Anyone Triggered by the Epstein Case?
Today’s Friday Challenge is to discuss if you’re triggered by the Epstein case. Powerful people hiding big secrets and lots of enablers? Victims not being believed? Creepy men normalizing being creepy?
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I believe in deep, dark secret sexual basements. It’s a hazard of doing this job. For nearly 14 years I’ve pickled my brain in horror stories of sexual entitlement. If the wider public knows of this blog, they probably think of me as some potty-mouthed moralist wagging her finger at cheaters. (Okay, that’s not far off the mark.) Worse, some church lady clutching her pearls at adultery.
I see my work this way: I’m trying to un-fuck chump brains. Beyond asking “Is this relationship acceptable to you?” I want to know “How do abusers abuse?” Why do we accept their entitlement as normal? How can we look at these power dynamics differently so we can free ourselves?
Which is why the woman who broke the Epstein story — Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald — is a hero of mine. She spoke to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein. Not the power players, or the celebrities — but the actual people hurt. (I highly recommend her book: Perversion of Justice if you want a deeper dive.) The victims’ perspective told the larger story — of a huge, deep, dark secret sexual basement, and the men who wanted to cover it up.
To cover it up, they used all the tricks in the FW playbook. DARVO — these were underage “prostitutes” coming on to me! Minimization: Who among us hasn’t partied with teenagers/bought sex? Projection: My enemies are pedophiles!
I believe in cover ups.
Not because I’m prone to conspiracy theories. I don’t believe there’s a pizza parlor in DC with pedos in the basement. But I do believe FWs try very hard to preserve their power, because I see these dynamics every day on this blog. How they try to obfuscate and duck the questions. Change the subject! Turn their misdeeds on to the chumps. Pretend like it’s all no big deal and everyone is overreacting. Go total sad sausage. This is all, so, so hard on them.
Did you see the story yesterday that someone on Martha’s Vineyard won’t sell pierogis to Alan Dershowitz (Epstein’s friend and former lawyer)? And he’s going to sue the farmers’ market? Because PEOPLE ARE MEAN TO HIM!
Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre accused Dershowitz in a deposition of being trafficked to him. He claimed that he had “massages” but always kept his underwear on.
Anyone else riveted by this whole cluster?
I try to steer clear of politics on this blog, but it may be unavoidable in discussing this topic today. I believe the victims. And I don’t care who sees justice, if we ever see justice. Democrats or Republicans. Let’s blow open the doors on that basement and let the light in.
TGIF.
It is particularly jarring to see national leaders surrounded by enablers deflect, deny and blame others for their repulsive behaviors.
The media often uses overly polite language to describe illegal acts involving underage girls, which can make these serious offenses seem less criminal and more like mere randy mischief.
Shame on them.Shame on those who look away in the interest of power and money.
Regardless of political affiliation, I believe that all these men (and women) in positions of power and in the public eye must be held accountable for their actions, and women’s experiences should be believed.
It feels a bit hopeless right now, and I hope the pendulum swings back to honesty and justice.
I think that the justice system is also broken beyond repair and once the general public wakes up to how inefficient it truly is then it will be broken down and rebuilt… Judges are modern day kings that with the wave of a pen can alter someone’s life forever with little to no accountability. There is a reason lawyers have the reputations they have and why so many become politicians and judges. Sure there are a few good ones fighting the good fight but most get beaten down and leave the profession to save themselves.
The sense of entitlement and immunity to any level of accountability that comes with great wealth and political.power all too often leads to this disgusting, sordid criminal behaviour….because they know can most often get away with it for decades. I don’t subscribe to any particular religion but I know evil when I see it, and these people are exemplars of pure evil in how they destroy the lives of children. Strip away the power and meaningfully tax the wealth and let the consequences of their behaviour fall.onnthem.in the Courts.
I’m a religious person, and the entitlement and evil here is just so horrifying.
My attorney was also a religious person, and he would swear and pound the conference table regarding certain aspects of my case. That was healing in many ways, and of course, I told him everything I knew and what I suspected. He labelled my case “a battle of good versus evil.”
Because amid the rest, an underage girl was also part of my ex’s horrid, disordered behaviors. I don’t know what all my ex revealed, but even my ex’s attorney was horrified and called his own client “morally reprehensible” and another time “disgusting.”
That was my closure even though legally, he got away with it.
Its so terrible.
I’m in the UK and we currently have the star of a very high profile cookery (cockery?) programme claiming that he didn’t in fact “expose himself” to women and girls but instead tragically wrestles with neurodivergence, which apparently means he can’t wear underwear (sometimes). Oh yes. Interestingly, this troubling problem doesn’t seem to have happened to him around men and boys. He doesn’t seem to have repeatedly “inadvertently exposed himself” / discovered his intolerance for his underwear around men. No. Just around girls and women, if the alleged reporting is true….I haven’t read all of it. It sickens me.
