Dear Chump Lady, He says he thought he’d never get caught
Dear Chump Lady,
When asked my husband why he kept cheating, his reply was — he never thought he’d get caught.
What would have been a better response? This one isn’t comforting. Can you speak a little about what he could have done to show he’s sorry?
Thanks,
Anne
Dear Anne,
Wow. Such a short letter and so much wrong.
Can you speak a little about what he could have done to show he’s sorry?
Anne — it’s not your job to show him how to be sorry. Sure, I could write you a script, draw a 15-point diagram, create a multimedia presentation, complete with a rousing performance by the Solid Gold Sorry Dancers. Assemble a whole army of laser pointers and focus your cheater towards a Clue. Make empathy flash cards! Put him a room with a rabbi, yogi, Methodist, 8th grade principle, and knuckle-rapping nun until he repents. Pantomime human expressions of remorse. (Cue Sad Puppy Eyes, NOW!) Force him to write “I’m sorry I cheated” 100,000 times on a mile of chalkboards. Lock him in the stockades and hurl rotten cabbages at his head. Make him watch a TED Talk. Make him watch an Esther Perel TED Talk until he begs for rotten cabbages…
It would be pointless, Anne — his sorry is not your responsibility.
First clue — if you have to show him how to be sorry? HE’S NOT SORRY.
Second clue — if he’s not leading the Amazon/Google/3 a.m. dark hour of the soul quest on How To Be Sorry? HE’S NOT SORRY.
Third clue — he’s sorry he got caught? HE’S NOT SORRY.
When asked my husband why he kept cheating, his reply was — he never thought he’d get caught.
So, he underestimated you. And now he’s stopped cheating? NOT because he sees the error of his ways, or feels one bit sorry for lying to you, exposing you to STDs, endangering your home life, your finances, or your children’s intact home life — no, he’s stopped because he got BUSTED?
That means, he’ll just find a workaround to get right back to cheating, because in his mind the problem isn’t HIM, the problem is the TRUTH.
Pesky, annoying, buzz kill truth. He had a double life full of delicious cake, and you had to go ruin it with discovery.
You’re not comforted from this, because yeah, it’s not very comforting. It’s what Scooby Doo villains say. “And I would’ve gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for you meddling kids!” Is the Scooby Doo villain ever sorry, Anne? Does Shaggy ever say, “Gee guys, maybe Mr. Grimly is really sorry and never meant to scare us! Maybe we should ask ourselves what we did to make Mr. Grimly to don that zombie costume and frighten investors so he alone could have the mining rights to Haunted Mountain. Perhaps Mr. Grimly feels toxic shame and could be rehabilitated with our unconditional love?”
No, Anne! Mr. Grimly is carted off in chains and justice is served. No one wonders why Mr. Grimly isn’t sufficiently sorry. It’s OBVIOUS. He wanted to get away with his crime! But was thwarted by meddlesome kids.
Your husband wanted to get away with his crime. He’s sorry that you thwarted him.
I’m sorry he didn’t give you the apology and the sincerity that you desire. I’m sorry that it does not hurt him to hurt you. But really, Anne, his unvarnished assholery is a gift. You don’t want to waste your time in false reconciliation. You need to deal with the reality you were dealt — a guy who is A-okay cheating on you. You haven’t much to work with here. Giving him pointers on how better to manipulate you into a false sense of security (Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse) is only going to hurt you further and keep you toking the hopium pipe.
Can you speak a little about what he could have done to show he’s sorry?
Yes. He can demonstrate his regrets with a credit report (to show any hidden monies, P.O. boxes, credit cards, or debts) and a generous post-nup settlement. Go ahead and suggest that. If you get any push back? There’s the depth of his “sorry.”
ME: “Why didn’t you just tell me that you were interested in seeing other women?”
CHEATER: “Because I knew you’d leave me.”
ME: Exit stage right
I got lots of “sorry”, she even told me she was ashamed…. but then I asked for a post nup until we worked things out. My X told me that was “against my principals”. I told her that staying with a lying, cheating abusive spouse was against my principals so we kind of had stale mate, which I broke by filing. Since then she has asked for / demanded over 100% of our assets and a huge amount of alimony/maintenance (she works and is paid a tonne of money, so would get by with half our assets and her own salary), so I now see exactly how sorry she really is.
Actions mean so much more than words when it comes to cheating.
Bitch
Perfectly said ID!
Good heavens, FSTL! She is a flaming piece of work, isn’t she? Entitled much? They don’t do sorry. I for one am very sorry for any chump, male or female, who has to pay a single dime to the cheaters.
Indeed… and her fuckbuddy who she is so in love with and is apparently so in love with her and has made her lots of promises has a shit load of money as well. Entitled and power/control hungry…. how dare I mess with her cake laden life and leave her? I don’t leave her, she leaves me (she virtually said this after I filed). I guess she thinks I will (literally) pay for it!!
Wow, what a control freak she is!
Gold diggers have principles too: do it for the money!
Me: “If you’re just friends, why did you lie about going out with her?”
Cheese Fries: “Because I wanted to do it and you would have told me no.”
Possibly that was when I realized he was an emotional adolescent. Unfortunately, I got stuck in the trap of trying to explain to him why he was wrong/hurtful/etc. Took me longer to realize he didn’t care.
I got stuck in this trap for years. I was sure there were magic words that I had not yet found that would make it clear and then he would be sorry and we could move forward. I was so very stupid.
No no not stupid just chumped like the rest of us.
No one is stupid for being expertly lied to and deceived, and for trying to understand and communicate with the person they have committed to. If a stranger or a business defraud you out of even a small amount of money, the law is on your side and you can get them prosecuted. Yet these people lie and defraud their families for years and are never punished. You are not stupid, the law is.
The worst part is we aren’t the stupid ones! We use our brains and try to speak about this rationally and like real human beings! Not idiots trapped in fairyland! But then STBX gets all bitchy about how I’m living in a dream. Okay. Because I’m the one that wants a wife AND a girlfriend?! AND I’m the one acting like a love struck 12 year old in a 34 year old body?! AND I’m the one that is “in love” after texting for five months with someone?! REALLY?! I’m the crazy person here? I’m stupid?! Because I’m pretty sure if I told someone, anyone I was leaving a marriage of ten years, a condo and my best friend for someone that has a child that is the product of rape by her ex fiancé, has been bankrupted and had her 401k stolen by two different men and is in the process of divorcing a physically abusive alcoholic husband. I’d probably be told to run run run in the opposite direction. Back to sanity and safety in life. STBX can’t even afford to live on his own so he is MOVING IN with someone he has known for a few months. ??? And I’m the stupid one living in fairyland. The problem when you’re a good person is guy believe you chose a good person and that you’d know they weren’t good after living with them for decades. Clearly not! ?
BetterDays has a BINGO ~~ they.don’t.care.
Me: “If you’re just friends, why did you lie about going out with her?”
Cheese Fries: “Because I wanted to do it and you would have told me no.”
I had this exact exchange with my ex. Word for word. SMH
Ha. That’s exactly how things went down in the first instance with me. But the tune changes over time. “I didn’t say because I knew you’d leave me” turns into “You knew all along, so I did nothing wrong.” The new hypothesis that I “knew all along” is evidenced by the fact that “I never asked about it.” I also never asked if he was secretly killing puppies, trafficking nuclear weapons, or farming on Mars. Their failure of communication swiftly turns into the failure of our imagination.
Ha! So well said.
And if you’re foolish enough to reconcile, they turn that on you as well. After our bogus reconciliation ended, ex told people he had done nothing wrong because I “knew what he was.”
GIO, I pray they use that same rational on the AP.
ME: If you do this again to me, I won’t take you back
CHEATER: Don’t worry, I won’t come back. And if I do, you shouldn’t take me back. In fact, it was a mistake for you to have taken me back before.
ME: *mouth agape*
Context: he begged and begged and begged to be taken back but apparently it was *my bad* for taking him back.
