, the Asian massage parlors.

      It is NOT you. It is NOT you. IT IS NOT YOU.

  • I hope you are not on the hook to have to give him alimony. Those friends are your enemies who are talking among themselves. Separate from them and get therapy, eat healthy and move you and you’re children forward from this mess.
    Having kept these enemies in my life caused my healing and hurt to take way too long to get here where I am now.
    I finally feel like I can really move forward and I don’t feel the deep anger, hurt , depression I felt for all these years. No more. Now I place full blame on the losers and enablers who were also so called family and friends.
    It’s really sad to keep losing so much but the nice thing really is starting over and closing all the old doors behind you and never look back and never question your own judgement. They are life’s losers and they have to live with what they have done. Walk away in dignity. You rock!

  • One, odious is an underrated word these days. Two, was your husband working from home, Chomping, or was he sickly/lazy/unwilling? You did EVERYTHING to make sure the wheels didn’t fall off the family wagon, and because HE couldn’t pick up the slack at home you were FORCED to hire someone to help with your children and household management. It’s just unfortunate that she also helped herself to your husband. Fire some of that scattershot into the asses of the yodelling mountain goats in your life who are looking down from their mountains of superiority at you, next time they feel it appropriate to chastize you for your sensible life skills. There are many moral and reputable nannies who don’t fuck their employers, you just got yourself a bung one. Hugs to you, I hate hearing how chumps do everything they possibly can to make a situation okay for others (in your case your family) and then get the blame, where as those unable to fight their way out of a wet paper bag get a pass because, “oh you know, it’s Bob, he’s always been unable to help himself.” Fuck that noise.

    • The LW did write that her husband is disabled. Well, too disabled to work, too disabled to look after his own children but obviously not too disabled to f**k around. Interesting

  • A side effect of having your naïveté forcefully stripped away is seeing that people can really suck. Those who you thought were safe can actually be capable of malicious and cruel behaviors. They were all along, you just didn’t see it before. Spackle isn’t just used for spouses. I spackled over my family’s shittiness my whole life because it felt safer to dream up the nice family I wanted rather than face the reality of what I actually had. But when they flat out told me it was my fault that he cheated? Suddenly I saw them in a whole new light. I realized I’m the only one among them who isn’t a serial cheating raging narcissist. I married one, yes, but at least I hadn’t become one like all of them. Experiencing their abusive response of blame shifting and gaslighting instead of offering support and encouragement was the kick I needed to finally disconnect from them emotionally. In my grandmother’s case I completely stopped talking to her. There was no point; she refused to respect my boundaries (“Mimi, please understand that I’d love to talk about how your great grandkids are doing but I refuse to rehash how you think bikini whore is a better woman than I am”). She died AND I DONT EVEN FEEL GUILTY. Nope, I feel liberated. Life is too damn short to waste time trying to cultivate relationships with disordered fuckwits who refuse to change.

    • Yes to all of this. Hugs. Always good to read of how a chump rises to mightiness. YES!!!! Get those dysfunctional, lying, blaming, cheater-supporting energy-sucking losers out of your life.

  • My ex kept telling me I needed to go back to work full time. Our son was in a preschool 2 hours a day and he received special services at this school. I would explain, it made no sense to go back to work as the cost of day care would be equivalent to what I would earn full time. Also, having mom care for a child is better then a stag her. My ex said “figure it out. Everyone else does it’s” and would tell me things like “I would be more attracted to you if you were more ambitious” (I am a physical therapist with a doctorate)

    Any way his mom (I know not really Switzerland more like an axis power) once came up to me making the argument that I needed to be more realistic. That we live in an expensive area. That she had to work full time. I remember feeling so spoiled after she told me that….

    Turns out I later found out her husband had left them for a while (he came home and she took him back) which is why she worked full time and my ex had been secretly withdrawing 700 dollars a week plus 100 dollars a day from bad neighborhoods for a minimum of 3 years. (The real reason we had no money)

    Point being those types of friends don’t know shit and have their own issues they are in denial about.

    • Mother in law= Axis of power.
      Ain’t that the truth????
      My ex could of had sex with his mistress in front of me on out coffee table and my MIL would of found a way to justify it.
      Glad I lost her in the divorce.

      • Mine too! I heard she said that the “girlfriend” came along AFTER Dday. No way in hell she would ever tell the truth about what he did (but, I am sure that she has convinced herself that he did nothing wrong.) Hers has always been a life of lies also.

      • Axis of evil absolutely. Why is it never their “babies” fault, even when it is totally their fault! Her 48 year old son cheated on his family with a 29ywar old howorker but MIL blamed me saying I must have done SOMETHING to cause this as her baby just isn’t THAT TYPE of person. She actually asked me: “why weren’t you taking care of him properly?”

        FOO issue demonstration right there.

        I am a mother to a son. He is my world, but if he ever did something like this to his partner there’s no way I would support his behavior.

    • It doesn’t matter if you are a SAHM or a career woman. They will still cheat and blame it on whichever choice you made in that regard (and their flying monkeys will agree with them). You can’t win so best to do what you want then to do what you don’t want only to get cheated on anyway.

      • So true! I’ve also heard the line,”After staying at home all those years women get boring and out of touch and men seek out exciting sexy career women. “

      • No win situation really.

        You can be a stay at home mom and be accused of letting yourself go. Not having ambition. Focusing on the kids too much and not on him. Putting too much pressure on him to earn all the money.

        Then, you can work. Be accused of being too controlling because you might earn more. Told that you were too busy and didn’t make enough time for him. You didn’t support him in the way that he needed.

        The reality is that you can never satisfy a cheater and more than you can satisfy an addict. They crave more and more to meet their never-to-be-satiated need. The more they have, the more they want. They are broken people with really bad relationship skills.

    • My TGNEMIL (thank god now ex mother in law) actually wrote letters to the nanny encouraging her to cheat with my wasband, and not with the other married guys she was also cheating with. I’m still trying to wrap my head around that one.

