Dear Chump Lady, I’m a serial cheater and I want to change

how-many-counselors-does-it-take-to-change-a-lightbulb-one-but-the-lightbulb-has-to-want-to-change--f22acHey Chump Lady,

Found your book in the book store. It’s been tough to read, and I guess I’m doing that thing that a lot of asshole guys do — thinking I’m a unicorn, that I can change, that I can do better for my partner, that I can overcome this super shitty way of life.

I know your specialty is on the other end of things, but do you think people can change? How do they do so?

I am seeing a shrink for anxiety and am on my way to an SAA (Sex Addicts Anonymous) meeting.

I don’t want to be a bad man, but I am right now.

Felix

Dear Felix,

Thinking you could change (i.e., be a unicorn) isn’t what makes you an asshole. Knowing you don’t want to change and manipulating a chump into investing further in your relationship with false promises, so you can keep extracting value from that chump? THAT would make you an asshole. Knowing that you’re not really cut out for a monogamous relationship, but keep “committing” to one? THAT would make you an asshole. Risking your partner’s health and welfare in secret, while telling them to trust you? THAT would make you an asshole. The desire for self-improvement? No.

Yes, I believe people can change.

However, change is a long, slow, humbling process, and I am skeptical that people prone to self-indulgence and immediate gratification can sustain character change. It would require a huge values shift, from entitlement to empathy. From escapism to dealing-with-your-shit-ism. From narcissistic notions of gaming the system (more kibbles for ME!) to reciprocity and fair play.

This isn’t instant switch-o-change-o stuff. Character change occurs when the costs of being a “bad man” outweigh the perceived benefits. When it hurts you to hurt someone you love. Perhaps you do feel bad that you hurt your partner with your infidelities. But guilt isn’t enough — the fear of hurting someone you love should precipitate your actions. The connection and respect you feel for your partner should squelch entitled, escapist, let’s-go-fuck-someone-I-met-on-Craigslist notions. You should care enough to NOT hurt your partner.

Oh, but they’ll never know. Oh, but I deserve this. Oh, it’s just a bit of fun. Oh, but they pissed me off last Thursday, and they’re never going to fix X about themselves, so I’m entitled to this. Because I don’t get A, B, and C. Not enough anyway. And my partner doesn’t do P and Q. What’s life without Q?

If you’ve got a thousand rationalizations why cheating on your partner could be okay with certain mitigating circumstances, you’re not getting it.

Felix, I recently moved back to an area I moved away from 10 years ago. It’s changed a lot since I left. Yesterday I went to this farmer’s market I used to go to and I was wandering around the stalls thinking, “Where’s the Sticky Bun Lady? She should BE here! Where is she?!”

Even though I haven’t been to this market in over a decade, I childishly assumed it should be just as I left it. (In fact, the Sticky Bun Lady, I vaguely recall now, died of a stroke. Probably due in no small part to unfettered consumption of sticky buns…)

I resent that entire neighborhoods are missing and have been replaced with glassy high-rise condo units and fusion noodle cafes. I’m unnerved by the unfamiliar. Why can’t it go back to 2006? I’m MAD that I cannot get good sticky buns!

Felix, for you to be a serial cheater and come back to your relationship expecting it to still be there waiting for you is a lot more delusional than me thinking those sticky buns are there. To belabor my analogy — you firebombed the farmer’s market. And now you’re back.

How do you change after serial cheating?

First and foremost by recognizing and accepting that you destroyed your relationship. THAT relationship. It’s over. I’m sorry you broke it, but you’re not entitled to keep it. It’s changed. It’s been flattened. All the things you love about that farmer’s market? They’re all out. Trust, peaches, respect, sticky buns…

Sure, you could come in and offer to fix the farmer’s market! But you’d be doing a lot of grunt work for a long time. And those who invested deeply in the farmer’s market might not trust an arsonist with rebuilding. You can’t blame them for that. Even if you’ve truly changed in your heart, even if you scrub every toilet, and scrape blackened vegetables off every surface, and work tirelessly without pay, the memory of that explosion will haunt them.

Accepting consequences is the first step to improving your character. You don’t get to come back to the relationship you left. Is it fair to make your chump do the grunt work of rebuilding? Or worse, imply that they deserved to have their world exploded? Or demand a fully-functional market from a burnt-out wreck?  You can hardly expect your chump to put their life on hold while you figure out this self-improvement journey.

In my opinion, the best way forward is new lives for everyone. Chumps must rebuild, but let it be lives of their own creation on their terms, not yours.

You can go forward too into a new life. You don’t want to be that “bad man”? Don’t be. But if it was so shitty and bad, why did you go back for second and third (and 15th) helpings? Get real with yourself. You liked the perks of entitlement, the power trip. Fucking around feels great! Until it doesn’t. Because consequences.

Stick with the therapy. Accept the consequences. Good luck.

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Rebecca
Rebecca
7 years ago

In addition to all that Chump Lady said, have you told your spouse yet?
In order to rebuild a relationship built on trust, you must come clean with absolutely everything you did. EVERYTHING!
Answer any questions and provide any documentation requested: credit reports showing all credit cards, bank accounts and loans, along with the statements.
Then commit to a fair post-nuptial agreement that will hold up in court.

Linda2
Linda2
7 years ago
Reply to  Rebecca

Here is my problem. He never came clean! He knows I know what happened. The other women told me. But he never has admitted to more than a friendship. What drives a man to lie even when the truth is known? I have trouble getting to meh because of my obsession with hearing the truth from his lips. I am working on this.

JK
JK
7 years ago
Reply to  Linda2

Not knowing the truth has been the single biggest obstacle to my getting past this nightmare – and my ex knows it. After two years, and a crisis with our daughter, she came over for three hours and denied there was anything else to tell. Then, she admits to another year or so with one of her multiple affair partners as she’s about to walk out the door. This part of the betrayal is the worst – the not knowing (but really knowing).

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago
Reply to  Linda2

As long as your own road to peace requires “the truth” from someone who is a serial liar and cheater, you are putting your life and future in the hands of someone who has abused you and who lacks integrity. I will never, ever, hear the truth from Jackass but I trust that he sucks because of how he treated me.

ClaireS
ClaireS
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Maybe I’m too new to this post D-day phase of hell (because in truth it’s been years of hell, I was just too gaslighted to recognize the abuse). Maybe I’m too raw. D-day was much worse than I expected, however inchoately. I know, intellectually, that Fiend does not think like I do.

But I can’t get to “trust that they suck.”

I keep trying to understand what the hell happened, to make sense out of chaos. Worse, somewhere I know better. I teach, study, and write about power and cruelty on a historical level: this hideous group of people did horrendous things to another group of people for a number of different abhorrent reasons, but there are two constants: BECAUSE THEY COULD and THEY LIKED TO SUBORDINATE. At the individual level, Tempest notes that pathological liars are similarly driven by control and power.

The hell? I don’t make sense. I know but I don’t know? Somewhere I know they suck but I don’t understand that they suck? Just ask me … in a couple of hours I will be back in the fugue and fog….

Tequilatamm
Tequilatamm
7 years ago
Reply to  ClaireS

ClaireS: I read something written by Peace, another writer about cheating, which finally got me there.

It was something along the lines of: At some point you have to accept that some people actually have no emotion. They feel nothing.

It is true that my narc was incapable of crying. He was incapable of really being both physically and emotionally close during sex.

I am not those things. So it is hard for me to comprehend that anyone could put on such a convincing act. He had no emotion. No feeling. Not only didn’t give a shit about me, but didn’t give a shit about anyone. I understand now, looking back at actions vs words, that it’s true. I have to accept the evidence, even though I don’t understand it.

And that’s pretty much what Chumplady means by “trust that they suck.”

arlo
arlo
7 years ago
Reply to  ClaireS

The fog exists whenever you try to figure out them, why they did what they did. The fog clears to the extent that you can focus on yourself, why you did what you did, where did that come from, what do you really want and need.

ClaireS
ClaireS
7 years ago
Reply to  arlo

No. The fog rolls in precisely when I DO focus on myself. I’m not trying to make sense out of him or his behavior. I know he sucks. I can’t make sense out of how he got away with it.

I should have been more clear. I can’t “just know” and REST ON “he sucks.” Either I and/or others should have seen it because all sociopaths have disturbed emotional affect, or I have on my hands what, despite years of education and training and experience geared toward fighting people who suck, I have never, ever seen: psychologically, a stone cold killer whom NO ONE suspects. He has bamboozled five therapists, two for years. (Did you all catch that? Cluster Bs don’t see therapists for years. This one does.)

Ten years ago, once, I said to a friend who is a forensic psychiatrist, “his emotional affect seems off to me, but I can’t explain how.” We’d both known him at that point for 15 years. She thought about it for a few minutes. “No,” she remarked, “I think he just gets shy sometimes.”

On D-day, at least in front of me, the facade cracked. Now he looks like a Sociopath or a Malignant Covert Narcissist, I don’t care which because both suck.

And you know the disbelief in unicorns that comes from experience? I disbelieve in undetectable stone cold killers. From experience. But it would appear that I have found a once in a lifetimer. Color me disoriented, surrounded by fog.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  ClaireS

Smart, well-practiced people who want to deceive you, will succeed.

I lived for 24 years with a sociopath without full detection (though I did know he was a narcissist). And I have an advanced degree in psychology. Don’t beat yourself up.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Linda2

He won’t admit to it, because he doesn’t want to be bothered discussing the cheating. Because if he does admit to it, then you’ll ask him why he did it, why he didn’t care, why he did this, why he did that, why this, why that. And frankly, he doesn’t care about you, to sit down and talk about why he cheated. He just wants out and doesn’t want to talk about the cheating, because he doesn’t care about you. He knows what he’s done, just doesn’t want to go over his offense. Just like a criminal will not admit to his crime, same with cheaters. Do you think a sociopathic murderer wants to go over why he killed the person, and discuss how he hurt his victim, how he didn’t think of the consequences. No, he doesn’t give a shit. He did it and that’s it.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

Bottom line, he doesn’t want his offense to be rubbed in his own face. Just like a dog who pooped on the carpet doesn’t want his own pooped to be rubbed on his nose. He can’t be bothered talking about his offense.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Linda2

Power. Liars come in two forms–instrumental liars lie to get out of trouble (certainly some of that here); pathological liars lie because they have a piece of information you want and they won’t give it to you. That can be true, even when they KNOW THAT YOU KNOW. To accede to the truth would give you power over them, and that is intolerable.

