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Have a Chat with Schmoopie? Just Don’t.

The Universal Bullshit Translator has choked down Lori Gottlieb’s “Dear Therapist” dreck before. But like an undigested glob of upchuck, she’s back. Splat. With advice so awful, I think she’s punking us.

I submit to you: “Dear Therapist: My Girlfriend Had an Affair With My Co-worker — I’ve forgiven her, but I can’t forgive him.”

A man, Chris, writes in to say his girlfriend fucked his co-worker. HIs problem? (If you answered: “His cheating girlfriend!” you answered wrong.)

We are in the same (large) department, and I still see him often in the common areas. I haven’t talked to him since this happened, and I have no desire to communicate with him. In fact, just seeing him has a visceral effect on me. My breathing increases; my heart races. I have a strong urge to punch and break things to get this “fight response” out of my system. The passage of time hasn’t lessened this feeling, and it completely disrupts me, sometimes souring my mood for the day. I don’t want him to have this effect on me or to have my day disrupted like this.

Chris, people have left jobs for less. Mold in the AC vents. The wrong swivel chair. Dude, there are OTHER jobs and other girlfriends. Go find them.

Oh, sorry, that was a lucid interjection of common sense.

No, the correct answer was…

You might find a moment to take your co-worker aside and say something like, “It’s been really awkward for me to see you at work after what happened between you and my girlfriend, and for both of us to pretend it didn’t happen. I wonder if you’ve felt just as awkward and wanted to say something to me. I’m not interested in details or anything like that—I believe everything my girlfriend has told me and we’re doing much better now. All I want to say is that your part in what happened hurt me deeply, and I thought you should know.” Then stop talking and let him fill in that space however he chooses—even if you have to wait through an excruciatingly long pause.

Just clear the air! Have the chat! I’m sure the man who fucked your girlfriend cares about your pain. Your relationship is so much better now? He was on pins and needles waiting for that status update. Now excuse him while he goes and sobs in a corner with regret.

It doesn’t matter what he says—all that matters is that you did something helpful for yourself

He may not sign your yearbook — all that matters is that you hit your head with a shovel.

Gottlieb “can’t emphasize enough the value of speaking the unspeakable.”

Good. Then let me just say, Gottlieb, your advice sucks donkey ass.

1.) You let Chris go on believing he made his girlfriend cheat.

I now fully acknowledge the part we both played, and after a period of acute anger, I came to the conclusion that I still love my girlfriend, and that I was as angry at the infidelity as at the fact that we had let the relationship get as low as it did.”

Chris isn’t responsible for how his girlfriend responded to relationship unhappiness.  Women who love you don’t weaponize your co-workers.

2.) You embrace this whole forgiveness reconciliation idiocy and never once challenge if a “traumatic” relationship is a relationship worth keeping.

3.) You’re utterly two-faced about “trauma.” If you really believed that infidelity gives chumps PTSD and the experience is traumatic (yes to both), then it doesn’t follow that you’d encourage reconciliation or minimize it all as “awkward.”

Awkward is we both wore the same sweater. Awkward is telling a joke that fell flat. Awkward is your fly is unzipped.

So which is it Gottlieb? Traumatic or awkward? If you really thought betrayal was traumatic why would you tell someone to STAY with the person who traumatized them? Because you had a CONVERSATION about it?

“Unacknowledged trauma is like a double dose of trauma; trauma needs air, and if you can take the initiative to give it some, you’ll breathe more easily too.”

Trauma needs for the victim to get the fuck away from what is traumatizing them and not go back for second and third helpings of shit sandwiches.

I get the whole Take Away His Power! Say Boo to the Ghost! Cross That Bridge And Cure Your Phobia! school of Harrumph You Don’t Scare Me.

You’re dressing it up like that — and that’s not what this advice is. This advice is meet abuse with more vulnerability. And that advice is bullshit.

Chris — share your hurt feelings with people who are SAFE and who care. NOT with people who have already demonstrably devalued you. You know what says, “You’re beneath contempt”? No contact. You know what the proper response is to a workplace that makes you stress sick? JOB HUNTING.

You know what the proper response is to a girlfriend who fucks your co-worker?


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  • The last time I tried to talked to The Bonus Imposter resulted in bogus trespassing and assault charges. She wasn’t interested in “clearing the air.” She was interested in setting me up for a custody fight with my ex husband.

    No contact. Get another job and save yourself from testing your mettle to keep yourself from pounding that asshole into the ground like a tent peg.

    • ????????????
      Say it like it is Kintsugi!

      YOU are a Chump after my own heart. When you make a mistake, you correct it. Oh boy, do you ever correct it!
      YOU are so Mighty!

    • Sorry CL

      I could not finish this because my personal UBT spewed out venomous rage until it blew a gasket.

      This is part of my PTSD (and yes, I’m using that term clinically.)

      GOODBYE Gottlieb, you are a destructive force in the universe.

    • what was her motivation? just wondering what i haven’t thought of.

  • Keeping himself in this triangle probably gives AP and girlfriend some sort of fucked up kibbles.
    Why give them more ???

    It’s his gut talking to him. It’s screaming danger danger! Run away. Not towards…

    Now, speaking of danger – why oh why is she still a girlfriend ? I know – I smoked the Hopium pipe for years. He’s not married so technically he can solve all his problems by breaking up with the tramp.

    * auto correct wants me to call her a trampoline and I think that’s fair.

    • ????????

      Trampoline…. that’s awesome. Another name to add to Wife Appliance, Mrs. Milquetoast, The Bonus Imposter, Fiona, The Won, and so many others….

      • Hmm, I’m still quite partial to “Married Howorker”, my super special moniker for my disgusting replacement.

      • I use Hamburger Whore for the neighborhood skank who fucked my husband behind my back for 10 years because she would literally get a hamburger in payment for having sex with the cheater. Yes, honey, he’s a cheapskate. And also, yes honey you’re a cheap whore.

        • Friday Challenge !!! Just how little skanks will take for twu luv with cheaters!! The OW and cheaterpants XH would slink off to the Econo- Lodge for their fuck fests! Bwahahahaha Real high class.

          • My Ex’s AP didn’t tequire a hotel, or even a bed. She’d drive to meet him in elementary school parking lots and screw him in the back of her 4 Runner, (couldn’t fit in the back of his salvage title BMW) but only after moving her childrens booster seats out of the way.
            2 years post divorce they’re still together as hiding APs because ex doesn’t want our kids to know he’s still with the co-homewrecker, so he lives in our 6000 sq ft house without letting married (until i caught them) howorker leave anything in the house. Huge, double-sided walk in closet? Empty on one side. Double vanitues? Empty on one side…Instead he puts our 15yo daughter to bed and “sneaks” out to drive over to howorker house with her kids there, screws, then tries to sneak back. Daughter hears car leave and goes and locks all the doors so he’s locked out all night, till she wakes up from at 11 from a weekend sleep in and finds him in the backyard, claiming he’s bird watching.

            • Poor girl. That must be so sad for her to see Dad sneaking off. What a complete Ass.

            • The only way it’s still fun for him is to still sneak around only you aren’t the one he’s hiding it from, it’s your daughter. What a complete loser he is. As far as schmoopie? I’m sure she was eyeing that 6000 sq ft house as hers. I guess she’s waiting for your daughter to graduate high school and then thinks she’ll be accepted. Bwa ha ha ha! Your ex keeps her hidden like the ho she is. Sounds like DD15 knows exactly what he’s up to and has enjoyed locking him out of the house. That does sound fun!!