Update: when he did inevitably come back I told him to fuck off or I’d call the cops. Got it right that time.
“And if I do, you shouldn’t take me back. In fact, it was a mistake for you to have taken me back before.”
It’s always mind-boggling when they let the truth slip out by accident.
HM, this is so similar to what happened with my STBXH. He actually told me the last time I took him back (also after he begged me to let him come home), that he “felt bad” because I’ve let him come back multiple times. Translation: I feel bad that you were stupid enough to take me back yet again, since I’m only getting worse and never planning to change. I actuallt did call the police the last time he tried to come by my house and he knew that this is the real deal. No chance in hell, EVER!!!!
Is this guy for real?? I can’t believe he said he felt bad that you took him back multiple times, insinuating you’re a moron to have taken him back. This makes me so mad! I’m glad you called the police, because now he knows you mean business. Good for you!!
Thanks, Kellia! Yep, so glad to be rid of him for good. Complete no contact and divorce just became final! The horrible cord has finally been cut!!! Freedom and time to truly gain a life, a good, peaceful, cheater/asshole-free life.
Cheater: “you didn’t care enough about me to ask me if I was cheating”
Me: “so if I had asked, would you have told me the truth?”
Cheater: “probably not”
Isn’t it amazing that when you get just one tiny crumb of honesty it’s about how dishonest they are?
lol
What’s up with the “you knew”? I got that one too. No, I didn’t know. I was so shocked seeing emails from hookers that 9 years later I’m still dealing with diagnosed PTSD from the trauma of it! Do they tell themselves that we know to make themselves feel better about what they’re doing?
I think that cheaters invent their own reality. They decide how you feel without actually asking you. Then, they justify their decisions based on what they’ve convinced themselves you think or feel. At least that’s how it seemed to work in my situation.
My STBX says I stopped loving him way back when. When the sex slowed down because you cut me off emotionally? Because YOU stopped loving me? I still love you you asshat! ? He’s told me so many times how I feel. And then he gets mad when I assume how he’s feeling ? So dysfunctional!
Lyn +1,000. This is exactly it.
Oh yea! That!
Lyn, the asshat I married actually said that! Nearly verbatim. What a fucking assault on the chump. I had no idea I was being punished by asshat because of asshat’s false assumptions which proved, in his mind, justification for being a serial cheating manwhore throughout my ‘marriage’.
I couldn’t have said that any better, Lyn!
Same story just a different sociopath/narcissist…I think!
Yes – they invent their own reality. I was told when dipshit was caught that I should have seen it coming – we were going to get a divorce anyway. We’ve been roommates for the past 10 years.
News to me asswipe. And what ‘roommates’ still sleep together every night?
And Louisville – same here. I got my nails done, so I must be cheating. I wore more make-up – therefore, I must be looking myself. What an asswipe.
Same here. My ex was telling me he loved me and I was his best friend right up until the end, when it suddenly changed to “we were always going to eventually divorce,” “we never should have gotten married in the first place,” “we were just roommates” and all the rest of the drivel these pods spout.
His last Christmas card to me said, “Life gives you beautiful things…it gave me you.” Thirty-six hours later after discovering OWhore, I was nothing to him. Christmas will never be the same.
“My ex was telling me he loved me and I was his best friend right up until the end, when it suddenly changed to “we were always going to eventually divorce,” “we never should have gotten married in the first place,”
For the life of me, I can’t believe a person can act this way, say one thing and then change it so drastically!!! I just can’t fathom. And it’s so cruel to say we never should have gotten married in the first place. It’s so mean and hurtful. I’m so sorry, he’s such an asshole.
Asswipe was mostly like that i figured he asked himself questions to me and then answered them according to his fucked up thinking. What a bunch of pod assholes.
Amen, Lyn.
Lightbulb moment! Lyn, you just put into words what I always felt was going on in my marriage. Thank you. Always imputing thoughts or intentions to me, then accusing ME of being the cause of whatever, thus justifying his actions, and preserving his view of himself as a nice guy.
Yes, Lyn, this
+2
My.walls.will.sing, here is a random list of possible reasons for “you knew”:
* They have been fucking around so much and for so long it’s impossible to imagine anyone presuming monogamy, anywhere, ever.
* They have been telling fuck buddies that you know, that you have an arrangement, that you are really fifty shades of okay-with-all-this — so much and for so long that they themselves started believing it. If you say it often enough it becomes true. Works kinds like the Internet in that way.
* They said something to themselves under their breath once in the bathroom while you happened to be cooking in the kitchen and that, in their book, counts as coming clean. No?
* Their affair partners assured them that you must know, and they have no emotional intelligence of their own, so they take on the affair partners’ opinion as their own. This person’s so sparkly, they must be right!
* They really think that you know because you are a terrible person who would just put up with terrible things like that and continue to live with terrible people who do terrible things.
* They really low opinion of their own sneaking skills. Are they doing this right? Can you see them from over there? How about here?
* They distinctly remember that part in your vows where you said “for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, irrespective of how many people you fuck behind my back without telling me…”
* You never asked the right precise question, so clearly you did not want to find out, which means you already knew. See how that works?
* They are just trying to fuck with you head – psych!
They know full well you did not know. They took great pains so you would not.
Thanks for the input! Probably all of the above are true. He even lied in his “recovery” counseling, making up things like that I had walked in on him looking at porn on the computer. I hadn’t. They even lie to counselors and in their counseling groups. The funniest lie is that he tells people I passed away. I think he got this strategy from a Seinfeld episode, where George carries around a picture of a beautiful woman, saying it’s his ex that passed away. It gets women, plus sympathy. I’ve encountered a few people with mighty surprised looks on their faces that I’m still alive!! As has been said here before, you can’t make this shit up!
Spot on with the lying to counselors and leaving out major chunks of information to make them look good. Sociopath and manipulative traits for sure. Oddly, I found the counselor was easily fooled.
TheOtherWMB, what an amazing summary you provided of the cheater’s mindset! It’s brilliant!!! It’s all exactly what goes on in their minds, and they are so messed up.
The OW was apparently sure that I knew – the trouble is that he was lying to her too about his life at home. Why do we presume that proven liars come over all honest with their APs?
My ex had a simple strategy that served him well – tell whoever is asking whatever version of events suits at that moment in order to avoid any difficult questions or unpleasant consequences. Tell them what they want to hear. Make it their fault to diffuse any blame.
Tell some of the truth as leaving out large chunks of the story or changing the context to mislead does not count as lying.
The main thing is to save your own sorry ass every time.
Exactly Mary!!! You precisely summed up Dr. Crazy’s approach to all aspects of life, not just his sex perversions. His own sons, friends and co-workers felt that way too. I haven’t figured out how they get so far in life living like this.
I think at about year 12 of marriage, he shifted from sneaky cheating to a “we have an arrangement, she cheats too” mind set because he knew a guy at work was flirting wildly with me and one day I was late coming home from work. (In reality I was caring for a critically ill child while he thinks I was fucking a hot lab tech).
In reality I never cheated. I think he expected a “well we HAVE had this arrangement” discussion at DDay with Susan of Seattle but what he got from me was “HELL NO, I NEVER EVER CHEATED” and I think he believed me so he found himself in deeper shit than he realized he was in.
TheOther
“They have been telling fuck buddies that you know, that you have an arrangement, that you are really fifty shades of okay-with-all-this — so much and for so long that they themselves started believing it. If you say it often enough it becomes true. Works kinds like the Internet in that way.”
The fuck buddies he had while on “dating” sprees were told we were in the process of divorce and still living together. The lies he told about me were to gain empathy. He went for the vulnerable and abused women who felt sorry for him.
The whore Nancy was not this type. She knew he was married and didn’t care. During the divorce he actually told me I emotionally abused HIM. This was a man who cheated through his entire marriage. In the end he landed in a mess he will never recover from.
Not only do I get to trust he sucks, his life sucks.
