I Feel Abandonment Shame

abandonment shame

Ever since his abandonment of their marriage three years ago, she feels shame. It’s hard not to take that kind of rejection personally. How do you get over it?

***

Dear Chump Lady,

I just read your piece on feeling the shame from divorce

I refuse to use the word divorced, because I never chose to break our vows.

He chose for us that our marriage was not worth anything and he abandoned it all by himself. My small support group of ladies suggested I read your book, but I didn’t think it applied since I WAS sure he didn’t cheat, but rather midlife crisis-ed himself out of our marriage.

However, I hear he is with someone now. I now am certain that this is why he felt it was okay to leave me and treat me like an old used couch that he could abandon on the side of the road.  So, your shame article hits me in the gut. 

I know that I did feel sorry for divorced couples before, because I did view it as a failure to work on a promise that you both made before God, family, and friends. However, I know that sometimes it’s not that easy to classify as a failure, often it is because one party decided to make another life choice, and didn’t want to put in the effort. 

My shame comes from being the kind of person that someone does not find worthy enough to love to make a real effort for.

I know that you have to do a lot of therapy and self-care to find enough love for yourself to realize the issue doesn’t lie with you, but with the person who left. I have read the books, listened to the podcasts, therapized myself in many different ways. 

However, he put me in the position to feel embarrassed. Like I’m a failure in front of my family and friends, work colleagues, neighbors, and former friend couples. (Not really friends, since not one of them reached out). 

How does one shake feeling like a big steaming pile of dog crap whose former life partner leaves her to pick up her self-esteem from the cold wet grass of post abandonment life? 

I do know that they say no one can make you feel anything, but I call BS on that.  He made me feel humiliated, small, and worthless for at least a year in the shockwave that followed him leaving. 

It’s been three years. I have zero contact; he’s never even attempted to look back. Can you address this feeling? 

Katg

***

Dear Katg,

You’re giving this asshat way too much power.

I refuse to use the word divorced, because I never chose to break our vows.

I refuse to use the words “climate change” because I never chose to leave the Paris Accords.

Do you see how ridiculous this sounds? I get it. You didn’t want to be divorced. You weren’t the one who left. The reality, however, is still the same — you are divorced. Just like climate change is real whether or not I feel I have any control over it.

If you don’t say divorced, what do you say? Abandoned? Like that’s BETTER? Like you want to lead with his bullshit opinion of you? Why are you giving him that power?

Or do you go around letting people think you’re married, like those absurd Standing For Your Marriage freaks? Oh, Reginald is checked out, but I remain committed! He will return to me from the weight of his sin! But if he doesn’t, my presence as His Eternal Wife shall rebuke him!

I know what you’re thinking: Tracy, why are you being so mean? I have abandonment shame.

Because I want you to reframe this as SO WHAT?

I am not minimizing the pain of abandonment. You wanted to know where all my articles are on it — here’s an entire category on the topic. I take your pain as a given. But I also want you to radically accept that his opinion of you — or others’ opinions of your marital status — doesn’t matter. Unless you let it matter. And you control that.

So, consider the healing power of So What?

He rejected me!

So what? A shallow person whose opinion you don’t respect rejected you. This is where you take an unvarnished look at who your ex is. Yes, you loved him and invested years in him. But through his actions, he’s demonstrated that he’s a vapid nitwit incapable of sustained commitment. From what you report, he didn’t ask to work on the marriage, or go to therapy, or explore ethical ways to end it. He went POOF.

Ergo, he’s a coward. Ergo, he’s not someone we respect. And ergo, he’s not someone whose opinion of your self worth should matter.

Now, factor in the great likelihood he’s also a cheater? (A year of devaluing followed by instant replacement are FW calling cards.) Consider yourself fortunate to be out.

Accept the injustice.

Look at how you think about this.

I know that you have to do a lot of therapy and self-care to find enough love for yourself to realize the issue doesn’t lie with you, but with the person who left. I have read the books, listened to the podcasts, therapized myself in many different ways. 

However, he put me in the position to feel embarrassed.

HE DID THIS.

Yes, he did. And so what is your next move?

Let him be the final word on your self-worth? YOU set that price NOT him. You’re listening to the podcasts and therapists and refusing to internalize the message, because you keep coming back to the injustice — HE DID THIS.

Yep. Uh-huh. Welcome to the Chump Nation club. A bazillion of us invested in unworthy people. Because there are a bazillion users and abusers.

Doesn’t have one thing to do with how worthy of love I am. Or you are.

Instead of believing “he rejected me because I suck”, start believing HE sucks. (Or as I say here, trust that they suck.) Sure, self examination is important and we’re not perfect people. But our faults, real or imagined, don’t give people permission to abuse us.

Like I’m a failure in front of my family and friends, work colleagues, neighbors, and former friend couples. (Not really friends, since not one of them reached out). 

Divorce isn’t failure. He bailed, so why isn’t he the failure? Look, I get that people think these stupid things, and I have devoted years of my life to a blog to counter-narrative this shit. But it really comes down to you. If you believe his rejection marks you a failure then you believe it. I think that’s profoundly stupid.

Most people are going to take their cues from you. If you act like a failure, they’re more inclined to go along with that assessment. If you behave like you’ve got nothing to be ashamed of, they might still think you suck, but they’ll probably grudgingly respect you at least. We don’t control what people think of us.

It must hurt to have something so vulnerable (abandonment, mortification, shame) be so public. So, all the more reason to cloak yourself with plucky invincibility and get on with life. Imagine your audience! You have to succeed if for no other reason than to spite the rubberneckers.

You don’t choose how you feel, but you do choose how you react.

I do know that they say no one can make you feel anything, but I call BS on that.  He made me feel humiliated, small, and worthless for at least a year in the shockwave that followed him leaving. 

Look, if I slap you, it’s going to hurt. I hurt you. Of course you feel hurt. What you choose to do next is on you. Slap me back, report me, poison my dog. I don’t know. But apply some logic here.

He hurt you by leaving. Now what? What next? Stop analyzing your feelings about it (not much to analyze, it hurt like a motherfucker), focus on actions instead.

He made me feel humiliated.

Internal script: He’s a fuckwit. Why should I feel humiliated? I was a faithful partner and willing to work on the marriage. Why should I feel like a failure when he’s the one who bailed? His opinion of me doesn’t change me. He’s not that powerful.

Action: Be mighty. Go focus on the parts of your life where you have agency. Your career, art, parenting. Anything else that’s not him.

He made me feel small.

Internal script: I have power and agency. No one can make me feel small.

Action: Be mighty. Go kick something at the gym. Help someone less fortunate. Be generous. You’re big-hearted.

He made me feel worthless.

Internal script: My marital status says absolutely nothing about my self worth. I will examine all the patriarchal bullshit I was fed that led me to think that. I don’t have a husband, so what? I don’t have hemorrhoids either.

Action: Nothing. You have worth, you just have to recognize it.