People must have been enabling him for YEARS. The show was a huge success.
I believe the victims too.
Finding certain tightness or texture of clothes extremely unpleasant can be a sign of neurodivergence including ASD.
Forgetting to do parts of an extremely routine task can be a sign of ADHD.
Having said that, I work with lots of young kids with severe ASD and ADHD.
Because of that, I don’t believe the “I only forgot to pull my trousers over my genitalia in front of women and only in front of women who couldn’t penalize my employment because I’m neurodivergent” at all.
My ADHD who forget to pull up their trousers do it regardless of who is present – and the behavior tends to decrease over time.
My severe ASD kids who are working on toileting as scaffolded steps are unlikely to pass as neurotypical on a cooking show.
He’s trying to deflect and make himself the victim. He ain’t.
There is a double standard here as far as sexual orientation as well. Without making a judgment on whether or not the accusations are true or provable, it is clear that people like Kevin Spacey, Paula Poundstone, and Jeff Smith (The Frugal Gourmet) faced consequences that heterosexual celebrities would not have done.
That’s an important point to make.
I think anyone who fakes a disability as an alibi for sexual misconduct or violence is basically putting a fatwa on actually disabled people.
People die because of this. I was hired by a group of disability rights lawyers to write a series on the use of deadly restraint and seclusion used against disabled children in schools and institutions. The summer I researched this, it’s like the sun stopped shining. The horror and injustice were staggering and so much worse than anyone knows.
When we dug into the arguments used by the American Association of School Administrators to maintain the practice of restraint and seclusion in spite of the thousands of injuries and deaths over the years (and despite reports by the GAO that the vast majority of children who were injured or killed by restraint/seclusion had been no threat to themselves or others at the time but were merely being “disruptive” or “annoying”), the official rationales were clearly based on the types of dehumanizing stereotypes which are fed by every douchebag who claims “ASD” or some other “neurodivergent” condition made ’em do it.
No hell deep enough for people like that.
I may have read your series. It was horrifying.
I’ve been trained by Crisis Intervention and Prevention and by Ukeru for two years.
We were trained repeatedly that restraint and seclusion can kill students and can harm staff – even when done correctly.
We’ve had excellent results with Ukeru where you get other students to a second safe location and use space and padded shields if needed to keep safe until the student calms down.
I’ve heard good things about Ukeru and commendations to you for getting the training.
I think the series was mostly circulated internally, largely because it was like pulling teeth to raise awareness. Even parents of disabled children would glaze over and change the subject while most people working in education would become defensive or even vindictive. Thankfully the issue eventually blew up and finally got wider airtime but the human tendency to deny this kind of atrocity always metastasizes over and over again. The reaction is shocking and always makes me think of that scene in Life is Beautiful when the protagonist realizes his riddle buddy is a dissociated nut who won’t help him.
This was a few years before training in the Ukeru system was launched more broadly. Back then schools knew zero about it and weren’t interested in alternatives, probably because the very act of seeking alternatives would be an admission that the system that was in place was a disaster. Is there still a lot of institutional resistance to adopting Ukeru?
In my area, schools seem to use a combination of Safe Cares / TCI / CPI (for a worst case scenario where a restraint is needed) and Ukeru.
I work in Early El so far and people really like Ukeru. Elementary students usually aren’t large enough to do much serious damage – and adults are bigger, faster and smarter – so you can usually get away from the kid with or without a pad – but the pads are great for self-injurious behavior.
We need one of the restraint options because those are the courses that teach emergency transports. We never need those for aggression – but scared kids with complex disabilities often need transport for fire drills no matter how much we pre-teach. Thankfully, most of the kids will accept being carried on my hip or a piggyback ride – but there’s always some poor kid who is big, scared, and needs to be moved safely. We praise the kid copiously for helping us and often they will start walking. Singing a favorite song helps too
I think this is somewhat similar to the claim that all or most people who had been sexually abused as children are going to become abusers or creeps themselves. I believe this is not even remotely true, but it has probably kept a lot of victims quiet for their entire lives.
Part of the issue is that people don’t understand logic or how statistics work!
The stat they are messing up is that a majority of convicted criminals (including but not limited to abusers) have a history of being abused as a child. Of that pool of convicted criminals, most are non-violent offenders on drug charges.
That stat tells you something about convicted criminals – but nothing about the outcome of abused children at all
That’s because the number of people experiencing abuse is far larger than the subset who experienced abuse and commit a crime that they are convicted for. The subset of formerly abused who are convicted of a crime that is non-violent is substantially larger than those convicted of violent crimes.
The vast majority of people who experienced abuse won’t abuse others – and won’t be found guilty of a crime either.
I think the people who subscribe to genetic psychopathy/criminality theories can be even more judgmental than the knee-jerk “nurture” theorists.
