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Is This Intense Hate Normal?

Dear Chump Lady,

Is it okay that I actually feel hate toward my cheater until I get to my Tuesday and meh?

20 years and a 15-year-old daughter; D-Day 1 in September 2019. I agreed to reconcile for our daughter’s sake.

D-Day 2 this March 2020 as the world goes on lockdown, the cheater tells me she never stopped seeing Schmoopie during reconciliation. So now I’ve been double chumped…I know, fool me once…whatever. I should have listened to the alarms going off in my head.

Anyway, she told our daughter last week as if it were no big deal and life would simply continue with only minor adjustments. Our daughter is so angry at her and refuses to be around her so I sent her into “quarantine” with other family while cheater comes and goes from the house, stopping in for a change of clothes each day then back to her Schmoopie.

I have a lawyer working with me, finances are good, house is mine, and cheater says she’ll be out by summer. But she hasn’t cried even for our daughter’s tears, hasn’t said she is sorry to our daughter for blowing up our family, and continues to blame me for being moody and boring.

By the way, there’s never been yelling, abuse, or anything crazy between us. She says she’s just bored with me because I’m no fun.

I thought she was my person, CL, the woman I could be my authentic self with. But now I see the last 20 years was a lie. The only good to come of it was our daughter.

Since September, I’ve read your book 2x, listened to the audio 3x, lurked and read and commented on your site. I thought I was getting better since I’d moved past the disbelief that she isn’t the person I thought she was, endured and accepted the hurt of rejection, pushed through the fear of being alone, rallied my soul from despair to protect our daughter.

But now all I feel when she pops in for a shower and change of clothes is disgust, revulsion, and hate. Yet I remain civil and polite all the same because I’m a decent person.

I have never felt this much hate toward another person, let alone someone I had devoted my life and love to for 20 years. And I’ve always considered myself to be loyal and compassionate so these feelings are so unsettling.

Please tell me this intense hate is normal, please reassure me that Tuesday will come and I will achieve meh. I don’t want to be this person, but I can’t let go of these feelings.

Sincerely,

Hating and Struggling Not To

Dear HASNT,

Think of these intense hatred feelings as a fever and she’s the virus. Your body is firing off these alarms and defensive systems because it rightly perceives a threat. When the danger is over, the fever will break.

You are mere weeks out from a second D-Day, living through one of the most difficult times in recent human history, a pandemic — of course you’re overwhelmed by unsettling emotions. You feel deeply because that’s who you are — someone who FEELS. And it’s very maddening to be a maelstrom of feelings when you’re sidled next to a narcissist who has none at all. (Unless you count self-pity, and I’m not.)

She’s betrayed you, after you made yourself — and your daughter — vulnerable to her again. That’s crushing. And then her response?

she told our daughter last week as if it were no big deal and life would simply continue with only minor adjustments.

It’s the old “I fail to understand your hostility” mindfuck. Minimization is the abuser’s playbook. She’s acting as if there is nothing to be upset about, as if your investment in her and your family were a trifle. A sofa that could just be rearranged, or left on the curb. A magazine she doesn’t feel like renewing… Of COURSE you’re infuriated — it’s infuriating! Naturally, you’re directing those feelings of fury where they originate from — her.

And HASNT, you’re probably furious at yourself too. Any chump who’s tried again after the first D-Day gets it.

I should have listened to the alarms going off in my head.

Yeah, you probably should’ve of, but don’t beat yourself up. It takes a big heart to try. You tried, so have zero regrets about the end of this marriage.

Just because you didn’t listen to the alarm bells then, doesn’t mean you can’t listen now. You’re doing all the right things to protect yourself — lawyer, finances, housing. Keep focusing your energies there on escape, and try to conserve yourself for the marathon suckfest of divorce.

As for her, when you feel hate and revulsion, remember those are alarm bells too. Those feelings are trying to protect you from investing again. From being duped. From caring for someone who doesn’t care for you.

As long as she’s waltzing in and out of your home for a change of clothes every day, you’re going to feel off-balance. Why not move all her crap out in one go? Tell her it’s no big deal and life will continue with minor adjustments.

Consider a storage locker. Move all her stuff into one and pay the first month’s rent. She can come and go from Pack ‘N Shit at her leisure.

Back to your emotional state — strong emotions are part of the processing. Who is she really? What did my marriage mean? Did I ever matter? Here’s a shortcut — trust that she sucks.

Tell your internal processor that you’ve reached a conclusion — she’s a bad egg.

via GIPHY

You won’t need to fire up the old emotional jalopy with hatred and revulsion — just, bad egg. NEXT.

When you’ve internalized this, and separated her from your life, the intensity will fade. She’ll continue to suck, but it won’t be your problem anymore.

(((Hugs))) Hang in there.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I’m so sorry, HASN’T. She’s shown you who is truly is.

    She’s horrible for what she’s putting you and your daughter through but also exhibiting horrible and possibly criminal behavior (depending where you live) during this pandemic going and forth between your house and her AP. She needs to stay out of HASN’T’s house to stop from spreading the deadly virus to you and others.

    • I agree. It doesn’t sound like she’s sleeping at your place, so why does she think it’s ok to treat your home like a truck stop with a storage locker, where she can shower and get ready for her next date?

      We’re under stay at home orders (at least in my area we are). She needs to pick a home and stay there, lest she drag the virus into your home from wherever she plunks her cheating ass the rest of the time.

      • More than likely Schmoopie has not invited her to move in yet. So she may spend her nights at his place but it’s not her home. She is in the delirious stage and is only thinking of herself and her lover. Daughter is old enough to figure out her mother is a selfish twit. If cheater thinks this will blow over with her daughter, she better think again. This has set the stage for, at best, a lifetime strained relationship between mother and daughter. Cheater mom better be prepared for taking a back seat to her daughter’s life and I highly doubt this cheater relationship will have been worth it in the end.

        • Exactly. My ex wife and daughter (17 at the time of mom leaving, 23 now, while they “talk” they don’t have a great relationship), daughter refuses to associate with her new Mr Wonderful, spends all holidays with me as does my son etc etc…my exes holidays and vacations are spent with her AP and her mother lol, which I gave to chuckle at, she was just as disordered.

        • I wanted to say the same thing. The other man won’t have her full time at his house either, since it’s doubtful he really gives a shit about her. I’m sure it’s been no strings attached sex up to this point. HASNT Letting her stay at the house is too disrespectful. Out with her now. Take a hard line approach.

        • Storage locker YES
          Divorce from bed and board if you aren’t ready for a divorce. Sympathies. I moved my husbands stuff out and I’m finding peace again.

      • Exactly. Your home is not a truck stop! Put a bag of her raggedy whore clothes on the porch. She will live. It is so bold and rude for her to act like that. She Really sucks. Don’t allow it. Please put a stop to this. Respect yourself and keep her from behaving like that in front of you and your daughter.

    • Pack up all her clothes and have it ready for her. If she doesn’t agree to stop coming over, start reporting her for violating a stay at home order if your state has one.