  • Shut that crap down! My response would be, “thank you for sharing YOUR vulnerabilities. Placing blame onto another gives one a sense of pseudo control in one’s own situation. Have a good day!”

  • I truly believe that people just don’t know what to say and do not seem to understand that saying that they are sorry you are going through this is sufficient. I told one “friend” who mentioned that she was put in the middle that no, I did not put you in the middle of anything, you chose adultery! Another former sister-in-law stated that the whore was “nice”! Huh, the woman that destroyed my family? She said “that was between the two of you”? I had to explain that I was in no way a contributor to that. Maybe most people should just shut up. Ignore what they say and hold your head high.

    • I had a “friend” say to a mutual friend when asked why she still speaks to my ex : “Well he didn’t do anything to *me*!”. They don’t seem to understand that scumbags are not someone worth socializing with. A person who cheats will do anything to benefit themselves at the expense of others.

      • keepitmoving, I remember hearing, “well, he didn’t do anything to me,” people who say this have no loyalty knowing what they did to someone that they consider a friend.
        These people are aware of the betrayal, don’t they realize they’re not trustworthy? or they have the same moral code.
        Maybe it’s the cool factor, cheaters appear to be more exciting and fun compared to the bewildered, suffering Chump. What I do know is they’re not people I want to be friends with.

        • My own brother said that to me. I blasted him and he shut his stupid trap, but I’ll never trust him or spend time with him again. I don’t much like him anyway so it’s no loss.????

          • Chumprella, my brother might be your brothers long lost twin. My brother rarely talked with ex while we were married. After the divorce my brother tells me he and ex have been talking, that they’re friends, what ever happened between you and ex has nothing to do with me. WTF?
            My brother is untrustworthy arrogant jackass. I’ll never spend time with him again.
            No loss here either, I’m actually glad. 🙂

            • He decided to befriend this guy after he totally screwed you over? What an asshole! You’re better off without traitors like that in your life. My brother is a jackass as well; self centred, entitled and a misogynist. He’s one of those “Boo hoo hoo, women are so mean, I can’t get laid” crybabies. They never consider that losing the big gut, improving their grooming and not being immature jerkwads might be useful in attracting women. They believe they are fundamentally entitled to have a woman to use for sex. There’s far too many guys like that. For example, those “Incel” cretins who are all over the internet, whining away and spreading hate because nobody will be a sex slave to them. Wah wah wah. I call men like that Sex Nazis.

      • “So, in short, it has to be all about you. Fuck off, narcissistic trash”.

        I have no patience for fuckwits.

    • “I have learned that Nice is different from Good” – Little Red Ridinghood in ‘Into the Woods”. I’m waiting to use that line next time somebody says “but he/she seems so nice!”

  • Your friends and family flat-out suck. My friends and family during my divorce sucked too. Divorcing him meant divorcing my entire social circle. Ya know what? Anyone who finds the harmful antics of a narcissist as being OK is probably a narcissist too, and you are better off without them. Yes, I dumped family members and friends. I replaced them with truly kind, honorable people. They are my tribe now. You can do it too. You’ll be so happy you did.

  • The Switzerland friends will always find something wrong. My ex wanted to boink his ho-worker. I was a stay at home wife, recently disabled. They said I should have given him a baby, why didn’t I give him the baby I promised? This man couldn’t even help me with the fur kids…I cut off most contact but they still jab. I am bitter and angry, but that was him, not us. We hate your boyfriend, he is good enough for now, but don’t ever marry him. These people were like parents to me but when my ex cut my power and one said, “well, maybe pay your bills on time” I knew they were not on my support team. Still breaks my heart but you need to heal, and they won’t help you do that. Especially since mine are going through my same situation now, and I can see how toxic it would have been to stay together. Mic drop…

    • Holy #$#@ “he cheated on you because you didn’t give him a baby” are these people crazy?

    • WTF? Those people are monsters. They still contact you to try to hurt you? Block them! They aren’t Switzerland, they’re Nazi Germany.

  • One of the hardest lessons that I learned after Dday and the divorce is that many people who I thought were very close friends weren’t !
    The BS question “what did YOU do to drive your Ex to cheat or act badly” is shocking and repulsive.
    One supposed female “friend” looked aghast at me when I answered that question with “if you were raped, what were you wearing that caused that guy to rape you” ? “Your question is similar.”.

    F*** Switzerland friends who were never your friends but you wasted years of your time thinking that they were !!

    • Included with the question “What did you do to drive your ex to cheat,” from one of my Switzerland friends who didn’t want to take sides is “no one knows what goes on behind closed doors.”
      These comments insinuate that the chump has some responsibility or at fault for their spouses cheating.
      The same Switzerland friend in a sympathetic voice tells me Cheater just wants to be with someone he has more in common with…,
      First, there’s not anything that goes on behind closed doors that justifies betrayal. As far as having anything in common? Cheater must have thought we had something in common 20 years ago when we got married. All those years together and now he claims we had nothing in common..
      Another comment she made was well, Cheater says, you two weren’t getting along… really? again that doesn’t justify cheating. There are solutions to not getting along, and cheating isn’t known to save marriages. Do you think his cheating had something to do with our not getting along?

      Needless to say, I no longer speak to these friends.

      • Brit— I’m so sorry those assholes further harmed you. Infuriating!

        I made my inner social circle very small since DDay 4 years ago. I don’t give people the benefit of the doubt or let them in until I know that they aren’t narcissist or cheater apologists or negative advocates. Yet another way that X’s devalue and discard has changed me but it’s ok. I have a few very good people around me and that’s enough. The others? They can fuck right off to fuckityville.

      • Well, they do have something in common. They’re both cheaters. So, hey, you don’t have that in common. Guess it didn’t work out, I’d tell them.

  • What I had experienced from women (co-workers, some friends) when hearing the news of the cheating and divorce was that they would immediately launch into fun/fake diatribes about how their man is just so helpless! He can’t walk a straight line if they weren’t there to guide him LOLOLOL. I was like – wtf? And then I realized that was their way of self soothing.

