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What Advice Would You Give a Serial Cheater?

Dear Chump Lady,

What advice would you give a serial cheater?

I broke my family, lied to those closest to me, and mentally and emotionally abused the man that I had pledged my life to.


Dear Veronica,

Accept the consequences of your behavior.

Before we get into the particulars though, ask yourself — as a person struggling with entitlement, and crushing people closest to you — why out of all the corners of the Interwebs, would you choose to ask ME for advice?

I’m the person who planted her flag in a distant galaxy far from the Reconciliation Industrial Complex. And created a safe chump space. Which questions the entitlement of cheaters, like yourself. So, it takes some chutzpah to send me your sadz.

You used a chump. Hey, why not find a few more? If you’re curious on our perspective, you could ask that guy you abused. But maybe he’s too busy filing divorce papers right now.

Gosh, Tracy, you’re awfully mean. Veronica may have washed up on your shores with an honest desire to improve herself and do better! 

Well, let’s do a couple litmus tests on the remorse.

What advice would you give a serial cheater?

Divorce. You broke it. Repeatedly. You aren’t owed anything.

If you’re sorry, accept the consequences and don’t push back against your husband’s boundaries. He gets to have them. You can express your regrets with a fair settlement.

I broke my family,

Their pain matters. Your impression management doesn’t.

So, drop your concerns about How All This Looks for YOU. Don’t malign the guy you dragged through hell. Don’t blameshift this on to hormones or midlife crisis or Mercury rising.

You did the cost-benefit analysis on screwing around, and your ego won. You risked the pain it would cost them. So, own it.

lied to those closest to me,

You’re not entitled to their trust. Own that too. They may not trust you for a long time, if ever. They’ll have to integrate “serial cheater” into what they know about you, and it will be incredibly painful for them, to think of all the times you lied to their face.

Don’t get a contact high off their pain. (I matter!) You weaponized their vulnerability and the love they had for who they thought you were.

and mentally and emotionally abused the man that I had pledged my life to.

Well, Veronica, he gets to take his life back. You aren’t owed another minute of it.

You’ll notice I didn’t do any deep dive of introspection on you — woe! why are you this way! whatever can be done?! — that’s because a) I refuse to give you the raw materials for more mindfuckery and b) I don’t care.

You did it because you could. And you enjoyed it. (Ergo, second, third, fourteenth helpings.)

If you were expecting a discourse on monogamy, not going there either. You could cheat in an open relationship too. You’ve got an “I abuse people” problem, which has nothing to do with the number or sequence of your boyfriends.

Go and sin no more.

That’s all I got.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Not to mention putting his health at risk. You took a good person and crushed him and damaged your family. If you have children, they will know one day what kind of person you are. They will either hate you for it or immitate your behavior and crush someone they care about. An caring person does not do that. Realize you are selfish and immature. The scum of the earth. Grow up, fix yourself before getting involved with another person taking a risk with you.

  • Veronica, if you have an ounce of sincerity in you, then if your husband wants to divorce you, don’t fight him on it. Be generous and amicable, even if he hates your guts, because that’s his right. Do everything you can to make his life easier without any expectation that he will come back.

    If your husband doesn’t want to the divorce you and is desperate to reconcile, you do the right thing and divorce HIM. Give him a golden parachute out of the marriage to make it as easy as possible. Because let’s be honest… you might be a good girl for a few weeks, months, maybe even a year or a few years. But eventually you’ll get to that comfortable spot when your husband stops being vigilant and you will be back at it again.

    I do think it’s possible for you to change, by the way… I just don’t think it’s possible to change right now or for this person.

    • She can’t change for her husband. Why? Because she KNOWS she got away with crap, and when she’s no longer remorseful, she’ll just crap on him again. She needs to be honorable and allow this man his freedom to get on with his life and possible find someone who isn’t so selfish. But she’s not honorable. She’ll beg, plead, (maybe ask forgiveness), and then she’ll just do it all again. Please leave, Veronica. Don’t cause anymore pain so that those that you hurt get a chance to heal.

  • Sadly there will be no justice as justice would be tying you to a stake, setting you on fire, the fire wouldn’t go out and you wouldn’t die. That’s what being cheated on feels like. I am not assuming you care. And you are not a good parent. Good parents do things to protect and strengthen their families.

    Now go away and stay in your lane with other cheaters/losers like you.

    • PS…

      Stay away from anyone with children because they are the most vulnerable and innocent victims of cheaters. The cruel and catastrophic lifelong damage suffered by children caught in the crossfire of self-centered idiots like you is the thing that makes me the angriest.

  • Dear Veronica:

    Move to a small, isolated village in another country and devote yourself to caring for the poor. Never contact your family again because you are poison.

    Send us a postcard in 20 years and let us know how it all worked out.

    P.S. It doesn’t matter what anyone says because we all know you are going to do the next selfish thing, and the next. No matter who you hurt.

  • Leave that poor bastard alone! Get away from him so his heartbreak can start to heal. How dare you attempt to pollute the healing process that only can Come from someone’s inner peace by trying to flip some bizarre narrative to the ” poor me ” premise . Creatures like you have no idea what kind of long term damage you leave in your wske. I’ve been fucked up for 30 years and many in my orbit over that time have been scrutinized and held at arms length because of my long ago trauma . Imagine doing your household budget for 30 years always having to figure in individual therapy costs! I live a good life don’t get me wrong however in terms of relationships I have a cuticle now that doesn’t allow me to fully trust the way a good partner should . That’s fucked up!

    • They truly don’t have any idea what the damage will be. My STBXW cheated and cheated with multiple men. I’ve lost my home, my family, my marriage, my little girl who is under ten years old is in therapy and self harms from the divorce and fall out, I’ve held my son many times when he cries over me having to leave the home and wishing mummy and daddy would be back to normal and a multitude of other major fall outs from her cheating. My STBXW is now having a meltdown over the thought of me dating other women. Funny how she never thought about my reaction to her fuking all around her whilst married.

      • It’s not that they don’t know the damage they have done. It’s just not significant to THEM.

      • My serial cheater XW had a MELT DOWN when I started dating after the divorce. Called me selfish and only thinking of myself. Blows my mind that they can cheat but I can’t move on!

        • My STBXW screamed at me about how any other women I date are just whores and sluts and how she hates them. This from the woman who cheated with over a dozen people in the space of a few months.

        • Same with my ex, he didn’t really accuse me of being selfish; but he slammed my date as being “too old for me”. I had been asked out by men who were my age, but they didn’t appeal to me.


          I was 41 and quite attractive and he was stuck with the tubby slag. But hey they were in luv and he still had his thrills, so don’t know why it bothered him.

          • I think it’s because they want to be the star of our show. They want us for pick me dance and kibbles. They rejected us in the cruelest manner and yet somehow we should not move forward and meet non shitty people.

            • ????

              Yep, I have said before, he didn’t want me or value me; but he did want to keep me destabilized and pining for him. Sorry FW, you substantially overvalued yourself.

              If I could have bought him for what he was worth and sold him for what he thought he was worth; I could have walked away a wealthy woman.

