‘I Hate the Other Woman’
She hates the Other Woman, a former friend who had a long-term affair with her now ex-husband. And she’s not sure she feels bad about loathing her.
***
Dear Chump Lady,
I’ll be honest: I hate her.
Not in a vague, passing way. Not in the way you say you hate someone who cuts you off in traffic. I mean a deep, sharp, bone-level hatred, the kind that only comes from betrayal.
She wasn’t a stranger. She was a friend. Her kids were best friends with mine. Our families took trips together. Holidays. Weekends. T-ball games. We were close or at least, I thought we were. So much so that I confided in her when I suspected my husband of 18 years was having an affair. Turns out, she was the one having an affair with him. For two years.
I tried to save the marriage. I gave it a full year. Even when I didn’t want to, I stayed. I tried therapy, patience, and grace. But when the affair didn’t end, I ended the marriage. I chose peace for myself and safety for my kids.
Throughout the year of “reconciliation” she would contact me.
Telling me he didn’t love me. That he was only staying for the kids. She played some kind of sick, self-righteous card as if she had the moral high ground in my story.
Her husband divorced her and they drove off into the sunset. And guess what…their relationship didn’t last. Shockingly
I have full custody of my kids now, and I live a good, honest life. One that’s rooted in love, not lies. But here’s the truth:
We live in the same town. Blocks away from each other.
I still see her, a lot. At school drop-offs, sports events, class parties, grocery store aisles.
And when I see her, I don’t smile, I don’t wave, I don’t speak.
I look through her.
Or sometimes directly at her. Cold. Unflinching. Silent. I don’t fake pleasantries, I don’t play nice. I protect my space. And yes — I hope it makes her uncomfortable.
Because she should be uncomfortable. Very uncomfortable
She should feel the weight of what she did. Not because I want to carry that anger forever but because I carried the fallout. I carried the therapy sessions with my children; I carried the lies, the loneliness, the humiliation, the conversations I never wanted to have with my kids. I lived in the wreckage she helped create.
And now? I live in the rebuild.
I’ve heard she tells her few remaining friends that I’m “mean.” That I “bully her” with my looks. That I’m “cold.”
She’s right.
I’m not going to apologize for that.
I’ve never once caused a scene. Never yelled. Never retaliated. But if a cold stare is the most she has to deal with after years of deception and disrespect she got off easy.
So here’s my question, and it’s not rhetorical:
- Is it wrong to hate someone who blew your life apart?
- Is it wrong to want them to squirm a little in the shadow of your strength?
- And is it really “mean,” or is it just the consequence of surviving betrayal with your dignity intact?
I don’t pretend to be healed from everything, I am far from it. But I’m no longer broken either. I’m just really angry, really proud, and really tired of being told I should take the high road when I was never the one who left it.
Is it wrong to silently punish someone just by refusing to pretend?
And carrying this anger — will it ever go away?
OW Hater
***
Dear OW Hater,
If you were looking for some toxic positivity, you’ve come to the wrong blog. I’m not going to shame you for your hate. Your strong feelings towards the Other Woman are entirely rational under the circumstances.
This woman terrorized you.
She pretended to be your friend, an intimate, someone you allowed into your closest circle of family life. Meanwhile, for two solid years she conspired in your abuse. She encouraged your investment, your vulnerability and later grief, and weaponized it. And for what? So she could feel superior? She weighed her stupid ego and furtive orgasms over your health and intact family. She shattered your trust and sense of safety for some sexy time with a fuckwit.
It’s bad enough when the Other Woman is a stranger. It’s magnitudes more pain when the affair partner is a friend.
Worse, this freak didn’t leave well enough alone. She couldn’t just cheat with your husband, she had to taunt you.
Telling me he didn’t love me. That he was only staying for the kids. She played some kind of sick, self-righteous card as if she had the moral high ground in my story.
Come sit on the big squishy chump sofa. All of us with Bunny Boilers will scootch over and make room. I’ll pass the chips. Mine liked to email me as “Samuel Clemens,” sign me up for political spam and dating sites. Good times.
They’re sadists.
Look, I know the accepted commentary on Schmoopies is that they’re fellow victims of the patriarchy. The Man has unhinged them and goaded them into these pick-me contests. Yes, there’s a gender overlay to this crazy. I never get these kinds of letters from straight male chumps. The Bunny Boiler trope is uniquely cisgender crazy. Because, wherever you have oppressive systems — you have conspirators. Other Women are Vichy France. Dick suckers of the patriarchy.