In the end even some of my friends who survived terrible childhoods admit to being a bit cautious towards others with traumatic backgrounds because of the risk that some– even if a minority– repeat patterns. The only solution one friend found is to take a lot of time getting to know people, forming friendships in stages and disclosing certain things only when their guts tell them the other person has the bandwidth.
She’s very cool because you’d really never know you were being vetted until one day a subject came up and she’d cheerfully chime in with what happened to her as a kid because it was relevant. And then you’d know you’d passed some test or “graduated” to the next stage of friendship.
When I asked her about it, she said mostly it’s not fear of being victim-blamed, cast as a potential psycho or having the information weaponized against her that makes her careful who she discloses to but just that the reactions of people who are uninitiated or in denial get kind of tedious because she ends up having to “care take” their emotions about it.
Hell of a Chump, I’ve seen you mention previously working with sexual assault/ domestic violence survivors. I’m not sure if those two careers are related. I’m looking at a career shift and am interested in possibly trying to go back to school or get licensed to work in the field. Do you have any recommendations as to where to start?
Hi MovingOn,
I might not be the best person to ask regarding making a living in it but I think it’s a wonderful idea and I imagine you could do a ton of good.
Personally, I trained and volunteered after college and was eventually paid a pittance by a privately funded and cash-strapped advocacy organization. The only genuinely paid position was a consulting psychologist and not even the organization’s founder drew a salary.
I wouldn’t exactly call it a career since most of us had to hold down “real” jobs to do this. All the same it was very rewarding in terms of the learning experience and the fact that it opened the door to eventually work as an editor for publications related to other forms of advocacy because, as it turns out, no matter what the advocacy arena, victims are blamed, bystanders go Swiss, messengers are shot and bullies operate from exactly the same playbook.
I’ve been playing with the idea of getting a degree in forensic psychology or forensic social work once my kids are launched, not to work in therapy but to write on the subject and/or do research for organizations or other writers. Technically I could probably do it without the specialized degree but I’ve learned that anyone on the underdog side of fraught issues like domestic abuse and sexual violence is in for a lot of flak so having the certs is handy as armor (speaking of messengers getting shot).
The self-diagnosis of a trending mental illness or disability like ADHD/ Bipolar/ Autism/ DID/ PTSD and hiding behind a “rough upbringing” or “struggles with sobriety” and the mindful*ck of DARVO projecting personality disorders or less than palatable bipolar or schizotypal to shut victims up really REALLY grinds my gears.
My brother “Amnon” is a FW of the highest order. As a minor, he bragged about stealing tips from tip jars, our mother’s purse, and his friend’s bedroom. He bragged about conning a doctor and my mother into getting him anabolic steroids at 17 because he was “low on testosterone.” he was just another gym bro who wanted to make gains quicker and look like Wolverine. He bragged about conning another doctor into writing him a script for ADHD meds, he abused it for video game marathons to the point of becoming a tweaker, and sold it to his friends. His addictions aren’t really a problem, so #don’tjudge. After he got discharged from the military, he claimed PTSD because he “Anakined a bunch of children of the corn in Nam”… Dude never left the base and that would have made international news, but don’t fact check him mmmkay…
Last I heard, he is claiming he is a late-diagnosed, extremely high-functioning Autistic, and it’s not really his fault for all the abuse targeting countless vulnerable women and children over the years.
I have a FW FIL who’s a textbook abusive misogynistic *sshole. His OWife likes to say he’s bipolar with a horrible first wife and a crappy upbringing, so he can’t help it in his old age. I’ve outright called it out as conveniently timed power trips, but it’s never to the supervisor at work or during Sunday service. The man has never gone to the doctor to discuss the possibility of bipolar disorder. He refuses to go to counseling and won’t accept his part of the blame in any given situation, so regardless of his background or any undiagnosed condition, it’s still his responsibility to manage. Husband finally cut FIL off after years of minimal low contact because his most recent mantrum scared the kids.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that each selfish entitled lie FWs make are careful decisions built upon for years and years of actions that usually put themselves into some position of power to carefully control their royal subjects. FWs don’t want chumps to believe their lying eyes, they want you to ignore the fact that their castle is built on a chicken coop foundation over shifting sands and to always remember the emperor is totally wearing clothes….
Yup. My STBX blamed all his weirdness and inappropriate behavior on being “probably autistic.” After several bouts of malevolent and mad behavior I insisted on a assessment for personality disorder by a trained psychiatrist. (THIS SHOULD BE THE VERY FIRST STEP AFTER Dday, IMHO.) STBX thought he was going to get a behavioral get-out-of-jail-free card, but instead received a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder with sociopathic/ psychopathic features.
STBX was deeply troubled by this diagnosis, did some deep soul-searching and began altering his behavior.
Ooops! Sorry, I had a hopium flashback. Don’t worry, it’s gone. Correction: Then STBX and his CSAT therapist had heated discussions between themselves that the psychiatrist, a brilliant man who was also a lawyer, had a vendetta against the CSAT because of the CSAT’s lesser qualifications and would not respect CSAT’s belief that STBX was not a fucking maniac degenerate (layperson’s term for his condition.) And both blamed me for believing the diagnosis was accurate.