Ethel Craig
Ethel Craig
4 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Spot ON!!!

Hopium recovery
Hopium recovery
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Yes, this! It is about power and image control. Durtbag, as he and his mother were finally leaving my home after a year of him living with slut puppet and denying it, actually told my mother he hadn’t been with anyone else (insisting that he talk to her without me) but it was all about his sobriety. eberyone knows he has been with slut puppet for the past year, including his crazy mom.
Then he came in to talk to me and told me basically the same thing and that he is not living with slut puppet in some room in a friend of her mom’s house. I speak to our mutual friends and they tell me the truth. The creepiest thing was while he was sobbing to me that he wanted to live in our house with me forever, in the midst of it, he suddenly said, in a normal calm voice “you need to switch those two tables around” and then turned back to the sobbing. It was eerie.

As for Felix, it is great that you want to change. I think Durtbag has moments when he wants to change too. But that instant gratification and the power/ego trip is irresistible to him. A man put on his FB page this week (I am no contact, a mutual friend sent Me a screen shot) “thanks again for sexting my fiancé. I hope her tits get you off.” Good to see he can’t stop his cheating ways even with his love, his muse, his joy. Believe me Felix, you will be a happier man if you are somehow able to overcome that hell. He is miserable even when he is “happy,”.

Dragonlady
Dragonlady
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

When I’ve asked Douchebag why he lies. Even when he knows I know the truth (and it seems to be particularly when I know the truth or he has an inkling that I know “something) he responded saying “it was easier”!! Easier for who. He admitted that he has been lying consistently since he was about 10 years old mostly stuff from a disengaged Mother. They are psychotic. Seriously mentally disordered. Even before I found CL. I could see how abnormal all the lying was. Once I realised I was being lied to!!

Because like all Very Good liars. Every Lie has a grain of truth or even half of the truth. Just the other parts are lies whether by omission or not. They get so used to lying that it becomes second nature. One of the things that used to rankle him was my inability to tolerate any distortion of the truth and I would correct him when he let “poetic license” get the better of him. My bad that I am genetically programmed to be honest!!! That gene obviously didn’t get uploaded to him. And add to that an ability to live in a delusional fantastical mental state. And no he didn’t use drugs ever, but man some of the drivel that has spewed out of his perspective on the world (in particular “our” families world) was mind boggling. Yup they should have these douchebags tagged and labled at birth. Then we wouldn’t have to worry about intertwining our lives with theirs if we didn’t want to.

Linda2
Linda2
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Yes! I think you hit the nail on the head. He does enjoy his power in this case. He is simply a liar. I keep hoping he will speak the truth but he never does.

Carrie Reimer
Carrie Reimer
7 years ago
Reply to  Linda2

Linda2, you are hooked on wanting to hear it from his lips but if he is a narcissist, which I highly suspect he is, you will never get an honest apology. You think that getting him to admit the truth will be the answer to your healing. My ex apologized, tears and all, admitted to everything he ever did, told me it was all his fault, begged me to give him one last 2nd chance. He even looked sheepish when he said “one last 2nd chance” because he knew he had blown all the other 2nd chances I had given him. As he was promising me total honesty, telling me I was all the woman he would ever need and how much he loved me, he had three other women on the hook. (He was a trucker with a woman in 3 different towns and one in another country)
He ended it 2 years later and I was devastated worse than ever. Then a year after we split he showed up and gave me a tearful apology again, only this time I stayed strong and didn’t buy into it.
My point is, even if he did give you the apology you think you need, you would never know if he really meant it and what good does it do once you are split? IF he was genuine and gave a heartfelt apology you would want him back, be thinking he has changed and become the honest man you always wanted and the new woman is getting the “good” him, so you would have something new to torture yourself with. He hurt you, you are going to take time to heal, he can not, will not nor wants to fix you besides; only you and time can fix your pain.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Linda2

Linda

You know the truth. He lies and cheats because he is a coward. It’s about image control.

SureChumpedAlot
SureChumpedAlot
7 years ago
Reply to  Linda2

“What drives a man to lie even when the truth is known?” –

The answer is……a real man wouldn’t but a child would.

Linda2 what you have is just another dime-a-dozen disordered lying cheater. Anything that comes out of that hole in his face sure as heck will not be the truth.

Dont obsess with wanting to hear his depiction of the truth from his lips. The only things that will come from his lips is (fill-in-the-blank).

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Rebecca

Was there a ever a relationship? No. That require two.

Robert
Robert
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

There are simply men and women who are wired for monogamy or non-monogamy ( “monogamish”). The problems start when everyone jumps off a cliff together thinking the differences will solve themselves in marriage despite loss of work or a woman getting fat. It doesn’t. True love cures all of that , so chances are you were never really in love to begin with so don’t sweat the details – you are better off not being with this woman than you are beginning to know yourself.

KarenE
KarenE
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert

‘True love cures all that’?? Somebody is living in fantasy land!

Sweetz
Sweetz
7 years ago
Reply to  Robert

Or a woman losing her job or when her husband gets fat?

UXworld
UXworld
7 years ago

This. This. A million times … THIS!!!!

CL, you sure don’t make it easy on those of us who need to be Gray Rock or No Contact — from top to bottom, this is what I would say to KK if I had a modicum of confidence that any of it would penetrate that stupid face of hers.

But on behalf of CN, we get that it’s not for us to use to make our fuckwits understand the damage they’ve done or the depths of their fuckedupedness; it’s for us to come to a better self-awareness and level of healing.

A great way to start the week.

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

Like you, and probably most of us here, I considered for a nanosecond sending this link to STBX. It is beautifully well explained. But. I know that my cheater would find one sentence fragment that didn’t apply to him (such as actually wanting the relationship back, which he does not) out of the entire post and then conclude that while “Felix” might indeed be an asshole, he certainly is not. Even Felix will probably do the same and he at least has showed some interest in acknowledging bad behavior. This was so fantastic and the fact that it STILL would not educate a narc is a statement all by itself.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

OR…the cheater would find a sentence fragment to justify their behavior (ask me how I know). Then cheater will keep repeating their justification (“you sucked at xx”) until THEY fully believe they were justified, and other people will start to acknowledge that, yes, the cheater was justified in fucking around because their spouse sucked at xx [insert minor flaw].

Some researchers found that the best way to implant a false memory of an event that never happened was to repeat it to a child or adult multiple times. Same with cheaters, if they repeat their justification for why they cheated, they start to believe it and they convince others.

Sad Shelby
Sad Shelby
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

100% believe this one. The lies he told himself were “She stopped loving me because she didn’t initiate sex.” And “The marriage was already over because she didn’t love me anymore.” He CLUNG to that shit for SO LONG. Now he’s seen HOW DEVASTATED I am and he can’t understand how he could have done this to someone that loves him so much. Uh because you never asked me? Or told me? Or thought outside your own perspective?!

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

The Limited also repeated statements as part of his con. He repeatedly stated, “I am just a simple guy.” The other one was, “I get along with EVERYONE else.”

He said this to our children all their lives. He made it into a sing-song type of thing and they would say, “he’s just a simple pop.”

Truth was he was anything but simple. He was toxic, deviant, and never worked on himself. He preferred leading a double life.

Done4Good
Done4Good
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

We can file that under “stupid shit cheaters say” along with this gem:

“Look, we’ve been married for over 10 years and in that time there’s only been TWO other OW. There could have been a lot more than that.”

I so wish I had had a decent comeback to that head shaker but unfortunately I was so dumb struck that anyone would have the balls to say something so insanely stupid I could only stand there with my mouth agape.

Bloo
Bloo
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

“You want me to be grateful that you weren’t out screwing *more* than two women?!”

Raving
Raving
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

Wow, what a sweet guy to limit it to only two over ten years when he clearly is so awesome he could have cheated with many more potential OWs had they not rejected his advances…

Hindsight comeback:

“Bullcrap, if you could have, you would have. You can’t count all the times you got rejected as ‘could have'”.

Other Kat
Other Kat
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

I’ve posted this here before, but my X once whined to me about how hard it was for him knowing that I’m the only person he’s ever met who doesn’t like him.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Other Kat

And just with that comment to you, I already dislike him. Geez.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Other Kat

OtherKat- The answer to your X is: “Well, clearly it’s all in your head and you’re delusional. There are tons of people who dislike you.”

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
7 years ago
Reply to  Other Kat

Other Kat-somehow I find that VERY hard to believe! Plus, like Tempest I’m pretty sure if I ever met him I wouldn’t like him either.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Other Kat

Oh OtherKat it such Cheater speak. He had NO friends and never will. He HAD customers that he bragged to about me. The person I lived with was a total illusionist.

One whore and a MOW consume his new life. Dumb Asses have to toot their own horns literally.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Other Kat

I don’t like him either ; ).

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

(I know, I know, I haven’t met him. But I’m 100% certain I wouldn’t like him if I did.)

lldodd60
lldodd60
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Amen sister

BetterDays
BetterDays
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

That explains a whole lot.

AlmostMeh
AlmostMeh
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

Me, too, Dixie Chump! My first reaction was to send it to xHubbyCheater, but then my NoContact gut kicked and said, Why? What good would it do?

“This was so fantastic and the fact that it STILL would not educate a narc is a statement all by itself.”

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

That was my first thought too. Narkles the Clown would find something in there that doesn’t pertain to him such as “I was never on Craig’s List” or “I don’t even go to farmer’s markets” and from there would completely blow off this wonderfully crafter column which explains things in probably one of the simplest ways possible as not applying to him. To him this is completely different than what he did. No, it’s exactly the same.

Savannah
Savannah
7 years ago
Reply to  AllOutofKibble

This. Mine too. He would act all puzzled and bewildered and hurt and say “but I didn’t blow up a farmers market” then anger would follow. Even his own lawyer described him as “a bit simple” lol. Trouble is he is as sneaky as a shit house rat.