        • He is DJ Mc Smarmy and she is Mc Slimy. Both are Mc Happy meals. Low in substance, cheap, easily found everywhere, predictable, leave you wanting, bland & plain, make kids fat and appeal to their base wants… I could go on.

  • ”He may not sign your yearbook — all that matters is that you hit your head with a shovel“
    I agree completely with the above: no contact and job hunting is the answer.
    I bet that if the situation was that you were forced to see every day someone who raped you the therapist advice would have been different. Certainly not go there and talk to the rapist si he/she can feel sorry for what he/she did!
    They won’t feel sorry. All you would do is feed their narcissism and make them feel like they still have power over you and they can manipulate them. You basically offer them a way out to nourish the image they have of themselves like the good person, allow them
    To gaslight you again and you’ll end up feeling like you are the one who did something wrong!

    • Ms. Gottlieb always has stupid answers. She does more harm than good. What a joke that she’s a “therapist”. I sure hope she doesn’t have a clientele. She hurts people with her ignorance. She needs to get another job.
      I cannot stand her bullshit!

  • HA HA HA HA – the Yellow Bellied Bullshitter cartoon. I can repeat my favourite “bird” variety – the Double Breasted Mattress Thrasher.

    • If they really felt badly… they wouldn’t have boffed the girlfriend in the first place… so what the fuck is the point? ‘Here, look at me, I’m vulnerable and a grown up who owns his feelings’ If that had any place in this persons world he would have encouraged girlfriend to end things with this dude and said ‘hey, I like your ex, I’m asking her out.’ But he didn’t. He’s a douche. Why put yourself in the path of more destruction.

    • “double-breasted mattress thrasher” – OMG, that made my fiance and I lol!!! HARD! Good one Sugarglider!

  • Taking to the person the cheated with your spouse. Is like petting a snake. They sure do not give a rats behind about your feelings. Or they would not have cheated with your spouse. I wanted to contact my cousin. But, I knew it would be a waste of time. She did not give me one thought when she screwed my husband. Contacting her would only make me the villian and her the victim.

    Through another cousin I was told that Skankella blamed me for her screwing my ex. She told her that I was a nutjob that verbally and financially abused my ex. She told her that I deserved being cheated on. Because my ex was such a great guy. She would have married him if I would not have wanted to work on the marriage and she was dumped. I only wanted to work on the marriage because I wanted his money. The funny part was that I earned a lot more money than he did. I am so glad I never contacted her and told her what a POS she was. I would have played right into her hands.

  • I tried to post, but my phone turned itself off, I think in a triangular “relationship” it takes 3 people to work, the chump doesn’t know, or is told its just a friend. when the chump ends the relationship, the triangle doesn’t work. Simply its probably a power play. The cheater thinking they great, chump not wise to cheaters antics, ow seeing what they want to see. Thinking there better.
    Ow are in denial at the chumps defence.
    My ex’s ow swore, for years at me, always tried to make me look bad, and ex actually said “don’t expect me to help you”. She actually hates me or is projecting.

    • The nurse with no morals actually contacted me and wanted to talk. I told her if she showed up I would shoot her off my front porch without hesitation. She is stupid but not suicidal so she never showed up…missed my opportunity there..

  • Maybe it’s just me but if i ever bumped into the AP the last thing i’d do is have a chat !!

  • I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — if your anger at a person who did not make you an promises is stronger than your anger at a person who did make you promises and broke them, you are not seeing things clearly.

    Schmoopies are assholes, but there is always another schmoopie around the corner. The cheater is 100% responsible for betraying the chump.

    If all your vitriol is pointed toward a schmoopie, you’re pouring a lot of energy down the drain. If schmoopie cared about your pain, schmoopie would not be a schmoopie.

    Cutting a schmoopie out of your life is like treating acne. Once one pimple is gone, another just shows up in another place. Cutting a cheater out of your life solves the schmoopie problem. No cheater, no cheating.

    Cheaters. Waste of space.

    • If schmoopie is in your life for some other reason, like as a family member, then yes, you also have a schmoopie-specific problem, but the solution is the same. People who betray you don’t deserve to be in your life. Cut ’em off. YOLO.

      (also, above, that “an promises” should say “any promises”.)

      • “People who betray you don’t deserve to be in your life. Cut ’em off.”

        This is 100% right on! They don’t have to be a cheating spouse to be worthy of complete excommunication.

    • Exactly! Well said! Schmoopies are like pimples lol! In my case, the ow tried to make herself central but I only see her as a stain and I’m glad I never talked to her.

      • Yes, it’s true. If I had known this woman as a friend or relative, I’d probably feel different, but this woman is a nobody to me. It makes it easier to see her as a pustulent pimple.

    • Yes, on all counts Amiisfree! Blaming the schmoopie instead of the cheater is just bathing in a giant vat of spackle.

    • It took me one month to be angry at Shmoopie. Dancer, in couple with a wife with cancer, “listened” to my wife (also invited her to Bali but really the important part is that he listened to her and asked her the right questions and didn’t want to be a home-wreckher). I was so angry that he seduced my wife, a woman in couple, mother of four, I actually wrote him to time. The first time to tell him to stop, he actually answered me he was sorry for the pain he caused and he “would stop as soon as my wife would like to”. The second time I wrote to tell hi mwhat I thought of him. He did not answer.

      And then three months later I finally understood, my wife wasn’t a victim here. SHE was in couple, with me, mother of four, and SHE decided to seduce a man in couple with a woman in cancer. Man, I lack the words here. One thing I know: the day I understood that I was angry as I’ve never been in my life, as if every one and each cell of my body was made of anger. And the day after I cried all day long. And the day after that as well (I manage to hold it for a few hours in the morning, I had a f****g audit…). And I think it’s at that moment that I began to leave her in my head (although she left me in the first place).

    • Lots of married men—and a few married women—have hit me up, but I have never been a schmoopie.

      AP’s are not entirely interchangeable. Not everyone is willing to be one.

      Good people are never willing to play that role.

      So, I think some anger at the schmoopie is very reasonable. Cheating is a team sport, and the AP is half of that team.

      Highly unlikely that the AP is a total innocent who accidentally stumbled into the situation all unawares.

      In my case, all of the AP’s understood exactly what was up: marriage, kids, even pregnancy. They chose what they chose with eyes wide open, and a share of the culpability is theirs. Some were married with children of their own.

      Zero interest in communicating with any of them. I know everything I need to know about them. Not even sure I would recognize the current one if I tripped over her.

      It took more than a few people to harm all of the families touched by this. I sometimes wonder what the actual body count might be.

      In any case, the cheater might have captained team cheater, but everyone who joined that team willingly—including the flying monkeys—shares some measure of responsibility for the damage done.

      • ^^this^^

        Everyone who participated in the Slaughter of the Innocents deserves opprobrium. That said, Amiisfree is correct that BF letter writer should be madder at his GF than AP.

      • This is why I said schmoopies are assholes. Also, not everyone is willing to be a schmoopie, but of those people who are willingly schmoopies, they are largely interchangeable because they’re are plenty of them and they aren’t substantially different from one another.

        You also don’t have to drop all of the anger you have for the schmoopie to put the anger for the cheater in the front seat.

        The point isn’t that schmoopies aren’t problematic. The point is that cheaters are the more urgent problem and the more effective one to solve. Get rid of one schmoopie, here comes another. Get rid of cheater, bam, no more schmoopies.

