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Before D-Day, After D-Day

The Ashley Madison “science” finding that cheaters are happy having affairs and feel zero regrets squares nicely with my Unified Theory of Cake — the goal is both the affair and the primary relationship.

Isn’t it funny how after discovery cheater happiness vanishes? All that satisfaction they feel in their marriage is satisfaction they feel with cake. Before discovery, they’d swear on a stack of bibles nothing is wrong, they love you. After discovery, nope, they never loved you. Or the more mindfuckish, they Love You But They’re Not In Love With You.

Velvet Hammer summed it up in this comment yesterday:

What I heard before DDay.

Denied having an affair when directly asked.
Denied being angry when directly asked.
Said he loved me, our family, was so lucky, blah blah blah.

For our 20th wedding anniversary, announced that “for the past few months, I’ve been thinking about living by myself for a while, but I don’t want a divorce.” I asked him immediately if he was involved with someone and he said no. I opened the Velvet Hammer Private Investigation Agency the very next second. It did not take very long to find out half of my 54 year old life was not a marriage but a mirage.

What I heard after DDay:

He’d been unhappy for years.
Laundry list of what’s wrong with me, which he refused to elaborate on when asked directly.
Displayed incredibly cruel and vicious anger toward me.

No matter how you slice it, this is super effed up, and you can’t be genuinely happy and super effed up simultaneously IMHO. He’s welcome to his definition of happy. It’s not mine.

So your Friday Challenge is to compare and contrast — before D-Day, after D-Day. Were they celebrating your anniversary previously, letting you invest in a new home, a new kid, their career — and now they never meant it? What bait and switch did you get?


Ask Chump Lady

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  • We went looking for apartments to buy; some were very expensive! Ex was so encouraging.
    After DDay I wondered how did he think I would make the mortgage payments???
    Self-absorbed, stupid and selfish to the end. What a waste of a human being.

  • Yes, I experienced all of this. We had just signed a contract to buy a house and were planning a holiday and then kids.
    Then I found out he cheated and “he never loved me”, “he never wanted to get married”, “he’s not happy” etc – and it was all my fault. Boring. Next. Loser!

    • For SHAME, Carla! You must have TRAPPED him into a relationship and marriage! You must have SUCKED the AGENCY right out of the poor man like the vampire you are!

      I hope I slopped the sarcasm on thickly enough, and I hope you’re thriving without the jerk!

      • Thank you for putting it that way. I’m mortified that both former H’s said that they had never wanted to get married. I couldn’t believe it the first time I heard it (married many yrs and kids), but to hear it again with FW H#2 !!!!!!
        Do I have some super power that MAKES grown men marry me?
        If so, I really with I could pick much better men!

    • For SHAME, Carla! You must have TRAPPED the poor man into a relationship, then a marriage! You must have SUCKED the AGENCY right out of him like the emasculating lady vampire you are!

      I hope I slopped the sarcasm on thickly enough, and that you’re thriving without the whiny, lying creep.

  • It’s is bad to say that it’s so exhausting to think about that I’m just at Meh with all the shitty abuse I put up with? My 11yr marriage was an absolute lie from day 1 and the amount of mental, emotional, and fiscal abuse is very overwhelming! I’m STILL paying for his BS and have been 9 yrs out. I wasted good years of my life and brought 2 beautiful children into chaos. I was stuck in the trauma bonds patterns and addicted to the dopamine rushes that kept me pursuing other abusive relationships in all areas of my life. I’m not an addict of alcohol or illegal drugs but toxic people were my drug of choice bc I tried to see the “goodness in everyone”. With that naive mindset, I went through 2 other abusive relationships. 1 almost cost me my life and custody of my kids. The 3rd one made me take a long hard look at myself to see what I was contributing to these repeated toxic relationships. Basically, I was allowing them in my life and sadly in EVERY aspect of my life (work, romantic, friends, family, church, etc.) So, with that enlightened knowledge, I took my “see the good in everyone” naive attitude and did the hard work on myself to cut ties with toxic people, set boundaries, and gain my life back. I and my kids are now happier and healthier than we’ve ever been….and better yet, they are now setting boundaries with unhealthy people (including their dad). I’m happy to report, I have healthy relationships in all areas of my life and found a partner who cherishes me and supports all my efforts (including mentoring abused women/families).

    So, with that in mind, to all the newbies – this is a good exercise to identify all the shit you put up with….the next step is using these feelings hurt, pain, injustice, abuse, etc. and use them as fuel to change your life from negative to positive. I stayed stuck for the first 5 yrs out of marriage from FW#1 in a perpetual cycle of abuse, negativity, and chaos….if not with him with other toxic people. Then when I got to rock bottom with cheating FW#3 I used the pain and hurt to FINALLY cut the cord and do the hard work on myself. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done and I’m forever grateful I did it! Now onward to bigger and better things❤️.

    • I saw something recently which said self-care is not chocolate and scented candles. It’s making the decisions and taking the actions to remove yourself from a harmful situation.

    • “To all the newbies – this is a good exercise to identify all the shit you put up with”–so well said! For me, the time after DDay has also been a time for me to identify the areas in my life where I accept a little bit of kind treatment, fair treatment, etc. and magnify it in my mind so that I imagine I’m being treated wonderfully.

      • Leedy, what you are describing is a coping mechanism. In times of trauma our brains will automatically filter out the bad and focus on the good. Therefore, in abusive situations we victims tend to magnify the “good” little crumbs our abuser’s give us so to minimize the actual abuse in order to cope with the trauma. That’s why so many of us have spent YEARS with these fucktards! What needs to happen now is you need to recognize that as abuse and allow it to piss you off so you will do the work on yourself to never ever let someone treat you that way again – EVER!!!! I highly recommend George Simon book “Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing” and Henry Cloud book “Boundaries”. Put your bitch boots on and turn the pain into a positive❤️

  • My ex & I were separated because I couldn’t take his lack of effort anymore. He said he was going to “woo & date me all over again” so we could have a better marriage. He just didn’t tell me that he was also on Tinder where he picked up Schmoopie. So here I am getting dolled-up for our dates thinking we were on course to save our marriage, but not him, he was trying to compare wife vs Schmoopie. Who was going to give him the most kibbles? Well Schmoopie of course, because she was hitting hard because she knew she was in a competition and I had no idea!!! If he had told me – and he knew this too – I would’ve handed his ass to her on a platter! I would not have tried to save our marriage. He was so dishonest. Also trying to rub my face in it afterwards & gloat about Schmoopie & his happiness was sickening. Any time I have a good memory or think of him fondly….all I have to do is think of his actions at the end and that bursts my bubble. He literally ruined 20 years with 3 months of shadiness.

  • For any newbies here, sometimes the house-hunting is “future-faking” to keep you busy and distracted while they pursue a separate life and/or schmoopies.

    My ex and I were working with agents and every Friday we would also check real estate listings for open houses. When I found an open listing on our bedroom computer, I pointed out to him that it was for rent, not for sale. He said I misread it, so I looked more closely, and saw he also had an email open, to an online AP, telling her he’d already toured it, and asking her to move in with him days later. Turns out she was a catfisher, and he’d been sending her loads of money for months.

    The search for homes was very deliberate on his part. A former employer did the same thing. He told us he was buying a new corporate office, and had the staff focus on the new building’s layout, office and decor. That was just cover for his closed-door meetings with unfamiliar people who were poking around our existing building. Turned out he sold the business and didn’t want us to know.

    Cheaters want you to keep reinvesting in the relationship while they pursue other interests.

    • So true, Goodfriend! My ex also future-faked trying to get me excited buying a hobby farm. It was so out of left field for him, plus I had zero interest, that I didn’t warm up to the idea. I have concluded that the hobby farm was Schmoopie’s idea (trying to get him vested in a future for them) & he used it as me & him idea to see how I felt about it. He never did buy it. I honestly think if I had been excited about it, if he & Schmoopie would’ve bought it. Just another mindfuck.

    • “Cheaters want you to keep reinvesting in the relationship while they pursue other interests.”

      My cheater would tell me that he really wanted me to invest in _____ and our life would be better. The things he suggested were all just wild goose chases to distract me. We went on a retreat for hurting marriages and he faked interest…on the way home, I felt no reassurance, everything he said sent red flags flying and all my Spidey senses were screaming.

      Later, when dating forever-husband…he was working on his demons from his first marriage and talking about a future together started to evolve into future faking…I realized it and put a stop to future talk of any sort. We obviously did create a future, but it became intentional and real

  • As you know my D Day happened while on holiday. Left me alone in a foreign country with no money , no keys , no passport , no bank cards he simply went back to the hotel emptied the safe and vanished . I’ve never once seen or heard from him since that second and that was over 4 years ago

    But on D Day morning we made love them went sight seeing . We met a random couple at lunch and they just got engaged and he said to the man the best thing he ever did was marry me .
    Not 40 minutes later he was shrugging his shoulders saying how much he loved AP and vanished forever !!

    I still don’t understand why he came in that holiday and booking other ones when he knew he was leaving me for her.
    What an asshole

    • Yep to your last paragraph. I honestly think it is just simple selfishness. He likely wanted to avoid any confrontation, so future faking it all the way.

      Mine told me the day he left, he “thinks it will work out, he just needs some space to get his head on straight”. Of course he already knew he was leaving to marry the whore, hell he almost had to marry the whore to keep his job. But, if he told me that, he could get out the door without any falling apart on my end, and he came to the house the next couple days while I was at work and cleaned out all his stuff including the desk where all our documents were.

      I didn’t think fast enough to change the locks, but he would have simply called a locksmith to get in anyway. he was still reveling in what he thought was his power.