She’s behaving as if your cheating husband is a prize to be fought over by any means necessary. And her worth depends on “winning” him and destroying you. And if she can’t win him, it’s enough that she destroyed you.
Oh, this can also be where we interpret OW as feminist mavericks, behaving with the same sort of dick swaggering entitlement as men. She doesn’t conform to quaint notions of monogamy. She didn’t make a commitment to you. Buck up, chump. You can’t help it that she’s so fabulous.
Her husband divorced her and they drove off into the sunset. And guess what…their relationship didn’t last. Shockingly
I’m sure there’s another sucker in the school parking lot. Some other hypotenuse to her fucked up love rhombus. I’m glad you’re rid of both of them. Let’s answer your questions.
Is it wrong to hate someone who blew your life apart?
What’s the alternative? Shower them with roses? Thank them for being the catalyst to a better life? That might be true, that without their Shiva-the-Destroyer schtick, you wouldn’t know the joy of being liberated from a fuckwit. It doesn’t make what she did okay. YOU are the catalyst to your better life — that came from your strength and initiative.
Hate is a very elite group. It’s wrong to hate people for their race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation. It’s wrong to hate indiscriminately. But for the select few who seriously harmed you with malice and aforethought? Hate on.
It might fade, it might not. I encourage meh — or radical acceptance that it happened. It’s hard to go through life as an exposed nerve. The raw feelings eventually fade. But you, my friend, LIVE IN PROXIMITY. You cannot go total no contact, so this peace and granola project may take some time.
Is it wrong to want them to squirm a little in the shadow of your strength?
No. You haven’t done anything wrong by giving her the cold shoulder. I’m sorry the consequences of her behavior upset her. In what world are you supposed to care about her feelings? She clearly didn’t care about yours. She screwed your husband for years.
I’ve heard she tells her few remaining friends that I’m “mean.” That I “bully her” with my looks. That I’m “cold.”
DARVO much? Uh-huh, you’re the bully. Got it. Adjust that tinfoil, Schmoops, and your dental fillings will receive another message.
And is it really “mean,” or is it just the consequence of surviving betrayal with your dignity intact?
What’s mean is expecting women to befriend their abusers and never desire accountability. Assuming we must forgive all transgressions and never cause an ounce of social discomfort. THAT is mean.
You are just behaving congruently. You treat her like nothing, because she’s nothing. She wants to be central so badly. Keep looking through her. There’s nothing to see.
Agreed 100%: Justice. Reality based thinking. All good things for all of us. Rock on!
“Shiva-the-Destroyer schtick”
Okay, that was hilarious.
I don’t practice toxic positivity anymore, period. My ex chose to take his life choices to another state, but still…I don’t pretend that what he did wasn’t an utter conflagration. I don’t see a need to speak well of him. I don’t emotionally vomit on people anymore, but he became something very different than the man I married. We divorced, chapter closed.
During the divorce and closeout, I was polite and all-business. The marriage was over; let’s get this done. My kids were older, so no custody. After completing my part of the closeout, I never initiated contact again.
I was in a situation yesterday where I had to zip my mouth shut about some things. But these are not people that I allow close to me. I know them very well, and they are not budging in their beliefs. And that’s OK.
You don’t have to be friends with your ex or anyone close to them. In fact, you don’t have to be friends with anyone.
Same here. When he left for the whore, aside from two business calls; I never once called him, contacted him in any way. I think that surprised him. He likely assumed he would have to fend me off from emotional calls etc. He didn’t. It wasn’t that I didn’t hurt, I did; but it was my pride clawing it’s way through the rubble. I’ll be dammed if I would have given either him or the whore the satisfaction.
So true. Silence is powerful.
love the comment that you “live in the rebuild”. i’m taking it and using it. thanks, i really needed that today.
as for ignoring the OW, just carry on. you’re in close proximity and your kids are in the same stream of school + social activities + extra curriculars. plus you live a couple blocks apart.
as for the hate, try burning things in the backyard burn bin. it’s helpful to release a bit of the hate into the atmosphere. that’s what i do. myself, i sense a photo burning session coming on the fall. this june i finally landed in my forever home, and i have too much stuff and am still downsizing. there are too many photos of the X and they’re scheduled for the next burn.
Never underestimate the power of a good burning session- congratulations on your new home😊
I burned every photo of my ex. Felt great!
I wanted the visceral satisfaction of ripping them in half. That felt great, too!