        Hate the schmoopies all you want. Just don’t spend all your energy attacking the schmoopies for the cheater’s choices. That’s all I’m saying.

          • X told AP he was separated, living apart from me and filing for divorce. She believed that. For a while.

        • After dday, when my therapist assigned 20% fault to gradwhore (who DELIBERATELY matched her little rush down to the coffee shop day after day to participate in an affair with a known married man with two young children), I was so triggered I had to call two suicide hotlines that night.

          Undoubtedly Hannibal was more at fault, but 33/67 of 40/60 is closer to the truth.

          • If I understand correctly, we are in agreement.

            I am sorry that you had to go through that.

              • And I don’t mean that in a lame way. I hate it that you had a Hannibal. I hate that we all had crappy cheaters in our lives, in much more than just a passing way.

                This forum is so, so needed. I am grateful every day.

                Thanks for all you give to it!

      • My husband is a liar and a cheat and as I have learned totally despicable. I hold him completely responsible for his actions. However, I get a lot of people telling me to blame him and not her. Well she is also to blame,

        At 37 her biological clock was ticking and she wanted a baby. Her boyfriend of 5 years wasn’t interested so she dumped him. She then set out methodically to find the father of her future child. It came down to my husband and another co-worker. She was an HR manager who knew what they earned. My husband made a lot more so even though the other guy was single, she decided to go after my husband. Now I can only imagine she figured this was ok because he left us 10 years ago to work in Switzerland leaving me in London to raise my daughter and manage everything on my own. He came home weekends but probably slagged me off to keep his options open.

        They had an affair. She didn’t “like” birth control so they went without and lo and behold, she falls pregnant immediately (well, she actually used ovulation tests which supposedly failed because they are both oh so fertile – yeah right). So she gets pregnant and he says he won’t be an absentee father. Now, mind you, he put off telling me about the baby for 5 months so he could go on a couple of family holidays with me, let me invest tens of thousands of pounds in our home and look for a job in Switzerland because he didn’t actually want a divorce. However, he figured I would dump him when I found out so he prepared himself for that eventuality. Then, because AP was in HR in his company, he was fired.

        What does she do next? Tells him: Move to Vienna! It is a chance to start fresh. You feel duty to your wife and daughter but you owe me just as much. It is your duty to be here every day to take care of our child. I am doing it all alone! What kind of idiot thinks someone who left their wife for 10 years to do everything on her own is going to suddenly pick up and move and be a good husband?

        I asked him once if she felt any remorse about destroying our lives. He said not at all. The letter I read from her also showed no remorse and was totally manipulative. I am praying they stay together. There mutual misery will be my revenge. Suckers!

        • What a piece of work. I get your husband getting canned but she was HR, maybe it’s a little different in Europe but her ass would be canned as well in the states. So OW set out to have a baby? Maybe, but I think she set out to snare a man. That’s just it though isn’t it? People like her would never have remorse or regret. However you are on target with their mutual misery…your ex dragged his feet with OW and the baby. She had to persuade him to come to Vienna but if I read your post correctly he was perfectly happy to stay married to you. If he went reluctantly, that will eat at her and she will make him pay.

      • AGREED.

        “Joint Principal” is the legal term for a participant in a crime.

        If two people burned my house down, my anger would be at BOTH.

        Well, two people, my fake husband and the Craigslist hookup “sole mate” burned my life down and I am angry at BOTH.

    • I actually think that directing the anger at Shmoops is one of the ways Chumps manage to stay and try to wreckoncile.

      The anger and hurt don’t just go away, especially with how little most cheaters will do to repair. So focusing on the AP helps the Chump continue to live with the abuser.

      • Trauma needs air. The air that comes with No Contact, Divorce and a Protection Order.

        • I am stealing this, “trauma needs air.” That just makes so much sense to me.

  • After D-Day of the last affair I actually when to church the next Sunday. The AP and his extended family all went there as well as my shattered family. I was by myself. Everything was exposed at that point, but I wanted to show up as some sort of show of bravery (or some such crap as that).

    The pastor had told him to set in the very back…he didn’t. He set where he normally did. He also told him to not go to the same Sunday school class. The pastor actually had to physical stop him from going to the class. He said that he wanted to personally apologize to me!

    I can’t believe how stupid he is! Did he actually think walking up to me and offering an apology was wise or even safe? I would have hurt or killed him.

    The best thing for me was to stay far away from them as much as humanly possible. Mainly because I really had no idea what I could have done in the moment if confronted, but also because cheaters are so dim witted and manipulative that there’s no way to predict what they will do either.

    • They’re not necessarily dim-witted. It’s very, very important to them that there be an excuse for their behavior that somehow makes it not their fault, or not that serious a transgression. With that much pressure, they will cast about until they find a reason why it’s not their fault. Usually that reason makes it our fault, and usually the reason makes no sense to us, but that’s not really important provided it’s convincing to them. I think that actually smarter cheaters have an easier time inventing the excuse.

      My XW is whip-smart and has all the credentials to prove it (Ivy-League-educated PhD, now tenured professor and one of the top scientists in an experiment that just won a Nobel Prize). She’s not ignorant of morality (she went to Catholic school in the most Catholic country in the world; we had a full Catholic wedding with all the bells and whistles; she is scrupulously honest with her grant money except when she’s flying herself to visit AP) but I can tell you that she has zero understanding that anything she did (breaking up her family, or AP’s family) was wrong.

      • your ex might be book smart but she is still dim witted and manpulative. hence the reason she has zero understanding of her own wrong doing — very dim witted. (and shallow)

          • The OW sent me a Messenger request. It linked with her Facebook page that included “sketches” she had drawn with her and wasband! I deleted her request as she is a stalker and I would never put my children in harms way. Wasband doesn’t even want a relationship with her but never takes responsibility for the risks he caused us by having an affair with her!

      • I agree! I’m not saying that their intelligence is lacking. I probably should have used a better word. The definition of dim I was going for is “not clear in the mind or senses”.

        My ex-wife came across as the devoted church girl. Volunteered loads of her time with the church. Going to church every time the doors were opened. However, after marriage, it slowly became apparent that this was just a source of narcissistic supply. She would spend hours working and helping others. At home she refused to help me around the house with anything.

        These people are full of contradictions!

        • SweetPotatoFlakes, we were married to the same type of cheater. My XH was/is the same at church. He’d spend hours and hours working on stuff for the boy youth group that he is a part of. But did he ever offer to help me around the house with anything? Nope. In 20 years, the only housework he ever did was vacuum the stairs about once a month. He made dinner once a year on New Years Day. I did a lot of the “man” jobs around the house. But at church he was a hard worker. And he upped his Christian Service after D-day; volunteering for things that I used to volunteer for. I stopped volunteering, because I couldn’t stand seeing his ugly, lying, cheating face at church! I have no doubt in my mind that everyone thought he was the perfect husband at home, because he was such a hard worker at church. Nope! Just the opposite. I agree with you that church was just more narc supply for him.

        • I don’t think they show contradictions at all. Their behaviour would be contradictory if they had the same motivations as we do.

          But their only motivation is KIBBLES.

          So being helpful and involved at church? Kibbles. Participating normally at home? Nah. Making sure everyone knows how honest they were about the insurance money? Kibbles! Being honest in their relationships w/us? Not as many kibbles as deceiving, cheating and drama!

          • Great point. It’s so important for chumps not to project typical human motives, behavior, values or beliefs onto cheaters. They aren’t like us.

