But I Love Her (Him)

alwaysloveOn any given day at Chump Lady, you’ll see the following recitation: awful thing, awful thing, unforgivable thing, run-away-like-your-hair-is-on-fire abomination! …. and then the chump utterance, “But I love him.” (Or “But I love her.”)

Oh. You LOVE her? Then King’s X! Why didn’t you say so! 

I was totally mistaken that someone who threatened your life, insulted your outfit, called you fat, unlovable, sexless, and dim, cheated on you, lied to you, risked your health, spent your savings, ran up your credit cards, got pregnant, got someone else pregnant, quit their job, tripped your elderly mother, and then told you the entire clusterfuck was your fault wasn’t in your good graces.

Oh sure, you feel some consternation, or a fervent need for a reality check — It’s wrong to trip elderly women, right? Right? — but let the record be clear on this — YOU STILL LOVE THEM.

Stop the presses! OMG. This changes EVERYTHING! It doesn’t matter what the litany of horror is, if you LOVE the person, then all should be forgiven! There is hope! Because you LOVE! And love, we are told, is a super power. It conquers all.

How’s that working for you?

If you’re believing that your love will change another person? STOP. Please stop. You can’t love someone into loving you back. You can’t love someone into sobriety. You can’t love someone into monogamy. The love you feel stops and starts with you. It’s not a superpower. Love is a CHOICE.

Isn’t it infuriating the way cheaters cling to the narrative of The Heart Wants What The Heart Wants and “We can’t control who we love!” To hear them tell it, love is just this nebulous gas that descends on people, willy nilly. There’s no agency involved. One day they were out minding their own business and sha-ZAM! Love hits. Powerless against its force, the cheater is compelled to cheat — and it’s okay because LOVE. #somethingbiggerthanusboth

“Bullshit,” you say?

Well, chumps, it works both ways. You can’t go on and on and on about some abusive shit in your life and then say, “but I love him!” As if you have no agency. As if your love isn’t a CHOICE. “I love you” is an “I” statement. Any sentence that begins with “I” means YOU control it. (“I am having liverwurst and saltine crackers for dinner tonight!” “I am not voting for Donald Trump!” “I adore pinecone elves!”)

Start controlling who you choose to love. I know you’re still caught up in the shared history, and who you thought this person was, and the memories — and yes, the actual LOVE you feel. And I know that love and investment makes you feel very vulnerable and heartbroken. But you know what? You’re making a choice to confer love upon this person.

Ask yourself if they deserve it. Ask yourself if you deserve awful thing, awful thing, awful thing, abomination!

Then choose wisely.

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JackiesDone
JackiesDone
7 years ago

That was a slap well needed. That “BUT” causes the Chump to suffer more than the Cheater causes. At least I carry that BUT and it is heavy.

renee62
renee62
7 years ago

We love the person we thought that they were.They are NOT that person. They morph into what they know you want in a person. The “real” them is hidden until they can’t hide it any longer.
Love someone who deserves your love & gives it back to you in spades. Be good to yourself!!! & don’t settle for less!!!

mickeyblueeyes
mickeyblueeyes
7 years ago
Reply to  renee62

“We love the person we thought that they were.They are NOT that person. They morph into what they know you want in a person. The “real” them is hidden until they can’t hide it any longer.”

This is very true…It’s the one thing looking from the outside that is so obvious that they morph to gain approval of their latest victim. I wonder if this gets harder as they get older? Anyone got any experience of this..does it get harder for them to maintain the ‘false self’?

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  mickeyblueeyes

Mickey

As they age I feel it is about facing the false self. The Limited is an alcoholic and smoked weed daily. Can he maintantain a double life? Yes. Will it be as easy as it was before? No. He downgraded so low he has lost his supply. She put him on a pedistal and from what I know she is clingy as hell. His ‘poor me story’ ended when I divorced him. What’s his new narrative now that he is heavily in debt, has limited years to work in a failing business, and has aged significantly.
He will struggle until he finds a new victim. Next.

mickeyblueeyes
mickeyblueeyes
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Maybe because I’m a man I’m looking at this from a different perspective to the majority of the people on here which is probably fair to say are female. (Apologies if that’s not the case)

My stbxw was attractive, charming etc.. New lover boy she’s with (not AP) has fallen for this hook, line and sinker and he’s throwing everything at her, designer clothes, vacations, cars etc…she’s created a new identity which includes a new love of football and regularly goes to the game with him, a new love of cycling and cold plays biggest fan also to impress him…all of which she hated with a passion prior to our breakup.

Her attractiveness and because most men (myself included but I have a moral compass and choose to be faithful) think with the contents of their underwear make it easy for her to convince her latest victim. So I guess as she ages her mask will be harder to maintain, maybe not, maybe I should just not give a shit whether it does or does not?

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  mickeyblueeyes

A quality man won’t be impressed by looks that much and will look for a package deal. Meaning not just looks, but personality should count for as much. Sounds like your ex was really fake and healthy people don’t put up with fakeness for very long.

Jim
Jim
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

I tell the young men I know that good looks are gravy. Find one who is kind, funny, smart, and true.

Jim
Jim
7 years ago
Reply to  mickeyblueeyes

Time spent giving a shit about her could be better spent cleaning the toilet or washing the car

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Jim

or picking lint off your socks…

Other Kat
Other Kat
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Though if it’s any comfort, attractive women do have a short shelf life. She’ll have to try harder as she gets older, and desperation will likely set in. That said, I agree with others that thinking about it is a waste of time (easier said than done I know).

SureChumpedAlot
SureChumpedAlot
7 years ago
Reply to  mickeyblueeyes

Mickey,

Does it get harder as the cheaters to maintain their false self as they get older? For some it gets harder for some it does not.

Some cheaters continue their devious ways until it’s time to take their permanent dirt nap.

Some cheaters just wind up settling for less (a lot less ) with their new love interest/s because they do get tired of the charade.

And some remain in between.

In the end… bad character, selfishness and lack of empathy are a hard habits to kick!

violet
violet
7 years ago

It definitely gets worse as they age. As their looks fade, they begin to seek the reassurance, from whatever source is available, that they are desirable. My X was very good looking and always enjoyed the attention and adulation of his young associates/interns. But when he became “old” that need kicked in to hyper drive and, given his position, there was always someone to stroke his ego. A woman finally came along that figured X was her pot at the gold at the end of the rainbow. Unfortunately for her, she was unaware there was also a troll under the bridge-me.

Did I love my X? Totally, completely and without hesitation, for many, many years. Perhaps in some ways I still do. We were together over 30 years. But love without trust is unsustainable and quite frankly, soul destroying. I just couldn’t keep up the day to day battle of wondering whether he was still seeing her, and he wasn’t man enough to be honest with me about what he was up to. He would swear up and down that he wasn’t with her and then I would discover some piece of information that proved he was lying. An odd phone number, a throw away phone, a card with her home address written on it. Every time I thought we had finally put it all behind us, I was traumatized yet again. And every new trauma was worse than the last. I was becoming an angry, bitter woman and for what? His ego?

So, as much as I loved him, I loved myself more. I knew there had to be more to life than chasing a cheater. I wanted to be the old Violet, the Violet who didn’t give shit about where she lived, what kind of car she drove, or what other people thought of her. I gave myself permission, to grieve, to rage, to mourn, to act the fool. Then, over time, I began to put the past in the past. Would I have loved to grow old with my X? Damn straight and I’m not ashamed of that fact. But the universe had other plans for me and it was up to me to make a change. I believe am obliged to try and live the best life I know how. It isn’t always easy, but I’m still standing and I am proud of the woman i have become. A little ragged around the edges, but definitely stronger and more resilient than I ever thought possible.

teri bibart
teri bibart
7 years ago
Reply to  violet

Thanks for sharing!!!!

Proofofnotrust
Proofofnotrust
7 years ago
Reply to  violet

Thank you for this, violet. I felt like I could have written the words myself. Your post sums up exactly how I was feeling and is exactly what I needed to get through this morning of triggers and doubts.

“But love without trust is unsustainable and quite frankly, soul-destroying.” YES!

Pondscumbgone
Pondscumbgone
7 years ago
Reply to  violet

So inspiring Violet, thank you!
Today was hard for me, I had been trucking along towards meh when my ex halted that forward motion. I had to disconnect our cellular plan today, which was planned. What was not planned was the ex’s demand for payment of the phone up front, or surrender my phone back to him. I informed him of an easier option that would only require a call to the carrier, and he responded he wouldn’t be able to call until tomorrow (it would interrupt his phone time with his skank can’t have that!) .I called his bluff and secured a new phone, text him to inquire as to when and where to drop off “his” phone. Meltdown on his part, resulting in a panic attack on my part. Threats concerning legal action, claims that he had been nice so far.
The point of this story? I loved this man for a very long time. Our 23 years together conditioned me to please him, that I was the one at fault, always. He reduced me to those horrible feelings again, all because I am capable of love.
Thankfully, back to no contact. Back to square one towards meh and I do so happily, all in the name of love. For me.

FindingBliss
FindingBliss
7 years ago
Reply to  violet

Good for you, Violet. You expressed it so well.