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jahmonwildflower
jahmonwildflower
6 months ago

I am sorry you are here. Here is a thougt to consider…I heard this first from an attorney who works w/women who are leaving their FWs. It sounds odd at first, but I am glad he chose these pieces of garbage. I am educated, classy, fit, trim, pretty, sucessful and healthy. Well-traveled, multi-lingual, lots of friends. He didn’t want any of that. He spent decades chasing alcoholic, unattractive, infected losers that no one wanted. He consistetly cheated with the lowest of the low, and as the years went on, he sank deeper and deeper to the bottom of the barrel. It is a badge of honor to not be wanted by someone who values that trash. I was too fit! I couldn’t (wouldn’t) drink enough alcohol! I didn’t want to go to gay bars! I hadn’t had sex with enough men in my life! I hadn’t even had an STD! And so on…No one wants to be that sort of person. But that is what he pursued for decades. I am so, so glad to be away from all that perversity. You are not low enough and that is a good thing. Be glad you are you and go out and live a good life. You really do not want or need that sort of person in your life. Best wishes for a better future.

Best Thing
Best Thing
6 months ago

In the comments section a few columns back, Chumpasaurus45 wrote: They’re not looking for someone better than you are, they’re looking for someone worse than they are. I think this hits the nail on the head. It sounds strange until you consider that these narcs are threatened by an accomplished, intelligent, secure person like you. My guess is your FW could not feel superior to you, maybe not even equal, so he had to go out looking for someone to dominate. Just a guess.

Elsie_
Elsie_
6 months ago

Yes, it took me awhile to grasp that my ex preferred women way different than I am, so why would I even try to compete? He liked showy, promiscuous women, But would they stick around like I did? Would they raise his children and nurse him through medical problems? He didn’t value that and told me so after he left. OK, you shouldn’t be married if that’s not your thing.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Elsie_

Get out your popcorn because you haven’t seen acts 3 and 4 yet. Sometimes they like sleazy grifters. Then they get burned because rough trade is rough and they boomerang back to wholesome as if seeking asylum. But then the delusion wears off that the new wholesome supply will magically inspire them to better themselves like Cindy Lou Who melting the green heart of the Grinch, they become tired of feeling like constant scumbags and wearing masks and long to let their freak flags fly high again so it’s back to fingerless lace gloves, black rubber lingerie, drug-resistant infections and getting fleeced. Rinse, repeat.

Elsie_
Elsie_
6 months ago

Yes, I always warn people in our situation about that. You have to remain strongly centered in the world of “never again” while they play out what little currency they have left. My attorney, best friend, and my college kids all made me promise that I put up a wall that would never come down post-divorce.

From what little I know, he’s very “occupied” and happy enough with pretending that we don’t exist, but you never know.

Last edited 6 months ago by Elsie_
Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Elsie_

“From what little I know, he’s very ‘occupied’ and happy enough with pretending that we don’t exist, but you never know.”

With all my heart I hope he remains “occupied” because that would be a novel stroke of luck. But chances are that when his current distractions sour as all romantic pursuits of FWs eventually do (particularly when they’re in their sleaze phases), he’ll do the usual switcheroo, decide to boomerang back to “healthy and wholesome” and either show up like a creepy bad penny at your door or else target some ethical clone of you.

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
6 months ago

I’ll admit that when I was young and idealistic I saw Divorce as a failure of some sort. It was only when I was exposed to Ex-Mrs LFTT’s f*ckery in all of its flavours that I saw it for what it was …. the only means that I had at my disposal to protect myself (and our 3 kids) from the consequences of Ex-Mrs LFTT’s unilateral decisions. By getting a “Clean Break” divorce I put myself in a position of not having to underwrite (financially, emotionally and legally) her BS any more.

And as for realising that I was “not worthy of her love” because she chose to be with someone else (via some Olympic level monkey-branching), I’ll admit that hurt …. right up to the point that I realised that it said far more about her judgement (her AP is, by all accounts, an utter loser) than it does about any of my own shortcomings.

I guess that – as in all things – both time and perspective are important.

LFTT

GoodFriend
GoodFriend
6 months ago

You could ask the friends who pushed you to read LACGAL if they knew or suspected he was cheating. It’s hard to tell, but maybe he had enough respect for you to end the marriage before he moved on, which is actually what most of us would have preferred. He took the power from you in deciding to end things, but if he wasn’t committed, it’s likely that things would have devolved to a loveless marriage or worse.

Tracy wrote, “If you act like a failure, they’re more inclined to go with that assessment.” Very true.

As a sidenote to readers who have not yet filed, I take pride in knowing that I divorced him. I like being able to tell people that I divorced him because we didn’t share the same values. Although he rejected me first, he has to live with knowing that I made the first legal move and I didn’t want him back.

Tracy and many readers have mentioned that cheaters dump the messy work of filing on chumps. I’m glad I found LACGAL and Chump Nation, and filed first. I can know and say I’m mighty for doing so.

thelongrun
thelongrun
6 months ago
Reply to  GoodFriend

Good friend, I’m with you. I guess, like you, I can say I was mighty for filing for divorce against the FW XW first.

I was a complete mess at the time. It was around six to nine months (memory is blurry at this point) after D-day, and I felt awful every day.

At the time I got a lawyer (I think around the six month mark post D-day), I told the FW XW that I was getting a lawyer not to do harm to her, but to protect ME. This was right before I discovered CL and LACGAL.

My FW XW is better than most at hiding her fuckwittery (especially now), but if you look hard enough, you can still see it in her actions. And in the first six months after D-day? She was fully playing her narcissistic, unilaterally abandoning husband and marriage role.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, indeed!🤬

Best wishes to you, GoodFriend, and may you go to infinity, and beyond!😁 May we all do that in the wake of our awful ex-spouses/partners.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
6 months ago
Reply to  GoodFriend

Re: filing first, yes, it is comforting to know that I’m the one that rejected him! He’d already been dumped by AP and begged me not to divorce him. I’m proud that I’m divorced. The only embarrassing thing is I didn’t do it sooner.

Last edited 6 months ago by Dontfeellikedancin
One last time
One last time
6 months ago
Reply to  GoodFriend

Same story here. My FW emotionally checked out long ago. I thought holding onto the marriage, at almost any cost was worth it. She finally decided that our vows were meaningless. She claims she was ‘just living her life, and the affair just happened.” Its easy for those kinds of things to happen when there is no commitment there.
And yes, I too got the joy of being the one to file for the divorce that she had wanted for a while, but didn’t have the courage or character to file for.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  One last time

“It’s easy for those kinds of things to happen when there is no commitment there.”

I’m sure you’d agree it’s not just lack of commitment that makes this “easy” for some people but lack of character. I’m sure we’ve all experienced waning interest in past dating relationships especially as capricious young turnips. But the answer there is to leave ethically instead of monkey-branching. I also think it’s plain old common sense because only complete dirtbags would ever knowingly take up with a still-married or still-committed person, not to mention complete idiots because who would ever trust a married or committed person who would monkeybranch? It’s the same reason why corporations never really trust or invest in employees they poach from other companies and why employees who let themselves get poaced shouldn’t expect it.