          • Quite right! Once I realized the true motivation was kibbles, then it all made sense. Before I realized, none of her behavior made sense. Everything she did seemed to contradict.

          • Well put @KarenE !

            Basically you can summarise it by looking at what they do in public (as much as they can convince others what they are doing) versus what they do in private (as little as they can get away with)

      • My brother calls this type of Catholic, “Cafeteria Catholics”. They pick and choose what they want to believe in regards to their faith.

        My XH was scrupulously honest when it came to a car insurance claim. Someone from his job accidentally hit his car with their car. Their insurance gave XH money to fix his car. The car ended up not costing as much as they gave him. He made a big show of returning back the money to the insurance company! So whoever saw his big show of returning the money, all thinks he’s such an honest guy!! But he’s not. He’s just the opposite. Returning the money was just another Kibble Fest for him and also more image management. I’ve been around for a long time and he is by far the biggest liar I’ve ever met.

      • Involuntary, your XW is walking talking proof that KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM are two different things.

      • I mistook intelligence for character. Dr. Cheaterpants and I were very active in our Catholic church, sent our kids through Catholic school. He’s on the school board and volunteer assisting coaching our DD14. He’s also screwing another asst coach who’s 20-something years old. When the kids were young, he was screwing a twice divorced, history of cheating on both her husbands nurse in the unit where he worked. Which was super lovely for me as I’m a nurse in the same department but different unit. I still see her and eat that shit sandwich. Looking back on 2 secretaries and lots of lunches out with them, I now realize he was grooming them. One of them completely decorated his office with oriental rug, fake plants, lamps–it was really tacky and he was asking me how to politely ask her to remove it all.

        Cheater is engineer undergrad, 4 years of medical school, 3 years residency, a chief year, and a 3 year fellowship. He’s board certified in 3 specialties. I thought cheater was naïve to women looking to snag a doctor. Now I know he was a predator looking for a schmoopie to screw on the side while he got to enjoy his image and family on the regular. Until I kicked him out, filed for divorce, and changed the locks.

        • I too thought my ex-wife was naïve. She played the part perfectly. Still does, to be honest.

          She acts all sunshine and rainbows to everyone in public. Then when men contact her privately and try to have personal conversations, she “can’t be rude and ignore them”. Claims she “didn’t know what to do” when messages become flirty so she ends up doing nothing. Everything has plausible deniability except in her accounts she kept secret from me. She’s had her act down tight, until I hit the backup mother load.

          Thank goodness I still have some of her phone backups when she was in the middle of cheating. Absolutely not naïve in the least bit. Fully intentional with her behavior.

          It was wonderful to finally think “I KNEW it! I’m not crazy. This is really who she is”. It definitely helped loads with motivating me to get out!

  • My ex and I lived in a small village (I still live there) and Schmoopie is originally from there. There is one restaurant in the village and one café/bar owned by my friend. Sometimes I would stop in and see my friend on the way back from shopping or after work I’d sit and have a drink with him. Schmoopie used to stop in at this bar and drink since she knew pretty much everyone in the village. If I was coming home from work I looked very presentable, as opposed to the fat-ankled skank who looked like she’d just left the milking shed. She would also usually be three sheets to the wind on her nightly bottle of whiskey. I thought about no longer stopping in there but then I thought the hell with it, the owner is my friend (we took each other’s kids on holiday), SHE looks like what she is – a drunken skank, and anyone seeing me and her in the same room would realize what my ex soon realized – that he traded WAAAAYYYY down!

    • Yeah, my ex also had an exit affair with a woman who appears to be deficient in many ways. People used to ask me incredulously, “What was he thinking?!” My response, “He was well overdue for a downgrade.”

    • They always downgrade! I met my ex for him to give me my truck back. The court ordered him to get it out of my name and make payments when he refused. My attorney threatened contempt on temporary orders about 1 year into the divorce. He filled the bed of the truck with trash and garbage from him and AP upon returning it to me. I took the keys and calmly said “go back to your whore.” The whore posted the incident on facebook and people asked why they were still interacting with me? She told them he was married. All she got was crickets. She was a drug addict and a facebook porn show. The funny part is she left him 8 months after divorce finalized. Even the downgrade thought she deserved better.

      • Finding Peace –

        “ Even the downgrade thought she deserved better. “ ROTFLMAO!!!

      • See now this I struggle with . To all intents my STBXH has sooooo upgraded .

        She is 16 years younger than me ( and him ) she is pretty , she is thin , she has a good job ( they work together )

        She seems to be popular according to her Facebook ( I only have looked once and that’s when i found out her name ) She is Sporty and seems really into hobbies .

        Ok she has the morals of cat in heat and has no qualms about sleeping and living with a married man but apart from that my STBX has so traded up .

        No wonder he was NEVER going to give her up

        • KarenB, that’s all outside stuff — age, looks, job, and so-called Facebook popularity. That stuff all eventually fades away. What matters is who you are on the inside — your character, morals and values. He DID NOT trade up no matter what it looks like. Your STBX is living with a woman who is okay sleeping with a married man. That’s not trading up!

        • Karenb6972, he traded a good woman for a little whore. That is not an upgrade. She is a whore. You are not. He chose a downgrade. Her appearance, youth and education is no excuse for his betrayal. Those are superficial external things. Beauty fades but character lasts. Fuck that whore and him too.

          You deserve more. You deserve the peace of mind that comes with knowing she took your trash out. She isn’t an upgrade. She won a sparkling turd.

          Karen, my life is slowly getting better. I’ve joined a Knitting Club and a Ukelele Club. I am going to the gym five days a week. I’ve lost three pant sizes in the past six months. I am better off without that liar.

          I hope you can see the beauty that is yours alone. The beauty that shines through the number that age does to us. The beauty that needs no external validation; the beauty of a loving heart. You are beautiful.

          • I’m so Happy to hear you are getting your life back and have joined some amazing clubs they sound great .

            One day I’ll get it in my head she’s not better than me just because she’s younger and prettier . I have no idea who she is she might be a horror to live with I hope so ????

            Love and hugs to you 33 ❤️❤️

            • Karen, the Twat’s latest Schmoopie is his age (so 5 years younger than me), pretty and slim (and she certainly takes a good picture – as evidenced all over FB)! But she is also batshit crazy and at my son’s wedding in July the Twat was jumping at the bit because he wanted to come and sit at my table, where all the fun was!!! He didn’t but …. I spoke to his mom this weekend for her birthday and she AGAIN commented that he jumped in there feet first “and way too fast”. And neither of them are easy to live with so I’m hoping yours gets a taste of that medicine too!

        • Mmmm popular according to her Facebook. Literally so what? You actually know very little about her. And why would you want to.

          Trade up, trade down, horrible terms really. The younger model of course is appealing for obvious reasons and all that goes with it and lets face it it’s a path well worn. But what do you feel about someone that would do that? I just have zero respect for them both and the devastation they cause.

        • If she were all that and a bag of chips, why couldn’t she find a guy her age that was single? Sure the shallow cheater that is your ex thinks he’s banging a young one. Good people who bond would never do that. Dr. Cheaterpants is in his 50’s and his young schmoopie I think just turned 30. My teens can’t stand her as she thought she’d get to play mommy. She’s super in shape, bleached hair, etc… She spends lots of time on her looks and little time on anything else except screwing my ex. She doesn’t do chores like cleaning the house or yard work–my kids were expected to do all of that at their 5000 sq ft house on an acre.