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  mickeyblueeyes

Yes its harder for them to maintain the mask and control the demons especially when the whore is pulling the demons out cause she thinks its cool. My kids and i all watched the demons come out and turn on us all. He showed the whore who he really was and she is delighted. Pods all of them not humans pods.

BEB
BEB
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

The thing that the whore doesn’t understand is that all the deceit and nastiness he throws his family – well, one day she may very likely be on the receiving end of it. She may think he’ll never be like that to her – they are soooo in looooove. But since her unicorn prince is incapable of love – when his infatuation starts to fade – well, she just might find herself getting the very treatment she watched him dish out that she was so impressed with. Then she won’t be so delighted anymore.

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  BEB

Oh she got the treatment in spades but she thrives on it me i hate fighting she loves it what she doesnt love is the distance he throws at her. She thinks she can mold hum into her perfect man. Stupid bitch. They are broken up right now again and they throw money at each other you know their own true love. He will never change he gets worse everyday and the tornado is yet to arrive but its coming and the house will burn down.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  BEB

BEB

She is so insecure as he will never marry her. There are massive red flags they accept starting with they fucked a married man in my case. He has never changed his address and been lining there for two years. He’s still cheating. She is mentally ill and like the others believes she is soecial. She’s just a fuck in a long line of whores.

kb
kb
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

But you know what? I bet she doesn’t see those demons as demons because he used them against you. That makes it all okay. And of course, she’s special, it’s twu wuv, and he’d never do that to her.

Hah!

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  kb

Kb hes already doing it to her. Yeah! She pulled out more demons then she bargained for the dumb ass. True wuv i think not! Hope they both get exactly what they deserve.

Beth
Beth
7 years ago
Reply to  renee62

Yes Renee, preach it girl! Once you really understand that they are NOT the person you thought they were, it becomes so much easier. Not that it is pain free, by any means, but it is easier to see that the only real choice is to pick up the pieces and move on.

kbchump
kbchump
7 years ago
Reply to  Beth

Oh God isn’t that the truth!!

divorcinganarcissistblog
divorcinganarcissistblog
7 years ago
Reply to  renee62

So true! I realized early on that I was mourning the “what could have been” you know if the Narcissist I was married to was a sane, rational, loving, compassionate, and kind human being capable of loving someone else with even a fraction of the love he has for himself. haha

patty
patty
7 years ago

me too. always a good reminder. especially when without them you wouldn’t have your amazing kids

NotTodaySatan
NotTodaySatan
7 years ago
Reply to  renee62

Exactly. I thought I still loved my ex at the time I filed for divorce. I thought we could consciously uncouple and all that. Only distance, therapy and CL helped me see that I had been in love with potential and not the reality, and that he really was a pathetic scumbag.

Lisa
Lisa
7 years ago
Reply to  NotTodaySatan

My daughter is telling me all the time I’m in love with the person I either thought he was or knew he was capable of being if he was willing to put on the work.

nomar
nomar
7 years ago

Because you can’t spell #biggerthanusboth without “anus.” #hiddenasshole

ChumpionoftheWorld
ChumpionoftheWorld
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Aces

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago

Let me guess….Nomar is a male! Am I right?

ForgeOn!
ForgeOn!
7 years ago
Reply to  SabineSavoy

Yeppers! One awesome dude!

Shechump
Shechump
7 years ago
Reply to  ForgeOn!

Some RIC sites have banned me for even mentioning this website, so I have learned to imbed it sneakily into some posts. And, some said they found out by my posting this website there. Why would they not want to have all the links possible for people to read? Boggles the mind. ChumpLady lets everybody post their own personal sites and freely welcomes others. This is the way it should be.

Shechump
Shechump
7 years ago
Reply to  ForgeOn!

No way! Nomar is a Robot. Trust me! 😉

He says too many funny and true things to be actually human.

UXworld
UXworld
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Outstanding!!

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Awesome Nomar!

Chump Princess
Chump Princess
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

How do you do it over and over again Nomar? LOLOLOLOL! I would love to know where you purchased your bullshit cutter! I would like to buy one. 🙂

EyesOpenNow
EyesOpenNow
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Lmao!! Best reply ever!!

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago
Reply to  EyesOpenNow

I honestly don’t get it….why is that so funny or clever? I don’t see it. Because he referenced that they are assholes? I want to laugh, too.

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago
Reply to  SabineSavoy

#biggerthANUSboth … See?

Georgia
Georgia
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

yep I saw that straight away too… must be my dirty mind.

RefusesToBeStupid
RefusesToBeStupid
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Way to go Nomar?

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

excellent!

Roaring
Roaring
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Hahahaha.

divorcinganarcissistblog
divorcinganarcissistblog
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

so good!

Kate
Kate
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Nora! ???

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Nomar for the win!

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Bwah hah!

piggy9117
piggy9117
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

OMG!!! Too funny. You know, nomar, I am just a little bit worried about where your mind is at!!! But I love it!

Chatty
Chatty
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

*wild applause*

Schmetterling
Schmetterling
7 years ago
Reply to  Chatty

I pin that on my mirror – brilliant Noma

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

How does nomar do it so early in the morning?

Kay
Kay
7 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Ha Nomar!!

brit
brit
7 years ago

Take the love your had for that person and love yourself. You are real they aren’t and you deserve to be loved. This person doesn’t deserve you or your love.
It takes work to change your thinking from putting this person on a pedestal and believing all the crap they fed us to realizing the person is an asshole and was never close to who we thought they were.

ChocLemonGelato
ChocLemonGelato
7 years ago

Yeah, the cheater narrative; “The Heart Wants What The Heart Wants” (THWWTHW), sounds a lot like what I was told by cheater cheater pumpkin eater on D-day two years ago; “It Is What It Is” (IIWII). Such a complacent way to end a discussion… lazy, and speaks volumes of his character.

Man, I have always hated that phrase… and now I can finally put my finger on why.

ChocLemonGelato
ChocLemonGelato
7 years ago

I think in the right context for a person, It Is What It Is does it’s job. It does signify an end point of sorts. As I explained above, IIWII was used in a manner which shut me down. My context was that Cheater suddenly announced he was leaving because I could not give him “what he wants”. I just could not believe that he was walking out on me, my 4, 2 and 11mo old children. I was blindsided. All I got was “It is what it is”.

It was triggering at the time. Nowadays, that phrase just serves as a bit of a bookmark. I’m not at all surprised or triggered on hearing that others appreciate its message. Whenever required these days, if after visitation Cheater is seeking kibbles from me (oh, “Master 2 was so grumpy today”… or “Miss 6 wouldn’t stop yelling at the boys”…) I flip it and turn it over, I serve it back occasionally to the ex, with a shrug of the shoulders and an “oh well…”

Needless to say, I probably serve up the discussion-ending comments more and more.

He’s such a fucktard. I hate him.

WhichWayDidSheGo
WhichWayDidSheGo
7 years ago

I got “So it goes.” tattooed on my wrist. Nothing but Vonnegut’s portrayal of the absurd quite captured how I felt about the sudden turn my life took.

Lyn
Lyn
7 years ago

I like that!

RNE
RNE
7 years ago

Mine said this too!! I hate that phrase!!! As if you have no control ever over what “it” is. Drinking problem? No control. Being a douche to the kids? No control. Screwing the hoe bag in my bed? Of course no control. But I guess it works both ways. When he asks why a Divorce? It is what it is.

It Is What It Is
It Is What It Is
7 years ago
Reply to  RNE

I use this phase as my handle to remind me that there was nothing I could do (although I pick me danced for a long time) to change him. “It is what it is” is my way of signifying acceptance of who he really is. My ex was the one who hated the phrase when I used it. It meant I was done dancing and done dispensing kibbles. Sorry if it is triggering.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
7 years ago

I’m actually sitting underneath a hand-painted sign right now that says, “It is what it is.” I realize many consider it to be a trite expression, but it helped me a lot during the darkest days after Dday. I bought it at that time to remind me that there was no point in trying to figure out why my ex did the things he did, and no point in trying to untangle the skein, as CL says. It just is what it is, not worth my efforts to untangle his insanity and evilness.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

I use the phrase so as not to have regrets or grief about the broken marriage, and as a way to accept life as I have to live it today. See couples out on Valentine’s Day? “It is what it is.” Intact families on Mother’s Day. “It is what it is.” Have to deal with an electrician the day I was supposed to get other work done? “It is what it is.”

Georgia
Georgia
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

My mantra is: “It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter.”
Of course it ‘matters’ but in the end it doesn’t. If you know what I mean. Life goes on. He’s one guy out of 7 billion people in this world. He does not matter.

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago

No, it’s okay! Not triggering. It is another good way of seeing it, coming from a person who is just trying to accept a horrible outcome.
It is…what is is.

Almost like an abbreviated Serenity Prayer. I think WHO is saying it is the key and the context.

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago

I hate that saying too because I think it is actually “FUCK YOU, DEAL WITH IT.”

Deedee
Deedee
7 years ago

We love the facade they masquerade behind until it no longer serves them.I remember the shock of seeing the reality that lay behind the exterior,a Jekyll and Hyde transformation.I’ve since figured out he’s a high functioning narcissistic sociopath and he was very good at keeping his squalid secret life underground.Excellent in fact.
It takes time for the heart to catch up with the head though.Time,a lot of pain,and no contact.

divorcinganarcissistblog
divorcinganarcissistblog
7 years ago
Reply to  Deedee

Seriously!! I relate to the heart catching up with the brain bit. If my heart could have chilled out long enough to listen to my brain while I was ignoring all of those glaring red flags I would have been much better off! Now my silly heart wants to ache while my brain is celebrating victory. It would be nice for them to sync up.