    You see, it couldn’t happen to them – their husbands were good boys and just not that smart or sneaky or whatever the hell they were trying to get at. It still hurt to hear, though.

    Oh – and my ex MIL immediately launched into a story about a woman she used to work with who was married to a truck driver. See….she would drive for hours to meet him at trunk stops dressed in nothing but a long coat. While taking care of kids and working a full time overnight job as a nurse. Because and I quote my ex MIL here “That’s what it takes to keep a man faithful.” the subtext of course is I didn’t go that extra mile for man.

    With the exception of my ex MIL (who also regaled me with who beautiful – and I mean BEAUTIFUL – and tiny super TINY with the most gorgeous LONG HAIR the OW has, days after dday btw) I think the others are like those awful people at a childs funeral who say things like “it’s gods will”, “Little Suzy is happier now” “I wonder what lesson Jesus is trying to show you”.

    Just self absorbed assholes.

    • You are so well-rid of that horrible MIL. It does seem that there are FOO playbooks and scripts as well as cheater playbooks. Certain family dynamics seem guaranteed to produce a cheater. Denial, blameshifting, managing public image, fawning over physical attributes they themselves don’t have…. It’s so good to refer to all of them as exes.

  • In all fairness….I think some people just say what they need to say to stay out of it. They try to stay sympathetically neutral, although most of the time just suck.
    Here’s an example:
    Switzerland friend: Paintwidow, How are you doing? You okay? I guess if you hire a hot nanny there’s always a chance this could happen.
    Me: well, it’s tough since my ex left me for the nanny and is hammering me in the divorce settlement. Was there a chance this could happen? Cause I kinda thought when I took vows that meant something.
    SF: who knows. Oh well, it’ll be over soon and you can start a brand new life without him. Good luck.

    Now….when we get into some shitty exchange with our ex over school supply shopping or something and we want to hurt we say something like “ I saw Switzerland friend the other day and she thinks you are some butt reaming asshole and a real piece of shit cause you won’t settle the divorce fairly and said my life will be so much better that you are gone.”
    Ask me how I know.???? I’m not proud, but I had a few incidents where it was like I had some divorce induced terets syndrome.
    Just makes it weird for Switzerland next time they run into the ex…..makes me feel awesome for like a second, but opens me up to the phone call from him when he calls to address it. No good can come of this.
    I hold my close friends to a much higher standard ( they better be team Paintwidow), but people that casually knew us I try to just exchange pleasantries with and know they don’t really care and are just trying to politely address that they saw me, acknowledge my divorce, want to Monday morning quarterback that shit, and go.
    I keep my crew small, I don’t go past weather conversation with anybody I know still speaks to my ex.
    You know the truth and anybody that really loves you does too. That’s all you need.
    Let the nanny have him, good riddance.

  • I lost my two best friends (friends for over 30 years) when they started blameshifting. It sucked and it was hard to feel like all the people close to me could betray (ex) and fault me (ex and ex bffs).

    It actually hurt more coming from the bffs. They should have my back and help me through this horrible time in my life just like I was there when they both went through divorces. But no, instead they pushed the dagger deeper into my back.

    Sucked then, but time goes by…I have plenty of good friends that have been by my side and new friends that I might not have met if it wasn’t for the ones who couldn’t truly be a friend.

    Take CL’s advice….dump these people.

    • I had the same experience. My two “best “ friends of over 30 years (who had both had terrible divorces many years before) said things like -“you should have known he would cheat”, “just get over it”, “ it’s your fault”. I haven’t seen either of them now for 7 years. I don’t understand why they wanted to hurt me, but they felt no compassion. I am so thankful for the friends who just let me rant when I was first traumatized. Listening and not judging was a true gift. They are still in my life. I look back and see that I was a chump in not only my choice of husband, but also in my choice of some friends. Think I have learned to discern much better.

    • T2sp, I feel your pain. One of my best friends was super supportive of me and let me rant rave and cry down the phone for months on end: whatever I needed to get myself through. The other has a spouse whom I detest and they do a lot of self-actualisation workshops etc (nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but the focus seems to be either that you need to take full responsibility for everything that happens to you or that you actualise that stuff a la the secret) and her comment ‘if so and so cheated on me, I would’ve looking to see what I had done to cause that’ similtaneously blindsided me and was a dagger in my heart. No empathy, I felt like jumping from the car. I just hope it never happens to her. Mostly because I would be tempted to quote her verbatim, but know in my heart tgat I would try to help. She wouldn’t really deserve it though.

  • Second ring of post-infidelity hell is culling one’s list of friends. Divorce is already lonely enough, so having to rid yourself of people who have been important is very painful. But keeping Switzerland friends is even more painful. They will continue to suck the life out of you with their neutrality and pronouncements indicating they can see your cheater’s point of view.

    The important thing is to fill those friendship slots with new friends. Chumps are a good place to start–they fully understand what you have gone through, are sensitive to other people, and generally have excellent integrity.

    • This. And I will go so far as to say that for me, culling the list of friends was much more painful in the long run. When I discovered the infidelity with my husband, that was one thing. I mean, it was heartbreaking but on the other hand it was a relief because it finally validated so many of my unspoken / un-acknowledged suspicions and explained so much about his previously baffling behaviors. So when someone’s treating you like garbage for years on end and you’re just trying to “stay positive” and deal with it, when you officially find out they’re evil, it’s not the biggest of all surprises. With the friends, it really IS a big surprise because you’re just not expecting people you love to see you at your absolute saddest and weakest, and kick you while you’re down. Luckily the number of people I had to cut off represented like .06% of my total friends, so I’ve missed them a grand total of zero days. Life is so much better with non-fake people!