UXworld
UXworld
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

“I know that my cheater would find one sentence fragment that didn’t apply to him…”

Yes. Exactly. During our feeble attempt at wreckonciliation, the therapist called her out twice for doing this. later at home, she just cried and cried and said, “See?! I KNEW is was going to be nothing but a ‘dump on [KK]’ session!”

NCStevie
NCStevie
7 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

X-hole basically did/said the same thing about therapy …. “I felt attacked” “you talked about everything I did WRONG but nothing I did right”. Boo hoo poor me.

They have zero capacity for self reflection when it comes to their flaws. It’s that ever present reality glitch.

Good riddance!

Done4Good
Done4Good
7 years ago
Reply to  NCStevie

Our MC therapist told us to just act in favor of the marriage and not worry about what the other person was thinking or feeling. So I kept trying to be extra nice, hug him, etc. Each time I tried to show him any kind of affection he would pull away and/or tell me he just “wasn’t there yet.” Eventually after so much rejection I stopped trying to hug him to give him time to “get there.” This was eventually used against me when he told me that I didn’t try hard enough to get him to love me again.

It’s always about them isn’t it? Never a thought about how I felt by all of his rejection.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

The only way to win is not to play. Life with the disordered is always lose-lose.

Example: My X refused to do much parenting, so when I picked up 90% of the parenting, I was accused of “doing too much for other people.” Our children? #$@!!

Done4Good
Done4Good
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Later he tried therapy on his own to try to sort out his own issues. He quit after the second session. I didn’t say anything because I was tired of arguing with him at that point. Later on he told me he quit going because I didn’t show enough interest in how his therapy was going. So here’s the running total:

Quit therapy – my fault
Cheating with hoes – my fault
Lack of self esteem – my fault
Dead marriage – my fault

No accountability on his end whatsoever. Also, I must have a lot of power I’m not aware of. I wonder if I can stop time and control the weather too.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Yes, and had you let him help with anything, he would have found something else to criticize. Such as how dare you leave such microscopic dust on the TV or some other bullshit non-existent reason.

EyesOpenNow
EyesOpenNow
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Same here too!! I was told I didn’t take care of the household to his satisfaction, and then after months of working hard on the house, he said “I didn’t mean you had to do everything! Now you won’t let me help with anything.” WTF?? Can’t win no matter what I do.

Stayin Strong
Stayin Strong
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Same situation I was in. Thought by sitting on the couch, drinking beer and watching tv (not with the kids mind you) that he was Father of the Year. He actually said (out loud) in marriage counseling that we had a great relationship until we had kids. Even the therapist mouth fell open. Who the fuck says that? Guess it is better with schmoopie because he is her only baby now. He gets all of the attention his little heart desires. God, why didn’t I divorce sooner……….?

tflan386
tflan386
7 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

UXworld : +1 – heard those exact words in the exact situation. Ex said that the therapist was “character assassinating him”. Our therapy sessions ended shortly thereafter, after the therapist told my enraged ex, that she had “nothing to work with”.

UXworld
UXworld
7 years ago
Reply to  tflan386

tflan386: Our therapist agreed to see me for a time after KK stopped going (without telling me, of course).

In our first 1:1 without KK, she said straight out: “I’m not even going to dignify her behavior with a diagnosis.”

CheaterBeGone
CheaterBeGone
7 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

When I was 7.5 months pregnant, and after discovering yet another affair with a hood rat introduced to him by his mother, we went to counseling. During my first personal session (that immediately followed our couples therapy), the therapist said “unfortunately, he doesn’t even have one foot in the door…they’re both out and he’s holding on to the knob”…”you need to really consider just letting him go to minimize the damage to your family”. I’d still be seeing this brilliant therapist if he hadn’t moved upstate.

Tequilatamm
Tequilatamm
7 years ago
Reply to  CheaterBeGone

Haha! I didn’t do much therapy because as with everything I’m more of a DIYer.

But after d-day I did ask the ex to go to a therapy session with me so I could try to understand things.

To her credit, she listened, told me she’d like to see me for a one on one session, and when I came back for that, her first words were, “I’m going to get straight to the point. He’s a big narcissist and you need to get out now. As soon as possible.”

She put her finger right on it. And said it with such conviction that it stuck enough to make me start pulling myself out of it, so it was well worth it.

As for the ex, he later concluded she was a bitter, man-hating female who wanted to get even with all men and was spreading lies about him, and he should sue her. Of course, in the narc’s world, someone else is always at fault.

Funny how he also taunted me into brushing past his arm to try to get my stuff out of the bedroom when he wouldn’t let me into it to move to a different bedroom, called it assault, and called the cops on me! Then, when they slapped a restraining order on him after hearing our stories, he blamed it on the fact that 2 of the 3 cops that came out were female, so of course they were going to say he was at fault! I’m only sorry I didn’t have the wherewithal to have that restraining order enforced. Even when the very nice cops tried to explain that not all abuse is physical and the emotional kind can be even worse in some cases. I wasn’t there yet. I got it later, so thanks to them also. They know this because they’ve seen it all.

Seriously. Trust that they suck.

In my opinion, Felix only wrote to CL to grab some attention because he was getting bored with his normal game and felt like manipulating something else for awhile. He should probably go crawl back into whatever hole he slithered out of.

JK
JK
7 years ago
Reply to  CheaterBeGone

I’m glad you got good advice, but that must have been tough. I’ve read a number of posts, like yours, where the chumped was going through all this while pregnant. It’s hard to imagine dealing with all that at the same time.

Shechump
Shechump
7 years ago
Reply to  CheaterBeGone

We when to M/C years and years and years ago. I had an issue because my husband didn’t want to have sex with me. Early on in our marriage. He was very clinical and professional. We went in together. Then him once alone. Then me once alone. And, at the end, he brought us together and simply said. You two are going to be divorced.
(I was horrified)
The X hated him for bringing up his ‘sexual issues’ and thought the guy was pulling the ‘manly’ thing on him.
Too bad so many years passed before I finally pulled the plug – for adultery, not lack of sex. Idiot me!

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
7 years ago
Reply to  tflan386

Saddam accused our female MC of being sexist after the second session because she didn’t believe something he said. Assholes are assholes.

Tess
Tess
7 years ago

Bravo!

Felix
Felix
7 years ago

Yeah, she knows everything, and all the stupid details.

We’d only been together a year, and we were planning on getting married.

I love her more than ive ever loved, and shes provably moving away, and i guess its best, but oh my goodness, it’s the saddest worst feeling ive ever felt.

Thank you for your reply, and thank you for your honesty.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Felix, love is not something you “feel.” It’s what you do. How you treat the other person. If you love someone, you will move heaven and earth not to hurt that person. You would treat that person as precious and hold that person’s safety, health, and future as something to guard and protect. You would not betray that person’s trust or create a relationship in which the balance is totally skewed in your direction because you know the truth about the situation and your partner does not.

Exposing your partner to a dangerous STD is one example of not “loving” a partner in this way. Lying to your partner’s face, accepting her fidelity to you while denying yours to her, breaking her trust–none of that is about love as an action.

Felix, it sounds like you have some issues from your childhood that you haven’t worked out. Many of us here picked cheaters as partners because we hadn’t worked out issues in our own lives. I was a reckless, heedless person in my 20s who created lots of chaos in my life and the lives of others, because I hadn’t done the work on myself. And I got chumped in my 60s because I still hadn’t learned how to live with myself.

If you are serious, don’t worry about a partner. If you learn how to love yourself (instead of indulge yourself), and you learn to live a satisfying life without a partner, then you will be ready to try again.

felix
felix
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

thank you. im going to be rereadinng your comments for a long time.

felix
felix
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Thank you.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Felix,

It does sound like the relationship with this particular gf is over. That’s part of accepting the consequences for cheating–i.e. letting her go.

The good news is that you can choose to act differently in the future. My wife cheated on her fiancee years before we met. The thing that kept me dating her while knowing this was the fact that she made no excuses for the act, did not blame her partner in the least for her action, and made it clear such an act was completely unacceptable. Plus, she was transparent enough to tell me about this up front. My point in sharing that is to say people can change and do better in the future. But you have to own your actions and learn to choose better in the future.

Best wishes on your journey!
-DM

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago

And we are all assuming he should let her go. She dumped you Felix, didn’t she? And I also wonder if she was conned while you were exiting you from you last relationship.

So you had unprotected sex, all serial cheaters are the same.

felix
felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

she did.. we are in the process of breaking up.

i did not lie about the past- i thought i was done. Looking back, i didn’t do all the work i needed to do, or my hope and want for a mutually monogamous relationship outpaced what i am actually capable of.

i want family so fucking bad, a healthy family, and i don’t deserve it. She does. she has been nothing but kind to me, and she is in terrible pain.

ANC
ANC
7 years ago
Reply to  felix

Felix- “I want” ” I want”. Please put yourself in therapy now. If you want to change, you need to address your complete lack of empathy for other people. What *I* want is for selfish people to really think about the consequences of their actions. You may want a family, but is it because you truely found someone to be vulnerable with, supportive and a real partner OR it is image management? You know, one way to appear normal. Finding a target to satisfy your want, like your gf still leaves you with a vacuous hole in your soul that you may seek to fill by outside validation(sex sex sex sex with someone NOT your gf or wife) INSTEAD of seeking to fill that hole by loving yourself first-validate from within.

Tessie
Tessie
7 years ago
Reply to  ANC

Felix, I find your statement “She is in terrible pain.” rather telling. The key to growth is taking complete responsibility for our actions. Every single one. We claim our misdeeds, and the damage they caused. We make amends for our selfish actions if possible, including leaving the injured party alone if that is what they want.

She is in terrible pain because she invested in you and you betrayed her on multiple levels. You caused that pain, she didn’t just arrive in that state for whatever reason. You made decisions based solely on your wants that severely damaged her. The source of her pain is you.