Annie Get Your Gun
Annie Get Your Gun
7 years ago

This is why we would tell a friend to immediately leave a similar situation and we stay in our own for so long. We don’t have an emotional attachment to the friend’s betrayer, so we use our brain. I wish there was a clinical trial for a drug that could temporarily shut off the love feeling after dday. I think that if a stranger came up to us and told us half the things our exes said we’d either laugh in their faces or call the cops.

Lyn
Lyn
7 years ago

I agree Annie, I’ve often thought that trying to break the emotional attachment I had to him for 36 years gave me an inkling of what it must be like to go through rehab for a powerful drug addiction. There are still days that I miss him, or miss who I thought he was.

violet
violet
7 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Same here. It is the daily ritual of the shared experience, the fact that you see that person every day for years and, one day, they are gone. It is like losing a limb, something feels missing. I try to fill that loss with activity, working, gardening, spending time with the people i love. I admittedly do not give myself much free time, and I still keep my guard up to an extreme. But I am at peace with myself and no longer angry all the time, something that was long overdue. The withdrawal symptoms were a bitch.

Flowerlady
Flowerlady
7 years ago

Me, too. Three years post D-day and I’m still trying to sync up. It’s coming along, tho.

JK
JK
7 years ago

Well put.

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
7 years ago

I think the whole idea of agency can be confusing for us chumps. We spent so long giving the power to someone else, making our needs so small, that it’s almost a fresh concept for us to learn how to take control of ourselves, much less the situation. Then it becomes a skill that you have to cultivate in steps, deciding not to take it anymore, deciding to see an attorney, going through the necessary steps to meet with the attorney, etc. each is a building block to recovering your agency. Do it. You won’t be sorry.

mickeyblueeyes
mickeyblueeyes
7 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

“We spent so long giving the power to someone else, making our needs so small, that it’s almost a fresh concept for us to learn how to take control of ourselves, much less the situation.”

Ha this is so true! Even on the trivial things in life, these soon ad up though.

My new partner (and fellow chump) asked my opinion on what colour to paint her kitchen? And then took my advice. WAIT, WHAT? I was terribly confused by it all…it would usually go like this…

1) STBXW wouldn’t even ask my opinion, she would then just impose hers and do it her way
2) STBXW would ask my opinion and just ignore it and doing it her own way (Still at least she asked eh!)

When you find someone that reciprocates, listens, values you and your opinion its like a breath of fresh air! Or even if you don’t have a partner the fact you can just paint your kitchen pink with blue spots is extremely liberating!

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
7 years ago
Reply to  mickeyblueeyes

Oh, mickeyblueeyes, it’s like the date I went on and the gentleman asked what I wanted to do. When I was silent he said “you get to pick things for us to do too.” Stunned silence. I honestly did not know what to say. The simple concept of reciprocity literally shut me down. I had to sit and think about it. Thank goodness he is a patient man.

mickeyblueeyes
mickeyblueeyes
7 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

AllOutofKibble just for the record my new chump partner painted her kitchen the colour I suggested too… Imagine that, accepting my opinion and following it through!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

This is so important, AllOutofKibble. And to extend the point, a hallmark of codependency is that the codependent’s focus is not on his or her life, but on trying to control the disordered person’s disorder–get that sick person to “do the right things,” which is what the codependent wants that person to do. So in that sense, betrayal might actually put codependency in hyperdrive, making a chump frantic to change the disordered person’s mind. Cue the pick me dance.

In order to be in a healthy relationship, strangely enough, both parties also have to focus on their own lives, to maintain good interpersonal boundaries, to be plugged into what they are actually feeling, to know themselves well enough to say that some behaviors are deal breakers.

Drew
Drew
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Well said, LAJ. “In order to be in a healthy relationship, both parties have to focus on their own lives, to maintain good interpersonal boundaries, to be plugged into what they are actually feeling, to know themselves well enough to say that some behaviors are deal breakers.” I believe this. But as a recovering Chump I think my many years with the ex were spent supporting his life…until I recognized that mine had value as well. And ex was always looking for recognition. Was angry work didn’t recognize his greatness. I do believe he had a secret life, he couldn’t talk about his “feelings,” and it was frustrating being with someone who was so evasive and disengaged. All red flags I ignored.

CeliA
CeliA
7 years ago
Reply to  Drew

Drew, it’s funny how similar our ex’s are. Mine was looking for recognition all the time too. The cheating escalated after he secured a high position at his work. He was always flirting with female ho-workers and would make an excuses for his “playful personality”. At home, he is terribly disengaged and it was difficult to do “the talk” because of his evasiveness when he talks about his feelings. I’ve read that these are signs of power play. They have to keep you off-balance by letting you guess what they’re thinking.

Regina
Regina
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

LAJ; “And to extend the point, a hallmark of codependency is that the codependent’s focus is not on his or her life, but on trying to control the disordered person’s disorder–get that sick person to “do the right things,” which is what the codependent wants that person to do.
Sad but true.
Cuts to the quick for some because it is often a reinjury familiar to the Chump from childhood…”this is how little you mean to me.”
It is as if supplying this injury makes the Cheater feel powerful. The pick me dance, your devastation, your looking inward for answers instead of leaving-all kibbles for the sick. Who among us would do this and sincerely get off on it?? When we are not thinking clearly, we don’t get this.
And right about deal breakers that we should have thought about in advance.

Annie Get Your Gun
Annie Get Your Gun
7 years ago
Reply to  Regina

If I would have had this information when I first got married, I would have divorced without having my children. One of the things that drove me bat-shit-crazy was his, “I know you’ll be mad” attitude. For example, his staying out way past when he should have been home. He was out drinking with friends. Instead of having one or two, he would start with what I believed were good intentions and then end up staying until last call. He would say all the time, “I knew you’d be mad.” Well if he knew, why did he do it. The answer is just what you wrote above. He was showing me how little I meant to him.

This lasted until the end. I was talking about us buying a pontoon boat we had talked about previously. It was set up specifically for fishing. I love the water and love fishing and it was something we could do together. I came back from a week of visiting my sick father and he says to me, “I know you’ll be mad, but I bought a motorcycle.” I was pissed. Not because of the purchase. We both work and make good money and could have afforded both the bike and the boat, but 1) He thought I’d be mad, but did it anyway, 2) he bought something for only him when I was talking about a major purchase that could be enjoyed by both, 3) he waited until I was out of town and for some reason thought he had to be sneaky.

Thanks for explaining this, all of you, it has helped clarify things in my mind. I can guarantee that I will never let this go again. My response from now on to anyone who shows me how little I mean to them is, “No I’m not mad. I’m done.”

Lyn
Lyn
7 years ago

“No I’m not mad. I’m done.”

That’s excellent. I’ll have to remember that!

Don’t you think when they say “I knew you’d be mad” it’s also a way of saying “you’re too sensitive?” or, “you’re unreasonable so I’ve given up trying to please you.” Those kinds of comments invoke guilt, which is manipulative.

divorcinganarcissistblog
divorcinganarcissistblog
7 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

Yes AllOutofKibble… it can actually be overwhelming to make decisions for yourself after allowing someone else that power for so long. I’ve realized that I question everything I am doing, I second guess it, I have to battle through the WWTND (What Would The Narcissist Do?) and the guilt and shame he associated with so many of my personal choices. It takes work daily but you are right… it is so worth it!!

Georgia
Georgia
7 years ago

Don’t love who you thought he was or who you hope he may become. Love who he actually IS.
Don’t bet on potential.

“If you’ve ever stayed in a relationship long past its sell by date, you’ll have worried about what you’ve ‘put in’ and become focused on getting a return on investment. Instead of thinking about who they consistently are and the present, you think about the good ‘ole days and wish they’d change back. Or you look to the future and practically squeeze your eyes shut and cross your fingers and toes that they’ll realise the potential you’ve envisioned for them and the relationship.”

(all from Baggage Reclaim) – also great quotes for previous post!

Regina
Regina
7 years ago
Reply to  Georgia

You are so right, this is how I thought of it, and investment I was afraid to sell off before the market crashed.
Cross your fingers and pray “Please Lord, tell me I didn’t waste precious decades of my life on an Asshole!! Say it ain’t so!”
The market crashed and the little bag you finally run off with at least has your soul in it!

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago

I regret I stayed so long and sacrificed so much of my self respect. It’s just there were so many reasons I kept crying, “but I love him.” I was totally invested and committed not just to him, but to our vows, to our family, to our future, to our legacy. My loyalty runs deep, and I’m not ashamed of that. Also, the needs of our family came before my own. Plus, I did not fully realize the landscape of our marriage had changed because he hid his infidelity, and things seemed so good between us. Add to that I didn’t even know there was a cheater playbook, and I guess I should be willing to understand why it took me two full years to leave him. But still.

Even though now the anguish of heartbreak seems unbearable at times, betrayal stings, and change in the wake of this tragedy is scary, I am much better off looking at my actual circumstances, facing the end of our marriage head on, and seeing that my spouse has lost his mind along with his moral compass and any shred of decency or good judgement he ever had.