Best Thing
Best Thing
6 months ago
Reply to  One last time

What she meant was “I was just living my life, with nary a thought for you, and the affair just happened.” Same with my FW who claimed it was not intentional, but an accident. OIC. You were both naked in the office, running from different directions to answer the phone and you happened to collide in front of the reception desk and whoopsie! It was an accident.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
6 months ago
Reply to  Best Thing

This scenario has me cracking up 😂

Best Thing
Best Thing
6 months ago

Yes, pickle finds pocket but how?? I can’t figure it out

Perdita
Perdita
6 months ago

My shame comes from being the kind of person that someone does not find worthy enough to love

Yes! That’s it exactly! My ex-husband often told me that he had high standards and I just didn’t meet them.

It’s easy to say that he didn’t meet *my* standards. But hard to make myself believe that when I loved him so much.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
6 months ago
Reply to  Perdita

I’m sorry he said that to you…

Seriously though who goes around saying that shit? “I have high standards.” Lah-di-dah. Your stick, Mr. Fancypants. Would you like some help shoving up your ass?

You shouldn’t want to meet his puffed up excuse for “standards.” He sounds like a twat.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
6 months ago

*shoving it

P S Perdita, love your name!! You, unlike the FW, sound very classy.

Last edited 6 months ago by Dontfeellikedancin
Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Perdita

Maybe you loved the mask he first presented to you. Clinical studies of domestic abusers in prison settings found that abusers tend to channel far more psychic energy into image management– i.e., fakery– than average. Even abusers of average intelligence were found to be alarmingly skilled liars who presented convincing fronts. But, as his mask began to drop, I would argue that you could not have continued genuinely loving him because abusers are fundamentally unlovable.

That’s not to suggest that you’re some kind of dishonest love-faker but that you may have been experiencing Stockholm syndrome/captor bonding. Stockholm syndrome/captor bonding is typically experienced by victims as “real love” because, probably since the dawn of time, abusers tend to be telepathic in detecting even the most subtle signs of rebellion in their prey. So, in order to successfully promote survival, victims’ love/loyalty has to appear 100% genuine and heartfelt. That’s only possible if victims deeply believe the ruse themselves.

Last edited 6 months ago by Hell of a Chump
OHFFS
OHFFS
6 months ago
Reply to  Perdita

Remember that love is not always wise. People act as if it was, as if the mere fact that you love a person somehow confers worth onto that person. It’s not true.

There’s a quote from Othello that fits here;

“Speak of me as I am; nothing extenuate,
Nor set down aught in malice.
Then must you speak of one that lov’d not wisely but too well.”

You loved him unwisely and too well. He didn’t deserve it.

Fuck a bunch of cheaters and their “standards” anyway. If it was about objectively high standards, why do they always downgrade? So no, it’s the opposite. It’s that we didn’t meet their low standards. We weren’t shallow and narcissistic enough. They wanted to be with kindred spirits. To them, those are high standards only because they admire other losers like themselves.

FYI_
FYI_
6 months ago
Reply to  Perdita

If you didn’t meet his high standards, then why did he marry you?

Seriously, this acceptance of an utter fuckwit’s opinions — on anything — just burns me up, especially when the FW is clearly brainwashing the chump.

One of the biggest lightbulb moments of my life was when a therapist said to me: “It’s not your shame.” In other words, he was depositing it on me, foisting it on me. It wasn’t coming from me, and it wasn’t mine.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  FYI_

I think what you’re writing about relates to the “projective identification” thing that most rape survivors suffer from following victimization where they sort of internalize the guilt, shame and sense of being “tainted” that perpetrators refuse to feel.

Projective identification is a bit of an abstract concept and has many interpretations, some of which sound like psychobabble drivel. When applied to rape survivors, I think it used to be believed that victims just sort of do this– reactively feel shame– as part of trauma or due to cultural beliefs surrounding sex and gender but, otherwise, there was no specific or consistently identifiable intent on the part of perpetrators to “make” victims feel this way.

But then I read a few interesting papers where that assumption was questioned and which suggested that victims are actually responding to a very specific if not always openly stated intent on the part of perpetrators to displace feelings of shame, taint, etc. Researchers proposed that perpetrators are, in fact, essentially trying to rob victims of their own identities and seeking to insert another identity in its place– one which, among other things, “deserved” the crimes against them.

If you think about it, it actually seems kind of elemental. Sexual assault is a type of punishment and perpetrators are, in effect, playing judge, jury and executioner by doling out this punishment. And there’s an automatic tendency for someone who’s just been punished to wonder what they did wrong which can read as “shame.”

But most rape isn’t stranger rape and is usually performed by people known to victims, often in domestic abuse contexts. And abuse is where the campaign of abusers to deliberately induce “projective identification” in victims is far more obvious so it’s a good thing that, at long last, researchers are starting to both associate projective identification with domestic violence and furthermore describe it not merely as a “reaction” by victims but as an “action” that perpetrators are doing to victims. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225265456_Projective_Identification_as_a_Contributor_to_Domestic_Violence

By constantly blaming and shaming, abusers may be literally trying to inject their own shame and stigma into their victims. Reading this made me realize that it may not only be the shame and stigma that are being purposefully displaced but also the despair, depression, insecurity, jealousy or even suicidal ideation that abuse survivors may experience in the wake of abuse and betrayal. In other words, abuse– like rape– in a brutal and twisted way, is an attempt by abusers to make victims feel all the denied and buried feelings the abuser refuses to acknowledge and experience. It could be seen as a very sick manner of making others “walk in their shoes” and “relate” to them or as a way to pass a hot potato of bad feelings to another person as if this would somehow rid the perpetrator of them (or both).

Whatever the case, I thought it was helpful to realize that many of the terrible, sometimes confusing feelings that survivors experience aren’t rally survivors’ genuine emotions but more like an emotional STD they’ve been forcibly infected with which will fade with a proverbial depth charge of antibiotics (i.e, recovering and regaining their own perspectives and identities).

Last edited 6 months ago by Hell of a Chump
Amelia
Amelia
6 months ago
Reply to  Perdita

I believe when healthy people love, the person they love automatically meets their standards (even if, objectively speaking, nobody is perfect, of course). This can sometimes cause negative consequences if it means tolerating abuse or other unacceptable behaviors, incongruent values or general incompatibility, but it is generally part of what love is all about. It is, however, a defining characteristic of many toxic people to always make us jump through hoops due to their (purported) “high standards”.

FYI_
FYI_
6 months ago

Most people are going to take their cues from you. 

This is perhaps not comforting to the LW right now, but it is absolutely true. If you believe you are worthy, proud of yourself, dignified, a catch — then others will believe it also. Next question is — how to believe that? One good first step is to believe what we are saying at least. His behavior is no reflection on you at all. It’s not that you’re that “kind of person that someone does not find worthy enough to love.” It’s that he’s an idiot. No, really.

What do you have or do that you are proud of? Start there and work your way up and out of these very limiting beliefs.

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
6 months ago

It took a long time for my head and heart to synch, for my self esteem to be restored to sanity.

Visuals are a great help.

Post DDay, I happened upon a news story about a woman who was caught on CCTV abandoning a little white three legged dog. She pulled over. Two dogs got out, a large black dog and the little white dog with only three legs. The little white dog was trying to get back in the car. She cruelly pushed him away a couple of times, helped in the large black dog, and drove away. What I saw was a horrible person. I felt sorry for the black dog and while heartbroken for the little white dog, I was GLAD that he was not in her so-called care anymore. The little white dog was rescued by caring people.