    • I am so sorry that happened to you! I cannot even imagine being left alone in a foreign country with nothing . . . how frightening! And of course you’d be worried at first that something had happened to him. “What an asshole” is right!

    • This is one of the worst things I’ve ever read. I’m so sorry. How did you get home?

  • When I came out of the fog and found the community on Chumplady, it shocked me to learn how many of us have the same story. My Voldemort pulled all the exact same stuff as yours (re-signed expensive lease only to leave me with it, used all of our money for his escapades, it was all my fault he was unhappy, blah, blah, blah…you all know the rest) and tried so hard to convince me that I was an all-around bad person. Spoiler alert: I’m actually quite reasonable and lovely. My superpower was knowing that no matter what he said about me, I knew I was none of those things. Know that you are not who they say you are and that their happiness has nothing to do with the one time back in 1995 when you left the tube off the toothpaste.

  • When Ex and I first bought a house, he begged to move to an area I didn’t like. It was far from my friends (not his), places I liked to go, places I could enjoy hobbies, but it was close to his work (gave me a crappy commute to my work), cheap, and lots of new construction. I was happy to live in an older, smaller place in a more desirable area. He was not. However, he promised me if we moved there, the next place we lived I could choose if I just sucked it up here for a few years.

    Well, what was supposed to be 3-5 years in the starter place turned into 7 because he was an idiot that committed forgery at work, got fired, kicked out of his industry, and had to go back to school to get a new career. That left me as sole breadwinner for several years. Did I mention that I was pregnant when all that chaos happened? Oh, and he had developed a gambling addiction I uncovered a few months after he was fired. FML. But, I thought this was the richer or poorer, better or worse part of our wedding vows, so I stuck by my man (plus I was terrified of being a single parent, and worried about the shame I’d face as a divorcee, I was married in the Catholic church and my parents, especially my mother had always voiced very anti-divorce sentiments).

    Anyways, so finally FW gets a new job in a new field. We start house hunting. We look at homes closer to where he grew up and where I grew up. Place some offers near his old neck of the woods, but get outbid. Find a house near my old stomping grounds. Place an offer, gets accepted. A week after that… he seems super stressed, I ask him, “Do you not want this house? We haven’t waived contingencies yet, we can absolutely back out and keep looking. I want you to be happy in our next house too.” He insisted he was fine, and a few days later, seemed better, said he had put out finances in some financial calculators and felt much more comfortable about the increase in mortgage payment. Tries to start pushing for another baby, but I’m not ready yet. Well, less than a year after we move in, things are going downhill. He’s checked out, still lying, we’re in couples counseling. I catch him in yet another lie, and ask him to stay the night somewhere else. That’s his cue to ask for a “trial separation.” Oh, that’s convenient, his close female friend I’ve asked him to have better boundaries with had also asked her husband for a trial separation just a few weeks prior. We’re still going to couple’s counseling. I forget if it was there, or one of the other nights we were talking about stuff, he says, “I never wanted to move into this house.” I called him out on his BS, told him that’s not what he told me, and I told him I wanted to be happy in the next house and we could back out. “Oh, but I wanted you to have what made you happy.” WTF? Followed up by, “Why did you have to be so superficial and need a bigger house in a nicer area?” Why couldn’t you be happy where you were as long as you were with me?” Umm, buddy… the schools by our house SUCKED, we both hated have a 3 story townhouse and were sick of all the stairs. We were talking about having another kid. It’s 5-10 degrees cooler in the worst of the summer / fall heat where we are now, and we commute opposite the flow of traffic for work. Why couldn’t he be happy where we were now as long as he was with me? That argument cut both ways.

    That was a classic move of his though, promise to do something in the future, to get me to agree to what he wanted now, and then make excuses for why he shouldn’t have to keep his end of the promise later when I held him to it.

    Another BS line he attempted on me, “You never let me have friends over!” I was like, what? There was a particular friend of his I didn’t like, I got him a job at my office, (he was in sales in the same industry). He turned out to be an awful salesman, never made quota, which forced me to micromanage him a bit… asking him to fill out sales logs, etc. to try to get him on track. Caught him lying about where he was spending his time, he literally copied old notes, thinking I, nor anybody else would notice. Fortunately, he finally quit after we called him out on that. Anyways, despite that, I never told FW he couldn’t be friends w/NoSale Sal. Encouraged them to still hang out. We had only had one get-together w/friends in the new house, but of course, NoSale Sal was invited and came. No big deal everyone had a good time that day. I called out FW again, “When did I ever say you couldn’t have anyone over. When we invited people over to watch the game, he was there and I had no problem with it.” His reply, “well, I feel like I can’t.” I said, “No, you don’t get to blame me for an answer I never gave to a question you never asked.”

    Bait & switch, revisionist history, these creeps are full of it.

    Also, having lots of problems upvoting & posting in the comments this week

    • “Also, having lots of problems upvoting & posting in the comments this week”
      (1) Yeah – me too.

      (2) I do not like this itsy-bity, teeny-weeny font* for the replies and comments. (*with or without the yellow-polka-dots)

      (3) I do not like this new format, where my comments and replies – that I am making to a specific poster – is not tabbed to that poster’s comments, but is instead just showing up as if it was a reply to the main topic.

      • OKAY – so the itsy-bitsy font is only for when I am typing, and it shows up in the regular size for reading (after the posting has gone through).

        But I still don’t like it. It is too small for typing. (At least, the font appears WAY TOO SMALL on MY laptop. Maybe it is not a problem for the rest of you.)

      • The old comment system was disabled as the IT folks are trying to figure out what the issue is. Please bear with me. It’s reverted to basic WordPress comments that don’t have the upvoting and bells and whistles.

        We hope to sort it out soon, but it’s a holiday weekend. Bear with me. Sorry for the frustration.

        • Thank you for all you do. As the site, commenting, etc. are FREE, I hope Little Wing and others can focus as much as possible on the value provided as on any inadvertent inconvenience.

    • Adding that my family ended up being really supportive, even my mom, which surprised me.

    • I am also experiencing a lot of issues with upvoting & accessing comments, especially today. When I click on the Star to upvote, I am sent to Wordpress login page, and can’t actually enter an upvote or Liked (whatever it’s called now). I am now using Google Chrome as a browser, so at least can see the site. As of today if I visit CL on my admittedly older Safari browser, the CL site sends me Wordpress warnings. Bizarrely, they are in German (I am in Canada) but it appears to be an unsupported browser message, hence the switch to Chrome. However, I still cannot upvote even on Chrome.

    • My experience was very similar. As far as I knew, we had a happy marriage. Now, when I look back at it, I can see that after the first few years, he became increasingly selfish, contributed very little, and developed a serious drinking problem. I shouldn’t have overlooked all that, but I loved him and absolutely believed he loved me. He told me and everyone else how happy he was and how much he loved me.


      Shortly before I was to retire – I was the primary, and often sole, earner – he convinced me to move to a different state. It was a place I never would have wanted to live – it was both unattractive and far from my family and friends – but he was insistent. Our marriage of more than 25 years was very important to me, so I went along with it and was a good sport. We sold our beautiful house in our home state – the house he said we’d live in forever – bought a lot in the new state, and were planning to build our retirement home there. Thank God we didn’t get far on that project.

      He started the affair that I know of just weeks later. He spent the next year siphoning as much money as possible into his “business” behind my back, supporting and vacationing with his rapacious side piece, also behind my back, and being bitter and angry with me about, well, everything, when he was around, which wasn’t often. I thought his ugly behavior was due to stress caused by the pandemic, leaving our longtime home, and running his business. He kept me busy and distracted, which wasn’t difficult, and pretended to be busy himself, traveling a lot on business, and investing money I had earned in rental properties that he was planning to keep when we divorced. So I thought we were working towards our retirement together, when actually he was feathering his nest for his departure.

      Shortly after moving his side piece into one of our rental properties, he insisted on marriage counseling. That turned out to be a vehicle to complain about me – claiming he’d been unhappy for ten years, no, actually, one year, well, anyway, a long time, we are utterly incompatible, I don’t speak his love language, blah blah blah. I was absolutely blindsided.
      After six months of counseling, he told me and the counselor that he wanted a divorce for the handful of trivial reasons he had given over and over during counseling. The counselor told him he should leave and she would talk to me. She then told me it was obvious he was cheating on me, and that he was lying about his reasons for wanting a divorce and it had nothing to do with me. She had a lot of choice remarks about his character. She said I should get out and get a good lawyer. God bless her. She made me face reality, so I could focus on just getting divorced and putting him behind me. And Chump Lady and Chump Nation have been the best. The collective knowledge and experience here is just invaluable.

      Once I started telling friends, I heard about a lot of inappropriate behavior – drunkenly hitting on mutual friends, approaching hookers in casinos – so who knows when he started cheating. I doubt that the current side piece was his first.

    • Yep to your last paragraph. I honestly think it is just simple selfishness. He likely wanted to avoid any confrontation, so future faking it all the way.

      Mine told me the day he left, he “thinks it will work out, he just needs some space to get his head on straight”. Of course he already knew he was leaving to marry the whore, hell he almost had to marry the whore to keep his job. But, if he told me that, he could get out the door without any falling apart on my end, and he came to the house the next couple days while I was at work and cleaned out all his stuff including the desk where all our documents were.

      I didn’t think fast enough to change the locks, but he would have simply called a locksmith to get in anyway. he was still reveling in what he thought was his power.