I believed it when he told me he’d never do it again and actually thought he would move out or file if he didn’t love me. I was not thinking with the mind of a cheater who just wanted cake. My eyes have been open, CL, and through my tears I can see healing and a peaceful future ahead. I just need to get my bearings and move steadily toward them.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago

Never would have imagined – You are programmed correctly and that is to keep the bonds you have created as a family. Any normal person would feel like you do. In fact, with real men, it would take a gun to their head before they even contemplate leaving their families. But cheaters are never bonded with us to begin with, they are disordered mentally and never really attach. They go through the motions of getting married, having children, but they really aren’t invested. They just don’t put much thought into it, and when things no longer suit their needs, they just bail. Cowards do this.

kbchump
kbchump
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

“”But cheaters are never bonded with us to begin with, they are disordered mentally and never really attach. They go through the motions of getting married, having children, but they really aren’t invested. They just don’t put much thought into it, and when things no longer suit their needs, they just bail. Cowards do this””

^^^THIS^^^
My ex wife told me as she was dumping me for Mr Wonderful after 24 years together and 2 kids that not only had she been thinking about leaving for 2 years BUT it also “never felt right” in 24 years. Fuck her.

Annie Get Your Gun
Annie Get Your Gun
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

I didn’t realize that I married a coward, but I know I divorced one.

Chumpfor12
Chumpfor12
6 years ago

I know this is an older post, but Annie Get Your Gun “I didn’t realize that I married a coward, but I know I divorced one.” Best line ever. Thank you for this little gem, I will remind myself of this every single day!

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago

I just told asswipe exactly that a month ago. Oh and hes not human but an evil pod. He became furious saying why? My answer was you didnt not tell me about your strange not because you didnt want to hurt me but because you didnt want to suffer consequences being called out on it ergo slimy, sniffing coward pod. Big strong tough alfa male afraid of itty bitty me. Waa waa waa. Hes is all bark no bite. Whores afraid of him it delights her. Me im not told him to bite me.

Annie Get Your Gun
Annie Get Your Gun
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

“Bite me” is my favorite line. Yep, mine is a coward too. I didn’t want to admit it. What woman wants to admit that the man she chose cannot have a difficult conversation as an adult. I don’t like having difficult conversations either. I have them all day at work, every day, and the last thing I want to do in my personal life is confront a problem. But I’m an adult and it’s what we do.

I don’t scream obscenities at random drivers, I don’t get pissed at my kids and huff and puff around the house, and I don’t storm out of the house because my spouse calls me on my bullshit. I ignore reckless drivers, I tell my children what is expected and hold them accountable, and if my husband would tell me a concern I would have sat and listen and responded, not react in an overly emotional childlike behavior of denial, tantrums, or blame shifting. I also don’t feel the need to get tattoos on my body announcing to the world that I am a protector (in Latin no less) because I am a protector and my actions prove what tattooed words never can.

brit
brit
7 years ago

I lived with the same personality, complete opposite of the one he presents to outsiders. No one would believe it’s the same person.
I wonder this side of his personality has been revealed to his gf.
Not only a coward but a nasty bully. How brave he is behind the wheel of a car or to his wife and children. Same person couldn’t ask the gardener why he didn’t install the sprinkler system on the side of the house that we paid for.

Jim
Jim
7 years ago

What was he protecting ? Certainly not your marriage.

Annie Get Your Gun
Annie Get Your Gun
7 years ago
Reply to  Jim

Good question. I’d have to say he was protecting his image.

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago

Well said. Im pretty happy being me. Fuck that asswipe. I have the love and devotion of my kids. He doesnt. They only love him cause they have to just like he did with them they dont like him and one of them the girl rarely responds to him now. Hes talking to her about sharing holidays she puffed up and told him she does what she wants and she will see him when she wants not the other way around. Hes pissed at her and me about that blames me of course as always she screamed at her dad you are the asshole not mom!

Shechump
Shechump
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

I feel so so sorry for that poor child, it makes me want to sob.
The problems her Dad caused her, all for what?
And, she suffers the rest of her life.

Thank God for MamaBear!

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

Shes all grown and tough she used to idolize her dad because he rarely even pays attention to her even worse sunce the affair. I text her she answers me right away the rare occasions he texts her she makes him wait two or three days. He asks me hows shes doing hes jealous cause she and i talk and text all the time. I told him call her fuckhead not my job to tell you how shes doing.

Jim
Jim
7 years ago

I regret I stayed so long and sacrificed so much of my self respect

In a nutshell.

So much time, and youth, wasted. And I did love her. I didn’t love me enough.

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago
Reply to  Jim

Your comments are always very pithy! A man of few words. I hope it drives your cheater wild with frustration!!

Maree
Maree
7 years ago
Reply to  Jim

“So much time, and youth, wasted. And I did love her. I didn’t love me enough”.
Jim, my problem is/was that I never, ever loved or valued myself and that is another very long story. Having said that, I “loved, valued and respected” everyone and everything in my life so much so that I literally became invisible and I always referred to myself as just “plain old Maree”, never as someone’s daughter, sister, wife, mother or anything, I was just nothing in my own mind and yet now I realise I am something and of good solid value and that I always have been.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago
Reply to  Maree

You are a gem, Maree.

Maree
Maree
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

:). Thank you LaJ.

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.

Kahil gibran

This is all of us here in the chump nation.

Athene
Athene
7 years ago

NWHI, you have nothing to regret or feel ashamed about. You loved truly and loyally and of course you wanted to keep your marriage and your family together. Almost everyone here has followed the same path. Some got off the path sooner, and some later, but the point is the journey leads to the same place eventually. The fact that you can’t think like a cheater or anticipate the baseness to which someone can sink is a testament to your goodness, your moral compass, and your decency. His is in the toilet, as you now see. Don’t beat yourself up for not seeing it sooner.

Regina
Regina
7 years ago
Reply to  Athene

We should have flushed earlier!

mickeyblueeyes
mickeyblueeyes
7 years ago
Reply to  Regina

No doubt they would be one of those annoying turds that take a couple of flushes!

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
7 years ago

And true love isn’t just purely permissive. It set limits for the health of all like standing firm against abuse.

renewed
renewed
7 years ago

Divorce Minister, can you give a little info about 180, no contact from a biblical perspective, love and forgiveness. I’ve been looking at 1Corithians 5 but I’d like more scripts if you can list them. No explanation needed but if I can get some references.
I at one time a looooong time ago, thought we were to suffer in silence, forgiving all the while listening to chanting monks in the background. My ex took advantage of that. I’ve since then changed but people often use Christian beliefs in an effort to further manipulate their victim.
Thanks

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago
Reply to  renewed

Just a note that “180,” as I understand it, is a reconciliation idea that chumps do a “180” and stay out of contact with a spouse in order to manipulate him or her into coming back or changing behavior. This contrasts with “no contact” as we talk about it here, which is a tool for getting the distance, perspective and peace of mind to recognizing gaslighting and manipulation from a disordered spouse or partner. “No contact” here is about removing ourselves from abuse in order to recover.

Renewed
Renewed
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Thanks for the heads up, you’re right!?

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago

We’d all like to hear more Divorce Minister wisdom on that subject.

EchoNoMorre
EchoNoMorre
7 years ago

Now three years later, it just boils down to I really LOVED him with all my heart. I no longer love him anymore. Given the preponderance of evidence of the despicable, cruel and criminal things he did to me, my rational mind can not allow this. My heart wanted to spackle and not look at what was really going on… it still tries to love him from time to time. I can review the evidence and I have agency to make decisions in my best interest now…
One big example of just wanting to love him despite what a monster he was in the end is I would fantasize about being with the man I married who was long gone. It took me so long to accept reality but now that is all I have.

junglechump
junglechump
7 years ago
Reply to  EchoNoMorre

I feel the same about my STBXH. It’s so hard.

unicornomore
unicornomore
7 years ago

OMG everyone here is right…but it took me SO long to realize it.

After lies, betrayal and abuse, nowdeadhusband said to me “I wont apologize for falling in love” completely ignoring the neglect he subjected his family to in order to devote time to this nebulous thing that descended on him like fairy dust….and his “lurve” justified the whole thing. Fuck that.

Looking back now, I would have had more respect for him if he would have said “I have decided I no longer want to be in this relationship and we will be handling the details of our divorce quickly and respectfully, please do not try to talk me out of it”. But no, the desire for CAKE CAKE CAKE motivates him to play me and blame me and manipulate me and lie to me – THAT is what pisses me off now.

and I did CHOOSE to love him…I remember after one particular round of abuse, it was so bad that I felt myself come to a crossroads and CHOOSE to keep loving him (which I did for another 8 years until I learned more of what he did since the only truth I got was trickle truth). I would have been better off if I had chosen not to love him.

divorcinganarcissistblog
divorcinganarcissistblog
7 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Yes! My soon to be ex Narcissist has told me so many times “I deserve to be loved and appreciated” and “since you don’t appreciate me and since you abandoned me… you can’t get upset when someone else wants to love me.” He also insists that he never ‘cheated on’ because you know apparently having sex with someone else while you are married does not equal cheating. He justifies it all by saying that I had already emotionally abandoned him so it doesn’t count.