As the chump, remember YOU are the little white dog. And IMHO, anyone who wants someone who would stab their committed partner and their own children in the back is trash that the side piece deserves.

Tornup
Tornup
6 months ago

After 29 1/2 years of marriage my now XH asked for s divorce without ever telling me prior that anything was wrong with our marriage. However, a decade of his depression and withdrawal from the relationship that I excuses due to the death of our daughter.

He spent those 10 years having multiple EA’s and still not sure how many were PA’s as he did have a medically proven ED issue. Either way, what I found most helpful was to accept that who I thought he was and who he is now is not the same.

With that, it’s also a painful realization. If they aren’t who you thought they were then who you loved no longer exists. I believe thats why we hold on so hard. We dont want to accept that, because that is a deeper pain. A death. However, it is truly the way to healing and acceptance.

Also, I do not hide what he did. If someone asks. I tell. His materialistic OWife flaunts her stupidity. She is in every way lesser. People see it. So, all the people who knew us see it and it vindicates me in everyway.

Just know that you step away and let them sink their own life. We were a highly respected family in our community who gave back and volunteered. Now, I just do. They see his absence and they see me still carrying on.

Be you!!! You are good enough! You are more than good enough!! You were too good for him!! He couldn’t handle not being good enough for you. That really where it lies.

Adelante
Adelante
6 months ago

Seven years after I left my now-ex I still occasionally have to fight the feeling that can surface that my ex’s actions somehow prove that I am faulty. I think at some level I just can’t believe that everything I did for him counted for nothing, so I feel that his rejection of me is a result of my failure: clearly I didn’t do enough, or just plain wasn’t enough. Over the course of our marriage, I took on more and more of the domestic work. I anticipated what he wanted or how he would react and tailored my behavior to conform to that without his even having to verbalize it. I labored under, and let pass, and internalized, his characterization of me as “difficult.” After D-day, I abased myself with my naked pick-me dancing, even taking the lead on actions that I now can’t believe I engaged in, and the shame I feel over that can feel like yet another indication that there is something wrong with me, so I blame myself for being faulty. Bottom line: faulty in my actions, faulty in myself. To free myself from this self-administered inner knock-down is proving to take much more than I had thought or hoped it would. I tell myself that what I’m trying to free myself from took my entire childhood and forty years in a relationship with my now-ex to develop. Of course those feelings are deep-rooted and tenacious.

I know rationally that the roots of these feelings lie with my FOO, and that the warping of my sense of self and the patterns I acquired in my FOO also characterize the dynamic of my married life with my now-ex, who exploited those feelings and patterns for his own benefit and self-aggrandizement. I know rationally that my now-ex’s actions, his warped sexuality, and his disordered character and personality are the reason our marriage foundered. I wasn’t perfect, but nothing I could ever have done, no action I could have taken, would ever have “fixed” the problem. My rational understanding, however, has yet to completely overcome my emotional response.

Chump Lady’s analyses, her cleverly worded shorthand maxims like “Trust that he sucks” and her admonition of “No contact,” as well as the wisdom of Chump Nation, have been essential to the healing I’ve been able to do, and are the reasons I still check in daily.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Adelante

I don’t think adult partners of abusers can ever really compete for dominance with the toxic parent or role model who originally betrayed them and turned them into abusers.

I have a sense that’s how they came to believe that betrayal is the thing that establishes superior status and value in all relationships: whoever delivered the first fatal blow. “Kill or be killed.” So if we didn’t preemptively betray and reject them, this only proved that we weren’t worthy and neither was our love or commitment.

Imagine what a depressing, barren, nihilistic hell it must be to have that perspective: “Anyone who loves me is dirt; anyone who treats me badly must have value.”

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
6 months ago

PS..

I have gotten a lot of encouragement and strength to keep going from the story of Maria Shriver.

My former so-called husband did not get the trusted housekeeper pregnant. I am not a public figure. I thank God I was spared those complications. If Maria can keep going, I can.

I happened upon a news story about Maria the other day. She will be in town on a book tour speaking with Annie Lamott, an acquaintance of mine. I did not hear about the speaking engagement in time to get tickets and I am so disappointed!

It helps me to remember that there are legions of people, all over the world, who have been through this, who are going through this, and who will be going through this. There are millions of people at this very moment whose lives are being nuked. It’s been an important part of my recovery to be there to help others going through this, to be there for those who will be going through this. It’s why I am here, seven years post DDay. We all need each other. If you were a faithful partner, you are not the bad guy/gal. If you were not a side piece, you are not the bad guy/gal. THEY ARE.

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
6 months ago
Reply to  Velvet Hammer

“SHAME MUST CHANGE SIDES.”

– Gisele Pelicot

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
6 months ago
Reply to  Velvet Hammer

❤️

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
6 months ago
Reply to  Velvet Hammer
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
6 months ago

dear katg,

he lied to you for years, about who he was and how he felt about life. he’s a liar. these are the facts. i suggest you stick to the facts.

the facts are that he’s a person with little to no integrity. no communication with you regarding how he felt in the marriage? the obvious affair? he’s a low quality person.

you tell the truth and cannot understand that people lie. i mean, you understand it on an intellectual level, who doesn’t? but you don’t really get it and that’s a good thing. truthful people have integrity.

in time you will notice just how many marriages around you show indications of strain and unhappiness. that one person is controlling the other. and you’ll start to feel great because you don’t have that nonsense anymore. you live life on your own terms and no one is telling you what to do anymore. that’s worth a lot, katg.

as for shame, us women have been taught to be dutiful and stay with bad situations, no matter what. even if it doesn’t make sense; even if they’re dangerous; even if our partners are hateful.

it takes a long time to challenge the dutiful daughter inside and properly look out for the resilient woman you are, so keep going until you do. and take up kick boxing, or burn something symbolic in the fire pit in the backyard–I love a good burn.

in solidarity,
#damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster

2xchump
2xchump
6 months ago

Im so sorry Katg but here’s the scoop…..So I carried a bag of manure on my shoulders for the 17 out of the 32 years we were together. I sprayed this bag of cow crap with flower essence and frosted it with butter cream. One day the sack jumped off my back and said it was done with me. The one who carried and sprayed and frosted. As it hopped away, the contents spilled out and I knew then what it was..and the smell was no longer hidden. Friends, family, church, mentioned they thought the sack of Cow manure was frosted flowers and why didn’t I carry it longer? I knew different now, I saw, I smelled, I knew. You cannot unsmell…So know your truth Katg and hold yourself firmly with care and compassion. Those voices that speak to you in your head or outloud, lie. Use a strainer and take the love leave the shame. Hold your head up. I’m proud both my cheaters decided they stunk so badly they could no longer contaminate me with their disgusting behavior. I’m grateful they saw me as worth leaving. My value was too high for them and I condemned them with my innocence and TRUST. I am more grateful by the Day. Set boundaries to protect your heart from awful condemning people who say stupid things. Follow the light to those who are proud of you. Carry yourself as a queen, regal, royal, not deserving of such gross disrespect. Go find the beauty inside that was covered by frosted manure. Go and thrive. That’s the best revenge.