  • Before D-Day:
    Not much was said at all. He might have been even more quiet/reserved/preoccupied than usual, but I attributed it to his upcoming retirement and speculated that he might be suffering from early dementia. There was NO mention of any unhappiness with our relationship. We embarked on a massively expensive renovation of our lake house with the understanding that we would retire there. Of course, he had something else in mind entirely. 😡

    3 days before D-Day:
    He said, “I’d like a separation. I need some time to be alone.” This came out of the blue. I was shocked and devastated. I said, “Is there another woman? There’s always another woman.” Of course, he denied it. I was confused and suspicious because, among other things, he can’t be alone.

    On D-Day (only 3 days after asking for a separation):
    “I think you can love two people at the same time.”
    “I didn’t think it would last and assumed we’d stay together.”
    “I lied to you every day for 2 1/2 years.”
    “She tried to end it by moving away.”

    After D-Day when he had to justify what he’d done to others, including the lawyers:
    “We had a bad marriage.”
    “You aren’t perfect either.”
    “It takes two people.”
    “You don’t like fly fishing, and she does.”
    “You didn’t want to move to Montana.” (He’d never asked me.)
    He toggled between expressing regret and going for the jugular.

    One year from D-Day:
    He married her, which is the ultimate affair-justification move. “See, it was the real thing.”

    Bottom line: No, he never told me he was unhappy.

  • Something is wrong with the site…my post never posted & I was forced to log in using Patreon.

    • Yeah, I had to create an account w/wordpress, but it kept making me login from my email, and my browser doesn’t like this site anymore, lol. Lots of headaches. So yeah, I guess I have a wordpress account now?

    • Mine didn’t post at first and I thought the comment had been deleted. Just came back a day later and it posted after all. Weird!

  • A month before, he posted a picture of me on Twitter with the description “the only queen I’ll ever bend a knee to”. (He was a big Game of Thrones fan.)

    After, he said, “I never loved you.”

    12 years is a long time to pretend to love someone.

    • GOT fandom became a red flag after I learned FW and the AP religiously watched the whole series as a post-bonk activity, apparently to fill in for the lack of conversation.

      I didn’t know much about the series to start with. I stopped watching in the middle of the first episode when the simpering inflatable party doll heroine is sold to the “savages” who dance “wildly” in a terribly choreographed, insulting send-up of tribal African fertility rites during sensationalized, racialized “Mandingo” marital rape. Not even Peter Dinklage’s tour de force could make me watch the rest.

      But after D-Day, my inner “misanthropologist” became curious about the viewing habits of sociopaths. Clearly something about GOT was assuaging and appealing to FWs. Aside from all the pornily glamorized adulterous sex scenes, 50 rapes in 11 episodes? Consistently dire fates for LGBT? It’s a fantasy world but somehow all the elites are whitey-white if not blond and the “savages” swarthy who are then lured by their “savage” sexuality to be civilized by white people. The series turned out to be worse than my first impression.

      • Yep. I love sci-fi and fantasy, and was given the first book ages ago as a gift. About halfway in it went in the donate pile. I asked the person who gave it to me why in the world would they think I would enjoy a violent book like that?

        They gave me some tripe about how rape “used to be more commonplace” and was a “part of the narrative and strong female character motivation” – which is just hooey. It was gratuitous violent porn, written by a creepy man because that’s what he likes to think about.

        I shuttered when I heard about the HBO show, felt nauseated when I tried to watch it, and utterly depressed for our culture when it became a huge hit.

        Now it is my litmus test. If a person enjoys those books or that show it tells me a LOT about what behavior they find “entertaining.”

        • I love how GOT fans got so defensive of the “historical accuracy” of sexual violence in a medieval setting, but apparently the dragons and zombies are okay.

        • There’s definitely a link there IMO. My FW loved both GOT and Vikings. In fact, he loved any show where evil was on display and not shown as being punished. Eg; House of Cards, Boardwalk Empire, Sons of Anarchy, Billions, Dexter, etc. ad nauseum. He wouldn’t watch anything but gratuitous crap which showcased psychopathic behavior. So glad I escaped that sicko!

      • Oh dang…I have never watched GOT but thought that we might get around to it…now I dont want to at all. Thanks for saving hours of my life that I would otherwise never get back.

  • Before DDAY from ex: : “I love you SOOOO much. You stay home and I’ll work, I make enough $” He was meeting with men for sexual escapades FOR 37 YEARS😱 Three and a half decades of lies and deception. His needs weren’t being met! (Obviously I did not have the body parts he needed) . Thank GOD no children. It’s been 2 years since discovery, I’ll almost 70 years old and starting a whole new life away from everything I ever knew. Not gonna lie , it’s not easy. Silver lining is I get to face my family of origin issues and truly GROW UP. Be an adult. Change MY behaviors. Doubt I’ll ever be in a relationship again, but I’m gonna learn how to love me now🪴

  • Before D-Day:

    “You’re the perfect wife.”

    “I love you.”

    “I’m fine. I don’t need therapy or medication.”

    “No, there’s nothing you could be working on”

    “It’s great if you want to do an MDiv after your MA, if that’s what you want, go for it.”

    After D-Day:

    “You make me miserable.”

    “I never knew what love was until I met [the OW]. I never loved you.” [Note: we were married over a decade. His relationship with OW lasted 4 months.]

    “I was depressed and unhappy all the time.”

    “You’re verbally and emotionally abusive and controlling and YOU ended our marriage when you had that thing with that professor” [Note: “that thing” was me being sexually harassed by a professor at another school, and I firmly rejected his advances.]

    “You’re a perpetual student and you refuse to graduate and get a job and support the family.”

    • Having the fact that you were subjected to evil being doubled back on you as a reason to abuse you– as if this made you guilty of something”– is familiar. Talk about a mind fuck. In my case, I prosecuted a stalker before marriage and then filed civil rights complaints against a school when our disabled son was physically abused by staff. Apparently these things proved I was “triggery” and “don’t know how to get along with people,” ergo “cheat-on-able.” You can’t make this stuff up. If you brought that line of thinking to logical extremes and asked people like this if they thought, say, Martin Luther King “had it coming because, you know, he was a pot-stirrer,” most would howl in shock and call you a racist. But, if you think about it, they’re saying exactly the same thing.

  • Before being dumped (affair with exgfOW discovered a few weeks after dumping): ‘our holidays are amazing’.

    After being dumped during the ‘listing of the flaws’: ‘our holidays weren’t that great either’.


  • Mine was more of a slow burn and then an explosion followed by yet more spot fires.

    He retired. He got frustrated with me and the college kids and moved out. He ended up in the ICU and then the behavioral unit of a major hospital center. He came back. He quit therapy after a month. There were signs of sexual “broadening” that disturbed me. He took off again. I told him that he couldn’t live with us when he returned. He made it long distance. That was the explosion.

    Then all the blame-and-game for a year while pledging his love. There were hints that he had “friends” before and after he took off for the beach. Lots of spot fires further damaging any trust I had left. I cut off all relationship discussions. He wanted a divorce and claimed to have no clue why I was refusing to be with him because he is a loving, generous man.

    Then I found Chump Lady while waiting for the judge sign-off on the divorce. His attorney had blabbed to mine that adultery was involved, confirming all my suspicions and gut feelings. Yes, the infamous Unified Theory of Cake applied.

    But life afterwards? Truly lovely. I realized not long ago that this is truly one of the happiest chapters of my life.

  • Hmm. My experience was somewhat different. FW professed unhappiness well before D-Day. So I got counseling for us. I worked hard. It was never enough. My sentiment was there, but she said it wasn’t expressed exactly the right way. I didn’t jump through the hoop at the right angle. Nothing was enough. So I basically engaged in years of pick-me dance without knowing I had competition.

    After D-Day, it became my fault that she strayed, because I had never danced hard enough, in the right shoes. Never mind that she was in counseling saying these things in mid-affair. The more I think about it, the crueler it becomes. When I finally said “enough,” she got mad. And madder and madder until the volcano became a permanent eruption. She’s still mad, years later, post-divorce.

    • Mine’s still angry too, yet claiming he’s glad to be rid of me. They aren’t glad to be rid of us. They wanted to keep cake and we thwarted them, so they seethe with hatred for us. Life is a zero sum game for them, and by cutting off their cake, we won. What a miserable thing it is to be a FW.

  • My EXFW went through a terrible two year battle with cancer and I stood by his side caring for him. He called me his ‘nurse angel’ and insisted we renew our wedding vows in September. Three short months later I caught him sneaking off to fuck schmoopie. I guess he hadn’t been happy either. eyeroll

  • What I got was the opposite of Before, All Good!, and After, Me (but not Him) Bad. What I got Before was years of devaluation and blame for his unhappiness, while After came a period of Future Faking and Charm, designed to keep me a compliant Wife Appliance. But, when I refused to acquiesce, and pushed on with a divorce, we reverted to the norm of “Me (but Not Him) Bad.”

  • Before D-Day, I got “You’re too fat, you’re too ugly. I deserve something better. I’m leaving. Goodbye.” That was my first husband, and I had no idea we were unhappy, or that he was. He left for three days, then came slinking back home while I was at work. D-day was a few days later. (This was 45 years ago — I’m uncertain of he exact timeline.). D-day was the night before his college graduation, after I finished putting him through school. Then I got, “I’m so sorry, I really love you and I’ll do anything to prove it.” Sadly, I believed that until the second D-Day a year later.

    • Well, one of my attempts to post succeeded. I apologize if the other 4 or 5 actually end up on the site. I’ve been having problems posting for a week.

  • Well, this is hard because literally everything he said while we were married, he later denied, changed his tune or acted opposite. But, I married a liar, so he did just that.