    • My ex wife did this to me and our daughter who was 17 at the time without a care in the world, it was all about “her happiness”..anyway what helped me is want Tracy suggested and that was I bagged all her damn clothes in plastic hefty like bags and threw them in the garage and told her to get them out of there in one week or I’m donating them. And get her out of the house any means possible. You need that separation to even begin to heal. Screw how she feels at this point.

  • HASN’T, ask your lawyer if there’s a way you can get exclusive use of the house.

    If that’s not a possibility, then take Chump Lady’s advice and rent ex a storage locker for her clothes.

    As for a shower, she can wash her skank ass at her boyfriend’s house. Or you can just spray her with the garden hose as she approaches the door.

    • she should not be allowed to come and go -she needs to simply go and stay gone .
      Your daughter should be home with you

      • I thought the same thing but the daughter doesn’t want anything to do with her mother and her mother’s comings and goings would really upset daughter. His daughter’s life has been upended by a cheating skank of a mother and it is not easy to kick someone out of their home. So cheater comes & goes as she pleases while chump sits stewing, full of hate. I get the hate, in fact it’s healthy, but it’s not healthy to be around this person. Waiting for her to leave this summer is puzzling. I may be dead wrong and I hope I am but I get the feeling chump is waiting, hoping cheater comes to her senses, begs forgiveness and wants to reconcile. If only for his daughter’s sake I hope he doesn’t consider taking this cheater back. Daughter has had enough family dysfunction.

        • It seems to work differently for cheating women. According to my lawyer, way back when I went through this, it looks very bad for a husband to kick his wife out of the house. In fact, we aren’t allowed to, especially if the husband is the bread winner. While still married, she has every legal right to access the house. Hence, my one year of stewing in hate and certainly NOT wanting to reconcile while living with cheating XW who “had some things to do” a few times a week.

          • It’s probably very different during a pandemic If there is a shelter in place order. What this woman is doing is possibly dragging a deadly virus into her home, and at the end of the day, she is endangering the minor child, And disrupting her stability. I know in Texas, courts really frown upon mistreatment of children, regardless of the gender of parent doing that. If OP Address is this with his attorney straight away, he may be able to get a protective order in place on behalf of him and his daughter since this woman will not shelter-in-place, as she is willfully violating laws meant to protect human health and safety strictly in order to carry on her sexual dalliances.

            Having a protective order will settle the conversation about whether or not she can be in that house. She cannot be. She can’t even be near it. Having a protective order on file will also go along way in the OP’s favor when it comes to getting his divorce settled, and getting his custody/possession issues settled, keeping his daughter with him in the home.

            • Please pardon the spelling errors. I did a talk-to-text post, and Siri does not speak Texan. 🤠

            • I don’t know what Texas court you have been dealing with. I have basically been told unless my child has severe bruising and broken limbs the dad will still have weekend visitation. My daughter has come home with a broken arm. Got told kids have accidents. She said her dad was hitting her feet with willow switch. got told parents have the right to discipline as long as it doesn’t leave marks. Because it is the child’s word against a parent. Verbal and mental abuse mean nothing in Texas. I wish the who ever wrote this letter success. My cheating ex kicked me and our children out of marital house, I was stay at home mother. Took so long to get a protective order that they gave him possession of house and me and kids slept on friends couches; because he had been in the home with his new woman and me and the kids hadn’t been at the house in 2 months.
              Don’t count on fair- Don’t count on the system protecting you or your children ( they are property till there 18th birthday). I am pretty close to MEH – 3 years out I have rebuilt a pretty great life. With some really great friends. I don’t care what happens to my ex and can’t wait till the day I never have to see another nasty thing hes got to say. I know that someday the kids will be grown and free from the abuse, but until them I am teaching them coping techniques and how to be strong.

          • It’s probably very different during a pandemic if there is a shelter-in-place order. What this woman is doing is possibly dragging a deadly virus into her home, and at the end of the day, she is endangering the minor child, and disrupting the child’s stability. I know in Texas, courts really frown upon mistreatment of children, regardless of the gender of parent doing that. If OP addresses this with his attorney straightaway, he may be able to get a protective order in place on behalf of himself and his daughter since this woman will not shelter-in-place. She is willfully violating laws meant to protect human health and safety strictly in order to carry on her sexual dalliances.

            Having a protective order will settle the conversation about whether or not she can be in that house. She cannot be. She can’t even be near it. Having a protective order (or restraining order, whatever is appropriate) on file will also go along way in the OP’s favor when it comes to getting his divorce settled, and getting his custody/possession issues settled, keeping his daughter with him in the home.

          • I was not only kicked out but evicted.
            When I contacted eviction attorneys that said they’d never seen it happen.
            It happened, when I said I had nowhere to go I was told I had to live out of my car.
            I had never been more humiliated.
            Female judge partial to Cheater.

        • Trust me, KB22, I am way, way, way beyond hopes or desires to reconcile.
          When I saw how my daughter reacted, when she lay in her bed sobbing uncontrollably then later took a walk with me and asked if this is why I’ve been so sad lately…I knew right then, I couldn’t let her see me be weak or indecisive.

          I promised her I would not betray or leave her. That she was my number one priority, no matter what happens.

          So with my daughter as my focus, trust me, I could never ever take the cheater back.

          • Hang on to that, because it does get hard. The cheater has a lot of practice twisting and manipulating and abusing those of us on this side of the table, while we wrestle with trauma bonding and stuff like that. It is actual work to let them go and leave them gone. Please keep your eyes wide open, and keep doing the hard work each day. You will get through this.

            As for your daughter, I really recommend you do what you can to fully and permanently evict the cheater from your house, and get your daughter home as fast as possible. Thinking about my own daughter, and things she said to be about the way I handled myself in early days following the end of my marriage, I’d be worried that your daughter is interpreting her being somewhere outside of her home as you choosing the cheater over her. I know in your heart that’s not what’s happening, and you have her elsewhere to protect her, but I’d be a little bit concerned she’s seeing it differently. Teenage girl brains are complicated. Just my two cents.

          • Why was the house only ever in your name when you are a married couple ? I don’t like the sound of that.

            • Laine, there are lots of perfectly good reasons for one spouse owning the house. And I do like the sound of it , especially the sound of Hasn’t Has The House; [Hasn’t Hasn’t?]. It’s downright lyrical.

            • He might’ve owned it before they were married or maybe she had terrible credit so he didn’t put her on the mortgage or the deed. Depending on his state and the length of the marriage, it might not matter. Hopefully he’s working with a lawyer.

  • Please. Get her completely OUT OF THE HOUSE (with guidance from your lawyer). She’s tracking in virus particles. Imagine your anger when you’re infected & fighting for your life. This shit is real.
    Be well. We all get it.

  • It’s ok to hate.
    You should be hating, it’s your fuel to get thru this. The hate will go away when it’s time.

    You’re doing the right things. We’re your army.
    You’ll get through this.