Very relevant advice – treating the OW as you are doing is polite and fair not mean but she doesnt like fair. and the levels of misogynony in society glad you brought that up – my ex used to keep telling my kids she needs to get over it we can all be friends etc….having boundaries, treating a nothing person as nothing, not being friends with someone who is not your friend or much worse – its not bitterness or mean or whatever girl shaming thing they want to say its practicing self-respect
As I was reading this, I was thinking about Miss Manners. In the polite world, the dead cut, or snub, is the ultimate punishment for bad behavior. That is the appropriate response to someone who has behaved abominably.
The “cut direct,” she calls it. Great term.
I really hope the OP isn’t keeping up appearances by not telling people the truth about the OW and why the marriage ended. Don’t let the OW smear you OW must have secretly hated this Chump in order to betray her so heinously.
Fear and anger are important emotions that help our survival. I feel completely justified in hating my FW who was planning a fatal accident for me. Any rational creature would hate their would be murderer so I never took the so called high road! This toxic positivity BS is IMHO a very strange American or Western phenomenon.
Move away from the OW or switch schools if possible. I distanced myself and my kids from the frenemy who was attempting emotional affair with FW and later took his side post D day. Hurt like hell. A trauma therapist well informed in personality disorders and mean girl dynamics helped a lot also but those take effort to find.
The toxic positivity BS isn’t necessarily western since it’s sometimes borrowed from Eastern practices. But filmmaker Akira Kurosawa thought it was idiotic how Westerners adopted Zen when the practice was originally created for warriors indentured under feudal lords who had no choice over whether to fight or who they killed or whether they lived or died at any given moment. It’s about “finding peace” when you have zero control over reality and no freedom. On the darker side, it’s about snuffing conscience when you’re ordered to kill the innocent.
The latter bit has come up in recent research on meditation– the observation that some people use it to chant or ohm themselves into functional sociopathy the better to keep abusing and exploiting others and not feel bad about it. But even if this philosophy has some piecemeal positive applications, it’s pretty absurd to apply it whole hog to life in modern democracies where one can exercise free will to a greater extent. I think the same goes for the Hindu precepts that Yogazillas cling to. There might be some piecemeal value in certain ideas but anyone who’s ever read full translations of the Guru Gita, Bhagavad Gita, etc. would learn that they’re largely about accepting one’s place within a rigid caste system which still lingers on in India and include a ton of victim blaming.
For all their faults, at least most major world religions seem to put some value on the idea of promoting peace and nonviolence. But I’m even more circumspect when groovy bon mots are extracted from what are otherwise thoroughly heinous philosophies like the people who go around quoting bits and pieces of Plato’s Republic while ignoring the fact that Plato’s overall philosophy is the original model for totalitarianism and about preserving the illusion (Plato’s self-admitted “noble lie”) of superiority of the ruling glass and snuffing conscience over killing anyone who rattles the cage or compromises the glory of the state, including the disabled.
I wrote “ruling glass” lol. Freudian slip since the entitled have fragile egos?
Very interesting to learn Kurosawa’s take on Westerners and Zen. I worked in a bookstore in Boulder Colorado during the time Chogyam Trungpa (TIbetan Buddhist) was Rinpoche, and he cultivated a king-like status among his followers, who performed domestic as well as sexual services for him.
It seems like no organized religion is free of those scandals but, since this happens in any type of human institution or organization whether secular or non, I don’t blame religious faith for it but cult-like shifts which can either be religious or existential.
I remember there was (probably still is) this big trend of wealthy suburban wives ditching organized religion for Eastern practices and Indigenous shaman. But since many brought the same unquestioning worship of hierarchy, utopianism and conformity with which their forebears approached religion and which they thought they were escaping, they ended up the same cliquish, hypocritical, denialist church ladies as ever turning blind eyes to pervy gurus, monks and shamans.
Not that a lot of culty sects pay much attention to scripture they don’t like but Jesus actually warns about expecting angels among men or paradise on earth with “My kingdom is not of this world.” This is distinctly “anti-cult” and the Quran contains some of the same caveats. So my suspicion is that cultish shifts– where some designated leader or other starts pretending god-like qualities and promising paradise on earth, etc.,– always precedes sexual abuse scandals and the development of violent rhetoric.
As far as this happening in secular groups, the same thing went down among organized atheists. First came the promotion of so-called “Memetic Evolution” by Richard Dawkins and others (Peter Thiel, double ew) which is basically nothing more than debunked Lamarckian evolution– the idea that thoughts and beliefs and other acquired traits are somehow “heritable” and impact DNA. This, in turn, implied the self-appointed leaders of the new RaTiOnAliSts were inherently (genetically, objectively) transcendent and therefore above scrutiny because they believe the shit they believe as opposed to the inferior rabble who don’t. Naturally this came with promises of paradise on earth to followers (delivered by the group’s secret corporate sponsors like Big Ag, the genetic industry, etc., which will end all disease, suffering and death!). Of course this was followed by increasingly violent rhetoric (kill all Muslims for being Muslim… or for generally populating regions that have resources that industrial sponsors desire, put anyone questioning Monsanto “science” in jail, etc.) and then– like clockwork– the big sprawling rape scandal erupted.