    The one that shocked me most was when he said he never wanted either of our kids. When I reminded him that he was the one that asked me to have his baby he said, “but I expected you to say no.” He has since threatened to try to take the kids from me and told our toddlers that Homewrecker is their real mother on multiple occasions.

    He is going to rot in hell, so I am fine with whatever he says… and most importantly, my kids know who the f I am!

  • I got a things in a bit different order from Cheater #1. I got, “You’re too fat, you’re too ugly and I deserve something better. I’m leaving, goodbye.” (I was 5’8” and a size 12. Ugly, maybe, but not fat.). He’d gotten a job offer for his dream job on the east coast, and we were planning our move, having already signed the lease on an apartment. I also had a job waiting in the new city and had given notice at my job. He was gone for three days, then slinked back into the house when I was at work. He loved me despite my faults, he never should have left me and he would never do such a thing again. D-day was a few days later, the night before his commencement ceremonies from the university of his choice. Turns out he’d left to go live with the mistress, but she wouldn’t support him financially like I did, so he came back. I’d spent years working extra shifts to pay for his tuition, books and toys. He vowed it was all a mistake, he hadn’t planned it, it just happened. He never meant to hurt me, honest, and it would never happen again.

    I moved across the country, leaving my friends and family behind. A year later was the second D-day. I gave him 72 hours to move out before I changed the locks and threw his stuff out the window. I thought that was generous.

    • “You’re too fat, you’re too ugly and I deserve something better. I’m leaving, goodbye.”

      😡 That’s a punchworthy statement if I ever heard one. It’s not enough for them to cheat and leave, they have to be as cruel as possible as they go about it. Monsters.

      • Exactly. It shows how evil they are. It’s not enough to cheat, destroy a home, leave and cause all kinds of chaos. They must cut you down when you are sobbing as they run off with your heart.

      • Isnt it awful that we are so broken when they say this shit that we often dont even respond appropriately (appropriate being GTFO) ? Shortly after DDay, I was DEEP in the Pick Me Dance and we went out for a walk…(18 years later) I can tell you the exact spot where we were when he said ” today I was chatting about goals with a friend and told him that my goal is to get a trophy wife”

        What the actual fuck? I was his apparently-not-trophy wife and he was eager to dump me and I stayed ….the Hopium was strong with me.

        It was bizarre irony when a friend of forever husband told me when we were dating that I was a trophy (then apologized for objectifying me which was the decent thing to do.)

        My much-healed self cant believe that that sort of abuse was so common, I barely noticed. I now realize that he genuinely hated me but literally stayed because he wasn’t strong enough to take accountability for leaving.

        • This is true for me as well: “I now realize that he genuinely hated me but literally stayed because he wasn’t strong enough to take accountability for leaving.”
          FW treated me with contempt for YEARS. But he stayed in the house and acted like a victim. We went to see a divorce attorney and she said, you can move out. And he was like, no.

        • Ugh. Also went for a walk a few days after Dday. I kept thinking he was going to take my hand and tell me this was all a mistake. This is where the mask fell off and I was destroyed. I was caught so off guard by his blaming me.
          There should be a ‘what I would do differently post’
          I would tell him he was evil, to shut the fuck up and to get out and stay out.

  • We went on a trip to Puerto Rico – a surprise for me from him – three weeks before D-Day to celebrate our 13-year anniversary and my upcoming birthday. How’s that for timing?!

    Before D-Day:

    “She’s just a friend.” And actually wrote me a poem (snort) reassuring me that he would never leave me and that his relationships with “other people” were completely above-board. He made sure to emphasize that he worked very hard to understand and accept the fact that I was “extremely insecure.”

    The best part? He titled his masterpiece “The Jealousy Monster”

    After D-Day:

    “I never wanted to be married, to anyone, ever.” (Rich indeed – I was his third wife.)

    “You’ve changed. You’re mean and intolerant.” (Intolerant of sharing my husband with another woman? Guilty as charged, sir.)

    Knowing that I couldn’t/wouldn’t leave our family home (I was unemployed at the time – lookin’ at you, spring 2020 – and my only child was graduating from HS. I didn’t want to disrupt my son’s life any more than Covid already had), FW moved himself into a spare bedroom, blocked me from all social media, and renovated our house to put on the market. Every few weekends, he would inform me that he was going to take a break from said renovations to fly down to Florida to visit his AP. He began to distance himself from my son, who had relied on him as a father figure for 14 years of his life at that point. Living with that sort of emotional abuse earned me a clinical PTSD dx and a whole lot of therapy.

    • The FW step- parent is HORRIBLE. The children have already been through a lot if their parent ends up remarrying. They rely heavily on this new stability and presence in their life. In my case, poof- one day to the next my kids lost their beloved stepfather. Shortly after he married the formerly married OW who also had kids.
      These people are next level fucked up evil.

  • I got things in a bit different order. 45 years ago, Cheater #1 left me a week before his graduation from the university of his choice. I’d been working double shifts, extra shifts and coupon clipping like mad to pay for his tuition, books, lab fees, etc. Also his toys, gifts and discretionary funds, which were far more money than mine. Things were fine, I thought. We were planning to move across the country so he could take his dream job, we’d already signed a lease for an apartment and I, too had a job waiting in the new city. Then he he waiting for me one day when I came home from work and said, “You’re too fat, you’re too ugly and I deserve something better. I’m leaving, goodbye.” And he left.

    Three days later, he slunk back in while I was at work. He was sorry, he’d made a terrible mistake. He loved me, and only me and he’d never leave me again.And three days after that was D-Day. He’d left to move in with his mistress, but she wouldn’t support him in the manner to which he was accustomed, so he had to leave. He loved me, only me. He was sorry; he’d made a terrible mistake. He didn’t intend to betray me, it just happened. It would never happen again. So we moved across the country, away from my friends and family. And D-Day #2 came a year later. This time, I gave him 72 hours to move out before I changed the locks. I thought that was generous.

  • I have thought a lot about this pre and post DDay thing. It’s why I think it is so so essential for those on the fence with their relationship to lay down some boundaries and see what happens. For me, I’d had so many DDays that there wasn’t a huge pre and post difference. But when I started saying No to him? Huge rage channel and manipulation came out. But he was getting desperate so it escalated quickly and became very obvious which enabled me to stop falling for it. What a gift it was when he got angry at me!

    • I really got a lot of rage during separation / mediation, and post divorce whenever I told (or still tell him) no, or I’m not crazy about that idea, let me think about it. Mind you, I keep my no brief, and to the point, without any editorializing or name calling. His responses? So vitriolic sometimes. I just screenshot, save, and don’t respond. Or repeat my prior, bland response. If you want someone to accommodate you, maybe be nice? Eventually he calms down and tries to be reasonable if he’s trying to ask for custody day swaps or something. I used to fall for the rage, he knew how to press my buttons, make me feel like a bad mother or bad wife for not agreeing to what he wanted. I’ve realized I shouldn’t value the opinion of someone that didn’t believe lunchables needed to be refrigerated. They really hate it when you figure out what boundaries are, don’t they?

  • Ex was saying we should have another child and I wanted another child too. When I found out I was pregnant, he didn’t appear happy. I was confused.
    He also wanted to go out and buy me a new car. I said we should wait until we were in a better place financially. I didn’t budge, I was happy with the car I had (I still have it).
    Next, he wanted me to go out with him and ‘his friends’ from work (OW was one of these). I didn’t go out as it was a night out drinking and I was pregnant and also feeling really sick.

    He wanted to compare me and the OW on this night out, I’m sure of it. I didn’t oblige and he was really annoyed I wouldn’t go out.

    Anyway, that’s when things changed for me. I knew something wasn’t right, but I clung on for a few more months and got the ‘I think I should move out for a bit. I’ve never lived on my own’. It’s amazing they use all the same lines.

    He did move out and it was a complete headf***. I thought he was depressed. He wasn’t! He was just an entitled prick. I went through hell and back after this with his nonsense and somehow gave birth to a healthy baby girl.

    • Cheaters who abandon pregnant women are the scum of the earth. So sorry you went through this and I hope you’re doing well now.

  • Off topic: Glad to see new comment section. Hope it works better than the last one.
    On topic:
    Not just for before and after D- Days with cheaters, for any relationship with dysfunctional people in your life, including family, so-called friends, and co-workers, remember they have something wrong with them. It is nothing you did. They delight in duping others, no matter how long it takes. Do not think you caused anything or could have changed anything. You can do a self-inventory and work on changes YOU want to accomplish for yourself. Don’t do it for them.

    Why would your parents treat you differently from your siblings. Don’t know, they were in power over you and may be living out past rage issues. Not your fault. Don’t feel bad about what they did. They were adults, you were their child. Who do you think was responsible? Why would your friend ditch you for another person, and then expect you to still be a friend? Don’t know, they have unrealistic expectations. Why would your boss take credit for your work, and seem happy to throw you under the bus when you make him look good? Don’t know, he thinks great employees grow on trees, his loss.

    See the pattern? Don’t waste your time worrying why they were so horrible. Just be glad you found out they don’t know what reciprocity is. Be glad they are gone, and you started your new life. Believe you deserve better. That is what is important. These folks are truly horrible. Be glad they are out of your life!

    Some of the stories of discard on this site are truly stomach turning — none resemble anything a sane person would do. You can’t fix this kind of crazy. Be grateful you survived, and you don’t ever have to believe in this person again. It is a hard lesson, but at least you can be free.