    • Yep. The hate is natural. It’s healthy to acknowledge that you‘re experiencing it and to give yourself some leeway and understanding that this isn’t typically the way you are. You also should be aware that the hate and anger can be unhealthy for your mind and body and internalizing it has absolutely no affect on your soon-to-be-ex.

      But it can be used to motivate you through the divorce process. I would recommend that during idle times when you feel the hate and anger burning you up inside, that you focus your mind on doing something selfless for other people. I found that doing small acts of kindness for strangers helped me tremendously to dispense with the overflowing hate and anger that was only harming me.

      I wish you all the best and godspeed to get through this slow walk through hell. As long as you keep moving forward with things you will eventually get there and life will be yours to shape into something that brings you to a calm, healthy place.

  • As long as she’s waltzing in and out of the house, your feelings will only intensify. Why does she get that sort of freedom anyway? If she’s out she’s out.

  • HASNT

    A loving loyal man who likes to stay home with his wife and child? You are gold man!! You’re a freaken platinum plated diamond. And she, like all cheaters, is a piece of dog shit. Of course you’re enraged! Someone keeps tracking dog shit into your home every day. The rage will fade over time but only after you go no contact. Listen to the good advice you’ve already been given here. Consult your lawyer and find a way to keep the crap out of your home and watch your rage wash away like a turd in the rain.

    The disgust and revulsion will stay. Why would you even want to change that? Who wants to feel anything but disgust and revulsion for a steaming pile of dog shit? You are way too close to D day to be ready for another relationship but I promise you, some lucky woman will snap you up as soon as you are ready. In the mean time your POS ex will get flattened by the karma bus eventually.

    • The whole “forgive and forget” nonsense is foolish. If someone jumped out of a bush, stabbed you and you child in the back, and stole wherever they could grab, would you “forgive and forget”? Hell no you’d go all Charles Bronson on them. Viva la hate!

      • Yes, temporary hate can be very healthy and believe it or not, satisfying. It’s ok to feel the hate and be angry towards the person (s) that took part in upending your life. Important to direct the hate, disgust and anger at the appropriate culprits. Innocents (co-workers, friends, children, family members) should not have to pay the price for the cheater’s actions. Falling into the “forced” forgive/forget or turning the other cheek too soon can make a person manifest physical or mental illness. Also, important to note there should be an expiration date on the hate. Get it out of your system and move on.

  • I’m assuming other family refers to your relatives? Yes it’s important to protect her now and after this pandemic passes. I seek temporary cull custody of your daughter at this time as well as a temporary order giving you sole access to the home until the divorce is finalized. Otherwise she’ll maintain the right to access the home. She’s not sleeping there? Boot her ass. Expect the worst once consequences are served. Ignore all threats and let your attorney handle everything. When she enters the home don’t engage in any way.

    • SO MUCH THIS

      …remember, divorce attorneys have seen Every Trick In the Book with these pieces of human dogshit

      & you are hiring them for THAT knowledge, really more so that the “law” stuff they know by passing the bar or whatever, although that stuff matters too

      But consult a good attorney and follow his/her exact steps to get her out now, which may be easier than you think psychologically, once busted the Group Trend is kinda to fold at the first cold strike of an attorney

      But the mileage on your whore may vary, just like all of us

      Stay mighty!

  • Tell her to get the fuck out and STAY OUT! She can go live with Schmoopie. How dare she risk your lives with her bad behavior. Pack her bags, and send her out the door. She is Schmoopie’s problem now. She doesn’t get to keep one foot in your world!

    • Yes! Usually the advise here is to get checked for STIs (which you should do), but she is endangering you and everyone around her! If you do have shelter in place laws where you are maybe you can use them as leverage to get her out of your home.

  • Here’s what’s not normal – her.

    Your righteous anger is running smack into your fear that if you send her away, she won’t come back. She has not experienced the consequences of her actions and expects you and your daughter to accommodate her craziness. Who else is at risk from this behavior – her affair partner’s family? Let them know, too.

  • HASNT,
    What a miserable experience to go through on top of this cataclysmic pandemic! I’m so sorry for your losses. I feel for you and your daughter, who is being doubly punished by your cheater’s ineffable entitlement.

    I was duped 3x (known) over 30 years…it helps fuel the GTFO muscle development. I didn’t have so much hatred as disgust and disdain for my ex, revulsion at the sight of him. I had drunk the RIC koolaid previously, so LACGAL & ChumpLady saved my freaking sanity!

    I can’t imagine what it is like having that creature come & go like you’re her free dump-my-tainted-clothing hotel room. She poses a REAL, existential threat to you! UGH! Get her out! By whatever legal means necessary. You will notice an improvement in your life instantly.
    You can do this. Feelings – even hatred – aren’t up for debate; they just are. Yours sound logical & productive, but emotions don’t always meet the needs test. Anger is a phase of grief and it will pass, as all feelings do. I wasted a lot of time trying to untangle the skein of fuckedupness to try to make sense of a mindset that is foreign to me. I’d rather be a chump who is all in and feels than whateverthehell they are.

    You got this, HASNT. And your daughter is so lucky to have ONE. SANE. PARENT. during this global shitshow. She needs you. My daughter was the same age when my marriage imploded. It shook her and she needed a lot of support. Now she is a senior, missing the last days of her time w her best friends and teachers, no prom, no yearbook signings, probably no graduation. I think her experiences from the breakup of her family have helped to prepare her for this unimaginable pandemic. I never would have thought that there was an upside to what she’s been through, but here it is.
    Fight for your girl, HASNT, and come back here to get the shoring up you need as often as you need us. We’re here because there were amazing people here before us who did the same for us. This community saved my spirit. Welcome to our ranks, we know the awful price of admission. You will get through this.
    Peace. Stay safe.

    • Thanks, ChumpDiva, it’s been especially hard given the pandemic. I already struggle with anxiety and depression as well as c-ptsd. Just having to face what all this means for my job, my daughter and her school, my 88-year-old mother, my friends, and other family has put me in anxiety overdrive.

      I still have no idea why she announced on March 16th she was out. Such weird timing. But I refuse to spend time on untangling her skein of f*ckupedness!

      One thing I’m proud of for myself, though, is I’ve abstained from alcohol or drugs or overeating crap food. I’m working out every day, eating well, and helping my neighbors and family. I guess my hate and anger are my fuel at the moment.

      • That’s all good; you’re controlling what you can control and making good choices. Best of luck to you, and your family!

  • The hatred won’t go away too quickly. Especially when you share a child together. Digust and revulusion for people who cruelly dupe their families is perfectly normal.

  • I have never in my life felt this kind of hatred and anger and rage at another human being. That’s an achievement considering the family I grew up in. I never thought the man I married would top that by light years. It is upsetting to me as well. But I am
    human, and even Jesus got angry at…..MONEYLENDERS! I am not affiliated with any organized religion but I am a student of spirituality and I know this story. If he got mad at moneylenders, how would he have felt if he were married and cheated on? I don’t know, but if moneylenders pissed him off, I can’t imagine him being cool with being cheated on. Anyhoo….I am far less evolved than Jesus for sure and have to accept that I am human and feel RAGE, which is a normal reaction to being intentionally harmed.