It Is What It Is
It Is What It Is
7 years ago

My exN said a similar thing, “you killed our love years ago so I no longer felt married to you”. He, of course failed to let me in on this information. He was still playing husband and father, while living a double life of debauchery. When asked why he didn’t leave “years ago” if he had felt that way, he replied that the kids were young, etc. He only decided to leave when he had an acceptable replacement he found on a dating site. Of course he didn’t actually leave as I was dancing desperately for another couple of years. Eventually, his girlfriend sent me a letter setting me straight about their “true luv” and I filed. Best decision I ever made.

Regina
Regina
7 years ago

Passive-aggressive! You are supposed to know that he loves french toast and doesn’t like your razor left in the shower, the kids to be in bed at a certain time, dinner at 6:00 pm, or some other lame excuse he/she has been holding against you for years. Seething under the surface with crazy lame shit to hold against you. Building a case against you while you are fat, dumb & happy thinking everything is fine & that they love you. Ugh.
You could really never win, the deck was stacked against you.

It Is What It Is
It Is What It Is
7 years ago
Reply to  Regina

Amen!! They are the ultimate grudge holders. We constantly forgive them, yet they let every imagined slight fester against us.

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago

Funny how THEY get to decide what ‘counts’ and doesn’t, what’s allowed and what isn’t! And it’s always in THEIR favour. But I’m sure that’s just a coincidence ……

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Great point KarenE. They are the supreme being and authority (in their minds) that what they say goes. Yeah, since they have such great morals and values that they should be the ones preaching values for others. We need to bend our narrative to fit their own fucked up notions. No thanks. Anytime I deal with someone who thinks everything is my fault, I’m out in a millisecond. I’m not dealing with that kind of mental toxicity. And this guy justifies that his affair isn’t cheating is a mental nut bag who belongs in the looney bin. No use in arguing with crazy.

StartofSomethingGood
StartofSomethingGood
7 years ago

So needed this today! Thank you!!!

Renewed
Renewed
7 years ago

I forgave him, even though he was a cruel heartless, mean, dishonest, cheating SOB. You can’t fault a snake for being a snake.
Someone I know often says ” I love you with the love of Jesus.” That’s what my goal is now to love and not hate.

Renewed
Renewed
7 years ago
Reply to  Renewed

Not the gooey love that Chumplady is speaking of, but one we give to a despicable human being from afar.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Renewed

Renewed

Love from afar? Love yourself, not the despicable. Part of detaching is to look at their actions. Had to get STD testing and treatment? Discarded as if I was trash?

The opportunity to detach with love was not in the playbook.

If you make two lists, one of the excuses they used to maintain their position on the pedistal and one of their actions you can detach with self love.

Reject the excuses which come with blame. It wasn’t love.

renewed
renewed
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

:”Love with the love of Jesus” or “loving from afar” is not romantic or erotic love. It’s recognizing an individual for who they are, what they did and letting go of your right to seek vengence. If I hate him I only hold myself captive. We share a family together and any poison brought into the family will be carried by him only. He did what his character dictated and therefore is a despicable human being, but still a human being and the father of my kids with many talents. His loss, not mine.
We all reap what we sow. I have given the right of vengence to God.

Tessie
Tessie
7 years ago
Reply to  renewed

Sorry, just not evolved enough to love cheater ex from any perspective. My best effort seem to be meh. Vengeance and justice are between him and Spirit. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I’m not giving him anymore time, thought or pain than I have to. Because of circumstances, I can’t opt out entirely, which sucks, frankly, but I do try to minimize it as much as possible.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  renewed

I can’t find that place first because I will never respect him. Secondly, every action was deliberate, and it’s a waste of energy loving an evil person

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Also, loving an evil person can get you killed. Or at a minimum, ruin your whole life, and cause loss of sanity and happiness.

What is the pay off?

They see your love as weakness, and will keep coming back to exploit and hurt you until you are a puddle on the floor. They will step over you, and move on.

Loving that, even with detachment or some type of religion or spiritual bent would be…tragic and a waste of precious time.

Renewed
Renewed
7 years ago
Reply to  SabineSavoy

What exactly are you referring to as love? Praying that God has his will in an individual’s life is not a waste of time. For those that believe we are told to pray for our enemies. For me prayer has in no way diminished my life but in fact just the opposite. We do have some rewards here on life as well as after death.

renewed
renewed
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Find your peace and take care of you.

Carmella1722
Carmella1722
7 years ago
Reply to  renewed

I don’t think it’s about making a choice between love and hate, its about accepting some very painful truths. The opposite of love isn’t hate it’s indifference, or in chumpspeak, meh.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  renewed

I do have peace and I am taking care of myself. I found that once I stopped loving my abuser.

ICanAlmostSeeTheMeh!
ICanAlmostSeeTheMeh!
7 years ago

This is so powerful to read. The same agency they employed to be evil… to lie, gaslight, cheat, and withhold sex, and leave me and our son is the same agency I can choose to use for good… to choose to let go of love that was abused… to let go of the hopium pipe… to let go of the past… and to create a better day today.

What Mr. Sparkles has now with OW isn’t love. It’s manipulation and lies and control. He began that relationship with LIES (and I will prove it in court, which is my superpower!)… and as we know, any relationship that begins with lies, ends with lies.

I choose not to love Mr. Sparkles today. I choose to stop looking backward because that view isn’t going to change.

As Georgia above said, “Don’t bet on potential.”… I add… “Even Charles Manson had ‘potential’!”

TheMuse
TheMuse
7 years ago

I can Almost, these are great!
1. “choose to let go of love that was abused”
2. “stop looking backward because that view isn’t going to change”

cutting and pasting these to put into my journal
thanks for putting these healing thoughts into words

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago

His potential wasn’t realized because I was doing all the work. In the end I was blamed because he couldn’t get anywhere. It’s funny now. He was living his potential all along I just didn’t know he was that Limited.

I had to alter my life around his business and business was his code word for cheating. His business is failing and he’s going into his future penniless. Lol

M
M
7 years ago

I really loved my husband. I still divorced him and got the hell away from him. When someone has deliberately, with malice aforethought, over an extended period of time and repeatedly taken actions that have threatened your life and your security and your spirit, then you need to run. You can still love them from afar if you must.

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago
Reply to  M

M, this is IT, all the way.

I always thought that if two people loved each other, they could figure out the hard stuff in their lives and their relationship. That’s a big part of what kept me trying, after Affair #1. Well, I really did love him, and I kicked him out after I found out about Affair #2, still loving him. I knew my heart would eventually catch up with my head (and it did). What helped was recognizing that HE DIDN’T LOVE ME. He loved himself, and he loved some of what I brought to HIM, but not actually me, myself, as I am, the way I loved him. And what killed any love for him that I had left, killed it dead dead dead, was recognizing that he also didn’t love his kids, or at least not enough to actually think about their well-being, as he made a year and a half’s worth of decision that impacted their lives in huge ways.

That’s not love. I’m not sure what it is, I guess just kibbles and image management. Disgusting stuff.

Drew
Drew
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Yeah, what kind of father bails on sending their kids to college (when he can well and truly afford it?), and steals their savings? Who never attends their children’s High School activities because he is busy fucking his skank? Who buys their children cars then wants them written into the settlement? Who hands out scholarships to other people’s children, takes a family vacation to check out colleges and just never shows up when their kid is off to college? Who vacates the family home with twenty eight years of stuff, returns to vandalize it and allows it to foreclose?!?!? Graduations come along and his whole dysfunctional family shows up. If that isn’t disgusting I don’t know what is.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Drew

My friend’s dad was exactly like this. He left her mom to be with other women, and never contributed a dime to my friend’s education. She went to Law school and become a successful lawyer. Meanwhile, he contributes to charities and other organizations, has a high position in his company, yet doesn’t contribute a dime towards his own child. Yup. I see this happen often. It’s disgusting indeed. Doesn’t give a shit about her mom and doesn’t give a shit about his very own daughter.

TheMuse
TheMuse
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

KarenE, I always love your posts. I think we had a similarly narcissistic cheater… when My Exhole was Raging at me, back in the a regular occurence on the cycle of abuse rollercoaster I lived in, he was always blathering on about me not “validating” him. Chump that I am, I would try to interject ideas about how we could, I could, whatever – do things differently. He would ALWAYS burst out screaming, “It’s! Not! About! You! Muse!” This went on for sixteen years. Silly me, I thought yeah, if two people love each other they could talk it out. But he seemed to resent my very existence. After being screamed at, spittle dribbling down his vile chin, I would sometimes cry because I could hold it in no longer. Voila! Cheater would instantly Burst Into Tears because it’s always (don’t you forget it!) ALL ABOUT HIM. He was the victim the poor little guy. Muse wouldn’t understand him, couldn’t understand his intensity (rage) over petty little shit that a normal person would just deal with. I don’t know if it’s scientific or not but my conclusion is that he was having a narcissistic injury… he actually hated himself. While thinking he’s Speshul.

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

Oh god, Muse, YES! When things got bad (and to justify his cheating), my ex would always complain about not feeling loved, because I somehow wasn’t ‘showing’ my love. Meanwhile, I was ridiculously warm, affectionate, sexual, and supportive, and constantly responding to his always-shifting ‘needs’. Frequent narcissistic injury, and self-hate wrapped in entitlement and arrogance.