          Schmoopies may look better on paper but they are never better than the chump. They were willing to screw around with a taken person who was supposedly in a committed relationship. They both suck.

      • “The funny part is she left him 8 months after divorce finalized” OW found cheater a lot more desirable when she perceived he was also wanted by someone else. When there was no one else in the picture fighting (again perception) for cheater she lost all interest. Most cheaters realize they are most attractive to the AP when the AP thinks the chump is fighting for them….so this is the one of the main reasons to triangulate.

  • I met a youngish man years ago. He had lived with a girlfriend for 10 years, she was older than him, and he helped raise her children. He found out that her business trips with her boss were actually sexcapades. For 2 years he was fooled. When he finally figured it out he beat her boss so badly the man spent a night in the hospital. I enjoyed THAT story.

    I don’t recommend this approach, but I understand it……

    • I’ve been tempted many times. How many times have I been told by family and friends “you can’t do that”. They forget that the correct statement is “you can’t do that, legally”…

      • Indeed. The desire to do something visceral gets curtailed by the sure and certain knowledge of jail time and a criminal record.

      • It isn’t worth getting a criminal record for. THEY are not worth that. But it makes a good fantasy.

        Silence really is the best revenge, that and making a good and interesting life for ourselves.

        • That’s for sure. I think it’s the main reason not to do it. But it feels like a very powerful fantasy, one that could overcome the more rational side of my personality. It’s certainly what happens to people involved in these crimes.

          After the hell I’ve been put through, I finally snapped and punched a hole in a door in my living room. I felt like a spectator to myself. I was doing it and watching myself doing it, terribly conscious that she would (finally) say ‘its over’, and that I triggered it. Now, I know better. But I was in a very, very weird state at that moment and after.

          Also, fun story, I’m a geek and there is a passage from Conan the Barbarian (the books) that I love. He’s talking with a rich, arrogant merchant and the guy is impolite with him. Conan asks him ‘do you know why barbarians are very polite with one another?’. The merchant answers he doesn’t know. Conan says: “it’s because if one barbarian is rude with another one, then the other one crushes his skull’. And the merchant apologises and becomes polite. Now, I often assimilate Shmoopies to this merchant.

          However, as good lawyers say, if it feels good, don’t do it. And as Chumplady says, it’s the long game.

          • Francois, I went through a stage of pure rage and anger too. Use that rage and anger energy for good! It most certainly needs to be released, but channel it towards productive stuff — exercise, lining up your ducks, packing if you need to, etc. All of us that went through the rage and anger stage totally understand wanting to hit Shmoopie or the Cheater, but like we all know, they are not worth jail time.

            Woman are labeled “crazy” and men are labeled “abusive” when they act out on the rage. It’s much better to be calm in their presence.

      • I get it. I actually got an email from the AP saying that I was an idiot and deserved to be cheated on. I told him a time and place to meet and discuss in person. Never got a response back.

        • I would be so embarrassed if I had sent that wouldn’t you? Perfect response.

    • Revenge rage is powerful. I have never felt more rageful – and hope I never do again- as when I found the ows stuff in my beach house. Blinding white rage. I took all the stuff I wanted from that place, threw the chairs off the deck, dumped his viagra in the toilet and peed on them. Didn’t flush. It made for a funny story. That started the divorce proceeding. I actually scared myself. Since all the crap I took was mine except the viagra, there was nothing he could do. Even the beach house was mine – sold that sucker. The moral to this story is you will feel intense scary rage. Find a way to release it with a great lawyer, lots of tears. Also beating on a pillow with a tennis racket is very therapeutic. These people suck. Eventually you can laugh at the idiot which drives them crazy – my response to all his whining these days is a laughing Donald duck. You are a caring loving person who was taken advantage of by a charlatan. Lose that toxic person and go live your best life.Hugs!

    • Beating the crap out of the boss was basic human nature. While I would certainly advise staying in control and just leaving the cheating skank, I certainly understand his temporary loss of control. The thing that scares me about therapists like Lori Gottlieb is that they want you to roll over and just take it, accept the abuse. I’m not sure if she actually believes her own crap or she is just some severely angry deviant working under the guise of being “so evolved”.

  • I can’t believe how much my attitude has changed since reading LAC. I don’t put up with crap anymore. I see it as crap and deal with it as crap. So glad I found chump nation!

  • It’s usually not a good idea to have communication with schmoops. It only makes you look pathetic. I truly wish I’d handled things with more grace. But my situation is a bit different. My serial cheater STBX traveled the world as a single guy. He always said he was divorced. The first schmoops found out and contacted ME. We confronted him together and she went on to have a good life. The last thing she said to me was don’t go back but I did. And of course he continued. The rest of the ones I know about were 3rd world women with terrible lives in menial jobs. Of course I contacted them all and had discussions about how he was cheating on all of us. And oh, BTW he’s married. Not a single one dumped him like I hoped. He sucked them back in with lots of drama (cake for him) on all sides. I now wish I had taken first schmoops’ advice and sailed away with my head held high. Grace is the best way to handle this. Trust that they absolutely suck and RUN!

    • Yes as hard as it may be not communicating with the AP, completely ignoring them sends a powerful message they are way beneath your dignity to warrant any type of communication.

  • One can only hope that this rebuttal of that ridiculous kibble dribble fest advice gets to Chris so he can get out and get on with his life. I see this almost everyday on the reality tv shows that are my guilty pleasures, except on Couples Court where they tend to tell them to run and run fast. Sadly the one cheated on rarely does even when they profess to be so angry that they are done. In the epilogue they usually forgive the cheater and are ‘happier than ever’. Hopium flows eternal in so many cases. I even see Dr. Phil getting to be a grumpy old man who is actually re-traumatizing females especially on his show. Puts me in a mood since they have the abuse app created for your phone and When Georgia Smiles charity for abused women. The guy can be sitting there with his 17 year old schmoopie/love of his life and he ignores them to yell at the female who is so beat down she can barely breathe. I want to just Gibbs slap him on that back of his bald head some days. Its so common for people to say oh just be patient and they will come back to you better than before and ready to commit to you and your relationship and expect you to wait for that damn cheating ass butterfly to land back on your shoulder. Yeah it will come land back on your shoulder when it been tossed out by sparklewings and needs a place to stay for winter. We need a cartoon of Chump Nation brand flying bug spray killing off those stupid hopium butterflies.

    Heres to hoping Chris has this article show up in his fb feed like a shining miracle from the Chump Nation.

  • I did NOT have a conversation with Captain Schmoopie… but I WOULD have if she had picked up the phone. (Incidentally, she wasn’t at work that day due to being hit in the face by a wine cork, no doubt celebrating their good fortune that Colonel Limp Dick was able to get it up the night before).

    In any event, regarding the conversation that Schmoopie and I didn’t have: Garth Brooks words ring true for me —> one of the greatest gifts is “unanswered prayers.”

    • “One of the greatest gifts is “unanswered prayers.”

      That sure is true when it comes to cheaters! I prayed and prayed for our marriage to be saved. I prayed that God would change my XH’s cold, dark, hard heart. I prayed for a miracle. God didn’t answer any of those prayers, because He loves me and didn’t want me married to a pathological lying, porn masturbating, Canadian stripper fucking, serial adulterer.

      My brother sent me a meme last night and it said, “The reason God allowed him to walk away is because you prayed for a good man, and he wasn’t it.”

      God answered my many prayers to “deliver me from evil”. Never in a million years would I have imagined that the person I was standing next to at church was the person God would deliver me from. Never go back to Egypt!