    THROW HER OUT. Let her stay with Schmoopie. Coming and going traumatizes you over and over again. That’s an extra layer of outrage and she is (THEY are) playing with dynamite. This kind of provocation is how terrible things happen and people end up in jail that might not otherwise be there. You deserve to feel safe.

    I am sorry for your loss. Welcome to the lifeboat.

    • Yes, get her out. Never be alone with her. All she has to do is claim “she fears for her safety” and the cops will throw YOU out! Its standard operating procedure once she consults a divorce atty. Think she wouldn’t do that to you? I bet you thought she wouldn’t cheat on you either.

      • My lawyer warned me about that also. Never went to get my things without a witness. She tried that tactic with me and it got so bad that my lawyer and elders in my church told me to get out NOW.

    • Great reply, Velvet Hammer!

      I too was surprised at the intensity of the anger I felt. I’m not a religious person either but had enough religious education as a child to know well the story of Jesus and the moneylenders. Such an excellent point you make! Anger – like the kind that makes you want to flip tables – is not only normal, but even Jesus would totally “get it!”

      And you are so right that “coming and going traumatizes you over and over again.” I did in-house separation for awhile and I was anxious and angry and found it difficult to relax even when he was out of the house – because I knew The Python would come slithering back in a matter of hours.

      • Repeating “vengeance is mine saith the Lord”, OFTEN, is keeping everyone safe from harm in my world. Again, I have no religious affiliation but this is really working for me when I get hit by a wave of rage. I’ve had plenty of experience keeping my cool and watching the karma bus hit without my involvement to inspire me to stand down.

        I BREATHE AND WAIT IT OUT and avoid avoidable triggers at all cost!

    • Hi Velvet,

      Just to be clear, Jesus was not angry at people who loan money. What was happening in the Temple was that the money lenders were exchanging value for much less than what they were given ie. making a profit from what was offered to God, particularly, from people who had very little in the first place.
      Jesus had no tolerance for using God’s love and mercy to scam people.

  • You said the house is yours. I don’t know where you live but here in Fl once you marry the house is marital property.
    My ex hit me with DD#4 and that he was leaving me for her but continued to live in our marital home for SIX WEEKS.
    He was intensely hated here and did (wait for it) go on dates with her while he was living here. In the early stages it’s hard to know what the rules are and you choose your battles…I get it.
    That first couple months is the worst, I feel for you.
    I would tell her to pick a house ( and by pick tell her not your house) and get her the fuck out of there if you can.
    Is this much hatred normal?? Oh….oh yeah it is.
    You know what the shit sandwich is though? ( you’ll find this out) is that you will always hate her to some degree and even years later if you express hate toward her there are some( her especially) that will think you still have residual feelings for this person. Like, if you weren’t still in love you wouldn’t hate.
    So, after so many years are you supposed to stop hating the drunk driver that killed your child just because you went on to have another child?
    It’s INFURIATING.
    I hate him. I will never feel anything else for him….period.
    I do have residual feelings about him (5 years later? Yes I do….hate.
    Doesn’t mean I’m not happy in my life, but he’s evil.
    Ugh…

    • I don’t think it’s bad to feel negative emotions. Everybody needs to, and name them, otherwise you might get depressed. But there’s a difference between hate and despise. I sincerely no longer feel anger toward nobody but I despise and feel revolted by a few people.

      • The same here. I used to HATE him. But as time went on, I stopped hating him for several reasons: 1) It is a sin to hate. I hated him for at least two years. I didn’t like myself because of the hate inside me. Fortunately I was able to talk to a great priest and he helped me with mental exercises. 2) The Lord says that vengeance is His, not ours. Once I gave up wanting immediate vengeance and trusting God to do what He wanted (and not necessarily what I wanted), I was able to let most of the hate go. And 3) I realized that the hate was only hurting me. The dick could have cared less and may have even got a narcissistic thrill knowing that I was still hurting. It took at least 2 years (probably more) to get over the hate. But it does go away. I learned to forgive him, not for his sake but for mine. I learned that forgiveness is an act. It is not a feeling. I chose to forgive him by allowing God to do whatever He chooses and not what I would have chosen. But though I forgave, I learned that forgiveness does not require that you ever forget, or that you have to allow that person in your life again to potentially abuse you again. You can forgive and NEVER have anything to do with that person again. I’m 5.5 years out and I don’t hate him anymore. I don’t have any feelings for him personally except pity because he does not have the capacity to understand the value of a human being. He can only see a person in the sense of how can that person make him feel good about himself. That’s really sad. But it is no longer my problem. Hatred is perfectly normal especially in the very early stages. Like someone else said here, there’s no way that he can heal as long as the whore keeps traipsing back daily. But as soon as he can be free if her, he can start the healing process (No Contact). He needs to cut himself some slack for a while. His wound is gaping with continual reopening. I would recommend that after he takes all of CL and CN’s advice, that he is kind to himself. And… to pray for forbearance to get through a divorce. And also to place his trust in the Lord.

  • You will immediately get some relief when she is no longer in the house. This was true for me. Please try to make this happen ASAP. My D-Day was the same time as yours, and I am still dealing with bad emotions. It’s normal and justified and you deserved better. Please know you are not alone, and she’s the real loser. Seriously, get her physical presence out of your life ASAP.

  • I’m so sorry you are going through this. Married 30 years, two kids and submitting final papers to court. Hopefully divorced soon. Cheater used me the whole marriage as a maid to take care of everything, for my paycheck and hid money for his double life. After my kids told me he was cheating, I started lining up my ducks but needed to confirm the cheating. I put a GPS tracking on his car. I knew when he was at motel 6 with his slut and for how long. Tough but I needed this. Once I confirmed this, I detached, exercised, got support from CN, got my own bank account, read about disordered cheaters, etc. Got cheater to sign a MSA. I am taking on more debt than him but I get the home we live in, got lifetime alimony and I am taking out a life insurance policy to protect the alimony payments. I did aloft of work on myself while living with cheater. Lived with him over two years. He moved out over a year ago. This betrayal is a roller coaster of emotions but hang in there it does get better. Cheaters suck. They are selfish, entitled, empty souls, etc.

    • IndependenceSoon,
      You are my hero. Alimony for life! Man, I wish I had had a better lawyer. 30 years of marriage to his cheating ass should have been worth more than I got. But… I’m rid of him. So, there’s that.

      • Thank you very much. I did work with an attorney but had 3 meetings with dickhead. Second meeting he tried to play hard ball but I would not bite, we both walked away pissed. He threatened to do contested divorce. I let him cool down and started laying out the costs for a contested divorce. He agreed to meet a 3rd time to see if we could settle. He tried to low ball me. I told him he could pay a bunch of money to hear the judge tell him the same thing I was telling him. After an hour and forty one minutes, i got the alimony. A little less than i wanted. I took on more debt than dickhead but my main goal was to get alimony. Also the MSA indicates the alimony is non modifiable. Cheaters suck!