Wherever you go, there you are. Earnest Becker describes the same thing happening in tribal societies. Some shaman decides they want all the best everything, absolute obedience and (most of all according to Becker) to screw all the young virgins. So they would begin to feign extraordinary powers and make extraordinary prophesies which they’d secretly engineer to fulfill (“historicism”).
I always learn so much from your posts HOAC. No wonder I said to one of therapists no I can’t just be ‘zen’ about it all when she told me that’s the goal I should be aiming towards
Akira Kurosawa blesses you from cinema heaven. 😉
Agreed on both points, Archer. HoaC’s posts have been not only interesting and educational, but there have been bits that have helped me SO MUCH personally.
As for Zen? There is a tendency for those not in Chumpville to tell Chumps to be Zen, or get over it, or whatever platitude is popular that day.
In the meantime I think a lot of us ARE being pretty damn Zen. I practiced “if it feels good, don’t do it” like it was my job. Sure, to my closest friends, who were in my tiny and closed circle of trust, or here, in CN where I am anonymous and among friends, I spewed my honest feelings which were often not the prettiest. But in my daily life, I wasn’t lashing out or doing anything destructive to the FW. I did my best to maintain limited contact and grey rocked my heart out. But I, and most here, have been dealt a huge blow, we can’t pretend it doesn’t upset us. And no one should be asking us to. That is ludicrous.
Thank you. I’m glad if anything I ramble on about is of use to anyone. 🙂
I think some of the best and most pragmatic bits of Zen philosophy show up in the practice of martial arts under responsible senseis who teach students how to avoid violence.
My two favorite Chump Nation koans:
Forgiveness is letting go of the hope of a better past.
Closure is knowing that you deserved better.
I had a great therapist and we created a “Dead To Me” list of people who don’t deserve my time or energy.It was for the cheater and the friends he lied to and his toxic family of enablers. It was a great way for me to create boundaries. Dead to me means if I see them at the store or wherever, they do not exist. I look right through them. They helped to destroy my world and don’t deserve a second of compassion or a wave or a hello. If they changed their behavior, I would revisit my course of action, but what it did was reveal exactly how vile they all are. DEAD TO ME. And no contact of course. Be strong. Some people deserve our hatred.
“Some people deserve our hatred.”
So true. But also, define hatred. Because the OP is not doing anything all that wild. She is ..let me check….ignoring them? Looking through them? Not saying hello to them? That seems pretty mellow to me.
If everytime she saw them at a school event or grocery store, she started screaming her head off at them and throwing whatever text books or reduced for quick sale produce were on hand, well, I’d understand her reasoning but would discourage that behavior. But she is treating this woman no worse than most strangers she runs into at the store.
The OW says she is “cold”? And the opposite of cold is warm, so should she be warmly walking up to this ex-friend that betrayed her and what, offering hugs? Smiles? Enthuisiastic pleasant greetings? THAT would be crazy.
All she is doing is ignoring them. Which is a lot more than they deserve after what they did.
It’s funny, those of us who take Mr CL’s advice of “if it feels good, don’t do it” aren’t doing it to spare the OW/OM?Exes a pelting with rotten fruit. We’ve been given this free legal advice to protect ourselves from possible regret, and to keep our side of the street nice and clean mostly for possible future court appearances. No one here thinks the OW/OM/Exes deserve to be spared “cold stares” in the supermarket.
I don’t really know what your point is. I don’t have to define anything. I am perfectly OK saying what I said. Some people deserve to be hated for the damage they caused. I said nothing about revenge or doing anything that might not only be illegal, but brings one down to their toxic level. To me, and for my mental health, they simply no longer exist.
Sorry, I was not clear. I fully AGREE with YOU.
When I said “define hatred”, I didn’t mean you had to defend your stance.
I just think that essentially the OP is letting that woman off easy. She’s simply ignoring her. It could be so much worse and I personally think the AP would deserve every bit of it if it was worse.
So to me, here’s the OP looking for validation that it is “ok” to hate the AP, and in my mind, her behaviour towards that woman isn’t nearly as hateful as it could be. And I agree that revenge just brings us down to their level, so I avoid it. But if the OP had performed some vengeful act, I don’t think many of us would blame her. That’s all.