    • Portia, very true!!
      I would add that family issues can make one more prone for tolerating abuse. I am a middle child who was treated much different than siblings by very abusive mother. This led to fear of rejection because of abandonment in terms of emotional support. I therefore have looked for approval from others and through achievement. That has caused me to accept abuse. Understanding this is helping me not to put my issues on my son.
      BTW this was not self diagnosis. On Dday I asked FW to see Psychiatrist because I think she is bipolar (Probably is her mom had it and took her life as a result). Her idiot NP at that time had her on antidepressants with a diagnosis of depression. Antidepressants are wrong treatment for bipolars. It makes them more manic. Well after agreeing to see Psychiatrist she backed out, so I went. It has been very helpful.

    • This.

      It’s hard for us normal people to understand, but there are lizards in human skin out there who delight in hurting the ones closest to them. We do nothing to deserve this treatment, it’s how they treat everyone.

      My uncle enjoyed screwing people over. He told us for 25 years that he couldn’t pay for anything because he was dealing with a bankruptcy. Turns out he’d discharged the bankruptcy in 1994. He also didn’t tell us he lived rent-free with his mother and was siphoning her for money for years, even as my dad gave him money and jobs to “help him get on his feet.”

      We didn’t learn the truth until the end of his life. He thought he was so clever screwing over the only people who cared about him.

    • Portia, I love it!!
      “Don’t waste your time worrying why they were so horrible. Just be glad you found out they don’t know what reciprocity is. Be glad they are gone, and you started your new life. Believe you deserve better. That is what is important. These folks are truly horrible. Be glad they are out of your life!”

  • In the last couple months leading up to D-day.. my boyfriend and I were figuring out the logistics of him quitting his job to pursue a dream that would pay significantly less.. like basically nothing for a while. But it was his dream, I knew in my heart he could succeed, and if not now, when? His 9-5 was open for him to come back if we decided it wasn’t going to work so there really wasn’t much holding him back.. I even offered to pay his CC debt it took him a DECADE to inform me about that he’s been paying only the interest for years. (To which he told me in the middle of a restaurant so I couldn’t be upset!) and I think caught him off guard when I said jokingly “..since I don’t see you going anywhere anytime soon”. Jokes on me tho 🤷‍♀️ We were moving furniture around the house and preparing a room for him to work out of. I’ve spoken before about how different we were with money.. me worrying and saving and him spending as though he has more than 2 dimes to rub together. I stupidly thought his anxiety right before d-day was him realizing his naivety re: his budgeting skills and how it would be difficult in the coming months though I was prepared for it because again, I stupidly had faith in this man! But nah.. wasn’t until after d-day I realized the anxiety was because SHE found out he was sexting other people (another twitch streamer friend who broke it off when she found out about me, and a fucking viewer which is all sorts power imbalance ick) and she was upset with him lying to her! ..not realizing the entirety of their relationship had been a lie up to this point because we were neither in an open relationship nor was I a consenting party in the poly thing he told her I was. But he was sooooo upset at the end of Dec/early Jan because of it and I did everything I could to cheer him up 🙄 Again, jokes on me.

    After d-day or rather the night of confrontation suddenly he isn’t happy and def isnt in love with me anymore. Suddenly he doesn’t see a future with me, or rather the future he sees isn’t one he wants (which is fair because I wouldn’t want him to stay with me out of obligation.. however the disrespect is another ballgame). Suddenly there’s a list of everything he hates about me, and SUDDENLY he and his brother have been talking about how they’re both terrible partners because they didn’t grow up in a healthy household (did any of us?!) and he’s realized how unhappy he’s been. All of this had been going on and he never thought “damn I’m so unhappy I should break up with her” though.

    MF’er didn’t have an excuse when I mentioned how his affair had been going on since at least September and his sudden enlightenment only occurred in January when d-day was Feb 28th so.. what about the rest of those months? Radio silence.

    I did get “I thought you’d be more mad” which I now read as “I thought you’d do all the breaking up so I wouldn’t look like the bad guy who had his exit affair lined up”.

  • I was in the process of adopting now XW’s biological special needs child (her first husband was a deadbeat that ironically cheated on her) when D-Day happened. I ended up completing the adoption because a) I love the kid, and b) he can’t help it if his mom is a FW with no soul.
    BTW, the “I Love You But I’m Not In Love With You” CL post linked above was from me!

  • Before DDay: “I love you, deeply. We’re in it for the long haul. And weirdly, like so many others, we were buying an apartment. On the morning we were supposed to go to contract, he filed for divorce instead. And I didn’t find out for weeks.

    After DDay: “I should have known we were a bad match when you confessed that you only had $8 to your name.”
    Fun fact: That occurred during the first few months of our relationship, more than 30 years ago. We laughed about it at the time.

    Also a fun fact: His new wife was even poorer than I was when they started up. I’m now convinced that the poverty of his supply is a feature, not a bug. Easier to impress. And control.

  • It’s a hard one because just before DDay (for a few years) our marriage was declining. Before that he was wonderful and told me I was the love of his life, etc. etc. But prior to DDay he was never home, checked out, stressed and just not in the marriage. I was trying hard to figure out what to do. He said he was just stressed at work and having trouble in his career. I asked if he was cheating and he said no. He wasn’t happy with our sex life but wouldn’t tell me what he wanted to do. He never once said he was unhappy in our marriage. On DDay he tried to have sex with me. He wanted an open marriage – live with me half the time and his new thing the other half of the time. When I said no to that bad offer, he got mean, cruel and abusive. He kept telling everyone that he didn’t want to leave me but I gave him no choice because he “needed” to have his schmoopie. He became a different person and he’s a terrible and neglectful father. He was a doting father before DDay. Then after he left I discovered the extent of his deceit and cheating. Turns out I was pretty much married to a con artist psychopath.

      • “Stress at work” I now realize was when they caught a strip club charge on corporate travel card. He told me the ethics charge was his secretary’s fault and I believed it, Chumpy-me

  • Going to put a different twist on this, because things aren’t centered on the ex, these days.

    Before: I was unhappy. I made myself terribly small in order to be a less appealing target of assorted rages. My kids made themselves scarce if he was here, and so did I. Terror was being stuck alone with him—particularly in a vehicle, but really anywhere—for any length of time.

    After: After dday, after divorce, and after getting that poisonous presence permanently out of here, things are peaceful. I’m just now reaching the oft cited “one year of recovery for every five years of marriage” milestone, and I feel lighter, freer, more creative, and much healthier in every respect. Turns out that my adult children, when asked how I am doing, always tell people that mom is thriving, and that is now both aspirational and true. They are embarrassed when asked about their dad, his shotgun wedding, his child bride, and his geriatric fatherhood.

    Had the exterior of my house (it was always truly mine) washed today, and everything is right about both the sparkly cleanliness of this place and the faint smell of bleach that lingers. This is the summer of spiffing things up, inside and out, and it is a glorious thing, indeed, to make that happen at a relaxed and joyful pace.

    This ordinary and imperfect life? Truly a gift. Definitely a difficult gift to receive. Took a good bit of time and work to accept it, but it keeps becoming a bigger and better gift over the years, whereas marriage was quite the opposite, despite long and faithful effort.

    It’s a good thing to let whatever cheaters said or did just dissolve and wash away. Their words are devoid of meaning.

    • I like your focus! Good to read about the other side of this and the learning that comes from

    • From Cashmere: “Before: I was unhappy. I made myself terribly small in order to be a less appealing target of assorted rages. My kids made themselves scarce if he was here, and so did I. Terror was being stuck alone with him—particularly in a vehicle, but really anywhere—for any length of time.”

      I went through much the same thing with two different cheaters. Making my needs small so that his could take center stage, making myself scarce if he was there. The terror of being alone with him in a car or even, sometimes, in our home. The rages were so frightening; especially if he was playing with his collection of knives or swords while raging. Now I live alone in my own peaceful home.

  • I got an offer to move to a retirement home in a place close to our grandchildren. He was extremely enthusiastic about the idea. Total future fake. He would never have retired, because the slut only dates guys from work (the easier to hide trysts as “work lunches”) and he knew it would have been over if he retired. He still hasn’t retired, even though they broke up, because thanks to losing dual incomes he needs the money. 😁

    He also decided we should buy an expensive electric car, which later he admitted was because he thought being in debt together meant I wouldn’t leave if he was caught. Wrong. I kept the car and paid it off. He drives an old beater.

    Another fake was a trip we took in which he told me I was beautiful several times a day, leaned in to listen to me when I was speaking, and generally acted like an adoring husband on his second honeymoon.
    After Dday he said he didn’t know why he’d done that.

    After the post Dday desperation period where he was trying to keep cake by saying that he loved me and didn’t want me to leave was over, he snarled that he wouldn’t take me back. I hadn’t asked him to. It was just the old “you can’t fire me cuz I quit” lameness. Or better, isn’t there a country song where the guy says the woman didn’t leave him, she just beat him to the door? That’s what FW tells himself. 🤡

  • I asked repeatedly if anything was wrong (some moodiness, distance). I was told everything was great, I worry too much – I still kept getting the beautiful cards speaking to our future, presents etc… We are about to go on a big holiday. I had never heard of the term “gaslighting’ – my first therapist said that it sounds like I had been gaslit and I told her that I wasn’t! ! !
    After Dday, gentle, loving man turned ugly. I had never heard a complaint, I had always asked how he was feeling, and then suddenly I was told how incredibly horrible I was. I was even blamed for getting married! He went from being emotionally cruel to having a pity party about how he shouldn’t have moved out of his place. There were word salads about how we had a great relationship so we shouldn’t have gotten married.
    If only we hadn’t gotten married we’d still be together… Needless to say he married the office whore and is now step dada to her children.