Elsie_
Elsie_
6 months ago

I think the abandonment was one of the hardest parts to deal with. He even flipped it on me, claiming that he HAD to leave and that I should be more concerned about HIS suffering than my own. While he was going out to restaurants and hitting the beach, I was dealing with college kids who hated me, questions from our long-term church, and trying to get my head around what had happened. Although I couldn’t admit it at first, it was a bit of relief that he was gone. The lead-up to that situation had been horribly mind-blowing. He had been a challenging, even exhausting, husband for a long time.

What helped me rework it all was a new set of friends who had never met him who gave me honest, caring feedback. Sure, therapy helped, but having a friend say, “You are such a kind, insightful person. You deserve so much more than your ex gave you.” My older friends who had known us both never said anything close to that. Interesting.

I’ve talked before in this space about my attorney, who sometimes said things like a therapist would and who offered me hugs. I mean, who hugs their divorce attorney? I did. Late in the negotiations, he would say, “You don’t deserve this. I’m fighting for you.” My closure came when the two attorneys decided that I was a saint for having been married to my STBX for so long. His attorney very much figured out who-was-who and decided that his client was a delusional mess and one of the worst people he had ever represented. That said a lot, coming from a divorce attorney.

dracaena
dracaena
6 months ago

Hi, Chump Nation, what’s your take on the saying “You can’t abandon an adult?” I heard it recently and it really stuck in my craw.

dracaena
dracaena
6 months ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yeah, I can think of a lot of adults who can’t reasonably support themselves.

I suppose the saying makes sense if you’re offering support to someone who has to cope with a dysfunctional loved one who sees everything as potential abandonment, or someone who is leaving a dangerous person. Maybe that’s where the saying was coined.

But I feel like this has become therapy speak for “do whatever, nobody owes anybody anything.” If I had thought that were true, I would not have chosen to get married, make sacrifices for my ex-FW’s career, or have kids. I would have made a pile of money as soon as possible and told everyone around me to pound sand.

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
6 months ago
Reply to  dracaena

Verb: abandon
|u’ban‑dun|
Forsake, leave behind • We abandoned the old car in the empty parking lot
Give up with the intent of never claiming again • Abandon your life to God
= give up
Leave behind empty; move out of • You must abandon your office by tonight
= empty, vacate
Stop maintaining or insisting on ideas or claims • He abandoned the thought of asking for her hand in marriage
= give up
Leave someone who needs or counts on you; leave in the lurch • The mother abandoned her children
= desert, desolate, forsake

Yes, you can. Just because someone says it does not mean it’s true. Whoever coined this really put the idiot in idiom.

Yes, unlike a baby or a child, an adult human can physically survive if abandoned, but this boneheaded statement miserably fails to take emotions and bonding other psychological aspects of a connection with another person into account. JFC.

Doctors used to claim smoking was healthy, too. And appeared in print ads promoting it.

Last edited 6 months ago by Velvet Hammer
Elsie_
Elsie_
6 months ago
Reply to  dracaena

I don’t agree. There’s a certain amount of chaos they leave behind that just isn’t right.

I’ve often said that if my ex had been decent about it, he would have said, “I’m done with marriage and family and am leaving to go live at the beach. I will do whatever is needed to help you with the transition and will be 100% fair in the divorce. I value what we had together, but it’s over.”

Never, ever in a million years with my ex.

FYI_
FYI_
6 months ago
Reply to  dracaena

Well, often cheaters do abandon the children.

Anyway, messing about with semantics is a tool in the cheater toolbox. If they don’t like the word “abandoned,” then how about “betrayed,” “screwed over,” “ruined financially,” “devastated?”

OHFFS
OHFFS
6 months ago
Reply to  dracaena

In a relationship, there is always emotional and financial interdependence. So when you just up and leave somebody, he/she is left foundering and has to find new ways to get those emotional and financial needs met. It’s terribly stressful. So of course it’s abandonment. If you don’t want to be with somebody anymore, the decent thing to do is to help your partner to make those changes before you leave. He/she may need to find new housing and a new source of income. The emotional bond should also be severed gradually so it’s not such a shock to the system.
Whoever told you that you can’t abandon an adult is either not very bright or has very little relationship experience. Or the person could just be a FW trying to rationalize.

Last edited 6 months ago by OHFFS
JeffWashington
JeffWashington
6 months ago

I get it. And I’m sorry.

I am all for a good reframe-do it professionally, it happens!

I have my own share of shame and self-doubt associated with getting abandoned/chosen over/moved on from by my fuckwit. It sucks, it really does. It keeps a lot of that trauma on life support, that’s for damned sure.

Here is the reframe that I used.

I wasn’t abandoned. I was betrayed.

Sounds like you were, too.

You have already identified half of the issue here-that your fuckwit(who betrayed you) behaved in such a way that made you feel inadequate, small, “less than.” While we are reframing things, that behavior is called abuse.

I have been working in mental health for…odds bodkins, almost 19 years now. Abuse is never the fault of the victim (that’s you and me and pretty much everybody reading this.) None of us deserved any of this. You weren’t a perfect partner. I wasn’t either. Hell, none of us were. We’re not supposed to be. That did not give the people that we loved license to hurt us intentionally.

So hear me out-is this somebody whose opinion should matter to you? I submit to you not.

Just because we picked idiots doesn’t mean that we’re also idiots.

Make no mistake-I spent a long time (and to a small extent, still do) putting far too much of my identity into my “marriage” to that idiot. I put a lot into her validating my existence and my self-worth-and yes-all of that took a ginormous hit when she left me for my downgrade. The further I get from D-Day the more I realize that it says nothing about me that I was betrayed other than that it happened. We did what we were supposed to do in loving and honoring these people. We got duped. Conned! Hoodwinked! Bamboozled!

You are a worthwhile, incredible, strong individual. Maybe he’s not saying it, but I just met you-and I’m saying it.

So I implore you-stop the pain shopping-go full no-contact. Block him on everything. No insight or contact means no new hurt. And you’ve been through enough. It took me seeing a social media picture of mine with another man to give me the strength to sever the rest of the ties. You deserve wayyyy better than to punish yourself for HIS fuck-up. That’s all on him and the day will come when it will burn him. He hurt you more than anybody could ever hurt you. He lost his “you” privileges. If he is going to live in your head, you best start charging rent-otherwise evict that prick.

I’m moving on. It’s…challenging to say the least. But enough distance and support and therapy has taught me that I’d rather be a survivor than that idiot’s victim anymore.

You got this!

Have a Mighty Monday!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  JeffWashington

Beautifully put and I love it. Duped. Conned! Hoodwinked! Bamboozled!

In the words of the bard– yep.

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
6 months ago
Reply to  JeffWashington

Jeff, you took the words out of my mouth! And I thank you for them. Using the right words make all the difference, and your posts are always major healing balm and words to remember. Like the little white dog, I am deeply sorry that your heart was broken, but GLAD you are no longer with Creepella Gruesome.