      • Martha –

        I’ll bet you can look back now and see “the prize” for what he was. Can’t think of a better description than the one you wrote: “a pathological lying, porn masturbating, Canadian stripper fucking, serial adulterer.”

        I can also look back and occasionally I still beat myself up over some of my antics to keep Colonel CrapWeasel. Unanswered Prayers. Truly the best gift! Had to get out of the forest to see the trees… but WE WON! The view is so much better now.

        • Absolutely, Laughing !! It truly takes getting out, distance and time to see them for who they truly are.

  • This is yet another example of why having “open honest dialogues” is just a bunch of crap. Perhaps this justifies a whole blog on why an entire profession wants to scam its potential clients into doing something that not only not helps the individual but can hurt them, ie give information that helps others know how to further hurt that person; or just approaching someone could be interpreted as being aggressive which can hurt someone’s reputation as well.

    • Just,
      I’m part of the ‘profession’ and definitely don’t spout the beliefs of Gotlieb. Just as there are good honest men and women, there are good, honest therapists. The men and women we coupled with are lousy specimens. That’s it.

  • “double-breasted mattress thrasher” – OMG, that made my fiance and I lol!!! HARD! Good one Sugarglider!

  • I have the OPPOSITE problem: I have NO desire to confront/talk to/retaliate against my STBX’s schmoopie-but Sir Sand-in-His-Vag INSISTS I be FRIENDS with her.

    I say the same thing EVERY time: “If I’m NOT friends with YOU-then I’m DEFINITELY NOT FRIENDS with HER.”

    Once again-Chump Lady for the WIN!!!!

    • Sounds like you need a strong case if no contact. Don’t give him the opportunity to tell you anything.

    • Same! Drives me nuts. Why in the world does my ex care of I like his schmoopie-OW-wife? Last month he sent a whole bunch of emails pleading with me to “engage” in a relationship with her. I said no thank you and ignored her emails. She’s a complete narcissist- and weird as hell. It’s not going to ever happen. Ever.

      My thought is that it’s about validation. He wants me to validate his choices to alleviate some of the guilt (??) that he carries for destroying our family. Or maybe he’s just an idiot.

  • Sigh. Last night I watched a Dateline jeebus-why-is-this-show-an-hour episode about Kandi Hall of Idaho and her triangle of deceit.

    3 cheaters: A father of 2 screwing around, a father of 5 screwing around, and the Kandi-Ho between them (one guy’s wife, of the mother of the 2). It ends with a confrontation between these two dorks and one guy gets dead (father of 5) and the other guy goes to jail for 30 years.

    The drama along the way includes the classic narcissistic behaviors by the 3 cheaters and the chumpy wife of 5 kids, including the one she was pregnant with at the time of his death. Her dead husband was a classic gaslighting abusive cheater and had the reptilian eyes to boot.

    The cheating was not a “mistake” as Kandi-Ho had the nerve to call it. It is her character. She ended up in jail for unrelated embezzlement against her former employer, and her interviews were dripping with entitlement. Want to know what a crazy OW looks like? There ya go. Her 2 kids have a father in jail and a thieving tramp for a mom. The mom of the 5 ended up remarrying.

    Lord help the little children, mere collateral damage in the relentless pursuit of exuberance and self.

    So yeah, things can go very wrong when confrontations happen. It can be “awkward” indeed.


        What the hell? How is this not abusing Ms. Birk?

        “”Your marriage did not end because of me, stop nailing me for everything,” said Kandi Hall on the Dr. Phil Show.

        “I’m not nailing you,” replied Birk.

        “Oh you are!” said Hall.

        “So I felt a little, I guess the word is violated,” said Birk.

        The closure that she had so hoped for was off the table.

        “It was almost like taking the wounds from the past and putting a little salt in them…like you know what, you weren’t enough and you were an idiot,” said Birk.

        You had an affair with her husband, you seem highly offended by this whole thing!

        “It made me feel icky,” said Birk. “It’s not what I came on the show for. I also didn’t want to say something that I would regret, so I didn’t talk a lot.”

        Ashlee says if she could go back in time, she wouldn’t do the show.”


      The factual background section is pretty pathetic:

      – Both cheaters are confronted about their chump spouses (Kandi admits it, then denies it)
      – They meet up at a pharmacy, then drive to an abandoned lot for the 2nd sex encounter of the day
      – Oldest daughter calls wondering where she is, Kandi says she’s “out with a female friend.”
      – Kandi’s chump calls, Schmoopie gets on the phone with him and is ‘derogatory, derisive, challenging and . . . aggressive.”
      – The confrontation ends in a shooting.

      Just appalling.

      • It gets better if you read the ex-Mormon boards. Emmett was abusive to his wife and their children too. Hard to figure out if it was the ‘roid rage, the entitlement or both fueling him.

        I’ve known people who were competitive body builders. Too many are INCREDIBLY narcissistic and entitled. I suspect that steroid abuse makes it worse.

        Like William Dameron shitting on Elizabeth, his wife. He used her because he was a coward. I bet he still is a coward too.

        “Dameron married his college sweetheart, (pseudonym). He believes his suppressed sexuality probably led to his wife’s anxiety disorder.”

        “How do I forgive the world for the yoke of pain it has placed upon me, which in turn I bestowed upon Katherine and my daughters?”

        Gee Bill – you think? Lying to someone for decades can make them crazy. What an ass. How about you quit blaming “the world” for your shitty decisions and the fact that you deliberately hurt people you SAID you loved. Liar sack of crap.

  • I have no desire to speak to whore! However in my dreams that’s different I fuck that bitch up like a fuck’n rag doll. The whores head bobbles like a bobble head. The throat punches are glorious as she gasps for breath. I love those grief dreams.

  • I couldn’t bare to see the OW at work after d-day. I only went back to pack up my things after hours. My ex and I had built the business over 11 years and she was one of 4 staff members. The OW didn’t even skip a beat. She was back in the office at 8:30am the morning after d-day. She wasn’t afraid to see me or worried about what anyone thought. Her complete lack of shame shocked me, what kind of a person was this?

    I couldn’t risk blowing up the business with what my ex had done so I had to stay silent and send out a ‘conscious uncoupling’ email. I couldn’t fire the OW because it is illegal so I had to walk out of my own life while she got to stay. It broke my heart that she sat triumphantly at a desk I bought, in the building I owned, at the business I grew and loved, drinking the coffee I supplied! Eventually, after months, she left with a huge chunk of money and never suffered a single consequence.

  • Here’s my quote for the day I read this on Tiny Budha:

    “When people say recovery, you typically think of returning to how you were before. But there is no going back. You do not merely recover, but reinvent yourself. You become something completely different from what you were before.”

    Hope this is helpful!

    • Great quote and very helpful!!

      For a few years, I’d say to myself, “I wish I could get the old me back. I’ll never be the same again.” And now I realize that’s a good thing!! The old me was a super duper chump that had no boundaries. The new me is no longer a chump and I’m slowly developing boundaries. I now “see” toxic and avoid it like the plague. I no longer over help and over give of myself in order for people to like me. I choose who I give my time too and I’m not easily manipulated anymore. I can now stop myself when I’m about to do something chumpy. It’s all good and I never want to be like the old me again. 🙂

    • This is so true. There is no going back—and back there, we were people who were fooled by cheaters.

  • I have never met or spoken to (or emailed or texted or anything) the man that my ex-wife left me and our 3 kids for. Anyone who hooks up with a woman that he knows to be married is a d*ck and does not get a second of my time.