Speaking of revenge, this is probably my favorite scene from Marvelous Mrs. Maisel aside from the D-day standup meltdown:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JflsDtY-NCs
If you put aside some of the contradictory messages on cheating in the series and the cOnSciOuS uNcoUpliNg nonsense, this is still a great line: “I know…Sh*t happens. You should be the bigger man and let it go. But I’m a woman so f*ck that. I want my pound of flesh.” 😀
Revenge might not be prudent but a recent study reported that, when warranted and within reason and when there are no negative consequences to the vengeance-seeker, a little bit of payback seems to be good for people’s well-being.
I’m completely nonviolent and have never enacted serious or gratuitous revenge in my life (taking the job of the boss who tried to roofie me was all about the greater good). All the same, I like to lace something funny into traumatic encounters that, when the dust settles, I’ll laugh about for years. Like stealthily replacing FW’s sildenafil citrate caps (for his porn- and booze-induced ED) with magnesium citrate right after D-day.
I know that doesn’t quite reach Man in the Iron Mask levels of epic vengeance. But I’m grinning even as I write this lol. It beats crying and will probably boost my lifespan and general cardiometabolic health. 😉
Thank you for clarifying. I’m sensitive to people who seem to want to in some way equalize or excuse bad behavior and tell me to be the bigger person or “be friends with your ex”, like cheating and abandoning me and never making amends after 30 years of marriage wasn’t enough of a reason to want them to no longer exist. Or the ones who say I’m bitter when I’m NOT bitter; I simply created very strong boundaries to protect myself because I had to, not because I want to. I wanted to be happily married and enjoy grandchildren and travel and have my life partner and explore life together. I didn’t ask to be manipulated and deceived, none of us on CL did.
Taking note and scribbling my Dead to Me list 😆
She was awesome. Retired now but encouraged me all during the 3.5 year divorce. She said he was a narcissistic, psychopathic bully. Thank goodness for her.
LOVE THIS
It really helped. Still does.
(1) Betrayal is bad. Double/triple betrayal is worse. Double is with a “friend.” Triple is if “friend” is your relative, colleague, therapist, co-religionist, etc. Hooboy, does this split churches! Speaking of which:
(2) Cheating is never “just between us.” It is an avalanche, an earthquake, a sinkhole. It swamps kids, the neighborhood, the extended family, volunteer groups, houses of worship, workplaces, public spaces.
LOL My mother stayed in touch with my FW for way longer than I would have liked. (We did not have kids.) She didn’t realize how delulu he was until he wanted to be invited to Sunday dinner at her house, with his Smoopie, and me, so we could be one big happy family.
Yes! Everything you said here. I have long felt triply betrayed. My husband and friend had an affair, then my church – where we all attended – went crickets (and have re-embraced my ex-friend). It’s been hell.
http://www.chumplady.com/spiritual-abuse-infidelity-and-divorce
I’m so sorry this happened to you, how awful.
That’s more like a quadruple betrayal. It happens a lot. Forgive and forget, let’s all be friends. IMHO (in my humble opinion) that is unsound theology.
This reminds me of a socio-political essay I read recently, link below – although it is quite long. NI;DR (not interested, didn’t read): the writer’s idea is that some people value order over justice, and will take the “forgive and forget” attitude in order to preserve what they feel is the right order of things over the past trauma and future safety of the victim. I think this brilliantly explains the existence of “Switzerland friends” and Switzerland churches. I will never understand religious groups who, when a member goes against their own teachings, will forgive the sinner (admittedly also a religious teaching), but will hold the victim to that same forgiveness standard without a backward glance to the trauma or a nod to protection. Non-religious do this as well to be sure but it’s galling to see it from a religious body.
https://www.the-reframe.com/change-the-locks/
People who are shallow and selfish don’t like anything that makes them uncomfortable or have to think too hard or change their behavior.
In my unscientific and anecdotal experience, the Switzerland couple friends actually turned out to have a cheater husband in the mix. Another one bit the dust just this week when the wife surprised me with her own DDay story.
IMHO I think that drives a lot of the distancing also. No cheating spouse wants to hang out with a Chump. They might get exposed
I know my faith tradition discourages hating, but if there is ever a reason to hate, a person feigning benevolence towards you and your family yet actually sowing seeds of destruction and selfishness and betrayal – -those are seriously valid reasons to hate someone.
My Cheaters AP was 3000 miles away and I hated even hearing someone referencing her city…I can not even fathom having our kids at the same school.