              • ‘ Sorry FW, you substantially overvalued yourself.´
                And we substantially overvalued them.

        • Sort of demonstrates the abnormal psych axiom that part of the reason abusers abuse is because they grew up with the false binary that the world is filled only with victims and perps, nothing in between, and so it goes that it’s better not to be the victim.
          The idea is that subjecting others to the worst punishment imaginable is meant to be like a protective talisman against the same treatment or a protection against *caring* when one is inevitably betrayed. Preemptive revenge.

          I guess we should all feel grateful if FWs didn’t grow up with ax murderers and cannibals.

      • First off, I’m incredibly sorry how hard your children are taking it and that it is falling disproportionately to you to tend to their emotional needs. I really wish cheaters could understand that they harm everyone in the family, not just the spouse when they cheat. I had many conversations with STBXH on this and he would always get soooo offended when I dared suggest that the kids were being hurt by this too.

        And it’s not surprising that your XW would be horrified at the thought of you dating. You belong to her but she’s a free agent. The world always revolves around the cheater. Before he moved out of the house, FuckWit told me he was still in love with the OW and was going to try getting back with her if it was an option. We discussed our wishes for introducing the kids to significant partners and wanting to wait until it was serious. I added (since I could see him believing “oh but we are super serious”) that I wanted to wait until the divorce was finalized as well so the children wouldn’t be further confused. First off, he was horrified at the prospect of me dating. He really hadn’t put much thought into the idea that if he could find someone else then I could too. And second, he took the kids to her house the first week he had them.

      • I am so so sorry about your little girl self harming! I’m glad she is in therapy. I self harmed with my own hands a couple of times during this pandemic. Besides therapy, learning TIPP skills and visiting the site was helpful. In particular, putting an ice pack on my face for a few minutes or using the ice water technique helps calm down severe emotional pain to a level that is a little more manageable.

      • So true and so sorry to hear. My little girl was also self-harming with scissors and knives until I told her the reason for the separation.

        Last week, I was accused of presenting a welfare threat to my daughter by her new teacher who sent written communication headed as such to cheater and myself. It was solely based on the grounds of my daughter saying her parents broke up as a result of a dishonesty by her father.

        My daughter was also given a talk about how she should feel instead and how I would feel about cheater in a few years (BFF,ya know) but doesn’t buy the propaganda.

        My advice to all chumps: try and get the communication about cheating on record, preferably with a child psychologist, beforehand.

        To Veronica, Victoria or whatever your name is, just tell your kids what horrors you inflicted and GTFO

        • I also have had to deal with being a potential threat. The school reported to social services about potential domestic in the home after I caught all the cheating. I was then removed from my home based on zero evidence other than the kids had witnessed us arguing and shouting. Was even arrested and that proved zero evidence, no witnesses, not substance. As a man I’ve been subjected to pure discrimination. It appears not to matter one iota that my STBXW was cheating with over a dozen people and the physical abuse she inflicted on me or how she destroyed our family, nope, I’m the male so I’m automatically the one to point the finger at. Social services did not even come and speak to me to listen to what the situation was. I’ve tons of evidence of her cheating but it seems they don’t care at all. If you’re a female you’re automatically the victim.

          Social worker spoke individually to the kids. I’ve never even spanked my kids for being naughty. Always been a good father. Kids even said Daddy is very gentle and loving and is always there for them. Social services stated I pose no risk at all to the kids but I’m banned from being around my ex. So do married people not argue and shout when large scale adulterous behaviour is discovered?

          Sorry to hear about your little girl also self harming at the time, it’s an awful thing to know they are suffering so bad. The kids know my STBXW cheated. They just don’t know the sheer amount of it. My little boy last night before bed asked why mummy had to ruin our little family. It just hurts.

          • “If you’re female, you’re automatically the victim.”

            This is a slap in my face. My story is so similar to yours that I took a screenshot for reference.
            I have a folder for screenshots of other people’s stories. I go there when I am hurting and need to balance my perspective.

            I am a woman. I lost everything. Everything. My house, my marriage, my family, all my savings and all my income. I had quit my career to raise our children. Because the paychecks were in his name, he apparently had the right to get deep into debt behind my back, debt for which I am now responsible).

            I know this isn’t the Pain Olympics. I know men get treated unfairly, get screwed, get the families they love taken away from them. This is NEVER O.K. and needs to stop.

            every time I hear “The courts always give primary custody to the mother” I want to scream and shoot sharp quills from my back like a porcupine.

            This wife appliance (me) got uppity, so Wasband threw her in the dump like a broken toaster. Funny thing is, conditions in the dump are actually better.

            Thank you. My heart feels a thousand pounds lighter from articulating all that. Thank you CLYNLT for being a catalyst. Please tell me if anything I have written has hurt you.

            *Fist-bump of Solidarity*

  • CL, you were too kind.

    If a serial cheater asked “what advice would you give me?” my answer would be “I have nothing to offer you. You have zero empathy. You have zero ability to self-assess. You are only asking this because you want more attention (kibbles). If you really wanted help, you’d seek it through real hard work in therapy and not harrass other victims of this abuse. And even through therapy, I doubt you’d be serious about or capable of change. You are broken and proud of it. Good luck.”

    • I get letters from OW all the time. I think that they sincerely believe I will help them. Such is the entitled thinking.

      • We can notice that all Veronica asked for is advice for HERSELF. There’s not a scintilla of remorse or concern for the people she hurt. The whole second sentence {“I broke my family…”) sounds sort of like a cheater humble brag.

        • I don’t believe this is a cheater asking. They don’t care, by definition.

          This could be a chumped person asking how to control a cheater…. you can’t. But most of us almost died trying.

      • Also, it gives us a chance to virtually slap a FW around a bit. Most of us can’t do that in real life, though I guess some have.

    • Normal letters to Chump Lady are long and heart-wrenching. The writers are absolutely gutted. Overcome with emotions. Racked by doubts. Blame themselves for things that weren’t their fault to begin with.

      This letter is chilling in its utter lack of emotion. You’d think it was written by a piece of cardboard, if cardboard could type.

      • “This letter is chilling in its utter lack of emotion. You’d think it was written by a piece of cardboard, if cardboard could type.”

        ???? Laffs! from Cardboard’s STBXW

        …Unless self-righteous indignation is considered an emotion…CN???

        Somewhat off-topic, but did anyone else’s FW lose all grasp of contractions the minute they found out you were divorcing them? As in, “I will no longer accept that you do not appreciate everything that I have done for you.”

        • Yes. When a loser has nothing of substance to work with, they fall back on tactics (like elevated language) and hope you won’t notice there’s nothing beneath the surface. Impression management is all they have. These people are empty shells.

  • Every one of us is here for being lied to or used at some point. My husband “tries” to show me he’s a “good guy”. He can be a nice person. he’s generous and sometimes thoughtful. The problem is- he’s now created doubt for me and everyone who cares about me. And that’s in everything. Mi now question simple questions. It’s insane. He probably loves you. You might love him in your own way. But it’s over.
    We’re over here dying a slow death. I do not recommend
    Exit stage left, it’s for the best

    • Thank you for your post, Shann. I’m sorry you’re in a situation that sounds so painful. Strength to you.