You want to change? Start by taking responsibility for the damage that you caused. Own up to it. Lies are destructive and should not be told, especially to yourself….or anyone else for that matter. It should have read….. I caused her terrible pain. That is owning up to your actions. I challenge you to think about the difference in those statements.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Tessie

Thank you

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  felix

In the process? Hmm…,is it really Reconcilliation your scheming for? If you truly want a good life you need to be by yourself. It will be years. Hedging?

felix
felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

of course i want reconciliation. it is greedy and unloving of me.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Words and actions Felix. False sincerity will never lead to a good life.

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Felix:
You have no idea how difficult it is going to be to change and develop impulse control. Once the grief of this relationship wears off, your motivation for changing will wear off, too. I married a serial cheater who seemed to exhibit insight into his abhorrent behavior in a previous marriage, AND who claimed that the problems he had with his former wife were not present in our relationship.

Ergo, I thought he wouldn’t cheat in our marriage. Did he? Yes, rampant cheating. Because 2 things best predict cheating: entitlement and poor impulse control (which you’ve already shown by having one affair), both of which have been well-honed by the time you get to adulthood.

Don’t underestimate how difficult you will find it to avoid temptation in the future. In fact, do you love the dopamine rush from many “new” things? It will be a constant urge to fuck around because of the high of deception.

TigerLily
TigerLily
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I’ll add to what Tempest says and also add a need for external validation and “I deserve” thinking fueled by self-pity must be addressed. I call it Selfish-Oppressive-Bastard (SOB) syndrome for a reason. The problem with SA is that it simply replaces looking to one external source of validation and locus of control with another. You must learn to validate from within, you must learn that you are in control of your choices, your decisions. You need to learn that you don’t do what is right because some outside force (parents, gf, spouse, SA group) keeps you in check, you do what is right because it is the right thing to do. You need to rebuild yourself from the ground up.

kiwichump
kiwichump
7 years ago
Reply to  TigerLily

Love the Selfish Oppressed Bastard syndrome! The traitor has chronic SOB syndrome. But for the past 18 months he went through an acute SOB episode. MC certainly was not the appropriate therapy.

SOB syndrome could have cost Felix’s partner the chance of having her own children. Felix, I don’t like to attack someone who says he feels suicidal, but saying you feel suicidal sounds like more self-pity. I certainly hope you haven’t said that to your partner, that would be nasty emotional manipulation on top of what you’ve already done.
You should be thinking about how to compensate your partner for what you put her through. I am talking about serious voluntary financial compensation as a way of making amends. You can’t fix the relationship, you can pay some reparation. She can put it towards a fighting fund in case she really has trouble having a child later on. The payment might, just might, help you build some character.
You didn’t confess, you were cornered.

NCNC
NCNC
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Well, you can move forward in one of two ways: the “what can I say? I’m an asshole” way or actually put in the hard work to change. If you choose the latter, you might be ready the next time you fall in love and be able to do that love justice. First, though, you’ll need to fix that mindset that is even now making you dwell on your “saddest worst feeling” instead of the damage you caused to your loved one. Even though many of us might be skeptical, I also sincerely wish you good luck.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  NCNC

Thank you. This really touched me.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Felix, did you confess or did she catch you cheating? I hope you really do work on your issues. And as above, sex addiction is bullshit. It’s not an addiction.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Not sure if this teply is going to the right person but soneone asked if i confessed or if she caught me.

Its really fucked up, but i was forced to confess because the person who i had cheated with found out she had chlamydia.

After teating, neither me or my now ex had it.

Though both ex and i are crying huge amounts of every day fir the last two monthes now, i am glad i was caught, and glad she has a chance at getting a good guy.

CheaterBeGone
CheaterBeGone
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

That’s unfortunate Felix. I had the pleasure of finding out I contacted genital herpes from my new husband when I was 38 weeks pregnant with our first child and had a small lesion develop. Doctor tested it, and it was done. 29 years of being clean, just to have the person you trust most in the world give herpes. Unfucking-believable.

I will forever have to live with this while he got remarried to the most recent skank. It’s not him I’m upset about, it’s the stigma of having to explain herpes to any future potential partner.

Be thankful it was only chlamydia.

CheaterBeGone
CheaterBeGone
7 years ago
Reply to  CheaterBeGone

Thank you all for your responses. It is a very difficult thing to deal with even though I rarely have breakouts (must be bc I don’t have that stress of him in my life anymore ?)
I didn’t know about the potential state law though, Kellia. Thanks for the insight.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  CheaterBeGone

In certain states it’s a criminal act, if you knew you had an STD and slept with a person, yet didn’t tell them. The victim can sue the culprit for assault and battery.

ANC
ANC
7 years ago
Reply to  CheaterBeGone

I’m right there with you, CheaterBGone. It takes a supremely selfish asshole to expose their partner to disease…..and their unborn or infant children. Fuckers.

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago
Reply to  CheaterBeGone

CheaterBeGone – I’m so sorry he did that to you. You were scrupulous in your sexual encounters then think you don’t have to worry about that any longer because you’re “monogamous” and then that happens. Too bad you can’t sue them for giving you a life-long disease.

Linden
Linden
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Oh, I see. Yes, nothing says you love someone like potentially exposing her to a disease that in women most of the time causes no symptoms but which can cause long-term effects, including infecting any children she might have.

Mehphista
Mehphista
7 years ago
Reply to  Linden

You dodged a bullet, Felix. My cheater gave me clamydia. Which cost me my fertility at age 30.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Linden

Yeah. Knowing this is really disgusting. I cant sleep anymore and i think about suicide a lot more than i ever did.

I wont do that though- its just another selfish act.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  NCNC

Thank you. Im sorry that happened to you .

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Sorry about thess double posts.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  NCNC

Thank you

The Chump struggle is real
The Chump struggle is real
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Felix, thank you for the post. I’m happy to hear that she’s moving away and starting a new life, as well as yourself. The road to change begins after therapy and in your next relationship. This one is over and there’s just no fixing the mess you made. There is no going back once certain lines are crossed, all you can do now is remember this lesson for future relationships. Or maybe you should just stick with casual flings for the rest of your life? Men who are incapable of being faithful should just accept this fact and never marry or be in committed relationships, in my opinion. Sounds like monogamy is just not for you, and that’s okay. There’s plenty of people out there who are fine with one night stands, and they just might be your tribe. Doc and the Dolorian are just things of cinema, time machines don’t exist so you may just want to accept the fact the fact that the strip clubs and Hooters lifestyle is where you belong indefinitely. At least you wouldn’t be tempted to hurt people who love you.

HopeAndGloria
HopeAndGloria
7 years ago

Just to follow on from one of Chump Struggle’s points —

Felix if you decide to take a pass on monogamy and fill your time with bar hookups and Craigslist quickies, at least you’ll be honest with yourself and others. When you roll around with dogs, you’ll get fleas. Be honest, stay honest, and damn well learn to put up with those fleas.

But when you’re tired of picking nits out of your crevices every Sunday night, do not be tempted to treat yourself an ‘upgrade’ to a better, healthier, flea-less sort of woman you don’t deserve by lying to her about being a monogamy-seeker and playing the part just so you get to steal a free sample of the wild thang she reserves for reciprocal relationships. That, in itself, is a form of cheating assclown-ery. And that, in itself, is exactly how you mucked up your ex girlfriend’s life so badly she has to move away. Behave.

Justchumped
Justchumped
7 years ago
Reply to  HopeAndGloria

“Picking nits out of your crevice” ewwwwwwww!!! I love it!!!

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Felix – what Chump Lady said about love precipitating your actions is key. It’s the key to your character and whether or not you’re cut out for monogamy. For many people, the love they FEEL for their spouse would never allow them to betray them. Even when they don’t like their spouse very much at the moment. Even when they are not having their ass kissed by their spouse. Those people are great at monogamy.

Other people need constant flattery, attention, newness, and when they don’t get it, they feel entitled to find it elsewhere. Love is a word to them. They tell themselves they love their spouses but that love doesn’t stop the selfishness. They are horrible at monogamy.

Figure out which kind of person you are. At the core. If you are the latter, then date around, have new every day if you want, get attention from people who don’t know you very well. But please don’t eat up days or weeks or years of someone else life with cheating. You don’t have the right to do that.

If you want to be the former, stop talking Sex Addict. A sex addict is just someone who refuses to say no to themselves. You don’t have a chemical need for strange pussy. Learn the difference between want and need. Severe alcoholics NEED alcohol in the systems or they may seize and die. No one ever died from not having sex with strangers.

Sex may be a compulsion for you, but I’ve have had very strong compulsions to shoot people, yet I’ve restrained myself. SAA is just another place to go where you can be told it’s not your fault that you’re a cheater. And it’s bullshit. If you want to stop this behavior, then stop it. You don’t need a twelve step meeting – you need to white-knuckle it and learn to have some character. It’s called being an adult.

I wish you much luck in your journey to become a decent guy. There’s no easy road. Just remember to say no to yourself.

Hellno
Hellno
7 years ago

” A sex addict is just someone who refuses to say no to themselves. You don’t have a chemical need for strange pussy. Learn the difference between want and need. Severe alcoholics NEED alcohol in the systems or they may seize and die. No one ever died from not having sex with strangers.”

You nailed it uneffingbelievable , This should be a poster on the wall of every MC/therapist , you see that excuse of sex addiction in all walks of life including women who should have more sense, I’m sure I’ve heard it trotted out by Mel Gibson’s wife, and Halle Berry with one of her exes, And I can just imagine several of the Kennedy’s, Huma Abedin, Eliot Spitzers ex wife , and Beyonce telling themselves the same thing.

ColdTurkey
ColdTurkey
7 years ago

What a great post, uneffingbelievable. I LOVE your definition of someone who is good at monogamy. And the description of my ExH, who excelled at NOT being good at monogamy? Spot on!

Beth
Beth
7 years ago

Uneff,
THIS: “If you want to be the former, stop talking Sex Addict. A sex addict is just someone who refuses to say no to themselves. You don’t have a chemical need for strange pussy. Learn the difference between want and need. Severe alcoholics NEED alcohol in the systems or they may seize and die. No one ever died from not having sex with strangers.” OMG, thank you!! I’m going to be walking around all day today laughing and snorting over “You don’t have a chemical need for strange pussy.” It took me 2 1/2 years to get there but I made it and am now divorced from my ex “sex addict”. What you wrote is absolutely true. He wasn’t an addict he just wanted a constant supply of fresh adoration because, I guess, the kids and I weren’t coming up with enough new ways to tell him how special he is and hey, if you pay a bunch of sex workers enough they can be pretty damn adoring.