“Not only do I get to trust he sucks, his life sucks.”
That’s very comforting Doingme. Dr. Crazy has had 5 jobs in 14 months. Yes. His life sucks too. Comforting indeed.
I got the same thing, DoingMe! I was abusing him!!!!!!!! Yeah okay buddy
Ditto. The abuse accusations came at the end. At the end when I told him I was not putting up with more shit. The word ‘no’ is to them like water to a gremlin…or sunlight to a vampire…or moonlight to a werewolf. Well a merry fuck you cheaters!
I got told he was in an abusive relationship. I also got told I didn’t listen to him. The thread the other week where a whole heap of people said they got the same thing and it meant I didn’t act like a slave and do everything he asked of me was salve to a burn.
Awesome summary, TOWMB! I especially like the muttering under one’s breath in the bathroom! When I got really close to the truth, after slogging my way through the gas lighting and blameshifting, I too usually heard, “I told you already!” Nope. Didn’t get that notification at all. Must have been muttered somewhere I wasn’t. Thanks for the great post for the day.
*This. I got many versions of this, but also that he thought the affair would be a secret he would have with himself until he died. Makes no sense.
It’s not supposed to be logical. Just a carousel of self-justification: Didn’t want to hurt you / Thought you’d never know / Thought you already knew / Thought you’d leave me / Thought you were doing the same / You never asked / I knew you’d get on your high horse and didn’t want to give you the satisfaction
Don’t forget- I’m better than you !
My STBX told me, “you started wearing more makeup. So I knew that you knew because you were trying to make yourself more attractive to me. Or, you were having an affair.”
In reality, they had some really good deals at Ulta.
I don’t know but I have a friend who has managed to convince herself that she’s stopped her husband from cheating because she keeps catching him before he “gets too far along in the process.” Each time he’s caught he has some lame excuse. You were too busy being a new mom, you don’t pay enough attention to me, blah, blah. She finds his emails and texts to women co-workers and hookers. Him setting up dates he says he never gets to. She’s convinced he hasn’t cheated. Yet. It’s just flirting. I wish I could get through to her but she’s just not ready to hear the truth. She knows my truth but thinks hers is a different reality.
Oh, the real fun with those friends is when they look down their nose at you and think that you are just bitter and that you just want everyone else’s marriage to end badly because yours did.
It’s not that their spouse is cheating, so much as sour grapes on your part!
Hah! Um, no. I can just see the forest for the trees. If it looks like a cheater and acts like a cheater, it is a cheater. Plain and simple.
All the time with them going, “That was your life, not mine. My spouse would never do that, he’s the exception.” Yeah. OK. Guess you’ll figure it out eventually!
The Nile is not just a river in Egypt.
That is a fucking miserable existence.
Yes it is. They have a little girl and all I can think is her growing up with that fuckwit of a father and my friend thinking she’s somehow managing to keep that idiot from straying. They went to counseling and supposedly he’s so much better as a husband now. People don’t change which is exactly what she said about my fuckwit. But people can’t be forced to see their own reality until they are ready.
Poor thing! That has to be so stressful and sad and lonely for her! And demeaning to have to “stop” him over and over again! Love makes you crazy! I still love my STBX and wish he’d fix himself! But that’s not going to happen! ☹️
I still love mine too ss. I always will, at least the guy i used to know. But i no longer wish to be around him or near him so i am not. Its no longer healthy for me so i bid that life adieu. It does get better with time.
Think of how low her self value is…to have to cajole or police some one into being faithful to you. Your friend is truly lost.
Think of how wonderful HE feels…that he is such a prize that she devotes large chunks of her life (she should use that time with her little girl or self improvement) to guarding and growling over this “grown” man like he is a valuable prize to guard…like the Crown Jewels.
She is wasting her life on a piece of shit. See, we are not so dumb after all. We may be sad or mad….but she is dwelling in a type of living death. 🙁
Yup, mine told me I should have known she was doing it, and the only reason I didn’t was because I was “so out of it.”
So you are out of it. She a fucking bitch pod. What an awful thing to say but if its walks like a pod…talks like…..
Instead of the “You should have known,” I got the “I was going to tell you when….” When he sent the wrong text to me and I told him exactly where he can shove his phone and where he can go, he came home. I was sitting on the back porch drinking a beer at 10a.m. and he said, “I was going to tell you when S25 came home for leave. You would have handled it better then.” It then turned in to, “I was going to tell you after we resided the house,” then, “before vacation” “after you came back from visiting your family” and the list goes on and on. They never fucking tell.
I think the answer, “I fucked around because I didn’t think I’d get caught.” is about as honest as it will ever get. Believe that they would still be doing it and will do so again. Get out quickly.
Ian,
You’re so freakin’ awesome.
Annie, I would say you nailed it. I would actually have preferred “I fucked around because I didn’t think I’d get caught.” Instead, upon MY discovery, not MoFaux’s disclosure, he then told me that he wanted to tell me four months earlier while we were on a holiday. Note the classy timing but cowardly non-effort.
I think our 22 year history got ‘shat’ upon in that moment where he revealed the depth of his deceitfulness.
Yep. More and more keeps coming to my mind. I was invited to a poker game with a bunch of guys from work a few years ago. I brought Fucktard. He was accused of cheating. I defended the bastard because my husband would not cheat at cards. What an idiot I was. I was probably the only one on Earth that trusted him. One thing I learned, no one who is a liar is just a liar on one part of their life. They’re a liar in everything.
“Out of it” otherwise known as blind trust. Trust in the person we’ve committed ourselves to thinking that person would never in a million years act like a selfish, reckless, lying POD who could willfully destroy his/her partner and family without batting an eye.
Sure, I’ll accept that assessment. Gladly. Beats the alternative.
Yeap. I got blamed by my wife too – “How could you NOT know!!”. We’ll…
A) because when I asked several months before D day you vehemently said no, and I trusted you;
B) I was so busy with managing our household, including a wild teenager and a toddler, and my mentally – taxing job plus teaching part time and supervising grad student research at the local university, plus your constant drama and need for “me” time, to second guess your actions. Again, I trusted you; and
C) mistakenly, I thought much of your actions were because you were slipping deeper into alcoholism which scared and disappointed the hell out of me and our kids. It also was a convenient rouse for why you stayed out “with friends” so often. But, I trusted you.
So, given a choice, yeah, I’ll be the dolt because I trusted you until the end. Chalk it up along with my many other character flaws.
I never got ‘you knew’ because he worked overtime ensuring not a hair to be found, or a petrol gauge to be questioned. Like I would notice the level of petrol in his car??? But I did ask. Outright. Twice. And felt like an arsehole for doing so. He was lovely, held me and convinced me I was working too hard and just tired, there was nothing going on with him and my ‘friend’.
Even when I found out he drove to her city to help her break up some concrete on her section where he was too ‘flat out’ to come on a fishing trip with myself and the kids when I finally got a couple of days off work. Chump! I can still see it, the story he told. And that I swallowed, hook, line and sinker (sorry for the fishing metaphor. Couldn’t help myself!) I never even thought to question again for another year. Fuckers were good. He had strict rules about texts. Nothing more than friends. Even if I did pick up his phone, never anything to worry about there. When I eventually asked the second time if he was making a fool of me, even I thought I must be ready for the funny farm. I had NEVER been a jealous person. It was exceptionally uncomfortable to ask as it wasn’t me. And I thought it wasn’t him. We had an open and honest 20+ years by then. Except for, oh, the last 15 months, that is! It never goes away this pain. This stain on your life.
Mine said “She N-E-E-D-S me. You are TOO competent and don’t need me”.
I didn’t realize that being competent was a detriment. Yes, I didn’t need a rescuer, but I thought we were supposed to be partners and co-parents. But looking back, I was delusional since he was disengaged from the get-go….just focused in his own interests and not his family. The family got in the way of HIM doing HIS things. The kids say that it isn’t any different now without him around since it was really always like that.