  • You’ll never trade up, so find something else to do that doesn’t threaten to destroy people’s lives.

  • It just never ceases to amaze me, that cheaters and OW would actually write to CL. WTF? Really, what do they expect to be told? ????????????

    I suppose they just don’t bother to read flagship statement.

    • And as MichelleShocked notes, even negative kibbles are better than none.

      Get lost ‘Veronica’.

      • I find your responses hilarious and spot-on Chumpnomore6! Thanks for making me laugh every week-

  • Ok, but seriously, the advice is, leave all relationships and go to therapy. What’s broken in you should not be in anyone else’s life.

    You have nothing good to offer any other person in relationship. That would take many years of treatment, a plan that is likely to include medication (because serial cheating is pathological behavior).

    Leave the relationship, offering whatever financial repair you can to counteract the damage you have already done and what will occur as the result of the split, and go get diagnosed and treated without adding any more new people to your life.

  • This brings to mind an expression: “The problem with the center of the Universe is that it’s so crowded.” Veronica, give him whatever he wants/needs for a settlement, then leave him alone. For you, perhaps a spiritual retreat somewhere in Tibet where you cannot speak or contact or otherwise inflict pain on anyone ever again?

  • Oh no Chumplady – why are you giving a narcissist kibbles by publishing their letter? I know it’s not a rookie mistake because you’re not a rookie. I’m chalking it up to Monday morning and not enough caffeine!

    • I think it is ok Onward.
      I think this actually helps chumps because it gives insight into the mindset of the cheater. If, against all odds, there is sincerity in this question (which I doubt) the case is laid out in CL plain-speak about how to proceed further. If this cheater is just the kibble-seeker we suspect, then the record is laid out for a future cheater who may actually be open to some honest introspection. The damage to the chump and family is done and if CL can shine a light on how a truly repentant cheater should move forward then it is worth a few free kibbles to the rest of the entitled crowd.

  • A fuckwit that reaches out for advise from CL and CN is only looking for ways to further manipulate the people she abused. Veronica, you are a fuckwit. Peddle your shit somewhere else.

  • My advice?

    Pack up your shit, drive off. When you get to the end of the continent? Keep driving.

    What a clueless f*ing moron. Life is such a beautiful rich pageant. You wasted the invitation. God help you,

  • It may be time to bring back big scarlet As as a fashion statement. Nathaniel Hawthorne may have been on to something. Truth in advertising, and all that.

    But seriously, I would love to be able to introduce her to my ex husband. It sounds like they were made for each other!

    • Love this! Can’t tell you how many times I’ve wished I could paint a big scarlet “A” on OW’s car…

  • I kind of wonder if this is a real poster or just writing to CL for some strange reason. I’m not seeing a lot of these types say – that’s me – serial cheater here. I’ve been horrible – serially – what can I do? If it is a real poster, they need a shrink.

    • Some of them really like to brag. My ex bragged about being the biggest narcissist. Yep. That was accurate.

  • Be and stay single, Veronica.

    There’s I nothing wrong with sleeping around, with opposite/ same sex people, with single/ plural persons etc. but if you’re a serial cheater, committed relationships aren’t for you. Just continue to hook up with like-minded individuals and leave people who want permanent arrangements alone.

    • The problem is that they want both. They want family life–although they don’t want to do the work–AND they want the thrill of the new. (And the thrill of the new is enhanced by the fact they are duping their spouses.)

      • They are absolutely thrilled by the dupers delight.

        I remember specifically (in hindsight) when my FW came in from some political event and said; hey if you get any calls about me screwing around, there are some political enemies out there who want to cause trouble for me. I can remember exactly the excitement in his look and voice. In real time, I even thought how odd, I think it is even possible I felt a tingle of suspicion; but I spackled. Talk about a stupid stupid chump.

        This was about six or seven months before Dday with quick discard.

  • Cheaters are accustomed to successful image management and many have succeeded in conning friends, coworkers, family, etc. into believing their post-discovery narrative. Writing to CL may be just another tactic to demonstrate their “genuine remorse” or maybe they hope to get a message or some kind words to use as a weapon against their chump.
    They’re fakers–they have to be to cheat and to get away with cheating. And they’ve been so successful at conning us for so long, with such ridiculous excuses, that they probably think they can get away with it here and con CL, too.

  • I got the questions from both ex’s, “Is there nothing I can say or do to convince you to forgive me?” The answer is a simple NO. In any relationship there are compromises, and forgiveness, and decisions to proceed without completely cleaning up a particular mess. But with a serial cheater, it is already evident that he/she will never stop. When you find out the first time, you want to believe it was a mistake and they are sorry. You want to believe their remorse will drive them to be a better person. Eventually you figure out “the first time” is only the first time you know about. There are some personal habits that are ingrained. They are addictive behaviors, and the truth is the cheater/liar/thief/abuser doesn’t really want to stop. They want the consequences to stop. They want you to look at them with the eyes you had at the beginning of the relationship, not the eyes of knowing you now possess.

    I am not saying it is impossible to change bad behaviors. I have changed many of my own bad habits. The difference is I wanted to do it for myself, not to sway another person. For example, I changed many of my eating habits because I learned I was pre-diabetic. I still crossed the line to become type 2, but so far, I am able to control my disease and keep my A1-C level well below 7. If anyone thinks this is easy, especially for someone who was raised in a family where food represented love, I challenge you to a reality check. The point is I would still love to eat anything I want to with no consequences, but I choose to love myself enough and take care of myself, so I restrain my desires. I choose. I do not do this for my image. I do this for my health. I do not seek praise, or forgiveness from another person. I do this to live.

    When you step away from a serial cheater, you are choosing to live. You don’t need my praise, but I admire your choice anyway. I know how hard it is to overcome a bad habit!

    • I was thinking about this myself today, how “giving up chocolate” for now involves saying “NO” to myself. That’s actually a good thing to practice–saying no when temptation to do something self-destructive comes calling. It shouldn’t even require a thought, however, when other people are involved.

    • I mean, I didn’t kill him, or even punch him in the face, so I’d say he should call that a win and walk away with the spoils of that victory while he can. ????

    • You hit the nail on the head, Portia. It’s certainly true of all the cheaters I know that they just want the consequences to stop, without denying themselves anything of consequence.

      And to Veronica: you forgot to mention physical damage to your spouse. I was just diagnosed with type-2 diabetes like yours, Portia. I was pre-diabetic for only a year. I believe the reason I crossed the line so much earlier in age than expected – and earlier than other members of my family – is because I’ve been swimming in toxic stress hormones like cortisol for 2 years now, since D-Day #2, after having marinated in them for a while. This is one reason why Veronica’s STBX deserves a better-than-fair settlement: you have likely given him not just expensive mental health impacts, but you’ve probably taken years off his life, physically. So make amends to the best of your ability, without asking anything of him ever again. (PS: amends do NOT include begging him for forgiveness, or making him deal with you in any way at all, beyond pure childcare logistics.)