Elsie_
Elsie_
6 months ago
Reply to  JeffWashington

Along with all the horrors that I experienced during my marriage and the legal process, the bottom line was that my ex’s attitudes and behaviors were not consistent with the survival of the marriage and the emotional health of our children. That was reality, and I had to end the denial.

While I certainly had my faults, his choices shattered and burned down what we had. It was insane to think we could ever reconcile. Even his own attorney told mine late in the negotiations that I seemed like a thoroughly decent person who deserved a better life apart from his client.

And although I don’t know the details about how my ex is doing, I believe that my life is indeed so much better post-divorce.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Elsie_

Yeah, what are you’re big faults, Elsie? That time you you almost, kind of snapped at a telemarketer who woke you up from a nap when one of your children was teething and you hadn’t slept in a week? Or that time you were in a terrible hurry and parallel parked in a space that left too little room for the truck behind you to easily to get out? And then paid penance for both gestures by feeling bad for weeks? What a criminal mastermind. 😉

Elsie_
Elsie_
6 months ago

Exactly. All ordinary, human failures that have no long-term impact.

But reciting my “big” faults to his attorney apparently made an impression because not long after that, he asked mine, “So what is Elsie like?”

When relating this story, my attorney said he was very careful not to reveal much. He said that I was a model client, respectful and polite to everyone in his firm, and very responsive. Given that my attorney specialized in high-conflict divorce, he said that it was very easy to represent me in the scheme of things.

That pretty much cleared the logjam. His attorney knew who-was-who and became far less bombastic and more focused on settlement.

OHFFS
OHFFS
6 months ago

It is indeed b.s. to say that nobody can make you feel anything, because obviously people can hurt you very deeply. However, the feelings of shame and worthlessness about a breakup are on the chump, as they arise from pre-existing notions that to be left is a failure on the part of the person who is left. The self blame is our own. The FW didn’t make us feel that way. They certainly may have tried (and usually do) by heaping blame on us, but that doesn’t work unless some part of the chump believes that we cause other people to treat us they way they do.

The OP has some old fashioned notions about marriage, as she admits to believing that unless one person unilaterally decides to leave, divorce is a failure of the parties involved.

She says; “However, I know that sometimes it’s not that easy to classify as a failure, often it is because one party decided to make another life choice, and didn’t want to put in the effort.”

This indicates to me a belief that divorce for any other reason than being cheated on and/or abandoned represents a personal failure.
What if both parties find, for example, that they want to live diametrically opposing lifestyles and/or have a clash of values? What if they simply made a mistake, married in haste and found out they don’t really love each other? These are good reasons to call it quits and to do so does not represent a personal failure. Sometimes things just don’t work out, no matter how hard you try. Most importantly, what about abuse? It certainly isn’t a failure if a marriage ends because of that.
So IMO if Katg does some soul searching to rethink her seemingly rigid attitudes about marriage, she’ll probably find that the shame and low self worth she is dealing with are no longer an issue.

I never felt those things because I never had the belief that we cause others to mistreat us or that it’s shameful to be divorced. Chumps need to give themselves a break and stop internalizing the stupid ideas being fostered by the RIC and religious institutions. The bottom line is that we are only to blame for the things we do, not what others do. We need only be ashamed of our own misdeeds, not the misdeeds others do which hurt us. Hurt= normal adaptive response. Shame= maladaptive response. Humiliation is somewhat different than shame because it includes feeling that we have been made to look the fool of in the eyes of others. This is accurate, because others do look upon chumps with condescending pity and think we were foolish not to know. So I would say some degree of humiliation is a normal response as well, at least at first. The way to conquer that is to decide not to give a rat’s patootie what those people think. All of these changes can be mastered, but it requires altering ingrained attitudes you have likely held most of your life. I think that is a crucial task in getting to meh. We can’t change FWs and we can’t change the attitudes others have about us. The only option left is to challenge our cognitive biases about relationships and our own worth and work to change them. I hope Katg can do that.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago

Dear Katg,

I agree with CL’s suggestion that it’s hardly insulting to be rejected by a creep. It means he didn’t see himself in you. Yay!

But that’s the issue, right? You haven’t yet squarely identified this guy as a creep. And an abuser. But I think that’s one of the most important and healing perspective shifts for survivors of this kind of traumatic betrayal– to understand that cheating is nothing more than domestic abuse and abusers are a species of bully. As CL mentioned, we all know this runs counter to a lot of the current media spin which seems desperate to frame cheating as some kind of “rebellion” against the shackles of monogamy or “unsatisfying relationships” blah blah. But from a purely rational perspective, this is complete idiocy. Cheaters rob their partners of consent, often literally raping them by deception (a legal perspective that’s gaining traction), often endangering health and embezzling joint assets. All of this is categorical abuse according to official definitions and completely unnecessary as CL points out because cheaters had every other option to leave in a respectful and non-abusive manner. So, in short, cheaters are abusers, bullies and creeps. Full stop.

Another important and healing realization is that, even though it sucks that, by being abused, you were tricked and drafted into a standoff between decency vs. creepiness that you never willingly signed up for and didn’t deserve, you have now joined the legions on the better side of the war. Once you understand that, you will also be on the winning side of the war.

Bear with me while I try to grind this idea down to a really, really fine point. As a kid, I was brutally bullied for several years after my parents escaped the big city for the supposedly safer burbs. Classic story– I was different, didn’t fit in and eventually proved that was a good thing. All the same, it did suck for awhile when I was a kid though now I consider the experience very lucky because it was an early object lesson of how people fabricate an illusory sense of superiority by being the “deciders” and “rejectors” and how time eventually exposes this as a total sham.

Even before the end of high school, it was already apparent that not one of these bullies were going to distinguish themselves in any meaningful way and that the high point of their depressing little lives was that brief time of “glory” in primary school when they felt above it all and powerful by excluding, harming and putting others down.

It’s actually kind of sad if you think about it. In retrospect, it seems axiomatic that bullying, callousness and cruelty are probably responses to a deep sense of worthlessness but it’s the bullying and cruelty that really fulfill the prophesy and make that worthlessness actual.

Even when people like that grow up to achieve some kind of material success or rise to power, if you could see their lives up close (as I have many times in my travels), you would realize that they exist in a kind of hell-scape where their artificially inflated senses of self keep perpetually leaking and sagging and causing crises of rage and despair which they take out on others around them. They interminably have to puff themselves back up through more exploitation, domination or aggression until their personal lives become wastelands populated only by users and hostages. Then they can never loosen their iron grip of intimidation and deception over others for fear their lackeys and hostages will turn on them like crazed jackels and tear them apart.

This is another reason why I thank my lucky stars not to be accepted by people like this: because the price of inclusion and to avoid victimization by that type is that you will ultimately be required to participate in their cruelty, thus losing even the consolation of being decent, kind and ethical– i.e., the only thing that makes human beings actually human and valuable.

So as CL implied there’s nothing more flattering than being excluded and targeted by a bully because, maybe before you even realized what they were, they saw your lack of capacity to be like them. To quote FDR, “Judge me by the enemies I have made.”