    • Here too. FW said he “never wanted to get married.” Oh, when were you going to tell me that? It’s been 30 years!

  • Everyone — I’m aware there is an issue with the comments. My IT folks are working on it and it’s a holiday weekend. Sorry for the frustration!

    I’ll update as I know more.

  • Before D-day: projected good guy, but superficial at best.
    After D-day: a complete dick.

    That’s actually not true. He continued to gaslight me, saying we could work things out ourselves and just use lawyers to do the paperwork.
    Then hired the meanest lawyer in town — it was the lawyers last case — my ex had consulted with him 3YEARS prior to determine how much a divorce would cost him. Told me they were putting forth a good offer — it was beyond insulting. Once he realized I could not be manipulated anymore — straight to mean, nasty dick, dick, dick.

    On the AshleyMadison site, I think we should all sign up, meet up with someone and read them the riot act at the date. Whether you wait until after dinner is up to you. If they have hundreds of these encounters, it is certain to damage their reputation among their sleezebag clients.

    • My gut tells me FW consulted a lawyer years ago and decided it was cheaper and more convenient to “stay married” until the youngest graduated from high school. He lived here for 10 years and treated me with contempt. Did no housework. He mostly ignored his kids. Spent his time “running” or somewhere. I finally confronted him and kicked him out. Still not divorced. That’s on my to-do list. But, yes. My gut tells me he did this all on purpose to look like the long-suffering spouse who “stayed for the kids.” But really he “stayed for his wallet.”

  • After many months of dating (and 2 years of friendship before that), he told me he loved me and asked me to move across the country to be with him.

    A week later, he cheated in front of me at a party. I fled only to find an email from him that night, dumping me and rewriting the entirety of our relationship. He said we were never “together”, he’d never loved me, things had changed and we were no longer compatible.

    I found out later he had a fiancée the whole time. I HAD NO IDEA. He’d never mentioned her! Not in years of knowing each other!

    This experience fucked me up for years and made me question every human interaction I had for a long time. I don’t know how any of you people here didn’t suffer heart attacks from being married to these turds. Knowing this guy just as a friend and then boyfriend set me back a decade and required trauma therapy.

    In hindsight, the red flags were always there with this guy, I just didn’t know how to read them at the time. I projected my own kindness and honesty onto him. I had no idea these people existed.

    • I did marry one and yes the trauma of the sudden shock of realizing your ‘best’ friend had been stabbing you and your family in the back all the while pretending to care deeply about you – was almost unbearable. I also thought these people were only in the movies- never thought I’d meet one, let alone marry such a fake.

    • Yes, you’re right about this: “I projected my own kindness and honesty onto him. I had no idea these people existed.”

      We are seeing them through our own golden lenses of kindness. Having no idea that they are really just energy vampires looking to dupe someone to see them as golden.

  • Sorry to break with the theme but FW became ecstatic after I found out about her “emotional affair”. Her response was “I guess we have to get a divorce because I know how you feel about cheaters”
    I think it was that she no longer needed to live a double life. She tried to do damage control and told people I was telling lies about her which was believable because she had been character assassinating me while being loving to my face for at least 5 years. She was done. It was sad that we had a family trip we went on a week after dday and she smiled laughed the whole trip like it was no big deal she wanted a divorce. At one point during a family dinner, while I was dying inside and miserable, she looked at me with a big smile and said “why can’t you just enjoy the moment” and ordered a bottle of wine.

    • The ice queen, good thing you cleared her out of your field. Let someone else deal with that bitch, she’s completely soulless Dr. chump.

      • Crazy that was after 21 years of her being a doting, caring perfect wife. That is the mindf#%k of it. Next month will be 2 years from blindsided Dday. Time has helped but still can’t believe it

        • Fuckface is an evil sociopathic monster. They are not human. They are soulless hollow carcasses with zero empathy.

    • I’m sorry. Mine was like that too. All giddy after I found out he was cheating. It was horrible.

    • That is cruel!! It’s because in their minds they’ve already divorced you and grieved and moved on. They are annoyed that you are just now finding out and have the audacity to be upset. They dealt with it years ago. It’s just cruel. That was my FW too.

  • hooray!! – I checked back at 8:45 PM (central time) and I see that the old system is back. Even if it is only for a little while (while the new system gets tweaked, maybe?), I am grateful!

    Thank you!

  • Before D day I was told I was “the cheese” his special expression for being the only woman he desired. I sated his appetite. He was always on the fence about our life, where we lived, his many jobs, but about his singular attraction for only me, he was consistent. I believed him and found it deeply stabilizing among all his many other flip-flops and ambivalences. About me being his only desired woman was the sure thing, the stable truth. D day arrived in such an ugly way, finding their commingled fluids all over the bottom of his French-cuff work shirt tossed carelessly in our laundry basket for me to find easily. After D day it was her lips were nice and full
    compared with mine, her youth (35 years younger than me – and him!), her sexual innocence, her long blonde hair compared to my greyish short cut, etc… as the wreckonciliation wore on I could see her was turning to me as his confidante, telling me intimate details about everything. She had sent me dozens of videos and photos of them together, also private dances she had done for him. It was quite an eye-full that burned my chest all night the night she sent them. He enjoyed telling me about her, mocking her, denigrating her to me, like it would smooth my hurt feelings to hear him tell me all the dumb stuff about her. That she “knew how to play him” by offering sex every time he wanted to leave. It was all so sickening to me, and yet I was so used to being his close person, used to knowing his life, that this over sharing went on and on. It was like he had been wanting me to know all this stuff he experienced. He was so self-centered and psycho that he couldn’t imagine how he was stabbing me in the heart. And yet I wanted to know details, to talk like we always had. It took several weeks of this then I had enough and I said I didn’t want to hear any more. I could sense there are certain couples, like sicko Jeffrey Epstein probably with that English freak woman, where she had probably been in love with him and then it turned into her being in on his disgusting abuse. I felt like he was trying to turn me into his sex confidante, oblivious to my pain and getting his thrills this new way. He was trying to turn me into his “buddy” seamlessly and painlessly for him, while I was still (and am still) his grieving wife and devastated by the loss of my role as his love. His cheese. He will never know how I feel. I have no contact at all and the divorce only needs the judge’s signature. No cheese, no cake, no buddy, no confidante. It’s all been sick. Seamless for him because he knew all along what he was doing. It’s all so sick, so many details that strike me. I don’t want intimate love again in this lifetime.

    • I’m so sorry how much he hurt you Emma. I’m crying reading your post right now. What a total prick! I’m still shocked by the deep cuts these a-holes inflict, it’s mind blowing, that level of cruelty. These are really very sick ppl that can do something like that to someone they know loves them so deeply. Why?! There is no way he will be a happy, contented man in his life, he has no soul.
      I feel the same way about intimate love in my life, I don’t ever want it again. Sometimes you just can’t fix that kind of level of pain and make it right. I’m happy for ppl that move on and find love again. It isn’t even on my list of things to do, I’m done with that.
      I have found out that I enjoy my own company and I’m alone, but not lonely. That works for me. All the best to you. I’m glad you are free from that sick man, it’s way way better to be alone than with him.

      • Chumpasaurus45, Thank you so much for your empathetic response. It’s really therapeutic to write these things out and connect with others in the same boat. So glitchy today though I’ll be surprised if this goes through – 15 attempts!

      • Agreed. Finding a partner is not on my to-do list. I have so much to do to rebuild my life away from the FW. As many of the other writers here, I am not to far from retirement and now have to figure out where to live, how to retire, what the future will look like for me, my kids, my mom (who lives with me). It’s a lot to have to figure out alone. But alone is better than partnered with a passive-aggressive selfish, secretive asshole.

      • Replying generally to say Chumpasaurus45 and Emma, your stories are in many ways similar to mine and I am sorry for what you went through. I was dumped just three months short of my 60th. No kids between us (he will have adult step kids and grandchildren with exgfOW and may they make his life hell). I have to work full time to pay the mortgage and at 63 I can see no end in sight. Meanwhile, Mr ‘I’m Single’ has suffered no financial consequences of any sort. There is no way on this earth that I will ever have an intimate relationship again. In my life, online, in my family, I see examples of so many awful men and women that I have no desire to let anyone get close to me. And that’s my decision after a lot of therapy which is ongoing. The trauma when he ramped up the discard, almost exactly 4 years ago while my father was dying and I was very vulnerable, will never leave me. I still have nightmares about it. I would rather be lonely sometimes than live with an attempted murderer of my mental, physical and emotional health. I do hope that exgfOW suffers the same abuse and she’s got only herself to blame because she knew in advance that he was abusive. I had no reason to suspect, and I was an excellent example of the frog slowly brought up to boiling point.