        • I am going through a divorce right now too. 22 years of marriage + 8 years dating, a lifetime. He moved our Sept 30th 2019, and moved in with his mistress on Nov1. He had everything planned… and I am still in disbelief of what I am going through.. I never saw it coming.. I am hurting so much, my 17 year old daughter is hurting, and my 14 years old son is hurting. He destroyed our family. I am devastated but am taking it one day at a time. He left saying that he was leaving to find himself. That he needed space. He said that he loves me and would never do anything to hurt me. He filed for divorce right before Christmas. I hired an attorney right after. Attorney created a Marital Agreement so that we would not have to fight it, as my husband said he would never leave me financially unstable. According to Florida after 17 years of marriage, I should get permanent alimony so that was written in the agreement. Husband does not accept it. Attorney said that “permanent” is only until he retires, and he is already 53. I have modified it to 20-years alimony, as I do not want to spend my children’s money (and mine) on Attorney fees and other fees to drag this on. I work, make good money but my husband makes double what I make, which makes him the one to pay for alimony. This is so hard. So painful. I do hate my husband sometimes, but then I think of our life together and the great memories of what we had, and feel bad about myself to hate him so much. I need to not think about him, but he will always be the father of my kids. They love him and he loves them. He has always been a great father, except now that he destroyed our family. He even mentioned to them a week ago, that he wishes that he and I remain friends, and that he would love to see us all go our for lunch or dinner together. What? I cannot believe this is happening. How can someone just switch his life like that?

  • I am wondering if it might be easier than normal to get her legally removed from your house if you are in an area on lock down. On the other hand, it could backfire if she is forced to just stay at your place and is prevented from seeing Schmoopie. That would be both emotionally painful and potentially dangerous other depending on her reaction.

    In the meantime try to avoid touching anything she touches as much as possible and wash hands often. Avoid being in the same room. All of that is to protect yourself both emotionally and physically. Maybe you can rig up a contraption to douse her in Lysol every time she walks in the house. Good luck.

  • Hasn’t, I had to get a court order to have mine thrown out. He said he couldn’t leave because he had nowhere to stay… Not my problem! Until then he came and went after I’d go to work, took showers, worked out, and was even eating the groceries I paid for until I put a stop to that. Since it took a couple months for the court order, I messed with him by unplugging the garage door several times so he couldn’t get in and blaming it on faulty wiring. Turned the water off, flip a breaker or two off, Spray painted a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood with the words cheater won’t leave and put it outside in the cul-de-sac for everyone to see. I certainly was not going to make it bearable for him to be there. Bad choices are a bitch and so was I!
    It’s hard to move on when they’re still in the picture like that, rubbing your nose in it. Sooner you get rid of her the faster you get to MEH. Hang in there, until then mess with her. wink wink

  • She sounds like my X. You sound like a good guy. Good guys finish last, especially in family court. The best advice I got was to strike while the iron is hot. Divorce her fast and aggressively. Kick her out. Get your daughter living with you. Protect her.

    Divorce her while she has visions of “happily ever after” fuckbuddy. News flash, any guy who will fuck a married woman is a piece of filth. Eventually she will see the truth about him and then its panic time. She will realize she fucked up big time (she will never admit it to you). Then she will fight like a banshee to claw every dime out of your cold dead fingers. I filed 2 weeks after D-Day. Divorced 1 year later. Unfortunately, it’s taken years to execute the decree and now she is dragging us back into court because she doesn’t like the deal she signed and fuckbuddy #6 is no better than the first 5 fuckbuddies.

    She is your enemy. She will not play fair. She will fuck you over. She will fuck her kids over. Ask me how I know. Let the hate flow through you. Go to the dark side. Once this is all behind you, then you can find the light again.

    • THIS. Follow this list.

      I would only make one amendment: “nice PEOPLE finish last”. I’m getting hosed in the divorce process cause I’m trying to be rational and reasonable and am not an entitled asshat. I also had to be the one to file, (see the cheater playbook) so judge sees it as my decision/choice and I’m not the victim so don’t ask for “extra”.

      F 50/50 states

    • Ditto on the comments that SHE IS IGNORING THE STAY AT HOME ORDERS. Of course they don’t apply to entitled whores so——- Anyway I believe she needs a legal ultimatum. Stay or go. That’s it. No waltzing in and out potentially keeping this virus alive while the rest of us potentially loose opportunities that will never return, and cancel special moments in life that are gone forever.

      Who the F does she think she is?!? And not a thought that she chased her own daughter from her own safe home. Weirdo. I volunteer to take a little weight of the hate off the OP here and take over for a moment. Grrrr. But in the end, the hate isn’t even worth it, she is just a very shallow, stupid woman and no sense letting her bring anyone else down.

      Hang in there.

  • The rage is perfectly normal. My divorce was final 3 weeks ago and I still go through feelings of rage. It’s been less than a year since we (me and kids) found out about the cheating. I totally agree with getting her stuff out. Every time you see her it reopens the wound. Not only the anger that she cheated on you but outrage at her sense of entitlement that she could even do this. When I first read your question I was reminded of the part about putting her shit in black plastic bags and leaving it for the raccoons. I pictured bagging it up and leaving it in a pile on the front porch. Let her to deal with it, not you.If she doesn’t like it, too bad.

    I hope that this ends soon so you and your daughter can get back to some semblance of normalcy. She’s blessed to have one sane parent. That’s you.

  • Rage is normal— it helps fuel you to action.

    It will pass. Once you go no contact and divorce you’ll be well on your way to “meh.” That’s a wonderful place where you are so busy living the life you’ve built that you no longer care what cheater is doing. I predict it will take 3 -5 years to get here. Meh is wonderful!

    Dday 12/27/14, married 25 years, 4 kids. Divorced 3/1/2017

  • The hate is vital. My d day was nov 2018. No reconciliation and we were divorced last year. Ex moved away leaving me with the 2 teens and the house after 25 years (he has since found a new chickie and had a baby).

    Hate got me my lawyer, a settlement I detailed and mylife back. And it’s gone now. The kids and I are happy and healthy and we all just consider ex disappointing. I know they are hurt, but they are thriving. They have no contact with their dad.

    I am at meh. Tuesday came.

    I even text with ex occasionally as we work together. I have the odd pang of what was, as I thought we were best friends, but I am deeply grateful he’s not here during this virus nightmare and economic instability. He would be a problem.

    I’m free. It took lots of anger, tears, pain, hurt. But I’m happy and content. You will be too. Use the anger to cut your toes, set clear boundaries and put you and your child first.

  • Btw…. that BoJo is proof they suck. He cheated on his first wife, married AP/OW Winters 12 days after the divorce. Cheated on OW many times and had an illegitimate child with one. Now he impregnated another AP 20 years his junior and is “engaged” even though he’s still married to OW-Winters. They both have Covid-19 and he’s in the hospital. Cheaters cheat and liars lie…. they NEVER change. Trust they suck!

    • But apparently he is still in charge from his hospital bed? I hope you all come out of this thing ok (and us here in the US too with the idiot in chief in charge).