TheMuse
TheMuse
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

same here and not only was I loving, warm, and supportive but I would apologize on and on and endlessly on but it was NEVER enough for his wounded state. WTF.

divorcinganarcissistblog
divorcinganarcissistblog
7 years ago
Reply to  M

M, I feel the same way. I really genuinely love a man who has almost succeeded in ruining my life. But the turning point for me was realizing that he never actually loved me. He loved the supply I gave him, he loved what my love did for his ego… but it was never about me… anyone could fulfill that for him. It got easier to move ahead with the separation, no contact, and divorce from there.

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago

This. He didn’t love me but he loved that I loved him. And who wouldn’t enjoy watching someone else’s face light up with happiness when all you did was walk in the room? And the sad thing is that I recognized this fact 32 years ago, but I truly did feel that intense wash of warm, happy emotion when he was with me and I brushed the non-reciprocity out of my mind so as not to interfere with the dopamine rush I loved so much. Asking a chump to walk away from their beloved narc is like asking any addict to recognize their addiction is causing more pain than good. CL is our own personal Chumps Anonymous, I guess.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

In essence he loved that I loved him. No more

Georgia
Georgia
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Yep, same as now he’s hurt because I am hurt… mofo!!!

Pearshaped
Pearshaped
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

Wow, Dixie Chump. That old song “I love how you love me” just jumped into my mind. I never gave any thought to the lyrics before, but now it’s kind of an OMG moment!

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago

One counselor I worked with, way back when, talked about how you can’t make yourself stop feeling what you feel, so the only reasonable way to let go when you still feel deep love is to change your thinking about what the love means in your real life.

The “but how can I walk away when I still love him so much?” became “the feeling of love that’s been holding me back is still strong, but that is just one part of what’s happening, and it isn’t a problem solver.”

I see now that she was teaching me to allow my feelings while bringing thinking back to the front of my awareness, to empower myself to take action without invalidating my heart or wasting precious time and energy on impossible efforts. She helped me move into “Yes, I still love him, and maybe I always will, but he’s an asshole, and this is killing me, and I need my f’ing life back.”

Smart lady.

chris1731
chris1731
7 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Excellent point of view… Thanks for sharing Amiisfree!

I needed this post today:)

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago
Reply to  chris1731

🙂

neverwouldhaveimagined
neverwouldhaveimagined
7 years ago

Yes, lots of spackle. Lots of hopium. Ugh.

divorcinganarcissistblog
divorcinganarcissistblog
7 years ago

“hopium” I haven’t heard that one yet… its perfect!! 🙂

Over and Out
Over and Out
7 years ago

D-day was the ultimate buzz-kill for me. I had put up with 20 years of basic BS when I discovered the cheating… That was the deal-breaker.

Up until then he had me snowed and I played with the hand I was dealt because I loved my family, but from that day forward the rules of his game were changed. I still had vestiges of chumpiness to sort through (that perhaps he would straighten up and fly right), however, I started getting my ducks in a row as my gut was telling me he wasn’t gonna change. My gut didn’t lie.

Love yourself enough to not waste your love, time and energy in a bad investment.

strongwoman
strongwoman
7 years ago
Reply to  Over and Out

Over and out – this was my life too. Thanks for putting it into words.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
7 years ago
Reply to  Over and Out

Same here Over and Out, up until finding out about my X’s affair, I was doing my best to build a future for our family, I thought we were on the same team, I attributed his crankiness to stress from work, from parenting, from missing our families, etc.

Then I found evidence about his betrayal and lies, and progressively figured out that his “I love yous” were really “Dang chumptitude, you make me look so good!” Deal breaker, and cue to divorcing him.

Now I put my energy towards my and our kiddo’s growth, a much better investment!

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago
Reply to  Chumptitude

Oh gosh, the crankiness!!!!!!!!!!!! The negativity, the criticism of everyone and everything, the judgment, the moodiness, the walking on eggshells, the trying to manage the kids so they wouldn’t act up and make his crankiness worse, the wrecking of perfectly nice days, occasions and trips, the doing more and more and more to take stress and annoyance off him so he might be less cranky ….!

Weirdly, I got super fed up with the crankiness almost a year before Affair #2 led to my kicking him out, told him I intended to end our relationship because of it, he said he didn’t want that and SUPER improved, much less cranky and unpleasant. The kids and I loved that, it was SO much better for us, we showed him so much appreciation for that effort, our sex life improved, everything was better.

So he fucked around again and I kicked him out, and later I find out that although he treated us better through that last period, he was still thinking ALL the same negative, critical nasty things, he was just ‘biting his tongue’ on them, and resented that I required him to behave better. And apparently how much happier the kids and I were meant nothing to him, zilch. Sigh.

Over and Out
Over and Out
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

This is how chumpy I was — when our kids were little, they would get so excited when Daddy got home from work. One night he told to me that I needed to keep the kids busy and off of him when he first got home because he was “tired after working all day and he needed time to unwind”. I was absolutely floored by that request.

However after his continued bitching about it, I started giving them their baths at that time to keep him happy. I also told him that some day he would regret being so selfish because when the kids got older that excitement would disappear and no one would give a damn when he came home.

From then on, he’d come home, grab a few beers and disappear to the computer room for an hour or so. The kids eventually caught on that he was home, but he wouldn’t allow them to bother him until he ready. That kind of deflated their enthusiasm.

Years later, I discovered why he had such a damn obsession with the computer… Porn and chat rooms.

All those years he missed out on our children’s pure joy to see him walk through the door every night.

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Well KarenE you just described 20 years of my life in a single paragraph!

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

I wish these assholes would have appreciated you all…I truly do. You are so witty and well written, insightful and fun.

There was a friend of mine who told me the funniest, saddest story. She divorced her husband and had remarried and was so happy! I said, why do you leave your first husband? How did you find these happiness?

She stared into the distance, and she said…many reasons, but here is the main one.

Every morning, each morning, without fail, for 10 years….when the alarm clock would go off, and they were to start their day, her husband (EVERY MORNING) would

exclaim:

“AAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW SHIT!!!!”

Every. single. morning.

She said one morning, she got up, threw on a robe, grabbed her Pekinese Ming, got her keys and never went back. She never went back. She had her sister get her few clothes and knickknacks and she did it all through her lawyer. She never saw or spoke to him again. She learned of his death through the obits.

She is my hero.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Chumptitude

What’s up with the crankiness? these disordered individuals are always cranky, and we keep making excuses for them. I had 2 abusive exes and the crankiness was always present, and I twisted myself in a pretzel to be pleasant with them, to set the example for them. Now when I see someone is cranky all the time, I’m outta there. Life is short to be dealing with a friggin moody losers all the time. My mother was always cranky, and she was mentally ill, incessantly raging and NEVER happy. So glad I went NC with her. No thanks, she can direct her crankiness all towards herself.

Annie Get Your Gun
Annie Get Your Gun
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

Yep, crankiness. His response to me saying how beautiful the day was, “It’s supposed to rain tomorrow.” I think that if they were pleasant we would want to be around them and talk to them. This may have led to a slip of the tongue and an uncovered lie. Better to be cranky and keep you at a distance and focusing your energy on trying to make him happy then for you to get a closer look.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

I think, in some cases, the crankiness is a sign of the devaluation process. Everything we chumps do, or the kids do, or the cats and dogs do, irritates them and feeds the devaluation. Or because they have already devalued us, all that we do irritates them. It’s a cycle.

Drew
Drew
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

LAJ, this was a truth for me. I believe he started devaluing me in a Big Way the second he began his “true love” affair. I stood up for myself and called him on his crap because my children (in high school and college) were witness to it. I knew I deserved to be treated well. I wish I had the knowledge to key into those waving red flags though…as I do feel like I wasted a great deal of my life married to him. Now I am making up for lost time, trying to fit everything I want in (and still support my kids, who are still struggling with their pretend father and Disney Dad). Blech!

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Yes, because God forbid they approve of anything we do. The only way they relate to us is with contempt and disapproval. The goal is not to relate to us as equals, but to relate to us as inferior to them. And they train us to know our place, and this constantly sucking up to them, trying to gain their approval. I don’t play into that anymore. The second someone is perpetually cranky at me and disapproves what I say, there won’t be a next meeting. Or a next time ever.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

It’s a sign they are not getting their way, and other people will pay for that. Most of these cheaters, once discovered, also had some version of “You weren’t listening to me…you weren’t doing what I wanted…You weren’t doing what I asked,” as a way to justify their affairs.

Both the crankiness and their affair-excuses are a sign that they feel *entitled* to shape our identities and our behaviors; we are not human beings to them with our own thoughts, feelings, opinions–our value to them is dependent on how well we conform to their “perfect-life-for-ME” agenda.

Over and Out
Over and Out
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

The good old wife appliance…

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

~The Crankiness

I have experienced this as well, both with Meth Boy and some other freaks. I think it is because they do not have any inner resources to fall back on when they do not have the following:

drama
deceit
drugs
secret sex or sex in the moment
or some type of pleasure (to their warped minds)

They need constant stimulation because their minds are like wastelands, with parched soil and tumbleweeds blowing across it, no oasis of calm in sight. So, they get irritated, rude and moody when they are not being “entertained” or the lights are not sparking in their strange minds.