And it’s true: dealing with the target of your destruction simply hating you is small comeuppance and should be expected. Marital betrayal is something not everyone survives.
Ive said it before, I’ll say it again. Where Cheater was concerned, I was a wonderful wife, but I would have been a terrible XW.
Me too! 3000 miles away. Whenever someone mentions that city, it triggers. Whatever word you use, the only action that worked for me was complete no contact but only cos we don’t have minor children. My son will have NOTHING to do with him and the grands will never know him, either. It’s his loss IMO.
you said: “My Cheaters AP was 3000 miles away and I hated even hearing someone referencing her city…I can not even fathom having our kids at the same school.”
Absolutely agree! I frequently am so grateful that AP lives 2500 miles away. She is not here for me to run into. I think the OP here is strong as hell for keeping her cool around that woman.
“Marital betrayal is something not everyone survives.”
I am not sure what you meant by this, but something I think about a lot are the chumps that are murdered to make way for schmoops. And while I wouldn’t say the AP’s are to blame for said murders exactly, but I do think about this situation when people want to say “Oh the AP didn’t owe you anythig. They didn’t take vows with you” etc. All that may be true, but enough chumps and even their kids have been murdered because a FW wanted to be with their AP with no messy strings attached that I think willingly becoming a side piece means you don’t care if this happens.
The reason I think about that outcome a lot is because I was truly frightened that *I* could join that rank at one point.
Of course you hate the OW. I hate her just reading about what she did to you.
I predict spectacular unhappiness for her in the long run, because living in a small town provides no hiding spot for the betrayers of the world. The “friends” she has left? My guess is that they are keeping her close in the Machiavellian sense of keeping your enemies closer as the safer choice, and to keep tabs on her in proximity to their own husbands.Because it sounds like everyone knows who she is at her core, a toxic traitor who betrayed her best friend.
I love it that she accuses you of being mean and a bully. I’m quite sure that everyone who hears her weak whining instantly ponders the idiocacy of her position. You could hardly ask for a better demonstration of her hypocrisy than that and the more she whines, the more delusional she looks. And the more quality people on your side.
I’m sure that God loves her. Everyone else thinks that she is an asshole.
Agreed, I hate this woman and I don’t even know her! The letter-writer is being very reasonable. I would have done a lot worse.
I didn’t write this letter, but I could have. The OW was a friend. The affair went on for two years. We live in the same town where I occasionally cross paths with her. Other fun facts – she/my ex are now “in a relationship”, our kids are still friends, we went to church together, her parents live down the street from me, I lost all our mutual friends…
I tried to reconcile with my ex for almost three years. I never had to deal with OW taunting me, but I did have someone tell me that OW was “confused” during my attempted reconciliation bc she thought my now-ex was “loyal” to her. >insert eyeroll here<
OW Hater, I really like this line: “…tired of being told I should take the high road when I was never the one who left it.” YES!!! This, exactly.
I met a woman who confessed she was divorced because she had a 10 yr affair with the kids soccer coach. It broke up their marriage too. How could I be friends with her? I can’t, even more so because I was the chump in my situation, the betrayed one.
You are living in a toxic soup and I hope you are able to get far away from it soon. It cannot be healthy for you. WTF all your mutual friends sided with the FW and OW?
Many of the female mutual friends re-embraced the OW; she has deep roots in our town. Some of the male mutual friends re-embraced my ex. One particular couple stayed closed to the other (betrayed) husband. I don’t know why they all bailed on me. Compassion fatigue? Too painful to see the grief etched all over my face? I’ve heard a few of them say “I love everyone involved” and “I refuse to take sides”.
I wish I could get away, but I cannot afford to move elsewhere. I live in a town with a very low cost of living and I was a stay-at-home parent for 15 years. My earning powers aren’t great at the moment.
If they truly love you, they’d never put up with seeing that asshole treat you so horribly.
Cowards the lot of them.
What this woman did was and is UNCONSCIONABLE and a total betrayal. Not the same thing but I have neighbors and a couple who were both neighbors and friends who behaved so badly toward me that I simply do not acknowlege their existence. Right on. Somewhat related, I ran into my fw about 15 months post d day and as he smiled and waved I looked both ways so I would not get hit by a car and ran to my car like i was being chased by a predator. It was a visceral response to his subhuman status. An act of total integrity. Listen to your body and heart.
In my lived experience as a chump, anger is a good thing. It’s proof that you weren’t burned beyond recognition by the betrayal process and that your soul is very, very alive.
I do not blame you for a minute for what you feel.