  • CL is right on every point.

    I don’t recommend trying that hard to leave the mad stage because it feels a lot better than sad.

    I learned after Cheater died that he had been a long term serial cheater and the better part of 26+ years were riddled with lies and betrayal and I am so mad I sometimes forget what the sad even felt like.

  • Been there.
    We had “agreed” to separate, alternating weeks at home with teen sons. She asked me to take her weekend at home as she was going to be “away”. Sure, extra time at home with my sons. Of course! She would stop home Sunday night to pick up work clothes for the week.
    After realizing she was using me as the babysitter for her lost weekend with schmoopie, I had enough. A buddy came over and we moved all her clothes and dressers into the garage. No damage, everything hung on poles. (Kids saw none of this) Put a lock on the master bedroom door. Put the garage door opener on the counter with a note. I went out Sunday night to avoid her.
    When she came home she went ballistic, broke down the bedroom door and trashed my stuff. All in front of kids. When I got back she alternated between angry and weepy. I told her she needed to leave, I did not feel safe. She wanted to spend the night- no, go.
    I photographed the damage, asked my kids what happened and saw my attorney in the morning. He used the photos of the damage to get a 90 day restraining order, temporary custody and garnished her wages at the school for child support.
    Angry works both ways. It motivates action or gets you in deep shit. Depends how you use it.

  • I understand your not liking to be angry when you are not normally an angry person. At least your anger is justified and as others have said, it will pass. At least you are able to control it enough not to act out violently making trouble for yourself along the way. In the meantime, use it in legal ways as you are able to improve your situation.

    In my case it was catching glimpses of Schmoopie, with or without Ex that triggered feelings of rage in me. Intellectually, I knew she wasn’t the one to blame, but I couldn’t help those feelings. It bothered me a lot because I don’t normally hate people like that and it scared me. I was able to deal with it by just avoiding her and I was fortunate that I was able to do that. Those feelings eventually did fade. I still don’t like her or respect her and I still avoid interacting with her but I no longer have those feelings of rage at the sight of her. I also don’t have much respect for ex anymore but I am able to fake it to keep the peace and avoid trouble. Time really will heal that and you will eventually be back to your old self, but it won’t happen until you get her out of the house and are through the divorce. You will need to be patient with your feelings and in the meantime, use them in ways that will benefit you.

  • HASNT she prolly wouldn’t mind giving you a few cells of Coronavirus. She really wouldn’t mind if you died before the divorce was over and she got everything. Sorry, but that’s truly what these people think.

  • So here is something that I have often wondered about…

    Yes, I did all of these things. Once I saw the full breadth of who he was as a person, the extents he was willing to go to lie to me or misrepresent himself online, his incredible need for approval from anyone…I came to the same conclusion. Bad egg. Cry the tears and move on.

    But then…

    Then he kept showing up. Kept contacting me, kept trying to play nice. Always under the guise of “healing” or “making nice” in case we run into each other “especially in a professional setting”.

    This bullshit went on for 2 years. He even admitted in one of his emails “I have never had anyone hate me before and I don’t like the way it feels”.

    He couldn’t deal with the conclusions that I came to (about him being a bad egg) and he was doing everything he could to try to revise history by attempting to make nice.

    What do you make of that?

    • Image control. That’s all. A subset of ‘I Control You.’

      He’s lying about no one ever hating him before, by the way. He knows exactly what it feels like, because it’s happened before.

      People like this always have a track record; you just don’t know about it.

      It’s also related to hoovering – looking for a chink in your armour that will re-establish kibble flow.

      Do you/did you ever respond to these calls/texts?

    • I say, “Boo hoo! Somebody call the waaaaambulance!” Seriously though, it is STILL all about him. He wont change. And don’t bite.

  • I recall shaking with rage at the mere thought or mention of my cheater. The he managed to completely screw up his life with his new Schmoopie and with this latest world crisis, is definitely on the ropes. I feel a sense of schadenfreude.

    Mostly though, when I see his photo, it’s as though I never knew him. I feel so grateful he showed his true colours before he had a chance to take me down with him. Meh does come. It takes time, it takes valuing yourself, it takes forgiving yourself for being sucked into their vortex.

    Sometimes when we fall in love, we are blind to what a monumental jerk the other party actually is, even when all the signs are there.

  • Why the hell is she driving around in a pandemic? Are you in one of the states (I’m assuming you’re in the US) where no order has been given yet?

    Not only did the twatwaffle risk your health with an STD before, she could be the cause of the deaths of you and your daughter. It can take up to 3 weeks for the symptoms to show up and what if she gave it to one or both of you?

    See if your lawyer agrees that in this instance, Twatwaffle and her crap needs to be out of the house NOW. No access to a bathroom. No private bedroom and a closet.

    Got a front porch? Toss her clothes on it. Don’t change the locks jf that will land you in legal trouble, get a reinforcement lock instead for when you are at home. When you are there, use it on all the doors she could otherwise open with a key. Drop the bar on the sliding door if you have one.

    Stay home. Stay safe.

    Defender Security Satin Nickel U 10827 Door Reinforcement Lock

  • Thank you, Chump Lady, and fellow Chumpers for your support and words of encouragement. Since I contacted CL, the cheater has been busy moving out. Wednesday of this week, the movers will come and take away her things and put them in storage. She’s moving in with Schmoopie with only her clothes. So classy.

    Yes, the situation is different for those of you who wondered about the house. We’ve been in a domestic partnership for 20 years with the idea we’d marry on our 20th anniversary, which was this March, also my second D-Day. My lawyer told me I’d “dodged a bullet” by not getting married and the house and all my retirement, etc., are mine alone. We never mingled any of our assets or bank accounts thank the gods that be! I’ve been busy having all my beneficiary designations changed to solely my daughter.

    Once the cheater is out of my house this week, I have friends who will help me clean, paint, and rearrange (all within 6 feet of each other, of course). Then my daughter will return home. She doesn’t want to see her mother, but she’s agreed to talk to a counselor about her anger. I don’t think I could be objective enough, so I’m glad about that. In terms of custody, we have a co-parenting agreement already in place. But my lawyer pointed out that given my daughter’s age if she refuses to stay a part of her week with her mother, she won’t have to. If the cheater pushes it, a judge will have to become part of the process, and even though I want to protect my daughter from further trauma, I will stand up to this shit storm and stand with her in front of a judge. And of course, my daughter will be 18 in two years. At that point, she has total say in whether she chooses to allow her mother into her life.

    It’s interesting to watch the cheater scrambling in a panic now that she realizes she’s killed her mother-daughter relationship off and will never have a normal, healthy relationship with her. I don’t understand how she could think her actions wouldn’t affect our daughter as they have. She’s constantly texting her (and my daughter won’t answer), having her mother (my daughter’s grandmother) text (and again my daughter won’t answer), and sending her funny memes (which my daughter ignores).

    And, yes, my daughter is with my family right now.