    • This is the stage that I’m now in, and it is indeed painful. Because my ex and I work in the same department at the university, and because my ex remains closeted, and policy forbids me from telling my story, those friends have never experienced–or may not even know–the person I lived with and the situation he presented me with.
      I’m now drawing some pretty strict boundaries, partly out of principle and partly to protect my own emotional health–I refuse to act in any way that supports his narrative of why we broke up and that enables his closet–and that means I am distancing myself from many of those I have called friends. I won’t willingly live his lie or in his closet any longer.
      I feel as if I have had/am having to undergo three divorces: from my ex (and his emotional betrayals and disordered personality), from my work (because it’s been declared and made policy that his desire to live in the closet trumps my freedom to be honest about my life, and that he therefore matters more than I as an employee), and from my friends (because I either can’t be honest with them about what happened, or they don’t want their assumptions challenged).
      That I am also now entering into semi-retirement is an added wrinkle, one that has me in limbo. I have one more semester, Spring 2020, left to teach, and then I will move away. I want to go home to the west (I’m a westerner by hertitage, birth, and education), but even if I didn’t, I don’t think I have much leeway. My closeted ex will remain in his closet, our friends will operate based on the false front my ex presents to them, and I will never feel comfortable at the university that aided and abetted his abuse of me (maintaining a closeted sexuality is considered abusive to the family/spouse).
      I don’t think I can fully heal until I put all of this life–over 35 years of it–firmly in the past and close the door on it. And until I can, the diet of shit sandwiches occasionally overwhelms me.

      • Have you talked to a lawyer about your options? Have you confirmed that you can’t tell friends/coworkers the truth without legal ramifications against you? I certainly believe in protecting the rights of all genders and orientations but this seems a little over the top.

        • I was certainly threatened with disciplinary action by my department chair if I disclosed anything about my ex’s sexuality, because university policy says he has the right to his “gender expression” without harassment. (Even though he chooses to continue to live as the man he has been his entire life; he just wanted to act out the pornified passive woman–no, make that women, because he claimed he had “multiple women” inside, all with their own names, by the way–at home with me.) I’m not talking malicious outing, either; I’m talking “tell anyone at the university who knows him anything about my private life that would reveal his secret.” The way the policy defines it, my simply telling the truth about my life to a friend who also works at the university constitutes de facto “harassment” of my ex.
          And no, I haven’t talked to an employment lawyer, although I have thought about it. I’m just not sure I have the fight in me. I’m so close to retirement that I’d just like to get out and close the door behind me. As far as I’m concerned, the damage has already been done to my feeling about the university. I don’t trust them; they’ve shown whose side they’re on.

          • My experience with university administration is that they’re exclusively concerned with covering the university’s ass (legally speaking), so this doesn’t surprise me at all.

            I had a drunk student literally break down the door of my house; I called the police; he was arrested on the street outside my house, pled guilty and ultimately paid me restitution. The next semester he enrolled in my class! When I brought this up with the administration, I was told that *I* would have to be very careful because he could sue *me* if he perceived that I was treating him any differently from any other student. I think the court case wasn’t even over when he resolved: I was teaching a student who was being prosecuted for breaking into my house, and *I* was the person put on notice.

          • Adelante,
            I am so sorry for the horrific situation that you find yourself in. I am hoping that you have at least told your closest friends/family and a therapist? And although I see why the University says he has a right to his gender expression without harassment – how does that dovetail with your right to tell the story of your own life? And why would you telling people necessarily mean harassment for him?
            It’s just more of the “it’s not what he did, it’s that you are speaking of it.”
            Does the University care at all about your mental health and what it is doing to you to be muzzled by them? Ugh. I just feel for you. (((Hugs)))

            • Thanks, Kathleen. I have told my family and some close friends, as well as a therapist. It took me a year and a half of living in his closet before I told the first friend. It took me another year before I told anyone in my family.
              It was a long hard slog before I decided I wasn’t required as a good wife and feminist to live with a husband who after 32 of marriage decided he wanted to pretend to be, depending on his mood, a Donna Reed 1950s wife vacuuming the house in a white slip like the one his mother used to wear, or a sexually submissive masochist gasping out “Do with me what you will!” and changing his outfit at least twice in any sex session (all of which came after his revealing to me that he’d been “experimenting” with his gender and sexuality with a former student).
              I was in shock and reeling for quite some time, and when I did recover myself and eventually leave, and begin to feel the burden lift, the experience of being shoved back into his closet by the university was pretty devastating. I’m still working on recovery.

      • Adelante – I’m sorry but after 35 years of your life, I think it may be unrealistic to ever think you can firmly put it in the past and be done with it. If you figure out a way, you will have the golden ticket to my future. .

        I was married the same amt of years. I believe my x was also in the closet but married the OW who I believe is his new beard. Whateva..

        After my divorce, I lost or threw away many couple friends who just didn’t fit anymore. A few others died or moved away, but I decided to stay put in my little western town where I have no family and meeting new friends is optional. PNW is like that.

        So many people come and go in our lives…friends especially. I feel like, as a single person, my little town is an entirely new place. Just like I’d feel in any new town newly single. Either way, you have to make friends in new neighborhoods, find some things in common with others, join groups or not, and–find an entirely new set of friends if you live long enough. Or, you can just hang on the beach and do a Lily Tomlin impression of her smokey green-pot seance.
        I kid.

        Not sure where you want to go in the west, but I believe a move in general may be good for soul . Nothing is forever…as we know. My blessings and good luck.

        • She Chump, Thanks. Nice to know there are others here who understand what this kind of experience is like. I have roots in a lot of western places: Colorado, Utah, California, Alaska (I was born there), and Montana. I’ve looked into Corvallis as a possible retirement home.

      • Adelante, I don’t understand why you have to keep quiet whereas he can go around and say whatever he wants about you. Engaging in gay sex isn’t illigal so why the need to keep quiet? The uni created hostile environment for you, are forcing you into early retirement and harming your future income. Have you talked to employment lawyer about it?

        • As I understand it, it’s the “hostile climate” argument. The idea behind is that one doesn’t need to experience an actual act of discrimination to be harmed.