I’m not triggered so much by what Epstein did because powerful men have been abusing women and children for all of human history. (Talking to you too, female pervert teachers.) But I am massively triggered by the lack of consequence to the guilty and the lack of justice for victims, as that is a systemic problem and not just a rogue perpetrator. Child sexual abuse is EVERYWHERE. All levels of society, all political parties, and will continue as long as it is tolerated, excused and covered up. The cover-up is systemic and global. Thousands of little British girls were groomed, raped/abused and trafficked and the British police and “leaders” did nothing. Well, sometimes they persecuted the girls themselves, or arrested any family members who tried to retaliate.
In America the message seems to be that if you are rich, politically powerful and connected, you can abuse children without consequence. While we are on the topic of child abuse, I wish we would all use the old term: child sexual abuse. The term “underage girl” seems to me to put the onus on the victim. Ah, she was under-age. Not that a pedophile sexually abused a child (or in the case of a teenager, a minor) the proper term for which is sexual assualt or rape.
The political football aspect of the Epstein case is a distraction. Red, blue, chartreuse: who cares, but when you sexually abuse a child, you cross a line that demands justice and consequence, and any decent society will see to it that justice and consequence find you. Because a society that does not protect its most vulnerable doesn’t last very long…and shouldn’t.
Amen.
💯
I’m disgusted with my party for having 4 years to expose all of this, yet now pointing fingers at Trump for not releasing it. We need to get some leadership, organization, an agenda, and some fresh ideas other than “Trump is bad.”
Thank you for saying it. I’m so completely over people whose entire political argument is “orange man bad.” My FW was like that actually. I remember being disturbed by Joe Biden running for president back when I was still married and said I don’t think I can vote for him. He’s literally been a racist his entire career and loud about it and I think he’s a pedo the way he sniffs all over children. My ex freaked out at me and started screaming “SO YOU’RE IN LOVE WITH TRUMP?! YOU LOVE TRUMP NOW?!” That’s how really stupid people think. You can dislike two people, we aren’t limited to only disliking one person at a time and having to be madly in love with everybody else.
I literally stopped being a democrat after being one my entire life because of the insane anger and hatred I’ve had spewed at me for questioning anything. I’ve questioned politics my entire damn life. When people started telling me I wasn’t allowed to do that because it makes me some sort of bigot or Nazi, that was a problem for me. I really think that’s why they lost, they chased so many people out of the party.
If that list ever comes out, people are going to be shocked. It’s going to be some of the nicest people. That’s what pedos usually are. They’re the nicest people because they have to hide. It’s going to be outspoken “feminists” and people who say lovely things about human rights. People like my FW, that’s what he was. A very liberal feminist who used to admonish me for “microaggressions.” There will be people from all over the political spectrum but most of them will be the ones who were nice and respectful. The celebrities on it are probably going to be the nice ones that people actually like. Pedos can’t afford to stir up controversy. I really hope it comes out but after both parties refusing to release it, I don’t have much hope left. But if it does, I’m going to laugh hysterically at all the shocked people. It’s not going to be what most of them expect.
I hope we can agree that Trump is bad whether or not you believe that Biden is a racist and/or “sniffs all over children.” They can both be true. What cannot be untrue is that someone who incessently utters falsehoods, cheats on all of his wives, pervs on his own daughter, enacts national policies to enrich himself to the detriment of others and deports immigrants without regard to their legal status is BAD. Be a Democrat or a Republican, there was a time when the differences between them were only about policy. But Trump is bad.
The list may shock a lot of people — if and when it comes out. I remember how unpleasantly surprised I was when Joss Whedon’s ex-wife wrote her piece about him. I loved some of his work (Firefly) and liked most of the rest of it. But when she told her truth, I believed her. I’m sure there are lots of people on the list that will surprise me. Democrats and Republicans, European aristocracy and Arab princes; but they will all have money and privilege. And the vast majority of them will be men. That’s what I expect to be on the list.
Just like most countries reserve greater punishments for traitors than they do enemy combatants, I especially despise the creeps on my own political side of the aisle and want to see them taken down when exposed.
Some of them never fooled me to begin and were always clearly frauds. For instance, a lot of people think of Steven Pinker as some groovy humanist. Meanwhile I think he’s a shill for the biotech industry and a sneaky apologist for neoliberalism and totalitarian policies. I wasn’t one bit shocked or “disappointed” when his ties to Epstein were exposed.
Prince Andrew was one of the folks caught early on in the scandal. He was serviced by a 17 year old girl. That is not pedophilia, but certainly should be illegal everywhere. Yeah, it should be released. I hope it is and soon. Neither party gets a pass on the lack of info on this mess.