  • Veronica,

    “I broke my family, lied to those closest to me, and mentally and emotionally abused the man that I had pledged my life to.”

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk is cheap. You clearly want absolution. You expect pity. This is a typical cheater ploy. We chumps know it all too well. Cheaters whine, “But I confessed and am sad. Pity me and give me a get-out-of-jail-free card. Where’s my balm?” And what could be better than some soothing aloe from the great CL herself. No.

    Just sit with the pain you’ve caused and know that the people you’ve hurt are in pain every day.

    Go forth and sin no more.

    Continue to have sex with as many partners as you want (if that floats your boat) but make sure none of the participants is married. Get STI checks frequently. And please wait until after the pandemic to engage in behavior that could hurt other people, including front-line workers and the grandmother of one of your latest sex partners.

    Don’t seek kibbles or anything from your partner. Leave him alone.

    If you haven’t already done so, give him whatever he wants in the divorce.

    See a therapist.

    Oh, and maybe do good in the world.

  • Dear Veronica,

    Just die.

    Sincerely (based on how I know the crushing black hole of agony you inflicted on your husband),
    Now I Know What Hell Looks Like

  • This letter is so odd and undefined. “What advice would you give a serial cheater” on what? How to stop doing what she’s doing, how to continue but hide things better, how to pot a plant, how to establish a unicorn breeding stable? What does she want? Does she actually want to do something constructive about this?
    It always amazes me how these people are good in pretending that the situation they’re in is not the result of their decisions (excluding things that are really out of a person’s control, such as illness, war or a similar kind of crisis).

  • Uhm, get the F* away from decent people like the person you chumped? Walk away empty-handed, stay away, let them heal from the tornadic damage you did to every aspect of their life? Go live in a cave far away from anybody who might tempt poor little you to reel them in with your lies and gaslighting?

    I’ve got nothing. If you are sincere, support the chump-lady, knowing how much she helps people like the ones you deliberately injured. And, for God’s sake, be anonymous in your donation. You are good at keeping secrets, so keep that one, too.

    Leave your ex-family alone. You are poison to them, regardless of how “saintly” you become in the future,

  • “Go and sin no more.”
    Jesus is recorded in the Book of John as having said this to the woman caught in adultery after having sent away her accusers. She had been clearly set up by the men, but never claims innocence. Jesus says to sin no more, perhaps indicating some culpability for the adultery. Who knows of her circumstances?
    To me, he is telling her that her past is forgiven, but her future is hers to own.
    Leave your old life behind and make better choices.
    Just like CL says.

    • The Old Testament states that “a dog will (always) return to its vomit ???? “
      Yeshua knew this as well

  • leave the husband alone and be an attentive caring mother to the children forever supporting the betrayed spouse in whatever he wants for the children. Show up for the kids. Life is hard enough and people need to feel loved by their parents even if that parent is worthless human being. Other than that GFY.

  • Veronica, you aren’t going to fix your relationship with “the man you pledged your life to”.
    Let it go, give a more than generous settlement, move on and from this day forth be open and honest about your inability to be faithful.
    When you write your profile, include the fact that infidelity will always be part of the package that is you.

  • Well stated, Chump Lady!! She also really needs to read “Parents Who Cheat” by Ana Nogales, if she really wants to wrap her head around how she has completely fucked up the lives of her children, too. Oh wait, never mind… serial cheaters are too damn entitled to care about others, what was I thinking??

  • Veronica,
    I wonder if you’re fishing for a sense of significance by stirring up a reaction on this site. I’ll think positively, and assume that your Ex husband must be doing as well as can be expected because he knows enough to ignore you (no contact).

    You have an opportunity here. Don’t bury your impulse toward self reflection here. As you age, you’ll have this opportunity less and less. Age is unkind to somatic narcissist & other varieties of cheater, especially women. If you could do one small thing right, try not to destroy your children. Try to think of their welfare, and fight self absorption. If you need motivation – Do you want to die alone & despised? Manipulation will back fire big time eventually.

    But there’s another reason for your question. It’d be the MO of many serial cheaters to be enraged when their chump ignores them. Did you want to get back at him for ignoring you? Do you get vindictive pleasure from the thought that you scarred him forever? Do all the chump stories here make you feel important? The good news is that fishing for attention here is one of the less harmful ways for you to seek revenge. Good news for chumps at least.

    • The wanting attention from the chump…

      In the beginning I just thought, “well if I can just get my husband to stop seeing the OW then all will be well.” I am only now beginning to peel away all of the disordered thinking that cheaters have that leads to the actual cheating. At one point after I had discovered the affair I was just going about my daily business of working full time while handling the entire household and he had the audacity to say to me, while in tears, “it feels like you don’t even want me around anymore.” Like wtf? Don’t you have a girlfriend you can go cry to? The entitlement is enraging. That they deserve the attention of a devoted spouse that they drop all their shit on AND have someone on the side that gets all the good parts.

        • FW has tried picking the stupidest fights with me during separation. Basically still trying to dump shit on me and have me feel sorry for all of the things that have gone wrong in his life since he moved out. I.don’ Again, cry to your girlfriend. Apparently it’s super mean to tell STBX to keep things just about logistics (especially the kids) and in writing so there’s something to refer back to.

          • Mine was the same damn way. Boo frickin hoo.

            They’re all the same.

            Funny, I just remembered tonight how my then STBX complained that he and his AP had to borrow a friend’s son’s bed that was held together by hockey sticks. What? I was supposed to feel sorry for him? You can’t make this up.

            Also, go to IKEA. He was a wealthy doc. Cheap bastard. He wanted people to feel sorry for him. “Please lend me a bed. Does anyone have a towel?” Mind you, he rented a very expensive apartment, but it was smaller than our home, which I was living in. So square-footage-wise he was suffering. SUFFERING!

            The proximate cause of all this (namely the affair) was lost on him.

            • Lololol, hockey sticks? I hope the lending family never actually wanted that bed back.

              Cheaters are incapable of taking responsibility. If they were, I doubt they would be cheaters in the first place.

      • Yes, this. I feel like we should have a Friday post to share the sad sausage stories – specifically towards the divorcing spouse.

        I emailed my exH multiple times when he started to go down the pity route that he needed to go speak to his AP about his problems now. I am not that person anymore. That tended to shut him down. He never responded except for the last email chain in which he simply said “Well I don’t want you anymore either. The feeling is mutual.” Seriously, THIS was the supposed lightbulb moment for him? ????‍♀️ No contact finally came soon after.

        • It does seem to be crazy common for the cheating spouse to get angry at the divorcing spouse regardless of who actually initiated the separation.

          Also, given your screen name, are you in medical school or grad school? Either way, best of luck!!

      • “it feels like you don’t even want me around anymore.”
        Pure projection.
        UBT: I don’t want to be here anymore. I’m going to mope around so I can blame you when you’re not moved by how cute I am when I’m petulant. It’s your own fault if you aren’t dazzled by my glory.

        Yeah I’ve got one of those. It’s not cute.