  • Back when ex worked at narc central he had a boss who blew up his marriage by fucking the nanny. I thought the guy was a real asshole but ex thought he was awesome because he was rich and threw lavish parties. That should have been a red flag right there. Obviously ex didn’t see cheating as a character flaw. Of course he is probably patting himself on the back, “at least I never fucked any of our nannies”. Yeah, thankfully our nannies didn’t have shitty character. It wasn’t until ex became the SAHD that he fucked the other boy scout mom and then left me for the fellow PTA volunteer. Hiring nannies doesn’t make men cheat. Being weak minded selfish shitheads surrounded by willing pussies makes men cheat.

  • Most of us went the RIC route (at least the first time). I’d just say, “Well, I know you feel like you have to give this another shot so that you can honestly say that you have done everything you could to make your marriage work. I understand that. I think you should know though, that there is no shame in leaving someone who lies to you and betrays you. If you ever decide to leave him, know that I support you and you can call me anytime.”

  • The Swiss that floor ME are the ones who knew about the affair(s) before did. Why cheater felt the need to burden them with the sordid details of his double-life is beyond me. At any rate, not my skein. Only ONE person he burdened with his secret told him, “That is wrong, what you are doing, and you need to see a therapist”. That man was/is a mentor, and is one of the good ones, as far as I’m concerned. The rest simply decided it wasn’t their place to judge, and continued the charade with the unknowing chump that was me.
    I have decided I will not be one of those people, and if anybody ever decides to burden me with the details of their sneaking around on their spouse, I will tell them they have two weeks to come clean with their spouse before I tell them. Perhaps I am being too kind. Yes, it gives them two weeks to mount a smear campaign on me. I don’t care. I will let the spouse know I am there for them, and the cheater will be cut from my personal circle of friends. I will certainly direct the spouse to CL and CN.
    I have a question, though:
    What if the spouse really wants to do the whole RIC thing? I suppose I should be supportive?

    • I relate to this so much. My rule, having been through this crap, is that if I find out something that impacts a person’s daily life, and the person is still in whatever the relationship is and is actively (unknowingly) financing or supporting the cheater in some way or in danger of STDs, etc., I will tell (or make sure a friend close to them tells, if I’m not close). If I find out something unsavory about a person’s former partner, and they’re no longer together / no longer in danger from that person, there’s no need for me to add to the trash heap. I can probably trust that they know how terrible their ex was.

      If someone is all full of unicorn hope and tells me they want to do the RIC thing, I wish them the best from the bottom of my heart, while noting that unfortunately, the success rates for that are very very very low, so if they do want to know about other options, check out CL (and I send the link to the web site). I also ask them to ask themselves, “If this had happened to my best friend, would I want her to stay in the relationship?” That usually speaks for itself, because most of us want the goshdarn full-on princess treatment best for our best friend and we’re ready to go scorched earth on anybody who thinks otherwise. So we should treat ourselves with at least that much dignity too, right?

      • We should but we often don’t. It is so easy to recognize every one else’s cheater described here as a total loser POS with no redeeming qualities and thank God you are rid of him/her and may Karma run them over and over many times. When I was going through it, however, I wanted to believe that he was just a poor confused soul who made a mistake and would eventually come to his senses even when I had others telling me I shouldn’t want him back because he was being a jerk. Even now I still struggle with “trust that he sucks” when it comes to my ex. I am at least over wishing for his return because I know he doesn’t love me as he should, but I haven’t really internalized that he sucks to the point where I can be relieved he is gone. I am happier than I was at the end of our marriage. Maybe he really did intend to do me a favor by leaving . No he didn’t have a right to go looking for my replacement first but was that the only thing he did wrong? Is it his fault he doesn’t love me? He was fair in our settlement. He still sees his kids. He didn’t screw me financially (well, other than those flowers etc. for Schmoopie 🙁 ) and he didn’t go around telling everybody what a horrible person I am. I really have to think back to the way he was treating me during his affairs when nothing I did was ever good enough and he refused to notice or acknowledge the positives I brought to his life and the aftermath of DDay when he said some pretty horrible things to me and refused to acknowledge that anything good ever came out of our marriage but the kids. That makes it easier to believe that he might suck. He certainly did not show much concern for my feelings when he cheated or when confronted with my raw pain after he got caught. He treats me better now but only because I no longer try to make him acknowledge and take responsibility for his poor behavior (beyond child support which he happily pays because it makes him look responsible).

        • make a list of all the shitty things he said and did during discard and affair and read it when you feel sympathy. He was cowardly and cruel. Don’t reason it away and don’t put the blame back on you.

          • Thanks. Not accepting the blame myself and trusting that I don’t suck was actually a lot easier for me than trusting that he does suck. Honestly, as long as we believe in ourselves does it even matter whether or not our ex’s sucked as long as they are no longer harassing us? (different story if they are hovering or still in a position to manipulate or hurt you in other ways)

          • Flower ETC. (plural) for Schmoopie, affair(s) – plural – what else do you want to know to realise HE DOES SUCK???

        • Sure, he might suck less than some of the worst, most horribly abusive cheaters, but why does that matter? My cheater actually accepts all the blame, is in therapy and trying to be a better person. It matters not a whit to me in terms of forgiveness or trust. I won’t forgive him and I’ll never trust him. The level of suckage doesn’t mitigate the wrong your cheater did. It is his fault that lied and told you he loved you when he clearly did not. It is his fault he married somebody he had no real intention of being faithful to. It’s 100% his fault.

    • I think you should not be supportive of that. It isn’t in their best interest and you are a friend. That is, unless you have reason to believe the cheater is a unicorn who can be reformed. Highly unlikely to say the least, but if so, it’s individual therapy the cheater needs and the chump doesn’t have to do shit. No MC, no seminars, no books. It’s all on the cheater.
      It would be a kindness to direct them to CL’s posts on the RIC con game.