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago
Reply to  Beth

Sex Addict = Excuse. Tiger Woods couldn’t admit he was just a dog because it would ruin his image (read: lose millions of dollars in endorsements). So he goes to a Sex Addiction clinic and mails in his participation. So glad to see his game is in the toilet while Elin is living large.

Beth
Beth
7 years ago

I agree. I’m embarrassed to admit it now, but part of my chumpiness was latching onto the term “Sex Addict” as an explanation for why my husband would cheat on me with a stripper (or hooker, not really sure which she was or if she was both) and have such a sick fascination with porn. You know. “Oh he’s not really a lying, cheating, stealing rat bastard, he’s got a PROBLEM. We can FIX him and life will return to ‘normal'”. Eventually “a” stripper became 10-12 strippers and serial cheating over many years. Fixing him became fixing me because I couldn’t let go of the past and “normal” meant back to gas lighting and blame shifting. Same ol’ song and dance that so many cheaters employ. Thank goodness for CN as well as The Sisterhood of Support for showing me that selfishness isn’t a disease or an addiction, it’s a character flaw.

moving on
moving on
7 years ago
Reply to  Beth

Beth, wow. That sounds so familiar. My H wants lots of sex with others and then turned the break up around on me and my inability to go back (immediately) to how things were before he screwed the world. So, buy into my gas lighting and be a good wife or I’m out. Glad I reminded him where the door was if he expected a quick fix. Sorry, manipulator. Shame on me for not helping the heart you shattered quick enough. There are better men out there!

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  moving on

Movin on–they are inconvenienced by our grief and pain. Here is a verbatim quote from Hannibal Lecher 2 months after D-day, when I had filed for divorce after giving him 8 weeks to make amends, but only got naugahyde remorse. Apparently I was supposed to be all better after 2 months:

Hannibal: “Yeah, right. You loved me so much that you can’t forgive me for a stupid short affair so long ago I can’t remember it. Let’s face it: you can never just let things go. You obsess and that gets you more and more upset, and finally you even got to me and made me think that you can never be happy with me. You don’t want to be. So be it.”

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
7 years ago
Reply to  Beth

Re: “sex addiction”—

Before I knew better, I mentioned to POP that perhaps he had a sex addiction. He denied that the did.

That is one of the 4 times that I am aware of that he was telling the truth.

The other three were when he said he was
hungry
horny or
needed to pee.

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

Ha! So funny!

Beth
Beth
7 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

Cackling with glee here. Good one! 😀

Dianne
Dianne
7 years ago
Reply to  Beth

Love the plug for Sisterhood of Support.com!! Another lifesaver like CL. Lots of support for CL there.

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago

Also, too bad his children will one day learn what an epic douche bag their father is. What a shame.

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago

How many Narcissists does it take to change a lightbulb?? One. He holds the bulb and lets the world revolve around him.

lovedandlost
lovedandlost
7 years ago

OMG funny but so true!

newdaydawning
newdaydawning
7 years ago

LOVE the lightbulb comment. That is it in a nutshell

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago

So true!!

The Chump struggle is real
The Chump struggle is real
7 years ago

Uneff, after reading your posts, I believe I just became your groupie. I can’t even.

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago

Chump Struggle – Too bad I’m not a narcissist – I’m sure narcissists would really dig having a groupie!! Thanks for the giggle!!

Golfgrrl
Golfgrrl
7 years ago

^^^^^^^This. ^^^^^^^^

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
7 years ago
Reply to  Golfgrrl

Cheaters change partners like maintenance people change light bulbs—

that’s a lot of screwing 😉

MehFairLady
MehFairLady
7 years ago

“You firebombed the farmer’s market. And now you’re back.” Spectacular analogy.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago

Felix

“I can overcome this shitty way of life.”

After living with a serial cheater for 41 years my guess is that your need to change indicates you finally have to face the consequences of you actions.

Let’s first take away the justification by labeling it as sex addiction. It doesn’t exist. Face the facts Felix. Your actions were not impulsive. Rather, you planned and executed your double life with ease. You enjoyed the power and control over your partner.

I’m not sure of your age. I’m guessing you are an older man given your name.
I will tell you that once I divorced the serial cheater he lost his ability to maintain his image. He was exposed.

Old narc serial cheaters find the con of their youthful selves have slim pickings as they age. The Limited is holed up with a mentally ill crack whore. The consequences he faces now are severe. Gone is the hard working loyal wife who repeatedly forgave with uncinditional love; gone is the respect and adoration of his adult children and beautiful granddaughter; and gone is the ability to receive supply. It sucks right?

When I look back on my life I know I lived with integrity and did what mattered despite tollersting abuse. I have a future filled with new and well earned hope and love being free from the selfish serial cheater.

Do you have the stamina to change? Are you able to face yourself truthfully?
I have no idea as hopium for serial cheaters no longer exists for me personally. It’s a very tall order to conquer the ability to use, manipulate, lie, gaslight, and hide behind the mask.
It’s who you are.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
7 years ago

You lost me at sex addict.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Yeah, im trying to figure out if the SAA stuff is an idea thats useful or not. It doesnt matter ultimately i guess, but i take full responsibilty for what i did.

For me, so far, its been helpful in identifying patterns of behaviour, and- though it doesnt matter – trying to trace how this happened and understanding exactly what i did.

For me, personally- it is a pattern i reach towards when stressed- just as CL states- i felt entitled and priveledged and didnt think beyond myself.

I dont want to pass this on to my son, and i want to be a person who brings good to other people.

So im trying stuff out you know.

Stephanie
Stephanie
7 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

But if you like the thrill of deceit, if the power trip is exciting, if open doesn’t excite you because there’s no chump investing 100 percent in you while you game the system — i.e., the profile of a serial cheater — you have a being an asshole problem, not SA. JMHO.

And maybe THIS is that bad feeling that you’re feeling–the loss of a source of someone investing in YOU. Not that you hurt them because you loved them (I’m not sure an entitled serial cheater really knows love, nor suffers from losing someone they love, since they don’t love.) Perhaps your bad feeling comes from being alone, realizing you now have to set up another long-term relationship “base” from which to cheat. And maybe you miss the things she did for you or a few of her mannerisms or something. So maybe that’s a question for your therapist, to identify the crappy feeling that you’re feeling. Maybe it’s more like fear. Or dread or worry. I don’t really think it’s the same feeling a chump would feel if one of us hurt someone we loved. I just don’t think cheaters and chumps think or feel the same way.

KeepNarcsAway
KeepNarcsAway
7 years ago
Reply to  Stephanie

“And maybe THIS is that bad feeling that you’re feeling–the loss of a source of someone investing in YOU. Not that you hurt them because you loved them”

How keen of you, Stephanie. This is what I thought also. In fact, a narcissist ex was telling me how he cried after someone broke up with him. He admitted, “I was just feeling sorry for myself.” For himself, indeed, and not about what he did and why she dumped him.

ForgeOn!
ForgeOn!
7 years ago
Reply to  Stephanie

Steph is sooooo right! Cheater’s brains and emotions are so messed up. What Felix is feeling is still all about him!!! MeMeMeMeeeeeee……Barf

Sorta like expecting a rapist and their victim to feel the same way about the attack. Uh, NO! The rapist made a conscious decision to humiliate and destroy another human in the most vile way.

Same with cheating. Both of these acts are the most vile actions a person can do against another human. Yet, cheating is actually a worse pain, as they are purposefully destroying the person they claim they care for most!. (Ask me how I know…..)

And a rapist or cheater will NEVER feel the same kind of sorrow, pain, hurt or distress over their actions as the one they have attacked. They certainly do not ‘love’ the one they have attacked.

In my experience, a serial cheater is incapable of true love. Can they change and become a ‘former cheater’? Yes, I know some who have. ONLY after doing a total internal makeover were they then able to understand what it really means to love and care for someone. Genuine love does not exist in a serial cheater. So, for Felix to claim he loves the lady he was cheating on….Nope! Impossible.

Love the points the Nation is making today.

Forge on, all ForgeOn!!!

UnchumpingMyself
UnchumpingMyself
7 years ago
Reply to  ForgeOn!

Cheating is emotional rape. My therapist explained that very clear, it is aggression. And Felix is on kibble deprivation right now, in my opinion. Hope he’ll still be around two or three years from now, after having spent time on his own and not attached to some narcissistic supply, after having also spent a good time in a therapist office digging up all the shit inside and doing all that hard work on himself he’s now CLAIMING is willing to do and report back on his progress. Somehow, I doubt that will happen. Yup, very, very skeptical.

Peakyblinders
Peakyblinders
7 years ago
Reply to  Stephanie

Exactly right, Stephanie. Cheaters want the long-term stability and comfort of knowing “someone” is there. Once they’re done sucking all of the energy and love out of that one, it will be on to the next chump… Cheating is a way of life and a choice. There are no accidents there!

Tflan386
Tflan386
7 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Felix: I would be wary about saying you turned to cheating whenever you felt “stressed”. That statement is not going to fly with this audience, nor with your therapist.

Jim
Jim
7 years ago
Reply to  Tflan386

I was stressed a shitload during my marriage, and had opportunities, but didn’t cheat.

’cause I was married.

What a concept.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
7 years ago
Reply to  Jim

I have been living under incredible stress for the past 8 years and I don’t see it ending anytime soon. Not once have I sought out a man’s dick to relieve said ‘stress’.

Actually, TWO MENS’ DICKS are the proximate cause of this stress.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
7 years ago
Reply to  Tflan386

Ugh, no shit. When I feel stressed, I don’t go sit on strange dick. SMH . . .

Tempest
Tempest
7 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

That would complicate office politics around deadlines.

Annie Get Your Gun
Annie Get Your Gun
7 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Can you imagine, “Hey Tempest, we’re pulling another late night. Besides the coffee, can you grab, um….4 dicks and 2 pussies to go….no wait, make that 4 dicks and 3 pussies. And grab some extra napkins.”