  • I made a list of around 50 things that I wanted to do in retirement. FW read the list and said those were exactly what he would want on his list. We were always very compatible, even with some different interests scattered in there.
    At his corporate retirement party, which was hundreds of ppl and our three children present, I got up for a speech saying how much I looked forward to retiring with my best friend and how grateful I was to have journeyed through this life with him. ( I was with him 44 years then and he was with his company for 38 years) So many dear and long time friends in the audience, it was an emotional night. I felt like I was retiring too. I’ve never seen wives speak at these events before and I’m not a relaxed public speaker, but I felt compelled to do it for the love of my life. It was important to me to share my thanks and memories. He smiled, teared up and seemed very touched that I spoke. He is an excellent speaker, and brought my name many times into his speech and how much he loved me and looked forward to our retirement together. It was a charmed evening.
    A few weeks later at our beach house for a family reunion, he told me he loved me but was not in love with me and had been traveling back and forth via air to visit his Schmoopie of five YEARS, who he would be leaving me for and retiring with her!
    I couldn’t process any of it, it seemed utterly surreal, I was numb. He said we’d grown apart and had nothing in common anymore. I brought up the retirement list that I wrote, that he couldn’t believe he wanted to do the same exact things in retirement that I had listed, as an example of what we had in common.
    He then said, yeah, he did want to do those things, but not the same way I wanted to do them. (How many different ways are there to play golf?!🤷‍♀️⛳️)
    He was just blowing smoke at me until he didn’t have to explain his about face to anyone, like the fact that he was running off with his mistress! He wanted them to always see him as “ the legend”, a title I’ve heard many times at company functions. He was retired and free to destroy his life at his leisure. What a legend he is!!
    They are all so phoney, I doubt they ever remember what they even tell us, it gets them past a temporary obstacle in their way and then they get to move on to more entertaining and shady activities, where they would most like to invest their time in. Friends I know from the company were as shocked as I was and comments were “ has he lost him mind?!” Yep, he has.

    • ” I doubt they ever remember what they even tell us, it gets them past a temporary obstacle in their way and then they get to move on to more entertaining and shady activities, where they would most like to invest their time in.”

      I agree.

      • Agree, agree, agree. What they say never makes any sense and for them it doesn’t need to – it’s a distraction so we will be occupied trying to untangle the skein or blame ourselves for their terrible behavior

    • My god, what a story… yes, he waited to save his reputation. How disgusting. I didn’t realize before how those so close could be so totally corrupt. This keeps getting zapped away so it’s hard to write more. So very sorry you were treated like this. You write very well. Probably you speak much better in public than he ever did.

    • What an evil monster!! I’m so sorry you were abused like that. May his dick shrivel up and fall off!! Prick.

    • I am so sorry! He lied to you, his family, and his company. He will be a “legend” for the wrong reasons. What a dick!

  • We had just bought our ‘dream’ home and moved (I fought moving for so long). I worked a second job (already the breadwinner and through divorce and with me paying alimony, am 65.6% income) to make it happen and keep the previous house as a rental. Lived in new house 45 days. Found out I was pregnant with twins two days after the ‘im not happy. Big house and fancy cars aren’t everything. I’m not sure we’re right for each other’ bomb. Asked point blank if he was seeing someone else. Denied it. After DDay, “I chose you”. “Wanted to see how it went with the babies” then the ultimate mindfuckery of DARVO/pretend suicide attempt that led him to a 30 day mental health and rehab facility on my dime. Not anymore.

  • I didn’t get the bait and switch at D-day. Instead, he was weirdly cranky with me in the weeks/months leading up to D-day. He was picking stupid fights over the smallest, stupidest things, and getting so mean. I couldn’t figure it out. Until I discovered he was cheating. Then it all made sense.

    After D-day, he started getting all giddy when he would go see her. That was also horrible. In a different way.

    As for cake, mine wanted to get caught. He wanted me to catch him so he would have an excuse to leave or be thrown out. So, yeah, not exactly a cake eater.

    At any rate. It’s irrelevant what kind of cheater he was/is. It all sucks.

    • Yea, mine was giddy after I caught her as well. I think she did everything she could to get caught. Probably was frustrating to her that I missed all the red flags because I only saw the hood in her and trusted her

    • Ugh I’m so sorry! It was very similar with my ex, picking fights and especially the giddiness part. Makes me sick to my stomach…

    • Mine wanted to be caught too. He repeatedly put himself in a position where it was inevitable that he would be seen with OW by people I knew at some point.
      Then, after getting exactly what he was expecting, instead of using it as a way to leave, he flip-flopped and tried to claim he wanted to reconcile. He’s still angry that I left, because I took control of the situation rather than him. When push came to shove he wanted me to stick around for more abuse until he he found an AP worth leaving for.

      “After D-day, he started getting all giddy when he would go see her. That was also horrible. In a different way.”

      Gives you the creeps, doesn’t it? I would get cold chills thinking of it. Mine broke up with OW at Dday, but got giddy talking about his cheating. He talked about it in gruesome detail, even in front of his daughter. What a horror show! There’s no chance that they wouldn’t cheat again when it thrills them that much.

  • In hindsight, the oddest thing was that now Ex-Mrs LFTT’s behaviour in the two years before D-Day was pretty “off” …… but nothing that I could definitively put my finger on. At no stage did I suspect that she was cheating, but I did have significant concerns about her drinking and her demeanour towards our kids and me; to say that she seemed to go out of her way to provoke us and then act the victim when any of us reacted is an understatement. We were permanently walking on eggshells as a result.

    It was once D-Day arrived (the kids – then 11, 16 and 18 – found out and then told me), she really amped up the crazy, all while denying the affair despite the evidence being utterly incontrovertible. It was as if she was punishing us for finding our her dirty little secret …… unfortunately, the cheating wasn’t the only sordid little secret that she was keeping from us.


  • Before D-Day: For 18 years everything seemed great – idyllic, loving. We spent as much time together as we could outside of our respective work schedules. I thought we were as close as any two people could be.
    About 6 months – a year before D-day (hard to tell exactly) things started to get weird. Things we used to always do together he would do alone (or maybe not alone…) and he’d disappear, wouldn’t tell me where he was going. Wouldn’t answer questions, respond to texts or talk about what was going on. He acted like he was just so busy with work and harassed by clients that he didn’t have time to talk to me. He’s never been a workaholic or even particularly good at his job – and turns out he wasn’t answering his clients either – one of them told me they thought ex was out of town because he didn’t answer their multiple calls/ texts/ emails regarding urgent questions about the status of the construction project for 2 weeks. Anytime we were together he picked fights and then blamed the fight on me “you’ve been acting angry with me for 6 months!” he yelled once. Most of all I noticed that during this time he wouldn’t look me in the eyes.
    D-Day: It was so obvious something was the matter. I forced the confrontation he kept avoiding. At first he said he was too stressed out by everything else in his life and didn’t want to be in a relationship anymore because it just added one more burden to his list of burdens. He listed a bunch of gripes that didn’t have anything to do with me causing and that I was actually helping him to solve. That all didn’t make sense to me. Then he said we were “never really compatible”. That I was “too controlling” (nothing could be further from the truth – I put up with all sorts of his shenanigans and went along with his plans most of the time). And that he could never discuss these issues with me because I was too sensitive and that there was something seriously wrong with me, that I wasn’t normal in my relentless self-criticism. Oh and he also met OW: “she means nothing to me, I hardly know her, but I really want to see where it’s going to go”

    • All of this rings true to me as well. Having to confront the covert narc, he totally blameshifts, says I’m controlling, yada yada. Do they read from a script? It’s all about wanting to scurry about in the shadows and as long as we don’t call them out on their shit they can see themselves as normal. But once you put the spotlight on them, they hate you for showing them as they truly are.

  • My Cheater didnt fit the common mold here in that he flip flopped a number of times before we married. He promised and future faked then ran then came back then married then blamed me for “forcing him to marry” (I didnt) then acting like he hated marriage but never had the backbone to leave with integrity.

    I think my Cheater was a covert narc – who wanted to have his cake and eat it too – WAY early in the game. He was terrible at making decisions because deciding on one thing meant excluding others. He loved nothing more that creating a range of fabulous options to choose from (universities, girlfriends, jobs, houses, cars) then basking in the options. He then had choosers-regret over anything he chose – most importantly, me.

    I now realize that he never wanted to marry and looked for weasel ways out before and after the wedding – he tried everything except the truth and actual accountability. He wanted out and he wanted me to pull the trigger BUT, he liked cake, the social clout of a good wife, and an efficeint spousal appliance that took care of EVERYTHING.

    He also seemed to really want kids, but the complete follow-through with them was a challenge for him. When he was trying to get me to move so that he could get me and OW in the same city, our oldest kid was entering his senior year and Cheater literally wanted to give him away to a friend’s family. (some people do this benevolently when circumstances warrant, but he had no benevolence – only selfishness). Years later, I learned that this family and my son had a falling-out that I was never told of and he wasn’t even allowed in their house. Can you imagine if Cheater had hung his hat on that option and then learned it wasn’t one, he would have lost his shit. As it turned out, I refused to go along with any of it.

    Sometimes I get so mad at myself for falling into this trap that held me for so long, but in moments when I am kind to me, I admit that he played me like a fiddle.

    • Unicornnomore, covert narc over here too. He can’t take action, make a decision, or take any responsibility for his life choices. He blames me for everything and tells his sons that I ruined his life. But also, never had a plan, never had any goals, never grew as a person. Not exactly leadership material. I found out too late!! A terrible example of a father and a spineless coward as a partner. I can get more done alone. He’s out of the house and I finally wake up to PEACE. I still have to file for divorce. He never will. He’s useless.

      • “He can’t take action, make a decision, or take any responsibility for his life choices. He blames me for everything … also, never had a plan, never had any goals, never grew as a person.”

        Blame blame blame all day long every day. He never took accountability for anything. He once screamed bloody murder at me when the kids were like 2, 7, & 9 that we couldn’t go to Rome (like THAT day). I said “we could if we plan, we need to set a date, get off work, save money, maybe get a credit card with travel points to get cheaper tickets…” he became even more annoyed and said “Im not going to PLAN” (with the word plan spoken like he was talking about a disease).

        I am pretty sure that he didnt actually want to take 3 kids to Rome, but he wanted to tell me that I sucked because we couldn’t do it that minute. He was likely fucking some coworker and needed to salve his conscience.