  • There were a lot of people that supported me and that feels really good. Like when I told my story to someone she just assumed he was the POS and I take that as a compliment cause it means she knows me and just automatically thinks, there’s something wrong with him. I remember talking with my family and telling them all the stuff I learned on the reconciliation web sites – how I was at fault and had to make 180s and the ultimate goal was to save a marriage . Thats when they thought I was crazy.

    Actually a lot of what I was reading on the reconciliation sites were similar to the “Switzerland” friends advice.

    What does hurt is hearing things like, “he has a long term girlfriend now? Well maybe they are simply more compatible. You guys just weren’t compatible” … maybe we would have gotten along better and had more time for compatibility if he wasn’t leading a double life? (I never got proof of actual affair…just the discard meant, suspicious behavior, and secret money withdrawal most likely indicative of drugs. But I am drawn to CL and stories of cheating for some reason)

    • J.

      I am just now starting to feel more comfortable with the notion that maybe my STBXH and the OW are more compatible. It’s taken my almost 14 months, post separation, to start reaching that milestone because my mindset has been slowly shifting.

      I have been letting go of the dream of my marriage and cutting the ties of my investment in that relationship, and the result has been feeling more comfortable with the notion that, although I might have once had more in common with my STBXH, I just don’t have much in common with him anymore. Absolutely, the OW is a far better partner for him than I am. That doesn’t bother me so much anymore. She lacks a moral compass, like him. She is a cheater herself in her own previous marriage, like him. She is low-value, like him. She is emotionally immature, like him. She is a broken person, like him.

      You know what’s important to me now, more than ever? That I am none of the things that they are. I am moral, committed, high-value, mature and whole (or getting more whole everyday). So, by those standards, I have nothing in common with him or her. Thank God!

      • Yeah, baby! That’s the right way to look at it. I wish these assholes would pair up to begin with and leave the rest of us alone, but they don’t. They target decent people to use us for the good things we have to offer, then run off to their own kind when they don’t feel they need us anymore. But they often circle back when they crash and burn with the new model.
        Before dday my cheater had already realized (it took him five years, the moron) that he had no future with the slut who was using him because she gets off on cucking her husband, so he tried to get me to stay. Not happening. She also cucked him more than once and he still kept seeing her. What a loser. After dday he confessed that he has a cuck fetish. Gross! He actually told me he wouldn’t have cheated if I would have had sex with other guys and told him about it during sex so he could get his rocks off. As if I’d degrade myself like that for his perverted pleasure. Entitled little bitch. Happily, my life is now a pervert free zone.

  • What does it say about me when I read the following and immediately felt a rush of anticipation?:

    “Okay, let’s UBT those sentences and be much bitchier this time.”

    Some days, it’s just so exciting to enjoy CL with my morning coffee. Thanks Tracy.

  • Those friends aren’t Switzerland; they’re the Axis Powers!

    OP, please dump these ill-meaning family and friends, and surround yourself with people who actually care.

  • There are 2 words for these intensive jerks, “Fuck off” I guarantee they won’t bother you again!

  • A thing that is not addressed on many RIC sites is the gang up bullying that goes on of a new chump. – IF the chump does not hop through the assigned tasks, advice or rules, they start calling them on it within a few DAYS. I saw emotionally battered people get a second dose of critique for not buying a book, or following their directions weekly.

    That’s what made me shun them forever. Brand new emotionally destroyed poster, gets rifled with a list of tasks to do… if they do not complete the list they are tag teamed by a few posters who chastise them for not following their directions fast enough.

    When I dared post that maybe they should NOT do this, I was universally criticized, by said same “pile on-ers”, moderators were sicked on me, and my comments were (a few times) removed.

    I actually emailed back and forth with the said owner of the site about this very issue. He understood my concerns, but did nothing, that I could see, to calm the “dogs of war” RIC posters who manipulated the newbies that his site facilitated.

    • Yes yes yes. It’s a weird sadomasochistic dynamic. I do post on a site but I always criticized the cheater or walkaway. Not the dumped.

      • Totally sick dynamic because the newly chumped are extremely vulnerable anyway.
        Your empathetic inclination is to try to fix what’s wrong.

        It is sad and wrong to saddle chumps with blame for their situation.

        In my situation I tapped danced to the pick me tune for years – not knowing EXACTLY why. I was coursed into thinking I could “fix” the broken marriage by polishing up MY performance. For years.

        It was devastating to realize I had absolutely no control over a covert narc cheater. Had I been advised of that first, I may have had a quicker recovery.

    • I do believe those sites have low tolerance for not towing the line because the big buy-in is that you can control another person by following certain behaviour so get to it and don’t spook our fragile, rigid mindset that says if you do this they will stay faithful. Basically you are twisting yourself into a pretzel that, even if you’re not truly loved you make yourself so convenient to the cheater tgat they stay because why leave when you’ve got a partner that is so agreeable that they’ll make sure everything is the way you like it, just do you don’t leave.

      • My counsellor recently asked me what efforts I had made during my marriage to address the issues that I recognized existed before he ever starting cheating. I relayed how often over the span of a couple of years before his cheating behaviour began that I suggested marriage counselling (actually begged for it), invited him to attend a marriage-builder course at our church, encouraged him to talk to our priest, read articles about regular date-nights, increasing intimacy, etc and relaying those strategies to him.

        Then, she asked me what efforts he initiated in an overt manner to address the issues in our marriage. I racked my brain for any initiative he had ever taken. All I could come up with was him telling me that making him talk about our issues would make everything worse, so his suggestion was to stick my head in the sand.

        She went on to point out that the disparity in our approach to resolving issues between him and me spoke for itself when it came to someone’s power to save a marriage on their own.

        I wish that I had made that connection before I had invested a year in RIC + about $1000 in on-line materials and resources.

        If I had the power to save my marriage alone, he wouldn’t have cheated in the first place. I had been trying to save it for years.

        • I understand coaching, encouraging and sympathizing. When did bullying become the order of the day?
          Every emotionally healthy person knows that you can only control your own decisions and actions. To put any other mantra out there (approved by a doctor in some instances) is a crime.