Because it seems you were in the dark about your ex’s cheating for a long time, I think you may have missed the above object lesson– that he was nothing more than a creep and a bully who inflated his own pathetic sense of self worth by abusing, conning, deceiving, exploiting and ganging up on someone else. The problem now is that you actually fell for the school yard ruse and illusion and believe it says something bad about you that you were rejected by a creep.

I’m sure that, like most creeps, your ex pretended to be someone else for a long time though I’m also sure that mask started to drop in stages leading up to his cheating and abandonment. Because FWs are all the same, he probably became cold, critical and undermining if not overtly abusive in the year or so before he bailed. Furthermore, contrary to the idea that he abandoned you for “twu wuv,” if you had more information about his secret existence, you’d likely discover he’d either cheated before with other randos or had been trawling around hunting for willing participants for a long time. You might also discover that many of his targets weren’t game and think he’s a scary, icky freak. Plus the porn. There’s usually really disgusting, abusive porn involved in the buildup to cheating.

But, prior to that, your ex might have worn his fake “decency” mask quite convincingly. The thing about adult creeps is that they know that being a creep has bad optics so they often try to align themselves with decent people or woo decent partners (this doesn’t count for witting side pieces who, by definition, aren’t decent) in an attempt to give themselves that ethical aura. Some may even delude themselves that the decency might “rub off” because, deep down, every bully and two-faced creep is a miserable walking abortion and at times might genuinely hope to find a better way of existing. But, at some point, the masks and disguises they wear become suffocating and they long to “let their hair down” and be their true creepy selves so they seek out fellow creeps, form little bully gangs of two and start to trash that “decent” model they could never hope to achieve.

Personally I think the same creepiness vs. decency principle applies in every other arena of life, including business. Taking CL’s comment about climate change a step further, my uncle– for example– founded a green engineering firm that not only created sustainable energy and didn’t pollute inside or out but had a flat management structure where everyone was treated as an equal. It made employees very happy and loyal to the company which inspired off the charts creative innovation and the company produced more new patents than all competitors combined. The latter was exactly my uncle’s pragmatic aim in doing things the way he did: because, when working for other companies, he’d seen that top-down corporate structures, betrayal of employees and lack of general ethics tend to destroy innovation. Consequently, the company really had no competition and led the market for decades but, as my uncle explained, it wasn’t the superior products that enraged would-be competitors so much as the company’s business model and ethics because this created an embarrassing contrast to companies that polluted, dumped and treated workers like crap. Less ethical competitors desperately wanted to prove that the better model couldn’t possibly work in order to exonerate themselves for their lousy practices. Consequently, my uncle and partners had to create clever and sometimes humorous strategies to block the constant stupid corporate sabotage the company was subjected to.

My point is that the war between decency and indecency is an age old ideological standoff. Those without integrity desperately need to see those with integrity fail and be crushed and regret their own decency in order for the bullies to rationalize to themselves that being unethical and creepy is the only possible way to survive. They need to see the entire principle of decency fail. Likewise, sexually creepy people with damaged and empty souls desperately need to see those with sexual ethics and actual capacities for love and humanity fail, be crushed and regret their own decency.

I think that’s the crux you’re presently in. It’s actually an ideological issue and you’re certainly not alone in grappling with it. But try to bear in mind that, currently, you’re still limping around half blind and traumatized in the fog of war. You’re under the impression you were defeated which can make it harder to remember what you really believe in and value yourself for it. But, when the smoke clears, you might realize why the enemy undermined and sabotaged you to begin with, you’ll be glad not to be aligned with that icky “side,” you’ll take even greater pride in the ways you are incompatible with ickiness and, furthermore, you’ll see that you’re now in much better company.

That’s when you’ll realize you won.

Should Know Better
Should Know Better
6 months ago

I felt this one so much. I am in the group who never filed for divorce. I was deep in the pick-me dance when she ended things. I know it’s for the best. I hope I would have eventually had the fortitude to do it on my own. But in addition to all the painful feelings of being cheated on, the abandonment is another whole level. I wasn’t even good enough to be a source of kibble for her. She and Shmoopie fell apart before I even found out about her affair, so it’s not like she even left me for someone else. She just couldn’t stand to be married to me anymore.

Obviously a large fraction of my time with my therapist is devoted to finding my own self worth. But objectively I know I have many good qualities. I am a good father to two amazing kids. I have a decent-paying prestigious job, and I have won awards and am literally one of the world leaders in my little niche. I’m careful with money, only drink to accompany a good meal (and I’m a pretty decent cook), have never used drugs of any sort. I was in half-decent physical shape before I wrecked myself after Dday. I’m not the worst looking guy out there. Supposedly a great catch, right?

But here’s the problem. People are notoriously bad at self evaluation. That’s why performance reviews rely on peer feedback. I was with FW for 20 years, and we were best friends before that. She knows everything about me, knows me much better than I know myself. And her evaluation was: I can never be happy married to this man. I do not find him attractive, and there is nothing he or I could do to make me love him. (All of these are her exact statements.) Even if she’s not the person I married, she turned out to be dishonest and cruel and selfish and cowardly, she still knows me. And judged me not only not worth any effort, but someone she had to actively flee. How can anyone just put that aside and say her opinion shouldn’t matter?

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago

But she judged you from what perspective? I can assure you that human traffickers, snuff porn users and animal abusers would probably hate my guts if they got to know me and I’m honestly okay with it.

But personally I don’t think she really knew you enough to judge you any more than the former East German Republic really “knew” all the citizens it surveilled and terrorized. Like all abusive people, she collected “data” on you and studied your fears and vulnerabilities the better to control and manipulate you. I don’t call that genuinely “knowing” people.

Best Thing
Best Thing
6 months ago

“How can anyone just put that aside and say her opinion shouldn’t matter?”

I agree, it does matter, and anyone who knows you well enough to comment also has opinions that matter, even a FW. But here’s the thing: although we can get valuable information about ourselves from others, we can’t depend on that for our self worth. One of the first things I learned from my therapist was to ask myself “Is it true?” For example, during the devaluation phase my FW would tell me (he had a long list of complaints) “you’re a lousy cook and housekeeper”. So very true, I agree that’s who I am. And “You turned the kids against me.” Blatantly false, needs no analysis. Also “You’re so critical all of the time.” And it was true, I had many complaints about him, for very good reason. My therapist said “Who else in your life claims that you are a critical person?” And I said “I have this issue with no one else in my life.” Her point was to ask myself “Am I a critical person at heart, and I need to change/better myself? Or am I reacting reasonably to a specific situation with a specific person?” The point being that even with performance evaluation at work or feedback in social situations, we have to take in others’ opinions and question ourselves “Is it true? And in what manner is it true?” Your ex’s opinions were a “dishonest and cruel and selfish and cowardly” way to not work out problems in the marriage. You were “not worth any effort, but someone she had to actively flee”. Is it true? Or does she have problems? I’m getting into a quagmire here, but you seem to have an honest and reasonable evaluation of yourself, based on others’ opinions (you didn’t give yourself the awards, right?). Still, to be devalued and dismissed by someone you were so deeply bonded with is a horrible wound, and it does matter, absolutely, but it should not define who you are.

susie lee
susie lee
6 months ago
Reply to  Best Thing

Yep. The only thing my ex said to my face was I wasn’t a spit shiner. He didn’t use those words, but when he told me he was leaving, he kind of look around the house and said “this house”. First of all the house was in great shape (for a fixer upper). No disarray, laundry all done, kitchen and bathroom (very clean) I always made sure of that.