Same bitch had guy friends around to “fix her garage door,” FreeWoman. Yeah. I bet ?
HA, we need some new catch-phrases for cheating, like ‘Breakin up her concrete’!
Mine was Fixing her faucet, and Taking her to the Junkyard. LOL
Got this as well, there was an underlying current of criticism for me “not noticing” or blaming how “disconnected we were” for me not having worked it out. Like you, I pointed out I did notice and asked straight up and got a lie. In fact I didn’t “notice” because of the extreme lengths of deceit and gaslighting she went to to make sure I didn’t notice.
Total mindfuckery.
Yeah. I knew HE was disconnected and I’d tried to reconnect multiple times because he wanted more sex. So I’d give it a go. But he wasn’t connecting more just getting laid more and then eventually I’d burn out from sexy dancing him and he’d disconnect even more. Until apparently he just left and never told me and then found someone else. “I wasn’t looking for someone else.” Nope. That’s why you started texting her and hiding it and then eventually slept with her too. Because it just happened and nobody knows that you’re in dangerous waters when things start getting flirty?! Yeah. Right.
Yes, they are disconnected from us, meaning they are no longer attracted to us. Simply because, well, they are attracted to someone else. And they don’t bother telling us. Instead, we need to figure out from the lies, deception, covert behavior, fraud they are perpetrating on us.
It’s amazing how similar these stories are. And what did they do when they began to feel this “disconnectedness?” Did they come to us and sit down and try to talk about it? Well, mine just got on FB and found an old college boyfriend. Voila, problem fixed!
You guys get it. It’s amazing.
Oaktree, that’s some grade A blame shifting. I got it too — was told that I “live in a bubble.” Apparently you’re enlightened and aware and oh-so-not-out-of-it only if you telepathically know that your beloved is merrily fucking other people. Nobody’s perfect! How “out of it” of you to expect basic communication and honesty in a relationship! You really should no better, Oaktree! And next time, I’m sure you will 🙂
We were so “out of it” because the cheater used sex, love, and lies to drug us into unwitting submission. MG in effect tortured me, and when she was exposed I felt guilty. Cheaters are the enemy.
“live in a bubble”… Heh.
Nowdeadserialcheaterwife’s phrasing of that to one boyfriend, in repsonse to the question “where’s your hubby?” was “He doesn’t care, he’s in his own little world.”
Apparently these people find blind contemptuous.
*blind trust
That was supposed to be “know,” BTW. I’m a little out of it too, and proudly so.
Oaktree – So it’s your own fault. These idiots never cease to amaze me.
Yeah, and the straight out lying to your face played no part in it. They are so innocent! If you had just known you could have stopped it. I can’t even begin to understand how their brains function!
Right? You only get the right answer if you ask the right question. So, dance, puppet, dance, spin around trying to find the right question while I split hairs to avoid answering, dance!
I think you described it very well – STBX’s favorite tools are half truths and word salads. I don’t think I ever had a successful meaningful discussion with him throughout our 15-year relationship because of the way he evades responsibility for a problem. When he feels I am closing in on the truth, he changes tactics and like a squid, he shoots ink to confuse and cloud my thoughts. I always end up feeling stupid, and question my own thoughts and sanity. I always end up spackling (albeit also harbouring some resentment) just to get this sick relationship to work.
OMG! The squid! That was me last night! He’s tossing the word salad and shit and then BAM! I hit him direct with “Do you say ‘I love you’ to the whoremat?” torpedo! Had no way to dance around that one!
Oh, yes, forgot the intermediate stage between “I didn’t say because I thought you’d leave me” and “I didn’t say because I thought you knew all along”: “You never asked a direct question.” Apparently my question “Have you had an affair?” ten years ago wasn’t direct enough. The devil being in the details, I should have asked: “Have you been screwing prostitutes and bargirls around the globe for over two decades?” Serve me right.
Oh, so we’ll said!
I wish I had recorded my STBX every time he said something crappy like this. I did tell my sisters and friends a lot of it, and they were able to spit it out verbatim those times that I was overcome with hopetimism. It took a while (who am I kidding? It took WAY to fucking long) for all of that stuff to accumulate into an undeniable pile of shit that represents EXACTLY WHO HE IS.
Anne, you will be able to look at the CL archives every time you need to snap out of a hopetimistic haze. I hope it helps.
I wish I recorded it too!
It doesn’t do me any good except to trigger the helpless feeling of arguing with somebody who will say horrible things and move the goal posts. It is so amazing it took actual proof of cheating for me to walk, the marriage was pretty bad for me without that added in.
I found recordings very useful. I am too prone to hopetimism. The recordings are proof of what I am still too likely to spackle over. He spent 9 years telling me I was negative and depressed when in fact I was ridiculously optimistic, forgiving, and trusting. After DD he even got me on anti depressants. I was high as a kite tolerating everything, allowed him to go to his high school reunion while I looked after his and the whore’s son, and of course I found out he had been to see her. So he had managed to drug the little common sense I had left out of me.
Recordings are essential if you have chump tendencies.
True story. I have a recording because I thought it would help if he could hear how abusive his argument was, so he knew we recorded argument in April, DD#2 was July. I asked point blank if he was having affair and he made fun of me for thinking of it. He was over a year into his current affair. On recording.
I have a recording too, and that’s what I’m going to use in the court.
Hi Anne,
You sound so much like me when I first came here. My d-day was 11th January 2016. I was trying to stay friends, because I had yet to learn the extent of his lies and betrayal. I remember some tough love being doled out to me, I really wasn’t ready for it, but it stuck with me (thanks Kar-Marie). Everything that was written about the character of a cheater, how they don’t deserve us, the lack of remorse, the grandiose sense of entitlement, how you need to document everything you discover (and it is always worse than you think it will be), it was all true.
I sent an email to my cheating husband asking why he lied, stole and cheated instead of just leaving, I received a text message back”I am very sorry for my poor behaviour”. No he wasn’t, no he isn’t, no he never will be.
Don’t waste anymore of your awesomeness on someone a dung beetle would pass up as being too disgusting. You are a mighty warrior, go forge yourself the best, most wonderful life surrounded by people who deserve to have you near them. We are your brothers and sisters in arms. Take care and put yourself first.
I also owe Kar Marie! I love her take no prisoners attitude. Us chumps need that!
Aw you make me blush.
Yes Kar Marie, we love you. You welcomed me to these boards and you were so warm and caring. You rock girl!!
I try i understand the pain i will always be here for anyone who needs and for me. Thank you.
You’re my spirit animal, Kar marie! <3
Aww.
😉
“someone a dung beetle would pass up as being too disgusting”.
Is this copyrighted? Can I use it? Such a wonderful visual/olfactory/tactile description. Perfect, just perfect for X.
happily never after, feel free to use it. I love the visual as well.
If i helped even a little thank you but the credit goes here they all helped me. Glad your feeling mighty!
Kar marie, you helped a lot. When I feel I have something to contribute (and am not already in bed due to living in Australia) I post. I really want to pay it forward. He went to lawyers to try and get money out of me – I wasn’t going for anything. Now I am going for my share of his superannuation. His greed and entitlement will now cost him. Fuck ’em all!
I probably showed more in terms of being ‘Sorry’ in the initial period after D-Day, I was sorry for:-
– Sorry for not paying you enough attention
– Sorry for not earning more money for us to go on nice vacations
– Sorry for working hard to be able to provide a house we couldn’t afford
– Sorry for making you feel like you were ‘Invisible’ (Still don’t know what that one means)
I suspect many other chumps feel this and blame themselves for the cheaters fuck-bucket of disordered shit. None of it is our chumpy fault, As time goes on you come to realise that the only thing to be sorry for was putting up with their bullshit, manipulation and shitty-ness for so long.