I was surprised that Prince Andrew tried to deny it when there was a photo of him with Virginia Guiffre and Ghislaine Maxwell. But my impression of him is that he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
I had a weirdly similar thing with my FW, although we’re both women. She was a super committed establishment democrat (I am quite a bit further left), and was unreasonably stubborn and pissy at me during the 2019 primaries. You would have thought I was the one running with how angry the primary process made her with me!
I have experienced similar KatiePig. It sucks and I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I believe the connection between Epstein, Weinstein, and Diddy is more of a complete circle than a simple Venn diagram, and they seem to be just the scapegoats.
Those in positions of power often lament about seeking justice for crime victims and only care about community building when they are up for reelection. They don’t actually take any meaningful steps to fix the system that benefits them. It’s unfortunate that so many people are divided on these issues.
It’s not a fresh idea, but Trump is bad. AND yes, the Biden administration didn’t want to kick the skunk. I think everyone thought it would die when Epstein died and Ghislaine Maxwell went to prison and we’d all forget whatever it was the FBI found in those raids. And why are they talking to Maxwell anyway? One of the charges she was jailed for is perjury. The victims know who they were trafficked to. But the evidence to back them up is sealed. I think all citizens are entitled to a transparent government.
Agreed. Especially about Maxwell and her…I’ll put it politely…lack of credibility. I’d guess she’s going to try to play this for a pardon. As to whether or not the Convicted Felon is dumb enough…or scared enough…to pardon her, I guess we’ll see. My guess is that he might on the last day of his term. (Assuming he actually does leave the White House.)
I did notice in the news today that she was moved to a minimum security prison camp today. Sure looks like a reward, doesn’t it? I won’t include a link because I don’t want my comment caught in the sp*m filter.
“And why are they talking to Maxwell anyway?” The Onion covered this angle a few days ago:
https://theonion.com/ghislaine-maxwell-cant-help-but-notice-interview-room-covered-in-plastic-sheeting/
I spend a lot of my career reframing things. Trying to find positive spins. I just can’t find any in either a) the current handling of this or 2) the fact that it was permitted to happen to begin with.
So I was just out of the country for two weeks on vacation. Pretty sure it’s right on the passport-“if it’s illegal there you can still be prosecuted for it back home.”
I am not at all surprised that people are scrambling (this despite after promises that information would be released that it seems to be very trickle-y. What a coinkidink that there’s information control on this!) to cover up misdeeds, “get ahead” of the issue, etc(“I kept my underwear on”.)
Apart from “why can’t we all agree that trafficking underage people is wrong?”, the major thing I find to be so trigger-y is that I quite simply have a different moral compass and logic for doing things than the people in power. Ergo, if I did something THAT questionable and flat-out wrong (I think we can agree that if there is something called “age of consent” in multiple cultures that it’s probably in the same approximate weight class as “don’t kill anybody”) I doubt I would do something called “run for public office where I would be subject to the court of public opinion.”
What’s most triggering? Bread and circuses. If we let the issue die, the people involved will skate by and there will be no justice for those harmed(to say nothing of how people that demonstrate “getting away with” will embolden a repeat.)
Have a Fuckwit Free Friday!
Narcissism is highly overrepresented in politics of all stripes as well as in business leadership.
“Rules for thee; none for me” is the downside of the same personality type that enjoys being on public stage and being able to make big decisions.
I stick to “Verify a lot before trusting” because the stakes are high.
” I doubt I would do something called “run for public office where I would be subject to the court of public opinion.”
This is something that I have thought about a lot too. Fair or not, if you are running for office your record should be sparkling clean.
“Should be sparkling clean.” Yes, should be. But just like all of our collective FWs they think they are smart enough to get away with it.
The only thing that I can conclude in all of this is that many more monsters walk amongst us that most people would think …… and please do not get me started on my thoughts on those who enable/cover up for these monsters.
LFTT
I don’t know about the UK – but the US aided and abetted rapists by leaving scores of rape kits untested.
When folks got money by twisting government arms or writing grants, testing the backlog found that a whole lot of kits matched each other in terms of the attackers’ DNA.
Turns out serial predators are, in fact, serial predators.
I taught teenagers who had been through hell – abuse or neglect leading to foster care, witnesses of violence, severe poverty, in a gang or a teenage mom before age 16. Most of them still had a sense of right and wrong – they were genuinely interesting people.
I only had two that scared me because they viewed other humans as objects for their amusement. One was in prison by age 25; dunno where the other one is.
I have a dear friend who is a retired pastor who also had his counselling credentials on the side and offered that to the community. He worked at the state mental hospital for over a decade, and during his graduate program leading to licensure. Then he decided to approach things differently and went to a seminary.
Anyway, he often observed with me, “There are potential wolves in the pews, so look out.”
Yup.