      • Those sites exist to hawk scams for “rebuilding” marriages; books, seminars, podcasts and counselling. You don’t rebuild on a rotten foundation. It’s a sleazy con game preying on vulnerable, hurting people, and the posters are so deep in denial they don’t know their asses from their elbows. Those sites piss me off so much that I have decided to steer clear lest I be tempted to blast them and ignite pointless flame wars with the hapless con victims. I’d gladly go after the con artist site owners, but the posters have just been duped. I feel sorry for them.

  • When we get betrayed by an intimate partner, we do understand the need to fix our pickers. But our pickers also pick out friends and which relatives to trust. And a defective picker may be just as bad at recognizing trustworthy friends as trustworthy intimate partners. It’s not unlike how recovering alcoholics have to recognize their “friends” are often drinking companions, not actual friends. One way we get a big new life is to make sure our friends are really friends, the “got your back” kind. It sucks, for sure, to face how many horrible people we have in our circle, but there may even be really good old friends back there who didn’t fit with the enablers and Switzerland folks. I truly miss a person who was often a good and loyal friend but whose “get over it” comment 6 weeks after D-Day just crossed the line with me. I still see her occasionally but she knows nothing about my life in the past 5 years. Her loss.

  • For me, it is not that I am internalizing their remarks but that I do not want to come across as bitter or angry.

    Best bet is to put distance between you and the Switzerland friends and family. They are NOT there to support you and right now you need to surround yourself with people who will.

    Part of fixing your picker is to practice on all relationships, not just romantic ones.

  • I think placing the blame elsewhere and not on the actual culprit is pervasive in our society. Chumps are blamed for one thing or another when their spouse cheats. Meaning somehow the chump dropped the ball by paying too much attention to the kids, working outside the home and having a career, not working outside the home and not having a career, hiring a babysitter that is not old and ugly, not looking like someone that could pose on SI after 3 kids, etc.

  • I am reading a very pleasant book written by a man, on a conversation between two men. Just in case we ever doubt they don’t know what they are doing:

    [hero barged in on married man f ing his co-worker, subsequent conversation]:

    “Me and Maxine – well I don’t know what she’s said to you, but it’s just about the sex, really. And I have to say, it is pretty amazing sex.”

    “Yeah, so she said.””

    “Did she?” said Josh, momentarily puffing up, then remembering he was meant to be ashamed, and deflating again. “I mean, it’s hardly surprising, is it? I have her lying starkers across my lap on stage every night = what am I meant to do? I’m only flesh and blood. It doesn’t mean I love Nora any less.”

    “Except – it sort of does, doesn’t it?|”

    Josh considered this for a moment; sipped his beer. “Yeah, well, maybe a little bit less, but I do still love her. I really love Nora. Really I do. And I would NEVER do ANYTHING to hurt her, it’s just -”

    The Understudy – David Nicholls, Hodder & Staughton, 2006

  • Nannies….what is up with them? They have some sort of hypergamous home wrecker gene. Yes, the cheating spouse sucks….but nannies always seem to be on the prowl.

  • Btw, I rank nanny fuckers right down there with family fuckers and best friend fuckers and Jesus freak fuckers as the low of the low.

    • True, in the phylogenetic scale of cheaters, Family fuckers are the worst; Nanny- and Best friend-fuckers just above them.

  • I know of at least one nanny fucker situation: husband and wife build an amazing business, vivacious beautiful wife works a second job in sales to support the efforts. Huband is one of those older-than-he-looks arrogant, brooding types. They have infertility so adopt 3 babies over the years. They hire a nanny, older (40?) but a floozy and dumb as a rock. Her name is actually that of the famous Mattel doll with the big boobs. Soon enough wife gets the ILYBINILWU spiel from ugly dolt H. He leaves…. turn out he’s the “Ken” to the nanny-homewrecker who gets fake E’s like her namesake and dies her hair an unnaturally dark brunette. In the divorce H schemes successfully to undervalue the company by 10x. Chump wife caves… he walks away with fake boob nanny floozy with $50M. Vegas wedding within days of divorce. Grotesque materialistic consumption ensues: all of the stupid cars, motorcycles, designer crap, blah blah stereotypical blah. Kids go off the rails— drugs, suicide attempts, psych wards, failed rehabs. Fucking tragedy. Cheater and boobs are a joke and everyone in the community loathes them. They move elsewhere. He looks as douchey as ever. She’s a disgusting vampire who now looks like Elvira with triple E’s.

    FF 5 years and Chump reacquaintes with another soccer parent, newly divorced chumpman (cheating Xwife). They become friends, fall in love, have a fabulous wedding and seem happy.

  • The killer comment for me from my now ex BFF was “where did he find the time?” It was such a judgement on me. That was the final straw. Which came shortly after her Switzerland declaration.

    FWIW He found the time when he was:

    At work and telling his boss/dad he was main caregiver so picking up kids from school every day leaving work at 2pm.

    (He was actually having sex and doing lines of coke in my bed with his OW before SHE picked up her son from school 200 metres away from our house)

    If you’re gonna lie make sure it’s got a half truth in it for credibility eh!

    He found the time when he was running around after YOU (allegedly) buying and selling coke and weed to YOU and others which you were actually only purchasing a quarter of the times he said you were purchasing.

    (He was actually just going to his OWs house in the same suburb as his dealer. If you’re gonna lie make sure it’s got some half truth in it for credibility eh!)

    (And yeah I found all those “bill payment” deposits from YOU BFF into MY FAMILY CASH ACCOUNT FOR YOUR DRUG SUPPLY. Did you really think I was ok with that? Also a final straw).

    He found the time going to bands, movies, boys weekends, hell even shopping for records! All stuff I would be loathe to prevent anyone from doing BFF.