    As regards my ex-wife, she is a d*ck also; for pretty much the same reasons, plus some other stuff. I’ll answer her texts/calls/emails while they relate to the kids, but anything else (and believe me, she tries on a weekly basis) is a straight grey rock.

    Neither of them spark joy for me, so f*ck ’em.

  • Talking to the AP never works. It just doesn’t. They DON’T CARE about how you feel. If they did, they wouldn’t be fucking your partner. Plain and simple. If they had even one drop of empathy toward you, they wouldn’t be in the picture. They wouldn’t be the affair partner. They would have taken one look at your cheater and been like “…ew no.” It’s an ego stroke for them to have you come groveling at their feet looking for them to care.

    I learned this the hard way many a year ago when I was only 21 and had caught my first cheater with AP no. 6. (I didn’t know she was number 6…at the time I thought she was only number 1. …Neewp…OW numero SIX.)

    Ohhhhhh the sOB sTOry I got from her. Holy crap. I got her entire medical history, her father’s medical history, how sick she was all the time and how hard her life is, and whine, whine, boo hoo she’s in sooOOoo much paaInnnn and he (my boyfriend) was just there for her and so caring and supportive and it was just meant to be because he cares for her and aleeviates her paaaaainn and I should realize that it is destined and just…move on so they can be happy in their true love. *puke* …It’s been more than ten years and that still makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

    Even though it’s been more than ten years since that happened, the point is still the same. It doesn’t change. Cheaters and APs are shockingly unremarkable in that aspect. It’s all about them, it’s all about what they want, they Do. Not. Care. If they’re not pulling the “Our Love is Greater Than The Both of Us It Was Destiny and We’re Special” line, it’s “Wow you are pathetic/crazy/sad/a mess no wonder he had to sleep with me.” Either way, it’s an ego stroke. Just don’t waste the time.

    P.S. He inevitably cheated on Ms. Medical Sob Story too. Guess “we’re meant to be” isn’t as powerful as “If he’ll cheat WITH you, he’ll cheat ON you.” …Maybe she should have just moved on so he and his next AP could be happy lol.

  • Here is what happened when I confronted the OW…

    Instance #1: Craigslist Hooker… I implored her to cancel her appointments with my husband…she responded, “I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry.” I had emails and phone numbers and banking proof… but she had no idea.

    Instance #2: I was told if I continued to “harass” her, she would go to the police. So, instead, she found out the hard way that he was cheating on her too and never intended to file for divorce, I had to finally do it.

    No contact is the only way to truth and sanity and healing. Chris – find a new job, find a new GF, and don’t look back.


  • I did have a contact with ow. When I kicked fuckwit out of both the beach house and family home, I emailed her and told her if she ever set foot on any property I managed she would be arrested for trespassing and the local sheriff had been notified and a security company is watching my properties. The latter wasn’t true but she didn’t know that.

  • What would we all do without Chump Lady and Chump nation? The RIC community has so many betrayed partners loosing their minds, and for what? Just to keep a liar and a scammer? Girl….
    I love Chump Lady’s no nonsense language and style. A lot of us chumps were chumped because of lack of self-esteem, self-respect and self-preservation.

  • This is very bad advice. It does not take into account that the OM, being a sleazy OM, doesn’t give a shit about your feelings and may just get angry. A shouting match could result and perhaps even violence. If that’s what you want, invite him to a dive bar after work. Don’t do it in the workplace.

    Better idea; don’t do it at all and find another job. Dump the skank while you’re at it or you’ll be back here someday because it happened again.

  • My XW fucked her coworker.

    I can’t imagine ever speaking to the guy. He’s just so totally beneath me–it would be like speaking to a dog…or maybe a mop handle. What would I even say? You’re a loser; so is my wife. Nice job by you two, finding someone as equally shitty as you are.

    I didn’t work with them. But I did condition our reconciliation on several changes, including her leaving that job and stopping all communication.

    She didn’t.

    I left her.


    • My XW had affairs with coworkers. One called me briefly after DDay. But I had my daughter with me so I said I would call him back. The married other man never answered his phone. Did tell his wife. Never was to mad at him, but directed my anger toward my XW. Doesn’t do any good as they have no courage or morals.

  • It’s noteworthy that The Atlantic must know this is pure unadulterated bull shit because there is no comment section.

  • Over the years, my ex-husband and I would often take the kids after church on Sundays for a late breakfast at a local family-owned restaurant. It’s a little dive place where the portions are big and the food is cheap. The three sisters who run the place saw my kids growing up over the years.

    My ex left me at the end of 2017 and pursued “the love of his life”. I forgot about going to that restaurant until my kids reminded me of the place. Their dad’s buddy is a musician and he started playing there once a month on Fridays. My ex took the kids to see his friend play one night.

    Anyways, I take my kids there for dinner. It had been two years since I had been, but the sisters remembered me. At the end of dinner, I left the kids at the table to pay my bill at the bar register when the one sister promptly filled me in on my ex and his schmoopsie. She explained that he had come to watch his friend play with this woman who was dressed like a tramp. Described her as a tiny thing who looks like she’s sick with something. My ex asked what country their wine was from. She said we have two wines – One Canadian, One French. His answer was, “Well, she only drinks wine from Italy, so I guess she won’t have wine.” The sister replied, “Sorry, we’re just not that kind of place for fancy people.”

    She went on to say that schmoopsie spent the evening prancing around in her halter top (she’s 40) speaking with a whiny voice and flirting with all the friends. She realized then that my ex and I must not be together anymore and couldn’t believe that he had replaced me with someone like this woman. The sister described her as being a complete ditz and proclaimed that there is no way that relationship will last. I told her how he was seeing this woman about 19-20 months of my marriage and he’d already left more than a year and a half before, so it’s been lasting long enough. She was completely disgusted.

    The other sisters chimed in their opinions too. Lots of eye-rolling. The one went on to say, “I’ve been in this business for a long time and I have met every kind of person there is. People are people, and I don’t usually judge. But, that woman! I did not like that woman. She is nothing but trouble. I hope you keep your kids away from her.”

    Ironically, my ex has now been gone from the marriage for 21 months. Basically they now have over 3 years together. Since he’s left the marriage, he has not brought her around the kids. He tried early August to do a beach day, but when my daughter found out, she had a meltdown, so he cancelled the date with schmoopsie (I’ll give him credit for doing the right thing by his daughter that morning) and took the kids on his own. He had no idea that the kids knew about her. I reminded him how he allowed the kids to spend the day with her when we were still married (that’s a whole other story), and that I explained to them back then why she was an an inappropriate “friend” and why it was wrong that daddy did that. The kids have also noticed her texts on his phone and have asked about her, so I’ve reminded them that it’s “that lady.”


    What kind of woman is this? She’s still his secret life as no family has met her and none of his good friends (but for the musician who was always his alibi during his affair and is a cheater himself) and some other fringe friends.

    I have not met her. And, thank God, she’s not much on my mind anymore. I got over the fear that she might be better than me or that she might be his true love. Luckily, everything I have ever learned about her points out that she is a mess.

    No good comes from ever approaching the schmoopsie. I’ve imagined 1000 scenarios and reactions if I ever ran into them. What I’ve settled on is looking her in the eye, pasting the most polite smile on my face and saying, “Hi. I’m the wife who stayed home with the kids while my husband was out having fun. I hear the fun was you. Congratulations.” Move on.