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Every time asswipe got real stressed out he went after strange needing a diversion. Well his stressing caused me stressing but i didnt go looking for new dicks. I tried to deal with the problems and make it better all asswipe did was make it worse. I am the better person, i am mighty and darn it people like me! Asswipe is stessed and miserable and i hope he stays that way til the end getting ezactly the life he so justly deserves. May his misery intensify a gazillion times!

Peakyblinders
Peakyblinders
7 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

LMAO Rumble Kitty!

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

BOOM! Rumblekitty – you are hilarious!!

unicornomore
unicornomore
7 years ago

Felix, Im glad that you decided to look at this while you are dating someone you love and didnt wait until you were married 20 years and had 4 kids. What uneffingbelievble said is on point..in our modern society, people dont HAVE to get married and there are clusters of polyamory – if you want to date and fuck around until your last day, you can and were ok if you do that…were not “forced monogamy” folks here. We’re, however, against pretending that you are faithful to get the benefits from it while fucking around behind someones back and lying about it.

Decide which life you want to live and live it…no excuses, no rationalizations, no buckling, no blaming – if you decide to be a real partner to a good woman then grow the fuck up and be true to ones word.

Let me tell you about Mr Unicornomore…he wanted to be a stand up guy and presented himself as such. Graduated from an elite Military Academy and was “an officer and a gentleman”. When the decision was made to marry, he insisted it be in a Catholic Church as that was the Faith of his Fathers.

We had children and built a life together. He, however, never really grew up…he put on a good show at work, but he reacted to problems and challenges like a child and didnt cope well. He raged and blamed and acted like an ass to me and his kids. I knew he had a “too close” relationship with a coworker but he swore he never broke the promises of our marriage covenant”

He died and I gave him a hero’s send off…flag on the casket and a 21 gun salute of a combat veteran. He was honored by all. After his death I learned that not only did he fuck that coworker but there were others, likely many others. His motto of “Semper Fidelis” (Always Faithful) turned out to be the motto to his dick, not his wife, kids, country or Faith. He was mean, blaming, selfish. lying and immature and his cheating perpetuated it all. I spent my life devoted to this man, I knew him best and I consider him a huge asshole.

You have one life. Whether you live it as an honest playboy or a faithful partner is yours to decide but dont be a lying cheating asshole. Help Major Cheaterpants to have made a difference.

unicornomore
unicornomore
7 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

to clarify…he was a combat veteran and he did die, but he died of septic shock, he was not killed in action. He got strep throat when he was with OW…I hope she gave it to him….yes that is bitchy but Im ok with that.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

+1

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

+2

ANC
ANC
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

+100

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago

Felix, you are focused on how sad this situation makes you feel. I am not sure you are able to do so, but try to imagine how SHE feels. Does trying to imagine that make you cringe? I don’t mean to sound harsh, but I am guessing that you probably cannot really do that which is why you were able to behave the way you did in the first place. A poor analogy is that I would never be able to kick a dog because I love dogs. It is not a question of my feeling guilty AFTER I kicked one … I would just never entertain doing it right from the start. Feeling bad afterwards does not indicate you love someone. Don’t confuse guilt or regret with love. And if you really do feel any love for your partner, please let her go and work on your problems without dragging her through more shit. It is the one kind thing you can do for her. Do you love her enough to at least do that?

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

Thank you.

JK
JK
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

No Dixie Chump, it’s a fine analogy. With your permission, I’m going to use the hell out of it:)

Get Out Yo Seat and Chump Around
Get Out Yo Seat and Chump Around
7 years ago

Only together a year… yet you cheated.

Planning to marry… yet you cheated.

Loved her more than anyone… yet you cheated.

You’re unfit for anything other than an open relationship, yet something tells me you would break even those rules too. Take your therapy seriously and get help for your “addiction” (ha!).

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago

Felix, from my POV, your journey is your journey and whatever work you find works for you is fine by me as long as it doesn’t harm anyone. If SAA speaks to you and gets you to a better place, then IMHO, that’s great.

I would just say two things.

First, if you only have it in you to attack one behavioral change, make it this: don’t lie (which includes omitting key details and justifying) to get anything you want. If you can’t get there with transparent honesty, be an adult and accept it. We can’t, and should not be able to, have evey damned thing we want. That’s real life.

Second, don’t let any treatment plan own you. Walk the steps if that’s what works for you, but retain your personal power. Every choice you make is yours and yours alone, and every consequence is yours and yours alone to bear. No program or sponsor saves you from that. So if you fuck up and it hurts a lot, tough shit. Take it. Be accountable, no blaming. (Which, of course, brings us back to honesty.)

Make honesty your new best friend. Don’t want monogamy? Don’t say you do. Don’t want to entirely give up compulsive masturbation to fantasy/porn that’s only exciting when you do it in secret? Don’t swear you’ll never do it again. Find yourself resenting someone who “won’t let you” act out sexually so you hide it because you feel YOLO? Huge red flag that you are fucking up big time.

You get the idea.

Honesty is your only path to redemption. That’s the truth. Total honesty, with yourself and anyone with whom you want to connect romantically and/or sexually. There is no other way.

Glad you’re looking for a new way to live in the world. Good for you and good for the world. We need more unicorns. Hope you can get there. Good luck.

Annie Get Your Gun
Annie Get Your Gun
7 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

The world would be so much better off if everyone could live my these two things.

felix
felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

thank you.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago
Reply to  felix

You’re welcome.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

🙂

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

(Also, note, I am not saying Felix does any of the things I listed as examples, they are some common examples.)

Done4Good
Done4Good
7 years ago

I’m printing this off to read anytime I start to feel bad about ME finally making the decision to move on with my life. HE moved out. HE had affairs. HE refused to move back even though I made every concession in the world to accept him back into our lives. But in the end, it’s ME that has to take charge of the dirty work and now I’m in the early stages of the divorce process.

Here at CN, I’ve been referring to my cheater as my ex. I guess technically, he’s my STBX, but I’ve been calling him my ex because that’s the mindset I need to have to finally get the ball rolling and get my life out of limbo land and start living again. For the last two years, I’ve been living as a separated, married woman raising a child pretty much alone, working and going to graduate school. STBX been living as a single man, though covertly I guess in an effort to keep up appearances. It’s time I give him what he wants. Why would a man who feels his marriage has been over for a long time feel the need to join a site like Ashley Madison? Maybe guys like Felix here can explain it because it sure is mind boggling to me. Why not just dump me and put me out of my misery?

I don’t feel the need to belittle someone who claims that they need to change things about themselves because they have had some sort of moment of clarity regarding their life choices and their impact on those around them. But those here on CN are correct. The love you feel for someone is supposed to trump any sort of “feelings” you might have for someone else. That love is supposed to be what keeps us steadfast against all sorts of adversity and temptation. Without that unwavering dedication to our partners, we just become unfettered wild beings with no direction and no future that doesn’t involve self-gratification. If that strength of character is lacking in any one of us, it won’t matter how much self-improvement or change we attempt to invoke in our selves. Though we here at CN have variations of a similar story we all seem to share one thing. The lack of evidence that those who live their lives in a manner that is completely self-serving can ever reverse that path once they’ve reached and gone beyond the mile marker of cheating and betrayal.

I wish you luck on your journey Felix. Sincerely.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

Thank you for your comment.

I cant speak for your ex, but for me- ultimately, it was-is about not thinking of anyone else .was about focus on short term escapes, not long term solutions.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

Felix

How many times were you married? You mentioned having a son. And honesty is not skimming over the tough questions asked and replying only to empathy.

It’s hard work and evading is right from the cheaters handbook.

Given that how did it end with the current victim you ‘lived’ . Did you get caught? Details. Yup.

Done4Good
Done4Good
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

For my ex, it was absolutely a way for him to avoid addressing his own issues. He has poor life-coping mechanisms and even worse, little to no empathy. I asked him several times to put himself in my place and each time he told me he couldn’t. Whether he can’t or simply won’t try to understand the pain he’s inflicted on me, his inability to deal with life will keep him forever stuck in self-pity mode, forever searching for “the one” that will save him from himself. If you’re at this stage of self-awareness, you’re far ahead of most with similar, messed-up mindsets.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

I was dating a guy who kept doing things that hurt me and each time I had to get angry and explain to him how his behavior hurt me. And then it dawned on me, that it’s not normal that I have to explain to a grown man in his 40s how his behavior is hurting me. This is basic and normal people would already know this. So I dumped his ass, and never looked back. I’m sure he’s mentally disordered. I can’t keep explaining basic behaviors to a moron, who is way past toddler years and had 40 years to get it. If he still doesn’t after 4 decades, then he never will. Good riddance sucka!

ClaireS
ClaireS
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

Kellia, good for you! And. Please come to visit MC’s office six years ago.

Fiend went to preserve his image of a good guy. Even said, sorrowfully, that he had an anger problem, was working on it, but often didn’t know what to do in the moment or afterwards, and how can you call a therapist every time?

I protested that some hurtful things are obvious, and that at the least, it ought not be I who had to explain because THAT clearly wasn’t making headway.

MC answer: “Clare, relationships are about give and take. You happen to be emotionally intelligent. He’s admitting he has blind spots. You can help. In fact, you should help. How will he know what you need or want if you don’t explain?”

Let’s pretend. Enter Kellia and her story. At which point I would have had the gumption to say what I was thinking. Namely: “Do you know the literal meaning of ad nauseam?”

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  ClaireS

ClaireS – I’m sorry the MC was an idiot and couldn’t understand your situation. Give and take my ass. You shouldn’t have to explain what is basic and normal behavior to someone. In their 30s, 40s, 50s, + they should have learned what is decent and normal behavior by now! If I have to explain to someone over and over again how they keep hurting me, it’s not because of ME, but rather because I am dealing with a colossal idiot. And it’s time to bail, because I don’t want to raise a man child. I have better things to do with my time.

lldodd60
lldodd60
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

I feel you. You described my ex. He is a bright educated man, but a total dumbass when it comes to coping with life’s issues and exactly no empathy. His answer to not wanting to hurt me is to cry and act like he is the injured party. I asked him if I did to him what he did to me would he forgive me? And he said no, but fully expected me to forgive him. I lived in limbo for 3 years before I found out for certain that the co-worker he was living with was is AP.