All you could find if you did the white glove test would be dust, and there was always a stack of books by my chair that I was working on. I definitely was not a duster (still not). That is all he said to my face, I have no idea what lies he told behind my back ,,or to the whore, but given how we lived our marriage, there was no way he could look me in the eye and say much of anything else.

And, it turns out per my daughter in law, the whore made me look like Martha Stewart.

He did tell a blatant lie to our preacher, and then immediately contradicted the statement. Because it was a bald face lie.

Before my now husband of 30 years and I got married, I told him if he was looking for a spit shiner maid, to keep looking. So when we got married I hired a house cleaner to come in every two weeks. I had a job, and school to tend to, had no interest in spit shining.

Best Thing
Best Thing
6 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

I am also not a spit shiner. Further, I learned over 35 years to not value a clean house because every time I cleaned FW would come home and left hurricane level damage. I gave up after some years. Additionally, shortly before D-Day he was constantly sniffling and blowing his nose. He blew up at me, saying “this place is so dusty I can’t breathe, what a lousy housewife…” So I felt bad and dusted everything, even disassembling the bed and dusting under and behind… HIs sniffling did not improve, and a couple of weeks after D-Day I told him he should go to a doctor as he probably had a sinus infection. He replied “Oh don’t worry about it, that’s a side effect from all the Viagra I’m taking.” Gaslighter extraordinaire. And I fell for it.

susie lee
susie lee
6 months ago
Reply to  Best Thing

My ex wasn’t a mess maker, but he did smoke, in the house. I cleaned his nasty ash trays and emptied the trash every night. Plus the jackass wouldn’t pay to get a termite inspector, until they had done significant damage. Then tried to stick me with that house in the D. No thanks.

I wiped that nasty nicotine off of windows and mirrors and the TV screen. I didn’t realize how much it smelled until I got away from it.

Best Thing
Best Thing
6 months ago
Reply to  Best Thing

PS – I meant “anyone who knows you well enough to comment in your everyday life” – I did not mean anyone who comments here on CL dot com

Ksurvivor
Ksurvivor
6 months ago

Dear Should Know Better,
Fuckwits don’t share our values and perceive/ measure the world with different standards. So yes for fucwits, perhaps you don’t have value. But for the Chumps tribe, you have tremendous value! Irrespective, don’t let others define your value- love yourself and accept yourself and then you will believe your value. Love to all the chumps out there as we all struggle with believing in ourselves and loving ourselves at various times.

Velvet Hammer
Velvet Hammer
6 months ago

Here’s a tool from my toolbox…

In addition to my IRL therpist, there are a number of therapists who post on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok who keep me shored up.

Dr Scott Eilers (for depression and anxiety), and Dawn Walton (trauma therapist) are my two favorites because they are both very good at delivering a simple, articulate explanation and cutting quickly to helpful actionable suggestions in their videos.

Dr Eilers posted a very helpful video on anxiety today, a huge part of the infidelity experience.

Again, the shame belongs to those who violate others, not the victims they violate.

❤️

Elsie_
Elsie_
6 months ago
Reply to  Velvet Hammer

“The shame belongs to those who violate others, not the victims they violate.”

In my religious circles, there were so many who truly thought that if I had been X, Y, and Z, my marriage would not have gone down the tubes. I realized post-divorce that belief is a bucket load of legalistic cr*p. You can do everything right and have a partner who drags you down a whirlpool in an attempt to drown you. And being proud of X, Y, and Z isn’t worth much because there is so much more to marriage than a set of rules — husband is the head of the home (check), Bible read every day (check), and wife is a SAHM (check). I had that, and it completely blew up because of his addiction, mental health issues, and wayward behavior, all things I had no control over.

So good to be out of that.

Leedy
Leedy
6 months ago

Katg, I feel for you. Being rejected is indeed horrible, and it takes a while to recover from it.

I only have one suggestion to add to what’s already been said: if by chance you think you may be struggling with depression, please see a doctor about it if you haven’t already. I say this just from my own experience. Even though my first husband and I divorced 27 years ago, I am still sometimes haunted by his cruel devaluation of me, all that time ago; and it can affect my self-esteem. BUT this was all much worse before I got treated for depression. Antidepressants really take the edge off of those pointless feelings of shame, for me.

Sending hugs.

Bluewren
Bluewren
6 months ago

Me too.

I never know what to tell people.

I was abandoned out of nowhere when I went to my home country to work temporarily.

He’s never actually said he wants to break up with me at any point- just stopped all communication almost 2 years ago to the day and replaced me immediately.
We are married and have been for over a decade and have known each other since we were teenagers – this ain’t no one night stand

He spun everyone a good victim story saying I told him when he came for a visit that I said I wasn’t coming back- lies.

At no time during court procedure etc did he ever say anything about breaking up or divorce- and still hasn’t.

It’s been one big twilight zone.

Orlando
Orlando
6 months ago

I would suggest positive affirmations every time your thinking gets negative about yourself: I’m divorced, yahoo!! I’m free from someone who didn’t value me!! I’m lovable & funny. I’m interested & interesting, etc etc. Just wake up and say nice & kind things about yourself in the mirror every morning. And every time you start to get down on yourself. You won’t turn into a narcissist, you will build your self-esteem, your self-worth. I started reframing my situation and would say affirmations every time I got down on myself or thinking about FW leaving for Schmoopie….and it takes time but if you consistently stay at it, it works. I totally see FW leaving as being the move of a weak-ass bitch rather than a reflection of myself.

KatG
KatG
6 months ago

WOW! Thank you for this amazing response and the the true to CL fashion kick in the ass, with somewhat soft boots! These are all things I have had said to me before, and you are right! I need to be the one to internalize and make this new reality something good and get out of the victimization mode. You had me at You are giving that Asshat too much power! I don’t think now that I ever knew the real him that he is showing now. OR I did and I refused to see it because I wanted to believe we were such a great team. His exit words of “I feel like we are friends and roommates. I don’t have a spark for you anymore, and I hope one day you will understand…” blah blah blah….. are so very telling now. After 28 years I would think being friends would be a strength in a marriage and not a detriment. What he wanted at the age of 50 was a fuckbuddy point blank. ( I believe he has a porn addiction based on some of the charges I found later on credit cards) No dear, I will not ever “understand” what you did to your wife! I pray to God that I never will understand that kind of blatant disrespect of someone you professed to love for so many years. I don’t want to be the kind of person who understands that at all, EVER! So thank you CL and the CNation, and my Runaway Husband besties for your support and for telling it like it is and helping me recognize…….or at least suggesting some tools to help me recognize I do determine my worth and damnit it I am WORTH it! I need him just like I need hemorrhoids!
Thanks to all of those who took a moment to comment and lend kind words and support not just to me but to others in the thread! YOU are all amazing people!

Last edited 6 months ago by KatG