It’s the Wheel of Fortune of cheating! Cheaters, use this handy wheel to figure out how to respond to any situation. Spouse doesn’t pay enough attention? [spin] CHEAT! Spouse pays too much attention…ugh, just leave me alone already! [spin] CHEAT! Spouse pays neither too much nor too little attention, leading to toxic shame of not being as perfect as they are? [spin] CHEAT! It works in reverse, too. Spouse wants to know why you cheated? Spin the wheel and pick a reason, any reason will do!
My advice is to play the chump version: [spin] BUH-BYE.
I started with the im sorrys and then said fuck you asswipe im not sorry for things beyond my control.
What he did get was sorry i met you sorry i believed in you sorry i ever handed over every penny i ever made sorry i took you back those kinds of sorrys i hurled at him. I got well calm down no reason to get all huffy! Aaarrrggghhh!
Hes sorry he got caught and really sorry he lost more than half his shit. Thats his sorry. Fucker.
Ya – asswipe was more ‘sorry’ that I got half “his” pension & 401K. And also sorry that he screwed himself by cashing in his Roth behind my back – so he had to pay me half of that too. He got left with all the penalties and taxes on it though – so he lost money on that ‘deceptive’ maneuver. Dumbass.
I was guilty of this too. Wrote her a letter apologizing for all my wrongs. I would really like to have that back! I wasn’t until a few months of NC that I realized I wasn’t 100% at fault for the failure of the marriage. I now know that the majority of fault lies with the X. I get to watch the screw ups and BS from a distance now. The new relationship is a fuckfest and very entertaining for me to watch. She’s just as screwed up as ever. I just have to forgive myself for having kids with X and subjecting them to the disordered one.
lostntx, I apologized all over the God damn place. Took 50% of the responsibility for the debacle.
I wish someone had been beside me to smack me upside the head.
Like delightful Ian, I am a one-and-done person. No idea how many there really were. The one I know about was the last chapter in my not-best seller!
“She’s just as screwed up as ever. I just have to forgive myself for having kids with X and subjecting them to the disordered one.”
Same with my wife. In fact, in her delusional, alcoholic blur she seems to be increasingly screwing up her relationship with our wonderful kids. It breaks my heart that she ignores them, lies to them, and takes them for granted. They are great kids and they don’t deserve the hand they have been dealt.
“It breaks my heart that she ignores them, lies to them, and takes them for granted. They are great kids and they don’t deserve the hand they have been dealt.”
I know, isn’t it sad how they treat the kids the same way they treated us? These are innocent helpless children. Then again, these folks are mentally disordered and nothing in their behavior surprises me anymore. If they did it to us, they will do it to their own children. Why would it be any different. I hate them.
Did the same thing!! But then she threw it back in my face, so I managed to remove it from her desk drawer (woops…).
I never apologized to Match Girl. I told her from the get-go it was a one-and-done deal for me. I sis send one sappy email telling her the things I loved about her. But I never asked to her to wreckoncile.
I have, as of late, contemplated penning a faux apology to manipulate her. But even that small! psychodrama I would only entertain engaging in if I had a clear goal in mind. Cheaters have spent their lives mjndfucking empaths. Problem for Match Girl is I know her weaknesses. It’s another example of why she just doesn’t engage me even on legal matters. She’s afraid she’ll take damage and face consequences. The longer she waits, the worse it gets for her dumb ass.
Is she a procrastinator?
Nah, she’s quite the type-a bitch-on-wheels. You know, always dressed to the nines, perfect hair and makeup, best shoes and bags, and never late. I am too, but I like to rise early, and she is an up-all-night type. She just knows that the wheels of justice grind slowly. I am starting to wonder if she is hoping I’ll get a girlfriend and lose interest in fighting her. Ha. Little does she know I come to Chump Lady and get my righteous indignation stoked!
Mickeyblueeyes – I could have written exactly those same statements. I even wrote letters to her family apologizing for those same things. I wanted them to know I was so sorry for whatever it was that I did to drive her away. This was before I found out about the cheating. When I did, then I found CL/CN, woke up and shut that shit down. Your statements are soooo true. She’s with her cheater now and they’re getting married in June. I’ll be totally free then.
Oh yes, I accepted MORE than my fair share of the blame:
Sorry you felt unappreciated
Sorry I didn’t retain my 20s figure
Sorry you were so lonely that you allowed a scary bunny boiler psycho to “fill your void”
Sorry to infinity for never, ever being enough for you no matter how hard I tried.
After more than fifteen years of his lies, deceit and brutal coldness, I’ve finally moved into the acceptance stage. I’m now sorry for a whole lot of other reasons:
Sorry you’re so disordered and self-absorbed that you can’t see your finger twitching on the trigger of your own ticking time bomb
Sorry you’re slowly losing touch with reality and eventually, with everyone close to you including your own child
Sorry our marriage has been boiled down to a series of financial transactions
Sorry that one day you may reach a point where you are old, confused and alone with no idea of how you ended up in that sorry state
But I will NEVER be sorry for taking back control of my life.
Amen, Done4Good! I love your new list! Cheering from the home team bleachers!
Oh, yeh, THIS !!
I was replaced by a guy with Narcissistic Personality Disorder who could mimic her “needs” and make her feel “special”…. so special he was embarrassed to have anyone know about her (even though both myself and his wife have filed for divorce, so there’s no need to keep it secret anymore), despite what he “told her” during the affair about how awesome she was.
Little children believe all sorts of shit they are told and so do people having affairs. Fantasy is so much more awesome than working out the day to day or a marriage.
Best to just leave them to their special sort of awesomeness and move on without them.
+1
Well said D4G… the “Sorry” list does look MUCH better after acceptance (and relief!).
For the newcomers… hang in there… give it time… shitty, painful, unrelenting time.
+1
+1
So true. One thing that is so confusing early on in the process is the fact that no person is perfect and the chump is no exception, so the cheater can use the chump’s issues as ammo to claim.the cheating was the chump’s fault. This is one of those situations where the base statement is basically accurate (like saying “”You treat me like I’m invisible” while the rest of the story, also true, is left out — .”while I am emotionally ostracizing you and it is breaking your heart for me to act like YOU are invisible, and that’s how I stay in control of you, but I will NEVER admit this.” This keep you busy trying to untangle the skeins while the cheater is (a) feeling smug and smart for getting away with it and (B) gaining more freedom to do it.
Yes! And marriage counseling made it so much worse!!
Or…they enter an affair, devalue us and treat us like crap. We consequently become less emotionally open to them, and then they accuse us of not loving them enough, which led them to have an affair/the demise of the relationship/etc. etc. etc.
Lose-lose. It’s *always* lose-lose with a cheater.
EXACTLY!
I don’t know if you kind souls remember but I used to have chest pains…I thought I was having a heart attack. It was REAL pain. I would press my hands on my heart and think: Is this it? I am having a heart attack!!! I have low blood pressure!
My GP told me the stress and shock of it weakened my heart wall. It is called “Broken Heart Syndrome. It can kill you if I had not got on medication to slow down all the adreneline and cortisol racing through my system
Not for $10 million dollars cash in my hand would I suffer through that searing hurt again.
I had those pains too Sylvia during the months my brain was frantically reliving my life with Dr. Crazy, but with the full knowledge of who he truly is and always will be. They’re very real and very frightening.
I used trauma therapy techniques, meditation, prayer and journaling to get through that period. Now I’m strengthening my heart with running and yoga.
What kind of medicine?
On the actual last day I saw the this Monster, he actually emailed me and said:
“I love you so much but I think we are pushing each other apart.”
It was just so……wrong, I was wild with rage. I wrote back something like, in all caps:
What are you talking about, I did not cheat, etc etc
But, he was reading from wicked script that had nothing to do with ACTUAL REALITY. I felt so wild, because the betrayal was like open heart surgery with no anesthesia, but on top of it…having a conversation with an insane person?
“The betrayal was like open heart surgery with no anesthesia….”
Best description ever of how it feels to be betrayed!
Ding!