  • I’d add that you need to do a number of things to mitigate the harm you have done and will do to your husband and your children.

    1. Get tested for all STI infections you may have and passed along to your husband. Share the results with him.

    2. Confess your infidelity to him. All names, dates, etc.

    3. Move out, take just your clothes and personal items.

    4. Divorce him. No vagueness from me about “generous settlements.” Sign over ALL marital assets to him. Money, property, all of it. Refuse any spousal support.

    5. Give up your children to him. Pay child support. Only have contact with the kids after they and you have had family counseling that addresses your failings as a mother and wife.

    6. Have no contact with ex-husband but for coordinating visits with your children.

    One more thing.

    Apologize to your husband directly even if he he furious with you. Assign not blame to him or any other thing/person/situation.

    • Never will happen with a serial cheater. They are entitled to destroy you for divorcing them.

    • Brother Jim…

      That’s a nice wish list. Mine would say Dear God Let my children live healthy spiritual lives.

      Tracy’s audiobook just played again in my head about how WE ALL wanted our FWs to crawl…groveling, with rivers of Snot and tears and gnashing of teeth.

      Today my thoughts went thru that exercise wherein I sat on the Beema seat ???? as might a king. 14 seconds into that scene and… I didn’t want to be there. It wouldn’t validate my heart ❤️ as a real man. But only boost my ego. For a short while. The revulsion I feel (felt) only hardens my heart more…but I try to buffer that shit
      with the core knowledge that these bitches ain’t wired right. Pity. Then Meh!! Fuck it! Dumpster fire ???? like 2020. ????????????

      As men, we feel- and it’s hard as fuck to reacquire the dude we left behind and sacrificed to cleave from our mother and father to take a wife. Steeled and wiser with a keen focus on finding That Guy.

      That’s what makes us, “That Guy”.


      • I figured I’d give it a shot even if there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of her doing any of it.

  • Veronica, if your letter was in fact genuine, and if you’re not yet divorced, give your spouse the most generous settlement possible.

    If you start dating, date only people who do not want/expect monogamy.

    And most important, accept that you have some sort of mental disorder and see a psychiatrist (not a therapist) for a proper diagnosis. The psychiatrist can determine if you need medication plus psychotherapy or just therapy alone, and refer you to a therapist who specializes in whatever disorder you have.

    Mentally healthy people don’t cheat, lie, abuse, and break their families. Ergo, you are not mentally healthy and need to see a psychiatrist. And tell him or her the whole truth.

  • Dear Veronica,

    I’ll tell You the same thing I told my xw, “What’s wrong with You cannot be fixed or medicated away. There is No therapy for what you’ve got”.

    You should be aware that The karma bus never forgets an address and always visits twice. The second visit is to see if you learned anything from the first visit. I hope you like the taste of asphalt as much as you did all your covert side fucks.

    I speak for the men like myself who were Blithely cast into Hell and crawled out on their knees. Yeh, you got the “broken” part alright!

    I have no pity for you. Whatsoever.

  • Picturing that cheater rattling a leaky donations bucker calling ‘kibbles, kibbles’

  • And by “fair settlement” —— extremely generous on your part. You walk with hardly a thing. Go start your life from scratch like you wanted to.

  • Yikes, how like a chronic cheater to compulsively encroach on opposition turf. Then again maybe encroaching is particularly a chronic poacher behavior. Perhaps Veronica’s fuckbuds were mostly married/attached themselves?

    In any case, it just shows the deep divide between cheaters and non-cheaters. I was violently avoidant of anything having to do with FW’s creepy affair after DDay, even chucking an expensive organic mattress because he’d once sexted while sitting on it. By the same token, I’d never in a million years wade into “Adultery” or “TheOtherWoman” subreddits to comment. I can’t even wrap my brain around the impulse to traipse into the cheater camp and plant a flag just to get a reaction. It’s like it would give me cyber-syphilis.

    Chumps tend to avoid, avoid, avoid while cheaters and poachers seem to love to encroach, invade, usurp. You hear so many stories of FWs fucking on the marital bed or on the kids’ toy chest, approaching and trying to sway chumps’ allies, etc.

    What is that? It reminds me of raccoons. If you find a gaggle of raccoons targeting your garbage bins and throw a rock to warn them off, the animals will run away and then creep back to precisely the place the rock landed and lurk there awhile before creeping past the boundary again. This can go on all night.

    Is anyone counting how many cheaters and APs try to get comments/questions published on this site?

    • I am astounded that so many cheaters use the marital bed. I mean, there is absolutely no excuse for that except blatant flaunting and contempt for the spouse.

      I suspect my cheater brought her into our bedroom when I went to spend a week with my dad in another state. I remember now getting off the plane and he avoided eye contact and kind of drew back from my kiss. Up to then I hadn’t noticed any weirdness, though it was soon to start.

      I do know he brought her in to our home on several occasions while I was there. The pretext was that she is his employee and I needed to be friendly. Which I was; in Sheldon manner, I even offered her a hot beverage.

      I remember once we were discussing a barbeque at our house with a couple sets of friends, out of the blue he said we need to invite Schmoopie. Of course, I was utterly clueless at the time. Not for much longer though.

      • Right? There are trillions x trillions of places to have sex besides the marital bed. Everywhere on earth, in fact, but the family home. They chose that because they like to hurt us. The thrill of deception as innocent spouse gets into bed where hours or days ago the two of them were rutting like pigs in the same spot. The same bed our kids crawl into if they are sick or frightened. They’ll show us, with our middle-class morality and earnest belief in our marriage vows. The added excitement of risk: knowing this would be a knife in our hearts were we to find out. I believe they lord these secrets over us and gloat in their hidden glory. How far will they sink? Why, all the way down to hell, the hell they create for anyone who loves them.

        • Susie, I’m sorry you had to suffer the indignity of welcoming this woman into your home.

          As for using the marital bed, I think PrincipledLife is right about the thrill for the cheaters. It just makes everything seem riskier and naughtier. Fun, fun!! (Maybe Veronica can enlighten us about this.)

          But the marital bed has other cheater advantages. In addition to eliminating the potential awkwardness of checking in to a hotel and/or spotting someone in the lobby, it’s cheap.

          In my ex’s sicko mind, I’m sure he thought he was being financially responsible by saving marital assets in this way. Nearly three years of hotel stays can get expensive. They spread the joy by sometimes sleeping in *her* marital bed.

          I also think that cheaters get a thrill from playing house–making dinner together ahead of time, watching tv, snuggling….GRRRrrrr.

          On special occasions (or when I guess yours truly was home) they used the Hilton. Still makes my blood boil. When will this anger, pain, and resentment go away????

          • Yep they have to get something out of it. Plus we had a water bed, and I doubt schmoopie had one in her trailer.

            As for the pain, it will subside. Mine is mostly gone now; likely helped by the god awful mess they have made of their lives. About the only pain I have now is at myself for being so freaking stupid. Plus the pain of him blowing up his relationship with our son, that is fairly recent. I think I will always have that time to time. It doesn’t rule me; but it pops up.