You were double betrayed-by your husband and your “friend” that was actively trying to interfere. That’s a whole lot of data points for “reasons humanity sucks” rolled right into one. I’d be a lot more concerned if you WEREN’T still a little pissed off.
This individual was not only a participant but a willing participant in your abuse. She was actively complicit in your betrayal. And she continues to target you for your apparent crime of “exists”(as well as “not your ex’s only victim, centrality-be-damned). I love that narrative-that she was telling you that your husband doesn’t love you and now that it’s blown up in her face you are now bullying her in the supermarket. Like, what the hell? You’d think as that dynamic has blown up that she’d have more sympathy. That there’d be an apology.
Trying not to be “that guy”-but gee, I wonder why her marriage blew up.
I am also hearing that you are doing overall the right thing-a lot of grey rock. I’d probably glare, too. It’s free and you don’t cop the same charges as slashing 3 of her tires (if you know, you know.) She should live with her discomfort. Personally though? Let her continue to be her. Far worse punishment. Sounds like she’s already fucked up a couple of big relationships. Just being her does not pay dividends.
I simply do not understand people some days. I have no idea what it is like to be so emotionally bankrupt that I would feel the need to end someone else’s marriage AND still be pissy at their ex when it didn’t work out. I dunno-I have a life and hobbies and things.
My fuckwit’s schmoopie TRIED to be my friend. I saw what was happening and headed that shit off at the pass. I figured that he was going to try the same approximate BS that your former friend pulled. He was aware of my existence; he knew what he was doing. I have been made aware that without me there to take care of her and absorb her day-to-day bullshit that their relationship failed rather spectacularly. All teh same, I still cannot say I would be nearly civil enough to merely glare at him while grocery shopping if I ever encountered him in the wild.
There are some things you simply do not do to another person.
Have A Mighty Monday!
Another Cheater who betrayed a friend, cheated, got consequences (which they hated because things didn’t work out like they thought the would) and the whined like an entitled POS.
OW Hater owes this woman nothing, so that it what OW gets …. just keep ignoring the ever-loving sh*t out of the,
LFTT
A double betrayal is a horrible thing- what do people think you’ll do- give her a big kiss and let her continue to stomp on your heart to save everyone’s feelings?
Fuck that.
When your most trusted women turn out to be the biggest dick suckers of the patriarchy, it’s a whole new level of betrayal and pain.
We weren’t friends but I’d had dealings with her in the past- she was part of a committee who tried to illegally sack my boss and I so I took them to employment court and won- I went into deep shock when this loser showed up yet again to have a hand in detonating my life.
My friend who swore she loved me always sided with him – because she knew him before she knew me you see- knew he’d tried to strangle his first wife and calmly watched my house burn down without seeing fit to tell me .
I suspect something affair like may have gone on with them but no proof.
She cheerily sent me a happy birthday message the other week like nothing happened.
I’m not sure what’s wrong with her, but she’s fired from my life.
Back-stabbers deserve the hate! Don’t feel bad about it. But if anyone tells you how OW feels again DEFEND yourself “yeah, I tend to hate women who boink their friend’s husbands”. You don’t have to go into detail. Let those other women sit on what you said.
Yes please don’t whitewash your divorce
I hate her for you
Single white female. Friends who turn into OW are unhappy in their lives. They see your life from the outside and want it. They resent you and your accomplishments. They think you don’t deserve your life. Oh she went to Medical school, law school ect, how hard can it be? I could’ve done it. Yeah maybe…….but you didn’t. She climbed Mt Everest? Designed a space ship? Invented warp speed drive? Was voted youngest member of congress? I could’ve done it. Yeah, but you didn’t. It goes alot deeper than just screwing your husband. It’s a big F@@@ you! Her bad mouthing you still, saying you are bullying her is again a continuum of her saying F@@@ you. She has it in for you. You are her nemesis. She needs that to give her life meaning, because she is sick in the head.
Yes to this. A good trauma therapist pointed out the unhappiness and insecurity of my frenemy who was attempting a quasi emotional affair with FW (he was too busy with escorts and didn’t fancy overweight middle aged moms) and who later switched sides post D day. I learned later she backstabbed several other women too and always when their chips were down and feeling vulnerable.
Don’t underestimate the jealousy, misery and insecurity of another woman. I learned that the hard way!
My son gave me the best unsolicited divorce advice in between the two weeks when my mother died and my final divorce settlement conference.
He looked me in the eye and in a stern voice said:
“This is what you do. You never speak to her. You never acknowledge her. She’s beneath you. Treat her like she’s dead.”