WE HAVE A WINNER!
I once thought about explaining this cycle to Narkles the Clown but if I’ve learned anything here it’s what a waste of air that would be.
True. We are convinced if we just put it in simple enough terms, they will see REASON; they will have EMPATHY. Nope–cheaters are constitutionally incapable of either. Better to go talk to a tree, which will at least benefit from the carbon dioxide.
Reason and empathy are replaced with intimidation, threats and bullying because, as stated, they are constitutionally unable to reason or empathize. Crazy making and tantrums are all you’re gonna get in response to sanity and reason. My narc threatened me with jail because his daughter doesn’t want to see him. She’s so angry at his lies. I told him that instead of threatening me he should show his daughter some qualities that would make her want to trust and be with him. But all he understands is demanding his way and bullying. I am so sorry my precious girl has a grandiose toddler for a father. I was reading texts where she confronted him on his lies – she sounds like the adult with reason and good spelling/grammar. He sounds like an illiterate whiny blameshifter. And she sees right through it. She’s not even in high school yet.
Ding ding again.
And, I bet the tree has more empathy than a lying cheater.
Trees and even inanimate objects have more empathy than cheaters.
And the tree gives us Oxygen!! Way more useful than a cheater!
Wait – that’s not right either. Empathize – there. (I’m a spelling nut!)
Sorry, meant Empathy, not emphasize!
Ha – empathy. Just brought back a memory.
I asked him to please emphasize with me and be truthful about any other affairs (which I knew there were).
And, his answer was, Have some empathy for ME! I’ve already told you there were no others.
:barf:
Dear Anne,
He cheated because he could. He cheated because he loves only himself. He cheated because for him it is boring not to – why not after all? He cheated because life is “too short”.
He is only sorry you found out, because now it all takes more effort.
He does not love or care for anything other than himself. If ever tempted to “let it go” think of all those times he has lied to you. Affairs take time, money and effort. All of which could have been directed at you.
He does not love you.If he did, he would never have done it. You would have been too precious to lose.
There is no sorry coming your way I’m afraid. Tough to get your head and heart working together, I know. Keep looking at what he did, not who you thought he was, or who you would like him to be.
He is a cheater , a creep.
Escape!
Exactly! Very well said and 100% true.
This is almost word for word what I heard when I experienced D day May 15th, 2011. He was sorry I had found out and “sorry” that I was hurt. But he wasn’t sorry that he had cheated because 33 years of marriage was boring. He needed excitement. Over time he confessed that there had been women every year, even after 1 month of marriage. So, he got bored instantly I guess. Then he bragged, that women were so easy to come by and that the chase was the fun and conquering another person was a real turn on. Then he would drop them and move on to someone else. He said he was surprised I had never caught on. I guess we think other people are like us and so cheating isn’t something we even consider. My XH had a job where he was out in the evenings seeing clients and he worked at home during the day while I was at work. So, he had lots of opportunities and he took every one. He will never be sorry. He has had several “relationships” in the last 5 years and they have all ended (I am total NC, so I don’t know the situations, but I expect he continued to cheat and maybe they were savier and figured this out sooner). Character will always be what it is. We can only be glad we have finally escaped.
“Over time he confessed that there had been women every year, even after 1 month of marriage.”
Oh my God, he is so disgusting. Why the heck did he get married, if he was porking women left right and center, and 1 month after your marriage??!! WHY???!! He’s a walking STD and disgusting as heck. Why would he bother with relationships when he’s a whore and can’t keep it in his pants. He’s nothing but a vile animal who walks around with no conscience and only wants to have sex.
He did it for the “look” society maybe wanted a kid…very simple
I got the “Life’s too short” mantra too. These folks are always thinking the grass is greener. They are the ones chasing unicorns.
Thats exactly what asswipe said i didnt replace you i made a lateral move. What am i, a fucking football! I thought i could have a better life the grass is greener over there. Really. What an ass. He found out the grass is worse. I told him like erma bombeck said the grass is greener over the septic tank. So go live in and with shit!
Yes his lateral move was not a replacement but a complete downgrade.
They confuse replacement with escape.
The grass is greener because while they are in fantasy land with the AP they don’t have to deal with temper tantrums from toddlers or teenager, plowing snow, chopping wood, cooking dinner for the kids, engaging with the kids (which is awesome if your not the selfish type), taking care of the house and our mini – zoo of pets, the trials and tribulatuons of your spouses’ life, and so on and so on – ya know, real world stuff.
My 40-something wife found that it is much easier (and probably more fun) to abandon real life as much as possible and create a new persona and live a double life acting like a drunken teenager.
One day reality will catch up with them, I’m sure. The fantasy land they build will no longer sparkle and they’re off in search of new rainbows and unicorns, because…. Life is short, they are special, and they are entitled to be happy. They rely on others for that validation and their happiness.
To them the grass is always greener somewhere else.
Good luck with that.
The grass seems greener because they are looking at up to 20% of the grass. And when you imagine moving that little piece of sod into your own yard then you think you are happy. Until you realize you lost the house and the yard and the nice shady tree and the cute dog and the kids and someone to mow and weed and trim the rest of the yard and you end up with this rootless chunk of sod and nothing else. Then suddenly it’s not as great as you thought. If you’d just thrown a little Scott’s Turf Builder and a sprinkle of water on the patchy bits your yard would have been perfect! Instead of burning the house down, tearing out the tree and chasing the kids and dog away for a stupid patch of useless grass! GRRRRR!
Don’t bet on it, Forest.
Forest,
As I’ve said before, disordered people will count on you to hold their perfect life together. When they spin out of control, they will expect you to be waiting (as if nothing has changed) when they decide to come back. The correct answer is no.
It’s like small children who can’t quite understand that time passes while they are out of a room and expect everything to be the same when they return. But grownups don’t get a pass on that or an explanation of why. It’s not their life anymore and they weren’t gone to take a nap.
Very well said Survivor. These assholes get ahead in life, because they have a chump holding their reality together, making them look normal, and cleaning up after their shit. They are incapable of adult life. And their mask can only be upheld for so long, until it comes crashing down and their true colors come out. Most of these cheaters lives become disasters after their loving spouse is done with them, it is then we see the level of dysfunction they operate at, and it’s not pretty.
I swear, these assholes are all the same because it seems like every post applies to my experiences in some way.
I found a text conversation he forgot to delete when he passed out and the house of cards really started coming down. I asked him if he really thought all these secrets would never come out and he said yes. I asked if he was ever afraid that one of his whores would get mad and tell on him and he said he never really thought about. Okay, but what if THEY slipped up and left something on THEIR phones for their husbands and boyfriends to find? Don’t things like that ever cross your mind? He said no, which doesn’t surprise me. How far out they’ll think depends on the reward for it. He went to some pretty good lengths scoring ass and very little to protect his family. One track minds… But that’s what gets them caught.
Proof that they actually believe themselves and are so self absorbed nothing else really matters.
There’s glee for them in getting caught, to some degree, too. Part of the reason they cheat instead of leaving is that the anticipation factor in forbidden fruit is extremely arousing and makes the cheating much more intense.
Also, getting caught makes a narcissistic person feel powerful because what they view as their superiority is finally out for all to see. While you are hurting because you were duped for so long, the narcissist is feeling smart and, therefore, superior for duping such a smart person effectively for so long. Seeing you hurt is the sign that the narcissist has won the prize. Sick, huh?
“While you are hurting because you were duped for so long, the narcissist is feeling smart and, therefore, superior for duping such a smart person effectively for so long. ”
It took me a long, long time to get past the shame at how easily he fooled me over and over. Realizing how much contempt he must have felt for me, how he must have been laughing in his head at the stupid excuses I bought every time, how good he felt that he was fooling a “smart” person like me…… that was one of the worst parts of the whole nightmare.