  • My first thought was that it’s a bit misogynistic to not hold this girlfriend responsible for her own actions. “It’s the man’s fault, she knows not what she does.” And that pissed me off.

    My second thought was, they aren’t even married, just leave her, you don’t even need a lawyer!

    My third thought was, Lori Gottlieb is a dumb-ass.

  • As far as I’m concerned, both my XH and Married Howorker are responsible for the implosion of 2 40-year marriages, and the collateral damage foisted on 14 innocent individuals. He was a serial cheater, always looking for the next mark to groom, and it turns out, she was sitting in the very next office. He knew she was married with two children and six grandchildren; no matter, he knew his magnetic charm and wit could easily overcome that minor obstacle. Likewise, she knew he was married with three children and a grandchild; no problem, what her husband didn’t know wouldn’t hurt him. Now, the two lovebirds are married, living their superficial papier-mâché existence, and with any luck, they’re cheating on one another. In the meantime, I find peace in being Zero Contact and not concerning myself with their daily charade.

  • I used to hold The Atlantic in high regard. I used to respect the writing and writers they published.

    But giving this Gottlieb goof a regular gig has sullied their reputation.

    Such sickening b.s.

  • When I found out about XW’s (initial 1st AP discovery) sidefuck, I went outside, hung a shillouette target and loosed a dozen 357 rounds.
    She was alarmed when I brought the target back in and showed it to her. I told her I jerked the first two shots off and missed. Soon afterwards I called my best friend and had him come collect all my firearms and ammo for safe offsite storage. Except the revolver. I live in the country. (bears) Nightstand Self Defense.

    ..within a few days, I drove to AP1’s house wanting to find him and look him in the eye. He wasn’t there. I left a note in his mailbox. “Leave ‘fuckwit’ Alone.” She protected him in a later discussion where I was considering sueing him. I hope this asshole looks over his coward shoulder for the rest of his miserable life.

    She moved in with AP#2 a short time (weeks) thereafter. Downgraded from a home with pool and guest cottage on 15 acres into a 26 foot camper with a beer salesman. Posted her new life on FB. BOOM!

    It was more than I could stomach and I retained an attourney after discovering AP#1 much less even knowing about AP2. I KNEW I was done BUT in SHOCK and Blind with Hopium overdose. It worked out well for me from a mental health standpoint after I started comprehending the 180 concept BUT moreso after finding and listening to LACGAL about 10 times on audiobook. #chumpBASICTRAINING

    The No Fault Divorce ONLY took 9 months-she was so Eager to walk out and sustain her image management that she signed over everything I wanted. It was CLEAN=no lingering financial parasites. That’s QUICK here. I went 98% NC with her within the first half of this shitstorm… ONLY to attend to necessary document signings at a (PUBLIC) bank offering free Notary services. Recorded audio if she visited unannounced. Been FULL ON NC since. Healing is slow, but Happening. (Interesting tidbit…AP1 same name as her son, AP2 same name as mine….Points to a derranged mentality for me)

    She showed up last October at my doorstep after (she?) had paid several neighborhood acquaintenances to load OUT all her shit from the house. She walks over afterwards, knocks on my door & hands me a ziplock bag of printer cartridges I’d forgotten to take when I moved out of our marital home. (She was not allowed inside my abode). I told her to leave and never come back. She was not welcome here, she was not liked here ,that ALL the neighbors knew about her Character now, and I’d have her arrested for tresspassing if she ever did return.

    Today I’m Thankful for beersalesmanAP2. Your problem now Buddy. Enjoy your previously-owned serial cheater….POS ‘C’.

    Karmic Schadenfreud expected in the forecast. Me AND Beagle Units 1 & 2 are doing just fine..

  • After spending the first 3 weeks post-Dday begging my ex to stop communicating with his married w/two kids AP (they met “cute” on Craigslist when he answered her tawdry ad looking for afternoon/evening sex romps with married men), the couple’s therapist I frantically enlisted the day I accidentally discovered the affair finally convinced (hahaha!) him to cease communication with her “for one month” to give therapy and our marriage a chance.

    Of course “Mrs. Craigslist” continued to email and text him — he showed me one of the messages with the subject line “Unadirectional Communication” (oh, the entitlement!). He defended her saying how incredibly hard it was for her to refrain from reaching out to him and expressed that he was worried about her fragile mental state. I now know communication between them never really stopped for more than a pitiful two days, but at the time I believed it was just her refusing to pause even for a moment. Anyhow, I’m mortified to admit I asked my ex to give me her contact information so I could make a personal appeal for her to give us some space. HUGE, STUPID MISTAKE. I emailed her to ask if we could speak on the phone and asked what a good time might be. Her response was nothing short of a calculated power-play: Yes, she would be “so happy” to speak to me, but sadly she wasn’t free except for a 10 min window the following week! Good Chump that I am, I dutifully waited, planning my appeal to her better angels. And then….a week later she called (5 min late, naturally). Her first words were a snippy, “Well, how can I help you?” The moment I heard her voice my carefully scripted, well-reasoned words completely escaped me and I dissolved into tears Instead of calmly presenting my case I just choked out super Chumpy things like, “I love him so much, he’s my only family, we were happy for 20 years, please stop contacting him so we can try to fix this…” between sobs. As long as I live I will never, ever, ever forget her ice cold response, tone and inflection: “Well, DEAR, I certainly can’t help you with THAT, but you let me know if there’s anything else I CAN help you with.” And that was it. I knew in that soul-piercing moment that my marriage was irrevocably broken.

    I’m still picking up the pieces (it’s been just over 3 years since that day). I’m every-so-slowly rebuilding a life that is far from perfect; I have good days and bad days. Looking back, one of the things I regret most in the aftermath of discovery was the decision to try to reason with an entitled, ethically challenged, crazy person (and, turns out, pathological liar who’d help take down a few other marriages before mine). I showed her vulnerability and she went for the jugular. That’s what predators do. Jot that down and never forget it.

    • You were dealing with a sociopath, maybe two of them. You survived it. That’s mighty.

    • Do not worry sweetie. She gave a practiced soundbite. You are a heart felt human being. There is nothing wrong in being vulnerable and appealing to someone’s better angels (they may not have them). You managed and you are mighty. Peace and joy to you. Your husband is worried about her mental state? The turd.

  • “It’s been really awkward for me to see you at work after what happened between you and my girlfriend, and for both of us to pretend it didn’t happen. I wonder if you’ve felt just as awkward and wanted to say something to me. I’m not interested in details or anything like that—I believe everything my girlfriend has told me and we’re doing much better now. All I want to say is that your part in what happened hurt me deeply, and I thought you should know.”

    *stabs self in eye with fork*
    *stabs self in other eye with fork*

  • Ha! Well said. If they don’t spark joy, put them in the donation pile!

    I confess I spoke to schmoopie once via phone. Well, actually, she blathered on about wanting to be a resource to me (!?!?). And I gave in because I was brow-beaten into it. My then husband was desperate for us to be friends (Yeah, he’s a bit delusional -and very emotionally abusive.) He repeatedly demanded that I talk to her. I finally capitulated only after he’d screamed f*ck you several times at me.

    Later, after the divorce, he tried his antics thru email— both of them emailed me and both were pretty angry when I flat out refused to respond to her emails.

    To this day I can’t quite figure out why my validation of their stupid relationship matters. (I think maybe my ex is trying to alleviate guilt??) But whatever. They live far away. My kids are more or less grown. There is no visitation or anything. So my plan? Grey rock grey rock grey rock.

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