Felix
Felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Ive been married once.

Ive had three long term relationships.

I cheated in two of them.

My son was conceived the first time his mom and i got together. We tried to make it work as a family, but it didnt. Hes 5 now.

My father was an abusive drunk with all of the addictions, and i dont want this for my boy. I want this to stop.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Felix

And were you caught each time? Your doing better now. Being honest with yourself is important.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

You have the power to stop it for yourself. You have to want it for your self. It will be hard work and will take years.

Tania Rochelle
Tania Rochelle
7 years ago

Felix is getting a lot of attention.

wideawake
wideawake
7 years ago
Reply to  Tania Rochelle

Yes, it’s too bad that shining some light on a relevant issue (i.e. No such thing as sex addiction) goes hand in hand with a troll-like conversation giving attention to a not-very bright-or-self-aware cheater

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
7 years ago
Reply to  Tania Rochelle

It’s a Felix Kibble Buffet!

sadlady15
sadlady15
7 years ago

Yes. This.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
7 years ago
Reply to  Tania Rochelle

+100

Dixie Chump
Dixie Chump
7 years ago
Reply to  Tania Rochelle

Agreed. We can all spend 24 hours helping Felix gaze at his own navel and it will make absolutely no difference. But it is somewhat satisfying to say something to such a person without breaking NC with my own hopeless asshole.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
7 years ago
Reply to  Dixie Chump

+1

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
7 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

+2

AtPeace
AtPeace
7 years ago

“Accepting consequences is the first step to improving your character.”

Yes. This. If my ex demonstrated this in the least, I might be willing to entertain the notion that he has changed.

Let go
Let go
7 years ago

You need to grow up. You have made those women you are screwing into body parts. Vaginas and breasts. Being an adult means you connect with other people. It means you have empathy. When you cheat on your loved one, when you pay for sex, when you have a one night stand with a co-worker, when you do anything to demean your relationship you are a child. If you have no empathy you are still very much a child. It means that you have no concept of the humanity behind those body parts. It means you do not know how to connect to other people. Whether you are a sex addict or whether this is a compulsion that drives you you still need to grow up. Children did not know how to postpone pleasure but adults are supposed to know that. Not only do they know, it is what they do. Whatever pleasure you get out of cheating on someone you love you have absolutely no ability to put yourself in their place. Empathy means that you understand the pain or the joy that another person feels because you can put yourself in their place and feel what they feel. Growing up is a long process and something you need to focus on rather than trying to find a sweetheart to fix you. You have to figure out how to take those body parts you focus on and make them belong to a real human being with hopes and dreams and feelings. It doesn’t matter if it’s a prostitute or a coworker, that is a person there, someone who cries, who laughs, who has hopes. I think it is very smart for you to attend SAA but if you want to have real empathy why don’t you visit VA hospitals and talk to wounded soldiers. Look at those people who have missing parts, who can’t see anymore, who have to depend on others. If you sit with them and talk to them and care for them you will begin the long journey into adulthood. Humane Societies need volunteers. Feed the homeless. Focus on others and their needs and not your own. Until you do that you are still a child. Do NOT make promises to others until you know you can honor them.

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
7 years ago

Felix-

Assuming that Chump Lady’s title of this letter is the opening of your letter to her, then you are in fact a serial cheater. One who chose to cheat in the first year of a relationship while you were making plans to be married. That’s pretty much an “enough said” moment right there.

I don’t know you. But for the sake of argument I will assume that you are actually sorry for the pain you’ve caused your chump. Maybe you’ll actually seek therapy for those actions. I know you’re seeing a professional for your anxiety but maybe that same therapist could help you get to the core of your entitlement issues.

Sexual addiction is not even listed in the DSM because there isn’t a lot of credible evidence supporting that it truly exists. It can be however, as suggested in prior posts, used for an excuse as to why the cheating isn’t the cheater’s fault. Any discussion about changing can’t include looking for reasons to excuse your behavior.

Own what you did, try to change to be a better human, and leave the chump out of the picture. Let her go completely. Don’t try to hoover her back in with promises to change and phrases like “look I’m going to therapy for anxiety and to sexual addicts anonymous meetings.” Leaving her alone to heal would be the most caring and selfless thing you can do for her. This is a consequence of your actions and accepting that is part of every responsible adult’s life.

Good luck on your journey

One Step at a Time
One Step at a Time
7 years ago

OMG, Chump Lady!! 2+ years of reading and you continue to amaze me with your words!!

“Perhaps you do feel bad that you hurt your partner with your infidelities. But guilt isn’t enough — the fear of hurting someone you love should precipitate your actions.”

^^^^^ This is exactly what made me finally realize that I had to divorce xhole. He did feel “slightly” bad about the affair, but the thought of hurting me wasn’t enough to stop him from acting in the first place. That was enough for me!!

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago

+ 2

Mary
Mary
7 years ago

+1

Peakyblinders
Peakyblinders
7 years ago

Felix, I want to thank you for coming here with all of us to discuss what happened to your relationship.
I agree with Dixie Chump… If you love a dog, you would never even dream of kicking that dog. You need to get to that point in your way of thinking if you want a monogamous “real” relationship beyond surface.
The pain that people feel when they are betrayed and deceived is CRUSHING. She gave you her heart, you ripped it out, stomped on it, spit on it and then handed it back to her. You are trying to fix something that you damaged and no matter what, the love she felt for you will never be the same. She will never trust the person she now knows you really are. I hope that you can learn from this experience and really work to be a better man for the next person you decide that you want to be monogamous with.
We understand that we are all human and may find someone else physically appealing. The question is…do you love the person you are with enough to give that desire and energy to her? Can you be unselfish and think about someone else besides yourself? If she’s not perfect, or gets on your nerves, do you love her enough to be faithful and work on your relationship and future? These are some questions you need to ask yourself before you ask someone to be your girlfriend. If you are serious about asking someone to marry you, make sure it’s for the right reasons and not because you think you have to. It’s better to be single and “play around” rather than drag someone through “the shit” with you. That’s no way to show someone you care. I truly wish you the best of luck on your journey to being a better person for yourself and your son.

BetrayedNoMore
BetrayedNoMore
7 years ago
Reply to  Peakyblinders

Here’s some advice from someone going through “wreckonciliation:” Don’t bother. Seriously. Don’t bother with the platitudes, the remorse, the begging, the reticence, the empty threats of suicide, blah, blah, blah…

It’s been over two years since my last (fourth) D-day. All the pictures and thousands of sexts my cheater wife sent her fuckbuddies are forever imprinted in my head. Every lie and blameshift she said during four months of trickle-truth remain as well. Those bells cannot be unrung.

Two years later and whenever she gets angry, sad, suicidal-ish, I can’t bring myself to give a flying fuck about whatever upsets her. I view it all through the lens of her cheating and lying. I refuse to emotionally invest myself into someone who is emotionally bankrupt herself.

Can you live with a person who will forever-on remind you that you’re a cheating piece-of-shit? How about five years from now? Ten? How about on your deathbed and she/he leans over and whispers lovingly into your ear, “I hope you rot in hell you fucking piece-of-shit asshole.”

My advice is that you leave, quickly settle the divorce with whatever she/he wants, and just get on with your life without him/her. Go invest your time in the reddit/cheater or fakebook/fuckbuddy clubs instead. Their motto is, “You only have one life on this Earth, you deserve to be happy.” Buy some chrome nipple clamps and let your freak-flag fly. You’ll be much happier without the cognitive dissonance conflicts.

ClaireS
ClaireS
7 years ago
Reply to  BetrayedNoMore

BetrayedNoMore: Brilliant post. Beautifully written, incisive, and gut-wrenching.

Forgive me if you’ve already answered this question, and ignore me if it’s too intrusive: Did you write “suicidal-ISH” because you don’t have enough to commit her involuntarily?

BetrayedNoMore
BetrayedNoMore
7 years ago
Reply to  ClaireS

On days when I point out her narc flag is flying high she starts flipping the channels between rage and pity; “If I’m such a bad person then maybe I should just end it so you can be happy without me on this Earth!

It’s just a ploy to pull on my sympathy and guilt me so I’ll back down. My response is no response, just a blank stare or a flat “Uh huh.” Luckily, these days are farther and fewer between. You have my apologies if I seem glib about suicide. Luckily she is a perfectly functioning adult.

CAGal
CAGal
7 years ago
Reply to  BetrayedNoMore

I like this post. I was actually saying last night the only reason that I car that Ex doesn’t kill himself is that his dad is nice and no one should have to go through the pain of putting a child in the ground.

After his dad dies… I honestly think that the world would be a better place if Ex was not in it. He’s horrible. He cheats, he lies, he thinks nothing of abusing people to get what he wants, he has a pathological lack of empathy, he’s mean spirited and entitled. He doesn’t give anything to the world. He’s just out there being sucky all the while proclaiming he’s a good guy. He’s a huge asshole who doesn’t know that he is a huge asshole. I hope he rots in hell… sooner rather than later.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
7 years ago

Felix, you lost me at “overcome this super shitty way of life.” You build your “way of life.” It’s not something you “overcome.” The word “overcome” refers to circumstances not of our own doing that are obstacles to our success or happiness. You overcome childhood abuse or a terrible disease or poverty or prejudice. That phrase, right there, tells me you still think that cheating is something that “just happens.” And therefore that you are still conning yourself and trying to con CL. Sadly, your genuine imitation Naugahyde remorse might work with the partner you betrayed, but it won’t fly here. And if your partner is reading here, I hope he or she makes you live on your own until you demonstrate a long track record of integrity, fidelity, empathy, reciprocity, and respect for others.

Doingme
Doingme
7 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

My feeling is that in order to work on himself he cannot be in a Relationship with anyone.

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago
Reply to  Doingme

Precisely.

BetterDays
BetterDays
7 years ago

Here’s what I’d say to Cheese Fries (formerly known as The Entitled One):

Stop dating. Stop fucking. Stop the porn use and online sex (if any).