          • As CL says, it will go away Tuesday, when you arrive in the promised land of Meh. Your Tuesday will come. You’re meeting new people and are going to have an amazing life now that you’ve lost the cheater deadweight. Eventually, if you think of him at all, you’ll just laugh at what a loser he is.

          • FW husband didn’t use the marital bed but he did make use of a family members house that he had access to while they were away. He was to tend to the cats and check mail. Did some other things over there as well. Hope he washed the sheets afterward. I’m sure it was solely done out of financial prudence and not wanting me to find a bill for a hotel stay. He was piiiiiisssssed when I told that family member. Meddling with HIS family.

            I do feel like my family was violated in other ways though. The OW gave us some handmedown clothing and books. I found pics he took of him reading those books to our kids or when the younger kiddo was wearing those clothes. I’m sure he sent those to her.

            • Gross! That IS a violation. It’s just wrong. I’m sorry you came across those pics. That must have hurt so much, especially because it involved the innocent kiddos. Using them in that way is terrible.

              He truly is a f**kwit!

              Ugh, and they are all so damn alike.

          • Completely agree. My exH took down our family photos. (We were expats living abroad, so I just had a collage of both our families.) He replaced this with a painting of a woman’s eyes to which he posted to Instagram #remindsmeofher. All of this just before I left on a girls trip. How I found out about the affair was the AP posting photos taken within our flat and tagged #roomwithaview the week I was away on her PUBLIC Instagram page. These people are just sick. It wasn’t just our marital bed, but our entire home. I ran away as fast as I could as soon as I got my bearings together.

      • I know the AP tried repeatedly to get into my house during the fuckfest, even offering to clean the house for FW (setting women’s rights back 200 years, oy) when the kids and I were traveling.

        I always thought it was a poacher-encroachment thing because I suppose nothing would expedite divorce faster than defiling the marital bed. I’m sure the only reason FW demurred was embarrassment that the house was a kid-raising shrine at that point (Legos, microscopes and toys stuffed everywhere, kid art gallery on every surface, paint handprints on the front door and “Mama” scrawled four feet wide in the living room). This hardly reflected the slick metro-douche image FW was trying to project.

        • It might be a poaching thing. I know for a fact this whore was trying to poach my husband as she tried with many others who worked for the city. My FW was evidently the only one to fall for it. She got him.

          • Lol- same story here. Neither were the other’s first choice. Imagine a beluga whale with stringy hair and a voice like Kristen Chenoweth + graying middle-aged FW. In a starving, war-torn hamlet in Abkhazia, they might have been considered a hot couple, but only because they still had all their limbs.

            • It would be interesting to see what they see. I mean, I know what she saw as she had a record of going after married men. My ex was likely the best of the lot in terms of looks, to be fair.

              The guy before him was really fat, and basically the town thief. We had banned him from volunteering at the Jr. Baseball concession stand because he was caught stealing. Yes AK, if you are on this site; you know who you are. Unfortunately he has/had a lovely wife; who likely didn’t have a clue. She was too busy working to pay the bills.

              And, here is the kicker, he continued to spend time with schmoopie while my ex and schmmoopie were having their f fest. I didn’t know of course the ex and schmoopie were going at it, but I knew AK, was taking her out to breakfast every morning, and he was her “shoulder to cry on”. The ex knew it too, and he would say things like, she knows I don’t like AK. I would say, it is none of your business who she hangs out with. HA, dunce that I am. (she was FWs direct report, so I put it off as just him being too involved with her personal life. HA, he was balls deep into her “personal life”.

          • Yes, screw metro-douchery. Kids are the best modern interior designers and decorators if you’re into the principles of Bauhaus. 😉

            No border between artist and craftsman (kids all over me).

            The artist is an exalted craftsman (the kid cave paintings are splendid)

            Form follows function (that fabric bumper on the stone pillar may not make the cover Architectural Digest but prevented trips to ER).

            Gesamtkunstwerk or the ‘complete work of art'(Mama is spelled correctly and followed by a tiny drawing of a happy monster).

            True materials (wood furniture, no MDF. Formaldehyde is bad for toddlers)

            Minimalism (NOT ENOUGH STORAGE).

            Emphasises on technology (you can see all the gadgets and games because NOT ENOUGH STORAGE).

            Smart use of resources (Never throw out Legos).

            • I always learn from your posts, HOAC—

              For me what the Arts and Crafts movement offered—Stickley, et al—is furniture, a design aesthetic, which improved the more it was beat upon. I cherish the scars my kids left behind as they were growing up. Once I went out to my garage and there were more than seven bikes, and my vehicle was repeatedly scared by bike handlebars banging into fenders, and I remember the half dozen skate boards and the hat box—kids helmets—and the bat box—for baseball, and mitts—and I remember my daughter turning five and wanting to be Darth Vader and the life-size outline of her, as Darth—Ahort, Ahort she’d say, waving her light saber—on the sliding glass door. Now the kids are scattered across the nation at various colleges in spite of the pandemic. I miss those days so, the LEGO’s and the cars and all the misplaced shoes, the thousands of readings Go Dog, Go, and am so grateful to have had them. Form follows function; love is as love does.

              • Epictetus– Amen and congratulations on a job well done. A good childhood definitely involves some chaos, scratched paint and shredded upholstry. I’m not quite at the point of missing it yet but I do regret ever yelling when stepping on Legos.

    • Nailed it, hoac.

      We don’t have raccoons here, but rats fits the bill also.

  • Veronica writes: “I broke my family, lied to those closest to me, and mentally and emotionally abused the man that I had pledged my life to.”

    Veronica, you self-absorbed fuckwit, don’t sell yourself short. The damage you’ve inflicted is so much more prolific. Your scarred children are now much more likely to have dysfunctional lives and relationships, and it’s likely that their children also will be affected. Multiply that for all of your married affair partners’ families. But to a narcissist like you, this sort of information gives you a rush of power and excitement. Your bouts of phony remorse and feigned introspection are transparent and fleeting.

    Like my fuckwit ex-wife who fancies herself an incorrigibly promiscuous character from “Sex And The City”. It was all so fun, right?! It was funny! It was exciting! You’re simply the kind of person who doesn’t *do* boring. She once patronizingly explained it to me: “Most people are satisfied with living somewhere in the middle.””I need more of an exciting life than most people.”

    Alrighty then. Nothing to work with here. Bye, Felicia.

    • I love this response. What a self-absorbed bunch cheaters are. They think that they are so urbane, so fascinating. They’re just sad little cliches who all behave the same way. Unfortunately, they are too blinded by their own self-perceived greatness to ever realize that truth.

  • Veronica,

    I believe in moral relativity. But I also believe in good and bad, right and wrong, healing and sickness. I think people generally gravitate more towards one or the other. This pull is based on their self-perception, the meaning they construe to life, and their awareness of the limited time they have to use their lives.

    Out of trillions of competing cells, YOU, Veronica, got the gift of life. You also got two thirds of a century to use that gift (give or take a few years). What have you done with it so far?

    You purposely inflicted emotional torture upon others. They loved and trusted you, and this is what you gave in return. This is the meaning your life has bestowed.