    Needless to say, my friends and family are horrified and in total shock as there was never any indication this would or could happen. And as you all probably can suspect, the cheater’s friends and family are all about…well, no one’s to blame, we can’t help who we love, everyone deserves to be happy, you two can remain friends, maybe you shouldn’t have been such a boring person, such a dark person, so moody, etc. Yeah, f*ck that shit. As far as I’m concerned, my values of loyalty and compassion, honor and duty are not aligned with her selfish values nor her friends’ similar crap values. So it’s better, I know for all involved that she’s going to be out of our lives for the most part.

    Anyway, the hate has simmered down some, just as CL suggested it would. I’m mostly grossed out by her voice and presence and energy. I keep the post about “Trust That They Suck” open on my browser on my phone all the time and I look at the title of it every morning. My hope is that once she’s out this week, once my daughter is back home, that we can move forward and the hate will move to the back burner on a low simmer until it burns out and is replaced by pity.

    Thank you again, Chump Lady, and everyone else!
    HASNT

    • Can you try to get her stuff to a garage or porch so the movers don’t have to enter your home? I live with two immuncompromised relatives and this virus will probably kill them if they catch it. You don’t need a possibly lethal virus on top of everything else.

    • You’re doing great! Keep up the good work. It is true that the lesser the contact the more we can heal. There’s happiness to be had.

    • I speak from experience when I strongly urge you to find a licensed psychologist who specializes in children and teens for your daughter to begin seeing on a weekly basis. Hopefully you can interview two or three in your area. Once you’ve narrowed it down to two, have your daughter meet with each one and decide who she’s more comfortable with.

      You should fully expect A LOT of pushback from your daughter. She will insist she’s fine and that there’s not enough time in her schedule. Kindly ask her to humor you, that she can go and just sit there with the therapist if she doesn’t want to talk. I guarantee after a few months you will thank your lucky stars you have done this for your daughter. She has (and will have) so many issues that will arise that she will be grateful to leave in her therapist’s office. I would recommend doing this for at least a couple of years.

      These therapy sessions will be one of the greatest gifts you can give to your daughter. It will not only help with the feelings of dealing with her mother, but it will help her through any spillover issues she encounters as a normal teen. By learning to talk safely about issues with her therapist she will also become a better communicator with you. Plus, if your ex ever circles back to challenge the custody arrangement, you have the backing of a credible third party professional to advocate for your daughter.

      Please believe me that this is an important part of your family’s healing process. Again, I speak from experience on all that I mentioned above.

    • Thank goodness you never married! Now that your ex is moving in with Schmoopie, the not sneaking around excitement is gone. He may have relented to let her move in out of guilt, if so she will become annoying to him. In a nut shell this relationship will more than likely not last. Be prepared for her to come crawling back. Do not let her in, she showed you who and what she is and how little she cared for you and daughter.

  • Depending on the laws where you live you may not be able to keep her out of the house -util legal work is finalized. If that’s the case, demand several hours notice so you can be sure you are out of the house . Leave plastic gloves and a garbage can by the front door and a scarf she should put over her mouth if you don’t have masks .
    The idea of her stuff in the garage or storage is the best though- unless she’s one of those extremely €£¥^~|§…#@&* entitled types who will insist on her rights and come into the house .

    I’m still trying to get to that anger, still crying every day and it’s going on five months . Just sold the house in a pandemic, packing up, changing will and power of attorney… Who needs all this extra work because of someone else’s adolescent ‘happiness.’
    OK now I’m feeling a tad angry !

    • I get this 100%. I actually kind of envy the ability to get angry. It seems that rage/anger/hate gets you moving, gets shit done. I’m stuck in sadness; not crying every day but just a bone deep sadness that leaves me so unmotivated that I’m not taking care of business like I should. I’m completely in awe of you selling your house during this time and getting all the other stuff done, truly. And I’m so sorry you’re hurting.

      • Thanks TC, don’t be in awe, I actually had to take a leave of absence from work for a period because I couldn’t function properly. And I didn’t have a choice regarding the house etc. – shocking how life can go sometimes. And I know, re anger….. maybe we just aren’t wired that way? My therapist says it will come…. I get a tiny episodes of anger that morph into pain very quickly. Hmm…what does it mean? More reading required!

  • The hate is going to keep you focused and draw you away from any tactics she might try to deploy to get the divorce to go her way. Using any of the wilds she had used on you during your marriage is a common deceptive strategy , she do a hump and dump to get you to capitulate . No sir stay away from that shit. Fuel the hatred with a different set of mind movies (no violence ) remember the hurt she caused you but particularly hate what harm she caused your beautiful daughter . Let her know that she has joined The Loyal Order of Skanks . Make her feel scummy . Get yourself tested for diseases and framing it that way tell her you did . Get a large garden sprayer and even if it’s just water spray down the shower when she gets out and let her know your disinfecting it after each time SHE uses it. Get some toilet seat covers and keep them in plain sight. Treat her like the disgusting piece of trash she has become .

    • “Let her know that she has joined The Loyal Order of Skanks . Make her feel scummy . Get yourself tested for diseases and framing it that way tell her you did . Get a large garden sprayer and even if it’s just water spray down the shower when she gets out and let her know your disinfecting it after each time SHE uses it. Get some toilet seat covers and keep them in plain sight. Treat her like the disgusting piece of trash she has become .”

      Good Lord I freakin’ Love this way too much. I so wish I would’ve thought of doing it. Kudos.

  • Her waltzing in and out is putting your life at risk! This pandemic is no joke. Move all her stuff out ASAP. The storage locker. The doorstep. The street. Wherever. Just so long as she isn’t coming in to your home and risking your safety.

  • HASNT,

    Hate is an integral part of recovery from the emotional abuse of infidelity and helps to facilitate detachment. You are on the right path and your anger and disgust will keep you there. You have invested decades of your life in someone who used and abused you and you wisely have chosen to cut your losses. Your anger will dissipate over time and you will no longer be consumed by it, though the feelings of disgust and disappointment may persist. Stay strong.

  • So glad you’ve been able to get good info from your atty, and also that you’re not married to the Cheater.. Makes everything a lot simpler.

    Yeah, she can go somewhere else to wash and change clothes.

  • It’s true I went through the whole thing. I hated myself for how much I hate, but it will all blow over. It’s just as ChumpLady says, now I don’t hate anymore and I am back to myself. I just know that I’ve had a bad egg, Next.

  • The vast majority of my childhood was dominated by my parents’ decision to ‘stay together for the children.’

    DO.NOT.DO.IT.EVER.

    Don’t ever be tempted to do this, under any circumstances, for any reason or length of time. Please don’t consider doing it again, OP.

    I am now 55 yo and still disgusted at the implications of my very foolish parents’ decision. When they finally split, I had to parent the parent I was left with.

    Anyone reading this, please don’t justify continuing an unhappy, dysfunctional or otherwise abusive marriage by telling yourself it is better for the children. It isn’t. Kids are tough and they aren’t stupid – they’ll figure a way through. Trapping them in your dysfunction does just that – traps them in the misery you’re in. And they don’t get a voice …

  • Image control. That’s all. A subset of ‘I Control You.’