        Epilogue: Ive been to Rome twice since he died. The last time I stayed in a medieval tower. For the record, I wouldn’t take a 2yr old to Rome…I waited until she was a sr in HS.

        My Cheater did have career plans/goals but they were honestly too big..he HAD to be a business tycoon…ignored a good, reasonable career (working for others) to start a business that he did not have the money to launch properly. One of his friends did start a business and have made many millions…when I realized how rich and successful they were, I was so relieved he wasn’t there to see it, it would have eaten him alive.

      • “But also, never had a plan, never had any goals, never grew as a person.”

        This is my FW to a proverbial T.

        “He’s out of the house and I finally wake up to PEACE.”

        👍 The peace alone is priceless.

    • Hi Unicornomore,
      I can so relate to having a husband (now thankfully in the past, albeit only recently) who flip flopped on me all the time. He said it was because he was bipolar or a Pisces rising or…. Most often my fault for whatever I was doing “wrong” [toothpaste squeezing wrongly was a fave, leaving sponge in the sink, not wearing sexy clothes, letting grey roots peep out, being “polemic”, my having two kids from previous marriage, oh, pretty much anything that was letting him know for half a second he was the center of the universe]). What was I saying? Oh yes, I wanted to say that I am no longer mad at myself for being such a sucker, or chump. I suddenly woke up yesterday and realized I wasn’t sad anymore about him, nor mad at myself about being a chump. It’s because I have turned my attention to ME and the PRESENT and my FUTURE plans. I have decided to live for me now and it’s an awesome happy feeling!! I never enjoyed that feeling for the entire 16 years of that relationship. Never. And now I can. You know, so now that’s all in the past. A tree doesn’t stop growing new leaves just cuz the past ones fell onto the ground. Humans are saddled with memory, but it no longer exists now. Today no one is cheating on me or lying to me (except many politicians, but you know, in my personal life). Today I’m making plans and living for myself with no sparkly turd at the center anymore. I’m in love with myself for putting a stop (finally!) to that focus on a character-free other human. I don’t call him by any bad name either, as for me that keeps the flame burning. I call him “what’s his name” or my former husband. I feel that “my Ex” is too possessive a way to describe something that no longer has any relevance to my life. Using the term “former husband” just quietly leaves him in the past (for me). Carrying any anger toward myself would be staying in the mess. Forgive yourself, it’s in the past now. I don’t want to carry it into my future and being mad at myself would be in aid of holding onto it. I’ve grown the new leaf now. The past is gone now. Human memory can keep it alive and burning forever, so it’s an effort, but I keep thinking of that god Januarius (spelling sorry) who has his head in two directions. But then there has to be the turn forward and onward to the new year, new time, new focus. Ok, I was in all that then, but I’ve learned many things, and now I’m not.

      • Oops, I meant he got angry and blaming when he wasn’t the center of attention.

        Also, my reply was only in response to your first comment. Sorry, I hadn’t seen your further comments and didn’t know he had died. That probably changes many things, and maybe what I wrote doesn’t apply as much. Still, the main message was to forgive yourself as a learning human living life as we go along. You are out of it now and that’s great. Yay you!

        • A further insight I’ve had about his blaming me for everything (it became such a regular thing that we had a joke if the weather was bad – I’d look at him and say “My fault, right?” and he’d say yes, of course it is [har har]). What it’s taken me this length of time in life to put together is that I had found someone (and others before him) who matched my own self-blame for everything. I had always taken on the responsibility for things that were not my fault, due my mother’s serious (never treated or even acknowledged) mental problems that I won’t go into. I know that if I wasn’t a self-blamer, self-loather, overly responsible person I would never have taken on someone like him, nor accepted being responsible for him and his stupid happiness. Never. So, part of the reason also to not be angry at myself is that I have GOT TO step out of self-blame now that another person isn’t here to project it onto me. If that lesson is not learned, a new blamer will be sought out! I won’t replace his blame of me with my own dammit. You can have an exterior enemy, or you can also be your own worst enemy once he is out of the picture. The effort is to be your own best friend, your own lover, your own number one champion. No more self-blame nor blame from demented outsiders! This comes from being raised by a person/people with serious problems they don’t take responsibility for and it’s likely that’s where the chumpism first rears its sad face.

  • I think either the trauma or healing from trauma has robbed my memories. I began a journal before D-day and kept it through the separation and divorce filing. His communication was so convoluted (word salad) that I had to keep a real-time bullshit translation. All I know is he “let me” work and plan for a retirement he’ll be spending with the OW. I bent myself into a pretzel trying to accommodate his list of requirements. At one point, I even suggested buying property in the same beach community as the OW and her husband (FW’s best friend). I was getting warmer.

    • I get that.

      I worked my self to exhaustion doing his volunteer work in the community and in politics to help him in his career.

      Don’t get me wrong I met a lot of great folks and learned a lot, but make no mistake I was doing it for him. I scrimped and saved so he could have his boat and river property he wanted, all the while him telling me as soon as our son graduated we would start getting some of the things I wanted.

      Guess again. He got all involved with his new job as captain, and was gone a lot; I thought working but he was using the mayor as his excuse. He wasn’t working he was spending his time and money with the whore.

      In my case I got to see some Karma, but still I wish I had caught on years earlier. He would have never gotten his promotion without what I did to help. The fact that he didn’t get to keep it helped a bit, but still for a bit the whore was on easy street.

  • I got the reverse bait and switch: “you never loved me”, “why did you even marry me”. Fake moral outrage designed to induce guilt, get me to defend myself etc. They all have their tricks.

  • velvet hammer’s observations feel quite familiar.

    before D-day, we had just renovated the whole house and, upon moving back in, X declared how happy he was with it, thanked me profusely for managing the renovation, and talked about how grandkids would one day visit us there, isn’t that great?

    after D-day (6 months later) he declared the house wasn’t a marriage, and he wasn’t happy in our marriage, never had been, hadn’t loved me for a long time, if he ever loved me, etc. etc. pretty stereotypical stuff. he was cruel and vicious in a few of our conversations, saying things like “you’ve given up on life. you need to rage, rage against the dying light” while his face twisted into a dark knot of rage and disgust.*

    my internal narrator (i’m a writer and i have an internal narrator) was talking to me the whole time, saying things like, ‘i don’t think so’ and ‘this is a stereotype’ and ‘does he have a tumour?’ and ‘who is this man?’ and ‘what a stupid thing to say’ because, let’s face it, these folks say stupid things in the discard phase. i just listened.

    then i called a lawyer for an hour-long consult and we started on next steps with a mediator.

    right now, i feel a lot of resentment about how much time i wasted on my X, and that includes 1 year (1 fucking year) on renovating a house, and pushing back a big writing deadline to do so. it burns my butt. a couple weeks ago, one of the kids casually mentioned that my X disparaged the renovated house, sold in the divorce, saying, “it was never to my taste. it was to your mother’s and it’s not that nice at all.”

    not that i asked him his opinions throughout, offering options and choices on almost all aspects, except for things that could not be managed from a structural perspective.

    *i have no idea what he was talking about here, as i’m an active and engaged member of society. yes, i’m 58 years old and look it. i guess he knew he couldn’t say “you’re old and i want young” because, well, that’s too much. by then he had a 20-years younger AP at work and was meeting her at the sheraton on thursday afternoons.

    i’m thinking he should rage, rage against the stereotype, but that’s just me.

  • OT; Just couldn’t resist posting this typical RIC gaslighting quote from an article about betrayal trauma;

    “Reflect on how your relationship was before the betrayal. Be honest with yourself. While what happened isn’t your fault, did you inadvertently play a role or contribute in some way? This isn’t about blaming yourself, but objectively looking at the big picture. Were you both moving in different directions anyway? Take a look at what the relationship provided you with. Did it add value or remove value from your life?”

    UBT; I must hasten to assure you it’s not your fault, but yeah, it’s kinda might be your fault inadvertently. Did you burn the meatloaf? Maybe you shouldn’t have made meatloaf. You could have offered filet mignon, you know. We’re you both moving in different directions? Why couldn’t you join Fetlife and wear a latex body suit to swinger clubs? Sharing interests does help keep the spark alive, after all. Instead you were at home, drearily nursing, wiping snotty noses and cooking meatloaf, and you didn’t even offer to smear Grey Poupon on it for your beloved.Tsk!

  • Late to this. I’ve been busy trying to hold my life together thanks to the financial damage caused by the idiot ex.

    Pre D-Day: ‘our holidays are amazing.’

    Post D-Day: ‘our holidays weren’t that great either’ (‘either’ being this addition to the list of issues where I was useless as a life partner, most of which have been mentioned by other chumps below).

    The similarity of what they say and how they behave confirms that cheaters have significant character flaws and that the only people who excuse cheaters are those with the same flaw. In the UK, blanket news coverage on the Philip Schofield cheating saga. I look at the pictures of him: fingers stuck in jeans belt loops, smirk on face and it’s obvious that he was cheating. The ex couldn’t take his hands out of his pockets during the discard, and he had exactly the same gormless smirk on his face. Drawing attention to their minuscule assets, I surmise. Well Philip sure got hit by the karma bus! I’m no contact with the ex, but I hope that he and his horrible family have been steamrollered by life’s vagaries.

  • We were looking to buy another house specifically with a large garage Ex could use as a workshop. Ex had been intentionally out of work for several years. He said he needed a big garage so he could start working from home. I couldn’t afford a mortgage, but that didn’t matter. Lucky for me, DDay 2 and 3 came before we found a suitable house. He had no qualms about putting me in a terrible financial bind while he was actively looking for an exit affair.

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