    Think about that. Hard.

    In the time that you have left, study the virtues and vices as a theory on the meaning of life.

    Consider changing the meaning of your life by bringing good into the world instead of pain and suffering.

    At the very least, understand that you have chosen a path of vice, and YOU ARE POISON to honest, kind and trusting people.

  • Serial cheaters, remorselessly cheat without fear of reprisal, and this is why. When cheating is identified no one says to the faithful spouse, why are you faithful lets fix that and provide you with a list of excuses. A faithful spouse is faithful because that is just who they are. But this is what is provided for the cheater and if it does not happen or happen to a satisfactory level cheaters go looking for it to receive public acknowledgment that their chosen behaviour is not their fault. Cheaters cheat because that is just who they are.

    Veronica and all those like her need to stop hoping others will provide them with and ability to escape the consequences of there poor behaviour.

  • Cheaters love the attention when you explore their motivations. Don’t do it.

    The fact that they are capable of lying and deceiving is enough to know about them.

  • My STBXH left me and our 30 year marriage for a woman I discovered is a serial cheater. In fact, her son was on the verge of telling me about his mother’s affair with my husband when my husband found this out, panicked, and told me himself. Apparently she would cheat, her husband/family would find out, and she would go back to her husband begging forgiveness. Not this time. When I brought this up to my STBXH before I went NC I asked him…”What kind of a person has 5 affairs?” His response…”Someone who is unhappy in their marriage”……which was his indirect way of telling me thats why HE committed infidelity as well. They have been living together for over a year, both filed for divorce, both sets of adult children have NC with their cheating parent (I have 2 daughters who do not speak to their father and and the AP has 2 adult sons who have finally disowned her because they support their dad) I always assumed serial adulterers typically did not do long-term relationships…. can CN shed any light on this for me???

    • A year or even two isn’t long. But, since she was unhappy in her marriage and that is why she cheated; well then all he has to do is keep her happy all the time, and she won’t cheat. And vice/versa. What are the odds?

      • ^^^exactly. A year or two isn’t that long. It’s not a long term relationship. People can let a lot of of awful stuff slide for that long because of googly eyed limerance. It wears off.

        But…sometimes people do just end up staring together. Ideally you won’t care if he’s happy or not, but while you do I’ll share the story of my dad who left my mom for his AP. She is a selfish jerk just like he’s a selfish jerk. A decade later, they are still together. I don’t know about her, but my dad is not happy in the least. He had to sell a bunch of his ow belongings before he could move into her house. He was whining to me about the monthly storage fees he paid for some items he didn’t want to part with. He’s constantly asking me how mom is doing (I don’t divulge anything about her to him). He just wants to feel like he’s 18 again but also be doted on by a super loyal wife and she is not that person.

        • Omg, sorry for typos. On phone and some things ended up autocorrected or displaced slightly.

          • No worries about the typos Limbo…..TY for sharing your story and insights…..selfish jerks indeed….Wishing only the best to your mom…she deserves it.

    • It’s too bad there is no marriage insurance that pays out when people split up, because I’d wager my entire 401(k) if these two get married. It won’t last. And that’s a pity because they so deserve each other and the toxic distrust that permeates their home like radon. Make no mistake, pennstategirl, you’ll get the last laugh because their twu luuv is a cheesy, much-stained heart-shaped motel bed in the middle of a superfund site.

      • PrincipledLife,
        Thank you for your observations…… is always nice to get other peoples’ perspectives. They sure do deserve each other , toxic distrust akin to radon and all. I am banking on getting that last laugh with a pit bull attorney who refers to my STBX’s AP as “the bottomfeeder.”

        • A pit bull lawyer!! Yes! Go pennstategirl! Stay calm but fight, fight, fight.

          You got this!

          I hope they marry, too!! As my lawyer said, if they marry, your husband will be quartered. That means he’ll lose half of his assets to you (he lost more than half) and then he’ll lose half to her when she leaves him.

          Let’s keep popcorn on hand.

          • Spinach—TY for the cheers and support. I will fight as hard and as long as I have to. I have the wholehearted and unwavering support of my two daughters. When this is all over I hope he is sitting in a corner somewhere drinking Draino. I will be eating popcorn and drinking a French Martini.

    • Well, they certainly do long term relationships in which they pretend to care whilst using and abusing their partners. They did that with us. But genuine, loving relationships? Not a chance in hell. These two are going to use each other until one or both find a newer, shinier candidate for spousal appliance. In each other, they got what they deserved.

      To Veronica; show the depth of your sorry by giving your husband all the marital assets, full custody of the kids, and admitting what you did to everyone you know. Put out a social media post telling everyone you are a serial cheater and how sorry you are.
      Yeah, I know you’re not gonna do that, because you aren’t sorry you hurt your family. You’re just panicking because you’ve been exposed as a fraud, and trying to come up with a new lie to sell your husband, like; “I’m reading Chump Lady, honey, because I want to really understand how you feel. I’ve changed!” Yeah, fuck that.

      • OHFFS,
        My hope is that the AP finds a shinier, newer spousal appliance to use first so my STBXH feels the rejection….I not at meh yet but I am certainly on my way.

  • Well this email is disturbing. Ugh, how hard is it to NOT be a total and complete terrible human being? Answer: not that tough. Most of us on this site been doin it for our entire lives.

    Everyone is entitled to make mistakes and, for the most part, we probably shouldn’t be judged for life for that one-off bad thing we did…but, cheating is not a one-off bad thing. What CL has showed me is that even if it only happens once, cheating requires a series of choices that must be proactively made. Essentially, it is multiple betrayals, made consciously, by a person who you are supposed to be able to love and trust above all else. That’s fucking terrible, and anyone who does it is terrible. So, Veronica, you’re terrible. Own it and change it and leave your husband alone.

    • “… Cheating requires a series of choices that must be proactively made. Essentially, it is multiple betrayals, made consciously, by a person who you are supposed to be able to love and trust above all else.”

      NaNC, that is absolutely *spot on*. It’s gone into my journal. Thank you. ????????

  • Serial cheaters are never satisfied. You’ve earned your pot of nothingness Veronica. We’ve moved on and just don’t care about your entitled swamp. Nothing special, just pathetic.

  • I had a relationship with a guy for three years before I met my ex. I ended the relationship because I believed he might have been cheating. At the very least, he was too flirty with the ladies and acting single-like when out with the boys. In fact, one of the things that attracted me to my ex-husband was that he didn’t seem at all like that boyfriend. Not too charming or flirty.

    But, I have to give that old boyfriend some credit. He was honest with other about the break-up (a number of the girlfreinds/wives of his buddies told me). He said I ended it because he wasn’t appreciating me enough, that he had been having a roving eye, and that he was stupid for letting me get away.

    Yet my ex-husband has yet to admit to anyone who matters that he cheated. In three years since he left the marriage to be with the OW, he just will not own it. There is a whole false narrative that’s been created to protect their reputation that no one close to him has bought. So, he lives a double life with this other woman who never gets brought to family functions or close friends. It’s wierd.