Embrace celibacy and embrace being alone.

Deal with the feelings that arise when you’re alone, when you’re not getting validation from women, when you’re not getting highs from sex games.

Keep going to therapy. In the meantime, as you’re dealing with your issues, work on being present for your son and being a good parent. After awhile without your drug of choice, you’ll get clarity on whether monogamy is for you and you’ll learn better coping strategies for stress/boredom/anger/whatever is driving your behavior.

Best of luck.

Peakyblinders
Peakyblinders
7 years ago
Reply to  BetterDays

Very good advice, Better Days….

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
7 years ago

Mr. Sparkles wouldn’t get past the first paragraph before something – like a Craigslist ad for T4M – would overtake his attention. No unicorn there.

And, thank you CL – this is a great daily reminder as to why Cheaters don’t change. Character transplants taking longer than they have the attention span for in life.

KeepNarcsAway
KeepNarcsAway
7 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

“I just don’t think that chumps should wait around for those changes. The relationship is destroyed. And the odds are great that most people with deep character issues (i.e. serial cheaters) do not WANT to change. Not long term anyway.”

Thank you, CL, for these words and your entire comment above. Such accuracy and wisdom. I will now apply this to every lying, abusive, cheater, user type I run across in my life. Dropping them immediately and not wasting any more of my time on them.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
7 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Agreed.
A chump should never take back a cheater because that person has betrayed you and has shown total disrespect. Even if the liar can change and become honest, it’s not going to be with someone who forgives the betrayal. person may learn from consequences and change with someone else, just not with you.

The pain of staying is not worth it for the chump, we can find love again with someone who has not already proven they don’t value us.

The only person I know,of that changed was self aware and empathetic enough to know the relationship they had was destroyed. She confessed to her partner and left the relationship. She has more empathy for people that cheat than I do but then she did it too. Difference being, one time in her twenties and honestly hating herself for the action. Not just for the pain she caused (she wasn’t caught, she confessed), she felt bad about her actions, she recognized how unethical it was.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
7 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Good point, CL and certainly fair enough. I still want to believe there is some goodness in Mr.Sparkles – especially because we share custody of our 10yo son and my stepchildren still want me in their lives. BUT, I also need to never forget that he is the same person who willingly blew up our family and my son’s childhood without so much as blinking.

If Felix can change in even small ways around honesty and transparency and break the cycle for his son, that will be an amazing accomplishment.

I have 5 stepchildren that would love for their Father to show that kind of self-awareness and willingness to do the heavy-lifting it takes to change. None of them trust intimate relationships (ages 18 – 24) – even with just platonic friends. It’s heartbreaking to watch.

It took my Dad 36 years to finally find his sobriety, so it’s true… people can change. But the collateral damage left in the wake sometimes cannot even be measured.

LJ
LJ
7 years ago

I recommend reading former Pick Up Artist Guru, Neil Strauss’ recent book The Truth: An Uncomfortable Book About Relationships. It provides insight to a man”s journey from being a cheater to exploring non traditional relationships to finding real intimacy and monogamy with the one woman who he truly loves.

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago

Felix, nice of you to write but just let her go so she can find peace. If you are not manogamous you are not. It took asswipe 30 years to figure that out and i had to point it out. Yes he loves being a couple and family life and all that. But if someone catches his eye he wants to go for it with no consequences. And no remorse. Hey i didnt kill anyone its all good right? no wrong he damn near killed me. 30 years felix 30 years for me. So im giving the whore exactly what she wants my complete and total removal from his life. No contact, nothing. Thats what the whore wants but not what asswipe wants. And i do this for me. Was the 30 years a total waste? No of course not. But ive learned many lessons from asswipe and now instead of believing in him i believe in me! I will remember the good times occasionally and forge on with my life seeking contentment and some happiness just being me untethered and free as i can be. He is miserable and when he finally accepts being good friends with me is not an option he will reap his just rewards. Cause she has forgiven and is best friends with her cheater husbands. Shes a cheater too. I give him my last gift. No more me. Stay single felix and be honest. Is it really worth hurting someone you care about? Asswipe wants me and every other woman he can get. Im either all in or all out. This girl is out. Be honest felix and nobody gets hurt.

Peakyblinders
Peakyblinders
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

As Bridget Jones says….”No contact is SO hard for me; I have this stupid little girl HOPE that he’ll snap out of it but it’s not going to happen. Just when I thought there was hope for reconciliation (he had a lightbulb moment!)”

Let me finish the sentence for my situation…. Buttttt no.. I got slapped in the face again. The only person that these Narc cheaters really love is THEMSELVES.

BridgetJones
BridgetJones
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

No contact is SO hard for me; I have this stupid little girl HOPE that he’l snap out of it but it’s not going to happen. Just when I thought there was hope for reconciliation (he had a lightbulb moment!), he told me he wants what he deserves in the way of financial remuneration for all the years he helped pay the mortgage on the home I already owned when we got married 25 years ago (he’s not on the title) In Cali, it’s called community property interest. He wants to be financially rewarded for BETRAYING our vows!!! So all of his hoovering and nice ACT was to get to that one moment when he could kill me again. I had filed for D to protect assets from whore and he is very angry that I did that. PS to all women out there. Get them to sign a prenup so they can’t ever get CPI decades down the road. I sure wish I had been advised to do that.

Done4Good
Done4Good
7 years ago
Reply to  BridgetJones

Some of the divorce laws in these states are so messed up! I live in a no-fault state which means I can’t use adultery as a reason. I have to settle on irreconcilable differences. It burns me that even the state tells him he’s blameless in the divorce. I can’t even imagine having to pay him money in addition to that slap in that face. Unbelievable!

uneffingbelievable
uneffingbelievable
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

BridgetJones – tell him it’s called “rent”. He obviously didn’t see it as an investment in the future since his behavior indicated that your marriage was only temporary. If he wants equity out of YOUR house, then he should have invested in it fully, instead of treating it like a stop-over between visits to the whores.

Kar marie
Kar marie
7 years ago

I added up my pay as babysitter, maid, paycheck i handed over for 27 years, chauffer, sex partner, gopher and a whole host of other jobs just for shits and giggles. I was bored that day. And sure enough the day i mentioned divorce he wanted way more than his share. No fault state. So i wipped out my trusty list and said for all of these hobs i wish to be paid! Well over a million dollars for services rendered. Wheres my money since my being a working wife and mother was not good enough for you and your mighty screaming wandering penis? He shut up real quick and i got what i wanted. I told him i always thought he thought mostly with his brain and not the little guy and since the wee one had to wander there was a price to be paid he wanted to give everything i worked for for 30 years over to the whore. I may be a chump but im not stupid. And i planted my feet flipped my hair and said this house can go into foreclosure or i will burn the sucker down right along with your business before i hand it over to some bitch! He was pissed i took a lawyers advice instead of his advice. Every idea he came up with was right out of the whores mouth. He said no his ideas. No they were not hers cant even tell the truth about that.

Done4Good
Done4Good
7 years ago
Reply to  Kar marie

“Wheres my money since my being a working wife and mother was not good enough for you and your mighty screaming wandering penis?”

LOL – Good for you!

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

Kiwichump – “he told me he never really stopped loving her and knew he didn’t really love before we even started the farm (but waited until year 9 to tell me that in counselling while he was cheating)”

I can’t believe that he never loved you, but never stopped loving her. WTF?! Then why the hell did he spend 9 years with you? A freaking decade?? This makes me SO angry I see red. So the fucker was a charlatan, the entire time, he was using you for his needs, like you said, you were a childminder, a maid, a chauffeur, etc. I can’t believe con-artists like this roam the earth. I hope this becomes public record so he doesn’t con another innocent person. There should be a warning system someone to warm innocent parties from charlatans like this.

kiwichump
kiwichump
7 years ago
Reply to  Done4Good

The Traitor claims he has a constructive interest in the trust I set up for the farm. All the money came from me, he had nothing but $100,000 + of debts and liabilities. But we worked together on the farm. I’ve added up my pay for caring for his 4 children, especially the second wife/whore’s child who was with us 50% of the time for 9 years. He cheated on me with second whore, he told me he never really stopped loving her and knew he didn’t really love before we even started the farm (but waited until year 9 to tell me that in counselling while he was cheating). All these years I called him the love of my life. When I told him what he has done to me is similar to using a date rape drug, except he did it with lies, you should have seen the display of righteous indignation.
I claim we were never really a couple, or a family. I was just a childminder, scullery maid, chauffeu, house appliance and sexual appliance. I claim they owe me $350,000 in wages, travel expenses to pick up the kid, room and board for her son etc. This doesn’t include compensation for emotional harm.
Second whore broke up his first marriage by the way. She is the Eat, Prey, Lie girl, never had a relationship with anyone who was unattached.
I will file that claim if he attacks the trust. I will name her in the claim, it will become public record. At least there will be a trace somewhere to warn the next chump against them.

Peakyblinders
Peakyblinders
7 years ago

he should have invested in it fully, instead of treating it like a stop-over between visits to the whores.

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago

Yes, I believe people do change if they REALLY WANT to. But you’re not guaranteed as to WHEN. It could be never or when they’re 60+, the point is, who the hell knows when they’ll change. And often times, it’s not even worth waiting around. Why not just got for someone who is a better fit, rather than doing the eternal waiting and hope dance. F- that! I have better things to do with my time.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
7 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

Yeah, I agree. I don’t even care if they do “change”, which I think is bullshit. Once they screw me over, we’re done. I have no more fucks left to give.

Kellia
Kellia
7 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Exactly!

Anita
Anita
7 years ago

I think people can change, but it’s not really easy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Talk is OK, to a point, but you need action. I’m guessing you look at porn a lot, or view women as objects to be used for sex. You got this from somewhere so now is the time to identity where and do whatever is necessary to cut those persons or things out of your life. That will make it so much easier for you.

Anita
Anita
7 years ago

Also, Felipe, every action you take will either bring you closer to your goal of being a better person, or it will take you further away from that goal. So ask yourself, is this an action I should take or not. Each person really is the sum total of every choice they make. If not for yourself, do it for your child.

felix
felix
7 years ago
Reply to  Anita

thank you.