“how he must have been laughing in his head at the stupid excuses I bought every time, how good he felt that he was fooling a “smart” person like me……”
THIS^^^^ These cheaters think they are sooo much smarter than we are, and how we’re weak and dumb, that we worship the ground they walk on. They get more and more cocky as time goes by, because we don’t enforce consequences. The more we let them get away with shitty behavior, the cockier they get. My ex was like that, making more and more ridiculous demands on me, because he thought it was a done deal with me, that I WANTED HIM and would never dump him. So he though that gave him “carte blanche” to act like an asshole and I’d take it. But he was in for a surprise, when I lowered the boom and dumped him on his ass without warning. He called me with a quivering voice saying: “but but but, I don’t know what happened”. Dumping your ass is what happened. He was so sure he was going to carry out his cheating plans to full execution and I’d happily stand by him and get screwed over.
BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ditto, Glad. Humiliating. MoFaux said he was always intimidated by professionals. I had a profession. So, he HAD to act out his self contempt by lying to me repeatedly and gleefully watching me fall for his deceptions. Then he could feel clever. Pathetic strategy. He is still intimidated by professionals and also liar. Not moving up the integrity scale.
Amiisfree – this is so true > While you are hurting because you were duped for so long, the narcissist is feeling smart and, therefore, superior for duping such a smart person effectively for so long. Seeing you hurt is the sign that the narcissist has won the prize.
Chumps are smart, capable and have loving hearts, something cheaters know nothing about. I believe cheater thought that fooling me for so long made him smarter and better than me. At times, when he revealed more affairs or information, he was indignant about it. He would say things like “she wanted me” which was hurtful to me but made him feel good. Needless to say, I let the sleazy sluts that wanted him so much have him.
Believe me, I already know and I told him I knew. The funny part, though, is watching him panic when I threatened to expose him to the world. I’ve gone into depth about that in other posts here on CL. He said that it made him feel like “the man”. I asked him why I shouldn’t let the whole world know he’s a phony and let everyone know how he’s the man and see if everyone else is as impressed with him as he is with himself and suggested we make a poll and let everyone vote on his man score. The problem is that it would be put up for vote to people who aren’t whores. Poor baby begged and pleaded. He vomited at least twice, once over the railing of our back deck and in a parking lot he had to pull into while driving because his public perception is important for his job/career and he couldn’t stand the thought of everyone knowing that he’s not what he claims to be. I reduced him down to a pebble in my shoe and I dragged it out for months and still do it now. Like I said, I’ve gone into depths in past posts.
By the way, co-cheaters feel the same way. They think that having a married man pork them proves their desirability. Otherwise, why would he stray to be with her? That’s okay, though, because I’ve destroyed his whores, too. I’ve been doing it slowly over time and I’m not done yet. Going tit-for-tat, I have MANY years worth of revenge left and I’m not stopping until I’m satisfied. I know the law and I stay within it by only telling the truth and I have plenty of proof to back it up. If any of them try to challenge me, I’ll bust out the evidence and trust me, they’d be better off conceding because the visual evidence I’d be forced to show in court if they pull the libel/slander thing would be tons more embarrassing. Whores love sending tit pics and scorned women like me love presenting them to said whores friends, parents, grandparents, siblings, coworkers, etc. How many problems do you think I’d have making it PUBLIC evidence?
They played wrecking ball with my life and my health as well as my children. Now I’m returning the favor.
Oh how I wish I had all the evidence, the sexts, the pics too. I would do exactly what you are doing. Applause to you!!
Do you hire out for your work? (Asking for a friend)
Lastinline, I like your style! Just make sure to get a decent settlement first as it could compromise the settlement. I so believe that cheaters and their cheater partners deserve to be exposed. The best disinfectant is sunlight!
Actually, be careful! Revenge porn laws and sharing of images without consent are things you really should be mindful of. Don’t lose your divorce settlement paying legal fees to ward off civil action, or at the worst, defending yourself in court if charged by the state/county for breaking the law!
It’s not worth destroying others if you destroy yourself in the process – perhaps think about getting revenge in a way that benefits you? Proving his infidelity in court, rather than destroying his career (especially if you need him to pay child support! And you want the maximum settlement, him losing his job would cut into that), providing those titty pics to the betrayed partners of the cheating women – let them face the consequences of their actions, wipe your hands, and move on knowing you got the best deal financially & managed to expose them and cause a personal reckoning that’ll hurt them way more than it could ever hurt you.
Slander is intentionally destroying someone’s reputation, isn’t it? Whereas libel is telling lies? Please, just be careful, maybe talk over your options for revenge with a lawyer first 🙂
Slander and libel at both forms of defamation. Slander is spoken, and libel is written (in simple terms).
And yes, spiting the nose right off of your own face ain’t none too bright.
Retaliate with surgical precision chumps, and consult your lawyer first!
Plus, it’s a state that still has alienation of affection and criminal conversation laws.
I say BRING IT.
Slander is verbal; libel is written. And it’s neither if it’s the truth. It has to be lies to be slander or libel and nothing I say about them is a lie and I have all the proof I need.
I know what I’m doing as far as the settlement goes. The last thing he wants is for me to go even more public with it, which is what will happen if he even tries to fight anything. I’m better at this game than he’ll ever be.
Mine was more worried about anyone finding out than being sorry as well. He has no clue that pretty much everyone knows. But down the “Fireball”, look around and see that you look more pathetic than you do studly. These guys truly think that all women want them. Please….
Fireball? Sounds more like he’s a flaming narcissist.
Good for you, LastInLine! Here’s my version of revenge- when I left, he had ‘nowhere to go’, and landed in her basement for the last three years ? She just evicted him, Oh where’s the love? He was cramping her style, I suppose. She’s a Pill-Junkie Party Girl, very cool when you’re 50.
OMG, I’m so glad I’m not part of that, and living well (you know what they say!)
Isn’t it funny when their co-cheaters jump ship?!
“….. let everyone know how he’s the man and see if everyone else is as impressed with him as he is with himself and suggested we make a poll and let everyone vote on his man score…”
This made my morning. Such a witty comeback to him feeling like he was the man!
Amiisfree
You hit the nail on the head. It took years for me to see the satisfaction he felt once I found out.
I also believe at some point he wanted to get caught. Not to get divorced but for the power and control he achieved when I forgave him.
On the final DDay he was happy to tell me he no longer had to masterbate to porn.
Anne, it took deliberation to have an affair. It’s a deal breaker. You never signed up to be the marriage police, to be exposed to STD’s, to be disrespected. Hit the eject button as he failed on so many leaves. Cheaters do not change.
^^^THIS^^^ Mr. Sparkles would just add his used up “hand towels” to the laundry pile – used up from watching porn or IM’ing with freaks on AFF. Almost as if he was rubbing my face in it as I did the laundry.
The sad thing is, I felt pity for him. He was like Gollum… jerking off in a basement to porn with/by strangers instead of engaging in the family that just one flight upstairs wanting him to be a better man and live a life that was fathoms deep in love. His loss.
Pathetic.
Am doing just like Gollum, his “precious” was pure evil, made him hideously ugly, and tortured everyone who touched it.
Yes! To all of the above. I will never forget his reaction on D-day. As I stood there shaking, barely able to breathe when I opened his tablet and all of those private messages to and from his hookers popped up and smacked me in the face… his reaction was to loudly snarl “YES I DID”! He may as well have added some fist pumps and pounding his chest for emphasis. To say I was taken aback by that reaction is an understatement.
But then the next day when he just looked at me with a smirk and said, “You had no idea”. There was pride behind that, and as Amiisfree said, there was “glee” in those words. If I hadn’t have found this site and read the books that were recommended I doubt I would have ever come to realize that he truly is mentally disordered.
He got pleasure from the deceit and the secrets, and at the same time it gave him pleasure by leaving evidence right in front of my face. Little things that I never gave a second thought to until afterwards… like all the tins of Altoids that were always in the car and practically every room, yet he hadn’t given me so much as a peck on the lips in years.