I just wish Alan Dershowitz displayed that same fiery hunger for justice while he was getting underwear massages from teenage girls as he does over someone not selling him savory pastries on the grounds that he’s a dirty old man. If there’s one thing I’ve seen over and over and over and over and over and (I could go on) in the cheaters I’ve encountered in my life, it’s that exact same moral blindness about their own actions coupled with endless and outsized outrage when their slightest desire is thwarted on any level. Just go get a corn dog, Alan. Sheesh.
Agreed, he is the absolute scum of the earth.
I think whoever sells corndogs would be equally repulsed by that horndog.
I have a “funny’ story about Epstein island. Back when I was still married and didn’t know my husband was a monster, I brought up why aren’t people admitting they were there before the info comes out and saying what they did if they aren’t all pedos? My husband was confused “what do you mean?” Ok well, if you’re some total weirdo who likes to have scantily clad women fart all over a cake and then you eat the cake while having sex with them, wouldn’t you rather admit that than look like a pedo? Sex work is a lot more accepted than it used to be so if it was just “normal” paid sex with consenting adults, wouldn’t you rather take the embarrassment of revealing your gross fetish that you pay for than risk being smeared as a pedo? I don’t get it. I’d be screaming I was there for wine enemas and butt play! I did not see any kids! If there were kids or slaves there, that is wrong! I didn’t know about that!
But nobody did. Not one single person. Not one single word. So you know they were all in on it and there was definitely horrible, illegal, evil things happening. Everybody who went there was in on it. Nobody said sh*t. That was so damning to me.
My ex got really quiet. And he said, you know, you’re right. It would be better to admit embarrassing things rather than crimes, and people might actually believe you because you were willing to humiliate yourself in order to say the other stuff was wrong. Why isn’t anybody doing that?
It was less than a month later that he dumped me and then became open about his adult baby relationship and his attraction to different genders and trans people. That hasn’t been lost on me. I guess he really did think it was a good idea. For me, I was just thinking how no normal person would want to be seen as a pedo and would reveal embarrassing things to try to prove they weren’t. But he saw it as a blueprint for how to hide better. Misdirection.
Oh, and disclaimer, I am not actually into wine enemas and butt play. That was just an example. LOL
I’ve felt triggered ever since Trump came down that escalator in 2015. I recognized the guy was a problem even then and got relentlessly gaslit over it by a lot of people who’ve since quietly disappeared, which is par for the course with cults.
However, I suspect we’ll find a long list of names in the Epstein files from both sides of the aisle, and not just the overt douchebags. Predators often know how to appear very respectable and likable, and there’s more evil people in the world than we think. It’s honestly made me very wary of strangers.
No doubt. As George Carlin said, “it’s a big club and you ain’t in it.”
Most definitely. I feel the same “wall of pain” when confronted with the extreme misogyny in our society as I did when I got chumped. This has the same fundamental unfairness and extreme power imbalance expanded to an extreme degree.
I worked for many years in a notoriously creepy industry so my response to the Epstein case wasn’t surprise but relief that the things many of us long knew to be true were coming to light.
Actually nothing about the case is a surprise, including the tendency of humanity to drift back into denial and let it happen again and again because, from what I’ve learned, humans evolved from the rapiest species of mammal that ever existed outside of bottlenose dolphins. To quote Chris Hedges, “If Darwin and the bible agree on one thing, it’s that ‘primal nature’ and ‘original sin’ are exactly the same thing.”
Obviously since humans developed free will, there’s no evolutionary excuse for the behavior just like there’s no excuse for the cannibalism and infanticide that our ape ancestors regularly engaged in. All the same, rape and sexual aggression have always plagued us and always will and there was never a time in history when it didn’t, just periods in which it was worse because no one did anything about it. It’s simply up to every generation to push the rock back up the hill despite the knowledge that, without constant and concerted effort and even in spite of all that effort, it will always roll back down.
I think it’s because, like democracy, sexual justice will always have opponents and, since guilt is ugly, even if the shitheads are in the minority, they’ll always be the loudest and most psychotically motivated and every generation produces a new batch. It’s like shoveling the walk before it stops snowing to combat it. But what’s the alternative? Standing on the side lines razzing the effort, passively whining about the state of things, ignoring the reality or going uphill and pushing down?
When I was young and green and prone to Utopian delusions about human progress and a “teleological” view of evolution (the silly myth that our species gets progressively more ethical and enlightened over time), I would always find the backslides crushing and discouraging as if all progress was supposed to become fixed. But now I cling to the Camus quote, “The struggle towards the heights is enough to fill a [wo]man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”
It makes me happy to push in some way or other, even if it’s in some small capacity. In a day to day sense, it just boils down to the fact that the company is better on the pushing side.
“I see my work this way: I’m trying to un-fuck chump brains. Beyond asking “Is this relationship acceptable to you?” I want to know “How do abusers abuse?” Why do we accept their entitlement as normal? How can we look at these power dynamics differently so we can free ourselves?”