They are not capable of experiencing peaceful JOY from everyday pleasures or life; a good book, a cup of coffee, a morning walk, just talking in bed. They need the high drama, the he said/she said, the secret affairs, all that underground stuff that makes them feel superior to the trusting chump.

Meth Boy and I had no money problems, a true blessing in this economy. We had 4 homes between us to stay in, one on a river, nice cars, no children, and lots of free time, as I work from home or anywhere and he does not have to work. A dream life.

And guess what? 97% of the time, he was NOT happy. I can count on two hands the times he was truly relaxed and happy. (And it was probably chemically induced and false) He was always: sad, raging, high, passed out or distracted and acting cranky and nervous.

I would try to show him how lucky we were…a fool’s errand.

What a shit sandwich I settled for. It is pathetic. It is absurd what I accepted as “love”.

Regina
Regina
7 years ago
Reply to  SabineSavoy

SS; Great post! Loved the visual of parched soil and tumbleweeds going by in their minds. Cue up Tombstone Territory!

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago
Reply to  Regina

Thank you Regina!!!

I know that topic first hand. I was sitting in Panera Bread with Meth Boy (thanks Anita!!!) and an elderly woman came up to me, put her arms around me at the drink machines and told me I was with a demon and that I needed to escape. She did not appear to be homeless or insane.

This is because he was eating stone faced, not speaking, barely holding his aggression in check and I had tears streaming down my face.

What a great life! And this I miss?

Now-I-Know-What-Hell-Looks-Like
Now-I-Know-What-Hell-Looks-Like
7 years ago
Reply to  SabineSavoy

OMGosh Sabine! On 3 separate occasions complete strangers said things like that to me, just out of the blue! Of course all of our family and friends thought he was such a great guy because he was very good at hiding his true self when we were around anyone else. He even had our entire church congregation fooled while he put on a big show of studying to be a Pastor, participated in VBS, finding ways to entertain all the kids, etc. He had a VERY good mask and wore it well but somehow those strangers saw right through it and tried to warn me. I wish I had listened.

JK
JK
7 years ago

It’s very difficult to accept that you’ve loved in vain, even after you have the proof of years of infidelity and serial cheating in front of you. Inside, you just keep screaming NO! NO! NO! I think that’s at least part of the reason why so many of us try to reconcile after D-day – we’re trying to avoid the truth that our love was wasted on a person that did not value us in the same way. It’s very hard to come to grips with that if you were really invested, had kids, a home, built a life and had plans for the future.

Cheaters were not who we thought they were, we misjudged them, they exploited us, and we did love in vain (at least in terms of my own views of what love looks like). Bad enough, but after years of having our self-worth destroyed, we discover that the road home requires us to find something in us that has been siphoned down to a minimum over years of abuse – love for ourselves. Tough hill to climb, but that’s the path. Choose yourself, and stop investing in someone who doesn’t deserve you. You can never love yourself in vain.

FindingBliss
FindingBliss
7 years ago
Reply to  JK

Thanks for writing this, JK! I’m so glad to have found the way home, as you described it. Yes, my life was being siphoned off. I’m busy refueling and refilling the tanks now. Ah, that’s better

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  JK

Well-said, JK. We were conned, bamboozled, out of money, love, and years of our lives. Serial cheaters are nothing more than grifters, moving on to the next big score.

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Grifter is the PERFECT word, Tempest.

Tessie
Tessie
7 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

Nailed it Tempest!

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
7 years ago
Reply to  JK

Great way to encapsulate chump recovery, thank you JK!

Cry Me A River
Cry Me A River
7 years ago

I saw this last week and it seems to fit. I just wish I’d seen it before 4 years of ‘yeah but I love him’….

‘if you’re torn between your head and heart remember that one is specifically designed for thinking and the other is a pump’

I wish I knew who to attribute the quote to because it’s fabulous

Cheaterssuck
Cheaterssuck
7 years ago
Reply to  Cry Me A River

Awesome quote!! So true!

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago

I have often reflected on what it must be like to be the cheater and watch someone you are abusing in every way discover the truth and then continue to indicate they still love you in word and deed. How surreal that must be. “I am a complete shit. She knows it. She is apologizing to ME!! Wow.” I imagine they find it very affirming of their high self opinion and also extremely useful. There really must be no limit to really bad things they can now imagine doing without any fear of consequences. I suggest that we chumps turn these assholes’ world view on its head. Let them know they suck in your every facial expression, word, and deed. Their mother obviously never let them know they suck … so we’ll just have to do it ourselves. The world will be a better place. Be a humanitarian. Do it for Mother Earth, if not yourself. Just.Do.It.

Deedee
Deedee
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

Dixie Chump I have often wondered the same.That’s why I could kick myself for ever having done the prolonged pick me dance.How powerful and smug he must have felt to have me competing for him.These disordered fuckers get a high from the triangulation.
I prefer silence to pointing out the horror of who he really is however.It is impossible to prick the conscience of someone who has none and who is utterly devoid of empathy.What these people hate is the sound of silence.No engagement.No energy.Nothing signals to their brains that you are done forever like NC.

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago
Reply to  Deedee

You are right … No Contact shatters their world like no other action. At least I HOPE it does!!! I like to think he is occasionally lonely over in that one bedroom roach-infested apartment. Or perhaps “inconvenienced” … probably the best I can hope for. I am still working on not spending mental energy pondering what emotion he might be feeling at any given moment. Meh is still a long ways off.

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

Dixie,
Your point is so perceptive about how the cheater must feel with the chump’s Ghandi like forgiveness for abominations.
Meth Boy actually said to me: I would not put up with the shit I do from a woman for one second.

If that was not someone telling me who they were.. what was? I just stared at him in silence and I guess…shock?

They think we are fools.

Let me be clear on this: (Sorry if it is gender specific but I can only go on what I know)

When a man is done with a woman, he is DONE. He moves on and cheats and he is out there.
He is not on a website analyzing any of his behavior, mooning over how he wronged her. I think that they stay on when it is convenient (food, clean clothes, an errand runner) and when they get that bit sorted out, they move right on.

Forgiving them when they act like creatures from hell further emboldens them to act more monstrous. I see this now. It cost me a lot to learn it.

*Loneliness and the fear of abandonment, is a terminal disease and can make you behave like an absolute clueless fool*

renewed
renewed
7 years ago
Reply to  SabineSavoy

“cheater must feel with the chump’s Ghandi like forgiveness for abominations.

and

Forgiving them when they act like creatures from hell further emboldens them to act more monstrous”

Forgiveness for me is a setting of boundaries. I think Paul said it best when he told us to expell the immoral brother and let satan have his way with him. Quite different than what you describe. We don’t swoon an twiddle our thumbs over the cheaters action. Quite the opposite.

You get out of the way ansd let God have his way.

SabineSavoy
SabineSavoy
7 years ago
Reply to  renewed

I think staying in a marriage long term with prove of fidelity is Ghandi like forgiveness. What else would it be?

It is certainly not holding them to any standards of decency..right?

But, everyone does not believe that a divine cosmic justice will make all the pain in the world go away. They just don’t. It is a deus ex machina solution, magical, to some minds.

But, if that gives you comfort that is super. But not everyone can hope that a Sky Wizard or a “Satan” idea will make years of abuse, betrayal, treachery and heartache set right in an abacus that no one can see, or has no proof of.

JeepTess
JeepTess
7 years ago
Reply to  SabineSavoy

Fellow Chumps…I got a text from satan 2 days ago…

…and it read…

‘Somehow I don’t feel responsible for everything that happened. I miss you everyday.’

…narc much satan?

…yeah…I don’t think there is much to hope for in relationships with these disordered users.

…I’m guessin he was ‘dateless’ or ‘lonely’ or ‘low on fuel – aka kibbles’…ugh

Carmella1722
Carmella1722
7 years ago
Reply to  SabineSavoy

People get stuck for all kinds of reasons. And forgiveness isn’t condoning or accepting the behavior, it’s letting go which consequently gets you unstuck.

Deedee
Deedee
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

You will get there.It took me years to get to meh.
I don’t think these people are capable of feeling deep emotions.Their emotions are superficial and transient as sociopaths are incapable of truly bonding with anyone.
When you withdraw into silence and stop granting energy and attention it causes them the discomfort of feeling the lack of narcissistic supply.
I loved him with all my heart and soul and it caused me so much anguish to let go of the fantasy of who I thought he was.Healing took a long time but I am healed whereas he will always be a sociopath.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Deedee

DeeDee

“I don’t think these people are capable of feeling deep emotions.Their emotions are superficial and transient as sociopaths are incapable of truly bonding with anyone
When you withdraw into silence and stop granting energy and attention it causes them the discomfort of feeling the lack of narcissistic supply.”

This is it exactly! Great post and walking away from a sociopath is the club I want to be a member in.