And I’m sure cheaters get great joy in chatting/sexting/ making dates , etc, while the spouse is right in the next room, or perhaps only a few feet away. They are not human.
What came first? Not his wife, not his children, not his granddaughter, or his comfortable life.
Sex with strange
Masterbatimg to porn
Drinking
Smoking weed
Getting cheap hotels
Paying his drums.
Those were his priorities.
Anne, I also asked my cheater why he cheated. His reply was the same as your cheater’s reply. ” I didn’t think I would get caught”.
They all say the same thing. It’s right out of the cheater’s handbook.
Mine also said a lot of other things, too. None of it original and certainly no truth to be found in it.
Cheater arrogance on full display. You don’t get real repentance without humility. And humble isn’t in that response.
My x also uttered these exact words which leads me to believe they all read from the devil’s bible. No creativity, the same lies and behavior so glad to no longer be attached escaping with my sanity. My x was involved with a looney tune which could have ended very bad for me. Oh and later I found he had others equally unhinged. Cheating is serious business, cervical cancer/financial ruin/stalking/child abuse get out while you can. It ford not get better.
http://www.bet.com/video/being-mary-jane/season-3/highlights/episode-308-s1.html
X never thought about std testing as shown in the link above. The character Mary Jane is an admitted ho but she insist on testing before the act. My x practiced unsafe sex. I thank God that I did not test positive.
He can give you everything in the divorce. Short of that, he’s not sorry.
“I never thought I’d get caught.”
Anne, ask yourself what would have happened if you didn’t catch him.
He would have been happy leading a double life, perhaps for years. Or engage in multiple affairs.
You can’t believe anything he says. You will get tricke truth. We love, they lie.
It never stops. It’s a cycle. Divorce him and don’t look back.
Mine said he was sorry, I think. I can’t remember now. It must not have been very genuine since his apology didn’t leave much of an impression.
I do remember that after he got caught he said he felt relieved, like a weight was lifted off his shoulders. And if the OW never outed him then there would have been things that I never would have found out. Those statements stuck with me more than his “I’m sorry.”
Now that I am two years detoxed from Mr. Sparkles, I can see how “catching and confronting” was the worst strategy of all. From the moment I challenged him about the mystery phone numbers that tracked back to Craiglist Personal ads for DDD women who required 200 roses of donation to the personal ads he was running on some might freaky sites, it became his personal mission to devalue and discard me in the most horrible ways possible – in front of my stepchildren and my son. His SORRY was probably meant something more like “Sorry, I’m now going to have make your life a living hell until you doubt your ability to breathe every day and then I’m going to leave you for the first OW that is better and will believe my lies. Not sorry.” While I pray I will never have to go through this again in my life, you can rest-assured it will be “catch and release” if I do… sorry is as sorry does.
Rock on Chump Nation.
I got the “I didn’t think I’d get caught” line too. I guess it gets easier for them to do the more they do it without us knowing — to the point they think they’re just that good.
I have a vague recollection of cheater looking like he was about to cry and seeing shame all over his face. I believe this may have been the first time he had sex with someone else. Unfortunately, I can’t remember when this happened. I’m not dwelling on it these days but if I could remember, it may tell me when his cheating first started. I can pinpoint red flags that I ignored all the way back to before we were married and he’s admitted to at least 10 years of cheating. I know it doesn’t matter when it started but it would let me to know how much of my married life was a lie. At this point, I’m guessing all of it.
And I got the meaningless “I’m sorry” too. It was never followed up with what he was sorry for or any action to support it. It was usually followed with a “but….” and some blame shifting excuse to make me responsible. Perhaps their lack of empathy = nothing to be sorry for??
In my case it was never ” because I never thought I would get caught”….although I’m sure that was one on his list.
I heard:
1. Because I didnt make him feel desired.
2. I acted like sex was a chore.
3. Because his relationship with me was “lacking”.
4. Because we both knew that we should of divorced years earlier ( after d day #1) and because HE had checked out of the marriage and assumed that I had as well even though nothing about my behavior indicated that, he was entitled to seek happiness elsewhere ( actually 4 different “elsewheres”, but okay).
5. Because I was so insecure and couldn’t let his infidelity go after the first d day. If I am going to always accuse him of cheating he might as well cheat.
Blame shift much?? Cause I’m pretty sure none of these is remorse. Kinda glad I was blessed with an unrepentant cheater. I’m so afraid I would of caved or just put up with his crap forever if he hasn’t made such a shitty exit.
This was what I heard, too. I thought you didn’t love me anymore he said, but I’ve realized that was projection. He just wanted to go looking for cheap thrills and, eventually, my replacement. I totally loved him and valued our family, and he knew that. There was lots of evidence.
This is the same laundry list of complaints that I got. Must be a chapter in “Cheating for Dummies.”
During false reconciliation ex hubs and I talked. My ex copped to “dating” married women he met online. He stated that he “only had sex twice” with one of the women that he dated for 4 years and lived with the current married ow when her husband was out of town. He stated he “thought I would never find out” because I trusted him. Ex hubs had been cheating for years when I found all of his private messages and nasty pics of his girlfriends. Yuck. There never was sorry or any remorse from him just a lot of blameshifting on how the cheating was my fault. These days he plays the sad sausage really well.
Nothing he says will show you he is sorry. It is his actions that matter. My cheater could have won an Oscar with his convincing display of remorse after D-Day. He said all the right things. But if I watched his actions, I could see the truth.
He SAID he loved me and desired me, but he never initiated any romantic or sexual contact (he was hooking up with men on Craigslist)
He kept losing jobs. He always had a great, convincing story about downsizing or a boss being “threatened” by his professional potential (He was using work resources to troll for hookups and taking long “lunches”)
I could go on and on, but you get the idea. What he SAYS doesn’t matter, it’s what he DID that counts.
Please don’t waste any more precious time on a liar. Get out quickly and start over with someone who deserves your trust. You will be SO MUCH HAPPIER. Ask me how I know. 🙂
Everything he said was a lie. That’s a game-changer. You cannot listen to anything they say. His actions demonstrated he had no real love for me and was not a decent person.
“He said all the right things. But if I watched his actions, I could see the truth.”
Exactly, the cheater’s actions scream the truth. That’s all we need to see. We mute the volume and amplify the actions, it tells us all we need to know.
Chump Lady, instead of requesting a generous post-nup to gage a cheater’s remorse, I think it would be much more effective to demand generous terms in an upcoming divorce.
If you get a cheater who doesn’t put up a fight, who puts in the work to fix their shit, and is willing to give you whatever you want (the house, the money, custody and the assets) even though they have no hope of ever winning you back, then may be you can say you’ve found a genuinely remorseful unicorn.
Love the evil Scooby Doo villain reference. Pretty much encapsulates the whole thing.
Dear Anne:
Sorry to welcome you to the club no one wants to join.
You’ve already had some great answers, but before I weigh in, let me first give you some very important advice.
1. Lawyer up!–I truly understand that you are reeling from the discovery that you’re married to a cold-blooded cheater. This is when you need to find a very good family practice lawyer. If you have children, you owe it to both you and them to do this ASAP. Find out recommendations from your friends. Interview a few. The initial consulting fee is generally much lower than their standard rates. In these interviews, find out about the process in your state, if your state is no fault, and what factors into custody/child support (if applicable). Even if you decide to try smoking the hopium pipe, at least you’ll be informed about the divorce process in your state.
2. Secure your financials.–Cheaters don’t just fuck other people, they fuck their family’s finances. Both of you contribute to the family finances. When he takes the Other Woman out to dinner, buys her gifts, treats her to weekends with breakfast in bed–he’s taking money out of the family. That’s money that could have been used for your kids, paying off the mortgage early, college tuition, or–gasp!–a nice dinner, gifts, and weekend getaways with you, his wife!
If you have access to the online accounts, start downloading the statements right away. Talk with your attorney about what you can do legally to secure your financ