This site, despite my continued trips to my therapist for my other issues (e.g. Why am I such a Chump?), has saved me a fortune in extra therapy. I consider Chump Nation to be a community of quasi-outcry witnesses, in that we all here can pour out our trauma stories over and over again and find out that no, we are not the crazy ones. A brand new Chump will post a story, spill their trauma, and everybody here is like “Yes, Chump. Same.” The actual sex acts of a FW are the least of Chump problems. Un-fuck Chump brains indeed.
I’m triggered by the Epstein Island horror in that it’s like a dream come true for aspiring sex traffickers. Especially since the game goes on in another basement in every city. The snake tongued Esther perel loves to mention (in her cloying accent) ‘prostitution is the oldest profession’ and makes light of husbands frequenting massage parlors (as if it’s like leaving the toilet seat up) and she never talks about the VICTIMS of the sex industries that she claims are the solution to a boring, faithful relationship. Esther perel thinks every couple should have a dozen or so sex trafficked humans at their disposal. Her fans appreciate her validation of their inhumane appetites.
Another dream come true for aspiring sex traffickers is the ability to, in an unmarked car and without identification, roll up on people, jump out of the car with only their eyes showing, and whisk people away to God knows where. If I were the parent of a dark skinned girl or young woman I would not let them out of the house. Boys and young men also I guess.
I’m also in therapy still but I agree this site is a Godsend and better than a thousand RIC or clueless therapists.
agree!
It’s so disgusting. And the fact that these men think they have a right to just walk around and live their lives is unbelievably entitled, depraved…. disgusting. I absolutely believe they started accusing democrats of pedophilia because they were already doing it. I also think the same thing about “rigging the election”- accuse the democrats of rigging while simultaneously actually rigging the election. They always accuse you of what they are already doing, right? I’m so angry at these men. I’m so angry these victims had to endure this, and continue to have to deal with all this denial. While I absolutely believe the victims, I don’t think that we should have to rely on them to lead the charge against these men– if they want to, fine. I just think they’ve been through enough.
I read somewhere that every accusation by a narcissist is actually a confession.
Look at the Narcissist in chief and his ilk, serial cheaters and abusers and sidepeice mate poachers.
The weird pizza parlor pedophile ring etc all makes sense suddenly when you understand Narcissistic accusations are actually confessions.
Exactly. Thank you for saying it. All of it. Plain as day to me, too. And it makes me feel crazy that we have a world full of enabling cowards.
Sometimes past abuse victims become future cheaters.
Not always, but sometimes.
The constant abuse becomes “normal” in their minds.
Then later on they seek out what feels familiar to them as psychologically they find it somehow comforting.
Case in point, my ex.
At 9 she was serially abused by her best friends dad, he even brought others in on the abuse.
She equated sex with being friends.
So she’d give sex to anyone she wanted to be friends with.
Yes, on one level she knew that it was wrong.
But the conditioning of the past abuse makes it easier mentally to brush off the inconvenience.
And even if the past abuse victims don’t become future cheaters, any relationship they have in the future will be impacted by their past experiences in some fashion.
This makes the abusers doubly disgusting because they destroy the person first, then because of them they destroy or damage multiple people outside of their initial abuse.
May be stating the obvious but is it possible your FW made it up or greatly exaggerated her past? Quite common with the covert narcissists including my own ex/FW who lied about childhood hardships for sympathy kibbles and as rationalization for his own actions
I believe that she was molested.
And that’s pretty much the extent of what I could say is fact.
Her mom blamed her for it.
So yeah, her family is messed up.
But, she made conscious decisions after that to become abusive herself.
It becomes a “which came first, chicken or egg” conundrum.
Did the experience push an already bad personality further or just give license to.
Who knows.
Her family didn’t help matters much, their excuses were always “you have to understaaaand, she has a learning disability”.
While true, she did, it’s not an excuse for bad behavior.
So she wouldn’t have a chance either way, her family wasn’t going to be a help regardless.
And at this point it’s just theorycrafting and conjecture on could have beens and what ifs.
I don’t know that I’m triggered exactly, but, this sure smells like a major coverup to me. The Convicted Felon is obviously obsessed with it. He keeps talking about it which is the worst possible way to handle it. It’s like he’s letting out trickle truths.
Let me put it this way. If there’s any “there” there, I think we need to know about it. So I vote for the release of the files with victims’ names redacted. And at this point, that’s the only way to shut people up about it.
If prominent, powerful people are embarrassed, or end up being charged with crimes, so be it. If they can’t keep their pants zipped, or their skirts down, around people below the age of consent, they deserve the consequences of their behavior.
I feel horrible for those victims but I am mostly avoiding their stories now because it’s just become too much for me. It’s too disturbing and I can’t deal with it.