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  Deedee

I want to be at where you are im getting there. I become more indifferent every day. When i hear you dont smile at me….you dont chit chat with me….why are you not listening to me? I just turn and say you fired me remember and being friends is not on the menu. Hes finally buying the house his shop is here so i see him six days a week. He acts like nothing happened i act indifferent as in when is the closing date theres a life waiting for me i need to get to it. He looks sad and still keeps yapping. They just dont get it. Him and his whore are broken up yet again. And again my fault. I guess a part of me will always love the man i married but im slowly burying those memories. The pod i divorced cant stand the sight of him whiny, crabby lying little pod bitch. Two different creatures i guess the latter is what he is since he let the demons out. I want no part of him and his madness anymore. I just want to be free and me. He talks about his future with huge dread and self pity wah, wah, wah. He puts on a fantastic act when other people are around but me, his family, his kids suffer the real him, verbal abuse and anger they dont deserve, neither did i. Let the whore have him, shes thrown him out four times she thinks she can change him. Ha! Good luck with that. I aint perfect but im feeling a whole lot better. Love you guys you have all been a life saver.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

“When i hear you dont smile at me….you dont chit chat with me….why are you not listening to me?”

If things were going well with the OW and they were still together, he wouldn’t be saying these things to you. It’s because he’s single again and needs attention, that’s why he’s coming back to good ol’ faithful Kar Marie. So manipulative. And these are the consequences of his decisions. Why should you listen to him or talk to him? Did he do any of those things when he was cheating on you? Too bad, so sad for him. He is realizing the consequences of his decisions and coming to grip with it.

NotTodaySatan
NotTodaySatan
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

It’s chilling to think about. Mine actually admitted that he didn’t think about how his actions impacted me or our child. He was well aware of his behavior and he didn’t think it was something that needed changing. Gives me the creeps in retrospect.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  NotTodaySatan

To this day, 1.5+ years out from D-day, mine disavows that he betrayed the children, too. And disavows that the affair was a big deal, and says it was 50% my fault because “marital problems.” He’d rather blameshift than try to win back DD15 who hasn’t talked to him in a year and a half. They don’t change.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Saddam flew into an utter rage after an MC session when he told me his cheating was 50% my fault and I told him it was 100% his fault. He lost his shit because I wouldn’t agree with that bullshit. What is it with the 50% shit? No, I had zero to do with your deciding to cheat, my admission that we had some relationship problems does not mean I’m responsible for your dysfunctional way of dealing with it. And by the way asshole, cheating on me because my Mom died and I wasn’t there for you is not a reason to cheat, it’s a reason to help me for Christ’s sake! The one time I needed you to take care of me you fucked me over because I was depressed and while I was supposed to help you through chronic depression you couldn’t even help me for 9 months? Fuck you and the stupid woman you fucked instead of helping me.

WiserToday
WiserToday
7 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Other than it being the death of my son, same same. I’m sorry he wasn’t able to be there for you, Dat.

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago
Reply to  NotTodaySatan

My ex also admitted to me that for a YEAR AND A HALF, from the moment Schmoopie hit on him, through my kicking him out shortly thereafter, up until our kids started refusing to see him, he NEVER thought about how all this was impacting them or would impact them. NEVER thought about how they felt through so many decisions he made that any functioning 10 year old could see had huge effects on them. NEVER thought about how to make this easier for them, how to help them feel secure in his love and caring, how to preserve his relationship with him, not a SINGLE THOUGHT.

This is NOT normal. Frankly it makes me feel sick. I SO regret giving my kids this man as a father. They would have been better off if I’d just had kids on my own.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

KarenE

This is what sold me on his being a sociopath. The fact he chose to discard his children and granddaughter.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

That reminds me of something I asked my X after D-day. I said, “you spent numerous coffee shop hours with her, then went to her apartment, then you started to undress each other. At any point, did you think, “I should stop, this would hurt Tempest”?

He responded, “No, I was too focused on lust at that point.”

Cheater psyche in a nutshell. These are people who would not pass the marshmallow test, even if they knew the marshmallow was supposed to go to a starving child.

Chump Princess
Chump Princess
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

“These are people who would not pass the marshmallow test, even if they knew the marshmallow was supposed to go to a starving child.”

This is as a succinct and accurate description of how a Cheater’s or Entitled Person’s mind works as you will ever get – and apparently you met my EX. 🙂

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago
Reply to  Chump Princess

My ex would never pass the marshmallow test, even if he knew the marshmallow would go to his OWN starving child.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Not “normal,” as if “what decent people would do,” but “typical,” as in “how cheaters behave.”

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  NotTodaySatan

He didn’t think about how his actions impacted you or your child??! Are you kidding me? This is not normal, and denotes a total lack of conscience. And to add that he didn’t think his behavior needed changing, but yet was well aware of it. He’s likely to be a sociopath or psychopath. Someone who has an underdeveloped conscience and emotional maturity. So not normal, I shudder at the thought humans like this exist. I’m sorry this was your husband, what a monster he is. Big hugs to you.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

Kellia, I know a woman who has an son in grade school. She’s cheating. And she openly disrespects–devalues–her husband in public. She’s not thinking at all of her son. It’s all “me me me me me.” If cheaters thought about the impact of their behavior on their children and their spouse, they wouldn’t do what they do. In order to cheat, you have to devalue the people you are betraying. You have to think you are entitled to what you want and it doesn’t matter what happens to tun. In that sense, none of them are “normal.”

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

That’s just awful. As if these individuals get stuck at the age of 6, with no consideration of how their actions may affect others. It’s as if their emotional growth was stunted and they have adult bodies but the minds of 6 years old. You can’t expect a 6 year old to understand the ramifications of their actions, they’re not fully mature yet. Same with these disordered individuals, they think like children.

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

I’m convinced that my ex is a 4 year old in a big, handsome man’s body. But he’s also very very smart, so I think it’s not just about immaturity. It’s mainly the entitlement; he doesn’t have to think about consequences, for himself or anybody else, because, well, he doesn’t have to. And anybody who requires him to is a pain in the ass, and anybody who maintains boundaries and therefore creates consequences is mean, self-righteous and bitter. He’s always right, and even when he’s wrong, he’s right, and EVERYTHING is somebody else’s fault.

Tflan386
Tflan386
7 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Dixie Chump: Amen. You nailed it.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago

First off, it’s probably not love they have for the other person, it’s dysfunction and the highs and low drama makes you think it’s love, when it’s not. Love is calm, respectful, mutual. And waiting to be loved is not love. Also, if they love the person, then they should just shut up and not complain about the person or the relationship.

Renewed
Renewed
7 years ago

Ex gloated that even years later one of his OW still loved him and missed his d*ck. It was incredible boost to his ego to think that some woman out there somewhere was pining over him.Gag. He also referred to her as a troll in the same breath. History rewrite anyone? Towards the end he could not keep it inside any longer. A real gem.

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  Renewed

Asswipe said every woman hed ever been with still wanted him and would never forget what a great lover he is thats why all of them contacted him on facebook. And when i think of him i will think of him in bed and want him again. What an ego what an asshole first thing out of his mouth re what hes good at sex. I told him when you suck as a father, brother, friend, boyfriend and suck at relationships in general your old limp dick is not important. Stick with the bondage bitches dude they only want to get off.

Renewed
Renewed
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

Ego is right. What happens when that body part stops working?

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  Renewed

The body part did stop working that why he went off into bondage sex really needing to feel like man cause that screaming penis was failing him. Lots of tricks to make it snap to attention hey our bodies are never gonna be like when we were young. I accept it he didnt. That dick stopped working and all hell broke loose. Stupid ass. Massive amounts of viagra and sticking that ego still dont work its a mindset and hes got a bad one.

TheMuse
TheMuse
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

My Ex had a “trophy” folder in his PC of all of his conquests. There was one photo of me, the woman who paid for all his food, housing and cell phone for sixteen years and loved him with all my heart, gave into his fetishes and let him dominate and control me and my children. I finally cancelled the landline phone in my (formerly our) house last year when an ex GF from a foreign country called here looking for him, probably because she was going to be in the states soon. I found out AFTER D-Day, because I contacted his two prior longterm ex GF, that he stayed in touch with and continued to fuck and take them out to dinner, for the first 7 or 8 years that he was living in my house with me and my sons and being my “boyfriend.” Obviously means a lot to him to have his Exes pining for him for decades!

When I kicked his ass out on DDay one and only, he pleaded that “we could get back together if it didn’t work out with OW.” Fat chance… I told him NFW, that if he was “leaving” me (because he didn’t really leave, I kicked his ass OUT), for another woman, there was no way in hell that he would ever be getting back together with me.

What an asshole. What an overinflated ego.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago
Reply to  Renewed

It seems to be cheaterspeak to view the world as though another person’s genitals are such a specific point of unique focus that a person could/would miss the other person’s genitals specifically. It is so bizarre. By that logic, if someone loved your cooking, and you loved cooking for them, you would have to miss their taste buds, esophagus, stomach, and bowels (and anus, Nomar, LOL!) whenever they weren’t around.

So weird.

renewed
renewed
7 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Ex would often describe a woman in particular by a certain body part. You know “so and so with the big tits.” He also suffered with ED and hid his prescription. Modern medicine has provided the cheater with an extended time to cheat. It’s unfortunate as couples that have this issue really benefit from these meds.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  renewed

I would expect a 16 year old to talk like this, but not a grown man. Would you ever say oh that’s the guy with the bulging dick. This guy has the emotional maturity of a pimple faced immature 13 year old.