The tone of his voice snapped me out of my stupor and I’ve followed his advice since. I’ve only had one interaction with her since affair discovery in 2017 up and through now, and they got married in 2019, so my poor son has to navigate his relationship with his father.
The Other Woman was a HoWorker, so my kids knew her for years. The advice here is spot on. Don’t worry what she thinks of you. Her opinion is beneath you.
That son of yours is mighty. Your ex is crap but you won the son lottery.
Awesome child. And great advice.
It’s been high level grey rock 38 years with #1 OW/ wifestress. She is not my friend and if my children like her, which they do…more power to her. She had my husband while I was pregnant and had no pity. Nothing lost there. I saw #2 OW wifestress x1 from far far away and in the photo my sis sent from.FB. again not my friend or friend material. They are the zoo keepers now…not my circus anymore.
My ex and his new partner live not that far from me, and I occasionally encounter them, although I am vigilant in parking lots and stores, and have aborted several grocery trips when I have spotted either of their cars in the parking lot (I scan the lot before I park).
I am happier now that I was for a very long time in my marriage, even before I knew about his secret sexual basement and his screwed up relationship with the ex-student, and I don’t want him back and wouldn’t return to that marriage, but at the same time I am still angry at him for upending the life I built and the retirement that I had planned for.
One of the ways I cope is to act as if “dead to me” means “dead, actually,” which helps keep intrusive thoughts away, and the one time I couldn’t avoid passing by him (I exited a store as he was just about to enter) I simply looked at him as if I were looking through him. Worked for me, and if it unsettled him, so much the better.
I avoid as well. Except there was one time right before Christmas a few years ago when I was driving to work and Asshat and the now married HoWorker were coming out of their gym (which was connected to where I worked). They were literally right in front me in the parking lot. I just ignored and drove by, and I didn’t even have the urge to run them over. What was funny is that Asshat was walking WAY in front of HoWorker, looking like shit and pissed as hell. My non-reaction must have annoyed him because two days later, a postcard arrived in the mail for my son (living with me). Such an obvious hoover. It just spoke volumes to me that he’s not happy.
This mind trick of pretending the FW is actually dead has worked for me, too, especially when I struggle with intrusive thoughts.
Thankfully, those thoughts intrude less frequently these days. Still, in certain moods, I find myself “resurrecting” him—almost as though I need to hold him up to the light again, just to remember what he truly was: a small, pitiful man who chose to abuse me and who was never worthy of my love or trust.
These FWs have lost the right to any grocery-story pleasantries. Looking through him sounds like a good strategy.
“Senior Chump” here (age 70+) with my 2 cents….these pieces of trash are not worth your precious time and energy. When I first began to learn of my exFW’s countless betrayals all over North America, with countless people, I felt so angry at these horrid people. Why would they want to do this? As l began to learn of just how many there were, and of how incredibly low-life they were, I slowly started to see things differently. These were not folks worth thinking about. These were not succesful and smart or pretty and accomplished people. They were drunks, criminals, diseased(as in STDs), sex-workers, pathetic bottom-feeders. Granted, I did not learn about all of them, but after the first 25 or 30, I saw enough. (As a good friend said..hey, show some grace. No one looks good at 2am, coming off a hard drunk, in an orange jumpsuit.) Those mug shots (I mean, “bookng photos”) are so unflattering. There was a rode-hard-and-put-up- wet, worn out diseased hooker on a boat, a troll with a bad wig, a couple of young gals with open marriages and HPV, and on and on. All with miserable lives as a result of their drinking, drugging, promiscuity, stupidity, lives of crime, unethical behavior, poor work habits, you name it. I couldn’t be bothered hating these worthless, useless people. I had things to do, places to go, people to see. I found them to be just garbage that needed to be tossed aside, so they did not take up valuable real estate in my life. Now, I find them almost laughable. Please, do not give any betrayal object any more energy and time than you absolutley must to conduct your life. I have no young kids, so no school – related drama or any of that. That is challenging. I agree with CL. Put your time and energy into worthwhile people, places and activities. These people will self-destruct. No need to be a bystander. If they are not comfortable when they see you, well, not your problem. Choices have consequences. They made unwise, embarrassing and unhealthy choices. Natural consequences. And to second the writers who mentioned it: I have no photos or souvenirs related to the ex FW of many decades. Destroyed and got rid of every last item. Decluttering!!
My 2 favorite quotes:
Forgiveness is not a substitute for boundaries, nor should it restore unsafe or unhealthy connections. Neither does Forgiveness eliminate consequences.
OW consequence- not a friend by any stretch of the imagination.
Anyone who encourages you to meet abuse with greater vulnerability is a quack.”