Perhaps it’s selfish of me, but I’ve worked hard for my peace of mind and I don’t want any setbacks. Me reading the stories isn’t going to help these victims, it’s just going to hurt me. I have OCD and get murderous intrusive thoughts if I read stories about sexual predators. I hate them so much and want them to suffer enormously and die in agony, and thinking about that is not good for me. Contemplating how many truly evil people exist in this world is the death of hope and I need to have some hope. The creepy disgusting pervert FW killed it but I got some of it back. I’m holding onto it by my fingernails every time I think about these hateful scum. What is to be done about them? There seems to be no way of stopping them, which makes the world a shitty place to live in for so many people.☹️
Thank you so much for calling attention to it and for being brave enough to read accounts from victims, CL.
As soon as I read the story of Virginia Giuffre story and how she took her own life after all she went through for us and other victims. How her divorce process from her bully husband went public. He was supposed to defend her and instead used her too…well this just crumbled me. My 2 divorce from 2 blatant cheaters who did NOR EVER love me taught me about reptiles and how they don’t feel for you..you are just prey. So it is with the rich and powerful. They control the narrative unless it’s harsh in everyone’s face. Justice is never served no matter what prison takes these creeps and traffickers. I continue to believe in a God of justice that leads me to believe that no one will get away with anything no matter how famous or how rich. Their punishment will be far worse than anyone can imagine. A special seat is reserved as CL says.They will understand then, what they did. Still we need to push forward with Tracy taking the lead. We bring justice as best we can. My heart breaks 💔 for all the victims in the billions. I had only a taste…It was horrendous for all those girls and children of all kinds even as we speak. My prayers need legs.
I can’t say I’m really triggered. I’m also not shocked. I’m just disgusted. Being a predator knows no political boundaries. What I’m really sick of is people who are willing to overlook a politician’s predatory behavior as long that politician continues to uphold their political agendas. The same people who were so outraged by Clinton back in the 90s seem to have suffered collective memory loss now that Trump is in office. And all the people who are saying, “If Trump being an adjudicated rapist isn’t a dealbreaker for you…” Unlike the rapist / sexual predator that you all voted for back in 1992 and 1996. And the woman who built her entire career off of enabling him in 2016. And it’s not a dealbreaker for Kamala either since she married a predator herself.
The current GOP isn’t better. It’s full of the same predators and grifters. When Pete Hegseth’s Signalgate fuck up was exposed, he acted like a whiny little DARVOing bitch; pretty much like I expected he acted when he got caught cheating.
Do I think Epstein killed himself? Hell yes he did. There was no grand conspiracy; he was just a typical FW. He didn’t want to be held accountable or face the consequences. He may have escaped justice in this life, but he won’t in the next.
If we want to stop predators like those on Epstein’s client list, we need to be willing to hold the people we elect to power accountable, even if they are promising us that they’ll usher in an era of hope and change or they’ll make America great. How empowering for women is it really to elect serial abuser of women? How much do we care about making America great if we’re voting for a revolting misogynist? But we all just keep going at each other like two dogs barking in a positive feedback loop of pointless noise.
“How do abusers abuse?”
“Why do we accept their entitlement as normal?”
“How can we look at these power dynamics differently so we can free ourselves?”.
Yes! I can’t look away from the Epstein story, that really feels like the dark heart of our dark times.
How do abusers abuse? Why do we accept their entitlement? The answers to these questions are where healing and growth are found. Chump Lady, you are so right.
Another important question that keeps we chumps transfixed is this: will they ever meet justice for what they did? Will they get away with abusing their power and lying? The Epstein story also tells us the harsh truth: for now, yes. The Epstein story is gross, seedy, tragic, outrageous. It tells us a truth we’d rather not hear.
Another news story, Gisele Pelicot’s, was, unlike Epstein’s, about breaking with the status quo. It was about justice done. It was exhilarating. We drank it in! Gisele Pelicot, with the help of a few principled lawyers and the French media, punctured the bubble of entitlement and acceptance that her rapists assumed would always hide them. The presidents and princes and Harvard associates and billionaires in Epstein’s circle still can muster a few rags of respectability to pull around their nakedness to evade consequences.
I hope they are all exposed, and they all pay, every single one. This has nothing to do with anyone’s political party. Ask the victims whether they cared which party their violators belonged to.
Everyone who reads this blog knows how it feels to find out the person they surrendered their agency to, and entrusted the care of their children to, was a crude, lying hypocrite. To find out that, given the opportunity and means to do whatever they wanted, our “protectors” fulfillment and happiness lay in coerced sexual gratification.
How could we not be transfixed?
“I hope they are all exposed, and they all pay, every single one.”
The only ones who will be exposed are those who refuse to play ball. All of those names are a mother lode of kompromat.
I forget where I saw this (probably instagram) but it was something along the lines of if you’re disgusted by the Epstein scandals and the powerful people on it, think about how many average men have “barely legal” or “barely 18” in their search histories. The only thing separating them from being on the list themselves is the size of their paychecks.