    He’s lying about no one ever hating him before, by the way. He knows exactly what it feels like, because it’s happened before.

    People like this always have a track record; you just don’t know about it.

    It’s also related to hoovering – looking for a chink in your armour that will re-establish kibble flow.

    Do you/did you ever respond to these calls/texts?

  • HASNT, get her the fuck out of the house and out of your life. I am so glad she’s taking her stink somewhere else. She comes and showers at your house then goes off to be with the person she’s cheating on you with? Right in front of you? Who the fuck does she think she is. No amount of soap and water will clean that skank. She’s garbage. Looks like the trash is taking itself out. Hang in there bud. Things will get better once she’s gone for good.

  • Hugs to poster.
    I feel you. This was me. Nothing but love. I never even knew I could feel such loathing and I hate that I hate.
    Try to go no contact ASAP. This is to allow you to start processing and to be in a good place for your daughter.
    I’ll never stop hating cheaters for the destruction they cause. But away from cheater I don’t feel like I’m selling myself short.
    Put some distance. Some of your disgust might be for yourself. When you see her for what she is and shift the responsibility where it needs to be the hate for the person you loved turns to pity and even a tinge of sadness. Bless you and your daughter. Makes me cry for some reason.

  • H, A few thoughts. Hate is a big part of grieving, and it tells you that you have been deeply wronged. You will feel it until you won’t. Use it to continue to propel yourself forward. You are doing many things right, so soon, and that is very mighty. Recognize that your values. are not shared. Know her choices weren’t about any thing you did. Trust she sucks. Keep putting your home in order. Focus on taking care of your daughter. One of the best things you can do now is to stay busy. Exercise, exercise, meditate 😁. I worked out for hours because it was the only way to balance my anger and shut off my brain. Focus on you (this shit hurts so extreme self care is a must) and having blue days are perfectly normal. Binge Netflix, listen to music, take a bath. Also recognize that living with a Cheater is unhealthy, even before Day my body was reacting to the toxicity that was living with the disordered. Recognize this. For many years each time I saw x I felt that fight or flight response. There are reasons for that. Lean on friends to process this, CL is a lifesaver and you can share here. Your daughter may need counseling. I told my children to prioritize their needs first and I supported that. Education was a big priority and then we began to travel and do new things together. Make new memories. Go no contact except for concerns re daughter. After Dday I quit texting/speaking with ex and communicated only though lawyer/email. I did not facilitate my children’s relationship with their father, that was now entirely on him. One other thing, be sure to never place yourself in harm’s way. Pay attention to your gut. I knew that even though x wanted his new life he was going to try to make mine miserable. He spent the next two years trying to destroy me. I had to be on my game. So be safe. One last thought, be careful not to beat yourself up for believing…. My life now has only grown more beautiful, it was never all that with x, even though we had it all, he was living a lie, and I felt that. I didn’t recognize how living with someone so disordered was taking all my joy away. My best wishes on your journey forward.

  • I’m glad it’s ok to be intensely angry because I hope my ex gets Covid. Actually, no I don’t because he’d spread it to a whole lot of innocents. Plus, he’d probably survive and I’ll never hear the end of how fucking heroic he is.

    Yeah, I’m angry.

  • Wow our stories are almost identical: together 24 years, domestic partnership, I owned the house (still do), she left to be with her AP, left me and our daughter who was 17..etc etc. I can say 6 years later the emotions have calmed down, I’m pretty happy being single and enjoying both my kids (adults now) and 2 yr old grandson. My ex on the other hand has a strained relationship with both kids, they refuse to vacation or do holidays with her and her idiot, I’ve seen the texts on my daughters phone where she was almost begging her to go away for 4th of July with her and AP and she refused as did our son. So in some ways this is karma or just her stupidity thinking she can recreate our holidays with the kids just using someone else to replace me. I’m grateful my kids were older when this all happened, I didn’t have to coparent or anything. Your daughter is about the same age, she’ll be able to make her own mind up. Sometimes I wonder if my ex regrets it but honestly I don’t think she does, their brains work differently. Her mother was disordered too so thinking about my twisted ex and her AP quarantined in their shitty apartment on the busiest street in town makes me chuckle lol.,

  • HASNT,

    Document this coming and going during a pandemic stay-at-home order (or suggestions, based on whether you are blessed with a good governor or not). Document that you sent your child away. You do not want to share 50/50 custody with someone who would put you and your daughter at risk.

    I agree with those who say put her stuff out and tell her she can’t go back and forth during this dangerous time. Once she’s out of your home and your day-to-day life, you can start working on eliminating her from your thoughts.

  • There is a lot of good advice given here already about how to go about getting the ex out of the house as she’s being unsafe.

    However, in the meantime, she legally has access to the marital home. But you can put some strict boundaries around that.

    Designate a room in the house where she is now expected to go. All her stuff goes there. Put a lock on your bedroom door with a key. She is not to access that room. It’s your safe haven to get away from her if she decides to linger. Put all valuables into that room (or get it out of the house entirely). Provide her with some notice from your lawyer that informs her that you are starting a legal separation and put a timeline on it for when she is expected to be out of the house. Tell her to start packing her things. Draw up a list of the items in the house for discussion of what she’s taking and what you are keeping, so that she doesn’t suddenly clean out the house on you some time that you are not there.

    Best wishes.

  • And yes, intense hatred is normal in the early stages, then in flashes later on.

    In the beginning, I used to wish that my ex would be in a car accident and die. I would fantasize about how much better my life would be if he was just gone. Now the kids are young enough to not understand fully what he did and they love their daddy. So, realistically I woudn’t want them to suffer his death.

    But it felt good to imagine his death by a thousand cuts in the meatime.

  • We get you HASN’T, you are not alone, this is such a violation and hurts so bad!

    “As long as she’s waltzing in and out of your home for a change of clothes every day, you’re going to feel off-balance. Why not move all her crap out in one go? Tell her it’s no big deal and life will continue with minor adjustments.

    Consider a storage locker. Move all her stuff into one and pay the first month’s rent. She can come and go from Pack ‘N Shit at her leisure.”

    THIS! The more distance, the less the triggering.

  • After our first D-day we went in for counseling. The guy was an absolute waste but when things started to go back to somewhat normal I thought we had healed. In retrospect it was me that had done all the work, scheduling counseling, etc.

    I thought, “Surely, no one would do this a second time.”

    Flash forward a year later we’re in a new city in a new home and she had found herself a new shmoopie only this time had left our family.

    These people don’t deserve second chances. They don’t actually change.

  • I think hatred is a natural response to people who are the opposite of yourself in terms of morals and values. I loved my xw for 20 years, now I hate her with a passion. She did things I would never expect from the worst bad guy in a movie. Hatred is your core self telling you that that person is not good, and you need to stay away from them. You need to separate yourself as much as possible. Not easy when you share children, I know. Only time will allow you to separate yourself from her completely and reach ‘meh’. I’m also counting down – maybe 5 years to go.

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