    Whatever he concedes is still a bunch of half truths. He once said he was sorry that “I thought it was his fault the marriage ended” as he wasn’t “feeling well at the end. The end? I’ve learned that this woman was in my marriage for about 21 months. Another time he said he was sorry that he didn’t have the courage to leave sooner and that it hurt me that he dragged things on because he is a coward. Again, not admitting to the woman before this one that he attempted to make the relationship physical after their emotional affair (she told me herself), or the other one that he was “hanging” with while he was leaving me to be with the OW. Plus, years of regular porn-watching.

    What drives me bonkers is when they don’t accept that you will not give credit their pseudo-apologies. Poor them. Then, they use it against you as an example of how inflexible, unreasonable and controlling you are. So much for being sorry.

    A person who is truly sorry is no position to dictate how the person on the other end receives it.

    • “So, he lives a double life with this other woman who never gets brought to family functions or close friends. It’s weird.”

      Good lord! So she’s a “kept woman”? Does she ever get to go out? What kind of life is that? I almost feel sorry for her.

      Nah, never mind. I don’t.

    • Well that is decent of your old boyfriend—not blame-shifting or slandering you after the break up and being honest about his conduct which yeah he crossed lines and boundaries but hopefully never cheated on you.
      Would that our wayward partners and your ex-husband were more like that…

  • Maybe the hard thing for these types is knowing—once moment of clarity hits—they will never be trusted again. That is, having had the drape removed, they are now known and recognized by those they’ve injured.

    Skilled predators don’t prey on the homeless and the poor by and large: to be targeted by a Narc or sociopath is to be perceived as having some sort of value. Once the target sees clearly, the predator loses the option of looking good, saintly, charming.

    And that loss enrages the entitlement vein, fills it with toxic lava.

    It also astounds me their utter lack of boundaries: poaching and poisoning old friends, family, kids.

    Typically they confuse a desire to avoid conflict—No Contact—with one’s ability to wage it. Maybe they continue long after the fact to cross boundaries because doing so is the only way to a) stay engaged and b) try to flip yet again the victim’s understanding.

    As a man, speaking for myself, to be regarded as untrustworthy would be intolerable.

    Once seen, clearly, the victim will never again trust the manipulative perpetrator. And the perp knows that.

    • Yep. And they hate to be seen as they truly are, untrustworthy, entitled narcissists.

      Once my ex’s mask fell and he knew that I didn’t trust a thing he did or said from that point on, he had the gall to threaten me with a contentious divorce. He wrote, “If you don’t trust me, the divorce won’t go smoothly.” Did he really expect me to say, “Oh no, of course I trust you. You just lied every day for two years, but I’m cool with that.”

      So, in the end, he even felt entitled to my instant trust and forgiveness.

      • It is truly astounding that they think we will trust them with managing the divorce. Mine tried the same lawyer deal, nope.

        Then later on he called me and said if you don’t do this, I will sell everything; I just said “knock yourself out big boy” and hung up on him. My boss was dying laughing. He called back in about 15 minutes and said I shouldn’t have said that. I basically said, I am busy bye.

        He thought for a minute I guess that he controlled the law in our state; and was still in control. Then when he hung up, I am sure his sad sack lawyer (who lived in the same trailer park as his whore) said you better apologize, she has a lawyer that will destroy you.

        • The worth of a good lawyer cannot be understated.

          Because you were dealing with a police officer (a relatively high ranking one), I would imagine you needed an extra set of badass balls. Divorce is hard for all, but surely there’s an added level of fear when you’re dealing with a man with power and a gun.

          • Yep. I was never physically afraid of him, (I guess you never know for sure, I am betting Lacy Peterson wasn’t afraid of her H either) but he would have used any power he could.

            I actually went to another city, a big city to hire my lawyer. I didn’t want anyone associated with or who knew any police officers in our city. I asked specifically of my lawyer in our consultation if he knew any of them, or if he was partial to law enforcement. He assured me and I felt comfortable with him.

            I kind of regret not going for the full three years of legal separation with full maintenance. But, as it was I got a year anyway, I asked for six months and the ex delayed the other six months. I suspect the ex would have been ok with the full three years. Only because I think he was trying to delay his remarriage. I can’t think of any other reason that would benefit him. I know he didn’t want me back, so that had to be it.

            Then another part of me wishes I had gotten it done in the two months the state required, so as to force him to marry her quick, but I couldn’t afford that, I needed to recoup some of the money he stole to spend on her, and get emotionally stable.

  • I’ve only written a comment here once or twice before. As the husband of a cheat I have to say that these days even the thought of infidelity fills me with revulsion.

    I’m 25 months down the line from D-Day but I still struggle every day. Why? The reasons are manifold but it always comes down to the fact that to betray someone for another person goes against every twist and curl of our DNA.

    As a species, we have an overwhelming compunction to bond, be it with a same-sex or different-sex partner. Whatever the case, that urge to BE with somebody is beyond primal. I think a lot of us here experience and exhibit that same purity of spirit, that sense of deep, deep, immeasurably fathomless commitment and connection. A feeling so incomprehensively personal that for someone to betray our trust, our sense of self, almost feels like a crime against humanity, a violation of everything we know and think that we know about the human condition.

    As such, there is no forgiveness. For forgiveness itself would be an act of contrition that would only serve to perpetuate the untruths and the illusions.

    These people, to whom we have given our hearts and revealed the very depths of our souls are not like us. They are different. It’s as simple as that.

    • Well said!

      I hope that each day you struggle less and less. It’s a terrible pain—a trauma—that only those who’ve been betrayed in this way can fully appreciate.

      The Veronicas of the world don’t get it. Cheaters are a different breed.

  • Own that you’re a selfish c^*~

    Walk away from everyone in your betrayed’s life -except for the children.
    Follow his lead in parenting and everything else.
    You don’t really deserve to take up space, however your children need you.
    Don’t be a selfish c^*\ of a mother in addition to sucking generally as a human being

  • Please Veronica….go away….go far, far, far away….like maybe to Tibet.

    I told my FW two words…..

    vasectomy and pre-nup

    He won’t listen. He will procreate with this idiot, and then get taken to the cleaners. He will be quartered indeed.

    Me? I am not at ‘meh’ yet as the divorce was just finalized, and he is practicing parental alienation, because after all, I deserve it for being a loyal and faithful wife. But, I am getting a master’s degree. I am no contact, and my Tuesday is over the horizon…..

  • Yes Veronica, true remorse comes from within. If you have to ask, you don’t get it. You are yet another hopeless case.

  • Veronica,

    I’m guessing your husband left you if you’re so desperate for attention as to write Chump Lady.

    I have no advice. Just wanted to let you know I’m thrilled for your ex.

  • It’s Tuesday and I have FINALLY arrived at meh. Veronika’s letter to CL does move me one way or the other. It is a blessing!

    Thank you to CL and everyone who has ever shared their sorrow, pain, vulnerability and compassionate love and wisdom on this blog. I send you prayers that you, too, may get to meh.

  • Dear Veronica,

    Your people, in hell, want ice water.
    You may take some to them.


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