    (It was a record receipt from months prior with OWs name on it that gave me the evidence he’d been cheating and lying to me about for the last 3 years, since she started “liking” very old photos of him for had posted on Facebook and I confronted him about it, esp since he’d told me he thought she was “hot” when we first met her a few months prior).

    Sure I could have listened to my intuition sooner. Actually I DID but gaslighting and outright denial from A MAN YOU TRUST AND LOVE tends to dilute those evil thoughts and replace them with hopium, ya know, cos kids and house and housing bubble that means I’ll be homeless with my kids if I leave.

    Honestly the judgement. She’s still Switzerland. The one great thing this BFF did for me was make me realise my Swiss friends, my entire IRL social network of married me were siding with the enemy, so off my friend list they were taken.

    I did it slowly, to weed out which ones were reporting back to him on MY Facebook activity (he was blocked for a reason Peter/Michelle!).

    It was quite a good strategy. Was trying to take control of my life and MY “FRIENDS” were interfering by playing flying monkey, or Switzerland. Hard to tell the difference. Glad they are gone along with years of triangulation and gaslighting.

  • One particular thing that makes me bristle is the Monday Night Quarterbacker. I have a friend that now claims that they in addition to another friend of mine, knew my husband was running around a few years before I did, and would discuss this amongst the two of them. Bullshit. There is nothing more annoying to me than someone assuming they know more about my marriage or former marriage I should say, then I did. Clearly they were privy to all of our private moments and conversations? Clearly they were there for the entire history of our relationship? That is a big No, and No. I don’t get comments like these and basically just makes me back away slowly from that person. Annoying.

  • I was a nanny in my early 20s for a wealthy family. It never crossed my mind to have an affair. I have no idea if it crossed his…I would have been oblivious. Not even a blip on my radar.
    A man who would cheat with the nanny is gross .

    • Former au pair here (decades ago).

      The joke in Paris was the father (pere) was often the one to choose the au pair/pere for the family, get it ? Disgusting.

      The au pairs (female and some male) had chances to meet thanks to the agency who hired us,which the families used for years. The agency’s loyalty was to the family (repeat customers), not so much to the young, foreign adults. We swapped stories about the families peccadilloes as well as some freaky behavior. One young woman said the parents kept a kitchen knife and handcuffs under their bed !

      One of my friends (a manny) took the train from the posh suburbs and marched into the agency one day and demanded a new family. He had tired of the mother walking around the house wearing nothing but her bra, panties, garter belt and stockings. Bitch be crazy ! Another friend was home alone with the father. She walked down the hall and he was lying naked and spreadeagled with the door wide open to the master bedroom. She stormed off and slammed her door shut !

      Such entitlement with classist undertones

      • Yuck I’m so sorry. Au pairs are indeed subject to exploitation. I thought I was doing a good thing paying her far more than the required wage (which started from minimum wage and then SUBTRACTED an estimated cost of room and board), paid for her to attend college and sponsored her for a student visa when her au pair stint was up. We weren’t particularly rich but desperate for help with two injured/disabled parents. But that didn’t stop her from cheating with my husband, as well as my 80 yr old neighbor with a disabled wife, my married friend with children, and a failed attempt to cheat with my FATHER! . Then I learned about the yuckiness of my husband and his mother who supported him unconditionally in everything including this. I wrote this post several years ago. I’m happy to say there are far fewer screwed up people in my life today and I may even have meh in sight. I’m just sad for my kids who have to live through this. And yes I have to pay them child support

  • Holy shit you need some new friends. They blameshift like its 1959. . .

    I’m really sorry you’re going through that. I had the opposite experience. I lost a marriage but gained some of the best friends a person could ask for. If my divorce taught me anything, it was the value of friendship and how to be a good friend.

    Sure, some friends went by the wayside during that time. I assume this probably because it is uncomfortable being around someone going through so much pain (and mess). It probably made them confront the reality that you could lose everything suddenly. Nobody likes to think about that. There was a family member or two who judged me. But they never had the gall to say it to my face.

    Seriously. Get some new friends. These people are not friends.

  • They’re being emotionally abusive. Tell them off and cease contact. The ones who care will apologize and change their behavior. The ones who don’t are assholes you’re better off without.
    I did this with my family after they guilt-tripped me to try to get me to stay with the cheater. Not only did I get apologies, but my mother gave me money to assist me in getting away from the cheater.
    Fuck anybody who tries to roll their wheels over you, my friend. Give them a blast, cut them off, and use that same strength against the cheating bastard.

  • As someone who has employed a few nannies over the last 3yrs as a single father I can say that this guy is disgusting. Firstly with an employee you are breaking trust enormously and as a primary carer for your kids you are modelling abhorent behaviour. Seriously tell these Switz friends to fuck-off and take a good look at themselves for condoning this crap in our society.

  • Blameshifting is one of the first human tactics in dealing with sin.
    God asked Adam, Adam blames Eve, Eve blames the Snake, and the Snake blamed God

  • Being a friend is a fine art.
    If the emotional labor is consistently unequal in any relationship, there’s something in the background to address. No shame or blame, it’s a self-observation that has proved helpful to check the chumpiness quotient.

  • Our society has become so narcissistic that unless it has happened to one of them, they either lack the depth to empathize or just really don’t care.

    Yes, people say stupid shit. I am an x Minister’s wife. I got bombarded with “ helpful advice “ and blame. He was a golden child with all the God points – so I must be faulted.

    I cut hundreds of people from my life. It’s so much more peaceful.

    And down the road you will be thankful that the nanny took this giant man child off your hands.
    No take backs !!!

  • Husband is gone as well as some friends. They all have the same moral code. Good riddance! My friend of 40 years who I pointed out did a crappy thing then played victim… she said I am getting her mixed up with my ex and she is not my ex!! Ummmm – she left her husband and child to move in with some piece from work and have a baby – just like my ex did! I hated that I forgave her years ago for sleeping with my ex boyfriend. That is her character. And she tries to make me out to be the bad person. I don’t care. Now that the shock and hurt is gone – I’m grateful to be free. Of all the fakers.

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